How Hydraulic Launch Rides Work
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ม.ค. 2024
- This video is a long one!
Hydraulic systems are big, powerful, and expensive to operate.
I'll be taking a lot at how these ride continue to thrill riders every day.
So let's drop the launch dog and get right into it!
No spikes needed.
Videos used from the following
@FrontSeatPOVs for Xcelerator
@kawadawg140 for behind the scenes dragster
@Eltororyan for top thrilla off ride
@nicosamazingadventures for on ride kingda ka - บันเทิง
Your editing is getting better and better every video. Congrats
Thanks. I’m only using imovie but I’m also not doing this as a full time job. Hard to edit after a full day of work. Kids homework, working out dinner ect.
Wanna say this was a long watch but I stayed the whole way through. Can't tell you how much I remember but still a very interesting and EXTREMELY informative video on Hydraulic launches definitely gonna have to watch again.
Thank you. It was long for me as well haha!
Can’t explain how much I love this channel, keeps me motivated at college when I remember rides are the end goal
Just been working on our one today! Whenever I walk into that launch room, I very quickly remember why they don't produce them anymore! Incredible feat of engineering for a coaster, but super complex.
I can’t even touch the tip of that iceberg on the complexity. This video was so hard to make to try and explain but I needed to dive into level 3 to tie it together but explain it like level 1. It was Rough for me.
@@ryantheridemechanicas a Diesel Mechanic I understand your frustration. It's hard when you have to dumb down how all the systems communicate and operate to someone who doesn't know the difference between an open ended and boxed end wrench lol
@@IAmAnonymyz At least many diesel owners kind of know what youre talking about. Try explaining it to a 16 year old girl, or an 85 year old woman, or some 35 year old man bun wearing, uses more product in his (?) beard than my wife does in her hair, soyboy why I need to tear into their engine to see why the timing codes are stored. Hell.... try telling them why NOT going 10,000 miles between oil changes, and using GOOD oil matters a lot.
@@Spike-sk7ql you can go 10k miles on oil changes as long as you use Group 4/5 Oils but that's another discussion for another time lol. And while I don't have to explain things to 16year olds I do have to explain things to 85 the old guys who are clueless as well as the new hires from that one place we refer to as Un-Trained Idiot School lol.
@@IAmAnonymyz yes you can go even more than 10k between oil changes, even on a gasser. Amsoil would be required. How many people are gonna spring for not only the oil, but the filter that is required for such time? Amsoil had a system out back in the day where you installed a secondary filter, so you have 2 oil filters, and both were special media so they didn't disintegrate. They told you you could go 25k between oil changes on your gasser. The crazy thing is, it actually worked. I bought a 1990 Eagle Talon TSi off of my Amsoil dealer back in 2003. He bought it new, installed that system, and went 25k between oil changes. Car had 195k miles on it. I was gonna beat on it, so I pulled the engine apart, let me tell you, you could have eaten off of the inside of the valve cover. I was skeptical of that system, and was expecting to find some sludge inside. There was none. I think he sold me the car so he could sell me the 3 systems I bought from him after that.😂 I'm sorry, this went WAAAY into the weeds. I hope you don't feel like you read all this and it was stupid. It probably was. If so, I'm sorry.
Watching now…..but being primarily a fluid power repairman, I have to say first off is that industrial hydraulics always shred everything that’s bolted to them way before they shred themselves. But when hydro motors are run at 11 they tear up and contaminate the heck out of the system! At CP’s winter chill out 10 years ago I was asking questions about system clean up after motor failures and the mechanic that was talking kinda got hushed when he said it has been an ongoing problem. Hydraulics the most power dense systems ever made also the most expensive when they fail!!!!
Thanks for making quality coaster content for an internet full of non-technical videos
Well I hope I got some stuff right for you. I’m good with Hydro but not great. And most of this video will be watered down for someone like you.
@@ArtBarn591 it’s tricky! Thank you
It’s not easy bringing a random crowd of people up to speed with a difficult concept, and not offend those in the know, I think you do a fine job of it, obv we all keep coming back to watch!
@@ArtBarn591 thank you!
The only launch that can top these are air launches, which are even more rare. Absolutely amazing tech. Glad I got to have a few rides on the original dragster.
Yea I got on max force, but I’m hoping SixF doesn’t mess with kingda ka and I can get on that one one day.
I always think of TTD! My all time fave roller coaster (night ride, forward load, 3rd row, load side aka inside seat aka top hat non-catwalk side.
I have one rollback stalled 3 sec at the very top. Feels like your back's going thru the seat. You feel gravity a lot more than going forward although there's no 270 twist to shift the momentum. Very smooth though. The second time there no wound effects just the zip of the cable. A mom who got up the nerve to ride the last ride of the 2006 season with me was stunned. I said tell Dad and the kids (who were watching) people all over the world will want a rollback and you got one on your first and last try. I know riders who had 35.
TT2 will have a mini rollback built-in we'll see how that feels. Wicked Twister felt nothing like a true TTD rollback for example. It felt like the high seatback was going to break apart on TTD.
My maintenance supervisor friend pushed TTD over 3 times when it's been stuck. Someone caught one on video.
Thank for the in depth explanation of what used to be.
Edit: It's amazing TTD lasted as long as it did. It makes me think TT2 would have been in the works with the RMC re-purposing Mean streak into Steel Vengeance successfully ie. they don't have to tear down TTD's tower. Another educated reasoning is CP spent a lot of money on their 150th anniversary entertainment which was pushed out one season because of the pandemic. It was called Spectacular the following season. They planned to do the night show and expensive parade floats for two seasons. This season Live E! had budgetary constraints and literally be creative, I think because Boardwalk with Wild Mouse, moving rides and the Grand Pavilion replacing Wicked Twister got the big budget. Adding restaurants here & there the past few seasons. It makes sense to me unofficially that TTD being repurposed into a more efficient TT2 was planned, regardless of people and enthusiasts telling you they hadn't heard of that so it couldn't possibly be true ie. someone would have said something. My logic is more sound imho That's another video for you. Speculation on new rides, and in CP's case entire areas.
btw, TH-cam's video description count is 5,000. My recent Live E! backstage video was exactly 5,000! I've been putting that in my descriptions, how many characters I typed lol Not too many are wasted on frivolous info. It has to be interesting even if I'm an audience of one. This comment is only 2,012!
I like your style. I love the non-catwalk side too, especially the front. I was lucky enough to ride TTD eight times. Also, I was in the Fast Lane+ line on Sunday August 15th 2021 and witnessed flying debris. I didn't see the flag plate but I saw what I believe to be a sheared bolt head moving at high velocity ricochet off the railing I was leaning on. It was freaky. I'll never forget the sounds of agony that woman made! The whole situation was horrific. Anyway, can't wait to get on TT2 it's gonna be epic. Nothing stops an enthusiast
@@samich57 That's interesting info. The first I've heard from someone whoo was very close. It would have been like a bullet hitting you. It would have probably been one of the two counter sunk bolts that sheared off from the left side flag plate. An irony is the left side proxy sensors they trip are primarily in the unload. A vast number are on the right side.
I read the 300+ page Ohio Dept of Agriculture Report pdf. It included photos from a distance of the blood stains on the pavement. A lot of the report was a 'maintenance dump' around that time of all the maintenance record time sheets not just TTD but even fixing A/C in Hotel Breakers. (I found out my friend who I mentioned pushed TTD over in the past doesn't often take lunch). It should be noted the ride ops handled the situation perfectly based on their reports.
I happened to walk behind the paramedic's truck with its sirens on when it was entering the maintenance gate by the motor house driving up to TTD's entrance. Small kids too young to ride were asking what happened. People were lined up along the fence from the entrance like they do when it breaks down. At that point a manager was talking to riders on the trains that were being wheeled back into the station. I didn't take any video or hang around.
The weather was perfect that day and she was under the sun shades which was one thing that worked in her favor. Ironically the flag plate most likely flew thru the small gap between the sun shades then ricocheted off the metal sun shade supports. Slightly to either side it would have flown past.
You can hear her moaning/crying 'Help Me' in the Cedar Police body cam. Amazing she was conscious. It also shows a ride op coming from the area it sounds you were at to give part of a bolt to a maintenance employee who I've seen around.
The report didn't redact her name or address. Her husband's a COO of a company so they live in a mansion. Without going back to look up specific info, she was a very smart lady getting her Masters degree in a teaching field. Terrible that a person like that got hit. Not that it's good anyone got hit. There's videos on TH-cam that the mistakenly ie. didn't do their research at all! that show a teacher in IL that looks similar but's not her.
Earlier in the day I saw someone's hat fly off on the top hat down to Millennium (Force) Island.
I can't remember how many times I rode TTD. I have a season pass since 2006. My friends who rode it from the day it opened had over 3,500 rides with 35 rollbacks (rounded off). I most often rode it at night when the crowds were small and the regulars were riding. I literally ran onto the train once in the same seat I had just gotten off of. A ride op waving me to hurry up the ramp.
One guy I rode with often liked the outside seat for the sideways pull in the 270 deg twist. So that was convenient for us. My last ride was during the day I can't recall when but it would have been close to that date. My first one was during the day. It's interesting the crowd seemed a bit different compared to the night riders.
Riding at night I also very often got the seat I wanted. Good memories really.
@@amusement420 I agree. I've read the report too. The hand written maintenance logs and metallurgy reports explain a lot
Ryan The Ride Mechanic friday evenings are always a winner for me.
Intamins patent notes they can actually engage the motors individually. I think the hydraulic motors engage on Kingda Ka in 4 separate groupings or they collectively engage in four non linear bursts. Four just happens to also be the number of banks of accumulators. I’ll have to find a ride force graph for it.
Cool!
Montezoomas revenge at Knotts used a huge flywheel and a mechanical clutch. Very simple.
New Ryan the ride mechanic banger uploaded let’s go🗣🗣🔥🔥‼️‼️
Liking during the advertisement because no way I won’t like this video
An empty train actually requires more speed to clear the tower than a full train, because it has less momentum. For this reason, none of the hydraulic launch coasters actually launch at their advertised speed. However, a full train requires more power to launch than an empty one. The systems work best when trains are all about the same weight. Kingda Ka, for instance, usually requires a minimum of 14 riders on the train. This can be annoying on some weekdays when the park is very empty, as it can actually take a while for a group of 14 to form.
All the rides have the same launch sequence. The launch dog and drive tires drop simultaneously, allowing the train to roll backwards. Once the launch dog engages the catch car, the brake fins lower, and the launch starts 5 seconds after the brake fins lower.
Close, it's actually 6000ms from the couple up and brakes down to the launch command. This comes from a 3500ms delay to verify linear train / catch car position and a 2500ms hold delay.
Source: I have the code in front of me right now.
Thanks Ryan, great video, really appreciated.
Awesome video! Thanks so much!
Your welcome!
Been hoping to learn this for a very long time. Love the talks, and my dream job is exactly what you do.
Well did, ha! Just keep moving toward it. You can get there one day
Excellent work Ryan. I've been waiting for a video like this for many years. I had a basic understanding of the hydraulics. Your illustrations and technical explanation satisfied my curiosity. The mock up spool and cabling is what I liked the most. I've tried to explain it to others with only words and could never articulate it in a way they could understand. Thanks
Words are tough. Photos, unless it’s your ride, are harder. So I make things from time to time to help out. Thanks for the kind comments!
Great explanation Ryan! I never could figure how Dragster (and others) worked. Now I understand. Thnx.
Your wwlcome
Awesome video! It was a long watch but I enjoyd it, I was still wanting more haha. These rides always intrigued me, but I understand why they are being converted. Hope to be able to jump on one of the big ones though (only ridden Desert Race, Rita, Stealth and Kanonen/Matugani).
Thanks! I highly recommend (I know it’s not a hydro) max force. At six flags great America if you ever make it out that way. Such an intense launch. Kingda ka is on my list to get on.
Oh thank you SO MUCH! I have been wanting an in depth overview of how these worked for so long. I mean, I'm not an idiot, and can have my theories, but I want to know exactly how the stuff I like works. So far, all I have been able to find is just a basic overview. I wanna get into how the hydraulic motors work. I will say that NOTHING will beat that launch. My most ridden is obviously the OG Dragster, as CP is my home park.
Such amazing pieces of equipment!
What I find really cool about hydraulic coasters is that apparently the idea came from the steam powered fighter jet launchers on aircraft carriers.
I’ve been on a few hydraulic coasters. Kingda Ka, Stealth & Rita. Kingda Ka was an experience but even though Stealth is a lot smaller, it’s the most forceful launch I’ve felt on a coaster. Kingda Ka just kept accelerating for ages. On Stealth before you know it, you’re blasting up to the top hat.
Rita is the weirdest as it doesn’t have a top hat.
So cool. Thank you so much!! At minute 22 I was like OHHHH I get it!!! So neat.
Your welcome. Glad you enjoyed it.
Very good video!
Thank you.
I've been on two hydraulic launch coasters, Dragster and (as of a few days ago, finally) Xcelerator. I got Xcelerator as my 150th coaster!
Nice!
Oh this is one I'm DEFINITELY watching.... xcelerators acceleration left my soul in station. I've never been weightless on a launch lol.... And to further elaborate on the Xcelerator power crank. It was rumored to have hit 114mph iirc and I would have been signing a waiver to experience THAT
The testing Sandor did is nuts. You blink and the train is gone. Still one of the fastest acceleration rides in the world.
@@ryantheridemechanic there's actually a video somewhere of that said test. Midway Mayhem posted it. 0-117mph in 1.8 Seconds is the reported max... 0-82mph in sub 3 seconds was insane.....I could only imagine what 0-117 mph sub 2 seconds is like
@@IAmAnonymyz yea I heard they used a train that was running all season so it can be torn down and inspected after that testing.
@@ryantheridemechanic I got lucky in December to be able to ride it in-between the huge rainstorms that hammered Knott's. Definitely realized the hype was real. I really wanna experience an S&S Compressed Air Launch. I hear those are even more forceful than hydraulic.Speaking of Knott's ... I honestly hope they fix Montezumas Revenge. Nothing beats the nostalgia of a Schwartzkopf Shuttle Loop. Only one I got to ride was Tidal Wave/Greased Lighting at Paramount's CGA before they removed it
@@IAmAnonymyz I grew up in tidle wave 😃 I went on max force this year and HO-LEE-CRAP that was intense!!!!
I'm pretty sure im gonna have to watch this over the course of a few days, but can't wait to see it all! These launch system have always facinated me! Just a suggestion, but maybe break up these long format videos into multiple shorter parts? Saves us viewers from having to search through the watch history to find out where we left off. 🙂
So I’m a firm believer that most people won’t try and finish videos like that and just loose interest. I poled viewers about it as well and most people felt the same way. Like you doing, pole just use the watch history to restart the video where it left off.
@@ryantheridemechanic guess I'm not one of those "most people" that will lose interest. I love your content and will do whatever is necessary to watch it all! 🙂
@@BamaRailfan thank you! I appreciate you
@@BamaRailfanI agree. I'm just going to need to watch it a few times to get an understanding that I can remember. It's a very complex and awesome system.
@@ryantheridemechanicyup took a few days!! But great content as always! 😊
IT HYDROPLANES!!!? Whaaaat!!!
Haha! I was shocked when I heard that as. Well
Really enjoyed this one Ryan.
Couple questions:
1. What controls the dog on the train? You mentioned if the dog was still in the down position on roll back it could cause damage. How does that get engaged/disengaged?
2. How often would hydraulic fluid in the system need to be replaced?
Keep the content coming 👍
The dog is latched up in the train. Electric coil release the latch and the dog drops. The dog just sits in the pocket of that catch car. That act of being forced apart from the catch car forced the dog back into the latch.
Hydro fluid is normally replaced annually unless contaminated.
Xcel is my favorite !!!
Such an awesome ride!!
When I worked at Knott's, in the morning, if there was a light rain or sprinkle, the red train would almost always short shot, so whomever was working on it-the would call us on the radio to go ride it.🤣
@@Jenlovescoasters test ride I wouldn’t mind!
@@ryantheridemechanic yeah, short shots are super fun!
I know maintenance guys are freaking sick and tired of dealing with Xcelerator and Kingda Ka
Yea, but if they pull people in the gate and hold records. Parks don’t want to let go.
Haven't worked on one yet, but I know I will be soon enough.
Awesome! Good luck!
I was on Kingda Ka last year and it was operating as normal, but on one of our rides we only made it about halfway up the tower. I have always been wondering what might have caused the large decrease in speed, so do you know what might have gone wrong?
Not really, the systems are extremely sensitive. Shutdown could have come from over pressure, over speed, under pressure, under speed and don’t forget accidental estops or ride stops. Could have been a sensor on a brake fin not reading down mid launch. Thousands of possibilities.
Hey, as far as a safety for possible rollback with the launch dog down, simplicity could be the best solution there. What if the launch car, after it slows down, is on its own tracks obviously. What if the launch dog track is where the train could be 5-10' above the launch car, and the launch car can not start returning until the train has cleared the top hat? That way no matter what, the train is safe, the cables are safe, and the drum, and hydraulics are safe. And could the dog being down possibly take out the brake fins?
It’s like s&s did where they pull there’s under the track. Vekoma to. Not sure why they kept it there. But it does keep the cables shorter, and that’s a good thing. The dog is in the dead center of the train and the fins for brakes are about a foot to either side of it.
the american ones seem to have constant downtimes and long ones unlike the ones in europe like stealth and rita where they have had minimal to no downtime and with stealth holding the record of fastest acceleration it is surprising that it hasn't had mroe downtime really questions if maintenance has something to do with it
@@antonytsai6611 could also have something to do with launch length. But also the US models were some of the first ones correct? Maybe later revisions have fixed a lot of problems.
@@ryantheridemechanic rita was 2005 and stealth was 2006 desert race was 2009? launch length will probably have something to do with it due to time under tension for the cables and the amount of retractable brake fins sad to see this model discontinued as that launch is pretty insane especially on stealth
@@antonytsai6611 just wait until Intamin figures out how to hard hydraulic fluid to a stator! Then it’s game on!! Haha!!!
Is that an S&S seat?
If your referring to the orange chair? No it’s actually Intamin.
@@ryantheridemechanic very nice! I’d love a chair from a B&M hyper one day.
How much can a hydraulic launch system cost like the one similar to Dragster & Kingda Ka?
I honestly can figure out a price. Has to be at least $2M I guessing. About 90% of the hydro drive system is custom made so you can’t even price out things they use.
Your such a nerd.... Hehe love it.😅
Does a swatch plate act like a clutch.
So a swash plate is a way to transmit fixed motion into a rotational force. So… think of a plate with pistons attached rotating. when the plate is vertical, none of the pistons move in or out of their bore. When you tilt the plate the pistons now travel up at the top of the plate. It’s hard to think about. Rotor blades on a helicopter get their position through a swash plate controlled by the pilot. Look up swash plate operation and I’m sure there are some great videos on them.
Try this one. th-cam.com/video/mgn1UDazkRo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=_21-Q-E5Sn_cydVo
Very helpful Mr Ride Mechanic. I've got it at my level if not yours. Keep up the good work.
@@simoncurrie5520 thank you!
If you pause at 5:32, you can see the track is lined with proximity sensors. What is the point of so many proximity sensors in such a short amount of space?
I can’t speak for the exact reason but I would venture to guess because both trains can be advanced at once they are basically creating micro block segments so the trains can me monitored and not collide at the same time. This process is more hazardous on ride that use inflated kick or booster tires to advance.
16:00 serious request, can you bring back the taco bell chime or another fun sound effect when you show the subscribe pennant thingy, please?
I’ll see if I can remember to do some haha!
@@ryantheridemechanic wicked awesome! Thanks for considering!
Very informative and I think I can talk intelligently about hydraulic launch coasters.
Now I'm no ride engineer, but in your hypothetical scenario of the dog catching the launch car on rollback, that would probably definitely wreck your shit from accelerating the launch system like 100g+ from standstill. Motors freewheeling not gonna be safeguarding much of anything
It would be quite an impact on the riders but not extreme. Just uncomfortable. The train would need a full tear down and inspection. Cables would need to be replaced. Catch car needs inspection. But you wouldn’t break cables (keeps rider safe) and you wouldn’t destroy the drum and gearbox, that would take the whole ride out for about 1.5-2 years if the drum and gearing was broken. So definitely not ok but you could use other trains and take a week to inspect. Be up and running about a week later.
@@ryantheridemechanicInteresting bit of info, intamin actually has a system in place for this exact scenario. The front of that catch car is ramped up (seen at 42:01) same as where it couples, to force the dog back into place in the clutch pack and clear the catch car. It's extremely rare for that to happen though. I've been working on one for a long time and still never seen it happen.
@@shawnspencer8766 interesting to know. I also figured with as small as the pocket is on that catch car the dog if down after that front ramp, would probably just fly over that hole. Everything happens so fast.
@@shawnspencer8766 it’s those fun pieces of information that people know just like yours. I love walking around with a manufacture, looking at their rides and they would point something out and they would say do you understand why this is curved and I would say no and then they would explain it, and it was always fascinating to hear the actual thought behind the engineering of the equipment because they plan for things that most people never fathom happening.
@@ryantheridemechanic very true. Funny enough I actually got piece of info from Sandor last time he was on site here. We were shooting the shit and he started talking about the catch car.
I learn something new everyday on these machines lol
Got thru it!! Ha!
Thanks for clearing up the water mystery for me, why cables and water….. made no sense, I speculated it was a design patch to cool something that ended up running too hot. I would have never guessed it was for the catch car to hydroplane on but makes total sense.
When I was asking about top trill (RIP) As I understand it once the catch cars speed is bled off with the mag brakes and pumping losses a few motors (I think four per side) swash into reverse to power the system back home.
I’d speculate that there is no friction brake on that drum at all. With a just few motors low speed braking holding and positioning should be an easy ask of a system like that.
The instantaneous horsepower of the winch….. the mind boggles, I’d bet that broke some fluid power industry records for instantaneous delivered Horsepower. Mining shovels don’t move that kind of flow that top thrill uses while hauling the train.
PS: I can tell you’re an electrical guy! Hydraulics are super similar in theory when doing that whole pressure is like voltage, and current like flow…….. so you always need voltage as the potential for an electric system. In hydraulics that’s kinda on its head; flow comes first, pressure is only created by resistance to flow. But it’s harder to explain it that way . In no way is this meant to be a jab at an excellent video from limited information!
Yep you got it all. Long video haha! Yea my suspicion is that the put some motors in neutral and some with a choke to assist with stopping the drum. Catastrophic in my mind is mid launch and loose power sot hat what I was thinking when going through things. And yea can’t have pressure without resistance. But like you said , hard to relay that.
Thanks for getting through it!!
The only correction i have as an operator is that the brake fins don’t drop until the train has reached the position where it’s engaged with the catch car, other than that, this was basically perfect from my knowledge as an operator
It’s actually the opposite with the trains. The ride launches based on speed, not total power. Sudden unloading means it’s not heavy enough and can’t make it over with the speed it’s launched at. Slowly loading it means the train slows down and doesn’t go screaming over the top hat. You cannot under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES use the launch boost function with any load in the train, this would actually hurt people pretty severely.
(Edit) To clarify this a little more, no matter how heavy the train is (within normal train weight specs) if the system says “I’m launching at 119.7 mph” it’s gonna launch that train to 119.7 mph. Lighter trains carry less momentum than heavier ones, and actually need to be launches *faster* than fully loaded trains. We had specs for the window of “speed reduction” (available on our launch screen and show in meters/second” for each number of loaded rows. From empties, we’d start at 3 rows loaded, cycle until the speed reduction from maximum speed was high enough, add a row, and repeat until every row was loaded.
Thank you.