That reminds me of something The threat in the movie is so immaturely absurd that it becomes non existent A trillion death stars will blow up the galaxy And a planet being destroyed feels like nothing, it's insignificant
@@NyJoanzy they brought back Palpatine, there was literally nothing too far for them. Wouldn't have been surprised that jar jar Bink was Palpatine in a plot twist
Same I kept watching the clips of video in the background and I just couldn't place any of it. They really did want us to forget about what just happened in the previous scene so the present one will make sense.
@@jonathaneckersall2939 I think it was summed up best when referred to as “Star Wars - Stuff Happens” it’s really just a compilation of people running around a lot.
I had fallen in love of the scavenger Rey. Can you imagine someone who could make force sensitive machines? But no, they had to turn her into Chuck Yeager and later into El Zorro. From there it went down. I have the scavenger action figure, the only good thing about the film.
I think the lease for the farm property was still under Lars and Skywalker, and so get around squatting she just took the property over....later on realising there was about 2 million owed in back rent
I'm sure I've seen The Rise of Skywalker, but it must have been so unmemorable that halfway through this video I seriously questioned if I had seen the movie
I think I remember hearing that Lucas liked to have people riding beasts in every star wars movie. I don't know why, and I can't find it quoted anywhere online, but I guess they couldn't find a better way to incorporate that into the movie than having horses galloping on the side of a star destroyer.
“Rey buries Luke and Leia‘s light sabers for all eternity at the one place Luke couldn’t wait to get away from, in the one material that the guy who built it couldn’t stand.” LOVE IT.
Would've made more sense to bury them on Naboo with their mother Padme. But if Anakin couldn't have the same luxury, guess the kids couldn't either. 🤷🏻♂️
To me it felt like the entire sequel trilogy was a high school project that started with passion, and ended with deadlines, confusion, and a "just get it finished" mindset.
reguardless of media and Disney lies the story has gone of the rails and cliff with TLJ,. it was not a salvageable project at that point. Solo movie not that bad, not good ether but most fans were still pissed many never came back.
@@129das yeah the only good movie in my opinion was Rogue. It was a darker story and everyone died. That's how you tell a compelling story. Not with some overpowered Mary Sue that never trained a day in her life and is somehow more powerful than all previous jedi masters that lived.
@@lunarvision Rey would have been a fantastic character had Disney not given her the "Ermagherd can literally do any and everything with no actual effort cuz woman" trope.
Ya & I wanna say the first line of this video "Bad Movies aren't made on purpose" is wrong, because Ruin Johnson actually set out to make a bad Star Wars movie to kill the franchise.
It's not only coherent but kinda follows the already established lore within the Star Wars universe (mostly legends tbf), which would've instantly made the film 10 times better. What we ended up with is basically the foot notes of what was originally intended but instead nothing is ever explained or justified ("Somehow Palpatine returned" as an example) and the movie just feels soulless and hollow. As if they literally just went from plot point to plot point with absolutely no clue how or what they were supposed to do in the meantime.
They just got so scared that they decided to dedicate a whole film to destroy what they were building and go "see guys we did all you asked please like our movie"
Remember in Jedi when 3P0 said "it's against my programming to impersonate a deity-" and Luke said "just do it!" and 3P0 did it without having his brain wiped? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Ehh, not really comparable. Threepio had no idea what Luke meant when Luke said, “Tell them you’ll use your magic…” His protest at that point wasn’t “It’s against my programming” - it was (verbatim) “What magic?!”
@@EpicJoshua314 I know, and I think that wasn’t good either, only reason I don’t hate that novel was the execution, but that is a good point to make in response to my argument so thank you!
Palp could have come back in a better way. Maybe we find out that Snoke was just a fake projection of Palpatine and also that Palp is responsible for Luke and Kylo Ren having their disagreement. Maybe Palp put a vision of fear in Luke and he had his PTSD breakdown.
@@HAFBeast91 or that Snoke was his Starkiller Equivalent, Palp trained him to kill Vader should he turn and then after he died he did the sith possession thing, and just like that (and using their very weird point about Palpy being a ghost possessing Rey) I’ve made a much better reason for something stupid to happen
@@EpicJoshua314 Dark Empire at least respects Anakin by letting him part of the story as a force ghost, who is Luke's moral compass at times (who struggles to fall to the dark side in his studies to defeat Palpatine) and finally being the key of defeating Palpatine forever. Luke could only destroy him physically, its Anakin who sealed him in away in the Afterlife after that in a great display of father & son teamwork.
It's funny how the movie went from having a ton of interesting ideas to almost using none of them. The movie reeks of too much interference by too many people instead of letting one person control the overall story. It seems like there were too many people saying, no don't do that which left it with little direction it could go.
@@breastfeedittoyou1548 Hilariously, that might have been one of the weaknesses of the prequels as well. Lucas is a great ideas guy, but in the OT he had a lot of very capable people around him who shot him down when his ideas got too 'out there'. I mean, Harrison Ford and Carrier Fisher would just tell Lucas to his face when they thought his dialogue was bad and dumb. While poor Ahmed Best got dragged along by Lucas turning his silly on set skit for Jar Jar into the characters entire personality. Don't get me wrong, I think everyone has softened on the prequels over the intervening years, but lets not forget that they still have huge flaws.
@@Bustermachine It's just nostalgia. I will admit the prequels dialogue as cheese but I still love them. For that matter I love the original trilogy and there is plenty of cheese and overacting in those especially from Luke.
It sounds like the movie REALLY needed an additional year of development. Disney needed to realize it'd be healthier for the franchise to not enforce such unreasonable deadlines even if it hurt their shortterm revenue.
Legit half the problems with this movies plot comes down to trying to maintain the original drafts beats but trying to put a square peg in a round hole I kinda feel bad now
It was never going to be better than the originals or the prequals simply because the original creator wasnt involved. It's basically a high budget fan fiction movie.
@@BoleDaPole I don't agree with that at all. Tons of excellent Star Wars stories have been told without the direct involvement of the creator. Most of the EU was exactly that. At most, there were things Lucas rubber stamped with his seal of approval after they were created or when they were in the process of being made by others.
Well the original script was bad as well, but the circumstances being that if followed the first two movies it's as good as we were gonna get, I believe.
@@BoleDaPole I would argue that JJ thinking "true Star Wars is A New Hope and Empire, screw the prequels" and Rian thinking "the fans hate not being able to moving past A New Hope and Empire" doomed whatever trilogy they tried to make. The Force Awakens have no references to the Prequels and The Last Jedi ends up retreading the ground the prequels already covered while breaking the characters in the process.
these movies betrayed me too my core they destroyed han luke leia chewie lando and more they even made this frenchise oke it was already woke before disney even bought it i can name charecters in the old eu way better than rey and yes these charecters are way better than both rey and ben solo plus rey is not a true skywalker in the sequel trilogy they killed off han luke leia including their very own son ben solo why kill off a charecter after that said charecter gets redeemed and brought back to the light
what a gorgeous trainwreck. every time i look at footage from the movie divorced from context i’m like “man this looks nice. i wish the movie was good”
@@quanicle101 That's a respectable stance. My sister agrees. She's happy to let it end with the first 2 or 3 movies. I didn't mind the prequels too much. I'm one of the very few people who actually liked the midichlorians thing.
@@magicalglitch8801 i can see how some people might like the the idea of making someone’s force abilities something that’s measurable. but i personally preferred the ESB explanation of the force where it’s more metaphysical and less about how many magical bugs you have living in your bloodstream
I think the main problem is that they had all these cool shots they wanted in the movie, but rather then giving some of them up to better the plot, they twisted the plot to get those shots into the film.
the writing advice "kill your darlings" would have really helped here. sometimes you need to get rid of the things you love in most for the sake of the overall story.
In their defense/ to play Devil's advocate, when doing Star Wars you can't really be too sure if the replacement shot you'll be creating instead of your dream shot is going to be any easier to produce, and the low price of "Have horses in makeup run 20ft on a soundstage" looks really good on the producer's budget list.
Not just shots, but also characters and scenes. And despite this tendency to hold onto story elements through multiple drafts of the script, Finn's story was the one they ended up cutting the most.
I can't get over it that someone at Disney thought that the fans would hate seeing Coruscant and especially the Jedi Temple after all those decades ... This absolutely proves, that no one at Disney (at least in this triology) knows anything about Star Wars lore
The idea of it being a crypt world is also really interesting. Could play into the idea that only the upper parts of the planet were evacuated and the rest of the dark underbelly is still there, becoming a mix of nar shadaa and korriban
Also it would've been a massive call back to Star Wars Rebels. Heck he could have been related to Zare Leonis, which would've been LEGENDARY. He could've been a descendant of Leonis's sister, now THAT would have been awesome (and tragic tbf)
@@ObeseChess I wouldn't say that. I watched a read through of the script and while it has good concepts its still not good. In this video he only really hits on the best aspects of the script and avoids the dumb parts.
I'd argue that "somehow, Palpatine has returned" also undermines the ending, because... if he could come back from death once, he could do it again? What is it that makes this death so final when getting chucked into an exploding reactor core didn't do him in permanently? Say what you want about Dark Empire, but it at least gave an explanation for HOW Palpatine returned, and WHY his death at the end of that storyline would be permanent.
Of all the issues I have with this film (and there are many) this is one of the most fundamental for me, and I feel like I’ve talked about this in the same way you describe it here. I’m not familiar with the Dark Empire stories, what’s the explanation they give there?
@@kylemaw988 So, a lot of this will sound familiar, because Rise of Scubwalker cribs shamelessly from Dark Empire, despite Dark Empire having been decried by Sequel-defenders as a story so bad it justified rebooting the post-Return of the Jedi setting. So, Palpatine in Dark Empire had set up a cloning program in case of his own untimely demise. When he dies, he just possesses one of his young clone bodies. BUT! The clones are not capable of housing him permanently; sooner or later, they burn themselves out, forcing him to repeat the process. So he hits upon the idea of possessing the body of one of Leia and Han's children - they're all Force sensitive, and so should be able to handle the strain. Of course, this plan fails, because a Jedi named Empatojayos Brand gets in front of Palpatine as he tries to make the transition between his final clone body and the infant Anakin Solo. Taken directly from Wookiepedia: "Brand grasped Palpatine's spirit and took it prisoner within himself. Being eaten alive by the darkness within him, Brand sensed the despair and anger within Palpatine as he died. Palpatine spoke through the Jedi one last time before he died, cursing the Skywalker bloodline. Brand bade farewell and died, carrying Palpatine's spirit with him to be held prisoner for eternity by every Jedi who had become one with the Force, never to be resurrected again." So basically, that "And I am alll the Jedi!" stuff at the end of TRoS? Imagine that, but actually decent.
Yeah, I'd completely disagree with him that it doesn't matter how Palpatine returned. It absolutely matters to make the conclusion of the story mean anything. What's different about this death? Not that anyone really cares about future Star Wars movies after the sequel trilogy. But in theory it'd be good to explain how the villain is back so we can be sure he's not coming back again.
@@Flaris I mean it's fairly obviously he had a parachute under his robe at the end of ROTJ. We know that space has air based on General Grievous's "clothes" moving as he walks along the outside of the ship in episode 3, so it's entirely plausible that Palpatine paraglided to another planet.
One of the things about the sequel trilogy that really let me down but I hear virtually no commentary on is how they abandoned the cinematic language of the Kurosawa inspired original trilogy. For instance, there was time lapse, flashback, slow motion and a ton of other cinematic techniques that were not present in the originals. The cinematic language of the og trilogy was such an integral part of its identity, the screen wipes and cowboy frames. Sticking to that toolkit is part of what really makes you feel like you are watching a Star Wars movie. When you add a bunch of new things then it loses that specific identity and you feel like you could be watching anything-a Nolan film or something.
The fact that literally every other Disney Star Wars product (Mandalorian, Book of Boba, Bad Batch, etc) uses the screen-wipes and other OT techniques makes the sequel trilogy more foreign from OG Star Wars
I mean the biggest part of The Last Jedi is the Rashomon retelling of Luke’s story, which is directly pulled from the titular Rashomon, a Kurosawa movie. TLJ also had a fair amount of screen wipes and references to media that isn’t Star Wars. The Abrams ones went away from it but it’s not a sequel trilogy problem.
I get what youre saying here but that seems unnecessarily restrictive. Sure, Lucas drew heavily from Kurosawa but he also loves Ozu. Movie Serials and old westerns were hugely influential along with WW2 Fighter Plane picturesļ Lots went into the look of star wars. Tbh the guy who best understood and replicated that was Rian Johnson, who looked heavily at a wide array of international films and allowed their influence to settle in
@@Riley-nq3tc For real, Rian Johnson understood Star Wars way better than JJ... unfortunately, he want too farnon a few places. He definitely needed some other guy to remind him not to sniff his own farts
I think the most important line here is the last few sentences: "People forget that making movies take time." - but it is not the audience which should be reminded, it's the producers and the film studios. Looking at the time table in 2017 should have raised red flags all over the place. It is so sad that the inability or unwillingness to shift the release further back into the year 2020, brought us this thing.
That for me is the big take away from this video. I'm not as angry towards the creators botching the final chapter and more so understanding that this film was given a heavy load that was not going to be easy to sort out. Especially with the time they had and that condensing the film and bending the script to the point of breaking was something that was forced rather than consciously done.
@@marcsoren7 or they have everything, effectively, ready to go from day one and get most of the work out of the way before the first movie even hits theatres, like how Lord of the Rings was filmed
I think the fundamental problem with the sequel trilogy is that it can't justify it's own existence. It tries to "complete" a saga that was already finished by George Lucas in 2005. Together, the PT and OT are the story of Anakin Skywalker, with a clear narrative/theme. The sequels were "studio movies" created with the IP in mind first, and a story (if you can even call it that) later, mostly meant to sell merchandise and cashout on nostalgia.
You're exactly right. It's clear that the story of the first 6 movies was about Anakin primarily, and once he dies in ROTJ that is done. They should have made this new trilogy totally differently but wanted to cash in on cheap nostalgia to guarantee audiences would show up saying "member stah wahs!"
Absolutely so. I dont undrstand why everyone hates sequels... let them play with the IP, let them create more jobs for the VFX companies, bring in more taxes, etc. none of this undoes the originals and the impact they had on the culture.
The fact that Finn rallying former stormtroopers to the resistance wasn’t used is so painful. Would have been a huge moment for his character and brought him full circle, instead of him unfortunately just being along for the ride in the other movies
remember black people don't sell in China and China is Disney's number one market for films.....can't have that pesky Finn doing anything center stage : /
@@DeathSithe92 What are you talking about? Gay people don't sell in China (and not so much for culture but straight up government censorship) Black people are fine...?
18:35 Wow I can’t believe someone on the main production team managed to completely misunderstand what the prophecy said. Not once did it denote that a Skywalker would balance the force, only The Chosen One, it’s actually incredible that they botched that up and that’s what drove the writing to Rey taking the Skywalker name, unbelievable.
If it had said Skywalker specifically, the Jedi council would look even more stupid for refusing to train Anakin at first. Not only does the boy have the most powerful force potential of any being in the galaxy, but he also has the exact name of the chosen one! How can you look at this kid and say “nah, it’s okay, we don’t need him”.
Rey, identity theft is a really serious problem. Especially stealing from dead people who can come back as force ghosts and see the theft happening in real-time.
They might as well have been right though, the skywalkers were the chosen ones, or at least the ones best suited to save the galaxy. Extremely strong, anakin was created by the force. Not sure if he was created to bring balance or if he is literally just the force balancing itself like an equal/opposite reaction to the dark side meddling but yeah. Rey wanting to take up the mantle of skywalker makes sense, and I might have liked it if Palpatine's defeat made sense and the movies were good and had more setup for this.
And forgetting entirely the themes that those ideas were created to support. So they got a series of superficial set pieces that looked good in isolation but told a garbage story when strung together. And why did the trilogy have to be bound together by Palpatine anyway. It could just as easily have connected to the prequels through the prophecy of the chosen one.
@@jofujino When I left the theater my impression was that it had a lot of cool scenes, but nothing to connect them. Just a lot of 'and this is happening now'
@@cameronwilsey9334 Yeah it was sensory bombardment. I couldn't even tell if I liked it or not after seeing it the first time because I was so mentally drained. All I could remember about it was the ending, too.
I still don’t understand how Rey knew how to sail a boat, in rough waters nonetheless, as we all know: she’s been on a sand bucket planet all her life. Was sailing included in her Jedi training or somethin’? Lmao
She's just a genius who knows how to do everything. That's the problem with her as a character. She has no faults, she's great at everything from the very start.
@@marvinmuller1085 but that can be explained through her salvaging giving her some knowledge of how spaceship parts work. And maybe she’s flown smaller ships around the planet before. But…a sea vessel? No way there would even be parts for that on a desert
@@violetlavi2207 You can explain away some stuff, but other stuff like her being able to defeat the antagonist of the 1st film in a light saber duel despite having never even seen one before, you can't. The Jr. protagonist in the 1st prequel an 1st OT didn't even battle. I think some of these issues arose out of the politics they were selling with the movie. The movie had a really strong focus on 'the culture war' and leftist messages, and I think that lead to some questionable decisions - like the above mentioned protagonist beating the antagonist in the first battle, with no training. The problem is if they have the antagonist initially win, like they should in any typical story arch, they risk backlash from the people in it for the politics.
Not concluding Episode IX on Coruscant was a questionable choice considering that the Tatooine ending as produced only matters to audiences, not the characters, as Coruscant should have. And not letting Finn develop towards the trooper rebellion - a great and organic idea - is beyond reason.
JJ had a problem separating the characters from the audience since TFA, you could practically hear Rey saying “you’re Han Solo, from Star Wars (1977)!”
@nykcarnsew2238 he had also problems creating original characters, original planets, and original situations. And also following up on events of the previous movies, just retconing everything into whatever without setup. BB-8 is most likely a creation from the VFX team.
I had forgotten most of the movie, so hearing him retell the plot as originally intended made me wonder why I didn’t enjoy it and I almost went back to rewatch it… Then, yeah. That was the original story, not what we got. I feel cheated.
Every time they took the story apart, they put it back together a little worse than it was before. And at the same time they continued to hold on to story elements that no longer served their original purpose.
Oof. I'm an amateur writer, and I know from unfortunate experience that "this image/scene is too cool, I don't want to cut it!" NEVER ends well. Hearing that sentiment pop up so often in this video explains a lot.
@christopherverhoef9112 I've been published since 2014 and I still have that problem. While proofreading I'll find myself not wanting to cut content that I think is cool. So I try to find a way to make it relevant to varied degrees of success.
It could absolutely end well if done the exact way they didn't do... have a clear direction for the entire trilogy from start to finish. You know... a PLAN? Instead, they split the movies up with different writers and directors. Imagine Dune was only the first three books... now imagine if the second book was written by Stephen King. Disney, in its hubris, made all the wrong moves. They're like a spoiled brat that pays tons of money for an endangered animal, abuses it til it dies, then goes back to abusing the wait staff. If JJ couldn't stay for a full Trilogy, he should have at least worked closely with Rian Johnson, but would that really have worked? And sadly, that original script for episode 9 sounded good. It just needed the same guy writing for episode 8, at least. Even with JJ leaving after episode 7, 8 could have done a lot in tandem with 9 to make that script functional AND satisfying with the exception of the First Order being so powerful so soon after the fall of the Empire. Really, if Disney didn't scrap the EU, people probably would have been fine; again with the hubris, erasing over two decades of beloved material that only the craziest of fans even read was a silly route to take, and it was all so they didn't have to pay more money... despite dumping four billion dollars on Lucas's lap.
That level of maturity is expected. Disney needed to shove out movies to make out for their multibillion dollar purchase, so they assembled a quick and dumb team who wouldn't be scared of the Star Wars brand (Rian Johnson, for example.)
The Rage Against the Machine track at 44:32, then adjusting the audio at 44:38 to appear as if it's through (Ren's) headphones is funny and brilliant. Too bad this manufactured sequence wasn't in the actual movie, which would have made it a million times better.
@@brannonkirkhuang I grew up on Star Wars. I was nine when I saw the first movie. Since, someone, somewhere asked themselves, "how can I utterly, spectacularly ruin the childhood of millions in the span of a two-hour movie?" TROS is the tragic, insulting, money-grubbing result.
@@JimHamiltonIII I actually really enjoy episode nine! I just take it for the fun, stupid ride it is. I feel like all Star Wars films are fun and stupid in their own way. That said, I re-watched the scene from this video of Kylo walking with that song playing in his helmet like ten times 😭😭😭
I was like half dissociated watching this because I'm pulling an all nighter, so when his tone shifted making fun of Kylo's emo moment, smash cutting to the uncensored needle drop of Killing In The Name Of's ending... I *howled* with laughter. And then laughed until I cried when the audio changed to sound like he was pummeling his ears with it the Sonic force of a Death Star, to the confusion of his troops. 10/10 gag, no notes.
Personally, I always thought that Palpatine's story about creating life (and the preserving as well for that matter) was a massive lie, specifically done to manipulate Anakin to the Dark Side, and I like that George Lucas left it ambiguous and an exercise to the audience.
Same. I never liked that. To be honest even as a kid I was never super into Leah being Luke’s sister, seemed awfully convenient to me. So having palpatine be the grandad really would’ve been pushing it for me.
@@iwritechecksatthegrocerystore As far as I know, from some old articles I remember reading about crafting the first trilogy, originally Leia was not Luke's sister - that's why that kiss exists - but Luke was supposed to have a sister, and she was going to be somebody Luke would be searching for in some later movie. But Lucas' divorce and some other things made him decide to make a trilogy, at least then, not anything longer like he had sort of planned originally (there seems to have been kind of plan A, plan B, and possibly even plan C, depending on how well the first movie did - one of them being "Splinter of the Minds Eye", published as a novel, but that would have been made into a movie if Lucas had been able to make just one sequel to the first movie - but then Lucas decided he'd make a whole new plan after that divorce) and while Lucas wanted to keep the sister they then decided to combine the characters of Leia and the unknown sister instead of introducing a new character, and so Leia became Luke's secret sister. Also, I remember reading that there may have been some hints in some interviews back in the 80s that originally the plan may have been to kill Han, after a bit of a love triangle problem, and Leia then ending up with Luke, in the conventional "hero gets the girl" style. Well, before she was made into his sister that is. Possibly that was ditched because Han turned out to be way too popular as a character. And while during the first and the second movie there were teams, team Han and team Luke, when it came to who she should end up with, I gather that team Han was rather bigger or at least noisier, and that affected at least somewhat the decision to go with Han/Leia. Of course, after that making Leia and Luke into siblings nicely solved the problem of the main hero losing in love because that would have been a bit of a bummer no matter how popular the Han/Leia pairing was, and maybe give the Luke/Han bromance some unwanted complications. But yep, I agree that connecting Palpatine to the birth of Anakin was a bit too much. It would have been much better if he had simply been clearly told to be a half-orphan when we first see him, with his mom maybe having had a short marriage or affair with a man she really didn't know much of anything about because he had died in some accident or something almost immediately after they had gotten together and he had gotten her pregnant. Some nobody. And then Palpatine just realizes the kid's huge potential when he first sees him.
The same thing with the "strike me down" line in the throne room - it was to manipulate Luke to the Dark Side. There doesn't need to be some stupid rationale about "oh I have another body to inhabit after this one" which this video's creator likes for some reason. It was literally just that Palpatine wanted Luke to lose control of his emotions, and he knew a rookie Jedi with minimal training wasn't actually a threat to his life.
@@pohjanakka4992 ...some of that's correct. Originally, Luke and Leia were not meant to be siblings (although they were in the earlier drafts of A New Hope, but that was when Luke was still a 60-something war veteran). George planned to have Luke's sister be someone else who had been hidden away by their father (who was not Vader initially) and trained as a Jedi. However, during the production of The Empire Strikes Back, George decided to make Vader and Anakin one in the same, and after deciding he didn't want to make a whole new trilogy (after just how difficult the productions of Episodes lV and V were) he decided to rework the whole lost sister subplot by making Leia Luke's sister (which makes sense, since she was basically the only named girl in Star Wars at the time). This is probably untrue, but I think George was leaning in this direction as early as when The Empire Strikes Back was in production, considering how at the end, Luke and Leia communicate through the Force in a manner suspiciously similar to Luke and Vader's conversation. It may be that George just decided not to tell anyone about this until Return Of The Jedi was being made (because of course he would). As for Han, as far as I know, Lawrence Kasdan and Harrison Ford both petitioned for Han to die in Episode Vll (Harrison because he was sick of playing Han at this point, and Lawrence for... whatever reason), but George shot them both down as he didn't see any reason why such a thing needed to happen in the story. Palpatine is not connected to Anakin's birth. Anakin was created by the midi-chlorians in order to fulfill the prophecy of destroying the Sith and bringing balance to the Force (this would've been properly explained in George's Sequels, but of course, we didn't get that story).
I would admit that the idea that Skywalker would evolve into a messianic-like title, bestowed on a hero destined to correct an imbalance maligning each generation could have been very compelling. Too bad that the Rise of Skywalker completely falls flat to communicate this idea.
The scene of Kylo walking with his crew listening to Rage Against The Machine is the best thing ive seen in a long time XD. I only wish that it was in the theatrical cut
@@Virjunior01, and the stormtroopers just looking at him as he passes by and going "Did you just hear what I just heard?" was the icing on top. 🤌Perfecto.
I still dont understand why they didn't make Rey's self made weapon not be a spear-esque weapon. Could even make the blade part detacheable to be used as a standard lightsaber if pinched for space. You know, tying to her earlier combat expertise, making it really her weapon forged for her own path ahead, rather than "more of the same, but yellow!"
Right? Or at least make it a double bladed saber, that's the closest to her "staff" she can really get. Although a light saber pike has been seen in legends and other material so it's not a crazy idea. That's the point though, these movies actively work against new ideas, and just insist on rehashing everything we've seen cause it's "cool." 😂😂
@@dexterbunco4212 I retroactively HATE the force awakens. When it came out, I actually liked it quite a bunch. As the first movie of a trilogy, and it was meant to be the first movie of a trilogy (unlike, say A New Hope), it set up some interesting possibilities imo. Everything could be more polished, that is empty pseudo-criticism, so what stood out to me was what seemed to be the seeds of lots of interesting potentials... later movies confirmed were all just that, an impression, they weren't there because the last director is the same one and he delivered none of it either. Just another unsatisfying, empty "mystery box" - all hype, all external decoration, nothing comes out of it because there was never any content in it. What a disappointment.
The problem with TROS start with TFA. A soft reboot and slavishly repeating the OT would never be anything be unsatisfying. Especially when they didn’t include the one thing that made the OT so great: The characters and their relationships.
I feel like Disney has been rebooting alot of shows, like the OG disney animations turned live action. Then, when they want to deviate like for Mulan as well, it upsets everyone. Disney is a mess.
The problem is that JJ is extremely shallow. He saw A New Hope and Empire as the only true Star Wars and that George Lucas was a bad director, so there were absolutely no references to the prequels at all in TFA and he probably felt that making A New Hope again would somehow get the franchise back on track. He also felt that prequels = bad because politic scenes = bad, resulting in the worst worldbuilding I've ever scene. The result being that the New Republic only exists in a single solar system? The rebels are the Empire, but also the rebels are also the resistance. Also the First Order reigns already, but also the Emperor reigns, but apparently the First Orders need more ships for some reason? Also the Empire gets outnumbered by...Lando? Palpatine can't die. But also Palpatine wants to die. Also Palpatine dies. Okay then. Good to know we'll never understand the political situation in the galaxy, they just have a forever Emperor in charge now.
Especially when it undoes all character arcs and achievements of original trilogy. Empire hasn't fallen, Sith aren't gone, Han and Leia are not together, they are shitty parents, Luke left everyone like a coward, no Jedi order, New Republic is destroyed in seconds, another Death Star...and now Palpatine is back.
Agreed with everything you just said. Even though storytelling from 1977-'83 is different and must evolve, Disney wrecks everything. Lucas sold his franchise for $12 billion, just like Jim Henson had every intent to sell his workshop to Disney before his death to get cash grabs. Lucas and The Hensons wanted unlimited bankrolling for projects, but in return conveyor belt screenwriters are given the job of world crafting on a tight schedule. Disney is only interested in selling merch, building ride attractions, and repeat Blu Ray releases. Another thing that sticks in my craw is the toxic fandom SW has. It ties directly into Gamergate because scifi/fantasy/anime has always been marketed to white middle class males, which is why they felt "attacked by diversity", not that Disney correctly addresses racism, feminism, and LGBTQ relationships. Then there's the 'shipper crap, IDGAF if you like Stormpilot, Reylo, or FinnRose all that works ONLY in fanart and fanfics. In the OT Leia and Han were CLEARLY going to happen, Kennedy stated Dameron was not going to be a LGBTQ character, that was not how Dameron and Finn were written. Oscar Issac is a flirtatious actor and man, and the only reason why his character was given an entire life DURING TFA's filming was because of his looks. The Disney corporation pays lipservice to the LGBTQ community, it donates money to the GOP, and Disney family members are legacy execs and they are racist and homophobic, they would never sign off on an LGBTQ character for this kind of franchise. And the cast and Abrams pushed shipper crap because they knew the films were fails and depended on social media pot stirring to make their money back.
Lightspeed jumping made me want to die. The whole sequence just kept dancing on hyperspace’s grave. And I’d understand if they mentioned something about new droids being able to calculate hyperspace lanes much faster. But by god. They don’t
even then they jump from some weird impossible crystal spires to the middle of a floating city and theres not going to be a direct path to accelerate/decellerate
@@derkeheath5172Absolutely!! That mystery box crap can work for TV shows, you have time to figure out how it all comes together. With movies though, it just creates confusion. It's like he couldn't help himself, and just threw in too many of his mysteries. The saber, Reys backstory, what's up with Finn, why doesn't Han have the Falcon, where's Luke, and on and on!! Handing it off to multiple directors, without a plan was a HUGE mistake too.
There was something of a plan, but it was thrown so completely off the rails by The Last Jedi that the original director quit and J.J. had to come in to course correct the course correction.
@@mariokarter13 Maybe, but I'm going to press X to doubt. If there was something of a plan, that something was likely rather vague and not necessarily very helpful for the next writer. Too much about The Force Awakens seems halfassed for to have much faith in JJ's planning.
This is basically some guys having 10 story beat ideas, and then playing connect the dots, the story beat only exists to justify the existence of the following story beat
i seriously hate the entire sequel trilogy due to kk firing the best team of people only to replace him with j j and j j was a bland choice to replace colin and derek the movie gives george lucas the big f you and a big f you to real hardcore star wars fans iv been a hardcore star wars fan since 1997 these films are terrible riddled with pllotholes and things never ever getting fully explained people say the last jedi is the best film since empire which i serioiusly strongly disagree slipknot 2014 album did way better than last jedi and force awakens including way better than the rise of skywalker the reason why am saying this that slipknot made a album without joey or paul and made something as hard and as heavy as iowa and self titled heck even we are not your kind did way better than the star wars sequel trilogy sorry i broght up music but im going to say something thats gong to piss manbabys star wars sequel fans off batman forever was a way better film incuding stand by me and of course pee wees big adventure and batman 1989 and the dark knight the dark knight rises and batman begins and batman returns than the entire sequel trilogy
@@turtleanton6539 if you give it time and thought the entire sequel trilogy is pure trashfire all 3 films are riddled with plotholes that never ever get explained
....He DOESN'T believe that characters DON'T have object permanence? As in, he believes they do have it? Is that a typo, or am i missunderstaning something here?
The worst part of Rey taking the name Skywalker at the end is that it was set up so well in the Burning Man part for her to instead say Rey…just Rey but this time being proud of it instead of sad like before
They could have had her learn and take her mother's name if she didn't want to embrace her Palpatine side. The Skywalker thing was hated by everyone. Maybe they'll retcon it in the new movie.
It's very strange to me they felt this need to impart a hero can come from anywhere. And its referenced that heroes don't just come from high status families like the Skywalkers. Did they all forget Anakin was a child slave who rose to prominence?
Not to mention that it was one of the primary functions of the Jedi that they took force sensitive children from every conceivable background to teach and train. Force sensitivity and age were pretty much the only selection criteria.
I don't mind the theme. I also don't mind the theme they had to try to show that things that get "thrown away" can become super valuable when looked at from another perspective etc. BUT! If you are a story teller you CANNOT sacrice story and character for THEMES. I makes it so that people don't like your story and won't get the THEMES either. The production crew of Rise of Skywalker got hyperfocused on themes and scenes and not Story and Character and it really suffered because of that. So sad.
@@ghostbuster7575 Yeah, but they didn’t undermine Anakin by retroactively making him part of some really important pre-established family. The whole point is that he could have been anyone, he just happened to be a Skywalker. By going back and making Rey a Palpatine, after they already had a perfectly workable “Rey is the child of nobodies” thing going, they undermined that theme. If you’re trying to make a story with the message of “dynasties don’t matter“ making your main character retroactively the child of one of the most important characters in the previous stories sends some pretty major mixed signals.
They raised the question of what Rey's friends would think if they discovered she had a dark lineage. They raised the question of how she would act knowing where she came from after finding herself in the last film. They then did not bother to answer the question. They retconned one of the best story beats of the last film for hardly any pay off. It also kills me that there's been so many opportunities for a better story in Rise that they consistently ignore.
@@DumbstuffwatcherThe only question they needed to answer was the one that The Last Jedi setup, what if Rey was an original character, original person, living her own situations that aren't a verbatim remake of Luke Skywalker's adventures but she is a woman as the only difference. And apply the same to every character
@@rosvel92 What if the last Skywalker (Kylo) isn't redeemed? What if the last Jedi is gone and these new characters, with their own stories and no special legacies, have save the day without a Skywalker? What if the bad guy isn't just a D-grade Emperor rip off (who wears stylish gold housecoats, to be fair)? What if I actually don't know what will happen next? Nope, the Emperor's back (between movies) and stuff...
1:15:37 "buries Luke and Leia's lightsaber for all eternity at the one place Luke couldn't wait to get away from in the one material that the guy who built it couldn't stand." damn
This really points out that the whole trilogy was garbage from the 1st. Lots of people blame Rian, but he was just trying to take JJs regurgitation of a new hope and to make something other than an equally regurgative version of empire. The fact that JJ had to conclude the trilogy by attempting to erase the last jedi and establish an act 2 and 3 to the force awakens all in one is really his own fault and that of the story group for not having a more fully fleshed out story for the entire trilogy in the first place. Letting 3 different writer/directors play a game of telephone with the story was a bad call. No wonder Colin Trevaro walked away from episode 9: he was in a no win position.
You both forget that the one' calling the tune was Kathleen Kennedy and her storygroup. Shortly before the TLJ was released a member of the storygroup gave an interview with the LA Times iirc detailing the weeks of meetings they had with RJ before he went into isolation to write TLJ. The failure of the trilogy was the fault of the person in charge, Kennedy.
@@arthurballs9632 That's not how movie making works why do you guys have the weird hate-boner for this one specific woman that you have to blame every failure a corporation and makes solely on her?
@@SOMEGUY7893 Reading comprehension issues or deliberately misprotraying what I wtote? I also mentioned the storygroup... twice. The president of a company is of course ultimately to blame when its showpiece project derails so badly. Especially when the company preside was personally steering the project. KK is entitled to credit when things go right, but she doesn't get to scapegoat JJ or RJ for derailing the project.
@@arthurballs9632 Don't forget even the CEO got involved in the making of rise. Probably because Disney is very aware of their star wars losing goodwill
A note about The Room: The crew tried to make The Room a decent film, but Tommy fired anyone who questioned him and he never ever took advice from anyone. He was a dictator on set, and he squandered away a great crew and millions of dollars.
The Duel of the Fates draft actually makes so much sense. It's as if they took bits from the actually somewhat coherent story and rearanged them into the monstrosity we witnessed.
Eh it was better but if you read through the whole of you'll see plenty more issues. Not quite as many as we got in the end but enough to sour it. At least it actually gave Rey the double bladed lightsaber, still don't understand why they never gave it to her in the end.
Star Wars starts at Episode 4 and ends at Episode 6. That's where everyone should have known to just stop and leave a good thing alone, and move on to something else.
@@DKStacker24 Prequels were ripped apart by audiences at the time they were made. They only seem "good" to some people now because the people who were watching them as kids and didn't know a good movie from a bad one are looking back at them through nostalgia-glasses.
@wasd____ Speak for yourself. There were actually a lot of fans then and now of the prequels, and they stand on their own as great cinema. Revenge of the Sith is George Lucas' magnum opus. The ones that cling to the OT being the only good Star Wars are really a small subset of vocal fans, and if anything, much of their reactions to the prequels were as a result of the movies being different than what they imagined they would be when they saw the original movies as kids. JJ Abrams is one of those, and that is a big reason why the sequel trilogy is so bad. He prefers his fan theories over what the movies, including the original trilogy, actually say about the Jedi and the Force.
JJ Abrams, Chris Terrio and Pablo Hidalgo are living proof that one can know a whole lot about a certain subject while simultaneously either not understand it or be completely clueless as to why people love it
It wouldn’t have made sense for Kylo to have been the one to have killed Rey’s parents, because he was still being trained under Luke and wasn’t “Kylo Ren” yet.
@@user-ly2ll5od1r I genuinely believe that resurrecting Palpatine is the absolute lowest and most desperate of any creative decision that could’ve been made. So I’m at a place where I don’t think anything that avoided bringing Palpatine back could be worse. This is as bad as it gets as long as that story point is here.
It's actually so funny hearing just how many random elements from Duel of the Fates were included in The Rise of Skywalker. I am now firmly confident that this movie was made with sticky notes. Whenever someone was pitching a plot for this movie, whether it be Collin Trevorrow, George Lucas, or who ever else, a few key words were written on sticky notes and plastered all over the writers' room, only for their origin and context to be forgotten about. It's the same thing that happened with the dagger, which was originally meant to be the Dagger of Mortis, as per George's pitch. Someone wrote "dagger" on a sticky note. Someone wrote "childlike alien" on a sticky note. Someone wrote "Kylo giving Rey his life force" on a sticky note.
So disney has been using a method for several years at least in which key elements are filmed with several different somewhat open-ended variations in essence using a "choose Your own adventure" type format allowing for flexibility in editing trying to cover their asses having become too afraid to take the financial risk of gambling on filmmakers and storytellers with the key element for epic works of entertainment in any medium Artists who put the work in front of profits are problematic for the dead sheep in business types and their answer is test audience reaction tailoring to find the right combination via wash rinse repeat forgetting that what made the choose Your own adventure books worth reading for the audience was the choices not the generally mediocre story's but disney kept the choices to themselves and give audiences their attempts to please everyone chasing the box office not timelessness
@@jaycarlisle5770 Thank you for reminding me, they did this with Wish too; their 100th anniversary movie, and it seems to have just been cut together like a jigsaw because doing it this way "gives them more creative freedom". Well, it bombed, so so much for that. Disney has lost its sense of restraint, since now EVERYTHING can be "fixed in post". They don't even have a story finished when they start shooting/animating - and I don't mean that stories don't get changed during the movie-making process, but that they start without having an end goal; like a marathon where nobody is told where the finish line is.
Okay putting aside the other 200 dumb things about the dagger and the death star wreckage -- what I find hilarious is that the script thinks you need a plot device to tell the protagonists to search the Emperor's chambers in order to find things related to him, as if that isn't the first place you would look. If the point is just to show where the chambers are in the wreckage, the dagger isn't special and you could get that info from different sources or just by exploring a little on your own. But the movie treats it as a reveal -- like the dagger is providing the X on a treasure map -- except that the X is on the most obvious place the treasure would be "hidden" and if you didn't have the map you would have looked there immediately, anyway.
Yep it's very dumb on basically all levels. Although I liked the idea of a assasins weapon used to kill lots of people having a connection to sith power etc. But the whole way it was implemented SUCKED.
That is just signature JJ Abrams. Old movie construction memes without any forethought. It's like Rick Berman writing Star Trek stories involving time travel because "we need time travel".
They are a garbage company that just wants money, so they decided to pump out the movies to get said money. They knew people are dumb enough to pay to watch whatever they put out.
At the Palpatine part not being a last minute addition. My criticism then is that there is no hinting at his possible existence or pulling of strings or Rey ancestry or anything for the previous 2 movies. How easy to throw the slightest, hint of his leitmotif when Rey sees her reflection, or talking about her family, etc etc. But that would mean the movies actually used leitmotifs correctly instead of nostalgia stirrers.
The recent Halloween trilogy had a lot of the same problems due to a complete lack of planning. Halloween Ends COULD have worked if it had been set up at all in the previous two movies, but it wasn't because they had ZERO idea what they were going to do with either sequel until they started writing it. It's a level of incompetence that should not be tolerated by Hollywood, but is actually encouraged because all they care about is $$$.
I doubt it was actually planned and the team just say so to not look bad. Based on everything we know and have seen Rey was planned to be a solo and they didn't have a plan for the main villain other then snoke or kylo
It wasn't hinted at in the previous movies because TROS is a course correction of a course correction. TLJ was a creative dead end that systematically destroyed every possible plot thread they could've built upon for the finale. Palpatine returning was an act of desperation.
I'm not sure if Palpatines' return was planned from the outset or not, but if it was, I believe the original Intent was to drop hints thorough Episode 8, with him probably making a big return at the very end of the Movie. If that's the case, Rian got rid of that entire plotline, making Palpatines surprise return in 9 a last-ditch attempt by JJ to get the story back on the originally intended course. But I'm *sure* that Rey being at least related to Palpatine had been planned all along. Just a feeling, but if you listen to Rey's Theme (which was the main centerprise of the Episode VII-Score) I can hear a resemblance to Palpatine's Theme. I wouldn't put it past Williams to make a musical connection there, after all the Victory Celebration-Music from Episode I was also a reworking of the Emperors' Theme. --- In any case, if Palpatines' return and Rey being related to him had been part of the original plan, I can almost apprechiate than Rian tried to steer things in a different direction for once. These are plotpoints I'd rather not getting explored. Rey being a nobody not related to anyone important is something I actually like more. Same with Palpatine. Better he stayed dead.
@@A2forty 1. TFA was written by Michael Arndt, but his script was rewritten by Lawrence Kasdan (Empire, RotJ) and JJ Abrams. 2. TLJ was written by Rian Johnson, at the personal invitation of Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy. RJ had weeks of meetings with the Lucasfilm storygroup before he went away and wrote the script. 3. TRoS was written by Derek Connolly, Colin Trevorrow, JJ Abrams, and Chris Terrio, with the final two being invited in at the last minute as Trevorrow had walked/been shoved out. The failure of the trilogy lies mainly with the president of Lucasfilm regardless of the efforts of entry-level gaslighters to find scapegoats for her colossal mismanagement of the trilogy.
it seems like it was made by too many people, trying to put in everyones ideas to please all then reversing those when they aren't received well (cough Rose cough) and listening to much to us on the internet. Yes, we will gripe and complain, but have a solid idea and stick with it despite our whinging and we will respect it, even if we wished it went differently.
I disagree about it not being important to know how Palpatine was brought back. Without that info there is no way to be sure he couldn’t come back again.
1:15:38 I laughed so hard at your summarization of the ending. Burying the lightsabers in the place Luke couldn’t wait to leave in the material that the man who built it couldn’t stand🤣🤣🤣💀 It perfectly sums up what frustrates me about the sequels, a trilogy I was genuinely excited for and kept giving chances to.
Something really hit me when talking about the timetables for how this was made. George started writing Episode 1 in 1994 and it wasn't released till 1999 now I'm not saying he probably didn't have some sort of release deadline, but when you look how little time this film had to be made it's absolutely clear the studio doesn't give a shit if it's bad they literally do not care it just has to be out so they can sell billions on the name recognition
Um. No. George wrote all 9 movies long before 1994. I read all 9 scripts in 1990. And they were written quite some time before then. Perhaps he rewrote Ep 1 in 1994. But he had a full 9 stories (movies-worth of story) done before 1990.
That was a problem from the beginning of the trilogy sadly. Disney’s unreasonable deadlines and JJ’s ego destroyed any chance of seeing a story that at least honored Lucas’ legacy.
@@detah1George stopped working on the franchise shortly after episode 6 due to divorce and raising his children, what you may have read if you aren't lying is some early outlines. He gave up on a sequel trilogy the moment he stepped back and didn't even plan to make one again until he knew he was selling his company as he knew the buyer would want to make a sequel trilogy. Those sequels were dropped by Disney and JJ
Considering how little went right there should've been more mockery. He actually gives some credit where only criticism would be appropriate. Their 'good' ideas still sucked & were conceived of completely the wrong way. Writing scenes with only tone or 'wishlist shots' in mind, for example, is a horrible way to craft a compelling story & he should've made more clear how & why it's an absolutely insulting method to utililize & how it led to this dumpster fire. Mauler's tone is perfect to characterize an abomination like this. It deserves an appropriately scathing response.
@thahoule7924 what an embarrassing take. If you hate people because of their political leanings you need to look in the mirror and see we all want what's best with different methods involved. We're on the same team. Powerful people want you to hate your fellow man and disregard their words.
@@BlackJesus1998 The right, by definition, does not want what's best for everyone. The entire foundation of their belief system is reinforcing hierarchies. We are absolutely not on the same team and you don't even need to hate them to be honest about that fact.
@gopack2k again, another ridiculous take. The "right" is a far broader mix of political philosophies than you currently understand. And if you genuinely believe being on the right is about "reinforcing hierarchies" then i have news for you. Both sides do it, whether they're making new ones or not. To boil that down to such a degree that you can't even acknowledge the end goals of someone you don't agree with, instead referring to your own ideology of power structures and post-modernism, speaks to how effectively you have dehumanized those around you. Seriously, maybe try and befriend someone who doesn't agree with you for once.
@@Jeezes718 Yoda Aveross Unduli Secura Adi-Mundi Quadrineros Dameron (yeah, she’s related to Poe and the random podracer from episode 1, makes about as much sense as everything else in the sequels!)
Could you imagine how much better this story could've been from the beginning if they just established that Rey (or Kira; her name should've been Kira) was the daughter of Han and Leia?
I feel like them needing to replace Snoke after Rian Johnson killed him off is a perfect example of the lack of oversight from Disney on this. The Marvel movies might not have a lot of oversight, but I doubt they would have let James Gunn kill off Thanos during Guardians of the Galaxy. They knew they were heading towards Infinity War, even though they weren't trying to script the movie beforehand or anything. With Star Wars they sorta stumbled in to doing Dark Empire seemingly without deciding that in advance, and I think they really should've so the other movies could build towards it properly.
Honestly, that might have been the entire problem. They didn't know what the end goal of the trilogy was beyond "Good guys win". So Rian Johnson felt free to kill Snoke because Snoke didn't fit in with his idea of what this trilogy should be about.
@@tomhur1He needed to kill Snoke so they would not remake Darth Sidious and Darth Vader all over again. He had no way of figuring out how they would remake it anyway. They should honestly allowed James Gunn and Guardians to kill Thanos, because the Guardians fighting Thanos would had been more interesting than The Avengers fighting Thanos.
From what I’ve heard, there was an attempt by some executives to sue Kennedy because they actually were able to watch an edit of the film done by George Lucas that was apparently MUCH better than what was released. In fact, it also was screened to test audiences and received a higher rating as well. Now, it’s not likely the Lucas cut will ever be seen simply because if it was released, it could validate their claim that Kennedy knowingly rejected the better movie in favor of the one that had more of her personal ideas and preferences than Lucas’s cut did.
@@kidwajagstang Lucas was not involved. He said so in an interview he had nothing to do with the films. He simply gave his plans/ideas to Disney, and they bought the ideas but said they may or may not use his stories.
@@lingricen8077 it's not a backpedal. Lucas was not involved. He wanted to be, and tried to pitch ideas, but Disney rejected him. Even though Disney bought the rights to his new ideas he said they did not use any of them.
I am blown away by how much better the original plot for the film was. Not saying it was Oscar-winning material, but wow is that better than the turd it eventually became.
You said that bad movies don't happen on purpose and for the most part I believe you. But I think bad movies happen when there is a distinct lack of care from studios to produce something meaningful. And that is all I see with the sequels, an apathy to executives to tell a meaningful story in favor of making money. I also think that some bad movies do happen on purpose, not because the writer means for it to be bad, but rathe they don't realize how ludicrous their vision ultimately is. That's how I personally feel about Rian Johnson and the Last Jedi. I don't think he meant for it to be a bad movie because in his mind he had a very specific vision, one which he accomplished. Unfortunately, it was a vision that was fundamentally at odds with the themes, established stories, characters, and universe Star Wars operated in. It's like if George Lucas was put in change of a Game of Thrones movie. I don't think it would work because Lucas's worldview and messages are so different from the ones George RR Martin conveys in his works. Lucas could expertly make a movie according to his exact vision but it wouldn't be good. Not because of countless small decisions or executive incompetence, but rather because Lucas's passion and worldview, expressed through his art, would not line up with the themes, stories, characters, and world that GoT operates in.
I suppose it would be more accurate to say "nobody making a movie purposefully makes decisions that they think will make the movie worse". There's definitely movies that are done purely for a paycheck, or where there's been so much creative turnover that there's not really anyone at the helm who knows what's going on (I've worked on a few myself), but even when everyone working on the movie knows they have a turd on their hands, their job is still to try and make it as good as they can with the resources available, even if what they think is "good" doesn't align with what anyone else does. And you're right that not everyone's going to be right for every story, even if they really want to tell it. Like, JJ Abrams has a moment in the Episode 7 director commentary where he talks about Rey finding the lightsaber as a moment that means nothing to her, but has meaning for the audience. To me, that's fundamentally at odds with how Star Wars storytelling works - Lucas designed the original film as not just a move about another galaxy, but a movie From another galaxy, so putting major storytelling beats into the movie that have nothing to do with the internal logic of the world and the characters just seems wrong to me. But then again, lots of people liked that moment, and were stoked to see that prop again after 35 years. Even if it's a weird unearned moment that I don't think works, stuff like that made a lot of people happy, so I really can't say it was a Bad Decision, because it definitely had the intended effect on the intended people.
@@empirewreckers I'd argue just because some fans liked that scene doesn't make it an okay scene, by law of quantity someone will always like something, hence there being any fans of the sequel trilogy or the Michael bay transformers movies. From both a narrative and in universe angle it's a horrible scene that didn't work in anyway other than nostalgia bait.
@@empirewreckers At the same time, JJ showed Han Solo as a washed up failure, unable to develop his character any further from A New Hope. Fans didn't like that and I'm willing to bet JJ was hoping fans would like that, because A New Hope is "true" Star Wars so therefore they want to see A New Hope Han Solo.
I think George Lucas could make a Game of Thrones movie work, but only if the tv show did not already exist. George RR Martin created a Game of Thrones, partially in response to The Lord of the Rings and George Lucas tried to make a Lord of the Rings film, couldn't get the rights and made Willow instead. Both creators know well The Lord of the Rings and both creators have used history to influence their stories so I would say they would be in a good position to handle each other's work. Where it would go wrong though is if George Lucas used the cast from the Game of Thrones tv show after it airs, then fundamentally change them all to be unrecognizable to suit his story. People would just have a hard time accepting the character changes at a fundamental level. If they see Ned Stark acting like old Ben Kenobi, they're going to call him Jake Stark instead.
"I don't think he meant for it to be a bad movie because in his mind he had a very specific vision, one which he accomplished. Unfortunately, it was a vision that was fundamentally at odds with the themes, established stories, characters, and universe Star Wars operated in." Except - speaking as a SW fan from the year 1980 - is actually is. It's VERY tied to established stories, characters and the universe. It's just not the bits that some fans remember or want to remember because different fans remember SW being many things. Some of those things are their interpretations of the text of the film, not the actual text as its presented. Case in point: half the fans hating that Luke didn't want to fight and that Luke doesn't actually fight Kylo at the end. Those fans wanted to see Luke "kick ass". Except half the fans DO remember what Yoda told him in EMPIRE: "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense. Never for attack." If anything, George Lucas retconned his own principles and themes in the prequels if you want to explain away what the Jedi get upto in those films. Or that Yoda was teaching Luke in a way so that he didn't repeat the mistakes that the prequel Jedi did. And guess what? Luke created Kylo because, for the briefest moment, he almost didn't follow Yoda's advice from EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. And Luke finally gets it right by never swinging his blade in anger and only using it to save his friends in the most non-violent method possible. Is the idea of non-violence distasteful to a lot of SW fans? Maybe. But never for me since EMPIRE and JEDI uses Luke's arc to explore that idea perfectly. THE LAST JEDI is a true-blue STAR WARS film, but only for fans who remember the bits of STAR WARS that THE LAST JEDI actually takes inspiration from. The Force, the mysticism, the spirituality, the ethics, the morals, and yes even the completely stupid and broken space physics of the original trilogy (how long did Luke train with Yoda, again? Sound in space? Starfighters that bank like airplanes, making them easier to lead and hit?). The rough and ready serialized fantasy space adventure with black-and-white heroes and villains and status-quo reassuring escapism that the only way to get anything done is to kick butt? LAST JEDI - perhaps foolishly - took no inspiration from and thus had no content that served that segment of the audience. This is why LAST JEDI fans are rabidly excited about the movie. AND often they like it and reject the Abrams films. Because STAR WARS is more than just "characters and relationships" its about actual challenging themes and ideas and that film took those ideas and pushed them farther. It's the only film since 1980 that ever did. And yes - absolutely - at least HALF of the fans of STAR WARS aren't interested in those things. And that's okay. The biggest mistake with THE LAST JEDI was that the franchise had spent far too long being everything EXCEPT a series of movies and by the time it came to treat an actual STAR WARS film like a "film", the fanbase was already invested in the franchise being a theme-park ride instead. People keep pointing at things like THE MANDALORIAN, but even that is more a child's fantasy while their authentic 1980's Kenner figures bash into each other than actually using the SW Universe to explore new ideas and change the universe itself. People don't want STAR WARS to change and yeah, that's an attitude that no movie, no matter how finely crafted, can actually defeat.
Well done. Love the in-depth unbiased analysis. I do have to disagree on one point though- Palpatine’s return must’ve been explained because it has real storytelling consequences. Understanding his return allows the climax to have any meaning. The movie builds to Rey killing him, but how is that any more definitive than what Anakin did? How did he not possess Rey when all she had to do was kill him? Is this his OG body getting destroyed or not? Can he clone himself again or not? It doesn’t feel like Rey accomplished anything since there’s nothing to stop this from happening again.
Yeah, expanding on the circumstances of his return could definitely help to sell that his defeat in this one is actually-foreverially-permanent. I feel like they intended the deaths of the cultists or whoever was in the stadium to imply that the people who brought him back in the first place are dead too (unless there's another secret Sith resurrection planet out there), but it it's not really well conveyed.
Not only that, but the sequels set a president for any all all victories to be meaningless. What is stopping the Empire from rising up again in a new incarnation after 30 years just as the First Order did? What is stopping Rey from having all of her Jedi students killed and then living as a hermit with the Jedi never being reestablished? By refusing to change the status quo, the sequels have doomed the Star Wars galaxy to be in an endless cycle of the the Empire somehow taking over with no Jedi to stop them and a Rebellion forming to counteract them. And that same cycle will repeat meaning endless war. It's all very depressing and making the entire story of Star Wars meaningless. The OT only meant something because there was the promise of permanent change. But the sequels pretty much destroyed that promise.
Bringing back Palpatine was a major mistake considering Palpatine was defeated in Return of the Jedi and now he back he is not threatening really hard to believe anyone takes him seriously.
@@empirewreckers bringin back palpatine ruins both anakins and lukes journeys thats why i seriously hate these films they should have left palpatine dead and stay dead the orginial script aka duel of the fates had a way better plot and a way better everything till that idiot kk fired them both kk is a control freak and she lied to me and all us real star wars fans she said these wors we will take good care of these charecters then they seperated han luke and leia i wanted the ot trio back in episode 7 splotting them apart was the biggest mistake an rian johnson ruined and destroyed my all time favorite charecter luke skywalker by the time we reach the rise of skywalker the damage was done the rise of skywalker did just as much damage are both the force and last jedi these films ruined and broke my heart remember iv been a star wars fan since 1997 the acting in the sequel trilogy is far worse than the prequels i rather watch the prequels on repeat than watch the sequels the acting plots in each sequel trilogy films are terrible the only thing rian and j j care about is not story or charecters or plots all they care about is action the acting and storytelling in the past 6 films were better because each film took their time to get made ill never forgive rian johnson for what he did to my childhood hero and my other antie hero anakin skywalker/darth vader ill never ever forgive both rian and j j and kk for what they did to star wars and i seriously hated the force dyad stuff as well im sorry am telling you this i hope you understand how i feel
The story explained in the first 20 minutes of this video sounds fucking rad. I would have absolutely loved to have seen that on screen. It would have been so good. Breaks my heart.
My key takeaway from this video is this - it's very easy for a series of changes (many of which are understandable, driven by necessity, or even positive!) to have a cumulative negative effect. It's easy - and very fun - to dunk on this particular example, but the lesson is applicable to lots of our own creative endeavors.
Facts. This video does an excellent job showing the domino effect of "well this needs to happen, so this happens" completely mauling a story that probably should have been figured out before principal photography on episode 7 even started...
Compare this to the essence of RotJ: - Luke and friends rescue their friend Han - Luke seeks closure with friend Yoda - Luke confronts father to redeem him, while friends fight for freedom That movie was all about the characters and their relationships.
People miss this point. The Vader being Luke's father reveal is not just information, it creates a crisis for Luke. Because Luke's whole motivation has been to take after his father, become a Jedi like him. And he believes Vader murdered his father and saw Vader kill his father figure Obi Wan. So to then find out they're the same pattern shatters everything. He is at his lowest point, has to come back from that and becoming better than his father to save his father. It's a character development reveal. Copying it with Rey being so and so's descendant misses the point.
@@oliverford5367, exactly. I remember watching a video on this exact subject, and someone told it like this: "The identity of Rey's parents isn't story; it'd be generous to even call it backstory. It's just a fact. Story would be where, when, who reveals it, why it's revealed, and how Rey reacts when she learns the truth. How the fact affects the plot." George Lucas understood this when making The Empire Strikes Back and Return Of The Jedi in a way that J.J. and Rian could never hope to.
Holy shit. I have a hard time dealing with just HOW DUMB some of these ideas were. They created a “sabotage brick” that could disable the entire FO fleet?!? How the F can J.J Abrams write this and say: “Oh yeah! Here we go! This makes sense and will make for a great movie!”
I mean which is worse a sabotage device built by generatiins of enslaved ship builders, or the space ships flying in formation over the surface of a planet dont know and cannot figure out without help which way is UP?
The benefits of a singular vision permeate this documentary. When I look at the group meetings at 2:41 I see a committee, which is antithetical to good storytelling. Everyone has their little pet ideas (the horses, the not-so-subtle messaging). When this “committee debris” is allowed into the script, it only serves to compromise the tightness of the story. There is a lot of committee debris in RoS that doesn’t serve the overall story, so audiences finish it feeling unsatisfied.
I like how Colin wanted to use pre established ideas, ships, planets etc from EU material instead of never showing any previously named planets not showing any classic aliens as if rodians, Ithorians, Twi’leks, and quarren just don’t exist,
43:29 "He's right, how Palpatine returned doesn't effect the story" I'm sorry, but that statement couldn't be more wrong. If it is established that Palpatine can't die, then the stakes of the movie become completely unclear. How do you claim victory against someone if you can't even figure out if they can die or not? Did he use the Force to create his fleet? Is the next movie going to be Palpatine popping up on another planet with 10,000 Death Stars again?
man... that outline by the previous guy sounds almost amazing.... having a dark side user above the sith, a supernatural being, somewhat like the Bendu, would have been a great way to explain the high level of dark arts used by the first order duo WITHOUT the cheap move of cancelling a very important death along with many other premises like holocrons instead of magic triangle maps or the coruscant motif
Something tells me that JJ's wishlist images are based on thinking sessions involving action figures. Chris Terrio after barging in on JJ: "No, sir! I didn't see you playing with your dolls again!"
8:05 steal a star destroyer. Three people. Stealing the equivalent of an aircraft carrier. I'm sorry, but even duel of the fates sounds absolutely moronic.
It is stupid, but in episode three Anakin and Obi wan were in control of the burning capital ship, while it was crashing they were still in control, I think they could've made that work
The book Halo: First Strike had the small group of protagonists steal a rather small capital enemy vessel, except they way it was done made a lot of sense. Even with Master Chief (the galaxy’s greatest soldier) and Cortana (an incredibly smart AI), they barely managed to do so with their lives.
@@c456ex9 I mean as you said it is stupid but is it manageable? Like ok, obi wan and anakin in a way híjacked the ship but because they were brought directly to the bridge by their captors not like they landed and went directly blasting their way into the Ship, which they could not realistically do. Not even in the clone wars a situation contemplated. So if the whole crew is alerted to the presence of resistance hijackers, there is no way in hell that the resistance could hijack a fully crewed ship. And if by somehow they do manage to hijacked it what about the crew? How is the resistance going to use a capitol ship? I mean they would add it, the writers, but out of the sudden would forget it to add it in a significant way. So it would be stupid had they included it
The idea that palpatine created anakin but had no way to know who he impregnated through the force would be really interesting if he tried it again after sensing vader would betray him, that would be a good connection if they really wanted the palpatine grandfather thing
"She wanted a villain for the final movie that would connect all three trilogies together." That's why Rian set up Kylo to be that villain, to not need an additional threat.
Except Kylo was about as intimidating as an angry toddler, and barely won most of his fights on screen at this point, being hopelessly outclassed by Rey. As it is, the world building was 4 shit, so it's hard to say how powerful or weak the first order is in general. So it's not like you can use the might of those bumbling idiots to develop Kylo into a real threat.
@@tweda4kylo had potential to be a great villain the writers just screwed the pooch. Adam driver is great in the role and the character design is pretty cool
@richardjulien3345 I mean, sure, I guess. But that argument is basically an excuse for the entire sequel trilogy; "if the first film was more than just a re-hash of 'A new Hope' then it would have had more opportunity for an interesting story." "If the Last Jedi didn't completely neglect any and all world building then maybe the first order would be a more defined threat, and the lack of any response by the galactic community by the first order blowing up 5 planets would make more freaking sense" "If Kylo had been able to win literally any of his fights with Rey, or had shown an impressive use of the force more than just in the first half of force awakens, maybe he might have been able to be more of a threat" "If Hux wasn't written as a comedic punching bag in TLJ, maybe he could have been an intimidating enemy general and propagandist instead of having to be replaced in the last film with someone who could still be perceived as a threat" Etcetera...
I'm confused. Isn't a script rewrite and refinement process supposed to make it better, remove plotholes, add information, increase viewer investment and raise the stakes? Instead of, you know, doing the opposite?
I think the idea of challenging Rey internally as to whether or not she would stand with her new family or fall in with Palpatine was soooo stupid. If they’d at least given some idea that she felt out of place or not with a family in the Resistance, it might make that struggle more of a real possibility. Maybe if we saw more clearly that she had an actual draw to the dark side, it might make that struggle seem more real. But when you have sweet General Leia giving her big hugs and all these people around who support her, and no big indication she’ll go to the dark side besides the “Oopsie” lighting that blew up (but didn’t really blow up) Chewie, it makes the stakes of “will she or won’t she” seem…I dunno, not so dramatic. This was already presented (and much more clearly) to Luke in Return Of the Jedi. He was caught between a rock and a hard place, and he knew Vader was his father. He had more to gain by joining his father to save his friends. Like, can’t we make it a different struggle for Rey? Or at least hint that her Mary Sue persona actually is tainted by real draws to the dark side beforehand?
Back when I actually believed they had a plan for the trilogy, I thought it was going to explore Kylo being bad but wanting to be good, and Rey being good but "wanting" to be bad or wanting power/revenge. So they would slowly switch places while meeting in the middle, like how some of those "dark Rey" concept images showed them ruling together. This would've served the trilogy a lot better, as everyone loved Kylo while most people disliked Rey. Now Kylo/Ben is dead forever and we're stuck with the goody two shoes non-character Rey. Not that it matters now, because I'm pretty sure they won't touch any of this stuff again.
I agree...this arc for both Rey and Kylo would have been far more interesting. And even could be used to re-emphasize Luke's convictions from the original trilogy: that even the darkest can be saved. Have Rey go full dark side to be redeemed by Ren's reawakened empathy as the climax of the trilogy would serve as a powerful arc of a saga about light conquering dark. I really think the Last Jedi was set up with intentions to go in that direction: that after Smoke died, with the power vacuum and Rey killing him, her temptations grow deeper and more ambitious to prove she's not a nobody as Kylo had claimed. She was only ever connected to the Resistance out of convenience anyway, as it wasn't really her fight. The disillusionment she felt when meeting the legendary Luke Skywalker would have paid off as evidence that the Jedi failed and failed her. Last Jedi had a lot of faults, but I think it was intending to set up much more interesting dynamics between Rey and Kylo than were realized in Rise of Skywalker.
I had this theory that Disney's method for making Star Wars movies and shows was based mostly around imagery and not around characters. And you just confirmed this. The thing is that there was so much potential around the characters in the sequel trilogy that was all squandered for imagery and loose ties to that imagery. It's still happening in the TV shows and has spread to Marvel as well.
This drives me nuts with Finn. From TFA, you get the feeling - even with Rey being the Jedi focus - that he clearly has some aptitude as well, with the "luck" aspect. And then TLJ makes all that take a back seat, only for a passing use of it near the end of TRoS. They set you up with him using the saber first. The greatest thing they could have done with him is have him and Rey BOTH become Jedi by TRoS, with Rey using what she learned from Luke to teach Finn, and creating a "Master/Apprentice" cycle again, with two people feeling their way through the whole thing, much like Luke had to with his academy. Blows my mind how much they squandered things they setup in TFA.
@@IrisCorven I was actually hoping that Rey would turn to the dark side with Kylo Ren and fun would fight them but convince Rey to come back to the light at the end to mirror Darth Vader and Luke.
How Palpatine returned isn't important, what is important is "Somehow Palpatine returned." They could have attempted to explain it. They could have given us a meh reason as to why he came back, but theories just didn't commit.
The entire thing is Palpatine's story now. He created Anakin who was forbidden to learn how to defy death. But if Palpatine created Rey like he created Anakin, and now she's using the healing powers one can only learn "NOT FROM A JEDI" - then does this mean little Grogu not only exists to justify Rey's healing powers, but is Baby Yoda maybe doing Sith stuff too?
@@MouldMadeMind yeah and furthermore clones don't take on the exact personality of the person they're cloned from. See: literally the entirety of clone wars which is canon and Lucas approved.
It is extremely telling that I legitimately completely forgot they destroyed a planet in rise of skywalker
That reminds me of something
The threat in the movie is so immaturely absurd that it becomes non existent
A trillion death stars will blow up the galaxy
And a planet being destroyed feels like nothing, it's insignificant
I read this comment and my first reaction was....wait did they? When and wich one? I do not remember
@@salvatoreg26Kajimi. Idk if I spelled it right. It's Zori's planet.
They killed mostly storm troopers on the planet lol
@@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009 What even happened in the sequels?
Watching this video made me realize something about this movie...
I had absolutely no recollection of 99% of it.
I'm baffled by the protagonist having her character rewritten for the last third of the trilogy.
It's such a weird movie.
@@NyJoanzy they brought back Palpatine, there was literally nothing too far for them.
Wouldn't have been surprised that jar jar Bink was Palpatine in a plot twist
@@TH-cam_is_Trash Jar Jar being a second Sith Lord is a really good fan theory, explains a lot of the issues behind the prequels.
Same I kept watching the clips of video in the background and I just couldn't place any of it.
They really did want us to forget about what just happened in the previous scene so the present one will make sense.
@@jonathaneckersall2939 I think it was summed up best when referred to as “Star Wars - Stuff Happens” it’s really just a compilation of people running around a lot.
She called herself Rey Skywalker for tax evasion purposes and I am surprised everyone missed this clearly outlined point.
Palpatine faked his death for tax write offs
I had fallen in love of the scavenger Rey. Can you imagine someone who could make force sensitive machines? But no, they had to turn her into Chuck Yeager and later into El Zorro. From there it went down. I have the scavenger action figure, the only good thing about the film.
I think the lease for the farm property was still under Lars and Skywalker, and so get around squatting she just took the property over....later on realising there was about 2 million owed in back rent
That’s the same reason she buried the lightsabers like Ivana at the golf course. Gotta get them intergalactic tax breaks in line
I would rather guess inheritance fraud
I'm sure I've seen The Rise of Skywalker, but it must have been so unmemorable that halfway through this video I seriously questioned if I had seen the movie
Honestly sames LOL
yea i was like “did star wars have a 9th movie with palpatine in it? nah that mustve just been a dream”
Same, i know i saw it opening weekend, but it was so boring and forgettable, i became a WH40K fan.
Holy shit lol - exact same feeling
I am HUGE FAN of the solo movie and i still cant rcollect a single moment in episode IX. Pity that they ended the saga in episode 8
I just can’t understand why they were so obsessed with having horses involved. They got rid of so much but they HAD to have horses
Three words: Girls. Love. Horses.
@@RicardoAGuitar Kathleen Kennedy is just a grown up horse girl.
I think I remember hearing that Lucas liked to have people riding beasts in every star wars movie. I don't know why, and I can't find it quoted anywhere online, but I guess they couldn't find a better way to incorporate that into the movie than having horses galloping on the side of a star destroyer.
12 year old white gurl Becky loves horses 🐎 gotta reach every audience member mmk
@@RicardoAGuitar three words: girls. fuck. Horses
“Rey buries Luke and Leia‘s light sabers for all eternity at the one place Luke couldn’t wait to get away from, in the one material that the guy who built it couldn’t stand.”
LOVE IT.
Also the absolute worst material to bury something in
The story is deeper than I originally gave it credit for being 😂😂
Would've made more sense to bury them on Naboo with their mother Padme.
But if Anakin couldn't have the same luxury, guess the kids couldn't either. 🤷🏻♂️
It's a burial of hate, not of love. It would've been more respectful to throw it into a star.
Also, fucking steals their namesake...Meaning Palpatine (at least through blood) *CONTINUES* his fucking insidious ownership of the Skywalkers
To me it felt like the entire sequel trilogy was a high school project that started with passion, and ended with deadlines, confusion, and a "just get it finished" mindset.
Imagine how much better it could have been if they just extended the deadlines by a few more months
reguardless of media and Disney lies the story has gone of the rails and cliff with TLJ,. it was not a salvageable project at that point. Solo movie not that bad, not good ether but most fans were still pissed many never came back.
@@129das yeah the only good movie in my opinion was Rogue. It was a darker story and everyone died. That's how you tell a compelling story. Not with some overpowered Mary Sue that never trained a day in her life and is somehow more powerful than all previous jedi masters that lived.
Plus, Rey is just not a great/likable character. As time goes by, I find myself no longer able to cheer for her.
@@lunarvision Rey would have been a fantastic character had Disney not given her the "Ermagherd can literally do any and everything with no actual effort cuz woman" trope.
I love how they made the movie make less sense as they went. Fucking incredible.
Now imagine how things could have been even more nonsensical, had AI been involved in writing the script.
@@zacklapaglia7644from
6ghgtyg
Read Aldous Huxley's 'Brave New World' then it will all make sense
@@louisbennett7709 I love that book!
Have to say: The earlier drafts sounded a whole lot more coherent than what the movie ended up being...
Honestly that original script actually sounds decent
Ya & I wanna say the first line of this video "Bad Movies aren't made on purpose" is wrong, because Ruin Johnson actually set out to make a bad Star Wars movie to kill the franchise.
It's not only coherent but kinda follows the already established lore within the Star Wars universe (mostly legends tbf), which would've instantly made the film 10 times better. What we ended up with is basically the foot notes of what was originally intended but instead nothing is ever explained or justified ("Somehow Palpatine returned" as an example) and the movie just feels soulless and hollow. As if they literally just went from plot point to plot point with absolutely no clue how or what they were supposed to do in the meantime.
They just got so scared that they decided to dedicate a whole film to destroy what they were building and go "see guys we did all you asked please like our movie"
Still sound like a convoluted mess, a little less than the original though
Remember in Jedi when 3P0 said "it's against my programming to impersonate a deity-" and Luke said "just do it!" and 3P0 did it without having his brain wiped?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
They remember it so we don't have to
eh, they probably pushed out a security patch in 40 years between the movies
Droid DRM was invented after RotJ
Ehh, not really comparable. Threepio had no idea what Luke meant when Luke said, “Tell them you’ll use your magic…” His protest at that point wasn’t “It’s against my programming” - it was (verbatim) “What magic?!”
I'm pretty sure that the Pepperidge Farm guy is Sith.
Knowing how palpatine came back is literally one of the biggest criticisms of the movie, because if he’s alive that invalidates the entirety of the OT
Palpatine returned very similarly in Dark Empire 5 (1992)
@@EpicJoshua314 I know, and I think that wasn’t good either, only reason I don’t hate that novel was the execution, but that is a good point to make in response to my argument so thank you!
Palp could have come back in a better way.
Maybe we find out that Snoke was just a fake projection of Palpatine and also that Palp is responsible for Luke and Kylo Ren having their disagreement. Maybe Palp put a vision of fear in Luke and he had his PTSD breakdown.
@@HAFBeast91 or that Snoke was his Starkiller Equivalent, Palp trained him to kill Vader should he turn and then after he died he did the sith possession thing, and just like that (and using their very weird point about Palpy being a ghost possessing Rey) I’ve made a much better reason for something stupid to happen
@@EpicJoshua314 Dark Empire at least respects Anakin by letting him part of the story as a force ghost, who is Luke's moral compass at times (who struggles to fall to the dark side in his studies to defeat Palpatine) and finally being the key of defeating Palpatine forever. Luke could only destroy him physically, its Anakin who sealed him in away in the Afterlife after that in a great display of father & son teamwork.
The yellow lightsaber represents something that can Disney can sell at Galaxy's Edge for 249.99.
The entire Star Wars franchise just exists to represent something Disney can sell at this point.
@@wasd____star wars was always about selling merchandise, even during George lucas.😂😂
@@legovaderproductions6739 Yup he took a smaller salary to keep the merchandising rights.
The yellow lightsaber ties the end of the franchise back to the beginning of the franchise: Moichandising, moichandising, moichandising!
Damn!!!!
It's funny how the movie went from having a ton of interesting ideas to almost using none of them. The movie reeks of too much interference by too many people instead of letting one person control the overall story. It seems like there were too many people saying, no don't do that which left it with little direction it could go.
So, it was the opposite of the Prequels. Seems like what JJ wanted after all!
I don't think enough people were saying no.
@@breastfeedittoyou1548 Hilariously, that might have been one of the weaknesses of the prequels as well. Lucas is a great ideas guy, but in the OT he had a lot of very capable people around him who shot him down when his ideas got too 'out there'.
I mean, Harrison Ford and Carrier Fisher would just tell Lucas to his face when they thought his dialogue was bad and dumb. While poor Ahmed Best got dragged along by Lucas turning his silly on set skit for Jar Jar into the characters entire personality.
Don't get me wrong, I think everyone has softened on the prequels over the intervening years, but lets not forget that they still have huge flaws.
@@Bustermachine It's just nostalgia. I will admit the prequels dialogue as cheese but I still love them. For that matter I love the original trilogy and there is plenty of cheese and overacting in those especially from Luke.
It sounds like the movie REALLY needed an additional year of development. Disney needed to realize it'd be healthier for the franchise to not enforce such unreasonable deadlines even if it hurt their shortterm revenue.
Legit half the problems with this movies plot comes down to trying to maintain the original drafts beats but trying to put a square peg in a round hole I kinda feel bad now
It was never going to be better than the originals or the prequals simply because the original creator wasnt involved.
It's basically a high budget fan fiction movie.
@@BoleDaPole I don't agree with that at all. Tons of excellent Star Wars stories have been told without the direct involvement of the creator. Most of the EU was exactly that. At most, there were things Lucas rubber stamped with his seal of approval after they were created or when they were in the process of being made by others.
Well the original script was bad as well, but the circumstances being that if followed the first two movies it's as good as we were gonna get, I believe.
@@BoleDaPole I would argue that JJ thinking "true Star Wars is A New Hope and Empire, screw the prequels" and Rian thinking "the fans hate not being able to moving past A New Hope and Empire" doomed whatever trilogy they tried to make. The Force Awakens have no references to the Prequels and The Last Jedi ends up retreading the ground the prequels already covered while breaking the characters in the process.
these movies betrayed me too my core they destroyed han luke leia chewie lando and more they even made this frenchise oke it was already woke before disney even bought it i can name charecters in the old eu way better than rey and yes these charecters are way better than both rey and ben solo plus rey is not a true skywalker in the sequel trilogy they killed off han luke leia including their very own son ben solo why kill off a charecter after that said charecter gets redeemed and brought back to the light
what a gorgeous trainwreck. every time i look at footage from the movie divorced from context i’m like “man this looks nice. i wish the movie was good”
"I wish the movie was good" is uniting a ton of old school Star Wars fans right now. Everything after George is just fan fic now.
@@magicalglitch8801 i mean i still think the prequels are dogshit so for me it’s less “everything after george” and more “everything from 1999 onward”
@@quanicle101 That's a respectable stance. My sister agrees. She's happy to let it end with the first 2 or 3 movies. I didn't mind the prequels too much. I'm one of the very few people who actually liked the midichlorians thing.
@@magicalglitch8801 i can see how some people might like the the idea of making someone’s force abilities something that’s measurable. but i personally preferred the ESB explanation of the force where it’s more metaphysical and less about how many magical bugs you have living in your bloodstream
It doesn't even look nice. Its oversaturated garbage.
I think the main problem is that they had all these cool shots they wanted in the movie, but rather then giving some of them up to better the plot, they twisted the plot to get those shots into the film.
the writing advice "kill your darlings" would have really helped here. sometimes you need to get rid of the things you love in most for the sake of the overall story.
In their defense/ to play Devil's advocate, when doing Star Wars you can't really be too sure if the replacement shot you'll be creating instead of your dream shot is going to be any easier to produce, and the low price of "Have horses in makeup run 20ft on a soundstage" looks really good on the producer's budget list.
Not just shots, but also characters and scenes. And despite this tendency to hold onto story elements through multiple drafts of the script, Finn's story was the one they ended up cutting the most.
Innovative technique called 'backwards filmmaking'
Also all those shots look like shit
I can't get over it that someone at Disney thought that the fans would hate seeing Coruscant and especially the Jedi Temple after all those decades ...
This absolutely proves, that no one at Disney (at least in this triology) knows anything about Star Wars lore
The idea of it being a crypt world is also really interesting. Could play into the idea that only the upper parts of the planet were evacuated and the rest of the dark underbelly is still there, becoming a mix of nar shadaa and korriban
I think it shows just how out of touch they were.
The only thing disney knows is "Fans hate the prequels and love the originals"
No one at Disney knows S*** about Star Wars lore - and what is more, they don't CARE.....
@@kenetickups6146 Well, they were right about that at least.
Finn leading a stormtrooper rebellion would have been so cool. It would make his past relevant and important to his development.
Also it would've been a massive call back to Star Wars Rebels. Heck he could have been related to Zare Leonis, which would've been LEGENDARY. He could've been a descendant of Leonis's sister, now THAT would have been awesome (and tragic tbf)
But alas, Disney are racists, can't have a black man be truly important in a story.
It is absolutely wild how much better Trevorrow’s story is!
@@ObeseChess I wouldn't say that. I watched a read through of the script and while it has good concepts its still not good. In this video he only really hits on the best aspects of the script and avoids the dumb parts.
@@paddyq3235 oh, I read it too! It wasn’t perfect, but I thought it was quite a bit better than what we got.
I'd argue that "somehow, Palpatine has returned" also undermines the ending, because... if he could come back from death once, he could do it again? What is it that makes this death so final when getting chucked into an exploding reactor core didn't do him in permanently? Say what you want about Dark Empire, but it at least gave an explanation for HOW Palpatine returned, and WHY his death at the end of that storyline would be permanent.
Of all the issues I have with this film (and there are many) this is one of the most fundamental for me, and I feel like I’ve talked about this in the same way you describe it here.
I’m not familiar with the Dark Empire stories, what’s the explanation they give there?
@@kylemaw988 So, a lot of this will sound familiar, because Rise of Scubwalker cribs shamelessly from Dark Empire, despite Dark Empire having been decried by Sequel-defenders as a story so bad it justified rebooting the post-Return of the Jedi setting.
So, Palpatine in Dark Empire had set up a cloning program in case of his own untimely demise. When he dies, he just possesses one of his young clone bodies. BUT! The clones are not capable of housing him permanently; sooner or later, they burn themselves out, forcing him to repeat the process. So he hits upon the idea of possessing the body of one of Leia and Han's children - they're all Force sensitive, and so should be able to handle the strain.
Of course, this plan fails, because a Jedi named Empatojayos Brand gets in front of Palpatine as he tries to make the transition between his final clone body and the infant Anakin Solo. Taken directly from Wookiepedia: "Brand grasped Palpatine's spirit and took it prisoner within himself. Being eaten alive by the darkness within him, Brand sensed the despair and anger within Palpatine as he died. Palpatine spoke through the Jedi one last time before he died, cursing the Skywalker bloodline. Brand bade farewell and died, carrying Palpatine's spirit with him to be held prisoner for eternity by every Jedi who had become one with the Force, never to be resurrected again."
So basically, that "And I am alll the Jedi!" stuff at the end of TRoS? Imagine that, but actually decent.
Yeah, I'd completely disagree with him that it doesn't matter how Palpatine returned. It absolutely matters to make the conclusion of the story mean anything. What's different about this death? Not that anyone really cares about future Star Wars movies after the sequel trilogy. But in theory it'd be good to explain how the villain is back so we can be sure he's not coming back again.
@@Flaris I mean it's fairly obviously he had a parachute under his robe at the end of ROTJ. We know that space has air based on General Grievous's "clothes" moving as he walks along the outside of the ship in episode 3, so it's entirely plausible that Palpatine paraglided to another planet.
Well I don't want to spoil it for you, but somehow Palpatine returned.
One of the things about the sequel trilogy that really let me down but I hear virtually no commentary on is how they abandoned the cinematic language of the Kurosawa inspired original trilogy. For instance, there was time lapse, flashback, slow motion and a ton of other cinematic techniques that were not present in the originals. The cinematic language of the og trilogy was such an integral part of its identity, the screen wipes and cowboy frames. Sticking to that toolkit is part of what really makes you feel like you are watching a Star Wars movie. When you add a bunch of new things then it loses that specific identity and you feel like you could be watching anything-a Nolan film or something.
I just remembered the screen wipes! Small detail but it adds a lot of character. Too campy for jj abrams I guess
The fact that literally every other Disney Star Wars product (Mandalorian, Book of Boba, Bad Batch, etc) uses the screen-wipes and other OT techniques makes the sequel trilogy more foreign from OG Star Wars
I mean the biggest part of The Last Jedi is the Rashomon retelling of Luke’s story, which is directly pulled from the titular Rashomon, a Kurosawa movie. TLJ also had a fair amount of screen wipes and references to media that isn’t Star Wars. The Abrams ones went away from it but it’s not a sequel trilogy problem.
I get what youre saying here but that seems unnecessarily restrictive.
Sure, Lucas drew heavily from Kurosawa but he also loves Ozu. Movie Serials and old westerns were hugely influential along with WW2 Fighter Plane picturesļ
Lots went into the look of star wars. Tbh the guy who best understood and replicated that was Rian Johnson, who looked heavily at a wide array of international films and allowed their influence to settle in
@@Riley-nq3tc For real, Rian Johnson understood Star Wars way better than JJ... unfortunately, he want too farnon a few places. He definitely needed some other guy to remind him not to sniff his own farts
I think the most important line here is the last few sentences:
"People forget that making movies take time." - but it is not the audience which should be reminded, it's the producers and the film studios.
Looking at the time table in 2017 should have raised red flags all over the place.
It is so sad that the inability or unwillingness to shift the release further back into the year 2020, brought us this thing.
That for me is the big take away from this video. I'm not as angry towards the creators botching the final chapter and more so understanding that this film was given a heavy load that was not going to be easy to sort out. Especially with the time they had and that condensing the film and bending the script to the point of breaking was something that was forced rather than consciously done.
That's a problem for the whole series. TLJ is the one with the fastest writing time
Totally agree, wish that they did the same way with the other trilogies and had three years in between each entry rather than two
@@marcsoren7 or they have everything, effectively, ready to go from day one and get most of the work out of the way before the first movie even hits theatres, like how Lord of the Rings was filmed
@@bradleyjacinto7732 the issues started in the TFA, no amount of time (other then prior to TFA) would have helped
I think the fundamental problem with the sequel trilogy is that it can't justify it's own existence. It tries to "complete" a saga that was already finished by George Lucas in 2005. Together, the PT and OT are the story of Anakin Skywalker, with a clear narrative/theme. The sequels were "studio movies" created with the IP in mind first, and a story (if you can even call it that) later, mostly meant to sell merchandise and cashout on nostalgia.
You're exactly right. It's clear that the story of the first 6 movies was about Anakin primarily, and once he dies in ROTJ that is done. They should have made this new trilogy totally differently but wanted to cash in on cheap nostalgia to guarantee audiences would show up saying "member stah wahs!"
Absolutely so. I dont undrstand why everyone hates sequels... let them play with the IP, let them create more jobs for the VFX companies, bring in more taxes, etc. none of this undoes the originals and the impact they had on the culture.
The prequels set out to do the exact same thing. Lucus wanted the money.
@@genetenzwrong.
@@ValJediit does undo their legacy cause it’s canon. The skywalker bloodline is extinct.
The fact that Finn rallying former stormtroopers to the resistance wasn’t used is so painful. Would have been a huge moment for his character and brought him full circle, instead of him unfortunately just being along for the ride in the other movies
Also it would've been a really strong movie moment, like when the Rivendell elves arrive to the Helm's Deep before the battle starts.
remember black people don't sell in China and China is Disney's number one market for films.....can't have that pesky Finn doing anything center stage : /
REY!!!!! REY!!! REYYYYY!!!
Wasted, just Wasted.
Press F to pay respects for Mr. Boyega.
@@DeathSithe92
What are you talking about?
Gay people don't sell in China (and not so much for culture but straight up government censorship)
Black people are fine...?
Every single (and I mean EVERY) alternate telling of the rise of skywalker is better than what we got.
And they are all terrible. That says alot.
personally i think the infinite snoke clones vs luke one was worse, but not by much.
@@T-5secondsWould have at least been memorable, imagine seeing that on the big screen. That would be worth buying a ticket for, in an ironic twist
18:35
Wow I can’t believe someone on the main production team managed to completely misunderstand what the prophecy said. Not once did it denote that a Skywalker would balance the force, only The Chosen One, it’s actually incredible that they botched that up and that’s what drove the writing to Rey taking the Skywalker name, unbelievable.
If it had said Skywalker specifically, the Jedi council would look even more stupid for refusing to train Anakin at first. Not only does the boy have the most powerful force potential of any being in the galaxy, but he also has the exact name of the chosen one! How can you look at this kid and say “nah, it’s okay, we don’t need him”.
Rey, identity theft is a really serious problem. Especially stealing from dead people who can come back as force ghosts and see the theft happening in real-time.
They might as well have been right though, the skywalkers were the chosen ones, or at least the ones best suited to save the galaxy. Extremely strong, anakin was created by the force. Not sure if he was created to bring balance or if he is literally just the force balancing itself like an equal/opposite reaction to the dark side meddling but yeah. Rey wanting to take up the mantle of skywalker makes sense, and I might have liked it if Palpatine's defeat made sense and the movies were good and had more setup for this.
Also, it said that the Chosen One would be born from the Force, similar to Jesus. Anakin was and Rey was not.
The Skywalker line ended, yet the Palpatine line endured.
Great ending, eh? No. No it isn't. =P
Its fascinating, its like every version they had good and bad ideas, and they ended up taking the bad ideas and leaving the good on the chopping block
And forgetting entirely the themes that those ideas were created to support. So they got a series of superficial set pieces that looked good in isolation but told a garbage story when strung together. And why did the trilogy have to be bound together by Palpatine anyway. It could just as easily have connected to the prequels through the prophecy of the chosen one.
@@jofujino When I left the theater my impression was that it had a lot of cool scenes, but nothing to connect them. Just a lot of 'and this is happening now'
@@cameronwilsey9334 Yeah it was sensory bombardment. I couldn't even tell if I liked it or not after seeing it the first time because I was so mentally drained. All I could remember about it was the ending, too.
@@jofujinoBecause JJ Abrams hates the prequels, so the movie distanced itself from them as much as possible.
Kinda ironic how "The Rise of Skywalker" ended with the bloodline's extinction and a Palpatine stealing that name.
Something, something “muh theems”.
She didn't steal anything
He could save other people's names from extinction, but not his own. Ironic
.... I am so mad now that I've had it framed to me this way.
Damn you sanic
Where waz Zombie Skywalker... anyone?
44:39 Just the thought of Kylo playing that song over his built-in helmet stereo is sending me into the stratosphere
That 6 seconds of this video had me more stoked about Kylro Ren than I ever was at any point in watching any of the actual 3 films LOL
And the stormtroopers just looking at him walk by and going, "Did you hear that sh*t?"
th-cam.com/users/clipUgkx_3Br4Fb5Kca416CGEISZ3r6pXlJwiI7S?si=Isr2bXzRY1yNqJOC
hey i actually thought the same so i clipped it
I don't think I've ever seen a better example of mocking something by simply describing it.
Oof
Got Timestamp? Or this is for the whole video?
I like the slight tone of disdain when he says "Abrams thought there was too much exposition."
I still don’t understand how Rey knew how to sail a boat, in rough waters nonetheless, as we all know: she’s been on a sand bucket planet all her life. Was sailing included in her Jedi training or somethin’? Lmao
She's just a genius who knows how to do everything. That's the problem with her as a character. She has no faults, she's great at everything from the very start.
i mean she knew how to fly the millennium falcon without any proper training in the force awakens
@@marvinmuller1085 but that can be explained through her salvaging giving her some knowledge of how spaceship parts work. And maybe she’s flown smaller ships around the planet before. But…a sea vessel? No way there would even be parts for that on a desert
@@violetlavi2207 You can explain away some stuff, but other stuff like her being able to defeat the antagonist of the 1st film in a light saber duel despite having never even seen one before, you can't. The Jr. protagonist in the 1st prequel an 1st OT didn't even battle.
I think some of these issues arose out of the politics they were selling with the movie. The movie had a really strong focus on 'the culture war' and leftist messages, and I think that lead to some questionable decisions - like the above mentioned protagonist beating the antagonist in the first battle, with no training. The problem is if they have the antagonist initially win, like they should in any typical story arch, they risk backlash from the people in it for the politics.
Her whole 15 minutes of Jedi training covered sailing too?
Palpatine should have been an evil force ghost. Would have been a lot more intimidating and even horrifying if done right.
Hell him possessing Ben Solo would’ve been a lot better then being a clone.
any return of Plapatine ruins Vaders sacrifice imo
Somehow the Ghost Zombie Demon Pirate LeSheev returned
Sidious returning at all undermines the skywalker saga as a whole and is just bad writing.
Problem with that is I think its either canon or heavily implied that the sith cannot become force ghosts. They lack the spiritual balance necessary
Not concluding Episode IX on Coruscant was a questionable choice considering that the Tatooine ending as produced only matters to audiences, not the characters, as Coruscant should have. And not letting Finn develop towards the trooper rebellion - a great and organic idea - is beyond reason.
😭😭 i wanted that so much
JJ had a problem separating the characters from the audience since TFA, you could practically hear Rey saying “you’re Han Solo, from Star Wars (1977)!”
@nykcarnsew2238 he had also problems creating original characters, original planets, and original situations. And also following up on events of the previous movies, just retconing everything into whatever without setup. BB-8 is most likely a creation from the VFX team.
The fact that you forced me to hear the phrase “Big Sheev’s Nasty Nut” and yet I still enjoyed this video should speak to its quality.
Good thing I wasn't drinking anything when he said it.
When I tell you my jaw DROPPED
Creamy Sheev strikes again.
it reminds me of when Jenny Nicholson was talking about cloning and how Palpatine should have been looking, and I quote, "smoooooth and sexy!"
@@Sekushiwolf He can't keep getting away with it!
That's like actually amazing, EVERY other version of the plot is better than the one they went with...
Not even close
I swear every iteraton sounded like an infinitely more interesting story to tell than what we got in the end.
I had forgotten most of the movie, so hearing him retell the plot as originally intended made me wonder why I didn’t enjoy it and I almost went back to rewatch it…
Then, yeah. That was the original story, not what we got. I feel cheated.
Every time they took the story apart, they put it back together a little worse than it was before. And at the same time they continued to hold on to story elements that no longer served their original purpose.
Oof. I'm an amateur writer, and I know from unfortunate experience that "this image/scene is too cool, I don't want to cut it!" NEVER ends well. Hearing that sentiment pop up so often in this video explains a lot.
Rick McCallum's anecdote about George ruthlessly cutting out anything not necessary to the story always comes to mind whenever I think about editing.
@christopherverhoef9112
I've been published since 2014 and I still have that problem. While proofreading I'll find myself not wanting to cut content that I think is cool. So I try to find a way to make it relevant to varied degrees of success.
It could absolutely end well if done the exact way they didn't do... have a clear direction for the entire trilogy from start to finish. You know... a PLAN?
Instead, they split the movies up with different writers and directors.
Imagine Dune was only the first three books... now imagine if the second book was written by Stephen King.
Disney, in its hubris, made all the wrong moves. They're like a spoiled brat that pays tons of money for an endangered animal, abuses it til it dies, then goes back to abusing the wait staff.
If JJ couldn't stay for a full Trilogy, he should have at least worked closely with Rian Johnson, but would that really have worked? And sadly, that original script for episode 9 sounded good. It just needed the same guy writing for episode 8, at least. Even with JJ leaving after episode 7, 8 could have done a lot in tandem with 9 to make that script functional AND satisfying with the exception of the First Order being so powerful so soon after the fall of the Empire.
Really, if Disney didn't scrap the EU, people probably would have been fine; again with the hubris, erasing over two decades of beloved material that only the craziest of fans even read was a silly route to take, and it was all so they didn't have to pay more money... despite dumping four billion dollars on Lucas's lap.
That level of maturity is expected. Disney needed to shove out movies to make out for their multibillion dollar purchase, so they assembled a quick and dumb team who wouldn't be scared of the Star Wars brand (Rian Johnson, for example.)
The entire final encounter was reorganized around an effing horseback charge. Smh.
The Rage Against the Machine track at 44:32, then adjusting the audio at 44:38 to appear as if it's through (Ren's) headphones is funny and brilliant. Too bad this manufactured sequence wasn't in the actual movie, which would have made it a million times better.
It’s so good. The song fits the shot perfectly.
@@brannonkirkhuang I grew up on Star Wars. I was nine when I saw the first movie. Since, someone, somewhere asked themselves, "how can I utterly, spectacularly ruin the childhood of millions in the span of a two-hour movie?" TROS is the tragic, insulting, money-grubbing result.
@@JimHamiltonIII I actually really enjoy episode nine! I just take it for the fun, stupid ride it is. I feel like all Star Wars films are fun and stupid in their own way. That said, I re-watched the scene from this video of Kylo walking with that song playing in his helmet like ten times 😭😭😭
I was like half dissociated watching this because I'm pulling an all nighter, so when his tone shifted making fun of Kylo's emo moment, smash cutting to the uncensored needle drop of Killing In The Name Of's ending... I *howled* with laughter. And then laughed until I cried when the audio changed to sound like he was pummeling his ears with it the Sonic force of a Death Star, to the confusion of his troops. 10/10 gag, no notes.
@@TransDrummer1312the stormtroopers look at each other “wtf you hearing this?”
Personally, I always thought that Palpatine's story about creating life (and the preserving as well for that matter) was a massive lie, specifically done to manipulate Anakin to the Dark Side, and I like that George Lucas left it ambiguous and an exercise to the audience.
Same. I never liked that. To be honest even as a kid I was never super into Leah being Luke’s sister, seemed awfully convenient to me. So having palpatine be the grandad really would’ve been pushing it for me.
@@iwritechecksatthegrocerystore As far as I know, from some old articles I remember reading about crafting the first trilogy, originally Leia was not Luke's sister - that's why that kiss exists - but Luke was supposed to have a sister, and she was going to be somebody Luke would be searching for in some later movie. But Lucas' divorce and some other things made him decide to make a trilogy, at least then, not anything longer like he had sort of planned originally (there seems to have been kind of plan A, plan B, and possibly even plan C, depending on how well the first movie did - one of them being "Splinter of the Minds Eye", published as a novel, but that would have been made into a movie if Lucas had been able to make just one sequel to the first movie - but then Lucas decided he'd make a whole new plan after that divorce) and while Lucas wanted to keep the sister they then decided to combine the characters of Leia and the unknown sister instead of introducing a new character, and so Leia became Luke's secret sister.
Also, I remember reading that there may have been some hints in some interviews back in the 80s that originally the plan may have been to kill Han, after a bit of a love triangle problem, and Leia then ending up with Luke, in the conventional "hero gets the girl" style. Well, before she was made into his sister that is. Possibly that was ditched because Han turned out to be way too popular as a character. And while during the first and the second movie there were teams, team Han and team Luke, when it came to who she should end up with, I gather that team Han was rather bigger or at least noisier, and that affected at least somewhat the decision to go with Han/Leia. Of course, after that making Leia and Luke into siblings nicely solved the problem of the main hero losing in love because that would have been a bit of a bummer no matter how popular the Han/Leia pairing was, and maybe give the Luke/Han bromance some unwanted complications.
But yep, I agree that connecting Palpatine to the birth of Anakin was a bit too much. It would have been much better if he had simply been clearly told to be a half-orphan when we first see him, with his mom maybe having had a short marriage or affair with a man she really didn't know much of anything about because he had died in some accident or something almost immediately after they had gotten together and he had gotten her pregnant. Some nobody. And then Palpatine just realizes the kid's huge potential when he first sees him.
@@pohjanakka4992 You are correct about the situation involving "Splinter in the Mind's Eye".
The same thing with the "strike me down" line in the throne room - it was to manipulate Luke to the Dark Side. There doesn't need to be some stupid rationale about "oh I have another body to inhabit after this one" which this video's creator likes for some reason. It was literally just that Palpatine wanted Luke to lose control of his emotions, and he knew a rookie Jedi with minimal training wasn't actually a threat to his life.
@@pohjanakka4992 ...some of that's correct. Originally, Luke and Leia were not meant to be siblings (although they were in the earlier drafts of A New Hope, but that was when Luke was still a 60-something war veteran). George planned to have Luke's sister be someone else who had been hidden away by their father (who was not Vader initially) and trained as a Jedi. However, during the production of The Empire Strikes Back, George decided to make Vader and Anakin one in the same, and after deciding he didn't want to make a whole new trilogy (after just how difficult the productions of Episodes lV and V were) he decided to rework the whole lost sister subplot by making Leia Luke's sister (which makes sense, since she was basically the only named girl in Star Wars at the time). This is probably untrue, but I think George was leaning in this direction as early as when The Empire Strikes Back was in production, considering how at the end, Luke and Leia communicate through the Force in a manner suspiciously similar to Luke and Vader's conversation. It may be that George just decided not to tell anyone about this until Return Of The Jedi was being made (because of course he would).
As for Han, as far as I know, Lawrence Kasdan and Harrison Ford both petitioned for Han to die in Episode Vll (Harrison because he was sick of playing Han at this point, and Lawrence for... whatever reason), but George shot them both down as he didn't see any reason why such a thing needed to happen in the story.
Palpatine is not connected to Anakin's birth. Anakin was created by the midi-chlorians in order to fulfill the prophecy of destroying the Sith and bringing balance to the Force (this would've been properly explained in George's Sequels, but of course, we didn't get that story).
"Because... Ray needs someone to scream her name." - is such a beautiful way of describing the function of the entire side cast in TROS, thank you! :D
You mean Finn cause the other cast actually did something.
I would admit that the idea that Skywalker would evolve into a messianic-like title, bestowed on a hero destined to correct an imbalance maligning each generation could have been very compelling. Too bad that the Rise of Skywalker completely falls flat to communicate this idea.
Literally the Avatar(the bender of four elements.)
I truly hope they bring more of Ahsoka's Anakin into the future of SW, at least they made a good decision with him for once.
😂😂 and then george lucas's plagiarism of Dune would have finally been complete
Once it was pointed out that every Star Trek movie HAS to destroy the Enterprise I couldn’t help but notice how eager Abrams was to smash the Falcon.
i forgot if the falcon got smashed or not
The Enterprise doesn't get destroyed in every movie though... What?
@@HaleFire7They're talking about the 3 new "Star Trek" movies not the real Star Trek movies.
The scene of Kylo walking with his crew listening to Rage Against The Machine is the best thing ive seen in a long time XD. I only wish that it was in the theatrical cut
I was like "okay, we got it, cut away..." and then the headphones gag hit and all was well
@@Virjunior01, and the stormtroopers just looking at him as he passes by and going "Did you just hear what I just heard?" was the icing on top.
🤌Perfecto.
I still dont understand why they didn't make Rey's self made weapon not be a spear-esque weapon. Could even make the blade part detacheable to be used as a standard lightsaber if pinched for space. You know, tying to her earlier combat expertise, making it really her weapon forged for her own path ahead, rather than "more of the same, but yellow!"
Right? Or at least make it a double bladed saber, that's the closest to her "staff" she can really get. Although a light saber pike has been seen in legends and other material so it's not a crazy idea. That's the point though, these movies actively work against new ideas, and just insist on rehashing everything we've seen cause it's "cool." 😂😂
@@dexterbunco4212 I retroactively HATE the force awakens. When it came out, I actually liked it quite a bunch. As the first movie of a trilogy, and it was meant to be the first movie of a trilogy (unlike, say A New Hope), it set up some interesting possibilities imo. Everything could be more polished, that is empty pseudo-criticism, so what stood out to me was what seemed to be the seeds of lots of interesting potentials... later movies confirmed were all just that, an impression, they weren't there because the last director is the same one and he delivered none of it either. Just another unsatisfying, empty "mystery box" - all hype, all external decoration, nothing comes out of it because there was never any content in it.
What a disappointment.
The problem with TROS start with TFA.
A soft reboot and slavishly repeating the OT would never be anything be unsatisfying. Especially when they didn’t include the one thing that made the OT so great: The characters and their relationships.
I feel like Disney has been rebooting alot of shows, like the OG disney animations turned live action. Then, when they want to deviate like for Mulan as well, it upsets everyone.
Disney is a mess.
@@MrMinecraftGamer456 Well deviation is fine as long as you don't stray too far. Clone Wars showed this rather well.
The problem is that JJ is extremely shallow. He saw A New Hope and Empire as the only true Star Wars and that George Lucas was a bad director, so there were absolutely no references to the prequels at all in TFA and he probably felt that making A New Hope again would somehow get the franchise back on track. He also felt that prequels = bad because politic scenes = bad, resulting in the worst worldbuilding I've ever scene. The result being that the New Republic only exists in a single solar system? The rebels are the Empire, but also the rebels are also the resistance. Also the First Order reigns already, but also the Emperor reigns, but apparently the First Orders need more ships for some reason? Also the Empire gets outnumbered by...Lando?
Palpatine can't die. But also Palpatine wants to die. Also Palpatine dies. Okay then. Good to know we'll never understand the political situation in the galaxy, they just have a forever Emperor in charge now.
Especially when it undoes all character arcs and achievements of original trilogy. Empire hasn't fallen, Sith aren't gone, Han and Leia are not together, they are shitty parents, Luke left everyone like a coward, no Jedi order, New Republic is destroyed in seconds, another Death Star...and now Palpatine is back.
Agreed with everything you just said. Even though storytelling from 1977-'83 is different and must evolve, Disney wrecks everything. Lucas sold his franchise for $12 billion, just like Jim Henson had every intent to sell his workshop to Disney before his death to get cash grabs. Lucas and The Hensons wanted unlimited bankrolling for projects, but in return conveyor belt screenwriters are given the job of world crafting on a tight schedule. Disney is only interested in selling merch, building ride attractions, and repeat Blu Ray releases. Another thing that sticks in my craw is the toxic fandom SW has. It ties directly into Gamergate because scifi/fantasy/anime has always been marketed to white middle class males, which is why they felt "attacked by diversity", not that Disney correctly addresses racism, feminism, and LGBTQ relationships. Then there's the 'shipper crap, IDGAF if you like Stormpilot, Reylo, or FinnRose all that works ONLY in fanart and fanfics. In the OT Leia and Han were CLEARLY going to happen, Kennedy stated Dameron was not going to be a LGBTQ character, that was not how Dameron and Finn were written. Oscar Issac is a flirtatious actor and man, and the only reason why his character was given an entire life DURING TFA's filming was because of his looks. The Disney corporation pays lipservice to the LGBTQ community, it donates money to the GOP, and Disney family members are legacy execs and they are racist and homophobic, they would never sign off on an LGBTQ character for this kind of franchise. And the cast and Abrams pushed shipper crap because they knew the films were fails and depended on social media pot stirring to make their money back.
Lightspeed jumping made me want to die. The whole sequence just kept dancing on hyperspace’s grave.
And I’d understand if they mentioned something about new droids being able to calculate hyperspace lanes much faster. But by god. They don’t
even then they jump from some weird impossible crystal spires to the middle of a floating city and theres not going to be a direct path to accelerate/decellerate
Here's something that might have helped the trilogy: *a consistent plot*
That was J.J.'s job, and he failed miserably, just like with Lost.
@@derkeheath5172Absolutely!! That mystery box crap can work for TV shows, you have time to figure out how it all comes together. With movies though, it just creates confusion. It's like he couldn't help himself, and just threw in too many of his mysteries. The saber, Reys backstory, what's up with Finn, why doesn't Han have the Falcon, where's Luke, and on and on!! Handing it off to multiple directors, without a plan was a HUGE mistake too.
There was something of a plan, but it was thrown so completely off the rails by The Last Jedi that the original director quit and J.J. had to come in to course correct the course correction.
@@mariokarter13 Maybe, but I'm going to press X to doubt. If there was something of a plan, that something was likely rather vague and not necessarily very helpful for the next writer. Too much about The Force Awakens seems halfassed for to have much faith in JJ's planning.
This is basically some guys having 10 story beat ideas, and then playing connect the dots, the story beat only exists to justify the existence of the following story beat
this is one of the most honest and fair looks at the behind the scenes of this film I have seen, but im only 20 minutes in.
i seriously hate the entire sequel trilogy due to kk firing the best team of people only to replace him with j j and j j was a bland choice to replace colin and derek the movie gives george lucas the big f you and a big f you to real hardcore star wars fans iv been a hardcore star wars fan since 1997 these films are terrible riddled with pllotholes and things never ever getting fully explained people say the last jedi is the best film since empire which i serioiusly strongly disagree slipknot 2014 album did way better than last jedi and force awakens including way better than the rise of skywalker the reason why am saying this that slipknot made a album without joey or paul and made something as hard and as heavy as iowa and self titled heck even we are not your kind did way better than the star wars sequel trilogy sorry i broght up music but im going to say something thats gong to piss manbabys star wars sequel fans off batman forever was a way better film incuding stand by me and of course pee wees big adventure and batman 1989 and the dark knight the dark knight rises and batman begins and batman returns than the entire sequel trilogy
Eh? How can you be ‘fair and honest’ about…behind the scenes? How can you NOT be? Your comment doesnt make any sense.
Yuup
@@turtleanton6539 if you give it time and thought the entire sequel trilogy is pure trashfire all 3 films are riddled with plotholes that never ever get explained
@@thereturnofdarthcaedus not reading all that but I'm happy for you. or sorry that happened.
It's crazy that one of the biggest flaws is because JJ Abrams doesn't believe characters don't have object permanence. Truly, a creative genius
He united Star Wars and Star Trek fans..
@@connycontainer9459 into disliking his movies, yeah
Call him by his true name. "Lense Flare"
....He DOESN'T believe that characters DON'T have object permanence? As in, he believes they do have it?
Is that a typo, or am i missunderstaning something here?
@@random.3665it should read JJ Abrams is legitimately re t8rded
I dislike Trevorrow's draft as well, it feels like the sort of thing that would require multiple movies to build up, but at least he made an effort.
The worst part of Rey taking the name Skywalker at the end is that it was set up so well in the Burning Man part for her to instead say Rey…just Rey but this time being proud of it instead of sad like before
I loved when she was the daughter of nobodies
They could have had her learn and take her mother's name if she didn't want to embrace her Palpatine side. The Skywalker thing was hated by everyone. Maybe they'll retcon it in the new movie.
It's very strange to me they felt this need to impart a hero can come from anywhere. And its referenced that heroes don't just come from high status families like the Skywalkers.
Did they all forget Anakin was a child slave who rose to prominence?
Not to mention that it was one of the primary functions of the Jedi that they took force sensitive children from every conceivable background to teach and train. Force sensitivity and age were pretty much the only selection criteria.
I don't mind the theme. I also don't mind the theme they had to try to show that things that get "thrown away" can become super valuable when looked at from another perspective etc. BUT! If you are a story teller you CANNOT sacrice story and character for THEMES. I makes it so that people don't like your story and won't get the THEMES either. The production crew of Rise of Skywalker got hyperfocused on themes and scenes and not Story and Character and it really suffered because of that. So sad.
Rey was the same though yet people love anakin but hate rey ?????
@@ghostbuster7575 Yeah, but they didn’t undermine Anakin by retroactively making him part of some really important pre-established family. The whole point is that he could have been anyone, he just happened to be a Skywalker. By going back and making Rey a Palpatine, after they already had a perfectly workable “Rey is the child of nobodies” thing going, they undermined that theme. If you’re trying to make a story with the message of “dynasties don’t matter“ making your main character retroactively the child of one of the most important characters in the previous stories sends some pretty major mixed signals.
"When everyone's super, NO ONE WILL BE." - Syndrome
They raised the question of what Rey's friends would think if they discovered she had a dark lineage. They raised the question of how she would act knowing where she came from after finding herself in the last film.
They then did not bother to answer the question.
They retconned one of the best story beats of the last film for hardly any pay off.
It also kills me that there's been so many opportunities for a better story in Rise that they consistently ignore.
They didn't even bother to ask the question. I'm STILL waiting to learn what Finn wanted to ask/tell(?) Rey...
JJ's mystery box at the finest
They didn't even bother to take 30 seconds to explain how Maz Kanata got the lightsaber
@@DumbstuffwatcherThe only question they needed to answer was the one that The Last Jedi setup, what if Rey was an original character, original person, living her own situations that aren't a verbatim remake of Luke Skywalker's adventures but she is a woman as the only difference.
And apply the same to every character
@@rosvel92 What if the last Skywalker (Kylo) isn't redeemed? What if the last Jedi is gone and these new characters, with their own stories and no special legacies, have save the day without a Skywalker? What if the bad guy isn't just a D-grade Emperor rip off (who wears stylish gold housecoats, to be fair)? What if I actually don't know what will happen next?
Nope, the Emperor's back (between movies) and stuff...
1:15:37
"buries Luke and Leia's lightsaber for all eternity at the one place Luke couldn't wait to get away from in the one material that the guy who built it couldn't stand."
damn
And in front of the house where his aunt and uncle were brutally shot down and burned
This really points out that the whole trilogy was garbage from the 1st. Lots of people blame Rian, but he was just trying to take JJs regurgitation of a new hope and to make something other than an equally regurgative version of empire. The fact that JJ had to conclude the trilogy by attempting to erase the last jedi and establish an act 2 and 3 to the force awakens all in one is really his own fault and that of the story group for not having a more fully fleshed out story for the entire trilogy in the first place. Letting 3 different writer/directors play a game of telephone with the story was a bad call. No wonder Colin Trevaro walked away from episode 9: he was in a no win position.
I think you just nailed it on the head, having 3 different writers was a bad move. With the original trilogy George was the writer for all 3 movies
You both forget that the one' calling the tune was Kathleen Kennedy and her storygroup. Shortly before the TLJ was released a member of the storygroup gave an interview with the LA Times iirc detailing the weeks of meetings they had with RJ before he went into isolation to write TLJ.
The failure of the trilogy was the fault of the person in charge, Kennedy.
@@arthurballs9632 That's not how movie making works why do you guys have the weird hate-boner for this one specific woman that you have to blame every failure a corporation and makes solely on her?
@@SOMEGUY7893 Reading comprehension issues or deliberately misprotraying what I wtote? I also mentioned the storygroup... twice.
The president of a company is of course ultimately to blame when its showpiece project derails so badly. Especially when the company preside was personally steering the project.
KK is entitled to credit when things go right, but she doesn't get to scapegoat JJ or RJ for derailing the project.
@@arthurballs9632 Don't forget even the CEO got involved in the making of rise. Probably because Disney is very aware of their star wars losing goodwill
A note about The Room: The crew tried to make The Room a decent film, but Tommy fired anyone who questioned him and he never ever took advice from anyone. He was a dictator on set, and he squandered away a great crew and millions of dollars.
The Duel of the Fates draft actually makes so much sense. It's as if they took bits from the actually somewhat coherent story and rearanged them into the monstrosity we witnessed.
Eh it was better but if you read through the whole of you'll see plenty more issues. Not quite as many as we got in the end but enough to sour it. At least it actually gave Rey the double bladed lightsaber, still don't understand why they never gave it to her in the end.
@@StofenThe1stIn fairness, it was a first draft. It did have a lot more potential as a coherent narrative, though!
@@StofenThe1stat least it was just mediocre and not bad 😂
@@DuplexWeevil337 I guess so. At least it included my beloved super star destroyer Eclipse!
My question is just… why?
I have retconned the 3rd trilogy from my brain. The Luke Skywalker story ends with Eps 6. No more, no less.
Star Wars starts at Episode 4 and ends at Episode 6.
That's where everyone should have known to just stop and leave a good thing alone, and move on to something else.
@@wasd____Nah prequels were good, only issue is they were compared to the OG so people found fault in it. The Lucas 6, the rest suck dicks.
@@DKStacker24 Prequels were ripped apart by audiences at the time they were made. They only seem "good" to some people now because the people who were watching them as kids and didn't know a good movie from a bad one are looking back at them through nostalgia-glasses.
@wasd____ Speak for yourself. There were actually a lot of fans then and now of the prequels, and they stand on their own as great cinema. Revenge of the Sith is George Lucas' magnum opus.
The ones that cling to the OT being the only good Star Wars are really a small subset of vocal fans, and if anything, much of their reactions to the prequels were as a result of the movies being different than what they imagined they would be when they saw the original movies as kids.
JJ Abrams is one of those, and that is a big reason why the sequel trilogy is so bad. He prefers his fan theories over what the movies, including the original trilogy, actually say about the Jedi and the Force.
@@shirakou1 "Revenge of the Sith is George Lucas' magnum opus."
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
This makes me sad because literally any of the early scripts would have been leaps and bounds better than what we ended up getting
I’ve never seen a movie devolve throughout its development usually it’s the opposite
JJ Abrams is such a hack lol
JJ Abrams, Chris Terrio and Pablo Hidalgo are living proof that one can know a whole lot about a certain subject while simultaneously either not understand it or be completely clueless as to why people love it
Fuck, every time I hear that Duel of the Fates script summary I get upset. It actually could have saved the trilogy.
It wouldn’t have made sense for Kylo to have been the one to have killed Rey’s parents, because he was still being trained under Luke and wasn’t “Kylo Ren” yet.
With a name change and some corrections it could have saved the trilogy, yes. Instead we got this sterile rendition.
@@matro2 it seems like a Lord of the Rings RIP off in space.
duel of the fates would have been much worse.
@@user-ly2ll5od1r I genuinely believe that resurrecting Palpatine is the absolute lowest and most desperate of any creative decision that could’ve been made. So I’m at a place where I don’t think anything that avoided bringing Palpatine back could be worse. This is as bad as it gets as long as that story point is here.
The Rage Against the Machine moment was such a great comedic break from this in-depth study. Love it!
Holy shit all of this is literally a write's nightmare. They had a good story with character arcs, and they threw it all away for no reason.
It's actually so funny hearing just how many random elements from Duel of the Fates were included in The Rise of Skywalker. I am now firmly confident that this movie was made with sticky notes. Whenever someone was pitching a plot for this movie, whether it be Collin Trevorrow, George Lucas, or who ever else, a few key words were written on sticky notes and plastered all over the writers' room, only for their origin and context to be forgotten about. It's the same thing that happened with the dagger, which was originally meant to be the Dagger of Mortis, as per George's pitch. Someone wrote "dagger" on a sticky note. Someone wrote "childlike alien" on a sticky note. Someone wrote "Kylo giving Rey his life force" on a sticky note.
So disney has been using a method for several years at least in which key elements are filmed with several different somewhat open-ended variations in essence using a "choose Your own adventure" type format allowing for flexibility in editing trying to cover their asses having become too afraid to take the financial risk of gambling on filmmakers and storytellers with the key element for epic works of entertainment in any medium Artists who put the work in front of profits are problematic for the dead sheep in business types and their answer is test audience reaction tailoring to find the right combination via wash rinse repeat forgetting that what made the choose Your own adventure books worth reading for the audience was the choices not the generally mediocre story's but disney kept the choices to themselves and give audiences their attempts to please everyone chasing the box office not timelessness
@@jaycarlisle5770 Holy shit man
Some punctuation
PLEASE
Sticky Note Wars LOL
@@jaycarlisle5770 Thank you for reminding me, they did this with Wish too; their 100th anniversary movie, and it seems to have just been cut together like a jigsaw because doing it this way "gives them more creative freedom". Well, it bombed, so so much for that.
Disney has lost its sense of restraint, since now EVERYTHING can be "fixed in post". They don't even have a story finished when they start shooting/animating - and I don't mean that stories don't get changed during the movie-making process, but that they start without having an end goal; like a marathon where nobody is told where the finish line is.
Okay putting aside the other 200 dumb things about the dagger and the death star wreckage -- what I find hilarious is that the script thinks you need a plot device to tell the protagonists to search the Emperor's chambers in order to find things related to him, as if that isn't the first place you would look.
If the point is just to show where the chambers are in the wreckage, the dagger isn't special and you could get that info from different sources or just by exploring a little on your own.
But the movie treats it as a reveal -- like the dagger is providing the X on a treasure map -- except that the X is on the most obvious place the treasure would be "hidden" and if you didn't have the map you would have looked there immediately, anyway.
Yep it's very dumb on basically all levels. Although I liked the idea of a assasins weapon used to kill lots of people having a connection to sith power etc. But the whole way it was implemented SUCKED.
Good point. This movie really pisses me off.
That is just signature JJ Abrams. Old movie construction memes without any forethought.
It's like Rick Berman writing Star Trek stories involving time travel because "we need time travel".
There is almost nothing dumb about the dagger or the wreckage if you actually follow the plot.
Yes if only we had a character who had been established as an expert at exploring wrecked ships.
I REALLY can't believe Disney allowed any of these Movies to be made without having the story written and properly fleshed out first.
They are a garbage company that just wants money, so they decided to pump out the movies to get said money. They knew people are dumb enough to pay to watch whatever they put out.
$$$$$$$
At the Palpatine part not being a last minute addition. My criticism then is that there is no hinting at his possible existence or pulling of strings or Rey ancestry or anything for the previous 2 movies. How easy to throw the slightest, hint of his leitmotif when Rey sees her reflection, or talking about her family, etc etc. But that would mean the movies actually used leitmotifs correctly instead of nostalgia stirrers.
The recent Halloween trilogy had a lot of the same problems due to a complete lack of planning. Halloween Ends COULD have worked if it had been set up at all in the previous two movies, but it wasn't because they had ZERO idea what they were going to do with either sequel until they started writing it. It's a level of incompetence that should not be tolerated by Hollywood, but is actually encouraged because all they care about is $$$.
I doubt it was actually planned and the team just say so to not look bad. Based on everything we know and have seen Rey was planned to be a solo and they didn't have a plan for the main villain other then snoke or kylo
It wasn't hinted at in the previous movies because TROS is a course correction of a course correction. TLJ was a creative dead end that systematically destroyed every possible plot thread they could've built upon for the finale. Palpatine returning was an act of desperation.
I'm not sure if Palpatines' return was planned from the outset or not, but if it was, I believe the original Intent was to drop hints thorough Episode 8, with him probably making a big return at the very end of the Movie. If that's the case, Rian got rid of that entire plotline, making Palpatines surprise return in 9 a last-ditch attempt by JJ to get the story back on the originally intended course.
But I'm *sure* that Rey being at least related to Palpatine had been planned all along. Just a feeling, but if you listen to Rey's Theme (which was the main centerprise of the Episode VII-Score) I can hear a resemblance to Palpatine's Theme. I wouldn't put it past Williams to make a musical connection there, after all the Victory Celebration-Music from Episode I was also a reworking of the Emperors' Theme.
---
In any case, if Palpatines' return and Rey being related to him had been part of the original plan, I can almost apprechiate than Rian tried to steer things in a different direction for once. These are plotpoints I'd rather not getting explored. Rey being a nobody not related to anyone important is something I actually like more. Same with Palpatine. Better he stayed dead.
Very well said.
Fascinating video. The whole trilogy just felt like it ultimately wasn't made by creative people, even if there were creative ideas here and there.
It was made to generate maximum profit for Disney. I'd like to think they may have learned a lesson or two from this experience but I sadly doubt it.
The Leader isn't creative but she believes she is.
@@arthurballs9632 you mean abbrams since he is the one creating the story right?
@@A2forty 1. TFA was written by Michael Arndt, but his script was rewritten by Lawrence Kasdan (Empire, RotJ) and JJ Abrams.
2. TLJ was written by Rian Johnson, at the personal invitation of Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy. RJ had weeks of meetings with the Lucasfilm storygroup before he went away and wrote the script.
3. TRoS was written by Derek Connolly, Colin Trevorrow, JJ Abrams, and Chris Terrio, with the final two being invited in at the last minute as Trevorrow had walked/been shoved out.
The failure of the trilogy lies mainly with the president of Lucasfilm regardless of the efforts of entry-level gaslighters to find scapegoats for her colossal mismanagement of the trilogy.
it seems like it was made by too many people, trying to put in everyones ideas to please all then reversing those when they aren't received well (cough Rose cough) and listening to much to us on the internet. Yes, we will gripe and complain, but have a solid idea and stick with it despite our whinging and we will respect it, even if we wished it went differently.
I disagree about it not being important to know how Palpatine was brought back. Without that info there is no way to be sure he couldn’t come back again.
that's what they want
Agreed, it's lazy writing as well and it can be bad writing sometimes to bring characters back from the dead.
Episode XII. Palpatine Returns Somehow!
I can't believe there was almost a version of this movie that felt like a movie.
You mean like "Don't Worry, Darling"?
1:15:38 I laughed so hard at your summarization of the ending. Burying the lightsabers in the place Luke couldn’t wait to leave in the material that the man who built it couldn’t stand🤣🤣🤣💀
It perfectly sums up what frustrates me about the sequels, a trilogy I was genuinely excited for and kept giving chances to.
Add Leia being a slave, and Shmi dying, no Skywalker has had pleasent memories of the place
I don't like sand, it's coarse, rough, and irritating, and it gets everywhere
@@Vlad_Ibarr Especially in the crevices of my lightsaber
This is the absolute best video i've seen dissecting this movie - really fantastic work getting to the bottom of it
Something really hit me when talking about the timetables for how this was made. George started writing Episode 1 in 1994 and it wasn't released till 1999 now I'm not saying he probably didn't have some sort of release deadline, but when you look how little time this film had to be made it's absolutely clear the studio doesn't give a shit if it's bad they literally do not care it just has to be out so they can sell billions on the name recognition
He didn't have a release deadline... he OWNED Lucasfilms back then.
@@TheFightingNemohe had a deadline. The distributor sets the release date and Episode I was distributed by 20th Century Fox.
Um. No. George wrote all 9 movies long before 1994. I read all 9 scripts in 1990. And they were written quite some time before then. Perhaps he rewrote Ep 1 in 1994. But he had a full 9 stories (movies-worth of story) done before 1990.
That was a problem from the beginning of the trilogy sadly. Disney’s unreasonable deadlines and JJ’s ego destroyed any chance of seeing a story that at least honored Lucas’ legacy.
@@detah1George stopped working on the franchise shortly after episode 6 due to divorce and raising his children, what you may have read if you aren't lying is some early outlines. He gave up on a sequel trilogy the moment he stepped back and didn't even plan to make one again until he knew he was selling his company as he knew the buyer would want to make a sequel trilogy. Those sequels were dropped by Disney and JJ
I love this style of video, not just mocking the effort of someone, but actually examining what went "wrong"
Considering how little went right there should've been more mockery. He actually gives some credit where only criticism would be appropriate. Their 'good' ideas still sucked & were conceived of completely the wrong way. Writing scenes with only tone or 'wishlist shots' in mind, for example, is a horrible way to craft a compelling story & he should've made more clear how & why it's an absolutely insulting method to utililize & how it led to this dumpster fire.
Mauler's tone is perfect to characterize an abomination like this. It deserves an appropriately scathing response.
@@MistyMountainPathproblem is, mauler is being buddies with and supporting right-wing supporters and can therefore stfu
@thahoule7924 what an embarrassing take. If you hate people because of their political leanings you need to look in the mirror and see we all want what's best with different methods involved. We're on the same team. Powerful people want you to hate your fellow man and disregard their words.
@@BlackJesus1998 The right, by definition, does not want what's best for everyone. The entire foundation of their belief system is reinforcing hierarchies. We are absolutely not on the same team and you don't even need to hate them to be honest about that fact.
@gopack2k again, another ridiculous take. The "right" is a far broader mix of political philosophies than you currently understand. And if you genuinely believe being on the right is about "reinforcing hierarchies" then i have news for you. Both sides do it, whether they're making new ones or not. To boil that down to such a degree that you can't even acknowledge the end goals of someone you don't agree with, instead referring to your own ideology of power structures and post-modernism, speaks to how effectively you have dehumanized those around you. Seriously, maybe try and befriend someone who doesn't agree with you for once.
"What's your name, girl?"
"Rey"
"Rey what? Who are your people?"
"...I don't have people, i'm alone"
Inhales "Rey...Solo"
“I’m Rey Solo Skywalker Kenobi Amidala Organa Jinn Fett Binks”
@@chuckj.4659 Tano Palpatine windu dooku ventress!
@@Jeezes718 Yoda Aveross Unduli Secura Adi-Mundi Quadrineros Dameron (yeah, she’s related to Poe and the random podracer from episode 1, makes about as much sense as everything else in the sequels!)
... the Hutt Vos Kestis the Wise Andor Imwie Kanata Panaka Bilaba Peil Kryze Calrissian Jarrus Dume Syndulla Wren Bridger Orelios LeQuain Erso Guerrera Bonterri Onaka Nu
Could you imagine how much better this story could've been from the beginning if they just established that Rey (or Kira; her name should've been Kira) was the daughter of Han and Leia?
I feel like them needing to replace Snoke after Rian Johnson killed him off is a perfect example of the lack of oversight from Disney on this. The Marvel movies might not have a lot of oversight, but I doubt they would have let James Gunn kill off Thanos during Guardians of the Galaxy. They knew they were heading towards Infinity War, even though they weren't trying to script the movie beforehand or anything. With Star Wars they sorta stumbled in to doing Dark Empire seemingly without deciding that in advance, and I think they really should've so the other movies could build towards it properly.
Honestly, that might have been the entire problem. They didn't know what the end goal of the trilogy was beyond "Good guys win". So Rian Johnson felt free to kill Snoke because Snoke didn't fit in with his idea of what this trilogy should be about.
@@tomhur1He needed to kill Snoke so they would not remake Darth Sidious and Darth Vader all over again. He had no way of figuring out how they would remake it anyway.
They should honestly allowed James Gunn and Guardians to kill Thanos, because the Guardians fighting Thanos would had been more interesting than The Avengers fighting Thanos.
The more I learn about the Episode 9 we almost got, the more pissed I am at the Episode 9 we actually did get.
From what I’ve heard, there was an attempt by some executives to sue Kennedy because they actually were able to watch an edit of the film done by George Lucas that was apparently MUCH better than what was released. In fact, it also was screened to test audiences and received a higher rating as well. Now, it’s not likely the Lucas cut will ever be seen simply because if it was released, it could validate their claim that Kennedy knowingly rejected the better movie in favor of the one that had more of her personal ideas and preferences than Lucas’s cut did.
@@kidwajagstang dude cite your source :3. There's no Lucas cut. And even if it was true, how would that ever be a good ground for a lawsuit.
@@kidwajagstang Lucas was not involved. He said so in an interview he had nothing to do with the films. He simply gave his plans/ideas to Disney, and they bought the ideas but said they may or may not use his stories.
@@10ToesDownWithBass What a backpedal you just made
@@lingricen8077 it's not a backpedal. Lucas was not involved. He wanted to be, and tried to pitch ideas, but Disney rejected him. Even though Disney bought the rights to his new ideas he said they did not use any of them.
I am blown away by how much better the original plot for the film was. Not saying it was Oscar-winning material, but wow is that better than the turd it eventually became.
You said that bad movies don't happen on purpose and for the most part I believe you. But I think bad movies happen when there is a distinct lack of care from studios to produce something meaningful. And that is all I see with the sequels, an apathy to executives to tell a meaningful story in favor of making money.
I also think that some bad movies do happen on purpose, not because the writer means for it to be bad, but rathe they don't realize how ludicrous their vision ultimately is. That's how I personally feel about Rian Johnson and the Last Jedi. I don't think he meant for it to be a bad movie because in his mind he had a very specific vision, one which he accomplished. Unfortunately, it was a vision that was fundamentally at odds with the themes, established stories, characters, and universe Star Wars operated in.
It's like if George Lucas was put in change of a Game of Thrones movie. I don't think it would work because Lucas's worldview and messages are so different from the ones George RR Martin conveys in his works. Lucas could expertly make a movie according to his exact vision but it wouldn't be good. Not because of countless small decisions or executive incompetence, but rather because Lucas's passion and worldview, expressed through his art, would not line up with the themes, stories, characters, and world that GoT operates in.
I suppose it would be more accurate to say "nobody making a movie purposefully makes decisions that they think will make the movie worse". There's definitely movies that are done purely for a paycheck, or where there's been so much creative turnover that there's not really anyone at the helm who knows what's going on (I've worked on a few myself), but even when everyone working on the movie knows they have a turd on their hands, their job is still to try and make it as good as they can with the resources available, even if what they think is "good" doesn't align with what anyone else does.
And you're right that not everyone's going to be right for every story, even if they really want to tell it. Like, JJ Abrams has a moment in the Episode 7 director commentary where he talks about Rey finding the lightsaber as a moment that means nothing to her, but has meaning for the audience. To me, that's fundamentally at odds with how Star Wars storytelling works - Lucas designed the original film as not just a move about another galaxy, but a movie From another galaxy, so putting major storytelling beats into the movie that have nothing to do with the internal logic of the world and the characters just seems wrong to me.
But then again, lots of people liked that moment, and were stoked to see that prop again after 35 years. Even if it's a weird unearned moment that I don't think works, stuff like that made a lot of people happy, so I really can't say it was a Bad Decision, because it definitely had the intended effect on the intended people.
@@empirewreckers I'd argue just because some fans liked that scene doesn't make it an okay scene, by law of quantity someone will always like something, hence there being any fans of the sequel trilogy or the Michael bay transformers movies. From both a narrative and in universe angle it's a horrible scene that didn't work in anyway other than nostalgia bait.
@@empirewreckers At the same time, JJ showed Han Solo as a washed up failure, unable to develop his character any further from A New Hope. Fans didn't like that and I'm willing to bet JJ was hoping fans would like that, because A New Hope is "true" Star Wars so therefore they want to see A New Hope Han Solo.
I think George Lucas could make a Game of Thrones movie work, but only if the tv show did not already exist. George RR Martin created a Game of Thrones, partially in response to The Lord of the Rings and George Lucas tried to make a Lord of the Rings film, couldn't get the rights and made Willow instead. Both creators know well The Lord of the Rings and both creators have used history to influence their stories so I would say they would be in a good position to handle each other's work. Where it would go wrong though is if George Lucas used the cast from the Game of Thrones tv show after it airs, then fundamentally change them all to be unrecognizable to suit his story. People would just have a hard time accepting the character changes at a fundamental level. If they see Ned Stark acting like old Ben Kenobi, they're going to call him Jake Stark instead.
"I don't think he meant for it to be a bad movie because in his mind he had a very specific vision, one which he accomplished. Unfortunately, it was a vision that was fundamentally at odds with the themes, established stories, characters, and universe Star Wars operated in."
Except - speaking as a SW fan from the year 1980 - is actually is. It's VERY tied to established stories, characters and the universe.
It's just not the bits that some fans remember or want to remember because different fans remember SW being many things. Some of those things are their interpretations of the text of the film, not the actual text as its presented.
Case in point: half the fans hating that Luke didn't want to fight and that Luke doesn't actually fight Kylo at the end. Those fans wanted to see Luke "kick ass". Except half the fans DO remember what Yoda told him in EMPIRE: "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense. Never for attack." If anything, George Lucas retconned his own principles and themes in the prequels if you want to explain away what the Jedi get upto in those films. Or that Yoda was teaching Luke in a way so that he didn't repeat the mistakes that the prequel Jedi did. And guess what? Luke created Kylo because, for the briefest moment, he almost didn't follow Yoda's advice from EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. And Luke finally gets it right by never swinging his blade in anger and only using it to save his friends in the most non-violent method possible. Is the idea of non-violence distasteful to a lot of SW fans? Maybe. But never for me since EMPIRE and JEDI uses Luke's arc to explore that idea perfectly.
THE LAST JEDI is a true-blue STAR WARS film, but only for fans who remember the bits of STAR WARS that THE LAST JEDI actually takes inspiration from. The Force, the mysticism, the spirituality, the ethics, the morals, and yes even the completely stupid and broken space physics of the original trilogy (how long did Luke train with Yoda, again? Sound in space? Starfighters that bank like airplanes, making them easier to lead and hit?). The rough and ready serialized fantasy space adventure with black-and-white heroes and villains and status-quo reassuring escapism that the only way to get anything done is to kick butt? LAST JEDI - perhaps foolishly - took no inspiration from and thus had no content that served that segment of the audience.
This is why LAST JEDI fans are rabidly excited about the movie. AND often they like it and reject the Abrams films. Because STAR WARS is more than just "characters and relationships" its about actual challenging themes and ideas and that film took those ideas and pushed them farther. It's the only film since 1980 that ever did. And yes - absolutely - at least HALF of the fans of STAR WARS aren't interested in those things. And that's okay. The biggest mistake with THE LAST JEDI was that the franchise had spent far too long being everything EXCEPT a series of movies and by the time it came to treat an actual STAR WARS film like a "film", the fanbase was already invested in the franchise being a theme-park ride instead.
People keep pointing at things like THE MANDALORIAN, but even that is more a child's fantasy while their authentic 1980's Kenner figures bash into each other than actually using the SW Universe to explore new ideas and change the universe itself. People don't want STAR WARS to change and yeah, that's an attitude that no movie, no matter how finely crafted, can actually defeat.
Well done. Love the in-depth unbiased analysis. I do have to disagree on one point though- Palpatine’s return must’ve been explained because it has real storytelling consequences. Understanding his return allows the climax to have any meaning.
The movie builds to Rey killing him, but how is that any more definitive than what Anakin did? How did he not possess Rey when all she had to do was kill him? Is this his OG body getting destroyed or not? Can he clone himself again or not? It doesn’t feel like Rey accomplished anything since there’s nothing to stop this from happening again.
Yeah, expanding on the circumstances of his return could definitely help to sell that his defeat in this one is actually-foreverially-permanent. I feel like they intended the deaths of the cultists or whoever was in the stadium to imply that the people who brought him back in the first place are dead too (unless there's another secret Sith resurrection planet out there), but it it's not really well conveyed.
Not only that, but the sequels set a president for any all all victories to be meaningless. What is stopping the Empire from rising up again in a new incarnation after 30 years just as the First Order did? What is stopping Rey from having all of her Jedi students killed and then living as a hermit with the Jedi never being reestablished?
By refusing to change the status quo, the sequels have doomed the Star Wars galaxy to be in an endless cycle of the the Empire somehow taking over with no Jedi to stop them and a Rebellion forming to counteract them. And that same cycle will repeat meaning endless war. It's all very depressing and making the entire story of Star Wars meaningless. The OT only meant something because there was the promise of permanent change. But the sequels pretty much destroyed that promise.
Bringing back Palpatine was a major mistake considering Palpatine was defeated in Return of the Jedi and now he back he is not threatening really hard to believe anyone takes him seriously.
@@empirewreckers bringin back palpatine ruins both anakins and lukes journeys thats why i seriously hate these films they should have left palpatine dead and stay dead the orginial script aka duel of the fates had a way better plot and a way better everything till that idiot kk fired them both kk is a control freak and she lied to me and all us real star wars fans she said these wors we will take good care of these charecters then they seperated han luke and leia i wanted the ot trio back in episode 7 splotting them apart was the biggest mistake an rian johnson ruined and destroyed my all time favorite charecter luke skywalker by the time we reach the rise of skywalker the damage was done the rise of skywalker did just as much damage are both the force and last jedi these films ruined and broke my heart remember iv been a star wars fan since 1997 the acting in the sequel trilogy is far worse than the prequels i rather watch the prequels on repeat than watch the sequels the acting plots in each sequel trilogy films are terrible the only thing rian and j j care about is not story or charecters or plots all they care about is action the acting and storytelling in the past 6 films were better because each film took their time to get made ill never forgive rian johnson for what he did to my childhood hero and my other antie hero anakin skywalker/darth vader ill never ever forgive both rian and j j and kk for what they did to star wars and i seriously hated the force dyad stuff as well im sorry am telling you this i hope you understand how i feel
@@thereturnofdarthcaedus Palpatine’s return does NOT ruin Anakin and Luke’s arcs.
The story explained in the first 20 minutes of this video sounds fucking rad. I would have absolutely loved to have seen that on screen. It would have been so good. Breaks my heart.
Indeed. Idk WHAT THE ACTUAL FUK was in the mind of Disney executives
My key takeaway from this video is this - it's very easy for a series of changes (many of which are understandable, driven by necessity, or even positive!) to have a cumulative negative effect. It's easy - and very fun - to dunk on this particular example, but the lesson is applicable to lots of our own creative endeavors.
Facts. This video does an excellent job showing the domino effect of "well this needs to happen, so this happens" completely mauling a story that probably should have been figured out before principal photography on episode 7 even started...
So many versions of this story. And not a single one worse then the one we ended up with
Compare this to the essence of RotJ:
- Luke and friends rescue their friend Han
- Luke seeks closure with friend Yoda
- Luke confronts father to redeem him, while friends fight for freedom
That movie was all about the characters and their relationships.
People miss this point. The Vader being Luke's father reveal is not just information, it creates a crisis for Luke. Because Luke's whole motivation has been to take after his father, become a Jedi like him. And he believes Vader murdered his father and saw Vader kill his father figure Obi Wan.
So to then find out they're the same pattern shatters everything. He is at his lowest point, has to come back from that and becoming better than his father to save his father. It's a character development reveal. Copying it with Rey being so and so's descendant misses the point.
@@oliverford5367, exactly. I remember watching a video on this exact subject, and someone told it like this: "The identity of Rey's parents isn't story; it'd be generous to even call it backstory. It's just a fact. Story would be where, when, who reveals it, why it's revealed, and how Rey reacts when she learns the truth. How the fact affects the plot."
George Lucas understood this when making The Empire Strikes Back and Return Of The Jedi in a way that J.J. and Rian could never hope to.
Holy shit. I have a hard time dealing with just HOW DUMB some of these ideas were.
They created a “sabotage brick” that could disable the entire FO fleet?!?
How the F can J.J Abrams write this and say: “Oh yeah! Here we go! This makes sense and will make for a great movie!”
JJ is not much of a thinker. That is the problem.
I mean which is worse a sabotage device built by generatiins of enslaved ship builders, or the space ships flying in formation over the surface of a planet dont know and cannot figure out without help which way is UP?
I'm just stunned they were so obsessed with having a mcguffin
It's kinda like the droid control ship in episode 1.
This is bad. But it’s a shame that it has been replace by a worse idea, aka the tower needed to tell the ships how to go up….
The benefits of a singular vision permeate this documentary. When I look at the group meetings at 2:41 I see a committee, which is antithetical to good storytelling. Everyone has their little pet ideas (the horses, the not-so-subtle messaging). When this “committee debris” is allowed into the script, it only serves to compromise the tightness of the story. There is a lot of committee debris in RoS that doesn’t serve the overall story, so audiences finish it feeling unsatisfied.
I like how Colin wanted to use pre established ideas, ships, planets etc from EU material instead of never showing any previously named planets not showing any classic aliens as if rodians, Ithorians, Twi’leks, and quarren just don’t exist,
The Gran, Zabraks, Duros, and Sullustans have entered the holo.
@@Afinati the nautolans togruta and chiss are on hold
@@jmjedi923 The Kaminoans are busy cloning all of them
ngl if I rewrote TROS, I would have changed Exegol to Korriban.
43:29 "He's right, how Palpatine returned doesn't effect the story"
I'm sorry, but that statement couldn't be more wrong. If it is established that Palpatine can't die, then the stakes of the movie become completely unclear. How do you claim victory against someone if you can't even figure out if they can die or not? Did he use the Force to create his fleet? Is the next movie going to be Palpatine popping up on another planet with 10,000 Death Stars again?
Shit. Yeah. You're right.
Maybe in the 4th trilogy, he gets a drivable galaxy and plans to ram it into the Star Wars galaxy.
@@alduintheanti-dragonborn This is my favorite thing said, ever.
@@willow1601 I mean, the Sun Crusher exists. Maybe not in canon, but it exists.
man... that outline by the previous guy sounds almost amazing.... having a dark side user above the sith, a supernatural being, somewhat like the Bendu, would have been a great way to explain the high level of dark arts used by the first order duo WITHOUT the cheap move of cancelling a very important death
along with many other premises like holocrons instead of magic triangle maps or the coruscant motif
Star Wars Theory did a three part read through of the 'Duel of the Fates' script. It would've been an amazing movie.
@@tritonk1759 i much prefer the voiceover comic movie th-cam.com/video/E02BkoY_K0I/w-d-xo.htmlsi=A01jAyr8E6j-5FoD
Something tells me that JJ's wishlist images are based on thinking sessions involving action figures.
Chris Terrio after barging in on JJ: "No, sir! I didn't see you playing with your dolls again!"
Wouldn't surprise me Disney gave them some toys and said "you have to make sure we'll sell millions of them" and then used them for creating scenes
8:05 steal a star destroyer.
Three people. Stealing the equivalent of an aircraft carrier.
I'm sorry, but even duel of the fates sounds absolutely moronic.
It is stupid, but in episode three Anakin and Obi wan were in control of the burning capital ship, while it was crashing they were still in control, I think they could've made that work
The book Halo: First Strike had the small group of protagonists steal a rather small capital enemy vessel, except they way it was done made a lot of sense. Even with Master Chief (the galaxy’s greatest soldier) and Cortana (an incredibly smart AI), they barely managed to do so with their lives.
@@c456ex9 I mean as you said it is stupid but is it manageable? Like ok, obi wan and anakin in a way híjacked the ship but because they were brought directly to the bridge by their captors not like they landed and went directly blasting their way into the Ship, which they could not realistically do. Not even in the clone wars a situation contemplated. So if the whole crew is alerted to the presence of resistance hijackers, there is no way in hell that the resistance could hijack a fully crewed ship. And if by somehow they do manage to hijacked it what about the crew? How is the resistance going to use a capitol ship? I mean they would add it, the writers, but out of the sudden would forget it to add it in a significant way. So it would be stupid had they included it
Was inline with the in movie logic that Rey could do anything.
The idea that palpatine created anakin but had no way to know who he impregnated through the force would be really interesting if he tried it again after sensing vader would betray him, that would be a good connection if they really wanted the palpatine grandfather thing
I agree.
Still would be another incest moment if Rey and Ben got together though, even though they're not technically related biologically.
@@willow1601 they're not related AT ALL. Palpatine didnt create Anakin
Also by the time Anakin was born, Papatine was a rebellious teenager on speeder racing. How TF can he do that?
@@Arander92 I was unaware that a comic deconfirmed palpatine's relation to the conception of anakin.
"She wanted a villain for the final movie that would connect all three trilogies together." That's why Rian set up Kylo to be that villain, to not need an additional threat.
Except Kylo was about as intimidating as an angry toddler, and barely won most of his fights on screen at this point, being hopelessly outclassed by Rey.
As it is, the world building was 4 shit, so it's hard to say how powerful or weak the first order is in general. So it's not like you can use the might of those bumbling idiots to develop Kylo into a real threat.
@@tweda4kylo had potential to be a great villain the writers just screwed the pooch. Adam driver is great in the role and the character design is pretty cool
@richardjulien3345 I mean, sure, I guess.
But that argument is basically an excuse for the entire sequel trilogy; "if the first film was more than just a re-hash of 'A new Hope' then it would have had more opportunity for an interesting story."
"If the Last Jedi didn't completely neglect any and all world building then maybe the first order would be a more defined threat, and the lack of any response by the galactic community by the first order blowing up 5 planets would make more freaking sense"
"If Kylo had been able to win literally any of his fights with Rey, or had shown an impressive use of the force more than just in the first half of force awakens, maybe he might have been able to be more of a threat"
"If Hux wasn't written as a comedic punching bag in TLJ, maybe he could have been an intimidating enemy general and propagandist instead of having to be replaced in the last film with someone who could still be perceived as a threat"
Etcetera...
@@tweda4 it's not an argument for anything it's just me being butthurt about them screwing up something that could've been great
Rian is the worst thing aside from Kathleen to ever touch this franchise
People always underestimate the power of the Dark Side; the power to survive falls into bottomless pits.
I'm confused. Isn't a script rewrite and refinement process supposed to make it better, remove plotholes, add information, increase viewer investment and raise the stakes?
Instead of, you know, doing the opposite?
I think the idea of challenging Rey internally as to whether or not she would stand with her new family or fall in with Palpatine was soooo stupid. If they’d at least given some idea that she felt out of place or not with a family in the Resistance, it might make that struggle more of a real possibility. Maybe if we saw more clearly that she had an actual draw to the dark side, it might make that struggle seem more real. But when you have sweet General Leia giving her big hugs and all these people around who support her, and no big indication she’ll go to the dark side besides the “Oopsie” lighting that blew up (but didn’t really blow up) Chewie, it makes the stakes of “will she or won’t she” seem…I dunno, not so dramatic.
This was already presented (and much more clearly) to Luke in Return Of the Jedi. He was caught between a rock and a hard place, and he knew Vader was his father. He had more to gain by joining his father to save his friends. Like, can’t we make it a different struggle for Rey? Or at least hint that her Mary Sue persona actually is tainted by real draws to the dark side beforehand?
All of these expectations would have required Rey to have a personality.
Back when I actually believed they had a plan for the trilogy, I thought it was going to explore Kylo being bad but wanting to be good, and Rey being good but "wanting" to be bad or wanting power/revenge. So they would slowly switch places while meeting in the middle, like how some of those "dark Rey" concept images showed them ruling together.
This would've served the trilogy a lot better, as everyone loved Kylo while most people disliked Rey. Now Kylo/Ben is dead forever and we're stuck with the goody two shoes non-character Rey.
Not that it matters now, because I'm pretty sure they won't touch any of this stuff again.
I agree...this arc for both Rey and Kylo would have been far more interesting. And even could be used to re-emphasize Luke's convictions from the original trilogy: that even the darkest can be saved. Have Rey go full dark side to be redeemed by Ren's reawakened empathy as the climax of the trilogy would serve as a powerful arc of a saga about light conquering dark.
I really think the Last Jedi was set up with intentions to go in that direction: that after Smoke died, with the power vacuum and Rey killing him, her temptations grow deeper and more ambitious to prove she's not a nobody as Kylo had claimed. She was only ever connected to the Resistance out of convenience anyway, as it wasn't really her fight. The disillusionment she felt when meeting the legendary Luke Skywalker would have paid off as evidence that the Jedi failed and failed her. Last Jedi had a lot of faults, but I think it was intending to set up much more interesting dynamics between Rey and Kylo than were realized in Rise of Skywalker.
I had this theory that Disney's method for making Star Wars movies and shows was based mostly around imagery and not around characters. And you just confirmed this. The thing is that there was so much potential around the characters in the sequel trilogy that was all squandered for imagery and loose ties to that imagery. It's still happening in the TV shows and has spread to Marvel as well.
You gotta have a story that's relatable, not ridiculous, and makes sense. No amount of special effects will save you if the story is lacking.
This drives me nuts with Finn. From TFA, you get the feeling - even with Rey being the Jedi focus - that he clearly has some aptitude as well, with the "luck" aspect. And then TLJ makes all that take a back seat, only for a passing use of it near the end of TRoS. They set you up with him using the saber first. The greatest thing they could have done with him is have him and Rey BOTH become Jedi by TRoS, with Rey using what she learned from Luke to teach Finn, and creating a "Master/Apprentice" cycle again, with two people feeling their way through the whole thing, much like Luke had to with his academy.
Blows my mind how much they squandered things they setup in TFA.
@@IrisCorven I was actually hoping that Rey would turn to the dark side with Kylo Ren and fun would fight them but convince Rey to come back to the light at the end to mirror Darth Vader and Luke.
Pixar and Disney proper will be affected soon most likely.
Thank you for overview of Trevarow's script. Other videos didn't lay it out nearly as well. And I love the sarcasm as it is well-deserved.
To think they made a sith holocron into a ''wayfinder'' nobodys heard off, yet looks exactly the same lmfao
This.
Cept it’s a bluish green instead of red
Just need to timestamp the part about Kylo’s helmet so I can watch it again and again 43:57
Was that a deleted scene? Cause I don’t remember seeing that part.
@@Buttcakes15 pretty sure it’s in the movie
How Palpatine returned doesn’t really matter for the story of Ep. IX, but it really matters for the story of the entire saga.
How Palpatine returned isn't important, what is important is "Somehow Palpatine returned."
They could have attempted to explain it. They could have given us a meh reason as to why he came back, but theories just didn't commit.
@@Arrowtomahknee they literally say multiple times about cloning and how they learned how to clone so they probably cloned palp
@@Monokazie and they say wrong things about cloning, they pretend it's a sith thing.
The entire thing is Palpatine's story now. He created Anakin who was forbidden to learn how to defy death. But if Palpatine created Rey like he created Anakin, and now she's using the healing powers one can only learn "NOT FROM A JEDI" - then does this mean little Grogu not only exists to justify Rey's healing powers, but is Baby Yoda maybe doing Sith stuff too?
@@MouldMadeMind yeah and furthermore clones don't take on the exact personality of the person they're cloned from. See: literally the entirety of clone wars which is canon and Lucas approved.
It’s oddly satisfying to hear a TH-camr that doesn’t tell you to comment, like, and subscribe… and oddly enough I feel inclined to do all three 🤷♂️