The way Garrosh's voice kind of cracks when he yells "You left me!" honestly makes it sound like he was genuinely broken by Thrall leaving when he did. Like he needed Thrall to guide him and he wasn't there when he needed him most. He did what he thought was best for the Horde, but needed his mentor then more than ever before.
While Thrall has made a mistake of making him warchief, Garrosh made his crimes with his own hand and he had to pay for them. Garrosh's death is well deserved.
Imagine how hilarious it would be if right before Thrall is about to kill Garrosh, Taran Zhu shows up from nowhere and says "Let him stand trial in pandaria lol"
Well technically he couldn't be tried again because in the novel War Crimes, garrosh was declared innocent by the celestials, who were the jury, and in the American court system, you cannot try someone for the same charges if they have already had a trial.
In multiple time lines it's suggested that Garrosh was the best Warchief the Horde ever saw. Garrosh was actually an exceptionally good leader for the Horde in Cataclysm. Garrosh chose genocide and dealing with otherworldly powers in pursuit of power. He could have been great, but he chose to walk a path of evil; it was his choices that lead to his death.
Garrosh was responsible for his own actions. True, Thrall named him Warchief, but that’s it. Nobody made Garrosh become a tyrant and genocidal maniac but himself (and the uninspired, lackluster writers at Blizzard).
+Xavier Vega I guess he thought Garrosh respected him more, and respected the Horde that he had created along with it's alliances with the other races and peace (sometimes...) with the Alliance, but Garrosh just said screw it and just became a warmongering tyrant. He chose Garrosh because most of the orcs liked him as the hero son of Hellscream, and it was to keep the Horde happy while he was away, guess he didn't count on Garrosh killing Cairne and treating the other races of the Horde like dirt.
+Xavier Vega Well Garrosh had daddy issues and self-confidence problems so I guess Thrall just took it as one subtle sign of it. He was obviously wrong but as mentioned above, if he truly didn't want it he could've refused. And still not a excuse to all his wrong doing.
1:07 "YOU LEFT ME" Anyone else sense a bit of sorrow in the way Garrosh says that? 1:13 "YOU. FAILED. ME!" Alright that's definitely yelled with grief and dissapointment hidden underneath all that rage.
That's the sad part - He wanted help and he knew that Thrall knew he needed help. He's upset and he's angry...But he's a proud warrior who did all he knew how to: Fight.
NOPE! Because Garrosh fucking wanted Warchief anyways at the beginning of WotLK HE challenges Thrall to Mak'gora, it;s interrupted when the scourge invasion begins.
Garrosh were a "True Orc" tho. He didnt mean to kill cairne bloodhoof (Baine is the son right? or is it the other way around?) But a Grimtotem Tauren poisened his axe, tho she said she would "Enchant it". in Order to take over Thunder bluff. When Garrosh noticed the poison on his axe, he did not help her to take Thunder bluff and she failed. Sorry for making this comment like a wall of text, but Garrosh essentially tried to make The Horde stronger, which mau seem unfair to certain races. But in the end Thrall made him the Warchief, which kinda shows Thralls poor skills to judge personalities ^^
it was thrall that came to outland and showed grom hellscreams last battle with mannoroth to garrosh. before that garrosh was a emo bitch with no will to fight. that is what he is talking about. thrall was trying to motivate him to fight and defend his people, garrosh just didnt know how to stop. garrosh was a run away freight train and thrall pulled the lever.
Mattias Garcés Garrosh definitely DID mean to kill Cairne (yes, you got them the right way round), he just felt cheated because he found out he didn't get to do it all himself. The poison didn't kill Cairne, the axe in his skull, swung by Garrosh with homicide aforethought, did. The poison just rendered him unable to defend himself. It could possibly have been fatal if given time, but Magatha wouldn't have wanted to chance on her treachery being revealed by Cairne dying without being wounded, so most likely would just have been disabling.
he really did fail garrosh.he went through his whole life not knowing his father. and just when he needed his new father figure the most. that one also left him. obviously thralls voiced by one of the grand daddy's but after wc3 thrall kinda dips huge in how he does things politically.
I freaking LOVE this cutscene. You expect it to be this awesome "Look at thrall deal the justice! Finally! Good guys win! Party!" but it's not. The music and atmosphere are very somber, the emotion in Garrosh's voice just shows how misunderstood of a character he is, even to those unfamiliar with the deeper aspects of his character. It's not even a happy thing when Garrosh dies, it goes back to the calm and sad piano tunes that really make you think. Like thrall or not, you can't argue that this cutscene was anything short of perfect.
Several expansions later: "You WILL submit!" "I SUBMIT TO NO ONE! NOT TO YOU! NOT THE JAILER! AND NOT TO THAT COWARD THRALL! FOR THE HORDE!". GadDAMN if Garrosh hasn't become one of my favorite characters.
He is the very last pieces of Warcraft that i know. A little bit of over masculine (yeah i know it's wrong to have this trait nowadays). But that's how i remember them stories. Now it's all sing and dance, even the most corrupted war criminal feminist is redeemable by shooting 1 arrow to the big boss, regardless of burning the aussies forest and destroying yugoslavia
*WARCRAFT MOVIE SPOILER* There was this scene in the movie where Durotan wanted to show people Gul'dan was not an orc of honor so he challenged him to Mak'gora and ultimately Gul'dan was forced to use his magic to defeat him. The laws of Mak'gora forbid this however and people started calling him a cheater and said they would stop following him... it was all meant to show how evil and honorless Gul'dan was but.. to be honest, it's not that different from what Thrall did here.
Honestly, why does it matter that Thrall cheated? That's like someone challenging Hitler to a duel with swords and complaining when the challenger shoots Hitler with a pistol.
And this is why i suspect that Thrall lost his touch with the elements and gave up Doomhammer, because he used the elements in a Mak'gora, a sacred duel where warrior faces warrior, the only shamanistic powers allowed in a Mak'gora are blessings before the fight itself... So yeah, in basic terms... Thrall cheated, and therefor the elements have abandoned him, he broke the rules of Mak'gora and ruined his honor.
Eddie 'JaggSauce' Gluskin The elements still value the traditions of the orcs considering the orcs tended to them for years, and orcish honor is derived from the elements, their entire culture revolves around their ancestors and the elements, of course if the elements see that an orc is no longer honorable they might not see them worthy anymore... Thrall let his emotions take the better of him and he was punished for it, he used the elements in dishonorable combat and cheated, just like how they refused Gul'dan because of Gul'dan's intentions and thirst for power, they are tightly bound through emotions and will
Thrall was something of a role-model for him, as he was the one to tell him the tales of Grommash. Thrall making those bad decisions really influenced Garrosh. He felt his "father" failed him.
You know what would have made this cinematic better, or at least somewhat less controversial? If, at the end, when Garrosh is clenched in the fist, he says "YOU MADE ME WHAT I AM!" And thrall says, "I know." He admits it. He admits that he should have chosen a better warchief, that it was, in a way, his fault Garrosh ended up this way. To make things even better, they could have a tear coming down Thrall''s cheek, or have him follow up with an "I'm sorry." just before he hits him with the bolt of lightning. And also, didn't you people listen to thrall when he says "You chose your own destiny"? He doesn't sound sure of himself. He sounds like he's reassuring himself. Thrall is a coward - afraid to admit his mistakes - but at the very least, on some level, i think he knows what he did is wrong.
***** Thing is, Thrall shouldn't admit that he choose wrong because he didn't. He layed down the groundwork for Garrosh to follow, he left him his advisers from the other Horde races and it was Garrosh who choose not to listen to them. During that time, the Horde, Orcs specifically, needed a hero and Saurfang, the one who Thrall WOULD have chosen, was devastated after the death of his son [and he died twice since we kill him again after he was reborn as a Death Knight]. The Orcs needed a hero, what better hero than the son of Grommash Hellscream himself? Someone who also fought in Northrend? Thrall didn't make him what he was, Thrall's only mistake was not staying at his side to advice him further [of course, the Cataclysm happened so Thrall COULD NOT stay at his side]. Like he says, Garrosh choose his own destiny by not following what the Horde represented, by not listening to his advisers and friends.
+Matt D Yes Thrall is a base-cowards hiding behind self-made excuses and Garrosh had every single reason to act like that. Garrosh gave Thrall PERFECT REASONS to counter and Thrall failed at every attempt because he was guilty.
+AzureRoxe I'd like to point out that after Cairne mistakenly accused Garrosh of sending the Orcs to kill the druids, and he had to kill Cairne in the duel, everyone hated him. No one wanted to help Garrosh at that point. To be fair, that's what started Garrosh's downfall, Cairne thinking Garrosh sent those Orcs, when he didn't. The entire thing was a misunderstanding, and Cairne, being the old Tauren he was, should not have thought it wise to challenge an Orc Warrior in his prime. When you look at it, everything that happened during Cata and part of MoP was Cairne's fault.
Probably the best thing about this(Though the resolution that Garrosh chose his own destiny is wrong), is that Garrosh is killed literally on the same exact spot where in Outland Thrall met him. They fight at the place where Garadar would later be built. This was the closing of the loop and a pretty damn awesome way of literally coming full circle. "Ends where it begins."
@@filb1324 What warcrimes? Theramore? Theramore was a legitimate military target, moreso then Taurajo. Garrosh did not want to be Warchief, even told Thrall that he was not up for it and all advisors told Thrall that it was a bad idea as well, Thrall ignored all of it and left Garrosh with a mess to pick up and then, Thrall barely having left the city, Vol'jin not only disrespects him, but also threatens to murder him. Cairne accusing him of shit he didn't do and then being forced to win a Mak'gora through a poisoned weapon that he knew nothing about. Thrall put him on this path. Thrall is to blame.
@@imaran1303 Thrall isn't to blame on my point of view. garrosh choosed to do what he did as a warchief theramor wasn't a legit target, not if you use the mana bomb to wape out most of the city inhabitants. This includes civilians, children, who died because of garrosh's choices. Not Thrall's
@@filb1324 It was more valid then Taurajo, that is for sure. And he didn't want to be Warchief to begin with, he told Thrall flat out that he was a Warrior, not a politician. So he tried to fix the problems as a Warrior would. My people are starving? There are fertile grounds just around the corner, why do we starve? Because the Elves are selfish pricks? Nah! Taurajo was butchered? Alright, send in troops to deal with it, get the Alliance off of the Gate to Mulgore cause Baine is being a useless cunt and shit! Theramore is fueling the war in the Barrens? Alright, I have to take that port off the map to keep the Alliance from continuing the fight. And don't get me started on MoP, the Alliance did just as many fucked up things, need I remind you of the slaughter of Orcish sailors that had surrendered and simply not tried to drown? Yeah, and you blame Garrosh for calling Baine and Vol'jin out for the Alliance bootlickers that they are. 'Oh! But he tried to assassinate Vol'jin!' Hard to feel sympathy for a guy who disrespected the guy from day one and even threatened to murder him the same day he was made Warchief, against his fucking will. The people around him pushed him on that path, had Vol'jin and Cairne actually done what they were supposed to, guide him... instruct him.... then perhaps this shit wouldn't have happened.
@@imaran1303 Nothing still excuse Garrosh's actions. He commited warcrimes by bombing theramore. Nothing can change that fact for me. call me blind or whatever you want, i know my reasonnment is based on solid logic. I may just don't have the same criteria you have to judge of someone the thing to do from the start is to make peace with the alliance. to bounce on the subjetcts, it seems by how you phrased it that you are making the complete alliance responsible for the orcish sailors massacrer, when only a certain number of people were involved in this event, not the entire alliance warcrimes shall not be taken unseriousely, may they came from the hand of garrosh, jaina, or any of thoses fictional characters I *understand* that garrosh basically did what he was train to do and that he has his reasons, but i do not excuse the massacrers and atrocities he commited. I do not excuse ether the camps made to enslave the orcs after the first war. I don't excuse the slaughter of the bloodelve in dalaran orchestred by jaina garroah was an adult when he was name warchief. Thrall maybe should have train him to be warchief before leaving, but garrosh wasn't an influencable kid with when he was made warchief. garrosh lacked the empathy to completly discern what is right from what is wrong. his true error is to never have listen to anyone who tried to stop him, and never putted himself in question ether. Any goodhearted persson should have the capacity to put themself in question, and to at least try to repent themself when they did something horrible like garrosh did. garrosh was lacking this will to open himself to other. And Thrall isn't responsible for that
"Honor, young hero. No matter how dire the battle, never forsake it." Thrall gives away Doomhammer in Legion because he says something like "it hasn't been responding to him anymore since he killed Garrosh." Even Thrall knows he fucked up and cheated. Even Thrall knows he sullied his honor. You can all stop defending him now. He's nowhere near perfect. He's no "green Jesus." He made some horrible decisions since he left the horde. I don't fully blame him, because he saved the world, and he seriously needed some time to have his own life. Warchief was sort of thrust upon him and was his job/responsibility for too long. He wasn't able to focus on obtaining a wife, family, or anything normal. After leaving the horde behind he was able to do all that, plus saving Azeroth with his choices to further his shamanism. He REALLY fucked up with the whole Garrosh thing though. In many many ways.
I have to agree with all of that. If i were him it would seem to me that trying to have my own life just causes strife in the world around me. He left to get his own family, do his own thing, and in return the horde was twisted and split apart due to his thrusting power upon garrosh. He probably feels that everything is his fault in some way & that he should have listened to everyone else and chosen a diff leader.
Was it a mistake for Thrall to put Garrosh in charge? Yea probably, but in the end it wasn't Thrall who decided to mana bomb Theramore, it was Garrosh. He was a grown adult capable of making his own choices, he could have very well followed green jesus' example, but he got a huge boner from hearing stories about how heroic and awesome his dad's death was and so tried and failed to live up to that. He may have had pressure on him, but most of it came from himself, not Thrall.
HE would rather sully his honor than allow a monster like Garrosh to ever harm anyone of his friends, to be "Honest " (Pun intended)" His deeds were the honest one as he made sure no one would die at his hand again and FYI why didn't thrall rek him i mean argument stands thrall's entire youth with him trained to be a killing machine, not only that but all his other heroic acts.
+Ryan Flood Enhancement shamans get thrall's weapon in the next expansion, plus thrall uses his hammer a LOT during combat so he's definitely enhancement.
Garrosh was an orc of honor who would never kill helpless innocents. Until Blizzard's writers grew bored and wrote him differently. Hell, Garrosh switched between good and evil so many times, it just all depended on what quests you were doing. But at least Thrall remained consistent. Always running from responsibility, taking credit for other people's work, always asking others to do the work for him, and blaming others for his own failures.
+redwane hamida I disagree, I think Garrosh's development was awful. You have to dig deep into his lore to even begin to understand him. I mean he starts off as a whiney baby worried about repeating his fathers mistakes (lul). Thrall takes him in and immediately Garrosh is a super xenophobe. You can read that he has a problem seeing such potential in the greatest orc city he's ever seen that has to give resources to trolls and undead. And the fact that humans and night elves push them around, and they live in a desert, when Ashenvale is right next to them. Garrosh's orc mind seems to only process that orcs take what they need, screw diplomacy. In WoTLK he was equal to Varian in terms of animosity towards the enemy faction. The difference is Varian has every reason to hate the Horde, they killed his father, razed his city to the ground, and then killed his mentor. Putting all that aside he still agreed to ally with them only for it to lead to the death of his men and best friend Bolvar. Garrosh has no such trauma. The best way to explain Garrosh by Cata is that he's an orc with daddy issues. Something pushed him over the deep end in MoP, desperation, the Sha, daddy issues, who knows. But from what I heard one of the Horde characters was to go bad and they tested the waters for it in Cata. It was either Sylvanas or Garrosh, and if it was Sylvanas people would have rioted. No one liked Garrosh anyway. It's not until this cinematic that I actually liked Garrosh. Thrall leaving him as Warchief (after only being in the Horde for 2 freakin years, as opposed to obvious choices like Saurfang or Cairne) then Thrall bailing on him like "Here bro good luck!" Must have really taken a toll on him. Thrall was like a brother to him and was the one to pull him out of the darkness.
energyzero77 Yeah I've read that and he still doesn't make sense to me. I think Garrosh is a shame to his father's legacy. I don't know much about Grom pre-WC3 where he is supposed to be a shell of himself and pretty damn old, but he didn't seem like an unreasonable moron. Just easily convinced or deceived. He screwed his people over by drinking the Blood of Mannoroth, he didn't know any better, had he and the other chiefs knew they were drinking the blood of a 50ft Interdimensional Space Demon bent on Multiverse destruction I'm pretty sure he would have decided against it.... He did it again in WC3 but it was either that or get torn to shreds by Cenarius.
Garrosh was manipulated by an old god or not? Most of everything is either manipulation by old gods or by the burning legion. Just how Nefarian was an honorable dragon that wanted to keep the world safe until he was manipulated by the old gods into betraying the other dragons and becoming deathwing.
Garrosh's turn to evil in MoP was largely our fault. Blizzard admitted they went too far with Garrosh, but the idea came from us because we couldn't handle anyone but Thrall as Warchief.
Thrall HAD to leave because of Deathwing (yeah, Azeroth would be in ruin if he didn't), it's not like he had a choice and said "Fuck this I'm out, going to Hawaii to chill. Hey Garrosh, you're Warchief now, deal with it". And he left him with the most experienced/best advisers of the Horde. Garrosh just didn't want to listen to them, so yes, Thrall did the best he could but Garrosh was too immature and power thirsted that he fucked it all up.
However Garrosh refused His proposal, but he was so sure that Garrosh could be Warcief, that even if Garrosh denied the Title, he would still dump the mantle of Warchief on his shoulders. Garrosh was so afraid of being an Honorless and Shameful Orc that he became mad with the power of a Warchief.
Yukine Chris Thrall gave him some of the best advisors in all of Azeroth. It's true that Garrosh became mad with all his new power. But Garrosh proved in the past that he is a capable leader, which is why Thrall entrusted the title of Warchief to him. And Thrall didn't just go on vacation. He fought Deathwing.
Gaspard Savoureux Sorry, but I must disagree. Thrall could have elected Cairne as Warchief or even one of his own advisers. But, no. Thrall had said in the book that the horde was pretty much racist and would only obey an orc, so he picked the most famous and hot headed orc because Saurfang was dead.
Lost respect for Thrall. This is literally the same as challenging someone to the duel on swords, but when you start losing, take out the gun and shoot your opponent in the face.
The Littlest Giant Yea, now that I actually looked up what a Mak'gora was you're right. But then again history is written by the victors so... you know "All's fair in love and war".
+Tiago Moura Thrall was trained since he was a baby (by Blackmoore) to be a warrior. He only started learning shamanism later in his life. So technically, he's kind of both classes. He's still a very skilled warrior, even though he's become one of the planet's greatest shaman, and according to the mak'gora rules, he basically cheated..
This is why I love Blizzard's storywriting. Despite the first glance, it really shows that there is no true 'good and evil'. All the main expac villains we've fought so far have suffered as much as the heroes have, and alot of their suffering was borne of the heroes' actions as well, even Deathwing if you read up on his lore. Despite Thrall denying what Garrosh said about creating what Garrosh is, it is certainly true. everything from putting a young, naive, and inexperienced orc who was prideful of his father's legacy, into a seat of immense pressure and political power, and simply leaving without teaching him anything after filling him with stories of how glorious the Horde was, to coming back and telling him how wrong he's been and throwing him behind bars, even up to what was said in this cinematic, I think Thrall was truly mistaken. If you ever read one of the World of Warcraft books like Paragons for example, you'd know that Garrosh looked up to Thrall like a hero and a rolemodel. Thrall is the one who told him stories of how glorious the Horde was and is while they were in Nagrand, and Thrall is the one who set even bigger shoes for Garrosh to fill than his father's and when there were so many problems with the world, political and otherwise, Thrall simply left Garrosh at the throne to go chase his little 'Go'el dreams'. That's just like driving out onto the freeway, putting your child in the driver's seat and walking away from the car. Thrall's biggest mistake was that he didn't give Garrosh proper guidance, and that's what I think truly made him into a villain. with all this in mind, it makes the cutscene _so_ much more _powerful_, especially when Garrosh's voice gets shaky and distraught at what Thrall is saying. People may bash WoW's storytelling, but I think this is why WoW has some of the best storytelling - it throws away foolish, cartoonish 'yin and yang' concepts of conflict and tells something alot more realistic, and sometimes dark.
This I can agree with, it's way too often than alot of recent/modern fiction tends to be all yin-yang like. It kind limits the creative writing process if everyone is only good or evil when in-fact that's not how most things work. Game of Throne is like this and most of the pre-07 era... shows that there are bad people and then less bad people.
Well, this ended much different than I expected... When I saw the shit that Garrosh did, I was excited as hell to be able to kill him in SoO, but then I found out that we don't kill him and he escapes. Since then, I was anticipating this moment, riled up to finally kill the Warchief of the Horde... ...but after watching this cutscene, I want Garrosh back. Sure, Garrosh was fucked up and did the crimes himself, but Thrall DID leave Garrosh, an inexperienced political leader, in charge of an entire faction, filled with many different races. If that's not the stupidest idea I've ever heard, then I don't know what is. The thing that makes me feel sorry for Garrosh is the remorse and sadness that I can hear in his voice, mainly at 1:06. It gives me the feeling that he was very scared when it came to leading the Horde; he was terrified that he would fail the Horde and make a mockery of himself. This could be why he went very aggressive; to show that anyone who would dare mock him would be punished. The majority of what Garrosh was saying was very true, at least from my understanding, and now that I like his character and would love to serve him if I was Horde, its too late. This cutscene was amazing, but deep inside, I hope that Garrosh somehow survived that. It's very unlikely, especially since that massive bolt of lightning hit him, but we technically do not see him die, we just see his arm. He could be unconscious for all we know. But, again, it is highly unlikely. I never though I would say this, but... R.I.P Garrosh Hellscream.
Untrue. If you were around during the transition from Wrath to Cataclysm, Garrosh voiced these very same concerns and Thrall told him outright that he had the best advisors the Horde had to offer - Vol'jin, Saurfang, Cairne, Eitrigg, and more - at his disposal. Thrall himself was completely under qualified to lead the Horde himself, but he surrounded himself with people like Drek'Thar, Doomhammer, Hellscream, and others for advice and guidance, and he started with even less than Garrosh was given; he offered the same path to Garrosh, and well...you can see how that turned out. The thing is, that part at 1:06? All it shows is that Garrosh is still the weak and pathetic orc he was back in TBC. It explains so much about why he reacted to everything with violence and threats: he's putting on a brave face, but he doesn't have the unbreakable will that Thrall has. Yeah, Thrall made a horrible decision putting Garrosh in charge, but he was hoping that the son of Hellscream would rise to the occasion like he did, not try to harness the power of a dead Old God as a weapon.
Pffft. Unlikely? I dont think so. If the story department is willing to bring back illidan, im sure they would bring him back if he still served a purpose in the story.
The raw emotion showed by Garrosh here was the best part of it. Big kudos to that voice actor. In a lot of ways, Thrall did set him up for failure... he wasn't a good choice for the job, Garrosh himself said he'd rather be a general than Warchief. Thrall then left and went off to save the world. Now, Garrosh DID have mentors in Thrall's stead... Eitrigg, Cairne, Saurfang... but he paid them little to no heed. That's where he chose his own destiny. He wrote his own handbook for strengthening the Horde instead of seeing what it already was, and listening to those who helped get it that far.
Tbf, he didn’t get help, Vol’jin outright said he would one day murder Garrosh, Cairne challenged Garrosh to Mak’Gorah and Sylvanas was out there doing genuine evil shit. The sad thing is we saw flickers of the Warchief he could be in Stonetalon Mountains and the invasion of the twilight highlands. I’d have loved a story where Garrosh truly struggles to lead but is mentored by Saurfang and it looks like he is on the right path, but then Garrosh goes off the deep end after Saurfang is killed, maybe by a Twilight Hammer assassin posing as an Alliance soldier
Thrall, you have no honor. Not only did you use external forces to win a Mak'gora. But you, in your arrogance, claimed that the elements was "your power" have you forgotten what it means to be a shaman? A shaman asks for the elements help, they respond to those they deem worthy and wise by borrowing a fraction of their power.
+Fullas Games to be fair this is a duel with a weaponsthe rule fight to the death with all you got so no cheatingif anything he cheat if he didn't use his powers since in fight to the death you meant to use your gretest weapon which for our green friend means his magic
+ryan bell First of all, Thrall had more armor than allowed, He used more than 1 "Weapon", And he had no witness, He also disregarded what the Celestials said.
i love how thrall tries to hide behind his green jesus armor saying he chose his own path, if garrosh had chosen his own path he'd probably be a general or something right about and not have to deal with all the crazy politics of a dieing world that thrall had pretty much forced him into
You know you made two great characters in an amazing fantasy setting when the love and hate that the fans have for them is equally distributed. It's like they each fought their inner demons when it came to the essence of this fight.
Dat Felryn Come again? Shamans, mages, etc historically have been allowed to use their powers in Mok'gora. Part of the way it works is that those challenging each other get to make their own rules. This was just a fight to the death.
jpz719 Then why did Thrall use the elements? I don't think you really understand the concept of Mok'gora. Mok'gora only allows 1 weapon and doesn't allow armour. Thrall used 2 weapons: His Doomhammer and the elements. Thrall used his full Doomhammer armour. Garrosh used one weapon: His Gorehowl. Garrosh used a belt which can be argued to be armour.
Dat Felryn Thrall knew Garrosh needed to be put down. It wasn't a matter of cheating, it was a matter of the fate of Azeroth. Had Garrosh not been put down by Thrall, he would have continued on his path and basically destroy everything. This wasn't a regular Mok'gora challenge it was a challenge of fate.
Funny how Garrosh did everything for the Horde (Storyline up to the MoP), then they made him a racist in his own faction (in MoP) and everyone calls him Bad, but yet.... Sylvanas has shown she doesn't care for the Horde (all other races) only the Forsaken and finally admits she didn't care for the horde and everyone still thinks shes is Right. I still think Garrosh was the best thing for the Horde, he was made to be like a younger Grom Hellscream, but people just couldn't get over Lazy Green Jesus. Garrosh has more Honor in him than the whole Horde Faction leaders put together (well until they decided to make him a Villian), and even after that, he still had more than most of the Horde Faction leaders. He would of fought to the end in Legion like Varian, but we have weak leaders who got their ass kicked by the Legion and crawled like cowards.
@darthvader1166 You're allowed pants, bracers and ONE weapon. Thrall had full body armor and used at least two weapons (doomhammer and elemental magic) you could theoretically argue each element is its own weapon in which case he used more than one weapon. No matter which way you cut it Thrall is a dirty cheater.
@@GylleneGott The whole thing about pants bracers and one weapon is not a universal rule. It's the "old ways", but those are not strictly adhered to since many years. The only consistent rules shown in every Mak'gora were: 1) A weapon may not be picked up again once dropped 2) Fight is until death or, rarely, submission. All other rules are custom rules that were agreed upon by both contestants beforehand.
Ze Master Baiter totally should have tried to do the back breaker, don't know how weel it would have worked though considering that Thrall had armor on under his robe
That's not my point. He used a mana bomb to win the fight. Which "true orc" fight like that? Someone who give a shit about the honorable traditions of the horde.
Nah, while you're right that Thrall did make Garrosh warchief, Garrosh made himself into a power hungry, war wacky despot. All his talk about Thrall making him what he was, was simply a deflection. He didn't have to alienate the entirety of the Horde, but he did. He didn't have to turn traitor and do all he did in WoD, but he did. At the end of the day, Garrosh is responsible for his actions, not Thrall. Good riddance to the son of Hellscream.
@lelwut What are you on about? for one, giving someone the power and status over your kid is what a babysitter does, idk where you're from, but they act as a stand in parent. and forgetting that whole thing and focusing solely on garrosh, he was clearly not okay with being warchief, and thrall was like "deal with it, it's you now." Everything he did with that power and status of warchief is his own AND thralls failings.
As many people did, I hated Garrosh in the beginning of Cataclysm. Then, I realized that he was neither good or bad, and he became what the other characters made of him. Garrosh was trying his best for the Horde, but he was betrayed by pretty much everybody, a misunderstood character. In the end, I think he was one of the best characters in warcraft. On the other side, I can't stand Thrall anymore. I loved him in W3, like everybody else I think. But since Cataclysm, he just became annoying. He is like the ultimate good guy and that pisses me off. I hope Blackhand or Grommash (or even Gul'dan, I wouldn't mind him) just kill him.
People like you piss me off. You turn your back on Thrall just as soon as Garrosh is dead. What is there to misunderstand? Garrosh was a nationalist (The Horde way or the High Way), a racists (He hated Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Goblins, Trolls, Pandarian, and Dreanei. careless for Taruen but respects them for being physically strong and nothing less despised the undead.) , a narcissist (He think that he is the greatest and blames everyone else for his failures while praising himself for every success) , a psychopath (He have no problems or moral delima in killing every man woman and child of an entire race or city if he deems them unworthy Theramore). Thrall ultimate good guy? that is what Adrian Wyrnn is being played into. Thrall dosen't want what happen to Dreanor created Outlands to happen to Azeroth so you hate him for that?
***** I wouldn't. Nobody else would either. Killing men, woman, children and elderly just for family, prestige, honor, glory, pride and race? That sounds like an Islamic Nazi Jehadist. Hail Ali! Hail Ali! Hail Ali! BOOOOOOOMMMM!!! In Garrosh Case Horde Ali Horde Ali Horde Ali BOOOOOOOMMMM!!!
kentokae You have to understand that the story is not so simple. Many people only care about the "Garrosh goes mad in mop" aspect, but there is way more than that. Garrosh did not choose to become warchief, he didn't want to. In the begining of the Cataclysm, Orgrimmar was heavely damaged, and Thrall leaves the city. So, Garrosh has to take the lead and rebuild the city. BUT, Thrall had the brilliant idea of building Orgrimmar in the middle of a wasteland. Durotar and the Barrens are depleted of ressources. So, Garrosh decides to invade Ashenvale. His advisors, Vol'jin, Cairne and some others disagree, but time is short, people are dying in the streets of Orgrimmar, the Horde needs to get her hands on some ressources ASAP. So, Garrosh starts the invasion of Ashenvale anyway. His advisors are unpleased, Vol'jin just leaves him. The next betrayal comes from Cairne. Some events including the Twilight's hammer lead Cairne to believe that Garrosh wanted to assassinate some druids, even though that was not true. Cairne challenges Garrosh to mak'gora, but somehow, the Grimtotem taurens managed to poison Gorehowl, and Cairne dies. After the events of the Wrathgate, Garrosh doesn't trust the Forsakens. He learns later that Sylvanas is using the Scourge's magic to turn humans into Forsakens. Garrosh is upset because Sylvanas is basically acting the way as the Lich King, so, he insults her in the process. At this point, Garrosh has been betrayed several times. He no longer trust anyone but his own kind. The events of MoP are just about this hatred rising. I just want people to understand that Garrosh did not choose this way, he was forced into it. He doesn't want to be a Warchief, but he has to. He did what he had to do for the survival of his people, and gets stabbed in the back. Vol'jin is truely the one who led everyone to betray Garrosh. What happened to the Trolls is ONLY because of Vol'jin, he brought it on himself.
Blame thrall. Dumb asses. Andriun became king of stormwind as a kid and did a better job then Garrosh. So what is Garrosh's excuse? Oh wait it's Thrall rolls eyes. Many major character have daddy issues, Jaina killed her father, the king watched his father die, Arthas killed his father, Thrall never knew or meet his father until WoD, oh and the king of iron forge daughter, Garrosh may have been in the worst case scenario experiencing Murphy's law at its finest, that still doesn't excuse him for being a racist, for committing genocide at theramore. You all claim that Garrosh didn't want to lead the horde. It is very funny that how all of you Garrosh Fanboys seem to have all forgot that he challenged Thrall for control of the horde just before WotLK. When shit hit the fan he all of the sudden was like you know what I don't want to be leader I changed my mind. If thrall had continued to lead the horde deathwing would still be around. If Garrosh didn't challenge Thrall for leadership and question his leadership all of the time, then Thrall most likely would have selected someone else. Stop Blaming and turning your back on Thrall. Garrosh didn't do anything for the horde.
Thrall didn't beat Garrosh, the elements did. They had fought 3 different times and Thrall lost each time he went toe to toe with Garrosh. Hes nothing without the elements getting involved.
Keep in mind that one time they fought, they got interrupted by the scourge. Another time, it wasn't a fair fight because Garrosh had the powers of Y'Sharrj. But I do agree, Thrall's a little bitch for using the elements.
4mped Thrall challenged Garrosh to a Mak'gora, which is an honor duel where the combatants on have one weapon, one witness each and no armor (only pants and boots) (copy pasta from Thomas Lanton)
xxxInfernofirexxx Under traditional rules yes, but the Mak'Gora between Thrall and Garrosh (which originally started in Wrath's pre-expansion event, where Thrall also used elemental powers) they decided on modern rules where they chose their own rules. It's safe to assume since we see no objection from Garrosh that elemental power was allowed.
So for those people saying that Thrall cheated.. The ONLY time you've ever heard of a Mak'gora that was simply weapons only, and no magic was in the non-canon badly made Warcraft movie where Gul'dan used his magic to win and the surrounding Orcs call him a cheater and confront him. This isn't the case for the game, and the actual Warcraft lore. A Mak'gora is a fight to the death with everything you have. Garrosh had brute strength, and Thrall had his Shamanistic magic. Thrall did NOT cheat. Ps. The Warcraft movie was pretty horrible..
Did the grass and storm remind anyone else of the very first cinematic from WC3? like when you first install the game and start it up you have the one of the human and orc fighting in a field before the infernal drops?
Garrosh is right here, honestly as the expansion progressed from Wotlk to WOD I understood Garrosh's point of view, he's a natural home born warrior from Dreanor. He wasn't born into a world like Thrall where there was negotiation between different types and alliances of peoples, he was born into a world of clans that fought each other for power and survival. When Garrosh took title of Warchief, The Horde was starving for supplies. It was either invade Ashenvale or let the Orc capital starve. When Garrosh took control of the Undercity, he only did it because Sylvannas was using her powers to resurrect the undead exactly as the Lich King did, he couldn't just walk around and let her continue her bad ways, he had to contain her. And the poisoned blade that killed the leader of the Tauren people, had nothing to do with Garrosh, nor the attack of the druids that provoked Cairne to even challenge him to the duel, it was actually the Twilight Hammer that attacked the druids and provoked Cairne, Garrosh was simply upholding his honor. Also the bombing of Theramore, it was a questionable move from the entire Horde alone, but its not like he dropped the bomb instantly, the Alliance and Garrosh's Horde were fighting for weeks before he decided to drop the bomb, and when Garrosh turned to Vol'jin for assistance in the situation (Because thrall said if he needed any help, go to Vol'jin for advice) Vol'jin insulted him and threatened to kill him. Knowing this, and seeing that Thrall cheated in the duel (You're only suppose to have 1 weapon in Mak'Gora and 1 witness for each person) Thrall used his elemental powers to fight the winning Warchief. After seeing this cinematic from playing the game (I've been playing the series since WC3) I started to dislike Thrall, and started to get extreme goosebumps when he even said to Thrall "You made me what I am". And the fact that Garrosh refused the position of Warchief and Thrall forced it on him, just makes Thrall more of a dick than any other character. With the Invasion of Pandaria, Garrosh did this for the hopes of establishing new supply for the Horde's people. He only became powerhungry when the Old God took control of his body. Shame he had such a terrible death though, but he went out swinging.
Massive cred to Patrick Seitz for his voicing of Garrosh, you can feel everything from the determination to the ire to the sorrow. I really wonder what it was like in the recording booth that day.
@@apfelkuchen4399 wut? he didnt poison his axe that grimmtoten bitch did, he never wanted to kill Cairne even in a Mak'gora the whole thing happened because of cultists anyway
@@SnakeA113 No it’s not. Magic isn’t expressly forbidden unless agreed upon by both fighters beforehand. Also. Thrall and Garrosh had a Mak’gora before the Cataclysm, where Thrall used his shaman magic there too, and no one cared. Garrosh knew what he was getting into.
Hmmm..... This cinematic actually made me feel sorry for Garrosh. I thought i was going to be happy that he was finally dead. But i guess not. You can even hear the pain in his voice as he talks to Thrall.
He's basically as close to being on the verge of tears as any orc can get, even when he's screaming Thralls name at the end, just like, none of this is my fault you dick. It's upsetting
Complicating things is that a shaman's power isn't theirs alone -- they borrow the powers of the Elemental spirits. So when Thrall invoked their power at the end, he was technically calling in reinforcements. My guess is that the only reason the Elements LET him do this was because they also agreed that Garrosh needed to die. But they were still really unhappy about their power being used like this, which is why Thrall loses his powers and the Doomhammer becomes dead weight in Legion. Reminds me a bit of Thor and the occasions on which Mjolnir becomes unresponsive to him due to unworthy actions.
Why would Azeroths elements care about what happened on Draenor? They're not the same group of elements after all. Its far more likely his loss of power is a mental block.
mutegrab666 They probably would care if a Shaman used the powers of other elemental spirits to "cheat" in a duel. Such an act could have been seen as a sign of disrespect and dishonor to all Elements in general.
-Garrosh ponderings: All these Garrosh excusers astound me. Not to say that Garrosh was PURE EVIL (because he absolutely was not), but like most people, he had some glaring character flaws and psychological issues, most important of which were his lack-of-a-father-figure issues. No doubt he was the wrong person in the wrong position at the wrong time, which is certainly sympathetic. But he made choices that would make anyone with an ounce of decency shudder. In truth, he truly was driven to do right by his people, but he alienated all the allies and advisors that were put in place to aid him in that difficult time, and then blamed everyone else for his own mistakes. This fight is just one more example of that, and I am GLAD that Thrall put his foot down instead of bending to the guilt. It's true that Thrall screwed up. But Thrall gave Garrosh a lot of tools and his own trust, and Garrosh (through a combination of awful circumstance and his own errors) threw it all away. I wish Garrosh had gotten a redemption story, but things don't always end the way we'd like them to.
+TJChaos The advisors questioned his abilities after Garrosh essentially said "I don't wanna be warchief", when Cairne challenged Garrosh it was the absolute insult to him, essentially saying "You aren't good enough to be warchief" then when Cairne died from a poison that someone applied to Garrosh's axe everyone turned on Garrosh himself. He had to become extremely strict, people were beginning to doubt him, because of the duel Cairne became something like a Martyr. Then Garrosh was corrupted by the Old Gods because of his volatile emotions, (he still deserves to be held accountable for his many bad actions) leading him down an even worse road. So yes Garrosh did some bad things and should answer for them, but he DEFINITELY wasn't some super villain. Thrall also definitely fucked up, he left to try and raise a child in the midst of wars and instability, which was stupid. Thrall had to leave to fight Death Wing, he didn't have to leave to start a family, Garrosh was doing fine before the MoP story started, that is why Thrall left, but it was a bad decision on his part for simply taking things at face value and feeling like he deserved some peace time or whatever. In the end Garrosh and Thrall both should share equal blame and this Cinematic is amazing at expressing Garrosh's struggles but it still favors Thrall which is irritating.
+TJChaos some could actually argue it was thrall's fault. you miss a large chunk of what's actually happening. thrall saw that garrosh was a strong orc. but he also saw the power hungry in him. he made garrosh war chief in hopes that it would change him. you don't give a power hungry person more power, and hope that it makes him tame. that's not how the world works.
+mutegrab666 Garrosh had a gauntlet in his weapon hand, Thrall had full body armour, used shamanism and had dem swag beads. You ain't allowed beads in da fight.
So....Lets see if im getting this. A green skinned orc and a normal brown skinned orc are fighting in a mak'gora. The untainted brown skinned orc is clearly the better warrior amounts the two and after a struggle comes out on top. It is clear in the end that the untainted orc will win. So the green skinned orc uses the powerful magic they wield to overpower and kill the brown skinned orc who fought fairly and used only their natural skill as a warrior and no magic of their own, not even having their weapon blessed by a shaman. So....If you remove the context here and look at this scene and the one from the movie, is there any difference between thrall cheating and Gul'dan cheating? Ignore ANY of backstory and look at the scenes with no context and as fights on their own with the same rules and what is the difference?
I'm getting pissed off more and more to see these comments and people who invents rules and their own definition of cheating. Here are the rules in a Mak'Gora : THERE IS NO RULE ! Basically a Mak'Gora is a 1v1 in which you can determin the rules before the fight. On Durotan and Gul'Dan Mak'gora, it was said, if I remember well, that it would be a hand-to-hand fight. So Gul'Dan cheated by using demonic magic. In Cairne and Garrosh's Mak'gora it was a warrior fight, without armor and with only 1 regular weapon. From here, you guys thought these are the rules of a Mak'Gora, but fucking NO. In THIS Mak'Gora, no rules were determined, SO THRALL DIDN'T CHEAT. He was ALLOWED to use his magic. Not because "it's shamanisme and not demonic" not because "he's a shaman so he can use his powers to beat a warrior" but because there was no rules, just a 1v1. Btw he has already done a Mak'Gora against Garrosh, he used some magic and none were shocked. In Saurfang and Sylvanas's Mak'Gora no rules were definited either SO SYLVANAS DIDN'T CHEAT ! Rly stop inventing rules and be like "Oh I'm right" whereas nothing was officially confirmed.
Garrosh is not wrong. Thrall dumped the leadership of the horde on his shoulders and left Garrosh to pick up any pieces Thrall had not. Garrosh even said beforehand he thought it was not a good idea for Thrall to make him Warchief but Thrall did anyway. I only partly blame Garrosh for the crimes he has committed. I blame Thrall because Thrall DID send him down his path. The other leaders of the horde when Garrosh came to power did not like or trust Garrosh knew this.
pieces? the horde was fine until garrosh started fucking up, they almost had peace with the alliance, but garrosh just wanted to make orcs the masterace and kill everything else check what he says and does when he's doing his trial in pandaria they gave him the chance to live, to prove that he is worty, and he said that he would kill any undead/human/belf bla bla all races except orcs if he had the chance, and that he regrets nothing
KappaLappa Garrosh when he found out his weapon had been poisoned by MAGATHA not himself he was furious. He had been denied his honorable Mak'Gora. His duel to the death. He was trying to kill Cairn in their duel just as Cairn was trying to kill him.
F2P player: "You never had the strength of a TRUE warrior!" Premium player: "I do not rely on in-game currency, my power is from donate shop" and then 1:40
I still get chills when I see Thrall say "My power is all around you" punctuated by what seems to be his inherited fel blood burning in his eyes intermingling with his mastery of the elements.
Yeah, and then he cheats like the cowardly green human that he is. A disgrace to all orcs, when he sees Drakka in SL, he should mention how he cheated to kill someone he put in power even though everyone told him not to, even the person he was trying to thrust the power onto.
@@ntplusofficial I don't blane Garrosh for that, I blame the writing team for that one who only wanted to give the Alliance fanboys a loot pinata. Try and explain to me how that makes sense after his actions in Stonetalon? It doesn't. So I refuse to accept it and point to it as a character ruining moment. I do not take into consideration Blizzard-induced madness.
Blizzard has an in-house orchestra. All the music in their games is original. I'm not sure if they've released a soundtrack for WoD yet, but you can check their store periodically to see if it's available
This goes hand and hand with an unpopular opinion I have. Thrall is responsible for everything that happened. He had a duty to lead the Horde and he abandoned that duty and left the worst person he possibly could in charge (Garrosh actually tells Thrall this HIMSELF). Garrosh was always a hothead and a warrior and was never fit to lead. Thrall just didn’t want to take the responsibility on himself and chose to push it off on someone else and that someone is Garrosh, and you really feel it in this interaction. The cards are laid bare, Garrosh didn’t want this responsibility he was just stuck with it while Thrall ran off and never checked in. Thrall abandoned him. Then even after watching all of Garrosh’s failings as a leader Thrall’s bum behavior shines through again as he continues to allow Garrosh to lead and never steps in while Garrosh continues to commit atrocities. He watched the Bombing of Theramore, he watched Garrosh start a war with the Alliance, he stood by while Garrosh mistreated the Pandarians, he watched as Garrosh tried to have Voljin killed, and that’s just a short list. Thrall never even steps in until he’s forced too by the whole world coming down on Garrosh and laying Siege to Orgrimmar. Thralls bum ass behavior only persists as instead of taking over leadership of the Horde after the colossal fuck up that was the last guy he left in charge, he chooses TO LEAVE ANOTHER GUY IN CHARGE WHILE HE RUNS OFF AGAIN. Then after the most elaborate shit ever FINALLY this man finishes the job and kills Garrosh.
+The Music Band Can't, it wasn't fel magic that raised the undead, or scourge, it was the dread lords and Ner'zhul's clan, (can't recall what it's called), Gul'dan had nothing to do with the scourge to my knowledge, he was with the legion.
Just want to point out that Thrall actually broke no explicit rules of Mak'Gora by using magic; in fact it has been used on a number of occasions. While there is no stated rule on its usage one way or the other, every time it has been used, the results were deemed "valid."
+Maxwell Dawnbridge And right after Garrosh has given him the killing blow a black arrow pierces his heart, making Vol'jin stay true to his word of finishing him off.
+Maxwell Dawnbridge And right after Garrosh has given him the killing blow a black arrow pierces his heart, making Vol'jin stay true to his word of finishing him off.
Ironic how Garrosh died with such disgrace when his father died a hero. Both performed horrible acts. One was able to fix his mistakes and saved the Horde, the other couldn't be fixed and almost destroyed the Horde.
@Walking Disaster Personally I think it might have been better if Jaina died at Theramore. Would have saved her the awful character assassination she suffered.
And this is an answer to the people who were saying Thrall isn't one of the strongest warriors in Azeroth. Garrosh had serious problems with him even though he is a warrior who specializes in meele combat. Thrall almost defeated him using his only hammer but the fun was over when Thrall stopped playing around and started fighting like a shaman would. He is one of the strongest Orcs in the Warcraft universe and I personally think only Grommash can defeat him.
He didn't almost defeat him, when Garrosh had Thrall above his head he could have easily dropped him onto his knee and killed Thrall by breaking his back but his ego stopped that happening and he threw Thrall away. Garrosh defeated himself.
Thats totally wrong. Despite being bad Garrosh knows the meaning of honor. Thrall challenged him to duel thus saving a player. It's not about his ego but it's about his honor. No tricks, just a normal fight to the death. Do you think Thrall would just stand back and wait for him to finish him off by what you said "breaking his back"? Of course not. They both disarmed themselves. Thrall by provoking Garrosh into throwing a weapon, and Garrosh by doing it the old fashion warrior-style. Believe me, it's not so easy to wrestle an orc and break their necks with their muscular body. Although it brings a question if snaping the neck is a honorable kill(I think not). Thrall is a far better tactician than Garrosh. The Hellscream is hot-headed and shoots first and thinks later. It is experience, wisdom, his strenght and his power that makes him superior to Garrosh. The only way Garrosh stood a chance was to somehow disable Thrall powers just like in Siege of Orgrimmar. I think Thrall is a heavily underestimated character. P.S: If you're saying that Garrosh could've killed Thrall easily when he was on his knees then what do you think Thrall could do if he used his shamanistic powers right from the beginning? I think it was obvious that Thrall gave him a headstart. P.S2: I think that Blizzard wasted a good story material by killing Garrosh now. It would be cool to see Garrosh redemption just like his father.
Huh...now when i rewatched it, noticed how thrall leaned to the left when carrying the doomhammer at the end. Hammer got heavier as the elements left him.
@@eggchin22x78His plans to conduct genocide on all non-orcs, corrupting the Vale of Eternal Blossoms, imposing martial law on his own citizens and even having some of them outright executed merely because he disagreed with what form of magic they used, etc.
I agree with what you're saying, but not to the point of tears. It really hits my feels when Garrosh says "You left me to pick up your pieces". The pure emotion in his voice when he says "you left me" especially, is a good on Blizzards part. His voice conveys emotion so well! This is one of my favorite moments. But my number 1 fave is the Darkspear revolution, where you're talking to ol' Vol'jin in Razor Hill. When he says "Horde be a family. When de whole world try ta put us down, de family come an' pick us back up. We all each other got, see?" It makes my eyes very wet every time I read it. The first time I read it, it actually made me tear up. It just reminds me of my friends and how we're all kinda misfits, and how we take care of each other. God, just typing that Vol'jin quote out made my eyes get all watery. Idk about the Alliance, but playing Horde, and being part of the Horde means much more to me than just a game. It has a deeper meaning to me, that makes me feel part of something bigger, a family. Sometimes we argue, but in the end, we, the Horde, will stick up for each other. We are the Horde. We are family, for ever.
Lorewise, it was stupid for Thrall to give the mantle to Garrosh and it never made sense to me. Cairne Bloodhoof was the obvious choice, but for some reason in the novels Thrall felt it had to be an Orc, and still he felt Saurfang or Eitrigg were too seasoned? Always felt like a forced plot just to get us some old school Alliance vs Horse action, because Thrall had been far too diplomatic and level-headed for that clash to take place.
Lets create an extended metaphor for the situation. If you (Thrall) had to watch a child (Garrosh) and you went out for a dinner (Leaving Horde) and left the child with two extremely good babysitters (Eitrigg and Cairne), and your child killed one babysitter (Cairne) and ruined your house(Azeroth). Is it your fault for leaving the child? Or is it the child's fault for being crazy? It is under this thought I do not sympathise with Garrosh saying that it is Thrall's fault that he became who he is. Page 122-126 of 'The Shattering' by Christie Golden details the conversation when Thrall made Garrosh Warchief. Though Garrosh was not Thrall's first choice of whom to give the title to, he acknowledged that "Garrosh was loved and a fine fighter, but he was also rash and impulsive"(121). He also hoped the temporary challenge would "inspire and guide" Garrosh to become a better leader in the future. Though Garrosh also indicates that he "would rather have a sword in [his] fist that a scroll" he ultimately confesses that "it is [his] true longing to lead the Horde"(126). I've read many of Thrall's adventures in the novels, he is a character to have faith in those who few others do. This time it cost him and Azeroth countless lives. It was a blatant mistake, but he believed that it was the best move at the time. I do believe that Garrosh did choose his own fate. Thrall specifically emphasised the importance of having advisors (Cairne and Eitrigg) for Garrosh to assist him in his choices and counteract in a way his more rash way of approaching challenges. That they can provide wisdom and "other options I did not know I had". Though Thrall should be called out as a significant factor for much of the atrocities that befell Azeroth pre cataclysm, I feel it is unjust for such a lore rich character to be called harsh names. Thrall may have opened a new path for Garrosh, however Garrosh chose how he walked that path. Garrosh is also an extremely interesting character full of potential, faults and strengths. Villains like him are great to follow because though the methods they accomplish their ideals are morally wrong, their intentions are understandable...agreeable even. I would have liked to see a more fitting end to his plotline, one with more closure for both him and Thrall.
Stupid metaphor, it is more like you told your child you are going out to buy cigarettes, as this was never supposed to be a permanent fixture, and then refuse to return, the babysitters you put in place abuse you, one blames you for something you didn't even do and tries to kill you for it, you then fight back and win, not because you were better, but because another child decided to poison your weapon without your knowledge, and the other also berates the child and threatens to kill him (Vol'jin)... .this metaphor is confused. All in all, it is Thralls fault.
![Garrosh Hellscream's Tragic Story: All Cinematics in ORDER - The Last True Warchief [WoW Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ztRdfQ09YEE/mqdefault.jpg)
![Garrosh Hellscream's Tragic Story: All Cinematics in ORDER - The Last True Warchief [WoW Lore]](/img/tr.png)
Well at least Garrosh died like a warrior.
Helpless in a CC.
+Stoopid Pursun
Full credit for that joke.
+Stoopid Pursun lol :DD i can´t stop laughing
lel
ROFL
Stoopid Pursun DAMN IT I main a warrior and even I laughed at that
The way Garrosh's voice kind of cracks when he yells "You left me!" honestly makes it sound like he was genuinely broken by Thrall leaving when he did. Like he needed Thrall to guide him and he wasn't there when he needed him most. He did what he thought was best for the Horde, but needed his mentor then more than ever before.
He is uncle to him :D
While Thrall has made a mistake of making him warchief, Garrosh made his crimes with his own hand and he had to pay for them. Garrosh's death is well deserved.
Cause Thrall was too busy trying to be farmer orc instead of green jesus
@@onizgr77 understandable as Thrall was his father’s best friend...
@@jordantakahiro5481 but garrosh is older than him 😂😂😂
Garrosh: You never had the Strength of a true warrior!
Thrall: You’re right. I stacked Agility.
Garrosh: If you are ench, then stack agi, traitor!
@@chakravartin3356 What? No. Stack HASTE.
You mean agility. Thrall was an enhancement shaman. Then he switched to ele.
mak´gora = no spells ,thrall cheating ... with this blizz destry two characters ...
@@fireofCaraxes XD
Imagine how hilarious it would be if right before Thrall is about to kill Garrosh, Taran Zhu shows up from nowhere and says "Let him stand trial in pandaria lol"
+TheSanityX yep that would be really funny XD
+TheSanityX I fucking lol'd
+TheSanityX hahahaha I would love to see Thrall face after Taran Zhu would say that!
+TheSanityX holy shit im dying LOL you just made my day
Well technically he couldn't be tried again because in the novel War Crimes, garrosh was declared innocent by the celestials, who were the jury, and in the American court system, you cannot try someone for the same charges if they have already had a trial.
I love the emotion and tone in Garroshs voice when he was telling Thrall that he left him to pick up the pieces... Kinda made me feel sad :(
This is all a very sad story. Not very well told in game. But over all.
The voice crack in that line really sells it lol
especially when considering the fact that thrall was almost garrosh's father figure
It was of betrayal. Poor Garrosh felt that the orc who he considered a father that Grom never was, has became a traitor in his eyes.
While Garrosh was inadvertently put into an impossible position given the circumstances, Theramore was unforgivable.
"You chose your own destiny." ... Ugh he literally told you he didn't want to be warchief because he wouldn't be good at it and you forced it on him.
@UwU Boi nope, sylvanas gladly accepted her new position
@Yalvinir actually Groms son becomes a light forged aka a traitor
In multiple time lines it's suggested that Garrosh was the best Warchief the Horde ever saw. Garrosh was actually an exceptionally good leader for the Horde in Cataclysm.
Garrosh chose genocide and dealing with otherworldly powers in pursuit of power. He could have been great, but he chose to walk a path of evil; it was his choices that lead to his death.
Garrosh was responsible for his own actions. True, Thrall named him Warchief, but that’s it. Nobody made Garrosh become a tyrant and genocidal maniac but himself (and the uninspired, lackluster writers at Blizzard).
@Yalvinir Grom would have done the same.
Garrosh is not entirely wrong here. He even told Thrall at the time he was a bad choice.for Warchief And Thrall chose him anyway.
+Xavier Vega He could've simply refused. Perhaps Thrall had faith in his underling.
+Domi Jordan He wasn't a good guy to begin with why would he refuse? lmao. Its like giving a hungry dog food and expecting him not to eat it.
+Xavier Vega I guess he thought Garrosh respected him more, and respected the Horde that he had created along with it's alliances with the other races and peace (sometimes...) with the Alliance, but Garrosh just said screw it and just became a warmongering tyrant. He chose Garrosh because most of the orcs liked him as the hero son of Hellscream, and it was to keep the Horde happy while he was away, guess he didn't count on Garrosh killing Cairne and treating the other races of the Horde like dirt.
+Xavier Vega Well Garrosh had daddy issues and self-confidence problems so I guess Thrall just took it as one subtle sign of it. He was obviously wrong but as mentioned above, if he truly didn't want it he could've refused. And still not a excuse to all his wrong doing.
Well Garrosh was the one to change it to a battle to the death.
To hopefully get out of having to do it none-the-less but still.
1:07 "YOU LEFT ME" Anyone else sense a bit of sorrow in the way Garrosh says that?
1:13 "YOU. FAILED. ME!" Alright that's definitely yelled with grief and dissapointment hidden underneath all that rage.
That's the sad part - He wanted help and he knew that Thrall knew he needed help. He's upset and he's angry...But he's a proud warrior who did all he knew how to: Fight.
Kinda like Anakin Skywalker I guess
+Emi Mita Arthas is like Anakin. Garrosh is the one who never wanted any of this to happen, but it was forced on him.
jaharned1 I always considered Arthas like Anakin! Glad to hear i'm not the only one.
NOPE! Because Garrosh fucking wanted Warchief anyways at the beginning of WotLK HE challenges Thrall to Mak'gora, it;s interrupted when the scourge invasion begins.
We could've avoided two whole expansions if Thrall would have picked Cairne instead
+Jay Takahashi or vol jin but yeah
Nah, Vol'jin grew into his position as a leader, whereas Cairne was already there when Thrall was out the door.
Cairne is the reason all of this shit happened. I'm glad that gullible cunt died.
Ghaltouni no it was thrall falut
It was in no means Cairne's fault, Thrall is to blame.
I never liked Garrosh but when he said "You.... failed me!!" he sounds like a son that always tryed to impres his father.
That's exactly why I always hated him, his daddy issues.
mutegrab666 Yeah, daddy issues/mommy issues just piss me off to no end, especially villains
Garrosh were a "True Orc" tho. He didnt mean to kill cairne bloodhoof (Baine is the son right? or is it the other way around?) But a Grimtotem Tauren poisened his axe, tho she said she would "Enchant it". in Order to take over Thunder bluff. When Garrosh noticed the poison on his axe, he did not help her to take Thunder bluff and she failed.
Sorry for making this comment like a wall of text, but Garrosh essentially tried to make The Horde stronger, which mau seem unfair to certain races. But in the end Thrall made him the Warchief, which kinda shows Thralls poor skills to judge personalities ^^
it was thrall that came to outland and showed grom hellscreams last battle with mannoroth to garrosh. before that garrosh was a emo bitch with no will to fight. that is what he is talking about. thrall was trying to motivate him to fight and defend his people, garrosh just didnt know how to stop. garrosh was a run away freight train and thrall pulled the lever.
Mattias Garcés Garrosh definitely DID mean to kill Cairne (yes, you got them the right way round), he just felt cheated because he found out he didn't get to do it all himself. The poison didn't kill Cairne, the axe in his skull, swung by Garrosh with homicide aforethought, did. The poison just rendered him unable to defend himself. It could possibly have been fatal if given time, but Magatha wouldn't have wanted to chance on her treachery being revealed by Cairne dying without being wounded, so most likely would just have been disabling.
I love it when Garrosh says to Thrall, "You failed ME!".
Very emotional scene.
When Garrosh yells:
YOU LEFT ME
dude... he almost breaks it
he really did fail garrosh.he went through his whole life not knowing his father. and just when he needed his new father figure the most. that one also left him.
obviously thralls voiced by one of the grand daddy's but after wc3 thrall kinda dips huge in how he does things politically.
Garrosh had a point.
Thrall DID leave him to pick up the pieces and even did so after Garrosh himself TOLD him he was a bad choice for the position.
Yeah but that is no reason to go genocidal
"You never had the strength of a true warrior"
"Garrosh, I'm a _shaman,_ not a warrior."
I freaking LOVE this cutscene. You expect it to be this awesome "Look at thrall deal the justice! Finally! Good guys win! Party!" but it's not. The music and atmosphere are very somber, the emotion in Garrosh's voice just shows how misunderstood of a character he is, even to those unfamiliar with the deeper aspects of his character. It's not even a happy thing when Garrosh dies, it goes back to the calm and sad piano tunes that really make you think. Like thrall or not, you can't argue that this cutscene was anything short of perfect.
Several expansions later:
"You WILL submit!"
"I SUBMIT TO NO ONE! NOT TO YOU! NOT THE JAILER! AND NOT TO THAT COWARD THRALL!
FOR THE HORDE!".
GadDAMN if Garrosh hasn't become one of my favorite characters.
Meanwhile, room temperature IQ Sylvanas changing sides like faction xfers are free.
@@vantao9408 depending what measures you use she can be big or small brain.
It's shitty story telling. It's DBZ tier, and I love DBZ, and played since Warcraft 2. But come on...
I'm sorry garrosh should have been left to be tortured for eternity
He is the very last pieces of Warcraft that i know. A little bit of over masculine (yeah i know it's wrong to have this trait nowadays). But that's how i remember them stories. Now it's all sing and dance, even the most corrupted war criminal feminist is redeemable by shooting 1 arrow to the big boss, regardless of burning the aussies forest and destroying yugoslavia
*WARCRAFT MOVIE SPOILER*
There was this scene in the movie where Durotan wanted to show people Gul'dan was not an orc of honor so he challenged him to Mak'gora and ultimately Gul'dan was forced to use his magic to defeat him. The laws of Mak'gora forbid this however and people started calling him a cheater and said they would stop following him... it was all meant to show how evil and honorless Gul'dan was but.. to be honest, it's not that different from what Thrall did here.
yup. sadly
Though he indeed cheated, Gul'dan was pwning Durotan. He wasn't really forced to use his magic, he just just didn't care anymore.
+Konstantinos Foutzopoulos true, guldan has more honor than thrall lmao
Honestly, why does it matter that Thrall cheated? That's like someone challenging Hitler to a duel with swords and complaining when the challenger shoots Hitler with a pistol.
Boneblastable still dishonorable..
And this is why i suspect that Thrall lost his touch with the elements and gave up Doomhammer, because he used the elements in a Mak'gora, a sacred duel where warrior faces warrior, the only shamanistic powers allowed in a Mak'gora are blessings before the fight itself... So yeah, in basic terms... Thrall cheated, and therefor the elements have abandoned him, he broke the rules of Mak'gora and ruined his honor.
in other words, the elements punished thrall for having the will of a true cheater
Eddie 'JaggSauce' Gluskin The elements still value the traditions of the orcs considering the orcs tended to them for years, and orcish honor is derived from the elements, their entire culture revolves around their ancestors and the elements, of course if the elements see that an orc is no longer honorable they might not see them worthy anymore... Thrall let his emotions take the better of him and he was punished for it, he used the elements in dishonorable combat and cheated, just like how they refused Gul'dan because of Gul'dan's intentions and thirst for power, they are tightly bound through emotions and will
it wasnt mak'gora tho
Slick Yes it was... Thrall challenged him to Mak'gorah before the cinematic.
Greywall Gaming get around it
1:03 Garrosh sounds like a genuinely hurt and heartbroken child
I miss him.
Thrall was something of a role-model for him, as he was the one to tell him the tales of Grommash. Thrall making those bad decisions really influenced Garrosh. He felt his "father" failed him.
I hope we get to see him again in the Shadowlands
Which is weird because hes almost twenty years older than thrall
@@Hyaskus Not 20, more like 5-10, but yeah. Garrosh is older than Thrall, yet Thrall was still Garrosh's mentor of sorts.
You know what would have made this cinematic better, or at least somewhat less controversial? If, at the end, when Garrosh is clenched in the fist, he says "YOU MADE ME WHAT I AM!"
And thrall says, "I know."
He admits it. He admits that he should have chosen a better warchief, that it was, in a way, his fault Garrosh ended up this way.
To make things even better, they could have a tear coming down Thrall''s cheek, or have him follow up with an "I'm sorry." just before he hits him with the bolt of lightning.
And also, didn't you people listen to thrall when he says "You chose your own destiny"? He doesn't sound sure of himself. He sounds like he's reassuring himself. Thrall is a coward - afraid to admit his mistakes - but at the very least, on some level, i think he knows what he did is wrong.
You trying to make people cry!?
***** Thing is, Thrall shouldn't admit that he choose wrong because he didn't. He layed down the groundwork for Garrosh to follow, he left him his advisers from the other Horde races and it was Garrosh who choose not to listen to them. During that time, the Horde, Orcs specifically, needed a hero and Saurfang, the one who Thrall WOULD have chosen, was devastated after the death of his son [and he died twice since we kill him again after he was reborn as a Death Knight].
The Orcs needed a hero, what better hero than the son of Grommash Hellscream himself? Someone who also fought in Northrend?
Thrall didn't make him what he was, Thrall's only mistake was not staying at his side to advice him further [of course, the Cataclysm happened so Thrall COULD NOT stay at his side]. Like he says, Garrosh choose his own destiny by not following what the Horde represented, by not listening to his advisers and friends.
+Matt D
Yes Thrall is a base-cowards hiding behind self-made excuses and Garrosh had every single reason to act like that. Garrosh gave Thrall PERFECT REASONS to counter and Thrall failed at every attempt because he was guilty.
Baris Kaya Lol, perfect reasons? Garrosh didn't say a single thing that proves Thrall was to blame. Did you not even read my comment above yours?
+AzureRoxe I'd like to point out that after Cairne mistakenly accused Garrosh of sending the Orcs to kill the druids, and he had to kill Cairne in the duel, everyone hated him. No one wanted to help Garrosh at that point.
To be fair, that's what started Garrosh's downfall, Cairne thinking Garrosh sent those Orcs, when he didn't. The entire thing was a misunderstanding, and Cairne, being the old Tauren he was, should not have thought it wise to challenge an Orc Warrior in his prime. When you look at it, everything that happened during Cata and part of MoP was Cairne's fault.
Probably the best thing about this(Though the resolution that Garrosh chose his own destiny is wrong), is that Garrosh is killed literally on the same exact spot where in Outland Thrall met him. They fight at the place where Garadar would later be built. This was the closing of the loop and a pretty damn awesome way of literally coming full circle. "Ends where it begins."
garrosh choiced by himself to commit warcrimes, he choosed his destiny
@@filb1324 What warcrimes? Theramore? Theramore was a legitimate military target, moreso then Taurajo. Garrosh did not want to be Warchief, even told Thrall that he was not up for it and all advisors told Thrall that it was a bad idea as well, Thrall ignored all of it and left Garrosh with a mess to pick up and then, Thrall barely having left the city, Vol'jin not only disrespects him, but also threatens to murder him. Cairne accusing him of shit he didn't do and then being forced to win a Mak'gora through a poisoned weapon that he knew nothing about.
Thrall put him on this path. Thrall is to blame.
@@imaran1303
Thrall isn't to blame on my point of view. garrosh choosed to do what he did as a warchief
theramor wasn't a legit target, not if you use the mana bomb to wape out most of the city inhabitants. This includes civilians, children, who died because of garrosh's choices. Not Thrall's
@@filb1324 It was more valid then Taurajo, that is for sure.
And he didn't want to be Warchief to begin with, he told Thrall flat out that he was a Warrior, not a politician. So he tried to fix the problems as a Warrior would.
My people are starving? There are fertile grounds just around the corner, why do we starve? Because the Elves are selfish pricks? Nah!
Taurajo was butchered? Alright, send in troops to deal with it, get the Alliance off of the Gate to Mulgore cause Baine is being a useless cunt and shit! Theramore is fueling the war in the Barrens? Alright, I have to take that port off the map to keep the Alliance from continuing the fight.
And don't get me started on MoP, the Alliance did just as many fucked up things, need I remind you of the slaughter of Orcish sailors that had surrendered and simply not tried to drown? Yeah, and you blame Garrosh for calling Baine and Vol'jin out for the Alliance bootlickers that they are.
'Oh! But he tried to assassinate Vol'jin!' Hard to feel sympathy for a guy who disrespected the guy from day one and even threatened to murder him the same day he was made Warchief, against his fucking will.
The people around him pushed him on that path, had Vol'jin and Cairne actually done what they were supposed to, guide him... instruct him.... then perhaps this shit wouldn't have happened.
@@imaran1303
Nothing still excuse Garrosh's actions. He commited warcrimes by bombing theramore. Nothing can change that fact for me. call me blind or whatever you want, i know my reasonnment is based on solid logic. I may just don't have the same criteria you have to judge of someone
the thing to do from the start is to make peace with the alliance. to bounce on the subjetcts, it seems by how you phrased it that you are making the complete alliance responsible for the orcish sailors massacrer, when only a certain number of people were involved in this event, not the entire alliance
warcrimes shall not be taken unseriousely, may they came from the hand of garrosh, jaina, or any of thoses fictional characters
I *understand* that garrosh basically did what he was train to do and that he has his reasons, but i do not excuse the massacrers and atrocities he commited. I do not excuse ether the camps made to enslave the orcs after the first war. I don't excuse the slaughter of the bloodelve in dalaran orchestred by jaina
garroah was an adult when he was name warchief. Thrall maybe should have train him to be warchief before leaving, but garrosh wasn't an influencable kid with when he was made warchief. garrosh lacked the empathy to completly discern what is right from what is wrong. his true error is to never have listen to anyone who tried to stop him, and never putted himself in question ether. Any goodhearted persson should have the capacity to put themself in question, and to at least try to repent themself when they did something horrible like garrosh did. garrosh was lacking this will to open himself to other. And Thrall isn't responsible for that
"Honor, young hero. No matter how dire the battle, never forsake it."
Thrall gives away Doomhammer in Legion because he says something like "it hasn't been responding to him anymore since he killed Garrosh."
Even Thrall knows he fucked up and cheated. Even Thrall knows he sullied his honor. You can all stop defending him now. He's nowhere near perfect. He's no "green Jesus." He made some horrible decisions since he left the horde.
I don't fully blame him, because he saved the world, and he seriously needed some time to have his own life. Warchief was sort of thrust upon him and was his job/responsibility for too long. He wasn't able to focus on obtaining a wife, family, or anything normal. After leaving the horde behind he was able to do all that, plus saving Azeroth with his choices to further his shamanism. He REALLY fucked up with the whole Garrosh thing though. In many many ways.
This. Thrall isn't perfect. Thrall makes mistakes. Thank you.
I have to agree with all of that. If i were him it would seem to me that trying to have my own life just causes strife in the world around me. He left to get his own family, do his own thing, and in return the horde was twisted and split apart due to his thrusting power upon garrosh. He probably feels that everything is his fault in some way & that he should have listened to everyone else and chosen a diff leader.
I stopped liking him after this video. Garrosh is right. Not playing WoW but i follow the lore.
Was it a mistake for Thrall to put Garrosh in charge? Yea probably, but in the end it wasn't Thrall who decided to mana bomb Theramore, it was Garrosh. He was a grown adult capable of making his own choices, he could have very well followed green jesus' example, but he got a huge boner from hearing stories about how heroic and awesome his dad's death was and so tried and failed to live up to that. He may have had pressure on him, but most of it came from himself, not Thrall.
HE would rather sully his honor than allow a monster like Garrosh to ever harm anyone of his friends, to be "Honest " (Pun intended)" His deeds were the honest one as he made sure no one would die at his hand again and FYI why didn't thrall rek him i mean argument stands thrall's entire youth with him trained to be a killing machine, not only that but all his other heroic acts.
"Leaked Legion footage - Destroying Arms Warrior with Elemental Shaman, after Blizzard removed every Warrior ability besides _Self Disarm_ "
only time you'll see an ele shammy beat an arms war
Ryan Flood arms wars are broken ... as much as ele shammys ... that's like nerfed vs. nerfed
+Ryan Flood thrall is obviously enh
MoragTong i would argue he is more ele then enhance
+Ryan Flood Enhancement shamans get thrall's weapon in the next expansion, plus thrall uses his hammer a LOT during combat so he's definitely enhancement.
elemental and resto both get artifact doom hamers as well.. the differentiation is in the artifact shield they get
Garrosh was an orc of honor who would never kill helpless innocents. Until Blizzard's writers grew bored and wrote him differently. Hell, Garrosh switched between good and evil so many times, it just all depended on what quests you were doing.
But at least Thrall remained consistent. Always running from responsibility, taking credit for other people's work, always asking others to do the work for him, and blaming others for his own failures.
+CriticalThinking Sounds about right
+redwane hamida I disagree, I think Garrosh's development was awful. You have to dig deep into his lore to even begin to understand him.
I mean he starts off as a whiney baby worried about repeating his fathers mistakes (lul). Thrall takes him in and immediately Garrosh is a super xenophobe. You can read that he has a problem seeing such potential in the greatest orc city he's ever seen that has to give resources to trolls and undead. And the fact that humans and night elves push them around, and they live in a desert, when Ashenvale is right next to them.
Garrosh's orc mind seems to only process that orcs take what they need, screw diplomacy. In WoTLK he was equal to Varian in terms of animosity towards the enemy faction. The difference is Varian has every reason to hate the Horde, they killed his father, razed his city to the ground, and then killed his mentor. Putting all that aside he still agreed to ally with them only for it to lead to the death of his men and best friend Bolvar. Garrosh has no such trauma.
The best way to explain Garrosh by Cata is that he's an orc with daddy issues. Something pushed him over the deep end in MoP, desperation, the Sha, daddy issues, who knows. But from what I heard one of the Horde characters was to go bad and they tested the waters for it in Cata. It was either Sylvanas or Garrosh, and if it was Sylvanas people would have rioted. No one liked Garrosh anyway.
It's not until this cinematic that I actually liked Garrosh. Thrall leaving him as Warchief (after only being in the Horde for 2 freakin years, as opposed to obvious choices like Saurfang or Cairne) then Thrall bailing on him like "Here bro good luck!" Must have really taken a toll on him. Thrall was like a brother to him and was the one to pull him out of the darkness.
energyzero77 Yeah I've read that and he still doesn't make sense to me.
I think Garrosh is a shame to his father's legacy. I don't know much about Grom pre-WC3 where he is supposed to be a shell of himself and pretty damn old, but he didn't seem like an unreasonable moron. Just easily convinced or deceived.
He screwed his people over by drinking the Blood of Mannoroth, he didn't know any better, had he and the other chiefs knew they were drinking the blood of a 50ft Interdimensional Space Demon bent on Multiverse destruction I'm pretty sure he would have decided against it....
He did it again in WC3 but it was either that or get torn to shreds by Cenarius.
Garrosh was manipulated by an old god or not? Most of everything is either manipulation by old gods or by the burning legion.
Just how Nefarian was an honorable dragon that wanted to keep the world safe until he was manipulated by the old gods into betraying the other dragons and becoming deathwing.
Garrosh's turn to evil in MoP was largely our fault. Blizzard admitted they went too far with Garrosh, but the idea came from us because we couldn't handle anyone but Thrall as Warchief.
Garrosh would be perfect in the Kromog fight, he just needs to increase his dps and he'll be doing mythic in no time.
BigMcK I chuckled at that, them hands lol....
+seventhsinn what the fuck
Thrall HAD to leave because of Deathwing (yeah, Azeroth would be in ruin if he didn't), it's not like he had a choice and said "Fuck this I'm out, going to Hawaii to chill. Hey Garrosh, you're Warchief now, deal with it". And he left him with the most experienced/best advisers of the Horde. Garrosh just didn't want to listen to them, so yes, Thrall did the best he could but Garrosh was too immature and power thirsted that he fucked it all up.
Finally someone notices
However Garrosh refused His proposal, but he was so sure that Garrosh could be Warcief, that even if Garrosh denied the Title, he would still dump the mantle of Warchief on his shoulders.
Garrosh was so afraid of being an Honorless and Shameful Orc that he became mad with the power of a Warchief.
Yukine Chris Thrall gave him some of the best advisors in all of Azeroth. It's true that Garrosh became mad with all his new power. But Garrosh proved in the past that he is a capable leader, which is why Thrall entrusted the title of Warchief to him. And Thrall didn't just go on vacation. He fought Deathwing.
Gaspard Savoureux Sorry, but I must disagree. Thrall could have elected Cairne as Warchief or even one of his own advisers. But, no. Thrall had said in the book that the horde was pretty much racist and would only obey an orc, so he picked the most famous and hot headed orc because Saurfang was dead.
Eduardo Uchoa Saurfang is still alive.
I love it how each time Gorehowl and Doomhammer clash thunder strikes in the background. Even the elements knew how this fight would end!
Lost respect for Thrall. This is literally the same as challenging someone to the duel on swords, but when you start losing, take out the gun and shoot your opponent in the face.
It's more like pitting a sword master vs an adept, Thrall is not a warrior he is a shaman denying him magic is crippling his ability to fight.
The Littlest Giant Yea, now that I actually looked up what a Mak'gora was you're right. But then again history is written by the victors so... you know "All's fair in love and war".
thrall is a shaman what were you expecting? That he would combat a warrior without using skill?
thrall is a shaman what were you expecting? That he would combat a warrior without using skill?
+Tiago Moura
Thrall was trained since he was a baby (by Blackmoore) to be a warrior. He only started learning shamanism later in his life. So technically, he's kind of both classes. He's still a very skilled warrior, even though he's become one of the planet's greatest shaman, and according to the mak'gora rules, he basically cheated..
Always get a little teary when you hear Garrosh's emotions sort of take over when he's beating on Thrall.
I like the little detail when nearly everytime Doomhammer and Gorehowl collide, lightning appears in the sky
This is why I love Blizzard's storywriting. Despite the first glance, it really shows that there is no true 'good and evil'. All the main expac villains we've fought so far have suffered as much as the heroes have, and alot of their suffering was borne of the heroes' actions as well, even Deathwing if you read up on his lore.
Despite Thrall denying what Garrosh said about creating what Garrosh is, it is certainly true. everything from putting a young, naive, and inexperienced orc who was prideful of his father's legacy, into a seat of immense pressure and political power, and simply leaving without teaching him anything after filling him with stories of how glorious the Horde was, to coming back and telling him how wrong he's been and throwing him behind bars, even up to what was said in this cinematic, I think Thrall was truly mistaken.
If you ever read one of the World of Warcraft books like Paragons for example, you'd know that Garrosh looked up to Thrall like a hero and a rolemodel. Thrall is the one who told him stories of how glorious the Horde was and is while they were in Nagrand, and Thrall is the one who set even bigger shoes for Garrosh to fill than his father's and when there were so many problems with the world, political and otherwise, Thrall simply left Garrosh at the throne to go chase his little 'Go'el dreams'. That's just like driving out onto the freeway, putting your child in the driver's seat and walking away from the car. Thrall's biggest mistake was that he didn't give Garrosh proper guidance, and that's what I think truly made him into a villain. with all this in mind, it makes the cutscene _so_ much more _powerful_, especially when Garrosh's voice gets shaky and distraught at what Thrall is saying.
People may bash WoW's storytelling, but I think this is why WoW has some of the best storytelling - it throws away foolish, cartoonish 'yin and yang' concepts of conflict and tells something alot more realistic, and sometimes dark.
This I can agree with, it's way too often than alot of recent/modern fiction tends to be all yin-yang like. It kind limits the creative writing process if everyone is only good or evil when in-fact that's not how most things work. Game of Throne is like this and most of the pre-07 era... shows that there are bad people and then less bad people.
Well, this ended much different than I expected...
When I saw the shit that Garrosh did, I was excited as hell to be able to kill him in SoO, but then I found out that we don't kill him and he escapes. Since then, I was anticipating this moment, riled up to finally kill the Warchief of the Horde...
...but after watching this cutscene, I want Garrosh back. Sure, Garrosh was fucked up and did the crimes himself, but Thrall DID leave Garrosh, an inexperienced political leader, in charge of an entire faction, filled with many different races. If that's not the stupidest idea I've ever heard, then I don't know what is. The thing that makes me feel sorry for Garrosh is the remorse and sadness that I can hear in his voice, mainly at 1:06. It gives me the feeling that he was very scared when it came to leading the Horde; he was terrified that he would fail the Horde and make a mockery of himself. This could be why he went very aggressive; to show that anyone who would dare mock him would be punished. The majority of what Garrosh was saying was very true, at least from my understanding, and now that I like his character and would love to serve him if I was Horde, its too late.
This cutscene was amazing, but deep inside, I hope that Garrosh somehow survived that. It's very unlikely, especially since that massive bolt of lightning hit him, but we technically do not see him die, we just see his arm. He could be unconscious for all we know. But, again, it is highly unlikely.
I never though I would say this, but...
R.I.P Garrosh Hellscream.
Unfortunately after the cutscene you can find his corpse in a stone fist on the same hill that Garadar was built on. He's definitely dead.
*****
You're quite right. remember, no one really dies in the Warcraft universe.
Untrue. If you were around during the transition from Wrath to Cataclysm, Garrosh voiced these very same concerns and Thrall told him outright that he had the best advisors the Horde had to offer - Vol'jin, Saurfang, Cairne, Eitrigg, and more - at his disposal. Thrall himself was completely under qualified to lead the Horde himself, but he surrounded himself with people like Drek'Thar, Doomhammer, Hellscream, and others for advice and guidance, and he started with even less than Garrosh was given; he offered the same path to Garrosh, and well...you can see how that turned out.
The thing is, that part at 1:06? All it shows is that Garrosh is still the weak and pathetic orc he was back in TBC. It explains so much about why he reacted to everything with violence and threats: he's putting on a brave face, but he doesn't have the unbreakable will that Thrall has. Yeah, Thrall made a horrible decision putting Garrosh in charge, but he was hoping that the son of Hellscream would rise to the occasion like he did, not try to harness the power of a dead Old God as a weapon.
There is hypothesis that Garrosh can be revived as death knight like Teron by Gul'dan
Pffft. Unlikely? I dont think so. If the story department is willing to bring back illidan, im sure they would bring him back if he still served a purpose in the story.
The raw emotion showed by Garrosh here was the best part of it. Big kudos to that voice actor. In a lot of ways, Thrall did set him up for failure... he wasn't a good choice for the job, Garrosh himself said he'd rather be a general than Warchief. Thrall then left and went off to save the world. Now, Garrosh DID have mentors in Thrall's stead... Eitrigg, Cairne, Saurfang... but he paid them little to no heed. That's where he chose his own destiny. He wrote his own handbook for strengthening the Horde instead of seeing what it already was, and listening to those who helped get it that far.
Tbf, he didn’t get help, Vol’jin outright said he would one day murder Garrosh, Cairne challenged Garrosh to Mak’Gorah and Sylvanas was out there doing genuine evil shit.
The sad thing is we saw flickers of the Warchief he could be in Stonetalon Mountains and the invasion of the twilight highlands. I’d have loved a story where Garrosh truly struggles to lead but is mentored by Saurfang and it looks like he is on the right path, but then Garrosh goes off the deep end after Saurfang is killed, maybe by a Twilight Hammer assassin posing as an Alliance soldier
Thrall, you have no honor.
Not only did you use external forces to win a Mak'gora.
But you, in your arrogance, claimed that the elements was "your power" have you forgotten what it means to be a shaman?
A shaman asks for the elements help, they respond to those they deem worthy and wise by borrowing a fraction of their power.
The power which he possesses, and has control of. Not saying its "his" power exactly, just the power available to him
that was not mak'gora
@tyronmakeka mak'gora is a dueling fist fight to display physical dominance in the clan that was a mutual battlew
+Ronster monster fitness garrosh challenged thrall to mak'gora though
+Ronster monster fitness and also in mak'gora you are aloud go use a single weapon but no armor... thrall broke both those rules
Garish will forever be one of my favorite characters in WoW
ah yes garish hellscream
@@dabillya6845 Hillscrim
@@2beviral ah yes typo my bad good sir
Garish Yellscream is my favourite man in the game
Thrall cheated!
+Fullas Games to be fair this is a duel with a weaponsthe rule fight to the death with all you got so no cheatingif anything he cheat if he didn't use his powers since in fight to the death you meant to use your gretest weapon which for our green friend means his magic
+Fullas Games Good to see you fullas. I've subscribed
+ryan bell Thrall had his armor- that's why he cheated :)
+ryan bell First of all, Thrall had more armor than allowed, He used more than 1 "Weapon", And he had no witness, He also disregarded what the Celestials said.
Blade Strikes Not when Varian Wrynn stopped thrall, Just sayin'.
*THRALL CHEATS!*
You cheat Gul'd...ops I mean Thrall!
This wasnt even a Mak'gora
***** No, it was. Thrall even said so.
Garrosh cheated too, he had a gauntlet, and a gauntlet is armor.
You're only disallowed body armor
i love how thrall tries to hide behind his green jesus armor saying he chose his own path, if garrosh had chosen his own path he'd probably be a general or something right about and not have to deal with all the crazy politics of a dieing world that thrall had pretty much forced him into
1:02 Hard to say if Garrosh is talking to Thrall.....or the writers.
Fuckin actually laughed out loud and spit out my coffee.
You know you made two great characters in an amazing fantasy setting when the love and hate that the fans have for them is equally distributed.
It's like they each fought their inner demons when it came to the essence of this fight.
Shame Blizzard forgot their own rules of the Mok'gora. Thrall pretty much cheated.
Dat Felryn I think that thrall actually cheated simply because Garrosh had to die.
Dat Felryn Come again? Shamans, mages, etc historically have been allowed to use their powers in Mok'gora. Part of the way it works is that those challenging each other get to make their own rules. This was just a fight to the death.
Dat Felryn Cuse Garrosh has an axe. Why would anyone fight at such a huge disadvantage?
jpz719 Then why did Thrall use the elements? I don't think you really understand the concept of Mok'gora.
Mok'gora only allows 1 weapon and doesn't allow armour.
Thrall used 2 weapons: His Doomhammer and the elements.
Thrall used his full Doomhammer armour.
Garrosh used one weapon: His Gorehowl.
Garrosh used a belt which can be argued to be armour.
Dat Felryn Thrall knew Garrosh needed to be put down. It wasn't a matter of cheating, it was a matter of the fate of Azeroth. Had Garrosh not been put down by Thrall, he would have continued on his path and basically destroy everything. This wasn't a regular Mok'gora challenge it was a challenge of fate.
Funny how Garrosh did everything for the Horde (Storyline up to the MoP), then they made him a racist in his own faction (in MoP) and everyone calls him Bad, but yet.... Sylvanas has shown she doesn't care for the Horde (all other races) only the Forsaken and finally admits she didn't care for the horde and everyone still thinks shes is Right.
I still think Garrosh was the best thing for the Horde, he was made to be like a younger Grom Hellscream, but people just couldn't get over Lazy Green Jesus. Garrosh has more Honor in him than the whole Horde Faction leaders put together (well until they decided to make him a Villian), and even after that, he still had more than most of the Horde Faction leaders. He would of fought to the end in Legion like Varian, but we have weak leaders who got their ass kicked by the Legion and crawled like cowards.
Eh Garrosh was still pretty terrible in cata, albeit more so in the books.
Thrall lacked ambition while Garrosh lacked wisdom. Both could be great leaders if they worked together.
@@Jaricko Stonetalin Garrosh was pretty awesome.
@@khyun125-o6j lacked ambition? He failed in warcraft 3?
The mighty Thrall defeated Garrosh. But even him was unable to defeat the baldness.
Cinguangomatic I think he shaved himself for religious things... STILL I LOL'D
LOOOOL
Even Asmongold is fighting baldness but he's loosing
Are you sure of it now :P? ahahahahahahaha yes he can beat everything :O
Cinguangomatic: makes a funny comment
Save heaven cinematic years later : I'm about to destroy this man's howl carrier
"I do not rely on Strength alone Garrosh... I cheat in Mak'Goras"
He didn't. This whole "no magic in a Mak'Gora" thing is a movie-only thing.
@darthvader1166 You're allowed pants, bracers and ONE weapon. Thrall had full body armor and used at least two weapons (doomhammer and elemental magic) you could theoretically argue each element is its own weapon in which case he used more than one weapon.
No matter which way you cut it Thrall is a dirty cheater.
@@GylleneGott The whole thing about pants bracers and one weapon is not a universal rule. It's the "old ways", but those are not strictly adhered to since many years.
The only consistent rules shown in every Mak'gora were:
1) A weapon may not be picked up again once dropped
2) Fight is until death or, rarely, submission.
All other rules are custom rules that were agreed upon by both contestants beforehand.
Cope 😂
1:47 Why are they fighting on the Windows XP desktop?
at 1:15 i thought he was gonna break Thrall's back
Ze Master Baiter
totally should have tried to do the back breaker, don't know how weel it would have worked though considering that Thrall had armor on under his robe
blackvial oh i didnt know that.
Ze Master Baiter i thought he was gonna throw him on the hammer impaling the wood
Ze Master Baiter I thought he was going to throe him on the handle of his mace and impale...
Schizhophreny Anny yep thats what i thought too
WTF! Gorehowl dropped and he didnt loot it!?!?
Because he is Thrall, the fucking son of Durotan.
It's just the boss' corpse. Gorehowl didn't actually dropped since it has only a 0.01% droprate as a legendary.
and a massive a dick
Orc in the background: THRALL CHEATS
@@idolsister technically garrosh didn't know about that and ended up punishing the person who tricked him when he found out
@@sheogallvoidgazer2423 updooted
Then what happened to Theramore?
@@apfelkuchen4399 it was a military target. It had tanks with enough firepower to blow orgimmar to bits
That's not my point. He used a mana bomb to win the fight. Which "true orc" fight like that? Someone who give a shit about the honorable traditions of the horde.
im sorry but Garrosh was right,he made him what he is.
All Garrosh did, was because of him
Nah, while you're right that Thrall did make Garrosh warchief, Garrosh made himself into a power hungry, war wacky despot. All his talk about Thrall making him what he was, was simply a deflection. He didn't have to alienate the entirety of the Horde, but he did. He didn't have to turn traitor and do all he did in WoD, but he did. At the end of the day, Garrosh is responsible for his actions, not Thrall. Good riddance to the son of Hellscream.
Nah dude if you use that excuse, then Why isn’t thrall blood hungry for humans after being imprisoned by them growing up. Garrosh just chose wrong.
he still cheated
@lelwut What are you on about? for one, giving someone the power and status over your kid is what a babysitter does, idk where you're from, but they act as a stand in parent. and forgetting that whole thing and focusing solely on garrosh, he was clearly not okay with being warchief, and thrall was like "deal with it, it's you now." Everything he did with that power and status of warchief is his own AND thralls failings.
Garrosh: *Explains why he did the things he did.*
Thrall: NU UH *Cheats in Mak'Gora*
The irony of thrall using magic to defeat their opponent in a duel to the death is amazing if you've seen movie.
Blizzard logic
The movie is on an alternate timeline too
I like the irony, it makes this scene even better imo.
Totally worth it to kill Garrosh.
theramore dude......theramore
Nagasakimore :D
As many people did, I hated Garrosh in the beginning of Cataclysm.
Then, I realized that he was neither good or bad, and he became what the other characters made of him.
Garrosh was trying his best for the Horde, but he was betrayed by pretty much everybody, a misunderstood character.
In the end, I think he was one of the best characters in warcraft.
On the other side, I can't stand Thrall anymore.
I loved him in W3, like everybody else I think. But since Cataclysm, he just became annoying.
He is like the ultimate good guy and that pisses me off.
I hope Blackhand or Grommash (or even Gul'dan, I wouldn't mind him) just kill him.
People like you piss me off. You turn your back on Thrall just as soon as Garrosh is dead. What is there to misunderstand? Garrosh was a nationalist (The Horde way or the High Way), a racists (He hated Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Goblins, Trolls, Pandarian, and Dreanei. careless for Taruen but respects them for being physically strong and nothing less despised the undead.) , a narcissist (He think that he is the greatest and blames everyone else for his failures while praising himself for every success) , a psychopath (He have no problems or moral delima in killing every man woman and child of an entire race or city if he deems them unworthy Theramore). Thrall ultimate good guy? that is what Adrian Wyrnn is being played into. Thrall dosen't want what happen to Dreanor created Outlands to happen to Azeroth so you hate him for that?
*****
I wouldn't. Nobody else would either. Killing men, woman, children and elderly just for family, prestige, honor, glory, pride and race? That sounds like an Islamic Nazi Jehadist.
Hail Ali! Hail Ali! Hail Ali! BOOOOOOOMMMM!!!
In Garrosh Case Horde Ali Horde Ali Horde Ali BOOOOOOOMMMM!!!
kentokae You have to understand that the story is not so simple.
Many people only care about the "Garrosh goes mad in mop" aspect, but there is way more than that.
Garrosh did not choose to become warchief, he didn't want to.
In the begining of the Cataclysm, Orgrimmar was heavely damaged, and Thrall leaves the city.
So, Garrosh has to take the lead and rebuild the city. BUT, Thrall had the brilliant idea of building Orgrimmar in the middle of a wasteland. Durotar and the Barrens are depleted of ressources.
So, Garrosh decides to invade Ashenvale. His advisors, Vol'jin, Cairne and some others disagree, but time is short, people are dying in the streets of Orgrimmar, the Horde needs to get her hands on some ressources ASAP. So, Garrosh starts the invasion of Ashenvale anyway.
His advisors are unpleased, Vol'jin just leaves him.
The next betrayal comes from Cairne. Some events including the Twilight's hammer lead Cairne to believe that Garrosh wanted to assassinate some druids, even though that was not true. Cairne challenges Garrosh to mak'gora, but somehow, the Grimtotem taurens managed to poison Gorehowl, and Cairne dies.
After the events of the Wrathgate, Garrosh doesn't trust the Forsakens.
He learns later that Sylvanas is using the Scourge's magic to turn humans into Forsakens. Garrosh is upset because Sylvanas is basically acting the way as the Lich King, so, he insults her in the process.
At this point, Garrosh has been betrayed several times. He no longer trust anyone but his own kind.
The events of MoP are just about this hatred rising.
I just want people to understand that Garrosh did not choose this way, he was forced into it.
He doesn't want to be a Warchief, but he has to. He did what he had to do for the survival of his people, and gets stabbed in the back.
Vol'jin is truely the one who led everyone to betray Garrosh. What happened to the Trolls is ONLY because of Vol'jin, he brought it on himself.
Blame thrall. Dumb asses. Andriun became king of stormwind as a kid and did a better job then Garrosh. So what is Garrosh's excuse? Oh wait it's Thrall rolls eyes. Many major character have daddy issues, Jaina killed her father, the king watched his father die, Arthas killed his father, Thrall never knew or meet his father until WoD, oh and the king of iron forge daughter, Garrosh may have been in the worst case scenario experiencing Murphy's law at its finest, that still doesn't excuse him for being a racist, for committing genocide at theramore.
You all claim that Garrosh didn't want to lead the horde. It is very funny that how all of you Garrosh Fanboys seem to have all forgot that he challenged Thrall for control of the horde just before WotLK. When shit hit the fan he all of the sudden was like you know what I don't want to be leader I changed my mind.
If thrall had continued to lead the horde deathwing would still be around. If Garrosh didn't challenge Thrall for leadership and question his leadership all of the time, then Thrall most likely would have selected someone else.
Stop Blaming and turning your back on Thrall. Garrosh didn't do anything for the horde.
***** I have no idea who any of those people are and it still don't excuse Garrosh.
Thrall didn't beat Garrosh, the elements did. They had fought 3 different times and Thrall lost each time he went toe to toe with Garrosh. Hes nothing without the elements getting involved.
Keep in mind that one time they fought, they got interrupted by the scourge. Another time, it wasn't a fair fight because Garrosh had the powers of Y'Sharrj. But I do agree, Thrall's a little bitch for using the elements.
Well he's a shaman, a duel between a warrior and a shaman only using auto attacks wouldn't go so well don't you agree?
4mped Thrall challenged Garrosh to a Mak'gora, which is an honor duel where the combatants on have one weapon, one witness each and no armor (only pants and boots) (copy pasta from Thomas Lanton)
xxxInfernofirexxx Under traditional rules yes, but the Mak'Gora between Thrall and Garrosh (which originally started in Wrath's pre-expansion event, where Thrall also used elemental powers) they decided on modern rules where they chose their own rules. It's safe to assume since we see no objection from Garrosh that elemental power was allowed.
Ask a shaman to beat a warrior with auto attacks
So for those people saying that Thrall cheated.. The ONLY time you've ever heard of a Mak'gora that was simply weapons only, and no magic was in the non-canon badly made Warcraft movie where Gul'dan used his magic to win and the surrounding Orcs call him a cheater and confront him.
This isn't the case for the game, and the actual Warcraft lore. A Mak'gora is a fight to the death with everything you have. Garrosh had brute strength, and Thrall had his Shamanistic magic.
Thrall did NOT cheat.
Ps. The Warcraft movie was pretty horrible..
1:06 Garrosh sounds like he is on the verge of tears, I love it.
ofc he was thrall left him to pick up thrall's pizzas XD
@@turpaan2373 Lmao I can't unhear pizzas now
Did the grass and storm remind anyone else of the very first cinematic from WC3? like when you first install the game and start it up you have the one of the human and orc fighting in a field before the infernal drops?
1:24 that line lives rent free in my head
Why didnt he loot Garrosh and get a better boa?
1:12 the WoW community right now.
I found the end to this fight quite "shocking"
Grasping even
+Francisco R I found it all a bit Sham' fisted
It was quite an "electrifying" fight though
Your comment was... re-volt-ing.
Some would say it was enTHRALLing
Garrosh is right here, honestly as the expansion progressed from Wotlk to WOD I understood Garrosh's point of view, he's a natural home born warrior from Dreanor. He wasn't born into a world like Thrall where there was negotiation between different types and alliances of peoples, he was born into a world of clans that fought each other for power and survival. When Garrosh took title of Warchief, The Horde was starving for supplies. It was either invade Ashenvale or let the Orc capital starve. When Garrosh took control of the Undercity, he only did it because Sylvannas was using her powers to resurrect the undead exactly as the Lich King did, he couldn't just walk around and let her continue her bad ways, he had to contain her. And the poisoned blade that killed the leader of the Tauren people, had nothing to do with Garrosh, nor the attack of the druids that provoked Cairne to even challenge him to the duel, it was actually the Twilight Hammer that attacked the druids and provoked Cairne, Garrosh was simply upholding his honor. Also the bombing of Theramore, it was a questionable move from the entire Horde alone, but its not like he dropped the bomb instantly, the Alliance and Garrosh's Horde were fighting for weeks before he decided to drop the bomb, and when Garrosh turned to Vol'jin for assistance in the situation (Because thrall said if he needed any help, go to Vol'jin for advice) Vol'jin insulted him and threatened to kill him. Knowing this, and seeing that Thrall cheated in the duel (You're only suppose to have 1 weapon in Mak'Gora and 1 witness for each person) Thrall used his elemental powers to fight the winning Warchief. After seeing this cinematic from playing the game (I've been playing the series since WC3) I started to dislike Thrall, and started to get extreme goosebumps when he even said to Thrall "You made me what I am". And the fact that Garrosh refused the position of Warchief and Thrall forced it on him, just makes Thrall more of a dick than any other character. With the Invasion of Pandaria, Garrosh did this for the hopes of establishing new supply for the Horde's people. He only became powerhungry when the Old God took control of his body. Shame he had such a terrible death though, but he went out swinging.
To think we went from such great ingame cinematics to that shitty ones we got in Dragonflight. Really sad.
Massive cred to Patrick Seitz for his voicing of Garrosh, you can feel everything from the determination to the ire to the sorrow. I really wonder what it was like in the recording booth that day.
always makes me cry
Garrosh was literally the best the Horde had
then this shitfest of lorewriting came and he was made the Villain
You got betrayed by Thrall yeah thrall cheated and even you said it was a bad idea
Garrosh cheated as well. Mutiple times.
@@apfelkuchen4399 how Garrosh had his hands and his axe thrall used elements
I mean he cheated before. For example in his duel with Cairne. Cairne was a better fighter than Garrosh. Garrosh only killed him with poison.
@@apfelkuchen4399 wut? he didnt poison his axe
that grimmtoten bitch did, he never wanted to kill Cairne even in a Mak'gora
the whole thing happened because of cultists anyway
Completely random thing to say, but I just wanna point out that Thrall's name literally means slave.
Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes our showing of "Pirate Warrior vs. Jade Shaman".
I come back to clean my eyes after the recent madness. Oh WoD. Forever my favorite and could’ve been so good
Bahaha my thoughts exactly
twice now garrosh has shown the ability to fly. wonder why he doesnt use it more frequently.
Heroic Leap has a long cooldown, too long to use it multiple times in one cinematic
ITS FINE WHEN THRALL DOES IT
Because magic isn't forbidden. Unless agreed upon before the fight.
@@TheHeartlessFour STILL THATS CHEATING!
@@SnakeA113 No it’s not. Magic isn’t expressly forbidden unless agreed upon by both fighters beforehand. Also. Thrall and Garrosh had a Mak’gora before the Cataclysm, where Thrall used his shaman magic there too, and no one cared. Garrosh knew what he was getting into.
@@TheHeartlessFour He made me what I am!
Thrall is the only orc with eyebrows
Hmmm.....
This cinematic actually made me feel sorry for Garrosh. I thought i was going to be happy that he was finally dead. But i guess not. You can even hear the pain in his voice as he talks to Thrall.
He's basically as close to being on the verge of tears as any orc can get, even when he's screaming Thralls name at the end, just like, none of this is my fault you dick. It's upsetting
Complicating things is that a shaman's power isn't theirs alone -- they borrow the powers of the Elemental spirits. So when Thrall invoked their power at the end, he was technically calling in reinforcements. My guess is that the only reason the Elements LET him do this was because they also agreed that Garrosh needed to die. But they were still really unhappy about their power being used like this, which is why Thrall loses his powers and the Doomhammer becomes dead weight in Legion.
Reminds me a bit of Thor and the occasions on which Mjolnir becomes unresponsive to him due to unworthy actions.
Why would Azeroths elements care about what happened on Draenor? They're not the same group of elements after all. Its far more likely his loss of power is a mental block.
mutegrab666 They probably would care if a Shaman used the powers of other elemental spirits to "cheat" in a duel. Such an act could have been seen as a sign of disrespect and dishonor to all Elements in general.
The elements aren't a culture the thought that they would care about a cultures eccentricities is ridiculous.
-Garrosh ponderings:
All these Garrosh excusers astound me. Not to say that Garrosh was PURE EVIL (because he absolutely was not), but like most people, he had some glaring character flaws and psychological issues, most important of which were his lack-of-a-father-figure issues. No doubt he was the wrong person in the wrong position at the wrong time, which is certainly sympathetic. But he made choices that would make anyone with an ounce of decency shudder. In truth, he truly was driven to do right by his people, but he alienated all the allies and advisors that were put in place to aid him in that difficult time, and then blamed everyone else for his own mistakes. This fight is just one more example of that, and I am GLAD that Thrall put his foot down instead of bending to the guilt. It's true that Thrall screwed up. But Thrall gave Garrosh a lot of tools and his own trust, and Garrosh (through a combination of awful circumstance and his own errors) threw it all away. I wish Garrosh had gotten a redemption story, but things don't always end the way we'd like them to.
+TJChaos power tends to corrupt. absolute power corrupts absolutely.
+TJChaos The advisors questioned his abilities after Garrosh essentially said "I don't wanna be warchief", when Cairne challenged Garrosh it was the absolute insult to him, essentially saying "You aren't good enough to be warchief" then when Cairne died from a poison that someone applied to Garrosh's axe everyone turned on Garrosh himself. He had to become extremely strict, people were beginning to doubt him, because of the duel Cairne became something like a Martyr. Then Garrosh was corrupted by the Old Gods because of his volatile emotions, (he still deserves to be held accountable for his many bad actions) leading him down an even worse road.
So yes Garrosh did some bad things and should answer for them, but he DEFINITELY wasn't some super villain. Thrall also definitely fucked up, he left to try and raise a child in the midst of wars and instability, which was stupid. Thrall had to leave to fight Death Wing, he didn't have to leave to start a family, Garrosh was doing fine before the MoP story started, that is why Thrall left, but it was a bad decision on his part for simply taking things at face value and feeling like he deserved some peace time or whatever.
In the end Garrosh and Thrall both should share equal blame and this Cinematic is amazing at expressing Garrosh's struggles but it still favors Thrall which is irritating.
+TJChaos some could actually argue it was thrall's fault. you miss a large chunk of what's actually happening. thrall saw that garrosh was a strong orc. but he also saw the power hungry in him. he made garrosh war chief in hopes that it would change him. you don't give a power hungry person more power, and hope that it makes him tame. that's not how the world works.
+TJChaos No Garrosh deserved to die. He deserved to die for destroying Theramore.
WoW O_o
What is the background music?
If this is Mak'gora, they shouldn fight without weapons? Only on bare fists?
No armor, one weapon, NO MAGIC
Only if its traditional, if so they both cheated, Garrosh has a gauntlet.
maybe you should read up on it before you speak wow.gamepedia.com/Mak%27gora
+mutegrab666 Garrosh had a gauntlet in his weapon hand, Thrall had full body armour, used shamanism and had dem swag beads. You ain't allowed beads in da fight.
JLAB Well there ya go, they both cheated by the standards of the traditional Mak'gora.
So....Lets see if im getting this. A green skinned orc and a normal brown skinned orc are fighting in a mak'gora. The untainted brown skinned orc is clearly the better warrior amounts the two and after a struggle comes out on top. It is clear in the end that the untainted orc will win. So the green skinned orc uses the powerful magic they wield to overpower and kill the brown skinned orc who fought fairly and used only their natural skill as a warrior and no magic of their own, not even having their weapon blessed by a shaman. So....If you remove the context here and look at this scene and the one from the movie, is there any difference between thrall cheating and Gul'dan cheating? Ignore ANY of backstory and look at the scenes with no context and as fights on their own with the same rules and what is the difference?
yeah thrall cheated and he lost control of doomhammer during legion
You got that right, m8
It's very different. Shaman powers (minus healing) were acceptable methods of combat in the modern Mak'gora that Garrosh agreed to.
Oooh come on! I'm sure Garrosh would have done the same if he got more power..
I'm getting pissed off more and more to see these comments and people who invents rules and their own definition of cheating. Here are the rules in a Mak'Gora : THERE IS NO RULE ! Basically a Mak'Gora is a 1v1 in which you can determin the rules before the fight. On Durotan and Gul'Dan Mak'gora, it was said, if I remember well, that it would be a hand-to-hand fight. So Gul'Dan cheated by using demonic magic. In Cairne and Garrosh's Mak'gora it was a warrior fight, without armor and with only 1 regular weapon. From here, you guys thought these are the rules of a Mak'Gora, but fucking NO. In THIS Mak'Gora, no rules were determined, SO THRALL DIDN'T CHEAT. He was ALLOWED to use his magic. Not because "it's shamanisme and not demonic" not because "he's a shaman so he can use his powers to beat a warrior" but because there was no rules, just a 1v1. Btw he has already done a Mak'Gora against Garrosh, he used some magic and none were shocked. In Saurfang and Sylvanas's Mak'Gora no rules were definited either SO SYLVANAS DIDN'T CHEAT ! Rly stop inventing rules and be like "Oh I'm right" whereas nothing was officially confirmed.
Garrosh is not wrong. Thrall dumped the leadership of the horde on his shoulders and left Garrosh to pick up any pieces Thrall had not. Garrosh even said beforehand he thought it was not a good idea for Thrall to make him Warchief but Thrall did anyway. I only partly blame Garrosh for the crimes he has committed. I blame Thrall because Thrall DID send him down his path. The other leaders of the horde when Garrosh came to power did not like or trust Garrosh knew this.
You're nothing but some overemotional lore hipster who was fooled by the sad music in the vid. have everyone forgotten Cairne??
pieces? the horde was fine until garrosh started fucking up, they almost had peace with the alliance, but garrosh just wanted to make orcs the masterace and kill everything else
check what he says and does when he's doing his trial in pandaria
they gave him the chance to live, to prove that he is worty, and he said that he would kill any undead/human/belf bla bla all races except orcs if he had the chance, and that he regrets nothing
KappaLappa Have we forgotten Magatha?
KappaLappa Garrosh when he found out his weapon had been poisoned by MAGATHA not himself he was furious. He had been denied his honorable Mak'Gora. His duel to the death. He was trying to kill Cairn in their duel just as Cairn was trying to kill him.
KappaLappa
Cairne challenged Garrosh. Garrosh had to either step down as Warchief or accept the challenge.
Guys there are a bunch of different version of the duel rules. They had the modern one that allows the use of magic as well as some kinda body armor.
Thrall brought gun to a knife fight
Thrall brought a missle launcher to a knife fight
What about Garrosh using the power of the heart in Pandaria?
rinleez That wasn't a one on one duel, and Garrosh had no reason to play fairly here either but he did anyway.
***** " Garrosh had no reason to play fairly" Neither did Thrall, so he ended his miserable life.
Neither did Thrall? wow.gamepedia.com/Mak%27gora
Thrall supposed fight fairly.
F2P player: "You never had the strength of a TRUE warrior!"
Premium player: "I do not rely on in-game currency, my power is from donate shop"
and then 1:40
I still get chills when I see Thrall say "My power is all around you" punctuated by what seems to be his inherited fel blood burning in his eyes intermingling with his mastery of the elements.
Yeah, and then he cheats like the cowardly green human that he is. A disgrace to all orcs, when he sees Drakka in SL, he should mention how he cheated to kill someone he put in power even though everyone told him not to, even the person he was trying to thrust the power onto.
@@imaran1303 Yeah Garrosh was totally the pinnacle of what an Orc should be when he became Y'shaarj's mindslave in 5.4 lol.
@@ntplusofficial I don't blane Garrosh for that, I blame the writing team for that one who only wanted to give the Alliance fanboys a loot pinata. Try and explain to me how that makes sense after his actions in Stonetalon? It doesn't. So I refuse to accept it and point to it as a character ruining moment. I do not take into consideration Blizzard-induced madness.
What's the music that is playing
Blizzard has an in-house orchestra. All the music in their games is original. I'm not sure if they've released a soundtrack for WoD yet, but you can check their store periodically to see if it's available
Hare-Brained Ideas no they don't, they use vst's and ither programs
Hare-Brained Ideas
this song is not in their soundtrack
FlutterSky1 And their programs? I think Jeremy Soule will punch you in your face if he heard that stupid thing.
*****
Sorry I was generalizing, I was stuck in 2007 :(
1:00 Christ, it almost felt like he was some child crying after he fails to impress his dad
This goes hand and hand with an unpopular opinion I have. Thrall is responsible for everything that happened. He had a duty to lead the Horde and he abandoned that duty and left the worst person he possibly could in charge (Garrosh actually tells Thrall this HIMSELF). Garrosh was always a hothead and a warrior and was never fit to lead. Thrall just didn’t want to take the responsibility on himself and chose to push it off on someone else and that someone is Garrosh, and you really feel it in this interaction. The cards are laid bare, Garrosh didn’t want this responsibility he was just stuck with it while Thrall ran off and never checked in. Thrall abandoned him. Then even after watching all of Garrosh’s failings as a leader Thrall’s bum behavior shines through again as he continues to allow Garrosh to lead and never steps in while Garrosh continues to commit atrocities. He watched the Bombing of Theramore, he watched Garrosh start a war with the Alliance, he stood by while Garrosh mistreated the Pandarians, he watched as Garrosh tried to have Voljin killed, and that’s just a short list. Thrall never even steps in until he’s forced too by the whole world coming down on Garrosh and laying Siege to Orgrimmar. Thralls bum ass behavior only persists as instead of taking over leadership of the Horde after the colossal fuck up that was the last guy he left in charge, he chooses TO LEAVE ANOTHER GUY IN CHARGE WHILE HE RUNS OFF AGAIN. Then after the most elaborate shit ever FINALLY this man finishes the job and kills Garrosh.
As much as I used to like Thrall, the whole "green jesus" thing is getting old.
Maybe Garrosh Hellscream will play a part in Legion, what if Guldan infuses him fel and raises him back??
+The Music Band no, cuz his smelling body, are left on draenor
+The Music Band Can't, it wasn't fel magic that raised the undead, or scourge, it was the dread lords and Ner'zhul's clan, (can't recall what it's called), Gul'dan had nothing to do with the scourge to my knowledge, he was with the legion.
+WereCreed the scourge was created by the legion, so Gul'dan being with the legion means nothing
Just now realizing this scene is basically a direct parallel between shifu vs tai lung
I CAME HERE TO REWATCH THIS AFTER THE 52 SECOND SHADOWLANDS CINEMATIC AND I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING HAHAHA
Ol' boy Garrosh is making a return in Shadowlands.
Just want to point out that Thrall actually broke no explicit rules of Mak'Gora by using magic; in fact it has been used on a number of occasions. While there is no stated rule on its usage one way or the other, every time it has been used, the results were deemed "valid."
Alright, so Sylvanas and Gul'dan didn't cheat either, thank you for playing this stupid game.
I wish Thrall died here, he's long over due and seem to be a safe path for blizz to take whenever they need something to be "fixed"
That's exactly why, I want the story to be like.. "Hey, we can actually kill our favourites for story!" Thrall is just boring now xD
+Maxwell Dawnbridge
And right after Garrosh has given him the killing blow a black arrow pierces his heart, making Vol'jin stay true to his word of finishing him off.
+Maxwell Dawnbridge
And right after Garrosh has given him the killing blow a black arrow pierces his heart, making Vol'jin stay true to his word of finishing him off.
Favorite WoW quote of all time Garrosh: " You made me this way!"
Thrall: " No , you chose your own destiny."
Excellent piano work.
Ironic how Garrosh died with such disgrace when his father died a hero.
Both performed horrible acts. One was able to fix his mistakes and saved the Horde, the other couldn't be fixed and almost destroyed the Horde.
In a way, their destines were mirrors of each other.
Good riddance to Garrosh. I hope he burns in hell for all eternity.
@@Doomlovesearth2 Garrosh did nothing wrong change my mind
@Walking Disaster Personally I think it might have been better if Jaina died at Theramore. Would have saved her the awful character assassination she suffered.
@Walking Disaster She has no love for the Horde now. I think she should have helped her father.
And this is an answer to the people who were saying Thrall isn't one of the strongest warriors in Azeroth. Garrosh had serious problems with him even though he is a warrior who specializes in meele combat. Thrall almost defeated him using his only hammer but the fun was over when Thrall stopped playing around and started fighting like a shaman would. He is one of the strongest Orcs in the Warcraft universe and I personally think only Grommash can defeat him.
He didn't almost defeat him, when Garrosh had Thrall above his head he could have easily dropped him onto his knee and killed Thrall by breaking his back but his ego stopped that happening and he threw Thrall away.
Garrosh defeated himself.
Thats totally wrong. Despite being bad Garrosh knows the meaning of honor. Thrall challenged him to duel thus saving a player. It's not about his ego but it's about his honor. No tricks, just a normal fight to the death. Do you think Thrall would just stand back and wait for him to finish him off by what you said "breaking his back"? Of course not. They both disarmed themselves. Thrall by provoking Garrosh into throwing a weapon, and Garrosh by doing it the old fashion warrior-style. Believe me, it's not so easy to wrestle an orc and break their necks with their muscular body. Although it brings a question if snaping the neck is a honorable kill(I think not).
Thrall is a far better tactician than Garrosh. The Hellscream is hot-headed and shoots first and thinks later. It is experience, wisdom, his strenght and his power that makes him superior to Garrosh.
The only way Garrosh stood a chance was to somehow disable Thrall powers just like in Siege of Orgrimmar. I think Thrall is a heavily underestimated character.
P.S: If you're saying that Garrosh could've killed Thrall easily when he was on his knees then what do you think Thrall could do if he used his shamanistic powers right from the beginning? I think it was obvious that Thrall gave him a headstart.
P.S2: I think that Blizzard wasted a good story material by killing Garrosh now. It would be cool to see Garrosh redemption just like his father.
Sylvanas is a badass. She is mysterious and no one knows what does she really wants.
She is an undead blood elf, she looks awesome. And I'm pretty sure she ain't that stupid. Why so much hate.
*****
True that. He doesn't hesitate to use every opportunity he has.
Huh...now when i rewatched it, noticed how thrall leaned to the left when carrying the doomhammer at the end. Hammer got heavier as the elements left him.
Garrosh did nothing wrong.
Yes he did
@@alejomaster4035 elaborate.
@@eggchin22x78His plans to conduct genocide on all non-orcs, corrupting the Vale of Eternal Blossoms, imposing martial law on his own citizens and even having some of them outright executed merely because he disagreed with what form of magic they used, etc.
This cinematic nearly brought me to tears
I agree with what you're saying, but not to the point of tears. It really hits my feels when Garrosh says "You left me to pick up your pieces". The pure emotion in his voice when he says "you left me" especially, is a good on Blizzards part. His voice conveys emotion so well! This is one of my favorite moments. But my number 1 fave is the Darkspear revolution, where you're talking to ol' Vol'jin in Razor Hill. When he says "Horde be a family. When de whole world try ta put us down, de family come an' pick us back up. We all each other got, see?" It makes my eyes very wet every time I read it. The first time I read it, it actually made me tear up. It just reminds me of my friends and how we're all kinda misfits, and how we take care of each other. God, just typing that Vol'jin quote out made my eyes get all watery. Idk about the Alliance, but playing Horde, and being part of the Horde means much more to me than just a game. It has a deeper meaning to me, that makes me feel part of something bigger, a family. Sometimes we argue, but in the end, we, the Horde, will stick up for each other. We are the Horde. We are family, for ever.
Lorewise, it was stupid for Thrall to give the mantle to Garrosh and it never made sense to me. Cairne Bloodhoof was the obvious choice, but for some reason in the novels Thrall felt it had to be an Orc, and still he felt Saurfang or Eitrigg were too seasoned? Always felt like a forced plot just to get us some old school Alliance vs Horse action, because Thrall had been far too diplomatic and level-headed for that clash to take place.
Even garrosh tried to convince him it was a bad idea lol, I guess it’s because the legacy of his name hellscream
you have to read a little more about the lore of world of warcraft guys
Lets create an extended metaphor for the situation. If you (Thrall) had to watch a child (Garrosh) and you went out for a dinner (Leaving Horde) and left the child with two extremely good babysitters (Eitrigg and Cairne), and your child killed one babysitter (Cairne) and ruined your house(Azeroth). Is it your fault for leaving the child? Or is it the child's fault for being crazy? It is under this thought I do not sympathise with Garrosh saying that it is Thrall's fault that he became who he is.
Page 122-126 of 'The Shattering' by Christie Golden details the conversation when Thrall made Garrosh Warchief. Though Garrosh was not Thrall's first choice of whom to give the title to, he acknowledged that "Garrosh was loved and a fine fighter, but he was also rash and impulsive"(121). He also hoped the temporary challenge would "inspire and guide" Garrosh to become a better leader in the future. Though Garrosh also indicates that he "would rather have a sword in [his] fist that a scroll" he ultimately confesses that "it is [his] true longing to lead the Horde"(126).
I've read many of Thrall's adventures in the novels, he is a character to have faith in those who few others do. This time it cost him and Azeroth countless lives. It was a blatant mistake, but he believed that it was the best move at the time. I do believe that Garrosh did choose his own fate. Thrall specifically emphasised the importance of having advisors (Cairne and Eitrigg) for Garrosh to assist him in his choices and counteract in a way his more rash way of approaching challenges. That they can provide wisdom and "other options I did not know I had". Though Thrall should be called out as a significant factor for much of the atrocities that befell Azeroth pre cataclysm, I feel it is unjust for such a lore rich character to be called harsh names.
Thrall may have opened a new path for Garrosh, however Garrosh chose how he walked that path. Garrosh is also an extremely interesting character full of potential, faults and strengths. Villains like him are great to follow because though the methods they accomplish their ideals are morally wrong, their intentions are understandable...agreeable even. I would have liked to see a more fitting end to his plotline, one with more closure for both him and Thrall.
Stupid metaphor, it is more like you told your child you are going out to buy cigarettes, as this was never supposed to be a permanent fixture, and then refuse to return, the babysitters you put in place abuse you, one blames you for something you didn't even do and tries to kill you for it, you then fight back and win, not because you were better, but because another child decided to poison your weapon without your knowledge, and the other also berates the child and threatens to kill him (Vol'jin)... .this metaphor is confused. All in all, it is Thralls fault.