What's happened to this "driving a car upsidedown in a tunnel" project? You plugged the heck out of it and then we haven't seen a video in over 7 months.
1:50 those people rolling their eyes at "efficiency" in motorsport have no idea what endurance racing actually is. Pitting less for fuel is very important to win there.
@@henryhallam5270 It can if it's hydrogen electric, the gas is more expensive but the car is lighter, can make the same power and fuels up about as quick as an ICEU car.
I mean F1 has been restricting their cars for nearly 30 years now. Give it a couple more year and they're up to speed, at that point they also will be limited by safety.
@@Alan-ww8vi Formula E cars wont be faster than Formula 1 cars (whenever FE cars reach that point) cuz the FIA will restrict their speed for safety reasons, the same thing happen to current F1 cars
Define 'advantage' It makes driver skill even less important than it currently is. Most people want to see the best drivers win, and illustrate their superiority visually. Are you sure it's really an advantage, and the grand scheme of motorsports?
@@procatprocat9647, in this case the car wins, and why do yall have to whine about different control laws, even with torque vectoring, it doesn't stop you from spinning.
Money money money man, the funding required is insane that's why he did the big push, hoping someone would sponsor him, and even if they said yes there are likely contracts to sort out, possibly NDA's until everything is 100% sorted. I reckon it would be 18 months minimum until we see anything on track best case
to be honest.. i never believed that this will be done its an INSANELY expensive project. I have no idea how he could talk about it like its a simply task that just needs a bit funding. the tunnel alone will cost millions. and then the car developement comes on top. He has to find a billionair to fund this project. its like a feverdream to even have the idea to make this happen. he should rather build his own Formula 3 car or a nice hillclimb / time attack car. Would only cost 1/10 to 1/20ths or even less of the money and could be done in a fraction of time.
With one small motor per wheel, there is no reason to stop at four wheels. Gen 5 cars could have *six* wheels, or possibly even *eight.* More grip is more better!
Grip/friction is typically dimensionless, dependent on the coefficient of friction between two surfaces the normal force and gravity (or down force). I don't think adding more wheels necessarily improves grip.
Would also increase weight. Also wouldn't necessarily increase the grip that much, depends on how the contact patch is affected. There's also a limit to how much power is usable in formula e, the tracks are narrow and adding more wheels also makes a vehicle longer. If they use softer tire compounds with the added surface area it should definitely give more grip. Having more wheels is generally a off-road thing because having more surface area means you don't sink into the dirt so easily. If we only drive the 4 rear wheels it might get crazy regeneration and have really good turn in response. With all wheel steering and torque vectoring especially, then we can power all the wheels with no issues Would be fun with active suspension as well along with the active aero. Active suspension on 8 wheels is amusing.
I still think making it essentially a spec series holds FE back significantly, a true development war would bring the technology on leaps and bounds every year
That’s true, HOWEVER, a big plus of being a spec series is it’s vastly cheaper. And tbh I don’t know how much the teams are willing to spend on it when it doesn’t have a huge monetary return. It’s still a very small sport tbh
Nah it is not, powertrain and suspensions are different, it's more like LMDh in this case, you can have whatever motor in the car, you can have AC, BLDC or even brushed motor, they will monitor the current/voltage drawn make sure equal power and all the inefficiencies you have, comes from your own motor, you still have to do the homework.
@@Dakkyun surely forcing everyone to have the same power is still holding everyone back? And are the power cells spec? Even then it should be de-restricted to encourage a development war
@@callumlaird1195 batteries are spec. But the motors development, suspension development are still open, even at the same power, you'd waste some of it to heat,it's a war to stop this wasting, even if the motors are 95% efficient, If you remove this restriction, they still are limited by the battery because they STILL have to go the distance anyway.
Computer cars for computer audiences, hmm would humans watch 📺 ? Thus the logical destination is no physical sim ERacing… oh wait 😅 and that would be sad, racing is about human drivers not just Tech.. 🤷♂️
crazy idea here, you put swappable batteries on the car. You have choices between bigger but heavier or smaller and lighter pack and you make pit stop where you change de battery for a new one. It's like refueling but different. It would open the opportunities to so many strategies
Nah mate, water cooled batteries and all the piping, plus regen braking is really advanced now you don't need that. You are just looking for theatre, the same reason Michelin left formula 1 after they mandate mandatory pitstops, because michelin wanted to make tires that actually lasts.
Another neat thing you can do with 4 motors is create a slight speed difference between front and rear wheels to cause friction and heat the tires up faster
Sticking with DOT street tires will keep the braking distances long regardless of downforce. The tire can only do so much and when its a street compound tire with low grip all the downforce in the world won't fix it.
You do know they don't actually use road tires right. Bruno Senna sat down with Mr Jww a few years back in an interview on his channel. In it he said they tried a cup 2r on the gen 1 car in early development and just like on the road cars it only lasted about 3 full pace race laps. And lap 2/3 of race run was about 8 seconds slower than lap 1 because the tire was destroyed already and that sometimes it wouldn't make it to the end of a qualifying lap. He said that for Gen 1 Michelin used a modified hard lmp1 compound and put it in the road car mold. They did this so it can have pace( it was quicker around a lap than the cup 2r ) and actually lasted till the pit stop. And they put it into the mold to fit the singular All weather tire image that formula e was looking for. I have no idea what the compound of gen 3 is off the top of my head but I do know that it is bespoke to formula e rn
It's honestly true about the racing in Formula E, it's so much better than Formula 1, to the point I watch it more than I do Formula 1. 100+ overtakes in a single race, cars going 3-wide into a corner, you never, ever see that otherwise.
You see that kinda racing in F2 all the time and even in F1 depending on the track. The biggest problem with FE is the stupid gimmicks like that attack mode and the (thankfully) discontinued fan boost that they need to artificially make the racing “better”. It keeps me from taking them seriously. On top of that they can only race at short tracks without long straights because the car’s battery wouldn’t be able to regen enough to complete a race distance. There’s also the issue of how batteries act over a race distance losing peak power as the batteries get charged and discharged which this guy never talks about in his FE videos. Lots of slow overtakes, many which are aided by gimmicks like attack mode, are a lot more boring than seeing two cars fight for position going through corners at speeds FE can barely reach in a straight line. FE legitimately looks like fancy electric kart racing and not a top level motorsport. I mean it’s funny that they’re talking about reaching F1 levels when when they’re still 6 seconds behind F3 and 1 second slower than FRECA (2022) around Monaco, a circuit that very much plays to the strengths of FE. Not to mention those are literal children driving in F3 and FRECA compared to the much more experienced drivers usually found in FE. Oh and btw compared to F1 they’re 20 seconds slower around a track the F1 cars horribly suited for. So in the end if you’re not only slower than a racing series for teenagers that make 100hp-200hp less but also relying on gimmicks to make the racing exciting, you’re a joke of a motorsport.
@@-._.-._.-Sully-._.-._.- All those things doesn't matter when the racing is still infinitely better than all those series you mentioned. The cars don't have the downforce of those series, meaning overtaking is much easier as you don't get massively slowed down in corners by being behind other cars, leading to a lot more exciting racing. I can only tell you what I (and others) see watching these races. Regardless of what you feel I have never seen so many nailbiting finishes, crazy overtakes and driving in any other Formula racing series.
@@swecreations the racing isn’t better though at all. It’s all artificially created which isn’t racing. I can name at least several F1 races that came down to nailbiter finishes this year. F2 has been an absolute blast to watch this year especially with all the big talent coming through. FE is a bunch of F1 and F2 rejects and it’s not as exciting to watch as say someone like Andrea Kim Antonelli skipping F3 moving up to F2 after completely dominating multiple karting, F4, and FRECA champions. Watching talent like that develop over the season and once he and the team got a handle on the new 2024 reg cars his wins in Silverstone and Hungary were complete master classes able to gap the field by seconds a lap in clean are. Talent like that doesn’t exist in FE. So I’ll go over it again; FE has minimal to no talent, the cars are slower than most every formula feeder series even the ones with less 100-200hp less. And racing is made good through artificial means. You’re not a motorsport racing fan you’re an artificially created entertainment fan. That completely fine just don’t put your self in the same realm as actual motorsports, it’s a glorified karting series. If you where in it for good close racing were you never know who’s gonna win? Have you ever heard of NASCAR or IndyCar? Those are actual racing series that produce everything you want from FE close racing wise without the gimmicks. Honestly I have a feeling you only watch FE and no other motorsport because everything you say you want exists in other series. Oh and one last thing. Speed is an essential element of motorsports so don’t act like it’s not important. You guys get caught into the premise of prioritizing making racing better by slowing down cars which goes against everything motorsport is and was.
It actually doesn't matter at all because FE was never, ever about pure speed, it has always been efficiency, strategy, motor design, and driver's balls to execute the strategy.
If F1 is so adamant on using hybrids why don't they adopt what Williams would have used with the Flywheel Hybrid system from what I've heard that system was smaller and lighter than the current hybrid systems which could see cars being slimmed down drastically in size and weight
And put them in the front, like LMP1 did, honestly all of the solutions F1 needs has been developed by LMP1 golden years 15-16-17, and then they fear audi domination, the one to blame is the manufacturers and FOM here. Such pity.
I never expected Formula E to last this long but fair play. I have to admit the bits of FE Ive seen impressed me with the development of the tech and the racing.
They're going to get super fast cars that just go slowly in a line because they're not allowed to have enough power at the start to have interesting racing
"Not allowed?" Damn Engineers and Scientists who are struggling to extend the limits of technology, but you claim they are disallowing the cars more energy 😂
its fun to see my hood and this crazy little car in your video. i was down there at the old airport when they tested it. i do like your analysis. lucas vision for FE is so cool. Formula E will develop into real life wipeout... that's the best way to differ enough from F1 to stay relevant and get more attention. dont get me wrong / i love good old combustion engine racing / do watch anything from F1 over indy to WEC and GT racing. still i also follow FE also because ther is great driver talent on the grid. so i wish it to be a bettter product. it got much better over the years. still up to now it is an electric substitue . somehow it has to become its own thing to really become a succesfull product for investores and spectators... greetings from duebendorf in Switzerland peace out
great video! The gen 4 cars with 4 wheel drive and active aero and everything sound really cool. But I cant imagine driving them would be very pleasant, or watching them race very exciting.
If Gen 4 goes axial flux motor + planetary gearbox in the wheel, it will mean the motor and brake are separated by just the gearbox - a very compact unit without a drive shaft. Perhaps the motor/gearbox/brake unit could go inboard so it is not damaged in accidents - this would allow the rack and pinion steering, motor, gearbox and brake to go in one package. With little suspension travel, a short, stiff half-shaft should work OK. Vector drive at each wheel would be great to see.
Every time someone talks about differentials, I bring up something that is on my mind for a long time. With it being a mechanical system, a differential always gives resistance. Adjusting a rear diff to mitigate oversteer than must mean that the front actually already has too much grip by default. The differential only mutes it. If it actually increases rotation by itself must mean it is putting out power on its own, which it doesn't. Having an independent system, like a motor per wheel, must be much more efficient, because it doesn't have that mechanical resistance by default. This also means grip can be taken from the front, which can be done many ways and always in favour of efficiency. If I am in any way wrong, please tell me why with references. I am always open and eager to learn.
I think you answered it towards the end. Is FE an experiment, or a racing series? You could throw all the tech upgrades you like at it, but if you want to have it an exciting racing series you need to add more driver input, not take it away with torque vectoring and active aero through each corner. It’s not much of a leap from this to removing the driver altogether. Besides, if FE were so concerned with maximising grip they wouldn’t run grooved tyres.
well from what we learned from that AI race in abu dhabi we have a loong way to go before humans can be raplaced by computers to drive race cars. and i mean F1 had traction control ABS active suspension active aero in the past. 80s and 90s. and i don't see people complain much about that era. and you are making me a bit mad here cus first u say u don't want driver aids. and yet u want FE to have slicks tyres. which by nature makes for better grip and easier to drive....WHAT!?
@@jesperhammarlund300 I never said any such thing - I merely commented on the contradiction in the video suggesting FE were striving for more grip, yet they run grooved tyres.
@@CaptainBlackadder75 if u do some research u would know that they run all weather tyres cus they only have 2 sets per weekend. per driver. this is due to wanting to use minimal rubber to be as green towards to climate as possible. and so they can't run slicks cus then they would need a rain tyre just sitting there just in case it rains. and also slicks would not last the whole race. so they would need more than 2 sets and so thats not sustainable. FE is sustainability/green to the climate 1st and speed 2nd. and tbh even tho its slower than F1 its has 10x better races and also these grooved tyres they use are more similar to road car tyres. i dont know about you but ive never seen a road car that use slick tyre. so then why should race cars? so FE wants to increase grip in other ways than better tyres. like AWD Traction control etc. or ground effect. and if u ask me it makes more sense that they use grooved tyres. cus then they can improve the road car tyres from the data they get from FE racing. more so than F1 does with slicks. ps: sorry about my last comment didn't mean to rant that much
When we were kids we used to race electric slot cars, which were incredibly fast. It seems like racing and aviation are fast approaching engineering that removes the need for pilots and drivers. The 1966 film Grand Prix generated the excitement it did because of the drivers and their lives. 🤷🏼
Formula E is the tech demo showcasing the future of Motorsport. I feel the software engineers will be more of a factor than mechanical ones. The new generation of Dan Gurney will revolutionize aero with code.
They could do an EVO car with all the power/aero/etc to push limits and then have a toned down base model for racing. Use the EVO for hotlaps, testing, maybe some special events but keep the standard version for most races.
So when will they start using Solid State Batteries because they offer 2 to 3 times the energy density in the same package without increasing weight, then they can definetely beat an f1 car
Its better for these formula E guys to really detrone F1 as the fastest open wheel car. So that F1 would go back its roots to N/A v10 cause there is nothing to prove anymore and its going to be run by the fans
How do you propose they would do this? To put out more power than an F1 car and still do the same 300KM distance as an F1 race, the battery is going to be huge and significantly heavier than an F1 car, especially if they used a V10 ICE only as you suggest. Also, the ABB and the FIA have an agreement in place until 2037 that dictates that Formula E remain the sole electric racing series under the FIA banner, and the FIA would never let there crown jewel in Formula 1 be diluted. It pulls in more viewers and money tenfold then any other championship. It's not even close
Similar technologies had been held back from tradicional racing because it "detracted from the sport" or whatever, but now with those cars, not it is not only particularly easy and efficient to have that, but those things need this level of efficiency to go farther/faster and give us even better racing. Finally some innovation!
I love this. It’s the final evolution of the racing automobile. Goodbye to all of the things F1’s inane bloated ruleset banned for financial reasons, and hello to the _perfect_ race car, with *every bit of advancement ever made.* Four wheel drive. Four wheel steering. Active aero. And electric drive. Would we also see active suspensions, air brakes, and moving turning flaps too, in future generations? Fan cars? Traction control?
Formula E is slowly becoming what Formula 1 used to be, the pinnacle of motorsport and automotive engineering. Hopefully they will introduce DAS, active suspension and slick tires in the future. One day, a Formula E car will destroy even the Mercedes W11 on a Grand Prix circuit and I'm all in for it! Formula E will become the new Formula 1.
@@KitKitChanIsaac Not sure about that tbh. F1 has stalled in recent years but FE also has its own limitations that it implements like tyres that lack way more performance than other road racers. Light on downforce. I mean, we'll have to see what changes for Gen 4 but realistically, I don't think they'll completely abandon all their routes, like how will they keep racing on the street circuits if they go too fast.. Adjustments will have to be made. It's an ambitious project to work on in just 2 years.
@@KitKitChanIsaac I have to remind you again that absolute speed was not the point of Formula E, but getting as much out of a given amount of energy while battling others trying to do the same. Yes one team could make a tribute track weapon. But these innovations are born out of the need to minimize consumption and speed is the bonus.
While I really like the idea of active aero, I don't think having the aero tuned corner by corner is a good idea. For starter the conditions might change during the race (other cars disturbing the airflow, rain, etc). But most of all, I think the system should adapt itself based on external parameters like speed, turning angle of the steering wheel, weight on each wheel, etc. Although the settings would be controlled by the engineers, the software should absolutely not have the position on track of the corner number as input (and obvious not count the corners either like they did at some point in F1).
Steering modulated aero is the solution for ya + DRS button, it obeys driver inputs, and the wings are always at the brink of stalling by setting up correlation of steering and speed.
Inboard AWD is better than In-Hub AWD, Student cars aren't physically big enough to easily package front inboard motors though. Hub motors are cool but put a lot of weight far away from the CG, thus are bad for moment of inertia. Also Wheels tend to get smashed up, and those motors are expensive, bad idea to put them in a risky mount. Downside of inboard is you have a little bit of efficiency losses due to needing shafts.
exactly my thought. another thing i thought about is, FE cars use alot of regen to slow them down as brakes and so they dont rely on mechanical brakes that much anymore. so here is what im wondering. wont't in-hub AWD basically make regen impossible as those motors are DC motors not AC motors as inboard motors usually are.
There is already heavy equipment with that kind of traction. Caterpillar motograders use a hydraulic front wheel drive with an option to increase wheel speed to the outside wheel, reducing the turning radio. Fendt tractors have something similar I think too
xD Those drivers need to build a strong neck. With torque vectoring, you greatly reduce the speed at which your car can turn at maximum g-forces. Your car is turning because of the torque all 4 wheels are applying to the center of mass. With torque vectoring, you can trail brake into the corner with the inside tire and the outside corner can start accelerating out of the corner as soon as it gets traction. While I love those systems from an engineering standpoint I really hope the drivers get limited to fixed mappings of inputs to wheel torque. If you add control systems into the mix it's barely a challenge for a driver to avoid over and under-rotation, similar to looking up a car with ABS.
Considering the modern f1 Pu is(or at least was) the absolute most thermally efficient ever produced... doing 6mpg is bonker considering the type of driving involve.
One motor per wheel with those kilos, is better than singel motor. 12 kilos of those motors connected to each wheel, gives better weight managment , better cooling and better battery charging.
3:18 “…remove the extra weight, the drivers, will not be needed…” I miss the times when Michael Schumacher and Ayrton Senna raced. Those two were absolutely insane. Always expecting something unexpected.
FormE should be its own thing... exciting races just like the difference between MotoGP and the 125s... 125s are swapping positions multiple times a lap and always an interesting race.
I'm probably misunderstanding, but if the software is going to control everything on the car, where do the drivers come in? It almost sounds like at that point, all a "driver" needs to do is press forward, back, and side buttons and the car can be programmed to do the rest, right?
Nah, the software obeys the driver inputs as much as any other hardware, and they can be setup to the driver's liking, iirc not even TC or Abs allowed in FE.
I would love to see the elimination of traditional friction brakes if they go 4 motor AWD. Just make them rely on negative torque and regen for braking!!
If it is really as fast as F1 car, then it will be carrying a huge amount of kinetic energy, more than F1 cars. Same speed, heavier weight of the car. It will need much stronger brakes. And when it goes off - will cause much more destruction. And that battery fire hazard is something else altogether.
If formula E is getting so adv only with electrci why do we need to push this agenda in the F1 too ,with 50/50 Electric/ICE ,why not start using synthetic fuels like Motogp.
Solid state cells in 2026-28, raxial flux hybrid motors like the koenesigg dark matter which is 800hp at just 40kgs! Real useful aero, stickier tires etc.
@@4literv6 Lot of problems with Solid State Batteries to fix first, I doubt we will see them in the next decade in any large commercial application, if ever.
Would active suspensions and ground effect (like in early 80s wing cars) be more aero-efficient? If I remember correctly, Gen1 Formula E had different solution for drive trains, batteries, even gearboxes... now they are all the same, no active research, how would it be Gen4?
The Gen1 drivetrain solutions collapsed into what we have today mostly because teams found out what is the best - strong EM with single gear is better than small motor with many gears, and so on. In early seasons teams were throwing ideas on the wall and observed what sticks, eventually arriving at same findings. We might get a new era of "different solutions for the same problem" with the Gen4 car, as completely new innovations would be involved and teams would have to again figure out what the best solution is.
Finally there's innovation in racing again that will actually trickle down to the man on the road. F1 has gotten so bloody disconnected in the last years I've a hard time even calling the vehicles "cars" any more
Wait....If each wheel runs on its own individual power, is there still a need for a differential to distribute power? Would you still at least need a differential for mechanical reasons?
there's a misconception about predictability in racing. in this video, it's said that when it becomes less predictable, it gonna be more interesting to watch. but that's not what real world data suggests (it'll mostly attract different viewers.) unpredictability essentially means that the winner is mostly determined by luck. this would make a technically challenging sport akin to poker, gambling in a casino, or soccer. the reality is that most F1 fans are also tech nerds and they really like to understand why a team one. look at NASCAR; they drive up to five-hundred miles to make some engine noise and the last lap then yields one lucky winner; it's just a very different category of sport. yes, the thing which indeed can be frustrating to watch is when a faster car is severely impeded by a slower one and there's nothing they can do about it except waiting for a pit stop opportunity. so yes, ensuring that overtaking is possible is a very good thing, of course.
It is considered the motorsport of the future , where electric power is taken to the limits , but its a spec series. Let them develop these cars themselves.
Same is true of every race series, without limits a race car of any kind could be way quicker than what we have today. The rules keep the racing relatively close, so we don’t see the same 10 laps down scenarios like we did in the early days.
F1 fans don't understand F1. You're not getting old engine formats because they are greenwashing the sport. *In response to seeing so many comments like, 'but if FE is the green one why can't we have our loud engines back in F1.'
It will still be naff - remember that all ICE racing series evolve through the season and rules are changed to SLOW them down.. this has happened in Touring Cars, WEC, WRC and of course, F1
Formula 1 has the greatest advantage over all other vehicles in accelerating 0-200 kmh (~5s), not 0-100. When accelerating 0-200 it beats everyone else. Formula 1 reaches 100 (~60 mph) kmh in first gear.
FI cars have active aero called DRS, necessary because of all that aero. But then are they cars or projectiles? All these tricks when what is needed is technology that improves the breed for the oiks who ultimately fund the racing. People who buy & use cars (not projectiles). Battery tech, and torque vectoring can trickle down into EVs, dynamic aero won't. Unless you are filthy rich then it is a toy. A phallic extension.
They will only be considered "F1 Fast" when they can be as fast as F1 *on a whole 305 km race distance* and without tricks like swapping cars, anything less than that will still be lower category. I doubt they will achieve that anytime soon.
I think if the tech ever gets to F1 speeds/distance. F1 will be using it, but that's still years away. Probably need swappable batteries to do tracks like Monza or Spa at F1 speeds. I reckon FE will just become an F1.5 sort of series. Gen 4 should bring them to at least F2 speeds in quali, and races are supposed to get to around 1hr30. So that will raise the stock of the series by quite a bit, but still a long way to go for F1 levels. Then again with the 26 rules, who knows might see FE closer than they should be.
Also urgently needed: ultra-rapid 30-sec semi-manual pit-stop battery-swaps enabling FE and F1 race cars to ultra-excitingly compete against each other in the same epic events and race series. But that's obviously something that powerful oil+combustion addicted vested interests - the usual suspects - are religiously opposed to. But audiences by contrast DO want to see the ultimate showdown: electric v combustion battling it out against each other at the same major race event. Begin the real FE-F1 race revolution with an annual audience-grabbing F1 v FE showdown / face-off race - an epic 60-80 laps on an F1 track - FE cars using both 30-sec batt-swaps and ultra-fast charge-boosts. Paul G
Torque vectoring will be possible as well. Amazing technology..but who or what is actually controlling the car? Eventually no human required. The lack of engine sound is also a big negative for me.
Formula E could have been faster than F1 for years now if the series wasn't spec and it allowing an actual development war with a very smal technical regulation.
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What's happened to this "driving a car upsidedown in a tunnel" project? You plugged the heck out of it and then we haven't seen a video in over 7 months.
Probably funding.
D r
😅😅😅😅
I was wondering the same thing
I dont really like scott tbf, cant really trust him with anything.
Money.
This man is the CEO of different microphone qualities in a video
You're not kidding around 2:27-2:30 :o
Guessing some bits where recorded in monaco and other bits when he got home.
Or a fix of the script during editing / after the primary recording session
1:50 those people rolling their eyes at "efficiency" in motorsport have no idea what endurance racing actually is.
Pitting less for fuel is very important to win there.
Good luck in Le Mans with a full E-Car. xD
Le Mans will never be won by an electric car, it’s impossible no matter how good your battery is
@@henryhallam5270 exactly...
@@henryhallam5270 It can if it's hydrogen electric, the gas is more expensive but the car is lighter, can make the same power and fuels up about as quick as an ICEU car.
@@henryhallam5270 Still not the point he is making. Efficiency was ALWAYS the goal. The gains are just massive.
Whats with your audio? Used to be much clearer and consistent.
Thats nothing he abusing our eyes as well. blurred images at 2:26
hes in a different room
I mean F1 has been restricting their cars for nearly 30 years now.
Give it a couple more year and they're up to speed, at that point they also will be limited by safety.
*74
F1 has had a rulebook with restrictions to cars since it's origins, It never was a "formula libre" and never will.
@@mondodimotori True. That's why they call it "formula". But it didn't use to be so ridiculously regulated as it is now.
Your point being?
@@Alan-ww8vi Formula E cars wont be faster than Formula 1 cars (whenever FE cars reach that point) cuz the FIA will restrict their speed for safety reasons, the same thing happen to current F1 cars
Safety reasons and also F1 was restricted because they wanted it more about driver skill than using electronics to do the drivers job.
Simply allowing torque vectoring and asymmetrical braking is a huge advantage over F1
Define 'advantage'
It makes driver skill even less important than it currently is. Most people want to see the best drivers win, and illustrate their superiority visually.
Are you sure it's really an advantage, and the grand scheme of motorsports?
@@procatprocat9647, in this case the car wins, and why do yall have to whine about different control laws, even with torque vectoring, it doesn't stop you from spinning.
@@procatprocat9647This is such cope. If you wanted pure skill then every f1 car would be the same lol
So did you completely abandon the project of driving a car upside down? There have been no updates for 7 months now..
Pretty sure developing a car from scratch to do that would require more than 7 months.
@@mondodimotori Sure, but an update every once in a while might be nice. Not these huge intervals.
Money money money man, the funding required is insane that's why he did the big push, hoping someone would sponsor him, and even if they said yes there are likely contracts to sort out, possibly NDA's until everything is 100% sorted. I reckon it would be 18 months minimum until we see anything on track best case
I watched a recent video where he did mention it. Don't remember which one though, either way, it's not exactly gonna be a short term project.
to be honest.. i never believed that this will be done
its an INSANELY expensive project. I have no idea how he could talk about it like its a simply task that just needs a bit funding.
the tunnel alone will cost millions.
and then the car developement comes on top. He has to find a billionair to fund this project.
its like a feverdream to even have the idea to make this happen.
he should rather build his own Formula 3 car or a nice hillclimb / time attack car. Would only cost 1/10 to 1/20ths or even less of the money and could be done in a fraction of time.
With one small motor per wheel, there is no reason to stop at four wheels. Gen 5 cars could have *six* wheels, or possibly even *eight.* More grip is more better!
Why keep the car shape? With all wheel steering, let's make it round with wheels all around it. Formula UFO!
Grip/friction is typically dimensionless, dependent on the coefficient of friction between two surfaces the normal force and gravity (or down force). I don't think adding more wheels necessarily improves grip.
Would also increase weight.
Also wouldn't necessarily increase the grip that much, depends on how the contact patch is affected. There's also a limit to how much power is usable in formula e, the tracks are narrow and adding more wheels also makes a vehicle longer.
If they use softer tire compounds with the added surface area it should definitely give more grip.
Having more wheels is generally a off-road thing because having more surface area means you don't sink into the dirt so easily.
If we only drive the 4 rear wheels it might get crazy regeneration and have really good turn in response.
With all wheel steering and torque vectoring especially, then we can power all the wheels with no issues
Would be fun with active suspension as well along with the active aero.
Active suspension on 8 wheels is amusing.
More grip is more rolling resistance. Maybe they can do two laps of a real circuit with 8 wheels 😅
@@TomasSwiftMetcalfeTyres are not like ideal physics friction. The friction coefficient drops off a bit the more you load them.
I still think making it essentially a spec series holds FE back significantly, a true development war would bring the technology on leaps and bounds every year
That’s true, HOWEVER, a big plus of being a spec series is it’s vastly cheaper. And tbh I don’t know how much the teams are willing to spend on it when it doesn’t have a huge monetary return. It’s still a very small sport tbh
Nah it is not, powertrain and suspensions are different, it's more like LMDh in this case, you can have whatever motor in the car, you can have AC, BLDC or even brushed motor, they will monitor the current/voltage drawn make sure equal power and all the inefficiencies you have, comes from your own motor, you still have to do the homework.
@@Dakkyun surely forcing everyone to have the same power is still holding everyone back?
And are the power cells spec? Even then it should be de-restricted to encourage a development war
@@callumlaird1195 batteries are spec. But the motors development, suspension development are still open, even at the same power, you'd waste some of it to heat,it's a war to stop this wasting, even if the motors are 95% efficient, If you remove this restriction, they still are limited by the battery because they STILL have to go the distance anyway.
Looking forward to Gen 5, where they drop most unreliable part - the driver 😁
that would make the most sense but it would never realistically happen lol
Computer cars for computer audiences, hmm would humans watch 📺 ? Thus the logical destination is no physical sim ERacing… oh wait 😅 and that would be sad, racing is about human drivers not just Tech.. 🤷♂️
Did you watch the AI race
There's already a race , but failed miserably, none of the AI cars finished the race
@@_Inevitability_not coming soon... They already did a race! So it's here and it's only missing a real calendar!
crazy idea here, you put swappable batteries on the car. You have choices between bigger but heavier or smaller and lighter pack and you make pit stop where you change de battery for a new one. It's like refueling but different. It would open the opportunities to so many strategies
Nah mate, water cooled batteries and all the piping, plus regen braking is really advanced now you don't need that. You are just looking for theatre, the same reason Michelin left formula 1 after they mandate mandatory pitstops, because michelin wanted to make tires that actually lasts.
Another neat thing you can do with 4 motors is create a slight speed difference between front and rear wheels to cause friction and heat the tires up faster
Minute torque adjustments to guide the car to pass smoother keeping the wheels straight cutting aerodynamic drag is also a plus.
Adding a point to what James Barkley said - the Goodwill lap record now is held by McMurthy Sperling
Sticking with DOT street tires will keep the braking distances long regardless of downforce. The tire can only do so much and when its a street compound tire with low grip all the downforce in the world won't fix it.
You do know they don't actually use road tires right. Bruno Senna sat down with Mr Jww a few years back in an interview on his channel. In it he said they tried a cup 2r on the gen 1 car in early development and just like on the road cars it only lasted about 3 full pace race laps. And lap 2/3 of race run was about 8 seconds slower than lap 1 because the tire was destroyed already and that sometimes it wouldn't make it to the end of a qualifying lap. He said that for Gen 1 Michelin used a modified hard lmp1 compound and put it in the road car mold. They did this so it can have pace( it was quicker around a lap than the cup 2r ) and actually lasted till the pit stop. And they put it into the mold to fit the singular All weather tire image that formula e was looking for. I have no idea what the compound of gen 3 is off the top of my head but I do know that it is bespoke to formula e rn
It's honestly true about the racing in Formula E, it's so much better than Formula 1, to the point I watch it more than I do Formula 1. 100+ overtakes in a single race, cars going 3-wide into a corner, you never, ever see that otherwise.
You see that kinda racing in F2 all the time and even in F1 depending on the track. The biggest problem with FE is the stupid gimmicks like that attack mode and the (thankfully) discontinued fan boost that they need to artificially make the racing “better”. It keeps me from taking them seriously. On top of that they can only race at short tracks without long straights because the car’s battery wouldn’t be able to regen enough to complete a race distance. There’s also the issue of how batteries act over a race distance losing peak power as the batteries get charged and discharged which this guy never talks about in his FE videos.
Lots of slow overtakes, many which are aided by gimmicks like attack mode, are a lot more boring than seeing two cars fight for position going through corners at speeds FE can barely reach in a straight line. FE legitimately looks like fancy electric kart racing and not a top level motorsport. I mean it’s funny that they’re talking about reaching F1 levels when when they’re still 6 seconds behind F3 and 1 second slower than FRECA (2022) around Monaco, a circuit that very much plays to the strengths of FE. Not to mention those are literal children driving in F3 and FRECA compared to the much more experienced drivers usually found in FE. Oh and btw compared to F1 they’re 20 seconds slower around a track the F1 cars horribly suited for.
So in the end if you’re not only slower than a racing series for teenagers that make 100hp-200hp less but also relying on gimmicks to make the racing exciting, you’re a joke of a motorsport.
But it looks and sounds like scalextric car racing.. humming and buzzing and tyre roar.. it’s totally dead inertia..
@@-._.-._.-Sully-._.-._.- All those things doesn't matter when the racing is still infinitely better than all those series you mentioned. The cars don't have the downforce of those series, meaning overtaking is much easier as you don't get massively slowed down in corners by being behind other cars, leading to a lot more exciting racing.
I can only tell you what I (and others) see watching these races. Regardless of what you feel I have never seen so many nailbiting finishes, crazy overtakes and driving in any other Formula racing series.
@@Tracertme I mean I thought that would bother me at first but it honestly really doesn't.
@@swecreations the racing isn’t better though at all. It’s all artificially created which isn’t racing. I can name at least several F1 races that came down to nailbiter finishes this year. F2 has been an absolute blast to watch this year especially with all the big talent coming through. FE is a bunch of F1 and F2 rejects and it’s not as exciting to watch as say someone like Andrea Kim Antonelli skipping F3 moving up to F2 after completely dominating multiple karting, F4, and FRECA champions. Watching talent like that develop over the season and once he and the team got a handle on the new 2024 reg cars his wins in Silverstone and Hungary were complete master classes able to gap the field by seconds a lap in clean are. Talent like that doesn’t exist in FE.
So I’ll go over it again; FE has minimal to no talent, the cars are slower than most every formula feeder series even the ones with less 100-200hp less. And racing is made good through artificial means.
You’re not a motorsport racing fan you’re an artificially created entertainment fan. That completely fine just don’t put your self in the same realm as actual motorsports, it’s a glorified karting series. If you where in it for good close racing were you never know who’s gonna win? Have you ever heard of NASCAR or IndyCar? Those are actual racing series that produce everything you want from FE close racing wise without the gimmicks.
Honestly I have a feeling you only watch FE and no other motorsport because everything you say you want exists in other series.
Oh and one last thing. Speed is an essential element of motorsports so don’t act like it’s not important. You guys get caught into the premise of prioritizing making racing better by slowing down cars which goes against everything motorsport is and was.
What up with the constant change of volume lol
Recording in different environments with different mics and different gain settings. Makes the channel seem very amateur.
@@BigFatCock0 Even with that you can fix it in post which they didn't do
3:24 : we're on world record pace to getting real life T-180s my boys!
Remember, if you want real kick you go Bernoulli.
Tyres are the limiting factor in FE... no matter how fast the car is if it doesn't run on slicks it wouldn't matter a lot.
It actually doesn't matter at all because FE was never, ever about pure speed, it has always been efficiency, strategy, motor design, and driver's balls to execute the strategy.
If F1 is so adamant on using hybrids why don't they adopt what Williams would have used with the Flywheel Hybrid system from what I've heard that system was smaller and lighter than the current hybrid systems which could see cars being slimmed down drastically in size and weight
i think you mean kers?
This is about Formula E though.
How would that push "THE MESSAGE" though?
F1 compromises performance for political correctness but is somehow the "pinnacle of motorsports"
And put them in the front, like LMP1 did, honestly all of the solutions F1 needs has been developed by LMP1 golden years 15-16-17, and then they fear audi domination, the one to blame is the manufacturers and FOM here. Such pity.
Flywheel systems aren't as good as batteries, even Audi abandoned it.
I never expected Formula E to last this long but fair play. I have to admit the bits of FE Ive seen impressed me with the development of the tech and the racing.
They're going to get super fast cars that just go slowly in a line because they're not allowed to have enough power at the start to have interesting racing
"Not allowed?"
Damn Engineers and Scientists who are struggling to extend the limits of technology, but you claim they are disallowing the cars more energy 😂
its fun to see my hood and this crazy little car in your video. i was down there at the old airport when they tested it. i do like your analysis.
lucas vision for FE is so cool. Formula E will develop into real life wipeout...
that's the best way to differ enough from F1 to stay relevant and get more attention.
dont get me wrong / i love good old combustion engine racing / do watch anything from F1 over indy to WEC and GT racing.
still i also follow FE also because ther is great driver talent on the grid. so i wish it to be a bettter product.
it got much better over the years. still up to now it is an electric substitue . somehow
it has to become its own thing to really become a succesfull product for investores and spectators...
greetings from duebendorf in Switzerland
peace out
great video! The gen 4 cars with 4 wheel drive and active aero and everything sound really cool. But I cant imagine driving them would be very pleasant, or watching them race very exciting.
If Gen 4 goes axial flux motor + planetary gearbox in the wheel, it will mean the motor and brake are separated by just the gearbox - a very compact unit without a drive shaft. Perhaps the motor/gearbox/brake unit could go inboard so it is not damaged in accidents - this would allow the rack and pinion steering, motor, gearbox and brake to go in one package. With little suspension travel, a short, stiff half-shaft should work OK. Vector drive at each wheel would be great to see.
Every time someone talks about differentials, I bring up something that is on my mind for a long time.
With it being a mechanical system, a differential always gives resistance. Adjusting a rear diff to mitigate oversteer than must mean that the front actually already has too much grip by default. The differential only mutes it. If it actually increases rotation by itself must mean it is putting out power on its own, which it doesn't.
Having an independent system, like a motor per wheel, must be much more efficient, because it doesn't have that mechanical resistance by default. This also means grip can be taken from the front, which can be done many ways and always in favour of efficiency.
If I am in any way wrong, please tell me why with references. I am always open and eager to learn.
I think you answered it towards the end. Is FE an experiment, or a racing series? You could throw all the tech upgrades you like at it, but if you want to have it an exciting racing series you need to add more driver input, not take it away with torque vectoring and active aero through each corner. It’s not much of a leap from this to removing the driver altogether.
Besides, if FE were so concerned with maximising grip they wouldn’t run grooved tyres.
well from what we learned from that AI race in abu dhabi we have a loong way to go before humans can be raplaced by computers to drive race cars.
and i mean F1 had traction control ABS active suspension active aero in the past. 80s and 90s. and i don't see people complain much about that era.
and you are making me a bit mad here cus first u say u don't want driver aids. and yet u want FE to have slicks tyres. which by nature makes for better grip and easier to drive....WHAT!?
@@jesperhammarlund300 I never said any such thing - I merely commented on the contradiction in the video suggesting FE were striving for more grip, yet they run grooved tyres.
@@CaptainBlackadder75 if u do some research u would know that they run all weather tyres cus they only have 2 sets per weekend. per driver. this is due to wanting to use minimal rubber to be as green towards to climate as possible. and so they can't run slicks cus then they would need a rain tyre just sitting there just in case it rains. and also slicks would not last the whole race. so they would need more than 2 sets and so thats not sustainable.
FE is sustainability/green to the climate 1st and speed 2nd. and tbh even tho its slower than F1 its has 10x better races
and also these grooved tyres they use are more similar to road car tyres. i dont know about you but ive never seen a road car that use slick tyre. so then why should race cars?
so FE wants to increase grip in other ways than better tyres.
like AWD Traction control etc. or ground effect.
and if u ask me it makes more sense that they use grooved tyres. cus then they can improve the road car tyres from the data they get from FE racing. more so than F1 does with slicks.
ps: sorry about my last comment didn't mean to rant that much
@@jesperhammarlund300 That’s it
The council have decided that jesper wins the case.
Makes you wonder how fast these cars could be if it wasnt a spec chassis/aero package and teams could properly push the boundaries
Greeting from malaysia...love your channel sir🎉🎉🎉great video👍👍👍
When we were kids we used to race electric slot cars, which were incredibly fast. It seems like racing and aviation are fast approaching engineering that removes the need for pilots and drivers. The 1966 film Grand Prix generated the excitement it did because of the drivers and their lives. 🤷🏼
Formula E is the tech demo showcasing the future of Motorsport. I feel the software engineers will be more of a factor than mechanical ones. The new generation of Dan Gurney will revolutionize aero with code.
Would love to see the McMurty around Monaco.
They could do an EVO car with all the power/aero/etc to push limits and then have a toned down base model for racing. Use the EVO for hotlaps, testing, maybe some special events but keep the standard version for most races.
Gen4 needs full-time independently controlled electric front wheels with torque vectoring.
So when will they start using Solid State Batteries because they offer 2 to 3 times the energy density in the same package without increasing weight, then they can definetely beat an f1 car
Its better for these formula E guys to really detrone F1 as the fastest open wheel car. So that F1 would go back its roots to N/A v10 cause there is nothing to prove anymore and its going to be run by the fans
How do you propose they would do this? To put out more power than an F1 car and still do the same 300KM distance as an F1 race, the battery is going to be huge and significantly heavier than an F1 car, especially if they used a V10 ICE only as you suggest. Also, the ABB and the FIA have an agreement in place until 2037 that dictates that Formula E remain the sole electric racing series under the FIA banner, and the FIA would never let there crown jewel in Formula 1 be diluted. It pulls in more viewers and money tenfold then any other championship. It's not even close
@@nicholashansen1477Battery swaps.
LOL you want F1 to be a spec series is what you're saying. Engineers don't want to do that.
" Go back to its roots to N/A v10" .. You do know that there was a world before 1990, and F1 was a part of that world?
It's just click bait.. FIA won't let other championship faster than F1.. All have their scheme of profitability
Similar technologies had been held back from tradicional racing because it "detracted from the sport" or whatever, but now with those cars, not it is not only particularly easy and efficient to have that, but those things need this level of efficiency to go farther/faster and give us even better racing. Finally some innovation!
I love this.
It’s the final evolution of the racing automobile. Goodbye to all of the things F1’s inane bloated ruleset banned for financial reasons, and hello to the _perfect_ race car, with *every bit of advancement ever made.*
Four wheel drive. Four wheel steering. Active aero. And electric drive. Would we also see active suspensions, air brakes, and moving turning flaps too, in future generations? Fan cars? Traction control?
Formula E is slowly becoming what Formula 1 used to be, the pinnacle of motorsport and automotive engineering.
Hopefully they will introduce DAS, active suspension and slick tires in the future. One day, a Formula E car will destroy even the Mercedes W11 on a Grand Prix circuit and I'm all in for it! Formula E will become the new Formula 1.
@@KitKitChanIsaac Not sure about that tbh. F1 has stalled in recent years but FE also has its own limitations that it implements like tyres that lack way more performance than other road racers. Light on downforce. I mean, we'll have to see what changes for Gen 4 but realistically, I don't think they'll completely abandon all their routes, like how will they keep racing on the street circuits if they go too fast.. Adjustments will have to be made. It's an ambitious project to work on in just 2 years.
@@KitKitChanIsaac
I have to remind you again that absolute speed was not the point of Formula E, but getting as much out of a given amount of energy while battling others trying to do the same. Yes one team could make a tribute track weapon. But these innovations are born out of the need to minimize consumption and speed is the bonus.
traction control is actually already coming with Gen 3 evo
@@KitKitChanIsaac have you considered stand-up comedy? A Formula E car destroying the W11 is the funniest thing I've ever heard of
While I really like the idea of active aero, I don't think having the aero tuned corner by corner is a good idea.
For starter the conditions might change during the race (other cars disturbing the airflow, rain, etc).
But most of all, I think the system should adapt itself based on external parameters like speed, turning angle of the steering wheel, weight on each wheel, etc. Although the settings would be controlled by the engineers, the software should absolutely not have the position on track of the corner number as input (and obvious not count the corners either like they did at some point in F1).
Steering modulated aero is the solution for ya + DRS button, it obeys driver inputs, and the wings are always at the brink of stalling by setting up correlation of steering and speed.
Inboard AWD is better than In-Hub AWD, Student cars aren't physically big enough to easily package front inboard motors though. Hub motors are cool but put a lot of weight far away from the CG, thus are bad for moment of inertia. Also Wheels tend to get smashed up, and those motors are expensive, bad idea to put them in a risky mount. Downside of inboard is you have a little bit of efficiency losses due to needing shafts.
exactly my thought. another thing i thought about is, FE cars use alot of regen to slow them down as brakes and so they dont rely on mechanical brakes that much anymore.
so here is what im wondering. wont't in-hub AWD basically make regen impossible as those motors are DC motors not AC motors as inboard motors usually are.
Hearing “all wheel steering” reminded me of the speed racer cars. Plz make my childhood dream become a reality
With 4 wheel drive the regen will be even better, it will be great to see what that brings. Thanks Scott! 👍💪✌
There is already heavy equipment with that kind of traction. Caterpillar motograders use a hydraulic front wheel drive with an option to increase wheel speed to the outside wheel, reducing the turning radio. Fendt tractors have something similar I think too
As long as all the cars are still same chassis and teams effectively only are allowed to develop power units still, I’m happy
xD Those drivers need to build a strong neck. With torque vectoring, you greatly reduce the speed at which your car can turn at maximum g-forces. Your car is turning because of the torque all 4 wheels are applying to the center of mass. With torque vectoring, you can trail brake into the corner with the inside tire and the outside corner can start accelerating out of the corner as soon as it gets traction.
While I love those systems from an engineering standpoint I really hope the drivers get limited to fixed mappings of inputs to wheel torque. If you add control systems into the mix it's barely a challenge for a driver to avoid over and under-rotation, similar to looking up a car with ABS.
The electric FORD Super Van broke all the records. Pikes Peak, Goodwood HC, Mt. Panorama, the Nordschleife is next... At least that is the rumor.
Considering the modern f1 Pu is(or at least was) the absolute most thermally efficient ever produced... doing 6mpg is bonker considering the type of driving involve.
I only want gen4 to produce actual good racing, as that took a massive step backwards between gen2 - gen3
finally a Driver61 video in english. Stupid yt forced me to watch the german version of the last three videos.
You can change language in the player.
The should make the races last for an hour each & bring in fast charging.
One motor per wheel with those kilos, is better than singel motor. 12 kilos of those motors connected to each wheel, gives better weight managment , better cooling and better battery charging.
3:18 “…remove the extra weight, the drivers, will not be needed…”
I miss the times when Michael Schumacher and Ayrton Senna raced. Those two were absolutely insane. Always expecting something unexpected.
The 4 wheel steering reminds me of the cars in speed racer
I love the engineering side of racing
Question: Does a gen 4 car need a driver at all?
FormE should be its own thing... exciting races just like the difference between MotoGP and the 125s... 125s are swapping positions multiple times a lap and always an interesting race.
Im not sure traction control or torque vectoring would be improvements. reducing lap times but also reducing driver skills amd overtakes
I'm probably misunderstanding, but if the software is going to control
everything on the car, where do the drivers come in?
It almost sounds like at that point, all a "driver" needs to do is press
forward, back, and side buttons and the car can be programmed to
do the rest, right?
Nah, the software obeys the driver inputs as much as any other hardware, and they can be setup to the driver's liking, iirc not even TC or Abs allowed in FE.
I will quit watching motorsports the very moment formula e becomes faster than f1 or F1 becomes electric
It is going to happen soon cause electric boost destroy ice
Even Tesla beat supercars 😂😂😂
@@VarunTomee-kr6nfelectric boost?
@@flyingproofficial ev is future
I would love to see the elimination of traditional friction brakes if they go 4 motor AWD. Just make them rely on negative torque and regen for braking!!
Good to see that they're putting pressure on F1. Maybe F1 will finally feel the need to cut down the weight and size to compete.
The higher capacity batteries are not solely for range, but for acceleration+range.
If it is really as fast as F1 car, then it will be carrying a huge amount of kinetic energy, more than F1 cars. Same speed, heavier weight of the car.
It will need much stronger brakes. And when it goes off - will cause much more destruction. And that battery fire hazard is something else altogether.
If formula E is getting so adv only with electrci why do we need to push this agenda in the F1 too ,with 50/50 Electric/ICE ,why not start using synthetic fuels like Motogp.
You should move to a house close to the coast. They are getting cheaper.
Because F1 doesn't want to fall behind, not that complicated.
Or If they actually want to make a difference make The calendar make sense not just fly across the world every weekend
It’s not an agenda, it’s superior technology
Also, f1 does use synthetic fuels.
FE is fun, they can sorta try whatever they want. So much more flexible
It will one day be F1's rival , one day
Solid state cells in 2026-28, raxial flux hybrid motors like the koenesigg dark matter which is 800hp at just 40kgs!
Real useful aero, stickier tires etc.
@@RinslerRR F1 cannot go fully electric, it will conflict with Formula E license. Watch Cleo Abram's video- Formula E, The Electric F1 explained.
@@4literv6 Lot of problems with Solid State Batteries to fix first, I doubt we will see them in the next decade in any large commercial application, if ever.
Time attack would be interesting with these cars turned up and active aero
Would active suspensions and ground effect (like in early 80s wing cars) be more aero-efficient?
If I remember correctly, Gen1 Formula E had different solution for drive trains, batteries, even gearboxes... now they are all the same, no active research, how would it be Gen4?
The Gen1 drivetrain solutions collapsed into what we have today mostly because teams found out what is the best - strong EM with single gear is better than small motor with many gears, and so on. In early seasons teams were throwing ideas on the wall and observed what sticks, eventually arriving at same findings.
We might get a new era of "different solutions for the same problem" with the Gen4 car, as completely new innovations would be involved and teams would have to again figure out what the best solution is.
Finally there's innovation in racing again that will actually trickle down to the man on the road. F1 has gotten so bloody disconnected in the last years I've a hard time even calling the vehicles "cars" any more
Motors at the front might be big in terms of recuperation.
Formula One's speed is limited by FIA regulations and budget cap limits. So comparing speeds too much doesn't make sense.
Screw that, put on afterburners and make the wheels go 180° and just make Speed Racer racing irl
What would happen if you swapped the engine of a current formula one car for a fully electric one
Wait....If each wheel runs on its own individual power, is there still a need for a differential to distribute power? Would you still at least need a differential for mechanical reasons?
Watch some formula student electric presentations for more info on this
If they allow chassis/aero development and if they get rid of bullshit like "fan boost" then it'll be a great series
Fanboost is already gone
@@lewis8552 glad!
They got rid of Fanboost years ago... Funny how some die hard FE haters still have yet to find out.
@@MrMichalMalek I am not a hater, vise versa I wanna see what those electric motors are capable of
there's a misconception about predictability in racing. in this video, it's said that when it becomes less predictable, it gonna be more interesting to watch. but that's not what real world data suggests (it'll mostly attract different viewers.) unpredictability essentially means that the winner is mostly determined by luck. this would make a technically challenging sport akin to poker, gambling in a casino, or soccer. the reality is that most F1 fans are also tech nerds and they really like to understand why a team one. look at NASCAR; they drive up to five-hundred miles to make some engine noise and the last lap then yields one lucky winner; it's just a very different category of sport.
yes, the thing which indeed can be frustrating to watch is when a faster car is severely impeded by a slower one and there's nothing they can do about it except waiting for a pit stop opportunity.
so yes, ensuring that overtaking is possible is a very good thing, of course.
It is considered the motorsport of the future , where electric power is taken to the limits , but its a spec series. Let them develop these cars themselves.
Same is true of every race series, without limits a race car of any kind could be way quicker than what we have today. The rules keep the racing relatively close, so we don’t see the same 10 laps down scenarios like we did in the early days.
Suspensions will still basically be the same as 40 years ago?
All that can be done on f1s too , it needs to be compared with the same regulations
Correction , you are talking about the 2026 F1 car regulations
F1 fans don't understand F1. You're not getting old engine formats because they are greenwashing the sport.
*In response to seeing so many comments like, 'but if FE is the green one why can't we have our loud engines back in F1.'
Can't wait for Formula E to run an actual Formula 1 race, 52 Laps on a track like Monza.
It will still be naff - remember that all ICE racing series evolve through the season and rules are changed to SLOW them down.. this has happened in Touring Cars, WEC, WRC and of course, F1
Formula 1 has the greatest advantage over all other vehicles in accelerating 0-200 kmh (~5s), not 0-100. When accelerating 0-200 it beats everyone else. Formula 1 reaches 100 (~60 mph) kmh in first gear.
"for saving the planet" lmao
Thanks Scott. Loved "the almost a sport" ;)
Can tell that I'm excited for FE
7:51, I doubt it... Maybe y'all just don't want the pressure on you like that this early... But I doubt F1 type performance isn't the goal
FI cars have active aero called DRS, necessary because of all that aero. But then are they cars or projectiles? All these tricks when what is needed is technology that improves the breed for the oiks who ultimately fund the racing. People who buy & use cars (not projectiles). Battery tech, and torque vectoring can trickle down into EVs, dynamic aero won't. Unless you are filthy rich then it is a toy. A phallic extension.
Add active suspension too
They will only be considered "F1 Fast" when they can be as fast as F1 *on a whole 305 km race distance* and without tricks like swapping cars, anything less than that will still be lower category.
I doubt they will achieve that anytime soon.
I think if the tech ever gets to F1 speeds/distance. F1 will be using it, but that's still years away. Probably need swappable batteries to do tracks like Monza or Spa at F1 speeds.
I reckon FE will just become an F1.5 sort of series. Gen 4 should bring them to at least F2 speeds in quali, and races are supposed to get to around 1hr30. So that will raise the stock of the series by quite a bit, but still a long way to go for F1 levels. Then again with the 26 rules, who knows might see FE closer than they should be.
Fe will never be f1 fast because, it was never the goal.
I hope the cars won't have "ornaments" like the rear wing in gen3
Could active aero be used as an in race weapon - ex. mess up someone's slip stream?
Let's be real, if the regs allowed it, this would have been developed for F1 probably around 2010 and 4WD has been banned for decades as you know.
Also urgently needed: ultra-rapid 30-sec semi-manual pit-stop battery-swaps enabling FE and F1 race cars to ultra-excitingly compete against each other in the same epic events and race series. But that's obviously something that powerful oil+combustion addicted vested interests - the usual suspects - are religiously opposed to. But audiences by contrast DO want to see the ultimate showdown: electric v combustion battling it out against each other at the same major race event. Begin the real FE-F1 race revolution with an annual audience-grabbing F1 v FE showdown / face-off race - an epic 60-80 laps on an F1 track - FE cars using both 30-sec batt-swaps and ultra-fast charge-boosts.
Paul G
Torque vectoring will be possible as well. Amazing technology..but who or what is actually controlling the car? Eventually no human required. The lack of engine sound is also a big negative for me.
Looking at the first AI race, yeah, no, humans is still very much required.
drag doesnt quadruple over speed, its a ^3 kind of situation
I think they will introduce self delivering racing EVs soon
Didn't one of these cars spontaneously explode on the grid in Mexico when the battery glitched out?
With greater power comes greater responsibility
Formula E could have been faster than F1 for years now if the series wasn't spec and it allowing an actual development war with a very smal technical regulation.