Would You Own a Yacht This WEIRD? | Learning the Lines
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
- The ethos behind these very odd looking yachts is safety, simplicity, performance, and affordability. For example, what other 60 foot performance multihull could you DIY build to compare to similar sized multi-million dollar yachts, but for 1/10th of the cost or less? I'll answer that, there isn't one.
This is why I love these boats, despite their odd look. Realistically, the outside the box thinking of Rob Denney is very refreshing in an industry where it seems that all the major brands are converging and becoming as similar as possible.
What do you think? Leave a comment below.
Sorry, I made a mistake with the on screen link! The correct Harryproa Website:
www.harryproa.com/
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Learning the Lines is a channel about us, an average couple in our 20's, with big dreams to be sailing the world by the time we're in our 30's. We're not afraid to jump into anything, put in the work, and learn as we go. We started out with Somnium, an O'day 272, moved onto Freebie, an Endeavour 32, and now are focusing on sailboat tours and working full time as teachers while we save up for our next boat.
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At 42 minutes you forgot the a in the website listed on screen
You're right! Sorry about that. It's correct in the description. Pinning this so people see it.
@@LearningtheLines but thanks for putting this design on the radar, I agree with you, it’s a design that grows on you. I’d love to see a completed tour when there available
@@LearningtheLines Agreed with Ryan. This design really grows on you. Would love to see a walk through video of his different designs!
Cool story wish I could sail one
How much did it cost and what model? How much of the build did you do?
OK, so I actually own a harry proa and about 5 weeks ago my boat took a direct hit from a 300 meter container ship and didn´t even take on water. The sacrificial ends on the hulls worked much better than I ever would have imagined and the boat itself is indestructible.
I must show this post to my friend who thinks steel is required for boat toughness
Hello,
Can you please direct me to where I can purchase a Harry Proa. I’m in Australia and would like to try one.
What model? How much of the work did you do and how much did you spend?
@@mementoVIDEOS Just google "harryproa".
So you were adrift & this massive ship sneaks up on you & runs directly into one of your bows? Or did you sail your boat directly into a massive ship?
I'm not even a sailor, but I find Proas fascinating. Great interview.
For me ,at like 9 minutes I was like this is all gold. This whole video is great content. Thank you.
Just watched this for a second time. There are so many useful thought trains in this interview. Could be applied to a lot of boats.
At first glance I thought, what’s the point, just another “crackpot” design. But after watching your interview, the design is very intriguing, and quite elegant, especially for those who want to sail shorthanded. If one is capable of constructing it themselves, let’s say for $300 grand or so, the cost and the satisfaction of doing it yourself, is fantastic! I would love to see one in action!
Robs got a few sailing videos on his site, but a really comprehensive video of a sailing session would be a great thing,
Would love to see you on one of the Harry's. The whole thing was really interesting but seeing one sailed would be a great video.
I freaking love everything about this boat. I want to become a family member of this group.
you just need money... :P
Harry Proa‘s … for me Love at first sight. The big dream …
I have been waiting (albeit I did not know it) for this video. this is the most awesome video you have posted IMHO. I am going to watch this again. all of the cons of regular mono and multi hull sailing have just been answered. This boat blows them away. thank you for taking the time and resources to bring this video to us.
Simply wonderful and inspiring. Many years ago, inspired by Bernard Smith's 1963 classic _The Forty Knot Sailboat,_ I build a model proa based on his design and got third place in my school's Science Fair. It was fun but I made mistakes of scale- as did Smith.
But proas are simply cool. All the best to this project to give fishermen the sea and wind again.
Cheers from landlocked Vienna, Scott
This has been a really interesting video! If there is more to say and show, PLEASE go for it!! Thanks for such an innovative episode!!
I.have been corresponding with Rob for 20 years. He.is incredibly humble and helpful. I.have an earlycedar planked 8 meter version that I love. Just one quibble is that it is possible to get hit by.the boom if.its too low in.a wind shift - I have done it. Probably completely safe on a 50 or 60.
Currently.awaiting recovery from a health problem before beginning a 50. I have very carefully estimated costs for the 50 at between 100k and 120k usd including labor in.Thailand, where I live. The price range only depends on extras like electric winches, radar, instruments, etc. Normal basic boat including sails.would be close to 100k.
As an example of Robs kindness, about 3 years ago I bought the plans and shortly after thought I couldnt peoceed. Rob immediately offered to return the money without me asking. It now seems I.will peoceed this year.
Thank you Rob for all your kindness and help over.the decades.
I owned a 16' proa forty years ago. It was called a Hilu. I think it was made by AMF Alcort, the Sunfish and Sailfish company. It had a rig and rudder identical to those on the Sunfish. It was a trailerable boat and a lot of fun but strictly a solo sailor as it could not manage much weight. It was one of the most enjoyable boats I have ever owned.
I just looked into the designs of the harry proa. It's pretty genius, especially the cargo version.
Love it! It is asymmetrical but it isn't at the same time. If I ever decide to build a boat it will be this one.
Such a fascinating idea! Thanks so much for bringing this to us.
Great interview If Rob Denny wasn't describing it himself, you'd probably think the video of the catamaran with the wind turbine (@ 3:00) in was fake. Great interview with a fearless and creative innovator. I think his humble, playful and creative attitude towards his work is a breath of fresh air. Lots of interesting discussion about a truly novel cruiser design.
The windmill was on several sites about 20.uears ago. Could find.it on archive I think.
It will be interesting to see the C60 get launched and sailed. Great ideas and interesting concept . Thanks for the interview with the designer.
Wow such a cool video. Thank you for sharing this with us! I’m definitely more inclined now to explore these designs with a more open mind!
I hope there are hundreds of guys like this around the world designing and building!!!
I am enjoying this episode so much I'm subscribing twice, now with my work phone. Hey, it helps the with algorithm. Thank you for the content.
Thank you for doing this interview, these are really cool boats.
Fascinating... Thank you for sharing this.
What a fascinating episode. I would love to hear more about the windmill design, too!
This guy is a genius
I love the idea of this proa design, hope to see some of them finished and not only as rendering. Its somewhat between a Catamaran and Trimaran. There are some videos on YT with bigger ones that are not only for coastal/camper sailing. (Durch & German)
In Poland there is a yearly meeting for proa sailors, most of them are more small like the hoby cats.
This is your most interesting vlog yet! Sure interesting design, thanks for the informative video!
This is fascinating! Thank you so much for sharing.
Great video. This content is appreciated.
I looked these pretty seriously when I was making decisions what type of boat to build. There's definitely so much good things with them. If I was _at all_ into catamarans, it would be no-braner!
I'm sold.
OK, now I've watched this twice and researched the design. I love it.
Totally amazing, as someone who is nearly 60 and would love to sail, the idea of not having to run around the foredeck or have to go up a tall mast seems very appealing, Thank you both.
What a beautiful way to spend the summer.....that should be a yearly trip.....
Your doing good work with these left field self build options. This and the troublemaker yacht are good options for people that want to do something different.
I think this design is probably the biggest innovation in multihull design since the full-buoyancy-float trimaran was invented.
It shares a lot of characteristics with Warrham catamarans. Chief among them are simplicity, seaworthiness, but relatively spare accommodations for its length.
Yes , more spare ccommodations , but you still have everything needed for relative comfort.
Less can sometimes be more , especially when it comes to fitout and maintenance too.
Nice! I’m doing some crazy stuff with my Iroquois and it cool to see he used one for his windmill cat!
I LOVE IT! 15 yrs younger and I would have one!! Have extensively cruised most of my life. All kinds of boats. Man, this just makes sense to. Hey. You guys should build one! I love thinking out of the box. I am also a supporter of Para-anchors. Ive used them and always carried one and he brings out very valid points. Forty foot area sounds a lot more doable and should still be quite adequate. Maybe the C 50 ! Yes. I want one.
Another brilliant eye opening interview/discussion. Thank you same disinter of the Trouble Maker?
Awesome. I already was a fan of free standing masts. Still waiting for you to tour a Freedom.
That design looks AWESOME
NO NO NO ~ This Proa is not weird. It's beautiful very beautiful and it gets better looking every time I look at it. The Cargo Proa is the ONE tho... much more real estate and cabin. LOVE THIS !!
Great job with bringing interesting videos. I have been very intrigued with proas for awhile and this certainly renewed that interest. I am also curious about what type of wing sail he made a reference to.
This is a good design and I can't argue with any of his critique.
Rob is very passionate and his posts on various forums always make for interesting reading. Good interview.
Good addition. Definitely expand on this style if the opportunity is there, please.
I like Rael Dobkins' latest poplar plywood Proa build. One Force 213. Been following both builders for years, along with small boat upgrader atomvoyager. All well worth following.
Try and locate a copy of his engineering calculations, and where he buys his insurance.
I am glad that new designs are in the works, traditional seems outdated these designs allow for more versatility, hope to see a channel using them.
I've been looking for a design that could incorporate solar power and wind a stayless mast design for simplicity and ability to cover the deck between hulls with solar seems to be perfect. Thanks for bringing this design to my attention.
when are you starting your build? awesome design and what a cool dude.
He's the Burt Rutan of sailing vessels !!
Great comparison. To be fair, this concept (Large windward hull on an Atlantic Proas first promoted seriously by Joseph Norwood in his book "modified-Pacific
Proas" in 21st Century Multihulls, but Rob is the main promoter and developer of the concept .
This is really interesting. You have to get a tour on one of these.
Wow awesome boats. Its the same thing I'm doing in terms of a unique boat but completely different design.
Great interview I totally enjoyed it. I don't know which boat is crazier that odd try marian you did a video on about two to three months ago or these designs.
wow interesting boat, something to think about like the look/ideas, maybe a project??
I’d be keen to see the longer version
Fascinating
Wow Jordan, you've fallen down the Proa rabbit hole, there's no escaping now 🤣🤣🤣 welcome to the club! There are so many schools of thought on this and so many things are still untried, most of what Rob said about the safety aspects of a harry is similar or the same on other Proa's too, especially about deploying drogues and parachute anchors, likewise the biggest con of a Proa (even harry's) is resale value, they are "weird" so near impossible to sell (much worse than a trimaran) so if you build/buy one, know there is a very small market for used ones, expect it to take many years to find a buyer.
Agree about the drogues, but not about the other safety aspects of non Harry proas. In particular, accommodation, stayed rigs, in hull rudders/daggerboards, headsails, weight, safety, cost and capsize resistance.
Resale value is correct. It is a small, but rapidly growing market. Take the following cat/tri numbers with a grain of salt, they are for explanation only.
If you buy a mew tri or cat for $2 million and a similar size/space/performance new Harryproa for half a million (no inboard motors, smaller, simpler rig, lighter, less complex, simpler to build) and after a couple of years you get sick of all the cat/tri maintenance and needing to find crew to help you sail it, you may sell it for 1.5 mill, assuming you have kept everything working, replaced the sails, etc. Your capital loss is the same as the Harryproa cost. You could give the Harry to a worthy cause and be no poorer (apart from the cat tri higher upkeep costs) than if you had gone the tri route. Sell it, and you are ahead.
Resale value on ANY Proa is tricky, but you show me another design that has an engineering certificate to go with the title.
Also, show me another Proa design that has been so commercially accepted.
" most of what Rob said about the safety aspects of a harry is similar or the same on other Proa's too,"
No, that's no necessarily true. For the life of me, I can't think of another design with unstayed masts, and the fact that a HarryProa is an "Atlantic" proa, (weight to windward) differentiates it from the plethora af amatuer "Pacific Proas" that have to keep their Ama above the water , and to leeward.
The story of the "proa whose name eludes me" that withdrew from the Everglades race, is a stark testimony to the discomfort that Pacific Proas in heavy weather. The crew was too exposed, and uncomfortable in wave slamming sleeping pods.
That is a cool sailboat. If I was younger, I would build one.
Amazing ... Cheers...
Definitely unique designs. The interior options could be set up for anywhere from a crew of 6 to a single couple with lots of storage. Thank you Jordan. Best wishes to Randi and Morgan. Have a great weekend.
Best one yet.
So cool
Thank you covering this boat i have been looking at the Harry Pro for about 2 years now,. This video really has helped me understand a lot more about the design. It was a great episode!
Where is the Video, I really like this!
Best sailboat EVER .
Very interesting, I've been just recently doing a deep dive through Wharram's assorted catamaran designs, who also came to the same conclusion on schooner rigged moddified gaff sails or crabclaws being pretty much just as good for hugely reduced effort in all things except specifically a triangle yacht regatta. Also accidentally answered a question I've had for ages but never been concerned enough to actually look for the answer to, "what do you do when the wind shifts in a single outrigger boat?" with the very obvious-in-retrospect "they're double ended, you just sail it the other way". If/When I get a yacht of my own, odds are good that it'll be one of either HarryProa's or JamesWharram's, or taking a great deal of inspiration if I build mine entirely from scratch for the first or second (I have some rather exotic ideas in mind that will require a lot of custom accommodations in hull design)
Sail more build less , then exotic ideas .
They are wierd and wonderful.
I've never seen one in person. But a few people have built variations on the Proa. I also don't quite understand all the ins and outs of their handling and sailing qualities.
But definitely thought provoking
Any questions, feel free to ask.
I am abput to build a proa my self. I find Harry Proas very fascinating. I like the ease of operation and smart ways to handle the loads on. All boats are many compromises. Everyone has to find what is important for them and choose the design that meets those criteria the best way. I personally do not need a ton of clothes. I like function over form, but that is me. I think Harryproa is a good way to not follow the crowd. Not all will like them, but they don't need to love them. I like them. That is good enough for me. Best regards from Tor Arve from TCDucks Adventure
The design makes me think of traditional Hawaiian vessels. Those things look amazing, and these look fairly similar in design.
Intriguing design
Comparable & compreble are two vastly different ducks...look it up. One means equal to, the other is about how they might vary. That's one hell of a fabulous interview..like'd every moment...& I couldn't help wonder if skipper Riley of V. has considered these points...& my guess is Riley & Elaina are all about 'air conditioning & the espresso machine then practicality's.
I tend toward pragmatism and if this design is more functional than other designs, it moves right to the top of the list. The designs of the America's Cup boats over the decades are a good example of this. I would have no problem selecting this idea. Every design can be made to look nice as a boat with what ever features you decide are necessary. Like Rob said, it's all about how much you are willing to spend. Look how popular catamarans have become, straying from the very traditional monohulls for cruising.
My estimate of 50k per net ton for the 50 is.very close to that of mj sailing for their build. The major saving is in the lightness.
Sorry was ther an actual tour?
please do a walk through
I would definitely consider buying one that was made by a boat builder.
I wonder how putting most of the weight in the ama affect the speed, I thought that to be efficient you needed to put the weight in the longest hull.
Very intrigued with this idea, but a DIY build isn't possible for me, so I wonder what it would cost to have someone build it for me. A comparison of this scenario to an Outremer or Rapido would be more realistic since those aren't DIY builds either.
In Thailand the average wage will be about usd3 per hour. The total labor cost would be 10 to.12k usd. Need to add in yard rental, tools and profit.
@@herbdesson6843 I don't live in Thailand. My largest concern would be the cost of actual building materials.
Rob estimates the materials as 50k usd, but that excludes sails, winches, electrinocs etc. For a 60 double everything.
Ballotta in Peru are doing a good job on the C60 and may have some prices. Prepandemic, they were saying 'in the vicinity" of $US half a million for a cruise ready boat.
Composite materials costs are all over the place at the moment, but if you buy from China, the C60 materials will be about $US60,000, the C50, about 30. This will get you the materials and consumables to build the hulls, beams, masts, rudders and furniture. 2-3 times as much in Aus, a little more in US and more again in Europe. The build time to this stage is about 2,500 hours and 2,000 hours, subject to a lot of variables How much you spend after that depends on the level of finish and fit out you require, which is very much a length of a piece of string question.
Paying a yard to build a one off is almost always an exercise in frustration. It costs them a few days work to quote accurately, which few owners are prepared to pay for, so they make a best guess. Then tend to quote low to get the job, then part way through offer the option of paying more or having the job stopped. OR, they do the hard yards on the quote, but feel compelled to add a contingency for any unknowns. The exercise is further complicated by owners who expect any changes they make to be included in the original price. The solution is a materials plus labour plus overheads approach, but most yards add a percentage to the materials and the owner is paying for all the non productive overheads and the profit margin.
The modularity of Harryproas can simplify this. You pay for a quote for a single component (tender, hull, beam, mast, whatever) which, if acceptable, you get them to build. Once built, you discuss the accuracy of the quote, the timing and the level of finish. The process is then repeated, much more accurately, for the next component. This gives you some control over the process and reduces the builder's variables. You can also use it to compare various yards beyond their quotes.
A lower cost option is for the owner to run the build, removing the builder's profit margin, contingency/warranty costs and non productive overheads from the equation. You hire the shed, buy the materials and employ the boatbuilder(s). You, your family and friends can help with the build. You have control over cost and quality so there are no warranty issues on the build side and you know everything that is in the boat and who to contact at the equipment suppliers for warranty issues. I am happy to help with any of this.
@@harryproa Very wise words.
Saludos amigos desde Tijuana baja California México
I am sure I have seen one of these moored at Hobsons Bay in Port Phillip Bay Melbourne Australia
The two million dollar boat is fitted with a 75hp Yanmar with a sophisticated fuel polishing system and gen set with lithium ion battery bank along with a state of the art nav package.
The two million dollar boat .............needs ...............a 75hp Yanmar with a sophisticated fuel polishing system and gen set with lithium ion battery bank along with a state of the art nav package. The half million dollar boat doesn't because it is primarily a sail boat so gets by with a 25 hp petrol, diesel or electric outboard and a retractable electric drive next to the helmsman for getting into tight spaces.
It's great to see boats that stray from the norm... Why does everything have to be a white bermudan sloop?? I'm a monohull fan but would love to have a go on one of these, looks much better than the massive caravans with twigs of the current fasion for cruising multihulls
When you discus price, i assume its the haul. How much are the finishes? Rigs? Can you have a discussion about that?
There is about $50,000 worth of materials in the C60 hulls, beams, masts, tender and rudders. Sails are about $20,000. There is no standing rigging, very little deck gear, one outboard rather than 2 smelly, noisy, expensive diesels, sail drives, tanks and paraphernalia. The rudders are mounted on the hulls and work as anti leeway devices, so no daggerboards or cases. There is ~2,000 hours of labour, plus fitout and finish at the owner's discretion. Almost all the components are included in the infusions to minimise post infusion wet work. There is far less fairing and sanding than conventional builds as the low cost moulds are inherently fair. Installing furniture is simple. Ballotta in Peru are building the first C60, price is near enough half a million dollars, ready to cruise. The next one will be less.
@@harryproa thanks, looks great. please update about the c60 thats being built......
So glad to see that you found Rob. You have been looking for light, fast, affordable ocean cruisers -well Rob is the real deal!
I really love these boats. They just make an incredible amount of sense from first principles thinking. Regarding the real estate they take up, it would be trivial to design the leeward hull bows to flip up and reduce the leeward length to be in line with the windward hull. Which, in the C60’s case, means that it would sit in a marina taking up less space than an Outremer 45. And beat the crap out of the Outremer in terms of cost, speed, and safety. I love that it also comes with a huge tender integrated into the design. It’s brilliant.
Thank you so much for giving these boats attention on your channel
A rather good idea, am sure one of the earlier designs had such a feature.
flipping a bow was done already once in a harry proa inspired boat but rather for ease of trailering as seen from 4:00 on in th-cam.com/video/6xVNGXqGPtE/w-d-xo.html
@@TariqKhan-77 Yes it is called Jackknife and is recently for sale in NZ. It’s even easier to do with the current design because the hulls are designed without compound curves
If this boat was built to the same quality (Materials) as an Outremer and in France with the same technique, it would be marginally cheaper. How do you quantify it would quicker and safer...? Also consider it's not a good comparison other than they both sail.
One thing is proven, The Outremer will hold good resale and these has proven not to ...
damnit now I want to build a boat agian
Hi web site is down
Having sailed a Rapido 60 I do not think that the comparison is fair. Alle the Rapidos are full carbon with expensive building methods. I love the concept of the Harry Proa. It is perfect for wide oceans and anchoring, but probably ill-fitted to congested ports in the Med. Most people are not willing to run a project but look for a sail-away solution. Resale will be selective but should be possible since the buyer gets a lot of boat for the buck. I hope to see the Harry Proa soon on the water!
I like it and I want one if I could …..
I stumbled upon this knowledge decades ago.. This is definitely an alternative.. I remembered that they were best suited for the pacific?
The proas with the small hull to windward are called Pacific proas as opposed to the small hull to leeward which are called Atlantic proas. They are named for where they were created, not what they are capable of sailing on.
@@Blink-Ensu Right, I believe that's what I read. The Pacific Proa works best in the Pacific and Atlantic... Makes sense what you explained.
I'm actually building a 45ft aluminium proa. I had a yt channel in the past but gave up on it. I might do some streaming or make a post on reddit or so.
Would love to see this
I watched all of your build videos when they were available, I would be happy to see any updates.
Been waiting for an update on your upsized Chesapeake Light Craft design aluminium proa. Eagerly awaiting. Please share.
Ask these good folks if they would like to host a special feature. 🤷🏻♂️⛵
Did you publish any videos of it? I would love to see (you'll get a sub from me 😉)
How did Clean Breeze get ran over or ran into container ship??
It is for sale =MESS for 55K$
I contacted Rob Denney. I think I’m going to build one. Are you in the South Florida area? I’d like to chat about it with you.
I forgot about these.
Love Harry's out of the box thinking. My only reservation is (given my lack of sailing experience); no engine! I'd have to get a lot of miles under my belt to sail that confidently. But think of all the room for solar! Would love to see a design with an electric engine maybe an outboard type.
They usually do have an outboard, it's just not required, from what i've read a 40' harry usually uses a single 9.9hp outboard, which seems about right, they have narrow hulls and aren't heavy so not much power is needed.
The interview didn't discuss how the Harrys are powered, but the website shows three designs where the tender powers the proa. Very innovative.
There is no such thing as an "Electric Engine" Engines have internal combustion and electric "MOTORS" do not. All rotating electric power / propulsion devices are motors not engines. I like the Coconut oil fueled Diesel engine idea. You could conceivably use fish oil or other as well. It would be great to have an engine with two driveshafts for propellers in either direction... as this boat has two bows... and goes in both directions.
I want one
👍👍👍😬
I spoke to him a while back via email. I really love the design of these boats. Very sleek and modern looking and everything else about as far as functionality goes is just incredible.
Is it just me but windmill catamaran looks like wildings sailing boat