Good god, the rescue NPC quests you get from the Companions quest line. Had one from the town on one side of the thermal springs area that I had to rescue on the other side of that. Just give me some vampires to fight or something and we will be fine.
It's because the Imperials consider anyone who doesn't outright side with them as a traitor/stormcloak, so the best they can do is be imperial but (try) to avoid fighting stormcloaks.
Ulfric tried to force Balgruuf to join the Stormcloaks though so I wouldn’t say the Imperials are wrong by doing that . They’d obviously like to know who is with them and against them .
@@arabiannights5301 I'm sure he's a Thalmor spy. He'll just tip off the Thalmor whenever anyone is praying at the shrine. (And who tf has a leveled poison and a skull inside his house?)
I suppose the state of Whiterun could be more due to Bethesda's laziness when it came to the civil war storyline. Let's be honest, it's just a collection of fort capture missions with 2 city invasions. Nothing really special.
This is why my version is the best. You start off by rising through the ranks to Legate. Then you do Radiant, and Scripted Missions at a War Table sending troops, and agents to fight and gather Intel. The First Battle is Whiterun. Each city can be taken through three methods. City Takeover (Only possible when other side has lower troops than you) Espionage (Gather Intel on each jarl) Taking over all forts in hold forcing a surrender (Easiest but long)
What sucks is that there is data for a much more expanded storyline for the civil war quest line that was scrapped before launch. Every city could be captured for the opposing side, but Bethesda always gotta ruin their possibly interesting quest lines.
@@devinschaefer5646 Very true, though there is a mod that re-activates a lot of the cut content. It's sad really that the modding community seemed to be able to do more than the devs can. Though maybe they couldn't get it to work before it was shipped.
@@CloudyDaze It's just a matter of interpretation, and the game is written in vanilla to let you interpret it as you see fit. I always see Balgruuf as someone who's sympathetic to the the Stormcloak cause, but thinks that Ulfric is a shady MF. But the same thing goes for Ulfric, the game gives you enough evidence either way to cast Ulfric as a hero or a villain.
@@publiusdraco2557 Well on taking in everything he usually gives the feeling a villain since he does some incredibly stupid things, like even starting this civil war for no real reason in a forceful way to make the imperials to act and weakening skyrim and the empire for the second great war he knows is happening...
Actually, balgruuf does want to strengthen the walls especially once dragons show up. When you tell him about Helgen, he turns to proventus and says, "What do you say now, Proventus? Shall we continue to trust in the strength of our walls? Against a dragon?" It is implied that balgruuf doesn't increase the strength of the walls on Proventus's word that they will stand strong
Really fortifying walls against a flying threat is just dumb. They would fly over it and set the whole wooden city ablaze anyway. It would make no difference
I’d like to counter your points listed in the video. 1. Neutrality: Jarl Balgruf wasn’t naive in the Civil War by ignoring Ulfric’s messengers. He didn’t want to be involved with it in any way. He was putting off BOTH the Stormcloaks and Imperials requests, and wished to remain “Independent” Of either faction. Balgruf also knows that the Stormcloaks themselves would only attack if he outright refuses Ulfric his allegiance, leading me to believe that Balgruf is trying to maintain a fleeting Peace while governing his city against the Dragon Crisis. A move I think anyone would say is common, as it’s difficult to run a Hold and fight flying and fire breathing beasts at the same time as a War rages. Ulfric is a violent, yet Traditional man, and Balgruf takes advantage of this by not giving Ulfric any direct answer. Regarding the Imperial Missive, and the information given to Balgruf by the Imperials: Note that the Imperial Missive brought up in this video is liable to change depending on the faction chosen, as it can lead to the note reading that the Pale Pass is clear, and the army can be summoned at any time, or that the pass is blocked off and can’t reach Skyrim for some time. The missive is found in the Captain’s quarters for Fort Neugrad, the fort under Imperial Occupation close to the Border of Cyrodiil during the Civil War quest line. Even so, this Missive is only made public to the player upon finding it in the quarters, either by raiding the Fort as a Stormcloak, or pillaging it from Bandits before the quest line begins. This makes the note a bit situational, as the Imperials know they could also hand this Information to Balgruf at any time. And during the Civil War it’s led to believe that the reports given to Balgruf detail that the Stormcloaks intend to raid the city if Balgruf does not accept Ulfric’s claim as High King, and ally himself to Ulfric. If anything, Balgruf’s guard’s didn’t notice any Stormcloak spies surveying the area, or simply didn’t report it as the spies blended in well, being that most soldiers on both sides of the war in Skyrim are Farmers, and Veteran soldiers that are years out of practice and aged. 2. The State of the City: This isn’t him being exactly stupid, as we see he also has two counselors when it comes to Relations to other Holds. Proventus, and his Thane Iryleth. As we see during dialogue between the three, Balgruf is of the nature of fighting only if he cannot avoid it. He also holds true to the old Nordic belief of being challenged and facing off against a challenger to his rule in fair combat. Proventus however maintains a stance of caution. Proventus warns Balgruf that any fortification of his city, or villages could be seen as a front to Falkreath, and a possible declaration of war. Iryleth however takes a more War-Hawk nature when addressing dangers to Balgruf or the City of Whiterun. She will often counter-point Proventus when they discuss the protection of the city or the Politics of the Civil War with Balgruf, as she wished to keep the hold and its men in top shape. With two very prominent figures in his ears, Balgruf often takes the route he feels is needed, such as fortifying Riverwood, even if it’s only slightly. In some dialogue he can also be heard addressing his brother (Who requests Balgruf send some troops to the front lines to assist the Legion and have the Companions guard the City in their absence, however I believe this dialogue isn’t in the base game, but rather reintroduced by Citizen Dialogue overhaul and Cutting Room Floor) by telling him he doesn’t wish for his forces to be spread thin, as he fears this would allow the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild to run rampant. He also isn’t foolish enough to try and lay siege to Windhelm, as Proventus questions during the Civil War quest line, and only responds to the Imperials when he finally knows it’s Impossible to remain neutral any longer. Addressing his Hold Whiterun itself, I do agree with you. I think that the city is actually very easy to raid if you’re scaling the walls, and many walls are not on an elevated Hill, making a siege engine or siege tower useful in raiding the city in a realistic scenario. Regarding Avarti’s point with the Stormcloaks using Fire Arrows: Fire Arrows are not entirely possible in real life. Arrows are often made of easily burning material, or can’t sustain being burned for long, and are too brittle to do any serious damage, aside from needing to be lit and fired from primarily *wooden* bows. They also launch Burning oil jars via catapults, which accomplish a far more effective role that fire arrows ever could. And as for claiming the Creation Club arrows could be used, they are purchase only DLC, and not something buried in the in-game files and used via gameplay restorative mods such as Cutting Room Floor. And if I take them into account, it’s also useful to know that only bandits and mercenaries using Bows have a chance at spawning any unique elemental arrows. And I have not seen any soldiers of any faction using Elemental Arrows, thus I will not entertain the idea here. 3. Balgruf’s relationship to his Children: During the quest line of the Whispering Lady, and Main Quests, we get to meet each of Balgruf’s children. They are all very snobby and arrogant, as Balgruf’s daughter can’t tell you from a Hero and a Servant. We do hear however Balgruf does give them gifts at the least occasionally, as overheard dialogue between Balgruf’s Eldest Son and Daughter. This could indicate that Balgruf may spoil them to win their affection. It entails that Balgruf does promise his Daughter dresses, and has the staff of Dragonsreach cater to her whims. As for his Eldest Son, he is not allowed to learn swordplay, but can learn how to fight with his hands when spoken to. The only son that seems to have awful relations with Balgruf is his Youngest Son, who often sneaks through the castle and listens in on secrets. It’s also known that he has a different mother than Balgruf’s other children. This leads me to believe that Balgruf feels conflicted with his Son, as when asked about him, he confides to the player his youngest son had been lashing out more at him and those he meets, and becoming more violent toward Balgruf himself. Balgruf likely does not offer much attention to his Children, and in all likeliness, even less to his youngest son, but this is more likely due to Balgruf mostly running Whiterun Hold, and not having any actual time to relax or play with his children. Regarding the son corrupted by Mephala: It’s not wrong to assume that this child is Psychotic. He’s far more aggressive than his siblings, and verbally lashes out at the player when approached or spoken to. However, pulling from my own personal experiences living with a child who acts much like Balgruf’s youngest son, his actions likely spawn from Balgruf not spending time with or talking to his son, as my own nephew has these problems stem from not having a father or a solid positive influence in his life. Given their relationship, Balgruf also likely feels guilty for not having a Wife to help raise his children as a dual parent household would. Balgruf likely can’t make time to be a father due to his role as Jarl of Whiterun. (No other Jarl in the game has *young* children might I add, and being a Single Father Of three, “with no wife ever mentioned in-game or in cut dialogue” and a Ruler is not easy for anyone to deal with I imagine.) TL;DR: Balgruf not being a good father to his youngest son can likely be attributed to his lack of time or communication with his children, and having no wife to help him raise their children, and not entirely born out of neglect. Regarding his children remaining at Dragonsreach and him fleeing to Solitude if defeated at the Battle for Whiterun (Stormcloak Victory): There is no “real” explanation to this except Bethesda likely having not implemented the children to accompany Balgruf to Solitude. But if there’s an in-game explanation, I’ve never found it or heard it. But my theory is that the Gray-mane family took Balgruf’s children as Leverage so Balgruf couldn’t reliably mount an effort to reclaim his city, and his children are now being held as Hostages. Likely making Balgruf wary of attacking, as it could result in the death of his children. In conclusion: I don’t agree with several points in this video, but I will not say that Avarti’s points are without simple reason. I simply wanted to provide my input in the matter, and forgive my spelling if you notice any mistakes, as I am on mobile and can’t make checks without discarding the whole comment. In any case, these are my thoughts, opinions and speculation, and if any evidence proves to the contrary please tell me. Thanks for reading my hour long writing prompt telling you why I think Avarti is wrong and focusing on surface level topics and basic flaws in the game left by Bethesda. A nice video nonetheless. Have a lovely day.
That is a good post. I find your comments on neutrality insightful. Balgruuf did indeed know that Ulfric, for all his violent warrior ways, was still a very traditional dude who would respect the old school code. Many people miss this.
Yeah ulfric is nord as nord comes. Think people kind of forget how much nord code ulfric respects. His philosophy his actions all stem from that. Balgruuf was like yeah that dude is like william wallace from brave heart. Im not shitting on him lol.
Why I think Jarl Balwhatever is an idiot: Neutrality: He wants to play the neutral card but isn't strong enough to fend for himself and truly achieveve indepence from both the imperials and the stormcloaks, relying on mercenary work (the dragonborn, before it was known to anyone they were indeed dragonborn) to do something as mundane as retrieving a stone and something slightly bigger as slaying a dragon. "Aight sick message courier, truth be told, there are about 50 whiterun guards lurking around but I'm gonna send you and four poor fucks to kill a dragon even though we've never fought one before, good luck, imma be sitting on my throne doing nothing until either you or the dragon die." He's a dick His housecarl is also a dick His bald advisor is annoying His face ugly When Ulfric threatens to finally attack whiterun he shat his pants and dropped his "strong independent jarl" facade. And if you picked the imperial side you can even hear him mocking the imperial soldiers, basically saying they aren't nearly as capable as his men, and he does so in front of the captain leading the defense, the nerve of that nibba I swear.
Well, Balgruuf's neutrality makes sense, since he never joined the stormcloaks the empire had no right to attack him and most of Skyrim respects him as they see him as the embodiment of a true Nord so Ulfric wouldn't attack him without being certain of his position. According to the official game guide "his allegiance with the Empire as having actually convinced many would-be Stormcloaks that the Empire may actually be the answer to Skyrim's problems." meaning that Ulfric would have been a fool to attack him as it would hurt his standing with the people while the empire didn't have the right to attack him since he never rebelled. Not to mention that when the game starts Ulfric had been dealt with and the civil war was over but then Alduin attacked and Ulfric escaped which started the war all over again, If the dragons didn't come back Whiterun would have never been involved in the war anyways. So in reality Balgruuf had the right idea here.
As far as the children remaining in Dragonsreach, that's probably more Bethesda being Bethesda, and forgetting about them. But as for an in lore reason, it's probably because they would have remained behind as hostages.
@@kosaba11 That makes sense for scripting reasons. I am curious how you get the quest if you exile Balgruuf before you reach a high enough level to activate it.
Jarl Balgruuf, at most, is guilty of being a fence-sitter-not an idiot. He's facing a legitimate deliberation between what's best for Whiterun, his upbringing as a true Nord, and the return of the dragons. His "idiocy" is partially based on your belief that the Empire is undoubtedly the best for Skyrim, when some of the concessions that it brings is outright religious persecution and the ability of the Thalmor to enforce its own zealotry on the Empire's citizens. You can't blame Jarl Balgruuf for taking this blatant weakness of the Empire against the Dominion into consideration. Joining the Empire would mean throwing away Talos, the religious right of his citizens, and possibly allowing Justiciars into Whiterun in exchange for a reluctant "unity". It's this deliberation that makes Jarl Balgruuf one of the most considerate, inquisitive leaders that Skyrim has. He puts Whiterun first in all of the quests involved, fully siding with the Empire ONLY when Jarl Ulfric moves forward with his assault. When push comes to shove, he does side with Skyrim's unity because of the dragon threat and for the obligatory protection of Whiterun. It's probably why he hesitated agitating Jarl Ulfric by building higher walls and other war-ready infrastructure-the latter would have undoubtedly taken this construction as a sign of betrayal and planned the assault before any of it could be finished. He would have also put his people under needless panic and even demoralized the rebel supporters within the city. "The Jarl has sided with the Empire. The Jarl has abandoned Talos. The Jarl invites Ulfric and the Children of Skyrim to storm the city." You see this in Season Unending when he agrees with helping the Dragonborn to trap Odahviing ONLY if both sides of the Civil War agree to stand down until the dragon threat is ended. Of course, this quest is completely bypassed if Vignar Gray-Mane becomes Jarl. I can't say for certain what a Stormcloak supporting Jarl would have done in Balgruuf's position, but it wouldn't take away from the man's devotion for his citizens.
No, Denz is saying that Avarti's obsession with sucking the Empire's dick gets in the way of this review. Avarti's the kind of TH-camr who assumes his opinion is the correct one and that anything conflicting with that opinion is "idiocy".
@IRONHILLdwarf * Thanks for already identifying what side I am on based on trying to tell someone something they possibly don't know And morals in ES are terrible anyway so to say that really doesn't matter because with that argument I can say why nearly EVERY faction sucks But thanks for the reply
@RadTheLad Destroying them just returns them to their true owners, and that means someone else will get them soon, which is quite dangerous. I'd rather have them under my control
@RadTheLad Well that's just him being an idiot. He could just seal the blade behind a thick brick wall and no one would stumble upon it for at least a few centuries.
@@aurelian8297 no he had it right the first time. Sociopaths cant feel emotions so they are almost never happy or sympathetic. Psychopaths do feel emotions but they feel them to an extreme.
I was a bit peeved too. However, there was the point that Balgruuf should have picked a side a bit sooner. I liked Balgruuf's idea of maintaining neutrality, but he can't keep it forever given how both sides are. He needed to side with the Imperials sooner so that they could have a chance to improve defenses.
@@junieb9446 It isn't the USA or UK or any modern western country, you know. So you should not force your idea of what rights you have into a fantasy setting. Otherwise you'd have to destroy the stormcloaks for their racial bigotries that will cause a pogrom to cleanse skyrim. Plus the fact is that Ulric is an idiot. Deliberately TURNED idiot by psyops, but an idiot still. And his second in command is just a psycho.
Okay, I'm, as a history enthusiast who studies military history from late antiquity to WW2, gonna say this once. *Fire arrows don't do shit and don't set wooden buildings on fire*
Great video, I have to disagree though, here's why: The reason why Balgruuf doesn't rebuild the walls is because his hold does not have enough money. Whilst in dragonsreach you can hear him tell proventus that he can "scarcely afford to pay the guards." As for his children if the stormcloaks, he can be asked about this and you find out that he told his children to hide in the city so that Vignar does not hold them randsom. He does not talk to his son because he's too busy but still cares about him which is why he asks you to talk to him. He also probably has a sense of guilt talking to Nelkir and feels awkward because his son is a bastard. The only one I sort of agree with is his stance on the war because he is too personal in it and think from his own perspective rather than whiterun's. Balgruuf hates the thalmor but he also doesn't get along with Ulfric.
I thought that Balgruuf doesn't rebuild the walls because of dragon crisis, doing this would be stupid. Like, what's the points of the walls, if the enemy can just fly over them?
Ok I would agree with you but here are my counter points. Balgruuf not taking his children is more of a design error than anything else. Since there is a daedric quest involved with it. As for not talking to his child do you think a Jarl has time for family, like at all? You can tell most family of Jarls are neglected anyway so I don't think it's something associated with intelligence but rather a symptom of being a ruler. As for whiterun's disarray in terms of fortifications it still is quite defendable with the few watchtowers around it which most holds don't have also the fact that whiterun at least has walls compared to the many holds in Skyrim that don't. I don't think it's that Balgruuf was too naive of Ulfrics attack it's more along the lines of him believing that he could stall out the war by remaining neutral which makes sense since Ulfric's first priority was seizing the jagged crown, although he had plans to attack whiterun based on the sequence of quests the dragonborn has to go through as a stormcloak it's likely Balgruuf was expecting Ulfric to make his move but couldn't counter because he had to deal with the dragons, also because he could have been waiting on a pending trade for say like mortar to be able to fix up his walls anyway. Besides the main reason he probably didn't renforce his walls is because he was focussing on manpower, whiterun has the biggest territory to defend so it needs large amounts of personel. And Balgruuf has expressed intelligence on more than one occasion like during negotiations between the empire and the stormcloaks. And him not rushing to either side is still brilliant no matter how you write it. He isn't an idiot but he could be a fool at best.
Another bout of idiocy is that it is implied that only he and Farengar know of the Ebony Blades place in the Dragonsreach basement or at least they were in charge of keeping it safe, so we can assume that the best they did to (for lack of a better word) protect it was putting up a stack of hay, a few chairs and making two keys for the door. So there is some obvious negligence to keep it from people by also putting it in a semi-public place that people can enter, and giving the 2nd key to Farengar, given that Farengar has no guards and just his spells and an iron dagger for protection is stupid given how easy it was to kill him during the quest (this is optional, you can pickpocket the key from either of them). In my opinion they should’ve at least made it like the vault in the Thieves Guild Cistern where it requires both keys to unlock. So in conclusion if you have the weapon of an immortal daedric god in your basement maybe make sure your children don’t go down there daily. 1.And that’s another reason why Balgruuf is an idiot 2. For the next one maybe “Why Savos Aren is an idiot”
RadTheLad Esbern was on the run from Thalmor agents and was most likely tight on funds yet he still managed to get at least ten locks on that door in the Ratway, so the idea of a Jarl of a hold not having enough money to put two locks on a door is kind of weird.
To be fair, Mephala is a Daedric Prince. She could've just plopped the Ebony Blade back there to have better control of Nelkir, unbeknownst to anyone else in the castle.
So,think logically.Arrows fly at very high speeds through the sky and the wind from the travelspeed would just sniff out the arrow.Just like you would with a candle.And even if you manage to build an fire arrow that manages to still burn when reaching its target its either gonna be A:Too heavy to properly shoot,or B:It'll burn your hand and bow alongside,or C:The impact on the wood would sniff out the arrow too. The only way i can imagine a Fire arrow working is shot from a very high poundage bow because it needs too support the additional weight and length of the arrow so you dont burn yourself and the arrow isn't sniffed out by the wind.And even then itd probably only work on like huge hay bales or stacks of really dry timber.But i can see now way in hell that you would burn down a village with fire arrows.(except the roofs are made of hay/grass.Well, but like catapults shooting big burny things would probably work.
@@lelmao5023 hehe have you been watching lindybeige? I agree they weren't used against infantry like many games and shows make it seem, but there are many historical examples and ancient fire arrows which were actually used against stationary wooden targets
@@YelMalanta actually, that reason for the neutrality would fall apart right away if you decide to do the Civil War quests before finishing the rest of the Main Questline. At that point, there's no reason to remain neutral in the war because there was no peace talk with the Stormcloaks and Imperials.
@@DoctorWhoKage well yeah because you continued the war after the peace deal. I think anything peace related would fall apart if everyone would just start fighting again.
Balgruuf being neutral was SMART!!! He gets to be out of the war all the time, until the meddlesome DRAGONBORN gets involved. And only loses if you go Stormcloak. But I got no excuse for the broken walls. Never heard of Swiss Neutrality? Get rich and happy while everyone is being dumb and killing each other in WW1 and WW2. Balgruuf was loyal to his city, and understood being with the empire was much smarter, instead of destroying the empire from the inside with a civil war, just to make the Thalmor victory much easier.
He's no idiot. He might be a Lackluster father figure, but as a Jarl he's Outstanding. Considering the 2nd option that he wouldn't side with anyone. Would've ended up fighting the Stormcloak invasion with only his own soldiers. The fact he sucked up some of his pride and sided with the Imperials before it was too late, shows he's quite smart. He's also quite wise. He might have sided with the Empire, but he still hates the Thalmor just as much as Ulfric does, and worships Talos in secret. Balgruuf is basically Ulfric, if Ulfric wasn't an Idiot of how he handled the White-Gold Concordat.
Honestly I've seen Balgruuf's children staying behind as one of two things, either they're intended to be hostages to keep Balgruuf from attempting to retake the city or Bethesda was lazy and forgot to move them there in such a case. Though I do suppose it is possible that they didn't want to move them as it would interrupt the quest involving his son and rather than it cancelling the quest (because Gods forbid our choices have actual consequences) they just chose to leave them there. Of course, they could have solved that problem by simply adding some dialogue that again, said kids are hostages.
If you talk to Balgruuf in the basement of the Blue Palace he knows his kids are there, and implies that Vignar isn't even aware by saying he hopes they stay hidden because if Vignar finds him he's sure he'll ask a kings ransom for them. Which is just dumb to me, the kids have to eat, drink, use the chamber pot, they can't hide in the basement forever. There's no way they wouldn't be discovered. As for why Bethesda left them there, it's probably related to the cut content from the original whispering door quest. Originally all of the kids were supposed to be corrupted and kill Balgruuf. Bethesda probably just forgot to change the script that leaves them there after gutting Mephala's quest. They really should have just moved her blade and changed the quest.
Balgruuf is the best npc ive met 😭 bro basically gives you a title and a slave early game( who is my main stratergy in defeating frost trolls) and always adresses you as "my friend"
My only issue with this: Balgruuf felt shafted by the imperials, which does lead to the lack of willingness. Also, fire arrows aren't too effective anyway, lol.
@@JM-dy4ty without having seen this video in like a year, I don't remeber. But we are in a world where magic exists for that. Things like night eye, where you can see without needing a lightsource.
You're forgetting the fact that Balgruuf didn't have any guards stationed in Riverwood until Helgen. What if a bandit clan arrived in the city and decided to raze it?
Okay. So this is one, where i going to defend a bit: 1: As much i understood about Balgruuf staying neutral, he did it, to buy time, hoping a peacefull solution could be found. And he was in the position for it. Not only is Whiterun in such a vital position but Balgruuf was respected on both sides of the conflict. Ulfric actually waited for Balgruufs answer. Infact the whole civil war got only really hot when Balgruuf picked a side. Downside however was, that he had to keep the Imperials out of the city till he did. 2: The Walls and buildings are a bit of a problem. I beliefe, that Skyrim as a whole has a massiv problem regarding money, something you need to maintain such structures. STone doesn't just have to be mined, it has to shaped to be usefull. That takes time, effort, manpower and money. I beliefe the only the only two citys in skyrim able to maintane there fortifications like this are Solitude and Windhelm. Maybe Markath, but i don't really think they are really "maintane" the Dwemer structures as they just use them. This also explains why most buildings in Whiterun are made of wood. Cheaper and easier to get. 3: That being said, fire arrows are not an actual thing. At least not in the way most people seem to think of and by far not as effectiv. I would be more worried about catapults, magic user and greek fire. 4: His Children. Okay, while i have no real excuse for the psycho murder child, him leaving the children in Whiterun might not be his choice. See, there is a little thing called "political hostage" where a member of a noble family is held as a political or diplomatic leverage or as insurance token for the loyalty of that family. While it might just be gameplay, it would make sense to force Balgruuf into exile and keeping his children to ensure he doesn't try anything stupid. Fun fact: The later ruler of Japan Tokugawa Ieyasu was at the age of five kidnapped by the Oda clan to force his father to ally with the Odas. The thing is, they kidnapped him, when he was send to Imagawa clan, who basicly demanded Tokugawa as a token of loyalty (and so they could "educate" him to be loyal to the Imagawas). This proved to be a little problem for the Odas when the threat to kill Tokugawa backfired because his fathers answer was somewhat along the lines of: "Yeah, you can kill my son. But you do know, that this would only proof my loyalty to the Imagawa, right?" So, Tokugawa was basicly one year with the Odas, who didn't know what to do with him, till they could exchange him to the Imagawas for some other hostages. Funny enough, Tokugawa Ieyasu later allied with Oda Nobunaga against the Imagawas and kept being loyal till Nobunagas death. Without hostages.
I think the reason Balgruuf couldn't properly build up Whiterun's defenses because of the economic impact the war has had on Skyrim. Time and time again it's mentioned that most holds are struggling economically, even the Solitude and Windhelm, so Balgruuf decided to remain neutral in order to maximize the amount of trade he could receive. Even with this trade, however, the war has still left goods expensive and money tight, with Balgruuf himself admitting that Whiterun's coffers are nearly empty. Because of this, he likely wants to avoid joining the war because that would take an even greater economic hit in order to fund defensive or offensive campaigns, as well as possibly being Whiterun to heel if either side falters in their defense. It's a tenuous situation he's trying to maintain, and I think he knows it ultimately won't work. But he'll do his best anyway, because he's Jarl Ballin', the most honorable Jarl in all of Skyrim. As for his parenting, he's already trying to manage his hold during a civil war without and is without a spouse, so it's no wonder he hasn't had the time to pay attention to his child's every move or occasional odd phrase. Leaving his kids behind in Dragonsreach is probably just a gameplay error caused by Bethesda not paying attention.
1. Balgruuf has had no reason to repair the walls until the dragon crisis starts, which is right at the beginning of the game, and unless you deliberately avoid it, the dragon crisis can be ended in a matter of days. 2. Dragonsreach is meant to house a dragon but is made of wood. Yet it held another dragon, forget the name starts with an "N" I think, for several years and it never got burned down so clearly whatever wood they're using is either non-flamable or enchanted. 3. Jarl Balgruff stayed neutral because of trade, and how it would divide his city. By forcing Ulfric to force his hand, it wouldn't be as devisive because to his people it would look like he had no choice but to make a stand, as though the imperials do implore him to make a choice, Ulfric is the only one to threaten to attack him outright. 4. Him abandoning his children is clear dev oversight. As there is a deadric quest tied to one of his children, they have to stay in Whiterun. Otherwise you'd be running back and forth between Solitude, and especially for players who disable/don't use fast travel that would make the quest arduous and not worth completing.
One of the things that annoy me about the jarls in the game, is that non of them realize that you are the all powerful dragonborn or that the world is ending, maybe an intentional design decision but the lack of acknowledgement of the fact is ridiculous considering that we don't get to play the i am the dragonborn card except in certain story quests, we get to play the thane card but no the legendary hero card?
@@gokublack8342 yes but the dragonborn isn't an inter he saw at an event he is a legendary warrior prophesized kill the world eater, and no one pay more attention to this then ulfric because he is a Nord and also because we can accomplish what he took years of meditation to do by merely slaying one dragon what little acknowledgement he displays is pathetic when you put everything in perspective.
@@Osamathegamer Yeah I agree both sides shouldve practically been begging you to join them I could understand Tullius not really giving a crap but Rikke shouldve been like "Sir hes the Dragonborn we really need him to join us" etc
In defense of Balgruuf, in many medieval civil wars, it was common for a lord to, if possible, take in an enemy lord's children as "guests" (hostages) in order to make sure the enemy lord cannot take part in organizing or staging an invasion for fear of his children being killed.
Balgruuf might have been under too much political pressure from the Greymanes and Battle-Borns. Its implied they have perhaps even more say in the city than Balgruuf does. Siding with one or the other early would have marred tradition, something the Nords are obsessed with, and split the city in two, perhaps even causing a coup. Vignar Greymane seemed to be pretty convinced a coup was necessary when he showed up personally to dethrone Balgruuf.
1:20 - I actually have kind of an idea about why that may not be stupid though. There are both empire and stormcloak supporters in his city. Likely also people who are uncertain. By making Ulfric attack first, Ulfric becomes the aggressor in the eyes of the people of Whiterun and so accepting Imperial help likely becomes more tolerable to many.
About balgruuf remaining neutral: I think that's quite a wise choice. His providence is sitting right in the middle of the front line, meaning his people would see the most fighting in a prolonged war. Also with both sides being limited to two small fronts instead of a single large one, he keeps the conflict from further escalating, which can be seen in the game when whiterun either joins the Empire or falls to the stormcloaks, resulting in a series of battles either way. Furthermore, joining either side would have meant disgruntling either the Battleborns or the Graymanes, possibly even resulting in violence within whiterun itself. He also decided to stick with the empire when push came to shove, showing a good sense for the geopolitical situation in Tamriel.
@@hazzmati Here we go: 1. Neutrality - Going to agree with this one. Siding with the Imperials could give him more tactical advantage by having more time to prepare in case of a Stormcloak attack. 2. Not repairing the walls - Repairs doesn't come cheap. Balgruuf can barely pay the city guards and provide other necessities. 3. Leaving the kids behind - Perhaps the kids are kept as "hostages", ensuring Balgruuf will behave well while in exile. It's common practice back then.
@Ahmad the redguard 2- That armor came from his personal armory. Whiterun's coffers are nearly empty, he doesn't have the funds. 3- And then a Stormcloak or bandit raiding party sees them in the wilderness, and they are captured. That sure is a great idea you have there.
@Ahmad the redguard Actually the armor reward for bringing the news is leveled (Got an elven at one time). The farms outside Whiterun aren't that good either. Much of the food comes from the south - Cyrodiil the Empire's breadbasket. Bandits kill the caravans while pirates control the seas. Skyrim's economy isn't feeling good. Balgruuf should definitely send his kids to Honorhall just for Grelod to torment them and behave properly.
@Hazzmati well, by choosing a side in the war it would cause a rift between his people. And being the trade hub of Skyrim if he did demonise one side Skyrim would lose a lot of market. And I don’t know if you’ve noticed but Skyrim basically relies on trade have u seen the climate? Whiteruns three farms aren’t going to feed the whole hold you know 😂😂. And despite the walls being in disrepair they are sturdy enough to hold against the stormcloaks if you choose imperials. The jarl takes the side of the correct army too, im afraid if you choose stormcloak you are a short sided idiot which balgruuf isn’t. Leaving his kids behind has no correlation to being an idiot, selfish maybe, but not idiotic so I don’t know why it’s mentioned.
Sorry, I had to dislike this time, this video seems a bit of a stretch, almost clickbait imho. 1. First of all, the "Whiterun weak defences" point is not imputable to Ballgruuf, rather is Bethesda's very bad design. They seems not know how to do good city defences, try to look at other skyrim city defences, or fort dawnguard, they are pretty inaccurate and awful by a militar point of view (for further information see the analysis of user Shadiversity). Some of them doesn't even have defensive walls. 2. For the ebony blade, in my opinion Ballgruuf made the wisest choice confiding in Farengar, who was the best choice for magical stuff. Consider also the ebony blade were unbreakable, so lock it in dragonsreach was the only choice. 3.I do not understand why keep his children in the palace is so idiotic choice. Obviously in a real palace no one is afforded to enter except a small group of entrusted people, so there would not be risk of being the children kidnapped or murdered. But for gameplay esigences, you are allowed to enter because you're the PC. Anyway, no other seems to enter dragonsreach in game except the Player. 4."Ally early with the Empire", this seems your only valid argument, but is a bit exagerated imho. So, it seems unfair to state Ballgruuf is an Idiot with such weak arguments. Rather, I'd had expect a video centered on actual skyrim idots, like Laila Law-Giver or Silus Vesuius (the one who summons Merhunes Dagon)
The reason why he leaves his children is because of 1. The melapha quest 2. Bethesda forgot to move his children to the blue palace. Also in the unofficial patch mod his children come with him to the blue palace.
I would like to make note that the Jarl /was/ aware of Ulfric's possibility of attacking. That's part of why he wants both sides to have a truce when you're catching the dragon - he's worries Whiterun will be taken advantage of during that time. He is well aware of the danger and during the Civil War quest line, there's that whole thing with sending his axe to Ulfric before the Battle for Whiterun - that's what actually kicks off that battle.
Balgruuf never was neutral. He was always an ally of the Imperials. I don't know what exactly he says in english dub but in the german version he makes his standpoint clear. When you attack whiterun you have impdrial soldiers there fighting against you, don't you? What kind of proof would someone need more. He did side with one of the sides. And he did prepare for war. He did take Ulfric seriously while proventus thought that ulfric woudn't really attack. He did reply to ulftic with a NO and in the same moment asked for help from Thulius. He even says that the nords themselves are imperials, implying that they are already rooted to deep into this land, that the nords are now imperials themselves. I think his standpoint was quite clear tbh
There's a problem with one of your points, that being the idea to replace the wooden frames of houses with stone ones. That's ridiculous considering both time and resources, in-game it is specifically mentioned that the treasury is stretched thin as it is, so Balgruuf would have to pay for both masons and the stone required for it, which could also combat the point you made on the walls as well. Neither comes cheap, not to mention the most important aspect being time.
If the imperials had been in the city sooner, it might have convinced the stormcloaks-siding citizens to leave the city to join ulfric, therefore precipitating the attack even sooner as well
Please please please make Mephala is a Genuis video. A video on how Mephala is actually one of the best and smartest daedric princes becaese of her centuries of succession regarding the Dark Brotherhood. I know her being the Night Mother is a "theory" (even a theory video is still fun) but i firmly believe Mephala is the one tricking everyone about Sithis and The Night Mother. The Void is a real place as we know in TES lore but I think Mephala created the idea of an afterlife regarding The Void, even in death Dark Brotherhood members are clueless we know that for sure because of even Lucien Lachance still refrencing The Void as where he resides in the afterlife. Even in ESO, an old shrine of Sithis is made to resemble the spider arms of Mephala, which just adds to the "theory". Mephala made up Sithis and The Night Mother to watch chaos unfold, because thats the one thing she (as do all daedric princes) love. They love watching the chaos they created. Mephala is using the traits of her sphere to succeed in tricking more devotees and she has been succeeding for centuries. Youre my favorite TES Lore channel and you seem like on the of the smartest ones with a big following so I would love to see more people discussing this outside of threads
"Balgruuf's child isn't right in the head"
*90% of Skyrim NPC's summed up in one sentance*
90% is a bit too fair. More like 110%.
90% of Skyrim NPC:s are Balgruuf's children?
Or literally any Bethesda npc
Good god, the rescue NPC quests you get from the Companions quest line. Had one from the town on one side of the thermal springs area that I had to rescue on the other side of that. Just give me some vampires to fight or something and we will be fine.
@@tarmelkor Yes, because Balgruuf is daddy
Balgruuf claims to be neutral, but all of Whiterun's guards carry Imperial weapons, and the bard sings Imperial songs ...
But he also allows Heimskr to preach about Talos 🤔
It's because the Imperials consider anyone who doesn't outright side with them as a traitor/stormcloak, so the best they can do is be imperial but (try) to avoid fighting stormcloaks.
Ulfric tried to force Balgruuf to join the Stormcloaks though so I wouldn’t say the Imperials are wrong by doing that . They’d obviously like to know who is with them and against them .
@@arabiannights5301 I'm sure he's a Thalmor spy. He'll just tip off the Thalmor whenever anyone is praying at the shrine. (And who tf has a leveled poison and a skull inside his house?)
@@rufus7207 Other way around, bud. The Stormcloaks consider all who don't side with them an enemy.
*insults jarl ballin'* "you have commited crimes against Skyrim and her people! What say you in your defence?"
@Tw1 "okay, we'll look the other way but just this once! even the Thane has their limits."
@@CS-nq9sq
Wait, Don't let'im off the Hook that easily.
He must make a Fancy French Draw of Jarl Balgruuf at once!
Then He'll be free to go.
@@kilo1901 This one thinks that a good idea- khajiit guard of Whiterun
Here is a ton of gold to look the other way.
jarl ballin xD
I suppose the state of Whiterun could be more due to Bethesda's laziness when it came to the civil war storyline. Let's be honest, it's just a collection of fort capture missions with 2 city invasions. Nothing really special.
This is why my version is the best.
You start off by rising through the ranks to Legate. Then you do Radiant, and Scripted Missions at a War Table sending troops, and agents to fight and gather Intel. The First Battle is Whiterun. Each city can be taken through three methods.
City Takeover (Only possible when other side has lower troops than you)
Espionage (Gather Intel on each jarl)
Taking over all forts in hold forcing a surrender (Easiest but long)
What sucks is that there is data for a much more expanded storyline for the civil war quest line that was scrapped before launch. Every city could be captured for the opposing side, but Bethesda always gotta ruin their possibly interesting quest lines.
@@devinschaefer5646 Very true, though there is a mod that re-activates a lot of the cut content. It's sad really that the modding community seemed to be able to do more than the devs can. Though maybe they couldn't get it to work before it was shipped.
@@enikata7349 its extremely buggy there is a reason they didn't have it in the game.
I was only disappointed that I couldn't take control of a hold and become a jarl myself. I really wanted that.😓😓😓
This one's going to be controversial.
He makes some reasonable statements as to why Balgruuf is naive though
Hes a idiot but not really malicius and is a great ally
I’ll take Naivety over malicious ignorance of past idiots in this series.
@@CloudyDaze It's just a matter of interpretation, and the game is written in vanilla to let you interpret it as you see fit. I always see Balgruuf as someone who's sympathetic to the the Stormcloak cause, but thinks that Ulfric is a shady MF. But the same thing goes for Ulfric, the game gives you enough evidence either way to cast Ulfric as a hero or a villain.
@@publiusdraco2557 Well on taking in everything he usually gives the feeling a villain since he does some incredibly stupid things, like even starting this civil war for no real reason in a forceful way to make the imperials to act and weakening skyrim and the empire for the second great war he knows is happening...
Actually, balgruuf does want to strengthen the walls especially once dragons show up. When you tell him about Helgen, he turns to proventus and says, "What do you say now, Proventus? Shall we continue to trust in the strength of our walls? Against a dragon?" It is implied that balgruuf doesn't increase the strength of the walls on Proventus's word that they will stand strong
*Helgan not Riften
Checking out that double roast
Proventus is the real idiot, honestly. You can see he has no idea about politics, though he's not bad person.
Really fortifying walls against a flying threat is just dumb. They would fly over it and set the whole wooden city ablaze anyway. It would make no difference
@@karlpoppins Even Balgruuf's brother thinks like that. Proventus takes advice from a damn blacksmith.
U crossed the line there buddy
+Tranz Tranz
It happens.
Same with Jauffre lol
I was just about to comment it. Well played.
Literally what we all were thinking
I feel like they based Bayek's, from Assassin's Creed Origins, design on the hide armor from Skyrim.
I’d like to counter your points listed in the video.
1. Neutrality: Jarl Balgruf wasn’t naive in the Civil War by ignoring Ulfric’s messengers. He didn’t want to be involved with it in any way. He was putting off BOTH the Stormcloaks and Imperials requests, and wished to remain “Independent” Of either faction. Balgruf also knows that the Stormcloaks themselves would only attack if he outright refuses Ulfric his allegiance, leading me to believe that Balgruf is trying to maintain a fleeting Peace while governing his city against the Dragon Crisis. A move I think anyone would say is common, as it’s difficult to run a Hold and fight flying and fire breathing beasts at the same time as a War rages. Ulfric is a violent, yet Traditional man, and Balgruf takes advantage of this by not giving Ulfric any direct answer.
Regarding the Imperial Missive, and the information given to Balgruf by the Imperials: Note that the Imperial Missive brought up in this video is liable to change depending on the faction chosen, as it can lead to the note reading that the Pale Pass is clear, and the army can be summoned at any time, or that the pass is blocked off and can’t reach Skyrim for some time. The missive is found in the Captain’s quarters for Fort Neugrad, the fort under Imperial Occupation close to the Border of Cyrodiil during the Civil War quest line. Even so, this Missive is only made public to the player upon finding it in the quarters, either by raiding the Fort as a Stormcloak, or pillaging it from Bandits before the quest line begins. This makes the note a bit situational, as the Imperials know they could also hand this Information to Balgruf at any time. And during the Civil War it’s led to believe that the reports given to Balgruf detail that the Stormcloaks intend to raid the city if Balgruf does not accept Ulfric’s claim as High King, and ally himself to Ulfric. If anything, Balgruf’s guard’s didn’t notice any Stormcloak spies surveying the area, or simply didn’t report it as the spies blended in well, being that most soldiers on both sides of the war in Skyrim are Farmers, and Veteran soldiers that are years out of practice and aged.
2. The State of the City: This isn’t him being exactly stupid, as we see he also has two counselors when it comes to Relations to other Holds. Proventus, and his Thane Iryleth. As we see during dialogue between the three, Balgruf is of the nature of fighting only if he cannot avoid it. He also holds true to the old Nordic belief of being challenged and facing off against a challenger to his rule in fair combat. Proventus however maintains a stance of caution. Proventus warns Balgruf that any fortification of his city, or villages could be seen as a front to Falkreath, and a possible declaration of war. Iryleth however takes a more War-Hawk nature when addressing dangers to Balgruf or the City of Whiterun. She will often counter-point Proventus when they discuss the protection of the city or the Politics of the Civil War with Balgruf, as she wished to keep the hold and its men in top shape. With two very prominent figures in his ears, Balgruf often takes the route he feels is needed, such as fortifying Riverwood, even if it’s only slightly. In some dialogue he can also be heard addressing his brother (Who requests Balgruf send some troops to the front lines to assist the Legion and have the Companions guard the City in their absence, however I believe this dialogue isn’t in the base game, but rather reintroduced by Citizen Dialogue overhaul and Cutting Room Floor) by telling him he doesn’t wish for his forces to be spread thin, as he fears this would allow the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild to run rampant. He also isn’t foolish enough to try and lay siege to Windhelm, as Proventus questions during the Civil War quest line, and only responds to the Imperials when he finally knows it’s Impossible to remain neutral any longer.
Addressing his Hold Whiterun itself, I do agree with you. I think that the city is actually very easy to raid if you’re scaling the walls, and many walls are not on an elevated Hill, making a siege engine or siege tower useful in raiding the city in a realistic scenario.
Regarding Avarti’s point with the Stormcloaks using Fire Arrows: Fire Arrows are not entirely possible in real life. Arrows are often made of easily burning material, or can’t sustain being burned for long, and are too brittle to do any serious damage, aside from needing to be lit and fired from primarily *wooden* bows. They also launch Burning oil jars via catapults, which accomplish a far more effective role that fire arrows ever could. And as for claiming the Creation Club arrows could be used, they are purchase only DLC, and not something buried in the in-game files and used via gameplay restorative mods such as Cutting Room Floor. And if I take them into account, it’s also useful to know that only bandits and mercenaries using Bows have a chance at spawning any unique elemental arrows. And I have not seen any soldiers of any faction using Elemental Arrows, thus I will not entertain the idea here.
3. Balgruf’s relationship to his Children: During the quest line of the Whispering Lady, and Main Quests, we get to meet each of Balgruf’s children. They are all very snobby and arrogant, as Balgruf’s daughter can’t tell you from a Hero and a Servant. We do hear however Balgruf does give them gifts at the least occasionally, as overheard dialogue between Balgruf’s Eldest Son and Daughter. This could indicate that Balgruf may spoil them to win their affection. It entails that Balgruf does promise his Daughter dresses, and has the staff of Dragonsreach cater to her whims. As for his Eldest Son, he is not allowed to learn swordplay, but can learn how to fight with his hands when spoken to. The only son that seems to have awful relations with Balgruf is his Youngest Son, who often sneaks through the castle and listens in on secrets. It’s also known that he has a different mother than Balgruf’s other children. This leads me to believe that Balgruf feels conflicted with his Son, as when asked about him, he confides to the player his youngest son had been lashing out more at him and those he meets, and becoming more violent toward Balgruf himself. Balgruf likely does not offer much attention to his Children, and in all likeliness, even less to his youngest son, but this is more likely due to Balgruf mostly running Whiterun Hold, and not having any actual time to relax or play with his children.
Regarding the son corrupted by Mephala: It’s not wrong to assume that this child is Psychotic. He’s far more aggressive than his siblings, and verbally lashes out at the player when approached or spoken to. However, pulling from my own personal experiences living with a child who acts much like Balgruf’s youngest son, his actions likely spawn from Balgruf not spending time with or talking to his son, as my own nephew has these problems stem from not having a father or a solid positive influence in his life. Given their relationship, Balgruf also likely feels guilty for not having a Wife to help raise his children as a dual parent household would. Balgruf likely can’t make time to be a father due to his role as Jarl of Whiterun.
(No other Jarl in the game has *young* children might I add, and being a Single Father Of three, “with no wife ever mentioned in-game or in cut dialogue” and a Ruler is not easy for anyone to deal with I imagine.)
TL;DR: Balgruf not being a good father to his youngest son can likely be attributed to his lack of time or communication with his children, and having no wife to help him raise their children, and not entirely born out of neglect.
Regarding his children remaining at Dragonsreach and him fleeing to Solitude if defeated at the Battle for Whiterun (Stormcloak Victory): There is no “real” explanation to this except Bethesda likely having not implemented the children to accompany Balgruf to Solitude. But if there’s an in-game explanation, I’ve never found it or heard it. But my theory is that the Gray-mane family took Balgruf’s children as Leverage so Balgruf couldn’t reliably mount an effort to reclaim his city, and his children are now being held as Hostages. Likely making Balgruf wary of attacking, as it could result in the death of his children.
In conclusion: I don’t agree with several points in this video, but I will not say that Avarti’s points are without simple reason. I simply wanted to provide my input in the matter, and forgive my spelling if you notice any mistakes, as I am on mobile and can’t make checks without discarding the whole comment. In any case, these are my thoughts, opinions and speculation, and if any evidence proves to the contrary please tell me. Thanks for reading my hour long writing prompt telling you why I think Avarti is wrong and focusing on surface level topics and basic flaws in the game left by Bethesda. A nice video nonetheless. Have a lovely day.
That is a good post. I find your comments on neutrality insightful. Balgruuf did indeed know that Ulfric, for all his violent warrior ways, was still a very traditional dude who would respect the old school code. Many people miss this.
Yeah ulfric is nord as nord comes. Think people kind of forget how much nord code ulfric respects. His philosophy his actions all stem from that. Balgruuf was like yeah that dude is like william wallace from brave heart. Im not shitting on him lol.
Why I think Jarl Balwhatever is an idiot:
Neutrality: He wants to play the neutral card but isn't strong enough to fend for himself and truly achieveve indepence from both the imperials and the stormcloaks, relying on mercenary work (the dragonborn, before it was known to anyone they were indeed dragonborn) to do something as mundane as retrieving a stone and something slightly bigger as slaying a dragon.
"Aight sick message courier, truth be told, there are about 50 whiterun guards lurking around but I'm gonna send you and four poor fucks to kill a dragon even though we've never fought one before, good luck, imma be sitting on my throne doing nothing until either you or the dragon die."
He's a dick
His housecarl is also a dick
His bald advisor is annoying
His face ugly
When Ulfric threatens to finally attack whiterun he shat his pants and dropped his "strong independent jarl" facade. And if you picked the imperial side you can even hear him mocking the imperial soldiers, basically saying they aren't nearly as capable as his men, and he does so in front of the captain leading the defense, the nerve of that nibba I swear.
Well, Balgruuf's neutrality makes sense, since he never joined the stormcloaks the empire had no right to attack him and most of Skyrim respects him as they see him as the embodiment of a true Nord so Ulfric wouldn't attack him without being certain of his position. According to the official game guide "his allegiance with the Empire as having actually convinced many would-be Stormcloaks that the Empire may actually be the answer to Skyrim's problems." meaning that Ulfric would have been a fool to attack him as it would hurt his standing with the people while the empire didn't have the right to attack him since he never rebelled.
Not to mention that when the game starts Ulfric had been dealt with and the civil war was over but then Alduin attacked and Ulfric escaped which started the war all over again, If the dragons didn't come back Whiterun would have never been involved in the war anyways. So in reality Balgruuf had the right idea here.
Underrated comment. This deserves more likes.
Jarl Balgruff may be an idiot....
But He Be BALLIN'!!
Swag!
fatguysay damn it someone said it. I’ll still comment it anyways.
Can I draw you like one of my French girls?
Haters gonna hate, oww!
I'm Lord of the Reefer! Holler if you need me
Ow swag ow swag
I appreciate your hard work in revealing skyrim idiots, but u crossed the line with Jarl Ballin, I believe
As far as the children remaining in Dragonsreach, that's probably more Bethesda being Bethesda, and forgetting about them. But as for an in lore reason, it's probably because they would have remained behind as hostages.
This is basically how I thought of it. Oh the kids are political hostages to make sure Balgruuf doesn't retaliate.
It probably is an oversight since the children, or at least Nelkir has to be there for you to do the Mephala quest.
@@kosaba11 That makes sense for scripting reasons. I am curious how you get the quest if you exile Balgruuf before you reach a high enough level to activate it.
@Son Gohan well, her children are adults. Of course they'll go with her
@Son Gohan What if the Empire is stupid and doesn't use political hostages?
Jarl Balgruuf, at most, is guilty of being a fence-sitter-not an idiot. He's facing a legitimate deliberation between what's best for Whiterun, his upbringing as a true Nord, and the return of the dragons. His "idiocy" is partially based on your belief that the Empire is undoubtedly the best for Skyrim, when some of the concessions that it brings is outright religious persecution and the ability of the Thalmor to enforce its own zealotry on the Empire's citizens.
You can't blame Jarl Balgruuf for taking this blatant weakness of the Empire against the Dominion into consideration. Joining the Empire would mean throwing away Talos, the religious right of his citizens, and possibly allowing Justiciars into Whiterun in exchange for a reluctant "unity". It's this deliberation that makes Jarl Balgruuf one of the most considerate, inquisitive leaders that Skyrim has. He puts Whiterun first in all of the quests involved, fully siding with the Empire ONLY when Jarl Ulfric moves forward with his assault.
When push comes to shove, he does side with Skyrim's unity because of the dragon threat and for the obligatory protection of Whiterun. It's probably why he hesitated agitating Jarl Ulfric by building higher walls and other war-ready infrastructure-the latter would have undoubtedly taken this construction as a sign of betrayal and planned the assault before any of it could be finished. He would have also put his people under needless panic and even demoralized the rebel supporters within the city. "The Jarl has sided with the Empire. The Jarl has abandoned Talos. The Jarl invites Ulfric and the Children of Skyrim to storm the city."
You see this in Season Unending when he agrees with helping the Dragonborn to trap Odahviing ONLY if both sides of the Civil War agree to stand down until the dragon threat is ended. Of course, this quest is completely bypassed if Vignar Gray-Mane becomes Jarl. I can't say for certain what a Stormcloak supporting Jarl would have done in Balgruuf's position, but it wouldn't take away from the man's devotion for his citizens.
In this statement are you arguing that the "Nord's" were in the right?
No, Denz is saying that Avarti's obsession with sucking the Empire's dick gets in the way of this review. Avarti's the kind of TH-camr who assumes his opinion is the correct one and that anything conflicting with that opinion is "idiocy".
You know that the Empire has a plan to overthrow the Thalmor right?
Season Unending isn't bypassed if Vignar is Jarl. He just takes his place. I've done it a number of times
@IRONHILLdwarf * Thanks for already identifying what side I am on based on trying to tell someone something they possibly don't know
And morals in ES are terrible anyway so to say that really doesn't matter because with that argument I can say why nearly EVERY faction sucks
But thanks for the reply
Uh oh, you're treading a fine line buckaroo
This feels more like a vague threat with that pfp
Don't worry Balgruuf. I threw that cursed sword in the lava pool behind the Aetherium forge.
I keep them all. Ultimate power!
@RadTheLad Destroying them just returns them to their true owners, and that means someone else will get them soon, which is quite dangerous. I'd rather have them under my control
@RadTheLad Well that's just him being an idiot. He could just seal the blade behind a thick brick wall and no one would stumble upon it for at least a few centuries.
@RadTheLad Yeah, that's because he didn't do it. Can you read?
The artifacts are better in a random cabin in the wilderness(my storage house).
for some reason i was defensive seeing this title :D
I was fuming
I don't feel emotions I must be a sociopath.
@@samueljonathan6101 *psychopath
@@aurelian8297 no he had it right the first time. Sociopaths cant feel emotions so they are almost never happy or sympathetic. Psychopaths do feel emotions but they feel them to an extreme.
I was a bit peeved too. However, there was the point that Balgruuf should have picked a side a bit sooner. I liked Balgruuf's idea of maintaining neutrality, but he can't keep it forever given how both sides are. He needed to side with the Imperials sooner so that they could have a chance to improve defenses.
Bro... You crossed a line with this one chief
How dare u insult the great Jarl Ballin send the guards 😂
Mauro Molinero understandable but I was generally telling the truth
Mauro Molinero okay I will 😂
Mauro Molinero I even got rid of it 😂
@ Are we talking about the emoji? If so, yeah you're completely right.
Obi-Wan Kenobi why have people got be so rude like over one thing I took it off what more do u want 🤦♂️
JARL BALLIN IS NO FOOL U HAVE COMMITED CRIMES AGAINST SKYRIM AND HER PEOPLE
Flames Of Chaos what
Avarti should PAY WITH HIS BLOOD
Hayden’s Mobile games gameplay YES
*THEN PAY WITH YOUR BLOOD*
You should do why the lady that tried to execute you at the beginning of the game is an idiot
That is why you escape with the stormcloaks so you can kill her
@@Salty-Doggy exactly
@Ahmad the redguard that's not as fun besides you don't really need to pick a side until you get the crown
For real. "This prisoner isn't on the list? Execute them anyways"
@@junieb9446 It isn't the USA or UK or any modern western country, you know. So you should not force your idea of what rights you have into a fantasy setting. Otherwise you'd have to destroy the stormcloaks for their racial bigotries that will cause a pogrom to cleanse skyrim. Plus the fact is that Ulric is an idiot. Deliberately TURNED idiot by psyops, but an idiot still. And his second in command is just a psycho.
Okay, I'm, as a history enthusiast who studies military history from late antiquity to WW2, gonna say this once.
*Fire arrows don't do shit and don't set wooden buildings on fire*
Yes, but they can still be dangerous because they don't always go out.
Besides, this is Skyrim. You think anything here is realistic?
@@warrioroflight6872 Fire arrows are badass
Ironic your name is robespierre
@@byzantinehistorian2755Hmm so skill issue?
Fine send fire mages instead
Sees the title: *Crys on the inside*
*hugs*
Unzips
OMG RIgHT
@@andrejzizenstock9067 no dont
lol weakling
Great video, I have to disagree though, here's why:
The reason why Balgruuf doesn't rebuild the walls is because his hold does not have enough money. Whilst in dragonsreach you can hear him tell proventus that he can "scarcely afford to pay the guards."
As for his children if the stormcloaks, he can be asked about this and you find out that he told his children to hide in the city so that Vignar does not hold them randsom.
He does not talk to his son because he's too busy but still cares about him which is why he asks you to talk to him. He also probably has a sense of guilt talking to Nelkir and feels awkward because his son is a bastard. The only one I sort of agree with is his stance on the war because he is too personal in it and think from his own perspective rather than whiterun's. Balgruuf hates the thalmor but he also doesn't get along with Ulfric.
I thought that Balgruuf doesn't rebuild the walls because of dragon crisis, doing this would be stupid. Like, what's the points of the walls, if the enemy can just fly over them?
I am the Jaaaaarl of Whiterun, and I am just BALLIN BALLIN BALLIN
Honey, I'm Looord of the Rings.
Swag!!!
Holla if you need me
Haters gonna hate
Honestly, knowing Balgruuf's children, I'd want to leave them behind, too.
B-But he's jarl ballin...
I like Barlgruff but yeah didnt strike me as a genius, just loyal to the nord people and a good king.
My mans Avarti is dissin my main man Balgruuf? Ah, I still love it, despite. Keep up this fantastic work.
Thanks!
@@AvartiPlaysGames you have committed crimes against whiterun and its people what say you in your defense
Ok I would agree with you but here are my counter points.
Balgruuf not taking his children is more of a design error than anything else. Since there is a daedric quest involved with it.
As for not talking to his child do you think a Jarl has time for family, like at all? You can tell most family of Jarls are neglected anyway so I don't think it's something associated with intelligence but rather a symptom of being a ruler.
As for whiterun's disarray in terms of fortifications it still is quite defendable with the few watchtowers around it which most holds don't have also the fact that whiterun at least has walls compared to the many holds in Skyrim that don't. I don't think it's that Balgruuf was too naive of Ulfrics attack it's more along the lines of him believing that he could stall out the war by remaining neutral which makes sense since Ulfric's first priority was seizing the jagged crown, although he had plans to attack whiterun based on the sequence of quests the dragonborn has to go through as a stormcloak it's likely Balgruuf was expecting Ulfric to make his move but couldn't counter because he had to deal with the dragons, also because he could have been waiting on a pending trade for say like mortar to be able to fix up his walls anyway. Besides the main reason he probably didn't renforce his walls is because he was focussing on manpower, whiterun has the biggest territory to defend so it needs large amounts of personel.
And Balgruuf has expressed intelligence on more than one occasion like during negotiations between the empire and the stormcloaks.
And him not rushing to either side is still brilliant no matter how you write it. He isn't an idiot but he could be a fool at best.
Deathstar 699 this is exactly how I feel about it, it’s not a lack of intelligence at all it’s all down to how good of a leader he is.
Oh no...
This feels like... Like someone stole my sweet-roll 😓
Don't know dude. First my bois the orcs now jarl ballin.
Jarljarllin
Another bout of idiocy is that it is implied that only he and Farengar know of the Ebony Blades place in the Dragonsreach basement or at least they were in charge of keeping it safe, so we can assume that the best they did to (for lack of a better word) protect it was putting up a stack of hay, a few chairs and making two keys for the door. So there is some obvious negligence to keep it from people by also putting it in a semi-public place that people can enter, and giving the 2nd key to Farengar, given that Farengar has no guards and just his spells and an iron dagger for protection is stupid given how easy it was to kill him during the quest (this is optional, you can pickpocket the key from either of them). In my opinion they should’ve at least made it like the vault in the Thieves Guild Cistern where it requires both keys to unlock. So in conclusion if you have the weapon of an immortal daedric god in your basement maybe make sure your children don’t go down there daily.
1.And that’s another reason why Balgruuf is an idiot
2. For the next one maybe “Why Savos Aren is an idiot”
@RadTheLad A Jarl can't afford a better door to keep a daedric weapon safe?
RadTheLad Esbern was on the run from Thalmor agents and was most likely tight on funds yet he still managed to get at least ten locks on that door in the Ratway, so the idea of a Jarl of a hold not having enough money to put two locks on a door is kind of weird.
To be fair, Mephala is a Daedric Prince. She could've just plopped the Ebony Blade back there to have better control of Nelkir, unbeknownst to anyone else in the castle.
2:58 no,just no.Fire arrows don't exist and will never work.You can watch qite a lot of videos on youtube that explain whyy really well.
Finally somebody understands!
They do work... They were used to burn down wooden buildings and wooden seige
So,think logically.Arrows fly at very high speeds through the sky and the wind from the travelspeed would just sniff out the arrow.Just like you would with a candle.And even if you manage to build an fire arrow that manages to still burn when reaching its target its either gonna be A:Too heavy to properly shoot,or
B:It'll burn your hand and bow alongside,or C:The impact on the wood would sniff out the arrow too.
The only way i can imagine a Fire arrow working is shot from a very high poundage bow because it needs too support the additional weight and length of the arrow so you dont burn yourself and the arrow isn't sniffed out by the wind.And even then itd probably only work on like huge hay bales or stacks of really dry timber.But i can see now way in hell that you would burn down a village with fire arrows.(except the roofs are made of hay/grass.Well, but like catapults shooting big burny things would probably work.
@@lelmao5023 hehe have you been watching lindybeige? I agree they weren't used against infantry like many games and shows make it seem, but there are many historical examples and ancient fire arrows which were actually used against stationary wooden targets
Oh yeh ur right of course
Can we just say that most people in Skyrim aren't exactly all there in the head?
Seems like the only smart being in Skyrim is an old lizard on top of a mountain.
@@MrRemicas and a werewolf
@ I thought those were Orcs.
@ wtf
Shit writing yes?
1:24 If Balgruuf was smart, he would've accepted the axe.
I always thought he was quite smart . He was always loyal to his people above all else.
Avarti is right though , he should have picked a side from the start .
J 19 I disagree he’s the main reason you have the storm cloaks and the imperials have a peace talk in the main story to begin with
Fair point but it would have given the Imperials more time to prepare for the siege of Whiterun .
@@YelMalanta actually, that reason for the neutrality would fall apart right away if you decide to do the Civil War quests before finishing the rest of the Main Questline. At that point, there's no reason to remain neutral in the war because there was no peace talk with the Stormcloaks and Imperials.
@@DoctorWhoKage well yeah because you continued the war after the peace deal. I think anything peace related would fall apart if everyone would just start fighting again.
You can't blame him, he was teased by other kids while picking pretty daisies in France.
No one insults jarl Ballin his swag level is over 9000
Balgruff ain’t no idiot! He easily one of the smartest people in all Skyrim!
Fire arrows.
Aren’t a thing.
Even in history most castles were wooden
Yes fire arrows are not super common, but you know what is? Mages. At least in other armies that aren't stormcloaks
Used during sieges.
Plus the stormcloaks fire huge fireballs during the siege and only a few houses were destroyed
Fire arrows are very much real and were used during sieges as a distraction method.
Balgruuf being neutral was SMART!!! He gets to be out of the war all the time, until the meddlesome DRAGONBORN gets involved. And only loses if you go Stormcloak.
But I got no excuse for the broken walls.
Never heard of Swiss Neutrality? Get rich and happy while everyone is being dumb and killing each other in WW1 and WW2.
Balgruuf was loyal to his city, and understood being with the empire was much smarter, instead of destroying the empire from the inside with a civil war, just to make the Thalmor victory much easier.
He might be an idiot, but he's my, and most players' favorite Jarl. I blame Bethesda's writing. Nice video though.
Balgruuf abandoning his children may be a Stormcloack demand. A way to ensure he doesn't return to reclaim his throne.
Ya that makes sense. Taking wives or children as hostages was a common thing in Medieval times.
By the name of the jarl stop right there,
Apologize or pay your fine!
Down with Balgruuf the Blind! Balgruuf the Lesser!
Hail Jarl Vignar Gray-Mane!
So now you are basically saying that Skyrim is made of *badly written* Characters.
Well, Time to watch „What if Skyrim was good“ again..
Well... It is.
Rafael Leal th-cam.com/video/go27bgPJTPY/w-d-xo.html
@@maxkernfeld7928 I know about that. I'm a subscriber.
He's no idiot. He might be a Lackluster father figure, but as a Jarl he's Outstanding.
Considering the 2nd option that he wouldn't side with anyone. Would've ended up fighting the Stormcloak invasion with only his own soldiers.
The fact he sucked up some of his pride and sided with the Imperials before it was too late, shows he's quite smart.
He's also quite wise. He might have sided with the Empire, but he still hates the Thalmor just as much as Ulfric does, and worships Talos in secret. Balgruuf is basically Ulfric, if Ulfric wasn't an Idiot of how he handled the White-Gold Concordat.
Honestly I've seen Balgruuf's children staying behind as one of two things, either they're intended to be hostages to keep Balgruuf from attempting to retake the city or Bethesda was lazy and forgot to move them there in such a case.
Though I do suppose it is possible that they didn't want to move them as it would interrupt the quest involving his son and rather than it cancelling the quest (because Gods forbid our choices have actual consequences) they just chose to leave them there. Of course, they could have solved that problem by simply adding some dialogue that again, said kids are hostages.
They didn’t forget you can ask balgruff about it
This may be true, but he’s still without a doubt my favorite Jarl.
I think the comment section just confirm that everyone love Balgruuf. He is my favorite Jarl.
Jarl Ballin' is the greatest hero of The Elder Scrolls
@Anakin Skywalker can he dance like that and rap about yo mama? I didn't think so
I always thought Balgruuf's kids not going with him to Solitude was a bug
If you talk to Balgruuf in the basement of the Blue Palace he knows his kids are there, and implies that Vignar isn't even aware by saying he hopes they stay hidden because if Vignar finds him he's sure he'll ask a kings ransom for them.
Which is just dumb to me, the kids have to eat, drink, use the chamber pot, they can't hide in the basement forever. There's no way they wouldn't be discovered.
As for why Bethesda left them there, it's probably related to the cut content from the original whispering door quest. Originally all of the kids were supposed to be corrupted and kill Balgruuf. Bethesda probably just forgot to change the script that leaves them there after gutting Mephala's quest.
They really should have just moved her blade and changed the quest.
Balgruuf is the best npc ive met 😭 bro basically gives you a title and a slave early game( who is my main stratergy in defeating frost trolls) and always adresses you as "my friend"
My only issue with this: Balgruuf felt shafted by the imperials, which does lead to the lack of willingness.
Also, fire arrows aren't too effective anyway, lol.
You use fire arrows at night
@@JM-dy4ty why, shouldn't they be the same?
IamusTheFox commanders need to see what they’re hitting at to adjust aim
@@JM-dy4ty without having seen this video in like a year, I don't remeber.
But we are in a world where magic exists for that. Things like night eye, where you can see without needing a lightsource.
IamusTheFox archers need to see what they’re hitting at too, not everyone can be a magician, also that’s not easy to pull off unless you’re a khajiit
You're forgetting the fact that Balgruuf didn't have any guards stationed in Riverwood until Helgen. What if a bandit clan arrived in the city and decided to raze it?
Okay. So this is one, where i going to defend a bit:
1: As much i understood about Balgruuf staying neutral, he did it, to buy time, hoping a peacefull solution could be found.
And he was in the position for it. Not only is Whiterun in such a vital position but Balgruuf was respected on both sides of the conflict. Ulfric actually waited for Balgruufs answer. Infact the whole civil war got only really hot when Balgruuf picked a side.
Downside however was, that he had to keep the Imperials out of the city till he did.
2: The Walls and buildings are a bit of a problem. I beliefe, that Skyrim as a whole has a massiv problem regarding money, something you need to maintain such structures. STone doesn't just have to be mined, it has to shaped to be usefull. That takes time, effort, manpower and money.
I beliefe the only the only two citys in skyrim able to maintane there fortifications like this are Solitude and Windhelm. Maybe Markath, but i don't really think they are really "maintane" the Dwemer structures as they just use them. This also explains why most buildings in Whiterun are made of wood. Cheaper and easier to get.
3: That being said, fire arrows are not an actual thing. At least not in the way most people seem to think of and by far not as effectiv. I would be more worried about catapults, magic user and greek fire.
4: His Children. Okay, while i have no real excuse for the psycho murder child, him leaving the children in Whiterun might not be his choice.
See, there is a little thing called "political hostage" where a member of a noble family is held as a political or diplomatic leverage or as insurance token for the loyalty of that family. While it might just be gameplay, it would make sense to force Balgruuf into exile and keeping his children to ensure he doesn't try anything stupid.
Fun fact: The later ruler of Japan Tokugawa Ieyasu was at the age of five kidnapped by the Oda clan to force his father to ally with the Odas. The thing is, they kidnapped him, when he was send to Imagawa clan, who basicly demanded Tokugawa as a token of loyalty (and so they could "educate" him to be loyal to the Imagawas).
This proved to be a little problem for the Odas when the threat to kill Tokugawa backfired because his fathers answer was somewhat along the lines of:
"Yeah, you can kill my son. But you do know, that this would only proof my loyalty to the Imagawa, right?"
So, Tokugawa was basicly one year with the Odas, who didn't know what to do with him, till they could exchange him to the Imagawas for some other hostages.
Funny enough, Tokugawa Ieyasu later allied with Oda Nobunaga against the Imagawas and kept being loyal till Nobunagas death. Without hostages.
Avarti has started to slack
I suddenly feel MUCH better about making Vignar Grey-Mane the Jarl.
I think the reason Balgruuf couldn't properly build up Whiterun's defenses because of the economic impact the war has had on Skyrim. Time and time again it's mentioned that most holds are struggling economically, even the Solitude and Windhelm, so Balgruuf decided to remain neutral in order to maximize the amount of trade he could receive. Even with this trade, however, the war has still left goods expensive and money tight, with Balgruuf himself admitting that Whiterun's coffers are nearly empty. Because of this, he likely wants to avoid joining the war because that would take an even greater economic hit in order to fund defensive or offensive campaigns, as well as possibly being Whiterun to heel if either side falters in their defense. It's a tenuous situation he's trying to maintain, and I think he knows it ultimately won't work. But he'll do his best anyway, because he's Jarl Ballin', the most honorable Jarl in all of Skyrim.
As for his parenting, he's already trying to manage his hold during a civil war without and is without a spouse, so it's no wonder he hasn't had the time to pay attention to his child's every move or occasional odd phrase. Leaving his kids behind in Dragonsreach is probably just a gameplay error caused by Bethesda not paying attention.
1. Balgruuf has had no reason to repair the walls until the dragon crisis starts, which is right at the beginning of the game, and unless you deliberately avoid it, the dragon crisis can be ended in a matter of days.
2. Dragonsreach is meant to house a dragon but is made of wood. Yet it held another dragon, forget the name starts with an "N" I think, for several years and it never got burned down so clearly whatever wood they're using is either non-flamable or enchanted.
3. Jarl Balgruff stayed neutral because of trade, and how it would divide his city. By forcing Ulfric to force his hand, it wouldn't be as devisive because to his people it would look like he had no choice but to make a stand, as though the imperials do implore him to make a choice, Ulfric is the only one to threaten to attack him outright.
4. Him abandoning his children is clear dev oversight. As there is a deadric quest tied to one of his children, they have to stay in Whiterun. Otherwise you'd be running back and forth between Solitude, and especially for players who disable/don't use fast travel that would make the quest arduous and not worth completing.
One of the things that annoy me about the jarls in the game, is that non of them realize that you are the all powerful dragonborn or that the world is ending, maybe an intentional design decision but the lack of acknowledgement of the fact is ridiculous considering that we don't get to play the i am the dragonborn card except in certain story quests, we get to play the thane card but no the legendary hero card?
Doesn't Ulfric somewhat acknowledge it if you join him after season unending
@@gokublack8342 yes but the dragonborn isn't an inter he saw at an event he is a legendary warrior prophesized kill the world eater, and no one pay more attention to this then ulfric because he is a Nord and also because we can accomplish what he took years of meditation to do by merely slaying one dragon what little acknowledgement he displays is pathetic when you put everything in perspective.
@@Osamathegamer Yeah I agree both sides shouldve practically been begging you to join them I could understand Tullius not really giving a crap but Rikke shouldve been like "Sir hes the Dragonborn we really need him to join us" etc
@@gokublack8342 somebody needs to make Dovahkiin fan club or something.
@@Osamathegamer that needs to be quest. I wanna some nerdy ass skyrim npcs ask the Dragonborn to sign their wooden swords
For a good laugh turn on auto captions and see how many times Google butchers the words "Balgruuf", "Ulfric", and "Jarl"
In defense of Balgruuf, in many medieval civil wars, it was common for a lord to, if possible, take in an enemy lord's children as "guests" (hostages) in order to make sure the enemy lord cannot take part in organizing or staging an invasion for fear of his children being killed.
Balgruuf was an idiot for not siding with the Stormcloaks.
Balgruuf was right for not siding with the Stormcloaks.
@@dutchpatriot17 wrong
@@alt-monarchist Considering the Stormcloaks do more harm to his Hold than they do good, I'd argue otherwise.
Meant be an idiot but he is still my Favorite Jarl 💯
Because he be ballin
You have provoked a clan war
Personally Jarl Idgrod Ravencrone is my fav so I'm alright with this.
Just want to add that there is dialogue from Balgruuf that Whiterun barely has the money to buy food much less pay the guards.
Balgruuf might have been under too much political pressure from the Greymanes and Battle-Borns. Its implied they have perhaps even more say in the city than Balgruuf does. Siding with one or the other early would have marred tradition, something the Nords are obsessed with, and split the city in two, perhaps even causing a coup. Vignar Greymane seemed to be pretty convinced a coup was necessary when he showed up personally to dethrone Balgruuf.
1:20 - I actually have kind of an idea about why that may not be stupid though. There are both empire and stormcloak supporters in his city. Likely also people who are uncertain. By making Ulfric attack first, Ulfric becomes the aggressor in the eyes of the people of Whiterun and so accepting Imperial help likely becomes more tolerable to many.
3:19 - Also, to be fair, the practice of the winner taking your children as "wards" was not uncommon in the middle ages.
I felt like I was the only who still played Skyrim. But boi was I wrong
Now you have officially carried it to far Buddy
Do a video on Idgrod Ravencrone! I think she's a genius but maybe you would see it differently
She is my favorite jarl
@@gabrieleadami5265 she's my second favorite jarl
My favorite distraction buddy at the embassy
I think the kids stayed there because they weren't allowed to leave. Maybe the Stormcloaks wanted to keep them there as leverage against him.
I sided with the Stormcloaks and his behavior led me to belief hes more of an imperial sympathizer.
In Balgruff's defence his children might have been kept at Dragonsreach as wards to deter him from trying to raise an army and retake the city.
ok buddy you just crossed the line
About balgruuf remaining neutral: I think that's quite a wise choice. His providence is sitting right in the middle of the front line, meaning his people would see the most fighting in a prolonged war. Also with both sides being limited to two small fronts instead of a single large one, he keeps the conflict from further escalating, which can be seen in the game when whiterun either joins the Empire or falls to the stormcloaks, resulting in a series of battles either way.
Furthermore, joining either side would have meant disgruntling either the Battleborns or the Graymanes, possibly even resulting in violence within whiterun itself.
He also decided to stick with the empire when push came to shove, showing a good sense for the geopolitical situation in Tamriel.
Next Episode: Why the Chicken from Riverwood is actually the smartest NPC in Skyrim
Gotta disagree with this one...
well you should make some counter arguments then
@@hazzmati Here we go:
1. Neutrality - Going to agree with this one. Siding with the Imperials could give him more tactical advantage by having more time to prepare in case of a Stormcloak attack.
2. Not repairing the walls - Repairs doesn't come cheap. Balgruuf can barely pay the city guards and provide other necessities.
3. Leaving the kids behind - Perhaps the kids are kept as "hostages", ensuring Balgruuf will behave well while in exile. It's common practice back then.
@Ahmad the redguard
2-
That armor came from his personal armory. Whiterun's coffers are nearly empty, he doesn't have the funds.
3-
And then a Stormcloak or bandit raiding party sees them in the wilderness, and they are captured. That sure is a great idea you have there.
@Ahmad the redguard Actually the armor reward for bringing the news is leveled (Got an elven at one time). The farms outside Whiterun aren't that good either. Much of the food comes from the south - Cyrodiil the Empire's breadbasket. Bandits kill the caravans while pirates control the seas. Skyrim's economy isn't feeling good.
Balgruuf should definitely send his kids to Honorhall just for Grelod to torment them and behave properly.
@Hazzmati well, by choosing a side in the war it would cause a rift between his people. And being the trade hub of Skyrim if he did demonise one side Skyrim would lose a lot of market. And I don’t know if you’ve noticed but Skyrim basically relies on trade have u seen the climate? Whiteruns three farms aren’t going to feed the whole hold you know 😂😂. And despite the walls being in disrepair they are sturdy enough to hold against the stormcloaks if you choose imperials. The jarl takes the side of the correct army too, im afraid if you choose stormcloak you are a short sided idiot which balgruuf isn’t. Leaving his kids behind has no correlation to being an idiot, selfish maybe, but not idiotic so I don’t know why it’s mentioned.
Not Jarl Ballin!
But at least he's still got...
*SWAG!*
Sorry, I had to dislike this time, this video seems a bit of a stretch, almost clickbait imho.
1. First of all, the "Whiterun weak defences" point is not imputable to Ballgruuf, rather is Bethesda's very bad design. They seems not know how to do good city defences, try to look at other skyrim city defences, or fort dawnguard, they are pretty inaccurate and awful by a militar point of view (for further information see the analysis of user Shadiversity). Some of them doesn't even have defensive walls.
2. For the ebony blade, in my opinion Ballgruuf made the wisest choice confiding in Farengar, who was the best choice for magical stuff. Consider also the ebony blade were unbreakable, so lock it in dragonsreach was the only choice.
3.I do not understand why keep his children in the palace is so idiotic choice. Obviously in a real palace no one is afforded to enter except a small group of entrusted people, so there would not be risk of being the children kidnapped or murdered. But for gameplay esigences, you are allowed to enter because you're the PC. Anyway, no other seems to enter dragonsreach in game except the Player.
4."Ally early with the Empire", this seems your only valid argument, but is a bit exagerated imho.
So, it seems unfair to state Ballgruuf is an Idiot with such weak arguments. Rather, I'd had expect a video centered on actual skyrim idots, like Laila Law-Giver or Silus Vesuius (the one who summons Merhunes Dagon)
The reason why he leaves his children is because of 1. The melapha quest 2. Bethesda forgot to move his children to the blue palace. Also in the unofficial patch mod his children come with him to the blue palace.
To oblivion with you. Skyrim belongs to the Nords
Long live the empire!!
rip jarl ballin
I would like to make note that the Jarl /was/ aware of Ulfric's possibility of attacking. That's part of why he wants both sides to have a truce when you're catching the dragon - he's worries Whiterun will be taken advantage of during that time. He is well aware of the danger and during the Civil War quest line, there's that whole thing with sending his axe to Ulfric before the Battle for Whiterun - that's what actually kicks off that battle.
Yeah U may be right but...
Are you ballin?
No
Know your place when talking to the lord Ballin
>imperials are more likely to win the war in the long term
Oh you were being serious?
But...But he Ballin.
Woman I am the lord of the rings, holla if you need me.
Haters gonna hate
Haters gonna hate
You’re mommas gonna hate
Jarl Balgruuf: "That boy ain't right."
Jarl Ballsgruff
Balgruuf never was neutral. He was always an ally of the Imperials. I don't know what exactly he says in english dub but in the german version he makes his standpoint clear. When you attack whiterun you have impdrial soldiers there fighting against you, don't you?
What kind of proof would someone need more. He did side with one of the sides. And he did prepare for war. He did take Ulfric seriously while proventus thought that ulfric woudn't really attack. He did reply to ulftic with a NO and in the same moment asked for help from Thulius.
He even says that the nords themselves are imperials, implying that they are already rooted to deep into this land, that the nords are now imperials themselves.
I think his standpoint was quite clear tbh
Avarti thinks the Jarl can't keep things under control
To be fair, Balgruuf may not have been given the option of taking his children if he wanted to, because, like you said, he was exiled.
General Tullius is an idiot...
now hold up now
There's a problem with one of your points, that being the idea to replace the wooden frames of houses with stone ones. That's ridiculous considering both time and resources, in-game it is specifically mentioned that the treasury is stretched thin as it is, so Balgruuf would have to pay for both masons and the stone required for it, which could also combat the point you made on the walls as well. Neither comes cheap, not to mention the most important aspect being time.
How dare you
Me: *Sees the title and cries on the inside*
If the imperials had been in the city sooner, it might have convinced the stormcloaks-siding citizens to leave the city to join ulfric, therefore precipitating the attack even sooner as well
Please please please make Mephala is a Genuis video. A video on how Mephala is actually one of the best and smartest daedric princes becaese of her centuries of succession regarding the Dark Brotherhood. I know her being the Night Mother is a "theory" (even a theory video is still fun) but i firmly believe Mephala is the one tricking everyone about Sithis and The Night Mother. The Void is a real place as we know in TES lore but I think Mephala created the idea of an afterlife regarding The Void, even in death Dark Brotherhood members are clueless we know that for sure because of even Lucien Lachance still refrencing The Void as where he resides in the afterlife. Even in ESO, an old shrine of Sithis is made to resemble the spider arms of Mephala, which just adds to the "theory".
Mephala made up Sithis and The Night Mother to watch chaos unfold, because thats the one thing she (as do all daedric princes) love. They love watching the chaos they created. Mephala is using the traits of her sphere to succeed in tricking more devotees and she has been succeeding for centuries. Youre my favorite TES Lore channel and you seem like on the of the smartest ones with a big following so I would love to see more people discussing this outside of threads