What would YOU do with J♥ J♣ on the turn? Your Stack (HJ): $925 Their Stacks (BB, UTG): $>1,000 Pot: $180 Board: 7♠ 7♦ 4♦ 9♣ BB & UTG Check A) Check B) Bet $60 (small) C) Bet $120 (medium) D) Bet $180 (large)
Check turn because it’s 3 way pot and that board texture favors their range more than Jaman’s range. Between the 2 opponents they can have a 7, 4-4, 9-9, diamonds where Jaman doesn’t have those very often. So to me they can check raise a lot of holdings (diamond draws, a 7, full houses, and air) because we can have broadway type cards, suited aces, and over pairs which are gonna have a tough time continuing in a 3 way pot. Looks super strong to check raise in a 3 way pot at the 2-5 level. So I would check turn and call most reasonable river bets. A little different hand/situation if I have A-9 in position and flop comes 9-7-3. I bet flop 1/2 pot turn comes 4. Check check turn for the reason of I want my opponent to bet into me on the river with all of their holdings even if an over card comes. (Air, missed draws, 2nd/3rd pairs, ets. Call any reasonable bet when they do that. Most people can’t help themselves with their air and also bet 2nd/3rd pairs. If they check again bet 1/3 pot or check depending on your live read of person is. Made a decent amount of money playing games at the 2-5 level this way. Hard to get 3 streets of value with A-9 on that board but it’s the best way I have found at that level. Sorry a little off topic.
One thing that not mentioned here and very important, on TURN, its always a check back anyway, against two people and IP and with these suits i am checking back turn PURE, as the EV in catching river bluffs is greater than the 110 u might get from very few combos and you are unblocking all the Jx of diamonds which they have many combos, and i was writing this before see river but when they have nut flush draws etc the jack diamonds river coolers the sheeet out of them, just pure checking back with JJ no diamond the EV for the reasons i stated is much greater than when u bet and get check raise bluffed too!
I'm checking turn because it keeps my range to include some draws I mightve fired aggressively on the flop with, giving me more bluffs on the river, and keeping all my opponents losing combos in. I think a check on this turn is the easiest action to keep balanced, because even though it would be nice to get value from diamonds and some straight draws, it's less likely for two opponents to have diamonds, which means we have to consider being up against stronger pocket pairs or better a decent chunk of the time. we want to keep the pot smaller since we have so little draws that improve our hand, essentially only a jack or a 7, and our opponents draws give them so much showdown value, and a check has the bonus of the pot control aspect.
Phil Gordon had a simply theory, small hand/small pot, big hand/big pot. In position I would have checked the turn...and I agree with folding on the turn after getting check-raaised.
You're absolutely right about those types of tells. I had that very thing happen in my last session. I had JJ on the button against an early limper and the BB (of course I raised preflop). The flop is Q 8 5 rainbow and it checks to me. I could be behind a Q, but I could be ahead and get value from an 8, a 5, and hands like 67, 10 9 and random floats. I bet and the BB calls. When the Q hit the turn I saw the BB shift up in his seat before checking. I checked behind. I binked a J on the river and sure enough the BB bets. When I raised he was absolutely bewildered and snap called. If I hadn't noticed I may have bet the turn and had to fold to the check-raise.
Check back certainly gives us the easiest river decision and we probably aren't getting called by many worse pocket pairs anymore. Yeah we would like to charge the draws but this has the potential to get ugly. Edit: Jacks apparently give off Wilhelm screams when thrown
4:20 I think we should bet small. There are a lot of draws out there and suited hands w/ the 9d will call us. Idk these opponents, but there are players who will call a turn bet w 88 or limped w 1010. And we can always just fold to a large check raise
Learned something here. I would have def. bet around 120 on the turn. Now I'll try your advice of keeping weak made hands in with a smaller bet. Will be interesting to see how that works in my games, which are micros. Up to now I've assumed that a 4 would fold to any bet.
I played at the Encore just last week (Great poker room by the way) and I had this same scenario. With two callers after a C-bet paired board on the flop, checking the turn is the only play. In my case the "J" didn't come on the river, but I saved myself some money because my opponent flopped a set.
Check back for pot control. Facing 2 callers, the likelihood to be beat goes up, also you don't have many strong hands in range which could be exploited by a thinking opponent. Then call brick rivers and fold on bad rivers.
i think the turn is a pretty clear bet-fold spot, with plans to check back almost all rivers. A lot of live players will get sticky with a 4 because, as Jaman said, the 9 is a pretty big brick. It's player dependent, but based on the flop action I think that villains' ranges are going to be very draw-heavy so we want to charge a hefty price. Obviously that wasn't the case this time, but overall I think bet-folding is pretty profitable here. There are a lot of bad rivers so it would suck to check behind on the turn and be forced to call a $150+ bet from one of the villains.
So betting turn is good for 110$ + (maybe even more based on your comment ) but then checking and having to call 150$ is bad? I mean it’s not a fun position but if you’re okay betting 100-150+ on Turn .... then checking and having to call 150$ on river is almost the same thing financially. It’s gonna def depend on what the river is ... but I think checking gets you more EV in long run.
@@MINNESOTA_PTSD if he's bluffing the turn it's with high equity draws that we're not that far ahead of (even those would want to check behind sometimes), and we don't beat any value hands that would bet the turn when checked to. And yes, I would rather lose $110 than $150.
I would check in this scenario to control the size of the pot multi way and perhaps induce a bluff from one of the opponents. I’d tread very lightly though
When poker set you up to not win, it set you up to not win. When poker set you up to lose, it set you up to lose. When poker set you up to win, it set you up to win. haha.
That seems like a classic way ahead/way behind situation on the turn, once you get called twice, unless the players are terrible, which calls for passive play. If you check it back, and it goes bet fold to you , you might be able to snap off a bluff. If you bet here, what’s your plan on the river? Is this hand good enough to win three bets?
I saw this hand in one of his vlogs, so the outcome was known. But, I can understand his turn bet, personally I'd have gone for a smaller bet to try and gain insight into possible holdings. Who knows, a smaller turn bet might have gotten both of them to slow play their boats, and wait for the river to play their strong holdings. In hindsight, would have checked the turn to hit the malicious river card, but that's not what we always do. I can see either play on the turn, just wouldn't go as large as Jaman did, to get the sam information, but based upon both the check call, and then the check raise, folding any over pair was the right move. We all have done it, and then seen the river would've given us the nuts, but if you play that way, you will always lose more then you'll be winning, and then please 🙏 play at my table.
I'm checking back turn against two players here looking to call down on safe rivers depending on how the river action goes. I would bet against one player on that type of board. The only hands you beat that call a turn bet are combo draws, a 4 is likely folding and no one should have a 9.
The information gained after the flop bet gets called by both players out of position especially from BB (774 smashes BB range) and UTG (can have all the nut flush draws and over pairs) for me would have put me in check back mode on the turn after they check through to me again and then I'd get paid off on the river when the Jack peels. IMO alarm bells should have been going off in his head when they both flat call the preflop 5x raise then flat call the roughly 2/3s pot flop bet then like you said when you get check raised huge on the turn you have to fold your 2 pair with the overpair that had showdown value and could have got to showdown for free.
I think I like to Check the turn. Not worried about much over cards except a few Broadway and ace combos of diamonds.pot control. Your overall equity vs 3 way ranges has gotta be low here, like 30%? Why bloat the pot as well as risk getting bluffed off. And you hit that jack 4.5% of time on river! Oh and now edit I just saw that the jack came haha my point exactly
I would have checked the turn, simply because there's more hands that have you beat that would call your bet, and a lot of hands won't just call you, they'll raise you. I would have tried to get to showdown as cheap as possible
I don't mind the shove by the BB, he's giving UTG a reasonable price, I mean what does the BB do on the river oop? BB should check to the UTG player and he checks back so much, most 7x that the UTG has are going to be checked back after BB calls his raise on the turn if he's a good player.
I think I check it back. I have a hand that has show down value, and if someone does have a big hand I am probably burning money. I think this makes my hand a bit face up, but I feel like getting tricky would prob just cost me money.
I would raise on the turn with a half pot bet. Hoping to push one of them out without a straight or flush possibility on the board. Pocket kings pocket Queens pocket aces a three of a kind a four of a kind and three different types of Full House's. Him being the original raiser it's very unlikely that they would have anything else better. But I guess we will see.
Wow that is painful. I like his line though except for turn sizing is a little big as JL says. It's easy to type in the youtube comments to check back JJ on that turn. But in game, you already know that if you do that, the river will definitely be the king of diamonds or the 6 of diamonds or the ace of spades or something like that
Hard to not sound results oriented after seeing the river. But the 9 helps the BB and UTG limp range a lot more than ours, on a board that already favors them. My thought on the turn is to not re-open the action into those strong ranges and call almost any river bet since the pot was only going to be 180. I was even joking to myself, "imagine you re-open, have to fold, and the river is a jack" :'( damn lol nice video
two people calling either already have you beat, or have draws that have you beat. if it's just one opponent, maybe you can get them to fold their draw. but out of two, both aren't going to fold usually so you HAVE TO check this turn and just see the river. if it's beneficial for their draws, you can fold. if it's the jack, you can get it all in. there's no reason to bet the turn here that I can see. just opens you up to being exploited.
Check, against two players on this paired board, you don't have much fold equity, especially folding out both hands, and you can be pretty certain you do not have the best hand now, remember they also should be worried what you have. My guess one person has the 7 ,and the other has an over pair.
When both runners just call the flop bet, I feel like one of them has the nuts and is hoping to let someones flush get there. At 2/5 only the best flush draws call on a paired board, and that is more my range not really theirs. When the second one calls my flop bet, I give them 7x, 88, 99, TT. When the turn is a 9 and they both check again it feels even more like they want to let a straight or flush get there. I totally check this turn behind with JJ and fold on river if I don't improve.
Make an over bet on that flop with JJ, anyone calls check it down and if your opponent bets just fold, lose less on long term, flush draw would not call 70 percent of the time if that's the case unless they're super loose
Check (of course) - as noted with 2 callers it seems (with no other information) that one of the 2 hands is strong or very draw happy. So why not get a free card and make a decision based on that
The two opponets both checked, why not just check back in this situation? He was most likely behind, if the river shows a Jack he can trap them, if not easy fold right?
I'd be on the nitty end of things for sure checking back. Getting called twice does not make me feel happy about my overpair one bit. I'd have called a bet on a brick river and folded to a raise, most likely. Obviously not on the river that he got there, though ;)
That's crazy man but even if he checks behind the turn he may end up paying to some degree on the river as well and losing some portion of the time to rivered straights, 7's, FH's, flushes and maybe even QQ+ so I think as played it's fine he is good enough to get away from it when they raise so betting is fine there!
Ok. Seems to me you don’t want to let draws realize their equity, but you don’t want to build a huge pot when you might be way behind. So I think you need a little protection and checking behind won’t do that. Someone with a 7 will need to raise, but draws won’t want to raise. Straight and flush draws have about 20% equity, 1/3 pot is not giving them a super price, I think I would bet about 70. Small bet
Nice answer. Equity realization is the key on this spot. But if you bet small a good player will raise your bet with his draws. I like the $110 bet he made.
Had a similar hand with KK on MP and next to act and bb called flop is J99 I bet like 50%pot next to act calls then bb shoves for a little bit over and I was wondering if I should raise but couldn’t anyway since it was too small so both call turn is a king I bet again he calls river is a T and I Hollywood a little and go all in and this guy tank folded T9 for river boat and bb shows JJ. So flopped boat then turn boat and river boat.
Pause the video and write what you would do in the comments section below... Honestly man, I don't trust jacks at all. I'm either getting screwed by a jack I have, a jack someone else has, or a jack I need and can't get. I'd prefer to just light them on fire and call an exorcist. There's really only two things a caller CAN be doing, chasing or slowplaying. So I'm going with option B, a small bet. If they're slowplaying the nuts I lose a small pot. If they were chasing, maybe diamonds, and have given up, they weren't gonna call anyway so I'm not missing any value. If they were chasing and are determined to go one more time, the small bet charges them a nominal service fee, without putting my neck in the noose in case they suck out.
I check back the turn, thinking I'm either (or both) giving myself a free card and/or pot controlling. What's funny is, if the river was instead a blank here, I probably lose more by calling a value bet greater than $110. Without the live tells, I'd call $150 to bluff catch a 10d8d or Adxd. Nice hand though.
I think it’s a check on the turn pretty much 100% of the time . You’ve got to realize you are beat when getting called by 2 players . Poor play just cost you a big pot
I hate checking turn because there are so many river cards that are scary, but how can we justify a turn bet based on the action so far? If we think our opponents are strong and this board favors their range already, we should be trying to pot control and get to showdown cheaply. After seeing the second call on flop I'm almost giving up on this hand, nitty as that sounds. I just want to get to river and call off a smaller bet, looking to catch bluffs and any smaller pair that decided to go for value thinking they might have the best hand.
Oh, by the way, I just got done watching the Alex Fitzgerald JJ video. Now I'm off to the casino to apply some of that logic. Have a peaceful day everyone!
He checks the turn, the River as a 2 of diamonds. Now, what does he do? He would have allowed the draws to get there for free. Given that they had Full Houses, a small blank would have cost him even more in the River. You are only saying that because you know what the opponents turned over.
would've checked this one tbh, and if I was in this scenario I then would have still been in the hand with the highest full house and gotten paid off by the other full houses :). (Made this decision before I saw the river)
I think for the extra 200.00 into a 1800.00 pot, I would have called. I would look at it like the guy had a Dimond draw and was trying to put me off my hand. as long as you got it right once every five times in your poker career you would be ok.
I like the $110 bet he made. Checking back is a mistake. Your hand dont realize a lot of equity (2 outs) and they have so many hands that realize equity very well when you give them a free card. Bet small and you will get raised a lot vs good players. Easy fold when they raise your $110 bet.
Honestly. I would have probably checked that turn. When the flop goes check, check, then I bet and both guys call. I'm putting both of them on draws or possible 7's in their hands. More than likely 1 draw and 1 seven. So I'd be reluctant to bet the turn. So if I did bet the turn. It 100% would have been on the smaller size. Then folded to a check raise.
Okay. I just watched the end result of the hand. If I check that turn like I said I would. I'm rivering a boat and stacking both players. That board was amazingly disgusting lmao.
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What would YOU do with J♥ J♣ on the turn?
Your Stack (HJ): $925
Their Stacks (BB, UTG): $>1,000
Pot: $180
Board: 7♠ 7♦ 4♦ 9♣
BB & UTG Check
A) Check
B) Bet $60 (small)
C) Bet $120 (medium)
D) Bet $180 (large)
A). check
Many small stakes players love to play 9 7
I immediately thought check and call a non 3/8/diamond river maybe even Ace depending on the sizing
Into two opponents who called the flop, I think it’s an easy check. Best to see a free river and evaluate from there
A) check - I don't love JJ here with the way the action went and I am worried about the early limper.
Check turn because it’s 3 way pot and that board texture favors their range more than Jaman’s range. Between the 2 opponents they can have a 7, 4-4, 9-9, diamonds where Jaman doesn’t have those very often. So to me they can check raise a lot of holdings (diamond draws, a 7, full houses, and air) because we can have broadway type cards, suited aces, and over pairs which are gonna have a tough time continuing in a 3 way pot. Looks super strong to check raise in a 3 way pot at the 2-5 level. So I would check turn and call most reasonable river bets. A little different hand/situation if I have A-9 in position and flop comes 9-7-3. I bet flop 1/2 pot turn comes 4. Check check turn for the reason of I want my opponent to bet into me on the river with all of their holdings even if an over card comes. (Air, missed draws, 2nd/3rd pairs, ets. Call any reasonable bet when they do that. Most people can’t help themselves with their air and also bet 2nd/3rd pairs. If they check again bet 1/3 pot or check depending on your live read of person is. Made a decent amount of money playing games at the 2-5 level this way. Hard to get 3 streets of value with A-9 on that board but it’s the best way I have found at that level. Sorry a little off topic.
Jaman's videos are amazing and unique. He definitely puts in the time to go beyond poker hands
One thing that not mentioned here and very important, on TURN, its always a check back anyway, against two people and IP and with these suits i am checking back turn PURE, as the EV in catching river bluffs is greater than the 110 u might get from very few combos and you are unblocking all the Jx of diamonds which they have many combos, and i was writing this before see river but when they have nut flush draws etc the jack diamonds river coolers the sheeet out of them, just pure checking back with JJ no diamond the EV for the reasons i stated is much greater than when u bet and get check raise bluffed too!
I'm checking turn because it keeps my range to include some draws I mightve fired aggressively on the flop with, giving me more bluffs on the river, and keeping all my opponents losing combos in. I think a check on this turn is the easiest action to keep balanced, because even though it would be nice to get value from diamonds and some straight draws, it's less likely for two opponents to have diamonds, which means we have to consider being up against stronger pocket pairs or better a decent chunk of the time. we want to keep the pot smaller since we have so little draws that improve our hand, essentially only a jack or a 7, and our opponents draws give them so much showdown value, and a check has the bonus of the pot control aspect.
Draws dont give showdown value! Wt?
Phil Gordon had a simply theory, small hand/small pot, big hand/big pot. In position I would have checked the turn...and I agree with folding on the turn after getting check-raaised.
You're absolutely right about those types of tells. I had that very thing happen in my last session. I had JJ on the button against an early limper and the BB (of course I raised preflop). The flop is Q 8 5 rainbow and it checks to me. I could be behind a Q, but I could be ahead and get value from an 8, a 5, and hands like 67, 10 9 and random floats. I bet and the BB calls. When the Q hit the turn I saw the BB shift up in his seat before checking. I checked behind. I binked a J on the river and sure enough the BB bets. When I raised he was absolutely bewildered and snap called. If I hadn't noticed I may have bet the turn and had to fold to the check-raise.
Check back certainly gives us the easiest river decision and we probably aren't getting called by many worse pocket pairs anymore. Yeah we would like to charge the draws but this has the potential to get ugly.
Edit: Jacks apparently give off Wilhelm screams when thrown
He bet 50 into 80 and gets 2 callers on flop but the pot is 180 on the turn?? How does nobody notice this???
4:20 I think we should bet small. There are a lot of draws out there and suited hands w/ the 9d will call us. Idk these opponents, but there are players who will call a turn bet w 88 or limped w 1010. And we can always just fold to a large check raise
lots of draws but with 2 callers it becomes far more likely that one of them, especially the overcaller has real strength.
Learned something here. I would have def. bet around 120 on the turn. Now I'll try your advice of keeping weak made hands in with a smaller bet. Will be interesting to see how that works in my games, which are micros. Up to now I've assumed that a 4 would fold to any bet.
I played at the Encore just last week (Great poker room by the way) and I had this same scenario. With two callers after a C-bet paired board on the flop, checking the turn is the only play. In my case the "J" didn't come on the river, but I saved myself some money because my opponent flopped a set.
Check back for pot control. Facing 2 callers, the likelihood to be beat goes up, also you don't have many strong hands in range which could be exploited by a thinking opponent. Then call brick rivers and fold on bad rivers.
i think the turn is a pretty clear bet-fold spot, with plans to check back almost all rivers. A lot of live players will get sticky with a 4 because, as Jaman said, the 9 is a pretty big brick. It's player dependent, but based on the flop action I think that villains' ranges are going to be very draw-heavy so we want to charge a hefty price. Obviously that wasn't the case this time, but overall I think bet-folding is pretty profitable here. There are a lot of bad rivers so it would suck to check behind on the turn and be forced to call a $150+ bet from one of the villains.
So betting turn is good for 110$ + (maybe even more based on your comment ) but then checking and having to call 150$ is bad?
I mean it’s not a fun position but if you’re okay betting 100-150+ on Turn .... then checking and having to call 150$ on river is almost the same thing financially.
It’s gonna def depend on what the river is ... but I think checking gets you more EV in long run.
@@MINNESOTA_PTSD if he's bluffing the turn it's with high equity draws that we're not that far ahead of (even those would want to check behind sometimes), and we don't beat any value hands that would bet the turn when checked to.
And yes, I would rather lose $110 than $150.
Yea I think a small turn bet is fine,the 9 really is a brick.Draws will continue to small and maybe sticky players with small pairs.
I would check in this scenario to control the size of the pot multi way and perhaps induce a bluff from one of the opponents. I’d tread very lightly though
Thanks for the introduction, JL. I have just subscribed to JB.
Nice!
Poker room at Encore is well run and very nice.
When poker set you up to not win, it set you up to not win.
When poker set you up to lose, it set you up to lose.
When poker set you up to win, it set you up to win.
haha.
I would consider checking the turn for pot control
Tough spot. I think Jamen played it perfectly but as they say.... Thants poker! Love it!!
That seems like a classic way ahead/way behind situation on the turn, once you get called twice, unless the players are terrible, which calls for passive play. If you check it back, and it goes bet fold to you , you might be able to snap off a bluff. If you bet here, what’s your plan on the river? Is this hand good enough to win three bets?
Great, helpful Vlog! Thank you, Jonathan! 🍀🍀🍀
Glad you enjoyed it!
I saw this hand in one of his vlogs, so the outcome was known. But, I can understand his turn bet, personally I'd have gone for a smaller bet to try and gain insight into possible holdings. Who knows, a smaller turn bet might have gotten both of them to slow play their boats, and wait for the river to play their strong holdings.
In hindsight, would have checked the turn to hit the malicious river card, but that's not what we always do.
I can see either play on the turn, just wouldn't go as large as Jaman did, to get the sam information, but based upon both the check call, and then the check raise, folding any over pair was the right move. We all have done it, and then seen the river would've given us the nuts, but if you play that way, you will always lose more then you'll be winning, and then please 🙏 play at my table.
Great video Jonathan.
Thanks!
I'm checking back turn against two players here looking to call down on safe rivers depending on how the river action goes. I would bet against one player on that type of board. The only hands you beat that call a turn bet are combo draws, a 4 is likely folding and no one should have a 9.
UTG re raises there are scary. KK & AA are even in the reraise range.
I would check back here looking to call a reasonable bet on the river and if checks to me i might go for thin river value depending the river.
Jason does have a unique approach but his site is very entertaining.
Also Jonathan Little has a posting on how to play Jack Jack.
Thx for your thoughts - really good analysis. Greetings from Germany.
Thanks for watching!
The information gained after the flop bet gets called by both players out of position especially from BB (774 smashes BB range) and UTG (can have all the nut flush draws and over pairs) for me would have put me in check back mode on the turn after they check through to me again and then I'd get paid off on the river when the Jack peels.
IMO alarm bells should have been going off in his head when they both flat call the preflop 5x raise then flat call the roughly 2/3s pot flop bet then like you said when you get check raised huge on the turn you have to fold your 2 pair with the overpair that had showdown value and could have got to showdown for free.
I'm checking turn after the flop goes call call I'm a tight nit
Bet small and fold to raises
I think I like to Check the turn. Not worried about much over cards except a few Broadway and ace combos of diamonds.pot control. Your overall equity vs 3 way ranges has gotta be low here, like 30%? Why bloat the pot as well as risk getting bluffed off. And you hit that jack 4.5% of time on river! Oh and now edit I just saw that the jack came haha my point exactly
I would have checked the turn, simply because there's more hands that have you beat that would call your bet, and a lot of hands won't just call you, they'll raise you. I would have tried to get to showdown as cheap as possible
This line is what I would have done as well. And probably called most river bets unless both draws hit.
I don't mind the shove by the BB, he's giving UTG a reasonable price, I mean what does the BB do on the river oop? BB should check to the UTG player and he checks back so much, most 7x that the UTG has are going to be checked back after BB calls his raise on the turn if he's a good player.
I think I check it back. I have a hand that has show down value, and if someone does have a big hand I am probably burning money. I think this makes my hand a bit face up, but I feel like getting tricky would prob just cost me money.
What a crazy round!!!
I would raise on the turn with a half pot bet. Hoping to push one of them out without a straight or flush possibility on the board. Pocket kings pocket Queens pocket aces a three of a kind a four of a kind and three different types of Full House's. Him being the original raiser it's very unlikely that they would have anything else better. But I guess we will see.
Im mostly betting 60 on turn and snap folding to any aggressive action and sometimes checking like 10 % of time
I'm checking back on the turn. Something doesn't smell right with 2 calls of my $50 flop bet.
Wow that is painful. I like his line though except for turn sizing is a little big as JL says. It's easy to type in the youtube comments to check back JJ on that turn. But in game, you already know that if you do that, the river will definitely be the king of diamonds or the 6 of diamonds or the ace of spades or something like that
Check / Call or Check / Fold the turn
That was brutal
Hard to not sound results oriented after seeing the river. But the 9 helps the BB and UTG limp range a lot more than ours, on a board that already favors them. My thought on the turn is to not re-open the action into those strong ranges and call almost any river bet since the pot was only going to be 180. I was even joking to myself, "imagine you re-open, have to fold, and the river is a jack" :'( damn lol nice video
YEah, no...im always betting that turn...100%!
In this game, bad players are on occasion rewarded for their blunders.
Betting $120, get value from 88's, 10's, diamond draws. If either/both flat, see what river brings, if either check raises, fold.
two people calling either already have you beat, or have draws that have you beat. if it's just one opponent, maybe you can get them to fold their draw. but out of two, both aren't going to fold usually so you HAVE TO check this turn and just see the river. if it's beneficial for their draws, you can fold. if it's the jack, you can get it all in. there's no reason to bet the turn here that I can see. just opens you up to being exploited.
I played a hand like this last night. Except I didn't get away and I didn't hit the river......
Check, against two players on this paired board, you don't have much fold equity, especially folding out both hands, and you can be pretty certain you do not have the best hand now, remember they also should be worried what you have. My guess one person has the 7 ,and the other has an over pair.
Paired two flush board in a multi-way hand should we not be sizing like 20%-30% ?!?
Depends on the spot, and likely not in live cash games.
When both runners just call the flop bet, I feel like one of them has the nuts and is hoping to let someones flush get there. At 2/5 only the best flush draws call on a paired board, and that is more my range not really theirs. When the second one calls my flop bet, I give them 7x, 88, 99, TT. When the turn is a 9 and they both check again it feels even more like they want to let a straight or flush get there. I totally check this turn behind with JJ and fold on river if I don't improve.
Omg I was totally thinking check on the turn for pot control, if only..
Make an over bet on that flop with JJ, anyone calls check it down and if your opponent bets just fold, lose less on long term, flush draw would not call 70 percent of the time if that's the case unless they're super loose
4:30 I BET POT
If I bet I think I would bet small but checking is fine as well.
Check (of course) - as noted with 2 callers it seems (with no other information) that one of the 2 hands is strong or very draw happy. So why not get a free card and make a decision based on that
I'd check on the river.
Good fold on that 400 raise
Low and paired board and two callers on the flop? check back is the most safe move here, with a sweet surprise on the river too 🤑
3 full houses - probably one of the sickest hands I've ever seen.
Check
Definitely check / fold
The two opponets both checked, why not just check back in this situation? He was most likely behind, if the river shows a Jack he can trap them, if not easy fold right?
I'd be on the nitty end of things for sure checking back. Getting called twice does not make me feel happy about my overpair one bit. I'd have called a bet on a brick river and folded to a raise, most likely. Obviously not on the river that he got there, though ;)
7:47 I've made that mistake so many times
That's crazy man but even if he checks behind the turn he may end up paying to some degree on the river as well and losing some portion of the time to rivered straights, 7's, FH's, flushes and maybe even QQ+ so I think as played it's fine he is good enough to get away from it when they raise so betting is fine there!
Medium or check here… I would lean towards check
Ok. Seems to me you don’t want to let draws realize their equity, but you don’t want to build a huge pot when you might be way behind. So I think you need a little protection and checking behind won’t do that. Someone with a 7 will need to raise, but draws won’t want to raise. Straight and flush draws have about 20% equity, 1/3 pot is not giving them a super price, I think I would bet about 70.
Small bet
Nice answer. Equity realization is the key on this spot.
But if you bet small a good player will raise your bet with his draws.
I like the $110 bet he made.
3 full boats... ouch! Crazy hand
Had a similar hand with KK on MP and next to act and bb called flop is J99 I bet like 50%pot next to act calls then bb shoves for a little bit over and I was wondering if I should raise but couldn’t anyway since it was too small so both call turn is a king I bet again he calls river is a T and I Hollywood a little and go all in and this guy tank folded T9 for river boat and bb shows JJ. So flopped boat then turn boat and river boat.
Just wow!!!!
Probably checking on the turn
Pause the video and write what you would do in the comments section below...
Honestly man, I don't trust jacks at all.
I'm either getting screwed by a jack I have, a jack someone else has, or a jack I need and can't get.
I'd prefer to just light them on fire and call an exorcist.
There's really only two things a caller CAN be doing, chasing or slowplaying.
So I'm going with option B, a small bet.
If they're slowplaying the nuts I lose a small pot.
If they were chasing, maybe diamonds, and have given up, they weren't gonna call anyway so I'm not missing any value.
If they were chasing and are determined to go one more time, the small bet charges them a nominal service fee, without putting my neck in the noose in case they suck out.
If only i had seen this video yesterday! Bahaha
13:08 LOLOLOL
Check the turn, a
I check back the turn, thinking I'm either (or both) giving myself a free card and/or pot controlling.
What's funny is, if the river was instead a blank here, I probably lose more by calling a value bet greater than $110. Without the live tells, I'd call $150 to bluff catch a 10d8d or Adxd.
Nice hand though.
I think it’s a check on the turn pretty much 100% of the time . You’ve got to realize you are beat when getting called by 2 players . Poor play just cost you a big pot
I hate checking turn because there are so many river cards that are scary, but how can we justify a turn bet based on the action so far? If we think our opponents are strong and this board favors their range already, we should be trying to pot control and get to showdown cheaply. After seeing the second call on flop I'm almost giving up on this hand, nitty as that sounds. I just want to get to river and call off a smaller bet, looking to catch bluffs and any smaller pair that decided to go for value thinking they might have the best hand.
How could the pot possibly be 180 on the turn in a three pot with a 25 raise pre and a 50 bet on turn
check on the turn
I like checking multi-way in this spot
Answer...
Watch alex Fitzgerald
I need that tattooed on my eyelids. "Just let it go." Can't do it
Pot control check
I think I finally got one right!! My poker coaching membership paying off!! 💪
DAMN THAT USCKS
Oh, by the way, I just got done watching the Alex Fitzgerald JJ video. Now I'm off to the casino to apply some of that logic. Have a peaceful day everyone!
Awesome, good luck!!
wow - checking is never a bad idea when you don't "feel" it
Shoulda checked, easy fold with two guys in
His mistake was not taking the free turn, he checks back he runs into that final J scoops it
Woulda been a fat fat payday wow . A kick in the nuts but that’s poker the beauty of it
He checks the turn, the River as a 2 of diamonds. Now, what does he do? He would have allowed the draws to get there for free. Given that they had Full Houses, a small blank would have cost him even more in the River. You are only saying that because you know what the opponents turned over.
That jack hurt my soul… :( hahaha
Either check or small bet .65
U said a shove would get weak 7s to fold, so jamming a flush draw could get those 7s to fold. Only a boat would have us drawing dead
As BB, I'm shoving all my full houses.
would've checked this one tbh, and if I was in this scenario I then would have still been in the hand with the highest full house and gotten paid off by the other full houses :). (Made this decision before I saw the river)
I think for the extra 200.00 into a 1800.00 pot, I would have called. I would look at it like the guy had a Dimond draw and was trying to put me off my hand. as long as you got it right once every five times in your poker career you would be ok.
I think i wouldve just checked turn for pot control. Dont love betting into 2 opponents here
I like the $110 bet he made. Checking back is a mistake. Your hand dont realize a lot of equity (2 outs) and they have so many hands that realize equity very well when you give them a free card.
Bet small and you will get raised a lot vs good players.
Easy fold when they raise your $110 bet.
Honestly. I would have probably checked that turn. When the flop goes check, check, then I bet and both guys call. I'm putting both of them on draws or possible 7's in their hands. More than likely 1 draw and 1 seven. So I'd be reluctant to bet the turn. So if I did bet the turn. It 100% would have been on the smaller size. Then folded to a check raise.
Okay. I just watched the end result of the hand. If I check that turn like I said I would. I'm rivering a boat and stacking both players. That board was amazingly disgusting lmao.
I knew checking the turn was the best moove
“Wow. Just wow.” I’ve probably said that 1,000 times.
just to nitpick, it's not a check-raise shove, it's a back-raise shove.