This should be a book. And, this job/career progression is universal. I work in higher education. You just outlined my faculty colleagues to the T. I'm 57 years old and am going to try to enter the summer guiding pool in 2024 (burnout in academia is real too). I hope to obtain the level of Mule. Great video. You should do more of this type of video, though I like all of them so far.
Zach - I've been a commercial guide for over 25 years, and this flow chart (besides being hilarious) is LEGENDARY. So right on. I had never tried to put words to it before, but you nailed it. I hope to become a MASTER someday - I would add that always trying to learn new things is SO IMPORTANT, whether you have been guiding for one year or for twenty. Thanks for putting this together - I hope as many guides as possible can see this and learn from it.
I have only boated privately myself. This was a great video to watch! It's interesting to take a look into the world of professional guiding. Thanks for sharing.
Awesome video. I'm going to think about this as I'm heading back to the outfitter to work this summer after several years of working a "normal" job and private boating. I tend to keep my distance from the shaka bros and alphas. I used to feel like I didn't fit the description of a raft guide because I'm not the type to be loud, wild, and seek attention. Over the years I've figured out that those qualities aren't necessary for being a good guide. Some people like a conservative and restrained guide who makes them feel safe.
@@GearGarageTV In my experience most people who sign up for a river trip want: -To be entertained. -Eat enormous amounts of rich food. -Get blitzed along a river bank. The order of these desires may vary with the individual.
I so rarely leave comments. But this video is freaking hilarious and spot on. I used to be an outfitter and moved out of the industry for the corporate world. I made the decision this year to start guiding again for the 2021 season. I’m definitely going to keep this info in mind in regards to how I represent myself.
Those markers are the freaking best! Coming from a metal fabricator, they write on anything. Over oil, dirt, grime, and almost never clog up or dry out. 10x better then a Sharpe. Living next to the Americans in Cali, a lot of buddies became guides as I didn't get into whitewater till my late 20's and seen the multiple stages my buddies went through. Pretty spot on.
My experience as a guide gave me the impression that, to become one of the upper level cool kids, you needed to: -Smoke a bale of dope. -Become a functioning alcoholic. Compared to the other guiding work I did (Climbing, ski guide in US and Canada), I'd say it is not as difficult and much, much more forgiving. That's an opinion based on fifty years of running rivers in the US, Alaska, and Canadian north. My advice: Forget guiding. Get some skills so you can make some real money and run rivers without dragging along a bunch of tourists. I saw a bumper sticker recently: "Nobody cares that you're a river guide". Like to get me one of those for my truck.
I've only been boating for six years. I had a neat experience my first time rowing the Wild and Scenic section of the Rogue. One trip as a passenger. An older guy that runs water bigger than I, said, new guy get's the groover. Miffed because I spend my days as a plumber and not wanting to deal with that. I said what I said and his reply to a buddy was, can this guy even row a boat. I carried the groover. I carried all of the heavy weight to and from boats to help out. I am twenty years younger and I feel its my duty to help out. After running rainey falls and only touching a rock through blossom we became friends. We both learned a lot about each other on that trip. It's the beauty of it to me. A good tip, when someone celebrates your success with champagne, don't open your eyes, its burns like no other. Great Video, Thanks for sharing your advice!
Great video series! Zach! I especially enjoyed the insights you shared on the legend path. I loved guiding and advanced pretty quickly, but eventually left out of frustration and burnout with all the shaka bros and alphas, many of which I trained as newbys. Most didn't last much longer that a season or two. We often spoke about these types "running their own trip within the trip." They were more concerned about focusing atteniton on themselves and often came with big risk profiles that were completely innapropriate for our guests. So they ended up not being invited back. I later switched to private boating and that was a hard adjustment after working with a cadre of pro guides.
This whole thing is great but I love your last line.. I don't think its any better than a Sharpie and it might be worse.. but it looks cool so I'm in to it! ...so funny!
This is a great framework. My dad was a guide for most of his life and a raft guide for a lot of that. He may have been an Legend or at least an Alpha. I grew up rafting and kayaking but never became a guide, though I thought about it. I've seen your framework play out a number of times on private trips with friends who are guides, and their guide friends. ....So many Alphas...... So annoying to deal with the egos of the bro-bras who think they know it all because they guided here or there or whatever, and talk incessantly about the one big wave on the Canyon or the Selway or whatever, but who can't "be here now" and have to have things exactly how they were taught to do things. There are a 100 ways to skin a cat and most of them are just as good as the other. I'm open to learning new things but also resistant to needlessly obsessive practices that don't contribute to the trip on whole. I'm glad to see that the kayak guiding culture can do a little self reflection and I hope that it catches on amongst the masses.
Zach, you're hilarious, and pretty spot on. My experience as a guide and a hiring manager aligns with your theories closely. Alphas and Shaka bros are a difficult bunch, ones, as manager, I avoided at all costs. As a guide I sort of enjoyed them as entertainment. I would ague these Alphas are actually betas who have moved up the food chain due to experience and years of service. As betas they are always bickering and scrapping to establish their place. In my mind true alphas are just that, Alpha. We don't bicker, and scrap, and if we do its a short fight. Keep creating content. Nice diversion from work!
I worked as a river guide for several years in different parts of the US (East Coast and Pacific Northwest) and also internationally. I think you really nailed this! Though, there might be one more category, which is a Tenderfoot that think they are First Class, i,.e. they suffer from Dunning Kruger syndrome (a cognitive bias in which people with low ability at a task overestimate their ability). There is definitely no shortage of egos among river guides, which is one of the more annoying parts of the job. I ended up leaving the industry because I realized I'm not really a people person and working with guests was too taxing for my personality. I am at heart an introvert. I'm curious how other introverted guides deal with the intense social interaction of multi-day trips. Would love to hear your thoughts. P.S. I have really enjoyed your show. Thanks!
I'm an introvert too but I do like people. River guiding takes all types of people so that guides match the personalities of the guests. If all river guides are Type A, extrovert, centers of attention trips would be weird. I've added "Guiding as an Intovert" as a future show topic.
Also, every guide overestimates their abilities - not just tenderfoot. Every First Class thinks they're an Alpha and every Alpha thinks they're a Legend.
@@GearGarageTV This is an excellent point. I think part of the job of a company owner / river manager is to try to schedule a team of guides with complimentary personality types - it's OK to have a Type A extrovert or two, and also OK to have a few introverts, but you want a healthy mix of personalities so that the guide team gels with the client group as much as possible. Especially on longer multi-day trips. This is (obviously) easier said than done - most of the time you don't have the luxury of having to think this carefully about which guide team would be best for which particular trip, due to limited guide availability and overall scheduling logistics.
My neighbor for many years was Lorna Corson, who's guided the GC for nearly forty years. She is introverted to the extreme. She has maintained upper level guide status, including chapters in books about the Canyon, because of her ability, as a 100 lb woman, to read water and place a heavily loaded raft where it needs to be.
Zach, hypothetically, if I had a friend who thinks he may have been stuck in the 'Shaka Bro' eddy for 20 years, how do I (I mean my friend) recover after so long?
@@GearGarageTV Didn't I see on the board an "Enlightenment Chamber" as a way out? -- is that a big eddy in Cali somewhere that so traps and humbles a bro that he gives up his evil ways?
HAHA dude I'm loving your videos... Is the Master level a place you can't move out of? I believe I've seen a Master who I'd move back down into the Alpha due to 'burn-out'... For the exact reasons you stated... Getting drunk and talking shop politics on the boat... on the same river you mentioned... ruins the vibe of the trip
Excellent attempt at trying to formalize guide progression I paddled guided for HDRO Maupin back in The Day. Shocka Bros everyone of them even the ladies. Made it hard to stay interested. The undeserving arrogance. Was more than I could bare chest puffing gets Old quick. Arrogance a quides worst protagonist Ski patrol has the same problem
Omg. These videos are the best. Approaching legend status. So glad you’re training the next generation of river guides.
I'm glad you like it
As someone who is an aspiring private boater, that has only been on a handful of guided trip, I find this fascinating! Thank you for sharing!
This should be a book. And, this job/career progression is universal. I work in higher education. You just outlined my faculty colleagues to the T. I'm 57 years old and am going to try to enter the summer guiding pool in 2024 (burnout in academia is real too). I hope to obtain the level of Mule. Great video. You should do more of this type of video, though I like all of them so far.
Zach - I've been a commercial guide for over 25 years, and this flow chart (besides being hilarious) is LEGENDARY. So right on. I had never tried to put words to it before, but you nailed it. I hope to become a MASTER someday - I would add that always trying to learn new things is SO IMPORTANT, whether you have been guiding for one year or for twenty. Thanks for putting this together - I hope as many guides as possible can see this and learn from it.
I'm glad to hear you like it. It helps me understand where some guides are coming from.
I was watching a video about perimeter lines, and this came on next. Im dying..... this is hilarious, and mostly on point
Thanks
I have only boated privately myself. This was a great video to watch! It's interesting to take a look into the world of professional guiding. Thanks for sharing.
Glad you liked it!
Digging threw your back log is gold thanks for the entertainment.
Awesome video. I'm going to think about this as I'm heading back to the outfitter to work this summer after several years of working a "normal" job and private boating. I tend to keep my distance from the shaka bros and alphas. I used to feel like I didn't fit the description of a raft guide because I'm not the type to be loud, wild, and seek attention. Over the years I've figured out that those qualities aren't necessary for being a good guide. Some people like a conservative and restrained guide who makes them feel safe.
Most people want guides that make them feel safe
@@GearGarageTV In my experience most people who sign up for a river trip want:
-To be entertained.
-Eat enormous amounts of rich food.
-Get blitzed along a river bank.
The order of these desires may vary with the individual.
How could Pete's Meats not be a sponsor? Love your vids, Zack. Thanks for doing them!
I so rarely leave comments. But this video is freaking hilarious and spot on. I used to be an outfitter and moved out of the industry for the corporate world. I made the decision this year to start guiding again for the 2021 season. I’m definitely going to keep this info in mind in regards to how I represent myself.
Those markers are the freaking best! Coming from a metal fabricator, they write on anything. Over oil, dirt, grime, and almost never clog up or dry out. 10x better then a Sharpe. Living next to the Americans in Cali, a lot of buddies became guides as I didn't get into whitewater till my late 20's and seen the multiple stages my buddies went through. Pretty spot on.
Yep I love those markers too. They look cool. It's good to know the work better too!
My experience as a guide gave me the impression that, to become one of the upper level cool kids, you needed to:
-Smoke a bale of dope.
-Become a functioning alcoholic.
Compared to the other guiding work I did (Climbing, ski guide in US and Canada), I'd say it is not as difficult and much, much more forgiving.
That's an opinion based on fifty years of running rivers in the US, Alaska, and Canadian north.
My advice: Forget guiding. Get some skills so you can make some real money and run rivers without dragging along a bunch of tourists.
I saw a bumper sticker recently: "Nobody cares that you're a river guide". Like to get me one of those for my truck.
There are some river guides who are professionals and make really good money
This is great
I've only been boating for six years. I had a neat experience my first time rowing the Wild and Scenic section of the Rogue. One trip as a passenger. An older guy that runs water bigger than I, said, new guy get's the groover. Miffed because I spend my days as a plumber and not wanting to deal with that. I said what I said and his reply to a buddy was, can this guy even row a boat. I carried the groover. I carried all of the heavy weight to and from boats to help out. I am twenty years younger and I feel its my duty to help out. After running rainey falls and only touching a rock through blossom we became friends. We both learned a lot about each other on that trip. It's the beauty of it to me. A good tip, when someone celebrates your success with champagne, don't open your eyes, its burns like no other. Great Video, Thanks for sharing your advice!
Great video series! Zach! I especially enjoyed the insights you shared on the legend path. I loved guiding and advanced pretty quickly, but eventually left out of frustration and burnout with all the shaka bros and alphas, many of which I trained as newbys. Most didn't last much longer that a season or two. We often spoke about these types "running their own trip within the trip." They were more concerned about focusing atteniton on themselves and often came with big risk profiles that were completely innapropriate for our guests. So they ended up not being invited back. I later switched to private boating and that was a hard adjustment after working with a cadre of pro guides.
This whole thing is great but I love your last line..
I don't think its any better than a Sharpie and it might be worse.. but it looks cool so I'm in to it! ...so funny!
In Health care we call that a Theoretical Frame Work!!! Nice job; now publish this and Guides will study your guide framework. Legend stuff
This is a great framework. My dad was a guide for most of his life and a raft guide for a lot of that. He may have been an Legend or at least an Alpha. I grew up rafting and kayaking but never became a guide, though I thought about it. I've seen your framework play out a number of times on private trips with friends who are guides, and their guide friends. ....So many Alphas...... So annoying to deal with the egos of the bro-bras who think they know it all because they guided here or there or whatever, and talk incessantly about the one big wave on the Canyon or the Selway or whatever, but who can't "be here now" and have to have things exactly how they were taught to do things. There are a 100 ways to skin a cat and most of them are just as good as the other. I'm open to learning new things but also resistant to needlessly obsessive practices that don't contribute to the trip on whole. I'm glad to see that the kayak guiding culture can do a little self reflection and I hope that it catches on amongst the masses.
J.R. Weir is a river legend.
Zach, you're hilarious, and pretty spot on. My experience as a guide and a hiring manager aligns with your theories closely. Alphas and Shaka bros are a difficult bunch, ones, as manager, I avoided at all costs. As a guide I sort of enjoyed them as entertainment. I would ague these Alphas are actually betas who have moved up the food chain due to experience and years of service. As betas they are always bickering and scrapping to establish their place. In my mind true alphas are just that, Alpha. We don't bicker, and scrap, and if we do its a short fight. Keep creating content. Nice diversion from work!
Interesting thoughts. Thanks for commenting!
I worked as a river guide for several years in different parts of the US (East Coast and Pacific Northwest) and also internationally. I think you really nailed this! Though, there might be one more category, which is a Tenderfoot that think they are First Class, i,.e. they suffer from Dunning Kruger syndrome (a cognitive bias in which people with low ability at a task overestimate their ability). There is definitely no shortage of egos among river guides, which is one of the more annoying parts of the job. I ended up leaving the industry because I realized I'm not really a people person and working with guests was too taxing for my personality. I am at heart an introvert. I'm curious how other introverted guides deal with the intense social interaction of multi-day trips. Would love to hear your thoughts. P.S. I have really enjoyed your show. Thanks!
I'm an introvert too but I do like people. River guiding takes all types of people so that guides match the personalities of the guests. If all river guides are Type A, extrovert, centers of attention trips would be weird. I've added "Guiding as an Intovert" as a future show topic.
Also, every guide overestimates their abilities - not just tenderfoot. Every First Class thinks they're an Alpha and every Alpha thinks they're a Legend.
@@GearGarageTV This is an excellent point. I think part of the job of a company owner / river manager is to try to schedule a team of guides with complimentary personality types - it's OK to have a Type A extrovert or two, and also OK to have a few introverts, but you want a healthy mix of personalities so that the guide team gels with the client group as much as possible. Especially on longer multi-day trips. This is (obviously) easier said than done - most of the time you don't have the luxury of having to think this carefully about which guide team would be best for which particular trip, due to limited guide availability and overall scheduling logistics.
My neighbor for many years was Lorna Corson, who's guided the GC for nearly forty years. She is introverted to the extreme.
She has maintained upper level guide status, including chapters in books about the Canyon, because of her ability, as a 100 lb woman, to read water and place a heavily loaded raft where it needs to be.
Zach, hypothetically, if I had a friend who thinks he may have been stuck in the 'Shaka Bro' eddy for 20 years, how do I (I mean my friend) recover after so long?
It sounds like your friend is hopeless. I'd suggest he stick with the Shaka Bro Lifestyle (SBL)!
@@GearGarageTV Didn't I see on the board an "Enlightenment Chamber" as a way out? -- is that a big eddy in Cali somewhere that so traps and humbles a bro that he gives up his evil ways?
HAHA dude I'm loving your videos... Is the Master level a place you can't move out of? I believe I've seen a Master who I'd move back down into the Alpha due to 'burn-out'... For the exact reasons you stated... Getting drunk and talking shop politics on the boat... on the same river you mentioned... ruins the vibe of the trip
Oh yes you can definitely drop out of master with burnout. A true master should be above that but nobody's perfect.
Excellent attempt at trying to formalize guide progression
I paddled guided for HDRO Maupin back in The Day. Shocka Bros everyone of them even the ladies. Made it hard to stay interested. The undeserving arrogance. Was more than I could bare chest puffing gets Old quick. Arrogance a quides worst protagonist
Ski patrol has the same problem
You nailed it. I've lived in Jackson Hole all my life and have known generations of trollers. Arrogance, substance abuse, failed marriages.