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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ย. 2024
- Garuda das is a disciple of Srila Prabhupada, Author, and University Professor. We sit down with him to discuss his journey in Krishna Consciousness, as well as how to reconcile controversial statements in Srila Prabhupada's books. If time allows, we will also discuss the editing of Srila Prabhupada's books!
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This is definitely one of the best episodes on your channel so far- it answered many of my personal questions. I think your channel is so important Namarasa, these discussions need to be had, and I'm so happy you chose to discuss these points with Garuda Prabhu, he did a great job explaining his points.
A VERY timely discussion!
And a very BIG thank you for doing it and even daring to take on this issue!
It is something that we HAVE to talk about considering the wider society that we operate in.
And the fact that these issues ARE GOING to be raised by the outsiders who want to criticise and discredit our movement and by the devotees struggling to understand them.
Dandavat pranamas Namarasaji.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada,
Greetings to you, your family and friends.
I also pray that SP bestows uttama/prema/Krsna bhakti on you all
and in fact on all jivas struggling in maya.
Isn't this the ideal solution for all who are drowning in the material consciousness?
Your aspiring servant,
Krsna-dasa, BCS
Garuda cracks me up 😆 and I love his wisdom!
Thank you Namras Prabhuji . This gives so much clarity. Thank you doing this wonderful service .
Namarasa Prabhu this is a wonderful discussion . I will listen to it again. But also would love to hear about book changes in the next interview with Garuda Prabhu. Speaking to his point that Bhakti yoga is about dialogue and discussion... that is the Bhagavad Gita in essence a discussion between Krishna and His disciple Arjuna, your podcast is furthering that tradition and performing a wonderful service for the vaisnava community.
HG Garuda Das is one of the most intelligent voices in the movement
One more great interview, thank you
Loking forward for second part 😊
Haribol Namarasa Prabhu
Thank you for the podcasts you are doing. I now watched about 7 of them. I like it to get to know the variety of devotees and their opinions and points of view.
But what I honestly miss is the real siddhanta how to aquire knowledge, which is through a living parampara. We have come to the point to speculate soooo much instead of approaching a living acarya (pure devotee) to clarify our doubts. That is the main problem in our Vaishnava communities.
Hare Krishna
হরে কৃষ্ণ, hare krishna... 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏 Love from Bangladesh.
Thank you for making this video and trying to be honest as possible.
I did sense however there was a degree of hesitancy in specifically talking about the views and comments of Prabhupada and also some denial? As much I appreciate lovely Garuda giving us his thoughts on this he did say himself he does not like any criticism of Prabhupada so I think there is most likely some conscious or unconscious bias there. I remember a few years back when I was trying to become a devotee I came across all this stuff and when I approached people about it the same response was to try anyway to justify it.
"It's taken out of context" or "he did not mean it like that," I think this has also happened slightly in this video.
The problem lies when we claim someone to be a pure devotee who is completely infallible and everything that person says is golden. This can be dangerous as that person's views and statements can be taken literally and create further abuse in cults such as Iskcon.
Regardless of any context, we think it is mentioned in or find any way to justify it for me his statements are pretty much black and white. We are talking about an old Indian man who never left India until the age of 70.
Did he have views that were racist, misogynist, castist, and homophobic? Yes, he did, unfortunately.
Is he someone that I would like to follow? No, he is not.
I no longer read Iskcon books because his views are there in his literature and it just turned me away from Iskcon amongst many other things.
I don't think Prabhupada was a bad person I just think he said really offensive things and had secret views that were discriminative. I find him a bit contradictive and feel like he would say different things depending on who was listening around him at the time. I'm not sure if that it is considered to be trustworthy to me?
Anyway, as well as the bad there are many great things about Iskcon in general. However, I am glad I did not get too deep into it.
You really are deep down a hypocrite , Prabhupada said a few throwaway things that we all know are true , but if that s all you want to focus on , then its best you go and have not your 'cartoon equality land ' not offended !
It's pretty simple. People today are trying to judge someone from colonial India 100 years ago with today's standards....today's woke American standards. It's pretty easy to take the things you find good in something and just leave what you don't like alone. I love Prahbupads books but I don't have to support or except anything I don't want to. It's pretty much like this just don't follow anyone blindly
I really appreciated his video on book changes. But I disagree with several points of his explanations on this one video. Unfortunately the scholarly material realm tends to be very dry, so it is hard to get rid of that. He says that "there a time to trust the instruments and there's a time to trust the Bhagavatam" 1:32:30 That is very much on a neophyte platform of understanding. In any circumstance as difficult and dangerous that it may be, taking shelter of the Holy Name is and will be forever infallible. There is no scope for trusting a machine, 100% trust in Krsna, machine may help, but never put our trust in that. Rather, ride an airplane and chant Hare Krishna throughout, always trust Krsna.
"If a man is famous as a righteous man, that makes him glorious. Sanskrit is a perfect language and is therefore very glorious.
If after studying one can remember a subject matter, he is gifted with a good memory or smṛti.
And the ability not only to read many books on different subject matters but to understand them and apply them when necessary is intelligence (medhā), another opulence".(Srila Prabhupada's purport B.G. 10:34)
Great interview. Haribol!
Thank you Garuda Pranhu
Spicy intro! Much mirch, so hing
Also, Fred is a real one.
the Doge is strong in this one lmao
@@জীবেরস্বরূপহয়কৃষ্ণেরনিত্যদাস no difficulty. to the moon. diamond hands
I like the new intro...Hare Krsna😆
Garuda Das is amazing. This guys a treasure to the movement and honestly things would be alot better if we had like 10 of this guy running things!!! People need to understand that Prahbupad is from colonial India 100 damn years ago lol Some ways of thinking and wording things have obviously changed and it's just dumb to hold someone from that time period to today's standards of speaking and what's considered offensive today. Common sense would go along way instead of this pitiful cancel culture
There should be quotes "..." created from the class. Great stuff. 🙏🏻
I think opening these conversations up with non devotee feminists, members of the LGBT community and race activists would be interesting and perhaps a little more enlightening. None of the answers given here are very satisfying.
Feminist ideology is completely against ISCKON
@@EliasRykart Exactly, which is why the debate with the wider world would be a great eye opener for devotees and non-devotees alike.
Garuda is a professor who lost his marbles. He is talking about things unrelated to the announced topic as given in the title of this video.
He was a man born in the 19th century, who left India at the age of 70 to come to the West. Humans are complex. You can't boil someone down to one particular thing. Gandhi had racist views, but he still was a great person that did great things. Same thing for Winston Churchill. But today, especially online, young people would want to tear both of them down. Prabhupada said some wild stuff that should be taken separately from his spiritual teaching. He was still a spiritual master, Sanskrit scholar, and leader who did great things. Things. But he was also an old man with certain views. As far as the rape thing is concerned, I personally think that he meant "seduction"...because No woman really enjoys rape in real life. However, there are a bunch of women who enjoy rape/coercive sex on the pages of romance books as a fetish.
In any case, just separate the spiritual teachings from the man's personal views, don't view him as a God, just view him as a man. And realize that he was a person of his time.
Okay okay after like 5 minutes I would like to ask a question! What to travel part say about changing his books before he left his body he must have said something that's all that matters! Namaste!
Very intelligent university professor of Indology. However, Prabhupada's program of opening farms and temples is not happening anymore. Every US ISKCON devotee lives now in his private home, temples are closed during the week and many only open for festivals organized with imported devotees from Mexico, Venezuela, and Argentina.
did you open a temple? if you did then congratulations. The service is open to anyone. when Srila Prabhupada asked his disciples to open temples, they basically had to assemble the resources themselves. some devotees still do it, I've seen it.
@@cmpdas Your mentors gave Hare Krishna in Europe such a bad name that our devotees only distribute books. Of course not books that were touched by your book changer rascal editor.
@@lenny108 all glories to the book distributors. no one can stop Lord Chaitanya's movement
Prabhupad came from an orthodox vaishnava hindu bengali background and was a product of his cultural conditoning and brought that to the west when he came.. This doesnt take away from his spiritual level of attainment but the statements he made that were misogyonistic, racist and homophobic were also a product of his envrionment and shouldnt be justified or ignored.. you can delete my comments but its not solving the issue.
Prabhupada's environment was suddha sattva, above all materialistic modes.
We can't hang out in materialistic modes, and be a truly aspiring devotee, isn't it? When we let go of adherence to modern social mundane and delusional concepts, we join the family of the greatest well-wisher of the conditioned jivas, and struggling transcendentalists.
🙏🏻💐
@Nath Krishna People of dark color are not raised in good culture. You can still see that they have no culture today, so someone raised without a culture sadly going to wreck havoc in the society. Ask Denzel Washington about "Black Lives Matter"
th-cam.com/video/UOdE8iGn9Ak/w-d-xo.html
Also, I think Srila Prabhupada gave initiations to everyone without discrimination. One example I can remember is Bhakti Tritha Maharaj and SP guided him in his spiritual journey. Sadly, we are just way too conditioned and too quick to judge rather than pleading to Krishna and asking him to understand these statements. It works, it is just that you need to be sincere and it takes time to wrap one's head around.
@Nath Krishna Prabhu, for us slavery and mistreatment are synonymous. But are we really thinking that Srila Prabhupada meant that Black bodied people should be treated poorly?? I don't think so prabhu.
If one just sees Srila Prabhupada's level of concern for welfare of every living entity, then they themselves can see he was speaking from another vantage point ( provided if they're willing to, generally people don't have much intelligence to see beyond their perverted understanding )
Slaves must be treated nicely just like family members. So, If you treat them like family members everyone will be happy. Just like we are happy to be slaves of Krishna beacuse he's a loving person, right?
Now, it will just take a little bit of more thinking along the same line which Srila Prabhupada was thinking and you can arrive at very different conclusions.
So, we need to lead the people who aren't able to think for themselves through the statements of Srila Prabhupada, otherwise they can get a very wrong understanding about Srila Prabhupada.
Thinking about these controversial statements helps in making the brain strong. But often people are addicted to taking the shortest route, which if taken is a recipe for disaster.
ISKCON should have more discussions on such issues because atleast people would get to know about such statements and more importantly 'HOW TO THINK'.
It's good that such statements doesn't bothers you, it's a sign of matured understanding.
@@akashverma4280 That's the racism right there, prabhu.
I don't agree with your language , Prabhupada may have spoken some un-comfortable truth's to the liberal ear , but its HIS force of nature that is proving right , and its been historically right . By going against , What were essentially throwaway lines by Prabhupada , your sticking two fingers up to Krishna.
Garura not Garuda.
Kidnap has now a double perception also in the contemporary time, as does rape.
Today kidnap means for ransom some wealthy woman, child or an influencial person is forcibly captured, and when relatives are informed, the kidnappers torture the victim(s) held as hostage to get MONEY!!!
Śrīla Prabhupada explains the ancient version of the word "kidnap". "Kṛṣṇa advised Arjuna to kidnap Subhadrā. Just see how much Kṛṣṇa was affectionate to Arjuna that Arjuna liked also to marry Subhadrā, and Subhadrā also liked, but the elder brother did not agree. So they made a plan that Arjuna kidnap Subhadrā.
This kidnapping was allowed among the kṣatriyas, and also fight. That is kṣatriya marriage. Unless there is fight, that marriage is not complete. The red vermilion which we apply, that is kṣatriya principle. After killing the opposite party, the blood will be smeared over the hair of the bride." BG 1.16-19 class July 1973 London
Which bride today will have blood of a murdered opponent smeared on her part, after being taken away by a great hero?
(Subhadra would have been given to the nasty evil Duryodana.)
Doesn't rape have double perception as well, which should be made transparent, so that we can all understand how Śrīla Prabhupada is not at all a racist, or a proponent of kidnap, torture, rape or racial violence?
Rape is Rape!. A double perception?. How about you try to elucidate that for us?.
Prabhupad said “rape means without consent, sex. otherwise how can there be rape”. He meant rape.
You never came back to the point of why he removed that foreword from Bhagavad Gita. 🤧
Garuda das ke jay
professors dont have trouble teaching the old testament to their students . if they dont teach the bible as literal and infallible they teach it as the " spirit of the law rather than as the Letter of the law" . This way professors even ISKCON bhaktas can teach the Bhagavad Gita.( it may be more challenging until they also learn to look at the scripture with more flexablity)
The rape comment was taken out of context. If you listen to the whole conversation he was talking about how a lawyer tricked a women into saying she felt pleasure during the sex of a rape. You have to listen to the whole conversation.
So you think rape isn’t actually rape if the woman feels pleasure at any point during the act?
I don't know, if you read the passage about rape, seems like Guruda prabhu is really stretching it here. to me it seems like rape is being used, not in our modern sense of "forced sex", but that its consensual sex, but as a result of seduction. By that I suppose you could extrapolate that, that someone who enjoys that is not in the mode of goodness, but in passion or ignorance. I suspect that, in previous ages, when women had a different social position than now, that any sex outside of marriage would be considered the man's fault and thus considered rape, even if the woman consented.
Kidnap has now a double perception also in the contemporary time, as does rape.
Today kidnap means for ransom some wealthy woman, child or an influencial person is forcibly captured, and when relatives are informed, the kidnappers torture the victim(s) held as hostage to get MONEY!!!
Śrīla Prabhupada explains the ancient version of the word "kidnap". "Kṛṣṇa advised Arjuna to kidnap Subhadrā. Just see how much Kṛṣṇa was affectionate to Arjuna that Arjuna liked also to marry Subhadrā, and Subhadrā also liked, but the elder brother did not agree. So they made a plan that Arjuna kidnap Subhadrā.
This kidnapping was allowed among the kṣatriyas, and also fight. That is kṣatriya marriage. Unless there is fight, that marriage is not complete. The red vermilion which we apply, that is kṣatriya principle. After killing the opposite party, the blood will be smeared over the hair of the bride." BG 1.16-19 class July 1973 London
Which bride today will have blood of a murdered opponent smeared on her part, after being taken away by a great hero?
(Subhadra would have been given to the nasty evil Duryodana.)
Doesn't rape have double perception as well, which should be made transparent, so that we can all understand how Śrīla Prabhupada is not at all a racist, or a proponent of kidnap, torture, rape or racial violence?
That means you have not investigated the context of Srila Prabhupada's statements. You are just regurgitating what you have heard from other devotees.
Understand the context by reading this:
drive.google.com/file/d/1_PBXkhe_XCVlxAoU51PJxuAlqFuwC0t0/view?usp=sharing
@@krishnadasa108 thanks. I was reading it in the context of the story that's being narrated in the Bhagavatam. the woman mentioned in the Puranjana story seems to want consensual relations. Although after re-reading, I realize he said "although it is illegal". Given Srila Prabhupada's conversation where he says "sometimes", it seems to clarify what he is saying in the Puranjan purport, in agreement with Garuda prabhu's explanation.
@@cmpdas,
I also think that Garuda Prabhu's explanation is a possible explanation. Some women think like that. But not many. But it is a very low level of mentality. Just like most men do not want to rape, so most women do not want to be raped.
Ha ha, no, prabhu. Isn't the simplest explanation that Srila Prabhupada really applied a simple meaning here, easy to understand? Of course, ashraya also means that we need to deal with that and with the implications. We need to own this, instead of explaining it away like sophists. Srila Prabhupada didn't suffer sophists gladly. Hare Krishna
No he was a pure devotee of God none of the other stuff was relevance it wouldn't make sense so his divine grace taught simply coherently but of a high spiritual nature handed down through millennia! What happened to iskcon well all the devotees know what happens just keep chanting and spreading the holy name! Engaged in devotional service and you won't get cut spiritual life cycle razor's edge you're walking and you can get cut at any time! Or like George Harrison he likes to race cars but I don't know if it was just divine grace or one of his devotees said spiritual life is like driving a race car one little small move on the driving wheel can spin the whole car out and wreck it! That certainly true devotional service in this age! But it's like the first what 5000 of k a l i Yuga? Why did we have two avatars? This is always been the question for me I worship them all but I asked the question usually there's one Avatar per yuga! But we had Lord shaitanya and Lord Mitch and under Radha and Krishna so why would k a l k i still come at the end of the Yuga? I thought I read that there's only one Avatar per Yuga? Anyway can't be happy! The Lord is awaiting on us all! Thank you George Harrison My Sweet Lord! George was My Sweet Lord! Hare Krishna!
White skinned means Brahmin...Black skinned means Sudra🤔 Prabhupada statements
That it also stated in the Buddhist Sutra's .
Anybody that wants to know about Krishna should just listen and read Mr Michael cremo and associate! What did your guru say change or no change is acceptable you must have said something! Chant and be happy!
I dont understand your comments, I read it a few times, but just dont understand it.
Talks about everything except doing Sankirtan , eating prasadam , Bhagavad gita verses.
Mahaprabhu lived the first two points and Praphubada himself said that Iskcon is about the Bhagavad Gita.
This is so wrong. Completly false. Cheating
It’s pretty easy to get into Johns Hopkins and Harvard when you come from money.
It's not about money, it's about qualifications and intelligence which H.G GARUDA PRABHU JI very much, therefore he became interested in lord sri krishna and SRILA PRABHUPADA JI, leaving all material opulence and sense pleasure, so don't speak something wrong about a great person whom you doesn't even know personally, and except this H.G GARUDA PRABHU JI had studied and completed all masters degrees from havard and other, also he is a professor in a university, so if you can't glorify then atleast don't blaspheme anyone.
Hahaha still trying to justify Prabhupadas awful comments 🤣
You live in cartoon land if you think he was wrong, but these were essentially just throwaway lines.
@@TheConduit10Ironically, it is you who lives in cartoon land
Srila prabhupada ji is all perfect and all correct, so srila prabhupada ji's every lines or word is perfect and correct, so if you can't understand srila prabhupada ji's perfect statements with your very tiny and small intelligence or more likely no intelligence then no one cares, and who are you ? To speak and judge about Srila Prabhupada ji's statements, and how can you tell yourself a devotee? If you can't offer respects and gratitude to srila prabhupada ji then just shut up.
You're totally wrong, first of all know the position of HIS DIVINE GRACE A.C BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI SRILA PRABHUPADA and how exalted srila prabhupada ji are and what srila prabhupada ji as done for you and for everyone, then if you can't glorify srila prabhupada ji then atleast don't speak something foolish .
I saw your podcast on covid vac it seem to me that you just wanted to follow the government narrative .. There are pastors in jail because they wanted the doors of there church to be open to people.. These people put God and there faith first maybe you could think on that.