The problems that will hurt F1 racing until 2026
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
- F1 racing got WORSE in 2023 partly because of some development loopholes that were missed and probably won’t be addressed for SEVERAL years.
The dominance of Max Verstappen and Red Bull was the main talking point whenever anyone discussed how entertaining F1 was this season but another factor was also a constant issue.
Behind the runaway champion and winner of an astonishing 19 of the 22 races, the field did ACTUALLY seem to get closer this year.
But as for how well these closely-matched cars could race…well, it turned out to be bad news.
00:00 Worse racing
01:19 Missed loopholes
02:46 The main weapon
05:18 No quick fix
08:04 2024-25 warning
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Pirelli isn't to be blamed. They did EXACTLY what FIA ordered, a tire that will only last to a certain wears and then fall off the cliff on performance. They can build bullet proof tires, but that's not what FIA wants.
@@iBsteveT honestly I understand why the FIA asks pirelli to make these less durable tires that fall off rather quickly. it's because it allows for more interesting race strategies to happen during a race compared to putting one durable set of tires on the car that can last the entirety of a race. that just wouldn't really be exciting from a strategic point of view.
@@barobaro1 You'd pretty much have to make 1 to 3 pits mandatory if you'd want to mix the field up a bit, which would pretty much move varied strategies off the table. It could maybe work, rallycross has something similar with the joker lap, but I dunno if people would want that.
@@Appletank8That's TOO artificial.
@@Appletank8or you can run qualifying at night on a cold track. That mixes up the pack nicely :)
as a nascar fan, the last thing you want is bullet proof tires, the racing would be much worse
Its a shocker that Max didn't get even one dnf.
Who said cheats don't prosper
@@adl6907I just love to see you crying.
Maybe cry some more if it helps your team to prosper
@@juliuslakra757 bro chill 💀
They tuned the hondaa engines down while leading. improving reliability
@@adl6907 fckin mickiemouse entered the chat
Blame Mercedes and Toto that lobbied for the increased ride height. Everything with the new rules went downhill from there.
Not really
@@Zephyrion__it is though cuz it nerfed the ferrari
@@Zephyrion__ while seems insignificant, this ride height change affects everyone except (ironically) RBR. so what Mercedes (or Toto) did here is basically making RBR becoming even more untouchable
casual alert
@@BasicBodThorexplain
I still feel like the TD last year hurt a lot of teams other that RB. Ferrari in particular got kneecapped and RB just sailed into the distance
The TD that Mercedes lobbied for you mean?
@@AugustusCaesar88 lmfao yup that’s the one!!
Thank Toto!
I disagree the TD was there for health and safety reasons to stop drivers shattering their spines as most drivers employed by English based teams and needed to abide by UK occupational health laws, RB drivers was effected by it also but as RB was dominant karen spice told them to stfu and blamed merc for complaining.
Also what you said ISNT THE POINT, the point is that FIA post liberty media F1 takeover was quick to nerf Mercedes "In tHe SPirIt Of da RuLZ" but unwilling to change the rules when red bull dominate making 2023 the worst season in modern history.
some examples of F1 under liberty media "changing the rules" to slow down Mercedes:
-increased minimum weight. Honda engines in RB was too heavy making the car overweight and merc was the only top car hitting pre increase weight limit,
-increased minimum driver weight to 80kg so fit 'light' drivers like 67kg Lewis was unfairly penalised because now merc had to use an extra 13kg extra seat ballast to hit 80kg , this harmed Mercedes the most as car + driver was actually underweight before rule change and they used ballast to balance the car, minimum car weight increase + minimum driver weight wiped this out neutering Mercedes 'light' PU and car advantage .
-Banned mercs 'party mode' engine maps to slow them down.
-Banned mercs Dual Axis Steering aka DAS for 2021 that did not break any rules,
-Banned complex multi element ultra complex wings merc dominated with,
-Introduced cost cap that stopped merc development arms race advantage BUT Red bull didn't need to abide to it(!).. etc
the list goes on and explains all the help RB had to challenge and beat Mercedes IN 2021 with the extra assistance of Micheal masi at the orders of ross brawn to invent new rules at abu dhabi 2021 to screw lewis out of a 8th WDC
Now because ts chosen one max at redbull winning FIA wont touch the rules so 2022-2025 will be total rb domination.. congrats liberty media for killing F1!
I want close fair racing NOT a DTS zoomer friendly manipulated redbull domination
Yeah, Ferrari was giving RB a run for their money until the TD. Ferrari was so fast, but the porpoising was insane.
Pirelli needs to start making tyres people can actually push on instead of just managing the whole time
Agree, racing has only got worse under Pirelli and drivers can barely push two laps before the tyres lose grip - pathetic really. You can also blame how big and heavy the cars are - lose 100kgs and you'll go a long way to solving problems.
The tyre situation is entirely to blame on the FIA and FOM. Michelin would happily provide tyres for F1 if they could make real tyres and no gimmicky stuff.
@@mintgoldheart6126 Michelin and even Bridgestone at this point tbh Hell throw in Goodyear for extra credit.
@@JustSomeDinosaurPerson Michelin won't be in F1 as long as the FIA demands tyres that don't last more than a lap when pushed.
Bring back bridgestone or michellin
Congratulations Max on his Five WDC's.
See you all again in 2026.
See ya
this aint an airport m8, no need to anounce your departure.
Congratulations Max Verstappen and the Red Bull team on your FIRST legitimate F1 title.......
@@adl6907 Dont be one of those people man, you sound pathetic
@@adl6907cry harder brit boi
The thing that I really wish could be researched is whether Ferrari's concept was actually viable had TD39 and the ride height changes not occurred. Because now that everyone is going for the RB concept, you can't nerf any part of RB without nerfing the entire grid. 2021 happened because the RB and Merc operated in different ways, hence why the floor cuts hurt Merc more than RB.
You don't need to do any research. Ferrari designed a car with a true Venturi underbody that also gained most of its downforce from the floor itself, with the diffuser effectively just providing a stable airflow. Red Bull designed a car with a high roof, far back, short throat, whose diffuser vortex was energized by air from the top, which is less dependent on low ride heights. This is more how the old flat-bottomed cars worked and here it is the diffuser that "drives" the floor and pulls air through the floor, whereas with Ferrari's Venturi floor it is the floor itself and its small distance from the floor. Simply put, the Ferrari produced downforce more with the floor itself and utilized the ground effect to the maximum (the whole car was designed around this concept), while Red Bull generates downforce more via the diffuser, which is less dependent on low ride heights. It's completely logical and a physical fact that the TD039 completely destroyed Ferrari's concept while at the same time making Red Bull's the only correct one and giving them a huge development advantage. That's why all the talk about what great things Newey has built is complete nonsense. It's not Newey who is responsible for this huge lead, but the FIA and Mercedes (whose media campaign and lobyying ensured that the TD039 came about, with which they even shot themselves in the head without even realizing it). But as I said - it's a physical fact. You don't need to do any research. The underbodies themselves show this quite clearly.
@@fam.hunger5244erm... how is it not a "great thing that Newey has built" when the Red Bull, due to its design, has the widest operating window of all cars on the grid? Newey's design is all about aerodynamic _stability_ not outright maximum downforce, and as a bonus, it's also a design that has a larger envelope for further refinement, which Ferrari's design did not have.
The floor was part of it but also keep in mind Honda engines finally became competitive that year as well.
@@fam.hunger5244internet is not ready for this discussion
@@kicapanmanis1060yes and on top of that Ferrari made it clear they had turned down their engine in the latter half of 2022 to avoid the reliability issues they had been facing
They should make the front wings 20cm narrower. It would not only eliminate outwash, but make front wing damage far less common.
What about 16cm narrower on the rear wing but 2cm wider on the front wings.
The front wing was conceived to prevent outwash in the first place. The problem is that the FIA is being too slow to prohibit designs that are generating wake that hurts cars behind. The whole thing about the rear wing sending the dirty air above the car behind obviously doesn't work fully as the regulations intended. The FIA should've checked the cars already and noted everything that could make following worse, and then ban it. These regulations should be about making following other cars easier, if the development of the cars is making following worse, they need to cut everything that is generating that.
@@oldmarcussales Perhaps a way to fix it would be to instead give the teams performance metrics regarding outwash. Since they can measure it, why not instead of banning designs put requirements of max 15% at 1 car length, or something similar. Then the teams can use whatever design, as long as it doesn't produce too much outwash
front wing damage is one of the silliest things. it's so such a small thing and completely ruins a drivers race ( usually at the start ).
@@brod515 And it's so unnecessary. Front wing damage used to be very rare when the wings were narrower (think 1998-2008)
We can continue to blame dirty air, tire temperatures, downforce, or a dominant driver……but this continues to ignore the reality that the cars are just WAY TOO LARGE. Why would any racing league that exists, design cars that make it difficult to overtake, essentially making racing a rare thing that happens during a race? This is F1.
Amusingly enough, this is still more overtaking than we saw during the late 90s and early 2000s (we don't count refueling and then passing a car that is 3 seconds a lap slower in quali pace overtaking).
Its mostly because of the safety cell and power train,f1 cars have never been safer but that comes with added wheight and size
F1 know that, but can't solve it without compromising safety and the electrical improvements developed in the last 15 years, especially the former.
@@n8pls543 Fans have short memories.
@@Manlikerik8 They are aiming to make lighter and narrower cars for 2026 but it's a tall ask given the electrical components will be even larger owning to the 50% electric system.
Shrink the front wing width to the center of the tires, or less. Not sure why F1 made the front wings big again. It would also reduce the chances for front wing damage from wheel to wheel racing.
i'd shrink them back to the 2008 level :D
exactly this. most of the teams already have more than enough front downforce so it would even affect driveabiltiy that much
They're already somewhat doing that for 2026 but yeah bit late on that.
Here's an idea. In the wind tunnel, place two models of X team's car, one behind the other. If their own car can run behind itself without losing a certain % of downforce at a specified distance then the design is passed. This test can happen maybe 3-4 times a season.
Wouldn't be surprised if you could see it with a thermal camera just, might not even need a wind tunnel...
The thing is the cars don't run at full speed in the wind tunnels, I think the cap is like 200KMPH. A test like that won't hold any weight since it won't be simulated accurately.
@@liamlaus you can adjust the test for that however
That’s actually a pretty clever idea.
Instead of making painstakingly detailed rules about form, only for teams to find the loophole to break it, why not define the objective itself as rule?
@@Garfie489 Maybe, but it depends if the windtunnels are capable of doing so.
Losing TV numbers in the UK will be down to the pricing to watch it. F1 needs to be back on terrestrial tv, not many people can pay the high prices of SKY then to add F1 to it.
Imagine being a new f1 fan tuning in at the start of the 2021 season and getting one of the greatest title fights in f1 history, just for the next 4 years to be pure domination by a single person. Max can get his bag and catch the W's, but the FIA/F1 letting a single soul win 19 out of the 23 races is a pure clown fest. Bro broke the record for most consecutive wins in a row. F1 and liberty media can put as many races from all over the world as they want, but if the championship is decided halfway through the season then it's all for nothing.
btw, 1st time in history that this is happening and we hear NO TALK of the FIA changing anything to TRY and stop it. The talk is "yeah we project the same".
I bet you said that when Lewis and Mercedes were having their era of domination.
@@maxioh576Mercedes may have dominated the era but Nico and Valtteri won more than one or two races per season. You cant even compare the two eras.
I do not think that it is a problem at all. F1 fans is familiar with domination. Before this Red Bulls domination, Mercedes also dominated for 7 years. Before that 4 years for Red Bulls. Before that Ferrari. The list goes on and on. If domination is so bad for F1, F1 should have already go bankrupt and cease to exist anymore. This trait of one team domination has been there for decades already.
@@catchnkill Been watching F1 since 1993. Yes, there are eras of domination by one team and typically one driver. But even so, others managed to win races in between. The domination only went so far. They did not win every race but one in a season. They did not go so completely unchallenged that them winning each race was a forgone conclusion. They did not run away so far ahead of the pack that no one was even able to get close.
This year, there was more fun to be had looking at what the back markers were doing. You knew who was in the lead and that it was by a long margin with no challenge. So there was no point watching that.
The only glimmer of hope was in Singapore.
There is domination and then there is what is happening right now: Complete domination.
I think the budget cap should be increasd for where you finish in the championship. Might give the slower teams a chance to catch up too because the development restrictions don't seem to do much.
Part of the issue is that some of the smaller teams couldn't afford to spend much more than the current budget cap
@@DrakshlMany are in fact running significantly under it
@@prathamkataria7570 im pretty sure all teams are hitting the budget cap now. Haas was talking about how moneygram got them to the budget cap and williams, alphatauri and sauber were already at the cap last year
@@prathamkataria7570 Really? I imagine it would just be sauber (worse next year without alfa romeo especially) and Haas, no? Williams now has Dorilton to solve pretty much all their monetary issues, and I imagine AlphaTauri gets some help from Red Bull too. At least this year.
I don't think that will matter for the bottom teams though. I believe Williams said that they can't spend the max budget anyway because they don't have the $$ to spend
The biggest issue for F1 is it is too expensive to watch in the UK now!
Is it that bad? I pay like 75 euros a year for f1tv here in Holland
If you were to have Sky here in UK, without a new customer deal, you'll be looking at £240 a year for the sports package ontop of your basic TV package of £252. So via Sky, £492 a year in total - I think... unless they've changed it recently, you have to have the basic TV to access the Sports package.
The Uk fans still don't realize they make a stink about dominance when Lulu was dominant you didn't hear near as much....
Exactly!
You never will.
It's only a problem when another team and driver are doing it.
They'll be on an even bigger suicide watch once lil bling retires.
Vegas has great racing because the circuit allowed drafting, while rewarding hard breaking and mechanical grip. No long corner sequences that spread the field so the following car is out range to make a move
It's mostly because grip was low and allowed more racing lines and also long brake distances. When you mean that I agree 100% . You can even see how drastic racing changed from 2016 to 2017 it's really the mechanical grip the have in any corner.
The cars just need to be smaller and lighter. Simple as. Won’t happen because they’re determined to cram electricity into the car rather than just run a v10 on ethanol. Sad.
The post-Senna narrow cars were actually pretty bad for racing due to their instability, which is what pushed the aero arms race even harder (need downforce to stay on the road), led to huge gaps in performance across the grid, and massively increased dirty air in already unstable cars to the point where overtaking was _far... far_ worse than it has ever been since.
All because the FIA thought it was a great idea to try to slow cars down by making them smaller and less stable... which just led to them being fast and unstable.
Why media didn't have the same energy on rule changing while Mercedes was winning everything?😂
What making the engines less complex like 2020
This video has been more entertaining than 85% of this season has been.
The season was very entertaining in the midfield, just not at the front so much.
Besides the fight for P1, the season was actually really good. F1 is about more than just the race winner.
I think if Pirelli were to make a square tire it would really shake things up.
The all new F² racing series. I'd watch it!
2008 is my all time favourite Formula 1 season. Multiple race winners from multiple teams, and a thrilling finale. We're probably never going to get a season like that ever again.
holy fck f1 fans are so dramatic sometimes
2012 was great because so many teams won races, advantages truly swung from race to race, and the title battle was epic.
yup that was last season i watched before stopped and start watching again just in time in 2021 when russel in merc and that abu dhabi finale. what a timing to comeback XD
The V8 era in general was very competitive, 2011 and 2013 were the only seasons that were more predictable.
2007 was great too imo
If F1 are concerned about television viewership: (1) drop back to 20 races per season, on basically two-week intervals; and (2) send the "Sprint" back to Hell where it came from, and belongs.
2026: This could be the most insane F1 Season ever.
Red Bull: What about "No"?
Dont be surprised if Redbull push to defer the rule change a year or 2. They know they basically can't lose under these regulations and if 2026 doesn't work for them they will have trouble holding onto Max because you will likely see another team dominating for years to come
Their engine is an unknown. It is for everyone, but this time they are making their own. It really doesn't matter if the people designing and making it are experienced. The company drives the bus and they've never had to do this before.
Is there a reason why the FIA don't prescribe the total outwash measured with a few standard aero tests, instead of regulating shapes and physical design details?
As we know, like with flexi wings test can be outplayed, but for starting point it would be good
Yea cos it goes againts the spirit of the sport.
@@kicapanmanis1060 why it would goes against it?
Standard test are exist for a long time (like one for flexibile wings) and cost cap can be considered against spirit of the sport
Regulating the size of parts, how it should look sounds more like something that goes against the spirit of this technical sport
@@pasztorferenc6741 You said it. Standard test. So there is a standard and clearcut pass or fail criteria. You are talking something very vague. How do you measure outwash? It is a complex aerodynamic phenomena. How do you determine that it is 35%? This standard entails more than all of the existing combined rules and more. How can it be execute?
@@catchnkill somehow F1 produced these numbers, also was able to give predictions. While something is complex, it doesn't mean it can't be measured. They don't even need to use the real life car, just an X% scale of it, or running computer simulation - it wouldn't be easy, but would eliminate the problem
Thanks to all those at The Race for the amazing content this year.
I was wondering if you could do a video/discussion on the number of races held per year & any changes you would like, season opener/closer etc. It would be interesting to hear different perspectives & points of view.
Amazing content? Just British Bias content 😂
@swl0323 which just seems like the surface-level argument when you don't accept someone else's opinion
Cars should be smaller.
After the constant WDC wins of Schumi and Hamilton, this doesnt really feel like a difference.. cant blame Max though coz there were drivers who dominated for long periods before him as well
We need a constant/decent teammate to max that can at the very least stay on him a bit to keep things interesting. Perez is 100% not that guy. But this kinda is what it is. You put a prime top driver in a great car and nobody has a chance. The same happened with all the greats.
@@hey_mr_wallace2323why. Everyone likes bottas instead of George. That's the same as Perez being at rb. It's only a problem for max though
@@titancheat when did I say bottas? I think my comment is pretty fair. But if you want to bring it up. Bottas in those years is just a more consistent driver. It's not the same as Perez. I like both drivers and I still know that to be true. And it's not a max problem, it's a competitiveness problem. Has nothing to do with Max's fault. If we want f1 to grow it needs to be competitive. Look at the views going down the past years even with dts etc coming out.
@@titancheatTbf to Bottas, he was at least winning races when Lewis couldn't. Even somehow matched Lewis' quali pace. And on the other side, you have Perez.
@@excoupe ...Who literally also won races that Max didn't, so I'm not sure what the hell you think you're proving here, lol.
Another consideration is the fact that technology (particularly in fields like engineering via machine learning/ai) is moving so quickly that the current set of rules is completely inadequate to the task of policing design.
Generative ai makes it possible to test literally 10s of thousands of designs in a short time using newly available gpu powered cfd. Expect to see the designs become more similar as everyone converges towards the truly optimized package.
Just how much of the vehicle has to be human designed? Does that mean those humans are limit in their computer use? Do we force them to use slide rules?
These are all issues the FIA, and indeed all forms of top level motorsports are going to have to deal with over the coming years.
Still dont understand wie F1 doesn't follow a goal oriented approach for the dirty air problem.
Let each team place a standardized car (like the F1 2022 concept car) behind their own car in a wind tunnel/CFD and impose a rule that this concept car is not allowed to lose more than X % downforce. Each team can develop freely and the resulting cars will still be able to follow more closely - no need for overcomplicated rules and restriction on aero.
Only problem would be the needed wind tunnel size, but CFD should do just fine.
Pirelli are fine. Maybe get them to focus on thermal degradation. I’d only allow tyre warmers for slick tyres now. Wet/Inters, get out and on with it. The wets need a little more development too.
As for the cars, the front wing needs to be narrower, 75mm on either side will do. Just enough to play with the outwash and the brake ducts need to have no aero parts that are a generator of load.
If only there was some way to measure and quantify "dirty air" so the FIA could just set a limit to how much dirty air a car can produce the same way they limit weight or skid/plank wear.
There has never been a racing regulation that a race engineer has not tried to subvert/negate or otherwise creatively "reinterpret" to their advantage. It is effectively their JOB to do so, and with so many teams working to do so it's inevitable that it will happen. The only way to stop it in any particular area of the car is to ban something completely (ie: no turbos, period). The FIA's action on AM endplates is a good step, but they need to be willing to do that more often - in the name of good racing.
For the front wings, why not just ban the endplates altogether? Or shrink them back to the 2008 widths. It would also reduce instances of the endplates getting knocked off (every damn start)...
This is what I love about the sport.
@@kicapanmanis1060 I don’t disagree, but the approach I prefer is that taken by the ACO. “We don’t care how you make the horsepower, but you can’t have more than 550 of them.” F1 has been marching down the spec series approach for a good 30+ years.
Throw out trash electric systems that are unnecessary go back to NA V8/V10 allow active suspension (some parts could be same for cost etc), simplify aerodynamics and bring back refuling in the race but make it so you have to be immobile (only when you want to refuel) for set ammount of time so there wont be dangerous situations like Singapore 2008.
Cars will be smaller lighter, simpler aero so there wont be a problem in arero loss for following cars, almost everyone loves NA sound plus no need to use batteries etc, if you want to be eco friendly there will be E fuel.
I think almost everyone would be happy
Removing the front and back wing would solve this problem, we don't need the cars going 300kmh trough the corners we just need cars that can overtake each other and the wings prevent overtaking.
If you remove the wings you lose like half of the downforce these cars produce. You could remove the front wing like the early 1980s cars did if the ground effect was more powerful like it was with the skirts and everything.
Interesting that these videos weren’t popping up from 2014-21.
If you're pushing for the "fastest possible" speeds around the track, you will always end up pushing the boundaries of the regs into maximizing pace through clean air, thereby hurting wheel to wheel racing. Just a fact. F1 is a very clean, smooth, measured, precise racing series. That's why it is so entertaining when you see wheel to wheel racing in F1 - it is RARE and the stakes are very high. If you want wheel to wheel racing, watch Indy Car (if you can).
If it's about fastest possible speeds, we could've sticked to the 2017 regs.
The should start by getting rid of the sprints.
Well that was to be expected, it's one thing to jump from a 50% lack of downforce to actually cracking down on it. The development cycles come and go and the FIA takes note on what the teams come up with. How major or minor the changes might be, forcing teams to throw away development, that is part of the budget cap plainly does not make sense, no matter how much we want it to. The FIA will use the team's exploits to close any further loopholes on a more mature set of regulations and when they come up with something new the story will continue.
It was originally mooted that the cars would have been fitted with standard issue rear wings. They should have stuck with the idea and included the front wing as well.
Seeing the old gen cars makes me realise how much I miss the sharp aggressive styling
I thought the opposite. I loved the "Spec" car shown before 2022. Nice and smooth. In the last 2 years, the cars have gotten away from that because the teams have learned what they can and can't do.
The cars from 2017-2021 look bad. The are boxy and have weird proportions. It's nostalgia what you have, cause I like the 2013 cars more and they have a weird stepnose and high tight rearwings.
Looking at early 2000s regulations, I sometimes wonder why front wings are so wide these days. The tactic with the narrow wings was to bring the wake inboard of the front tyres, which all changed in 2009. With the current ground effect regulations it strikes me that a narrow front wing would make sense, as plenty of the turbulence can be pulled in under the car
F1 must be so pissed at max right now, to have such a dominant driver in the fastest car really has killed the excitement for many fans, but you put any other teams drivers in the RB and this is one of the best seasons of all time (except for Alonso and stroll, but tbh I think a lot of fans would enjoy seeing Alonso get a 3rd title)
I'm not angry at Max, but I am angry at Red Bull for their blatant favouritism of Max over any other driver. Pierre Gasly, Alex Albon and Sergio Perez are all great drivers as seen in other teams, but have been horrible mistreated by Red Bull during their tenures and have never been allowed to even remotely compete with Max. Say what you will about Mercedes but we got three years of the Hamilton-Rosberg teammate rivalry, we are never going to get anything like that from Red Bull.
@@calumbishop7082 I don’t think RB has mistreated Perez, (with the exception of Helmut Marko), his season this year has been very similar (arguably worse) to Albon's 2020 season, and they've not chucked him out despite having Ricciardo and Tsunoda in the AT.
The reality is Perez is “the tyre whisperer” and he’s in a car that's very light on its tyres, you put them both in the Haas and I think Perez is way more competitive with Max.
Max is the fastest driver on the grid - according to Toto Wolff (LH or MS might’ve been quicker in their primes but the current fastest is max), and he hasn't had an off day (and tbf LH was very consistent like max is when he was at McLaren) so I honestly don’t think there’s a driver you can put in the second RB who could’ve challenged Max this year
What happened to the "draconian" penalty? It was so draconian that it made red bull faster LOL
Not faster relative to where they would have finished otherwise.
If you eliminate Max, there would've been at least 6 or more different race winners this year. Idk if anyone could've predicted how strong the Max affect has been
I hear this argument a lot but someone would be in that car. You can't just imagine a world where Red Bull only raced 1 car. So the second part of this hypothetical is that the person driving the other Red Bull would be worse than Checo. Yeah if it was Checo and Sargeant, we may have had 6 more race winners 🤣
Hence it's why I call it F1.5 because Max is alone in F1.
the only thing we know for a fact is that only Max had manage to deliver that level of performance on that Red Bull car.
Checo isn't a bad driver, himself.
The fact that he is an F1 mainstay for years in a sports where drivers could come and go easily is a proof of that.
He have a lots of experience driving for different teams and different cars.
He adapted better to the Red Bull environment as compare to Gasly and Albon (who are/were already racing inside a Red Bull enviroment - Torro Rosso), and those two aren't really considered by many as bad drivers.
He was also instrumental in Max's 2021 drivers championship win.
Even challenging Lewis and offsetting him in several critical occassions.
Many people assume that any good driver can just take Red Bull's second seat, drive and runaway with it as if they can match Max's performance right off the bat.
And their argument is largely about dismissing Sergio's abilities by implying he is bad driver.
Also we have seen very good drivers like Lewis Hamilton and Daniel Ricciardo having a hard time adapting to cars which are't up to their preferences.
I think many people do not seem to consider that issue whenever they argue that any good driver can do what Max is doing in a Red Bull car.
Albon already alluded to the finicky nature of the Red Bull's cars, Max's peculiar and unique preferences,
and how Red Bull had driven the car development in sync and to complement Max's driving style (as Max is the driver that manage to extract the fullest of potentails of Newey's creations).
@@ruzaroosSomeone else would've definitely been in that car, but 100% wouldn't have done as well as Max has done.
what ive always thought they should do with the dirty air situation is instead of trying to limit it with inforced design elements, they should instead limit the dirty air each car can produce. So like they enforce that "a car must not reduce the car behinds downforce by more than 20%" but other than that they are free to design their car however they want or something. Means that there are no loopholes to produce dirty air because dirty air in itself would be illegal and also would allow more variation in the car designs.
Obviously i have no idea whether this is actually possible to enforce or what the results of it would be (or if its something they already do) but i feel like it would be a more efficent way to reduce dirty air
🛑🛑 The Wheel Bases are too Wide, too Long to allow over taking in DRS Zone; because they are too Short. 💯
The Cars are TOO Large!! 💯
Yo Race this has been the best analysis ive seen going into 2024. All we need is regulations that can close the gap in top 5 and make it much closer all together for top 10. Thank you for this information.
Once Verstappen has 7 titles as well and Perez 1, you can start to complain. Not before that!
Reality kicker:
Two teams - let me repeat that, TWO - have had a stranglehold on both championships for the last 15 years (if we count Brawn GP as Mercedes) across 5 different drivers champions.
In that perspective, it highlights the real problem the sport is in now. Ever since the regulations of ‘09 came into effect and allowed these two teams to leapfrog from the midfield to the front, they haven’t been stopped.
Compare this to the nineties alone, which everyone remembers fondly.
4 teams in 10 years won either championship with a grand total of 8 drivers.
This is broadly the same statistics for the 9 years of the 2000’s before ‘09. Schumacher did 5 on the trot, but then you also have Fernando for Renault, Kimi for Ferrari and Lewis for McLaren.
It says a lot when the last 15 years of the sport have had a worse different driver/team champions ratio that whole decades prior.
@@greatsageclok-roo9013Shows you how good RB and Merc have been as teams. Plus Ferrari tripping over themselves and Mclaren failing with Honda only for a Honda to be dominating in F1
I dunno if the temp of the Vegas track was really that beneficial. It wasn’t just the ambient temp, but huge long straights - sure brakes and such didn’t get too hot, but the tire surfaces basically never got up to temp which caused slip which made the tires deg faster
The biggest problems aero wise was the expanding of the front wing from 2009 onwards. It enabled the outwash effect to start from the front and in turn, increased the effect of the vortices from the mid-to-rear of the car, resulting in the expansive dirty air. That is why I am almost satisfied in where the 2026 regulations are going towards, and bringing more of an inwash effect to the aero, reversing a front wing design of the Ecclestone era that should have never happened.
The dirty air complaints were already a thing in 1999, but I would have to say the 08 cars were probably some of the worst for dirty air with their box-kite front wings and bargeboard-gore.
Actually, I need to go sift through early 90s championships and see if it's possible that the issues might have begun to creep in with the narrower cars post-Senna. The reduced size was specifically to hurt car stability and slow the cars down, but that may have just been what led to the downforce arms-race and the huge performance gaps of the early 2000s as some cars would be undrivable at any speed while others were turning into dirty air factories.
@@n8pls543 yeah I would also say that Wind-Tunnels were also in full force in car design in the early-90s too. And I think we are too quick to judge whatever regulations are coming into effect based off of previous years during the Ecclestone-period. I think the FIA and their aero team are spending enough hours coming up with ideas, which will only help the sport going forward
You are correct, F1 has become very predictable which makes people turn off. I have watched the races since the 80’s but this year was the first time that I skipped races and just watched the highlights as it was obvious what would happen. Just adding races isn’t the answer, the cars and drivers need to be able to compete otherwise what’s the point. How long before companies get fed up with hardly any return on their investment and sell up or worse just shutter the team
The problem is that teams dominating in one year carry that advantage over to every following year until the next rule change. Something needs to be done to rebalance teams at the end of each season so that everyone has a chance to start over from a level playing field. The diehard Max and Redbull fans lapping this up don't seem to realise they'll be tearing their hair out in a couple of years when another team is doing the same thing Redbull is now because that's how F1 regulations have played out for years. The 2021 title fight was pure dumb luck on the FIAs part since 2010 whichever team has had gotten their car right in the first year of a rule change has won every other year under those rules. You can argue how much of that is down to driver skill and good engineering in individual seasons but it clearly shows getting that first year right gives a big advantage that is very hard for any other team to overcome in the following years.
Saying for it for 15 yeard
2 simple changes to fix following in the short term:
1) narrow the front wings to inside the front tires. teams can no longer use outwash to generate performance from the front wing.
2) narrow the sidepod regulation box. teams like redbull, mclaren, alpine have sidepods that are so wide they are almost the full width of the rear whells. this outwash philosophy developed by redbull is most powerful because it pushes the air so far wide. being able to have the sidepods so wide exacerbates that.
The best show comes from a close title battle, not how close it is between cars in a singular race. 2021 is proof of that. If you want a good show, you need to bring the cars closer together, not necessarily put all the eggs into the race-ability basket.
the last 2 years have been the worst in f1 history. no competition at all. toto and vassuer admitted the season was over after baharain testing. just like i thought. no no is close to red bull. the problem is nobody can copy the new red bull until a could of months into the season. the championship will be over by then. f1 will change the rules for 2025. they cannot not wait until 2026 and have 4 terrible no competition years in a row.
The ride height change caused teams to focus more on top body aero than ground effect aero, as the gain is less now
That just is just plainly false, why do you think there was so much hype every time RB's floor was exposed this year?
Clawing back out wash has been a thing since the ground effect regs came into effect
that's not true, because the minimum ride height is still very effective if a car can properly run at it, like Red Bull. The problem is everyone else can't.
@@leo1fun It was a "Safety" issue and there were no rules that the teams that feared for their driver's lives had to run that low.
@@unfortunately_fortunate2000 it isn't as critical as it was before because the performance extraction isn't as great as if itw as closer to the ground as the seal is better the closer to the ground.
@@leo1fun true, but the general effect is weaker if the car is higher up
Snoremoreula 1. Red Bull have created the greatest F1 car ever but good lord it made for a disastrously dull season. I honestly don’t know what the fix is short of banning Adrian Newey.
Alonso said this weekend Adrian Newey is the reason he's not a 4x champion. I'm sure Vettel fans will disagree, but Fernando could be right.
For the zillioined time. Reduce the effency of the brakes! Longer braking zones make for better outbraking battles. Every rookie to F1 always say how INSANE the braking power is. So there is some leeway overthere. The brakes are some of the most scortching hot parts of these cars and are also the closest to the tires. Its beyond me how in the decades of " improving racing" they never took a look that route but just give the free top speed with a button instead of brake power that is still under the controle under the drivers foot.
I don't know why the FIA doesn't take a more output focused approach - i.e. design more or less what you like but the downforce loss on a reference design 1 car length behind can't be reduced by more than x% in the wind tunnel.
hopefully we get an exciting season next year if not with the 2026 cars will be entertaining to watch
I mean Red Bull barely touched this years car so we probably won't get an exciting season before 2026, maaaybe 2025 if McLaren or AM take some big steps the next 2 years
24 and 25 are dead on arrival. They might as well give Max and Redbull the trophies now and show classic races from the past instead
Single element wings. The more surfaces and adjustments the teams are allowed to make the more games they will play. Start taking things away from them.
Fia and formula 1 need to get away from the "show " aspect of it. Get back to racing. I don't care for all these street tracks. They need to realise "race fans" couldn't give a shit about the spectical. And we are not all American.....
Formula 1 looks kinda broken for many years now..Artificial ways to pass another car (DRS) , which makes the spectacle predictable, uninteresting sound which takes something of the passion and centered in the revenue more than the beauty of the sport. Also tyres that being destroyed after some laps, something that not helps teams and drivers unleash all of their abilitiy.
I still keep an eye on F1, but I'm not bothered about watching live anymore. It's predictable and seems more interested in turning itself into "drive to survive live" than being a sport.
WEC is much better.
Drive to survive live is so accurate. They're more concerned with entertainment than racing.
Typical LH/Merc fan 😂
I watch both, but... really?
Don't want to watch F1 live, it's too predictable! Unlike watching Toyota win all but one race in a season... which sounds familiar...
Only see it from Twitter now just like how I only updated about 2014-20 season by only reading Twitter and newspaper
Haha.... The Race will come up with something to stop Max. And the will bring it like they care about the sport haha.
When the current rules came out, I wondered why technical rules were so prescriptive as to the execution of aero rules.
The FIA wants cars to have a certain turbulence allowed in a car’s wake. Instead of measuring exactly that, why does it prescribe a solution that they think might get them there? Why not say “here’s how much turbulence you are allowed at X and Y distance from the rear of your wheels, design the solution you want”? Is it a problem of measurement, enforcement? A desire to have cars all look the same?
i dont understand how bridgestone managed to make tyres that can last 50% of a race or more with the big grooves in the middle and yet pirelli tyres are just destroyed after 14-17 laps.
Pirelli is an Italian manufacturer that sadly has a Made in China quality
Ever thought about that the FIA wants it like that ?
idk what to make of this sport rn, because dominance like this always happened. First with Lotus, then Mclaren, then Williams, then Ferrari, then RB, then Mercedes and the RB again. Maybe by the nature of this sports its destined to be like this, and only have 2 or 3 good years of fight in each decade.
I think they need rules in place long enough for the teams to all develop and level out. They seem to want to keep changing the rules as soon as all the teams come together. 21 was great, then new rules and now it’s not great. All the teams will probably be close together in 25 and then we’ll get new rules in 26 and start all over. Just my amateur opinion… I’m sure I’m over simplifying. Hopefully 😂
Get rid of drs, bring back refueling, free tire choice/use during race. Yes they’re would have to be changed with tires.
They need to limit the use of DRS for cars on the front. For example, you can simply assign the number of DRS to each car. If you start at first, you will get 3 DRS right entire race. If you start at third place, you’re allowed to use 8 DRS, and if you are starting at 10th place, you are free to use 20 DRS. Also, they will be allowed to use anytime they want lol
I don't understand why a rule change along the lines of, "teams may not cause x% outwash with front wing designs" could not work. Seems like rules in that manner would solve the outwash issue better while not having to make the rules too explicit in the front wing area. No way to get around the real reason for the front wing rules, while allowing the teams maximum freedom to do other things. If we know the outwash effect from the wing design the rulemakers originally imaged is, codify that level and no more, you get the desired effect. I'm sure it could be measured.
Yes, but the FIA has always loved to overcomplicate things.
@@Lianpe98 that's funny because the rule book for WEC is fairly simple. Same for WRC.
Can thermal degradation be helped through brake venting? I'm asking cause I love F1 and never have heard of that
If you take Verstappen out of the equation this season would have been one of the greatest in terms of parity and on-track action. There were incredible battles happening for positions 2-10 at every race. I don't think the problem is with the aero regs, I think you've got another case of the best driver in the best car, and the gulf between that pairing and everyone else was made more extreme by Red Bull getting away with playing cost cap games without meaningful punishment, giving them a leg up that will continue to pay dividends.
Yeah excluding Max it was very close with all the other drivers and teams.
The real thing hurting the racing is how dominant one car is. RB19 had over 95% win rate, most dominant of all-time.
Interestingly enough when you compare the car to other dominant (Early 2000s Ferrari, 2014-2016,2020 Mercedes) cars it didn't dominate qualifying 1-2 every weekend, wasn't lapping most of the field every weekend. Perez showed the car didn't drive itself.
One of the biggest factors besides Max? Was the reliability which with Max was perfect all year.
@@hankrearden5460That car was more designed around Race trim i would say the W11 was more dominant in quali 15/17 poles vs 14/22 RB19 however i do think if RB had someone better than Checo then i think they could’ve gotten more poles
F1 needs to design regulations to allow drivers to push 100% of the time. How many times throughout a season do we hear about tyre management, lift and coast, stay off the curbs, etc.
Maybe there also needs to be some kind of success penalty too to mix the order up a bit. Like in BTCC where your hybrid usage is limited with success, why not do something similar with F1?
For example the top 5 in the previous race have their battery power limited, something like 1st place has 75%, 2nd 80%, 3rd 85%, 4th 90%, 5th 95% and 6th onwards are 100%.
If this mixed up the order enough it would bring back a lot of viewers. For example there are times when Williams or HAAS can be strong in qualifying, getting into the top 10, but they soon fall back in the race. If success penalties were in place then starting 6th or 7th knowing the cars in front are down on power could mean keeping that position or even moving up the grid is a lot easier.
Viewing F1 is also very expensive, or at least in the UK it is. We have a Sky package that I'd say is used 50% for just watching F1. The channel itself is something like £10 a month, even during the winter and summer breaks. But you need a Sky package in order to get this channel and you're looking at £100 a month usually. That's over £50 a race just to watch it live.
If it was made more affordable it would gain a lot more viewers. 100 people paying £10 a month is a lot more than 10 paying £50 a month at no extra cost to the broadcaster.
I think a fair comment would be that “all sports require competitive integrity and that the very nature of F1 (ie the man and machine element) will not and can not allow for this without fundamental changes that could never be implemented due to the way in which is built financially. You’ll never know nor could you ever speculate who is the better driver unless you have first ascertained who are the best 2 drivers are, and then secondly put them in the same car, this then is not conducive with a genuine comparison of ability given the fact that if 2 drivers are in the same car then they are at the same team and as we all know will result in team orders being implemented and the drivers competitive edge being greatly subdued!”.
Get rid of DRS, drop the tyre compound rules (let the driver use whatever tyres he wants), bring back refuelling, get rid of hybrids and BRING BACK V10'S.
Wow, you want less overtaking like when they had those rules and we had races with zero overtakes in the entire race.
It's crazy isn't it... We get a regulation change when racing is at its closest. And then one team goes off and dominates again. If we pushed these cars back a few more years with how close other teams were getting with merc we'd have a much more intense and exciting championship, but now we'll have red bull dominance. The teams will catch up and then boom. Switch to a different one.
i was wondering what wd happen if we had another season with 2021 spec (or a slight development of that spec) cars. Another RB vs MB fight wd be so so cool.
@@ryugatsuchiya9018nope, bring on mclaren and astton martin, we are done wit MB, let them sit out a couoke of years, Red bull did between 2013 and 2021
More reliable tyres, ban on DRS and any aero that messes with the outwash. re: DRS - If we are 'racing closely', why even allow the aritificial overtake system?
Regarding the final point in the video about viewership. 2021 was one of the most exciting seasons on record and the following two seasons felt like a drag. Don't get me wrong, Max and Co are great fun but midway through the 2023 season I was already bored. To the point that I wouldn't bother watching the races live and just got the highlights on YT. Makes me weary about renewing my sub for next year...
The “worst” problem is rampant speculation and misinformation.
If you want to blame anyone for lack of action this year blame Mercedes, they pushed for the TD39 last summer and it screwed Ferrari over badly they fell away last year and had to redesign the floor for this year that wasn’t planned and then the FIA got rid of the TD which is even more frustrating.
That's all nonsense, a driver and the car must master all facets of racing under all circumstances as best as possible. If the car and driver can't do that, you haven't done the homework properly.
2 more years we need to listen to the Dutch national anthem 😮😊
The big thing I see is teams adding hard edges on their rear wings. I am sure it’s “within the rules” written but it’s against the spirit.
That’s up to FIA to police
"The tv ratings were down for the second year running"
Well, when we already know the finishing order of the race before the lights go out, what's the point in watching?
You knew who would win but nobody knew who was going to be 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th
😂😂😂 it’s cos it’s behind paywalls and previous years it wasn’t for many worldwide….. F1 wants too much money
@@Redlingstein Its been behind paywalls in Britain for quite some times now....
"Closer racing" they said
The racing as a whole has been better, but it doesn't matter when one car can walk 40 seconds ahead without contention. However, that is no dig at what Redbull achieved in their design, and the dedication to Max.
It's all fixed as you well know,lost interest like your self.
I know what your feeling,we are t seeing the best drivers drive,just a privileged entitled *******
They are doing that.
I think front wings generating outwash which is something the FIA wanted to explicitly eliminate with this rule set, is more than enough reason for the FIA to intervene and outlaw. Does bribary from teams for the FIA not to change the rules come under the cost cap or is that deemed "necessary non-inclusive expendature"?
Sad they still aren't capable of writing the rules in such a way that 'pointy sticky uppy bits and all other kinds of protrusions off the main body of the car will be removed with a hammer before the race begin'
Do you truly see 2026 being a real game change. These cars are too big too heavy and over reliant on DRS, and that is without all the drivers reporting the car in front for white line breaches.
If you can't win on the track, win on the radio. -- Merc
I'm not holding my breath. The 2026 cars will get smaller and lighter, but I've seen the data and the difference isn't that much. I don't think it will make much difference.
@@thomasvleminckx I am not sure about the new battery system either.
Part of the reason ratings are down is because of saturation(a lot of races) and Sprint weekends. If you force something the masses doesn't want, you will lose some of that audience.
Part of the reason is also that a lot of people don't want to watch races when they already know who's going to win especially if they have to pay a subscription fee for the privilege
I think this is a non-issue tbh - when a car is faster than the one in front, they can almost always get past due to DRS. The only real exception is Monaco. Otherwise, overtaking is as easy as it needs to be and often too easy.
I truly can not understand why the regulations are created from the viewpoint of "make specific regulations to catch every loophole", instead of the viewpoint of "here's the target, do what you want but you can not violate this target"? The entire dirty air problem can be solved by imposing a strict and measured standard, and each new part to be added to the car has to pass that standard before it can be used. The ability to measure the air coming off of the car and it's affects on the car behind already exists, hence create a standard that gives a specific target not to be exceeded. This also would encourage more innovation as now teams have more freedom to do whatever they want to try and solve their issues as long as they meet the standard. Cool new ideas get to happen and the ability for cars to follow remains constant, and audiences get some great racing.
2026 will not 'rectify' anything - it will just change how one team dominates. F1 is not about interesting racing or any kind of parity. Just look at how often Verstappen was in the lead within the first two laps and then just pulled away - like Hamilton did before him. Instead of close battles and driving skill we get closeups of 'celebrities' I've never heard of in the VIP areas. Woohoo!
It's official. WEC, GT racing, and IMSA are now THE PINNACLE OF MOTORSPORT.
Heck, F2 races are more entertaining.
Touring cars and moto gp is much better these days too.
@@adamb2619Because everyone has the same car.
Always has been.
F1 is a constructors championship………..
Formula1 is all about finding the limits of the regulations and the stricter the regulations the more creative the idea's of the teams will be. It will inevitably just lead to more and more rules and more and more infringement controversy, it will kill the sport in my humble opinion. Either make it a spec series or don't over regulate it plz... The only thing that can bring the field together is keeping regulations the same for longer time.
Very interesting, thanks 👍
Why Max's dominance is a problem but Schumi's and Lewis' weren't? I loved F1 this year, for me it was one of the best seasons
wat
Even as a Mercedes fan, I wouldn't say 2020 was one of the best season, on the contrary it was as worse as this year.
Let me know when Lewis or Michael won 28 out of 33 races. This is nothing like Lewis or Michael "dominance" , which meant winning a little more than half the races. At this point, I'm only curious about when F1 will intervene. If Max wins the first 10 races next year and pushes this up to 38 out of 43 races, the sport will be in crisis.
Their dominance was a problem too.
First year since the 70's that I did not watch one whole race, live or recorded. Did not feel like I missed anything watching highlights only! Would gladly pay for F1TV but you know, SkyF1.... So no changes in my habits unless the racing gets better!
Acrive aero provides a solution to this or just go back to one front wing element ???
Maybe make 3 compounds and bring them to every track. Have 2 durable compounds a Quali tire. The make it mandatory to use all 3 in the race.