I'm not sure, I'd take a bit of awkward animation set to the recorded audio tapes over a re-tooling. The animation has never really bothered me and even if it had to be in the style of 'The Invasion' animation from 10 years ago I'd still take it.
Evonne 1-Game of Thrones 2-Mrs Browns Boys I’ll get you the list if you want www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/55197/official-top-10-uk-dvdblu-ray-franchises-of-2017-announced You might want to scroll down a bit
I do understand why Whovians see the 2017 edition as pointless, but I am really happy to have a version of Shada that fits the 'lost episode' style. Sidenote: I do think I would have enjoyed it more if the episode was in parts... it's just something I'm used to and it was a bit weird thinking that it wasn't in parts... although that might just be the autism talking XD
Big Finish isn't Doctor Who. It's a part of it. Doctor Who is a show for all audiences. Big Finish is specifically for the fans. You're against me as a person because I got kicked from my own Discord server after Oliver had something personal against me. Please think before you start commenting things against me on a public video because one of your young friends fell out with me.
While the multiple versions of SHADA did kind of take some of the shine off of this the fact you got Tommy B doing the voice over this time made it feel kind of worthwhile (few were probably gonna see the Ian Levine version anyway). Good to know its at least a worthy entry.
I hate the idea of re-recording the original audio. it may sound like a good idea at fist, but it would rob the episode of all it's charm and atmosphere.
Utterly pointless. It sounds like an utterly dumb idea and I can't imagine what the point of it would be when the audio of the real thing exists. Barking. I wouldn't mind seeing them animate some BFs - but only the ones with the real Doctor actors. I've zero interest in other actors impersonating Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee either on audio or animation. Once the actors are gone, so too should their Doctors be, sorry.
I think his main point was that he thinks the animation will never be as good as it should be because the audio doesn't fit the animation, and that's why Shada worked... because the audio was meant for the animation. I don't think he meant, we SHOULD be doing this... I think it was more 'this is a problem and this is a way round it.' I don't think the whole 'once the Doctor regenerates that should be it' argument works as well these days, because Big Finish are so damn popular among fans. I do think it will rob the episode of its charm though... because it's less 'a lost episode' and more a remade episode... How would you feel if they remade, let's say, Marco Polo with David Bradley?
If you want a truly "lost story" of Doctor Who, read the third book in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series, because Douglas Adams originally pitched that as a Doctor Who story, but was turned down.
So you mentioned Faceless Ones, Macra, Abominable Snowmen, Fury from the Deep, and Evil of the Daleks would be better animated choices than Shada. And all of them have been released or announced. Next time mention a Hartnell one too, since you're predicting 100%! :D
I got this for Christmas and it was the first time i ever saw Shada so to me i loved it! Wish there was an episode option as well as the 2 hour version but i enjoyed the 2 hour version!
One thing I noticed is that Skagra is completely different in the animated bits - Neame's performance is much more reserved and actually much scarier than the OTT original.
TheJaviferrol yes oh god yes I mean child daleks in the reconstruction was actually creepy to me so I bet animation like the power of the daleks animation would elevate it
The Invasion (2006) The Reign Of Terror (2013) The Ice Warriors (2013) The Tenth Planet (2013) The Moonbase (2014) The Power Of The Daleks (2016) Shada (2017) The Macra Terror (2019) The Faceless Ones (2020) We're getting there, Mate! We're getting there!
Every Missing Story, At Best Quality, So Far (Because): Marco Polo (30 Minute Cut-Down Official Reconstruction) The Reign Of Terror (Black-White Animated) The Crusade (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction) Galaxy 4 (1 Hour Cut-Down Official Reconstruction) Mission To The Unknown (Unofficial Ian Levine Animation/Getting Recreated, by: 'Peter Purvus.' Other wise, Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction) The Myth Makers (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction) The Dalek's Master Plan (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction) The Massacre Of S.T. Bartholomew's Eve (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction) The Celestial Toymaker (My Personal Favorite: 'First Doctor,' Story, as said, in my video.) (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction) The Savages (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction) The Smugglers (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction) The Tenth Planet (Black-White Animated)
The Power Of The Daleks (Colour Animated) The Highlanders (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction) The Underwater Meneace (Crap Official Reconstruction (As said, in my video.)/Loose Cannon Reconstruction) The Moonbase (Black-White Animated) The Macra Terror (Colour Animated) The Faceless Ones (Getting Colour Animated) The Evil Of The Daleks (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction) The Abomibal Snowman (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction) The Ice Warriors (Black-White Animated) The Enemy Of The World (Recovered!) The Web Of Fear (Recovered!/Official Reconstruction) Fury From The Deep (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction) The Wheel In Space (Britbox Reconstruction/Superior Loose Cannon Reconstruction) The Invasion (Black-White Animated) The Space Pirates (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction)
Wow, couldn't disagree with your conclusion more. The reason the animations up to now have been lackluster (though I'd make an exception for Tenth Planet) is that the animators have never been given enough time or budget. Go back and listen to the animators on any of those projects and they ALWAYS talk about what a rushed production it was. The reason this release of Shada stands out is that it was given the care and attention it deserves. Had any of the previous projects been given this level of care they'd be just as well executed. The idea of recasting lost stories when we already have their audio is so ludicrous, I find it hard to fathom. That completely defeats the purpose of trying to experience these stories.
Tobar *shrugs* I realised it was gonna be an unpopular idea when I wrote it, would never happen either, was just an idea. Yeah the obvious limited time & budget is another factor (and probably the most important one) I just came to the perspective that these are conceptually flawed projects because they're so focused on recapturing the experience, so they're always gonna feel like a second best and I'm always gonna be thinking 'im watching this BECAUSE the original is missing. My suggestion is a remake rather than a reconstruction. A remake's purpose in say the movie world is supposedly to update the original for modern audiences, in this case the original doesn't even exist anymore so you've got even more of an impetus to do so, these are good stories and good ideas that have life in them beyond simply recreating lost tv Sorta like when hammer remade the old quatermass serials Idk, just an idea
Why? I haven't exactly seen many reasons I'm talking out of my arse yet. Remakes can be good, John Carpenter's the Thing was a remake. Shada with the 8th doctor worked, why wouldn't Evil of the Daleks with say David Troughton & Frazer Hines?
idk, just we always see the missing stories as a part of history more than the stories that they are, and this version of Shada was different for me because I was watching it as just "the story" rather than "the one that was never finished" - as good as the one with Tom Baker's linking monologues was, I still always felt like I was watching it as "the one was never finished" rather than just "the story that it is", just as I watched the power of the daleks animation as "a replacement offered" because the original got chucked in a massive fire and no one's seen it since, when Power of the Daleks should be more than a replacement
Stubagful but people don't always watch Classic Who just for the story, we watch it for not only the performances but the history behind it. Why re do it all when we have a copy of the original performance, why replace Patrick Troughtons performance when we have so little of him already. Doctor Who, in my view, isn't just the script, it's the effort these people put into bringing these stories to life. The beeb may have burned the visual record, but we have the audio, and i feel like it'd be disrespectful to just make a new one. Shada works because it was never there, they had a reason to make new recordings.
Not seen this version, but I've read the Gareth Roberts book, which was so well written that on the final page I instinctively heard the sting. Roberts really has a good connection with the Graham Williams era.
Clarification on the missing episodes suggestion: Kay knew this was gonna be a controversial point, and I know it'd never happen, it just occurred to me after watching Shada. Now I know the missing episode animation projects have been encumbered by low budgets and lack of time to meet deadlines, I can agree with that but ADDITIONALLY say that I've come away with the impression that missing episode animated projects might (might) be flawed on a conceptual level. The people behind them have done fantastic jobs and yes I love em to bits like the rest of you: all I'm saying is staying so faithful to the missing serials for history's sake is kinda overlooking just how good most of them were. And I don't think I'm alone in saying when I watch the animated versions, I am always reminded that I'm watching these BECAUSE the original is missing. The reason Shada was different was the project looked and sounded more cohesive, it was still encumbered by circumstances, but it didn't play into the fact it was never completed, as previous iterations of shada did by using it as a legend to hype it up, and as missing episode animations kinda do by using the soundtrack and trying desperately hard to look as faithful as possible. And my suggestion is only really say Macra Terror redone with Frazer, Anneke and Michael with David Troughton doing 2 for example, you've got Big Finish there, an audio based outfit with a strong history of solid dr who stories and adaptations of unmade stories. And hey: Shada with the 8th Doctor worked. I just don't see why we have to be so strictly faithful to the originals for history's sake rather than the story's sake, that's all As said though: just an opinion, and ain't that what I'm for? ;P
You haven't thought this through properly. Shada 2017 gets the best possible outcome that you could get for an animated reconstruction. The entire original cast is not only still alive, but they sound just as good as they were almost 40 years ago. So they can get pristine audio designed to suit the animation with no imitations necessary. I don't know what it is about the classic Who actors for the Doctors, but they were so distinctive that even David Bradley and Jon Culshaw, as good as they are, can't do them justice. I don't begrudge them mind, Bradley was mostly making original material and Culshaw's just parodying, which is fine.Hearing an imitation of Patrick Troughton and William Hartnell right after you've heard the real thing would be far more jarring than just seeing him animated.The clue is in the title. RECONSTRUCTIONS. The animation is there to help reconstruct the original performances. It's a better version of that ticker tape thing telling you what the stage directions are.
I'm absolutely boggled at the idea that some fans would rather hear impersonators on missing episode animations than Bill and Pat. Truly, truly insane.
@@codyw1 Yeah, some fans also want to completely remake the missing stories as well, I don't want a new weaker version I want an animated reconstruction of the original, so I can have the closest thing to the original that I'll ever be able to not some changed different version
I still find I prefer watching an animated reconstruction with the original audio rather than just the audio alone as, while it doesn't line up with animation perfectly, I still feel it is served better with accompanying (moving) visuals. They were never intended as audio dramas. Though I would certainly he open to your idea of remake as long as any replacements sound 'right'.
Very good points, but the major issue is that different people want different things from "Lost Episode" DVD releases. You want a release that maximises the consistency and quality of the story on its own terms - and so would be willing to accept surviving footage being replaced with animation, and the audio being re-done (even rewritten) with a new cast - but many others want the most complete. faithful reconstruction of the original broadcast possible - and so would be willing for new animation to feel slightly off with the original sound, or the switching between live action and animated footage to be a bit jarring. I'm pretty firmly in the latter camp. The missing episodes always frustrate in the way they make the formative years of Doctor Who's history feel like a patchwork, and so I'm happy to get new DVD releases which try their best to show what those episodes originally looked and sounded like throughout, while using as much of the surviving footage and audio as possible; filling in the history. Cleaner adaptations like the ones you describe would be... fine, but if I want to know what Evil of the Daleks was like, I want to actually hear Patrick Troughton's performance. No question. Sure, it's easy to say "If you want a reconstruction, just listen to the soundtracks with added narration!", but you could just as easily say "If you want a self-consistent adaptation, just read the Target novelisation!". Unfortunately the BBC can only choose one approach per story, at least the first time they do it. Another crucial detail is the budget. It's clear that they aren't allocated a huge amount of money to animate these things as it is, so it seems really unlikely they could afford to completely re-record/re-write the story on top of that, especially as there's no obvious reason this would lead to higher sales. So... yeah, pretty sure these things will continue to use the off-air audio recordings by default. Let's just hope they keep doing them!
Ever thought of covering Sarah Jane Adventures? Yeah it's for kids, but the two episodes per story format is pretty good and I think at its best it tops a lot of the dodgier end of new Who. I noticed it streaming on Netflix and was pleasantly surprised.
Retooling the scripts and re-recording lost episodes is actually a master stroke of an idea! Sign me up! (I'll work on it too if people are offering!) Doing that would also also allow the animation to take advantage of the medium. Be a bit more inventive with the design of the characters and shots and of course the way it moves. It would be nice if it no longer catered to that strange photo real look that resembles Archer but also treads too close to the uncanny valley.
I have the Shada audio drama and like most whovians thought the story had been completed. But I love the 2017 DVD and the animation blends nicely with the live action scenes
Don't be. I am the same as you, always loved the 1992 version, and was worried I wouldn't like this as much. I LOVED it. The animation is great too. ;)
I know I'm late to this video, but it was great. I am going to hold that "I love being proved wrong" line against you when the next animation (after the macra terror) is made. I have a lot of faith in that team. Keep making great content.
i cant belive they annonced faceless ones so early my guess is during the year were there was no animations 2018 i think it was were we only had enemy of the world se they animated macra and finished it and started faceless ones in late 2018 is my guess so i think they might be on top of things as animations are conserned for a bit
I’d be down with reworking everything BUT the performances by the original actors. Completely redoing the actual lines feels a bit too far for me, but I’m not sure why.
Rumour is there’s another announcement of Classic Who dvd realise next month- know with the announcement of a special edition of The Enemy of the World it might just be a Special edition of The Web of Fear
Fuck, I hope it's not another bloody special edition. I wish the Beeb would put some more money towards animating lost Doctor Who episodes. Or even some of the best Big Finish stories.
I kind of wish they had put the old actors in their costumes and finished the episodes fully in live action. So actors' ages will change between scenes, or even shots, and just don't even mention it. I Feel like it would have had a surreal meta quality that would fit with Douglas Adams' work.
I don't think they need to re-record audio for the episode reconstructions. I just think they need to get more creative with how they edit the audio they have. Maybe isolate the vocals and recreate the sound effects. That way you can re-time the voices to better match the animation instead of the other way around.
I completely agree. Shada with newly recorded audio was easier to watch and get into compared to the cheap previous animation with the love recordings as it just didn't feel authentic. Recasting for voiceovers and good animation would make the lost classics much more enjoyable
I wish people at the BBC would go the next step and make live action versions of the classics in black and white and some of the non made stories like Masters of Luxor, The Red Fort and Operation Werewolf
Mate, I will defend Creature From The Pit till my dying day. It was one of my first novelisations I read and I truly enjoy the story as it was broadcast.
I really hate how people are like “but Genesis & Spearhead have been realised more so stop complaining” like Fuck Off, they didn’t lie about the marketing & it was already a dvd plus we didn’t need this to be animated we need some 1 or 2 to be
I think ultimately the reason Shada is a (tbh bit) more fluid a translation is simply that the company leanred from their previous experiences...BBC has been shifting the animation work between studios with these animations and that has both prevented a proper evolution of the art and denied the studios really investing in the ongoing projects. No matter how you look at it words or pictures one has to come before the other in this process so it really is illogical to think they cannot properly match to an existing soundtrack and, to my mind at least, an oppertunity wasted to not try.
Well, if the BBC are gonna take your advice and recast the Doctor and his companions in order to remake the episodes to help better suit them for animation, someone ought to give Christopher Thomson a call. His Troughton is spot on.
Could they not have at least given us he option to watch it in the original 6 part format? I’m really curious to know where the cliffhangers would’ve been.
I have to say, it drags a bit and isn't really helped by them not editing into proper episodic format. So i sat through 3 hours waiting for the cliffhanger
Odd story to animate next but I guess all the cast are still alive. I haven’t seen the older versions so I quite enjoyed this. I was hoping for Daleks Masterplan or Evil of the Daleks to be animated. Animation was so better than Power’s maybe because they had more time or less to animate.
I found Shada a bit overrated I knew I found it fine but some of it was really cheesy and I don’t know why the professor would start talking the prisoner (can’t recall the name) about if he really was him
I would have as much interest in re-cast remakes of missing Doctor Who stories as I have in Big Finish's re-cast First Doctor plays... IE Zero. The beauty of Doctor Who's format is that we don't have to get in people to impersonate out-going actors when they leave... Regeneration allows the in-coming actors to NOT impersonate the people they are replacing. Yes, I do think that the quality of animation on the re-animated missing stories could be better. I don't really understand why it's so primitive... DC makes straight-to-DVD animations that are incredibly slick, so I don't understand why the BBC can't look at their business model and do the same. DC has it's DVDs animated in the far-East where animation is much cheaper and more professional. Check out releases like 'Justice League: New Frontier' as an example. Why even bother to make it animation if you are re-casting it? Why not just film it? (Not that I'd be interested but...) what's your reasoning there?
I honestly cannot understand any fan that would think this would be a good idea. Clearly I'm out of touch, it seems utterly ridiculous, pointless and massively disrespectful to boot.
No offense, Stu me old China, but the only way re-recording the missing episodes would ever work if the audio too was destroyed and if fans hadn't recorded at all. But even then, for every Big Finish, there's Paul Merton or that recent sad recreation of a missing scene from a Steptoe and Son episode The best options would be either remaster the audios as if it was every bit a new recordel the day filming commenced or just just the audio as is but have he animation be akin to Filmation circa 1966-70 (i.e. the DC animated shorts)
Don't apologize for suggesting they animate *The Macra Terror* . It needs to happen. Also, i think the problem with the Dr Who animation is down to the actual animation quality. t's just not good, it's janky and stuttered. Granted it could be reminiscent of classical animation from the earlier decades (i.e. something along the lines of Krabat The Sorcerer's Apprentice) but it still feels off to the modern consumer of animation. Don't get me wrong, next to *Real Time* and *Death Comes To Time* they are still immensely enjoyable additions to my collection.
wiliam murphy I would say Baker as I’ve not listened to the Paul McGann version. But they’re are certain things in this new version which makes me wonder if it is canon anymore???
Let's find out which version is better, TV or audio: The Doctor- TV Romana- Audio K9- Audio Chris- TV Claire-TV Chrinotis- TV Skagra- Audio The ship- Audio The Krags- Audio Wilkin- Audio Comedy- TV Music- Audio Cliffhangers- Audio TV-5 Audio-8
The McGann version says the Tom version was a dream the doctor had which is what triggered him to go back to Cambridge in 1979, so by saying 8's canon it technically makes both canon.
You're just biased because you've already seen it a million times. But it was cool for me to hear, because I'd only seen the version with Tom Baker narration once and only recently in the past year or two discovered the legend of the unfinished story.
I've only heard of Shada, don't know anything about the plot. Is it worth buying for a non completion-ist fan? Does anyone know which version is the best to watch?
codyw1 My favourites are nearly all Tom Baker ones. Although I could go on at length about the other standouts from the earlier Doctors, Tom Bakers early stuff is incredible. Alien is so similar to The Ark in Space, The Seeds of Doom is like John Carpenters The Thing, Brain of Morbius is like Frankenstein, Pyramids of Mars is like the classic gothic hammer horror films. I can't wait to get into 7, apparently he is really dark. Is that true?
It wasn't disinteresting to me I'd never heard of it until it was announced xD too bad it was kind of a meh story and wouldn't have been so widely known if it wasn't the infamous abandoned story
Has there been an official explanation from the BBC for the unusually long time lag between the UK release and the US release? Any idea if it will at least show up in the US iTunes store before September?
It was for Doctor Who fans Am I Doctor Who fan I don’t need another copy of Shada, plus it wasn’t “an abandoned classic until now” there’s 3 different versions of the full story realised on different mediums
I never meant Doctor Who fans. I meant the ultra mega-nerd classic fans who have bought every version of Shada. It was meant for the casual classic Whovians. That's what that branding was for, sorry to confuse.
The reason they animate the missing episodes is to replace the visuals to that missing episode, people see it in the same way as watching a normal classic... but I feel if the whole thing is remade people won't see it as a 'missing classic'. I don't mind the idea, but I don't think other fans will agree with the idea...
N00Bular The Dwarven People oh I'm not saying to remake an entire episode, I'm saying make NEW content, so it'd be like having a new Old Episode of Doctor Who. Bring in a prolific Writer from Big Finish or something, bring in a cast, and animate!
Went from the “unmade” Doctor Who story to the “most made” Doctor Who story.
I'm not sure, I'd take a bit of awkward animation set to the recorded audio tapes over a re-tooling. The animation has never really bothered me and even if it had to be in the style of 'The Invasion' animation from 10 years ago I'd still take it.
Maximus 97 this. I'm watching classic doctor who cos I want to watch the performances of the cast from back then, not some retooling.
Same and I don't want scenes taken out, things removed or changed either like with the macra terror how they removed two scenes and what not
Actually due to Shada the Classic Who DVD section got Top 3 position in the UK top dvd selling of 2017
And New Who 10
Borgin & Burkes Antiques Shop Which was excellent as it was released so close to Xmas. I wonder what was the top 2 was.
Evonne 1-Game of Thrones
2-Mrs Browns Boys
I’ll get you the list if you want www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/55197/official-top-10-uk-dvdblu-ray-franchises-of-2017-announced
You might want to scroll down a bit
Thanks
Every doctor needs their own shade run through cause why not.
I suggest He Who Moans for the animated New Who stories The infinite quest and Dreamland.
Dreamland is one of those stories that I love even though a lot of it is cringy...
The Infinite Quest is brilliant, but I've NEVER seen Dreamland. Couldn't find it ANYWHERE.
I do understand why Whovians see the 2017 edition as pointless, but I am really happy to have a version of Shada that fits the 'lost episode' style.
Sidenote: I do think I would have enjoyed it more if the episode was in parts... it's just something I'm used to and it was a bit weird thinking that it wasn't in parts... although that might just be the autism talking XD
It just means i now have to watch 3 versions of Shada during my Who rewatches. :3
No it doesn't, you can just watch the 2017 version since it's the best Shada is gonna get..
This is coming from a person who thinks big finish isn't doctor who
Big Finish isn't Doctor Who. It's a part of it.
Doctor Who is a show for all audiences.
Big Finish is specifically for the fans.
You're against me as a person because I got kicked from my own Discord server after Oliver had something personal against me.
Please think before you start commenting things against me on a public video because one of your young friends fell out with me.
While the multiple versions of SHADA did kind of take some of the shine off of this the fact you got Tommy B doing the voice over this time made it feel kind of worthwhile (few were probably gonna see the Ian Levine version anyway). Good to know its at least a worthy entry.
I hate the idea of re-recording the original audio. it may sound like a good idea at fist, but it would rob the episode of all it's charm and atmosphere.
Utterly pointless. It sounds like an utterly dumb idea and I can't imagine what the point of it would be when the audio of the real thing exists. Barking. I wouldn't mind seeing them animate some BFs - but only the ones with the real Doctor actors. I've zero interest in other actors impersonating Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee either on audio or animation. Once the actors are gone, so too should their Doctors be, sorry.
I think his main point was that he thinks the animation will never be as good as it should be because the audio doesn't fit the animation, and that's why Shada worked... because the audio was meant for the animation. I don't think he meant, we SHOULD be doing this... I think it was more 'this is a problem and this is a way round it.' I don't think the whole 'once the Doctor regenerates that should be it' argument works as well these days, because Big Finish are so damn popular among fans. I do think it will rob the episode of its charm though... because it's less 'a lost episode' and more a remade episode...
How would you feel if they remade, let's say, Marco Polo with David Bradley?
If they remade Marco Polo with David Bradley? I would hate it, it wouldn't be the same.
David Bradley sucks. There, I said it.
He's nothing like the first doctor XD But it's a nice part of the first doctor...
1:37 To say nothing of the multiple versions of Dirk Gently's Holistic Agency.
If you want a truly "lost story" of Doctor Who, read the third book in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series, because Douglas Adams originally pitched that as a Doctor Who story, but was turned down.
So you mentioned Faceless Ones, Macra, Abominable Snowmen, Fury from the Deep, and Evil of the Daleks would be better animated choices than Shada. And all of them have been released or announced. Next time mention a Hartnell one too, since you're predicting 100%! :D
I got this for Christmas and it was the first time i ever saw Shada so to me i loved it! Wish there was an episode option as well as the 2 hour version but i enjoyed the 2 hour version!
One thing I noticed is that Skagra is completely different in the animated bits - Neame's performance is much more reserved and actually much scarier than the OTT original.
( 1:45 ) The only thing I like about Season 17 is Tom and Lalla who look like they are having fun walking around nice locations. 😂
Can we animate Evil of the Daleks...please?
TheJaviferrol yes oh god yes I mean child daleks in the reconstruction was actually creepy to me so I bet animation like the power of the daleks animation would elevate it
Can we animate a Hartwell plz
The Invasion (2006)
The Reign Of Terror (2013)
The Ice Warriors (2013)
The Tenth Planet (2013)
The Moonbase (2014)
The Power Of The Daleks (2016)
Shada (2017)
The Macra Terror (2019)
The Faceless Ones (2020)
We're getting there, Mate! We're getting there!
Every Missing Story, At Best Quality, So Far (Because):
Marco Polo (30 Minute Cut-Down Official Reconstruction)
The Reign Of Terror (Black-White Animated)
The Crusade (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction)
Galaxy 4 (1 Hour Cut-Down Official Reconstruction)
Mission To The Unknown (Unofficial Ian Levine Animation/Getting Recreated, by: 'Peter Purvus.' Other wise, Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction)
The Myth Makers (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction)
The Dalek's Master Plan (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction)
The Massacre Of S.T. Bartholomew's Eve (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction)
The Celestial Toymaker (My Personal Favorite: 'First Doctor,' Story, as said, in my video.) (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction)
The Savages (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction)
The Smugglers (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction)
The Tenth Planet (Black-White Animated)
The Power Of The Daleks (Colour Animated)
The Highlanders (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction)
The Underwater Meneace (Crap Official Reconstruction (As said, in my video.)/Loose Cannon Reconstruction)
The Moonbase (Black-White Animated)
The Macra Terror (Colour Animated)
The Faceless Ones (Getting Colour Animated)
The Evil Of The Daleks (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction)
The Abomibal Snowman (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction)
The Ice Warriors (Black-White Animated)
The Enemy Of The World (Recovered!)
The Web Of Fear (Recovered!/Official Reconstruction)
Fury From The Deep (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction)
The Wheel In Space (Britbox Reconstruction/Superior Loose Cannon Reconstruction)
The Invasion (Black-White Animated)
The Space Pirates (Audio Soundtrack/Loose Cannon Reconstruction)
Love this review, stuff like this makes all the work we do worth while
Bloody loved Shada man. Best of luck in future projects :)
Wow, couldn't disagree with your conclusion more. The reason the animations up to now have been lackluster (though I'd make an exception for Tenth Planet) is that the animators have never been given enough time or budget. Go back and listen to the animators on any of those projects and they ALWAYS talk about what a rushed production it was. The reason this release of Shada stands out is that it was given the care and attention it deserves. Had any of the previous projects been given this level of care they'd be just as well executed. The idea of recasting lost stories when we already have their audio is so ludicrous, I find it hard to fathom. That completely defeats the purpose of trying to experience these stories.
Tobar *shrugs* I realised it was gonna be an unpopular idea when I wrote it, would never happen either, was just an idea.
Yeah the obvious limited time & budget is another factor (and probably the most important one)
I just came to the perspective that these are conceptually flawed projects because they're so focused on recapturing the experience, so they're always gonna feel like a second best and I'm always gonna be thinking 'im watching this BECAUSE the original is missing.
My suggestion is a remake rather than a reconstruction. A remake's purpose in say the movie world is supposedly to update the original for modern audiences, in this case the original doesn't even exist anymore so you've got even more of an impetus to do so, these are good stories and good ideas that have life in them beyond simply recreating lost tv
Sorta like when hammer remade the old quatermass serials
Idk, just an idea
A very bad one...
Why? I haven't exactly seen many reasons I'm talking out of my arse yet. Remakes can be good, John Carpenter's the Thing was a remake. Shada with the 8th doctor worked, why wouldn't Evil of the Daleks with say David Troughton & Frazer Hines?
idk, just we always see the missing stories as a part of history more than the stories that they are, and this version of Shada was different for me because I was watching it as just "the story" rather than "the one that was never finished" - as good as the one with Tom Baker's linking monologues was, I still always felt like I was watching it as "the one was never finished" rather than just "the story that it is", just as I watched the power of the daleks animation as "a replacement offered" because the original got chucked in a massive fire and no one's seen it since, when Power of the Daleks should be more than a replacement
Stubagful but people don't always watch Classic Who just for the story, we watch it for not only the performances but the history behind it. Why re do it all when we have a copy of the original performance, why replace Patrick Troughtons performance when we have so little of him already. Doctor Who, in my view, isn't just the script, it's the effort these people put into bringing these stories to life. The beeb may have burned the visual record, but we have the audio, and i feel like it'd be disrespectful to just make a new one. Shada works because it was never there, they had a reason to make new recordings.
Not seen this version, but I've read the Gareth Roberts book, which was so well written that on the final page I instinctively heard the sting. Roberts really has a good connection with the Graham Williams era.
Clarification on the missing episodes suggestion: Kay knew this was gonna be a controversial point, and I know it'd never happen, it just occurred to me after watching Shada.
Now I know the missing episode animation projects have been encumbered by low budgets and lack of time to meet deadlines, I can agree with that but ADDITIONALLY say that I've come away with the impression that missing episode animated projects might (might) be flawed on a conceptual level.
The people behind them have done fantastic jobs and yes I love em to bits like the rest of you: all I'm saying is staying so faithful to the missing serials for history's sake is kinda overlooking just how good most of them were.
And I don't think I'm alone in saying when I watch the animated versions, I am always reminded that I'm watching these BECAUSE the original is missing. The reason Shada was different was the project looked and sounded more cohesive, it was still encumbered by circumstances, but it didn't play into the fact it was never completed, as previous iterations of shada did by using it as a legend to hype it up, and as missing episode animations kinda do by using the soundtrack and trying desperately hard to look as faithful as possible.
And my suggestion is only really say Macra Terror redone with Frazer, Anneke and Michael with David Troughton doing 2 for example, you've got Big Finish there, an audio based outfit with a strong history of solid dr who stories and adaptations of unmade stories. And hey: Shada with the 8th Doctor worked. I just don't see why we have to be so strictly faithful to the originals for history's sake rather than the story's sake, that's all
As said though: just an opinion, and ain't that what I'm for? ;P
You haven't thought this through properly. Shada 2017 gets the best possible outcome that you could get for an animated reconstruction. The entire original cast is not only still alive, but they sound just as good as they were almost 40 years ago. So they can get pristine audio designed to suit the animation with no imitations necessary. I don't know what it is about the classic Who actors for the Doctors, but they were so distinctive that even David Bradley and Jon Culshaw, as good as they are, can't do them justice. I don't begrudge them mind, Bradley was mostly making original material and Culshaw's just parodying, which is fine.Hearing an imitation of Patrick Troughton and William Hartnell right after you've heard the real thing would be far more jarring than just seeing him animated.The clue is in the title. RECONSTRUCTIONS. The animation is there to help reconstruct the original performances. It's a better version of that ticker tape thing telling you what the stage directions are.
I'm absolutely boggled at the idea that some fans would rather hear impersonators on missing episode animations than Bill and Pat. Truly, truly insane.
@@codyw1 Yeah, some fans also want to completely remake the missing stories as well, I don't want a new weaker version I want an animated reconstruction of the original, so I can have the closest thing to the original that I'll ever be able to not some changed different version
I still find I prefer watching an animated reconstruction with the original audio rather than just the audio alone as, while it doesn't line up with animation perfectly, I still feel it is served better with accompanying (moving) visuals. They were never intended as audio dramas. Though I would certainly he open to your idea of remake as long as any replacements sound 'right'.
Very good points, but the major issue is that different people want different things from "Lost Episode" DVD releases. You want a release that maximises the consistency and quality of the story on its own terms - and so would be willing to accept surviving footage being replaced with animation, and the audio being re-done (even rewritten) with a new cast - but many others want the most complete. faithful reconstruction of the original broadcast possible - and so would be willing for new animation to feel slightly off with the original sound, or the switching between live action and animated footage to be a bit jarring.
I'm pretty firmly in the latter camp. The missing episodes always frustrate in the way they make the formative years of Doctor Who's history feel like a patchwork, and so I'm happy to get new DVD releases which try their best to show what those episodes originally looked and sounded like throughout, while using as much of the surviving footage and audio as possible; filling in the history. Cleaner adaptations like the ones you describe would be... fine, but if I want to know what Evil of the Daleks was like, I want to actually hear Patrick Troughton's performance. No question.
Sure, it's easy to say "If you want a reconstruction, just listen to the soundtracks with added narration!", but you could just as easily say "If you want a self-consistent adaptation, just read the Target novelisation!". Unfortunately the BBC can only choose one approach per story, at least the first time they do it.
Another crucial detail is the budget. It's clear that they aren't allocated a huge amount of money to animate these things as it is, so it seems really unlikely they could afford to completely re-record/re-write the story on top of that, especially as there's no obvious reason this would lead to higher sales. So... yeah, pretty sure these things will continue to use the off-air audio recordings by default. Let's just hope they keep doing them!
Completely agree. I was watching it the other night and you are right about how well it flows.
Ever thought of covering Sarah Jane Adventures? Yeah it's for kids, but the two episodes per story format is pretty good and I think at its best it tops a lot of the dodgier end of new Who. I noticed it streaming on Netflix and was pleasantly surprised.
Retooling the scripts and re-recording lost episodes is actually a master stroke of an idea! Sign me up! (I'll work on it too if people are offering!)
Doing that would also also allow the animation to take advantage of the medium. Be a bit more inventive with the design of the characters and shots and of course the way it moves. It would be nice if it no longer catered to that strange photo real look that resembles Archer but also treads too close to the uncanny valley.
NO!
Utterly batshit ridiculous. No thanks.
I completely agree! I think it's a really good idea :)
It makes sense to me. As long as it's well done, I'm all for it.
I think it's a terrible idea
I have the Shada audio drama and like most whovians thought the story had been completed. But I love the 2017 DVD and the animation blends nicely with the live action scenes
I am afraid of this one. I fell in love with the version that has missing bits narrated by Tom. It's my all time favourite Doctor Who story.
Don't be. I am the same as you, always loved the 1992 version, and was worried I wouldn't like this as much. I LOVED it. The animation is great too. ;)
1 day ago???
Also I love this new version!!!
Great review Stu!!! :D
Patreon gives people early access to his videos: patreon.com/stubagful
I know I'm late to this video, but it was great. I am going to hold that "I love being proved wrong" line against you when the next animation (after the macra terror) is made. I have a lot of faith in that team. Keep making great content.
i cant belive they annonced faceless ones so early my guess is during the year were there was no animations 2018 i think it was were we only had enemy of the world se they animated macra and finished it and started faceless ones in late 2018 is my guess so i think they might be on top of things as animations are conserned for a bit
I’d be down with reworking everything BUT the performances by the original actors. Completely redoing the actual lines feels a bit too far for me, but I’m not sure why.
Rumour is there’s another announcement of Classic Who dvd realise next month- know with the announcement of a special edition of The Enemy of the World it might just be a Special edition of The Web of Fear
Borgin & Burkes Antiques Shop If it is The Web Of Fear i hope they got Episode 3 back from that private collector.
Fuck, I hope it's not another bloody special edition. I wish the Beeb would put some more money towards animating lost Doctor Who episodes. Or even some of the best Big Finish stories.
Jack McCullough He's a selfish fucker, and i hope he's tracked down
Borgin & Burkes Antiques Shop It’s a fucking Special Edition of Enemy of the Fucking World. Why? Seriously, why?
Bainser no it’s not a special edition of enemy of the world
We don’t know what it is as the announcement is in March
When I first saw Shada, my thought was they should start creating new classic era episodes as animations similar to what Big Finish does on audio.
I'm surprised Big Finish hasn't done more of their own versions of the lost stories.
I quite like the Nightmare of Eden. Not really sure why, but I liked it.
Funny, cool ideas, strong themes, good Tardis team. It's perfectly natural to like it! :)
Quite. All of season 17 is good to great.
I kind of wish they had put the old actors in their costumes and finished the episodes fully in live action. So actors' ages will change between scenes, or even shots, and just don't even mention it. I Feel like it would have had a surreal meta quality that would fit with Douglas Adams' work.
I don't think they need to re-record audio for the episode reconstructions. I just think they need to get more creative with how they edit the audio they have. Maybe isolate the vocals and recreate the sound effects. That way you can re-time the voices to better match the animation instead of the other way around.
‘Nightmare of Eden’ is fucking excellent though. Highly recommend
Recasting a whole Dr who serial? I'd rather have the original audio animated thank you very much
I like Shada
I completely agree. Shada with newly recorded audio was easier to watch and get into compared to the cheap previous animation with the love recordings as it just didn't feel authentic. Recasting for voiceovers and good animation would make the lost classics much more enjoyable
i think they should do it to episodes like nightmare fair
I wish people at the BBC would go the next step and make live action versions of the classics in black and white and some of the non made stories like Masters of Luxor, The Red Fort and Operation Werewolf
Great video Stu! Is there any chance you could do a video about the Fourth Doctor era as a whole? Cheers!
I got it for Christmas but still haven't got round to watching it. But with your recommendation I'll try to.
Mate, I will defend Creature From The Pit till my dying day. It was one of my first novelisations I read and I truly enjoy the story as it was broadcast.
I really hate how people are like “but Genesis & Spearhead have been realised more so stop complaining” like Fuck Off, they didn’t lie about the marketing & it was already a dvd plus we didn’t need this to be animated we need some 1 or 2 to be
Is this the Royal "we"? Because this particular fan was DELIGHTED with Shada.
Yeah. Agreed. I'd like to see an animated reconstruction of The Daleks' Master Plan
SirJedi Sentinel it’s the most adult dw serial and by far the best handling of a long series of episodes.
now to wait for classic doctors, new monsters volume 2.
I think ultimately the reason Shada is a (tbh bit) more fluid a translation is simply that the company leanred from their previous experiences...BBC has been shifting the animation work between studios with these animations and that has both prevented a proper evolution of the art and denied the studios really investing in the ongoing projects. No matter how you look at it words or pictures one has to come before the other in this process so it really is illogical to think they cannot properly match to an existing soundtrack and, to my mind at least, an oppertunity wasted to not try.
I personally think the BBC should get Big Finish's Lost Stories team to remake the audio for these projects.
Well, if the BBC are gonna take your advice and recast the Doctor and his companions in order to remake the episodes to help better suit them for animation, someone ought to give Christopher Thomson a call. His Troughton is spot on.
Could they not have at least given us he option to watch it in the original 6 part format? I’m really curious to know where the cliffhangers would’ve been.
I think they should animate the unmade seasons 27 and 23 (well, as much as was scripted)
One thing to learn of this video. Animation is hard.
Depends what type of animation...
I have to say, it drags a bit and isn't really helped by them not editing into proper episodic format. So i sat through 3 hours waiting for the cliffhanger
Odd story to animate next but I guess all the cast are still alive. I haven’t seen the older versions so I quite enjoyed this. I was hoping for Daleks Masterplan or Evil of the Daleks to be animated. Animation was so better than Power’s maybe because they had more time or less to animate.
Are you going to review Classic Doctors New Monsters 2 for the McGann?
I just wed got "Fury From the Deep"
But shada was a nice release as its one of my favourite stories.
I found Shada a bit overrated I knew I found it fine but some of it was really cheesy and I don’t know why the professor would start talking the prisoner (can’t recall the name) about if he really was him
We could animate a new story for dvd. Get a new cast to make a new story featuring a classic doctor.
The actors would have to be very good. That's my only condition. I love the acting in the Troughton era
What did you think of the last scene?
Will you be reviewing the macra terror when the new dvd comes out
I would have as much interest in re-cast remakes of missing Doctor Who stories as I have in Big Finish's re-cast First Doctor plays... IE Zero. The beauty of Doctor Who's format is that we don't have to get in people to impersonate out-going actors when they leave... Regeneration allows the in-coming actors to NOT impersonate the people they are replacing.
Yes, I do think that the quality of animation on the re-animated missing stories could be better. I don't really understand why it's so primitive... DC makes straight-to-DVD animations that are incredibly slick, so I don't understand why the BBC can't look at their business model and do the same. DC has it's DVDs animated in the far-East where animation is much cheaper and more professional. Check out releases like 'Justice League: New Frontier' as an example.
Why even bother to make it animation if you are re-casting it? Why not just film it? (Not that I'd be interested but...) what's your reasoning there?
I honestly cannot understand any fan that would think this would be a good idea. Clearly I'm out of touch, it seems utterly ridiculous, pointless and massively disrespectful to boot.
Though the animation on the 1st and 2nd Doc stories has never bothered me. I really like the animated episodes of The Invasion.
They have animated The Macra Terror now and we're getting Fury From the Deep sometime relatively soon, any plans for a review?
Did Macra Terror - th-cam.com/video/8jOfgyky_uM/w-d-xo.html
Definitly will do Fury
No offense, Stu me old China, but the only way re-recording the missing episodes would ever work if the audio too was destroyed and if fans hadn't recorded at all. But even then, for every Big Finish, there's Paul Merton or that recent sad recreation of a missing scene from a Steptoe and Son episode
The best options would be either remaster the audios as if it was every bit a new recordel the day filming commenced or just just the audio as is but have he animation be akin to Filmation circa 1966-70 (i.e. the DC animated shorts)
3:14 How did you predict the 5 next animation they would do?
i get were your mean by the missing episode thing but i think instead they should do that with the missing season 23
Don't apologize for suggesting they animate *The Macra Terror* . It needs to happen. Also, i think the problem with the Dr Who animation is down to the actual animation quality. t's just not good, it's janky and stuttered. Granted it could be reminiscent of classical animation from the earlier decades (i.e. something along the lines of Krabat The Sorcerer's Apprentice) but it still feels off to the modern consumer of animation. Don't get me wrong, next to *Real Time* and *Death Comes To Time* they are still immensely enjoyable additions to my collection.
Could someone explain which version of Shada is canon the Baker or McGann ?
wiliam murphy I would say Baker as I’ve not listened to the Paul McGann version.
But they’re are certain things in this new version which makes me wonder if it is canon anymore???
Let's find out which version is better, TV or audio:
The Doctor- TV
Romana- Audio
K9- Audio
Chris- TV
Claire-TV
Chrinotis- TV
Skagra- Audio
The ship- Audio
The Krags- Audio
Wilkin- Audio
Comedy- TV
Music- Audio
Cliffhangers- Audio
TV-5 Audio-8
Both
Doctor Who has no official canon
It'd be amusing to have the New Series joke about which version of events was supposed to have happened.
The McGann version says the Tom version was a dream the doctor had which is what triggered him to go back to Cambridge in 1979, so by saying 8's canon it technically makes both canon.
Stuart i have a question, where do you download the clips for your reviews? I mean, is there a site or something?
Still has not been released in region 1 sadly
Davie Jones Not until fucking September.
Is there a way to turn the picture size to 16:9
You're just biased because you've already seen it a million times. But it was cool for me to hear, because I'd only seen the version with Tom Baker narration once and only recently in the past year or two discovered the legend of the unfinished story.
I've only heard of Shada, don't know anything about the plot. Is it worth buying for a non completion-ist fan? Does anyone know which version is the best to watch?
Absolutely, it's a classic story. Absolutely get the new 2017 one, it's the definitive version.
codyw1 Ok, thanks. I just recently got into collecting the classic stories. SO MANY GOOD EPISODES. I think I might like it more than New Who ^-^
That just means you have good taste. ;)
codyw1 My favourites are nearly all Tom Baker ones. Although I could go on at length about the other standouts from the earlier Doctors, Tom Bakers early stuff is incredible. Alien is so similar to The Ark in Space, The Seeds of Doom is like John Carpenters The Thing, Brain of Morbius is like Frankenstein, Pyramids of Mars is like the classic gothic hammer horror films. I can't wait to get into 7, apparently he is really dark. Is that true?
actually just watched city of death for the first time. Not bad but not great.
It's great you dick
So who did the voiceovers for the older characters who are now deceased? There's nothing on IMDB.
The story was slightly tweaked and they used archive audio for them
“...& I probably would have put off getting it if people had been nagging me to cover it on He Who Moans”
Where ???
Show me the receipts!
Why didnt they make the rest of shada in 1980 but I like the animation though
BBC strikes screwed up the rest of the recording, and although JNT made some attempts to remount it he couldn't make it work.
It wasn't disinteresting to me I'd never heard of it until it was announced xD too bad it was kind of a meh story and wouldn't have been so widely known if it wasn't the infamous abandoned story
Just did my own review of Shada if anyone wants to check it out
4:12 NEV
This version of Shada was pretty good and I think it works. But Shadas overrated
Has there been an official explanation from the BBC for the unusually long time lag between the UK release and the US release? Any idea if it will at least show up in the US iTunes store before September?
You've regnerated. I don't like it.
Yeh but I’m still not gonna get it and the marketing still lied to us
That’s not gonna change
The marketing wasn't meant for us and... the episode is worth it. Why not? It's not that much money?
It was for Doctor Who fans
Am I Doctor Who fan
I don’t need another copy of Shada, plus it wasn’t “an abandoned classic until now” there’s 3 different versions of the full story realised on different mediums
Your loss.
I never meant Doctor Who fans. I meant the ultra mega-nerd classic fans who have bought every version of Shada. It was meant for the casual classic Whovians. That's what that branding was for, sorry to confuse.
codyw1 how am I loosing anything ? I already have Shada which was cheaper than this edition
This is what I've been saying! Use actors from the time, write up a new script, and animate!
I don't think it will rub well with other fans...
N00Bular The Dwarven People how so? The way I see it would essentially be Big Finish, probably toned down, but with images
The reason they animate the missing episodes is to replace the visuals to that missing episode, people see it in the same way as watching a normal classic... but I feel if the whole thing is remade people won't see it as a 'missing classic'. I don't mind the idea, but I don't think other fans will agree with the idea...
N00Bular The Dwarven People oh I'm not saying to remake an entire episode, I'm saying make NEW content, so it'd be like having a new Old Episode of Doctor Who. Bring in a prolific Writer from Big Finish or something, bring in a cast, and animate!
no