How Bad Movies Are Made feat. The Rise of Skywalker
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 มิ.ย. 2024
- This video won't make you like The Rise of Skywalker, but I hope it helps you hate it less.
CHAPTERS
0:00 - Introduction
02:16 - Before The Rise
20:29 - JJ's Early Draft
33:31 - Production Interlude
36:18 - Untangling The Film
1:16:24 - Epilogue
If you'd like to dive deeper into the Star Wars Saga's development history yourself, here's all the behind-the-scenes sources I usually pull from:
pastebin.com/NthWEvbG
The Empire Wreckers actual play podcast:
www.buzzsprout.com/141856/
Or Elsewhere on the internet:
/ empirewreckers
/ empirewreckers
/ empirewreckers
/ empirewreckers - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
It is extremely telling that I legitimately completely forgot they destroyed a planet in rise of skywalker
That reminds me of something
The threat in the movie is so immaturely absurd that it becomes non existent
A trillion death stars will blow up the galaxy
And a planet being destroyed feels like nothing, it's insignificant
I read this comment and my first reaction was....wait did they? When and wich one? I do not remember
@@salvatoreg26Kajimi. Idk if I spelled it right. It's Zori's planet.
They killed mostly storm troopers on the planet lol
@@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009 What even happened in the sequels?
Watching this video made me realize something about this movie...
I had absolutely no recollection of 99% of it.
I'm baffled by the protagonist having her character rewritten for the last third of the trilogy.
It's such a weird movie.
@@NyJoanzy they brought back Palpatine, there was literally nothing too far for them.
Wouldn't have been surprised that jar jar Bink was Palpatine in a plot twist
@@TH-cam_is_Trash Jar Jar being a second Sith Lord is a really good fan theory, explains a lot of the issues behind the prequels.
Same I kept watching the clips of video in the background and I just couldn't place any of it.
They really did want us to forget about what just happened in the previous scene so the present one will make sense.
@@jonathaneckersall2939 I think it was summed up best when referred to as “Star Wars - Stuff Happens” it’s really just a compilation of people running around a lot.
“Rey buries Luke and Leia‘s light sabers for all eternity at the one place Luke couldn’t wait to get away from, in the one material that the guy who built it couldn’t stand.”
LOVE IT.
Also the absolute worst material to bury something in
The story is deeper than I originally gave it credit for being 😂😂
Would've made more sense to bury them on Naboo with their mother Padme.
But if Anakin couldn't have the same luxury, guess the kids couldn't either. 🤷🏻♂️
It's a burial of hate, not of love. It would've been more respectful to throw it into a star.
Also, fucking steals their namesake...Meaning Palpatine (at least through blood) *CONTINUES* his fucking insidious ownership of the Skywalkers
I'm sure I've seen The Rise of Skywalker, but it must have been so unmemorable that halfway through this video I seriously questioned if I had seen the movie
Honestly sames LOL
yea i was like “did star wars have a 9th movie with palpatine in it? nah that mustve just been a dream”
Same, i know i saw it opening weekend, but it was so boring and forgettable, i became a WH40K fan.
Holy shit lol - exact same feeling
I am HUGE FAN of the solo movie and i still cant rcollect a single moment in episode IX. Pity that they ended the saga in episode 8
She called herself Rey Skywalker for tax evasion purposes and I am surprised everyone missed this clearly outlined point.
Palpatine faked his death for tax write offs
I had fallen in love of the scavenger Rey. Can you imagine someone who could make force sensitive machines? But no, they had to turn her into Chuck Yeager and later into El Zorro. From there it went down. I have the scavenger action figure, the only good thing about the film.
I think the lease for the farm property was still under Lars and Skywalker, and so get around squatting she just took the property over....later on realising there was about 2 million owed in back rent
That’s the same reason she buried the lightsabers like Ivana at the golf course. Gotta get them intergalactic tax breaks in line
I would rather guess inheritance fraud
Have to say: The earlier drafts sounded a whole lot more coherent than what the movie ended up being...
Honestly that original script actually sounds decent
Ya & I wanna say the first line of this video "Bad Movies aren't made on purpose" is wrong, because Ruin Johnson actually set out to make a bad Star Wars movie to kill the franchise.
It's not only coherent but kinda follows the already established lore within the Star Wars universe (mostly legends tbf), which would've instantly made the film 10 times better. What we ended up with is basically the foot notes of what was originally intended but instead nothing is ever explained or justified ("Somehow Palpatine returned" as an example) and the movie just feels soulless and hollow. As if they literally just went from plot point to plot point with absolutely no clue how or what they were supposed to do in the meantime.
They just got so scared that they decided to dedicate a whole film to destroy what they were building and go "see guys we did all you asked please like our movie"
Still sound like a convoluted mess, a little less than the original though
I love how they made the movie make less sense as they went. Fucking incredible.
Now imagine how things could have been even more nonsensical, had AI been involved in writing the script.
It's crazy that one of the biggest flaws is because JJ Abrams doesn't believe characters don't have object permanence. Truly, a creative genius
He united Star Wars and Star Trek fans..
@@connycontainer9459 into disliking his movies, yeah
Call him by his true name. "Lense Flare"
....He DOESN'T believe that characters DON'T have object permanence? As in, he believes they do have it?
Is that a typo, or am i missunderstaning something here?
@@random.3665it should read JJ Abrams is legitimately re t8rded
I just can’t understand why they were so obsessed with having horses involved. They got rid of so much but they HAD to have horses
Three words: Girls. Love. Horses.
@@RicardoAGuitar Kathleen Kennedy is just a grown up horse girl.
I think I remember hearing that Lucas liked to have people riding beasts in every star wars movie. I don't know why, and I can't find it quoted anywhere online, but I guess they couldn't find a better way to incorporate that into the movie than having horses galloping on the side of a star destroyer.
12 year old white gurl Becky loves horses 🐎 gotta reach every audience member mmk
@@RicardoAGuitar three words: girls. fuck. Horses
To me it felt like the entire sequel trilogy was a high school project that started with passion, and ended with deadlines, confusion, and a "just get it finished" mindset.
Imagine how much better it could have been if they just extended the deadlines by a few more months
reguardless of media and Disney lies the story has gone of the rails and cliff with TLJ,. it was not a salvageable project at that point. Solo movie not that bad, not good ether but most fans were still pissed many never came back.
@@129das yeah the only good movie in my opinion was Rogue. It was a darker story and everyone died. That's how you tell a compelling story. Not with some overpowered Mary Sue that never trained a day in her life and is somehow more powerful than all previous jedi masters that lived.
Plus, Rey is just not a great/likable character. As time goes by, I find myself no longer able to cheer for her.
@@lunarvision Rey would have been a fantastic character had Disney not given her the "Ermagherd can literally do any and everything with no actual effort cuz woman" trope.
Every single (and I mean EVERY) alternate telling of the rise of skywalker is better than what we got.
And they are all terrible. That says alot.
personally i think the infinite snoke clones vs luke one was worse, but not by much.
The yellow lightsaber represents something that can Disney can sell at Galaxy's Edge for 249.99.
Knowing how palpatine came back is literally one of the biggest criticisms of the movie, because if he’s alive that invalidates the entirety of the OT
Palpatine returned very similarly in Dark Empire 5 (1992)
@@EpicJoshua314 I know, and I think that wasn’t good either, only reason I don’t hate that novel was the execution, but that is a good point to make in response to my argument so thank you!
Palp could have come back in a better way.
Maybe we find out that Snoke was just a fake projection of Palpatine and also that Palp is responsible for Luke and Kylo Ren having their disagreement. Maybe Palp put a vision of fear in Luke and he had his PTSD breakdown.
@@HAFBeast91 or that Snoke was his Starkiller Equivalent, Palp trained him to kill Vader should he turn and then after he died he did the sith possession thing, and just like that (and using their very weird point about Palpy being a ghost possessing Rey) I’ve made a much better reason for something stupid to happen
@@EpicJoshua314 Dark Empire at least respects Anakin by letting him part of the story as a force ghost, who is Luke's moral compass at times (who struggles to fall to the dark side in his studies to defeat Palpatine) and finally being the key of defeating Palpatine forever. Luke could only destroy him physically, its Anakin who sealed him in away in the Afterlife after that in a great display of father & son teamwork.
Kinda ironic how "The Rise of Skywalker" ended with the bloodline's extinction and a Palpatine stealing that name.
Something, something “muh theems”.
She didn't steal anything
He could save other people's names from extinction, but not his own. Ironic
.... I am so mad now that I've had it framed to me this way.
Damn you sanic
Where waz Zombie Skywalker... anyone?
I think the main problem is that they had all these cool shots they wanted in the movie, but rather then giving some of them up to better the plot, they twisted the plot to get those shots into the film.
the writing advice "kill your darlings" would have really helped here. sometimes you need to get rid of the things you love in most for the sake of the overall story.
In their defense/ to play Devil's advocate, when doing Star Wars you can't really be too sure if the replacement shot you'll be creating instead of your dream shot is going to be any easier to produce, and the low price of "Have horses in makeup run 20ft on a soundstage" looks really good on the producer's budget list.
Not just shots, but also characters and scenes. And despite this tendency to hold onto story elements through multiple drafts of the script, Finn's story was the one they ended up cutting the most.
Innovative technique called 'backwards filmmaking'
Also all those shots look like shit
One of the things about the sequel trilogy that really let me down but I hear virtually no commentary on is how they abandoned the cinematic language of the Kurosawa inspired original trilogy. For instance, there was time lapse, flashback, slow motion and a ton of other cinematic techniques that were not present in the originals. The cinematic language of the og trilogy was such an integral part of its identity, the screen wipes and cowboy frames. Sticking to that toolkit is part of what really makes you feel like you are watching a Star Wars movie. When you add a bunch of new things then it loses that specific identity and you feel like you could be watching anything-a Nolan film or something.
I never thought about this but you are entirely correct
I just remembered the screen wipes! Small detail but it adds a lot of character. Too campy for jj abrams I guess
The fact that literally every other Disney Star Wars product (Mandalorian, Book of Boba, Bad Batch, etc) uses the screen-wipes and other OT techniques makes the sequel trilogy more foreign from OG Star Wars
I mean the biggest part of The Last Jedi is the Rashomon retelling of Luke’s story, which is directly pulled from the titular Rashomon, a Kurosawa movie. TLJ also had a fair amount of screen wipes and references to media that isn’t Star Wars. The Abrams ones went away from it but it’s not a sequel trilogy problem.
I get what youre saying here but that seems unnecessarily restrictive.
Sure, Lucas drew heavily from Kurosawa but he also loves Ozu. Movie Serials and old westerns were hugely influential along with WW2 Fighter Plane picturesļ
Lots went into the look of star wars. Tbh the guy who best understood and replicated that was Rian Johnson, who looked heavily at a wide array of international films and allowed their influence to settle in
Remember in Jedi when 3P0 said "it's against my programming to impersonate a deity-" and Luke said "just do it!" and 3P0 did it without having his brain wiped?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
They remember it so we don't have to
eh, they probably pushed out a security patch in 40 years between the movies
Droid DRM was invented after RotJ
Ehh, not really comparable. Threepio had no idea what Luke meant when Luke said, “Tell them you’ll use your magic…” His protest at that point wasn’t “It’s against my programming” - it was (verbatim) “What magic?!”
I'm pretty sure that the Pepperidge Farm guy is Sith.
It's funny how the movie went from having a ton of interesting ideas to almost using none of them. The movie reeks of too much interference by too many people instead of letting one person control the overall story. It seems like there were too many people saying, no don't do that which left it with little direction it could go.
So, it was the opposite of the Prequels. Seems like what JJ wanted after all!
I don't think enough people were saying no.
@@breastfeedittoyou1548 Hilariously, that might have been one of the weaknesses of the prequels as well. Lucas is a great ideas guy, but in the OT he had a lot of very capable people around him who shot him down when his ideas got too 'out there'.
I mean, Harrison Ford and Carrier Fisher would just tell Lucas to his face when they thought his dialogue was bad and dumb. While poor Ahmed Best got dragged along by Lucas turning his silly on set skit for Jar Jar into the characters entire personality.
Don't get me wrong, I think everyone has softened on the prequels over the intervening years, but lets not forget that they still have huge flaws.
@@Bustermachine It's just nostalgia. I will admit the prequels dialogue as cheese but I still love them. For that matter I love the original trilogy and there is plenty of cheese and overacting in those especially from Luke.
It sounds like the movie REALLY needed an additional year of development. Disney needed to realize it'd be healthier for the franchise to not enforce such unreasonable deadlines even if it hurt their shortterm revenue.
44:39 Just the thought of Kylo playing that song over his built-in helmet stereo is sending me into the stratosphere
That 6 seconds of this video had me more stoked about Kylro Ren than I ever was at any point in watching any of the actual 3 films LOL
And the stormtroopers just looking at him walk by and going, "Did you hear that sh*t?"
It's baffling that this is how movies this expensive are made. Thanks for your hard work!
Finn leading a stormtrooper rebellion would have been so cool. It would make his past relevant and important to his development.
Also it would've been a massive call back to Star Wars Rebels. Heck he could have been related to Zare Leonis, which would've been LEGENDARY. He could've been a descendant of Leonis's sister, now THAT would have been awesome (and tragic tbf)
But alas, Disney are racists, can't have a black man be truly important in a story.
It is absolutely wild how much better Trevorrow’s story is!
@@ObeseChess I wouldn't say that. I watched a read through of the script and while it has good concepts its still not good. In this video he only really hits on the best aspects of the script and avoids the dumb parts.
@@paddyq3235 oh, I read it too! It wasn’t perfect, but I thought it was quite a bit better than what we got.
Legit half the problems with this movies plot comes down to trying to maintain the original drafts beats but trying to put a square peg in a round hole I kinda feel bad now
It was never going to be better than the originals or the prequals simply because the original creator wasnt involved.
It's basically a high budget fan fiction movie.
@@BoleDaPole I don't agree with that at all. Tons of excellent Star Wars stories have been told without the direct involvement of the creator. Most of the EU was exactly that. At most, there were things Lucas rubber stamped with his seal of approval after they were created or when they were in the process of being made by others.
Well the original script was bad as well, but the circumstances being that if followed the first two movies it's as good as we were gonna get, I believe.
@@BoleDaPole I would argue that JJ thinking "true Star Wars is A New Hope and Empire, screw the prequels" and Rian thinking "the fans hate not being able to moving past A New Hope and Empire" doomed whatever trilogy they tried to make. The Force Awakens have no references to the Prequels and The Last Jedi ends up retreading the ground the prequels already covered while breaking the characters in the process.
these movies betrayed me too my core they destroyed han luke leia chewie lando and more they even made this frenchise oke it was already woke before disney even bought it i can name charecters in the old eu way better than rey and yes these charecters are way better than both rey and ben solo plus rey is not a true skywalker in the sequel trilogy they killed off han luke leia including their very own son ben solo why kill off a charecter after that said charecter gets redeemed and brought back to the light
Not concluding Episode IX on Coruscant was a questionable choice considering that the Tatooine ending as produced only matters to audiences, not the characters, as Coruscant should have. And not letting Finn develop towards the trooper rebellion - a great and organic idea - is beyond reason.
😭😭 i wanted that so much
JJ had a problem separating the characters from the audience since TFA, you could practically hear Rey saying “you’re Han Solo, from Star Wars (1977)!”
@nykcarnsew2238 he had also problems creating original characters, original planets, and original situations. And also following up on events of the previous movies, just retconing everything into whatever without setup. BB-8 is most likely a creation from the VFX team.
The Rage Against the Machine track at 44:32, then adjusting the audio at 44:38 to appear as if it's through (Ren's) headphones is funny and brilliant. Too bad this manufactured sequence wasn't in the actual movie, which would have made it a million times better.
It’s so good. The song fits the shot perfectly.
@@brannonkirkhuang I grew up on Star Wars. I was nine when I saw the first movie. Since, someone, somewhere asked themselves, "how can I utterly, spectacularly ruin the childhood of millions in the span of a two-hour movie?" TROS is the tragic, insulting, money-grubbing result.
@@JimHamiltonIII I actually really enjoy episode nine! I just take it for the fun, stupid ride it is. I feel like all Star Wars films are fun and stupid in their own way. That said, I re-watched the scene from this video of Kylo walking with that song playing in his helmet like ten times 😭😭😭
I was like half dissociated watching this because I'm pulling an all nighter, so when his tone shifted making fun of Kylo's emo moment, smash cutting to the uncensored needle drop of Killing In The Name Of's ending... I *howled* with laughter. And then laughed until I cried when the audio changed to sound like he was pummeling his ears with it the Sonic force of a Death Star, to the confusion of his troops. 10/10 gag, no notes.
@@TransDrummer1312the stormtroopers look at each other “wtf you hearing this?”
what a gorgeous trainwreck. every time i look at footage from the movie divorced from context i’m like “man this looks nice. i wish the movie was good”
"I wish the movie was good" is uniting a ton of old school Star Wars fans right now. Everything after George is just fan fic now.
@@magicalglitch8801 i mean i still think the prequels are dogshit so for me it’s less “everything after george” and more “everything from 1999 onward”
@@quanicle101 That's a respectable stance. My sister agrees. She's happy to let it end with the first 2 or 3 movies. I didn't mind the prequels too much. I'm one of the very few people who actually liked the midichlorians thing.
@@magicalglitch8801 i can see how some people might like the the idea of making someone’s force abilities something that’s measurable. but i personally preferred the ESB explanation of the force where it’s more metaphysical and less about how many magical bugs you have living in your bloodstream
It doesn't even look nice. Its oversaturated garbage.
I can't get over it that someone at Disney thought that the fans would hate seeing Coruscant and especially the Jedi Temple after all those decades ...
This absolutely proves, that no one at Disney (at least in this triology) knows anything about Star Wars lore
The idea of it being a crypt world is also really interesting. Could play into the idea that only the upper parts of the planet were evacuated and the rest of the dark underbelly is still there, becoming a mix of nar shadaa and korriban
I think it shows just how out of touch they were.
The only thing disney knows is "Fans hate the prequels and love the originals"
No one at Disney knows S*** about Star Wars lore - and what is more, they don't CARE.....
@@kenetickups6146 Well, they were right about that at least.
Once it was pointed out that every Star Trek movie HAS to destroy the Enterprise I couldn’t help but notice how eager Abrams was to smash the Falcon.
i forgot if the falcon got smashed or not
Lightspeed jumping made me want to die. The whole sequence just kept dancing on hyperspace’s grave.
And I’d understand if they mentioned something about new droids being able to calculate hyperspace lanes much faster. But by god. They don’t
even then they jump from some weird impossible crystal spires to the middle of a floating city and theres not going to be a direct path to accelerate/decellerate
I'd argue that "somehow, Palpatine has returned" also undermines the ending, because... if he could come back from death once, he could do it again? What is it that makes this death so final when getting chucked into an exploding reactor core didn't do him in permanently? Say what you want about Dark Empire, but it at least gave an explanation for HOW Palpatine returned, and WHY his death at the end of that storyline would be permanent.
Of all the issues I have with this film (and there are many) this is one of the most fundamental for me, and I feel like I’ve talked about this in the same way you describe it here.
I’m not familiar with the Dark Empire stories, what’s the explanation they give there?
@@kylemaw988 So, a lot of this will sound familiar, because Rise of Scubwalker cribs shamelessly from Dark Empire, despite Dark Empire having been decried by Sequel-defenders as a story so bad it justified rebooting the post-Return of the Jedi setting.
So, Palpatine in Dark Empire had set up a cloning program in case of his own untimely demise. When he dies, he just possesses one of his young clone bodies. BUT! The clones are not capable of housing him permanently; sooner or later, they burn themselves out, forcing him to repeat the process. So he hits upon the idea of possessing the body of one of Leia and Han's children - they're all Force sensitive, and so should be able to handle the strain.
Of course, this plan fails, because a Jedi named Empatojayos Brand gets in front of Palpatine as he tries to make the transition between his final clone body and the infant Anakin Solo. Taken directly from Wookiepedia: "Brand grasped Palpatine's spirit and took it prisoner within himself. Being eaten alive by the darkness within him, Brand sensed the despair and anger within Palpatine as he died. Palpatine spoke through the Jedi one last time before he died, cursing the Skywalker bloodline. Brand bade farewell and died, carrying Palpatine's spirit with him to be held prisoner for eternity by every Jedi who had become one with the Force, never to be resurrected again."
So basically, that "And I am alll the Jedi!" stuff at the end of TRoS? Imagine that, but actually decent.
Yeah, I'd completely disagree with him that it doesn't matter how Palpatine returned. It absolutely matters to make the conclusion of the story mean anything. What's different about this death? Not that anyone really cares about future Star Wars movies after the sequel trilogy. But in theory it'd be good to explain how the villain is back so we can be sure he's not coming back again.
@@Flaris I mean it's fairly obviously he had a parachute under his robe at the end of ROTJ. We know that space has air based on General Grievous's "clothes" moving as he walks along the outside of the ship in episode 3, so it's entirely plausible that Palpatine paraglided to another planet.
Well I don't want to spoil it for you, but somehow Palpatine returned.
Palpatine should have been an evil force ghost. Would have been a lot more intimidating and even horrifying if done right.
Hell him possessing Ben Solo would’ve been a lot better then being a clone.
any return of Plapatine ruins Vaders sacrifice imo
Somehow the Ghost Zombie Demon Pirate LeSheev returned
Sidious returning at all undermines the skywalker saga as a whole and is just bad writing.
Problem with that is I think its either canon or heavily implied that the sith cannot become force ghosts. They lack the spiritual balance necessary
I dislike Trevorrow's draft as well, it feels like the sort of thing that would require multiple movies to build up, but at least he made an effort.
I REALLY can't believe Disney allowed any of these Movies to be made without having the story written and properly fleshed out first.
They are a garbage company that just wants money, so they decided to pump out the movies to get said money. They knew people are dumb enough to pay to watch whatever they put out.
The fact that Finn rallying former stormtroopers to the resistance wasn’t used is so painful. Would have been a huge moment for his character and brought him full circle, instead of him unfortunately just being along for the ride in the other movies
Also it would've been a really strong movie moment, like when the Rivendell elves arrive to the Helm's Deep before the battle starts.
remember black people don't sell in China and China is Disney's number one market for films.....can't have that pesky Finn doing anything center stage : /
REY!!!!! REY!!! REYYYYY!!!
Wasted, just Wasted.
Press F to pay respects for Mr. Boyega.
@@DeathSithe92
What are you talking about?
Gay people don't sell in China (and not so much for culture but straight up government censorship)
Black people are fine...?
I think the fundamental problem with the sequel trilogy is that it can't justify it's own existence. It tries to "complete" a saga that was already finished by George Lucas in 2005. Together, the PT and OT are the story of Anakin Skywalker, with a clear narrative/theme. The sequels were "studio movies" created with the IP in mind first, and a story (if you can even call it that) later, mostly meant to sell merchandise and cashout on nostalgia.
You're exactly right. It's clear that the story of the first 6 movies was about Anakin primarily, and once he dies in ROTJ that is done. They should have made this new trilogy totally differently but wanted to cash in on cheap nostalgia to guarantee audiences would show up saying "member stah wahs!"
Absolutely so. I dont undrstand why everyone hates sequels... let them play with the IP, let them create more jobs for the VFX companies, bring in more taxes, etc. none of this undoes the originals and the impact they had on the culture.
The prequels set out to do the exact same thing. Lucus wanted the money.
@@genetenzwrong.
@@ValJediit does undo their legacy cause it’s canon. The skywalker bloodline is extinct.
The Rage Against the Machine moment was such a great comedic break from this in-depth study. Love it!
I kinda don't understand why they had a tight deadline other than executives pounding the table and say "we want money now"
I was certain the sequels were doomed when they announced there would only be 2 years, instead of the traditional 3 years, between movies. The original trilogy proved long ago that 3 years was barely enough time to get a finished film, and Return of the Jedi suffered because of lack of prep time and crew exhaustion. 2 years was an idiotic decision, especially since they had done ZERO planning of the story arc before beginning.
It's wild, they made and released 5 movies in less than 10 years haha.
I still don’t understand how Rey knew how to sail a boat, in rough waters nonetheless, as we all know: she’s been on a sand bucket planet all her life. Was sailing included in her Jedi training or somethin’? Lmao
She's just a genius who knows how to do everything. That's the problem with her as a character. She has no faults, she's great at everything from the very start.
i mean she knew how to fly the millennium falcon without any proper training in the force awakens
@@marvinmuller1085 but that can be explained through her salvaging giving her some knowledge of how spaceship parts work. And maybe she’s flown smaller ships around the planet before. But…a sea vessel? No way there would even be parts for that on a desert
@@violetlavi2207 You can explain away some stuff, but other stuff like her being able to defeat the antagonist of the 1st film in a light saber duel despite having never even seen one before, you can't. The Jr. protagonist in the 1st prequel an 1st OT didn't even battle.
I think some of these issues arose out of the politics they were selling with the movie. The movie had a really strong focus on 'the culture war' and leftist messages, and I think that lead to some questionable decisions - like the above mentioned protagonist beating the antagonist in the first battle, with no training. The problem is if they have the antagonist initially win, like they should in any typical story arch, they risk backlash from the people in it for the politics.
Her whole 15 minutes of Jedi training covered sailing too?
A 7k year old sith lord would've been one hell of a story
honestly, that guy should've been the villain. sounds like the biggest badass in the galaxy.
i think they should have went with the cloned sith. like armies of force using clones@@yurifairy2969
Agree! That's where I thought they were going with Snoak...he was even older, higher up the Sith chain, and more powerful than Palpatine. So in effect, Kylo Ren and his relationship was more direct, efficient and evil. Instead of Snoak --> Palpatine --> Vader, they cut out the middle man and it was just Snoak --> Kylo Ren. But then they killed off Snoak and never explained who TF he was, and I was just like...what in the literal hell was that character's existence even about???
@@collinthebenevolentbandityea snoak was so cool but literally served no purpose
@@collinthebenevolentbanditsnoke
1:15:37
"buries Luke and Leia's lightsaber for all eternity at the one place Luke couldn't wait to get away from in the one material that the guy who built it couldn't stand."
damn
I played bass in Big Sheev's Nasty Nut when I was in college.
Here's something that might have helped the trilogy: *a consistent plot*
That was J.J.'s job, and he failed miserably, just like with Lost.
@@derkeheath5172Absolutely!! That mystery box crap can work for TV shows, you have time to figure out how it all comes together. With movies though, it just creates confusion. It's like he couldn't help himself, and just threw in too many of his mysteries. The saber, Reys backstory, what's up with Finn, why doesn't Han have the Falcon, where's Luke, and on and on!! Handing it off to multiple directors, without a plan was a HUGE mistake too.
There was something of a plan, but it was thrown so completely off the rails by The Last Jedi that the original director quit and J.J. had to come in to course correct the course correction.
@@mariokarter13 Maybe, but I'm going to press X to doubt. If there was something of a plan, that something was likely rather vague and not necessarily very helpful for the next writer. Too much about The Force Awakens seems halfassed for to have much faith in JJ's planning.
This is basically some guys having 10 story beat ideas, and then playing connect the dots, the story beat only exists to justify the existence of the following story beat
Its fascinating, its like every version they had good and bad ideas, and they ended up taking the bad ideas and leaving the good on the chopping block
And forgetting entirely the themes that those ideas were created to support. So they got a series of superficial set pieces that looked good in isolation but told a garbage story when strung together. And why did the trilogy have to be bound together by Palpatine anyway. It could just as easily have connected to the prequels through the prophecy of the chosen one.
@@jofujino When I left the theater my impression was that it had a lot of cool scenes, but nothing to connect them. Just a lot of 'and this is happening now'
@@cameronwilsey9334 Yeah it was sensory bombardment. I couldn't even tell if I liked it or not after seeing it the first time because I was so mentally drained. All I could remember about it was the ending, too.
This post-mortem is a work of art that exemplifies deep thought and learning from the past. Truly the highest levels of work and professionalism. It demonstrates something we wish the Disney Execs had, the thoughtfulness on how hard it is to make good stories. Even stories about stories take time and if you rush it (Hi: The Hobbit) it is a very dangerous game.
Something tells me that JJ's wishlist images are based on thinking sessions involving action figures.
Chris Terrio after barging in on JJ: "No, sir! I didn't see you playing with your dolls again!"
I don't think I've ever seen a better example of mocking something by simply describing it.
Oof
Got Timestamp? Or this is for the whole video?
I think the most important line here is the last few sentences:
"People forget that making movies take time." - but it is not the audience which should be reminded, it's the producers and the film studios.
Looking at the time table in 2017 should have raised red flags all over the place.
It is so sad that the inability or unwillingness to shift the release further back into the year 2020, brought us this thing.
That for me is the big take away from this video. I'm not as angry towards the creators botching the final chapter and more so understanding that this film was given a heavy load that was not going to be easy to sort out. Especially with the time they had and that condensing the film and bending the script to the point of breaking was something that was forced rather than consciously done.
That's a problem for the whole series. TLJ is the one with the fastest writing time
Totally agree, wish that they did the same way with the other trilogies and had three years in between each entry rather than two
@@marcsoren7 or they have everything, effectively, ready to go from day one and get most of the work out of the way before the first movie even hits theatres, like how Lord of the Rings was filmed
@@bradleyjacinto7732 the issues started in the TFA, no amount of time (other then prior to TFA) would have helped
I love this style of video, not just mocking the effort of someone, but actually examining what went "wrong"
Considering how little went right there should've been more mockery. He actually gives some credit where only criticism would be appropriate. Their 'good' ideas still sucked & were conceived of completely the wrong way. Writing scenes with only tone or 'wishlist shots' in mind, for example, is a horrible way to craft a compelling story & he should've made more clear how & why it's an absolutely insulting method to utililize & how it led to this dumpster fire.
Mauler's tone is perfect to characterize an abomination like this. It deserves an appropriately scathing response.
@@MistyMountainPathproblem is, mauler is being buddies with and supporting right-wing supporters and can therefore stfu
@thahoule7924 what an embarrassing take. If you hate people because of their political leanings you need to look in the mirror and see we all want what's best with different methods involved. We're on the same team. Powerful people want you to hate your fellow man and disregard their words.
@@thahoule7924 lol touch grass
@@BlackJesus1998 The right, by definition, does not want what's best for everyone. The entire foundation of their belief system is reinforcing hierarchies. We are absolutely not on the same team and you don't even need to hate them to be honest about that fact.
I have retconned the 3rd trilogy from my brain. The Luke Skywalker story ends with Eps 6. No more, no less.
18:35
Wow I can’t believe someone on the main production team managed to completely misunderstand what the prophecy said. Not once did it denote that a Skywalker would balance the force, only The Chosen One, it’s actually incredible that they botched that up and that’s what drove the writing to Rey taking the Skywalker name, unbelievable.
If it had said Skywalker specifically, the Jedi council would look even more stupid for refusing to train Anakin at first. Not only does the boy have the most powerful force potential of any being in the galaxy, but he also has the exact name of the chosen one! How can you look at this kid and say “nah, it’s okay, we don’t need him”.
Rey, identity theft is a really serious problem. Especially stealing from dead people who can come back as force ghosts and see the theft happening in real-time.
They might as well have been right though, the skywalkers were the chosen ones, or at least the ones best suited to save the galaxy. Extremely strong, anakin was created by the force. Not sure if he was created to bring balance or if he is literally just the force balancing itself like an equal/opposite reaction to the dark side meddling but yeah. Rey wanting to take up the mantle of skywalker makes sense, and I might have liked it if Palpatine's defeat made sense and the movies were good and had more setup for this.
Also, it said that the Chosen One would be born from the Force, similar to Jesus. Anakin was and Rey was not.
The Skywalker line ended, yet the Palpatine line endured.
Great ending, eh? No. No it isn't. =P
The scene of Kylo walking with his crew listening to Rage Against The Machine is the best thing ive seen in a long time XD. I only wish that it was in the theatrical cut
I was like "okay, we got it, cut away..." and then the headphones gag hit and all was well
@@Virjunior01, and the stormtroopers just looking at him as he passes by and going "Did you just hear what I just heard?" was the icing on top.
🤌Perfecto.
People always underestimate the power of the Dark Side; the power to survive falls into bottomless pits.
I can't believe there was almost a version of this movie that felt like a movie.
The fact that you forced me to hear the phrase “Big Sheev’s Nasty Nut” and yet I still enjoyed this video should speak to its quality.
Good thing I wasn't drinking anything when he said it.
When I tell you my jaw DROPPED
Creamy Sheev strikes again.
it reminds me of when Jenny Nicholson was talking about cloning and how Palpatine should have been looking, and I quote, "smoooooth and sexy!"
@@Sekushiwolf He can't keep getting away with it!
That's like actually amazing, EVERY other version of the plot is better than the one they went with...
Not even close
I swear every iteraton sounded like an infinitely more interesting story to tell than what we got in the end.
I had forgotten most of the movie, so hearing him retell the plot as originally intended made me wonder why I didn’t enjoy it and I almost went back to rewatch it…
Then, yeah. That was the original story, not what we got. I feel cheated.
Every time they took the story apart, they put it back together a little worse than it was before. And at the same time they continued to hold on to story elements that no longer served their original purpose.
That enormous tree root hideout at minute 22:10 is where i want to live. Reject houses return to tree roots.
Man, this video was bloody terrific. Roughly 300 times more fun to watch than TROS itself. Easy sub. Have a great christmas, mate.
"Because... Ray needs someone to scream her name." - is such a beautiful way of describing the function of the entire side cast in TROS, thank you! :D
You mean Finn cause the other cast actually did something.
Oof. I'm an amateur writer, and I know from unfortunate experience that "this image/scene is too cool, I don't want to cut it!" NEVER ends well. Hearing that sentiment pop up so often in this video explains a lot.
Rick McCallum's anecdote about George ruthlessly cutting out anything not necessary to the story always comes to mind whenever I think about editing.
@christopherverhoef9112
I've been published since 2014 and I still have that problem. While proofreading I'll find myself not wanting to cut content that I think is cool. So I try to find a way to make it relevant to varied degrees of success.
It could absolutely end well if done the exact way they didn't do... have a clear direction for the entire trilogy from start to finish. You know... a PLAN?
Instead, they split the movies up with different writers and directors.
Imagine Dune was only the first three books... now imagine if the second book was written by Stephen King.
Disney, in its hubris, made all the wrong moves. They're like a spoiled brat that pays tons of money for an endangered animal, abuses it til it dies, then goes back to abusing the wait staff.
If JJ couldn't stay for a full Trilogy, he should have at least worked closely with Rian Johnson, but would that really have worked? And sadly, that original script for episode 9 sounded good. It just needed the same guy writing for episode 8, at least. Even with JJ leaving after episode 7, 8 could have done a lot in tandem with 9 to make that script functional AND satisfying with the exception of the First Order being so powerful so soon after the fall of the Empire.
Really, if Disney didn't scrap the EU, people probably would have been fine; again with the hubris, erasing over two decades of beloved material that only the craziest of fans even read was a silly route to take, and it was all so they didn't have to pay more money... despite dumping four billion dollars on Lucas's lap.
That level of maturity is expected. Disney needed to shove out movies to make out for their multibillion dollar purchase, so they assembled a quick and dumb team who wouldn't be scared of the Star Wars brand (Rian Johnson, for example.)
The entire final encounter was reorganized around an effing horseback charge. Smh.
The biggest problem with episode 9 is the person who directed 7 didn't leave enough to complete. They were too interested in putting everything in a mystery box.
@@endjentneeringclub Nah, Luke's character development in 8 is perfect and is completely in line with who he was as a character.
I do hate how right this is. There wasn’t anything else Luke could be after how episode 7 established the universe.
@@DominicSnyder "Nah, Luke's character development in 8 is perfect and is completely in line with who he was as a character."
Doing a fake-out hologram death, only to die anyway afterward?
@@StofenThe1st you must be smoking crack
Star Wars ep7 The Memberberries Mystery Box.
What's in the box? What about (×), (y), (z) ? What's (character)'s story? I'm sure the answers are going to be amazing.
Star Wars ep.8 F You, F Your Fan Theories, and F The Memberberries, I'm out! Gimme my own trilogy now, Mickey!
What's in the box? Nothing. What about (story), (character), (plot) ? It doesn't matter. They're dead now. Lulz. You mad bro?
Star Wars ep.9 Wait! Wait! Wait! Actually...uh...hang on, hold up! 'Member memberberries? Look, horses...in spaaaace! Palpatine is back! Jingle jingle look at the keys!
Ep 7 was like discovering cancer, ep 8 was you losing to it, ep 9 was a death rattle as the nurses pulled the plug.
53:05 "It's easier to imagine him having a history with a human being than with a rubber creature."
**Offended Chuwbacca roar**
I still dont understand why they didn't make Rey's self made weapon not be a spear-esque weapon. Could even make the blade part detacheable to be used as a standard lightsaber if pinched for space. You know, tying to her earlier combat expertise, making it really her weapon forged for her own path ahead, rather than "more of the same, but yellow!"
Right? Or at least make it a double bladed saber, that's the closest to her "staff" she can really get. Although a light saber pike has been seen in legends and other material so it's not a crazy idea. That's the point though, these movies actively work against new ideas, and just insist on rehashing everything we've seen cause it's "cool." 😂😂
@@dexterbunco4212 I retroactively HATE the force awakens. When it came out, I actually liked it quite a bunch. As the first movie of a trilogy, and it was meant to be the first movie of a trilogy (unlike, say A New Hope), it set up some interesting possibilities imo. Everything could be more polished, that is empty pseudo-criticism, so what stood out to me was what seemed to be the seeds of lots of interesting potentials... later movies confirmed were all just that, an impression, they weren't there because the last director is the same one and he delivered none of it either. Just another unsatisfying, empty "mystery box" - all hype, all external decoration, nothing comes out of it because there was never any content in it.
What a disappointment.
This makes me sad because literally any of the early scripts would have been leaps and bounds better than what we ended up getting
I’ve never seen a movie devolve throughout its development usually it’s the opposite
JJ Abrams is such a hack lol
It’s oddly satisfying to hear a TH-camr that doesn’t tell you to comment, like, and subscribe… and oddly enough I feel inclined to do all three 🤷♂️
My key takeaway from this video is this - it's very easy for a series of changes (many of which are understandable, driven by necessity, or even positive!) to have a cumulative negative effect. It's easy - and very fun - to dunk on this particular example, but the lesson is applicable to lots of our own creative endeavors.
Facts. This video does an excellent job showing the domino effect of "well this needs to happen, so this happens" completely mauling a story that probably should have been figured out before principal photography on episode 7 even started...
I would admit that the idea that Skywalker would evolve into a messianic-like title, bestowed on a hero destined to correct an imbalance maligning each generation could have been very compelling. Too bad that the Rise of Skywalker completely falls flat to communicate this idea.
Literally the Avatar(the bender of four elements.)
I truly hope they bring more of Ahsoka's Anakin into the future of SW, at least they made a good decision with him for once.
😂😂 and then george lucas's plagiarism of Dune would have finally been complete
this is one of the most honest and fair looks at the behind the scenes of this film I have seen, but im only 20 minutes in.
i seriously hate the entire sequel trilogy due to kk firing the best team of people only to replace him with j j and j j was a bland choice to replace colin and derek the movie gives george lucas the big f you and a big f you to real hardcore star wars fans iv been a hardcore star wars fan since 1997 these films are terrible riddled with pllotholes and things never ever getting fully explained people say the last jedi is the best film since empire which i serioiusly strongly disagree slipknot 2014 album did way better than last jedi and force awakens including way better than the rise of skywalker the reason why am saying this that slipknot made a album without joey or paul and made something as hard and as heavy as iowa and self titled heck even we are not your kind did way better than the star wars sequel trilogy sorry i broght up music but im going to say something thats gong to piss manbabys star wars sequel fans off batman forever was a way better film incuding stand by me and of course pee wees big adventure and batman 1989 and the dark knight the dark knight rises and batman begins and batman returns than the entire sequel trilogy
Eh? How can you be ‘fair and honest’ about…behind the scenes? How can you NOT be? Your comment doesnt make any sense.
Yuup
@@turtleanton6539 if you give it time and thought the entire sequel trilogy is pure trashfire all 3 films are riddled with plotholes that never ever get explained
@@thereturnofdarthcaedus not reading all that but I'm happy for you. or sorry that happened.
Anything with Coruscant would've been excellent. Exegol was so piss poor, but that's JJ for you
Part of the Abrams problem was introducing half-baked new characters and planets, so someone should had banned him from creating new ones because he can't develop the ones he already had properly.
That payoff at the end of using a discarded movie as a valuable tool for learning was the cherry on top of that theme that you kept reminding us about. I can’t believe I just watched/listened to an hour long documentary. Well done
Personally, I always thought that Palpatine's story about creating life (and the preserving as well for that matter) was a massive lie, specifically done to manipulate Anakin to the Dark Side, and I like that George Lucas left it ambiguous and an exercise to the audience.
Same. I never liked that. To be honest even as a kid I was never super into Leah being Luke’s sister, seemed awfully convenient to me. So having palpatine be the grandad really would’ve been pushing it for me.
@@iwritechecksatthegrocerystore As far as I know, from some old articles I remember reading about crafting the first trilogy, originally Leia was not Luke's sister - that's why that kiss exists - but Luke was supposed to have a sister, and she was going to be somebody Luke would be searching for in some later movie. But Lucas' divorce and some other things made him decide to make a trilogy, at least then, not anything longer like he had sort of planned originally (there seems to have been kind of plan A, plan B, and possibly even plan C, depending on how well the first movie did - one of them being "Splinter of the Minds Eye", published as a novel, but that would have been made into a movie if Lucas had been able to make just one sequel to the first movie - but then Lucas decided he'd make a whole new plan after that divorce) and while Lucas wanted to keep the sister they then decided to combine the characters of Leia and the unknown sister instead of introducing a new character, and so Leia became Luke's secret sister.
Also, I remember reading that there may have been some hints in some interviews back in the 80s that originally the plan may have been to kill Han, after a bit of a love triangle problem, and Leia then ending up with Luke, in the conventional "hero gets the girl" style. Well, before she was made into his sister that is. Possibly that was ditched because Han turned out to be way too popular as a character. And while during the first and the second movie there were teams, team Han and team Luke, when it came to who she should end up with, I gather that team Han was rather bigger or at least noisier, and that affected at least somewhat the decision to go with Han/Leia. Of course, after that making Leia and Luke into siblings nicely solved the problem of the main hero losing in love because that would have been a bit of a bummer no matter how popular the Han/Leia pairing was, and maybe give the Luke/Han bromance some unwanted complications.
But yep, I agree that connecting Palpatine to the birth of Anakin was a bit too much. It would have been much better if he had simply been clearly told to be a half-orphan when we first see him, with his mom maybe having had a short marriage or affair with a man she really didn't know much of anything about because he had died in some accident or something almost immediately after they had gotten together and he had gotten her pregnant. Some nobody. And then Palpatine just realizes the kid's huge potential when he first sees him.
@@pohjanakka4992 You are correct about the situation involving "Splinter in the Mind's Eye".
The same thing with the "strike me down" line in the throne room - it was to manipulate Luke to the Dark Side. There doesn't need to be some stupid rationale about "oh I have another body to inhabit after this one" which this video's creator likes for some reason. It was literally just that Palpatine wanted Luke to lose control of his emotions, and he knew a rookie Jedi with minimal training wasn't actually a threat to his life.
@@pohjanakka4992 ...some of that's correct. Originally, Luke and Leia were not meant to be siblings (although they were in the earlier drafts of A New Hope, but that was when Luke was still a 60-something war veteran). George planned to have Luke's sister be someone else who had been hidden away by their father (who was not Vader initially) and trained as a Jedi. However, during the production of The Empire Strikes Back, George decided to make Vader and Anakin one in the same, and after deciding he didn't want to make a whole new trilogy (after just how difficult the productions of Episodes lV and V were) he decided to rework the whole lost sister subplot by making Leia Luke's sister (which makes sense, since she was basically the only named girl in Star Wars at the time). This is probably untrue, but I think George was leaning in this direction as early as when The Empire Strikes Back was in production, considering how at the end, Luke and Leia communicate through the Force in a manner suspiciously similar to Luke and Vader's conversation. It may be that George just decided not to tell anyone about this until Return Of The Jedi was being made (because of course he would).
As for Han, as far as I know, Lawrence Kasdan and Harrison Ford both petitioned for Han to die in Episode Vll (Harrison because he was sick of playing Han at this point, and Lawrence for... whatever reason), but George shot them both down as he didn't see any reason why such a thing needed to happen in the story.
Palpatine is not connected to Anakin's birth. Anakin was created by the midi-chlorians in order to fulfill the prophecy of destroying the Sith and bringing balance to the Force (this would've been properly explained in George's Sequels, but of course, we didn't get that story).
The worst part of Rey taking the name Skywalker at the end is that it was set up so well in the Burning Man part for her to instead say Rey…just Rey but this time being proud of it instead of sad like before
I loved when she was the daughter of nobodies
They could have had her learn and take her mother's name if she didn't want to embrace her Palpatine side. The Skywalker thing was hated by everyone. Maybe they'll retcon it in the new movie.
It's basically a bad fanfic of nostalgia bait and call backs, with scenes they thought were so cool that they purposefully rearranged the film to fit them in, in an effort to make it make sense, but just confusing it even more by doing so.
Thank you for overview of Trevarow's script. Other videos didn't lay it out nearly as well. And I love the sarcasm as it is well-deserved.
A note about The Room: The crew tried to make The Room a decent film, but Tommy fired anyone who questioned him and he never ever took advice from anyone. He was a dictator on set, and he squandered away a great crew and millions of dollars.
JJ Abrams, Chris Terrio and Pablo Hidalgo are living proof that one can know a whole lot about a certain subject while simultaneously either not understand it or be completely clueless as to why people love it
The benefits of a singular vision permeate this documentary. When I look at the group meetings at 2:41 I see a committee, which is antithetical to good storytelling. Everyone has their little pet ideas (the horses, the not-so-subtle messaging). When this “committee debris” is allowed into the script, it only serves to compromise the tightness of the story. There is a lot of committee debris in RoS that doesn’t serve the overall story, so audiences finish it feeling unsatisfied.
I just wanted to say that this is the most well researched and informative video about the making of this movie that I have seen. From inception to release. It was amazing.
Fuck, every time I hear that Duel of the Fates script summary I get upset. It actually could have saved the trilogy.
It wouldn’t have made sense for Kylo to have been the one to have killed Rey’s parents, because he was still being trained under Luke and wasn’t “Kylo Ren” yet.
With a name change and some corrections it could have saved the trilogy, yes. Instead we got this sterile rendition.
@@matro2 it seems like a Lord of the Rings RIP off in space.
duel of the fates would have been much worse.
@@user-ly2ll5od1r I genuinely believe that resurrecting Palpatine is the absolute lowest and most desperate of any creative decision that could’ve been made. So I’m at a place where I don’t think anything that avoided bringing Palpatine back could be worse. This is as bad as it gets as long as that story point is here.
They raised the question of what Rey's friends would think if they discovered she had a dark lineage. They raised the question of how she would act knowing where she came from after finding herself in the last film.
They then did not bother to answer the question.
They retconned one of the best story beats of the last film for hardly any pay off.
It also kills me that there's been so many opportunities for a better story in Rise that they consistently ignore.
They didn't even bother to ask the question. I'm STILL waiting to learn what Finn wanted to ask/tell(?) Rey...
JJ's mystery box at the finest
They didn't even bother to take 30 seconds to explain how Maz Kanata got the lightsaber
@@Early2000sCringeThe only question they needed to answer was the one that The Last Jedi setup, what if Rey was an original character, original person, living her own situations that aren't a verbatim remake of Luke Skywalker's adventures but she is a woman as the only difference.
And apply the same to every character
you didn't mention that Ben shows up on evil planet in an original trilogy tie fighter he took from the death star wreck. a ship that is specifically mentioned in ep IV to NOT have a hyperdrive so cannot travel between star systems.
I am blown away by how much better the original plot for the film was. Not saying it was Oscar-winning material, but wow is that better than the turd it eventually became.
The Duel of the Fates draft actually makes so much sense. It's as if they took bits from the actually somewhat coherent story and rearanged them into the monstrosity we witnessed.
Eh it was better but if you read through the whole of you'll see plenty more issues. Not quite as many as we got in the end but enough to sour it. At least it actually gave Rey the double bladed lightsaber, still don't understand why they never gave it to her in the end.
@@StofenThe1stIn fairness, it was a first draft. It did have a lot more potential as a coherent narrative, though!
@@StofenThe1stat least it was just mediocre and not bad 😂
@@DuplexWeevil337 I guess so. At least it included my beloved super star destroyer Eclipse!
My question is just… why?
It's actually so funny hearing just how many random elements from Duel of the Fates were included in The Rise of Skywalker. I am now firmly confident that this movie was made with sticky notes. Whenever someone was pitching a plot for this movie, whether it be Collin Trevorrow, George Lucas, or who ever else, a few key words were written on sticky notes and plastered all over the writers' room, only for their origin and context to be forgotten about. It's the same thing that happened with the dagger, which was originally meant to be the Dagger of Mortis, as per George's pitch. Someone wrote "dagger" on a sticky note. Someone wrote "childlike alien" on a sticky note. Someone wrote "Kylo giving Rey his life force" on a sticky note.
So disney has been using a method for several years at least in which key elements are filmed with several different somewhat open-ended variations in essence using a "choose Your own adventure" type format allowing for flexibility in editing trying to cover their asses having become too afraid to take the financial risk of gambling on filmmakers and storytellers with the key element for epic works of entertainment in any medium Artists who put the work in front of profits are problematic for the dead sheep in business types and their answer is test audience reaction tailoring to find the right combination via wash rinse repeat forgetting that what made the choose Your own adventure books worth reading for the audience was the choices not the generally mediocre story's but disney kept the choices to themselves and give audiences their attempts to please everyone chasing the box office not timelessness
@@jaycarlisle5770 Holy shit man
Some punctuation
PLEASE
Sticky Note Wars LOL
@@jaycarlisle5770 Thank you for reminding me, they did this with Wish too; their 100th anniversary movie, and it seems to have just been cut together like a jigsaw because doing it this way "gives them more creative freedom". Well, it bombed, so so much for that.
Disney has lost its sense of restraint, since now EVERYTHING can be "fixed in post". They don't even have a story finished when they start shooting/animating - and I don't mean that stories don't get changed during the movie-making process, but that they start without having an end goal; like a marathon where nobody is told where the finish line is.
With every installment in the sequel trilogy, I kept having the same wish: I want to know more about the Knights of Renn. Since episode 8 came out, I thought it would be very interesting (and refreshing) if they had made the knights as the prominent bad guys; and when 9 came along I was convinced that the integration of the knights into the main arc would turn this franchise into another classic.
With the (supposedly) notorious Knights of Renn as the main antagonists spread through the series, the sequel trilogy would have been more interesting. They would be a constant (and incresingly harder) irritation for our rebels to overcome, and a dilemmatic anchor that keeps tugging at Kylo's journey back to the light side of the force. Rey would have to 'level up' fast and hard if she wants to have any hope of fulfilling her destiny (what IS her destiny, anyway?)
Point is, we have a bunch of under-utilized side characters that bear the same name as one of our main characters. The plot practically writes itself. Such a shame.
This is an excellent presentation. By about the 59 minute mark in this video it seems like a project gone completely sideways. There was no way to finish this film successfully. I wonder if at this point the bean counters were punching holes in the wall with their own foreheads seeing the point of no return and an obvious total failure. "Oh, well. Let's finish the fu**ing thing and see how it does when it comes out".
Really though the biggest problem of this trilogy was that nothing meant anything. They had numerous options for a meaningful story and took none of them because Abrams thinks macguffins are a replacement for storytelling.
It's funny how this trilogy gets even worse with time, even though it was awful to begin with.
I disagree about it not being important to know how Palpatine was brought back. Without that info there is no way to be sure he couldn’t come back again.
that's what they want
Agreed, it's lazy writing as well and it can be bad writing sometimes to bring characters back from the dead.
Episode XII. Palpatine Returns Somehow!
I watched this a year ago. Rewatching now. This is such a breathe of fresh air comparing it to the sheer volume of Star Wars “hot takes” on TH-cam. Every other video on the platform regurgitates subjective feelings about this film. Where as this is a highly researched and laid out obituary of a film. Incredible video
That original script sounds so much better than what we got
The problem with TROS start with TFA.
A soft reboot and slavishly repeating the OT would never be anything be unsatisfying. Especially when they didn’t include the one thing that made the OT so great: The characters and their relationships.
I feel like Disney has been rebooting alot of shows, like the OG disney animations turned live action. Then, when they want to deviate like for Mulan as well, it upsets everyone.
Disney is a mess.
@@MrMinecraftGamer456 Well deviation is fine as long as you don't stray too far. Clone Wars showed this rather well.
The problem is that JJ is extremely shallow. He saw A New Hope and Empire as the only true Star Wars and that George Lucas was a bad director, so there were absolutely no references to the prequels at all in TFA and he probably felt that making A New Hope again would somehow get the franchise back on track. He also felt that prequels = bad because politic scenes = bad, resulting in the worst worldbuilding I've ever scene. The result being that the New Republic only exists in a single solar system? The rebels are the Empire, but also the rebels are also the resistance. Also the First Order reigns already, but also the Emperor reigns, but apparently the First Orders need more ships for some reason? Also the Empire gets outnumbered by...Lando?
Palpatine can't die. But also Palpatine wants to die. Also Palpatine dies. Okay then. Good to know we'll never understand the political situation in the galaxy, they just have a forever Emperor in charge now.
Especially when it undoes all character arcs and achievements of original trilogy. Empire hasn't fallen, Sith aren't gone, Han and Leia are not together, they are shitty parents, Luke left everyone like a coward, no Jedi order, New Republic is destroyed in seconds, another Death Star...and now Palpatine is back.
Agreed with everything you just said. Even though storytelling from 1977-'83 is different and must evolve, Disney wrecks everything. Lucas sold his franchise for $12 billion, just like Jim Henson had every intent to sell his workshop to Disney before his death to get cash grabs. Lucas and The Hensons wanted unlimited bankrolling for projects, but in return conveyor belt screenwriters are given the job of world crafting on a tight schedule. Disney is only interested in selling merch, building ride attractions, and repeat Blu Ray releases. Another thing that sticks in my craw is the toxic fandom SW has. It ties directly into Gamergate because scifi/fantasy/anime has always been marketed to white middle class males, which is why they felt "attacked by diversity", not that Disney correctly addresses racism, feminism, and LGBTQ relationships. Then there's the 'shipper crap, IDGAF if you like Stormpilot, Reylo, or FinnRose all that works ONLY in fanart and fanfics. In the OT Leia and Han were CLEARLY going to happen, Kennedy stated Dameron was not going to be a LGBTQ character, that was not how Dameron and Finn were written. Oscar Issac is a flirtatious actor and man, and the only reason why his character was given an entire life DURING TFA's filming was because of his looks. The Disney corporation pays lipservice to the LGBTQ community, it donates money to the GOP, and Disney family members are legacy execs and they are racist and homophobic, they would never sign off on an LGBTQ character for this kind of franchise. And the cast and Abrams pushed shipper crap because they knew the films were fails and depended on social media pot stirring to make their money back.
Holy shit all of this is literally a write's nightmare. They had a good story with character arcs, and they threw it all away for no reason.
17:40 I'd recognize that music anywhere! Damn it I love Knights Of The Old Republic. That will always be the epitome of Star Wars coolness to me
What an absolutely brilliant video. Thank you. And for your amusement, the "its not a phase! Dad!" Had me laughing out loud in the store while I was paying for my shopping 😂😊
It's very strange to me they felt this need to impart a hero can come from anywhere. And its referenced that heroes don't just come from high status families like the Skywalkers.
Did they all forget Anakin was a child slave who rose to prominence?
Not to mention that it was one of the primary functions of the Jedi that they took force sensitive children from every conceivable background to teach and train. Force sensitivity and age were pretty much the only selection criteria.
I don't mind the theme. I also don't mind the theme they had to try to show that things that get "thrown away" can become super valuable when looked at from another perspective etc. BUT! If you are a story teller you CANNOT sacrice story and character for THEMES. I makes it so that people don't like your story and won't get the THEMES either. The production crew of Rise of Skywalker got hyperfocused on themes and scenes and not Story and Character and it really suffered because of that. So sad.
Rey was the same though yet people love anakin but hate rey ?????
@@ghostbuster7575 Yeah, but they didn’t undermine Anakin by retroactively making him part of some really important pre-established family. The whole point is that he could have been anyone, he just happened to be a Skywalker. By going back and making Rey a Palpatine, after they already had a perfectly workable “Rey is the child of nobodies” thing going, they undermined that theme. If you’re trying to make a story with the message of “dynasties don’t matter“ making your main character retroactively the child of one of the most important characters in the previous stories sends some pretty major mixed signals.
"When everyone's super, NO ONE WILL BE." - Syndrome
Fascinating video. The whole trilogy just felt like it ultimately wasn't made by creative people, even if there were creative ideas here and there.
It was made to generate maximum profit for Disney. I'd like to think they may have learned a lesson or two from this experience but I sadly doubt it.
The Leader isn't creative but she believes she is.
@@arthurballs9632 you mean abbrams since he is the one creating the story right?
@@A2forty 1. TFA was written by Michael Arndt, but his script was rewritten by Lawrence Kasdan (Empire, RotJ) and JJ Abrams.
2. TLJ was written by Rian Johnson, at the personal invitation of Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy. RJ had weeks of meetings with the Lucasfilm storygroup before he went away and wrote the script.
3. TRoS was written by Derek Connolly, Colin Trevorrow, JJ Abrams, and Chris Terrio, with the final two being invited in at the last minute as Trevorrow had walked/been shoved out.
The failure of the trilogy lies mainly with the president of Lucasfilm regardless of the efforts of entry-level gaslighters to find scapegoats for her colossal mismanagement of the trilogy.
it seems like it was made by too many people, trying to put in everyones ideas to please all then reversing those when they aren't received well (cough Rose cough) and listening to much to us on the internet. Yes, we will gripe and complain, but have a solid idea and stick with it despite our whinging and we will respect it, even if we wished it went differently.
This was a great video that helped me understand how my least favorite Star Wars movie happened. Even though the earlier drafts of the story are more compelling, they don't fix a problem I have with Rise of Skywalker, that it spends so much time explaining ideas and items. Star Wars has always been about the characters first
I forgot this movie exisited, and I was so happy.
Thank you for the video though, it sheds important light on the situation, and i can't imagine the amount of effort that must've been poured into making this video.
The more I learn about the Episode 9 we almost got, the more pissed I am at the Episode 9 we actually did get.
From what I’ve heard, there was an attempt by some executives to sue Kennedy because they actually were able to watch an edit of the film done by George Lucas that was apparently MUCH better than what was released. In fact, it also was screened to test audiences and received a higher rating as well. Now, it’s not likely the Lucas cut will ever be seen simply because if it was released, it could validate their claim that Kennedy knowingly rejected the better movie in favor of the one that had more of her personal ideas and preferences than Lucas’s cut did.
@@kidwajagstang dude cite your source :3. There's no Lucas cut. And even if it was true, how would that ever be a good ground for a lawsuit.
@@kidwajagstang Lucas was not involved. He said so in an interview he had nothing to do with the films. He simply gave his plans/ideas to Disney, and they bought the ideas but said they may or may not use his stories.
@@10ToesDownWithBass What a backpedal you just made
@@lingricen8077 it's not a backpedal. Lucas was not involved. He wanted to be, and tried to pitch ideas, but Disney rejected him. Even though Disney bought the rights to his new ideas he said they did not use any of them.
This is the absolute best video i've seen dissecting this movie - really fantastic work getting to the bottom of it
This video is jam-packed with detail and information. Great job.
Wow so much detail. Very impressive dude good job