Peter, a wise choice to invite Paul to join you. If Day 1 is any indication of what is to follow, this is certain to be a series of honest, substantive, informative, and rewarding discussions. As someone who has known Paul for decades, I feel qualified to affirm that when it comes to prizing intellectual honesty, and championing the virtues of integrity, humility, and fidelity; someone who is genuinely committed to being faithful, kind, loving, and nonjudgmental ... Paul Toscano is a surrogate for the 13th Article of Faith.
Love the brain food. It gives you a headache as you stretch your mind into the universe as one examines theology. I am on board and look forward. Britvengers forever.
Paul and Peter, this should be interesting. I can listen to Peter for hours... Paul's theology anf logic enrages me. Let's see what happens when they combine forces.
I'm old school mormon. I'm 63 years old. I was always taught that because God is both just and loving, Jesus had to die to fulfill justice. I was also always taught that the Holy Ghost would get a body before the second coming. This makes sense to me. Thoughts?
This is how some Church members have tried to make it all make sense, but considering recent disclaimers by apostles I don't think any of them would commit to these doctrines we used to throw around so confidently decades ago now. And this is one of the major points we are making in these discussions The leaders don't understand doctrine and refuse to develop it any further, so we are all left floundering around with lots of different ways to Mormon within the church based on who said what to us years ago. For example, if the Holy Spirit cannot influence or communicate with us while having a physical body, how on earth are we going to connect with Jesus and God the father and God the mother and whoever else if we don't happen to be in the same room with them in the millennium? Is it going to be through the seer stones Joseph Smith said we will all be given? It's hard to follow any of these trains of thought without getting very quickly into the weird and the somewhat ludicrous. If the Holy Spirit is to have a body at the beginning of the Millennium does that mean he's going to be born as a baby to somebody and be raised like a human? If Jesus is the only perfect person that ever lived on our earth or we live on it, does that mean the Holy Spirit is going to be a very naughty boy sometimes? Will we watch his mum and dad shouting out of their window "Stop throwing rocks at your baby Sister, Holy Ghost!" Would they be allowed to smack Holy Ghost's bottom if he's a very very naughty boy? It kind of doesn't work really does it. But then it raises all kinds of questions about the coronation of Jesus as a little boy. And then you start to feel a bit embarrassed that you took any of this fairytale stuff seriously as the ultimate truth of the universe and its creator. So those are my thoughts about these sorts of things at the moment. Faith deconstruction is wild! What kind of justice demands that an innocent person has to suffer all that they has to be suffering in order to be forgiven for something? Can't God just be forgiving and merciful without torturing anybody? This is a strong critique of Christianity in the Quran. It gets exasperated at the silly Christians and their idea that just and merciful God can't just decide to be forgiving and merciful without the rigmarole of human sacrifice, since those qualities are already fundamental to his nature. I think there is something very powerful about God humbling himself to be with us that Islam misses, but Paul's position is you can have that happen without having to have penal substitution and torturing one of the children with unspeakable agony in order to be able to be merciful to the rest.
What a pleasant surprise. Peter is one of my favorites!
Why thankyou! Happy Christmas!
I agree.
I must admit, I was waiting for someone named Mary to join. Yes, I grew up in the days of Peter, Paul, and Mary. 😎
Mary is here, but incognito as the Holy Spirit! 😉
This is a great idea. Love to hear from both of you. I listen to both of your podcasts. Thanks to both of you.
Peter, a wise choice to invite Paul to join you. If Day 1 is any indication of what is to follow, this is certain to be a series of honest, substantive, informative, and rewarding discussions.
As someone who has known Paul for decades, I feel qualified to affirm that when it comes to prizing intellectual honesty, and championing the virtues of integrity, humility, and fidelity; someone who is genuinely committed to being faithful, kind, loving, and nonjudgmental ... Paul Toscano is a surrogate for the 13th Article of Faith.
Woohoo! I’m excited for this 😊
This was great, Peter! I look forward to the remaining episodes and hearing Paul's ideas!
Yes, yes yes! Can't wait to continue to hear from paul
Love the brain food. It gives you a headache as you stretch your mind into the universe as one examines theology. I am on board and look forward. Britvengers forever.
Thank you Peter. Ÿou r kind. Hi Paul. Ty both 4 this🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Paul and Peter, this should be interesting. I can listen to Peter for hours... Paul's theology anf logic enrages me. Let's see what happens when they combine forces.
Great discussion. I'm looking forward to more brain food and stimulation of thought.
Genuinely am praying and feel bad for the Mormons.
I'm old school mormon. I'm 63 years old. I was always taught that because God is both just and loving, Jesus had to die to fulfill justice. I was also always taught that the Holy Ghost would get a body before the second coming. This makes sense to me. Thoughts?
This is how some Church members have tried to make it all make sense, but considering recent disclaimers by apostles I don't think any of them would commit to these doctrines we used to throw around so confidently decades ago now. And this is one of the major points we are making in these discussions The leaders don't understand doctrine and refuse to develop it any further, so we are all left floundering around with lots of different ways to Mormon within the church based on who said what to us years ago.
For example, if the Holy Spirit cannot influence or communicate with us while having a physical body, how on earth are we going to connect with Jesus and God the father and God the mother and whoever else if we don't happen to be in the same room with them in the millennium? Is it going to be through the seer stones Joseph Smith said we will all be given?
It's hard to follow any of these trains of thought without getting very quickly into the weird and the somewhat ludicrous.
If the Holy Spirit is to have a body at the beginning of the Millennium does that mean he's going to be born as a baby to somebody and be raised like a human? If Jesus is the only perfect person that ever lived on our earth or we live on it, does that mean the Holy Spirit is going to be a very naughty boy sometimes? Will we watch his mum and dad shouting out of their window "Stop throwing rocks at your baby Sister, Holy Ghost!" Would they be allowed to smack Holy Ghost's bottom if he's a very very naughty boy? It kind of doesn't work really does it. But then it raises all kinds of questions about the coronation of Jesus as a little boy.
And then you start to feel a bit embarrassed that you took any of this fairytale stuff seriously as the ultimate truth of the universe and its creator.
So those are my thoughts about these sorts of things at the moment. Faith deconstruction is wild!
What kind of justice demands that an innocent person has to suffer all that they has to be suffering in order to be forgiven for something? Can't God just be forgiving and merciful without torturing anybody? This is a strong critique of Christianity in the Quran. It gets exasperated at the silly Christians and their idea that just and merciful God can't just decide to be forgiving and merciful without the rigmarole of human sacrifice, since those qualities are already fundamental to his nature. I think there is something very powerful about God humbling himself to be with us that Islam misses, but Paul's position is you can have that happen without having to have penal substitution and torturing one of the children with unspeakable agony in order to be able to be merciful to the rest.