The algorithm = audience...it's just that simple. People like what they like and respond to what they like. Think about your own content. You made a new style of content that a new group of people were drawn to, and then they watched. They responded to what you put out in the world. Sometimes what we want to do, isn't what people want from us. Just like those creators that you were frustrated with also now do content that worked, even though they started with something different. Just like you, they followed the audience...you're more alike than you may realize.
There is one caveat with what you said... This forms an obligation on the audience to react to EVERYTHING a creator puts out under threat of never seeing their content again. This isn't a genuine connection, this is blackmail. I've had many creators disappear from my algorithmic feed on IG because I didn't engage with a post of theirs. They're still in my following feed, but IG saw I scrolled past a post from them and yeeted them from my default feed. This is bad for me as a viewer and bad for them as a creator because the system penalises creators for audiences not engaging. This is not normal.
@juliabazanska I agree. Actually, this is more evidence that there is an algorithm and that it is in service of the viewer...and by extension, the platform. Content Creators like to think the algorithm is designed to help us, but it's not for us. The algorithm's job is to keep users on the platform as long as possible and if we swipe by a piece of content (even by someone we like) it sends data to the algorithm telling it that that piece of content from that creator isn't grabbing your attention. It's sad because there are many reasons not to engage with content other than not liking it. I don't know about IG (I dont use it), but on TH-cam, you don't have to respond to "everything" someone puts out, but you do have to respond on a regular basis. However, I am someone who regularly goes into my subscriptions and checks out if they have new videos on channels. I love to be sure I'm not missing anything. But I know most people don't do that and then notifications for that creator fade away.
"Embrace being an amateur" is exactly what I did. I've come to accept that the times of my "art internet" are over. I was a deviantART user since 2003, I'm used to staring at a picture for a while, analysing it, letting it sink in. I have no interest whatsoever in what the author looks like. I only have interest in who the artist is as a person once I've gotten to know their art. Fast-paced videos annoy me. Turn-around reveals annoy me. Artists showing their face for five seconds before showing their art annoys me. I have no interest in this shallow image-based gimmicky art community. I don't do fan-art. I tried making reels for well over a year and had moderate success for a while but I hated every second of it (not to mention about 50% of the new followers I got from reels were bots, and of the remaining 50% about 40% never even saw my content again). You can't be a genuine creator in an environment you don't agree with on a fundamental level.
Morgue makes cool gouache portraits! I've watched videos about the dead internet theory, but never heard anyone talk about how much of the internet is literally children. You came at this topic from a different angle than I normally would see from others, so I think you're doing a pretty damn good job with these essays! The art you were making was great and I'm glad that you found a way to show your art process while also doing an essay! LONG LIVE THE FROG KING!!! 🐸
Love where you are going with this, Morgue! Thought-provoking video essay, and watching you paint. This is a winning combination; I like how you think AND your art. After your last video I was concerned that you wouldn't continue to show art vids on here and I'm glad you found a way that worked for you to incorporate it. BTW frankly, watching you make your art makes me want to purchase it, even though (and especially because) I'm an artist too!
I really liked your perspective on this. Also, you sighing at your ladder joke made me laugh harder than it probably should have. To add to the conversation, I've been making content off and on for over a decade now. I've had my fair share of tussles with the algorithm. But as I've been reflecting on the past year of getting back into it. I realized enthusiasm goes both ways. I found I'm more likely to watch someone if whatever they're doing genuinely interests them. Because i believe that excitement shows in their work, no matter what content they make. On the flip side, I've found that when i'm doing something, i enjoy be it streaming or Let’s Playing a game i like or I'm interested in, streaming my art process or art studies or whatever else. I tend to feel better about myself, and i find more of the time those videos do better. I'm sure other things factor into this as well, but it's just something i felt was worth noting. Since it's along the lines of it's people not algorithm. But I've rambled long enough. I hope Morgue you have a good week and the same goes for anyone else reading this.
online self censorship is one of the most depressing things about being alive right now, and i blame tiktok. people typing "l3$bean" for lesbian makes me physically angry. like conservatives spends billions of dollars and countless hours trying to enforce censorship and now people are lining up to do it to themselves.
20:01 I realized this last month. I was so scared of leaving comments and being perceived, because i was scared of embarrassing myself and make people think less of me as an artist... I don't know how but i felt way better since i started to actually talk to, engage and compliment other artists, because it reminds me the world is big, there are a lot of good people and we all have our little obsessions and passions that we want to share, and i think that is sort of a "touch-grass" type of activity, or at least it was for me.
yes! I've always been very intimidated by online interactions (and I still am sometimes) but it's so rewarding to connect with people like this. I think all of us have experienced this struggle
Good point about the kids, and they do like things that are super flashy and fast paced. I enjoyed watching you painting! So did my 5 month old baby lol. I like how intentional you are and I just want to say, I was a subscriber before your viral video. As Austin Kleon says, not every hobby has to make money. I think many artists fall into this because they want a full time job. I knew I'd never be good enough to be a full time artist and so, I have a full time job. But that job fuels me to make art so it's actually a nice - I would say ouroboros but my reference is actual the Auryn from Neverending Story. One last thing, I watch TH-cam on my TV. Which means I don't look at the comments much or take the time to comment but I'm doing it now because you deserve the engagement 😊 Best of luck
Maybe just call yourself an 'artist'. Why does it need any more definition than that? You either are or you're not. How anyone earns their money in order to keep being an artist doesn't matter. If I make a living from affiliate marketing, in an unrelated field, that takes me no time at all (and I do but not a livable income... yet) and spend the rest of my time making the art I want to make, the equivalent hours of a full time job (I don't but say I did)... what does it matter how I, or anyone, defines what I do? Also, you're wrong about the algorithm, you're just bad at it. You at least needed the words 'TH-cam' and "Artists' added to your title... so search knows what algorithm you're talking about and can deliver your video to artists wondering about the algorithm on TH-cam.
There has to be one or more algos, probably k-means clustering that classifies people in similar groups and test videos against those clumps, an algo to show ads at the right time by geolocation, and at least a thumbnail calculator / safety for korn and some to detect spam bots
Hi. I work in marketing, and algorythm is definitely a real thing. Every couple of years we go into a meeting with representatives of meta or tiktok and they give us the best practices for content or ads for their platforms. they definitely do surpress unwanted behaviours - sometimes its something. because users dont like it but sometimes definitely something that doesnt benefit the company - for example you cant post the same content for tik tok and instagram, because instagram got offended and wants people to use their build in tools. same for tik tok. ( i genuinely dont know if this has changed now, because i moved team and lost track of the newest isights, but that was situation before AI) The realest example is how we had to redefine meaning of word "Grape" or (self) exit. those are real issues that should not be masked, yet here we are because of the demotization.
NOTE: He made a clear mistake of thinking like TH-cam gurus. First of all, don’t equate people to bots, algorithm is not audience. There is indeed algorithms, and they do choose to promote based on views and subscribers, this has been proven time and time again. And every app has its own way to evaluating contents before delivery. Yes, you can simply call them Content Delivery Systems(CDS). Twitter Algo promotes political posts to more views exactly because it can sell to advertisers for longer. Instagram evaluates media metadata information before even considering the description and texts. A high quality video gets more reach. This has been proven. And yes, the audience does determine whether they like something or not. BUT WHAT IF YOU POST SOMETHING AND THE FIRST AND ONLY PERSON IT SHOWED TO SIMPLY HAS NO INTEREST IN SUCH MEDIA.
I completely agree with your video and especially like that you've incorporated both elements of your artistic side as well as your commentary on the algorithm and what is currently happening on TH-cam. But algorithm does exist in the way. And honestly depends on the country that you're posting your videos.for example the country where I currently live right now is being surprised by TH-cam simply because it doesn't follow the US politics, and because of that a lot of the videos especially from TH-camrs that has millions and millions of subscribers get less than half a million, and it happens it's simply because the country where I'm from is not monetizable. All the editors for my country are not monetized at all, the videos that we are watching don't bring any revenue to any creators that are outside of my country. and because we are not profitable but by law we cannot be fully banned from the platform, we are currently being suppressed by the algorithm. And that's why a lot of our creators are moving away from TH-cam, simply because we cannot even watch our own creators, let alone support our foreign creators. All the ads that are supposed to play on TH-cam are not even there, which is a good thing for us as viewers, but it's honestly bad for foreign TH-camrs, because they don't get the money that they deserve for the video that they posted. So if you are from a country that TH-cam has no issues with then it shouldn't be a problem, but if you're from a country that TH-cam is not supporting, this is where you're being suppressed and this is where the algorithm honestly is being played out. Just a thought and a comment on your video. Keep up the great work. I really enjoy your content! You can absolutely do this!
thank you! that's a great point - I'm not completely informed about those issues, but I agree with how something like that would be controlled by the algorithm focused on revenue and profit
@morguedesign It's not a common issue for most, but yeah, it sucks over all. Just imagine, you spent over six years and accumulated over 6m subscribers and one day BC of politics, your income went to zero and BC of your IP, you're being shadowbanned to most of countries outside your own. And even with people watching you, you get zero in revenue. Sucks for big creators but imagine the smaller ones. Yeah... So algorithm, in a way, does exist. It all depends where you are in the world. 🤧
Love your perspective and your art. I subscribed for these reasons, and not just because an algorithm told me too 😂. I just ordered some of your prints and super excited to receive them. My partner and I love Pedro Pascal and I think these will make perfect gifts for his birthday. Thank you for being authentic and real!
The argument of saying no algorithm can be the same as blaming the algorithm and not the quality of your own content. Because while we can't control algo, we still can do something with our marketing skills. For example, packaging your brand to appeal to certain demography, encouraging engagements, understanding the best time to interact etc. All which consider as parameters to the platforms' algo.
yeah you can also sell candy bars, energy drink and lunchables to your child audience. just package them nicely and say they are " healthier" than the competitor
@@solarydays Any skills can be misused manipulatively, my point was not to abuse them but simply the acknowledgement of relevant skillsets in any objectives is better than choosing to be ignorant about it.
I never thought I'd find myself defending Zuckerberg, but perhaps his point was that people can be naïve for trusting their private data to strangers in general, rather than suggesting he had "Machiavellian" intentions from the start. When I went to college twenty years ago, server maintenance was often subpar. Security and privacy were minimal, making it easy to access others' information, yet few people were concerned about it. Hackers were mostly idealistic amateurs back then, and private data wasn't commodified by big tech the way it is today. Those who were more knowledgeable about computers and security had a better sense of privacy issues, but even they weren't overly worried.
I agree! I think there's a lot to criticize about him, but I mostly see this conversation as a light-hearted comment about how easy it was to get the info (it truly was an exchange people were okay with). it's only with the current data security/privacy issues that it aged poorly
![[Full] 4 ต่อ 4 Celebrity EP.920 | 3 พ.ย. 67 | one31](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KwiW2M_kAg4/mqdefault.jpg)
The algorithm = audience...it's just that simple. People like what they like and respond to what they like. Think about your own content. You made a new style of content that a new group of people were drawn to, and then they watched. They responded to what you put out in the world. Sometimes what we want to do, isn't what people want from us. Just like those creators that you were frustrated with also now do content that worked, even though they started with something different. Just like you, they followed the audience...you're more alike than you may realize.
There is one caveat with what you said... This forms an obligation on the audience to react to EVERYTHING a creator puts out under threat of never seeing their content again. This isn't a genuine connection, this is blackmail. I've had many creators disappear from my algorithmic feed on IG because I didn't engage with a post of theirs. They're still in my following feed, but IG saw I scrolled past a post from them and yeeted them from my default feed. This is bad for me as a viewer and bad for them as a creator because the system penalises creators for audiences not engaging. This is not normal.
@juliabazanska I agree. Actually, this is more evidence that there is an algorithm and that it is in service of the viewer...and by extension, the platform.
Content Creators like to think the algorithm is designed to help us, but it's not for us. The algorithm's job is to keep users on the platform as long as possible and if we swipe by a piece of content (even by someone we like) it sends data to the algorithm telling it that that piece of content from that creator isn't grabbing your attention. It's sad because there are many reasons not to engage with content other than not liking it.
I don't know about IG (I dont use it), but on TH-cam, you don't have to respond to "everything" someone puts out, but you do have to respond on a regular basis. However, I am someone who regularly goes into my subscriptions and checks out if they have new videos on channels. I love to be sure I'm not missing anything. But I know most people don't do that and then notifications for that creator fade away.
I think it's so important to just make stuff regardless of the level of engagement. Stay principled and make stuff that you'd like to watch
Watching you paint while hearing your calm voice, explain these insights is quite relaxing while also enlightening.
Thanks Morgan ☺️
"Embrace being an amateur" is exactly what I did. I've come to accept that the times of my "art internet" are over. I was a deviantART user since 2003, I'm used to staring at a picture for a while, analysing it, letting it sink in. I have no interest whatsoever in what the author looks like. I only have interest in who the artist is as a person once I've gotten to know their art. Fast-paced videos annoy me. Turn-around reveals annoy me. Artists showing their face for five seconds before showing their art annoys me. I have no interest in this shallow image-based gimmicky art community. I don't do fan-art. I tried making reels for well over a year and had moderate success for a while but I hated every second of it (not to mention about 50% of the new followers I got from reels were bots, and of the remaining 50% about 40% never even saw my content again). You can't be a genuine creator in an environment you don't agree with on a fundamental level.
Morgue makes cool gouache portraits! I've watched videos about the dead internet theory, but never heard anyone talk about how much of the internet is literally children. You came at this topic from a different angle than I normally would see from others, so I think you're doing a pretty damn good job with these essays! The art you were making was great and I'm glad that you found a way to show your art process while also doing an essay! LONG LIVE THE FROG KING!!! 🐸
aw thank you! I really appreciate that
Love where you are going with this, Morgue! Thought-provoking video essay, and watching you paint. This is a winning combination; I like how you think AND your art. After your last video I was concerned that you wouldn't continue to show art vids on here and I'm glad you found a way that worked for you to incorporate it. BTW frankly, watching you make your art makes me want to purchase it, even though (and especially because) I'm an artist too!
I really liked your perspective on this. Also, you sighing at your ladder joke made me laugh harder than it probably should have.
To add to the conversation, I've been making content off and on for over a decade now. I've had my fair share of tussles with the algorithm.
But as I've been reflecting on the past year of getting back into it. I realized enthusiasm goes both ways.
I found I'm more likely to watch someone if whatever they're doing genuinely interests them. Because i believe that excitement shows in their work, no matter what content they make.
On the flip side, I've found that when i'm doing something, i enjoy be it streaming or Let’s Playing a game i like or I'm interested in, streaming my art process or art studies or whatever else.
I tend to feel better about myself, and i find more of the time those videos do better.
I'm sure other things factor into this as well, but it's just something i felt was worth noting. Since it's along the lines of it's people not algorithm.
But I've rambled long enough.
I hope Morgue you have a good week and the same goes for anyone else reading this.
online self censorship is one of the most depressing things about being alive right now, and i blame tiktok. people typing "l3$bean" for lesbian makes me physically angry. like conservatives spends billions of dollars and countless hours trying to enforce censorship and now people are lining up to do it to themselves.
You are authentic and it shines through. I enjoy listening to your thoughts while you paint. Beautiful art!!
thank you!
20:01 I realized this last month.
I was so scared of leaving comments and being perceived, because i was scared of embarrassing myself and make people think less of me as an artist...
I don't know how but i felt way better since i started to actually talk to, engage and compliment other artists, because it reminds me the world is big, there are a lot of good people and we all have our little obsessions and passions that we want to share, and i think that is sort of a "touch-grass" type of activity, or at least it was for me.
yes! I've always been very intimidated by online interactions (and I still am sometimes) but it's so rewarding to connect with people like this. I think all of us have experienced this struggle
Good point about the kids, and they do like things that are super flashy and fast paced.
I enjoyed watching you painting! So did my 5 month old baby lol.
I like how intentional you are and I just want to say, I was a subscriber before your viral video.
As Austin Kleon says, not every hobby has to make money. I think many artists fall into this because they want a full time job. I knew I'd never be good enough to be a full time artist and so, I have a full time job. But that job fuels me to make art so it's actually a nice - I would say ouroboros but my reference is actual the Auryn from Neverending Story.
One last thing, I watch TH-cam on my TV. Which means I don't look at the comments much or take the time to comment but I'm doing it now because you deserve the engagement 😊
Best of luck
Maybe just call yourself an 'artist'. Why does it need any more definition than that? You either are or you're not. How anyone earns their money in order to keep being an artist doesn't matter. If I make a living from affiliate marketing, in an unrelated field, that takes me no time at all (and I do but not a livable income... yet) and spend the rest of my time making the art I want to make, the equivalent hours of a full time job (I don't but say I did)... what does it matter how I, or anyone, defines what I do?
Also, you're wrong about the algorithm, you're just bad at it. You at least needed the words 'TH-cam' and "Artists' added to your title... so search knows what algorithm you're talking about and can deliver your video to artists wondering about the algorithm on TH-cam.
There has to be one or more algos, probably k-means clustering that classifies people in similar groups and test videos against those clumps, an algo to show ads at the right time by geolocation, and at least a thumbnail calculator / safety for korn and some to detect spam bots
There also was a change on oct 24-25 that impacted impressions from search, and the 'mistake' on the Rogan video recognized by YT
Hi. I work in marketing, and algorythm is definitely a real thing. Every couple of years we go into a meeting with representatives of meta or tiktok and they give us the best practices for content or ads for their platforms. they definitely do surpress unwanted behaviours - sometimes its something. because users dont like it but sometimes definitely something that doesnt benefit the company - for example you cant post the same content for tik tok and instagram, because instagram got offended and wants people to use their build in tools. same for tik tok. ( i genuinely dont know if this has changed now, because i moved team and lost track of the newest isights, but that was situation before AI) The realest example is how we had to redefine meaning of word "Grape" or (self) exit. those are real issues that should not be masked, yet here we are because of the demotization.
NOTE: He made a clear mistake of thinking like TH-cam gurus. First of all, don’t equate people to bots, algorithm is not audience. There is indeed algorithms, and they do choose to promote based on views and subscribers, this has been proven time and time again. And every app has its own way to evaluating contents before delivery.
Yes, you can simply call them Content Delivery Systems(CDS). Twitter Algo promotes political posts to more views exactly because it can sell to advertisers for longer. Instagram evaluates media metadata information before even considering the description and texts. A high quality video gets more reach. This has been proven.
And yes, the audience does determine whether they like something or not. BUT WHAT IF YOU POST SOMETHING AND THE FIRST AND ONLY PERSON IT SHOWED TO SIMPLY HAS NO INTEREST IN SUCH MEDIA.
i like learning/talking about the algorithm and i flippin love pedro pascal. thank you for being here to scratch both those itches.
I completely agree with your video and especially like that you've incorporated both elements of your artistic side as well as your commentary on the algorithm and what is currently happening on TH-cam. But algorithm does exist in the way. And honestly depends on the country that you're posting your videos.for example the country where I currently live right now is being surprised by TH-cam simply because it doesn't follow the US politics, and because of that a lot of the videos especially from TH-camrs that has millions and millions of subscribers get less than half a million, and it happens it's simply because the country where I'm from is not monetizable. All the editors for my country are not monetized at all, the videos that we are watching don't bring any revenue to any creators that are outside of my country. and because we are not profitable but by law we cannot be fully banned from the platform, we are currently being suppressed by the algorithm. And that's why a lot of our creators are moving away from TH-cam, simply because we cannot even watch our own creators, let alone support our foreign creators. All the ads that are supposed to play on TH-cam are not even there, which is a good thing for us as viewers, but it's honestly bad for foreign TH-camrs, because they don't get the money that they deserve for the video that they posted. So if you are from a country that TH-cam has no issues with then it shouldn't be a problem, but if you're from a country that TH-cam is not supporting, this is where you're being suppressed and this is where the algorithm honestly is being played out. Just a thought and a comment on your video. Keep up the great work. I really enjoy your content! You can absolutely do this!
thank you! that's a great point - I'm not completely informed about those issues, but I agree with how something like that would be controlled by the algorithm focused on revenue and profit
@morguedesign It's not a common issue for most, but yeah, it sucks over all. Just imagine, you spent over six years and accumulated over 6m subscribers and one day BC of politics, your income went to zero and BC of your IP, you're being shadowbanned to most of countries outside your own. And even with people watching you, you get zero in revenue. Sucks for big creators but imagine the smaller ones. Yeah... So algorithm, in a way, does exist. It all depends where you are in the world. 🤧
Love your perspective and your art. I subscribed for these reasons, and not just because an algorithm told me too 😂. I just ordered some of your prints and super excited to receive them. My partner and I love Pedro Pascal and I think these will make perfect gifts for his birthday. Thank you for being authentic and real!
thank you! i'm so excited for y'all to have the artwork
I loved the conversation and the art🌺✨
The argument of saying no algorithm can be the same as blaming the algorithm and not the quality of your own content. Because while we can't control algo, we still can do something with our marketing skills. For example, packaging your brand to appeal to certain demography, encouraging engagements, understanding the best time to interact etc. All which consider as parameters to the platforms' algo.
yeah you can also sell candy bars, energy drink and lunchables to your child audience. just package them nicely and say they are " healthier" than the competitor
@@solarydays Any skills can be misused manipulatively, my point was not to abuse them but simply the acknowledgement of relevant skillsets in any objectives is better than choosing to be ignorant about it.
@@ren_sensei my point was that the only audience you can profit on around here is kids and teenagers. it's like you didn't even watch the video
@@solarydaysThen we both are making different points. So it would be meaningless and illogical to argue on a different ground.
@@ren_sensei I made the point, because what you are talking about doesn't work in an environment like that. it's not rocket science
loved your video, keep going
Thumbnail is genuis!
Wonder if you make the DICE and their text bigger.
Nice essay. I've been thinking along the same line lately. It is just not worth create my art to satisfy an algorithm.
I love your earnestness and integrity 😃 Keep going! Now back to lurking…
Awesome!
fact is, the algorithm is pushing you now! i don't even follow you and you are CONSTANTLY on my feed. so i hope make something positive out of it.
Such an important point. Also the constant self-censoring is irritating.
phirst 🤓 ur videos r rlly helpful and fun to watch thank u for being awesome
secont?
@@Leo-qn2zm I was first but deleted and re-wrote, so now you are officially first ☺
yippeee!! @@theindiejurnee
I never thought I'd find myself defending Zuckerberg, but perhaps his point was that people can be naïve for trusting their private data to strangers in general, rather than suggesting he had "Machiavellian" intentions from the start. When I went to college twenty years ago, server maintenance was often subpar. Security and privacy were minimal, making it easy to access others' information, yet few people were concerned about it. Hackers were mostly idealistic amateurs back then, and private data wasn't commodified by big tech the way it is today. Those who were more knowledgeable about computers and security had a better sense of privacy issues, but even they weren't overly worried.
I agree! I think there's a lot to criticize about him, but I mostly see this conversation as a light-hearted comment about how easy it was to get the info (it truly was an exchange people were okay with). it's only with the current data security/privacy issues that it aged poorly
When you said, "I'm way too young to be feeling old.".... I feel this literally in my bones...and I'm only 31 🥲 hahaha.