Chinese companies like retroid and ayn always have issues getting their new device to everyone's doorstep with every release so it's really refreshing to hear someone call them out instead of making a million posts on reddit.
I am DYING for a company to release a flavor of Linux/SteamOS on a handheld. The worst part about DIYing it yourself is dealing with the weird bugs with buttons or the screen or whatever, so having a vetted version by the manufacturer would be 👌 Also, Ayaneo walked back their statement again regarding HoloISO. The Next Lite is just shipping with Windows now. I think they're still offering a vetted version of HoloISO that you can download for those who want to install it themselves though.
I had a similar experience with my preorder. I don't have Bob's patience and eventually just refunded and they tried to charge me a $22 fee for cancellation when they couldn't fill my specific order. Never again with this company.
Yeah, Chinese companies are frustratingly flippant and exploitative when it comes to western consumers. If any little thing goes wrong, they'll do anything to blame you and make sure they still get their buck. If you put a big American company between them and yourself though, you can turn the script on that exchange real fast.
One of the dangers with pre-orders when it was announced I’m sure it made sense. picked up a used 64gb steam deck from GameStop for $235 + tax a few weeks back. Pretty sure the steam deck has at least $6 more worth of performance.
@@CrumpetsNBiscuits Because sales tax is calculated from quite a few factors, and the end determination comes down to your shipping address (county tax, state tax, etc). This is why you really only ever see tax at the final stage of checkout.
The idea that reviewers give full disclosure on their relationship with these companies is a level of integrity I appreciate. Beyond that. I bought the Odin1 pro black Friday past. No issues. Got it in 2 weeks. Im happy with it until I realize the play store is lacking compared to steam and Nintendo. But live and learn.
It makes absolute sense why other devices are not getting Steam OS yet. If an underpowered device that had Steam OS branding on, failed to run games that were certified to run on Steam OS, Valve would be the ones to get it in the neck. I expect Valve in the future will either have a minimum required spec (like they did with Steam Machines), or a certified hardware program to ensure when they say a game will run on Steam OS, it always will. I suspect companies like Ayn would struggle to keep up with the quality demands Valve would require in such a scenario, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.
I immediately thought that when thinking about future budget handhelds getting steam os. It just isn't a good idea when stuff like persona 5 royal and Asphalt 9 are deck-verified. BUT it would be a perfect option to play 8 and 16-bit style Steam games and potentially get way better battery life.
This is why I watch bob. Highlight the actual process he goes through and explains when he’s getting special treatment. Not many other reviewers would be this in depth on the pain.
Even at $224 I couldn't justify this device. I would rather pay that for the original Odin and have more games run better at the end of the day. Sure I can't play old windows games but I would rather emulate better than have more compatibility at that point. Odin 2 Pro plays everything like a dream for $300. At least everything that runs on Android.
The craziest part about this situation is the fact that it was the indegogo pre-order, I waited until the Loki Zero was actually on sale by AYN from their website. $250 (+$40 for shipping) and a week later it was at my doorstep
Additionally, you don’t need a keyboard and mouse for the bios, holding L+R shoulders at the same time for about a second will get the device to vibrate, this means it’ll switch the button layout from controller to keyboard. You can use the d-pad as arrow keys and x as enter. I use this specifically because I keep windows for indie games or steam streaming from my PC and I keep Jelos on the sd card for great emulation performance (ps2 /psp plays pretty well, some switch games are playable but things like BotW will struggle)
I saved up for an bought a GPD Win 4 7840, 64GB RAM, and 4TB SSD in November. It was painstaking to get the device from payment online to my doorstep. I love it and I get to play World of Warcraft on my couch and laying in Bed, and when I need to do high stakes group content, I dock it into my setup. I used Droix, which have great sales year round, and okay customer service, but it is still daunting to drop that much money on something. I want a magnifier for the screen like they had for the gameboy, and maybe better grips, but man it is a marvel to play WoW on high settings at 60 fps in group content in my hands. The kid in me is shook every time I boot it up.
My golden standard for handheld PC's will always be the steam deck oled. The amazing screen quality, the ergonomics no other handheld has, and the amazing battery life makes it worth it. When the steam deck 2 comes out the SD oled will likely get cheaper and become way more affordable. Steam Deck Oled was the best handheld from last year.
yup the thing that sold me on the Steam Deck is a lot of newer games are optimized specifically for that device. It feels more like a console experience than a PC experience.
This is one of my favorite videos of yours. I love hearing about general thoughts pertaining to the space and the process around these devices as opposed to just narrowly focused reviews on a single device.
The secret sauce of steam deck is the pre-caching shaders, I'm interested to know if Holo OS version does this. If not then windows with big picture mode is the way to go
You get this on any Linux PC. Steam preloads Vulkan shaders on Linux, actually on Windows too, but since pretty much every game uses Vulkan on Linux it benefits more.
@stevenpledger6163 Every game on Linux has to use Vulkan because DirectX isn't supported on Linux (or is it DirectX doesn't support Linux? Hmm not sure regardless it doesn't work on Linux :P) All games ran on Linux are either native Vulkan or are translated to Vulkan from DirectX.
Just want to highlight the value of reviewers like you, I get so sick of reviewers positively reviewing something and paying no attention to the company's support or treatment of customers itself, need reviews like yours to balance it out, honest and no bs.
That was a terrible buying experience. Almost makes me appreciate my Analogue Pocket buying experience. Almost. I have a Steam Deck, an Analogue Pocket and a Switch OLED. Those devices have been amazing and each device compliments the other. If I am able to get some disposable income in this crazy economy, I would love to pick up an Ayn Loki Zero for my Neo Geo games and Indie games in my Amazon Prime Games account. This would be an easy way to actually be able to play those games on the go and they should be able to play perfectly on this device and it would be a great way to stream my Xbox Games and for Xbox Game Pass streaming. Thanks for the video. BTW it looks like the 8GB RAM Loki Zero with 128 GB storage is $248.00 as of 1/28/24.
I'm happy to see some low-cost PC handhelds, and I think this one at least supports dual-channel RAM, so that's a small positive point relative to the Win 600. That said, I'm pretty happy with my GPD Win Mini for PC games and an RP3+ plus for Android games, with a bit of emulation on both.
Okay, so my thoughts. 1) Chips Challenge was hella fun back in the day. Portable one though? I'm in. About to bust out my widows Vista Laptop to play. 2) I personally don't mind when TH-cam review channels such as yours get free things to review, as long as there is a a disclaimer that you did and you're unbiased when you do review it, which you usually are, and we're all thankful Bob. 3) Thank you for bringing into consideration the shipping hassle because that is also part of the process which a lot of people seem to forget. 4) So. Many. Options.
Honestly buying experience highly depends on what region you are in. I saw many videos where people from Canada and USA complained that it takes months to get things from Ali and in Russia, in my experience, it usually takes about 2-3 weeks. Plus it depends on where are you buying, what shiping are you choosing and etc. It is a thing that is worth mentioning, but imo it is not worth to dedicate too much time to it because this experience will differ so much from person to person.
I just wanted to say that I have always had issues with AYN, and I am glad you brought this up. I bought the first AYN Odin Pro and the lite and the delays and cancellations were ridiculous and I simply cancelled and purchased my devices from resellers on eBay for a higher price and yes, I did so willingly, but I would rather deal with someone responsive and with B.S. but it will still be better than the B.S. AYN gave out. To this day I simply bought a Loki Zero from eBay for 200 flat and the seller was a wonderful person, no hassle. I wanted to get my hands on a Loki Max or Mini Pro but I'll wait till I see a deal on eBay or something. Shameful.
8 seconds in and watching you lower your chair already had me hitting the like button. You are too good of a content creator the world doesnt deserve you but I am sure glad you exist
I bought myself a Loki Zero (8Gb Ram Version) and i set the Bios to have 1GB V-Ram. It is somewhat capable to run Skyrim with around 30 FPS (32 Bit Version, i prefer it because of the Steam Workshop). And more demanding Titles i stream from my bigger PC via Steam. But my most Use is as a small PC on my TV for TH-cam or if i'm playing Switch to quickly google something up. Yes i could use an Android TV Box or just my Smartphone but i was courious because i love the handheld formfactor. And something like a xbox or PS was/is a No-Go because i just don't want to have huge things standing around. So jeah, i like my Loki Zero, even if it has not experienced a lot of gaming. And i think this is a usecase where this device (even though there are other and cheaper solutions for my usecase) has a useful case in this world.
I really appreciate that you did cover your actual purchase experience. That sounds super frustrating. I do wonder if a regular consumer wouldn't have the same issues, because they wouldn't forget so easily vs someone who covers tons of handhelds, but I can't fault you for that. They really should have done better to reach out to you about the issues. On the "Where is SteamOS" side of things, I do believe that Valve will release an ISO for it. Eventually. They operate on Valve Time, and honestly, I am a little glad they do. Watching them hold the sale of the Steam Deck Dock because the software wasn't ready, even though they had the hardware in their warehouses ready to ship, tells me that they have learned from past experiences and want it to be a good experience for everyone who uses it. Yes, there is also the licensing issue, but I would guess that a bigger issue is nVidia driver support. And I don't think we will see other handhelds, even AMD handhelds get SteamOS support from Valve until they can sort things out with nVidia and basically having a generic installer for all systems so that it is a good experience. I remember when SteamOS 1.0 released, and you had to have a very specific setup for it to work, and it sucked. They did eventually make it better, but not by much. So I would guess they will wait until they have improved the experience, because that is what is going to keep people on or going back to SteamOS, the experience. If it is a poor experience, people will just install Windows. From what I understand, most people like SteamOS on the Deck and keep it. Some do go into installing Windows on it, but most seem content. I know plenty who stream from a Windows PC to it for games they can't run, but others will play what they can on it and leave it at that.
I've had so many bad experiences with these types of handheld now. Only one that was good was the steam deck itself. Gpd quality assurance absolutely sucks so just a warning for everyone.
I'm still interested in the Loki Zero mainly because of my love for indies (and that price tag), but the way they handled the announcement and release of the Lokis was ridiculous. It just makes me glad that I don't pre-order anything, at all.
I've been seeing myself going back to the Ayn website and seriously considering the Zero...the price is good, the performance is good enough for the retro gaming I do (rarely go past PSP/ 64) and it's still a freakin' Windows PC for when I'm not retro gaming. Could easily replace my huge laptop when I'm on the road. For the money, i just seems like it's perfect FOR ME. It's definitely not for everyone, but it does have it's uses. By all means keep on adding the buying experience in your videos Bob, this is the reality of it: we're almost all the time dealing with ordering these contraptions from another country altogether than the one we live in and it might not always go as smoothly as we'd like it to. I'm buying from China over 20 years now both for business and for pleasure, it's gotten MUCH better over the years, but it's still not as good as buying from Amazon for instance. Crap happens, and it's not always so easy to fix if a mistake happens. YMMV of course, but it's something you need to be aware of before diving in.
This hardware isn't even enough to run WIndows comfortably. More than 2 browser tabs will bring it to a screeching halt. Great if you can find a use case for it but 4GB RAM just can't cut it
I think it's fine for reviewers to get things for free to review as long as the reviewer is upfront about it. As long as you give your honest thoughts and opinions you're a good reviewer in my book. Like how you did this video.
Whether or not you feel like being given review units influences is irrelevant: you can't "control" for bias in your review process if the product was provided or you didn't order it 'anonymously'. So you can still have a good video review and piece of content, but it's absolutely subjective and no objectivity can be claimed because you can no longer control for bias. That means nothing to most people, but I don't think anyone is surprised that yours is not a clinical or laboratory review operation - doesn't seem to be the vibe you're going for. =) That said, I really enjoy this video and take it as one data point in a much, much larger ecosystem of handhelds and their reviewers. Thank you and have a good one.
What I take from this video, and my own experiences, is that technical infrastructure can bury issues far from the people who care to make it right. It's part of consumerism, it will happen to everyone eventually. All you can do is keep pushing help, reaching out to different sources.
The buying process is the number one reason why I pretty much exclusively buy my handhelds on Amazon. Yes, I might be spending more than I would've otherwise and there's likely devices that aren't available on Amazon (and thus I wouldn't be able to get), but the buying (and shipping) process is dramatically easier. There's basically no BS involved.
I love my Odin Lite. It is my most used device by far, only behind my phone. I stream my pc and consoles to it. I emulate on it. It feels like a quality product made by a reputable company. But when my wife ordered it for me as a gift, she did tell me that the website/order process gave her scam concerns. She said she almost didn’t get because she felt something was off and site/order process felt shady. But I actually use more than my steam deck due to weighing much less and being smaller to transport.
Been loving my retroid pocket 4 not only because I have been able to play pretty much every game up to ps2 but game streaming on a lil pocketable device is sweet
Yeah I really appreciate getting into the buying experience. Especially as time goes on, it's something we take for granted and shining light on customer service is a big deal for me now
Mainly wanted a portable PC handheld to play PS2 games at the highest resolution the device can handle. Everything else it can handle is a bonus for me. Gran Turismo 3 and 4 aren't compatible with my phone so it still looks like the Steam Deck is still the way to go.
I don't know where I am this team deck is $400 more and if you do some tweaking with the CPU in that it might be able to outperform the steam deck in like one game
Thank you for suffering though this experience for us. I've considered backing multiple handhelds over the course of the last couple years but never pulled the trigger because in the end I just didn't trust the companies. I ended up waiting for my 2021 preorder for the OG steam deck and had zero regrets. I then bought the OLED deck fall 2022 and love it. Now I feel comfortable with my current handhelds until there's a significant processor generational leap. But i love watching videos of new ones that come out to keep up with the tech.
I ordered a Loki day one, haven’t received a refund or a product, not even an email reply to all my messages since 2022… hate to see it but it was a learning experience, no more preorders from companies that have no local reputation to uphold
I really want valve to release SteamOS for anyone to just install on their hardware if they want. I have ChimeraOS on my Win Max 2, and its amazing, but it does lack some functionality in the performance overlay, replaced by their own homemade overlay. Its totally functional, but I still wish I could just put fully functional SteamOS straight from valve on it.
Another reason why the big dogs (asus, lenovo, steam) have a huge one up with selling either direct from the US or just from Best Buy AND having stock in store!
Yup, getting any of these devices sucks big time. I would love to see a video about returning a device with problems. How long does it take, do they give you problems, etc.
As a dad of 4 with already 2 switches and 2 steam decks and 3 gaming laptops, I would get this for the purpose of playing..psp and under emulation station, 4 player Dreamcast action, and ps1 gaming.
My Loki came DOA, told AYN and they said take it apart and look and see if the screen is touching a screw. They told me to completely disassemble and put a strip of tape over it. Two weeks later my Aya Neo Next failed and was less than a year old. I didn’t hear anything back from Aya. I don’t recommend these Chinese handhelds at all.
I'd be interested to see your attempts to learn about steamos distros and a bit more testing of how they perform on those low end devices. I know there are other creators with a bit more of a technical focus doing that already. I hope this doesn't sound snarky but I think you'd be a good representation of what the process is like for a normal person. It's useful perspective when recommending something like that to a friend
I really think the only way Windows-based handhelds can compete with Steam Deck is if Microsoft finally takes notice and makes an excellent Win11 Handheld Mode like they leaked a couple years ago. Asking Microsoft to make great gaming software for Windows is a tall order, though.
I will note I was one of also one of the poor souls who Ordered the Loki Mini, to then be upgraded to the Loki Mini Pro Intel for free, paid for the CPU and memory upgrades since those were addon SKUs for the Mini Pro at the time, to then be downgraded back to the Loki Mini Pro AMD, I was refunded my addon upgrade SKUs. I did finally get my Loki Mini Pro and have Chimera OS running on it for the Steam OS experience. The Loki Zero and the Loki Mini Pro are generations apart when it comes to the CPU Cores and the GPU built in them, not being a bottom run 7000th series CPU, it can't perform close enough to the Steam Deck proper. The Loki Mini Pro ended up being a single batch production, they didnt sell enough to minimum order requirements, and killed off the other skus offering them as either free or paid upgrades. In the end they still ended up with just a few left over which they sold on the site for $350 (up from their original asking price of $299) after the initial orders were fulfilled then removed it from the site altogether.
This is the issue the amount off different specs for ppl new to emulation puts them off i bet they need to streamline the buying process imo, great video Bob.
I don’t mind y’all getting review units for free. It helps. But you should do a Durability test afterwards. Like give it to a toddler or a 5 year old on a trampoline 😂
I love my Loki Zero as it fills a niche I've been searching years for; a modestly-sized handheld running Windows that can play lightweight indie games and visual novels. That said, I can't honestly recommend it unless someone's in the same boat as I was. It's a very underpowered handheld that can only do so much. I gotta' figure most folks are gonna' want something more contemporary, which the Loki Zero most certainly is not.
thanks for pointing out the problems you had with the buying process. Even if it's rare, it *does* happen, and it'simportant to hold companies to account when they screw around.. The prices they're asking for it isn't bad at all for a slightly beefier RG3511 replacement. Slap SteamOS on it and go. But if you order it and it vanishes into the aether......
Picked up a Loki Max (I think?) when they were on sale for black friday for about $300 as a gift. It outpaces my steamdeck and keeps up with my Ally better than I would have expected, but its a finicky device. I probably won't buy anything else from AYN again, but for $300 it's pretty nice.
This sounds like the typical "Someone at the company screwed up your order and no one has any idea who to send the issue to because management is almost non-existent so your case just gets thrown around until someone on the upper level gets wind of it". As someone who's worked in support, I am all too familiar with these types of situations. The person who saw your tweet probably follows you, realized it would be bad for the company and thought they too would be pissed if they were in your situation and decided to post it in the discord so someone on a higher level would see it quickly. It's unlikely it would happen to you again if you bought from them, but it never really feels good when it happens initially. They should really work on a system for where to go if something like this were to happen.
Windows on a handheld looks like a painful experience. I'm going to stick with my steam deck until Microsoft builds an OS stripped down to the bare essentials for a handheld environment. (Which will never happen.) I do think Valve may eventually begin partnering with hardware manufacturers to ship other steam OS handhelds, but only after this new market settles. Valve isn't going to let another manufacturer tie themselves to their brand until they're a proven player. Aya has no shot, but maybe a company like Asus or MSI if they commit to the handheld gaming space.
Love the review and sharing your pain in the whole process.. though I spent about 3 seconds each time, looking for which devices I've plugged or unplugged...
First off, LOVE the videos just found your channel today. 2nd'ly how exactly do you capture that 2011 7d mark 2 vibes in every video, asking for a friend. ?
I fully support future rant videos about bad ordering experiences. Bob rants as good as anyone without it being his whole personality. $11 shakedown 😅
Chinese companies like retroid and ayn always have issues getting their new device to everyone's doorstep with every release so it's really refreshing to hear someone call them out instead of making a million posts on reddit.
Your support means nothing because you are a nobody.
I am DYING for a company to release a flavor of Linux/SteamOS on a handheld. The worst part about DIYing it yourself is dealing with the weird bugs with buttons or the screen or whatever, so having a vetted version by the manufacturer would be 👌
Also, Ayaneo walked back their statement again regarding HoloISO. The Next Lite is just shipping with Windows now. I think they're still offering a vetted version of HoloISO that you can download for those who want to install it themselves though.
I'm still waiting for you to start making Wii XLs for the masses, sir.
Hi Half--life man
I thought you loved installing SteamOS, I certainly love watching it.
Doing it yourself it yourself
Make more PS4 Linux videos funny man
I had a similar experience with my preorder. I don't have Bob's patience and eventually just refunded and they tried to charge me a $22 fee for cancellation when they couldn't fill my specific order. Never again with this company.
Son Two has so much patience he should have been a doctor!#wulffdendad
Yeah, Chinese companies are frustratingly flippant and exploitative when it comes to western consumers. If any little thing goes wrong, they'll do anything to blame you and make sure they still get their buck. If you put a big American company between them and yourself though, you can turn the script on that exchange real fast.
I absolutely love this style of review. The honesty, purchasing experience and realistic look at price to performance ratio was awesome.
Ey, it’s mr. Sujano! All stuff and no fluff :P
Enjoy your content❤
It's the all fluff and no stuff guy! >:D
It's the calm orange beard gaming news guy!
It's the don't the temp fate save your state guy! :O
@@HerEvilTwin hi madeline's evil twin
One of the dangers with pre-orders when it was announced I’m sure it made sense.
picked up a used 64gb steam deck from GameStop for $235 + tax a few weeks back.
Pretty sure the steam deck has at least $6 more worth of performance.
Not as compact.. which is the point
Good nab
But why you americans add the tax separately, it's misleading
@@CrumpetsNBiscuits Because sales tax is calculated from quite a few factors, and the end determination comes down to your shipping address (county tax, state tax, etc). This is why you really only ever see tax at the final stage of checkout.
@50086gt but size does matter. Some think the SD is too big.
Also, in general the more compact an electronic is.. the more you pay for sff
it has way more than 6$
The idea that reviewers give full disclosure on their relationship with these companies is a level of integrity I appreciate.
Beyond that. I bought the Odin1 pro black Friday past. No issues. Got it in 2 weeks. Im happy with it until I realize the play store is lacking compared to steam and Nintendo. But live and learn.
Most people who buy an Android handheld aren’t too worried about games you have to pay for.
@@scottgilbert3286 I'm new to the handheld world. The more I read and watch and the more I use what I have the better my next purchase will be.
It makes absolute sense why other devices are not getting Steam OS yet. If an underpowered device that had Steam OS branding on, failed to run games that were certified to run on Steam OS, Valve would be the ones to get it in the neck. I expect Valve in the future will either have a minimum required spec (like they did with Steam Machines), or a certified hardware program to ensure when they say a game will run on Steam OS, it always will.
I suspect companies like Ayn would struggle to keep up with the quality demands Valve would require in such a scenario, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.
I immediately thought that when thinking about future budget handhelds getting steam os. It just isn't a good idea when stuff like persona 5 royal and Asphalt 9 are deck-verified. BUT it would be a perfect option to play 8 and 16-bit style Steam games and potentially get way better battery life.
This is why I watch bob. Highlight the actual process he goes through and explains when he’s getting special treatment. Not many other reviewers would be this in depth on the pain.
Even at $224 I couldn't justify this device. I would rather pay that for the original Odin and have more games run better at the end of the day. Sure I can't play old windows games but I would rather emulate better than have more compatibility at that point. Odin 2 Pro plays everything like a dream for $300. At least everything that runs on Android.
Agreed. Odin 2 Pro is $370, Odin 2 is $300.
@@whoever_81 you’re right I was thinking of the base model.
I’m running so many switch games at 60 on the Odin 2 max. Once the emulator gets good, the device will be perfect
It can also emulate old pc games
Odin 2 can't play old PC titles?
The craziest part about this situation is the fact that it was the indegogo pre-order, I waited until the Loki Zero was actually on sale by AYN from their website. $250 (+$40 for shipping) and a week later it was at my doorstep
Additionally, you don’t need a keyboard and mouse for the bios, holding L+R shoulders at the same time for about a second will get the device to vibrate, this means it’ll switch the button layout from controller to keyboard. You can use the d-pad as arrow keys and x as enter.
I use this specifically because I keep windows for indie games or steam streaming from my PC and I keep Jelos on the sd card for great emulation performance (ps2 /psp plays pretty well, some switch games are playable but things like BotW will struggle)
The Loki was never on indigogo. That was the Odin 1 & 2. The Loki was a preorder for their website only.
the digits at 4:33 being filled with different 2023 games was a nice touch
I saved up for an bought a GPD Win 4 7840, 64GB RAM, and 4TB SSD in November. It was painstaking to get the device from payment online to my doorstep. I love it and I get to play World of Warcraft on my couch and laying in Bed, and when I need to do high stakes group content, I dock it into my setup.
I used Droix, which have great sales year round, and okay customer service, but it is still daunting to drop that much money on something. I want a magnifier for the screen like they had for the gameboy, and maybe better grips, but man it is a marvel to play WoW on high settings at 60 fps in group content in my hands. The kid in me is shook every time I boot it up.
My golden standard for handheld PC's will always be the steam deck oled. The amazing screen quality, the ergonomics no other handheld has, and the amazing battery life makes it worth it. When the steam deck 2 comes out the SD oled will likely get cheaper and become way more affordable. Steam Deck Oled was the best handheld from last year.
yup the thing that sold me on the Steam Deck is a lot of newer games are optimized specifically for that device. It feels more like a console experience than a PC experience.
@@comfybaguette That's what i like most about it. i never wanted to go through the hassle of settings up windows on a PC handheld.
@@ScrubsWasTaken yeah that’s def the prime advantage the steam deck has over the competitors. i’m willing to pay more for that ease of use
SD OLED cost 1k in my country
SD LCD 64gb is 549$
Shit r crazy here
@mgsan4702 treat yourself a holiday abroad and get a steam deck while you're there
This is one of my favorite videos of yours. I love hearing about general thoughts pertaining to the space and the process around these devices as opposed to just narrowly focused reviews on a single device.
The secret sauce of steam deck is the pre-caching shaders, I'm interested to know if Holo OS version does this. If not then windows with big picture mode is the way to go
You get this on any Linux PC. Steam preloads Vulkan shaders on Linux, actually on Windows too, but since pretty much every game uses Vulkan on Linux it benefits more.
Windows will always be bloated and Windows 11 is basically spyware eating up resources to collect info for Microsoft
@stevenpledger6163 Every game on Linux has to use Vulkan because DirectX isn't supported on Linux (or is it DirectX doesn't support Linux? Hmm not sure regardless it doesn't work on Linux :P) All games ran on Linux are either native Vulkan or are translated to Vulkan from DirectX.
It's a feature of the Steam client, so it's not exclusive to the Deck.
@@FantomMisfit I'm pretty sure OpenGL games also work on Linux
Just want to highlight the value of reviewers like you, I get so sick of reviewers positively reviewing something and paying no attention to the company's support or treatment of customers itself, need reviews like yours to balance it out, honest and no bs.
That was a terrible buying experience. Almost makes me appreciate my Analogue Pocket buying experience. Almost. I have a Steam Deck, an Analogue Pocket and a Switch OLED. Those devices have been amazing and each device compliments the other. If I am able to get some disposable income in this crazy economy, I would love to pick up an Ayn Loki Zero for my Neo Geo games and Indie games in my Amazon Prime Games account. This would be an easy way to actually be able to play those games on the go and they should be able to play perfectly on this device and it would be a great way to stream my Xbox Games and for Xbox Game Pass streaming. Thanks for the video. BTW it looks like the 8GB RAM Loki Zero with 128 GB storage is $248.00 as of 1/28/24.
still trying to understand the message of so many videos starting with him sitting
He’s sittin down cuz it’s serious biznezz ٩( ᐛ )و
Still? Lol
Isn’t it obvious?
@@marcamusprime9513 I mean.. it's obvious to me. 😉
It's cool it's like we have an appointment with him
Thats just bob getting ready to spill the tea ☕️ 🫖 😂
I got a steamdeck because I could actually.......normally get it, without having to go through all this uncertainty.
Dängit Bob, I've had computer issues for a week, and those "bleeps" drove me paranoid!
I'm happy to see some low-cost PC handhelds, and I think this one at least supports dual-channel RAM, so that's a small positive point relative to the Win 600.
That said, I'm pretty happy with my GPD Win Mini for PC games and an RP3+ plus for Android games, with a bit of emulation on both.
Okay, so my thoughts.
1) Chips Challenge was hella fun back in the day. Portable one though? I'm in. About to bust out my widows Vista Laptop to play.
2) I personally don't mind when TH-cam review channels such as yours get free things to review, as long as there is a a disclaimer that you did and you're unbiased when you do review it, which you usually are, and we're all thankful Bob.
3) Thank you for bringing into consideration the shipping hassle because that is also part of the process which a lot of people seem to forget.
4) So. Many. Options.
Honestly buying experience highly depends on what region you are in. I saw many videos where people from Canada and USA complained that it takes months to get things from Ali and in Russia, in my experience, it usually takes about 2-3 weeks. Plus it depends on where are you buying, what shiping are you choosing and etc. It is a thing that is worth mentioning, but imo it is not worth to dedicate too much time to it because this experience will differ so much from person to person.
I just wanted to say that I have always had issues with AYN, and I am glad you brought this up. I bought the first AYN Odin Pro and the lite and the delays and cancellations were ridiculous and I simply cancelled and purchased my devices from resellers on eBay for a higher price and yes, I did so willingly, but I would rather deal with someone responsive and with B.S. but it will still be better than the B.S. AYN gave out. To this day I simply bought a Loki Zero from eBay for 200 flat and the seller was a wonderful person, no hassle. I wanted to get my hands on a Loki Max or Mini Pro but I'll wait till I see a deal on eBay or something. Shameful.
Thanks for the several Windows notification sound jumpscares 😂
I just wanna get a handheld device out of the box that just works
8 seconds in and watching you lower your chair already had me hitting the like button. You are too good of a content creator the world doesnt deserve you but I am sure glad you exist
The "I hate mobile orders" killed me. You're so creative.
Thanks for sharing your buying experience. This stuff is incredibly important
Bob, you’re the most honest reviewer on TH-cam.
I really appreciate the discussion about biases, it certainly makes me trust you more.
I bought myself a Loki Zero (8Gb Ram Version) and i set the Bios to have 1GB V-Ram. It is somewhat capable to run Skyrim with around 30 FPS (32 Bit Version, i prefer it because of the Steam Workshop). And more demanding Titles i stream from my bigger PC via Steam. But my most Use is as a small PC on my TV for TH-cam or if i'm playing Switch to quickly google something up. Yes i could use an Android TV Box or just my Smartphone but i was courious because i love the handheld formfactor. And something like a xbox or PS was/is a No-Go because i just don't want to have huge things standing around. So jeah, i like my Loki Zero, even if it has not experienced a lot of gaming. And i think this is a usecase where this device (even though there are other and cheaper solutions for my usecase) has a useful case in this world.
The fact that they can produce a fully fledged gaming handheld for that price is astounding to me.
I really appreciate that you did cover your actual purchase experience. That sounds super frustrating. I do wonder if a regular consumer wouldn't have the same issues, because they wouldn't forget so easily vs someone who covers tons of handhelds, but I can't fault you for that. They really should have done better to reach out to you about the issues.
On the "Where is SteamOS" side of things, I do believe that Valve will release an ISO for it. Eventually. They operate on Valve Time, and honestly, I am a little glad they do. Watching them hold the sale of the Steam Deck Dock because the software wasn't ready, even though they had the hardware in their warehouses ready to ship, tells me that they have learned from past experiences and want it to be a good experience for everyone who uses it. Yes, there is also the licensing issue, but I would guess that a bigger issue is nVidia driver support. And I don't think we will see other handhelds, even AMD handhelds get SteamOS support from Valve until they can sort things out with nVidia and basically having a generic installer for all systems so that it is a good experience.
I remember when SteamOS 1.0 released, and you had to have a very specific setup for it to work, and it sucked. They did eventually make it better, but not by much. So I would guess they will wait until they have improved the experience, because that is what is going to keep people on or going back to SteamOS, the experience. If it is a poor experience, people will just install Windows. From what I understand, most people like SteamOS on the Deck and keep it. Some do go into installing Windows on it, but most seem content. I know plenty who stream from a Windows PC to it for games they can't run, but others will play what they can on it and leave it at that.
12:00 That game was my jam. It gets so difficult towards the end for no reason.
I've had so many bad experiences with these types of handheld now. Only one that was good was the steam deck itself.
Gpd quality assurance absolutely sucks so just a warning for everyone.
Oh hell yeah Chips Challenge, I remember playing that on our Compaq all in one when Windows 3.1 was still recent...
i just have to mention this, but your sponsor bits are awesome and hilarious!
I swear, the beginning of this video just makes me feel second hand "Buyer's Remorse" lol.
My man using all these window sounds to bleep himself while I am trying to upload has been freaking me out.
Yessss Chip's Challenge reference!
Bummer.
I agree that covering the receipt of a product. It makes so much difference. I run into problems often enough I wish it was addressed.
I'm still interested in the Loki Zero mainly because of my love for indies (and that price tag), but the way they handled the announcement and release of the Lokis was ridiculous. It just makes me glad that I don't pre-order anything, at all.
I've been seeing myself going back to the Ayn website and seriously considering the Zero...the price is good, the performance is good enough for the retro gaming I do (rarely go past PSP/ 64) and it's still a freakin' Windows PC for when I'm not retro gaming. Could easily replace my huge laptop when I'm on the road. For the money, i just seems like it's perfect FOR ME. It's definitely not for everyone, but it does have it's uses. By all means keep on adding the buying experience in your videos Bob, this is the reality of it: we're almost all the time dealing with ordering these contraptions from another country altogether than the one we live in and it might not always go as smoothly as we'd like it to. I'm buying from China over 20 years now both for business and for pleasure, it's gotten MUCH better over the years, but it's still not as good as buying from Amazon for instance. Crap happens, and it's not always so easy to fix if a mistake happens. YMMV of course, but it's something you need to be aware of before diving in.
This hardware isn't even enough to run WIndows comfortably. More than 2 browser tabs will bring it to a screeching halt. Great if you can find a use case for it but 4GB RAM just can't cut it
@@JoshF848 Should be said that there is an 8GB version and you can also add your own ram to it because the 4gb one has an empty slot.
@@wolfer1011 I've seen folks getting it up to 16GB, more than enough for my usage.
Retroid pocket 4
@@wolfer1011until they cancel that one as well
I think it's fine for reviewers to get things for free to review as long as the reviewer is upfront about it. As long as you give your honest thoughts and opinions you're a good reviewer in my book. Like how you did this video.
Whether or not you feel like being given review units influences is irrelevant: you can't "control" for bias in your review process if the product was provided or you didn't order it 'anonymously'. So you can still have a good video review and piece of content, but it's absolutely subjective and no objectivity can be claimed because you can no longer control for bias. That means nothing to most people, but I don't think anyone is surprised that yours is not a clinical or laboratory review operation - doesn't seem to be the vibe you're going for. =) That said, I really enjoy this video and take it as one data point in a much, much larger ecosystem of handhelds and their reviewers. Thank you and have a good one.
What I take from this video, and my own experiences, is that technical infrastructure can bury issues far from the people who care to make it right. It's part of consumerism, it will happen to everyone eventually. All you can do is keep pushing help, reaching out to different sources.
The buying process is the number one reason why I pretty much exclusively buy my handhelds on Amazon. Yes, I might be spending more than I would've otherwise and there's likely devices that aren't available on Amazon (and thus I wouldn't be able to get), but the buying (and shipping) process is dramatically easier. There's basically no BS involved.
I love my Odin Lite. It is my most used device by far, only behind my phone. I stream my pc and consoles to it. I emulate on it. It feels like a quality product made by a reputable company. But when my wife ordered it for me as a gift, she did tell me that the website/order process gave her scam concerns. She said she almost didn’t get because she felt something was off and site/order process felt shady. But I actually use more than my steam deck due to weighing much less and being smaller to transport.
I am on linux. I kept looking for notifications because windows has trained me and your video has the sound a lot. XD
I really wish they would release steam os as a standalone OS. I would definitely dual boot my Pc with it….
Holo and chimera are very good tbh
Been loving my retroid pocket 4 not only because I have been able to play pretty much every game up to ps2 but game streaming on a lil pocketable device is sweet
Got my watermelon 4p in yesterday. Been playing bomb rush Cyberfunk on it through yuzu, loll
Yeah I really appreciate getting into the buying experience. Especially as time goes on, it's something we take for granted and shining light on customer service is a big deal for me now
the windows sound effects as the censoring is hilarious and so topical
That coffee affiliate marketing ad! funny as hell! love this man! 🤣
Consider retention, lack of towards the middle, love the long time. Missing you for all of January. Nontendo did now show up…
Mainly wanted a portable PC handheld to play PS2 games at the highest resolution the device can handle. Everything else it can handle is a bonus for me.
Gran Turismo 3 and 4 aren't compatible with my phone so it still looks like the Steam Deck is still the way to go.
It looks like the Loki line up has been rebranded to Zeenix
6:32 A windows notification sound I though it was my own windows..
Steam deck is way better for your money
My wife like to play on my Steam Deck but for her it's too heavy. So I 'm trying to find something more lightweight.
@@Vinddraken A switch
@Vinddraken have you ever see the historical documentary made by disney called "Up"?
@@ThatGuyJoss I wouldn't call it a documentary.
I don't know where I am this team deck is $400 more and if you do some tweaking with the CPU in that it might be able to outperform the steam deck in like one game
Thank you for suffering though this experience for us. I've considered backing multiple handhelds over the course of the last couple years but never pulled the trigger because in the end I just didn't trust the companies. I ended up waiting for my 2021 preorder for the OG steam deck and had zero regrets. I then bought the OLED deck fall 2022 and love it. Now I feel comfortable with my current handhelds until there's a significant processor generational leap. But i love watching videos of new ones that come out to keep up with the tech.
i feel like all of this leaves the door wide open for Valve to make a Steam Deck Lite
These videos are just as important as the good experience videos. keep these rants going.
Good video to start my morning
7 pm gang
I ordered a Loki day one, haven’t received a refund or a product, not even an email reply to all my messages since 2022… hate to see it but it was a learning experience, no more preorders from companies that have no local reputation to uphold
The windows sound effects hit so well
It literally made me pick up the laptop under my bed to check if I hadn't switched it off properly. 😂
Omg chip’s challenge! You just resurfaced a nostalgic memory for me
I really want valve to release SteamOS for anyone to just install on their hardware if they want. I have ChimeraOS on my Win Max 2, and its amazing, but it does lack some functionality in the performance overlay, replaced by their own homemade overlay. Its totally functional, but I still wish I could just put fully functional SteamOS straight from valve on it.
Another reason why the big dogs (asus, lenovo, steam) have a huge one up with selling either direct from the US or just from Best Buy AND having stock in store!
Yup, getting any of these devices sucks big time. I would love to see a video about returning a device with problems. How long does it take, do they give you problems, etc.
Thanks Bob! Appreciate the effort and content you supply. Keep it up buddy!
13:47 HE PLAYS NEON WHITE! HE PLAYS NEON WHITE!
As a dad of 4 with already 2 switches and 2 steam decks and 3 gaming laptops, I would get this for the purpose of playing..psp and under emulation station, 4 player Dreamcast action, and ps1 gaming.
Funny moment: 12:53
*Game starts laggins epicly*
"O O O F"
My Loki came DOA, told AYN and they said take it apart and look and see if the screen is touching a screw. They told me to completely disassemble and put a strip of tape over it.
Two weeks later my Aya Neo Next failed and was less than a year old. I didn’t hear anything back from Aya. I don’t recommend these Chinese handhelds at all.
omg why did I decide to go through my emails while watching this in the background. Constantly checked my inbox thinking I received emails
Love the OS / UI / DE sounds for censoring. Though the Windows one gave me a jumpscare and bad flashbacks.
Welcome to the Loki purchase I had to email them 100 times! No joke
There are lots of options to get that Steam OS feeling on a handheld: ChimeraOS, BazziteOS, HoloIso, Nobara Steam Deck Edition and WineSapOS
I'd be interested to see your attempts to learn about steamos distros and a bit more testing of how they perform on those low end devices.
I know there are other creators with a bit more of a technical focus doing that already. I hope this doesn't sound snarky but I think you'd be a good representation of what the process is like for a normal person. It's useful perspective when recommending something like that to a friend
I really think the only way Windows-based handhelds can compete with Steam Deck is if Microsoft finally takes notice and makes an excellent Win11 Handheld Mode like they leaked a couple years ago. Asking Microsoft to make great gaming software for Windows is a tall order, though.
I will note I was one of also one of the poor souls who Ordered the Loki Mini, to then be upgraded to the Loki Mini Pro Intel for free, paid for the CPU and memory upgrades since those were addon SKUs for the Mini Pro at the time, to then be downgraded back to the Loki Mini Pro AMD, I was refunded my addon upgrade SKUs. I did finally get my Loki Mini Pro and have Chimera OS running on it for the Steam OS experience. The Loki Zero and the Loki Mini Pro are generations apart when it comes to the CPU Cores and the GPU built in them, not being a bottom run 7000th series CPU, it can't perform close enough to the Steam Deck proper.
The Loki Mini Pro ended up being a single batch production, they didnt sell enough to minimum order requirements, and killed off the other skus offering them as either free or paid upgrades. In the end they still ended up with just a few left over which they sold on the site for $350 (up from their original asking price of $299) after the initial orders were fulfilled then removed it from the site altogether.
This is the issue the amount off different specs for ppl new to emulation puts them off i bet they need to streamline the buying process imo, great video Bob.
"Here's another tangent to make this video longer than it needs to be" that right there is art dammit
8:27 this is the best statement ever said from a reviewer
I don’t mind y’all getting review units for free. It helps. But you should do a Durability test afterwards. Like give it to a toddler or a 5 year old on a trampoline 😂
Big fan of your videos, love the topics you discuss!
I love my Loki Zero as it fills a niche I've been searching years for; a modestly-sized handheld running Windows that can play lightweight indie games and visual novels.
That said, I can't honestly recommend it unless someone's in the same boat as I was. It's a very underpowered handheld that can only do so much. I gotta' figure most folks are gonna' want something more contemporary, which the Loki Zero most certainly is not.
When even the cheapest PC Handhelds today are stronger than your current PC Handheld 😅
I still have a GPD Win 2 btw
Ouch
God, I remember wanting to buy that for so long and now that I finally have the money for one it turns out it's already getting severely outclassed.
Make a video of Loki zero using Jelos it can do a lot more emulation on it even Wii u
Yes, JELOS runs great on it.
@@BrooksyTech deserves a video 🧐
thanks for pointing out the problems you had with the buying process. Even if it's rare, it *does* happen, and it'simportant to hold companies to account when they screw around..
The prices they're asking for it isn't bad at all for a slightly beefier RG3511 replacement. Slap SteamOS on it and go.
But if you order it and it vanishes into the aether......
This video is so good man, thanks as always
I really love your ads always entertaining S+++
Yay more Bob the Barista mini series!😊
Picked up a Loki Max (I think?) when they were on sale for black friday for about $300 as a gift. It outpaces my steamdeck and keeps up with my Ally better than I would have expected, but its a finicky device. I probably won't buy anything else from AYN again, but for $300 it's pretty nice.
This sounds like the typical "Someone at the company screwed up your order and no one has any idea who to send the issue to because management is almost non-existent so your case just gets thrown around until someone on the upper level gets wind of it".
As someone who's worked in support, I am all too familiar with these types of situations. The person who saw your tweet probably follows you, realized it would be bad for the company and thought they too would be pissed if they were in your situation and decided to post it in the discord so someone on a higher level would see it quickly.
It's unlikely it would happen to you again if you bought from them, but it never really feels good when it happens initially. They should really work on a system for where to go if something like this were to happen.
Windows on a handheld looks like a painful experience. I'm going to stick with my steam deck until Microsoft builds an OS stripped down to the bare essentials for a handheld environment. (Which will never happen.) I do think Valve may eventually begin partnering with hardware manufacturers to ship other steam OS handhelds, but only after this new market settles. Valve isn't going to let another manufacturer tie themselves to their brand until they're a proven player. Aya has no shot, but maybe a company like Asus or MSI if they commit to the handheld gaming space.
Love the review and sharing your pain in the whole process.. though I spent about 3 seconds each time, looking for which devices I've plugged or unplugged...
After following you for quite some time, I would like to let you know you earn my respect after sharing your experience as a customer.🧢
First off, LOVE the videos just found your channel today. 2nd'ly how exactly do you capture that 2011 7d mark 2 vibes in every video, asking for a friend. ?