That is very informative, helpful. I am a operations manager for a mechanical engineering company. I just had this mag valve assembly installed with a valuable client. Utilizing these methods of measuring is critical to any system that transfers abrasive liquid materials.
About to install a big 12'' magnetic flow meter on a river water intake that will communicate over Ethernet/IP, this video is a good refresher on the working principles behind the meter.
This is fantastic information. There are so many different flow meter technologies. It would be GREAT to see a video on the various different kinds. Especially those used for gas, since the natural gas industry is growing so fast and expanding into other areas where gas extraction is becoming economical - like landfills and manure digesters.
I was working in cable plant. And i saw this flowmeter in petroleum Jelly pipe line. As a filling material in cable tube, It is a big support by realpars to grow up in Automation field
What math formula do you use to calculate the flow rate in GPM if emf is known? How do you figure out the values of K,B,V, and D to get the EMF in Faraday's Law ?
Hello, @noname-g8e, and thank you for your question! If you’re studying electrical engineering, you’ll likely encounter these topics as part of your education. In our video, we’ve simplified these concepts to make them easier to understand. For detailed information about K, B, V, and D, we recommend referring to the user manual of your flow meter device, which provides comprehensive answers and practical applications for their features. To help you get started, here’s some additional information on Faraday’s law of induction: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday%27s_law_of_induction
Can you explain how Faraday's law can lead to that formula at 04:12? I know it as E = -dΦ/dt, and if I understood it properly, the magnetic field B = Φ/A is held constant, and hence E would be zero. What am I missing?
So I was tasked to figure out why the flowmeters in the paint mix room at Spring Hill, all of the meters (47 of them!) showed "Empty Pipe?". Turns out that you need your material (in this case, paint and solvent) to be conductive. Ours wasn't. And the previous guy had them all installed without checking conductivity, so, darn. One of the characteristics of a Mag meter or "Wafer Mag" as they are also known, is that they don't have the same requirements as just about every other flowmeter out there in that they don't need the 10x entrance and the 5x exit of straight pipe to settle the flow down to make accurate measurements. This rule means that the pipe leading up to the meter needs to have 10 times the pipe diameter in straight pipe entering into the flowmeter, and 5 times the diameter of the flowmeter in straight pipe exiting the flowmeter. So for a 2" meter you would need 20" leading up to the flowmeter, and 10" exiting the meter (these values are considered as a bare minimum, for complex bends you will need to increase these distances). This is all application specific stuff from here on out. We didn't have the space, the budget, or time, for redesigning the piping so the flowmeters were pretty inaccurate. Which because of our application was just fine since we really needed to know when things were circulating. The main thing was not introducing "dirt" (or gunk) into the paint that would go on to cause problems with the robots or the product itself. The thermal meters were excellent for this since the interior of the meter is nothing more than a smooth piece of pipe. The old meters had to be hot cleaned with a caustic solution from time to time. These meters certainly did not add to the problem. One of the other things that you want to avoid when circulating paint is to reduce the amount of "shear" which degrades the paint leading to a poor paint job. Since the meter was just another piece of pipe in the system, the new meters did not add anything to increase the amount of shear already in the system. They probably had a tiny bit better flow than the Wafer Mags, but it couldn't have been by much. But compared to almost all of the rest of the meters out there, they were vastly superior.
Great video I want to understand something about the mag meter : our mag meter is always going on and off when the fluid is passing the pipe. What can be the problem
The accepted wiring method for all transmitter types is to use a shielded twisted pair cable, with the shield grounded only at one end, usually at the PLC or DCS I/O cabinet.
Thank you for reaching out with your question. The resolution might vary based on the installation method and setup. I recommend reviewing the installation manual and engineering design specifications for guidance. Alternatively, reaching out to your vendor can provide specific insights into potential issues. Wishing you successful troubleshooting and learning from RealPars!
As far as I know those flow meters actually use coils instead of permanent magnets, because coils make it possible to reverse magnetic field which helps to avoid electrolysis on the electrodes
The fluid needs to have a conductivity of greater than 10 us/cm. Distilled or purified water have conductivities less than 10 us/cm. Therefore, a magnetic flow meter is not suitable for these fluids. Tap water typically has greater than 10 us/cm conductivity and can be measured by a magnetic flow meter. Wehn in doubt, look up the conductivity of your liquid stream using an internet search or ask your magnetic flow meter vendor for the data.
Hi Samuel, thank you for your question! In many industries, some sensors are designed to measure fluids without ever coming into contact with them, as they are placed outside the tube. If you're interested in learning more about how these sensors work and their applications, please check out the link provided www.omega.com/en-us/ Additionally, there are numerous vendors offering these types of sensors. For more in-depth information, you can sign up for our platform to explore more about sensors. Happy learning!
Thanks for your comment, and topic suggestion! I will go ahead and forward this to our course developers, hopefully we can create a course lesson answering that.
If the conductivity is to low you can't measure anything with it. The modern magmeters can achieve measurements in liquids as low as 1 to 5 uS/cm with certain limitations. If it is really low and you need high accuracy than your best option is coriolis mass flow. Otherwise you can also use vortex or ultrasonic flowmeters in liquids with low conductivity.
Just about any of the rest. De-Mineralized water shouldn't present any problems with the material that the flowmeter is made of (unlike DI water). Without knowing your application, I can say that ultrasonic is not a good choice, too finicky in my opinion. And some that should be okay - depending: Thermal meters also present no obstructions, so it makes a good choice for media such as paints that tend to "gunk up" inside the pipe. Coriolis is great, but expensive. Positive displacement is an option, but will wear over time, making them eventually inaccurate. Differential Pressure is the "normal" choice, and would probably work fine for you. Vortex should be fine. There are other options out there, this is just off of the top of my head. The bottom line is that without knowing your application (so what's your Reynolds number anyway?), it is impossible to give you a definitive answer. So contact a flowmeter specialist and have them take a look at your application.
Mr Waalkman gave a good response to this question. I find that vortex flow meters give a good balance of performance, ease of installation, almost zero maintenance, and applicable over a broad range of Reynolds numbers.
Tap water or process water contains minerals and other dissolved solids that are conductive. We just need a fluid with a minimum conductivity in order to use a magnetic flow meter effectively.
Hi @OfirAviv1994. Thank you for your question. The flow meter must be powered by an external device like a power supply. Its electronics sense the signals, convert them to 4-20ma DC volts, and send them to a controller like a PLC or other controller board for monitoring or automation.
When selecting a flow meter for installation in a hazardous area, you need to ensure that the meter is approved for operation in the specific classification of installation. This may affect which manufacturer/model number you use and the method of installation, including wiring. And yes, there are magnetic flowmeters which are rated for installation in electrically classified areas.
That is very informative, helpful. I am a operations manager for a mechanical engineering company. I just had this mag valve assembly installed with a valuable client. Utilizing these methods of measuring is critical to any system that transfers abrasive liquid materials.
Thanks fo ryour support, Jerome! We are happy to hear that.
definitely very important theoretical insight
About to install a big 12'' magnetic flow meter on a river water intake that will communicate over Ethernet/IP, this video is a good refresher on the working principles behind the meter.
Glad to hear that!
This is fantastic information. There are so many different flow meter technologies. It would be GREAT to see a video on the various different kinds. Especially those used for gas, since the natural gas industry is growing so fast and expanding into other areas where gas extraction is becoming economical - like landfills and manure digesters.
Thanks for your support, Dave! I will happily forward your suggestion to our course developers.
Thanks again for sharing and happy learning!
@@realpars Need to design Electro magnetic flow I need some support
Can I calibrate using a prover tank
I was working in cable plant. And i saw this flowmeter in petroleum Jelly pipe line. As a filling material in cable tube,
It is a big support by realpars to grow up in Automation field
Great Graphics for the video
Glad you like them!
Thank you very much for this very informative video.
Glad it was helpful!
Amazing explanation of magnetic flow meter...very helpful
Thank you so much, we're happy to hear that!
I enjoyed this video, so helpful
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent 💯💯💯 realpars
Thank you, Kiran!
What math formula do you use to calculate the flow rate in GPM if emf is known? How do you figure out the values of K,B,V, and D to get the EMF in Faraday's Law ?
Hello, @noname-g8e, and thank you for your question! If you’re studying electrical engineering, you’ll likely encounter these topics as part of your education. In our video, we’ve simplified these concepts to make them easier to understand. For detailed information about K, B, V, and D, we recommend referring to the user manual of your flow meter device, which provides comprehensive answers and practical applications for their features.
To help you get started, here’s some additional information on Faraday’s law of induction: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday%27s_law_of_induction
Can you explain how Faraday's law can lead to that formula at 04:12? I know it as E = -dΦ/dt, and if I understood it properly, the magnetic field B = Φ/A is held constant, and hence E would be zero. What am I missing?
Nevermind. I managed to see the light. Hehehe
Glad to hear that, Roberto! Happy learning
So I was tasked to figure out why the flowmeters in the paint mix room at Spring Hill, all of the meters (47 of them!) showed "Empty Pipe?". Turns out that you need your material (in this case, paint and solvent) to be conductive. Ours wasn't.
And the previous guy had them all installed without checking conductivity, so, darn.
One of the characteristics of a Mag meter or "Wafer Mag" as they are also known, is that they don't have the same requirements as just about every other flowmeter out there in that they don't need the 10x entrance and the 5x exit of straight pipe to settle the flow down to make accurate measurements. This rule means that the pipe leading up to the meter needs to have 10 times the pipe diameter in straight pipe entering into the flowmeter, and 5 times the diameter of the flowmeter in straight pipe exiting the flowmeter. So for a 2" meter you would need 20" leading up to the flowmeter, and 10" exiting the meter (these values are considered as a bare minimum, for complex bends you will need to increase these distances).
This is all application specific stuff from here on out.
We didn't have the space, the budget, or time, for redesigning the piping so the flowmeters were pretty inaccurate. Which because of our application was just fine since we really needed to know when things were circulating. The main thing was not introducing "dirt" (or gunk) into the paint that would go on to cause problems with the robots or the product itself. The thermal meters were excellent for this since the interior of the meter is nothing more than a smooth piece of pipe. The old meters had to be hot cleaned with a caustic solution from time to time. These meters certainly did not add to the problem.
One of the other things that you want to avoid when circulating paint is to reduce the amount of "shear" which degrades the paint leading to a poor paint job. Since the meter was just another piece of pipe in the system, the new meters did not add anything to increase the amount of shear already in the system. They probably had a tiny bit better flow than the Wafer Mags, but it couldn't have been by much. But compared to almost all of the rest of the meters out there, they were vastly superior.
Thanks for the video, its very helpful
Glad to hear that! You're very welcome
Thank you sir. Great video.
Glad it was helpful!
Good 👍
Thank you!
Could you show the difference if Inlet and outlet diameters are different. What would change. Thank you.
I very like this video my friend
Thank you very much!
Great video
I want to understand something about the mag meter : our mag meter is always going on and off when the fluid is passing the pipe. What can be the problem
You can try testing the sensors by manual sensor test just to make sure the sensors are working properly.
Love you guys and I love magnets
Nice job. well done.
Thank you very much, Mahdi!
👏👏👍from Kazakhstan
Magmeters usually do not use permanent magnets but rather use a coil to generate a alternating magnetic field.
Being involved with mags for over 40 years I've never seen one with permanent magnets
Good video... Why pressure transmitters are grounded but Temperature transmitter are not grounded?
Thanks.
The accepted wiring method for all transmitter types is to use a shielded twisted pair cable, with the shield grounded only at one end, usually at the PLC or DCS I/O cabinet.
@@realpars Thanks for your kind clarification.... Keep it up...
Hi what can cause the Totalizer to reverse?
Thank you for reaching out with your question. The resolution might vary based on the installation method and setup. I recommend reviewing the installation manual and engineering design specifications for guidance. Alternatively, reaching out to your vendor can provide specific insights into potential issues. Wishing you successful troubleshooting and learning from RealPars!
Can I calibrate these using a prover tank if so please tell me how
Can i calibrate an ele tromagnetic floe meter using a prover tank
As far as I know those flow meters actually use coils instead of permanent magnets, because coils make it possible to reverse magnetic field which helps to avoid electrolysis on the electrodes
Can this measure water flow or does a fluid needs to be ferromagnetic?
The fluid needs to have a conductivity of greater than 10 us/cm. Distilled or purified water have conductivities less than 10 us/cm. Therefore, a magnetic flow meter is not suitable for these fluids. Tap water typically has greater than 10 us/cm conductivity and can be measured by a magnetic flow meter. Wehn in doubt, look up the conductivity of your liquid stream using an internet search or ask your magnetic flow meter vendor for the data.
Superb
Thank you very much!
Dont the electrodes need to be in direct contact with the flowing conductive fluid? How do you protect the electrodes from corrosion?
Hi Samuel, thank you for your question! In many industries, some sensors are designed to measure fluids without ever coming into contact with them, as they are placed outside the tube. If you're interested in learning more about how these sensors work and their applications, please check out the link provided www.omega.com/en-us/
Additionally, there are numerous vendors offering these types of sensors. For more in-depth information, you can sign up for our platform to explore more about sensors.
Happy learning!
Is this suitable for metal pipe?
Yes, metal pipe is preferred for the installation of magnetic flowmeters.
What is the difference between DP transmitter and flowmeter?
Thanks for your comment, and topic suggestion! I will go ahead and forward this to our course developers, hopefully we can create a course lesson answering that.
I definitely like magmeters over paddle wheel sensors. I never knew that they were dependent on conductivity of the fluid, so thanks for that info.
If the conductivity is to low you can't measure anything with it. The modern magmeters can achieve measurements in liquids as low as 1 to 5 uS/cm with certain limitations.
If it is really low and you need high accuracy than your best option is coriolis mass flow. Otherwise you can also use vortex or ultrasonic flowmeters in liquids with low conductivity.
👍great~~
Thank you!
Excellent video.... What type of flowmeter to be used for DM water or fluids with less than 10 us/cm conductivity?
Thanks.
Just about any of the rest. De-Mineralized water shouldn't present any problems with the material that the flowmeter is made of (unlike DI water). Without knowing your application, I can say that ultrasonic is not a good choice, too finicky in my opinion.
And some that should be okay - depending:
Thermal meters also present no obstructions, so it makes a good choice for media such as paints that tend to "gunk up" inside the pipe.
Coriolis is great, but expensive.
Positive displacement is an option, but will wear over time, making them eventually inaccurate.
Differential Pressure is the "normal" choice, and would probably work fine for you.
Vortex should be fine.
There are other options out there, this is just off of the top of my head.
The bottom line is that without knowing your application (so what's your Reynolds number anyway?), it is impossible to give you a definitive answer. So contact a flowmeter specialist and have them take a look at your application.
Mr Waalkman gave a good response to this question. I find that vortex flow meters give a good balance of performance, ease of installation, almost zero maintenance, and applicable over a broad range of Reynolds numbers.
@@MrWaalkman Thanks for your such a detailed response.... Appreciate!
@@cck0728 You're welcome. :)
Best video
Thank you!
굿
Good
GOOD
How can water be the conductor ?
We need ferromagnetic conductor
Tap water or process water contains minerals and other dissolved solids that are conductive. We just need a fluid with a minimum conductivity in order to use a magnetic flow meter effectively.
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❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
🙏🌹🌹🌹
How it generates DC? should be AC.
Hi @OfirAviv1994. Thank you for your question. The flow meter must be powered by an external device like a power supply. Its electronics sense the signals, convert them to 4-20ma DC volts, and send them to a controller like a PLC or other controller board for monitoring or automation.
Could that be also a solution for Ex-Areas?
sure . there are magmeters also for EX areas
When selecting a flow meter for installation in a hazardous area, you need to ensure that the meter is approved for operation in the specific classification of installation. This may affect which manufacturer/model number you use and the method of installation, including wiring. And yes, there are magnetic flowmeters which are rated for installation in electrically classified areas.