Wario is definitely the more relatable character. I haven't rescued many princesses nor gone down a sewer pipe, but I have picked my nose more often than I have crushed an apple in my hand.
I personally say there is a third pill, the sonic pill. It takes the moment physics of the character and the level design is built around it, but to a crazy extreme where you can use the level to move instead of moving in the level.
My absolute favorite parts is how he talks about how disgusting wario is to him from what he dose to even having the strongest hands to use them to pick his nose lol
Some of us like slower platformers. I've never been able to get into Sonic because it's just too damn fast and my brain and hands can't keep up with it. That's why I love Mario games. They're fun and generally aren't so fast that I get confused.
And some of us like faster platformers. Sonic is pretty dang fun if you are able to have good reflex and adapt to changes within the game. Diversion is what makes society unique, but I wish people understood that since we always either agree or disagree on something due to opinions :/
@@justa_user the problem is not reflex but you need to learn the stage at heart to get the full potential (just like dkc). It's fine for a race game but for me it's a bother in platforms games. I prefer skill and decision over learning.
I think we should address the other side of the Mario coin. While Donkey Kong Country uses the Mario pill due to the nature of jumping and being put into dangers even more dangerous than what's in Mario games, Donkey Kong Country also innovates on it. It gives you barrel cannons to time those blasts and gives you animal buddies that can change up the gameplay entirely! What feels like a water level at one point transforms into a moment where you ride Enguarde the Swordfish and can beat up enemies with ease. Like having the fire flower and the frog suit in one go! Everything that Mario does, Donkey Kong either learns from it or innovates upon it to make it better. And sometimes Mario follows on that. The bone dragon rollercoaster in NSMBU was probably heavily inspired by the mine cart stages of DKC
I absolutely adore DKC I recently replayed the original triology and I totally agree with you! DKC takes the Mario pill and then grabs spesific elements from Wario to make a better experience. Couple that with levels that are literally oozing with charm and you have one of the most consistent platforming series ever made
I usually despise gross out humor or generally disgusting looking characters, but there's something about the way Wario does it that makes his rat bastard energy infinitely charming.
normal celeste is mostly mario pill, with wario pills added over time from player skill meanwhile, modded celeste dumps in bottles of wario pills (from physics changes) and mario pills (grand master level design), and now madeline goes nyoom even faster and easier, just to barely beat the map
The thing with Sonic, is that it's *neither* Mario nor Wario, because: - Mario is a character with simple to learn controls, with the levels being increasingly complicated to make up for it. - Wario sports hard to learn controls that take a while to master, so the scenarios are much more simple to balance it out. And... Sonic, while having simple controls like a Mario, has movement hard to fully master like a Wario. The levels are complicated as in Mario, but due to the character's skills they're very replayable as in Wario. There's also the fact that Sonic is neither punished by a set amount of hits, and neither he's immortal or impervious to damage. While the only consequence to getting hit usually is having to chase the ring you lost, or either it or you falling off a platform if you're unlucky enough... besides that, there's no much consequence besides it being a mild annoyance... however, the game encourages you to avoid cheesing the Ring System to get through enemies, by not only adding them to your score, but also rewarding the player for keeping a hold of them... The ring system is rather unique to Sonic. You would be half wrong by calling Sonic-inspired games "Mario-Likes" or "Wario-Likes", that's why they're called "Sonic-Likes" in the realm of 2D action platformers.
I think this is fair enough however I'd still argue for Sonic to fall under the Mario category. In my experience Sonic has less of a learning curve than Wario. It's very intuitive with max speed being able to be obtained with a spin dash or just rolling down a slope. What makes it hard to maintain speed is the Mario level design it has. I will give you though that the damage system is very Wario-like with both series encouraging moving forward instead of being careful
I think there’s something to be said about the replay ability of sonics stages that make his games more wario like when replaying them and trying to get a faster time. The way i see it wario level design is made to make the player think “whats the right move to use here” “whats the proper way to get past this obstacle” instead of a mario game where the answer is clear but all the focus is put on the execution. I think sonics design also promotes thinking like “whats the best way to beat this level fast” “what route should i pick” which is in line with my idea of a wario pilled game but this is only when replaying levels trying to beat them faster, on a first play through the game is much more Mario like
The Ring system was made as a preventitive measure because of Sonic's focus on running fast through the screen and being like a Mario that has the run button on at all times with even more momentum (yes speed did matter on some level to Sonic since the beginning, just look at Sonic Teams interviews on programming the original game) and that had the inevitable problem of running into enemies a lot hence that system got made beforehand to the problem and him rolling in his jump too. Because of that though racking up score as a reward was then implemented since Sega were still big on arcadey style of gameplay in wanting you to replay the levels over and over again with more skill and the fun that comes from that.
I have a question, is regular 3D Sonic just Crash-like? Those are linear levels those feel like 3d versions of a 2d Mario level but with many deviations, but still linear since the goal is the same.
Wait, so the 3d Mario games are actually Wario games? I mean, take Odyssey for example, it has a very versatile pool of moves Mario can do, and they can all be combined into crazy combinations if the player is skilled enough, and all of the worlds have gimmicks (in this case captures), that are almost always exclusive to that world.
I'd say 3D Mario with each entry goes further and further in the Wario direction. 64, Galaxy 1 + 2 I'd say are more Mario games while sunshine and Odyssey go in the Wario direction
Odyssey had to hard-cap (pun intended) the number of Cappy jumps you can do, because if they didn't, you would be able to go _literally anywhere, anytime_
"When playing for the first time, Celeste feels more like a Mario game. When replaying it, you get a pinch of Wario" Meanwhile, the gameplay show for "Wario" Celeste is a TAS that goes at light speed and goes through dust bunnies/spikes bc demo dash
Oh good I feel better knowing it’s a TAS. I played way too much Celeste back in the day and knew all the movement tech - but those clips made me feel like maybe I was playing on assist mode or something
It would be nice to have this distinction as a widespread design idea. At the very least, having the features of Wario Land games be recognized beyond the rather broad "Metroidvania" term. Which is mentioned in this thematically similar video that focuses on the 'Wario Pill' side of things, specifically Wario Land 3: _Wario Land 3: The Best Nintendo Game_ by *hotcyder* th-cam.com/video/RGOJkAVkGMo/w-d-xo.html
You know, when you think about it, it’s actually kind of poetic when the wario-likes comes after the Mario the likes (ex: Celeste), like in the good old days when Nintendo made wario games after super Mario land 2.
Super Mario Oddesy does a similar thing as Celest where it feels like a Mario pill for most of the game, but once you figure out how to cap jump you can breeze through every level that you struggled with before.
@@ssg-eggunner Not only that, but an entire theme park the size of a country, which he abandons. Wario (who is homeless at this point in the lore) finds out the castle is empty and abandoned, and takes refuge there. When Mario finds out about this, he comes back from his holiday early just to personally evict Wario, and leave the theme park to be abandoned again.
Pizza Tower took mostly everything from Wario 4 and mirror polished it. Speed and momentum actually feels scarily fast and needs some half good reaction speed, moves cancel into each other for fluid and dynamic movement, grabs can use to start momentum or climb walls, combo chains.
2D Mario has extremely simplistic movement but 3D Mario has a ton of complexity in its movement allowing you to all sorts of crazy moves and skips which i always found very interesting.
I'm so glad people are noticing this excellent creation known as pizza tower. and I'm also glad people are taking interesting platformers and revisiting them and adding their own touch to perfect it. now all I need is a reimagining of ristar and my life is complete
I really like the description you give for each pill and it legit feels as if all platforms fall onto a spectrum and these pills are the extremes on each end.
Mario: Woah! How'd ya get here? Better use those moves you learned! Wario: Hah! You gotta get outta some crumbling tower! Good thing you got no idea what to do! Celeste: You do de oingy boingy bouncey wouncey! Pizza tower: *By the time we're done, yo fingies gonna be mashed taters cuz you gonna recreate Bethoven's 9th f***in symphony, u n d e r s a n d ?*
Crash: Micromanage your position on these platforms to escape the tower. Yoshi’s Island SNES-like: Throw an egg to activate a thing that will help you escape the tower (and possibly fight a raven on the moon) Yoshi’s Story-likes: Collect these things to unlock harder levels of the tower so you can escape the tower in a different area!
I actually thought they differentiate because of their production style. Mario being more focussed on clean design and platforming, Wario being more about creativity, exploring ideas and wacky storytelling
So we have the Mario Pill, a simple move set in a more difficult setting. Also the Wario Pill, a more complex move set with simpler/easier levels. But we also have the Sonic Pill, has the simple move set of the Mario Pill but more momentum based stuff. Maybe even the mentioned Scrooge McDuck Pill, which is also a sort of Mario Pill Variation. Simple move set but has a more ‘bouncy’ feel. Scrooge and Shovel Knight have a main move which involves constantly bouncing across the levels.
I literally just rewatched the Matrix last night. Also shout out to Pizza Tower. My bro and I have supported the Patreon since the sage demo. Basically Wario action with Sonic flow. Please check it out. Also, you can uppercut by holding up and pressing attack. Video didn't show or mention that.
I like the Steam review that says Pizza Tower is based and Wario pilled, but specifically that one Wario pill seized by Japanese authorities with the near-lethal dose of MDMA.
I prefer my platformers to have some linearity in them, but not too much to the point that they keep dragging on with no secrets or anything to look forward to.
Celeste does that pretty well. Hidden optional strawberry collectibles and cassettes that unlock _COMPLETELY NEW LEVELS,_ along with the big one-per-level Crystal Heart collectibles
I’d say pizza tower has a great balance, each world lets you choose what level to play first but you will most likely end up playing all of them anyways. Plus the only necessary “secret” are the toppins which are hardly secret and are very easy to get, but still possible to miss so it encourages exploration. Every other secret/achievement is completely optional so you can experience most of the game’s surprises in a casual play through. Really I just believe Pizza tower has no flaws at all lol.
Metroid i guess is a mix as well. Its level design is an absolute maze requiring memorization of puzzles, locations, and dangers, while also getting progressively harder to deal with(Mario Pill) as you also get progressively more difficult to defeat yourself (Wario Pill). It also plays similar functions with Celeste. Once you begin using the wall jump, shinesparks, and other hidden tricks in Samus' arsenal, you always make sure to use it again in the future.
My favorite platformer: Monster boy and the Cursed Kingdom takes both pills, at the start you only have some simple mechanics, an armor system and weapons, but later you gain a whole lot more abilities, the level design goes from forgiving to painful to go with your more abilities, its hard to keep track of what you can and can't do later on and that's why i love it, the armors and weapons also help with this while bringing another layer on the already giant masterpiece of strategy, getting chests with more lives and money becomes hard even for the most skilled players, it may just look like a Mario pill but it also has a ton of elements of the Wario pill
i think the main reason why i can never play any platformer besides celeste is because of how satisfying celestes controls are and how much control you have in it, now i cant get used to literally anything else
Celeste-pilled should be another subcategory where you have jump plus one other significant move, and the point of the game is that it is explorable and hard to navigate (like a Mario game) but you can master it and rush through it if you are good (like a Wario game). In this subcategory, Yoshi’s Island SNES and Yoshi’s Woolly World would count as Celeste-likes
Mario.- Redpill, is simple movement in progressively complex level designs. Wario.- Purplepill, complex moveset in seemingly simple level designs so you can figure out what you have to do. Sonic.- Bluepill, physics based moveset in a complex level design with multiple paths you can take to reach the end. Kirby.- Pinkpill, simple moveset and simple level design, which you can expand at any time with a power up. Banjo-Kazooie.- Brownpill, moveset is complex but easy to control and is in open ended level designs (or "open zones") you can explore at your own pace without having to worry about doing everything.
Sure! I’d say games like super meat boy, most shovel knight campaigns, crash bandicoot and Megaman classic are Mario pilled. Wario pilled games include Kirby, and most Metroidvanias
Would Banjo-Kazooie count as being Wario-like or Mario-like? Tooie seems very Wario like especially since you never stop with transformations and “modes of movement” and “actions” until the very end.
Have you guys picked up Pizza Tower yet cause that's all I've been playing since it's came out. If you're new don't forget to like and subcribe! Thanks for 2.5k once again!
The yoshi pill flies in the face of both of these philosophies and says, "if you're willing to do the painstaking work of designing around it, you can give your player the absolute jankiest movement option and they'll love it"
I haven't played it, but everytime I see Pizza Tower my soul just fills with joy from how delightfully oozing with bombastic character each and every frame is.
I feel like games like Celeste take "1 mechanic" to a whole new level, and not in a good way. The whole game revolves around that single mechanic, and the whole thing ends up feeling hollow as though it were just a long series of test runs for a mechanic that was meant to be dropped into a more complete game. It's like the devs had that "one idea" and instead of trying to implement that into a bigger picture, they made it the entire picture.
I watched this video a while ago and what’s crazy is I realized - despite the relaxing tone, Kirby games are 100% Wario pilled. (Or maybe Wario is Kirby pilled given the timeline).
and then you have single control platformers that have just the craziest results (something like a geometry dash pill for example) and relies entirely on level design
But what about platformers that go in & out of 2D & 3D like Crush or Super Paper Mario, or 2.5D platformers like Yoshi's Story or Kirby & the Crystal Shards? Do they fall into a category too?
i know its not 2d but,, what would a game like sm64 fall into ? i dont think it fits into either pill,, ur movement never changes but its decently complex with many moves and a high skill ceiling the levels are pretty simple but feel fun because theyre playgrounds for mario to move around in moreso than obstacle courses
3D Mario gets closer and closer to Wario with each passing game it feels but I'd say 64 is solidly a Mario game. The moves themselves don't feel super complex or fast but you're right it has a super high skill ceiling which makes it have tons of replayability
I just remembered Levelhead. Levelhead trys to be mario (mario maker specifically) with the twist of carrying the key to the exit. Thing is, this key is a box. You can throw it, stand on it, and fall through it. You run just by moving for a while in one direction. There are powerups. The enemies are too niche to be compared to mario It's just mario on drugs
Are you sure all platformers take these two pills. There are lots of platformers out there that don't follow the rules of either Mario or Wario. I don't wanna think I'm automatically designing a game after Mario or Wario when maybe instead I'd be designing it after Rayman or Klonoa instead. But I do love Wario and I'm planning a series of three platformers called Norman Penguin. Norman Penguin has a moveset similar to Wario's but it not coming from Wario Land 4 like Pizza Tower. Here is the inspiration for each game. Norman Penguin - Wario Land Shake It Norman Penguin 2 - Rayman Origins Norman Penguin 3 - Wario World
This is an interesting way of looking at the difference between level complexity and character complexity. Incidentally, you could stretch this idea to apply to other facets of game design too, like combat. In an adventure game like Legend of Zelda, Link starts off with a pretty _basic_ kit, just a few different types of slash and a block. The equipment you find can add to this combat kit, granted, but it can just as well only serve to help you navigate the environment (Much like Mario power-ups). The main challenge factor of the game comes from navigating many different environments and having to face many different types of enemy throughout them. Contrast a spectacle brawler like Devil May Cry, suddenly _everything_ is about the combat; every new weapon you can get your hands on is a slew of new combat abilities the likes of which rival your average fighting game character. Enemies are more basic because the main challenge factor comes from stringing your insane move list together to create stylish combos. Basically, what I'm saying is Dante is Wario for edgy people.
Main reason of why Wario like games are such a blast it's because the characters in those game look ugly and disgusting, which gives them an unique look therefore turning them into memorable desing and esthethic overall.
To be fair, one snack that my mom sometimes has garlic in there, and I must say, if you’re ready to eat the garlic then the garlic feels alright if not however… I like garlic when im prepared for it lol
It makes me think how Sonic is some space north of Wario, favoring simple level design for easily built speed but has a somewhat varied moveset that alters direction quickly (stomp, homing attack) and is generally more focused on giving you that speed without the level getting in your way to force a higher skill ceiling. The older games had a stark contrast between these speed sections and slow and methodic platforming a la Mario. I feel like any game with any level of focus on movement could be classified on a XY graph with level simplicity and sense of top speed being the factors.
And then there's the Mega Man pill - that is to say, platformers that have challenging levels yet offer the player multiple means to tackle every scenario. Only example I can think of off the top of my head is Shovel Knight Treasure Trove, but I'm sure there're more out there like it.
@@DkViking1 Celeste was not intentionally designed to be as frustrating as possible. No matter how mad the game made you, it isnt a rage game. Its like saying Celeste is a porn game just because YOU think Theo is hot. Goofy!
Another option is the Sonic pill though: simple moves, with speed being the factor that introduces difficulty. Some of the games mentioned here make me think more of Sonic than Mario/Wario because of how fast they go.
While I understand and absolutely agree with both example games given, I said to myself at the beginning of the video that I _really_ hope that the only Wario-esque game he mentions is Pizza Tower lol. Nothing against Pizza Tower, it's a fantastic game, it's just that it's not only a brand new game, but it's also been deliberately made to _be_ an homage to the Wario world games. I would've liked to see more examples of each of these categories to better prove that "all 2D platformers" do this.
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming Nah, Peppino is way faster than Sonic (Whoa, this guy is faster than sonic) and has inhaled at minimum 3 times the amount of Coke.
You know... this video is very analytical in its evidence. I'm sure everyone would love a sequel to this video with 3D Platformers instead! How about "Mario 64 Pill" or the "Sonic Adventures Pill"? Would be quite interesting! What do you think?
and then you have shovel knight with the Scrooge McDuck pill
That pill is probably just pure gold which can’t possibly be good for you
Based and Scroogepilled.
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming i heard its mad expensive and makes you shit gold
Rain world out here with the prince of Persia pill.
That's probably why scrooge could shoot quarters from his mouth.
I still think about how Wario is immortal in his older games simply because he doesn’t feel like dying
Wario is literally built different
Rudy is the only thing in his game that can actually kill Wario.
Itallian literally too fat to die.
Bulit DISGUSTING, to stanky to DIE
So does he want to die in the newer games?
Wario is definitely the more relatable character. I haven't rescued many princesses nor gone down a sewer pipe, but I have picked my nose more often than I have crushed an apple in my hand.
HAHAHA ok fine fair enough
Wario is my spirit animal (not really but I wish he was)
@@S0m3B0z0OnTheInternet more like a spirit human
Wario is a sigma
You are just a loser
Stephen is that you?
I am SO glad pizza tower is getting the recognition it deserves
Pizza tower guy put his heart and soul into that fat anxiety induced Italian game
It deserves all the praise it gets and more, what a fantastic game
Lmao is the developer actually called pizza tower guy
That's the best thing istg
@@Starlightnova111 No, it's Tour de Pizza
@@user-vi4xy1jw7e he french?
So Wario and Madeline fucked in an Italian hotel to make Pizza Tower?
Pizza tower is one of the most games of all time
It is so much game
it's a game of this year
McPig should update the steam page and put the subtitle, "Game of the Year"
I got pizza tower off its drmos reprints and Steam!
Never let then know your next move, eat the yellow pill.
It should be noted that wario can pick up a dinosaur, and pile drive it directly into the ground with his bare hands
Absolutely terrifying please get him away from me
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming he can spare you if you hand out your coin and garlic
not a big deal i can do that too
I personally say there is a third pill, the sonic pill. It takes the moment physics of the character and the level design is built around it, but to a crazy extreme where you can use the level to move instead of moving in the level.
Sonic is an interesting case I’ve seen three different pills in this comment section. Regardless, he really does utilize physics to his advantage
I hear the N games are sonicpilled.
does this mean pizza tower overdoses on all 3 pills
@@quinndepatten4442 Sorta but N the way of the Ninja also has its own thing that differentiates it from all the other platformers
Celeste does have a _few_ blocks that do that.
The TASes use those and it's _hilarious_ when you see them. *Literal* blink-and-you-miss it rooms.
My absolute favorite parts is how he talks about how disgusting wario is to him from what he dose to even having the strongest hands to use them to pick his nose lol
HE IS SO NASTY LOL
make a chain of **picks nose** replies (noone can ruin it even if they comment something different)
**picks nose**
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming *picks nose*
nick's pose
Wario is the first sigma male in the history of gaming.
Absolutely not he is so disgusting LMAO
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming Point still stands
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming you're lucky I'm out of garlic, normie.
"Mom?"
-The Vault Dweller
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming being Disgusting is a part of being a sigma male
Some of us like slower platformers. I've never been able to get into Sonic because it's just too damn fast and my brain and hands can't keep up with it. That's why I love Mario games. They're fun and generally aren't so fast that I get confused.
And that's totally valid. There are platformers of all types for different people and sometimes playing a chill Mario game is just what you need
Both Mario like and wario like games are honestly my favorite
And but i can understand your problem
Have fun the way you want buddy
Same
And some of us like faster platformers. Sonic is pretty dang fun if you are able to have good reflex and adapt to changes within the game. Diversion is what makes society unique, but I wish people understood that since we always either agree or disagree on something due to opinions :/
@@justa_user the problem is not reflex but you need to learn the stage at heart to get the full potential (just like dkc).
It's fine for a race game but for me it's a bother in platforms games. I prefer skill and decision over learning.
You're telling me Madeline starts as a Mario-esque character and
*Transitions* into a Wario-eaque character, hmmm?
We love a trans gender icon
oh that's clever
he's a man for sure through and through
@@angel_of_rust Who, Mario? Yeah, he's a man. But The Doc Block wasn't focusing on Mario.
@@bane2201 all 3 of them
I think we should address the other side of the Mario coin. While Donkey Kong Country uses the Mario pill due to the nature of jumping and being put into dangers even more dangerous than what's in Mario games, Donkey Kong Country also innovates on it. It gives you barrel cannons to time those blasts and gives you animal buddies that can change up the gameplay entirely! What feels like a water level at one point transforms into a moment where you ride Enguarde the Swordfish and can beat up enemies with ease. Like having the fire flower and the frog suit in one go! Everything that Mario does, Donkey Kong either learns from it or innovates upon it to make it better. And sometimes Mario follows on that. The bone dragon rollercoaster in NSMBU was probably heavily inspired by the mine cart stages of DKC
I absolutely adore DKC I recently replayed the original triology and I totally agree with you! DKC takes the Mario pill and then grabs spesific elements from Wario to make a better experience. Couple that with levels that are literally oozing with charm and you have one of the most consistent platforming series ever made
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming He makes a DK vitamin
The Bonecoaster was first introduced in NSMBWii, but yeah, probably.
@@legoboy7107 I couldn't tell where it originated. Both Wii and U had canyon roller coasters
Considering the Animal Buddies, I would say DK is in a strange superposition between Mario Pilled and Wario Pilled
Platformers really boil down to dodge things, and navigate with physics
Wait you name is Mario Wario this video was made for you lmao
I usually despise gross out humor or generally disgusting looking characters, but there's something about the way Wario does it that makes his rat bastard energy infinitely charming.
Celeste literally opened both pills, dumped the contents of the Wario pill into the Mario pill, and then ate the Mario pill.
Madeline just sniffed the powder inside both pills at the same time.
we need more celeste pill
And then washed it down with an estradiol pill
@@coolfightlady2434 is that what i think it isss?
normal celeste is mostly mario pill, with wario pills added over time from player skill
meanwhile, modded celeste dumps in bottles of wario pills (from physics changes) and mario pills (grand master level design), and now madeline goes nyoom even faster and easier, just to barely beat the map
The thing with Sonic, is that it's *neither* Mario nor Wario, because:
- Mario is a character with simple to learn controls, with the levels being increasingly complicated to make up for it.
- Wario sports hard to learn controls that take a while to master, so the scenarios are much more simple to balance it out.
And... Sonic, while having simple controls like a Mario, has movement hard to fully master like a Wario.
The levels are complicated as in Mario, but due to the character's skills they're very replayable as in Wario.
There's also the fact that Sonic is neither punished by a set amount of hits, and neither he's immortal or impervious to damage. While the only consequence to getting hit usually is having to chase the ring you lost, or either it or you falling off a platform if you're unlucky enough... besides that, there's no much consequence besides it being a mild annoyance... however, the game encourages you to avoid cheesing the Ring System to get through enemies, by not only adding them to your score, but also rewarding the player for keeping a hold of them... The ring system is rather unique to Sonic.
You would be half wrong by calling Sonic-inspired games "Mario-Likes" or "Wario-Likes", that's why they're called "Sonic-Likes" in the realm of 2D action platformers.
I think this is fair enough however I'd still argue for Sonic to fall under the Mario category. In my experience Sonic has less of a learning curve than Wario. It's very intuitive with max speed being able to be obtained with a spin dash or just rolling down a slope. What makes it hard to maintain speed is the Mario level design it has. I will give you though that the damage system is very Wario-like with both series encouraging moving forward instead of being careful
I think there’s something to be said about the replay ability of sonics stages that make his games more wario like when replaying them and trying to get a faster time. The way i see it wario level design is made to make the player think “whats the right move to use here” “whats the proper way to get past this obstacle” instead of a mario game where the answer is clear but all the focus is put on the execution. I think sonics design also promotes thinking like “whats the best way to beat this level fast” “what route should i pick” which is in line with my idea of a wario pilled game but this is only when replaying levels trying to beat them faster, on a first play through the game is much more Mario like
Essentially Sonic takes both pills, turns them into powder and snorts it.
The Ring system was made as a preventitive measure because of Sonic's focus on running fast through the screen and being like a Mario that has the run button on at all times with even more momentum (yes speed did matter on some level to Sonic since the beginning, just look at Sonic Teams interviews on programming the original game) and that had the inevitable problem of running into enemies a lot hence that system got made beforehand to the problem and him rolling in his jump too.
Because of that though racking up score as a reward was then implemented since Sega were still big on arcadey style of gameplay in wanting you to replay the levels over and over again with more skill and the fun that comes from that.
I have a question, is regular 3D Sonic just Crash-like? Those are linear levels those feel like 3d versions of a 2d Mario level but with many deviations, but still linear since the goal is the same.
Wait, so the 3d Mario games are actually Wario games? I mean, take Odyssey for example, it has a very versatile pool of moves Mario can do, and they can all be combined into crazy combinations if the player is skilled enough, and all of the worlds have gimmicks (in this case captures), that are almost always exclusive to that world.
I'd say 3D Mario with each entry goes further and further in the Wario direction. 64, Galaxy 1 + 2 I'd say are more Mario games while sunshine and Odyssey go in the Wario direction
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming no wonder i find the 3d mario games to better than the 2d ones
Odyssey had to hard-cap (pun intended) the number of Cappy jumps you can do, because if they didn't, you would be able to go _literally anywhere, anytime_
Galaxy 1+2, 3D Land, and 3D World are the 3D versions of 2D Mario, while 64, Sunshine and Odyssey are the 3D version of Wario.
1:22 let’s just appreciate how much effort you put it in to making Wario sound like a war criminal
"When playing for the first time, Celeste feels more like a Mario game. When replaying it, you get a pinch of Wario"
Meanwhile, the gameplay show for "Wario" Celeste is a TAS that goes at light speed and goes through dust bunnies/spikes bc demo dash
Oh good I feel better knowing it’s a TAS. I played way too much Celeste back in the day and knew all the movement tech - but those clips made me feel like maybe I was playing on assist mode or something
Lmao I showed the TAS just to illustrate how crazy it gets but I suppose it would be a hefty serving of Wario
Got to say, I really hope m-pill or w-pill turns into a term in game design
I mean I’d love for my videos to have a physical impact on game design!
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming sadly it's unlikely because, I mean, where would something like Dust fall into things?
Just like r and K reproductive strategies
@@vyor8837 strand pill
It would be nice to have this distinction as a widespread design idea.
At the very least, having the features of Wario Land games be recognized beyond the rather broad "Metroidvania" term.
Which is mentioned in this thematically similar video that focuses on the 'Wario Pill' side of things, specifically Wario Land 3:
_Wario Land 3: The Best Nintendo Game_ by *hotcyder*
th-cam.com/video/RGOJkAVkGMo/w-d-xo.html
Conker's Bad Fur Day is a very iconic Wario game
Fr
You know, when you think about it, it’s actually kind of poetic when the wario-likes comes after the Mario the likes (ex: Celeste), like in the good old days when Nintendo made wario games after super Mario land 2.
The age of the Wario is upon us
After you’ve established great movement, you have to add a gimmick or something, and thus start down the path to Wario-pilling
Super Mario Oddesy does a similar thing as Celest where it feels like a Mario pill for most of the game, but once you figure out how to cap jump you can breeze through every level that you struggled with before.
Mario is not a working class man, he’s insanely rich.
Bro literally has a Castle in super mario land 2
@@ssg-eggunner Not only that, but an entire theme park the size of a country, which he abandons. Wario (who is homeless at this point in the lore) finds out the castle is empty and abandoned, and takes refuge there. When Mario finds out about this, he comes back from his holiday early just to personally evict Wario, and leave the theme park to be abandoned again.
@@Png_gaming Yo where are you getting that Mario has a theme park because I cannot find anything that's not Super Nintendo World.
Well he was a middle class working man until wealth corrupted him
@@chungo. its the location of mario land 2.
Pizza Tower took mostly everything from Wario 4 and mirror polished it. Speed and momentum actually feels scarily fast and needs some half good reaction speed, moves cancel into each other for fluid and dynamic movement, grabs can use to start momentum or climb walls, combo chains.
I've heard a lot about Pizza Tower lately. I should really try it
Wario Land 4 is my favorite platformer of all time, and is WAY too underrated. Thank you so much for this video.
Wario Land 4 goes crazyy not enough people have played it
Wario land 4 is a masterpiece
Wario Land 4 is the GOAT of the Wario franchise
It's Nintendo's greatest achievement.
2D Mario has extremely simplistic movement but 3D Mario has a ton of complexity in its movement allowing you to all sorts of crazy moves and skips which i always found very interesting.
And Pizza tower takes 3D mario and 2D Wario and throws 'em in a blender.
You can talk about how weird and/or gross Wario is but he straight up was the reason why I found out I liked guys ^^;
Well um I really hope you have better taste in men in real life
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming I like bears
@Rainbow On Paper why'd you say this?
I'm so glad people are noticing this excellent creation known as pizza tower. and I'm also glad people are taking interesting platformers and revisiting them and adding their own touch to perfect it. now all I need is a reimagining of ristar and my life is complete
I heard about a long time ago but with all the coverage it got recently I just had to pick it up on release. I hope many more people do the same!
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming oh you'd be surprised
The transition to pizza tower hit hard
I really like the description you give for each pill and it legit feels as if all platforms fall onto a spectrum and these pills are the extremes on each end.
the third secret option after taking both pills gives you the sonic gameplay style
1:59 Wario is Lebron James confirmed
Lmao yeah I never edited that out
So what you're saying is that Wario and Kirby routinely go to Peppino Spaghetti's Pizza Tower for the famed Extra Large Double Garlic Pizza?
I uh maybe?
I’m shook that a channel with ~4k subs is making videos this good, you’re headed in the right direction!
Thank you so much hopefully I’ll be able to make it to high subscriber counts soon!
Mario: Woah! How'd ya get here? Better use those moves you learned!
Wario: Hah! You gotta get outta some crumbling tower! Good thing you got no idea what to do!
Celeste: You do de oingy boingy bouncey wouncey!
Pizza tower: *By the time we're done, yo fingies gonna be mashed taters cuz you gonna recreate Bethoven's 9th f***in symphony, u n d e r s a n d ?*
And if you feel extra spicy, do it twice over.
Geometry dash: Here's a cool-lookong obstacle course. See you in a couple of weeks.
Crash: Micromanage your position on these platforms to escape the tower.
Yoshi’s Island SNES-like: Throw an egg to activate a thing that will help you escape the tower (and possibly fight a raven on the moon)
Yoshi’s Story-likes: Collect these things to unlock harder levels of the tower so you can escape the tower in a different area!
I actually thought they differentiate because of their production style. Mario being more focussed on clean design and platforming, Wario being more about creativity, exploring ideas and wacky storytelling
So we have the Mario Pill, a simple move set in a more difficult setting.
Also the Wario Pill, a more complex move set with simpler/easier levels.
But we also have the Sonic Pill, has the simple move set of the Mario Pill but more momentum based stuff.
Maybe even the mentioned Scrooge McDuck Pill, which is also a sort of Mario Pill Variation. Simple move set but has a more ‘bouncy’ feel. Scrooge and Shovel Knight have a main move which involves constantly bouncing across the levels.
If somebody figures out how to combine those two pills, I'll consider playing that game.
Nice video though, you receive a like.
I think your best bet is Celeste. I love that game to death with all of its advanced movement options and i speedrun it all the time
Yoshi's Island
Hollow knight
I'm 100% taking the Wario pill.
execellent choice
I literally just rewatched the Matrix last night.
Also shout out to Pizza Tower. My bro and I have supported the Patreon since the sage demo. Basically Wario action with Sonic flow. Please check it out.
Also, you can uppercut by holding up and pressing attack. Video didn't show or mention that.
Thanks to you for helping bring that amazing game to life!
The vibe I'm getting from this is that Warframe's movement system is 3D equivalent of the Wario Pill
Wario pill: *Exists*
Pizza tower: *Puts the pill on a blender and snorts it*
It is straight up overdosing on that Wario pill
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming IT IS THE WARIO PILL
I like the Steam review that says Pizza Tower is based and Wario pilled, but specifically that one Wario pill seized by Japanese authorities with the near-lethal dose of MDMA.
Puts two in the blender
I prefer my platformers to have some linearity in them, but not too much to the point that they keep dragging on with no secrets or anything to look forward to.
I agree secrets re a great way to keep me engaged (unless they're wayy too hard to find)
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming exactly my point. Nintendo power was certainly needed back then.
Celeste does that pretty well. Hidden optional strawberry collectibles and cassettes that unlock _COMPLETELY NEW LEVELS,_ along with the big one-per-level Crystal Heart collectibles
@Loibuuu Yeah but that game is hard as fuck though.
I’d say pizza tower has a great balance, each world lets you choose what level to play first but you will most likely end up playing all of them anyways. Plus the only necessary “secret” are the toppins which are hardly secret and are very easy to get, but still possible to miss so it encourages exploration. Every other secret/achievement is completely optional so you can experience most of the game’s surprises in a casual play through. Really I just believe Pizza tower has no flaws at all lol.
Then there’s the pizza tower pill that’s basically WARIO ant Sonic combined.
Metroid i guess is a mix as well. Its level design is an absolute maze requiring memorization of puzzles, locations, and dangers, while also getting progressively harder to deal with(Mario Pill) as you also get progressively more difficult to defeat yourself (Wario Pill). It also plays similar functions with Celeste. Once you begin using the wall jump, shinesparks, and other hidden tricks in Samus' arsenal, you always make sure to use it again in the future.
Yeah, metroidvanias start like mario, but evolve over time to be more like wario
Pizza tower resembles so much to wario in terms of design, art, sillyness and many other things thatit feels like a wario land spiritual succesor
Celeste literally has a super Mario bros 3 reference when getting the crystal heart in chapter 4
My favorite platformer: Monster boy and the Cursed Kingdom takes both pills, at the start you only have some simple mechanics, an armor system and weapons, but later you gain a whole lot more abilities, the level design goes from forgiving to painful to go with your more abilities, its hard to keep track of what you can and can't do later on and that's why i love it, the armors and weapons also help with this while bringing another layer on the already giant masterpiece of strategy, getting chests with more lives and money becomes hard even for the most skilled players, it may just look like a Mario pill but it also has a ton of elements of the Wario pill
I haven’t heard about this game maybe I should check it out!
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming yeah if you want to then go for it, its really fun
7:00 no, the question on my mind is...what makes a game Italian?
Having the last name spaghetti is a pretty good start
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming having a mustache too
i think the main reason why i can never play any platformer besides celeste is because of how satisfying celestes controls are and how much control you have in it, now i cant get used to literally anything else
Celeste controls like butter feels it's so smooth
Celeste-pilled should be another subcategory where you have jump plus one other significant move, and the point of the game is that it is explorable and hard to navigate (like a Mario game) but you can master it and rush through it if you are good (like a Wario game). In this subcategory, Yoshi’s Island SNES and Yoshi’s Woolly World would count as Celeste-likes
Hollowknight controls better than mario. I tried NSMBW recently again and the nunchuk felt awful to use
I love hearing him say wario pill, he clearly doesn't know that wario pills actually exist
pink wario tablet
You’re right I’ve never ever heard or seen the wario ecstasy
Mario.- Redpill, is simple movement in progressively complex level designs.
Wario.- Purplepill, complex moveset in seemingly simple level designs so you can figure out what you have to do.
Sonic.- Bluepill, physics based moveset in a complex level design with multiple paths you can take to reach the end.
Kirby.- Pinkpill, simple moveset and simple level design, which you can expand at any time with a power up.
Banjo-Kazooie.- Brownpill, moveset is complex but easy to control and is in open ended level designs (or "open zones") you can explore at your own pace without having to worry about doing everything.
Wario's stomach can hold 22 gallons. The average stomach can hold 0.25 gallons.
What
He’s ferociously nasty lmao
Waiting for the moment he talks about pizza tower is like waiting for them to say the name of the movie in the movie
Could you give more examples of Mario and Wario pilled games?
Sure! I’d say games like super meat boy, most shovel knight campaigns, crash bandicoot and Megaman classic are Mario pilled. Wario pilled games include Kirby, and most Metroidvanias
Would Banjo-Kazooie count as being Wario-like or Mario-like? Tooie seems very Wario like especially since you never stop with transformations and “modes of movement” and “actions” until the very end.
Im so glad this video covers both celeste and pizza tower like what great timing considering all the twitter memes happening with them two right now
I've seen these two games compared so much on twitter but I think they're really different design wise
Have you guys picked up Pizza Tower yet cause that's all I've been playing since it's came out. If you're new don't forget to like and subcribe! Thanks for 2.5k once again!
Waiting for it to be price dropped cus they messed up the regional prices and while I know it's good, it's also about 30$
Wario pill
I cannot stop playing it
just beat it yesterday lol
So Dead Cells went mad with power and swallowed both pills
Maybe even something similar can apply to 3D action games.
The yoshi pill flies in the face of both of these philosophies and says, "if you're willing to do the painstaking work of designing around it, you can give your player the absolute jankiest movement option and they'll love it"
"How do we create the worst human being alive?"
brother says point 1 is loving Garlic 💀guess im a horrible human being lmao
As long as you don’t eat cloves of the stuff I’m cool with it
Pizza Tower is just like
“How about both”
And nails it.
I consider abilities that let you Wario-pill areas you previously had to Mario-pill the mark of a great Metroidvania.
I'm more of a Wario Land 3 guy myself.
Wario land 3 is pretty good but 4 is gods gift to this earth
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming Eh, I played through WL4 once, but was never as enamored with it as I was WL3.
Me too! Check out the video on my channel where I do a reading of an essay on why it's the most unique metroidvania ever made. I mean, if you want to.
Same
I haven't played it, but everytime I see Pizza Tower my soul just fills with joy from how delightfully oozing with bombastic character each and every frame is.
What are doing go out and buy it now it’s pizza time
I feel like games like Celeste take "1 mechanic" to a whole new level, and not in a good way. The whole game revolves around that single mechanic, and the whole thing ends up feeling hollow as though it were just a long series of test runs for a mechanic that was meant to be dropped into a more complete game. It's like the devs had that "one idea" and instead of trying to implement that into a bigger picture, they made it the entire picture.
I watched this video a while ago and what’s crazy is I realized - despite the relaxing tone, Kirby games are 100% Wario pilled.
(Or maybe Wario is Kirby pilled given the timeline).
and then you have single control platformers that have just the craziest results (something like a geometry dash pill for example) and relies entirely on level design
But what about platformers that go in & out of 2D & 3D like Crush or Super Paper Mario, or 2.5D platformers like Yoshi's Story or Kirby & the Crystal Shards? Do they fall into a category too?
honestly, id take the wario pill after pizza tower.
great choice
How do I be wario pullied
What did I just say
I think a pulley is one of them simple machines
i know its not 2d but,, what would a game like sm64 fall into ?
i dont think it fits into either pill,, ur movement never changes but its decently complex with many moves and a high skill ceiling
the levels are pretty simple but feel fun because theyre playgrounds for mario to move around in moreso than obstacle courses
3D Mario gets closer and closer to Wario with each passing game it feels but I'd say 64 is solidly a Mario game. The moves themselves don't feel super complex or fast but you're right it has a super high skill ceiling which makes it have tons of replayability
I just remembered Levelhead. Levelhead trys to be mario (mario maker specifically) with the twist of carrying the key to the exit. Thing is, this key is a box.
You can throw it, stand on it, and fall through it. You run just by moving for a while in one direction. There are powerups. The enemies are too niche to be compared to mario
It's just mario on drugs
Are you sure all platformers take these two pills. There are lots of platformers out there that don't follow the rules of either Mario or Wario. I don't wanna think I'm automatically designing a game after Mario or Wario when maybe instead I'd be designing it after Rayman or Klonoa instead.
But I do love Wario and I'm planning a series of three platformers called Norman Penguin. Norman Penguin has a moveset similar to Wario's but it not coming from Wario Land 4 like Pizza Tower. Here is the inspiration for each game.
Norman Penguin - Wario Land Shake It
Norman Penguin 2 - Rayman Origins
Norman Penguin 3 - Wario World
This is an interesting way of looking at the difference between level complexity and character complexity.
Incidentally, you could stretch this idea to apply to other facets of game design too, like combat. In an adventure game like Legend of Zelda, Link starts off with a pretty _basic_ kit, just a few different types of slash and a block. The equipment you find can add to this combat kit, granted, but it can just as well only serve to help you navigate the environment (Much like Mario power-ups). The main challenge factor of the game comes from navigating many different environments and having to face many different types of enemy throughout them. Contrast a spectacle brawler like Devil May Cry, suddenly _everything_ is about the combat; every new weapon you can get your hands on is a slew of new combat abilities the likes of which rival your average fighting game character. Enemies are more basic because the main challenge factor comes from stringing your insane move list together to create stylish combos.
Basically, what I'm saying is Dante is Wario for edgy people.
This is a great analysis of combat in games! Maybe I should make a Link and Dante pill video 🤔
I never heard about Pizza Tower before, but it looks like a disgusting fusion between Wario Land and Cow and Chicken.
... I need to try it.
Always glad to see people covert to Pizza Tower
Main reason of why Wario like games are such a blast it's because the characters in those game look ugly and disgusting, which gives them an unique look therefore turning them into memorable desing and esthethic overall.
To be fair, one snack that my mom sometimes has garlic in there, and I must say, if you’re ready to eat the garlic then the garlic feels alright if not however…
I like garlic when im prepared for it lol
By your logic, I'm pretty sure Mario Odyssey is Wario Pilled.
pizza tower is genuinely one of the best games ive ever played
It makes me think how Sonic is some space north of Wario, favoring simple level design for easily built speed but has a somewhat varied moveset that alters direction quickly (stomp, homing attack) and is generally more focused on giving you that speed without the level getting in your way to force a higher skill ceiling. The older games had a stark contrast between these speed sections and slow and methodic platforming a la Mario.
I feel like any game with any level of focus on movement could be classified on a XY graph with level simplicity and sense of top speed being the factors.
And then there's the Mega Man pill - that is to say, platformers that have challenging levels yet offer the player multiple means to tackle every scenario. Only example I can think of off the top of my head is Shovel Knight Treasure Trove, but I'm sure there're more out there like it.
Calling Celeste a rage game is just sad….
sure, it’s hard, but not unfair 💀
I did rage quit on Celeste, so it fits on me. 😄
@@DkViking1 thats not how it works. Celeste is not a Rage Game
@@Purble That's how it works for me.
To me, Celeste is a rage game.
@@DkViking1 Celeste was not intentionally designed to be as frustrating as possible. No matter how mad the game made you, it isnt a rage game. Its like saying Celeste is a porn game just because YOU think Theo is hot. Goofy!
Paintvale took the rayman pill
Captain wayne took the duke nukem pill
Annalyn took the pacman pill
Another option is the Sonic pill though: simple moves, with speed being the factor that introduces difficulty. Some of the games mentioned here make me think more of Sonic than Mario/Wario because of how fast they go.
Guacamelee 2 is what happens when you have complicated movement systems and complicated level design.
AntonBlast is the next Wario pilled game on the radar. Looking forward to it.
While I understand and absolutely agree with both example games given, I said to myself at the beginning of the video that I _really_ hope that the only Wario-esque game he mentions is Pizza Tower lol. Nothing against Pizza Tower, it's a fantastic game, it's just that it's not only a brand new game, but it's also been deliberately made to _be_ an homage to the Wario world games. I would've liked to see more examples of each of these categories to better prove that "all 2D platformers" do this.
Me playing Pizza Tower or Anton Blast: Based and Wario Pilled
Great Video!
Really Interesting!!
I’m interested to see where the newer ray man games fall on this spectrum, a personal favorite series of mine
I want to study wario in a terrarium but he would absolutely shatter said terrarium the moment I put him in there
After playingvpizza tower, every other platformer game felt like i was stuck in molasses
I suppose a sonic game might be what you need now
@@SlightlyInDepthGaming
Nah, Peppino is way faster than Sonic (Whoa, this guy is faster than sonic) and has inhaled at minimum 3 times the amount of Coke.
Geometry Dash: Allow me to introduce myself
You know... this video is very analytical in its evidence. I'm sure everyone would love a sequel to this video with 3D Platformers instead! How about "Mario 64 Pill" or the "Sonic Adventures Pill"? Would be quite interesting! What do you think?
Watching this video makes me want to swallow the real life existing Wario Ecstasy Pill containing 300+ milligrams of MDMA.
please do not take real life wario pill
Pizza tower took the Wario pill while on speed.
Wario being a disgusting slob but also apparently having perfect teeth is so funnt
You should have talked about Sonic, he perfectly fits what you're discussing
Dude has one button but his levels are multilayered mazes of insanity