I just want to thank you, Michael for being so transparent. I am an INTJ but had a huge drug era and just never focused on doing anything. That made me question my mbti type because you hear so much that INTJs have it together and have this plan. Well I didnt for so long. When I'm in a healthy space, my type can come out more authentically and completely.
The energy of this conversation was so grounded and vulnerable. I loved watching the child-like curiosity push the dialog toward understanding different perspectives. This was a very natural conversation One might engage in with strangers to build a genuine relationship while incorporating bits of MBTI nuggets. Joyce's engagement style in this convo was also a nice change of pace from her usual Type Talk "interviews." It was lovely to hear her share her experiences and insights with less hesitation. I feel that I know Joyce a little bit more after this conversation. Thank you, Joyce, for sharing this post-game chat! (Thank you, Sheila, John, and Michael, also!)
its so funny to see their fi , they are like 'this is my experience' yaaaaa yaaaa for me 'my experience is' yaaaa yaa i feel the same 'my experience with this is' lollll very fi talk
Hi JOYCE, great vid as usual! This was excellent material. Thanks to the cast for being game. Got a long & serious-mode comment though & hoping to Ni organize this one: ✌️😁 - The pattern i'm seeing in this type group interview is friction. Instead of being complimentary, precisely because they all have the same fxns, it ends up in a competition of space or stack ranking because they are arranged differently for each of the type, including the earlier vid where KC was. - When JOYCE asks a question, the one who answers feels that he/she might offend the others because his/her dominant function serves a totally different 'treatment' of the same fxns relative to the other 3. . I think that the seeming tension may have registered past or low signal on Joyce's radar as an Fe user because it's more of an "Fi conviction" thing. Hence, when one gives an answer or an assessment of what's going on, (for lack of a better term) the "tyrant Te" becomes hard not just on the individual per se but everybody else as well (referring to just the 4). Therefore the Fi internal struggle was unable to find a remedy &/or resolution in the competing external Te structure. - I'm guessing that if Joyce gets one of the other type group where Ti-Fe dichotomy is present, it would be an equally heated intellectual discussion, if I may say, of whose right or who knows better for the tribe's harmony. I say this because I observed similar & familiar dynamics with the 5 INTP's video at least in my estimation. - As they say, the Introverted functions tends to pull reality in while the extroverted ones pulls that reality out. John has lots of energy to spare while Michael was conserving them. The tug-of-war was real though. Furthermore, the Judging fxn/Decider dichotomy/coins becomes the evident source of 'self-assurance' in this social exchange. Te being aware of the power structure and Fi defending the integrity of the internal structure. - Finally, for "Te's sake", what seemed to be missing here was role designation. It's got to be very clear for Te users otherwise the Fi will not be able to adjust and comfortably find it's safe space. This was the reason, i should say, Sheila's Fi pointed this out as that 'invisible force' that was making her nervous. Te users feel at ease when the structure arranges them accordingly. I can say this having all these 4 in my family. - Btw, INTJ me😁1w9 = claims to know everything but not doing anything ESFP brother = we fistfight alot almost killing each other back then ISFP sister = has a very sharp tongue when angry but the sweetest ENTJ mother = the commander ---> Peace guys! ✌️✌️✌️💪👍
John’s roofie story is interesting. I’m glad the TH-cam algorithm recommended this channel to me! Love hearing about how everyone’s respective biology handles the same situation differently.
When Joyce said she needs extroverts to probe to help her communicate I found that actually really moving and could totally relate.. I noticed that it made Michael very emotional for a moment too.
For Michael to be honest the first thing came up to my mind when i first saw him was “ sis i like this dude , i mean he’s actually gives a good vibe or special vibe i can put it in words hehh , i even send the video to one of my friends , and ask him about the one’s who is wearing glasses !! And she told me the same thing , i mean all the intjs that were in the videos were nice ,but for some reason you can actually feel his presences , maybe that’s why there’s a hate comments? They felt what they say and just wrote it down ! Whatever it was good or bad , i talked a lot sorry for that and for my bad English too hhh ,
Interesting convo. When you guys were talking about people who say mean stuff just to "throw it out there", that made me consider the way I speak sometimes. I remembered it this morning when I read the following verse in Ephesians 4:29 "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen."
You should do a type talk video with 2-4 blast lasts; EXXP or IXXJ ; or EXXJ ; would like there to be more discussions on blast differentiation from first to last in how it is experienced by those typed with it (vs. in text form). Also 10000% agree on the INTJ energy management, I've had a long history with stimulants as well; and also had adrenal fatigue. Something Dave has spoken about with INTJ's.
I Love this conversation guys, thanks all of you! So many insight from all 4! :) And my fellow Ni-doms, I relate a lot! Around min 50, "Political" and consciousness stuff, 100% with you.
Michael: Last video: "I like to be assaulted by strobe lights." ... This video: "I like to assault other people with strobe lights." Michael is the original horror moving statue. :D
1:16:10 An analogy that came to mind is a sudoku board. For me it's rarely linear. The difficulty of the task determines how many boxes are pre filled with the numbers. The whole thing doesn't need to be finished to start, just enough. The ones left blank are usually discernible by default or easy to figure in the moment. I set Tile for a living. Most people set and cut as they go. I like to measure and cut as much as I can until I hit a point where it might be off if I continue, Then I'll start. It makes it easier by not having to get up and down on my knees all day.
Loved this conversation! Lots of points that I related to. Michael - you mentioned needing to conserve your energy and not having enough. I feel the exact opposite. Like I have too much energy and I need to find ways to expel it throughout the day. John - you mentioned being told you were "too much", that’s been the most common criticism I get. "Too much, too intense". But John seems good with people, that is an area which I tend to struggle. Sheila was on an ISFP video and they were all talking about how others thought they had a calm or relaxing energy. I feel the exact opposite, like I bring the uptight and nervous energy. The biggest thing that I related to is when Sheila was talking about Se and how it’s her happy place. I 100% relate. I call it "Se drunk", it’s pure bliss. I’m curious how each type feels/reacts to internal pressure verses outer pressure. When Sheila talked about being competitive I was curious. I’m very sensitive to pressure. I hate feeling pressure by "the world". I become stubborn, defensive and insecure. I’m not normally competitive with others. I am very internally motivated and feel internal pressure. I feel like this is somehow connected to my Fi wanting to be free to be me without the constraints or expectations of The Tribe. I’m also curious how each type sees themselves with respect to rebellion. Going with what others want verses what they want. I’m also interested in how each of these types relate to anxiety. I know that depression was touched on in one of the videos, but not anxiety. I would think anxiety would be tied more to our extroverted function with depression being more tied to our introverted functions. I still can’t tell my function stack (but I’m fairly sure I’m on the Se/Ni, Te/Fi axis). In my youth I typed as an ENTJ. In middle adulthood i typed as INFJ (surprising lol!). I thought for sure I was Ni dom. I am very internally focused and have never been very social or been really good with people. I’m happy by myself for days, especially if I have lots to do and can be outside walking, hiking, kayaking, etc. At this point I’m more confused then clear about what I’m doing in a saviour or demon state.
Fantastic conversations! Now THIS is my kinda party! :-) Regarding the political discussion, I'm with the Lefties. Enough said there, otherwise it could be a week long conversation. Regarding the Se, Sheila talked about Se happening to her while John talked about stepping into Se. I think what they are getting at is passive Se (smelling a rose, feeling the breeze in your hair, enjoying a good aria or Metallica or Fleetwood Mac song, etc.) VS active Se (which is strenuous and requires more energy such as sports or physical labor). I find that people with low Se tend to prefer passive Se while people with high Se seem to be drawn towards active Se. As an INTJ, I am in that camp as well and just feel so much joy engaging in passive Se (music, nature, etc.). But I tend to avoid the really active Se. When I was younger, I was pretty athletic and even now I do enjoy hiking but I'm never going to have a rock-climbing or surfing hobby. I DO know that there is joy in that physical exertion and feeling the vitality of your body and I remember loving that feeling back when I was a gymnast and dancer in my youth but as a matter of routine, that Se expends way too much energy that I don't want to take away from my Ni. I do agree it was fun though. Sometimes I think I'll take up tennis as a way to get back into active Se.
Active Se vs Passive Se - Interesting differentiation!! :) Yea, I'm trying to get more into my body, and it's really grounding. Integrating that lower Se is quite nice and balancing. I would recommend it to everyone
Great vid guys. Thanks for sharing your sides & cognitoes. Ni-Ti (Fe) Joyce, Se-Te (Fi) John, Fi-Ni (Se) Sheila, & Ni-Fi (Te) Michael. The ennea extras from John were also appriciated. Joyce, you mentioned being a 6. Would that be the counterphobic 6 by any chance? Tarik (INFJ)
As an ENFP 5w4 I do both, Perdue and control sensory as well as slow down and let it wash over me. How interesting. Ex: tree rope obstacle courses and holding a hot coffee, laying under the snugly blanket, reading a book, listening to the birds chirp as the white snow glass softly on a cold day (pulled away by the thought of how baby birds survive in such cold weather . 10 degrees and less). I love it all! Planning holiday celebrations, getting into the cooking and taste etc, and then sitting back and watching conversation and people enjoying each other’s company while I snuggle a cuddly baby. 💕🤗🥰💕. Life is a beautiful playground.
With regards to 4th slot Se that you guys were talking about near the end of this, I don't think it's that it's weak or unobservant, I think it's actually very perceptive and tuned in... it's just that incoming Se info tends to trigger Ni, which then suppresses Se in favor of gaining an Ni understanding. As an Ni dom, I tend to think the really important/relevant info is found in the Ni insights - which is debatable, and a preference. Whether that's true or not is mostly situationally dependent.
It is perceptive and tuned in when in Se mode! I find that however when I'm pursuing a Ni trail of thought, I momentarily suppress the Se in favor of analyzing the idea I'm having in all its depth. It was getting late so I might've misspoken in the video! But yes, I agree with your points legendzfall. :)
@@JoyceMeng22 I think Ni suppressing Se happens even at a subconscious or pre-conscious level - so even if we're not aware of the Ni process, it may still be re-routing awareness and processing power away from the sensory info that is coming in. That is just my personal view on it, I could be wrong.
Sometimes I think that the distinction between feminine something and masculine something is so unhealthy. I hope we are at a changing point in time where it is okay for men to be caring, taking on the main caring responsibilities in a family for instance - and for women to also be able to be less caring, less cooperative, etc.
I'm pretty sure it's completely ok for men and women to behave in those ways, in fact it's heavily encouraged for people to break gender norms now. However I still don't think there's a problem with observing a general pattern of masculine/feminine in nature. Obviously it's fine if a man acts in a more "feminine" way but it's understood that men have less of a natural inclination to be that way.
@@Slippernips Yeah, I can see your point - but while I do believe in biological inclinations I think that the role of nurture can't be highlighted enough. I know that a lot of women are describing themselves as masculine - just because they are being who they are (confident, unapologetic), which is pretty absurd to me. We are definitely on our way as a society (In the western world at least), but we there are still a lot of way to cover wrt. gender expectations. And in this regard, I think ascribing female and male characteristics to people are counterproductive - because those words are not neutral. They are charged with many connotations from many hundreds of years - and feelings on top of that. I mean, we spend our teens trying to live up to the gender expectations set by our culture (boys become men and girl become women) - and of course that attaches a lot of feelings to the words "masculine" and "feminine". And I think that ascribing active and confident characteristics to a masculine trait is just horrible. Not for men of course. But it reinforces how we see the default woman as not confident, less capable, less active.
@@aniokay Nurture is highlighted constantly. If anything, the pendulum has started to swing the other way where the influence of biology is disregarded as much as possible and everything is seen potentially as some kind of artificially-imposed social construct. If a woman wants to describe herself as "masculine" solely because she displays traits of leadership/confidence I think that is silly and there's not much reason for someone to do that. Perhaps some women feel good about identifying as masculine and it's not necessarily a bad thing to them. In this context (Objective Personality) people seem to just be using the masculine/feminine terms to describe different expressions of functions in a useful way. If anything it shows how some womens' cognitive development can cause them to present in traditionally "masculine" ways and vice versa for men. And that we are not all the same. I'm not sure I agree that many people "spend their lives trying to live up to gender expectations" to a significant degree, especially in a highly modernized country like the US. If you think there's a problem with boys growing up to become men and girls growing up to be women then...im not sure what to say to that. I would have to argue that these "masculine" and "feminine" stereotypes cemented over tens of thousands of years do in fact stem from innate biological differences between the sexes. Generally speaking, men ARE indeed more "confident"(not the best word to describe it but whatever) and "active" and, in some areas, most notably physical strength, more capable. The real problem is that "feminine" traits are currently undervalued and seen by foolish people as signs of weakness or somehow less valuable than being able to "take charge" or "be successful". "Feminine" traits also cause you to be more capable in certain areas, just not usually areas that tend to make a lot of MONEY, which is probably why our society doesnt seem to value them anymore. I see plenty of women who are more active than me. I see a lot more who are less active. I see plenty of women who are more confident than me. Because they are ACTUALLY confident, they dont seem to be the type to cry about whether they might be considered "masculine" or not. As far as capability, obviously both sexes will have their own unique strengths and weaknesses. At the end of the day, any person you are interacting with will be more confident in some areas, more capable in some areas, more active in certain situations and in different ways (mentally/physically) and I think everyone recognizes this without necessarily ascribing "masculine" or "feminine" to their behavior. Finally you seem to be under the mistaken impression that if it was ACTUALLY ok for men to be "feminine" or women to be "masculine" and our society had finally progressed enough toward gender neutrality, that you would necessarily see more men being stay at home fathers and more women being the breadwinner in the family or something. I basically argue that all of these things are perfectly ok and socially acceptable now, and that they are happening more frequently, but people are still just mostly choosing to align with their biological tendencies because it feels more natural to them. Sometimes I get the feeling that certain people won't be satisfied until any variance in expression between biological men and women is eliminated.
I can relate a lot to the whole cancel culture issue. It’s so much worse this last week with big tech companies censoring the President and trying to bully other smaller platforms to do the same.
John, in general, now that it is in our face and we have history to learn from, what can be done to have better outcomes? Respect, right? But when power and mental illnesses like narcissistic god complexes come into play, again, what then?
@@mbtisocialclub I started partying like a rock star at about 15, and then at around 25 I just woke up one day and was done with it. Not even sure why. I wish I had some better advice. They say to kick a bad habit, you have to replace it with a different(hopefully good) habit. Maybe find a good woman who won't put up with it haha
legendzfall having Ni is a funny thing because I understand addiction/abuse, I know where it’s going and I know I should be doing something to replace it but yet I do not do what I know I must do
@Sheila w, Did you notice the contrast in your competitive comment to the woman you played tennis with (pointing out her in competitiveness/flaws/weakness) vs when someone pointing out yours? ie..., “If you don’t have anything nice to say the I wish you’d just shit the F up? All our ego that tends toward blindness to ourself and judgment towards others. We just don’t always hear it until we fall upon hard times. @Micheal Y - totally hate the subtextual elephant in the room. Ugh!
“Theres alot of Fi there” yes this is exactly what I have been thinking. I was just reading Dario's new book and reviewing the pitfalls of Fi leads.They sounded exactly like what we are seeing in all of these protests: “Being forgetful of having heard or seen something because it doesnt match your beliefs. “ “React to an injustice in an all or nothing way without being open to negotiation or to seeing from another perspective. As a result you disrespect them as human beings and miss out on ways you could have cooperated.” “Get caught up in a cause without checking facts, noticing consequences, or thinking things through. Then you are disappointed when the outcome differs or is even the opposite of what you want.” “Over estimate the worth of emotions and idealism over scientific tools, philosophical principles, or business methods...”
Well said! Seeing the out of control F functions taking such precedence in western societies is part of the reason I tend to be leery of those functions altogether.
So weird when people think "Cancel culture" is a recent thing. Lmao. I'm also an INTJ and it's funny where Michael is coming from on the social structures. I agree on parts but not on other parts. Was surprised by Johns take. He's completely right about the last 50 years. Sheila... The "I have Black friends." Really?
Ty Lavell such a straw man reply, not referring to my whole context. actually some are my nephews that are black, and they have quite an opinion on all that is happening and yes, what is wrong with having black friends and mentioning them when talking about what is happening in society right now. What cancel culture is now being called has only been around for 5-6 years. Yes, throughout history people were killed, very different from how people are being cancelled now was what I was referring to.
@@sheandg Cancel Culture is not a recent thing. You can go all the way to Jesus being cancelled by the Romans or Socrates being cancelled by the Greeks in his city state. You can even say Martin Luther King was cancelled. It is human nature to call out people for behaviors that are deemed malevolent. These examples ended with death and to say that cancel culture is recent is just short sighted at best and ignorant at worst. This is analogous to the police brutality that keeps being exposed today. Just because you can more easily see it doesn't mean it didn't exist before. The internet and the platforms that allow us to share information has just exposed people to what was already happening. First it was your Black friends and now it's your nephews. Moving the goalposts eh? Regardless, the opinion of people from a third party is not something empirical. Anecdotal, and possibly made up, evidence to support a position is not a solid foundation. Also, I'm not debating you so my comment on the "I have a Black friend" isn't an argument. Using a phrase that is known to be used by racists to not appear racist has a long history. I'd recommend in the future to make your argument without tokenizing a Black person to give you some validity.
Ty Lavell if you listen to my words I was referring to my “friends” nephews and friends I have spoken to said they have never dealt with racism. I do have some black friend that have, I was using it in context that there are both side to every situation and that is what the convo was also about. Giving a voice to all sides. Racism exists of course, I have dealt with it myself, happens across the board. If I would have just said my “friends” have never dealt with racism everyone would have assumed I was speaking about white people I had to use the adjective black to eliminate confusion. Simple as that.
Type Talks After Dark
😂😂😏
You can go first!😂
I need in on that.
Are you in recovery? :O
Nic Stride: Going on 7 years
John (ESFP); great thoughts man.
Maturity, Reflecting, & Empathy.
I just want to thank you, Michael for being so transparent. I am an INTJ but had a huge drug era and just never focused on doing anything. That made me question my mbti type because you hear so much that INTJs have it together and have this plan. Well I didnt for so long. When I'm in a healthy space, my type can come out more authentically and completely.
I know. I’m an INTJ and he really does explain the Se inferior so well
I like how you (Joyce) allow silence and lulls in the conversation to just happen.
This got better as the folks got more comfortable with one another. I think part two is actually better than part one.
This was fucking amazing.
Never thought I'd be more into the episode that wasn't even about type, but the world is a strange place. :P
The energy of this conversation was so grounded and vulnerable. I loved watching the child-like curiosity push the dialog toward understanding different perspectives. This was a very natural conversation One might engage in with strangers to build a genuine relationship while incorporating bits of MBTI nuggets.
Joyce's engagement style in this convo was also a nice change of pace from her usual Type Talk "interviews." It was lovely to hear her share her experiences and insights with less hesitation. I feel that I know Joyce a little bit more after this conversation.
Thank you, Joyce, for sharing this post-game chat! (Thank you, Sheila, John, and Michael, also!)
You are so sweet, Katie! This was really nice and validating to read. :) Thank you so much for watching.
@@JoyceMeng22 I appreciate the work you put into your videos! This kind of content is so invaluable. I feel very lucky to learn from them. 😊
You guys have got to do this againnnn😂😂 this was really fun to watch
For sure!! More after-dark videos to come :)
I really love these discussions so much! Thank you Joyce for posting this.
You are so welcome! Glad you like them. 😊
its so funny to see their fi , they are like 'this is my experience' yaaaaa yaaaa for me 'my experience is' yaaaa yaa i feel the same 'my experience with this is'
lollll very fi talk
Hi JOYCE, great vid as usual! This was excellent material. Thanks to the cast for being game. Got a long & serious-mode comment though & hoping to Ni organize this one: ✌️😁
- The pattern i'm seeing in this type group interview is friction. Instead of being complimentary, precisely because they all have the same fxns, it ends up in a competition of space or stack ranking because they are arranged differently for each of the type, including the earlier vid where KC was.
- When JOYCE asks a question, the one who answers feels that he/she might offend the others because his/her dominant function serves a totally different 'treatment' of the same fxns relative to the other 3.
. I think that the seeming tension may have registered past or low signal on Joyce's radar as an Fe user because it's more of an "Fi conviction" thing. Hence, when one gives an answer or an assessment of what's going on, (for lack of a better term) the "tyrant Te" becomes hard not just on the individual per se but everybody else as well (referring to just the 4). Therefore the Fi internal struggle was unable to find a remedy &/or resolution in the competing external Te structure.
- I'm guessing that if Joyce gets one of the other type group where Ti-Fe dichotomy is present, it would be an equally heated intellectual discussion, if I may say, of whose right or who knows better for the tribe's harmony. I say this because I observed similar & familiar dynamics with the 5 INTP's video at least in my estimation.
- As they say, the Introverted functions tends to pull reality in while the extroverted ones pulls that reality out. John has lots of energy to spare while Michael was conserving them. The tug-of-war was real though. Furthermore, the Judging fxn/Decider dichotomy/coins becomes the evident source of 'self-assurance' in this social exchange. Te being aware of the power structure and Fi defending the integrity of the internal structure.
- Finally, for "Te's sake", what seemed to be missing here was role designation. It's got to be very clear for Te users otherwise the Fi will not be able to adjust and comfortably find it's safe space. This was the reason, i should say, Sheila's Fi pointed this out as that 'invisible force' that was making her nervous. Te users feel at ease when the structure arranges them accordingly. I can say this having all these 4 in my family.
- Btw,
INTJ me😁1w9 = claims to know everything but not doing anything
ESFP brother = we fistfight alot almost killing each other back then
ISFP sister = has a very sharp tongue when angry but the sweetest
ENTJ mother = the commander
---> Peace guys! ✌️✌️✌️💪👍
John’s roofie story is interesting. I’m glad the TH-cam algorithm recommended this channel to me! Love hearing about how everyone’s respective biology handles the same situation differently.
I'm glad the TH-cam algorithm brought you here, Mo Poppins. 😊
Hope you enjoy your stay :)
Would you like to talk more about it in light of the functions?
Sheila is so effortlessly stylish! I think someone said that Gwen Stefani (another consummate fashionista) is the same personality type?
Her style is SO great!! A beauty for sure. Yes, Gwen Stefani is most likely an ISFP.
This was such a fun panel! I could have watched for another hour. Lol.
When Joyce said she needs extroverts to probe to help her communicate I found that actually really moving and could totally relate.. I noticed that it made Michael very emotional for a moment too.
For Michael to be honest the first thing came up to my mind when i first saw him was “ sis i like this dude , i mean he’s actually gives a good vibe or special vibe i can put it in words hehh , i even send the video to one of my friends , and ask him about the one’s who is wearing glasses !! And she told me the same thing , i mean all the intjs that were in the videos were nice ,but for some reason you can actually feel his presences , maybe that’s why there’s a hate comments? They felt what they say and just wrote it down ! Whatever it was good or bad , i talked a lot sorry for that and for my bad English too hhh ,
This was so fun to watch! And all such lovely people!
Would be even lovelier with you there! 🧡
Interesting convo. When you guys were talking about people who say mean stuff just to "throw it out there", that made me consider the way I speak sometimes. I remembered it this morning when I read the following verse in Ephesians 4:29 "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen."
That's a fantastic quote from Ephesians. 🙂 It's so great I'm writing it down. Thank you, Professor Buddy!!
I think of that verse often before I speak, but not always! Lol a work in progress
1:04:46 i gasped
You should do a type talk video with 2-4 blast lasts; EXXP or IXXJ ; or EXXJ ; would like there to be more discussions on blast differentiation from first to last in how it is experienced by those typed with it (vs. in text form).
Also 10000% agree on the INTJ energy management, I've had a long history with stimulants as well; and also had adrenal fatigue. Something Dave has spoken about with INTJ's.
I Love this conversation guys, thanks all of you! So many insight from all 4! :)
And my fellow Ni-doms, I relate a lot! Around min 50, "Political" and consciousness stuff, 100% with you.
1:00:05. I knew she was heading up to saying " Wash over me ". Love it
Michael:
Last video: "I like to be assaulted by strobe lights."
...
This video: "I like to assault other people with strobe lights."
Michael is the original horror moving statue. :D
I love this talk
I’m less afraid of being around ESFPs now. John is lovely. -intj female
1:16:10 An analogy that came to mind is a sudoku board. For me it's rarely linear. The difficulty of the task determines how many boxes are pre filled with the numbers. The whole thing doesn't need to be finished to start, just enough. The ones left blank are usually discernible by default or easy to figure in the moment.
I set Tile for a living. Most people set and cut as they go. I like to measure and cut as much as I can until I hit a point where it might be off if I continue, Then I'll start. It makes it easier by not having to get up and down on my knees all day.
Loved this conversation! Lots of points that I related to.
Michael - you mentioned needing to conserve your energy and not having enough. I feel the exact opposite. Like I have too much energy and I need to find ways to expel it throughout the day.
John - you mentioned being told you were "too much", that’s been the most common criticism I get. "Too much, too intense". But John seems good with people, that is an area which I tend to struggle.
Sheila was on an ISFP video and they were all talking about how others thought they had a calm or relaxing energy. I feel the exact opposite, like I bring the uptight and nervous energy.
The biggest thing that I related to is when Sheila was talking about Se and how it’s her happy place. I 100% relate. I call it "Se drunk", it’s pure bliss.
I’m curious how each type feels/reacts to internal pressure verses outer pressure. When Sheila talked about being competitive I was curious. I’m very sensitive to pressure. I hate feeling pressure by "the world". I become stubborn, defensive and insecure. I’m not normally competitive with others. I am very internally motivated and feel internal pressure. I feel like this is somehow connected to my Fi wanting to be free to be me without the constraints or expectations of The Tribe.
I’m also curious how each type sees themselves with respect to rebellion. Going with what others want verses what they want.
I’m also interested in how each of these types relate to anxiety. I know that depression was touched on in one of the videos, but not anxiety. I would think anxiety would be tied more to our extroverted function with depression being more tied to our introverted functions.
I still can’t tell my function stack (but I’m fairly sure I’m on the Se/Ni, Te/Fi axis). In my youth I typed as an ENTJ. In middle adulthood i typed as INFJ (surprising lol!). I thought for sure I was Ni dom. I am very internally focused and have never been very social or been really good with people. I’m happy by myself for days, especially if I have lots to do and can be outside walking, hiking, kayaking, etc. At this point I’m more confused then clear about what I’m doing in a saviour or demon state.
Fantastic conversations! Now THIS is my kinda party! :-) Regarding the political discussion, I'm with the Lefties. Enough said there, otherwise it could be a week long conversation. Regarding the Se, Sheila talked about Se happening to her while John talked about stepping into Se. I think what they are getting at is passive Se (smelling a rose, feeling the breeze in your hair, enjoying a good aria or Metallica or Fleetwood Mac song, etc.) VS active Se (which is strenuous and requires more energy such as sports or physical labor). I find that people with low Se tend to prefer passive Se while people with high Se seem to be drawn towards active Se.
As an INTJ, I am in that camp as well and just feel so much joy engaging in passive Se (music, nature, etc.). But I tend to avoid the really active Se. When I was younger, I was pretty athletic and even now I do enjoy hiking but I'm never going to have a rock-climbing or surfing hobby. I DO know that there is joy in that physical exertion and feeling the vitality of your body and I remember loving that feeling back when I was a gymnast and dancer in my youth but as a matter of routine, that Se expends way too much energy that I don't want to take away from my Ni. I do agree it was fun though. Sometimes I think I'll take up tennis as a way to get back into active Se.
Active Se vs Passive Se - Interesting differentiation!! :) Yea, I'm trying to get more into my body, and it's really grounding. Integrating that lower Se is quite nice and balancing. I would recommend it to everyone
Great vid guys. Thanks for sharing your sides & cognitoes. Ni-Ti (Fe) Joyce, Se-Te (Fi) John, Fi-Ni (Se) Sheila, & Ni-Fi (Te) Michael. The ennea extras from John were also appriciated.
Joyce, you mentioned being a 6. Would that be the counterphobic 6 by any chance?
Tarik (INFJ)
Thank you Sunrays! I'm a 6 sp 😊 how about you?
@@JoyceMeng22 Hey Joyce. It seems I'm a counterphobic 6, which means an aggressive or SX 1st, with a SP 2nd , & a SO blindspot.
For Micheal at around1:03:00 how about coming out of a moving and going, "That was weird!! 😃👏👍👍"
Occasionally, there's a time in life where a certain amount of "Screw It" develops.
If left unchecked, it could develop into Ni-hilistic Screw It.
I'm an INTJ 5w4 and after all these videos I can say that Michael is my kindred spirit
M has such a nice smile and teeth...
As an ENFP 5w4 I do both, Perdue and control sensory as well as slow down and let it wash over me. How interesting. Ex: tree rope obstacle courses and holding a hot coffee, laying under the snugly blanket, reading a book, listening to the birds chirp as the white snow glass softly on a cold day (pulled away by the thought of how baby birds survive in such cold weather . 10 degrees and less). I love it all! Planning holiday celebrations, getting into the cooking and taste etc, and then sitting back and watching conversation and people enjoying each other’s company while I snuggle a cuddly baby. 💕🤗🥰💕. Life is a beautiful playground.
@Joyce Meng, I love your REAL question, aka, “Are you a gentlemen or an asshole?” Finally. 💗
INTJ here ngl I would love to go to the theatre alone lmao
I'd fucking love it
With regards to 4th slot Se that you guys were talking about near the end of this, I don't think it's that it's weak or unobservant, I think it's actually very perceptive and tuned in... it's just that incoming Se info tends to trigger Ni, which then suppresses Se in favor of gaining an Ni understanding. As an Ni dom, I tend to think the really important/relevant info is found in the Ni insights - which is debatable, and a preference. Whether that's true or not is mostly situationally dependent.
It is perceptive and tuned in when in Se mode! I find that however when I'm pursuing a Ni trail of thought, I momentarily suppress the Se in favor of analyzing the idea I'm having in all its depth.
It was getting late so I might've misspoken in the video! But yes, I agree with your points legendzfall. :)
@@JoyceMeng22 I think Ni suppressing Se happens even at a subconscious or pre-conscious level - so even if we're not aware of the Ni process, it may still be re-routing awareness and processing power away from the sensory info that is coming in. That is just my personal view on it, I could be wrong.
Sometimes I think that the distinction between feminine something and masculine something is so unhealthy. I hope we are at a changing point in time where it is okay for men to be caring, taking on the main caring responsibilities in a family for instance - and for women to also be able to be less caring, less cooperative, etc.
I'm pretty sure it's completely ok for men and women to behave in those ways, in fact it's heavily encouraged for people to break gender norms now. However I still don't think there's a problem with observing a general pattern of masculine/feminine in nature. Obviously it's fine if a man acts in a more "feminine" way but it's understood that men have less of a natural inclination to be that way.
@@Slippernips Yeah, I can see your point - but while I do believe in biological inclinations I think that the role of nurture can't be highlighted enough.
I know that a lot of women are describing themselves as masculine - just because they are being who they are (confident, unapologetic), which is pretty absurd to me.
We are definitely on our way as a society (In the western world at least), but we there are still a lot of way to cover wrt. gender expectations. And in this regard, I think ascribing female and male characteristics to people are counterproductive - because those words are not neutral. They are charged with many connotations from many hundreds of years - and feelings on top of that. I mean, we spend our teens trying to live up to the gender expectations set by our culture (boys become men and girl become women) - and of course that attaches a lot of feelings to the words "masculine" and "feminine".
And I think that ascribing active and confident characteristics to a masculine trait is just horrible. Not for men of course. But it reinforces how we see the default woman as not confident, less capable, less active.
@@aniokay Nurture is highlighted constantly. If anything, the pendulum has started to swing the other way where the influence of biology is disregarded as much as possible and everything is seen potentially as some kind of artificially-imposed social construct.
If a woman wants to describe herself as "masculine" solely because she displays traits of leadership/confidence I think that is silly and there's not much reason for someone to do that. Perhaps some women feel good about identifying as masculine and it's not necessarily a bad thing to them.
In this context (Objective Personality) people seem to just be using the masculine/feminine terms to describe different expressions of functions in a useful way. If anything it shows how some womens' cognitive development can cause them to present in traditionally "masculine" ways and vice versa for men. And that we are not all the same.
I'm not sure I agree that many people "spend their lives trying to live up to gender expectations" to a significant degree, especially in a highly modernized country like the US. If you think there's a problem with boys growing up to become men and girls growing up to be women then...im not sure what to say to that.
I would have to argue that these "masculine" and "feminine" stereotypes cemented over tens of thousands of years do in fact stem from innate biological differences between the sexes. Generally speaking, men ARE indeed more "confident"(not the best word to describe it but whatever) and "active" and, in some areas, most notably physical strength, more capable. The real problem is that "feminine" traits are currently undervalued and seen by foolish people as signs of weakness or somehow less valuable than being able to "take charge" or "be successful". "Feminine" traits also cause you to be more capable in certain areas, just not usually areas that tend to make a lot of MONEY, which is probably why our society doesnt seem to value them anymore.
I see plenty of women who are more active than me. I see a lot more who are less active. I see plenty of women who are more confident than me. Because they are ACTUALLY confident, they dont seem to be the type to cry about whether they might be considered "masculine" or not. As far as capability, obviously both sexes will have their own unique strengths and weaknesses.
At the end of the day, any person you are interacting with will be more confident in some areas, more capable in some areas, more active in certain situations and in different ways (mentally/physically) and I think everyone recognizes this without necessarily ascribing "masculine" or "feminine" to their behavior.
Finally you seem to be under the mistaken impression that if it was ACTUALLY ok for men to be "feminine" or women to be "masculine" and our society had finally progressed enough toward gender neutrality, that you would necessarily see more men being stay at home fathers and more women being the breadwinner in the family or something. I basically argue that all of these things are perfectly ok and socially acceptable now, and that they are happening more frequently, but people are still just mostly choosing to align with their biological tendencies because it feels more natural to them. Sometimes I get the feeling that certain people won't be satisfied until any variance in expression between biological men and women is eliminated.
That Se drunk driving is not weird, muscle memory is much better at deciding physical stuff and it communicates with info memory anyway...
Chocolate covered espresso beans are pretty good.
I've tried those at Starbucks. 🙂 Good stuff 👍
I can relate a lot to the whole cancel culture issue. It’s so much worse this last week with big tech companies censoring the President and trying to bully other smaller platforms to do the same.
Yes, that was my last day on Twitter. Deleted it instantly. Not because im pro Trump, just because im pro freedom of speech
1:01:14 The exact moment when each person had to consider all the others as sexual beings. You guys said something about subtext? lol
John, in general, now that it is in our face and we have history to learn from, what can be done to have better outcomes? Respect, right? But when power and mental illnesses like narcissistic god complexes come into play, again, what then?
aaarrhh now we are getting somewhere ...
55.44 YES!
Must be an INTJ thing, because I spent my later teens and early 20s on drugs and drunk too. Very reckless.
Yeah, we generally don't have a great relationship with these things.
21 year old INTJ, I been trying to stop doing weed for a long time now. I’ve tried like 50 times.
@@mbtisocialclub I started partying like a rock star at about 15, and then at around 25 I just woke up one day and was done with it. Not even sure why. I wish I had some better advice. They say to kick a bad habit, you have to replace it with a different(hopefully good) habit. Maybe find a good woman who won't put up with it haha
legendzfall having Ni is a funny thing because I understand addiction/abuse, I know where it’s going and I know I should be doing something to replace it but yet I do not do what I know I must do
@@mbtisocialclub NAC, DLPA etc my friend!
the up there group wants the split down there its what they been working for..
Nicotine lozenges - what are they? Stimulants? I’m not a smoker but this INFJ is intrigued...
Is John a Cancer? (Zodiac)
They’re like nicotine gum but in Tic Tac form.
Michael Y. Interesting 🧐 do they work like stimulants in that they give you a high?
They do give a nicotine buzz. Nothing incredible, don’t get too excited!
Taurus
@Sheila w, Did you notice the contrast in your competitive comment to the woman you played tennis with (pointing out her in competitiveness/flaws/weakness) vs when someone pointing out yours? ie..., “If you don’t have anything nice to say the I wish you’d just shit the F up?
All our ego that tends toward blindness to ourself and judgment towards others. We just don’t always hear it until we fall upon hard times.
@Micheal Y - totally hate the subtextual elephant in the room. Ugh!
“Theres alot of Fi there” yes this is exactly what I have been thinking. I was just reading Dario's new book and reviewing the pitfalls of Fi leads.They sounded exactly like what we are seeing in all of these protests:
“Being forgetful of having heard or seen something because it doesnt match your beliefs. “ “React to an injustice in an all or nothing way without being open to negotiation or to seeing from another perspective. As a result you disrespect them as human beings and miss out on ways you could have cooperated.” “Get caught up in a cause without checking facts, noticing consequences, or thinking things through. Then you are disappointed when the outcome differs or is even the opposite of what you want.” “Over estimate the worth of emotions and idealism over scientific tools, philosophical principles, or business methods...”
Well said! Seeing the out of control F functions taking such precedence in western societies is part of the reason I tend to be leery of those functions altogether.
So weird when people think "Cancel culture" is a recent thing. Lmao. I'm also an INTJ and it's funny where Michael is coming from on the social structures. I agree on parts but not on other parts. Was surprised by Johns take. He's completely right about the last 50 years. Sheila... The "I have Black friends." Really?
Ty Lavell such a straw man reply, not referring to my whole context. actually some are my nephews that are black, and they have quite an opinion on all that is happening and yes, what is wrong with having black friends and mentioning them when talking about what is happening in society right now.
What cancel culture is now being called has only been around for 5-6 years. Yes, throughout history people were killed, very different from how people are being cancelled now was what I was referring to.
@@sheandg Cancel Culture is not a recent thing. You can go all the way to Jesus being cancelled by the Romans or Socrates being cancelled by the Greeks in his city state. You can even say Martin Luther King was cancelled. It is human nature to call out people for behaviors that are deemed malevolent. These examples ended with death and to say that cancel culture is recent is just short sighted at best and ignorant at worst. This is analogous to the police brutality that keeps being exposed today. Just because you can more easily see it doesn't mean it didn't exist before. The internet and the platforms that allow us to share information has just exposed people to what was already happening.
First it was your Black friends and now it's your nephews. Moving the goalposts eh? Regardless, the opinion of people from a third party is not something empirical. Anecdotal, and possibly made up, evidence to support a position is not a solid foundation. Also, I'm not debating you so my comment on the "I have a Black friend" isn't an argument. Using a phrase that is known to be used by racists to not appear racist has a long history. I'd recommend in the future to make your argument without tokenizing a Black person to give you some validity.
Ty Lavell if you listen to my words I was referring to my “friends” nephews and friends I have spoken to said they have never dealt with racism. I do have some black friend that have, I was using it in context that there are both side to every situation and that is what the convo was also about. Giving a voice to all sides. Racism exists of course, I have dealt with it myself, happens across the board. If I would have just said my “friends” have never dealt with racism everyone would have assumed I was speaking about white people I had to use the adjective black to eliminate confusion. Simple as that.
@@sheandg ok Sheila. Sounds good. Haha
@Ty Lavell can I ask what surprised you about my take?
Five going to seven looks like pleasure-seeking behaviours.
No psychedelics mentioned, when speaking about mind altering substances? 10/10 disappointed :'(
Briefly @ 11:09 but I could have gone on
“Disappointment”