A rebel against the ruling superpower, a controversial man reviled by many to this day, a man not afraid to use violence in the name of resistance.. We hope you enjoyed our take on Lautrec Support us on Patreon! www.patreon.com/user?u=3372968 May grace guide us all.. ✨ Hawkshaw
I think he and Solaire are actually friendly, which would explain why he gives you the sunlight medal and they can both be summoned together for the gargoyles and gaping dragon. Solaire doesn’t fight for the glory of the gods, he fights for himself and his comrades in pursuit of his own glory (sun). So Lautrec respects him.
Not so sure thats the case honestly, considering how much Solaire gushes about the gods within 5 minutes of your first encounter with him. Mentions longing to be like them which is why he's seeking the sun to begin with. Personally I think him handing over the sunlight medal was kind of a mocking gesture, you help him and he gave you something *he* deems entirely worthless. I think he likely used Solaire for assistance at one point (just as he uses you) and then had zero intention of becoming a warrior of sunlight, someone who spends their time helping others, and was picking fun at you for helping him to begin with. Would be easy when he knows his intentions arent favorable. So kind of comparing you to Solaire in a way, which is to say he's calling you gullible; easily manipulated. Stupid. That aint respect haha.
@@jayneeomeara2872 His equipment is also found next to the sun princess room. Implying some connection to gywnevere or the lie created by gwyndolin. I like to think Lauren thinks of Solaire and dumb or ignorant but sees him as an ally in some way, which makes sense to me, else why would their signs be so close so many times? There are too many fight where they are both there to be coincidence. Is your cup half full or half empty?
Think about the difference between the respective death animations of Ornstein and Smough, and how the survivor reacts towards their fallen companion. I would like to imagine that if Solair and Lautrec had a working relationship, it would mirror the one between Ornstein and Smough.
Lautrec never came off to me as arrogant. When he is in his cell and asks as to free him, he is simply appealing to our self interest. He might be a man too proud to beg us for his freedom, but his willingness to compensate us shows that he is does not view it beneath himself to ask for help.
He's also clever than that. He has absolutely no way of telling what kind of person the player is. Offering a reward to us would satisfy both a selfish and selfless player. A selfish player would be incentivised at the free reward, and a sefless player would open the door regardless, the reward being helping another in need. So offering a reward would give him the best chance out of his cell
You should have mentioned the theory that Lautrec kills Gwynevere in his world. He says he has "business up above", so he has something he wants to do in the castle. And when you invade him at Anor Londo, his world seems to be darker than usual.
@@t0caia726 ye that's the confusing part. I would've argued that he killed himself after (probably) killing Geyenevere in his world but I doubt he'd stop his quest right then and there
@@tokehn It's simple: He was hunted down by the Blades of the Darkmoon. If you harm Gwynevere's illusion, then you are a sinner and can be invaded by them. Gwyndolin declares you an enemy.
A interesting touch in the black eye orb invasion is that one of his comrades seems to be one of the three sealers of New Londo. Maybe this one swore revenge to the gods after finding out that they fooled him to flood a city full of innocent people and so joined Lautrec on his quest. What do you think about it?
On the last cutscene it's interesting how suprised and then shocked the undead looks. Casually lighting another bonfire until boom. Once realising the deception they become frozen, staring at their hands. Hawkshaw is a masterclass!
@@jasonparker2616 perhaps it could be both? as each undead is different you see them react different, where my undead would want to be good and think they were doing what is right, only to be used by the gods and tossed away, while yours feels as though they have done their task, ready for the afterlife for peace.
@@jasonparker2616 I said that because of his dialog: Ahh, it singeth, to the bone, it hurts... Please, help me. Be done with me... No, gods, no, I cannot bear it... It burns, burns, help me..." (After killing Dragonslayer Armour) "See ye not? I am a lord... A wee flame, belike, but I shoulder the world... Forgive me. Oh please... I am not to blame. I'm not" it was said by Ludleth of Courland on DS3, he is the only one who describes the burning of the flame.
I think Lautrec wrote this video. And if you believe it, you're exactly the player character he's been waiting for. Let your hero out, chosen undead...
But Plague what if you knew from the start Lautrec was right and you were being used but like me every time choose to kick him off the cliff? I mean he might be a unsung hero but the cliff...THE CLIFF!! How could I not?
@@damjanmuskinja9227 ... they didn't though? It's what humans end up as, just the hollowing they face in the lore is caused by Gwyn due to him trying to contain them with a fire seal dark sign deal. It's actual lore in ds3 in the Ringed City Dlc
You know, i think he had fair reason to have an untrusting and gruff tone of voice to the undead. Some chose to not free him from the cell. And have you seen literally EVERYTHING trying to kill you? Of course he's hostile.
One thing i'm surprised wasn't brought up is that one of Lautrec's gank buddies is the 3rd New Londor Sealer. The Sealer who has no mask because the mask is a symbol of loyalty, which has been discarded by said Sealer. So Lautrec actually has a goal noble enough for a Sealer to join his cause, a Sealer who, unlike Ingward, was so disgusted by the gods' order to genocide an entire city, left them due to having better morals. Better. Morals. I've also always been quite surprised at how regretful his lines portray him as whenever the player does any sort of actions to fight him. The guy offers to help in 2 critical bosses to reach the Bells of Awakening and never invades the player. It seems to point to him genuinely having a high opinion of the player the more they succeed, since we prove ourselves to be above the average undead, and he thinks that we're smarter than we actually are, as ironic as that is. Things point to him accidentally thinking that the player is not the clueless brainwashed tool that we mostly are, having seen through the big lie of the gods, and is surprised to see that we are actually as stupid as the average undead when confronting him. He likely assumed that we got the hint and are on his side, hence his shocking lack of hostility until we instigate a fight, but he's unfortunately wrong and thought too highly of us.
Man straight up told us he doesn't expect us to be friends all the way. He already knows we're gonna come after him. And shut the "better morals" up if said guy with a "noble cause" is willing to murder a defenseless woman.
The fact that Anastasia doesn't seem to be too please that she was revived always made me guess that there were more to the story between her and Lautrec, hope this will give me a conclusion.
Notice that her actual ambition is to die. Also notice that you can't hit her through the bars, and that her robe is within reach. She helped Lautrec kill her. It isn't a murder, it's an assisted suicide.
@@jonathanreece4151 also Lautrec's weapons of choice are very close range. And he sits for a very long time and only when you ring the hard to reach bell, does he seem to take action... He didn't do this mindlessly or ruthlessly... he definitely seems to be weighing the options...
I think npc summons/invasions are telling about their motives as well. Lautrec never invades us. Others' agendas align and malign them with us at different points. Paladin Leeroy for example, he helps us kill Pinwheel but invades and tries to prevent us from reaching Nito. I've puzzled over Lautrec's motives because he helps us kill the Gargoyles and the Gaping Dragon then seemingly turns against us by killing/stealing our firekeeper. I like this take that he is actually indifferent to us, that disabling our bonfire is nothing personal against us. To dip outside of DS1 for a moment, I think that DS3 echoes a lot of the same character stories just with new characters and new names. Retellings of the same stories but with new characters. We can use what we see in DS3 to fill in holes in DS1. For example, I think that Irina of Carim in DS3 is a retelling of Reah of Thorolund. Both escorted by trusted knights on a holy pilgrimage. Both fall short and are rescued by the player. Reah says she seeks the Right of Kindling, but in DS3 we see Irina become a Fire Keeper. Therefore, I think seeking the Right of Kindling was a step in Reah's journey to becoming a Fire Keeper. The analogous character to Lautrec in DS3 is Ringfinger Leonhard. Rather indifferent to the player's journey. Disables a major game mechanic until invading and defeating him with a black eyed orb. Both retreat to the same area. When we look at Leonhard he seems to be trying to preserve or protect the soul he stole. Perhaps this is an echo of Lautrec's motives as well. Perhaps he believes that killing and taking the soul of the tongueless npc is a mercy sparing her from her current position. The conditions for Lautrec to steal Anastacia's soul are either once the player has opened the path to Anor Londo by ringing both Bells of Awakening. Or after the player has collected the Fire Keeper souls in the Undead Parish and in Blighttown. Perhaps that second condition is not motivated by gameplay but rather lore. If Lautrec sees us collecting Fire Keeper souls perhaps he suspects we'll come for Anastacia's next. He would rather take her soul himself even if the path to Anor Londo is not yet opened rather than let some other undead take it. He helps us clear a path to Anor Londo because that's where he wants to go. The Gargoyles must be defeated to ring the first bell and the Gaping Dragon bars the path to the second bell. It's not that he wants to help the player on his quest, it's that Lautrec wishes to reach Anor Londo and is indifferent to the player and our quest. Good thought provoking stuff, as always Hawkshaw :) Thank you!
Finally! someone understands our boy Lautrec. To add to this theory the Black Eye Orb connects the firekeeper to the truth of a dark empty Anor Londo, so her tongue was removed.
Well this is the benefit of an ambiguous story it allows people to theorise their own versions of the story and look at it in different ways which makes it more interesting.
Practically everything in the game has some deeper meaning. Not a single thing placed in the game is meaningless, even the rushed and limited parts. I think dark souls actually invented a new form of philosophy.
@@vashdesperado1232 This. The game just took the classic storytelling "show, don't tell" axiom to the next level. It leaves entirely to the player the task of finding and putting the pieces of the puzzle together, and done right it ages like wine.
Happy Holidays! Tis the season for forgiveness... Let us know if you enjoyed this episode! Apologies for the spoiler mistake, Skip to 11:45, and 29:08 to avoid them!
This is off topic a little bit but hawkshaw, what do you think about the painted world in dark souls 3 being a metaphor for FromSoft needing to make new IPs? Burning an old IP (ie dark souls) in order to create a new world (sekiro, elden ring) Your solaire interpretation sort of sparked this idea.
This video was quite good, imo better than the last one, but still there seems to be quite a lot of running in circles One of the main good things about your videos was that you'd often present evidence from multiple different sources, but this video has a lot of repeated claims replacing that instead Also the script could have been better written, not just because of the repeats, but your jumping from topic to topic with multiple digressions didn't make much sense to me
So he's literally the secret protagonist and voice of true unadulterated reason in the game, which is foiled by the game's writing making you believe he's evil based on the assumptions they plant in your mind from the beginning. There's a reason every game gets compared to Dark Souls, this series is truly a master class in writing and character building.
@@OMoanaigh I honestly believe it's truly in a class of it's own. There are plenty of games that try to mimic certain gameplay mechanics or replicate the overall aesthetic, but none of them will ever _be_ Dark Souls. It has a flavor unto itself. It is truly "other".
Absolutely. I see Lautrec as a mirror of the player character. I think there are several like us in the game pursuing all our own goals. Oscar and Solaire for example.
Or the way it tells the story, where the player kind of has to dig for pieces of the puzzle, never knowing which of the last survivors tells the truth. And the link between gameplay & lore that explains why the player can respawn after death was clever. We are used to respawning at a checkpoint in every game and then DS came and made it part of the story. It's unfinished and has some quirks, but it's obvious how much thought was put into so many details.
Lautrec was always kind of my favorite NPC, because his armor looks fabulous and he dual-wielded. Plus he was just so mysterious and it felt like he had a plan grander than I could see, and I could never know what it was because I put a stop to it.
On this episode of “Gwyn ruined everything” we explain why Lautrec did nothing wrong I honestly had no clue people thought he was an evil psychopath, I always assumed he was just desperate. I thought that his killings might have had some kind of purpose relating to Fina or something rather than him just wanting to randomly butcher cripples and take their souls.
What Gwyn did is no different than what those trying to usher the Age of Dark are trying to do. If Lautrec does what his weirdo Goddess demands to create the world she wants, how is that any different from Gwyn trying to save everything he loves to the uncaring cycles of nature? Why should the Gods just stand down and fade away? The Dragons didn't just accept their fall, they fought to the very end, they fought to maintain their supremacy. The core concept of the Souls series is the unending struggle against destiny. Not only for mortals, or the player, but for the very Gods, Demons and everything in-between.
The difference with the Gods is they use everyone else for their own gain. Humans are pawns to them. Demons don’t use anyone but themselves for their gain.
@@aceclover758Ah, yes. Please tell that to the egg-bearing bastards outside my door. Seriously, I am a Chaos Servant, but this is ridiculous! Of course we use people for our gain!
@@aceclover758 You really think so? No, really. Our covenant is built upon the worship of Chaos, and in our case, the Fair Lady specifically. The Witch Of Izalith and her children are gods, and every single demon is their creation. The human worshippers are being directly exploited to make more of said demons, sucking out their humanity( each egg is a cradle for a tiny humanity, as is said). And they are being told to love it. You know why? Because it's religion. And it's good for business. Do you think that, at any point, you were tricked into linking the Fire? You were told to succeed Lord Gwyn. Look at Lord Gwyn. Look at him. Look closer. You could've just walked out of the Kiln. No, really. That's the whole Dark Lord ending, except you can do it yourself. You can even just ignore Gwyn and not fight him at all. Just...leave. The moment you saw Gwyn, you either knew what you were getting into, or you were a ###ing idiot. That is, of course, without mentioning the fact that Gwyn is already commemorated as dead despite you having to succeed him by taking the Flame from his " living" hands. So, of course you were going to look like him. The only real trick is the framing. Gwynevere sounds nice. Gwyndolin isn't good with people. Gwynevere uses his sister's voice to talk in a way he wouldn't normally be able to. Speaking of gods tricking people how many gods do you see in Anor Londo? That's why it ain't no trick. You're here to " prevent further Undead sacrifices". You are the last Undead sacrifice of this specific era. Until the Fire needs more fuel, no one else needs to suffer the whole slew of bull-## you went through as an Undead. No more chasing Lords. No more kindling bonfires. Everyone would just..chill for a while. And guess what? They did. Kingdoms came,prospered and went. The gods were still missing, but few people cared. Everything just kept going, until the Fire weakened again, and Undead started increasing again. Do you know why Undead are feared? Do you know what one of us has to do to even look human? We pick some humanity off a corpse. Preferably, one we killed recently. Do you know why there's an asylum for us, now?
What is actually an interesting touchpoint for Lautrec and Fina is that the Ring of Favor and Protection is broken upon removal, but you can loot the ring off of Lautrec’s corpse when he dies. This suggests that only if the wearer of the ring removes it (or only if it is removed while the wearer still lives) does the ring break. Could this be an indication that the ring itself is a physical representation of Fina’s champion, such that if her current champion dies, she grants her Favor and Protection to the next potential champion who comes along? This seems to lend credence to the claim that she has a fickle nature. Though it may also indicate that the duty of her champion is of such importance that it transcends the death of her current champion. I would say these interpretations of Fina are not necessarily mutually exclusive. If this is the case, it might still be justifiable to kill Lautrec and loot the ring, so that you may take on the duty of the freedom fighter for Fina that Lautrec seems to be. If restoring/maintaining the Firelink Shrine bonfire aids you in achieving Fina’s goals of unveiling the deception of the gods, then it seems like it would be acceptable in the eyes of Fina for Lautrec to be killed by the Chosen Undead.
That's something I was thinking about, as well... Fickle isn't usually used to describe someone who changed allegiance just once, that is simply referred to as a betrayal, fickle implies multiple betrayals...
Its the opposite actually. Maybe the fact that the ring can be looted means Lautrec wasn't actually wearing the ring. Because he truely didn't trust her or would give himself to her.
@@ryanrobot7975 Yes? And? The ring represents commitment and the fact its lootable shows he never committed. He's fake, he projects loyalty and honor but isn't loyal or honorable. So much like the other characters he pretends to be something he is not.
@@Lowlightt or it just comes of when a person dies and becomes an object, like why would he just hold on to it if he's not using it and his hole thing is how much he loves this goddess
He is named the "tragic" embraced knight for a reason in DS3. Not to forget he is accompanied by one of the three New Londo sealers that lost his purpose of protecting the spreading of the Abyss outside of its boundaries. Ingward was the last sealer to have this purpose intact. Maybe the third sealer had also realized the falsity of the gods and the undead curse and sided with him for the same reasons you're suspecting in your video
The third sealer died in blightown trying to help the people there, this is hinted by the set you find there, the key to the ruins of new londo and remedy (which blatantly tells you the sorcery was meant to help ppl from the venom of the place, and that it was created by the sealers or at least used by them).
@@davidcardozo290I never thought he died, since all his belongings are in an intentional place in a chest. Given their value, it would make sense that this is a stash, he may have hung up the robes intentionally. Of course someone could’ve picked it off a corpse and put it there…
It's also interesting that Hawkshaw made videos about judging the character of Siegmeyer and Domhnall, and then goes to make a video about how misunderstood Lautrec is, and the way he leads every video towards the plot against the gods, and people trust his weird assumptions with little evidence and a lot of conjecture.
@Tasorius Yeah he honestly just seems to make things up and try to turn the narrative into all bad guys are actually good and all good/neutral guys are actually bad. It’s just contrarian garbage for the most part tbh.
@@Tasorius That's the thing with DS lore, it's so interpretative that many people just go "Oh I didn't think of that!" when presented with a well-phrased argument, even if the argument is complete nonsense
@@bajscast Nonsense is fine, but when they present it as pretty much a fact, it becomes a problem for me... One reason why I like Vaati is that he is humble, and knows that his words are not facts, but interpretations... Others think more highly of their very much speculative theories... The Ashen Hollow stands out because I once tried to make him understand that every character in a game is not always speaking canonical truths, but he didn't get it, even when I gave examples of characters saying incompatible things and somehow I was the idiot.... Hawkshaw just likes to vilify good characters, and praise villains... I wonder when his video about the Dung Eater being a hero comes out, unless it already exists... I miss the time of "Solaire is the Firstborn"...
@@Tasorius Yeah, I've met a lot of people insisting completely that their interpretation is correct. Recently I got into an argument with some power user on one of the dark souls wikis - who normally had well thought out and reasonable views on things... But insisted, for some reason, that Shira from the ringed city was actually seath's daughter. The evidence? That she says 'I am daughter of the duke'. Doesn't specify which duke and seath is long, long dead, and we don't know if dragons can even have kids, but this one who doesn't have a single draconic feature must actually be half dragon...
Everything in my mind right now is screaming how absurd this idea is, which only makes the eventual video discussion all that much more enticing. I can’t wait. Was I wrong to hate him so, taking exquisite delight in stamping him out each playthrough…?
I mean.. Surely he had some reason to kill the Firekeeper..? Surely he didn’t do it just to inconvenience a single Undead.. or maybe he did do it, to hamper the _Chosen_ Undead?
Really appreciate the thorough look at Lautrec. I wanted to include a strange observation I found because I think it's somewhat relevant. In Gnosticism Sophia is considered to be the 'wisdom of God', and the female counterpart of God. Lautrec's armor set says he is 'embraced by Fina' and he frequently speaks about wisdom. In this way he may embraced by the wisdom of Fina, or a Goddess not unlike Sophia, and as a result privy to the fact that the world is being run by the God's for their own purposes. I think it's an interesting parallel. Awesome video.
It's interesting that he has a lot in common with the Darkwraiths, with his whole stealing humanity and opposition to the gods' plan. He seems to be loyal to his goddess and only her, but if she's an ally to the demons, what's in it for them to prevent the linking of the flame?
If you are referring to the demons, they would be protecting the bed of chaos, the soul of which is necessaryto link the flame. I don't think they care much about linking the flame besides that.
“unbiased wikipedia” wikipedia is incredibly biased, depending on the article and where you look. While other users can correct you should they desire, there’s definitely a group of power users who will override everything to fit a certain narrative. The most neutral example I can think of is that the English wikipedia page for marijuana and the Swedish one differ greatly. Swedish goes on for paragraphs about how dangerous it; unsurprisingly as it happens, it’s illegal there. The english wiki page has a list of both good and bad effects. The good effects are not listed at all on the swedish one, and attempts to include them will be removed within 24 hours. I’m not a pot-smoker, but ran into that when doing research and it fascinated me.
4:30 NOPE, seeth is absolutely evil, as in lawful evil he is a dragon that hoards knowledge and kidnaps maidens to experiment on them, you don't get more classical villainous dragon lich than that
@@jasonparker2616 Except in dark souls 2 the bed of chaos, the source of demons is already dead, the chaos flame is dying and thus the race is doomed to extinction because of the quest of the chosen undead. Why would any species want to associate peacefully with one that has condemned them to annihilation? As for seath, why should he care about humans or gods? The only reason he ever worked with them in the first place was to gain something. Even so Seath watched them indiscriminately slaughter every dragon, making an entire race go extinct and not for the last time, Seath was there when Gwyn locked away the the primal humans at the end of time, seath was there when Gwyn used his own daughter as a sacrifice to contain them, why would a creature care about them if they can't even care about one another? To the end human and gods are just as easily expendable as demons and dragons and undead are to our character.
@@anonymousweeb7424 humans can care for one another, wtf are you on? Is sacrificing for the greater good now bad? And demons have always been wrathful, you can tell by the very people who dedicated themselves to the chaos, the chaos did nothing but hurt them, malform them, and drive them insane, and demons spread chaos wherever they go. Good riddance that the chaos is going extinct. Nothing you said about Seath proves he wasn't a dichead psycho
@@jasonparker2616 first humans being capable of caring about one another doesn't discredit the fact they are capable of hurting each other far worse then they are capable of caring about someone. Which was proven at the very beginning of the dark souls time line when humans, decided to basically racially segregate themselves and condemn one half, the half known as humans to be fodder for a supposedly superior race, calling themselves gods, sounds a lot like racism to me, so why exactly would seath care about a species that is racist onto itself anyway? Second of all the demon's had a pact with Gwyn and his legion after the war, they had there own culture and way of life as evident by the statues of demons, the blacksmithing that was developed after the creation of demons and just the entire architecture of Izalith. And I suppose your taking Quelana's words as fact that everything touched by the demon's was malformed and drove them insane, except we KNOW that isn't correct since the fair lady is sad not because she became a spider demon but because the eggs she laid died thus preventing the birth of more demons. Also not insane given how she possess the capacity for compassion for Eingyi, swallowing the blight pus which is what screwed her up in the first place despite quelaag telling her not too, once again proving that they aren't insane, neither is Eingyi whom has a cure for his condition but decides against taking it because of his loyalty to the fair lady. The fact that no demon wants to converse with you in the entire game, is down to a combination of a language barrier since we know the citizens of Izalith had a language unknown to the chosen undead hence why they need the ring to talk to the fair lady, and the knowledge of what the prophesy of the chosen undead entails, namely killing their creator/mother, hence why they appear in direct opposition to you reaching the bells and becoming the "chosen undead" As for sacrifices for the greater good, what gives someone the right to decide what is good? Why was it "GOOD" for Gwyn to use his daughter as a trap for the primal man? Why was it "GOOD" to brand an entire people with the dark sign? What is good for one person is not always good for another. And as is, dragons were immortal, requiring no sustenance or having any requirement for anything, yet Gwyn still destroyed them for the sake of his own good. Is every doctor, nurse, scientist who has experimented on an animal also a psychopath then? Because the only difference for Seath is that the species he is experimenting on has a fighting chance of retaliating. Once again, what is the greater good for one is not the greater good for all. Or would you be satisfied slowly rotting away from what in the case of seath is a birth defect when your life could be saved by experimenting on another creature? A creature which I might add in most cases is part of a charade to see people set ablaze since Seath mainly captures maidens, in particular holy maidens or those with strong ties to Gwyn and Anor Londo such as Dusk?
Goddamn. I'm sold. His dialogue makes a lot more sense in this context, and really if you contemplate the world he exists in, it does add up. Man... how do you do a run of this game being enlightened while still doing all the bullshit messed up things you shouldn't have to do? I don't really want to fight the demons, but I do want to end the age of the gods...
You're killing the demons so that you may gain the power to kill the gods. Maybe you can see it that way. A cruel, power-hungry, utilitarian way of seeing things, but hey, it gets some gods killed so ultimately it does a lot more good than harm. Still, you gotta commit genocide on the demons to commit genocide on the gods.
And therefore you want to let the flame of creation fade so that everything returns to Dark. Most of the gods were gone anyway. Effectively you just want to punish the last deity who is trying to keep a fading age alive...
@@Tasorius First of all, what does the age of Dark entail for humanity? I think we need to establish that first before we argue for or against it, since it's somewhat ambiguous. Also the one deity that needs to be punished the most is Gwyn. Honestly, I wouldn't even punish the rest. If I knew that they don't want to have dominion over humanity. Gwynevere minded her own business for example. As did Gwyn's first-born.
@@haristheconqueror One thing the age of Dark means is that every human goes back to the hollowed state before the First Flame, and it's the age of Primordial Serpents... Punished for wanting to save his people at all costs. Even sacrificing himself to the First Flame. He has been punished enough already. What is your view of Gwyndolin, then?
@@Tasorius The age of Dark is not the age of Ancients though. So I doubt that would happen. The age of Fire and Dark were created after the advent of fire. Humans were hollow before then. But the age of Dark is part of the disparity. I ain't saying something equally as terrible couldn't happen to humanity, like turning into Oolacile monkeys or whatever they are, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't go hollow. Besides, other than somehow returning to the age of Ancients, the only way for humanity to go hollow is for Gwyn to be an asshole and brand them all with the darksign. And I get that he wants to save his people, but humanity never saw them as a threat and they themselves were never any danger to the gods. He is still the domineering aggressor here. As for Gwyndolin, he is in the same camp as Gwyn, only you could perhaps say he's been conditioned from childhood to want to enslave humanity and view them as inferior("foul heretic, swathed in Dark") He's not much better, I don't think, but he's no Gwyn. I'm actually not sure about how fervently anti-human Gwyndolin is but provided he lets go of his need to control humanity, he's no problem.
This is why I love this channel. I love hearing about video game lore, and most channels have their own takes and theories about how lore works, for the most part their videos feel like surface level readings that put the pieces together for the sake of the narrative. I like that your method comes down to introspection, theory crafting based on actions and parallels rather than words.
When Lautrec is in the cell, I didn’t get the feeling that he was mocking me or being condescending. He sounded like a person who has a goal to accomplish and wishes to just get straight to the point without actually telling you his overall goals.
In a series which basically posits that the notions of "good" and "evil" are childish delusions designed to establish and reinforce belief in and, subsequently, obedience to rigid hierarchy it did always seem strange that Lautrec would be so stereotypical a depiction of evil. I would still believe Patches when he comments on him being "completely mad". Though if Lautrec is so consumed by disgust and focused so firmly on his goal then yeah, to someone like Patches he would seem like a psycho.
Yeah…you know, except for serial killers, r*pists, and instigators of genocide. The world is not black and white, but done forget there IS evil in it. As for Lautrec, I feel he fell into the revolutionary’s folly, where the ends justify ANY means, no matter how cruel or twisted.
Patches’s purpose is to punish others for their greed, and since Lautrec’s desires are so difficult to pin down on the surface, it would make sense for Patches to write him off as simply being psychotic, and for Lautrec to see Patches as a nuisance.
There is one thing that makes me doubt this argument. And that is, his summon signs. If he actively wants to stop the chosen undead from linking the fire, why leave his signs anywere for help? It makes no sense. Why should he join you to beat monsters when he wants your like to fail
He doesn't want the undead to fail. He wants to end the deception of the undead that keeps the Lords in power. And as he wants to get to Anor Londo in his quest he also has to ring the bells to open Sen's Fortress. So why wouldn't he help fighting the gargoyles & gaping dragon, they're in his way as well.
Lautrec says that he'll repay the favor should he be freed from the Parish. He doesn't help if you collect the Firekeeper Souls from the Parish and Blighttown first, or slay the Gargoyles first. However, should you go after those two Firekeeper Souls first, he pre-emptively kills Anastasia.
Yeah this guy seems very biased for someone trying to make an unbiased video of lore. Not to mention him saying 'Demons are just ugly ok?! They are in no way evil, humans are just bad >:(" despite the fact DS2 completely debunks that idea.
I did a double take of that, because it just seemed silly. It just seemed his experiments were made specifically to spite them as a scorned mutant that knew his time was limited while his brothers would outlive him. He’s a mad scientist fueled by the spite he feels because of his physical limitations. So basically he’s a supervillain.
@@jasonparker2616 how does DS2 debunk it? I only just got into Dark Souls (and absolutely love this setting, the lore is so great) so I haven't had a chance to play the sequels yet
@@Baconomics1 in one of the DLCs for DS2, the demons start attacking Eleum Loyce with no reason behind their malevolence, the citizens did literally nothing to them, and they crawl up and start wreaking havoc.
I think you're misunderstanding the word "fickle". It doesn't mean traitorous, it's more like a figure in a position of power changing favourites frequently over minor transgressions.
Fickle means to change opinions and alliegences rather frequently and haphazardly. Someone who can't make up their own mind, someone indecisive. Now think about the Ring of Favor and protection. Do you keep on permanently? Or do you remove it, but risk breaking it? Do you trade it? Is it worth getting it? Such things to consider with such a "gift".
@@kingdomcome3914 Come home late from a night out with the boys and the girlfriend never wants to see you again. It's paralleled perfectly in innocently removing the ring briefly to make temporary use of another resulting in it breaking. Many women used to and some still regard removing a wedding ring in public as a form of cheating. Fina sees her devotees as potentially unfaithful romantic partners and is almost literally "clingy" which is represented in her heavy and cumbersome armour that constantly embraces and constricts its wearer. Her favor is a powerful boon, but also a burden because if you spurn it just once- even for a moment- you lose it forever. It is also noteworthy that her fickleness shows in the ring not breaking if it is taken forcibly from its former owner and claimed for oneself.
@@MisterBones2910 That rant aside, there is also another kind of person that the word fickle would apply to. That is, a child; or those with childish behaviors. Trading away the FaP ring gives you a Rare Ring of Sacrifice, which gives the implication that you're trading away a momentary boon for what seems like a nobler motive. Plus you can take off the ring without penalty.
Ignore this otherwise, but in the event it was, "#NotAll" I guess. It's an archetype, not a stereotype of every woman my dude. Don't take shit so seriously.
Well, well, well... I am afraid at the end of the day, what Lautrec most desperately needed was a good PR department... Your theory holds much, much validity. Thinking about it leaves me no choice but to give it a plausible rating at the utmost least. It appears Lautrec's only issue, silly as it may sound, is that he just sounds bad. Indeed, he may be a murderer, and he may be sending off people to die even more, but they would anyways, he may just be speeding up the process... Truly this new perspective has given me a new oulook on Lautrec... Perhaps I will overlook his murders from now on, each playthrough. The girl may be an innocent victim, but death is a mercy. I will live without the Bonfire.
Now since we are overanalysing stuff here, Lautrec is using very short weapons. But the firekeeper is quite a bit deep within her cage, for her to die to lautrec she had to crawl her way to the bars on her own free will. What if lautrec didnt just kill her, as he doesnt sit there in Aggression, but just talked to her and convinced her to let him take her life.
I always liked Lautrec because he helped with two boss fights which I think meant he was actually a bro and having him and solaire rolling in to a boss fight and beating the brakes off the boss was one of my all time favorite moments playing the game
I wasn't sure about this theory when you first started as "Lautrec the Rebel" idea. Then you started to explai nand I must say, this is an incredibly well crafted theory that may well be the actual event of DS1, making it all the more tragic to know that he f ailed to break the cicle, given that DS2 and 3 exist.
Holy shit this is amazing! Completely changed my mind about him, and in a way that even seems intentional in the stories writing, not only are the characters brainwashed, so is the player.. Also, theoretically, you can aid Lautrec in his quest by letting the fire keeper die, then letting the flame die in the ending, thus preventing other undead from emerging and re-kindling it
ohhhhhh shit!! this boy dropping knowledge! Now this 💩 makes sense!! always used to do the dark ending once I found out about it & never knew the difference between the two or why it was that way, or what it did to the game.
the one thing i found interesting and matches up with something you brought up multiple times is his arrogance while being captured. him knowing how many "chosen" undead there were and how willing he was to wait for someone else to free him. if we don't free in from his cell, he does indeed still show up at Firelink, albeit a bit later than he would have if we would have freed him.
Haven't watched the video yet, but I always thought of Lautrec as a good man driven to horrendous deeds by his love of Fina. In his cell, with nothing, his love of Fina remains, her arms still embracing him through his armor set. Lautrec wants to be the shining knight. He wants to assist the player as a warrior of sunlight, and just when you start to get to know him he tells you "let's not get too friendly now" as a warning, but also seemingly rejecting his own temptation to befriend the player character. He hates Patches because he hides his darker nature, while Lautrec never wanted the Chosen Undead to trust him in the first place. He is resolved to his fate, knowing he likely is going down the wrong path. Ultimately, he falls to his own vices, as do the other NPCs, and The Chosen Undead as well. We were chosen to succeed Gwyn... by succeeding his sacrifice, not in taking upon his godhood.
Hawkshaw, you are the best DS lore explorer. Nobody comes close to you in terms of quality. Everyone and their mothers knows Vaati. But you are the top when it comes to DS in my opinion. Your content is not repeating itself, you are not doing cheap "TOP" videos, you are looking at facts from the different angles. This video about Lautrec is probably the best one so far. You really turned my view of Lautrec. Thank you for your work and happy Holidays to you too! :)
I swear you've got the most interesting takes on these videos man... Again and again you got me revisiting this game's amazing story. Away with the seducing voices, THIS is The most exquisite channel for the discerning lore enthusiast!
It's so mind-blowing that this part of Lautrec has been overlooked for so long. When you put his dialogue back to back, it becomes pretty obvious. Kudos!
Ultimately Lautrec's disposition as either Hero or Villain most foul depends on where you stand on a key issue or two; Do you love the Gods and all their works? Would you sacrifice your life for the Greater Good? Or do you hold that Self-Determination is the height of freedom. And as with most things, each persons answer will be different. An excellent video and a thought-provoking one. Thank you
I've always found it interesting that one of his allies appears to be the third sealer of the new londo ruins. In some ways the sealers goals are opposite of this theory, Lautrec trying to prevent the linking of the fire by cutting off a key bonfire while the sealers prevent the spread of the dark by flooding New Londo.
The sealer was repulsed that the gods made them flood and kill the city. That’s why he’s with Lautrec. The flooding happened in the past. This the present
It is something *very* different to believed someone and to do something and to kept the believe, that it was good thing to do. The Sealer probably understood over time, if not at the time of the flooding, how bad decision it was. I can understand why one of the Sealers become renegade and teamed up with Lautrec.
You guys truly make some the most fascinating Dark Souls lore videos. Your arguments are interesting and insightful. I really appreciate your ability to give us perspective that runs against common conclusions. I never considered Lautrec this way.
Something something "reflective narrative" something something "it's like Spec Ops: The Line in its deconstruction of alleged player agency and reading ability". I always go full tankie and say DS is a critique of ideology: the powers that be demand self-immolation. Power creates the subjectivity of subjects. What Spec Ops: The Line does in literality, Dark Souls does metaphorically. It tells you: "Hmm... you wanna project your hero fantasy here, don't cha? Go ahead! Oh, wait... maybe you're an arsecap". And I always love an understated insult. Great video, as usual.
"FINA"lly some love for Lautrec. And a deep purpouse! He was already my favorite character even when i was fooled on thinking his goal was get back in Fina's grace!
Just wanted to share my thoughts on lautrec coming into the video. I never held anything against him. I always thought he was simply gathering humanity for his goddess the same way we do for our own covenants. As for why his invasion is outside of gwynevere's room, well I had heard from content creators that fina was exiled by seath so I assumed he needed the lord's vessel in order to reach and kill seath. Great video as always. It's always fun to see new takes on character stories.
"Lautrec is evil." Why? "Because his actions indirectly inconvenienced me once." How so? "I had to walk ALL THE WAY to Andre after Blighttown." You have to do that anyway. "Then he tried to kill me!" Oh? "Yes, when I invaded him he had a gank squad!" You. Invaded him. Correct?
I would like to point out one of the members of Lautrecs party is what appears to be a sealer from New Londo, a place the gods flooded because they feared humanity. Not sure the relevance but the fact it is there seems purposful to me.
while i do not let lortreck get away with his shenanigans, but i was roleplaying as a humbler kinda of guy, and liked lortreck from his rescue scene, he seems confident, even in bad situations, in a mad world his way of acting seems fair
I never connected it before but it makes sense that one of the New Londo sealers would be allied with Lautrec, considering the flood was probably one of the most horrifying acts done to preserve the fruitfulness of the church.
@@hatefulgaming1800 I guess it would depend on what you mean by innocent, as this video pointed out that most of the characters are complicit to the system. The implied horrors of this game are certainly artisanal and generative, but there's something different about the reality of those wet clumps of carcasses that huddle the corners; the lives that have been taken in the name of lords isn't abstracted anymore.
Now I want a game about Fina's followers as protagonists and Lautrec as a martyr. Subscribing to this chanel, only because of this video: changing the perspective of Dark Souls in the way it was intended at the ending of 2021... What a great game, and a fantastic community.
Dark Souls community: "Not eveything is as it seems!" Also Dark Souls community: "Lautrec is just a plain bastard." Thanks for sharing this very compelling argument.
Woah. New subscription gained. I also would like to point out your analysis has opened my eyes to a new perspective of Lautrec, as well as character diving as an entire whole. You truly are remarkable.
I never had any ill will or dislike for Lautrec and never understood the bad rep that he gets from players because he is literally me and every other souls player.
Another point too is when you revive the firekeeper she is uspet that she has failed and will be shunned for it....maybe he was trying to help but why not just tell us that it is a lie and ask for our help instead of trying to kill others to slow us down
I always wanted to understand him, He's one of my favorite ds1 characters, just because I don't know whats going on in his head, i don't believe anyone is just evil. especially in miyazakis games. he's too much of a storyteller
Major misinterpretation of the Xanthous Crown > FaP Ring connection. We know the Xanthous King had some connection to the Witch of Izalith, because the bug creature in Blighttown shaped similarly to the Crown is called the Xanthous Prince. Jeremiah probably accepted a similar parasite onto his head as a follower of the Witch of Izalith, and his being "embraced" by such a God (especially one who then ran afoul of Gwyn) is what connects Jeremiah to Lautrec. I don't think there's any concrete connection between Jeremiah and Fina anywhere in the game, and Snuggly's 'connections' are mostly tongue-in-cheek.
I love the fact that after so many years and after so many lore vidoes from multiple channels, Dark Souls lore is being discussed and viewed from a new scope!
I watch this vid at least once a month. Hawkshaw, your method of storytelling is superb and it truly makes my day each time I tune in. Thank you for your content. It brings my life so much joy.
This is a very entertaining alternate take. That being said, Lautrc's downright creepy comment about a 'nubile cleric' as well as the fact he seems to relish in collecting humanity makes me feel that he's honestly just an indifferent, selfish undead. He represents, lore wise, the invader who murders in cold blood to get his humanity, at the cost of another undead. The undead who WILL help someone out, but only to get humanity back for it. And he will only help if a Warrior of Sunlight is there to make most of the effort. He even throws away the Sunlight Medal because he sees no use for such a symbol. Jolly cooperation? Pah. He merely wants humanity.
Like the video says, he represents the experienced and lore-savvy veteran player. After we've done so many playthroughs we too become jaded and impersonal, cold and seemingly cruel. We kill NPCs as we see fit to stop character questlines where we like them to end, skipping NPCs we could easily rescue if we took but a minute or two to detour simply because we don't care for them and don't need them for our build, murder others for a novelty foreign sword we may or may not even use, getting some low-level invading done for the fun of it, and even picking the dark ending because we know that in light of all the evidence it's popularly viewed as the "correct" and maybe even "good" end. It's not our first rodeo or Lautrec's; that much is clear just by the fact that he knows to leave Crestfallen alone. Hell, we even rescue him and carelessly kick him off a cliff ten minutes later because we like his jewelry; scarcely better than our trusty, mild-mannered and unbreakable friend- the amnesiac spider with a laugh like a hyena. You might argue you had a reason to kill Lautrec, (protecting the Firekeeper) and I can almost hear Patches' sneering reply. After all, Patches has his reasons too; he hates clerics and those who aid them. The shiny trinkets- he'd argue with your own logic- are just a bonus for his exemplary public service you see. ...and on the point about Lautrec's "nubile cleric" line, how many "Amazing chest ahead," "Try thrusting," and "Tongue, but hole" guidance messages do you see per playthrough? What about all the player ghosts doing emotes under Priscilla's tail and "dress?" Lautrec is a Souls shitposter just like the rest of us.
@@MisterBones2910 I guess that's one way to interpret it, but in the context of the world, he is a complete asshole. I don't do NPC skips when I do serious playthroughs, myself The way I see it, Lautrec plays the way we do because he does not care about the world. Others play the way they do because they don't care, too, sure, but it's also because they know they're playing a game. Lautrec does not. Lautrec sees Lordran as a real place, and he is a real person with real consequences tied to his actions.
@@MisterBones2910 this is such a good interpretation, thank you for the great write up to add another comparison: Lautrec is very jaded, as you've described. Underneath it all though, he's got a soft spot, still devoted to his beloved Fina. This is basically just like all the veteran players who shamelessly murderhobo all of Lordran but still adore Solaire, enthusiastically participate in JOLLY COOPERATION, and will save him every playthough
Fantastic work, and a long-overdue dive into the complexities of Lautrec! Very much appreciated, would love to hear more of your insights on the world. Will certainly catch up on the previous video, and keep an eye out for future ones! One note on Rhea-- I think you may have gotten it backwards in regards to her value to the church, both in her use and her family connections. While it's not clearly explained or contextualized in the story openly, what we've seen of the Way of White and the brainwashing of the handmaidens and firekeepers seems to indicate that many or most of the members of the Way seem to fully believe the stories they tell about the gods and the Chosen Undead. Moreover, they seem to only have part of the story, as the actions of Leroy in protecting Nito from us seems to indicate that either he fully turned his back on the Way or that he was not aware that linking the fire would require us to kill Nito and sees us as having turned against the gods. Of these two, the latter seems more likely to me, as faithful followers would likely be horrified if they knew that the souls of the old gods would need to be sacrificed to link the fire, and so that knowledge wouldn't be shared with any except perhaps the absolute top of the hierarchy. In such a world, it would perhaps be considered an honor and duty for noble families to have their daughters and sons become clerics, and those with more wealth and pull could have their children selected to make pilgrimage to the lands of Lordran themselves. That would seen to be the case for Rhea and her family-chosen personal guards who have known her since a very young age, along with the cleric Petraus who is ordered by his superiors to act as her guide. Petraus, then, would be not speaking as the voice of the church when he mocks her family and her naiveté, but as a bitter and spiteful man who sees the pointlessness of the whole charade and the danger it puts him in. He knows that her family have weight in Thorolund, but that means nothing in Lordran, where he could simply leave them down in the Tomb of the Giants and claim to have lost them and no one would be the wiser. Thus, he avoids the dangers of the deeper areas of the Tomb surrounding Nito, gets petty revenge on the family who were responsible for putting him through this, and has a sad cover story to tell the church which should keep the family from too much suspicion. Hence his need to kill her and close off that loose end, just in case she decides and finds a way to get back and report what he did.
I feel like the biggest problem with this theory is that you can kill the last of the evil gods and start the age of dark yourself and he gets in the way of that too. He doesn't even try and talk you down a different path like Karth.
I think thats cuz he is in love with the goddess, and ending the age of fire is also ending her. He just wants to stop the church from turning humans to undead and making them sacrificial sheeps for gods. He is in a dilema of sorts i think. He asumes that you are brainwashed to link the flames. Even if you as a player dont link some other undead might and thats why he does what he does.
How does he get in the way of that? It’s not like he knows that that’s the path you’re choosing. Why would he assume a random undead would become the dark lord?
What an amazing voice actor. Like..?💡 a moth! Flittering towards a flame.... That sounds as if he literally thought of the analogy in the dot. When he says who would do best with the humanity we obviously think he is implying he wants to take humanity maliciously. When hes actually speaking out of disgust which is a similar tone talking about others.
When Lautrec is imprisoned he is honestly pleading and trying everything he can think of to get out. He begs and offers a reward. You don't understand because his voice sounds menacing so you take it that way.
@@SpaceDisco1 There's a block in certain people where they can't read intent in someone's voice. To someone that never mentally matured past the age of 10, Scary Voice=Mocking. I have never seen anyone say they thought Lautrec was mocking them when he was in the cell.
This was a very fascinating perspective on a much very iconic Souls character. You got me thinking about Lautrec but you also got me thinking more about Humanity. Everyone seemed to want to get a handle on that stuff. I can't imagine it was very prominent during the age of fire proper. You do such amazing deep dives have you ever considered doing a deep look at humanity specifically. It seems like after the war with the dragons but pre the fading the flame it was almost inert or a non-resource and as the flame faded everyone started messing with it all at once. Chaos definitely has its connection to the dark, the fall of Oolacile was due to their sages messing with humanity, some time around or after that Church start making undead to send to Lordran.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
A rebel against the ruling superpower, a controversial man reviled by many to this day, a man not afraid to use violence in the name of resistance.. We hope you enjoyed our take on Lautrec
Support us on Patreon! www.patreon.com/user?u=3372968
May grace guide us all.. ✨
Hawkshaw
So you know that you're *skip to **10:26* is actually Backwards in your video right?
Its 11:40
Do you want to live forever🃏✌️
I think he and Solaire are actually friendly, which would explain why he gives you the sunlight medal and they can both be summoned together for the gargoyles and gaping dragon. Solaire doesn’t fight for the glory of the gods, he fights for himself and his comrades in pursuit of his own glory (sun). So Lautrec respects him.
Or he got it when Solaire helped him. I love Solaire, but I don't think he thinks things through tbh
@@hossdelgado626 Solaire is a himbo in the best way possible
Not so sure thats the case honestly, considering how much Solaire gushes about the gods within 5 minutes of your first encounter with him. Mentions longing to be like them which is why he's seeking the sun to begin with.
Personally I think him handing over the sunlight medal was kind of a mocking gesture, you help him and he gave you something *he* deems entirely worthless. I think he likely used Solaire for assistance at one point (just as he uses you) and then had zero intention of becoming a warrior of sunlight, someone who spends their time helping others, and was picking fun at you for helping him to begin with. Would be easy when he knows his intentions arent favorable.
So kind of comparing you to Solaire in a way, which is to say he's calling you gullible; easily manipulated. Stupid. That aint respect haha.
@@jayneeomeara2872 His equipment is also found next to the sun princess room. Implying some connection to gywnevere or the lie created by gwyndolin. I like to think Lauren thinks of Solaire and dumb or ignorant but sees him as an ally in some way, which makes sense to me, else why would their signs be so close so many times? There are too many fight where they are both there to be coincidence. Is your cup half full or half empty?
Think about the difference between the respective death animations of Ornstein and Smough, and how the survivor reacts towards their fallen companion. I would like to imagine that if Solair and Lautrec had a working relationship, it would mirror the one between Ornstein and Smough.
Lautrec never came off to me as arrogant. When he is in his cell and asks as to free him, he is simply appealing to our self interest. He might be a man too proud to beg us for his freedom, but his willingness to compensate us shows that he is does not view it beneath himself to ask for help.
He's also clever than that. He has absolutely no way of telling what kind of person the player is. Offering a reward to us would satisfy both a selfish and selfless player. A selfish player would be incentivised at the free reward, and a sefless player would open the door regardless, the reward being helping another in need.
So offering a reward would give him the best chance out of his cell
@@Rahnonymous
After all, the player is anonymous. He has to appeal to them in some way or another.
He also helps you in exchange with the Gargoyles and the Dragon
@@MSKXan Well he does manage to escape by himself, its not a big deal for him (if you ring the gargoyle bell he disappears from his cell)
You should have mentioned the theory that Lautrec kills Gwynevere in his world.
He says he has "business up above", so he has something he wants to do in the castle. And when you invade him at Anor Londo, his world seems to be darker than usual.
Plus his armour is found on the balcony above O&S's arena.
I've heard one theory that he was flung by either o&s outside the boss arena and died there
@@tokehn he dies there only if you defeat him in the invasion before O&S.
@@t0caia726 ye that's the confusing part. I would've argued that he killed himself after (probably) killing Geyenevere in his world but I doubt he'd stop his quest right then and there
@@tokehn It's simple: He was hunted down by the Blades of the Darkmoon. If you harm Gwynevere's illusion, then you are a sinner and can be invaded by them. Gwyndolin declares you an enemy.
A interesting touch in the black eye orb invasion is that one of his comrades seems to be one of the three sealers of New Londo.
Maybe this one swore revenge to the gods after finding out that they fooled him to flood a city full of innocent people and so joined Lautrec on his quest.
What do you think about it?
Very plausible idea.
Yeeeessssssss
Taps nose sarcastically.
Makes sense. They also all have spook cast so they must have been sneaking around the place.
That would explain what the third sealer did with his life after the flood.
On the last cutscene it's interesting how suprised and then shocked the undead looks. Casually lighting another bonfire until boom. Once realising the deception they become frozen, staring at their hands. Hawkshaw is a masterclass!
Indeed. The last bonfire you light is yourself.
and the pain, they looked for glory, but we just became another bucket of fuel
He didn't look surprised to me, he looked fulfilled, like he is taking in every moment because this is the end of his journey, so he is savouring it
@@jasonparker2616 perhaps it could be both? as each undead is different you see them react different, where my undead would want to be good and think they were doing what is right, only to be used by the gods and tossed away, while yours feels as though they have done their task, ready for the afterlife for peace.
@@jasonparker2616 I said that because of his dialog: Ahh, it singeth, to the bone, it hurts... Please, help me. Be done with me... No, gods, no, I cannot bear it... It burns, burns, help me..."
(After killing Dragonslayer Armour) "See ye not? I am a lord... A wee flame, belike, but I shoulder the world... Forgive me. Oh please... I am not to blame. I'm not"
it was said by Ludleth of Courland on DS3, he is the only one who describes the burning of the flame.
I think Lautrec wrote this video. And if you believe it, you're exactly the player character he's been waiting for. Let your hero out, chosen undead...
What's your take on the way of white making undead?
But Plague what if you knew from the start Lautrec was right and you were being used but like me every time choose to kick him off the cliff?
I mean he might be a unsung hero but the cliff...THE CLIFF!!
How could I not?
Ah, the primordial furry, heroseeker PlagueOfGripes...you can't keep tempting us with your sweet sweet words
I shan't go hollow!
@@damjanmuskinja9227 ... they didn't though? It's what humans end up as, just the hollowing they face in the lore is caused by Gwyn due to him trying to contain them with a fire seal dark sign deal. It's actual lore in ds3 in the Ringed City Dlc
You know, i think he had fair reason to have an untrusting and gruff tone of voice to the undead. Some chose to not free him from the cell. And have you seen literally EVERYTHING trying to kill you? Of course he's hostile.
Plus depending on the pathing they got screwed by Patches by the time they ran into him.
I accept this more than Lautrec laughing at us, that seemed like a bit of a stretch
@Charles Hastings This as well.
One could argue he's safer locked in the cell for that exact reason lol
One thing i'm surprised wasn't brought up is that one of Lautrec's gank buddies is the 3rd New Londor Sealer. The Sealer who has no mask because the mask is a symbol of loyalty, which has been discarded by said Sealer. So Lautrec actually has a goal noble enough for a Sealer to join his cause, a Sealer who, unlike Ingward, was so disgusted by the gods' order to genocide an entire city, left them due to having better morals. Better. Morals.
I've also always been quite surprised at how regretful his lines portray him as whenever the player does any sort of actions to fight him. The guy offers to help in 2 critical bosses to reach the Bells of Awakening and never invades the player. It seems to point to him genuinely having a high opinion of the player the more they succeed, since we prove ourselves to be above the average undead, and he thinks that we're smarter than we actually are, as ironic as that is. Things point to him accidentally thinking that the player is not the clueless brainwashed tool that we mostly are, having seen through the big lie of the gods, and is surprised to see that we are actually as stupid as the average undead when confronting him. He likely assumed that we got the hint and are on his side, hence his shocking lack of hostility until we instigate a fight, but he's unfortunately wrong and thought too highly of us.
I like this, this is a nice way if seeing into what he may hypothetically be thinking.
So what you're saying is that Lautrec is the Riddler, from the most recent Batman movie? xD
I've always loves Lautrec, was nice to read this comment 😁
Man straight up told us he doesn't expect us to be friends all the way. He already knows we're gonna come after him.
And shut the "better morals" up if said guy with a "noble cause" is willing to murder a defenseless woman.
@@diinouhothead9362 defenseless woman lol, they cut her tongue and imprisoned her, death is a relief to her.
The fact that Anastasia doesn't seem to be too please that she was revived always made me guess that there were more to the story between her and Lautrec, hope this will give me a conclusion.
I think it was more she was displeased that she got her tongue back.
I was none too pleased by missing the firelink shrine bonfire. selfish, but fuck that. not like the player is a hero anyway.
@@ThatGuy-lx4vy yo that bonfire is important. i feel you.
Notice that her actual ambition is to die. Also notice that you can't hit her through the bars, and that her robe is within reach. She helped Lautrec kill her. It isn't a murder, it's an assisted suicide.
@@jonathanreece4151 also Lautrec's weapons of choice are very close range.
And he sits for a very long time and only when you ring the hard to reach bell, does he seem to take action...
He didn't do this mindlessly or ruthlessly... he definitely seems to be weighing the options...
I think npc summons/invasions are telling about their motives as well. Lautrec never invades us. Others' agendas align and malign them with us at different points. Paladin Leeroy for example, he helps us kill Pinwheel but invades and tries to prevent us from reaching Nito.
I've puzzled over Lautrec's motives because he helps us kill the Gargoyles and the Gaping Dragon then seemingly turns against us by killing/stealing our firekeeper. I like this take that he is actually indifferent to us, that disabling our bonfire is nothing personal against us.
To dip outside of DS1 for a moment, I think that DS3 echoes a lot of the same character stories just with new characters and new names. Retellings of the same stories but with new characters. We can use what we see in DS3 to fill in holes in DS1. For example, I think that Irina of Carim in DS3 is a retelling of Reah of Thorolund. Both escorted by trusted knights on a holy pilgrimage. Both fall short and are rescued by the player. Reah says she seeks the Right of Kindling, but in DS3 we see Irina become a Fire Keeper. Therefore, I think seeking the Right of Kindling was a step in Reah's journey to becoming a Fire Keeper.
The analogous character to Lautrec in DS3 is Ringfinger Leonhard. Rather indifferent to the player's journey. Disables a major game mechanic until invading and defeating him with a black eyed orb. Both retreat to the same area. When we look at Leonhard he seems to be trying to preserve or protect the soul he stole. Perhaps this is an echo of Lautrec's motives as well. Perhaps he believes that killing and taking the soul of the tongueless npc is a mercy sparing her from her current position.
The conditions for Lautrec to steal Anastacia's soul are either once the player has opened the path to Anor Londo by ringing both Bells of Awakening. Or after the player has collected the Fire Keeper souls in the Undead Parish and in Blighttown. Perhaps that second condition is not motivated by gameplay but rather lore. If Lautrec sees us collecting Fire Keeper souls perhaps he suspects we'll come for Anastacia's next. He would rather take her soul himself even if the path to Anor Londo is not yet opened rather than let some other undead take it.
He helps us clear a path to Anor Londo because that's where he wants to go. The Gargoyles must be defeated to ring the first bell and the Gaping Dragon bars the path to the second bell. It's not that he wants to help the player on his quest, it's that Lautrec wishes to reach Anor Londo and is indifferent to the player and our quest.
Good thought provoking stuff, as always Hawkshaw :) Thank you!
Solaire helps us in those boss fights not Lautrec
I didn't collect the blighttown fire keeper souls but it still happens
@@dredayug5065 Both Solaire and Lautrec can be summoned for those fights.
Finally! someone understands our boy Lautrec. To add to this theory the Black Eye Orb connects the firekeeper to the truth of a dark empty Anor Londo, so her tongue was removed.
Someone with a lot of followers on youtube*
i just suddenly realized ive seen very little black eye orb analysis
Because lots of followers on TH-cam means you're suuuuuper popular and your opinion is the only right one
@@Cas-ed9ob Say less, he meant that its been talked about before but never by anyone with a sizeable audience
nope, he's evil. The propaganda didn't work on my, actions speak louder than words
When I say this game is a masterpiece, this many years later and we still get content about it.
Well this is the benefit of an ambiguous story it allows people to theorise their own versions of the story and look at it in different ways which makes it more interesting.
Practically everything in the game has some deeper meaning. Not a single thing placed in the game is meaningless, even the rushed and limited parts. I think dark souls actually invented a new form of philosophy.
@@vashdesperado1232 This. The game just took the classic storytelling "show, don't tell" axiom to the next level. It leaves entirely to the player the task of finding and putting the pieces of the puzzle together, and done right it ages like wine.
Happy Holidays! Tis the season for forgiveness...
Let us know if you enjoyed this episode!
Apologies for the spoiler mistake, Skip to 11:45, and 29:08 to avoid them!
Happy Holidays! Are you going to make some videos about other overlooked or missunderstood charakters?
Merry Christmas.
This is off topic a little bit but hawkshaw, what do you think about the painted world in dark souls 3 being a metaphor for FromSoft needing to make new IPs? Burning an old IP (ie dark souls) in order to create a new world (sekiro, elden ring) Your solaire interpretation sort of sparked this idea.
This video was quite good, imo better than the last one, but still there seems to be quite a lot of running in circles
One of the main good things about your videos was that you'd often present evidence from multiple different sources, but this video has a lot of repeated claims replacing that instead
Also the script could have been better written, not just because of the repeats, but your jumping from topic to topic with multiple digressions didn't make much sense to me
Please tell me the songs you chose for this video.
So he's literally the secret protagonist and voice of true unadulterated reason in the game, which is foiled by the game's writing making you believe he's evil based on the assumptions they plant in your mind from the beginning.
There's a reason every game gets compared to Dark Souls, this series is truly a master class in writing and character building.
It feels like nothing else even tries to get close to it at times
@@OMoanaigh I honestly believe it's truly in a class of it's own. There are plenty of games that try to mimic certain gameplay mechanics or replicate the overall aesthetic, but none of them will ever _be_ Dark Souls. It has a flavor unto itself.
It is truly "other".
Absolutely. I see Lautrec as a mirror of the player character. I think there are several like us in the game pursuing all our own goals. Oscar and Solaire for example.
Or the way it tells the story, where the player kind of has to dig for pieces of the puzzle, never knowing which of the last survivors tells the truth. And the link between gameplay & lore that explains why the player can respawn after death was clever. We are used to respawning at a checkpoint in every game and then DS came and made it part of the story. It's unfinished and has some quirks, but it's obvious how much thought was put into so many details.
@@_The_Traveler_ says the guy who never played the ninja Gaiden series
Lautrec was always kind of my favorite NPC, because his armor looks fabulous and he dual-wielded. Plus he was just so mysterious and it felt like he had a plan grander than I could see, and I could never know what it was because I put a stop to it.
I want his armor but I get paranoid about doing his quest line lol and never get the guts to do it
he is very sexy indeed
On this episode of “Gwyn ruined everything” we explain why Lautrec did nothing wrong
I honestly had no clue people thought he was an evil psychopath, I always assumed he was just desperate. I thought that his killings might have had some kind of purpose relating to Fina or something rather than him just wanting to randomly butcher cripples and take their souls.
What Gwyn did is no different than what those trying to usher the Age of Dark are trying to do. If Lautrec does what his weirdo Goddess demands to create the world she wants, how is that any different from Gwyn trying to save everything he loves to the uncaring cycles of nature? Why should the Gods just stand down and fade away? The Dragons didn't just accept their fall, they fought to the very end, they fought to maintain their supremacy.
The core concept of the Souls series is the unending struggle against destiny. Not only for mortals, or the player, but for the very Gods, Demons and everything in-between.
The difference with the Gods is they use everyone else for their own gain. Humans are pawns to them.
Demons don’t use anyone but themselves for their gain.
@@aceclover758Ah, yes. Please tell that to the egg-bearing bastards outside my door.
Seriously, I am a Chaos Servant, but this is ridiculous! Of course we use people for our gain!
@@alyseleem2692 No one tricks or forces you do join the Chaos bois
@@aceclover758 You really think so?
No, really. Our covenant is built upon the worship of Chaos, and in our case, the Fair Lady specifically. The Witch Of Izalith and her children are gods, and every single demon is their creation. The human worshippers are being directly exploited to make more of said demons, sucking out their humanity( each egg is a cradle for a tiny humanity, as is said).
And they are being told to love it.
You know why?
Because it's religion. And it's good for business.
Do you think that, at any point, you were tricked into linking the Fire?
You were told to succeed Lord Gwyn.
Look at Lord Gwyn.
Look at him.
Look closer.
You could've just walked out of the Kiln. No, really. That's the whole Dark Lord ending, except you can do it yourself. You can even just ignore Gwyn and not fight him at all. Just...leave. The moment you saw Gwyn, you either knew what you were getting into, or you were a ###ing idiot.
That is, of course, without mentioning the fact that Gwyn is already commemorated as dead despite you having to succeed him by taking the Flame from his " living" hands. So, of course you were going to look like him.
The only real trick is the framing. Gwynevere sounds nice. Gwyndolin isn't good with people. Gwynevere uses his sister's voice to talk in a way he wouldn't normally be able to.
Speaking of gods tricking people how many gods do you see in Anor Londo?
That's why it ain't no trick. You're here to " prevent further Undead sacrifices". You are the last Undead sacrifice of this specific era. Until the Fire needs more fuel, no one else needs to suffer the whole slew of bull-## you went through as an Undead.
No more chasing Lords. No more kindling bonfires. Everyone would just..chill for a while.
And guess what? They did.
Kingdoms came,prospered and went. The gods were still missing, but few people cared. Everything just kept going, until the Fire weakened again, and Undead started increasing again.
Do you know why Undead are feared?
Do you know what one of us has to do to even look human?
We pick some humanity off a corpse. Preferably, one we killed recently.
Do you know why there's an asylum for us, now?
What is actually an interesting touchpoint for Lautrec and Fina is that the Ring of Favor and Protection is broken upon removal, but you can loot the ring off of Lautrec’s corpse when he dies. This suggests that only if the wearer of the ring removes it (or only if it is removed while the wearer still lives) does the ring break. Could this be an indication that the ring itself is a physical representation of Fina’s champion, such that if her current champion dies, she grants her Favor and Protection to the next potential champion who comes along?
This seems to lend credence to the claim that she has a fickle nature. Though it may also indicate that the duty of her champion is of such importance that it transcends the death of her current champion. I would say these interpretations of Fina are not necessarily mutually exclusive. If this is the case, it might still be justifiable to kill Lautrec and loot the ring, so that you may take on the duty of the freedom fighter for Fina that Lautrec seems to be. If restoring/maintaining the Firelink Shrine bonfire aids you in achieving Fina’s goals of unveiling the deception of the gods, then it seems like it would be acceptable in the eyes of Fina for Lautrec to be killed by the Chosen Undead.
That's something I was thinking about, as well... Fickle isn't usually used to describe someone who changed allegiance just once, that is simply referred to as a betrayal, fickle implies multiple betrayals...
Its the opposite actually. Maybe the fact that the ring can be looted means Lautrec wasn't actually wearing the ring. Because he truely didn't trust her or would give himself to her.
@@Lowlightt he wears her arms on him all day
@@ryanrobot7975 Yes? And? The ring represents commitment and the fact its lootable shows he never committed. He's fake, he projects loyalty and honor but isn't loyal or honorable. So much like the other characters he pretends to be something he is not.
@@Lowlightt or it just comes of when a person dies and becomes an object, like why would he just hold on to it if he's not using it and his hole thing is how much he loves this goddess
He is named the "tragic" embraced knight for a reason in DS3. Not to forget he is accompanied by one of the three New Londo sealers that lost his purpose of protecting the spreading of the Abyss outside of its boundaries. Ingward was the last sealer to have this purpose intact. Maybe the third sealer had also realized the falsity of the gods and the undead curse and sided with him for the same reasons you're suspecting in your video
The third sealer died in blightown trying to help the people there, this is hinted by the set you find there, the key to the ruins of new londo and remedy (which blatantly tells you the sorcery was meant to help ppl from the venom of the place, and that it was created by the sealers or at least used by them).
@@davidcardozo290I never thought he died, since all his belongings are in an intentional place in a chest. Given their value, it would make sense that this is a stash, he may have hung up the robes intentionally. Of course someone could’ve picked it off a corpse and put it there…
I've always liked lautrec. I knew his evil persona was too on the nose to be the whole story.
It always felt like lautrec was teaching instead of being condescending when he speaks to the player character in firelink shrine.
Yeah this is a pretty convincing arguement for him. Well done.
I want to like your comment but I dont want to ruin the funny number
@@phylippezimmermannpaquin2062 i ruined it😊
It's interesting how far you can get through something, not understanding a thing; then suddenly it is revealed to you how much you got wrong
It's also interesting that Hawkshaw made videos about judging the character of Siegmeyer and Domhnall, and then goes to make a video about how misunderstood Lautrec is, and the way he leads every video towards the plot against the gods, and people trust his weird assumptions with little evidence and a lot of conjecture.
@Tasorius Yeah he honestly just seems to make things up and try to turn the narrative into all bad guys are actually good and all good/neutral guys are actually bad. It’s just contrarian garbage for the most part tbh.
@@Tasorius That's the thing with DS lore, it's so interpretative that many people just go "Oh I didn't think of that!" when presented with a well-phrased argument, even if the argument is complete nonsense
@@bajscast Nonsense is fine, but when they present it as pretty much a fact, it becomes a problem for me...
One reason why I like Vaati is that he is humble, and knows that his words are not facts, but interpretations...
Others think more highly of their very much speculative theories...
The Ashen Hollow stands out because I once tried to make him understand that every character in a game is not always speaking canonical truths, but he didn't get it, even when I gave examples of characters saying incompatible things and somehow I was the idiot....
Hawkshaw just likes to vilify good characters, and praise villains...
I wonder when his video about the Dung Eater being a hero comes out, unless it already exists...
I miss the time of "Solaire is the Firstborn"...
@@Tasorius Yeah, I've met a lot of people insisting completely that their interpretation is correct. Recently I got into an argument with some power user on one of the dark souls wikis - who normally had well thought out and reasonable views on things... But insisted, for some reason, that Shira from the ringed city was actually seath's daughter. The evidence? That she says 'I am daughter of the duke'. Doesn't specify which duke and seath is long, long dead, and we don't know if dragons can even have kids, but this one who doesn't have a single draconic feature must actually be half dragon...
Everything in my mind right now is screaming how absurd this idea is, which only makes the eventual video discussion all that much more enticing. I can’t wait. Was I wrong to hate him so, taking exquisite delight in stamping him out each playthrough…?
Same feelings here
I mean.. Surely he had some reason to kill the Firekeeper..? Surely he didn’t do it just to inconvenience a single Undead.. or maybe he did do it, to hamper the _Chosen_ Undead?
I dont get delight out of it. I just want his ring.
@@jooot_6850 chosen seek seek lest.
I mean, all he does is disable ONE bonfire, if anything the undead burg bonfire is more useful
Really appreciate the thorough look at Lautrec. I wanted to include a strange observation I found because I think it's somewhat relevant. In Gnosticism Sophia is considered to be the 'wisdom of God', and the female counterpart of God. Lautrec's armor set says he is 'embraced by Fina' and he frequently speaks about wisdom. In this way he may embraced by the wisdom of Fina, or a Goddess not unlike Sophia, and as a result privy to the fact that the world is being run by the God's for their own purposes. I think it's an interesting parallel. Awesome video.
It's interesting that he has a lot in common with the Darkwraiths, with his whole stealing humanity and opposition to the gods' plan. He seems to be loyal to his goddess and only her, but if she's an ally to the demons, what's in it for them to prevent the linking of the flame?
If you are referring to the demons, they would be protecting the bed of chaos, the soul of which is necessaryto link the flame. I don't think they care much about linking the flame besides that.
To link the flame requires the death of the Witch of Izalith, whom th Demons want to protect.
I absolutely adore the fact that after over 10 years of this game existing there's still lore to unravel and understand.
Glad you're back, the worlds a dark place these days, returning to Lordran here really feels like stumbling upon a bonfire.
I remember a german youtubers saying during his first playthrough of ds1 : "they are not mean.. WE are mean.. WE are the mean one!"
THEY attacked first.
“unbiased wikipedia” wikipedia is incredibly biased, depending on the article and where you look. While other users can correct you should they desire, there’s definitely a group of power users who will override everything to fit a certain narrative.
The most neutral example I can think of is that the English wikipedia page for marijuana and the Swedish one differ greatly. Swedish goes on for paragraphs about how dangerous it; unsurprisingly as it happens, it’s illegal there. The english wiki page has a list of both good and bad effects. The good effects are not listed at all on the swedish one, and attempts to include them will be removed within 24 hours.
I’m not a pot-smoker, but ran into that when doing research and it fascinated me.
That was a joke, I could tell by the inflections and tone of his voice.
Trust me I've heard at least 100 people be sarcastic before
He is a hero
One that has the ring of favor... which favors me in my quest to be the dark lord
After this, he's now my new favorite character. What a brilliant dive into Lautrec. Well done
he's who i'd try and be in that fucked up world
Hello San andreas mr bean.
4:30 NOPE, seeth is absolutely evil, as in lawful evil
he is a dragon that hoards knowledge and kidnaps maidens to experiment on them, you don't get more classical villainous dragon lich than that
This video lost me at that moment lol Seath the scaleless is a jerk.
@@KDP24 fr. And he goes on to eplain how demons are peaceful and we humans just meanie buttheads to them. You can tell he never played DS2.
@@jasonparker2616 Except in dark souls 2 the bed of chaos, the source of demons is already dead, the chaos flame is dying and thus the race is doomed to extinction because of the quest of the chosen undead. Why would any species want to associate peacefully with one that has condemned them to annihilation?
As for seath, why should he care about humans or gods? The only reason he ever worked with them in the first place was to gain something. Even so Seath watched them indiscriminately slaughter every dragon, making an entire race go extinct and not for the last time, Seath was there when Gwyn locked away the the primal humans at the end of time, seath was there when Gwyn used his own daughter as a sacrifice to contain them, why would a creature care about them if they can't even care about one another? To the end human and gods are just as easily expendable as demons and dragons and undead are to our character.
@@anonymousweeb7424 humans can care for one another, wtf are you on? Is sacrificing for the greater good now bad? And demons have always been wrathful, you can tell by the very people who dedicated themselves to the chaos, the chaos did nothing but hurt them, malform them, and drive them insane, and demons spread chaos wherever they go. Good riddance that the chaos is going extinct. Nothing you said about Seath proves he wasn't a dichead psycho
@@jasonparker2616 first humans being capable of caring about one another doesn't discredit the fact they are capable of hurting each other far worse then they are capable of caring about someone. Which was proven at the very beginning of the dark souls time line when humans, decided to basically racially segregate themselves and condemn one half, the half known as humans to be fodder for a supposedly superior race, calling themselves gods, sounds a lot like racism to me, so why exactly would seath care about a species that is racist onto itself anyway?
Second of all the demon's had a pact with Gwyn and his legion after the war, they had there own culture and way of life as evident by the statues of demons, the blacksmithing that was developed after the creation of demons and just the entire architecture of Izalith.
And I suppose your taking Quelana's words as fact that everything touched by the demon's was malformed and drove them insane, except we KNOW that isn't correct since the fair lady is sad not because she became a spider demon but because the eggs she laid died thus preventing the birth of more demons.
Also not insane given how she possess the capacity for compassion for Eingyi, swallowing the blight pus which is what screwed her up in the first place despite quelaag telling her not too, once again proving that they aren't insane, neither is Eingyi whom has a cure for his condition but decides against taking it because of his loyalty to the fair lady.
The fact that no demon wants to converse with you in the entire game, is down to a combination of a language barrier since we know the citizens of Izalith had a language unknown to the chosen undead hence why they need the ring to talk to the fair lady, and the knowledge of what the prophesy of the chosen undead entails, namely killing their creator/mother, hence why they appear in direct opposition to you reaching the bells and becoming the "chosen undead"
As for sacrifices for the greater good, what gives someone the right to decide what is good? Why was it "GOOD" for Gwyn to use his daughter as a trap for the primal man? Why was it "GOOD" to brand an entire people with the dark sign? What is good for one person is not always good for another. And as is, dragons were immortal, requiring no sustenance or having any requirement for anything, yet Gwyn still destroyed them for the sake of his own good.
Is every doctor, nurse, scientist who has experimented on an animal also a psychopath then? Because the only difference for Seath is that the species he is experimenting on has a fighting chance of retaliating. Once again, what is the greater good for one is not the greater good for all. Or would you be satisfied slowly rotting away from what in the case of seath is a birth defect when your life could be saved by experimenting on another creature? A creature which I might add in most cases is part of a charade to see people set ablaze since Seath mainly captures maidens, in particular holy maidens or those with strong ties to Gwyn and Anor Londo such as Dusk?
Goddamn. I'm sold. His dialogue makes a lot more sense in this context, and really if you contemplate the world he exists in, it does add up. Man... how do you do a run of this game being enlightened while still doing all the bullshit messed up things you shouldn't have to do? I don't really want to fight the demons, but I do want to end the age of the gods...
You're killing the demons so that you may gain the power to kill the gods. Maybe you can see it that way. A cruel, power-hungry, utilitarian way of seeing things, but hey, it gets some gods killed so ultimately it does a lot more good than harm. Still, you gotta commit genocide on the demons to commit genocide on the gods.
And therefore you want to let the flame of creation fade so that everything returns to Dark. Most of the gods were gone anyway.
Effectively you just want to punish the last deity who is trying to keep a fading age alive...
@@Tasorius First of all, what does the age of Dark entail for humanity? I think we need to establish that first before we argue for or against it, since it's somewhat ambiguous. Also the one deity that needs to be punished the most is Gwyn. Honestly, I wouldn't even punish the rest. If I knew that they don't want to have dominion over humanity. Gwynevere minded her own business for example. As did Gwyn's first-born.
@@haristheconqueror One thing the age of Dark means is that every human goes back to the hollowed state before the First Flame, and it's the age of Primordial Serpents...
Punished for wanting to save his people at all costs. Even sacrificing himself to the First Flame. He has been punished enough already.
What is your view of Gwyndolin, then?
@@Tasorius The age of Dark is not the age of Ancients though. So I doubt that would happen. The age of Fire and Dark were created after the advent of fire. Humans were hollow before then. But the age of Dark is part of the disparity. I ain't saying something equally as terrible couldn't happen to humanity, like turning into Oolacile monkeys or whatever they are, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't go hollow. Besides, other than somehow returning to the age of Ancients, the only way for humanity to go hollow is for Gwyn to be an asshole and brand them all with the darksign. And I get that he wants to save his people, but humanity never saw them as a threat and they themselves were never any danger to the gods. He is still the domineering aggressor here.
As for Gwyndolin, he is in the same camp as Gwyn, only you could perhaps say he's been conditioned from childhood to want to enslave humanity and view them as inferior("foul heretic, swathed in Dark") He's not much better, I don't think, but he's no Gwyn. I'm actually not sure about how fervently anti-human Gwyndolin is but provided he lets go of his need to control humanity, he's no problem.
This is why I love this channel. I love hearing about video game lore, and most channels have their own takes and theories about how lore works, for the most part their videos feel like surface level readings that put the pieces together for the sake of the narrative. I like that your method comes down to introspection, theory crafting based on actions and parallels rather than words.
When Lautrec is in the cell, I didn’t get the feeling that he was mocking me or being condescending. He sounded like a person who has a goal to accomplish and wishes to just get straight to the point without actually telling you his overall goals.
HAWKSHAW ON LAUTREC my god i'm so happy you're uploading again!! cant wait
0:01 i thought he said “lord shrek”💀
Shout out to that Lautrec TH-cam account.
Lol
Us falling for him for once... Heh.
WOW this joke is terrible 💀💀
I am somewhat late here, unfortunately.
Still, your shoutout is appreciated, truly.
Heh.
@@tripvic7629 your mother
In a series which basically posits that the notions of "good" and "evil" are childish delusions designed to establish and reinforce belief in and, subsequently, obedience to rigid hierarchy it did always seem strange that Lautrec would be so stereotypical a depiction of evil. I would still believe Patches when he comments on him being "completely mad". Though if Lautrec is so consumed by disgust and focused so firmly on his goal then yeah, to someone like Patches he would seem like a psycho.
Yeah…you know, except for serial killers, r*pists, and instigators of genocide. The world is not black and white, but done forget there IS evil in it.
As for Lautrec, I feel he fell into the revolutionary’s folly, where the ends justify ANY means, no matter how cruel or twisted.
Lol Lautrec hates Patches too. He has some voice lines about if he sees him again, he’ll kill him.
Patches’s purpose is to punish others for their greed, and since Lautrec’s desires are so difficult to pin down on the surface, it would make sense for Patches to write him off as simply being psychotic, and for Lautrec to see Patches as a nuisance.
There is one thing that makes me doubt this argument.
And that is, his summon signs. If he actively wants to stop the chosen undead from linking the fire, why leave his signs anywere for help? It makes no sense. Why should he join you to beat monsters when he wants your like to fail
He doesn't want the undead to fail. He wants to end the deception of the undead that keeps the Lords in power. And as he wants to get to Anor Londo in his quest he also has to ring the bells to open Sen's Fortress. So why wouldn't he help fighting the gargoyles & gaping dragon, they're in his way as well.
Lautrec says that he'll repay the favor should he be freed from the Parish. He doesn't help if you collect the Firekeeper Souls from the Parish and Blighttown first, or slay the Gargoyles first. However, should you go after those two Firekeeper Souls first, he pre-emptively kills Anastasia.
"Seathe is a good boy just trying to revive his own race"
Oh do you mean the race which is extinct because of him? 🤔 Stand up guy.
Yeah this guy seems very biased for someone trying to make an unbiased video of lore. Not to mention him saying 'Demons are just ugly ok?! They are in no way evil, humans are just bad >:(" despite the fact DS2 completely debunks that idea.
I did a double take of that, because it just seemed silly.
It just seemed his experiments were made specifically to spite them as a scorned mutant that knew his time was limited while his brothers would outlive him.
He’s a mad scientist fueled by the spite he feels because of his physical limitations. So basically he’s a supervillain.
More like Seath the Skilless
@@jasonparker2616 how does DS2 debunk it? I only just got into Dark Souls (and absolutely love this setting, the lore is so great) so I haven't had a chance to play the sequels yet
@@Baconomics1 in one of the DLCs for DS2, the demons start attacking Eleum Loyce with no reason behind their malevolence, the citizens did literally nothing to them, and they crawl up and start wreaking havoc.
I think you're misunderstanding the word "fickle". It doesn't mean traitorous, it's more like a figure in a position of power changing favourites frequently over minor transgressions.
Fickle means to change opinions and alliegences rather frequently and haphazardly. Someone who can't make up their own mind, someone indecisive.
Now think about the Ring of Favor and protection. Do you keep on permanently? Or do you remove it, but risk breaking it? Do you trade it? Is it worth getting it? Such things to consider with such a "gift".
@@kingdomcome3914
Come home late from a night out with the boys and the girlfriend never wants to see you again.
It's paralleled perfectly in innocently removing the ring briefly to make temporary use of another resulting in it breaking. Many women used to and some still regard removing a wedding ring in public as a form of cheating. Fina sees her devotees as potentially unfaithful romantic partners and is almost literally "clingy" which is represented in her heavy and cumbersome armour that constantly embraces and constricts its wearer. Her favor is a powerful boon, but also a burden because if you spurn it just once- even for a moment- you lose it forever. It is also noteworthy that her fickleness shows in the ring not breaking if it is taken forcibly from its former owner and claimed for oneself.
@@MisterBones2910 That rant aside, there is also another kind of person that the word fickle would apply to. That is, a child; or those with childish behaviors.
Trading away the FaP ring gives you a Rare Ring of Sacrifice, which gives the implication that you're trading away a momentary boon for what seems like a nobler motive. Plus you can take off the ring without penalty.
@@kingdomcome3914
I genuinely can't tell if this is supposed to be a dig or not.
Ignore this otherwise, but in the event it was, "#NotAll" I guess. It's an archetype, not a stereotype of every woman my dude. Don't take shit so seriously.
Holy shit. Lautrec was Snape the entire time.
*"Like a moth flittering toward a flame."*
Two different Knights from Carim say that same line.
There aren't enough sunlight medals in the world to adequately reward you for your work here.
Thank you, yes, sincerly.
Heh...
I’m sorry for kicking you off a cliff so many times…
heh...
heh...
Heh...
Well, well, well... I am afraid at the end of the day, what Lautrec most desperately needed was a good PR department... Your theory holds much, much validity. Thinking about it leaves me no choice but to give it a plausible rating at the utmost least. It appears Lautrec's only issue, silly as it may sound, is that he just sounds bad. Indeed, he may be a murderer, and he may be sending off people to die even more, but they would anyways, he may just be speeding up the process... Truly this new perspective has given me a new oulook on Lautrec... Perhaps I will overlook his murders from now on, each playthrough. The girl may be an innocent victim, but death is a mercy. I will live without the Bonfire.
Now since we are overanalysing stuff here, Lautrec is using very short weapons. But the firekeeper is quite a bit deep within her cage, for her to die to lautrec she had to crawl her way to the bars on her own free will.
What if lautrec didnt just kill her, as he doesnt sit there in Aggression, but just talked to her and convinced her to let him take her life.
No response. She cannot speak.
@@geenoix2357 You just werent charismatic enough. Remember this is the guy who convinced a random knight to release him from his prison.
I always liked Lautrec because he helped with two boss fights which I think meant he was actually a bro and having him and solaire rolling in to a boss fight and beating the brakes off the boss was one of my all time favorite moments playing the game
I wasn't sure about this theory when you first started as "Lautrec the Rebel" idea.
Then you started to explai nand I must say, this is an incredibly well crafted theory that may well be the actual event of DS1, making it all the more tragic to know that he f ailed to break the cicle, given that DS2 and 3 exist.
Holy shit this is amazing! Completely changed my mind about him, and in a way that even seems intentional in the stories writing, not only are the characters brainwashed, so is the player..
Also, theoretically, you can aid Lautrec in his quest by letting the fire keeper die, then letting the flame die in the ending, thus preventing other undead from emerging and re-kindling it
ohhhhhh shit!! this boy dropping knowledge! Now this 💩 makes sense!! always used to do the dark ending once I found out about it & never knew the difference between the two or why it was that way, or what it did to the game.
the one thing i found interesting and matches up with something you brought up multiple times is his arrogance while being captured. him knowing how many "chosen" undead there were and how willing he was to wait for someone else to free him. if we don't free in from his cell, he does indeed still show up at Firelink, albeit a bit later than he would have if we would have freed him.
Haven't watched the video yet, but I always thought of Lautrec as a good man driven to horrendous deeds by his love of Fina.
In his cell, with nothing, his love of Fina remains, her arms still embracing him through his armor set.
Lautrec wants to be the shining knight. He wants to assist the player as a warrior of sunlight, and just when you start to get to know him he tells you "let's not get too friendly now" as a warning, but also seemingly rejecting his own temptation to befriend the player character. He hates Patches because he hides his darker nature, while Lautrec never wanted the Chosen Undead to trust him in the first place. He is resolved to his fate, knowing he likely is going down the wrong path.
Ultimately, he falls to his own vices, as do the other NPCs, and The Chosen Undead as well. We were chosen to succeed Gwyn... by succeeding his sacrifice, not in taking upon his godhood.
Hawkshaw, you are the best DS lore explorer. Nobody comes close to you in terms of quality. Everyone and their mothers knows Vaati. But you are the top when it comes to DS in my opinion. Your content is not repeating itself, you are not doing cheap "TOP" videos, you are looking at facts from the different angles. This video about Lautrec is probably the best one so far. You really turned my view of Lautrec. Thank you for your work and happy Holidays to you too! :)
I swear you've got the most interesting takes on these videos man... Again and again you got me revisiting this game's amazing story.
Away with the seducing voices, THIS is The most exquisite channel for the discerning lore enthusiast!
It's so mind-blowing that this part of Lautrec has been overlooked for so long. When you put his dialogue back to back, it becomes pretty obvious. Kudos!
Ultimately Lautrec's disposition as either Hero or Villain most foul depends on where you stand on a key issue or two; Do you love the Gods and all their works? Would you sacrifice your life for the Greater Good? Or do you hold that Self-Determination is the height of freedom. And as with most things, each persons answer will be different. An excellent video and a thought-provoking one. Thank you
That berserk music always hits different. Good video.
I've always found it interesting that one of his allies appears to be the third sealer of the new londo ruins. In some ways the sealers goals are opposite of this theory, Lautrec trying to prevent the linking of the fire by cutting off a key bonfire while the sealers prevent the spread of the dark by flooding New Londo.
Doesn't the Sealer in New Londo say some of his brothers Abandoned their ways? Or am I misremembering
@@terretsforever The crimson mask mentions two of the three sealers tired of their duty to watch over the seal and prevent it from being reopened.
@@terretsforever The crimson mask mentions two of the three sealers tired of their duty to watch over the seal and prevent it from being reopened.
The sealer was repulsed that the gods made them flood and kill the city. That’s why he’s with Lautrec. The flooding happened in the past. This the present
It is something *very* different to believed someone and to do something and to kept the believe, that it was good thing to do. The Sealer probably understood over time, if not at the time of the flooding, how bad decision it was. I can understand why one of the Sealers become renegade and teamed up with Lautrec.
I am so happy there is a new video - and it's xmas right now, tis a gift.
Oh, looks like you had been uploading new vids - weird I was not notified.
You guys truly make some the most fascinating Dark Souls lore videos. Your arguments are interesting and insightful.
I really appreciate your ability to give us perspective that runs against common conclusions. I never considered Lautrec this way.
Something something "reflective narrative" something something "it's like Spec Ops: The Line in its deconstruction of alleged player agency and reading ability". I always go full tankie and say DS is a critique of ideology: the powers that be demand self-immolation. Power creates the subjectivity of subjects.
What Spec Ops: The Line does in literality, Dark Souls does metaphorically. It tells you: "Hmm... you wanna project your hero fantasy here, don't cha? Go ahead! Oh, wait... maybe you're an arsecap". And I always love an understated insult. Great video, as usual.
"FINA"lly some love for Lautrec. And a deep purpouse! He was already my favorite character even when i was fooled on thinking his goal was get back in Fina's grace!
my man just dropped that berserk 1997 behelit like none was gonna notice
Just wanted to share my thoughts on lautrec coming into the video.
I never held anything against him. I always thought he was simply gathering humanity for his goddess the same way we do for our own covenants. As for why his invasion is outside of gwynevere's room, well I had heard from content creators that fina was exiled by seath so I assumed he needed the lord's vessel in order to reach and kill seath.
Great video as always. It's always fun to see new takes on character stories.
"Lautrec is evil."
Why?
"Because his actions indirectly inconvenienced me once."
How so?
"I had to walk ALL THE WAY to Andre after Blighttown."
You have to do that anyway.
"Then he tried to kill me!"
Oh?
"Yes, when I invaded him he had a gank squad!"
You. Invaded him. Correct?
Omg when you put it like that it makes sense
Let's quickly skip past the bit where he murdered an imprisoned victim, but yeah
The chosen undead is an asshole
@@hugofontes5708 How else would you propose setting her free?
@@craigstege6376 not linking the freaking fire?
@@hugofontes5708 Go watch the video again and watch it past the first 5 minutes this time
Came down here to find Lautrec's official comment...
"...heh."
Lmao I can't forgot the text box just saying "dead" after the fire keeper is assassinated. It's so funny to me.
I would like to point out one of the members of Lautrecs party is what appears to be a sealer from New Londo, a place the gods flooded because they feared humanity.
Not sure the relevance but the fact it is there seems purposful to me.
Im very happy with these newest uploads
friendship ended with sunbro, lautrec is my best soulsfriend now
This video is the one of the most revealed and deserved to watch and "final episode" to watch
This is too good, thank you
while i do not let lortreck get away with his shenanigans, but i was roleplaying as a humbler kinda of guy, and liked lortreck from his rescue scene, he seems confident, even in bad situations, in a mad world his way of acting seems fair
Lautrec was always my favorite character and now you made me like him even more.
I never connected it before but it makes sense that one of the New Londo sealers would be allied with Lautrec, considering the flood was probably one of the most horrifying acts done to preserve the fruitfulness of the church.
Well yeah that and the darkwraith's that were going around murdering potentially thousands of innocent humans and gods.
@@hatefulgaming1800 I guess it would depend on what you mean by innocent, as this video pointed out that most of the characters are complicit to the system. The implied horrors of this game are certainly artisanal and generative, but there's something different about the reality of those wet clumps of carcasses that huddle the corners; the lives that have been taken in the name of lords isn't abstracted anymore.
@@rustyguacamole That was all because of Kaathe spreading the abyss again.
Now I want a game about Fina's followers as protagonists and Lautrec as a martyr.
Subscribing to this chanel, only because of this video: changing the perspective of Dark Souls in the way it was intended at the ending of 2021... What a great game, and a fantastic community.
Dark Souls community: "Not eveything is as it seems!"
Also Dark Souls community: "Lautrec is just a plain bastard."
Thanks for sharing this very compelling argument.
Woah.
New subscription gained.
I also would like to point out your analysis has opened my eyes to a new perspective of Lautrec, as well as character diving as an entire whole.
You truly are remarkable.
I never had any ill will or dislike for Lautrec and never understood the bad rep that he gets from players because he is literally me and every other souls player.
He's just like me fr
Another point too is when you revive the firekeeper she is uspet that she has failed and will be shunned for it....maybe he was trying to help but why not just tell us that it is a lie and ask for our help instead of trying to kill others to slow us down
I always wanted to understand him, He's one of my favorite ds1 characters, just because I don't know whats going on in his head, i don't believe anyone is just evil. especially in miyazakis games. he's too much of a storyteller
Major misinterpretation of the Xanthous Crown > FaP Ring connection. We know the Xanthous King had some connection to the Witch of Izalith, because the bug creature in Blighttown shaped similarly to the Crown is called the Xanthous Prince. Jeremiah probably accepted a similar parasite onto his head as a follower of the Witch of Izalith, and his being "embraced" by such a God (especially one who then ran afoul of Gwyn) is what connects Jeremiah to Lautrec. I don't think there's any concrete connection between Jeremiah and Fina anywhere in the game, and Snuggly's 'connections' are mostly tongue-in-cheek.
That is some high end dark souls lore video
I love the fact that after so many years and after so many lore vidoes from multiple channels, Dark Souls lore is being discussed and viewed from a new scope!
I watch this vid at least once a month. Hawkshaw, your method of storytelling is superb and it truly makes my day each time I tune in. Thank you for your content. It brings my life so much joy.
Thank you for playing Conan music in the background.
This is a very entertaining alternate take.
That being said, Lautrc's downright creepy comment about a 'nubile cleric' as well as the fact he seems to relish in collecting humanity makes me feel that he's honestly just an indifferent, selfish undead.
He represents, lore wise, the invader who murders in cold blood to get his humanity, at the cost of another undead. The undead who WILL help someone out, but only to get humanity back for it. And he will only help if a Warrior of Sunlight is there to make most of the effort.
He even throws away the Sunlight Medal because he sees no use for such a symbol. Jolly cooperation? Pah. He merely wants humanity.
Like the video says, he represents the experienced and lore-savvy veteran player. After we've done so many playthroughs we too become jaded and impersonal, cold and seemingly cruel. We kill NPCs as we see fit to stop character questlines where we like them to end, skipping NPCs we could easily rescue if we took but a minute or two to detour simply because we don't care for them and don't need them for our build, murder others for a novelty foreign sword we may or may not even use, getting some low-level invading done for the fun of it, and even picking the dark ending because we know that in light of all the evidence it's popularly viewed as the "correct" and maybe even "good" end. It's not our first rodeo or Lautrec's; that much is clear just by the fact that he knows to leave Crestfallen alone.
Hell, we even rescue him and carelessly kick him off a cliff ten minutes later because we like his jewelry; scarcely better than our trusty, mild-mannered and unbreakable friend- the amnesiac spider with a laugh like a hyena. You might argue you had a reason to kill Lautrec, (protecting the Firekeeper) and I can almost hear Patches' sneering reply. After all, Patches has his reasons too; he hates clerics and those who aid them. The shiny trinkets- he'd argue with your own logic- are just a bonus for his exemplary public service you see.
...and on the point about Lautrec's "nubile cleric" line, how many "Amazing chest ahead," "Try thrusting," and "Tongue, but hole" guidance messages do you see per playthrough? What about all the player ghosts doing emotes under Priscilla's tail and "dress?" Lautrec is a Souls shitposter just like the rest of us.
@@MisterBones2910 I guess that's one way to interpret it, but in the context of the world, he is a complete asshole. I don't do NPC skips when I do serious playthroughs, myself
The way I see it, Lautrec plays the way we do because he does not care about the world. Others play the way they do because they don't care, too, sure, but it's also because they know they're playing a game.
Lautrec does not. Lautrec sees Lordran as a real place, and he is a real person with real consequences tied to his actions.
@@MisterBones2910 this is such a good interpretation, thank you for the great write up
to add another comparison: Lautrec is very jaded, as you've described. Underneath it all though, he's got a soft spot, still devoted to his beloved Fina.
This is basically just like all the veteran players who shamelessly murderhobo all of Lordran but still adore Solaire, enthusiastically participate in JOLLY COOPERATION, and will save him every playthough
Lautrec just became my favorite dark souls character .
Fantastic work, and a long-overdue dive into the complexities of Lautrec! Very much appreciated, would love to hear more of your insights on the world. Will certainly catch up on the previous video, and keep an eye out for future ones!
One note on Rhea-- I think you may have gotten it backwards in regards to her value to the church, both in her use and her family connections. While it's not clearly explained or contextualized in the story openly, what we've seen of the Way of White and the brainwashing of the handmaidens and firekeepers seems to indicate that many or most of the members of the Way seem to fully believe the stories they tell about the gods and the Chosen Undead. Moreover, they seem to only have part of the story, as the actions of Leroy in protecting Nito from us seems to indicate that either he fully turned his back on the Way or that he was not aware that linking the fire would require us to kill Nito and sees us as having turned against the gods. Of these two, the latter seems more likely to me, as faithful followers would likely be horrified if they knew that the souls of the old gods would need to be sacrificed to link the fire, and so that knowledge wouldn't be shared with any except perhaps the absolute top of the hierarchy. In such a world, it would perhaps be considered an honor and duty for noble families to have their daughters and sons become clerics, and those with more wealth and pull could have their children selected to make pilgrimage to the lands of Lordran themselves. That would seen to be the case for Rhea and her family-chosen personal guards who have known her since a very young age, along with the cleric Petraus who is ordered by his superiors to act as her guide. Petraus, then, would be not speaking as the voice of the church when he mocks her family and her naiveté, but as a bitter and spiteful man who sees the pointlessness of the whole charade and the danger it puts him in. He knows that her family have weight in Thorolund, but that means nothing in Lordran, where he could simply leave them down in the Tomb of the Giants and claim to have lost them and no one would be the wiser. Thus, he avoids the dangers of the deeper areas of the Tomb surrounding Nito, gets petty revenge on the family who were responsible for putting him through this, and has a sad cover story to tell the church which should keep the family from too much suspicion. Hence his need to kill her and close off that loose end, just in case she decides and finds a way to get back and report what he did.
Do I hear Poledouris' Conan The Barbarian soundtrack lurking back there? Good on you, Hawkshaw!
I feel like the biggest problem with this theory is that you can kill the last of the evil gods and start the age of dark yourself and he gets in the way of that too. He doesn't even try and talk you down a different path like Karth.
I think thats cuz he is in love with the goddess, and ending the age of fire is also ending her. He just wants to stop the church from turning humans to undead and making them sacrificial sheeps for gods. He is in a dilema of sorts i think. He asumes that you are brainwashed to link the flames. Even if you as a player dont link some other undead might and thats why he does what he does.
Yeah this theory relies on a lot of reaching and assumptions rather than actual evidence.
How does he get in the way of that? It’s not like he knows that that’s the path you’re choosing. Why would he assume a random undead would become the dark lord?
Who are you calling evil? If it's Gwyndolin then I hate you.
@charleshastings7260 He is neither. Don't insult him.
What an amazing voice actor. Like..?💡 a moth! Flittering towards a flame....
That sounds as if he literally thought of the analogy in the dot.
When he says who would do best with the humanity we obviously think he is implying he wants to take humanity maliciously. When hes actually speaking out of disgust which is a similar tone talking about others.
Not all successful rebels are loved by the public
Good to see you're still making videos.
When Lautrec is imprisoned he is honestly pleading and trying everything he can think of to get out. He begs and offers a reward. You don't understand because his voice sounds menacing so you take it that way.
Yeah, I don‘t understand that part.
In what way exactly is he mocking us?
@@SpaceDisco1 There's a block in certain people where they can't read intent in someone's voice. To someone that never mentally matured past the age of 10, Scary Voice=Mocking. I have never seen anyone say they thought Lautrec was mocking them when he was in the cell.
this is awesome. thanks for the holiday gift, wasnt expecting this
This is the most interesting lore video(s) I’ve seen since I can’t remember when. Fantastic job, as always!
This was a very fascinating perspective on a much very iconic Souls character. You got me thinking about Lautrec but you also got me thinking more about Humanity. Everyone seemed to want to get a handle on that stuff. I can't imagine it was very prominent during the age of fire proper. You do such amazing deep dives have you ever considered doing a deep look at humanity specifically. It seems like after the war with the dragons but pre the fading the flame it was almost inert or a non-resource and as the flame faded everyone started messing with it all at once. Chaos definitely has its connection to the dark, the fall of Oolacile was due to their sages messing with humanity, some time around or after that Church start making undead to send to Lordran.
The conan soundtrack really is a masterpiece all its own. Very good choice of music in the beginning!
woah you are too soon! christmas is supposed to be tomorrow :O
holy shit, I´m so happy to see this video pop up in my feed