So couple clean up points! 1. Did not mean to drop Doc Savages name. Not even sure what I was going for. That’s unrelated basically. 2. Dracula reinvented/popularized the modern vampire. Not the original. 3. There is a lot of blending between fairytales and romanticism. I kinda made it seem like they were unrelated. They are HIGHLY tied together.
I didn't know, that before Dracula there were Vampires. I mean yeah there are Monsters that drink blood, but I was never sure if Bram Stroker took Blooddrinking Monsters to Dracula or if there were monsters beforehand labeled Vampires. The Problem is that back then the Brüder Grimm Stories were maybe Fairytails, but today the Originals are pretty brutal, so no one would see their work as a Fairytail. Oh yeah and I love your new Green Screen Style.
@@jackwriter1908 from what I've heard, vampires before Dracula were more like modern zombies in some ways. They had the same name but no real characteristics aside from being undead and drinking blood.
Dracula didn’t reinvent modern vampire; Bram Stoker was inspired by Carmilla a gothic novella written by J. Sheridan Le Fanu in 1872. The novella introduces a vampire as a dark creature with sexual cravings, obsessions, and other similarities to a modern vampire. What Bram Stoker did was transform an actual historical figure, Vlad Tepes III Dracula, widely known for his cruelty, into the fictional character Dracula, the first vampire.
Pré-historic fantasy must've been wild, things like "once hard rock water fell from the sky" or "I saw bird hatch from egg, but snake also come from egg"
As someone who has tried to explain snow to someone in a (part of a) country where "cold" meant 60*F and ice wasn't readily available until the last 5-10 years - can confirm, felt like I was explaining magic.
I would point to Shakespeare as having a huge influence on elements of modern fantasy. Macbeth had its witches, and Hamlet has its ghosts, fake ghosts, and rumors of ghosts. And perhaps more influential were his historical plays, which popularized "court drama" and house-vs.-house political conflicts that we see in fantasies such as ASOIF.
Tolkien himself noted that he created Ents partially in response to his disappointment that the mention of Birnam Wood coming to Dunsinane Hill in Macbeth was metaphorical and not actual trees marching to war.
Also the tempest. The lead character Prospero is an exiled sorcerer who wields magic by binding elemental spirits to his will and using magic circles of power. A lot of perceptions of the modern wizard were popularized by Shakespeare as well.
A couple points: 1. Arthurian legends are older than the written stories, accounts going back to the bronze age. 2. Bram Stoker didn't invent vampires, he reinvented them, prior to his book a vampire was something in folklore more akin to what we today consider ghouls or zombies.
I don’t think Daniel said Stoker invented vampires, and besides the vampire appeared in fiction before Dracula, in a book written by Lord Byron’s doctor (can’t remember his name). English folklore doesn’t actually have vampires as such, the closest is probably the Irish figure of the Leanan sídhe, which definitely have some of the more romantic qualities of modern vampires.
The photo of the man looking completely defeated and dejected for the Chosen One is a vibe and definitely the most accurate image you could have chosen.
Bro I gotta say. I’ve been in an extremely dark period of my life and 2020 has just compounded my misery like the lord ruler. But goddamn it seeing your content level up and your channel grow really has been some of the best parts of my day for about a year. I’m so happy and proud of you and this channel’s community.
Stay strong after rain comes sunshine is what translates best what i always said to myself even i feared complete darkess light always pops up somewhere. After night comes day i hope you have fam, friends or sm people you can talk 2 for suport. Ill send you a little prayer . Kind regards from somebody who knows the dark
Fun Facts! Bram Stoker did not invent vampires, or even Victorian vampire stories (Carmilla predates it, along with others). However, he did help massively popularize them. Conan actually predates The Hobbit by a couple of years and was quite popular in its time, and Sword and Sorcery as a whole likely influences video game fantasy as much as Tolkien does (they certianly didn’t get bikini armor from Tolkien). Finally, Robert Jordan wrote several Conan novels! Not a lot of people know that.
Funny that you mention bikini armour. One of its most famous proponents (Red Sonja) was called out for its lack of practicality by none other than Conan. It's treated as absurd even in-universe, and yet it's what most people remember.
Dracula could walk in daylight and was killed by a Bowie knife. Nosferatu (a blatant copyright-dodge) and Bela Lugosi's Dracula created the visual look that still survives. But The Count from Sesame Street perfected the vampire, because a legendary method of evading a vampire was to toss rice or seeds at it: a vampire would be compelled to stop and count every grain or seed! We need more of that!
It’s October and I got a question. What is a good horror book (series) that matches these qualities?: -A mainly werewolf-themed series(no vampires) -Mostly horror, along with a little sense of humor, and some romance(none of that Twilight-related garbage) -a monster mythology that focuses generally on werewolves, and maybe some ghosts, witches, and warlocks -Keeping things with the traditional werewolf lore, such as death by silver, transformation reversed or blocked by wolfsbane, uncontrollable transformation from the full moon, and werewolves looking like actually werewolves(not regular wolves, Lon Chaney lookalikes, or a bunch of shirtless underwear model-wannabes like in Twilight or the Teen Wolf show)
Everyone remembers Bram Stoker's "Dracula", but most people ignore or don't know about the much earlier "The Vampyr" by Polidori (which was written at the same spooky writing session as Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein").
A video like this must have taken a lot of academic research, and we the community appreciate it!!! Hopefully it was a labour of love. You sir, have earned my 'Thumbs Up'
"I don't know if I'm saying that right, I'm dyslexic as shyt" made me spit some of my tea, just a lil. Hahaha! This must have required SO MUCH DANG RESEARCH, DAYUM. Super rad, dude. :D
I wrote a college paper on how fantasy actually created real world influence. The big example is that California is named after Calafia, an amazonian queen in a Spanish adventure novel popular at the time of the exploration. In the story the amazonians ride griffins, and that's why a griffin was the mascot and logo of my college.
He mentioned stories like Beowulf, he doesn’t need to mention The Iliad, the Epic of Gilgamesh, The Odyssey, Metamorphoses, Aeneid, Waltharius, Táin Bó Cúailnge. It’s not a video on epics, I think we get the desired picture.
I got a Question. What are some really good and recommended examples of a High Fantasy series that has these qualities?: -A fantasy world that is its own mythology -Epic fight scenes and wars -Intense magic battles -A hugely expanded magic system -The archetypical hero’s journey -Dragons, Unicorns, Griffins, Sea Monsters, Phoenixes, and other known mythical beasts -Stunningly beautiful and smart female characters and love interests -Romantic story arcs that involve love and sex -Conflicts involving politics -Political/Social themes of conservatism but without getting too preachy or controversial for the readers -Themes and elements and faith and religion -Spiritual and psychological themes -Elves, Dwarves, Goblins, Ghouls, Vampires, Merfolk, Fairies, Centaurs, and other non-human races -Different languages that are spoken by non-human languages -A feared and all-powerful dark lord who is after the main hero -the archetypal wise wizard -a community of wizards and sorceresses -Dark themes of tragedy, corruption, betrayal, and genocide -A tone that turns into being dark and gritty while always being mature from the start -Characters that are realistic and relatable in personality -Light and positive themes of faith, love, friendship, loyalty, honor, sacrifice and optimism
Dude. I can feel the energy and your immense passion for fantasy in this video. Thank you always for your efforts and I'm always looking forward to your content!
You jumped over Lord Dansany, who was actually the first person to use the word "phantasy" for his writings. His Pegana was a huge influence on Silmarilion
Well, Lord Dunsany and his world of Pegana was also a great influence on Tolkien and I would argue that it was full blown Fantasy, and it was published in 1905 (The Gods of Pegana, that is). Also, it is impossible to talk about the origin of fantasy and not mention the Epic of Gilgamesh
Any "history of fantasy" that omits Lord Dunsany is one that can't be taken seriously. Come to think of it, any "history of fantasy" that omits the vast influence Robert Howard had on the genre, ignores landmark works like the Dying Earth, or landmark characters like Fafhrd and The Gray Mouser or Elric of Melnibone' is one that can't be taken seriously. Lord Dunsany was the Tokien before Tolkien. He was a popular writer and a true renaissance man. Soldier, chess player (invented his own variation on the game) big game hunter, playwright, fantasist. William Morris created the first fully fictional world, Dunsany took it to the next level with two books: the aforementioned Gods of Pegana and Time and the Gods. The first recounts the creation of the world by the gods, the second focus on the humans in that world. Sound familiar? It should because Tolkien would later follow that exact same pattern in The Silmarillion. Dunsany also had a good sense of wry humour that makes his works feel timeless and somewhat modern. And he's a better story teller than Tolkien by far. After Dunsany comes Tolkien, who took world building to the next level, as Dunsany's Pegana could be nebulous and dreamlike. Not only that, but Tolkien brings European influence back into the picture as a lot of fantastical tales in Dunsany's time looked to the Orient to elicit a sense of mystery and the exotic. HP Lovecraft's entire Dream Cycle was him trying to do Lord Dunsany. Neil Gaiman's "Stardust" was essentially a love letter to Dunsanian fantasy (and yes, Dunsany was big enough and unique enough to have a style named after him)
My favorite aspect about the "Fantasy" & "Sci-Fi" genres is the reason why Brandon Sanderson says he writes in them. Those 2 "genres" are more like settings as they can and often do encompass overlap almost every other genre. You want a political action adventure story? You want a grim-dark romance story? You want a murder mystery story? They can all be found in Fantasy/Sci-Fi.
Yes! So glad you mentioned the serial fantasy magazines! Did a paper about how they shaped the genre! ❤️ And now how creepypasta and stuff is our new fairytales.
Awesome video - Thanks man! Incredible, how you can talk 18 minutes about this topic, and there is still so much more to say about it. You could probably dedicate a whole channel just around this topic!
Thank you Daniel for reminding me. Doc Savage and Perry Rhodan books were my entry into reading as an adolescent. Kitschy enough to be fun and short enough to get through. Gotta dig up one of them old Doc Savage's.
They fall in your epic poem bit, but I'd say the Iliad and the Odyssey are definitely part of this evolution. Of course, there's a sidenote ofc on religion and whether the Olympians were fantastical or not to the people back then. But I mean, the Odyssey in particular is a travel quest with witches and monsters. As are the trials of Hercules in general (and many other mythological stories).
Was going to mention The Iliad & The Odyssey too. Wherever we look, legends and myths have been the forefront of fantasy always. Norway, Germany, the Balkans, all throughout Asia and Africa.. got to agree with Daniel on the importance of the fantastical for people throughout history.
Just have to say I'm kinda glad your taking a break from reading this video was awesome AND it will give me a chance to catch up on my TBR pile without your reviews adding more to it. Thank you for sharing your views and passion for the fantasy genre.
I have a PhD in medieval lit and love fantasy. You did an awesome job covering a lot of territory accurately, clearly, and in under 20 minutes. Impressive!
Relevant book: "Tales Before Tolkien" / Douglas A Anderson. A collection of those "fairy tales" that influenced later fantasy writing, starting in the early 19th century.
One of your best videos IMO, Daniel. The hard work paid off! This kind of content, the deeper dives, is my favorite stuff. And of course great use of the Greene Screene.
Tolkien did do original stuff especially around the creation of language, hobbits and making a world so detailed there's books about its plants. It was groundbreaking to make a whole mythology and then produce widely read stories from it
Great video. I appreciate the examples you pull from, but would love to see a deeper dive into a lot left out. Specifically around the influence of Epic Poems and ancient text across the world (Ovid, Apuleius, Vedic Mythology, One Thousand and One Arabian Nights, et. al.), Plato, Chaucer, Sir Gawain, Mary Shelley (in Gothic Horror), etc.
William Morris was writing and publishing historical romances and fantasies in his Oxford and Cambridge Magazine in 1856, two years before MacDonald's Phantastes. I think it might be more accurate to say "English fantasy" then "Western fantasy", as different things were going on in French, German, Norwegian, etc. at this time. And hybrid- and non-European cultures were common-place in fantasy; (Lord Dunsany, Robert E. Howard, Clark Ashton Smith, Edgar Rice Burroughs, etc.), long before Tolkien committed the word "Hobbit" to print.
This opens up so many avenues for discussion and I love it. We can talk about the 2 streams of Fantasy, "Sword and Sorcery" and Tolkien "Epic Fantasy"; we can talk mythology like the Enuma Elish, we can talk Science Fantasy like The Book of the New Sun or Dune. So much to talk about, so much content. Ah Daniel you mad lad, this is exciting just thinking about the possibilities. I hope authors chime in from time to time too. Thank you for giving me much to think about. Especially Romanticism which I hadn't considered deeply.
I think this is your best scripted video (YA videos are close contenders) It’s obviously taken a lot of work to produce & research and I found it extremely enjoyable. Hope other appreciate it too
As always, another great video. Great information, well rounded exploration of it, visually enjoyable, fun script, and an interesting topic for fantasy nerds of all ages. 👏👏👏
That's probably my favourite videos of yours (that I've watched, I'm still kinda new here :P). It was insanely interesting! Loved that you talked about how fascinating the human psyche is, I absolutely agree and that's why I love literature so much!
Great work! I love this historical content! I do have to say that you probably should have mentioned theater/opera, because especially operas have had a HUGE influence on the genre in many ways people don't realize. :) Richard Wagner's Ring of the Nibelung would look very familiar to Tolkien readers, and of course much of Shakespeare has fantastical elements. :)
I took a class on fantasy and had to read several epics before building up to LOTR, so at least my professor is definitely arguing that epics were the earliest forms of fantasy (well the hero’s quest specifically)
Which Tolkein drew from heavily particularly Norse and Die Niebelungenleid. Dont have to go much farther than the Dwarven names and ironically Gandalf was a dwarf.
I don't agree. The epics like the illiad were stories that people believed were real history at the time. It was not fantasy from the perspective of the writer or original audience. The Aenied comes close as people knew it was fiction at the time but it was not written to be enternaining literature it was written as political propoganda for the Roman empire.
These are probably my favorite Danial Greene videos. The green screen educational/rant. The YA fantasy ones were the first ones I watched that got me to subscribe to the channel. Hearing all the amazing stories that came before in fantasy just makes me all the more inspired to write great fantasy, and to make it even more unique. I think as a writer it can be hard to go more unique because you're told by modern publishing that that won't sell, and while all us writers want to write our stories to be amazing, we also really wanna be sold. Excited for when we get a video on the history sci/fantasy! I know a lot less on the sci-fi side and would be really interested to learn more!
Never heard that hot take at the end before: 'Take any story, and add fantastical elements if/where you need to amp it up.' I also love the perspective that Fantasy uses extreme (impossible, unbelievable etc.) fiction to make great commentary on the real world. That's what I try to do in my writing... with a light hand. Thanks Daniel!
These kind of videos are the ones I will definetly come back to, as well as use for my class. I especially enjoyed this one as fantasy is my favourite genre and you have done it so well and worded it so it is really easy to remember these things later on
Daniel! I've read WoT in my teenage years right up to the slog and gave up. You have given me faith. I've started repurchasing the WoT series to reread it. I loved it pre-slog. I want to say to you, thank you for what you do. Nerds of all kinds struggled in the early days. It's awesome to see them stand so tall, and be so proud.
I appreciate the work that went into this show - like you said, you are barely scratching the surface. I hope there will be more content like this coming and that some of your debates will feature controversy about where fantasy has been and where it's going. One quibble - if you are going to talk about history, you should *always* cite your sources. Watch The History Guy to see how it can be done unobtrusively.
Wonderful video! A couple minor corrections: John Polidori’s The Vampyre (written at the same time as Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein) is much older than Bram Stoker’s version. William Morris’s first fantasy was not The Wood Beyond the World. He wrote quite a few, but The House of the Wolfings was the first. You are correct that George McDonald preceded Morris by decades, but I would argue that Morris was a bigger influence on Tolkien. It’s great to see you bringing more attention to the history of the genre!
Great video, Daniel. I would like to point out how important “Castle of Otranto” by Horace Walpole is to the Gothic genre, fantasy, and modern horror. Not to get too deep, as it would need a whole paper, but Otranto set up the haunted “alive” hous/castle trope, romance within horror, found documents trope, secret tunnels, and cursed families/individuals. Much of this obviously influenced Stoker and many, and I mean many, gothic literature that came after. We can see direct influence even all the way up to Steven King today.
What an outstanding video. A work of art! I have been following you for quite a while. I have witnessed your evolvement over time. This video by far is your best yet. Videos like this one bring your imagination and intelligence to the forefront. Thank you for being you. Stay safe and healthy.
Mary Shelley's Frankenstein was written before Bram Stoker's Dracula. One would argue, that she popularized the gothic story... But awesome video, my man. Keep doing what you're doing. You have a bigger impact, than you think.
Gardner Dozois essays on the subject of the evolution of the fantasy genre are worth the read if you have not already done so. You mentioned magazines and John Carter briefly. I consider that a pretty key period in the transition from fairytales to fantasy and even Dickens was being publish as a pulp serial. Good video.
If you havent read it, the castle of Otranto is a WILD ride! It very much focuses on my favorite part of gothic literature: creepy eerie tone where there is a "monster" but the real monsters are people. It's a weird book but incredible!
This is awesome! If I remember correctly Bram Stoker didn’t create the vampire, the first vampire was Nosferatu and Dracula wasn’t even that big of a thing when it first got put out but everything else is awesome!
Great video! Must have been so much work, but it turned out awesome! It would have been interesting to see you discuss the explosion of YA fantasy in recent years, because I feel like that'll prove significant to the genre too.
Very interesting. I find deep dive videos always enjoyable. Though all I could think about after 12:40 was if a video can get demonetized if the word f*** is shown in huge letters behind Daniel. Also why he did that while talking about Lewis. Great video as always Daniel.
Great video, I love it. Now I feel some type of nostalgia about the early almost medieval written books you mentioned. I will search for them because I want to read them.
Used to love the Princesses and the Goblin the animated film as a kid. I had know idea the the book it was based off had a claim as one of the first fantasy books ever! Very cool, thank you man.
Damn I love fantasy and I love your channel. This was a great video. Around-the-fire-story-time? That's how it felt watching this. I declare myself heart-warmed.
Really appreciate your hardwork and research! can't wait for your next videos. But don't forget to take care of yourself and take a break off of social media once in a while. Just to enjoy the world around you. Good job on this!
The weapons in your videos started with a kitchen knife and have evolved to a bonafide sword. At this rate it won't be long before you're wielding comically-large weapons like those seen in Monster Hunter/Final Fantasy/World of Warcraft.
Tolkien wrote an essay on fairy stories, where he briefly goes into both the history of the genre as well as what specific values he sees fantasy imparting to the reader. Good, instructive read.
So couple clean up points!
1. Did not mean to drop Doc Savages name. Not even sure what I was going for. That’s unrelated basically.
2. Dracula reinvented/popularized the modern vampire. Not the original.
3. There is a lot of blending between fairytales and romanticism. I kinda made it seem like they were unrelated. They are HIGHLY tied together.
Wait what’s wrong with Doc Savage?
I didn't know, that before Dracula there were Vampires.
I mean yeah there are Monsters that drink blood, but I was never sure if Bram Stroker took Blooddrinking Monsters to Dracula or if there were monsters beforehand labeled Vampires.
The Problem is that back then the Brüder Grimm Stories were maybe Fairytails, but today the Originals are pretty brutal, so no one would see their work as a Fairytail.
Oh yeah and I love your new Green Screen Style.
@@jackwriter1908 from what I've heard, vampires before Dracula were more like modern zombies in some ways. They had the same name but no real characteristics aside from being undead and drinking blood.
Dracula didn’t reinvent modern vampire; Bram Stoker was inspired by Carmilla a gothic novella written by J. Sheridan Le Fanu in 1872. The novella introduces a vampire as a dark creature with sexual cravings, obsessions, and other similarities to a modern vampire. What Bram Stoker did was transform an actual historical figure, Vlad Tepes III Dracula, widely known for his cruelty, into the fictional character Dracula, the first vampire.
Where’d you get a replica of Joyeuse?!
Pré-historic fantasy must've been wild, things like "once hard rock water fell from the sky" or "I saw bird hatch from egg, but snake also come from egg"
Lmao this gave me a chuckle
Probably on shrooms, which explains a lot. Magic mushrooms/potions probably influenced ancient religion which in turn influenced fantasy.
You should check out aboriginal 'dreamtime' stories, they are possibly the oldest stories we have
@@kerneywilliams632 "magic mushrooms" definitely influenced even modern religions XD
As someone who has tried to explain snow to someone in a (part of a) country where "cold" meant 60*F and ice wasn't readily available until the last 5-10 years - can confirm, felt like I was explaining magic.
Barefoot, holding a sword and wearing a smartwatch on a rainbow wristband. Yeah, that's Daniel.
And this is a lovely study break, beautifully timed.
"Smoochy smoochy squeaky squeaky" - ladies and gentlemen, we now all know how Daniel Greene flirts.
I lost it at that line 😂
I would point to Shakespeare as having a huge influence on elements of modern fantasy. Macbeth had its witches, and Hamlet has its ghosts, fake ghosts, and rumors of ghosts. And perhaps more influential were his historical plays, which popularized "court drama" and house-vs.-house political conflicts that we see in fantasies such as ASOIF.
Midsummer night's dream is an Absurdist Fantasy. 😂 He definitely has an influence.
Tolkien himself noted that he created Ents partially in response to his disappointment that the mention of Birnam Wood coming to Dunsinane Hill in Macbeth was metaphorical and not actual trees marching to war.
Certainly, Castle of Otranto in particular rips off a lot from Hamlet. The gothic as a sub genre owes a lot to Shakespeare.
@@RichardDicksondlyrch68 Also Éowyn killing the witch king. The "man not born of a woman" prophecy.
Also the tempest. The lead character Prospero is an exiled sorcerer who wields magic by binding elemental spirits to his will and using magic circles of power. A lot of perceptions of the modern wizard were popularized by Shakespeare as well.
A couple points:
1. Arthurian legends are older than the written stories, accounts going back to the bronze age.
2. Bram Stoker didn't invent vampires, he reinvented them, prior to his book a vampire was something in folklore more akin to what we today consider ghouls or zombies.
He made Vampires Popular because People call every Vampire, Dracula now a days. At least people who don't Know how to Separate them.
Carmilla is a sexy non zombie vampire that predates Dracula too
I don’t think Daniel said Stoker invented vampires, and besides the vampire appeared in fiction before Dracula, in a book written by Lord Byron’s doctor (can’t remember his name). English folklore doesn’t actually have vampires as such, the closest is probably the Irish figure of the Leanan sídhe, which definitely have some of the more romantic qualities of modern vampires.
@@charliewrigg1319 the way he (Daniel) said it made it seem he (Bram Stoker) invented vampires as a whole.
*edited* for clarification.
@@charliewrigg1319 'The Vampyre' by John Pollidori is what you're thinking of. I'm sure he didn't mean to say Stoker invented the vampire
The photo of the man looking completely defeated and dejected for the Chosen One is a vibe and definitely the most accurate image you could have chosen.
That isn't just a man. That's celebrity sex idol Rich Evans!
It's just modern Kaladin, he'll be alright (I hope)
RICH EVANS IS A NATIONAL HERO
Mr. Plinket?!
Bro I gotta say. I’ve been in an extremely dark period of my life and 2020 has just compounded my misery like the lord ruler. But goddamn it seeing your content level up and your channel grow really has been some of the best parts of my day for about a year. I’m so happy and proud of you and this channel’s community.
Stay strong after rain comes sunshine is what translates best what i always said to myself even i feared complete darkess light always pops up somewhere. After night comes day i hope you have fam, friends or sm people you can talk 2 for suport. Ill send you a little prayer . Kind regards from somebody who knows the dark
I can strongly relate, it's gonna get better.
Fun Facts!
Bram Stoker did not invent vampires, or even Victorian vampire stories (Carmilla predates it, along with others). However, he did help massively popularize them.
Conan actually predates The Hobbit by a couple of years and was quite popular in its time, and Sword and Sorcery as a whole likely influences video game fantasy as much as Tolkien does (they certianly didn’t get bikini armor from Tolkien).
Finally, Robert Jordan wrote several Conan novels! Not a lot of people know that.
Funny that you mention bikini armour. One of its most famous proponents (Red Sonja) was called out for its lack of practicality by none other than Conan. It's treated as absurd even in-universe, and yet it's what most people remember.
Dracula could walk in daylight and was killed by a Bowie knife. Nosferatu (a blatant copyright-dodge) and Bela Lugosi's Dracula created the visual look that still survives. But The Count from Sesame Street perfected the vampire, because a legendary method of evading a vampire was to toss rice or seeds at it: a vampire would be compelled to stop and count every grain or seed! We need more of that!
It’s October and I got a question. What is a good horror book (series) that matches these qualities?:
-A mainly werewolf-themed series(no vampires)
-Mostly horror, along with a little sense of humor, and some romance(none of that Twilight-related garbage)
-a monster mythology that focuses generally on werewolves, and maybe some ghosts, witches, and warlocks
-Keeping things with the traditional werewolf lore, such as death by silver, transformation reversed or blocked by wolfsbane, uncontrollable transformation from the full moon, and werewolves looking like actually werewolves(not regular wolves, Lon Chaney lookalikes, or a bunch of shirtless underwear model-wannabes like in Twilight or the Teen Wolf show)
Vampires came from Slavic Mythology.
Damn. Yesterday, when you said "tomorrow" you weren't kidding. I thought you meant like 9 am or something.
You can see his excitement dripping from the video
Oh I did. Thanks TH-cam.
"for children" should not be a badge of shame. Fairy tails are bose and lots of the best story's that ring the most true are for "children"
Wasn’t the hobbit for children?
Even fairy tales weren't for children for more than one generation.
Tolkien touches on this in his essay On Fairy Stories! Very interesting and I definitely agree!
“When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” - CS Lewis
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK
Everyone remembers Bram Stoker's "Dracula", but most people ignore or don't know about the much earlier "The Vampyr" by Polidori (which was written at the same spooky writing session as Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein").
A video like this must have taken a lot of academic research, and we the community appreciate it!!!
Hopefully it was a labour of love.
You sir, have earned my 'Thumbs Up'
"I don't know if I'm saying that right, I'm dyslexic as shyt" made me spit some of my tea, just a lil. Hahaha! This must have required SO MUCH DANG RESEARCH, DAYUM. Super rad, dude. :D
I wrote a college paper on how fantasy actually created real world influence. The big example is that California is named after Calafia, an amazonian queen in a Spanish adventure novel popular at the time of the exploration. In the story the amazonians ride griffins, and that's why a griffin was the mascot and logo of my college.
I think mythology also has a HUGE influence on fantasy. Fighting monsters with swords and voyages against magical beings.
He mentioned stories like Beowulf, he doesn’t need to mention The Iliad, the Epic of Gilgamesh, The Odyssey, Metamorphoses, Aeneid, Waltharius, Táin Bó Cúailnge. It’s not a video on epics, I think we get the desired picture.
Being epic is a quality of a fantasy stories. Epic genre don't exist...
Daniel should have at least mencioned Gilgamesh and Odissey...
@@Xobik1 Gilgamesh👏needs👏 to 👏be👏 talked 👏about !
I got a Question. What are some really good and recommended examples of a High Fantasy series that has these qualities?:
-A fantasy world that is its own mythology
-Epic fight scenes and wars
-Intense magic battles
-A hugely expanded magic system
-The archetypical hero’s journey
-Dragons, Unicorns, Griffins, Sea Monsters, Phoenixes, and other known mythical beasts
-Stunningly beautiful and smart female characters and love interests
-Romantic story arcs that involve love and sex
-Conflicts involving politics
-Political/Social themes of conservatism but without getting too preachy or controversial for the readers
-Themes and elements and faith and religion
-Spiritual and psychological themes
-Elves, Dwarves, Goblins, Ghouls, Vampires, Merfolk, Fairies, Centaurs, and other non-human races
-Different languages that are spoken by non-human languages
-A feared and all-powerful dark lord who is after the main hero
-the archetypal wise wizard
-a community of wizards and sorceresses
-Dark themes of tragedy, corruption, betrayal, and genocide
-A tone that turns into being dark and gritty while always being mature from the start
-Characters that are realistic and relatable in personality
-Light and positive themes of faith, love, friendship, loyalty, honor, sacrifice and optimism
Dude. I can feel the energy and your immense passion for fantasy in this video. Thank you always for your efforts and I'm always looking forward to your content!
You jumped over Lord Dansany, who was actually the first person to use the word "phantasy" for his writings. His Pegana was a huge influence on Silmarilion
Well, Lord Dunsany and his world of Pegana was also a great influence on Tolkien and I would argue that it was full blown Fantasy, and it was published in 1905 (The Gods of Pegana, that is). Also, it is impossible to talk about the origin of fantasy and not mention the Epic of Gilgamesh
Any "history of fantasy" that omits Lord Dunsany is one that can't be taken seriously. Come to think of it, any "history of fantasy" that omits the vast influence Robert Howard had on the genre, ignores landmark works like the Dying Earth, or landmark characters like Fafhrd and The Gray Mouser or Elric of Melnibone' is one that can't be taken seriously.
Lord Dunsany was the Tokien before Tolkien. He was a popular writer and a true renaissance man. Soldier, chess player (invented his own variation on the game) big game hunter, playwright, fantasist. William Morris created the first fully fictional world, Dunsany took it to the next level with two books: the aforementioned Gods of Pegana and Time and the Gods. The first recounts the creation of the world by the gods, the second focus on the humans in that world. Sound familiar? It should because Tolkien would later follow that exact same pattern in The Silmarillion. Dunsany also had a good sense of wry humour that makes his works feel timeless and somewhat modern. And he's a better story teller than Tolkien by far. After Dunsany comes Tolkien, who took world building to the next level, as Dunsany's Pegana could be nebulous and dreamlike. Not only that, but Tolkien brings European influence back into the picture as a lot of fantastical tales in Dunsany's time looked to the Orient to elicit a sense of mystery and the exotic.
HP Lovecraft's entire Dream Cycle was him trying to do Lord Dunsany. Neil Gaiman's "Stardust" was essentially a love letter to Dunsanian fantasy (and yes, Dunsany was big enough and unique enough to have a style named after him)
My favorite aspect about the "Fantasy" & "Sci-Fi" genres is the reason why Brandon Sanderson says he writes in them. Those 2 "genres" are more like settings as they can and often do encompass overlap almost every other genre. You want a political action adventure story? You want a grim-dark romance story? You want a murder mystery story? They can all be found in Fantasy/Sci-Fi.
Yes! So glad you mentioned the serial fantasy magazines! Did a paper about how they shaped the genre! ❤️ And now how creepypasta and stuff is our new fairytales.
Awesome video - Thanks man!
Incredible, how you can talk 18 minutes about this topic, and there is still so much more to say about it. You could probably dedicate a whole channel just around this topic!
The real question is of course: how many T-shirts did Daniel wear?
Remember when he had his pants in his socks?
and are his socks in the wash
@@iulia5677 Oh yeah I was so focused on that I completely forgot to watch the video hihi
Thank you Daniel for reminding me. Doc Savage and Perry Rhodan books were my entry into reading as an adolescent. Kitschy enough to be fun and short enough to get through. Gotta dig up one of them old Doc Savage's.
They fall in your epic poem bit, but I'd say the Iliad and the Odyssey are definitely part of this evolution. Of course, there's a sidenote ofc on religion and whether the Olympians were fantastical or not to the people back then. But I mean, the Odyssey in particular is a travel quest with witches and monsters. As are the trials of Hercules in general (and many other mythological stories).
Was going to mention The Iliad & The Odyssey too. Wherever we look, legends and myths have been the forefront of fantasy always. Norway, Germany, the Balkans, all throughout Asia and Africa.. got to agree with Daniel on the importance of the fantastical for people throughout history.
Just have to say I'm kinda glad your taking a break from reading this video was awesome AND it will give me a chance to catch up on my TBR pile without your reviews adding more to it. Thank you for sharing your views and passion for the fantasy genre.
I have a PhD in medieval lit and love fantasy. You did an awesome job covering a lot of territory accurately, clearly, and in under 20 minutes. Impressive!
That song at the beginning sounds disturbingly close to Hymn of Fayth from Final Fantasy X LOL.
I open the vid I see this comment...
I PRAISE YU YEVON 🙌
I'm glad you commented because I knew I recognized it but didn't know what it was and it was driving me insane
Lol I thought so too! Praise be to Yevon
Glad im not the only one who noticed.
Yeah, that's was my first reaction too!
Relevant book: "Tales Before Tolkien" / Douglas A Anderson. A collection of those "fairy tales" that influenced later fantasy writing, starting in the early 19th century.
Daniel couldn’t wait until his normal time to release a video with this one, that’s how we know he’s proud of it.
One of your best videos IMO, Daniel. The hard work paid off! This kind of content, the deeper dives, is my favorite stuff. And of course great use of the Greene Screene.
Tolkien did do original stuff especially around the creation of language, hobbits and making a world so detailed there's books about its plants.
It was groundbreaking to make a whole mythology and then produce widely read stories from it
Great video. I appreciate the examples you pull from, but would love to see a deeper dive into a lot left out. Specifically around the influence of Epic Poems and ancient text across the world (Ovid, Apuleius, Vedic Mythology, One Thousand and One Arabian Nights, et. al.), Plato, Chaucer, Sir Gawain, Mary Shelley (in Gothic Horror), etc.
I really enjoyed this video! Would love to see more of this kind of thing. So interesting to get to the roots of where certain genres really started.
William Morris was writing and publishing historical romances and fantasies in his Oxford and Cambridge Magazine in 1856, two years before MacDonald's Phantastes.
I think it might be more accurate to say "English fantasy" then "Western fantasy", as different things were going on in French, German, Norwegian, etc. at this time.
And hybrid- and non-European cultures were common-place in fantasy; (Lord Dunsany, Robert E. Howard, Clark Ashton Smith, Edgar Rice Burroughs, etc.), long before Tolkien committed the word "Hobbit" to print.
This opens up so many avenues for discussion and I love it. We can talk about the 2 streams of Fantasy, "Sword and Sorcery" and Tolkien "Epic Fantasy"; we can talk mythology like the Enuma Elish, we can talk Science Fantasy like The Book of the New Sun or Dune. So much to talk about, so much content. Ah Daniel you mad lad, this is exciting just thinking about the possibilities. I hope authors chime in from time to time too. Thank you for giving me much to think about. Especially Romanticism which I hadn't considered deeply.
The key bit of Athurian stuff is the Mabinogion, medieval welsh literiture, check out one of the translations, its amazing!
I feel like he was so proud of how this turned out to be that he had zero patience to post it 😂 but it is pretty interesting and awesome
Love how the music is edited in to match the timeline. Good job Daniel!!
Really enjoyed this video. Your passion for literature and fantasy especially really shines through in these types of videos. Keep up the hard work ✌️
Thanks for taking the time to put this all together, it was really interesting 😊
The only TH-camr brave enough to not hide his feet behind a paywall.
I feel like The Wizard of Oz gets left out of these conversations alot but was a huge entry in the early Fantasy genre
King giving us such golden content that Jasnah Kholin would expect you to know all the Greene Lore
This was awesome. Such a huge part of our history and this perspective was really interesting, only wish it was longer with even more details
I think this is your best scripted video (YA videos are close contenders)
It’s obviously taken a lot of work to produce & research and I found it extremely enjoyable. Hope other appreciate it too
As always, another great video. Great information, well rounded exploration of it, visually enjoyable, fun script, and an interesting topic for fantasy nerds of all ages. 👏👏👏
This has been awesome and I feel like I will definitely rewatch this. I want this to hit me a few times before I move on.
Thank you.
That's probably my favourite videos of yours (that I've watched, I'm still kinda new here :P). It was insanely interesting! Loved that you talked about how fascinating the human psyche is, I absolutely agree and that's why I love literature so much!
I'll never not appreciate a surprise Rich Evans.
Great work! I love this historical content!
I do have to say that you probably should have mentioned theater/opera, because especially operas have had a HUGE influence on the genre in many ways people don't realize. :) Richard Wagner's Ring of the Nibelung would look very familiar to Tolkien readers, and of course much of Shakespeare has fantastical elements. :)
I think that the importance of opera should be mentioned, mozarts the magic flute and then wagners ring cycle amongst others of course.
I took a class on fantasy and had to read several epics before building up to LOTR, so at least my professor is definitely arguing that epics were the earliest forms of fantasy (well the hero’s quest specifically)
Which Tolkein drew from heavily particularly Norse and Die Niebelungenleid. Dont have to go much farther than the Dwarven names and ironically Gandalf was a dwarf.
I don't agree. The epics like the illiad were stories that people believed were real history at the time. It was not fantasy from the perspective of the writer or original audience. The Aenied comes close as people knew it was fiction at the time but it was not written to be enternaining literature it was written as political propoganda for the Roman empire.
I was referring to Gilgamesh and Beowulf.
@@sarahconnor4883 People didn't believe in gilgamesh and beowulf at the time they were written?
These are probably my favorite Danial Greene videos. The green screen educational/rant. The YA fantasy ones were the first ones I watched that got me to subscribe to the channel. Hearing all the amazing stories that came before in fantasy just makes me all the more inspired to write great fantasy, and to make it even more unique. I think as a writer it can be hard to go more unique because you're told by modern publishing that that won't sell, and while all us writers want to write our stories to be amazing, we also really wanna be sold. Excited for when we get a video on the history sci/fantasy! I know a lot less on the sci-fi side and would be really interested to learn more!
Absolutely amazing video! So worth the wait! Actually I learnt a lot from this, thank you. And I always love a good doctor cameo❤️
Never heard that hot take at the end before: 'Take any story, and add fantastical elements if/where you need to amp it up.' I also love the perspective that Fantasy uses extreme (impossible, unbelievable etc.) fiction to make great commentary on the real world. That's what I try to do in my writing... with a light hand. Thanks Daniel!
These kind of videos are the ones I will definetly come back to, as well as use for my class. I especially enjoyed this one as fantasy is my favourite genre and you have done it so well and worded it so it is really easy to remember these things later on
Thanks for my Birthday gift.♥️. Amount of effort is appreciated.
Great job Daniel. You obviously out tons of work and research into making this video and it came out amazing.
Daniel! I've read WoT in my teenage years right up to the slog and gave up. You have given me faith. I've started repurchasing the WoT series to reread it. I loved it pre-slog. I want to say to you, thank you for what you do. Nerds of all kinds struggled in the early days. It's awesome to see them stand so tall, and be so proud.
I appreciate the work that went into this show - like you said, you are barely scratching the surface. I hope there will be more content like this coming and that some of your debates will feature controversy about where fantasy has been and where it's going. One quibble - if you are going to talk about history, you should *always* cite your sources. Watch The History Guy to see how it can be done unobtrusively.
Daniel Greene with an excellent Greene screene video at night?? Yes to that!!
"We will not go back to campfire stuff.
Proceeds anyway to go back as far as to Arthurian legends and Beowulf.
Lots of love man. I love your videos ;)
5am in the UK. Good to see you hear 😂
Wonderful video! A couple minor corrections: John Polidori’s The Vampyre (written at the same time as Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein) is much older than Bram Stoker’s version. William Morris’s first fantasy was not The Wood Beyond the World. He wrote quite a few, but The House of the Wolfings was the first. You are correct that George McDonald preceded Morris by decades, but I would argue that Morris was a bigger influence on Tolkien. It’s great to see you bringing more attention to the history of the genre!
Man I love these genre history videos. The SciFi one was also great.
I'm glad that you immediately identified the Chosen One as our savior, Rich Evans.
I would love to see you make a massive hour-long deep dive into the history of fantasy
Great video, Daniel. I would like to point out how important “Castle of Otranto” by Horace Walpole is to the Gothic genre, fantasy, and modern horror. Not to get too deep, as it would need a whole paper, but Otranto set up the haunted “alive” hous/castle trope, romance within horror, found documents trope, secret tunnels, and cursed families/individuals. Much of this obviously influenced Stoker and many, and I mean many, gothic literature that came after. We can see direct influence even all the way up to Steven King today.
Love this video!!! Learned a whole lot than in my school days!!!!! Looking forward to your next genre history (and hopefully horror?)!!!!!
What an outstanding video. A work of art! I have been following you for quite a while. I have witnessed your evolvement over time. This video by far is your best yet. Videos like this one bring your imagination and intelligence to the forefront. Thank you for being you. Stay safe and healthy.
This has to be one of the top Daniel Greene videos!
You really stepped up with the sound effects! I love it!
Mary Shelley's Frankenstein was written before Bram Stoker's Dracula. One would argue, that she popularized the gothic story... But awesome video, my man. Keep doing what you're doing. You have a bigger impact, than you think.
By Frankenstein the gothic genre was old hat. Gothic was popular well before Frankenstein. Shelley's story was a throwback with a science twist.
Gardner Dozois essays on the subject of the evolution of the fantasy genre are worth the read if you have not already done so.
You mentioned magazines and John Carter briefly. I consider that a pretty key period in the transition from fairytales to fantasy and even Dickens was being publish as a pulp serial.
Good video.
Very entertaining, engaging, and super informative!!!! The hard work you put into this is very apparent, thank you for this
Nice work. Even relatively brief, this was an excellent overview of the fantasy history.
Oh, just a little video about THE HISTORY OF THE FANTASY GENRE! Great video as always!!!
If you havent read it, the castle of Otranto is a WILD ride! It very much focuses on my favorite part of gothic literature: creepy eerie tone where there is a "monster" but the real monsters are people. It's a weird book but incredible!
The Walpoles at it again! (Horace Walpole author of Castle of Otranto, son of the infamous Robert Walpole)
Walpole Facts are universal
On a long enough timeline, all history is just Walpole.
The Walpoles strike again.
I have been waiting for a video like this in years... Thanks Daniel!
Editing leveled up! One tiny glitch at 10 min mark made me think was my comp dying hehe. But in General so good bro!
I would LOVE video about the similarities and differences between sci fi and fantasy, and how they come together
This is awesome! If I remember correctly Bram Stoker didn’t create the vampire, the first vampire was Nosferatu and Dracula wasn’t even that big of a thing when it first got put out but everything else is awesome!
That's a DAMN PRO video, I'd say! Very interesting and well done. Keep up the good work, mr. Greene. Greetings from far-away Greece.
Great video! Must have been so much work, but it turned out awesome!
It would have been interesting to see you discuss the explosion of YA fantasy in recent years, because I feel like that'll prove significant to the genre too.
Very interesting. I find deep dive videos always enjoyable. Though all I could think about after 12:40 was if a video can get demonetized if the word f*** is shown in huge letters behind Daniel. Also why he did that while talking about Lewis. Great video as always Daniel.
While narnia may not be perfect it’s still how I came into fantasy
Perhaps my favorite video you've done! Sums it all up so well!
Great video, I love it. Now I feel some type of nostalgia about the early almost medieval written books you mentioned. I will search for them because I want to read them.
Woah.
This is awesome. 10/10 I’m here for this.
Used to love the Princesses and the Goblin the animated film as a kid. I had know idea the the book it was based off had a claim as one of the first fantasy books ever! Very cool, thank you man.
Damn I love fantasy and I love your channel. This was a great video. Around-the-fire-story-time? That's how it felt watching this. I declare myself heart-warmed.
Always look forward to another fantasy video!
Really appreciate your hardwork and research! can't wait for your next videos. But don't forget to take care of yourself and take a break off of social media once in a while. Just to enjoy the world around you. Good job on this!
Robert E Howard was one of the most influential writers for the fantasy genre.
The weapons in your videos started with a kitchen knife and have evolved to a bonafide sword. At this rate it won't be long before you're wielding comically-large weapons like those seen in Monster Hunter/Final Fantasy/World of Warcraft.
Is this the highly-anticipated video he mentioned earlier?
Tolkien wrote an essay on fairy stories, where he briefly goes into both the history of the genre as well as what specific values he sees fantasy imparting to the reader. Good, instructive read.