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I wrote an essay for university on how the lead up to Pearl Harbour began with Theodore Roosevelt's arbitration of the Russo-Japanese war. I got a C because the professor disagreed, said I pulled my ideas out of context, and that I should have just focused on the Japanese invasion of China and the trade embargoes. I mentioned everything in this video, especially the Treaty of Versailles and the unequal naval treaties. After watching this, I've never felt so vindicated in my life.
My professor in French history didn't get why I called the Ancien Regime feudal, you know despite the majority of France at the time being ruled by landlord nobles with peasants still being required to adjudicate things in their courts normally. Not to mention, of course, the absolutist monarchy was in the tussle it was in right before the Revolution because it jerryrigged its powers together by agreeing not to tax the nobles so they didn't use the rights of the Estates and the Parlements which were you know feudal in origin.
History essays should be graded on the quality of the argument, not on whether the lecturer agrees with you. Roosevelt got the Nobel Peace Prize for arbitrating the Russo-Japan peace. I guess the committee didn't ask the Central/Southern Americans what they thought of him If I recall correctly the revolutionaries declared feudalism abolished, then tried to define it. Oops.
@@fullmoontales1749 Well I guess OP felt he did argue well and then got dinged for having his "facts" wrong. I was talking about a class discussion where the professor essentially told me I was wrong to my face, and just because the Revolutionaries could not define Feudalism does not mean they were not in revolt against an essentially feudal government.
I did remember somebody wrote a book titled "World War Zero" that did argue that the road to December 7, 1941 really started in Annapolis, MD in 1905. The Japanese really did feel like they got a raw deal from the treaty, enough to start riots. TR desire to make the US a world power left it with two enemies: Japan (who already has developed a sense of paranoia against them) and Russia (for "betraying" them). Tye 1905 treaty, though it saved Russia, ended the 100+ year Special Relationship the US and Russia forged...
Wanting to be a world power usually does create enemies. Often the existing ones. The Britian to AMerica transition of global hegemony (give or take a degree of control and influence) is rare in that the fading power (Britain) didn't lose a war to the rising one (USA), but simply couldn't compete for internal economic and politicla reasons Obviously the USA exisst because of the War of Independence, to oversimplify, and winning/surviving the War of 1812, but they never actually conquered Britain and forced them to be a vassal or province. They just unlocked enough of North AMerica's resources to build a big enough fleet to rule the waves like Britain had tried
Y'all should do a series dedicated to the annexation of Hawaii. You guys are literally the only channel who does Pacific history and I know you will do a great job of it. If extra history videos are books, the last time we saw the Kingdom of Hawaii was them signing up by the hundreds to fight in the American Civil War and in this series they are annexed.
@@crapshot321 They did a series on Kamehameha the Great but the series ends with the beginning of the end for Hawaii but not the actual annexation. There are other series that briefly touch on Hawaii, like the Pacific Exploration and Sun-Yat Sen, but nothing on its fall.
I have to agree with @malachiphoniex8501. I know that the annexation of Hawaii would have been too big to go into detail for the scope of this series. However, what was stated in this video is the simplified version of the annexation of Hawaii. For instance, indeed, there were a few businessmen (known as the Big Five, who were Christian missionary descendants) who staged a coup to overthrow the Hawaiian Kingdom Monarchy. Moreover, their coup was supported by the US American Navy due to false reports that American interests and lives being endangered. In response to those claims, the US Navy was given an order for all US Naval ships to anchor off of Honolulu Harbor and aim their cannons directly at Iolani Palace; then known as capital of the Hawaiian Kingdom. Some of your videos hint at the overthrow and annexation, but a mini-series or series of the pathway to Hawaii's Annexation would be appreciated. Anyway, keep up the excellent work! Looking forward to videos of this series and other world history subjects.
@@grsd8069 Plus, it's an important topic for how literally one of the fifty states came into the union. I feel like I got one of the better history educations in schools and I literally learned about Hawaiian history in a paragraph. And just on a fun note, Extra Credits seems to have certain national histories they like to follow, namely Ireland and Japan, why not make Hawaii one of these ongoing series.
@Malachi Phoniex AlternateHistoryHub did a very informative video on if Hawaii was never annexed. Its not just alternate history, explained what actually happened in detail and explained that by the annexation Hawaii was already controlled so much by US immigrant families it was inevitable that they would control the island, so the annexation itself wasn’t the big event.
Yeah, in most school textbooks, they only really lightly discuss embargoes and the events of December 7th when Pearl Harbor comes up. I'm glad you're giving the events a more nuanced analysis.
Sense when, where I'm at it either never gets discussed or is just brushed off as a "Oh yeah, this happened; anyways" sort of thing; I'm saying this because I honestly don't remember anything from history/Social Studies class. And I live in a more forward thinking state in the USA, New York, so don't ask me what the hell went wrong because I don't know myself.
@@nathanseper8738 Oh, really? Thanks for telling me that, now everything makes sense as too why every single class from pre-school to 12th Grade was so forgettable, because that's just how they operate, thank you very much doc, thank you so much. =)
You can always look at one event with all the knowledge and hindsight and say "Why didn't they just do this?" The answer is that they are not us, they don't know what's going to come out of it. And for the most part, these people either were to prideful, to naive, or to scared. Leading to the events we see. Most didn't want war, but were either in it for themself, their nation, or some other gain that put everyone else at risk.
One thing that should be mentioned off to the side is that the US Navy ran a series of Fleet Problem exercises from the 1920s until WWII. At least one of those exercises included the surprise carrier bombing of US military installations in the Hawaiian islands on a Sunday morning. There is a channel called Drachinifel that has covered these Fleet Problems in detail along with many things in naval history. It might be a good channel for those looking for more depth on these topics might want to visit. As an example, there is a 2+ hour video on the Zero. They "cut it short" to not "get into the weeds".
Yup, I watched the Fleet Problems videos from Drach. He noted that it seemed to be a theme of attacking Hawaii by aircraft carrier planes and succeeding.
@@kaltaron1284 one of the funniest out of nowhere appearances by Drach was on the Animarchy video about the Russian Imperial Cruiser Aurora. Drach guest stars as Kamchatcha. And does nothing by says "hello" in the video like 3 times. It's hilarious!
As someone who grew up not only in Hawaii but literally next to Pearl Harbor, I'm stoked you're covering this historical event with the level of detail it deserves. And btw, A++ on your Hawaiian pronunciation. I'm very impressed 👍
Naval warfare is kinda crazy, two massive lumps of metal with loads of guys fire car sized shells at each other while floating around in shark infested water in basically the middle of no where.
And that's just what we have NOW - once upon a time, those chunks of metal were mere chunks of wood that would quickly catch fire in a fight, which means that you're burning alive atop an endless stretch of water.
Almost all the naval battles of WWII either happened within sight of land or around convoys. Even two WWII fleets with a radar watch and CAP would struggle to find each other on the open ocean. Battles do not happen in the middle of nowhere. They happen at strategic junctions where trade or supply routes cross each other. In WWI just putting ships into convoys, so there were perhaps 6 or 7 groups of ships in the North Atlantic heading each way was enough to prevent U-boats from finding them. In WWII Dornetz would set a patrol line of 10 boats covering 150 miles of sea or more and as often as not fail to find a convoy.
and the best part about it is that despite the massive lumps of metal being the main focus, those little flies they use above the sky tend to do the heavy lifting
With the Sengoku Jidai, End of the Samurai, Rise of Japanese Imperialism, and now WW2 in the Pacific, I'm loving the coverage you guys are giving to modern Japanese history! (Hopefully you'll keep it rolling with post-war Japan through to the present day. I've never understood how the "economic miracle" happened, turning Japanese from a devastated country to a modern innovative global superpower in so little time.)
It's got to do with a combination of large investments from the USA to rebuild, the fact they could[had] build their entire infrastructure from scratch with modern/nuclear era methods and that they had to compete with American industry. Also the fact that they had no 'military' meant all the R&D and funding that would normally go there went into the civilian sector instead.
The economic miracle stuff would be interesting. I would roll it into the topic of American occupation and cut it at the 1990s. I think retrospective history should have a buffer zone of 30 years. I would also love to see a series on the land war in Asia during WW2.
I guess we should ask for some Genpei war then. The economic rise of Japan is also indeed a very interesting topic. Maybe finish it with the collapse of the Bubble Economy.
@@kaltaron1284 ^^^ this! Not that more recent Japanese history isn't interesting too (it definitely is), but if you start watching EC's Japanese history episodes in chronological order you're just kind of thrown into the Sengoku period with very little context. A series on the collapse of the central government in Heian-kyo and how the Genpei war lead to the rise of the Kamakura shogunate would really help round off at least the major highlights of Japanese history. A lot of people might not even realize Japan *had* a strong central government prior to the medieval era, and the story of how the country fragmented is probably more relevant to a lot of people today (especially if you're American) than some more recent stuff.
My great Grandfather Edward nickname “Eddie” was stationed at Pearl Harbor. He was on the enterprise. Well luckily the enterprise was wide heard from my family, broke down in the middle of the ocean but later found out that they were out doing practice divebombing during the attack and I am thankful that he wasn’t currently at the harbor during the attack. He later died December 10, 2001.
This episode touches on SOOOO many historical topics you already covered! The end of the XIng Empire, the aftermath of the end of the samurai and the American civil war!!
I’m not sure if this was covered in previous videos, but a significant factor was the political maneuvering of the IJN and IJA, particularly the latter, to gain and exercise more control over the Japanese Diet. Eventually this will have to be brought up, because the political atmosphere led to Admiral Yonai stepping aside for Yamamoto to become CinC of the Combined Fleet and for him to choose the decisive first strike against Pearl Harbor. As with most history, there are a LOT of interrelated people and groups. The history of the lead up to Pearl Harbor fills volumes. John Toland’s book does a thorough job explaining the Japanese government prior to the Pacific War.
This channel really seems to love Japan with how many series it has gotten (for example I don’t think Spain, Italy Thailand and Mexico have had any, although some mentions and for first two there is at least Rome episodes).
I think it's that one of them is an expert on East Asian history, so their wheelhouse is like China, Korea and Japan. Therefore all the East Asia videos
For those of you interested in the IJN and it's perspective just before and during the war I recommend the book The End of the Imperial Japanese Navy by Masanori Ito. It's a great read, beautifully written, and by the end had me crying with it's ending message. Its a must read for those interested around this topic
I'd still love to see a series on the end of the Heian period, the Genpei War, and the transition to the Kamakura shogunate. EC has a nice little run of Japanese history series now, and that particular chapter of Japanese history HEAVILY informs a lot of what they've already covered (especially the Sengoku episodes!)
I like that you're using assumed knowledge from previous seasons to cut down o exposition, it means you can get more in depth with the topic at hand. Please keep it up, it's a positive change and opens so many doors to revisit previously explored areas. This is a call for a look at post independence India in some manner.
Say, I know it’s a small thing but the relatively large island of Palawan seems to be missing from the Philippine map here. If the Philippines is imagined like a cat sleeping on its side, Palawan would be the front legs. The Palawan was part of it during the Spanish and US occupations.
I want to do some research on the Sino-Japanese Wars sometime. I don't actually know much about them, especially when compared with many of the other events mentioned here around the same period.😅 Thank you guys for another excellent video! Merry Christmas out there everybody! ✝️🎄
As a kid, my parents took me to the USS Arizona Memorial (spoiler alert! : o) and Museum at Pearl Harbor when my dad was stationed in Hawaii. I loved it. I couldn't get enough. I boggled my mind that things could be so different from how they were today. It started my passion for history and wondering about the world.
One thing I should point out: the Washington Naval Treaty _was not_ intended to deliberately hinder Japanese Naval armament. One of the (many) events that lead up to the First World War was the naval arms race between Britain & Germany, and the WNT was meant to limit that build up to prevent another major war. As for the allotment each navy was given in building ships, it was far more complicated than simply one side wanting an advantage. You see, while it is true that Japan was only allocated 3 ships for every 5 that was allowed for Britain & America, Japan at the time did not have the same level of industrial capacity as the other two countries. In fact, at their then-current production output rate at the treaty’s implementation (or even during the Pacific War) they actually could not build that much more than the WNT limited. If anything, the WNT was _more restrictive to the American and British Navies,_ who both had a much higher industrial output and could produce more ships. Admiral Yamamoto actually insisted on Japan abiding by the treaty since he knew that the US alone would outproduce the Empire at a far greater rate than the treaty allocated. Another reason for the treaty’s allocation rate was simply a case of geography and practical necessity for the signatories. The British still had their vast empire back then spanning several seas & oceans and would need as many ships as possible to defend her interests and distribute them accordingly. The US is right in between two major oceans and needed to have enough ships on both sides of the continent. Japan, on the other hand, only had at the time her Home Islands, Korea, Formosa, the Ryukyus, and a few smaller islands received from Germany after WWI, all of which were within the vicinity of the Northwest Pacific Ocean. These were relatively smaller holdings compared to the British and the Americans and they ultimately would not have needed as much as the other two nations.
Thanks for pointing this out. I hope it gets adressed in the Lies. While the debate of "who "won" the naval treaties of Washington and London" is stil ongoing (some say britian, some say the US and both have valid arguments), japan didn't necessarily "lose".
This would be a perfectly acceptable argument except for 2 things: 1. Racism exists I said just a few seconds before the US very specifically blocked any wording about racial equality. 2. The Future... The US could out-produce Japan because the US is/was gigantic with resources all over the place. The UK could out-produce Japan because its colonial empire was gigantic with resources all over the place. One of the main reasons Japan took Manchuria was for its resources. Not to mention a population of people that could be forced to work. Even in the 21st century the Chinese are major world manufacturers. Imagine if Japan had forced Chinese industrial manufacturing for its empire. On paper everything you said is true but evidence speaks to the contrary.
Great video as usual EC! I really hope you'd eventually get to the Philippine American War and how the American government betrayed a budding Philippine republic.
I remember that being a Patreon candidate a while ago, so there's definitely interest among the patrons. I think it lost to the Easter Rising. That doesn't mean it can't be a candidate for a later series, though.
@@GeneralLuigiTBC A worthy loss in my opinion. Ironically, as an American I know less about Irish history than Pacific history. I don't if that's a norm or I'm just weird.
The things that happened during the First Philippine Republic are being repeated throughout present day. The consiquences of the past still haunts our current society...
I love that the series on the Sengoku Jidai perfectly dovetails into the series on the Fall of the Samurai, which then flows into the series on Japanese Militarism, before concluding with the lead-up to Pearl Harbor. You should do a series on the Plaza Accord and the Tokyo Asset Bubble.
The Washington Naval Treaty was actually pretty beneficial for Japan, although they couldn't have known it at the time. By restricting the UK and especially the US to a 5 to 3 ratio, Japan kept them much closer in fleet size than what they would unleash in WW2. 24 fleet carriers and 175 destroyers of a single class of each (among other things) is quite a bit more than 5 to 3 after all.
This was still a problem for Japan not so much the size but the tonage. Japan knew of course even if they want unless they realy have a qick victory over China and then enough Resources they could not match the US and GB in production.
@@kaltaron1284 Kinda this. Also Japan was ironic enough only alowed this many Ships since GB/US dont thought Japan would ever atack them. But it was also still a way of kinda dissing them by beoing alowed less ships then US/GB.
@@kaltaron1284 you bet your ass they would have, peacetime America had the third largest fleet prior to WWI and had increased that to the second largest by the time we entered the war.
@@susakuzero Thats not really the case, the idea was that GB/US were both Pacific and Atlantic fleets and Japan was only Pacific. Its also worth noting that Japan actually was allowed more than France and Italy within the same treaty who were both allowed about half the tonnage of Japan.
I love these videos. I've been a massive fan for years! So much so that I actually made my own channel (it focuses on History as well) thank you for the inspiration!
Finally, after seen the events of both superpowers in Extra Credits it is time for the diplomatic dance between these giants. It's a facinating concept. You have talked about Japan's expansionism, its militarism and also US racial depates and their expansionism. All of those things are playing a role for the coming events. It's like you are tying the nods together for the big event.
I hope you guys mention the other attacks in the battle of Oahu. Everyone always forgets that there are multiple US Military bases and stations on the island, and that all of them received fire.
WOW this is odd. I was literally just thinking about pearl harbor and WW2, i go to check my youtube reccomendations, and you guys release this. Great job but tell zoey to cool it on the mind reading.
8:25 A major reason the Japanese received ratio at the 1922 Washington Naval Treaty that looks unfavorable on the surface was the fact that the USN and RN had to keep their fleet dispersed to meet their strategic commitments (Two Ocean defense in the case of the former, an international empire spread from London to Hong Kong in the latter case). Japan would be much more able to concentrate all its forces in a single spot. The ratios for all practical purposes gave Japan a seat at the head of the table in the Pacific.
What you just said just confirms that the treaty was unfavourable. It does not change the underlying result of crippling Japanese naval power in the pacific. Whilst not endorsing colonialism myself, this must at the time have been hypocritical to the Japanese who would have wanted colonies of their own and saw no reason why their efforts should be hampered by countries who needed to spread out their forces because they already had carved out and enjoyed the economic benefits of their colonies.
I first heard about nebula through legal eagle. I'm happy to see that this is becoming a growing trend on a lot of the interests that I subscribe to on TH-cam
As someone that has an interest in World War II, this video was very enjoyable. Speaking of the Washington Naval Treaty, in the Mass Effect series the Treaty of Farixen is based of the Washington Naval Treaty.
4:26 This treaty led to many interesting aircraft carrier conversion projects-such as Akagi，Kaga，Lexington，and Saratoga. The former two was the aircraft carriers of CarDiv 1，a unit of Kido Butai of IJN that participated in the attack of Pearl Harbor.
Glosses over how much the Japanese Navy was in favor of the arms limit because 10 to 7 is way better odds then the 20 or 30 to 7 that US and Japanese economies could sustain. The biggest problem was that it was a few percent lower than what Japan estimated they'd need to properly defend themselves.
Hey. You guys seems to be missing the links in the descripton thats mentioned at 1:40 that has some background info that you say are important to this one.
I hope you remember that ships were supposed to be safe in Pearl Harbor. After all it was shallow port. No torpedo could work in such conditions. Also engineers do like a challenge.
I sure hope you guys get to talk about the battle of wake island as well sometime! My Great Great Grandfather was a civilian on the island and then later a Japanese POW. It is sad that chapter of the pacific theater is never talked about.
Japan had been violating the Washington Treaty in major ways long before the treaty was officially ended. While the US and British had launched some ships that broke the treaty, they did so in rather small ways and the US and British both kinda looked the other way so long as the violations were small (500 or a 1000 extra tons on a cruiser or something). Japan on the other hand did it in a big way and had done it for a long time. sm
You missed the fact that a major part of US Pacific expansion was the an act in 1856 called the Guano Islands Act that allowed US citizens to claim any island they found in the pacific that was not under the government of another country. This was because the US really really loved bird poop as it was still very agriculturally based. It was extremely high in nitrogen and thus made fantastic fertilizer in an age before synthetic fertilizers. Pacific Islands were caked in the stuff as birds migrating through would just densely pack these islands/atolls for thousands of years. The US would claim several places that werent even above water until the tides receded. At least when I took a class on the US expansion in the Pacific when I was in college (a long time ago), the whaling industry was never really brought up as a reason for expansion. I could be misremembering that aspect though, it's a lot easier to remember that the US claimed large swaths of the pacific hunting for bird poo.
Claiming Pacific islands didn't make Japan interesting for them though. Needing open ports for whaling ships did. It's also interesting how they exploited the Japanese currency. Gold was undervalued there so they would buy stuff with silver and recieve gold as payment. Which was quite a bit of a drain on the Japanese economy.
@@kaltaron1284 So heres the thing, whaling was a mostly coastal, not a deep sea type of trade. The main reason for whaling back then was not the bones, but the oil produced was used for lighting and the meat. Obviously meat and fat spoil (esp pre refrigeration) , so they cant go too far from coastal areas. However, especially after the civil war, you had railroads delivering kerosene everywhere, gutting the industry. Whaling was only done in areas that werent connected via rail (like Alaska) or native tribes. Basically, the statement about whaling doesnt fit my knowledge, nor basic logical analysis. Im not all knowing, there maybe some factor Im missing, but as you can see, I'm kinda sus that whaling was a thing on anyones from the US's mind in the Pacific. Bird poo or missionaries? Sure! Workers to gather the bird poop? Definitely a +! (as no one wanted do that job for obvious reasons). Outside of that, you had to go close to Asia for anything worthwhile to trade back then. Also the gold to silver isnt too bad (not great, but not disastrous). Back then there was still the opium issues in China (in fact they were ramping up). I believe that silver was the main currency being used to pay for the opium imports, so they needed lots of it. It did hurt Japan when they wanted Western goods, but its not like they were trading for sea shells that were worthless everywhere else. The US actually protested the system at first because they thought it was unfair to them because they would lose on the silver to silver trade in terms of the coinage exchange rate, but then realized they could exploit the gold value after Japan rejected changing exchange rates.
@@Kyrephare Good points. I don't remember where I learned that whaling was part of their interests. Why else would they want to open Hakodate in addition to Shimoda in the Treaty of Kanagawa? Well, they got more rights four years later with the Treaty of Amity and Commerce anyway.
@@kaltaron1284 I went into a bit of a rabbit hole. So there was some whaling in the pacific, the name Starbuck was actually a family name that appeared in Moby Dick, but is also a clan of sailors from the Massachusetts who went whaling in the pacific. They didnt discover the island, but did name Starbuck Island in the middle of the pacific (when they were captaining a British whaling ship, as he was the first Westerner to step on the island). This was of course later claimed by the US under the Guano Act, and mined for Guano. Apparently the British were active in whaling in the Pacific, but not the US (atleast outside of the Baja area). However the US had a giant whaling industry in the North East, so many of their whalers went on British ships into the pacific. The British funding the whaling in the pacific? Why the Dutch East India company! But yeah it makes sense that the British Empire would have more "domestic" use of whale oil for lighting as the were more fragmented territoriality, and I dont know if they had access to oil/kerosene from a domestic source in their empire at the the time.
@@Kyrephare Interesting information. It's probably worth mentioning that the first treaty with Perry didn't include any trade but only refueling and stuff.
Alarm ⏰ goes of: *Sleeps* Extra Credits has uploaded a video: *wakes up slightly* It’s about Naval History: *eyes Widen* It’s pearl harbour: *Jumps out of the bed*
Dude, you totally missed a perfect opportunity for a space balls reference with the episode release dates. Could of had a "when will then be now" going on.
I'll admit I still try to honor on Dec 7th, as I am a US Navy veteran, but I also try to celbrate it as while not on the same year I was born on Dec 7th. My Grandfather as also there when it happened.
Isn't London Naval Treaty even more controversial for Japan, I mean WNT limit the capital ship tonnage like battleship and battlecruiser but didn't limit the tonnage for Heavy Cruiser that Japan now called "super mini battleship" Or something
I learned in college that the Washington Naval Treaty actually favored the Japanese. The British and US Navies needed to exert a presence in at least two oceans while the Japanese only needed a presence in one. Even during WWII the Japanese only reached into the Indian Ocean and not beyond. Given that reach the ratio in the Pacific was actually Britain 2.5, US 2.5, Japan 3. Obviously the US and Britain could redeploy portions of their fleet, but not without weakening it's presence in the Atlantic or elsewhere. With Britain an island nation with extensive colonies redeployment would be risky. That left the US whose major cities and ports were, at the time, on the Atlantic and Gulf Coast. And so the Washington Naval Treaty and the subsequent London treaty significantly benefited Japan. That didn't satisfy the militarists, but it gave Japan a significant head start.
For people out there wanting a video on Hawaii, go to knowing better channel and watch “overthrowing a Kingdom”-Hawaii” along with I feel like the most important part being from 6:30- 7:10
Do not suggest it. Knowing Better is quite leftist and places modern moral understandings on everything in the past; something absurd when trying to understand something. Worse yet, its only done against Western and Western-aligned countries, giving non-Western countries a pass.
8:30 Not said was that the Japanese economy was severely strained even trying to reach that ratio. In reality, the treaty constrained America much more (since America could afford to build a much larger Navy) than Japan, but that's not something nationalists usually care about.
Yes and no. This still limited Japan how they could build and design their Ships. Also Japan could have build more CVs or BBs if they wanted but they actualy decided to build more smaller Ships instead which was not a completly wrong decision from a Strategic Point of View. Also while it limited the US and GB too it was also kinda an Arongant way of showing we are better then you so we are allowad to have more toys then you.
@@susakuzero They were better than Japan at the time. Both had the industrial might to completely overshadow Japan when it was signed. Though it is quite possible that there was a snobbery there since the US and UK were often allied to each other and would not be concerned with each other's power but with the rising powers of other nations like Japan and Germany.
You can watch The Path to Pearl Harbor part 2 without ads AND get exclusive content right MEOW Just go to curiositystream.com/extracredits to get a full year of Curiosity Stream & Nebula for just $11.59
please do Magelon next
Please do Texas revolution
why not just wait for the next video for free, and the videos are too short for in between ads besides at the start.
@@onehitkill5816 seems to be working for them
@@onehitkill5816 because they also have some which are exclusive to Nebula as well I believe
I wrote an essay for university on how the lead up to Pearl Harbour began with Theodore Roosevelt's arbitration of the Russo-Japanese war. I got a C because the professor disagreed, said I pulled my ideas out of context, and that I should have just focused on the Japanese invasion of China and the trade embargoes. I mentioned everything in this video, especially the Treaty of Versailles and the unequal naval treaties. After watching this, I've never felt so vindicated in my life.
My professor in French history didn't get why I called the Ancien Regime feudal, you know despite the majority of France at the time being ruled by landlord nobles with peasants still being required to adjudicate things in their courts normally. Not to mention, of course, the absolutist monarchy was in the tussle it was in right before the Revolution because it jerryrigged its powers together by agreeing not to tax the nobles so they didn't use the rights of the Estates and the Parlements which were you know feudal in origin.
History essays should be graded on the quality of the argument, not on whether the lecturer agrees with you.
Roosevelt got the Nobel Peace Prize for arbitrating the Russo-Japan peace. I guess the committee didn't ask the Central/Southern Americans what they thought of him
If I recall correctly the revolutionaries declared feudalism abolished, then tried to define it. Oops.
@@fullmoontales1749 Well I guess OP felt he did argue well and then got dinged for having his "facts" wrong. I was talking about a class discussion where the professor essentially told me I was wrong to my face, and just because the Revolutionaries could not define Feudalism does not mean they were not in revolt against an essentially feudal government.
I did remember somebody wrote a book titled "World War Zero" that did argue that the road to December 7, 1941 really started in Annapolis, MD in 1905. The Japanese really did feel like they got a raw deal from the treaty, enough to start riots. TR desire to make the US a world power left it with two enemies: Japan (who already has developed a sense of paranoia against them) and Russia (for "betraying" them). Tye 1905 treaty, though it saved Russia, ended the 100+ year Special Relationship the US and Russia forged...
Wanting to be a world power usually does create enemies. Often the existing ones. The Britian to AMerica transition of global hegemony (give or take a degree of control and influence) is rare in that the fading power (Britain) didn't lose a war to the rising one (USA), but simply couldn't compete for internal economic and politicla reasons
Obviously the USA exisst because of the War of Independence, to oversimplify, and winning/surviving the War of 1812, but they never actually conquered Britain and forced them to be a vassal or province. They just unlocked enough of North AMerica's resources to build a big enough fleet to rule the waves like Britain had tried
Y'all should do a series dedicated to the annexation of Hawaii. You guys are literally the only channel who does Pacific history and I know you will do a great job of it. If extra history videos are books, the last time we saw the Kingdom of Hawaii was them signing up by the hundreds to fight in the American Civil War and in this series they are annexed.
I think they already did, you would have to go through the playlists to find it however.
@@crapshot321 They did a series on Kamehameha the Great but the series ends with the beginning of the end for Hawaii but not the actual annexation. There are other series that briefly touch on Hawaii, like the Pacific Exploration and Sun-Yat Sen, but nothing on its fall.
I have to agree with @malachiphoniex8501. I know that the annexation of Hawaii would have been too big to go into detail for the scope of this series. However, what was stated in this video is the simplified version of the annexation of Hawaii. For instance, indeed, there were a few businessmen (known as the Big Five, who were Christian missionary descendants) who staged a coup to overthrow the Hawaiian Kingdom Monarchy. Moreover, their coup was supported by the US American Navy due to false reports that American interests and lives being endangered. In response to those claims, the US Navy was given an order for all US Naval ships to anchor off of Honolulu Harbor and aim their cannons directly at Iolani Palace; then known as capital of the Hawaiian Kingdom. Some of your videos hint at the overthrow and annexation, but a mini-series or series of the pathway to Hawaii's Annexation would be appreciated. Anyway, keep up the excellent work! Looking forward to videos of this series and other world history subjects.
@@grsd8069 Plus, it's an important topic for how literally one of the fifty states came into the union. I feel like I got one of the better history educations in schools and I literally learned about Hawaiian history in a paragraph. And just on a fun note, Extra Credits seems to have certain national histories they like to follow, namely Ireland and Japan, why not make Hawaii one of these ongoing series.
@Malachi Phoniex
AlternateHistoryHub did a very informative video on if Hawaii was never annexed. Its not just alternate history, explained what actually happened in detail and explained that by the annexation Hawaii was already controlled so much by US immigrant families it was inevitable that they would control the island, so the annexation itself wasn’t the big event.
Yeah, in most school textbooks, they only really lightly discuss embargoes and the events of December 7th when Pearl Harbor comes up. I'm glad you're giving the events a more nuanced analysis.
Sense when, where I'm at it either never gets discussed or is just brushed off as a "Oh yeah, this happened; anyways" sort of thing; I'm saying this because I honestly don't remember anything from history/Social Studies class. And I live in a more forward thinking state in the USA, New York, so don't ask me what the hell went wrong because I don't know myself.
@@tommyfox854 Public school history tends to brush over the nuances of world history. Hence why things like World War II are often oversimplified.
@@nathanseper8738 Oh, really? Thanks for telling me that, now everything makes sense as too why every single class from pre-school to 12th Grade was so forgettable, because that's just how they operate, thank you very much doc, thank you so much. =)
@@tommyfox854 You're welcome.
You can always look at one event with all the knowledge and hindsight and say "Why didn't they just do this?" The answer is that they are not us, they don't know what's going to come out of it. And for the most part, these people either were to prideful, to naive, or to scared. Leading to the events we see. Most didn't want war, but were either in it for themself, their nation, or some other gain that put everyone else at risk.
Don’t you mean “hindsight” as In looking back?
They also were raised in a completely different way and time than us
@@commanderstorm8874 That too.
Perhaps peace and not fighting would be the best option; but no that would seem as being weak.
@@leggonarm9835 As it always is.
One thing that should be mentioned off to the side is that the US Navy ran a series of Fleet Problem exercises from the 1920s until WWII. At least one of those exercises included the surprise carrier bombing of US military installations in the Hawaiian islands on a Sunday morning. There is a channel called Drachinifel that has covered these Fleet Problems in detail along with many things in naval history. It might be a good channel for those looking for more depth on these topics might want to visit. As an example, there is a 2+ hour video on the Zero. They "cut it short" to not "get into the weeds".
Yup, I watched the Fleet Problems videos from Drach. He noted that it seemed to be a theme of attacking Hawaii by aircraft carrier planes and succeeding.
IMHO some of the best videos he has done, was on the Voyage of the Damned. Oh man, all those innocent binoculars.
Ah, a fellow fan of Drachinifel I see ;)
There were actually quite a few Fleet Problems where an aerial attack on Hawaii was part of both the attacking and defending parts of The Problem.
@@kaltaron1284 one of the funniest out of nowhere appearances by Drach was on the Animarchy video about the Russian Imperial Cruiser Aurora. Drach guest stars as Kamchatcha. And does nothing by says "hello" in the video like 3 times. It's hilarious!
1:44 "But now onto the infamy." Seemed to me like such a cool little line (obviously referencing the famous speech).
As someone who grew up not only in Hawaii but literally next to Pearl Harbor, I'm stoked you're covering this historical event with the level of detail it deserves.
And btw, A++ on your Hawaiian pronunciation. I'm very impressed 👍
Naval warfare is kinda crazy, two massive lumps of metal with loads of guys fire car sized shells at each other while floating around in shark infested water in basically the middle of no where.
And that's just what we have NOW - once upon a time, those chunks of metal were mere chunks of wood that would quickly catch fire in a fight, which means that you're burning alive atop an endless stretch of water.
Almost all the naval battles of WWII either happened within sight of land or around convoys. Even two WWII fleets with a radar watch and CAP would struggle to find each other on the open ocean. Battles do not happen in the middle of nowhere. They happen at strategic junctions where trade or supply routes cross each other.
In WWI just putting ships into convoys, so there were perhaps 6 or 7 groups of ships in the North Atlantic heading each way was enough to prevent U-boats from finding them. In WWII Dornetz would set a patrol line of 10 boats covering 150 miles of sea or more and as often as not fail to find a convoy.
@@davidwright7193 I would count the middle of the the atlantic as the middle of no where
and the best part about it is that despite the massive lumps of metal being the main focus, those little flies they use above the sky tend to do the heavy lifting
What about the airplanes?
With the Sengoku Jidai, End of the Samurai, Rise of Japanese Imperialism, and now WW2 in the Pacific, I'm loving the coverage you guys are giving to modern Japanese history! (Hopefully you'll keep it rolling with post-war Japan through to the present day. I've never understood how the "economic miracle" happened, turning Japanese from a devastated country to a modern innovative global superpower in so little time.)
Boat loads of American money.
It's got to do with a combination of large investments from the USA to rebuild, the fact they could[had] build their entire infrastructure from scratch with modern/nuclear era methods and that they had to compete with American industry. Also the fact that they had no 'military' meant all the R&D and funding that would normally go there went into the civilian sector instead.
The economic miracle stuff would be interesting. I would roll it into the topic of American occupation and cut it at the 1990s. I think retrospective history should have a buffer zone of 30 years. I would also love to see a series on the land war in Asia during WW2.
I guess we should ask for some Genpei war then.
The economic rise of Japan is also indeed a very interesting topic. Maybe finish it with the collapse of the Bubble Economy.
@@kaltaron1284 ^^^ this! Not that more recent Japanese history isn't interesting too (it definitely is), but if you start watching EC's Japanese history episodes in chronological order you're just kind of thrown into the Sengoku period with very little context. A series on the collapse of the central government in Heian-kyo and how the Genpei war lead to the rise of the Kamakura shogunate would really help round off at least the major highlights of Japanese history. A lot of people might not even realize Japan *had* a strong central government prior to the medieval era, and the story of how the country fragmented is probably more relevant to a lot of people today (especially if you're American) than some more recent stuff.
Finally done pearl harbour, I’m so excited for this series.
And without a crappy Aerosmith song too
My great Grandfather Edward nickname “Eddie” was stationed at Pearl Harbor. He was on the enterprise. Well luckily the enterprise was wide heard from my family, broke down in the middle of the ocean but later found out that they were out doing practice divebombing during the attack and I am thankful that he wasn’t currently at the harbor during the attack. He later died December 10, 2001.
This episode touches on SOOOO many historical topics you already covered!
The end of the XIng Empire, the aftermath of the end of the samurai and the American civil war!!
I’m not sure if this was covered in previous videos, but a significant factor was the political maneuvering of the IJN and IJA, particularly the latter, to gain and exercise more control over the Japanese Diet. Eventually this will have to be brought up, because the political atmosphere led to Admiral Yonai stepping aside for Yamamoto to become CinC of the Combined Fleet and for him to choose the decisive first strike against Pearl Harbor.
As with most history, there are a LOT of interrelated people and groups. The history of the lead up to Pearl Harbor fills volumes. John Toland’s book does a thorough job explaining the Japanese government prior to the Pacific War.
As time goes on, Japan's history gets more and more context through this show lol
This channel really seems to love Japan with how many series it has gotten (for example I don’t think Spain, Italy Thailand and Mexico have had any, although some mentions and for first two there is at least Rome episodes).
I think it's that one of them is an expert on East Asian history, so their wheelhouse is like China, Korea and Japan. Therefore all the East Asia videos
I@@sarasamaletdin4574Italy just got 1 in the form of guiseppe garibaldi :)
For those of you interested in the IJN and it's perspective just before and during the war I recommend the book The End of the Imperial Japanese Navy by Masanori Ito. It's a great read, beautifully written, and by the end had me crying with it's ending message. Its a must read for those interested around this topic
Seems to be a bit difficult to get.
@@kaltaron1284 yeah I got lucky at a used book store, I'll see if I can find a PDF. If so I'll post it below.
I love that extra credits, in around 2-3 hours, can teach me a sizable chunk of Japanese history, from the warring states all the way to WW2
I'd still love to see a series on the end of the Heian period, the Genpei War, and the transition to the Kamakura shogunate. EC has a nice little run of Japanese history series now, and that particular chapter of Japanese history HEAVILY informs a lot of what they've already covered (especially the Sengoku episodes!)
Damn this channel has only gotten better in the past 7 years, not just consistency but improvement at an insane speed, Very Very Well made
5:09 I’m sure that’s the only time in history we’ll hear about a naval incident at Midway.
I like that you're using assumed knowledge from previous seasons to cut down o exposition, it means you can get more in depth with the topic at hand. Please keep it up, it's a positive change and opens so many doors to revisit previously explored areas. This is a call for a look at post independence India in some manner.
Say, I know it’s a small thing but the relatively large island of Palawan seems to be missing from the Philippine map here. If the Philippines is imagined like a cat sleeping on its side, Palawan would be the front legs. The Palawan was part of it during the Spanish and US occupations.
its funny they put many other smaller islands but an island as big as palawan is left out
Seeing different designs for maps, seeing what they included and what they didn't is always a fun puzzle
@@watching7721 the map of the Philippines as made by Spain , US and the present day PH governmrng always had Palawan.
I have been using yall as a supliment since primary school. Now in highschool, I actually have use for your videos. Thanks alot!
I envy you to have such excellent content to grow up with. Enjoy your study!
I want to do some research on the Sino-Japanese Wars sometime. I don't actually know much about them, especially when compared with many of the other events mentioned here around the same period.😅 Thank you guys for another excellent video!
Merry Christmas out there everybody! ✝️🎄
6:47- y'all excluded Palawan Island; it's bugged me since I watched this and Nebula, and I just felt the need to point it out.
As a kid, my parents took me to the USS Arizona Memorial (spoiler alert! : o) and Museum at Pearl Harbor when my dad was stationed in Hawaii. I loved it. I couldn't get enough. I boggled my mind that things could be so different from how they were today. It started my passion for history and wondering about the world.
Always enjoy a Extra Credit video.
Can’t wait to hear the rest of Pearl Harbor’s story
One thing I should point out: the Washington Naval Treaty _was not_ intended to deliberately hinder Japanese Naval armament.
One of the (many) events that lead up to the First World War was the naval arms race between Britain & Germany, and the WNT was meant to limit that build up to prevent another major war. As for the allotment each navy was given in building ships, it was far more complicated than simply one side wanting an advantage. You see, while it is true that Japan was only allocated 3 ships for every 5 that was allowed for Britain & America, Japan at the time did not have the same level of industrial capacity as the other two countries. In fact, at their then-current production output rate at the treaty’s implementation (or even during the Pacific War) they actually could not build that much more than the WNT limited. If anything, the WNT was _more restrictive to the American and British Navies,_ who both had a much higher industrial output and could produce more ships. Admiral Yamamoto actually insisted on Japan abiding by the treaty since he knew that the US alone would outproduce the Empire at a far greater rate than the treaty allocated.
Another reason for the treaty’s allocation rate was simply a case of geography and practical necessity for the signatories. The British still had their vast empire back then spanning several seas & oceans and would need as many ships as possible to defend her interests and distribute them accordingly. The US is right in between two major oceans and needed to have enough ships on both sides of the continent. Japan, on the other hand, only had at the time her Home Islands, Korea, Formosa, the Ryukyus, and a few smaller islands received from Germany after WWI, all of which were within the vicinity of the Northwest Pacific Ocean. These were relatively smaller holdings compared to the British and the Americans and they ultimately would not have needed as much as the other two nations.
So it was meant to be "As much as you need, but no more".
@@fullmoontales1749 essentially
Thanks for pointing this out.
I hope it gets adressed in the Lies.
While the debate of "who "won" the naval treaties of Washington and London" is stil ongoing (some say britian, some say the US and both have valid arguments), japan didn't necessarily "lose".
@@Bird_Dog00 they got the 3rd largest navy in the world, they definently didnt "lose"
This would be a perfectly acceptable argument except for 2 things:
1. Racism exists I said just a few seconds before the US very specifically blocked any wording about racial equality.
2. The Future... The US could out-produce Japan because the US is/was gigantic with resources all over the place. The UK could out-produce Japan because its colonial empire was gigantic with resources all over the place.
One of the main reasons Japan took Manchuria was for its resources. Not to mention a population of people that could be forced to work. Even in the 21st century the Chinese are major world manufacturers. Imagine if Japan had forced Chinese industrial manufacturing for its empire.
On paper everything you said is true but evidence speaks to the contrary.
I studied Pearl Harbor and the entire conflict for many many years and will continue to do so, but this helps me in my research
Great video as usual EC! I really hope you'd eventually get to the Philippine American War and how the American government betrayed a budding Philippine republic.
Ooof, that might be one the darkest extra history series yet. Definitely should be made but man, some things we did....
I remember that being a Patreon candidate a while ago, so there's definitely interest among the patrons. I think it lost to the Easter Rising. That doesn't mean it can't be a candidate for a later series, though.
@@GeneralLuigiTBC A worthy loss in my opinion. Ironically, as an American I know less about Irish history than Pacific history. I don't if that's a norm or I'm just weird.
Perfect!! Because that scenario is mentioned in my social studies class in my homeland.
The things that happened during the First Philippine Republic are being repeated throughout present day. The consiquences of the past still haunts our current society...
Thank you for going in depth about this, I don't think I learned this in school at all. Only from my grandparents and mom.
I love that the series on the Sengoku Jidai perfectly dovetails into the series on the Fall of the Samurai, which then flows into the series on Japanese Militarism, before concluding with the lead-up to Pearl Harbor. You should do a series on the Plaza Accord and the Tokyo Asset Bubble.
I'm excited for next week. I'm going to go binge on some other series you've made the last two years.
The Washington Naval Treaty was actually pretty beneficial for Japan, although they couldn't have known it at the time. By restricting the UK and especially the US to a 5 to 3 ratio, Japan kept them much closer in fleet size than what they would unleash in WW2. 24 fleet carriers and 175 destroyers of a single class of each (among other things) is quite a bit more than 5 to 3 after all.
You can't really compare war time production with peace time production. Would an isolationist USA have built that many warships if not at war?
This was still a problem for Japan not so much the size but the tonage. Japan knew of course even if they want unless they realy have a qick victory over China and then enough Resources they could not match the US and GB in production.
@@kaltaron1284
Kinda this. Also Japan was ironic enough only alowed this many Ships since GB/US dont thought Japan would ever atack them. But it was also still a way of kinda dissing them by beoing alowed less ships then US/GB.
@@kaltaron1284 you bet your ass they would have, peacetime America had the third largest fleet prior to WWI and had increased that to the second largest by the time we entered the war.
@@susakuzero Thats not really the case, the idea was that GB/US were both Pacific and Atlantic fleets and Japan was only Pacific. Its also worth noting that Japan actually was allowed more than France and Italy within the same treaty who were both allowed about half the tonnage of Japan.
6:47 Every graphics out there almost always sinks the island of Palawan.
Have you checked if the island is still there? Maybe the maps are right. ;-)
I love these videos. I've been a massive fan for years! So much so that I actually made my own channel (it focuses on History as well) thank you for the inspiration!
Finally, after seen the events of both superpowers in Extra Credits it is time for the diplomatic dance between these giants.
It's a facinating concept. You have talked about Japan's expansionism, its militarism and also US racial depates and their expansionism. All of those things are playing a role for the coming events.
It's like you are tying the nods together for the big event.
I hope you guys mention the other attacks in the battle of Oahu. Everyone always forgets that there are multiple US Military bases and stations on the island, and that all of them received fire.
They also didn't attack "only" Hawaii but the Phillipines at (about) the same time.
Do the Greek revolutionary war of 1821 against the ottoman empire next please.
I've been requesting this since the first sengoku jidai episodes
A video that is beneficial to watch in the current situation.
WOW this is odd. I was literally just thinking about pearl harbor and WW2, i go to check my youtube reccomendations, and you guys release this. Great job but tell zoey to cool it on the mind reading.
I love this channel so much. I learn new things all the time!
8:25 A major reason the Japanese received ratio at the 1922 Washington Naval Treaty that looks unfavorable on the surface was the fact that the USN and RN had to keep their fleet dispersed to meet their strategic commitments (Two Ocean defense in the case of the former, an international empire spread from London to Hong Kong in the latter case). Japan would be much more able to concentrate all its forces in a single spot. The ratios for all practical purposes gave Japan a seat at the head of the table in the Pacific.
What you just said just confirms that the treaty was unfavourable. It does not change the underlying result of crippling Japanese naval power in the pacific. Whilst not endorsing colonialism myself, this must at the time have been hypocritical to the Japanese who would have wanted colonies of their own and saw no reason why their efforts should be hampered by countries who needed to spread out their forces because they already had carved out and enjoyed the economic benefits of their colonies.
I first heard about nebula through legal eagle. I'm happy to see that this is becoming a growing trend on a lot of the interests that I subscribe to on TH-cam
Thanks been wanting for this
Finally I was waiting for this ! Thanks!
As someone that has an interest in World War II, this video was very enjoyable. Speaking of the Washington Naval Treaty, in the Mass Effect series the Treaty of Farixen is based of the Washington Naval Treaty.
4:26 This treaty led to many interesting aircraft carrier conversion projects-such as Akagi，Kaga，Lexington，and Saratoga. The former two was the aircraft carriers of CarDiv 1，a unit of Kido Butai of IJN that participated in the attack of Pearl Harbor.
This is off to a good start. I'm looking forward to it.
Great thing I have Nebula!
Finally I've been waiting for so long for this
As a aspiring historian in college at the moment I find all of these video fascinating. Keep up the good work guys?
Another amazing vid keep up guys!
Finally! The Pacific War. As a warship enthusiast I'm on top of the world. It's sth. to remember, but also sth. that worths looking into.
More extra history!
Great video. Thoroughly researched and presented with style and humour.
0:58 "The US _Specific Fleet_ is now a pawn..."
Ah. Got one. This is looking like a great new entry, btw!
Glosses over how much the Japanese Navy was in favor of the arms limit because 10 to 7 is way better odds then the 20 or 30 to 7 that US and Japanese economies could sustain. The biggest problem was that it was a few percent lower than what Japan estimated they'd need to properly defend themselves.
Finally more videos on ww2
Pearl isn't the only naval sneak attack in Japanese Imperial history. They also did it to the Russians in 1904 when they attacked Port Arthur.
pearl : by planes
port aruther : destroyers
what’s this? I’m early? And it’s on pearl
harbor? INCREDIBLE
Hey. You guys seems to be missing the links in the descripton thats mentioned at 1:40 that has some background info that you say are important to this one.
Lions Led By Donkeys covered this subject pretty well in detail on their recent episode "The Dumb Life and Dumber Death of the Battleship Yamato"
woo new extra history series!
1:11 Already doing that. ;-)
(I just wait until all the episodes are out and then watch them back to back)
I'm waiting that you're going to talk about the history of the Pacific war by the Philippines perspective
Can you continue with this pacific theater stuff pls
I hope you remember that ships were supposed to be safe in Pearl Harbor. After all it was shallow port. No torpedo could work in such conditions. Also engineers do like a challenge.
This looks epic I’m into it
nice to see the actual history of this be covered
YES ANOTHER WW2 VIDEO IM SO HAPPY
Oh... I guess these come out on Nebula days in advance. Good to know.
2:56 Just a sidenote, the VOC were long gone by that time; it's all Dutch at that point.
Thank you for the video.
I sure hope you guys get to talk about the battle of wake island as well sometime! My Great Great Grandfather was a civilian on the island and then later a Japanese POW. It is sad that chapter of the pacific theater is never talked about.
06:48 The Island of Palawan: I guess I don't exist...
When this series is over can you do a video about the war of the pacific (the one between Chile and Bolivia)
Educational and I need more
Do one about the Manhattan project
YEAH EXTRA HISTORY HELL YEAH
I’m a man of simple tastes. When I see a video on WW2, I click.
AWESOME
As a teacher, I'm curious... your content on Nebula- with a subscription can I make videos available to my students?
I love your videos 🎉👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
This made my day.
Small correction, Perry was only a commodore.
Japan had been violating the Washington Treaty in major ways long before the treaty was officially ended. While the US and British had launched some ships that broke the treaty, they did so in rather small ways and the US and British both kinda looked the other way so long as the violations were small (500 or a 1000 extra tons on a cruiser or something). Japan on the other hand did it in a big way and had done it for a long time. sm
Also topical here is the segment you did on the WWII resource war.
You missed the fact that a major part of US Pacific expansion was the an act in 1856 called the Guano Islands Act that allowed US citizens to claim any island they found in the pacific that was not under the government of another country. This was because the US really really loved bird poop as it was still very agriculturally based. It was extremely high in nitrogen and thus made fantastic fertilizer in an age before synthetic fertilizers. Pacific Islands were caked in the stuff as birds migrating through would just densely pack these islands/atolls for thousands of years. The US would claim several places that werent even above water until the tides receded.
At least when I took a class on the US expansion in the Pacific when I was in college (a long time ago), the whaling industry was never really brought up as a reason for expansion. I could be misremembering that aspect though, it's a lot easier to remember that the US claimed large swaths of the pacific hunting for bird poo.
Claiming Pacific islands didn't make Japan interesting for them though. Needing open ports for whaling ships did.
It's also interesting how they exploited the Japanese currency. Gold was undervalued there so they would buy stuff with silver and recieve gold as payment. Which was quite a bit of a drain on the Japanese economy.
@@kaltaron1284 So heres the thing, whaling was a mostly coastal, not a deep sea type of trade. The main reason for whaling back then was not the bones, but the oil produced was used for lighting and the meat. Obviously meat and fat spoil (esp pre refrigeration) , so they cant go too far from coastal areas. However, especially after the civil war, you had railroads delivering kerosene everywhere, gutting the industry. Whaling was only done in areas that werent connected via rail (like Alaska) or native tribes.
Basically, the statement about whaling doesnt fit my knowledge, nor basic logical analysis. Im not all knowing, there maybe some factor Im missing, but as you can see, I'm kinda sus that whaling was a thing on anyones from the US's mind in the Pacific. Bird poo or missionaries? Sure! Workers to gather the bird poop? Definitely a +! (as no one wanted do that job for obvious reasons). Outside of that, you had to go close to Asia for anything worthwhile to trade back then.
Also the gold to silver isnt too bad (not great, but not disastrous). Back then there was still the opium issues in China (in fact they were ramping up). I believe that silver was the main currency being used to pay for the opium imports, so they needed lots of it. It did hurt Japan when they wanted Western goods, but its not like they were trading for sea shells that were worthless everywhere else. The US actually protested the system at first because they thought it was unfair to them because they would lose on the silver to silver trade in terms of the coinage exchange rate, but then realized they could exploit the gold value after Japan rejected changing exchange rates.
@@Kyrephare Good points. I don't remember where I learned that whaling was part of their interests. Why else would they want to open Hakodate in addition to Shimoda in the Treaty of Kanagawa? Well, they got more rights four years later with the Treaty of Amity and Commerce anyway.
@@kaltaron1284 I went into a bit of a rabbit hole. So there was some whaling in the pacific, the name Starbuck was actually a family name that appeared in Moby Dick, but is also a clan of sailors from the Massachusetts who went whaling in the pacific. They didnt discover the island, but did name Starbuck Island in the middle of the pacific (when they were captaining a British whaling ship, as he was the first Westerner to step on the island). This was of course later claimed by the US under the Guano Act, and mined for Guano.
Apparently the British were active in whaling in the Pacific, but not the US (atleast outside of the Baja area). However the US had a giant whaling industry in the North East, so many of their whalers went on British ships into the pacific. The British funding the whaling in the pacific? Why the Dutch East India company! But yeah it makes sense that the British Empire would have more "domestic" use of whale oil for lighting as the were more fragmented territoriality, and I dont know if they had access to oil/kerosene from a domestic source in their empire at the the time.
@@Kyrephare Interesting information.
It's probably worth mentioning that the first treaty with Perry didn't include any trade but only refueling and stuff.
Alarm ⏰ goes of: *Sleeps*
Extra Credits has uploaded a video: *wakes up slightly*
It’s about Naval History: *eyes Widen*
It’s pearl harbour: *Jumps out of the bed*
Dude, you totally missed a perfect opportunity for a space balls reference with the episode release dates. Could of had a "when will then be now" going on.
Dude I love your TH-cam channel and please after you're done with this series make one about the about the atomic bombs
Yes
I'll admit I still try to honor on Dec 7th, as I am a US Navy veteran, but I also try to celbrate it as while not on the same year I was born on Dec 7th. My Grandfather as also there when it happened.
Isn't London Naval Treaty even more controversial for Japan, I mean WNT limit the capital ship tonnage like battleship and battlecruiser but didn't limit the tonnage for Heavy Cruiser that Japan now called "super mini battleship" Or something
I learned in college that the Washington Naval Treaty actually favored the Japanese. The British and US Navies needed to exert a presence in at least two oceans while the Japanese only needed a presence in one. Even during WWII the Japanese only reached into the Indian Ocean and not beyond. Given that reach the ratio in the Pacific was actually Britain 2.5, US 2.5, Japan 3. Obviously the US and Britain could redeploy portions of their fleet, but not without weakening it's presence in the Atlantic or elsewhere. With Britain an island nation with extensive colonies redeployment would be risky. That left the US whose major cities and ports were, at the time, on the Atlantic and Gulf Coast. And so the Washington Naval Treaty and the subsequent London treaty significantly benefited Japan. That didn't satisfy the militarists, but it gave Japan a significant head start.
After this series can we have more Byzantine stories like basil II or the life of Manuel the II or even Constantine the xi
For people out there wanting a video on Hawaii, go to knowing better channel and watch “overthrowing a Kingdom”-Hawaii” along with I feel like the most important part being from 6:30- 7:10
Do not suggest it. Knowing Better is quite leftist and places modern moral understandings on everything in the past; something absurd when trying to understand something. Worse yet, its only done against Western and Western-aligned countries, giving non-Western countries a pass.
@@stephenjenkins7971 I know but this is one of his older videos so isn’t as bad.
@@ryanschulte3742 Eh, tbh, you just need to keep that in mind while watching it is all.
@@stephenjenkins7971 I know
8:30 Not said was that the Japanese economy was severely strained even trying to reach that ratio. In reality, the treaty constrained America much more (since America could afford to build a much larger Navy) than Japan, but that's not something nationalists usually care about.
Yes and no. This still limited Japan how they could build and design their Ships. Also Japan could have build more CVs or BBs if they wanted but they actualy decided to build more smaller Ships instead which was not a completly wrong decision from a Strategic Point of View. Also while it limited the US and GB too it was also kinda an Arongant way of showing we are better then you so we are allowad to have more toys then you.
@@susakuzero They were better than Japan at the time. Both had the industrial might to completely overshadow Japan when it was signed. Though it is quite possible that there was a snobbery there since the US and UK were often allied to each other and would not be concerned with each other's power but with the rising powers of other nations like Japan and Germany.
Aaaah yeah yeah yeah more ww2 videos woo love your history videos