Chainsaw Muffler Mod Testing--Dyno HP/TORQUE vs HEAT Comprehensive Results
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2024
- LOOK at the results of these basic chainsaw muffler mods and the HP, and especially HEAT, found with each type of exhaust modification. Help me with ideas to test to find the best all-around muffler mod for our powersaws to get the best combination of heat, hp, noise, etc...
We can now measure heat in the engine while the engine is under a constant and specific (although variable) load. This new feature is allowing us explore how heat is effected by IGNITION TIMING, Muffler Mods, Tuned pipes, SINGLE RING VS TWO RING, Spark Plug ranges, etc... the possibilities are endless. As with anything, I'm sure that there will be growing pains and adjustments to be needed. I believe we need to fine-tune how long the chainsaw should be “loaded” (test period) ; we also need to determine a standard temp for a starting point.
This will/should remove ANOTHER variable from the HP/TQ results on the dyno; I can get a higher HP reading by doing the dyno test while the saw's engine is cooler (as the saw gets warmer and warmer, it makes marginally less and less HP.. we can negate that by warming to a specific temp each time.
I think this is exciting and I am absolute that I have never seen this capability displayed on youtube or internet; I think we (you and I) are the first to have this breakthrough!
This is the continuation of the Stihl 026 Build which we are doing step-by-step.
Current Numbers 3rd Cyl
98 Exhaust
68.5 (137) Intake
120 Xfers (22 BD)
.018 Squish
We are currently testing Muffler Mods and have another round (or two) of muffler mods to test. After that , we will test (order has not been determined yet) Ignition Timing, Single Ring, (possibly/probably) Finger Ports
Stay tuned for further modifications and results.
There is a playlist with the build to this point as well as text cuts and dyno results. Subscribe to continue to see the continuing build of this powersaw and progress results on the dynomometer.
Subscribe to continue to see Chainsaw porting and modifications, how we make Firewood, run the Sawmill, Bale Hay, tend to our Sheep, Hogs, Cattle, Peacocks, Chickens, Guineas, and Doggos. You will also see me making gadgets, tools, and other stuff to make farmlife easier on this homestead.
I don't waste much of anything... especially resources! If there is a way to do something cheaper or easier, I'm searching for it.
Contact me in the comments and/or contact me on Facebook at Everystuff Farming and/or everystufffarming@gmail.com
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Randomly found your channel. This is some of the best content I have seen in a long time. I love the method and approach to this. You are actually answering/debunking so many ideas/myths. Where are you based out of?
Do you have a video on your dyno set up? I'm getting to the point where I want one/need one. Love this channel brother! Keep'em coming!
@gasaxecustomsaws Thanks so much for the kind words! Glad you found us and, especially glad you joined-in. They dyno and spreadsheet are all my fabricobbled homebrew hairbrained micrometerized-sledgehammer idea/build. I have not done a video of the build of the dyno yet... I have all the recordings of each step (including making the driven pulley), Will probably make a series of it at some point.
Am located southern Illinois.
Thanks again for joining-in and don't be a stranger!
@gasaxecustomsaws ...also, about 2 chainsaw vids from now will show more of the dyno and some insight... not the build, but some explanations which had been requested.
Great approach to research! Love your channel. So glad I stumbled across it !
@toddzilla6491 I'm awful glad you found us (me and all who join-in down here), too!! I am especially glad you felt comfortable to get down here in the sand box with us!
Glad to be here! I’m converting an MS250
42.5mm. For RC use.
You’re the only solid fact driven information I could find. I’m disabled and money is tight. I now know the engine can for sure produce 3hp at 8-10,000rpm. I have a custom header and expansion chamber. Along with a 13.9mm walboro carb.
Thank you very much!! I will continue to follow your channel for all the honest , fact
driven engine and saw talk👍
@toddzilla6491 Money being tight and being frugal is a way of life that I embrace and welcome... I've seen way more "good folk" among the poor; but, on the other hand, having enough money to burn a wet mule doesn't make a person bad
!! Disability, I can sympathize and have often thought about how lucky I am; I've got a terrible back problem, but I can still motorvate!!
There's an older video about a Stihl 029 that I put out earlier in the year; it's substantially similar to an MS250 and it may dang well be of interest to you and a mod that you can do for little-to-no money. Another subscriber did the same thing on a MS250 with mere hand tools. 3HP is NOT a problem with the MS250; I love to port them little buggers!!
I got cancer 2 years ago. My right kidney was a 9 lb tumor. My left is only working at 20% now. I can sympathize with your bad back. I’ve had two back surgeries. I got smashed by a forklift in 2015. 40 fractures
And a lot of suffering.
But I pulled through all that. And can still use my hands. I’m building my dream rc plane. And working on a motor with enough power. Your testing and data are going to help me achieve that dream! Maybe you can answer a question for me. Where exactly does the pulse line from the crankcase go. I think I’m supposed to tap the bottom cover on the carb and put a brass barb in for it to attach to. But don’t really know. Thanks for replying to me!! You made my day buddy!🙂
@toddzilla6491 The impulse barb on the engine's case goes up and attaches to a nipple on the saw's plastic carcass; the carb, then mounts to a rubber boot; the rubber boot is flat-faced and the carb is pulled tight to it by the two bolts; on the flat face of the boot is a little hole that aligns with the plastic barb/hose on one side and the carb on the other. The impulse line doesn't directly plug-in on the carb. It is possible to drill/tap or epoxy an impulse into the carb... or see if there's a ready-made version of the carb with an impulse line already on it; I'm not sure which carb that would be.... but I bet there's one that would be a direct fit.
If the hands and the mind work, that's a big win!! Thanks for being here and joining-in!!
Very interested in the pipe length video and the hot spot method. See what the dyno says!
@happy8637 Working on getting it edited right now; coming soon! Thanks for encouraging words and for joining-in!!
Dyno Joe did test on like a 1.5" pipe found 12" to be a sweet spot 😉 hot 🔥 spot sounds muy bueno
Was a 90cc saw I forgot to mention lol... I got excited 😁
@z1berzerker Man oh man, he's the berries, ain't he??!! The hot spot (next video) did make a difference!... had to order more mufflers... this thing is a can of worms!! 🤣🤣 and more fun than a barrel of monkeys. 🐒🐒
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 I am just a Dingle Berry, trying to understand this 💩 💩 lol 😆 I pick it up every now and again... You are tryin like Brian 👍 😎 love it man
@z1berzerker 🤣😂😂 Love IT!!!!!
Very cool. Interested in the hot spot cut, never heard that before.
@kraftzion I'm interested to find out too!! It works great on 4 stroke, but, then again, you don't really want bounce-back on a 4 stroke. I'm anxious to find out though! We'll have results pretty soon Lord willing and the Creeks don't rise!
Another informative and educational video! I really appreciate your scientific approach to all this.
Sometimes back when I cut and heated with wood I'd get so involved with hobbies or TV shows and forget I needed to cut wood until I put the last stack in the stove. And it was my luck to have to go cut wood in a pouring down rain.
Which brings me to my question. Do you think a rain cap on the exhaust pipe would effect the efficiency of my saw. I was afraid it might so I left it open and just covered the pipe with an old Viena sausage can between cuts. Which worked, don't get me wrong. But if you've never cranked up a high efficiency Husqvarna chainsaw in a torrential rainstorm and got hit in the head by a Viena sausage can launched from a pipe from a bark box, you've really never truly fully enjoyed the wood heat experience.
@MikeLouder1 Well now, Mike... that opens potential for more testing. I always used one of them little bird whistles (ya know, the plastic ones that are filled with water for kids to blow on?) on my Stihls and Poulans. For Macs and Huskys, I always thought a P-trap from an old bathtub may be the way to go. I was going to dyno test JUST THAT idea before, but... well... ummm... it wasn't rainin!!!
@MikeLouder1 Oh forgot... t'ain't NUTTIN' like wood heat! 😉🤫
I like it! Looking forward to the next one. 👍
@230e4 Thanks!! This dang muffler thing could be.... every time I do something, I think of 4 more variations that I want to try. Hope all is well with ya!
Did you guys get any winter in NY this year? Hardly any here... I swatted a mosquito in mid Feb.
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 I actually live in Northern Pennsylvania and am cutting some jobs in New York. We had but one decent snow here and a few cold snaps. It has been the worst winter for getting logs trucked off my job, thankfully I am able to do timber stand improvement there to keep money coming in. We have had a few days were the temp was in the 60s and yes I too saw mosquitoes in February. Like alot of folks, but for the trucking I wouldn't mind it.
Keep em coming!
@joecasatelli4825 Heck yeah! This lil ol muffler thing is dang fun to do and see!
Pretty cool bit of information about the long tractor pulling pipe. The bark box type works pretty good. You need to keep trying exhaust pipes, you will find one that's will work better I'm sure. You ever see Buckin Billy ray ramhorn pipe? I like the way they look and sound. I want to make one someday and see how it works. I like the series. Keep up the good work.
@TheJohnDeereGuy I did see @BuckinBillyRaySmith 's Ramhorn and seems like @tinmanssaws really likes the one he had built (latest video at this point). I think we will spend some considerable time on pipes before this is all said and done; I wanted to start with ones that most anyone with a torch or welder can cobble together; the ramhorn takes a *LOT* more patience and finesse to complete, have looking good, and still have a functional work saw without a dog-knot hindering felling trees and/or chucking the saw in the bed of the truck without breaking the cyl casting. Thanks for always joining-in and being a fine example!
You are awesome 👌 my friend 💙👍😎
@z1berzerker Thanks Sir... oops... Joe! 😂😉 What a community we have here; thanks for being a wonderful example!!!
In automotive applications egr or exhaust gas recirculation. Is an emissions device. It lowers combustion temperature to reduce nox emissions. I would bet it is a similar theory to that.
@erichaymore5902 I hadn't considered that; I haven't thought of smog pumps and egr valves since the 80's and actually never fully understood it then. I like you're thinking though! Thanks for joining-in!!
I might have missed it, but did you block off the OE muffler hole?
Won't be long now for 1k subs!🎉
@scottk8967 The very-first original can still has the hole in the front. The after-market lids had 2 slots punched in the corner (louvered); I pinched those shut in the previous video when I started with the .410 and .5" holes.
1000 subs... like the monkey said when he got his tail in the meat grinder... "won't be long now!!" 🤣😉
Thanks for always being here!!
I'll have to back up and rewatch this one. Did you mention different temp readings?
What was ID of long pipe? The results fit the name, goofy. I expected something that long to fall on it's face at high rpm not actually reach higher. Makes me question what I thought I understood.
Have you considered labeling the digital readouts you put on screen? Could be helpful.
@Kevin.L_ Dadgummit!! I thought I had ALL of those mentions of exhaust temp edited-out. I tried a different temp probe in the exhaust can (the one which WAS toughing the aluminum previously); I even spliced in about 10' of phone cord to further isolate the probe/wires from vibration so the readout wouldn't shut down; it didn't work; sorry to get hopes up and not deliver. Still working on it... won't work on next video either, but I have stuff ordered in-hopes-of getting exhaust temp. Don't remember it was Archer, Black Dog, Farmless Farmer, you, or just who gave the good suggestion of measuring exhaust temp... I'm trying but getting knocked around a little along the way trying!!
The long pipe sure reached out farther; bigger pipe may help it build more HP and still reach out... almost a moot point in that it's unusable.
The pipe was 0.610" or 15.5mm. Think larger pipe may be in order.
I think labeling the screens is a great idea; may be a bit, but a great idea!! Once I get the other heat figured out, I may try to mount all in a "bezel" of sorts and label them with their corresponding generic factors (IE; the one with yellow is 2x Shaft RPM. That reading divided by 0.70 will give engine speed (with a 7 pin drive,24 pin driven, and 2 magnets for the hall-effect sensor).
The scale reading (the top blue readout) is the scale; it is multiplied by (with the current torque arm and gearing) is multiplied by 0.153 with an additional variable (chain drag and bearing drag) which changes (and is measured) with each pull.
I do think it would be helpful for people to understand.
The bottom (smallest) readout is temp; right now, the red is ambient temp and the blue is the temp of the decompression plug.
Great suggestions!! Thanks Kevin.
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 Thanks for the info. I'm sure it's been explained in the past but I didn't take notes and memory isn't reliable. Ambient temp never even crossed my mind.
As far as exhaust temp goes, that seems more useful for tuning. From what little I know about the subject.
Wondering if the reason the bark box works so well is the reduced volume, like the original with the baffle in place.
More questions than answers.
@Kevin.L_ Oh, I know right??!! I don't remember having ever explained the numbers I present; nobody ever asked!!!
REDUCED VOLUME!!! Dangit KEVIN!!! you're letting the cat out of the bag. 🤫 There's another can (the part that bolts to the engine; not the "lid") that's been sitting on the bench in about every video... it has a "baffle" welded in it which does not restrict flow (like a typical baffle) in that it's just below the exhaust port and angled to the lip of the can; its only purpose is to reduce volume. You're getting ahead of the game... QUIT READING MY MIND!!!!! 😂 🧙♂️🤯
"More questions than answers" ... BOY OH BOY, you said a mouthful there!!!
I believe you are right on the using exhaust temp for tuning; there is still ONE variable in my dyno that sticks in my craw; and, it's the tuning. If I had something I wanted to "win" (instead of trying my best to be impartial to each step); I could dang sure change the tune to change the outcome; hope to sew up that little loophole too. Ain't figured how to deal with ambient temp with respect to the other temps, though. Don't know how much difference it makes; so far, I'm trying to have a few tests all built for the same day to attempt to negate it some... because I don't know how to factor it reliably. Awesome exchange Kevin!!
@@HayChaffandSawdust1 Didn't mean to push things along too fast. I'll not tell anyone about the big plans. Guess it shouldn't be much of a shocker that a big empty box isn't the best for flow.
I read in some 2 stroke book years ago that short stub exhaust, no chamber, maybe 3"?, was recommended as a baseline for testing. Seems like that was short enough to have no tuning effect.
I'd want to use that exhaust temp sensor for tuning, but it would take some research to choose a target temp. Or just pick the tune you like and tune to that temp each time.
@@Kevin.L_ Short/Stubby an Ironhorse pipe? I do like them, but i only have one or two customers that think the noise is worth the gain. Personally, I like them. A residential tree guy brought me some logs yesterday; people like him don't want the noise in town... I get it. Sorry... got rambling off-topic.
As far as exhaust temp, i have no idea of a goal; thought, much the same as you, it may make an aide for tuning for the Dyno. My saws, I don't care; I tune them fat and to idle. I'm trying to paint this dyno into a corner so it has NO wiggle room to lie to me. Don't get me wrong, it's pretty decent; I always want better.
Been thinking on this one for about a day now, I’m wondering if that baffle left in the can, in the pipe you and Kevin are talking about acts like a primary, before the main portion of expansion happens, keeping velocity up a little longer before expansion. What if you were to put a 1” primary spacer on the inlet of the can, just stepping it off the cylinder. I wonder if that would get us some of the effects of a pipe while running a can. Giving performance and letting people needing to use an actual muffler still use one.
Like Kevin’s idea of a notecard labeling your digital readings.
Thanks again for taking the time to do all this testing! Gets the brain moving for sure.
@Archer_82 Are you talking about putting a pipe between the cylinder and the muffler or are you talking about putting a piece of pipe INSIDE the muffler? I haven't been giving any grey matter to this one... yet. My mind went straight to muffler inside of the can due to the stand-off of putting the muffler an inch or two farther out and making is susceptible to always being up against a piece of wood when bucking.
I also like @Kevin.L_ idea of labeling the readouts and also giving the multiplication factor in the event anyone wants to do their own calculations at a given point. I *THINK*, once I get the other thermocouple temp meter in, I will manufacture a bezel to hold all 4 readouts and label them at that point.
It sure does get the brain moving; as we speak, I've already recorded the pipe/length video and a diminished-volume can with the 3/4" hole lid, the bark box lid, and the lid with the shortened pipe. I haven't entered the numbers, but it looks like more gains on some... and more heat.
I've about worn-out the threads on the saw's cases for the outside two muffler bolts; going to have to heli-coil them' I guess. I've probably had the mufflers off/on in-excess-of 50 times at this point.
Man O Man, I'm having fun.
Archer, thanks for always being here, being a fine example, and good offering thoughts/suggestions! Same goes for you, Kevin!
I was thinking between the can and the jug, yes. However, you may be able to get a similar outcome with a primary pipe inside the can, if clearance is an issue.
@Archer_82 Sure is something to try; not sure if it will work well on this platform, especially with a stock can. May try on this one at some point or another platform 'cause I sure like the idea!!
@@HayChaffandSawdust1maybe the 440? Seems like it may have the room. When i make it to that point, i was thinking a couple inch long primary feeding off center, into a pice of 1-1/2 pipe as an extension area then further around the arc, a pair of 1/2” exit, think of the primary feeding like a turbo inlet, but the outlet pipes at the outer edges.. not a great word picture.. I’ll weld one after I make it through a few other in progress projects.
@@Archer_82 I'm trying to follow, but missed where the stock exhaust can was in the pipes; insomuch as I made a living with words and understanding, I'm more of a picture/hands-on person. Can you sketch it on a napkin (best diagram paper in the world) and email it to me. It sounds like you're onto something, but I'm not up-to-speed on all of the thought you have given this. Sorry you picked a dullard with whom to communicate!!!