Kickstarter: Why companies use it and why campaigns go wrong (feat Maker’s Muse)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ค. 2024
- Kickstarter is a platform to which many are hostile, whereas others see an exciting opportunity. Some campaigns have been catastrophic, with backers losing their money and never receiving a reward. Understanding the risks can make Kickstarter a safer prospect, although risk will always be evident. In this video I speak to manufacturers to find out why they used Kickstarter, and discuss warning signs for risky campaigns with Angus from Maker’s Muse.
Special thanks to:
Angus from Maker’s Muse: www.makersmuse.com/
Dr Tao from Bambu Lab: www.bambulab.com/
Kiran and Charlie from Frame Theory 3D: www.frametheory3d.com/
Matthew and Frank from Printermods.com: printermods.com/
I also contacted Bigtreetech and Creality for input on this video, but unfortunately didn’t hear back.
0:00 Introduction
0:47 What is Kickstarter?
2:18 What have I personally backed?
2:36 Why is Kickstarter controversial?
Olo Kickstarter: www.kickstarter.com/projects/...
3:54 Why companies use Kickstarter: Start ups
Songbird Turntable video: • The Songbird: A home 3...
Bambu Lab X1 video: • Bambu Lab X1 transpare...
6:16 Why companies use Kickstarter: Semi-established manufacturers
XChange video: • XChange: Toolchanging ...
8:34 Why companies use Kickstarter: Established manufacturers
Ankermake Kickstarter campaign: www.kickstarter.com/projects/...
BIQU BX video: • BIQU BX - Octoprint co...
Creality CR-6 SE video: • Creality CR-6 SE - You...
Creality CR-30 video: • Creality CR-30 3DPrint...
9:58 Kickstarter hazards: Scams
Olo article from 3dsourced: www.3dsourced.com/feature-sto...
Angus’ video on the Olo: • ONO! What happened to ...
10:36 Kickstarter hazards: Higher demand than expected
3D printed F-bomb video: • 3D printed F-bomb: Hol...
Angus’ recap of the Pirate3D Buccaneer: • This 3D Printer Raised...
12:24 Kickstarter hazards: Stretch goals
CR:6 issue list: gist.github.com/Sebazzz/ff4d7...
13:39 Kickstarter hazards: Delays
16:16 Why I still cover products on Kickstarter
17:35 Conclusion: Only pledge what you can afford to lose
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Hi all, this is the first time I've used premiere. It seemed upset some folks, and I had no idea that would happen, so apologies.
Bigtreetech sent me statement:
"Similar to kickstarter's slogan- Bring a creative project to life. At the time of our BQ BX launch, H2 was the lightest extruder on the market, And Bigtreetech has the most popular and advanced control board in the 3D printer community. The BX was the combination of the most advanced technologies and products of Biqu and Bigtreetech at the time, the combination of our most creative Ideas. Our R & D Teams spent over a year testing and improving the BX over and over again in hope to bring to the 3D printing community what we think was the perfect 3D printer.
We were on Kickstarter To get more public exposure and getting more people to know about what a fantastic printer the Bx is. At that time, Bigtreetech was a well established brand and everyone knows about our control boards, but Biqu was a baby comparatively. we were hoping to find out if our creation was something the 3D printing community would like to embrace, and if it wasn't something that people liked, so we weren't really on kickstarter for the money. Our earlybird price was 250 USD at the time, but the retail price of just the H2 extruder alone was over 70 dollars. The cost of the BX's motherboard and Screen was over 130 dollars. Our backers were essentially getting the printer at the bare cost of the BX, we weren't really earning any profit.
When trying to collect info from our backers using the pledgebox, some backers didn't provide us with their address in time so we weren't able to ship the printer out to them.
Also, the COVID situation was very severe at the time of our BX project, so shipping cost went through the roof and oversea warehouse logistics had extra longer wait time, the shipping time of The BX was delayed severly due to this."
You mentioned you used Premier for the 1st time.. Do you mean Adobe Premier or something else? ( side not I saw nothing wrong with the video.. Fantastic work)
Premiere??
@@handsofrhythm3415 TH-cam Premiere. it looks like a live video to some subscribers and has chat, but is actually just a different way to release a normal video on youtube.
My biggest problem with Kickstarter is when people don't put the product on general sale at the end of a successful campaign, and instead just start a new campaign for a "new" product that is virtually identical to the previous one.
Fantastic video/topic… I know someone that ran a kickstarter for a product (non 3DP) but used a 3D Printer for production of some of the reward materials. They ran into the exact example you called out where they planned on maybe 100-200 backers but ended up with 1000+. They provided updates via the kickstarter and used the funding to buy more printers to produce more of the reward items. However the biggest issue they ran into was production/delivery from APAC to US of the main deliverable.
Thanks for fleshing out a real world example. The more we understand as backers, the better we can judge future projects we are interested in.
Having run a successful Kickstarter project for my laser business it amazes me how little users know about how projects work. It is very easy for a project to hit setbacks and go off the rails. Even when things go right there are still things that end users need to understand. They forget kickstarter isn't a store. It is an unsecured investment platform. Once you understand that side of it, it makes more sense.
Great Video Michael! Recently SeedMaker had a resin printer that was actually not bad, I have one. It succeeded in Kickstarter. Then in October 2021, they said they were shipping and that's the last update from them ever. They have disappeared completely with the money and left everyone hanging. I agree 100% with you and Angus on this! It is important that we cover things and be biased. That way our community can see the product from both sides before they make a purchase!
I've supported a number of crowdfunding campaigns, and I've (singlehandedly) run a crowdfunding campaign before, so I'm sympathetic to the people behind them. My biggest challenge as a project owner was sourcing specialist parts for customisation, all while dealing with complainers and other unsupportive people.
Many had advised making campaigns as slick- and professional-looking as possible, but it never dawned on me until this video that the products being advertised might be fake.
I have backed three projects on Kickstarter, but no more. I did receive all of the products, but was not happy with any. The CR-6 SE was my first, and once I got it and could work with it, I realized I made a mistake, I backed the X-change, but discovered that no one had a mount that I could use, so had to design my own. It worked but the delays were a big problem. I was considering backing the Creality scanner, but missed the early window, glad since they have proven to be a questionable company. After all of this, I didn't consider the Bambu labs new printer just because of Kickstarter
As someone who watches videos at 1.75x speed I resonate with the "Premieres are annoying" mood, but props to you for trying something different and hopefully you find a way to make it work for you :)
You could always wait the duration of the video on upload and watch regularly afterwards.
@@mysticmarble94 I just wait until about halfway in and then start it, yup. Still an annoyance! At least the video was worth watching.
My time time doing a premiere. I had no idea people found them annoying. Lesson learned and I most likely won't do one again.
@@TeachingTech I'm sure there's a reason for that feature existing, but it's been out for at least a year or two at this point and I've never seen it used sensibly. I think it's just one of those strange things that TH-cam added because they could, rather than because they should, and now content creators have this weird new option that doesn't make sense for anyone.
I've seen premiers work when someone releases a video every week at exactly the same time. But it is usually for entertainment based content. (Like a video game challenge series) Interacting with others and the creator in real time as the video was premiered was fun. Kinda like watching a TV show with 1,000 strangers on the Internet.
Great video. I love this format and I think you did a great job providing an objective look at Kickstarter. You were fair to both the point of view of backers and the companies that chose to use Kickstarter. I hate to use Kickstarter and try to avoid it, but some times there are new and innovative products and you will be months or a year waiting if you don't bite the bullet and back on Kickstarter.
Thank you Michael for another Well Done video. Your contents are always well thought through and decently unbiased which is hard to find to your level these days. I have backed three projects on Kickstarter (Power Vision S1, Elegoo Jupiter, and Bambu Lab X1) all of which had been a success! Well, I am yet to receive the X1, but knowing the team behind it, I have no doubt it will be fulfilled. Like you said, I did my due diligence prior to funding and coming from an electronics manufacturing background, I can smell trouble once I learn about the components they will aiming for. Plus, knowing the people behind any project is paramount because their reputation is at stake. Peace....✌
Thanks for the informative video as always. Not only introduce products in this channel, but also provide news about the industry for customers and manufactures👍
Thanks for this video. It's great to see the interviews with founders who created the projects to get some insight into their thinking process.
I'm looking forward to Bamboo labs kicking some serious butt in the marketplace, forcing Creality, Prusa, and others to really step up their game.
I think Creality will go bust in the next 18 months, their business plan of just pumping out new designs and never fixing errors in their lemons (which are many) is not sustainable, especially in a fast devoloping market
Great video and nice collaboration with Angus. I've only backed one kickstarter, for a new range of gaming miniature paints. It was massively successful and this has caused all sorts of production and delivery issues that they did not foresee, obviously compounded by being in the middle of a global pandemic. To date I still haven't received my rewards, originally due to ship in January '22. However, I'm not too worried for the reasons you and Angus state in the video. The people involved in the kickstarter are well known and respected in the gaming industry. They have been up front with the issues they faced and some they inadvertently created themselves. And at the end of the day I can afford to lose my pledge if it all goes wrong.I think it is a great way to help innovative aspiring people get their ideas to market, just go in to it with your eyes fully open.
I think paint is a safe gamble. No one likes to wait but quality paint will still be quality paint in 12 months.And a pleasure to use(I like good paint)
With 3dp, in 12 months it will be a door stop at best.
Bambu Lab has done a pretty good Kickstarter campaign. The only thing they really messed up is the projected delivery date: They set it to July, but that's only their shipping date. Actual sea shipping can easily add another 6 weeks to that. So when shipping is mid to end July, most backers will receive units only in August or September. This is going to backfire for them: Already people are venting in the comments on KS that the confirmation email said "delivery date: July".
Another thing established companies do is putting out a Kickstarter campaign, but then shipping retail units to Amazon faster than to the backers (Sunlu for example did that with their filament dryer). It remains to be seen how Bambu Lab will handle this - they plan on opening their own store in July and be on Amazon in August…
I backed the X1 carbon as an early bird. I got my ship survey middle of July and will have the printer and AMS on Tuesday(AUG 9th East Coast US) so I am far from complaining. I also backed Anker 3d printer and wont be getting that until end of year best case scenario and that campaign ended before Bambu.
Backed Bambu labs X1 carbon and my order arrives on Tuesday. Short campaign and fast ship times. The only hard parts were getting to be an early bird and shelling out $1k.
I have shoved hundreds into my "inexpensive" $100 ender 3 pro so any reduction in tinkering time is worth it to me. So far I haven't been burned by kickstarter so fingers crossed the trend continues.
For Bambu i know they are saying it will ship in July… but I’m honestly not expecting to receive mine until Sept/Oct+
Does it concern you that the product you receive is likely to be below retail quality?
*Bambu is the exception. They already have many hundreds of production printers already shipped out to many TH-camrs all over the country for testing and promoting their products. So more than likely you're going to get your Bambu around July give to take a week or two.*
As someone who may have to rely on KS to finish a novel (cover cost, line editors, copy editors, translators, etc) I dislike how KS has become. I tend to view it as an Alt-store now. I expect to lose money backing new creators, that is part of the journey in business, and as a backer, you are helping someone try their dream.
Companies, not start-ups mind you, flood the market with their products routinely. Not just in the tech fields either. There are a few companies I have followed for the last 5 and 8 years. I have seen them prosper selling products that cost more than a car and yet they rely on KS as part of their business plan, one running 3-5 projects a year. Then there is the fact of KS only products. Not rewards, but ones where they run a KS for X days, and that is it.
It is disheartening when you see a project that looks rough, but you back it, then find out they had 40+ projects in the last two years under a different "company" name.
I am against established companies using Kickstarter. Their use of customers to take the risk without recourse while they pocket all the benefits strikes me as wrong.
100% agree. Creality running a kickstarter, when they have sold millions of printers is despicable, and that is completely down to kickstarter for having such pathetic supervision and rules.
The 2 cutest DIY makers in Australia
well summarized. I also have not such a big problem with Kickstarter as a promotion platform for big companies, but they should have to follow stricter rules as they should have the resources and just want accurate numbers for production
Glad the premier is over so I can watch the video finally.
Only Kickstarter I backed was for Printermods. Product was a little late but did ship and worked as expected. Would have backed Bumbu but lacked the disposable funds 😞
Don't worry Geoff your not only one lacking the $$$ to back Bambu many of us out there
Warning signs can be impossible to see. Take, for example, the FS-X speaker. Existing company, existing product, working prototypes, supposedly shipping practically immediately after funding. And if something was to go wrong the Creator promised to refund. Years later no products, no refunds.
I haven't heard of that one, thanks for sharing. It sounds like what Angus said, where the company didn't want to commit to a pre-order due to accountability.
Nice video my friend. Thumps up from Germany !
It's a long while ago now, so my memory has faded a bit, but I waited 2.5-3 years for a Meater Block to be delivered... And for that I'm grateful, but boy... I thought I'd flushed my money a few times. I take my hat off to Meater for sticking it out. Others might have given up. That was an emotional rollercoaster that one.
I very nearly backed the Bambu Carbon, hovering over the button with just a couple of hours to go. However I had a niggle that it seems overly good for a really low price. I've decided to wait for their printer to reach the market normally and buy it without risk for more money.
Absolutely how I feel about it. As the saying goes, "When it seems too good to be true, it usually is."
Yea, I mean they've sent the first 2000 backers their printers that'll apparently start arriving by around the 25th ish of this month (if in America cos they get it by air). So we'll see what normal users think of it, I'll be interested to get a perspective of the normal X1 operation because that unit wasn't sent out to reviewers.
I'm waiting for the printer to be sold on their site which will apparently happen when all the Kickstarter units have been shipped so I guess mid-August ish.
@@magnarex I'm not interested till it hits shop where I get legal protections if it doesn't work.
What ever happened with the jadelabo j1? Anyone ever get one? Were they any good? Passed on the campaign and looked at their web site a few times since but never saw any updates.
106 kickstarters backed, plus a dozen or so on other similar platforms. I don't think I have ever not been given what has been advertized, but on the flip side, I don't back huge stuff like 3D printers and new inovative tech. Delays, sure, there's almost always delays, but I don't think I ever once looked at the expected date when backing. If I want this kickstarter, it doesn't matter if it's in 2 weeks or 5 years.
The one issue that wasn't mentioned and is often a cause of a campaign going wrong is the fact that product design and engineering and product manufacturing is something that is not easy. There are people and companies that have invested years and much money to acquire the experience in manufacturing products. My experience has been with people having great ideas and have successfully completed campaigns, are often ill equipped for the manufacturing process, which they have never had any experience in, is far harder and longer than they ever expected. Often the product they are manufacturing is completely reasonable, it is the overconfidence the project owner has in their ability to manage the manufacturing of a product that is the downfall of the project.
That's a good point. I was trying to get at that wit the increase in volume example with the F bomb. One thing to make a prototype, something else to design for volume manufacturing. Any good designer should be accounting for that from the beginning but not everyone is a good designer.
@@TeachingTech I totally agree, and I would add that many of these projects end up being manufactured overseas and management of overseas manufacturing is an industry of its own. I have friends that have specialized in this area for decades and they still run into many unforeseen issues, I can just imagine someone trying to pull this off for the very first time, all by themselves, is daunting and high risk. Unfortunately, the risk is often bore by the people supporting the project and they are often the ones that pay the price of failure.
I have experienced another aspect of kickstarter product. I bough a device for tracking sleep, which was cloud based. I received the product, it worked, but then the company went bankrupt and with that the cloud backend also went down. The product was useless after that. This can of course happen with normal companies as well, but might be a higher risk if the company doesn't find normal markets to continue selling the product once the kickstarter hype is over.
Very good point. That's why I was happy to see the Bambu Lab printer wasn't locked into the cloud and using their slicer and filament.
I appreciate the insight and information a lot. I've been developing a product off and on for a few years and don't really see another way to bring it to market other than kickstarter since I'm just a student (although even that would be hard since I'm doing engineering so time isn't exactly abundant). I like hearing more perspectives and information about kickstarted and how it's used to inform decisions and if my dream is even remotely possible.
But then you are EXACTLY the kind of developer that should NOT be funded. Zero manufacturing experience, zero retail experience, preoccupied with other things, and clearly not committed to your product. If "my time is not abundant" is one of your reasons for failing to bring your product to market, what does that say about your commitment?
@@matbroomfield I've already developed it, I just need money to pay for the patent. I can make and sell it now, which might be what I do. Kickstarter would just allow me to do it better. I'm in the phase of giving it to family and friends for feedback before I invest more.
@@DanielLawsTheAmazing If you're giving it to family and friends you may already have breached the terms of patent. Are you aware that patent is an ongoing yearly expense? And that's to say nothing of the cost of a patent lawyer to guide you through it and do all the searches. Is your product commercially viable? Do you make a sufficient return to justify the cost? Will the market stand that cost? Are there other products that do the same thing? Is it a product where you manufacture each one, or are you looking to mass produce? If you are busy, how many can you make with the time you have available and does that justify the cost of patent, or pay for the required number of backers?
@@matbroomfield I'm not gonna bother going into detail, but #1 product testing doesn't invalidate a patent from the research I've done since it doesn't qualify as public disclosure. Either way you can also get a patent a year after disclosure, #2 I obviously know that patents are expensive, hence why I said one of the benefits of kickstarter are paying for a patent, and #3 yeah I've accounted for all that
@@DanielLawsTheAmazing In that case, good luck.
Kickstarter is nothing to be afraid of as long as your expectations are low and you understand any money you put it in might as well be flushing it down the toilet. I have been backing projects almost since the site launched (My first backed KS was April 2010). My stats:
Backed: 134
Not funded: 4
Campaign Suspended/cancelled before end date: 2
Successful, but cancelled and refunded after successful funding: 1
Successful, product never delivered: 2 (Olo/Ono is one of those two)
Successful, reward not received, but still in progress: 11 (at this point I am confident at least 10 of those 11 will deliver based on past experience - the 11th....eh, we'll see in 6-8 months)
Successful, reward received as expected: 115
So out of nearly $9000 (US) spent on KS over 12 years, I am out a grand total so far of ~$200
You've had an exciting and pretty successful run, well done!
Good video, but I think the perspective from the companies are interesting as well. The alternatives to doing a kickstarter would be to take a massive loan(Which not everyone can) or go sell a part of their company to a venture capitalist for funding.(This is actually what most startups do). With those alternatives, having the customers take all the risk while you retain your whole company is a great deal!
Backers need to know that they are basically venture capitalists at this point, kickstarter is not(Or should not be, my opinion) a service to pre-order stuff that are already done. The point about kickstarter being a gamle is a good one, and I believe that's how it should be.
I've had decent luck with my backed projects, but I have one that I'm still waiting on. A tripod project. They are updating us about once a month but they are looking for more external funding atm.
"Backers need to know that they are basically venture capitalists " Incorrect analogy. Venture capitalists expect a significant return on their investment in monetary terms or shares in a company that is about to explode. If the company misrepresents what they are offering or what they plan to do, they can be sued. Kickstarter backers simply receive the thing they paid for, at best, at a slight discount, and nobody is legally accountable. It's a great deal for the COMPANY, and an appalling deal for backers. Why would any consumer view this from the perspective of the company AT BEST exploiting them? The issues and ownership rights of the manufacturer are no more my concern, than my protection appears to be theirs. If they have to borrow a lot of money, that's how they show commitment to their product. If their idea is good, and their market research effective, they get their money plus profit back.
I'm curious; what did you get from your backed projects that you would not have gotten by simply waiting till they hit the streets?
@@matbroomfield I think it's a correct analogy, but I do agree that the whole "No accountability" is a bad thing. However, making a KS campaign and then fail to deliver can mess up your whole career so it's not without consequences.
The things I got from my backed campaigns were a significant reduction in cost(Which is where the whole "backers being venture capitalists" come from. I get a lot more value than I put in. But instead of money I get stuff). I also get it quicker and in some cases I get it at all, because if no one backs it might not exist at all.
Like I said, not everyone can get a loan at all. So I think that crowdfunding is a good alternative, but backers need to know what they're getting into.
Anyone knows what happend to the Frame Theory? Their web site is not accessible.
Kickstarter is exactly what it's name is.. It's a platform for smaller companies or individuals to get funding, cover production costs and generate enough interest and money to bring a product yo market - which in turn allows them to finally make some profit.
Unfortunately it IS abused by dubious individuals and large companies that don't want to take the risk of bringing a product to market until they know its going to take off..
There's also another problem. I remember a printer that seemed good and worked by drip feed on z and sound waves from the computer for x/y. This project was transparent, with constant updates giving folks updates on the current progress. It was run by 2 guys and one of them ran off with the money, leaving the other to apologise and explain why no-one would ever receive this printer. Thankfully, I held off from backing, but many people suffered because of it.
Bottom line is: make sure the kickstarter looks "real" and only back with disposable money, as the risk is all yours to lose out.
Unfortunately, kickstarter is not something I would follow - too many risks..
I backed the Bambu Lab X1 carbon at the quoted price of $1120 USD. Now that the campaign has ended, conversion rates have pushed this to $1345 USD. Since the full retail is $1499 USD, I feel like I am better off waiting for a full retail kit with kinks ironed and product guaranteed. Bambu Lab has not responded to my emails.
The reasons you mentioned and not having the $$$ is the reason I didn't back it.. Waiting to see the follow a) full cost and b) where will it shipped from thus possibly adding to total cost ( aka Prusa shipping costs)
@@TripleJAu there are several manufacturing locations, as reported. I am I. The USA, so mine will come from Texas. But, shipping cost is also a factor. We are meant to pay for this as well
I backed the X1 carbon as an early bird($1k) and there were no added shipping costs. Not sure where you live but I already have a delivery date of Aug 9th and I'm East Coast USA.
After sinking hundreds into my ender 3 pro and wasting untold amount of time modifying and tinkering I just want a reliable printer.
I'm also on the east coast. But I did not make it into early bird. I made it in a few minutes too late.
Thats good news, tho. That means I should see mine soon, I hope.
Interesting video Michael, I don't think I will ever take the risk with Kickstarter.. from the moment I've heard about all the flops that have happened there (linus tech tips have covered a bunch too), I just value my money too much to throw it somewhere and maybe getting something out of it :p
Also poor Angus, you could've used a slightly better microphone in that voice call with him, haha ;)
Just about a week ago I pledged my very first time on kickstarter it was for a 3D scanner it was important that this was a company that has footing previous products successes which came from previous kickstarter products so this made it more trustworthy made it less gamble than for example an unknown company/team with no past I honestly wouldn't pledge any money in that although that would be kickstarter's point (that sad till I get the pledge "reward" can not say for sure what the final verdict will be)
Massive risk - more scams than successes. The company holds all the cards. Even legit companies should not be trusted. They want YOU to take on board all the risk but they ultimately reap all the benefits. The fact that you may eventually get a product that is likely to get made elsewhere anyway, and which can eventually be bought retail is little compensation.
At absolute best, you're paying to beta test the worst commercial version of the product, and with no warranty or delivery guarantee, having paid intenational shipping off your own back at the highest rate. You're not "investing" in the product because you don't receive shareholder returns. You're gambling on getting your money back. A truly stupid gamble.
Nice summary. My success rate is 21/22 but I was never gambling that much. As we discussed in the video I was generally in for the journey rather than these products being make or break for me.
Its funny im still waiting for printermods to send my xchange as when the roll out happened as usps wouldn't send anything to Australia i guess its fine im 3 for 4 if printermods pulled there finger out it would be 4 for 4
@@paulblades3143 I'm with you. The X change kickstarter broke me. This is an industry where developments are occurring rapidly. If you ship months after your own promises, it causes more damage than the good publicity of KS.
I'm not bitter but I'll never purchase a single item from printer mods for the rest of eternity.
@@handsofrhythm3415 they did screw the whole thing up like saying free postage then backing out of that using a stupid "unique code" and not sending that email that it came with also the false advertising that its made in USA when it was developed in USA made in china i have no problems with china doing it but be honest give them credit aswell but i guess printermods cant be that i dont believe the owner was telling the truth about the cancer..i got a computer cpu cooler from kickstarter at the start of covid they send it free of charge when it was 1 month late no matter how many someone got but printermods didnt follow anything they said but i guess we dont have a youtube video and got something free that they can turn a blind eye at every detail someone said they did
the infamous AnanasStepper in Kickstarter, it was a disaster with the campaign and the people involved never able to show progress in production and terrible support
Great video! While I often find Kickstarter campaigns fascinating, it boils down to nothing more than a gamble...
BTW, what is that white crab-like creature on your desk???
Vorpal Hexapod: th-cam.com/video/cf1dBCwsE0o/w-d-xo.html
Thing with kickstarter its zero risk for the company launching the product in terms of outlaying any $$$, if it fail as many do they close shop, some phoenix and start again. I’ve backed many, but burnt by some, and have had some successes, I’ve also backed a number of small projects that have been successful, micro python was one, however no longer back any now. Most companies that’s were successors Ive backed have disappeared, or the product is no longer supported because a new model is out, a couple havent, but based on my numbers its not worth it, and better off paying for the end product with reputable company
I might back a kick starter, but only from a large company such as creality who have more to lose than a no name start up. I also feel they would be more apt to make any issues right over th non name. But, unless the price is greatly reduced, I'm not backing and will wait for it to be available thru normal a menues and after I read reviews on the actual product.
Hi, Teaching tech,
Sorry for ignoring your message,
We‘ve been busy with new product promotion. Hope has heard from you and replied to you , Much appreciate, it if you can check your email.
Thank you, the reply is now posted in a pinned comment.
I backed one project (a woodworking measuring tool for mitre saws by a new company). They had sent working prototypes out to around 20 TH-camrs that reviewed it. They claimed shipping would be December but I figured they would miss this date by at least a few months (just seeing how other Kickstarters ended) but I wanted the item and backed it ($100). December came and went (as I new it would) and I finally got my tool in April (so only 4 months late) The tool was just OK, as it's interface was not well made and it was hard to understand, last time I used it I set something wrong and it cost be $30 worth of wood. I set it aside and have not used it since as I will need to "study" it deeply to see how to program it again before I use it. In then end, I feel I got what I expected and it looks like a tool that if released by any of the big boy tool makers would be around $300 (but likely with a lot clearer and polished interface). I do tend to have a wait and see attitude on Kickstarters in general with the Bamboo printing being the only one that has peaked my interest in 3 years.
Reekon M1? I got one of those. Happy with the final item, but it did take freaking forever to ship.
@@confusedtx5 Yup. It works, just the interface could be clearer and it tends to pop off my guard easily.
I've backed several Kickstarter campaigns. Most came through (eventually); a couple funded/never shipped, and a few didn't make goal. Fortunately, I'm in a position where I can afford to lose a hundred dollars every now and then. I've learned to be wary of people trying to "cash in" on whatever is hot, like 3D printing is now. I'm not going to risk $200 on yet another Prusa clone, not when I can go to Micro Center and get an Ender 3 Pro for $200, risk free. I will, however, back projects that are truly unique.
I have been getting a lot of ads for the revo mini 3d scanner... seems like perfect timing for this video
They invited me to cover it but I don't like to cover similar products from the same company over and over.
I backed the regular version (pop2) and was delivered as promised. I guess the chance is high you will receive your pledge.
14:17 Backed a pi pico board with extras. Should have been completely shipped by January. Last update beginning of May that they will ship in June for realz this time ... Half of the backers have demanded refunds already. Oh, they also announced they downgraded a few components since they can't get hold of the ones they planned due to chip shortage.
Kickstarter has a reputation it can't help now. I'd love to back the Bambu Carbon but due to their decision to market on KS, they lost me.
A company ready to go that close to production should really have its own dedicated type of Kickstarter (Kickstarter Pro?) taking the hardships out of launching their own pre order campaign. They could still run early bird pricing if they wanted or avoid it completely.
I think this is the approach that Prusa is taking with the XL. I backed it and have not seen any updates, but feel confident that I can get my $200 back
I also have $200 on an XL pre-order. I wonder what the reaction would be if they used Kickstarter instead? I'm guessing not good.
@@TeachingTech Too many of us have given up on Kickstarter. I would rather wait until the product is on the market and others have worked out the bugs and know you can order it and actually receive it.
I understand. As I said in the video, I wish I never had to cover KS campaigns but it's unrealistic. I had a lot of good feedback on the honesty of my Bambu Lab video so I figure I have a role to play, even if I don't like the situation.
When you think about this... Big company really use it for marketing, it's practically free, and it is probably in their interest to have as little as possible "early bird" bids with lower prices so that, if product is good, a lot of people will buy it later, but at full price...
I'm definitely against the established manufactures using it. It just comes across as so disingenuous.
@@TeachingTech yeah, somehow, I see it as a kind of FOMO, and this race to the bottom in recent years, isn't particularly helpful (coming from a guy who bought Ender 3 and untill it came to me, there were already 2 revisions out - X and Pro)
Hey, can you make a video about the hangprinter? The creators donated their design to the public domain only for a patent to be granted to a Patent Troll company. We need to support the open source community, and a mention from you would go a long way towards helping their cause.
I do have a Biqu BX that I purchased after the campaign and I'm quite happy with it.
From everything I've heard that one turned out well and some of the things I complained about in my test were fixed.
@@TeachingTech They were indeed but the firmware that came with it is not very well optimized. I used looxonline's firmware first and then migrated to klipper (still getting used to it).
Yeah, but the people who backed the Kickstarter got the first version of the extruder, which had the bad gears...
@@henninghoefer Ouch. That sucks.
My "scammed" rate on KS is 1 out 5, all delivered items were shipped later than advertised
One thing you did not mention:
Tech Kickstarters can be eclipsed by new products from other sources by the time they fulfill. A new top of the line item may come out every year; so if you are waiting one or even two years for R&D and shipping the shiny new item you backed may be old news by the time it shows up.
💕👍
I've never backed, but I think i'll back only for small prices things, or if I get wealthy enough I will use this as a money game, instead of gambling on horse races or this kind of stuff, with a much better reward at the end
What if you were trying to find A 3-D printer that’s good to make Beyblade’s
I used it a couple times and it didn't work out well at all for me. Never again.
What happend to Bambu Lab X1 campaign?
Not sure what you mean. It just finished and is in progress.
@@TeachingTech Ah ok, so we will get a chance to buy the printer also. Kickstarter was too risky for me.
Crowdfunding has become a cesspool of scammers. I will never use it again.
Personally i would only buy an established product that has great reviews from those who use them.
A kick starter project seems a good way of getting a product to the shelve & without supporters they would not become fruitful.
But it is gamble and it seems that their are more winners than losers so to speak.
So if you do lose then its the game you play.
Because there is no guaranteed pay out.
1:38 how could anyone say no to a chuck norris backed project. that would be impossible to fail
The trouble with kickstarter assuming you receive the product is you get V1.0 of that product which in some cases is not even beta quality
I have used kickstarter twice, never again!
dont forget you can always just buy the product once finished and released
Thats only if the campaign finishes.
If everyone just waited until it’s finished and released, none of the campaigns would ever finish.
@@yourlocaltoad5102 sure, ive supported KS too, dont get me against them 100% but if a project has 100% or more you can chill a bit
It may be a bit much to call Bamboo a startup...
I ran a successful Kickstarter making circuit boards. I was supposed to deliver them in person at a conference. I gave myself extra time for delays in shipping for things like importing, but everything else was on a strict schedule so it would arrive in time.
The company I contracted with to make and assemble the circuit boards consistently missed their promised deadlines and kept neglecting to give me updates. When the boards did finally arrive they were all dead and needed to be reworked because the company ordered the power regulator in a custom pin out which wasn't compatible with my designs.
Needless to say, I missed my deadline and had to pay out of my own pocket to cover shipping expenses.
The company that messed everything up promised to compensate me for the financial burdens their mistakes caused, but it seems to have been gaslighting as I've been in communication with them for years now with no results.
I like the Xchange, but I dont trust anyone with a popcorn ceiling, sorry :/ ...... hehehe lol
1000% marketing… for everyone doing kickstarter… the #1 is marketing reach/visibility for a project. When in doubt the best approach it to just wait it out and buy the item at a slightly higher price unless you have money to burn
thanks for stating the obvious
I've lost over 1k in barely 5 projects. I only got one. ONE!! The rest said we are sorry.... I will never back anything again. Not even creality printers. Go to hell.
Totally understandable you wouldn't want to use Kickstarter again.
Did you have a crowd of Chuck Norris's? 🤣
where is my Kodama ='''''(
Thumbs down for using premiere
it is a joke used it once will never buy any item that use it ever again...
How did you manage to make a video on Kickstarter without mentioning Kodama? Semi-established, marketed the hell out of the machine, lied through their teeth (claiming self designed but actually by a third party they didn’t pay for the work) which they then tried to design themselves and kept the backers hanging for years before finally just disappearing.
No first hand experience with it, and Angus didn't bring it up.
I got scammed with kickstarter with kodama obsidian stay away
save your money - WAIT period - lost on a number of kickstarters - AWAYS same - its like a script they use - delays - excuses - "we are making progress" kickstarter as a company should be hut down OR advertised as what it is an unsecured loan - i bet they violate some consumer law in the us
Try bigger issues like zero sites including thingiverse in America have managed to resume business in 18 months. Try sell me your thing ownership.
France is operating. There tough terms include exclusive. Meaning you must delete your thing out of America or wherever to enable sales.
Thats bigger than a failed kickstarter or ten or a hundred.
All those commisions going to clever France. Well done to them. Even we in New Zealand have to use them. Daily the draining continues.
Thats far bigger than kickstarter but maybe you have not been bought off and are allowed to say whats going on. But many are bought off and many do know cause i know they know but they, sold out is the harsh wording on them.
I feel sorry for them. Imagine trying to respect yourself as a sell out.
They may regret it when old age puts there feet back on the ground.
Anyway theres bigger fish than kickstarter flops.
Newbs are being eaten and some get stripped of there ownerships when lack of education by there so called influencer lets them down cause they mostly kept in the dark on vids of unclogging tips and plastic dragon prints or reviewing another cheap peg printer.
What are you talking about? I'm sorry for being critical, especially if English is not your native language, however I must say that I find both of your comments completely incoherent.
I am personally interested in the video about Kickstarter. I think that is an issue that is worth talking about.
I have no idea what you are trying to suggest is a more important issue, but there is plenty of bandwidth on TH-cam for people to talk about multiple things.
@@danielabrams555 yaye for bandwidth. Tho english salad my words my points are value of effect to the comunity of America not having operating business services anywhere is disapointing. I bet you can understand my words well enough. Can you sell me your 3d print invention ownership within America? No you cant.
Hows my english now?
You can check and call any influencer call them all. Many do know im 100% correct. Tho its not popular when the game for many is rope a newb, oh sell em a peg printer. Ha likeing me or my english is not much when business of millions of people around the world try to buy and sell. France has managed to resume business 7 months ago. Yip exclusive terms you must delete your things out of America and here in New Zealand and migrate them to France then delete them from where ever you were from. All those sales commisions off to France.
Congrates to them.
I love explaining this to newbs who feel all educated with there grammer.
I perfer math.
Let me know if you have any questions there is bandwith and im the expert. Grammer aside.
I wish you nice success.
Be well from Will and Mr Data :):]
@@danielabrams555 Try find a legit print farm is also this weeks challenge.
Did they license check the print sale and pay the required royalty?
To not is piracy.
Designed it your self and plan to sell a print. Getting shut down cause it was already invented and licensed sux so license check no matter where stl came from. Even free thingiverse things cause it could be a pirate upload.
If someone doesn’t talk about the subject you want to talk about, whatever that is, then don’t complain about it. You are free to make your own video about what you want to say. Though I don’t expect many people to follow you as your point is not coming across clearly. I’ve read your posts three times and it feels like the ramblings about copyright laws, Thingiverse, printer farms, and COVID. I have no idea what a peg printer is but you are just missing flat Earth, migration, and alien conspiracies.
What total nonsense, incoherent rambling about goodness knows what.
The video is about Kickstarter.
Have a comment about Kickstarter then post away.
Otherwise go away.
It’s a scam
I backed a product that came in 3 versions, my choice was the version that had everything so I sent the $5800 US dollars only to find out the version I backed is no longer getting made but they insisted on sending me the lower specked unit but wanted an extra $1120 US dollars I said please refund my money. That was 3 years ago to date my money is not refunded.
That's a really unfortunate outcome. What was the product?
@@TeachingTech the organisations are responsible for sorting out scammers. How do I get my money?
The comunity is often lead by influencers who are often more interested in rope a newb. Sell em cheap yoda head printers.
How to be in business in the industry is the most common not teached thing. Ive started a mission to get influencers to name a legit farm. Cause i know most aint even close in my opinion from being at this since before thingiverse.
My personal bet is nobody is going to be able to name and prove a legit farm. I dont think failed kick starters is a pimple on the issues in the industry. Its likely like many just talk of whats not a meaning full issue cause that might put newbs off joining or buying another printer.
I bet this channel cant name a legit farm. One we can send a hidden camera into and they license check the print sale and pay the required royalty.
Pirate print farms are robbing and steeling from the honest comunity and are easy to find and test and theres lots who should be closed down. Its not a loss to the comunity its a boost to the value jobs and businesses of the honest people.
Kickstarter is a tiny issue.
Try go bigger from this vid. Can you do that? Do you support honest farms and comunity? Or piracy?
The issues I have with this is Kickstarter do not enforce their own terms and conditions the obsidian for example we spent years complaining to Kickstarter that Kodama were not keeping us informed at all and they did nothing till they eventually closed it down. So if they do not enforce what they say are their rules then in my opinion it’s meaningless.
From my experience Kickstarter have absolutely no interest in doing anything, I know they are not responsible for delivering the products but according to their rules they are responsible for ensuring that the backers are at least kept informed and they don’t do that. The creality cr6 I got that but mine had a lot of faults and because it wasn’t a retail product I got no help. Parts failed and I had to source and pay for replacement parts myself. Also the retail products went on sale before all backers got their Kickstarter printers and when they went on sale some of the retail prices were cheaper than the Kickstarter ones. Admittedly the delayed deliveries were few but it’s still not a good situation.
My experience with creality and Kickstarter makes me believe they were doing this for two reasons, one, the marketing as has been mentioned and two, they could ship thousand of printers and not worry if parts were untested and problematic and would fail as they had no responsibility or intention to support anyone and had no responsibility to repair, replace or fix any broken parts.
The issues I have with TH-camrs reviewing Kickstarter products is they gloss over Kickstarter do not explain what it is and what the risks are and give a misleading impression that Kickstarter is a shop.
Saying that someone should do their homework and investigate Kickstarter is not good enough in my opinion and it should be addressed in every single video that involves Kickstarter exactly what it is and exactly what the risk is.
Not all TH-cam reviewers do this and I think this is wrong.
As an example of a good review see Joel Tellings review of this Carbon x1 printer he was very forceful with his warnings.
Several others just stated it was Kickstarter and that was it and they produced a glowing review of this printer with no warnings or anything.
I will not name the reviewers I am sure you have seen the ones I refer to.
I don’t watch them now. I unfollowed them, I am not wasting my time listening to someone I do not trust when they mislead their viewers.
Perhaps mislead is a bit strong but I no longer trust them to do an honest review as any honest review in my opinion must include a full explanation of what Kickstarter is and what the risks are.
I will not back another Kickstarter ever.
Thanks for sharing. Part of the reason I am making this video is so I can refer to it anytime I cover a product related to Kickstarter in future. I will still have warnings in those videos but linking to this will make it more comprehensive.