I’m a 41 yr old seasoned hiker with multiple hunting and tracking skills, I know when to push further and when to leave. For the most part the outdoors will tell you when to leave but for those that do not know or can not tell is when the outdoors can turn. A key factor is sound, once the outdoors goes silent is when it’s time to leave. I have heard this multiple times throughout the years. I learned this early on from my uncle and also my best friends father. I’m not trying to scare anyone here but if you do not watch and listen to the outdoors the outdoors will watch and listen to you. Pls stay safe and enjoy the outdoors that is given to us but respect it just the same.
There is a mountaintop small "lake" in NE TN that was damned-up MANY years ago by early settlers. Its not very frequented by people as the hike is decently strenuous and its just kinda out of the way of the state wilderness area that its in. All 3 times Ive been there were in the summer, usually midmornings. As you get closer to the area the forest falls totally silent. No birds, no insects, nothing. The pattern freaked me out more than anything and while I have my photos from my times there to remember, Ill never go back. I was stupid to return and just happy im still around lol.
when things goes silent it means something is there, making the animals and even insects go silent so they cannot be detected, whatever been causing these vanishings is sentient and knows what it's doing, due to belongings being found stacked neatly etc etc. doubt it's the outdoors, unless the outdoors, or nature itself is sentient
No you are absolutely correct. I have a buddy I hike with a couple times a year and we ran to this one time at skyline. It wasn't only the silence, it was a very ominous feeling. I told my buddy to stop and take in what's going on. At first he didn't notice and then he gave me this look and turned around immediately. He has 20 years on me so I didn't ask any questions and followed.
Several people have commented that when things get quiet, and no nature sounds can be heard, take evasive action. Get out of the area, usually back the way you came in.
I’m Canadian and there are hundreds of missing and murdered indigenous women that the RCMP have turned a blind eye to. It’s shameful, these people deserve justice
Same down here in the states. In the Dakotas and west there are a TON of missing indigenous women and no one seems to care. I’d take a wild guess why but I’d be called a race baiter 😒
Seems like every channel I used to follow started a MMIWC subject, they’d get 1 or 2 videos and talk about a never ending supply of content, then just stop, haven’t figured it out yet
I was raised to fire 3 rounds of ammunition if I ever got lost in the woods. That might have been something Aaron knew as well. Could explain the 3 spent rounds. "The International Distress Signal is three signals of any kind - three gunshots or three whistle blasts." -beasafehunter
@@TheLoreLodge some people would shoot you if you get caught someone's property. Especially at dawn or nightfall. And some game wardens are like mallcop now and then. Especially on geen boxes or State land.
As a deer hunter, I can assure you that hunters get lost and some go out to the peaceful place they love to end it all if life becomes unbearable for them. However, David has uncovered some pretty bizarre stuff. A certain percentage just do not make logical sense at all.
They all make sense. David has uncovered nothing. There is a field of study called "lost person behavior" Google it. It's been around way before thus huckster.
@@angrynapolean3820 did you Google it? Actually I made a mistake it's lost person behavior. It is a serious study by real SARS guys after studying 150,000 missing people. DP is a joke in comparison. Your brain does weird things when you realize you are truly lost.
@@SlickArmor that's really sad that you would make the statement they all make sense nothing always make sense it's things that come that you cannot fathom things happen in life that don't make sense what do you mean all make sense
As someone that’s been lost in the woods, it’s easy to freak out and make dumb decisions. I was driving deer with my girlfriend’s brother in woods I was unfamiliar with and got separated. Instead of heading back up the mountain to the road, I followed boot tracks that went down further to a creek. I yelled and fired SOS shots, but heard nothing back. I started following the creek remembering there was a bridge right next to the cabin we were based at. After filling my boots with water and walking for about 300 yards, I remembered I had a cell phone and service. I called my girlfriend and she asked what was up. I told her I was lost and asked if they heard my shots, she said no and she was at the cabin, and told me to follow the creek. After walking another 500 yards hopping from one side to the other, the guy who owned the cabin hollered down to me. I started making my way up the steep hill to the crest and he helped me up. I was exhausted, cold, and pretty embarrassed, but alive. I can only imagine the fear people experience when in more remote locations.
@@kelsielovesbbuabsolutely, I was talking with a guy I work with who worked late one day, he went into the gym, practiced basketball for about 30 minutes, grabbed his water bottle and suddenly his heart began beating super fast. He told me “I thought I was going to just lay down on the floor and die…” I said You’re phone was with you wasn’t it? He replied with It was on the floor about 20 feet from him but he didn’t even give thought to the phone until his heart had calmed down 30 minutes later, he got his stuff, locked the door and it wasn’t until he was on his way home that he realized he had a way to call for help… Our minds go primal when we panic
Glad you got home safe BUT your story seems to indicate how people will usually survive getting lost even after half panicking. The thing about some 411 cases is that a body is simply never found.Not even after many years when guns, modern clothing, belt buckles etc would not decompose. This sloppy and very inaccurate vid does not mention the most important and mysterious common factor....that dead bodies are found with shoes removed. This is completely different to the alleged phenomena of paradoxical undressing. No-one who is lost takes their boots off. No-one does that.
I can't remember what is called but because cell phones are still relatively new we do tend to forget they exist. I think it's called technesia but I'm not sure.
Aaron's revolver with three fired shells isn't much of a mystery he probably became coherent enough to fire emergency signal shots at some point in his episode, which requires exactly three bullets.
Well, the classic hunter distress signal that they even teach in hunter safety is three evenly spaced shots fired in a safe direction. Fire the first shot, slowly count two maybe 3 seconds, fire the second, count two seconds, fire the third (always in a safe direction with each shot). If you are a hunter who hears the distress shot signal, you fire two evenly spaced in return. Fire once, count two seconds, fire the second shot. The issue is that the initial distress discharge really needs to be three shots. One or two just isn't enough to get the attention of other hunters. This a very old custom probably goes back to the frontier days, would be my guess. A lot of missing 411 hunters do not bring sufficient ammunition. This prevents them from being able to fire distress shots. In Aarons case, he may have fired 3 shells, but if he only had six shots in the cylinder, he might have kept three bullets in the encase of a mountain lion or bear. Then he might have become inchorehent again. The other is that while pistols are much louder than rifles due to the shorter barrel (kind of like straight pipe exhaust) I have heard that the sound from a pistol report even a high powered magnum doesn't travel as far.
the fact that Bart’s friends were the ones to find his remains after the authorities had failed to thoroughly investigate the disappearance is so upsetting. i cannot imagine how it would feel to be failed in that way (KNOWING they’ll still get paid for it) and not only having to go check for yourself, but being the ones to find your dead friend.
He probably was not there when the search parties went through the area. That is one of the great mysteries with all of the missing people being found where they have searched several times.
Personally I think he flipped out and they killed him. They felt bad for his family so they recovered the body. His friends were NOT HELPFUL during the investigation but somehow found the body. They’re the most suspicious “friends” ever.
One of the leading scientific agencies in Australia used to ban their scientists/engineers from driving home in peak hour - the reason; they think too much, don't pay attention and we're getting into accidents. Smart people getting lost and/or going missing is not surprising...the very 'smart' also often have too much curiosity and not enough self preservation instincts.
Smart people don't always use their wise mind when making decisions. Some people let anxiety or emotions guide them no matter how book smart they are. Keep calm and use your wise mind.
High education (a) does not necessarily mean you are wise or have great common sense and (b) does not remove the cognitive biases (such as confirmation bias and groupthink) that literally all humans share
I think it’s a stretch that “smart people just think too much”-dumb people think, they just have worse problem solving and rationalizing abilities. That sounds like a correlation being confused as causation problem. All people are more likely to get in wrecks during peak driving times.. duh lol I highly doubt people with high IQ are predisposed to being in car wrecks because of inattention or “thinking too much”
Grew up in the woods pretty far from other people and spent most of my life wandering in the forest. You never realize how incredibly easy it is to lose your landmarks until you do. You walk in one direction just a little longer than usual and suddenly you're completely lost and have no idea what direction you need to walk in to get out. Its an incredibly scary experience. Happened to me a few times, absolutely mortifying every time. It's partially luck and partially learned behaviors that let me find my way home each time. It is unbelievably easy to get lost in nature. Scarily easy. Even if it's a place you've been hundreds of times, even if you're not far from home or from people. It is unbelievably easy.
I'm on 5 acres half woods, and I've been lost on my own property 😅 if it wasn't for my cat who followed me, I would have been wandering around in circles. I started following my cat, and he quickly led me back to the trail. Almost as if he knew I was lost.
My hubby and my brother were camping in a popular tourist spot, climbed up a really easy to see path, but on the way back down it was nearly indistinguishable from the surrounding bush. They ended up with one walking ahead, and if they were sure they were still on the path, calling the other one down (staying in sight of each other at all times). If that could happen where they were, it could happen anywhere.
Man. I can see how the color value for the path could completely change for an observer depending of the angle between your eyes and the path, the light and contrast values of the scene, and similar factors. But I would never have predicted that result. Maybe some of those Missing-411 folks have a natural explanation. NOPE! I believe something unseemly has been going on for a long time. I believe the missing are targeted--otherwise how do you explain the persons with similar names disappearing within short intervals of time.
Every one of you sounds like the kind of person that doesn't even know how to find cardinal directions. You could have a compass and a map and still get lost. That's a YOU problem.
I and a friend both got lost in a mountain range in Colorado when we were in high school. Missing for about 40 hours. Search and rescue was called, bloodhounds, parents fired rounds into the sky to guide us, the whole works, but they never even got close to us. At some point I drew a map in the dirt and tried to guide us back this way, and we found the camp. Search and rescue had us pretend to be lost soon the dogs could find us for a wholesome ending, and the dogs wandered around for like 15 minutes less than 100ft from us. I don't want to say that there isn't something supernatural going on, but I can say from experience that either we had the most incompetent S+R guys and dogs or tracking is a lot less effective than in movies I've seen.
dog tracking is a LOT less effective,than folks are led to believe.Some sar groups refuse to use them as introduces a false sense of security .They are much like lie detector tests..
Maybe it's something supernatural making Search & Rescue incompetent. Like faeries playing tricks.Not saying. I believe in faeries. Just a thought I had.
wait, the dogs wandered around 15 minute less then a hundred feet from you? did you actually yell for them, you obviously seen them with their handlers, the dogs and their handlers would of easily heard you.
I was at a bar in the town I grew up in with friends (wasn't drinking) and decided to go for a night walk. I got turned around and spent 5 hours lost in the woods in sub freezing weather, I even fell in a creek a couple times. I was so frozen at one point I sat up against a tree and decided to just give up and die. Anyway, eventually around 4am after being soaked and lost for 5 hours I stumbled onto a trail and found my way to a main road. As it turns out I was less than a quarter mile from where I had started just walked around in circles through a bunch of strip-mine ponds. I also had a fully charged cell phone with me with service the entire time. I guess my point is you never know exactly how your brain will react and function until your in the situation. I can only remember a few key moments from the experience and I should have died. I didn't tell anyone where I was going or what I was doing, and for sure had I died There would be a shitload of unanswered questions that would seem hard to explain.
@@redrustyhill2 I hate it when someone shares their story and someone else uses it as a opportunity to put them down. Its cowardly and uncalled for. He was sharing some first hand knowledge of how things can go wrong. It may be very useful ,someday , to someone.
I 100% think the park service is aware that something weird is out there, but only in the way that anyone who has spent a lot of time in the wilderness or in very rural areas knows that something weird is out there
They're all bring paid extra cash tax free to act dumb. Park rangers are not smart. If my 12 year old son went missing if call my game warden. No cops. Just our game warden and all my hunting friends in my county. Oh and I'd ask David Paillides to come help. He would be on the next flight to Texas.
That's what I really was meaning to say LOL but I was so annoyed by that Lord dude that made this video LOL just hearing his voice was worse than Nails on a chalkboard! So that's why my comment was kind of harsh no offense against park rangers they know something is up but they're just trying to make a living and take care of them and their family that's all
I have a friend who's a park ranger in Yellowstone. He says there's an unspoken rule about what's in there. They never talk about what's out there, they never discuss weird incidents. They all have to ignore it, and if you do bring it up, the other ranger will act like they dont know what you're talking about, and you will be reported for it and fired. He refused to say anymore to me. I think whatever is out there, he's scared to even talk about it, cause I told him, it's just a job, you can find another one, but he just had this concerned look in his eyes. He wouldn't discuss it further. Idk if it is a government thing, it probably is? But there is still that mystery of the supernatural.
people forget that there were communities who were kicked out to create national parks- it's not hard to believe that they never left. in shenandoah national park specifically you can see the ruins of homes and churches just off the trail, remnants of the over 2000 people forced to relocate. more westward, thousands of native americans were prohibited from living or hunting on park property. 26 different tribes lived on what became yellowstone national park. a smaller national park, prince william, was once a thriving community of free black folks with a self-sustaining economy so strong they went unaffected by the great depression. however, since they traded amongst themselves and didn't make money, they were categorized as poor and were removed with two week's notice to form the park. human evils often go forgotten, whether it be the cause of a missing person or the creation of "america's best idea."
@@TheLoreLodge I think the commenter is implying that there could be descendants of those displaced people's living out in the woods - a potential source of "true wildmen".
People also forget Whites have been in North America for more than 20k years. "Native" is just anti white trash like mush of the rest of the crap you said.
411 used to be the phone number for "Information" in the dark ages before the Internet. You could call it to find restaurants and stuff. Missing 411 = Missing Information
The automated system would give the weather and you could also select various items like one of my favorites Option #3 School Lunch Menu for the Week" 🤞 come-onnnnn Pizza Friday😅
I must say...until you are a regular hiker, hunter, or just one who romps in the woods...one truly wouldn't understand the odd and eery feeling that can occur from time to time. The feeling that you just cannot put your finger on, but you just know you're not alone. I hike solo all the time and it's the unknown, not crazy humans, that I worry about most. When you experience it, then opinions change...
That's because there covered up. They no exactly what's going on ain't that don't want anything snooping and stumble upon the truth. There obviously something going on . They know how many toilet paper rolls are in the porta potties yet they don't keep records of missing people.. Gtfoh with that.
I was once setting camp in an old, unused campground in Colorado. I got set up and I heard a gruff voice in my head. It said, "Go away! You are not wanted here." I left. Very freaky.
Something similar happened to me. I was standing in front of a Church taking photographs & I heard a voice to my right say 'What's he doing?' & a different voice to my left replied 'He's taking photographs'. There was no one near me. I'm a sceptic, but that was creepy.
@@nordikkai7185it’s 110% NOT their own subconscious 😂😂😂😂😂 life is full of unexplained things and there are absolutely without a doubt creatures/entities/aliens/paranormal/government experiments and more out in the woods / national forests/ just everywhere .
@@speedy692it might just be because I'm alone in my house at night, but this comment scared me to an unreasonable degree. hearing voices really gets me for some reason
I was almost abducted when I was very young. It was in Kmart in the early 90's. When people noticed they harangued the guy and tried to keep him there but he ran outside and got away. I do remember being in a state of shock when he grabbed my tightly on the shoulder, walking me toward the door in such a calm manner, no words, that anyone batting an eye might think he was just "grandpa" or some uncle walkin with his kid or nephew. So the idea that a kid would scream when abducted isn't necessarily what would happen all the time. I should note that this all went down pretty fast and because I wandered off just an isle or two, just being squirrelly and bored 6 year old.
@@MrCrunch808Yeah, I think that is probably what happened. He talked about the priest abuse scandal as a way of showing why the boy at the Catholic camp went missing, but there have also been a lot of similar cases in the Boy Scouts.
So, I used to work at a boy scout camp. that statement of "scouts make a lot of noise" is an understatement. We had this lake, and you could hear people across the lake, cause they were that loud. The Staff tents had a few of the camper tents near us, and we used to complain kinda often about them not shutting up. Its honestly crazy how someone can disappear in such a small distance, without a trace.
Whoa you just made me think of something . I lived in this haunted old farm . Sometimes , a lot of times on Saturday nights , I would come out of my garage and stand in my driveway and smoke . It was always late , I would hear like a party goin on and it sounded like it was down at my pond . I’d get all excited and march down there in the dark and I’d find myself standing by the pond . Alone . Nobody’s down there . Now the party sounds like it’s down in the woods . That’s usually when my hair stood up and I’d be like , wtf I just did it again .
Were the adults that chaperoned Garret Bardsley's boy scout group ever investigated or considered possibly involved in his disappearance? Someone he'd have felt comfortable walking with
I’ve spent almost my entire 30 year life hunting and exploring the PNW and every major forest surrounding it. No matter how armed to teeth I am and how prepared I am. Covering my scent, moving silently, under cover of rainfall, supported by hunting teams…… there is always moments I can feel something in the forest is bigger and badder than me. That feeling isn’t just paranoia, it feels more like the foreboding of an ambush. Wether it is humans or something else, I don’t know, but there are forces out there that can make you disappear very easily unless you are absolutely dialed in with heavy firepower….. be careful out there folks.
Salsa, I hate to tell ya but I guess the reason we get that "someone's watching me" feeling is because we actually saw the thing watching us, but didn't consciously pick it up, and so our alarm goes off. Like you might go out to dinner, and of course as any person does you naturally look around you. Not paying hard attention to anything but just looking around. And what you don't consciously know is that your eyes scanned over someone staring at you. Maybe they're in a booth with a bunch of people and since you aren't hardcore paying attention to every stranger in the restaurant, you didn't consciously notice it, but your eyes did absorb that info. Now you're going to have that feeling that someone's watching you. So next time you're out there, and you feel that, take it seriously. Cuz you could have scanned over a bear hidden behind vegetation, or a man partially tucked behind a tree or something. Of course our mind can get to us in places that give us eerie vibes, but it is a fact that the "I'm being watched" feeling happens because we saw something or someone watching us and didn't consciously notice it.
@@godwarrior3403 yup. That's about right. I think it's likely probable that other dangers and signs of what would let people know that something dangerous is around would activate the same intuitions from the eyes not directly acknowledged via sight.
@@godwarrior3403idk about that. I use to be a firm skeptic in the whole "I feel someone watching me" and for the most part I think folks are full of shit. But I was hunting in the rural mountains of Virgina once and I was use to woods. Never really nervous except at dark simply because my vision range is low. One morning around 730am I could not shake a odd feeling of danger. Like I made a mistake and couldn't figure out what it was. About 3min into the feeling I noticed motion in a tree across from me. But then nothing for 5mins. So I stoped starting. Feeling still there. About 7min after that I notice notion in front of me in line with the tree from earlier......a fucking bobcat......the size of a damn full grown sheep dog. In full stalk mode working it's way to me. I WAS IN FULL CAMMO aside from my face. So I went to turn my gun and it took the fuck off. Guess I was bigger than I thought. But that thing was watching me from the tree, and came down to get closer and only then did I notice movement. But then lost it for a good 5 mins.
You guys do a great job of really explaining how some of these cases might have happened instead of leaving things out of the narrative to make them spicyer. Well done as always!
17:30 On a similar note to a missing person being found in an area that had been searched, there's a case of a girl who went missing on Mt. Davis, the highest point in PA, back in 1830. She locally became known as the wild child. She left her families home to gather their cows and didn't come back. The family searched and searched for her but didn't find her until quite a while later. Like, so much later that she had become feral. Once she had been assimilated back into her normal life, she explained how the search party had actually been really close to them multiple times, but when she heard them coming she would intentionally hide from them in the bushes and rock formations.
On the case of Bobby, i think the priest had help covering it up and hiding his body. If they can have someone accept a child's skull and stay quiet who else knows what else they did ??? One argument against Kenny being Missing 411'd was he didn't take his camera on the last trip so he wouldn't be able to photo the cave. I do believe him about the cave encounter though
And why go out looking for M cave to prove to everyone he HAD seen it, but.. without any option to document said cave..? Idk maybe he could do it on his phone but thats really really weird detail..
@@Mr.NopeNope yeah that's the one thing that gets me, I think he would've took his camera at least. The desert is really big and it would be so hard to find anyone, esp if scavengers had scattered the remains
Kenny had a smartphone, he could have just used that for photos/videos. If he had a smartphone, I’d imagine him taking just that to have less stuff weighing him down while looking for the cage, take some preliminary photos/videos with the phone once he found it, and come back with a proper camera once he is sure of the exact location of the cave.
@@Red-jt6uu except the phone was found at mine shaft. That's way before the mystery cave. I think his remains are in the collapsed mine shaft. Or he wanted everyone to think that's where his body disappeared. Why drop the phone? Why not bring the camera? It is possible that he walked away from his life, to start a new one. Being called a lier, even if was a lie. Sometimes people box themselves in with a lie. And will do anything to protect the lie. Instead of admitting it. We are a strange species.
I’ve only experienced something truly weird only once, and it could very well have been a predator eyeing me down, but i felt something watching me on a walk one night, i could not see anything but i felt such overwhelming dread i rushed back home as soon as possible and never entered or went near the woods again. The fear i felt was primal, and rushed through every fabric of my being within seconds. I have been terrified of the woods ever since, I don’t trust anything that can put that much fear inside me when I can’t even see what is doing it. Gorgeous landscapes though, but they put the fear of god in me lol.
Yes ,I have felt that fear too.Fishing in Montana along wooded River almost dark. The fish were biting big time, but sudden fear gripped me as I scanned for mountain lion. But saw nothing. I got the fk outta there. Never forgot.
This guy clearly puts a lot of time and effort into his research and then presents it with a lot of intelligent interpretation. I really enjoy his presentations.
He picks on himself, too, like with word pronunciations, etc. It's refreshing from so much of the arrogance that runs rampant on the internet--videos and comments alike. Humility goes a long way.
Benzos don’t just treat anxiety & depression symptoms with alcohol withdrawal. Alcohol withdrawal can kill you and the withdrawal symptoms-depending on your addiction level-are beyond crippling. So if he was in active withdrawal because he started drinking again and then ran out of alcohol along the way, that’s beyond awful. Plus Benzos by themselves can make you lose your balance easily, and even worse, affect your ability to think in so many ways. They affect your judgment & your memory. You literally don’t form memories-so you’re not actually forgetting things, you’re not “writing the memories down in your brain” in the first place. Benzos also increase the effects of alcohol exponentially. So put all that together and you would have someone who was seriously impaired as far as judgment, memory -where he was, where he needed to go, etc-physical balance, alertness and so many other things you need to make it out of that situation alive.
Benzo withdrawal is the worst. Worse than opiate withdrawal. It can last for months too. It can take a very, very long time till you're okay. I've gone through Xanax withdrawal a couple of times. You shake like a m*f*cker and you feel like you're gonna die, and the anxiety makes you wish you were dead. And it takes so long it's almost impossible to go through it. Reality feels totally f*cked up too, total depersonalisation syndrom during benzo withdrawal. The only thing worse may be methadone withdrawal just because it takes even longer. It can take half a year before you begin to feel okay.
@@mattiassvanberg8292 Absolutely. Although all drug withdrawal is AWFUL, no matter what your drug of choice is, which is why it should never be done without medical assistance. You should never stop any drug cold turkey, and don’t be ashamed if you were using them “illegally,” you can still get help. Go to your local ER or addiction center. But alcohol withdrawal protocols almost always use benzos for that detox period. Of course the last thing you should be doing is going into the wilderness, especially alone, while detoxing. Addiction is primary progressive and terminal. It should be the first thing you focus on treating and get help to get clean in a professional setting with people who treat you like a human being, not a criminal, and are compassionate about helping you get through. Once you’re clean, hell yeah, head into the beautiful wilderness. Just don’t go alone & don’t separate from your group!! As we’ve learned.
Benzos suck so fckn bad, and the withdrawals are worse. I got hooked on them by accident once via prescription, it was miserable detoxing but i wasnt ever going to let that happen to myself with them again so i never got the script refilled. My anxiety is far easier to deal with than a week long withdrawal that can kill you without proper care
@@chrism4008 Which kind were you on? Valium (Diazepam) or Clonazepam have such a long half-life. It takes a month or more to start feeling better. Xanax (Alprazolam) isn't as long, but much more intense. I never ever want to go through that shit again.
I remember Bobby Bizup's case from the original missing 411 documentary and thought that maybe he was being abused by adults at the camp but I didn't know it was more or less confirmed. 😔 So awful, poor kid.
RE: the part about finding children in places that have already been searched. When I was really really small (and I mean small enough to fit my entire body under a kitchen chair with reasonable comfort) we went on a trip to see my maternal grandparents who lived far away. I woke up early on the day we were supposed to go home and did not want to leave, so being a little kid without good cognitive reasoning skills I thought "well if I hide long enough I won't have to leave and they will just get tierd of searching for me and go without me" (I understand how dumb that was now and I feel bad I scared my parents, but kids don't think things through very well at that age). My grandma had an extra kitchen chair that wasn't pulled up to the table that my grandpa would throw his coats onto when he came in the door. I maneuvered one of the coats to cover most of the front legs of the chair like a curtain and crawled under the chair. When I say I must have sat there for 3 or 4 hours while they searched for me, I mean they literally walked within 6 inches of me multiple times and never saw me even tho I'm pretty sure my feet and legs should have been visible bc toddlers arent great at manuvering coats into a proper chair tent. I finally came out bc as a kid I was having a hard time being still that long and I was upset bc my mom was getting upset (as a kid i had had no concept of how upseting that would be to my parents when i initially hid). But it taught me something about the ability to hide things in plain sight. And because I was that small I was able to wedge myself Into a space they wouldn't have even thought to look.
I grew up in the area of Minnesota where Brandon went missing and his farther was actually my 8th grade Ag and shop teacher. After graduating in my first year of college. My best friends new born child was involved in an accident in the same area around Marshal. Long story short the car that t-boned the vehicle with his child was driven by a woman who was texting and driving who blew a stop sign. The cops left any incriminating information out of their reports and defended the woman being in the wrong. She was married to one of the biggest farm owners in the area who had the police in their pocket. So I wouldn’t doubt that Brandon was killed by a farmer and covered by a rich farmer paying the cops to look the other way.
Well they wouldn't really be looking for incriminating evidence in a car accident. MN is a no fault state, meaning that no legal action would be taken (by the state) against that woman
@@p1nkishninjano fault means you can’t sue somebody personally for damages resulting from a crash. It doesn’t mean that there is “nobody at fault” and doesn’t mean there can’t be criminal charges for reckless/impaired/distracted driving that results in a crash. In fact, you need to have a police report that states the circumstances of an accident so the insurance companies can decide who’s policy is getting used for the vehicle repairs. Source: I live here and have been hit by someone that resulted in insurance repairs
On the Kenny case. It’s VERY hard to find someone out in the Nevada desert, the sagebrush gets just as big as a person and that’s not even considering all the animals that could drag him.
Plus mine shafts everywhere. I have hiked and camped near Area 51 (not too near of course) and you nailed the conditions. Veach could have been right beside searchers and they would never know. The desert is not Disneyland. It is death to those who commit one mistake.
I just discovered this channel and love it! Your factual approach with a healthy dose of skepticism, while continuing to have an open mind is refreshing. I love that you lack the smugness, arrogance and "know it all, smartest person in the room approach" that most of the skeptics seem to possess.
Never attribute to the supernatural what can more readily, practically, and reasonably be applied to human failings. An open mind is a fine thing, but not when you expand that to include nonsense. It's not about being smug or whatever, but the human brain is just wired to love a good story more than a boring and unpleasant truth.
@@Blisterdude123 human failings are at the root of most occurrences. But to believe it covers 100% of the mysteries would be a human failing in itself. It's an interesting world and we do not have all the answers; at least not yet.
The Missing Enigma, that Aiden also mentioned towards the end, is also a great channel. He is a mixture of detail-oriented Lore Lodge and drawings from Bedtime Stories, it’s great.
Having participated in search and rescues in the desert, it is really not odd to lose a person out there. Depending on the region, there can be mineshafts, but deserts can also be deceptive in how flat they are. There is still scrub brush, rocks, and odd land features that can hide a body (on one such search, multiple teams walked around and by a body in question because of where he was hidden, up under a large boulder. It wasn't until the body started to smell that he was located). In addition, desert scavengers are both ravenous and skittish; they will eat all parts of a body, and take portions with them to safer places to eat. It is entirely conceivable for a deceased person in the desert to simply disappear, and it happens a lot.
Yes, the person maybe. But to not find clothes or anything they had on them. Like in one instance a kid disappeared with a fishing rod and other things and nothing was ever located. And he was only about 60 yards from either his father or the camp site with lots of people at it.
People easily lose track of time. In all the Missing 411, where people claim they had just seen the person a second ago is probably not how things actually went down. They most likely stopped paying attention to the individual who disappeared for multiple minutes.
I sometimes accidentally take breaks froom Lore content, and coming back is like taking a nice sip of coffee on a cold morning. Thanks for the content you guys!
I really like how this channel has come along. The earliest videos were at times too conspiratorial for me. I think people really underestimate how easy it is to get lost or miss something, and how people can make bad decisions and then build on those bad choices in stressful situations. I'm open to the idea that some of the cases are weird but I like how there's a lot more consideration given to the mundane explanations instead of jumping to the extraordinary.
I agree. I am a firm believer that we don't rise to the occasion, we fall to our level of training knowledge. Most of us like to think we'd be great in a situation, and unfortunately most aren't.
I don’t know about Big Foot but there are DEFINITELY Wildmen living in the deep remote wilderness of Appalachia especially in and around the Cades Cove area. That’s why when visiting Cades Cove you need to have a formal written piece of documentation stating that you are going to be visiting Cades Cove for this X-amount of time. The National Park requires a type of waiting list/ registration for all those who are going to be venturing into Cades Cove. Historical speaking, there have been so many strange and bizarre disappearances in that area along with first hand accounts of the Wildmen of Appalachia. Furthermore, all of the true locals who live near, in, and around that area will tell you that there is a long history of Wildmen abducting/ killing naive people who come visiting the Cades Cove area.
Wildmen-aka-sasquatch. Some you people have such strong cognitive dissonance you would come up with some wild mental gymnastics even if an entire clan of sasquatch was camped out in your front yard. You woud claim it was just a dream, or that it was just mutated bears.
Remember, that all accounts of a person being taken by a cougar, where there was another person. They almost all describe it being a silent disappearance. Only difference is either the person coincidentally ahead looks back to see the attack, or the cat didn’t drag the victim off the trail, so when the person turned around they saw what happened. Also, these type of silent attacks are reported by survivors. So many of these cases sound just like this.
I'm not understanding why the victim is silent in this scenario. If a person is being killed by an animal you'd think they would scream or yell for help or fire a weapon.
Yeah but again, that's assuming the kid hadn't dropped the fishing pole for whatever reason or it got tangled up on him. There'd have to be fishing line caught in the brush or something to track nearby. The fishing pole really has me hung up on that one. It's not really something that blends into nature.
@@johnthemachine Big cats either latch onto the throat and strangle prey, cutting off airflow so no noise can be made Or they go for the back of the neck and sever the spinal cord. And since we humans are pretty small and squishy, its super quick!
I am russian. Me and my friends have had that shitty habit to meet and drink alcohol every friday since we were teens. But unforunately, for some reason, frequently I lose control over myself when drink and have got myself into various bad situations many times. A few years ago in late june as usual on a friday we met. After the 'party' was over I went to a bus stop and took my bus. It was about 9:30 pm and it was already dark outside. So I was this time again so wasted, I started to kinda hallucinate. Then instead of leaving the bus at my stop, I kept riding till the end of the route to the outskirts of the town. I left the bus and had this vivid thought in my head, that somewhere out there in the dark, there are 'my friends' cooking meat, having fun and most importantly the are waiting for me. I started prowling in the dark in the woods looking for my friends and thank god quite soon my intoxication diminished enough, it snapped in my head like 'WTF? WTF I AM DOING HERE' At that time I realised I should go back home. But I was still far from sober. So I went to an approximate direction of the town. There were trees and bushes around and darkness, I was scared. At some point I stumbled upon a swampy piece of terrain with high reeds all over and far in the distance above a hill there were town's lights. So I went right across the swampy water, tripped over in the mud, thinking I was going to drown and clutched at the reeds and screamed. At about 2 am, covered from toes to head with mud, I got home. Thank god nothing paranormal happened to my there in the darkness.
Regarding Garrett, isn't there another possibility? He could have been lured away by someone he knew. That would explain how he disappeared so close to camp and why there were no sounds of distress. Also, was there anyone else with his father who can back up his version of events?
My thoughts exactly! if there were no witnesses who could verify his dads version of the story, it opens up a lot of dark possibilities. My other thought (in another comment on this video) is that Church + Boy Scout adult members/leaders have a certain reputation for a reason. His silent and complete disappearance is easily explained if one or two adults who he was there with were responsible for it regardless of whether his dad was involved or not. I would hope that he and the other adults were thoroughly investigated, but I have my doubts…
Exactly. My interest is with the fishing pole. There was absolutely no reason to take it back to camp if the rest of the fishing equipment was already set up and in use where his father was fishing, and Garrett said he wanted to catch a fish for breakfast so why remove the rod? Why did his father not tell him to leave the rod where it was? And why was it not there at the fishing place even if Garrett went missing alone? Perhaps it got broken into a couple of pieces. But how could a broken fishing rod be explained away? It can't, so where to hide it if there's search dogs on land? In the lake bed with rocks on top to stop it floating.
In the third case with Chris, one thing that struck me as odd is how the co-workers claimed they were all walking 50 yards apart--for no reason for the job apparently. If you think about that it's weird. Why wouldn't they be walking together, talking, etc as co-workers usually would do. I think it's more likely the other 3 were walking together and Chris maybe didn't get along with the others. To me suspicion lays with the co-workers, IMHO.
I think co-workers, as a stupid joke slipped him some mind tripping drug. And he flipped out, not knowing what was happening. Hallucinations that terrified him, would have sent him running. Hence the torn fabric on fence, one boot off. Even if co-workers went after him, that would of only panicked him more. The fight or flight adrenaline rush would of made him a marathon runner. What adds to my thinking it was them is what is said about their version of what happened. And the weird 1st choice call. I think they were hoping he would come back once the effect wore off.
Ironically, it is the assumptions made about the co-workers that make it a "Missing 411" case. The 411 part stands for information. Dialing 411, similar to dialing 911, is a call that can be made for information - for example if excavating, you can often call 411 to identify if and where underground pipes or electrical lines are so your excavator does not come into contact with those lines. So "Missing 411" stands for "Missing Information" in a more "catchy-type" of title. If the co-workers were involved, the information to prove it is still "missing" and has yet to be identified.
But what are the odds that none of the 3 have come clean? These are just coworkers after all. We can't assume they're childhood friends. There's no way 3 guys decide to kill a coworker and place a boot and change around the barbwire fence
@@AngelMGordon Here's the thing, in a surveying job, there could have been a reason they were walking 50 yards apart. I do not know what exactly they were surveying, but that could have been the companies protocol for how they 'survey'. Even then, if they state they were all walking 50 yards apart...considering where they were, they would have noticed something happening to him from that distance. If he had a panic attack, ran-off, stripped, they would have most likely seen it and definitely have heard it (panic attacks, especially extreme ones where someone strips and runs away wont typically be quiet). There was either the extremely slim chance that they were completely out of sight and visual range of Chris (not likely at just 50 yards) at the exact moment he went into a fugue state, where Chris remained seemingly silent and out of visual range of everyone that would have had the potential to see him if he had ran into the street or into a developed area. Or much much more likely, there were a few psychos working that job, thought Chris wasn't a person who would be missed or looked for, conspired with each other to take him out and then ????. The only reason I could see them wanting to kill would be to take his tools. Tools can be expensive, they're some of the most stolen items in stores and off of persons. But remember that his tools were found, seemingly placed somewhere by him. Then there is also the boots and piece of cloth. Perhaps they thought they could outsmart police by setting some of his cloths/boots in areas that could throw off an investigation (such as a ripped cloth on a barbed wire fence)...then they stashed the tools for later pickup, realized that this had gotten out of hand and called the police, lied, saying they had searched for him. But that is such an insane and outlandish plot to simply steal tools off of some kid that I dont even think the most methed-up'd southern land surveyor would agree to it.
Me and my buddy were in northeast Georgia, way back in there, near the AT, and we had an... experience. We had a German Shepard with us that became extremely frightened, and the woods were silent. We both felt like we were being watched, but being from that area, we were both heavily armed, he with an auto 12 and me with an AR. Eventually, whatever it was moved on. That was 15 years ago, and I haven't been back in the Chattahoochee National Forest
As far as the intelligence question, I believe it's people who are intellectually impaired and people who are intellectually above average in advance going missing so much because they are both prone to think they can handle things that they cannot, for instance going on an adventure they're not prepared for and impaired person won't think of the danger whereas an overly intelligent person may think they can survive anything because of their intellect. Both tend to get bored mentally for different reasons of course but with similar results, and it results in death by misadventure.
One of the saddest things about Garrets case is that as a kid, raised Mormon, I heard that tale what must have been a dozen times in church talks and it was always used as some kind of metaphor so I thought it was a parable, not a real story. The case itself is bizarre knowing it's true
One of the reasons people may be found dead in an area already searched could be "terminal burrowing", or "hide-and-die syndrome" which occurs in the final stages of hypothermia. Those affected will enter small, enclosed spaces to die. It is often associated with paradoxical undressing. After death the body may be dragged out by scavaging animals or flushed out by melting snow or rain. This tendency to hide away may also explain why people fail to use mobile phones . Another sympton of hypothermia is a surge in adrenaline which cause people to move off, often running, in random directions. This may explain why people are found in illogical locations at some distance from their last known location.
@@aaronl5072I haven’t read one book but I know if you do some half ass research on him you’ll learn that he’s a liar. He tries to fit every disappearance into his “profile” and leaves out very important points and information. He also implies that it’s supernatural or Bigfoot while saying he doesn’t speculate. There have been multiple people who have tore apart his cases and found a lot of discrepancies and bs. I loved him at first, but after digging I don’t trust him at all. He’s trying to sell books and he has his whole community buffaloed. He was accused of fraud and he’s a liar. He was never a “detective”, he was a traffic cop and he was punished for selling fraudulent autographs. He edits his stories to make them seem weird or connected and exploits missing people for his own gain while acting like he’s a hero for bringing this bogus information to light. He’s a fraud and the lowest form of human for doing it.
I think there are too many anomalies in the cases he screens for to say that they are standard missing people with a percentage of certainty like you’re proposing. Most missing persons cases are just that but the ones he is choosing have unexplainable details.
Garrett went missing in about the length of my dads' drive way, So This would be like going missing while walking to get the mail but there was a block party happening and no one saw me reach the mail box. That is shockingly small space to vanish!
paulides wonders why the dogs cant find the victims then goes on to describe how 5 foot of snow fell inbetween them going missing and the search party showing up in a massive blizzard
Kenny Veech is filming himself and everywhere he goes....then he finds a gem of a cave with weird properties but forget to take even a picture...that is not making any sense. He had debts and about to be evicted...he made himself disappear.
After seeing his girlfriends interview, I think the same, he knew he wasnt coming back home. And I believe his M-cave story too, I wish he wouldve had the strength to check it out before punching out.
I think Kenny "died suddenly" before it was cool...unfortunately it was at his own hand! He was trying to get on Shark Tank because he was running out of money and, I'm guessing, couldn't handle the thought of working another soul crushing, meaningless job, just to be able to live on this Earth!! I COMPLETELY understand!! He seemed like a great human that just wanted to be free...I don't blame him, for I too, don't fit into this society!! I've just been fortunate enough to have family to fall back on when I end up in a soul crushing, mechanical job, and I lose my mind after 3 months and bail...If you've made it this far, I have a feeling I know where his remains can be found!! If you watch his last video, he gets to a certain location and stops to really showcase the area...as if saying, look at this, look at this, and then points his camera towards what looks like a little cave on the left side of his path of travel that day, and says, not going up there...He then walks a little further down, points his camera up this draw, I guess you'd call it, on the right side, and says something to the effect of, this is the kind of place that I find MY skulls! Not, skulls, or animal skulls, or ram skulls, but MY skulls...I think he was telling us where he planned on doing himself in... I'm in Wisconsin or else I'd go check myself...
I think alot of people dont want to believe that there is anything we cant understand/control or dont want to believe in a higher power at work of some kind. There are people out there who will fight tooth and nail to deny things directly in their faces, let alone anything "supernatural". Fear of the unknown has a very strong influence on some people and the powers that be.
I've experienced some strange shit out in the woods and I'm not a ghost guy or a conspiracy theorist but I have seen stuff I've never told a soul about because I didn't want to sound crazy
You should DEFINITELY WRITE IN TO ONE OF THESE CHANELS THAT COVER THOSE STORIES. Steve stockton does the missing people mysteries and you can email him anonymously. It helps to talk about it. Also there’s no one from his channel who would ever doubt it! I have lots and lots of experiences myself. My son has just a couple he never told me about and it fucked him up real bad. He cried and whole like I’ve never ever ever seen ever when finally opening up to me about it (he was 18 when telling me but the 3 experiences he had were when he was 10-12.) not saying you’re young or it happened at that age, just that he is adamantly and fully against ghosts and conspiracies and paranormal. There’s simply nothing someone can say paranormal or unexplainable that I don’t believe due to my own absolutely unbelievable experiences.
Regarding Kenny - why has no one observed that heat stroke is a thing - that can cause brain damage, regardless of your skills. The *average* low temp at night during Dec-Feb. is 20.7° F - idk what part of year he went missing, but hypothermia is absolutely possible in the desert. IJS Following his “planned” route & not finding him could simply mean he strayed way tf off from that path once he got out there. Garrett: They didn’t hear him make a sound b/c he didn’t. I’d bet my next paycheck It was someone he knew or someone who put on a scouting uniform or something for the express purpose of preying on the scouts (who notoriously take troops to the same locations year after year), lured him off the path (he started down the wrong one; maybe b/c he saw someone/thing) or simply knocked him on the head and made off with him before the alarm was raised. *Anywhere* children are gathered (especially where they may be briefly unattended) is a place that is going to draw predators.
I've attempted that route on Rainier twice in July, and both were disastrous. It's not uncommon for climbers to take on that route, typically it's specifically for those conditions in the context of taking on more challenging climbs on other mountains in the future. If you end up on that route and are not a competent climber, you'll experience some problems. It's a very challenging environment. I've dug in and slept 7 nights on that face. 1st , we got hit with an ice storm, and it lasted 4 days. The next go around, my partner badly sprained his ankle, and between the unfavorable weather and the injury, we slept over 3 nights before decending safely. Ranier is deceptive too. All the tourist stuff gives the false impression of safety on the mountain. Granted, not the most dangerous mountain, but it's not hard for one to lose their life up there if they're complacent.
One thing I will say about bad weather during the search. If someone or something was deliberately predating on these people, the best time to do it is shortly before bad weather reducing the chances of law enforcement. I say something because animals are quite intelligent they may not be considering law enforcement but if they know bad weather is coming which many animals seem to, it’s possible they may be panic buying like people do, stocking up on food just in case. Potentially knowing prey will be scarce during and after bad weather so take what you can while you can.
@@brendawaggoner7555 makes logical sense but it’s whether you could prove animals tend to hunt erratically before storms. You probably could easily observe that behaviour if it is the case. Follow multiple predators from multiple species in multiple storm prone areas, follow and observe over a year or two and keep an eye on long range weather reports and predictions.
I've crunched a lot of numbers on the disappearances, which is frustratingly hard due to bad reporting/record keeping. But from the available information, it seems like wildland disappearances occur only marginally around bad weather, but are found significantly less frequently when they do before or during it. Which would make total sense without accounting for external causes. As for disappearances, the bad weather is a hazard in itself, both for navigation and physically. As for searches, bad weather obviously tends to complicate search, render some useful tools unavailable and destroy evidence.
One of David’s profile points is “of German ancestry”, which cracks me up every time because German is the one of the top ancestral countries of origin in the US.
The reason no one was worried about a stranger being at the boy scout camp is because he wasn't a stranger to them. I have an extremely strong suspicion it was one of the scout leaders, which is why he didn't scream. Yes, the Mormons are protective of their communities, but they're also really good at keeping anything that might look bad for them hidden. There's an entire proven cover up and denial of decades long SA in the organization that has been proven in the courts. He was the unfortunate in a long list of victims of a predator hiding in plain sight. The BSA in Utah and Idaho are strongly tied together and it's run by the high ranking members of both organizations. Don't believe anything they say, or don't say AT. ALL.
I feel that Davis took all the stories he collected and just distilled them down to the truly weird ones, it would make one hell of a book. Instead it's a lot of fodder with gold nuggets randomly and sporadically dispersed.
DP basically looked for cases where the success rate was low, or nonexistent, in regards to the performance of scent dogs, and SAR teams, and then claimed it was 'weird'. The guy, DP, honestly wants his viewers to think that dogs and SAR are suppose to be a hundred percent effective or someting is amiss. Pertty much all of his 'profile points' are BS.
@@deerichardz typical response from someone who hasn't looked into any of his work. Literally you sound stupid with your comment. Had he not found all these cases there would be no channels on TH-cam dealing with them apart from fake creepy pastas. Why don't you go find some of those since facts are too much for you
@@deerichardz funny how Dave has even interviewed different SAR people and they have said the same exact thing. Dogs find people, and when they can't pick up a scent then there wasn't any to start with. Hahahahaha 🤣🤣. I feel bad for anybody lost with you looking for em
@@hughjunit2503 The last time DP attended a SAR conference, NASAR of 2012, he was basically laughed out of the hall. He hasn't been at an SAR event since.
I think the kraken is a good example of what our ancestors would have thought to be supernatural that today we understand could have just been a giant squid and it is entirely possible for such "monsters" to exist in the ocean.
Kudos to you for taking your research so seriously and trying to find out the real truth ! A lot of youtubers simply repeat what they have heard elsewhere, or even invent or embellish stories to get more attention. As a former journalist, I hate this, and I also resent it when people don't give their sources and don't give credit to other creators, but simply steal their content.
About the weird Wikipedia criticism of primary sources in the beginning, it's especially odd because Primary sources aren't solely a scientific term, it's taught in year middleschool in Europe at least, usually in connection to source criticism. It's basic knowledge about how to judge sources?? The ACTUAL issue is that the Pilates guy is over valuing WITNESS TESTIMONY, which is famously unreliable.
It should be common practice for camping/ hiking groups to EACH carry a laser pointer in their pack for emergencies & ONLY emergencies! The kind strong enough to leave a thick beam across the night sky (cheap as $20). Like a giant light saber across the black sky.
I think many of these cases have explanations I can think of. I think people who don't spend a lot of time out in nature see things as weird, where there just isn't anything. The Rainer hike, could have unclipped to go to the bathroom (Don't know why he'd do it, but possible and then fell into a ice crevasse, of which there are many up there. ) The AT hiker I found very strange. There is no where along the AT where you would need to carry 12 days of food. The longest stretch is the 100 mile wilderness, the first day of which is a bit tough, but the rest of it isn't that hard, so maybe 6, 7 days if you're slow. Most of the trail it's about 3-4 days between towns. Also, if you went off the trail you would hit a road all along the AT within a day, maybe 2 at most. There are places along the PCT and CDT that you could definitely find yourself out in the middle of no where, but not on the AT. Actually with very little effort I found she actually hid from rescuers, which makes much more sense. Being over looked after people searched an area is not at all unusual. A few feet away at a wrong angle and you can walk right past something or someone on the ground.(I have hiked about 6000 miles of forest and mountains. I will say in the desert I would definitely say he would have likely had to gone into a cave. (I've hiked 3000 miles of desert). People step off the trail to go to the bathroom, and get lost. It's not unusual. And as much as people tend to think of nature as some loving mother figure the reality is she will try to kill you every day. My friends and I always say Mother nature is Metal as fuck. Grizzlys can be quiet by the way, even trained it's possible for one to sneak up on you. Let's say you were listening to the sounds of lapping water from a lake and a little wind. I have seen so many bears that I've lost count, and I once had a black bear appear about 15 feet from me before I noticed him. And he noticed me actually. haha we both scared each other that day. He ran off which is normal for a black bear, startling a grizzly is something no one wants to do, they are deadly fast and can be aggressive if startled. People seriously have no idea how fast bear are. Were there strange instances here, sure. Do I think there is anything weird going on in our National Forests, no. BTW, I have hiked through Crater Lake, and it would be possible to hike that far in snow with regular shoes, but it would definitely be a strange thing to do. In my 10k miles of hiking i will say the strangest experience that ever happened to me was around Crater Lake, no idea what it is about that place, but it's definitely a little weird.
I do think people tend to overestimate their ability to find things in the wilderness, regardless of how many people look. You could be a few feet from lost equipment or even remains and never know, even in "open" places like clearings or deserts. Happens alllll the time. Someone vanishing with no trace is something to take note of sure, but not necessarily proof of anything supernatural. While I agree bears are absolutely capable of sneaking up on someone, regardless of their knowledge of the animal (being an expert does not mean you have an internal ping notification when a bear is nearby), I don't think it was a bear attack in this case. Both because I am inclined to trust the local bear expert and because it really doesn't sound like a bear predation to me either. But it absolutely makes sense that he could have passed from natural causes (like a heart attack) and been scavenged by predators after the fact. I would frankly be more shocked if a body left in that environment for weeks was *untouched* by scavenging. It would explain the lack of struggle. I do think there are some cases that have more than meets the eye, but frankly, a lot of them sound like plausible tragedies of the natural world to me. We tend to underestimate just how helpless a lone person really is in nature.
I really detest the phrase "can't be explained", when the infinitely more reasonable thing to say is "hasn't been explained". EVERYTHING can be explained. Cause and effect is an all-encompassing principle, and makes no exceptions. Just because you personally do not have all the information does not mean that there is no explanation, and it certainly doesn't mean that the only possible explanation is supernatural.
Eric's case from a mountaineering perspective really isn't too confusing. He may have accidentally tied a slipknot or some other knot into his carabiner, where if it was weighted, instead of holding tight it would come loose. He also could have accidentally unclipped the carabiner and slipped, or have used a non-locking carabiner. With all these possibilities, I see the most reasonable option being him slipping and falling, the knot coming untied or the carabiner opening, and then him sliding down the mountain into a crevasse or maybe all the way down to the forest, his pack falling off in the forest. He also could have slipped and then gone to the ice cave for shelter, and died there. Accidents like that happen a lot, especially in rock climbing, but it could have happened here too. With 5 foot visibility and these conditions there was pretty much no way they would all make it out alive. The other two are lucky to be alive. A good way to compare climbing Rainier in 5 foot visibility is that it's like betting your life on the Browns winning the Super Bowl. You'd have to be the king of all morons to do that.
The one thing that often gets left out of these stories which kind of irks me a little bit, Is the fact that when you're out in the woods especially more rugged remote parts of A hiking trail, Not necessarily cleared out or well taken care of, There could be a body laying 10 feet from you and you just wouldn't see it. Also I know of plants that mess with a dog's ability to track, They are all over the United States But mostly on the East Coast. Where I live in the Adirondack mountains we have had hikers and hunters go missing From areas that would seem relatively flat or not your standard term of rugged And just never be found. Thomas Messick for example, A lot of people don't believe he was ever even in those woods to begin with, I believe he was And I also believe that he was accidentally shot and then buried in those woods. And yet he was a missing 411 case. We've had little kids go missing all around this area and it never makes the news, We've had hikers just disappear off the face of the Earth and it never makes the news. If you wanna find something strange come to the Adirondacks. It's bigger than any other National Park in the United States, There are some mountain trails that only get hiked by about 5 people a year, There are areas that are absolutely untouched by humans. One area for example I found a fully intact group of lean tos 28 miles from any trail, In an area that I just walked into to see if I could find any bear. The only markers that were left in that area were from me to get back to the trail. If there are wild men that's exactly where you're gonna find them. Either here or in the appalachians. I would recommend for your next into thin air that you go back to the area where Thomas Messick went missing do some research and find some of the Real weird ones.
He's 50/50 for me. Leaving things out or putting them in to make things more mysterious to sell books and docs is common but that also means its a conflict of interest. Its fun to listen to but I also watch more podcasts on it then just his works to see if there is debunking or filling in of gaps, etc.
As someone who actually has a better time navigating the woods and outdoors than i do in cities. There really is something unnatural about certain areas or times out there. I am lucky and very fortunate to say I've never once gotten lost in the woods around the farms and acreages I called home. But there was one time when my Great Pyrenees (big ass farm dog) made cries and sounds that i truly hope i never hear again, i went immediately into fight or flight as that dog was my only living companion in the area for miles and for months at a time. I have mental health issues and at the time was 17 and owned no firearms but had a collection of replica swords and functional swords as well. I grabbed my most functional sword and sprinted into an area where my dog was clearly in the most serious peril I'd ever heard him in, which would not have been coyotes, bears, or anything of the sort as he's dealt and handled all of that before and never once made sounds like that. I only remember returning home with my dog in tow. He was ok with no visible wounds, but everything in between is still a complete blank, and this is the one and only time that's ever happened to me in my entire life to this day. I remember being disoriented, dizzy, unreasonably exhausted, and when i got to bed, i passed out immediately and slept for almost 2 days. I'm still unsure what happened, but something very wrong went down that night.
Wow had a very similar experience with my dog her name was Matilda, shortened to Tilda she was a boxer this happened when I was 15 I am now 48 never have talked about, but it came rushing back reading your post
In the case of Kenny Veach, I'm inclined to agree with his girlfriend. He'd been having suicidal thoughts and depression for years prior to his disappearance after finding his father who'd killed himself. He also definitely had no desire to go find that cave again and film it because he didn't even take his camera. He probably knew the area so well, he went somewhere no one would find him and suffer the way he did after finding his father's dead body. It's very tragic, but probably not supernatural
Appreciated the nuanced analysis and for pointing out the inconsistency to a degree, of him saying hes neutral and sticks to facts, ha, yet implies a couple of strong possibilities. At the same time, as a former cop, to leave out some of the facts you've brought to light is odd, coupled with his little issue when he was working, just makes me think of him in a different way now, thank you Aidans
He could be making things up about David so he can get more subscribers and more TH-cam money. I wonder how much of his TH-cam money goes to any organization or donate to homeless shelters, or if he ever donates to help starving kids? Probably not.
Hi Aiden, great video, as usual. Thanks for covering this topic with objectivity. It’s easier to believe that the boogeyman is out there grabbing people than it is that these people are randomly getting lost and the authorities just don’t care. For some people, it’s more about feeling safer. We are taught to believe that if the bad thing happens, someone will come and save us. Sadly, we are wrong. I enjoyed this video. Thanks again. Brenda P
As an aussie people can easily go missing in the desert. We have found people decades after they went missing and they were just a few hundred metres off highways in a car. It's not normal close to town, but there aren't many towns in the desert. On the open road you're much more likely to have people missing for a long time.
Well done. Your channel directed me to Enigma's. I've always been fascinated by the strange and weird. I've had small, inexplicable things happen to me in my life. However, it's not that rational explanation can't be implied. So many of the random experiences in life are like a frame in the shutter of a camera. Events happen so abruptly that we only have that still image in our linear minds. These were people in time. They had their own private lives compounded with a known personality. Pictures and here-say. Who to say what external demons they had or how motivated they were to accomplish something unmentionable to their loved ones. That being said. I believe that thing is out there.
A eucalyptus forest in the middle of the Aussie summer can be uncanny. There might be no sound except cicadas- and sometimes not even that. Several times in my life I have felt so freaked out by it that I know, if I had been alone, I would have just turned around and started running. I imagine that some of these stories start like that - a moment's unreasoned panic and then a wrong turn and then it's all metaphorically downhill from there. Mind you, I think that the most frightening kind of wood to be in is a really dense pine plantation - they are just all kinds of wrong.
Garrett's disappearance is really a weird one. Boy Scouts know how to search for people . The dad not following the buddy system is kinda weird, especially given what we know about Garrett, but sometimes it happens.
The BSA has been involved in a child abuse lawsuit literally got sued into oblivion. As a former childhood scout member and raised LDS I have no doubt that it could.have been a member of his immediate community. No real animal predator signs. No body in creek.... no trace... screams abduction. Plenty of cases of child abuse have been covered up by the church community too
Lmfao no, Boy Scouts do not know how to search for people. They teach out of a decades old paperback and tie knots. They preach far more than they practice.
The profile is the worst because it mixes up really weird things (like ending up a ridiculous distance away) with things that just explain why we never found them (like bad weather stopping the search) or both (dogs losing the scent, which is often bizarre but also explains not finding the person). That's not the same thing. Stuff like bad weather makes it less weird that they were never found, not more.
@@twilightparanormalresearch186 The thing is, there could be 100 cases where the search goes well for every time there's bad weather and the dogs lose the scent. But we wouldn't hear about those cases. We're selectively told about cases where the search failed.
Thanks for posting the excellent video. I am a modern Apache engineer who was born and raised on a rural reservation to hunt, fish, and hike in the remote desert and mountains. I found your analysis to be pragmatic, objective, and nuanced. I agree that David Paulides is genuinely sincere in his analysis with occasional mistakes likely due to the sheer volume of cases he analyzes and some degree of confirmation bias. I subscribe to David's channel too and have seen his videos. He reminds me of cops I had known in the Bay Area who had good relations with Native Americans. I used to play softball with those guys when I was a young summer intern at the DOE of the East Bay back in 89. I did go to college at the U. of Notre Dame in South Bend, IN as an undergraduate. I am familiar with Mishawaka. I also studied hypoxia in graduate school for biomedical engineering. I lived in CO for 4 years and ran a 10k on a mountain trail at Vail when I was young. Could it be that the physician got disoriented by hypoxia or high altitude sickness. South Bend is much lower in altitude, and it's flat. Someone from that area would struggle badly hiking on steep, mountainous terrain overwhelmed with snow, slippery rocks, and thin air. It would have been easy to get disoriented, especially if he drank caffeine with coffee before going out. Caffeine elevates the likelihood of hypoxia at high altitude. So does alcohol.
When I was in a grade 12 Anthropology Class I was told that I could not comment on an issue because I had personal experience and was considered a primary source. Only the textbook and its foreign writer could have an informed opinion on the matter. The textbook was wrong...
I think Garrett wanted to go fishing alone and it wasn't a mistake that he didn't take the right turn back to the camp. So when he was corrected he realized he was being supervised and left the trail when eyesight was broken. As a kid I'd idealized the notion of the solitary fishing trip, being alone with one's thoughts or whatever. I did the same exact thing, got bored, and went back. I returned to tell the tale, no one being the wiser, Garrett didn't - what happened to him I can't say, but it explains the fishing pole and why he could "disappear" despite the nearness of the camp and of supervision.
Honestly I feel that this is all a ploy by Paulides to get people more invested in investigating missing people. Give it a veil of mystery, get people interested and talking, and boom, you got a movement demanding that law enforcement and forestry agencies take greater responsibility and are more publicly answerable.
The hardest part about reading 411 theories is that there’s often a fairly obvious solution to the mystery (even with loose ends) but it’s just too sad to comprehend. The idea that a child or even an experienced outdoorsman can die in such a gruesome fashion in this day and age is a really difficult concept to grasp. We want to believe that something so terrible can only be a supernatural occurrence.
No. It's about the details. Everyone knows that people get lost or hurt and die in the woods all the time, no matter their level of experience. Certain cases have very strange details. That's what people are responding to.
This, yeah. The number of times I've heard "but they were an experienced outdoorsman, they would never do X or Y" as proof is mind-blowing. People...aren't always rational. In fact they often aren't, especially if they get scared. And accidents happen all the time. We can never really be certain what another person would do in a certain situation unless we've personally seen them in that situation before.
Love your more academic approach. I'll add if there are 2 things that make a person vulnerable in the wild they're overconfidence, (the gifted), and any kind of disability, both extremes being Paulides criteria. Average people have the advantage in wilderness.
34:51 Three shots fired rapidly is the outdoorsman signal for needing help. Also two fires would be far more noticeable if anyone was searching for him, especially for searchers in an aircraft.
I feel like the ones found higher up might be dragged up by predators. Big cats can carry a lot of weight, or even bears. But if they don't find any animal marks, that's weird
If you are lost, and the only searchers you see are helicopters, you are more likely to head uphill to increase your chance of being spotted. Foliage is also less the higher up you go.
@@kitfisto1827 I've often found it odd that people think a missing person heading up hill is so unlikely. I've never been lost in the woods, but I think if I was I might want to try to find higher ground to get a better view of the area, or to have a better chance of being seen. Like, my thought process would probably be to get higher up, then climb a tree to look around, maybe tie some clothing to the branches to catch attention.
For Americans wondering about the RCMP, I've only had a few dealings with them and in all three cases they did nothing. 1.) My mom was attacked in a bar by her ex-boyfriend. The police came, made a report, filed a restraining order and then any time he was stalking her, she was told to go somewhere else. 2.) I was the recipient of a driveby shooting (nobody was hurt so calling myself a victim seems dramatic?). A neighbour called the RCMP and they came, asked if we had beef with anyone, had a cop camp out the rest of the night aaaaaand that was it. Case closed. 3.) I lived in a rough area and there was a lot of homeless people. One of them had been motionless in the park for 20 minutes so I called the non emergency to ask how to get someone to check on him because I was not comfortable checking on a strange man alone and basically had to talk the cop into sending someone while he gave me shit for not doing it myself. I did know an RCMP officer personally that took his job seriously and was a solid dude BUT I think the RCMP just has a culture of not giving a crap.
@Not PC In most cases I would have, but he had been moaning earlier and then hadn't moved for a few hours and thought leaving a dead homeless guy next to the playground was probably a bad idea. Plus, the ONLY time I see cops in that part of town is at Tim Horton's or in homeless camps so I figured they'd want to clear out the park if the guy was just asleep and I was being paranoid 😅
@Not PC Oooh, that makes sense. My neighbourhood at the time was in the transitional phase where there were kids AND homeless people/druggies. I'm not sure if kids play there any more but the times I've driven through it looks like they've cleaned the area up a bit
Is the one decent RCMP officer you knew a 6'6" biker named Ken by any chance? Because we might both know the single decent Mountie who actually gives a shit. Back when we played D&D together he always complained about how useless and lazy everyone he worked with was. In game and in reality, he was always Lawful Good.
I have read a lot of these cases and while I understand occams razor and plausible explanations. I think that the sheer number of cases that fit the last two profile sets is possible evidence of something weird. Im sure a meta-analysis knocks off a number of cases but the weird ones are so freaking weird. Not to mention all the SARS out looking. Something is going on...
Nothing weird happening and the profile is a laughable joke. Study "missing person behavior", "terminal burrowing" and "paradoxical undressing". DP is a conman.
I used to get lost on our own family property. As an adult, I tried walking in a nature preserve once and got horribly turned around. I feared I would have to spend the night in there. After trying to navigate for hours, I finally found my way back out to the parking area. I have never gone "hiking" again. I walk in malls.
I guess there are proper marked trails in the US as well? Otherwise visit Switzerland 🇨🇭 a country so small that Civilization is never further than 10 miles away. Bad weather however can kill you even here on high altitude
@runswithraptors personal experiences. I think it's interesting how the majority of people who form rock solid opinions about this stuff don't even go outside much, let alone out in the true wilderness 😅
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There's something strange in the national parks. Who you gonna call? Not the government
Some thing strange in the woods.
@Shadowdragon. I don’t know why the government just doesn’t admit that ‘it’s the government’. They get away with all the other 💩they do.
@@dylanmulvaney9912 neighbors woods* 😉
Yt diehold foundation
@@dylanmulvaney9912 😅😅
I’m a 41 yr old seasoned hiker with multiple hunting and tracking skills, I know when to push further and when to leave. For the most part the outdoors will tell you when to leave but for those that do not know or can not tell is when the outdoors can turn. A key factor is sound, once the outdoors goes silent is when it’s time to leave. I have heard this multiple times throughout the years. I learned this early on from my uncle and also my best friends father. I’m not trying to scare anyone here but if you do not watch and listen to the outdoors the outdoors will watch and listen to you. Pls stay safe and enjoy the outdoors that is given to us but respect it just the same.
There is a mountaintop small "lake" in NE TN that was damned-up MANY years ago by early settlers. Its not very frequented by people as the hike is decently strenuous and its just kinda out of the way of the state wilderness area that its in.
All 3 times Ive been there were in the summer, usually midmornings. As you get closer to the area the forest falls totally silent. No birds, no insects, nothing. The pattern freaked me out more than anything and while I have my photos from my times there to remember, Ill never go back. I was stupid to return and just happy im still around lol.
@@jdaniel3068 glad you made it and smart enough to.leave it be.
when things goes silent it means something is there, making the animals and even insects go silent so they cannot be detected, whatever been causing these vanishings is sentient and knows what it's doing, due to belongings being found stacked neatly etc etc. doubt it's the outdoors, unless the outdoors, or nature itself is sentient
No you are absolutely correct. I have a buddy I hike with a couple times a year and we ran to this one time at skyline. It wasn't only the silence, it was a very ominous feeling. I told my buddy to stop and take in what's going on. At first he didn't notice and then he gave me this look and turned around immediately. He has 20 years on me so I didn't ask any questions and followed.
Several people have commented that when things get quiet, and no nature sounds can be heard, take evasive action. Get out of the area, usually back the way you came in.
I’m Canadian and there are hundreds of missing and murdered indigenous women that the RCMP have turned a blind eye to. It’s shameful, these people deserve justice
That's absolutely shocking 😢
Same down here in the states. In the Dakotas and west there are a TON of missing indigenous women and no one seems to care. I’d take a wild guess why but I’d be called a race baiter 😒
I REMEMBER READING ABOUT THIS ABOUT 2YRS AGO. THAT IS REALLY SHAMEFUL.
Seems like every channel I used to follow started a MMIWC subject, they’d get 1 or 2 videos and talk about a never ending supply of content, then just stop, haven’t figured it out yet
The indigenous of north america are the most murdered people both in the past and currently
I was raised to fire 3 rounds of ammunition if I ever got lost in the woods. That might have been something Aaron knew as well. Could explain the 3 spent rounds. "The International Distress Signal is three signals of any kind - three gunshots or three whistle blasts." -beasafehunter
It’s certainly one option, but why not go towards the ranch he saw?
@@TheLoreLodge is there anything to suggest that he wasn't trying to and just didn't make it that far?
@@TheLoreLodge some people would shoot you if you get caught someone's property. Especially at dawn or nightfall. And some game wardens are like mallcop now and then. Especially on geen boxes or State land.
@@TheLoreLodge he could have been exhausted and just not able to make it.
@@TheLoreLodge could have been man eating turtles around. Didn't think about that did ya lore man?
As a deer hunter, I can assure you that hunters get lost and some go out to the peaceful place they love to end it all if life becomes unbearable for them. However, David has uncovered some pretty bizarre stuff. A certain percentage just do not make logical sense at all.
I agree 👍
They all make sense. David has uncovered nothing. There is a field of study called "lost person behavior" Google it. It's been around way before thus huckster.
@@SlickArmor "missing person behavior" sounds like a label to describe sh#t that doesn't make any sense.
@@angrynapolean3820 did you Google it? Actually I made a mistake it's lost person behavior. It is a serious study by real SARS guys after studying 150,000 missing people. DP is a joke in comparison. Your brain does weird things when you realize you are truly lost.
@@SlickArmor that's really sad that you would make the statement they all make sense nothing always make sense it's things that come that you cannot fathom things happen in life that don't make sense what do you mean all make sense
As someone that’s been lost in the woods, it’s easy to freak out and make dumb decisions. I was driving deer with my girlfriend’s brother in woods I was unfamiliar with and got separated. Instead of heading back up the mountain to the road, I followed boot tracks that went down further to a creek. I yelled and fired SOS shots, but heard nothing back. I started following the creek remembering there was a bridge right next to the cabin we were based at. After filling my boots with water and walking for about 300 yards, I remembered I had a cell phone and service. I called my girlfriend and she asked what was up. I told her I was lost and asked if they heard my shots, she said no and she was at the cabin, and told me to follow the creek. After walking another 500 yards hopping from one side to the other, the guy who owned the cabin hollered down to me. I started making my way up the steep hill to the crest and he helped me up. I was exhausted, cold, and pretty embarrassed, but alive. I can only imagine the fear people experience when in more remote locations.
huh. it's wild you forgot about the cellphone - shows a lot to how our brains work during panic!!
@@kelsielovesbbuabsolutely, I was talking with a guy I work with who worked late one day, he went into the gym, practiced basketball for about 30 minutes, grabbed his water bottle and suddenly his heart began beating super fast. He told me
“I thought I was going to just lay down on the floor and die…”
I said
You’re phone was with you wasn’t it?
He replied with
It was on the floor about 20 feet from him but he didn’t even give thought to the phone until his heart had calmed down 30 minutes later, he got his stuff, locked the door and it wasn’t until he was on his way home that he realized he had a way to call for help…
Our minds go primal when we panic
Glad you got home safe BUT your story seems to indicate how people will usually survive getting lost even after half panicking. The thing about some 411 cases is that a body is simply never found.Not even after many years when guns, modern clothing, belt buckles etc would not decompose. This sloppy and very inaccurate vid does not mention the most important and mysterious common factor....that dead bodies are found with shoes removed. This is completely different to the alleged phenomena of paradoxical undressing. No-one who is lost takes their boots off. No-one does that.
I can't remember what is called but because cell phones are still relatively new we do tend to forget they exist. I think it's called technesia but I'm not sure.
Have you tried not being dumb? Works for me.
Aaron's revolver with three fired shells isn't much of a mystery he probably became coherent enough to fire emergency signal shots at some point in his episode, which requires exactly three bullets.
Sometimes,
Lost in the woods - I'd still like to keep some shells in reserve.
Well, the classic hunter distress signal that they even teach in hunter safety is three evenly spaced shots fired in a safe direction. Fire the first shot, slowly count two maybe 3 seconds, fire the second, count two seconds, fire the third (always in a safe direction with each shot). If you are a hunter who hears the distress shot signal, you fire two evenly spaced in return. Fire once, count two seconds, fire the second shot. The issue is that the initial distress discharge really needs to be three shots. One or two just isn't enough to get the attention of other hunters. This a very old custom probably goes back to the frontier days, would be my guess. A lot of missing 411 hunters do not bring sufficient ammunition. This prevents them from being able to fire distress shots.
In Aarons case, he may have fired 3 shells, but if he only had six shots in the cylinder, he might have kept three bullets in the encase of a mountain lion or bear. Then he might have become inchorehent again. The other is that while pistols are much louder than rifles due to the shorter barrel (kind of like straight pipe exhaust) I have heard that the sound from a pistol report even a high powered magnum doesn't travel as far.
I was told to fire three in intervals, then again
Exactly. Which makes it even weirder that his friends didn't hear.
the fact that Bart’s friends were the ones to find his remains after the authorities had failed to thoroughly investigate the disappearance is so upsetting. i cannot imagine how it would feel to be failed in that way (KNOWING they’ll still get paid for it) and not only having to go check for yourself, but being the ones to find your dead friend.
If I remember correctly this was the suspicious one, and many of my friends think his friends killed him or knew who did
He probably was not there when the search parties went through the area. That is one of the great mysteries with all of the missing people being found where they have searched several times.
Personally I think he flipped out and they killed him. They felt bad for his family so they recovered the body. His friends were NOT HELPFUL during the investigation but somehow found the body. They’re the most suspicious “friends” ever.
Those volunteeris who do the searching do not get paid.
Lots of Germans or people with German ancestry love to be outdoors ! German - Swiss American here! Just an observation ; 🤔🤔🇩🇪🇨🇭🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🌲🤗🌲
One of the leading scientific agencies in Australia used to ban their scientists/engineers from driving home in peak hour - the reason; they think too much, don't pay attention and we're getting into accidents. Smart people getting lost and/or going missing is not surprising...the very 'smart' also often have too much curiosity and not enough self preservation instincts.
Smart people don't always use their wise mind when making decisions. Some people let anxiety or emotions guide them no matter how book smart they are. Keep calm and use your wise mind.
High education (a) does not necessarily mean you are wise or have great common sense and (b) does not remove the cognitive biases (such as confirmation bias and groupthink) that literally all humans share
I think it’s a stretch that “smart people just think too much”-dumb people think, they just have worse problem solving and rationalizing abilities. That sounds like a correlation being confused as causation problem. All people are more likely to get in wrecks during peak driving times.. duh lol I highly doubt people with high IQ are predisposed to being in car wrecks because of inattention or “thinking too much”
"We're" is a contraction of "we are".
😂
No. Just stop.
Care to share who this mythical un-named "leading scientific agency" is?😂😂😂
Grew up in the woods pretty far from other people and spent most of my life wandering in the forest. You never realize how incredibly easy it is to lose your landmarks until you do. You walk in one direction just a little longer than usual and suddenly you're completely lost and have no idea what direction you need to walk in to get out. Its an incredibly scary experience. Happened to me a few times, absolutely mortifying every time. It's partially luck and partially learned behaviors that let me find my way home each time. It is unbelievably easy to get lost in nature. Scarily easy. Even if it's a place you've been hundreds of times, even if you're not far from home or from people. It is unbelievably easy.
I'm on 5 acres half woods, and I've been lost on my own property 😅 if it wasn't for my cat who followed me, I would have been wandering around in circles. I started following my cat, and he quickly led me back to the trail. Almost as if he knew I was lost.
My hubby and my brother were camping in a popular tourist spot, climbed up a really easy to see path, but on the way back down it was nearly indistinguishable from the surrounding bush. They ended up with one walking ahead, and if they were sure they were still on the path, calling the other one down (staying in sight of each other at all times). If that could happen where they were, it could happen anywhere.
Man. I can see how the color value for the path could completely change for an observer depending of the angle between your eyes and the path, the light and contrast values of the scene, and similar factors. But I would never have predicted that result. Maybe some of those Missing-411 folks have a natural explanation.
NOPE! I believe something unseemly has been going on for a long time. I believe the missing are targeted--otherwise how do you explain the persons with similar names disappearing within short intervals of time.
I currently live in the woods and I have to pay attention to where the sun is to get back home it's that easy to get turned around in my backyard.
Every one of you sounds like the kind of person that doesn't even know how to find cardinal directions.
You could have a compass and a map and still get lost.
That's a YOU problem.
I and a friend both got lost in a mountain range in Colorado when we were in high school. Missing for about 40 hours. Search and rescue was called, bloodhounds, parents fired rounds into the sky to guide us, the whole works, but they never even got close to us. At some point I drew a map in the dirt and tried to guide us back this way, and we found the camp. Search and rescue had us pretend to be lost soon the dogs could find us for a wholesome ending, and the dogs wandered around for like 15 minutes less than 100ft from us. I don't want to say that there isn't something supernatural going on, but I can say from experience that either we had the most incompetent S+R guys and dogs or tracking is a lot less effective than in movies I've seen.
dog tracking is a LOT less effective,than folks are led to believe.Some sar groups refuse to use them as introduces a false sense of security .They are much like lie detector tests..
Haha, good comment.
That's adorable they wanted to make sure the dogs felt like they did a good job. I'm glad you two made it back safe.
Maybe it's something supernatural making Search & Rescue incompetent. Like faeries playing tricks.Not saying. I believe in faeries. Just a thought I had.
wait, the dogs wandered around 15 minute less then a hundred feet from you? did you actually yell for them, you obviously seen them with their handlers, the dogs and their handlers would of easily heard you.
"A wildlife photographer the year prior had also been eaten by a bear, on camera. Quite grizzly"
Irony with a pun
Not gonna lie, that made me spit out my coffee.
I was at a bar in the town I grew up in with friends (wasn't drinking) and decided to go for a night walk. I got turned around and spent 5 hours lost in the woods in sub freezing weather, I even fell in a creek a couple times. I was so frozen at one point I sat up against a tree and decided to just give up and die. Anyway, eventually around 4am after being soaked and lost for 5 hours I stumbled onto a trail and found my way to a main road. As it turns out I was less than a quarter mile from where I had started just walked around in circles through a bunch of strip-mine ponds. I also had a fully charged cell phone with me with service the entire time. I guess my point is you never know exactly how your brain will react and function until your in the situation. I can only remember a few key moments from the experience and I should have died. I didn't tell anyone where I was going or what I was doing, and for sure had I died There would be a shitload of unanswered questions that would seem hard to explain.
How stupid can ya get? 🙄 😅🤣
Its obvious many have no brain
@@redrustyhill2Yeah? And who forged your transcripts, genius?
@@redrustyhill2 I hate it when someone shares their story and someone else uses it as a opportunity to put them down. Its cowardly and uncalled for. He was sharing some first hand knowledge of how things can go wrong. It may be very useful ,someday , to someone.
You get roofied?
I 100% think the park service is aware that something weird is out there, but only in the way that anyone who has spent a lot of time in the wilderness or in very rural areas knows that something weird is out there
Agreed. Theres no way they havent noticed something, but they also dont wanna seem crazy and lose their jobs. Same with the USFS.
They're all bring paid extra cash tax free to act dumb. Park rangers are not smart. If my 12 year old son went missing if call my game warden. No cops. Just our game warden and all my hunting friends in my county. Oh and I'd ask David Paillides to come help. He would be on the next flight to Texas.
That's what I really was meaning to say LOL but I was so annoyed by that Lord dude that made this video LOL just hearing his voice was worse than Nails on a chalkboard! So that's why my comment was kind of harsh no offense against park rangers they know something is up but they're just trying to make a living and take care of them and their family that's all
I think they are just underpaid and deal with too many people asking them bigfoot questions than anything more about the park.
I have a friend who's a park ranger in Yellowstone. He says there's an unspoken rule about what's in there. They never talk about what's out there, they never discuss weird incidents. They all have to ignore it, and if you do bring it up, the other ranger will act like they dont know what you're talking about, and you will be reported for it and fired.
He refused to say anymore to me. I think whatever is out there, he's scared to even talk about it, cause I told him, it's just a job, you can find another one, but he just had this concerned look in his eyes. He wouldn't discuss it further. Idk if it is a government thing, it probably is? But there is still that mystery of the supernatural.
"Is the government trustworthy?"
"No."
Subscribed
Lol
Lmfao same ! 😂
Hasn't been for decades.
@@scottpalmer053Hasn't been since it's inception
people forget that there were communities who were kicked out to create national parks- it's not hard to believe that they never left. in shenandoah national park specifically you can see the ruins of homes and churches just off the trail, remnants of the over 2000 people forced to relocate. more westward, thousands of native americans were prohibited from living or hunting on park property. 26 different tribes lived on what became yellowstone national park. a smaller national park, prince william, was once a thriving community of free black folks with a self-sustaining economy so strong they went unaffected by the great depression. however, since they traded amongst themselves and didn't make money, they were categorized as poor and were removed with two week's notice to form the park.
human evils often go forgotten, whether it be the cause of a missing person or the creation of "america's best idea."
There were certainly unjust decisions made “for the greater good” and I will absolutely admit that.
@@TheLoreLodge I think the commenter is implying that there could be descendants of those displaced people's living out in the woods - a potential source of "true wildmen".
@@TheLoreLodgevery brave
People also forget Whites have been in North America for more than 20k years. "Native" is just anti white trash like mush of the rest of the crap you said.
This is fascinating info that I’ve never heard about before
411 used to be the phone number for "Information" in the dark ages before the Internet. You could call it to find restaurants and stuff.
Missing 411 = Missing Information
👌🏼
Thank you, O wise and great sorcerer.
Thank you. I thought if someone is missing. (911 Police, 411 missing center or so)
The automated system would give the weather and you could also select various items like one of my favorites Option #3 School Lunch Menu for the Week" 🤞 come-onnnnn Pizza Friday😅
I still use the expression 'give someone the 411' when talking about providing information to people...I think I'm old
"Relies too much on primary sources" is wild. I'm not a historian, but I majored in it and like, what is the alternative? "It came to me in a dream"?
Never attribute to the supernatural what can more readily, practically, and reasonably be applied to human failings.
I must say...until you are a regular hiker, hunter, or just one who romps in the woods...one truly wouldn't understand the odd and eery feeling that can occur from time to time. The feeling that you just cannot put your finger on, but you just know you're not alone. I hike solo all the time and it's the unknown, not crazy humans, that I worry about most. When you experience it, then opinions change...
I've had some extremely unnerving experiences of being watched. Rare, but strong feelings. I always leave.
That’s why my ass stays out the woods. I don’t even like the fact that I live on forested land-in Florida-of all places.
@@robinmcinarnay7827 Well, *Florida* - there's your first problem right there!
Yes, I agree with U 200% 💥
@@robinmcinarnay7827 I have experienced the Big Quiet while hiking and camping in Florida. 😳
Out of everything I hear about these the WILDEST thing for me is the lack of a database for missing person cases that seems insane to me
it's theorized the NPS has one but refuses to admit or share it.
There is a missing persons database just not one specifically for national parks.
@@ElGrabnarthey have one but deny its existence
There is no mandate for adding names to the missing database.
That's because there covered up. They no exactly what's going on ain't that don't want anything snooping and stumble upon the truth. There obviously something going on . They know how many toilet paper rolls are in the porta potties yet they don't keep records of missing people.. Gtfoh with that.
I was once setting camp in an old, unused campground in Colorado. I got set up and I heard a gruff voice in my head. It said, "Go away! You are not wanted here." I left. Very freaky.
Something similar happened to me. I was standing in front of a Church taking photographs & I heard a voice to my right say 'What's he doing?' & a different voice to my left replied 'He's taking photographs'. There was no one near me. I'm a sceptic, but that was creepy.
This is most likely your own survival instincts and not the voice of a 3rd party. The brain does a lot of really weird shit when under duress
I wouldn't say I was under duress. I was just taking photos. Never happened before or since.
@@nordikkai7185it’s 110% NOT their own subconscious 😂😂😂😂😂 life is full of unexplained things and there are absolutely without a doubt creatures/entities/aliens/paranormal/government experiments and more out in the woods / national forests/ just everywhere .
@@speedy692it might just be because I'm alone in my house at night, but this comment scared me to an unreasonable degree. hearing voices really gets me for some reason
I was almost abducted when I was very young. It was in Kmart in the early 90's. When people noticed they harangued the guy and tried to keep him there but he ran outside and got away. I do remember being in a state of shock when he grabbed my tightly on the shoulder, walking me toward the door in such a calm manner, no words, that anyone batting an eye might think he was just "grandpa" or some uncle walkin with his kid or nephew. So the idea that a kid would scream when abducted isn't necessarily what would happen all the time. I should note that this all went down pretty fast and because I wandered off just an isle or two, just being squirrelly and bored 6 year old.
Could've been what happened to the boy scout. Just dragged off by someone he knew and didn't think it was odd.
@@MrCrunch808Yeah, I think that is probably what happened. He talked about the priest abuse scandal as a way of showing why the boy at the Catholic camp went missing, but there have also been a lot of similar cases in the Boy Scouts.
You were extremely lucky to get away from someone who could have murdered you in a horrific way
@@carl6153 you could’ve just said ‘glad you were safe!’ man
@@localcryptid42I hate the internet 💀
So, I used to work at a boy scout camp. that statement of "scouts make a lot of noise" is an understatement. We had this lake, and you could hear people across the lake, cause they were that loud. The Staff tents had a few of the camper tents near us, and we used to complain kinda often about them not shutting up. Its honestly crazy how someone can disappear in such a small distance, without a trace.
Sound travels much quicker over water, and also retains coherence for further distances. Something to factor in, I suppose. js lol srry
Whoa you just made me think of something . I lived in this haunted old farm . Sometimes , a lot of times on Saturday nights , I would come out of my garage and stand in my driveway and smoke . It was always late , I would hear like a party goin on and it sounded like it was down at my pond . I’d get all excited and march down there in the dark and I’d find myself standing by the pond . Alone . Nobody’s down there . Now the party sounds like it’s down in the woods . That’s usually when my hair stood up and I’d be like , wtf I just did it again .
@@jppryer5982 Noooooope!!
Same here man
@@MeanBeanComedywhy not? Or do you like pissing on everything
Were the adults that chaperoned Garret Bardsley's boy scout group ever investigated or considered possibly involved in his disappearance? Someone he'd have felt comfortable walking with
I’ve spent almost my entire 30 year life hunting and exploring the PNW and every major forest surrounding it. No matter how armed to teeth I am and how prepared I am. Covering my scent, moving silently, under cover of rainfall, supported by hunting teams…… there is always moments I can feel something in the forest is bigger and badder than me. That feeling isn’t just paranoia, it feels more like the foreboding of an ambush. Wether it is humans or something else, I don’t know, but there are forces out there that can make you disappear very easily unless you are absolutely dialed in with heavy firepower….. be careful out there folks.
So true!!!
Salsa, I hate to tell ya but I guess the reason we get that "someone's watching me" feeling is because we actually saw the thing watching us, but didn't consciously pick it up, and so our alarm goes off. Like you might go out to dinner, and of course as any person does you naturally look around you. Not paying hard attention to anything but just looking around. And what you don't consciously know is that your eyes scanned over someone staring at you. Maybe they're in a booth with a bunch of people and since you aren't hardcore paying attention to every stranger in the restaurant, you didn't consciously notice it, but your eyes did absorb that info. Now you're going to have that feeling that someone's watching you. So next time you're out there, and you feel that, take it seriously. Cuz you could have scanned over a bear hidden behind vegetation, or a man partially tucked behind a tree or something. Of course our mind can get to us in places that give us eerie vibes, but it is a fact that the "I'm being watched" feeling happens because we saw something or someone watching us and didn't consciously notice it.
@@godwarrior3403 yup. That's about right. I think it's likely probable that other dangers and signs of what would let people know that something dangerous is around would activate the same intuitions from the eyes not directly acknowledged via sight.
@@godwarrior3403idk about that.
I use to be a firm skeptic in the whole "I feel someone watching me" and for the most part I think folks are full of shit.
But I was hunting in the rural mountains of Virgina once and I was use to woods. Never really nervous except at dark simply because my vision range is low. One morning around 730am I could not shake a odd feeling of danger. Like I made a mistake and couldn't figure out what it was. About 3min into the feeling I noticed motion in a tree across from me. But then nothing for 5mins. So I stoped starting. Feeling still there. About 7min after that I notice notion in front of me in line with the tree from earlier......a fucking bobcat......the size of a damn full grown sheep dog. In full stalk mode working it's way to me. I WAS IN FULL CAMMO aside from my face. So I went to turn my gun and it took the fuck off. Guess I was bigger than I thought. But that thing was watching me from the tree, and came down to get closer and only then did I notice movement. But then lost it for a good 5 mins.
@@410cultivar Good cautionary tale. Stay safe out there man
You guys do a great job of really explaining how some of these cases might have happened instead of leaving things out of the narrative to make them spicyer. Well done as always!
theres more than one?
@@socalninjaturtleyou didn’t watch the video did you
@@twilightparanormalresearch186 i have watched many, i never see more than one dude
@@socalninjaturtle this isn’t Dave’s channel this someone doing his on view on CanAms cases on411
@@montinewillen6545 dave? Thought his name was ayden
17:30 On a similar note to a missing person being found in an area that had been searched, there's a case of a girl who went missing on Mt. Davis, the highest point in PA, back in 1830. She locally became known as the wild child. She left her families home to gather their cows and didn't come back. The family searched and searched for her but didn't find her until quite a while later. Like, so much later that she had become feral. Once she had been assimilated back into her normal life, she explained how the search party had actually been really close to them multiple times, but when she heard them coming she would intentionally hide from them in the bushes and rock formations.
On the case of Bobby, i think the priest had help covering it up and hiding his body. If they can have someone accept a child's skull and stay quiet who else knows what else they did ??? One argument against Kenny being Missing 411'd was he didn't take his camera on the last trip so he wouldn't be able to photo the cave. I do believe him about the cave encounter though
I was suspicious about the priest too!! And Kenny yeah why bring your phone then leave it at the mine shaft if you didn't plan to disappear?
And why go out looking for M cave to prove to everyone he HAD seen it, but.. without any option to document said cave..? Idk maybe he could do it on his phone but thats really really weird detail..
@@Mr.NopeNope yeah that's the one thing that gets me, I think he would've took his camera at least. The desert is really big and it would be so hard to find anyone, esp if scavengers had scattered the remains
Kenny had a smartphone, he could have just used that for photos/videos. If he had a smartphone, I’d imagine him taking just that to have less stuff weighing him down while looking for the cage, take some preliminary photos/videos with the phone once he found it, and come back with a proper camera once he is sure of the exact location of the cave.
@@Red-jt6uu except the phone was found at mine shaft. That's way before the mystery cave.
I think his remains are in the collapsed mine shaft. Or he wanted everyone to think that's where his body disappeared.
Why drop the phone? Why not bring the camera? It is possible that he walked away from his life, to start a new one. Being called a lier, even if was a lie. Sometimes people box themselves in with a lie. And will do anything to protect the lie. Instead of admitting it.
We are a strange species.
One thing can be said about David for sure: man can grow a immaculate mustache.
It’s actually a caterpillar
Agreed!
in california its called a cockduster
He used to have a glorious long hair when younger as well.
That there is a man's man mustache.
I’ve only experienced something truly weird only once, and it could very well have been a predator eyeing me down, but i felt something watching me on a walk one night, i could not see anything but i felt such overwhelming dread i rushed back home as soon as possible and never entered or went near the woods again. The fear i felt was primal, and rushed through every fabric of my being within seconds. I have been terrified of the woods ever since, I don’t trust anything that can put that much fear inside me when I can’t even see what is doing it. Gorgeous landscapes though, but they put the fear of god in me lol.
That is a true prey response you felt, could have been a Bobcat bear or something along those lines watching you.
Yes ,I have felt that fear too.Fishing in Montana along wooded River almost dark. The fish were biting big time, but sudden fear gripped me as I scanned for mountain lion. But saw nothing. I got the fk outta there. Never forgot.
your instinct definitely saved your life ! So glad you survived that experience !
Always trust your instincts, ALWAYS!!
This guy clearly puts a lot of time and effort into his research and then presents it with a lot of intelligent interpretation. I really enjoy his presentations.
He picks on himself, too, like with word pronunciations, etc. It's refreshing from so much of the arrogance that runs rampant on the internet--videos and comments alike. Humility goes a long way.
Yes, I agree. Enjoy listening to his videos and getting a different point of view on some of the cases.
He knows people tend to feel bad for the underdog.
Benzos don’t just treat anxiety & depression symptoms with alcohol withdrawal. Alcohol withdrawal can kill you and the withdrawal symptoms-depending on your addiction level-are beyond crippling. So if he was in active withdrawal because he started drinking again and then ran out of alcohol along the way, that’s beyond awful. Plus Benzos by themselves can make you lose your balance easily, and even worse, affect your ability to think in so many ways. They affect your judgment & your memory. You literally don’t form memories-so you’re not actually forgetting things, you’re not “writing the memories down in your brain” in the first place. Benzos also increase the effects of alcohol exponentially. So put all that together and you would have someone who was seriously impaired as far as judgment, memory -where he was, where he needed to go, etc-physical balance, alertness and so many other things you need to make it out of that situation alive.
Thought this about that one case where the kid didn’t know where he was
Benzo withdrawal is the worst. Worse than opiate withdrawal. It can last for months too. It can take a very, very long time till you're okay. I've gone through Xanax withdrawal a couple of times. You shake like a m*f*cker and you feel like you're gonna die, and the anxiety makes you wish you were dead. And it takes so long it's almost impossible to go through it. Reality feels totally f*cked up too, total depersonalisation syndrom during benzo withdrawal. The only thing worse may be methadone withdrawal just because it takes even longer. It can take half a year before you begin to feel okay.
@@mattiassvanberg8292 Absolutely. Although all drug withdrawal is AWFUL, no matter what your drug of choice is, which is why it should never be done without medical assistance. You should never stop any drug cold turkey, and don’t be ashamed if you were using them “illegally,” you can still get help. Go to your local ER or addiction center. But alcohol withdrawal protocols almost always use benzos for that detox period. Of course the last thing you should be doing is going into the wilderness, especially alone, while detoxing. Addiction is primary progressive and terminal. It should be the first thing you focus on treating and get help to get clean in a professional setting with people who treat you like a human being, not a criminal, and are compassionate about helping you get through. Once you’re clean, hell yeah, head into the beautiful wilderness. Just don’t go alone & don’t separate from your group!! As we’ve learned.
Benzos suck so fckn bad, and the withdrawals are worse. I got hooked on them by accident once via prescription, it was miserable detoxing but i wasnt ever going to let that happen to myself with them again so i never got the script refilled. My anxiety is far easier to deal with than a week long withdrawal that can kill you without proper care
@@chrism4008 Which kind were you on? Valium (Diazepam) or Clonazepam have such a long half-life. It takes a month or more to start feeling better. Xanax (Alprazolam) isn't as long, but much more intense. I never ever want to go through that shit again.
Police have never been prohibited by anything but incompetence to file a missing persons report.
Cruelty and laziness as well.
And a lot of them too
So edgy hating law enforcement
@@TSmith-yy3cc next time someone breaks into your home call a crackhead
It seems like in a lot of these cases the person that goes missing does not seem to realize they are lost.
I remember Bobby Bizup's case from the original missing 411 documentary and thought that maybe he was being abused by adults at the camp but I didn't know it was more or less confirmed. 😔 So awful, poor kid.
Abused by his parents?!? Was he from California??
@@RM-pg4js
That’s rude and just about what I’d expect from a MAGA nitwit.
@@RM-pg4js no the christians abused him
@@RM-pg4js christians are disgusting
@@RM-pg4jsThey were from and in Idaho when the little boy went missing.
RE: the part about finding children in places that have already been searched. When I was really really small (and I mean small enough to fit my entire body under a kitchen chair with reasonable comfort) we went on a trip to see my maternal grandparents who lived far away. I woke up early on the day we were supposed to go home and did not want to leave, so being a little kid without good cognitive reasoning skills I thought "well if I hide long enough I won't have to leave and they will just get tierd of searching for me and go without me" (I understand how dumb that was now and I feel bad I scared my parents, but kids don't think things through very well at that age). My grandma had an extra kitchen chair that wasn't pulled up to the table that my grandpa would throw his coats onto when he came in the door. I maneuvered one of the coats to cover most of the front legs of the chair like a curtain and crawled under the chair. When I say I must have sat there for 3 or 4 hours while they searched for me, I mean they literally walked within 6 inches of me multiple times and never saw me even tho I'm pretty sure my feet and legs should have been visible bc toddlers arent great at manuvering coats into a proper chair tent. I finally came out bc as a kid I was having a hard time being still that long and I was upset bc my mom was getting upset (as a kid i had had no concept of how upseting that would be to my parents when i initially hid). But it taught me something about the ability to hide things in plain sight. And because I was that small I was able to wedge myself Into a space they wouldn't have even thought to look.
Wow….kids…..😮
I grew up in the area of Minnesota where Brandon went missing and his farther was actually my 8th grade Ag and shop teacher. After graduating in my first year of college. My best friends new born child was involved in an accident in the same area around Marshal. Long story short the car that t-boned the vehicle with his child was driven by a woman who was texting and driving who blew a stop sign. The cops left any incriminating information out of their reports and defended the woman being in the wrong. She was married to one of the biggest farm owners in the area who had the police in their pocket. So I wouldn’t doubt that Brandon was killed by a farmer and covered by a rich farmer paying the cops to look the other way.
Well they wouldn't really be looking for incriminating evidence in a car accident. MN is a no fault state, meaning that no legal action would be taken (by the state) against that woman
Me too Lincoln county , mother completed suicide in Marshall, 1989 she was born in Germany 1937
jesus... That crooked eh?
@@p1nkishninjano fault means you can’t sue somebody personally for damages resulting from a crash. It doesn’t mean that there is “nobody at fault” and doesn’t mean there can’t be criminal charges for reckless/impaired/distracted driving that results in a crash. In fact, you need to have a police report that states the circumstances of an accident so the insurance companies can decide who’s policy is getting used for the vehicle repairs.
Source: I live here and have been hit by someone that resulted in insurance repairs
You know it , it's not rocket science after all.
On the Kenny case. It’s VERY hard to find someone out in the Nevada desert, the sagebrush gets just as big as a person and that’s not even considering all the animals that could drag him.
Plus mine shafts everywhere. I have hiked and camped near Area 51 (not too near of course) and you nailed the conditions. Veach could have been right beside searchers and they would never know. The desert is not Disneyland. It is death to those who commit one mistake.
“All the animals”. Yeah. You know, all those huge Nevada sagebrush predators like, uh…..coyotes.
@alfredhitchcook4996 my worse fear was "snakes in the sage". Might make a good movie. Lol 😁
I just discovered this channel and love it! Your factual approach with a healthy dose of skepticism, while continuing to have an open mind is refreshing. I love that you lack the smugness, arrogance and "know it all, smartest person in the room approach" that most of the skeptics seem to possess.
Hello fellow Zelda fan
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Never attribute to the supernatural what can more readily, practically, and reasonably be applied to human failings.
An open mind is a fine thing, but not when you expand that to include nonsense. It's not about being smug or whatever, but the human brain is just wired to love a good story more than a boring and unpleasant truth.
@@Blisterdude123 human failings are at the root of most occurrences. But to believe it covers 100% of the mysteries would be a human failing in itself. It's an interesting world and we do not have all the answers; at least not yet.
Your amount of detail is just staggering; both research and your ability to knit it together in front of the camera. Mad respect!
The Missing Enigma, that Aiden also mentioned towards the end, is also a great channel. He is a mixture of detail-oriented Lore Lodge and drawings from Bedtime Stories, it’s great.
@@robinmcinarnay7827thanks!
it's called intensive research and scripting.
“Is it tasty soup?”
“Its NOT TASTY SOUP!”
Perfect 😂
It isn’t
I LOLd
I concur, it is NOT a tasty soup
Having participated in search and rescues in the desert, it is really not odd to lose a person out there. Depending on the region, there can be mineshafts, but deserts can also be deceptive in how flat they are. There is still scrub brush, rocks, and odd land features that can hide a body (on one such search, multiple teams walked around and by a body in question because of where he was hidden, up under a large boulder. It wasn't until the body started to smell that he was located). In addition, desert scavengers are both ravenous and skittish; they will eat all parts of a body, and take portions with them to safer places to eat. It is entirely conceivable for a deceased person in the desert to simply disappear, and it happens a lot.
Yes, the person maybe. But to not find clothes or anything they had on them. Like in one instance a kid disappeared with a fishing rod and other things and nothing was ever located. And he was only about 60 yards from either his father or the camp site with lots of people at it.
Did you not watch the video?
People easily lose track of time. In all the Missing 411, where people claim they had just seen the person a second ago is probably not how things actually went down. They most likely stopped paying attention to the individual who disappeared for multiple minutes.
I sometimes accidentally take breaks froom Lore content, and coming back is like taking a nice sip of coffee on a cold morning. Thanks for the content you guys!
I really like how this channel has come along. The earliest videos were at times too conspiratorial for me. I think people really underestimate how easy it is to get lost or miss something, and how people can make bad decisions and then build on those bad choices in stressful situations. I'm open to the idea that some of the cases are weird but I like how there's a lot more consideration given to the mundane explanations instead of jumping to the extraordinary.
I agree with this. There could be less mundane explanations but people like to think the worst.
I agree. I am a firm believer that we don't rise to the occasion, we fall to our level of training knowledge. Most of us like to think we'd be great in a situation, and unfortunately most aren't.
I don’t know about Big Foot but there are DEFINITELY Wildmen living in the deep remote wilderness of Appalachia especially in and around the Cades Cove area. That’s why when visiting Cades Cove you need to have a formal written piece of documentation stating that you are going to be visiting Cades Cove for this X-amount of time. The National Park requires a type of waiting list/ registration for all those who are going to be venturing into Cades Cove. Historical speaking, there have been so many strange and bizarre disappearances in that area along with first hand accounts of the Wildmen of Appalachia. Furthermore, all of the true locals who live near, in, and around that area will tell you that there is a long history of Wildmen abducting/ killing naive people who come visiting the Cades Cove area.
Don't go without protection -- ever!
Wildmen-aka-sasquatch. Some you people have such strong cognitive dissonance you would come up with some wild mental gymnastics even if an entire clan of sasquatch was camped out in your front yard. You woud claim it was just a dream, or that it was just mutated bears.
can confirm
Lies. And if I lived there I'd definitely perpetuate the tale to dissuade imbeciles of your ilk showing up.
People have cameras on their phone for 20 years, there are CCTV, dashcams in cars and deercams everywhere. There are NO Bigfoot....
Remember, that all accounts of a person being taken by a cougar, where there was another person. They almost all describe it being a silent disappearance. Only difference is either the person coincidentally ahead looks back to see the attack, or the cat didn’t drag the victim off the trail, so when the person turned around they saw what happened. Also, these type of silent attacks are reported by survivors. So many of these cases sound just like this.
I'm not understanding why the victim is silent in this scenario. If a person is being killed by an animal you'd think they would scream or yell for help or fire a weapon.
@@johnthemachine don’t big cats tend to go for the throat
Yeah but again, that's assuming the kid hadn't dropped the fishing pole for whatever reason or it got tangled up on him. There'd have to be fishing line caught in the brush or something to track nearby. The fishing pole really has me hung up on that one. It's not really something that blends into nature.
@@johnthemachine Big cats either latch onto the throat and strangle prey, cutting off airflow so no noise can be made
Or they go for the back of the neck and sever the spinal cord.
And since we humans are pretty small and squishy, its super quick!
And cougars are far more widespread than the government will admit.
That said, where are the tracks, blood and fishing pole?
I am russian. Me and my friends have had that shitty habit to meet and drink alcohol every friday since we were teens. But unforunately, for some reason, frequently I lose control over myself when drink and have got myself into various bad situations many times. A few years ago in late june as usual on a friday we met. After the 'party' was over I went to a bus stop and took my bus. It was about 9:30 pm and it was already dark outside. So I was this time again so wasted, I started to kinda hallucinate. Then instead of leaving the bus at my stop, I kept riding till the end of the route to the outskirts of the town. I left the bus and had this vivid thought in my head, that somewhere out there in the dark, there are 'my friends' cooking meat, having fun and most importantly the are waiting for me. I started prowling in the dark in the woods looking for my friends and thank god quite soon my intoxication diminished enough, it snapped in my head like 'WTF? WTF I AM DOING HERE' At that time I realised I should go back home. But I was still far from sober. So I went to an approximate direction of the town. There were trees and bushes around and darkness, I was scared. At some point I stumbled upon a swampy piece of terrain with high reeds all over and far in the distance above a hill there were town's lights. So I went right across the swampy water, tripped over in the mud, thinking I was going to drown and clutched at the reeds and screamed. At about 2 am, covered from toes to head with mud, I got home.
Thank god nothing paranormal happened to my there in the darkness.
Regarding Garrett, isn't there another possibility? He could have been lured away by someone he knew. That would explain how he disappeared so close to camp and why there were no sounds of distress. Also, was there anyone else with his father who can back up his version of events?
My thoughts exactly! if there were no witnesses who could verify his dads version of the story, it opens up a lot of dark possibilities. My other thought (in another comment on this video) is that Church + Boy Scout adult members/leaders have a certain reputation for a reason. His silent and complete disappearance is easily explained if one or two adults who he was there with were responsible for it regardless of whether his dad was involved or not. I would hope that he and the other adults were thoroughly investigated, but I have my doubts…
Exactly. My interest is with the fishing pole. There was absolutely no reason to take it back to camp if the rest of the fishing equipment was already set up and in use where his father was fishing, and Garrett said he wanted to catch a fish for breakfast so why remove the rod? Why did his father not tell him to leave the rod where it was? And why was it not there at the fishing place even if Garrett went missing alone? Perhaps it got broken into a couple of pieces. But how could a broken fishing rod be explained away? It can't, so where to hide it if there's search dogs on land? In the lake bed with rocks on top to stop it floating.
In the third case with Chris, one thing that struck me as odd is how the co-workers claimed they were all walking 50 yards apart--for no reason for the job apparently. If you think about that it's weird. Why wouldn't they be walking together, talking, etc as co-workers usually would do. I think it's more likely the other 3 were walking together and Chris maybe didn't get along with the others. To me suspicion lays with the co-workers, IMHO.
I think there's a lot of logic that points to the coworkers
I think co-workers, as a stupid joke slipped him some mind tripping drug. And he flipped out, not knowing what was happening. Hallucinations that terrified him, would have sent him running. Hence the torn fabric on fence, one boot off.
Even if co-workers went after him, that would of only panicked him more.
The fight or flight adrenaline rush would of made him a marathon runner.
What adds to my thinking it was them is what is said about their version of what happened. And the weird 1st choice call.
I think they were hoping he would come back once the effect wore off.
Ironically, it is the assumptions made about the co-workers that make it a "Missing 411" case. The 411 part stands for information. Dialing 411, similar to dialing 911, is a call that can be made for information - for example if excavating, you can often call 411 to identify if and where underground pipes or electrical lines are so your excavator does not come into contact with those lines. So "Missing 411" stands for "Missing Information" in a more "catchy-type" of title. If the co-workers were involved, the information to prove it is still "missing" and has yet to be identified.
But what are the odds that none of the 3 have come clean? These are just coworkers after all. We can't assume they're childhood friends. There's no way 3 guys decide to kill a coworker and place a boot and change around the barbwire fence
@@AngelMGordon Here's the thing, in a surveying job, there could have been a reason they were walking 50 yards apart. I do not know what exactly they were surveying, but that could have been the companies protocol for how they 'survey'. Even then, if they state they were all walking 50 yards apart...considering where they were, they would have noticed something happening to him from that distance. If he had a panic attack, ran-off, stripped, they would have most likely seen it and definitely have heard it (panic attacks, especially extreme ones where someone strips and runs away wont typically be quiet).
There was either the extremely slim chance that they were completely out of sight and visual range of Chris (not likely at just 50 yards) at the exact moment he went into a fugue state, where Chris remained seemingly silent and out of visual range of everyone that would have had the potential to see him if he had ran into the street or into a developed area. Or much much more likely, there were a few psychos working that job, thought Chris wasn't a person who would be missed or looked for, conspired with each other to take him out and then ????. The only reason I could see them wanting to kill would be to take his tools. Tools can be expensive, they're some of the most stolen items in stores and off of persons. But remember that his tools were found, seemingly placed somewhere by him. Then there is also the boots and piece of cloth.
Perhaps they thought they could outsmart police by setting some of his cloths/boots in areas that could throw off an investigation (such as a ripped cloth on a barbed wire fence)...then they stashed the tools for later pickup, realized that this had gotten out of hand and called the police, lied, saying they had searched for him. But that is such an insane and outlandish plot to simply steal tools off of some kid that I dont even think the most methed-up'd southern land surveyor would agree to it.
Me and my buddy were in northeast Georgia, way back in there, near the AT, and we had an... experience. We had a German Shepard with us that became extremely frightened, and the woods were silent. We both felt like we were being watched, but being from that area, we were both heavily armed, he with an auto 12 and me with an AR. Eventually, whatever it was moved on. That was 15 years ago, and I haven't been back in the Chattahoochee National Forest
As far as the intelligence question, I believe it's people who are intellectually impaired and people who are intellectually above average in advance going missing so much because they are both prone to think they can handle things that they cannot, for instance going on an adventure they're not prepared for and impaired person won't think of the danger whereas an overly intelligent person may think they can survive anything because of their intellect. Both tend to get bored mentally for different reasons of course but with similar results, and it results in death by misadventure.
So basically there both intellectually floured.
One of the saddest things about Garrets case is that as a kid, raised Mormon, I heard that tale what must have been a dozen times in church talks and it was always used as some kind of metaphor so I thought it was a parable, not a real story. The case itself is bizarre knowing it's true
I suspect the dad
As an exmo watching this video, I could imagine the talks and F&T meetings where this story/child was mentioned…
One of the reasons people may be found dead in an area already searched could be "terminal burrowing", or "hide-and-die syndrome" which occurs in the final stages of hypothermia. Those affected will enter small, enclosed spaces to die. It is often associated with paradoxical undressing.
After death the body may be dragged out by scavaging animals or flushed out by melting snow or rain.
This tendency to hide away may also explain why people fail to use mobile phones .
Another sympton of hypothermia is a surge in adrenaline which cause people to move off, often running, in random directions. This may explain why people are found in illogical locations at some distance from their last known location.
I think Missing 411 is 10% actual weird shit happening and 90% people reacting badly to their surroundings/situation/criminal activity.
Willing to bet u didn't read one book. Why do you 90% is pep/bad reaction and criminal activity
More like missing person cases in general are 90% explainable and 10% missing 411
@@aaronl5072I haven’t read one book but I know if you do some half ass research on him you’ll learn that he’s a liar. He tries to fit every disappearance into his “profile” and leaves out very important points and information. He also implies that it’s supernatural or Bigfoot while saying he doesn’t speculate. There have been multiple people who have tore apart his cases and found a lot of discrepancies and bs. I loved him at first, but after digging I don’t trust him at all. He’s trying to sell books and he has his whole community buffaloed. He was accused of fraud and he’s a liar. He was never a “detective”, he was a traffic cop and he was punished for selling fraudulent autographs. He edits his stories to make them seem weird or connected and exploits missing people for his own gain while acting like he’s a hero for bringing this bogus information to light. He’s a fraud and the lowest form of human for doing it.
I think there are too many anomalies in the cases he screens for to say that they are standard missing people with a percentage of certainty like you’re proposing. Most missing persons cases are just that but the ones he is choosing have unexplainable details.
💯
Garrett went missing in about the length of my dads' drive way, So This would be like going missing while walking to get the mail but there was a block party happening and no one saw me reach the mail box. That is shockingly small space to vanish!
paulides wonders why the dogs cant find the victims then goes on to describe how 5 foot of snow fell inbetween them going missing and the search party showing up in a massive blizzard
You are completely fair to him.
I like his work but I also am skeptical about him.
Not a negative skepticism. Just not completely convinced.
Nothing wrong with healthy skepticism.
Just totally dismiss him he's now a known fraudster.
@@SlickArmorhow so
@@screamingseal4805 what do you mean how so did you not just watch the video?
not convinced of what though?
Kenny Veech is filming himself and everywhere he goes....then he finds a gem of a cave with weird properties but forget to take even a picture...that is not making any sense. He had debts and about to be evicted...he made himself disappear.
After seeing his girlfriends interview, I think the same, he knew he wasnt coming back home. And I believe his M-cave story too, I wish he wouldve had the strength to check it out before punching out.
@@janemiettinen5176
I wish he would have had help and not checked out at all.
He didn’t film everything he did at all, hence why it’s weird.
I think Kenny "died suddenly" before it was cool...unfortunately it was at his own hand! He was trying to get on Shark Tank because he was running out of money and, I'm guessing, couldn't handle the thought of working another soul crushing, meaningless job, just to be able to live on this Earth!! I COMPLETELY understand!! He seemed like a great human that just wanted to be free...I don't blame him, for I too, don't fit into this society!! I've just been fortunate enough to have family to fall back on when I end up in a soul crushing, mechanical job, and I lose my mind after 3 months and bail...If you've made it this far, I have a feeling I know where his remains can be found!! If you watch his last video, he gets to a certain location and stops to really showcase the area...as if saying, look at this, look at this, and then points his camera towards what looks like a little cave on the left side of his path of travel that day, and says, not going up there...He then walks a little further down, points his camera up this draw, I guess you'd call it, on the right side, and says something to the effect of, this is the kind of place that I find MY skulls! Not, skulls, or animal skulls, or ram skulls, but MY skulls...I think he was telling us where he planned on doing himself in... I'm in Wisconsin or else I'd go check myself...
Yea there was never an M cave. Thats why he didnt film it before he checked out. Not hard to figure out guys.
I think alot of people dont want to believe that there is anything we cant understand/control or dont want to believe in a higher power at work of some kind. There are people out there who will fight tooth and nail to deny things directly in their faces, let alone anything "supernatural". Fear of the unknown has a very strong influence on some people and the powers that be.
I've experienced some strange shit out in the woods and I'm not a ghost guy or a conspiracy theorist but I have seen stuff I've never told a soul about because I didn't want to sound crazy
What did you see? Im not joking, and wont call you crazy.
You should DEFINITELY WRITE IN TO ONE OF THESE CHANELS THAT COVER THOSE STORIES. Steve stockton does the missing people mysteries and you can email him anonymously. It helps to talk about it. Also there’s no one from his channel who would ever doubt it! I have lots and lots of experiences myself. My son has just a couple he never told me about and it fucked him up real bad. He cried and whole like I’ve never ever ever seen ever when finally opening up to me about it (he was 18 when telling me but the 3 experiences he had were when he was 10-12.) not saying you’re young or it happened at that age, just that he is adamantly and fully against ghosts and conspiracies and paranormal.
There’s simply nothing someone can say paranormal or unexplainable that I don’t believe due to my own absolutely unbelievable experiences.
Regarding Kenny - why has no one observed that heat stroke is a thing - that can cause brain damage, regardless of your skills. The *average* low temp at night during Dec-Feb. is 20.7° F - idk what part of year he went missing, but hypothermia is absolutely possible in the desert. IJS Following his “planned” route & not finding him could simply mean he strayed way tf off from that path once he got out there.
Garrett: They didn’t hear him make a sound b/c he didn’t. I’d bet my next paycheck It was someone he knew or someone who put on a scouting uniform or something for the express purpose of preying on the scouts (who notoriously take troops to the same locations year after year), lured him off the path (he started down the wrong one; maybe b/c he saw someone/thing) or simply knocked him on the head and made off with him before the alarm was raised.
*Anywhere* children are gathered (especially where they may be briefly unattended) is a place that is going to draw predators.
I've attempted that route on Rainier twice in July, and both were disastrous. It's not uncommon for climbers to take on that route, typically it's specifically for those conditions in the context of taking on more challenging climbs on other mountains in the future. If you end up on that route and are not a competent climber, you'll experience some problems. It's a very challenging environment. I've dug in and slept 7 nights on that face. 1st , we got hit with an ice storm, and it lasted 4 days. The next go around, my partner badly sprained his ankle, and between the unfavorable weather and the injury, we slept over 3 nights before decending safely. Ranier is deceptive too. All the tourist stuff gives the false impression of safety on the mountain. Granted, not the most dangerous mountain, but it's not hard for one to lose their life up there if they're complacent.
They didn't find his body though, right? It's not unusual to die on the mountain, it's the circumstances surrounding it that make it weird.
One thing I will say about bad weather during the search. If someone or something was deliberately predating on these people, the best time to do it is shortly before bad weather reducing the chances of law enforcement. I say something because animals are quite intelligent they may not be considering law enforcement but if they know bad weather is coming which many animals seem to, it’s possible they may be panic buying like people do, stocking up on food just in case. Potentially knowing prey will be scarce during and after bad weather so take what you can while you can.
I thought the same thing, but the way you said it LOL panic buying at the supermarket before a storm
@@brendawaggoner7555 makes logical sense but it’s whether you could prove animals tend to hunt erratically before storms.
You probably could easily observe that behaviour if it is the case. Follow multiple predators from multiple species in multiple storm prone areas, follow and observe over a year or two and keep an eye on long range weather reports and predictions.
I've crunched a lot of numbers on the disappearances, which is frustratingly hard due to bad reporting/record keeping.
But from the available information, it seems like wildland disappearances occur only marginally around bad weather, but are found significantly less frequently when they do before or during it.
Which would make total sense without accounting for external causes.
As for disappearances, the bad weather is a hazard in itself, both for navigation and physically. As for searches, bad weather obviously tends to complicate search, render some useful tools unavailable and destroy evidence.
One of David’s profile points is “of German ancestry”, which cracks me up every time because German is the one of the top ancestral countries of origin in the US.
The reason no one was worried about a stranger being at the boy scout camp is because he wasn't a stranger to them. I have an extremely strong suspicion it was one of the scout leaders, which is why he didn't scream. Yes, the Mormons are protective of their communities, but they're also really good at keeping anything that might look bad for them hidden. There's an entire proven cover up and denial of decades long SA in the organization that has been proven in the courts. He was the unfortunate in a long list of victims of a predator hiding in plain sight. The BSA in Utah and Idaho are strongly tied together and it's run by the high ranking members of both organizations. Don't believe anything they say, or don't say AT. ALL.
I feel that Davis took all the stories he collected and just distilled them down to the truly weird ones, it would make one hell of a book. Instead it's a lot of fodder with gold nuggets randomly and sporadically dispersed.
DP basically looked for cases where the success rate was low, or nonexistent, in regards to the performance of scent dogs, and SAR teams, and then claimed it was 'weird'. The guy, DP, honestly wants his viewers to think that dogs and SAR are suppose to be a hundred percent effective or someting is amiss. Pertty much all of his 'profile points' are BS.
@@deerichardz typical response from someone who hasn't looked into any of his work. Literally you sound stupid with your comment. Had he not found all these cases there would be no channels on TH-cam dealing with them apart from fake creepy pastas. Why don't you go find some of those since facts are too much for you
@@hughjunit2503 Your trolling is pertty sub par buddy.
@@deerichardz funny how Dave has even interviewed different SAR people and they have said the same exact thing. Dogs find people, and when they can't pick up a scent then there wasn't any to start with. Hahahahaha 🤣🤣. I feel bad for anybody lost with you looking for em
@@hughjunit2503 The last time DP attended a SAR conference, NASAR of 2012, he was basically laughed out of the hall. He hasn't been at an SAR event since.
I think the kraken is a good example of what our ancestors would have thought to be supernatural that today we understand could have just been a giant squid and it is entirely possible for such "monsters" to exist in the ocean.
Look up U.S.S. Stein.
Beware the butt of the kraken.
Did they think kraken was supernatural? Show a medieval peasant a 20 metre squid and they'll say "Yup, Kraken." Unicorns were just Rhinos, after all.
@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts there is no any proof for people they misunderstood something when they saw something.
you are bassically saying that people that day didnt know anything about animals ok lol
Kudos to you for taking your research so seriously and trying to find out the real truth !
A lot of youtubers simply repeat what they have heard elsewhere, or even invent or embellish stories to get more attention.
As a former journalist, I hate this, and I also resent it when people don't give their sources and don't give credit to other creators, but simply steal their content.
About the weird Wikipedia criticism of primary sources in the beginning, it's especially odd because Primary sources aren't solely a scientific term, it's taught in year middleschool in Europe at least, usually in connection to source criticism.
It's basic knowledge about how to judge sources??
The ACTUAL issue is that the Pilates guy is over valuing WITNESS TESTIMONY, which is famously unreliable.
It should be common practice for camping/ hiking groups to EACH carry a laser pointer in their pack for emergencies & ONLY emergencies! The kind strong enough to leave a thick beam across the night sky (cheap as $20). Like a giant light saber across the black sky.
Great idea
I think many of these cases have explanations I can think of. I think people who don't spend a lot of time out in nature see things as weird, where there just isn't anything. The Rainer hike, could have unclipped to go to the bathroom (Don't know why he'd do it, but possible and then fell into a ice crevasse, of which there are many up there. ) The AT hiker I found very strange. There is no where along the AT where you would need to carry 12 days of food. The longest stretch is the 100 mile wilderness, the first day of which is a bit tough, but the rest of it isn't that hard, so maybe 6, 7 days if you're slow. Most of the trail it's about 3-4 days between towns. Also, if you went off the trail you would hit a road all along the AT within a day, maybe 2 at most. There are places along the PCT and CDT that you could definitely find yourself out in the middle of no where, but not on the AT. Actually with very little effort I found she actually hid from rescuers, which makes much more sense.
Being over looked after people searched an area is not at all unusual. A few feet away at a wrong angle and you can walk right past something or someone on the ground.(I have hiked about 6000 miles of forest and mountains. I will say in the desert I would definitely say he would have likely had to gone into a cave. (I've hiked 3000 miles of desert).
People step off the trail to go to the bathroom, and get lost. It's not unusual. And as much as people tend to think of nature as some loving mother figure the reality is she will try to kill you every day. My friends and I always say Mother nature is Metal as fuck.
Grizzlys can be quiet by the way, even trained it's possible for one to sneak up on you. Let's say you were listening to the sounds of lapping water from a lake and a little wind. I have seen so many bears that I've lost count, and I once had a black bear appear about 15 feet from me before I noticed him. And he noticed me actually. haha we both scared each other that day. He ran off which is normal for a black bear, startling a grizzly is something no one wants to do, they are deadly fast and can be aggressive if startled. People seriously have no idea how fast bear are.
Were there strange instances here, sure. Do I think there is anything weird going on in our National Forests, no. BTW, I have hiked through Crater Lake, and it would be possible to hike that far in snow with regular shoes, but it would definitely be a strange thing to do. In my 10k miles of hiking i will say the strangest experience that ever happened to me was around Crater Lake, no idea what it is about that place, but it's definitely a little weird.
I do think people tend to overestimate their ability to find things in the wilderness, regardless of how many people look. You could be a few feet from lost equipment or even remains and never know, even in "open" places like clearings or deserts. Happens alllll the time. Someone vanishing with no trace is something to take note of sure, but not necessarily proof of anything supernatural.
While I agree bears are absolutely capable of sneaking up on someone, regardless of their knowledge of the animal (being an expert does not mean you have an internal ping notification when a bear is nearby), I don't think it was a bear attack in this case. Both because I am inclined to trust the local bear expert and because it really doesn't sound like a bear predation to me either. But it absolutely makes sense that he could have passed from natural causes (like a heart attack) and been scavenged by predators after the fact. I would frankly be more shocked if a body left in that environment for weeks was *untouched* by scavenging. It would explain the lack of struggle.
I do think there are some cases that have more than meets the eye, but frankly, a lot of them sound like plausible tragedies of the natural world to me. We tend to underestimate just how helpless a lone person really is in nature.
I really detest the phrase "can't be explained", when the infinitely more reasonable thing to say is "hasn't been explained".
EVERYTHING can be explained. Cause and effect is an all-encompassing principle, and makes no exceptions. Just because you personally do not have all the information does not mean that there is no explanation, and it certainly doesn't mean that the only possible explanation is supernatural.
Eric's case from a mountaineering perspective really isn't too confusing. He may have accidentally tied a slipknot or some other knot into his carabiner, where if it was weighted, instead of holding tight it would come loose. He also could have accidentally unclipped the carabiner and slipped, or have used a non-locking carabiner. With all these possibilities, I see the most reasonable option being him slipping and falling, the knot coming untied or the carabiner opening, and then him sliding down the mountain into a crevasse or maybe all the way down to the forest, his pack falling off in the forest. He also could have slipped and then gone to the ice cave for shelter, and died there. Accidents like that happen a lot, especially in rock climbing, but it could have happened here too. With 5 foot visibility and these conditions there was pretty much no way they would all make it out alive. The other two are lucky to be alive. A good way to compare climbing Rainier in 5 foot visibility is that it's like betting your life on the Browns winning the Super Bowl. You'd have to be the king of all morons to do that.
The one thing that often gets left out of these stories which kind of irks me a little bit, Is the fact that when you're out in the woods especially more rugged remote parts of A hiking trail, Not necessarily cleared out or well taken care of, There could be a body laying 10 feet from you and you just wouldn't see it. Also I know of plants that mess with a dog's ability to track, They are all over the United States But mostly on the East Coast. Where I live in the Adirondack mountains we have had hikers and hunters go missing From areas that would seem relatively flat or not your standard term of rugged And just never be found. Thomas Messick for example, A lot of people don't believe he was ever even in those woods to begin with, I believe he was And I also believe that he was accidentally shot and then buried in those woods. And yet he was a missing 411 case. We've had little kids go missing all around this area and it never makes the news, We've had hikers just disappear off the face of the Earth and it never makes the news. If you wanna find something strange come to the Adirondacks. It's bigger than any other National Park in the United States, There are some mountain trails that only get hiked by about 5 people a year, There are areas that are absolutely untouched by humans. One area for example I found a fully intact group of lean tos 28 miles from any trail, In an area that I just walked into to see if I could find any bear. The only markers that were left in that area were from me to get back to the trail. If there are wild men that's exactly where you're gonna find them. Either here or in the appalachians. I would recommend for your next into thin air that you go back to the area where Thomas Messick went missing do some research and find some of the Real weird ones.
Thanks! Well done investigative talk. It’s good to see that we have entities such as The Lore Lodge researching the worlds mysteries.
He's 50/50 for me. Leaving things out or putting them in to make things more mysterious to sell books and docs is common but that also means its a conflict of interest. Its fun to listen to but I also watch more podcasts on it then just his works to see if there is debunking or filling in of gaps, etc.
As someone who actually has a better time navigating the woods and outdoors than i do in cities. There really is something unnatural about certain areas or times out there. I am lucky and very fortunate to say I've never once gotten lost in the woods around the farms and acreages I called home. But there was one time when my Great Pyrenees (big ass farm dog) made cries and sounds that i truly hope i never hear again, i went immediately into fight or flight as that dog was my only living companion in the area for miles and for months at a time. I have mental health issues and at the time was 17 and owned no firearms but had a collection of replica swords and functional swords as well. I grabbed my most functional sword and sprinted into an area where my dog was clearly in the most serious peril I'd ever heard him in, which would not have been coyotes, bears, or anything of the sort as he's dealt and handled all of that before and never once made sounds like that. I only remember returning home with my dog in tow. He was ok with no visible wounds, but everything in between is still a complete blank, and this is the one and only time that's ever happened to me in my entire life to this day. I remember being disoriented, dizzy, unreasonably exhausted, and when i got to bed, i passed out immediately and slept for almost 2 days. I'm still unsure what happened, but something very wrong went down that night.
Wow had a very similar experience with my dog her name was Matilda, shortened to Tilda she was a boxer this happened when I was 15 I am now 48 never have talked about, but it came rushing back reading your post
In the case of Kenny Veach, I'm inclined to agree with his girlfriend. He'd been having suicidal thoughts and depression for years prior to his disappearance after finding his father who'd killed himself. He also definitely had no desire to go find that cave again and film it because he didn't even take his camera. He probably knew the area so well, he went somewhere no one would find him and suffer the way he did after finding his father's dead body. It's very tragic, but probably not supernatural
Appreciated the nuanced analysis and for pointing out the inconsistency to a degree, of him saying hes neutral and sticks to facts, ha, yet implies a couple of strong possibilities. At the same time, as a former cop, to leave out some of the facts you've brought to light is odd, coupled with his little issue when he was working, just makes me think of him in a different way now, thank you Aidans
He could be making things up about David so he can get more subscribers and more TH-cam money. I wonder how much of his TH-cam money goes to any organization or donate to homeless shelters, or if he ever donates to help starving kids?
Probably not.
Hi Aiden, great video, as usual. Thanks for covering this topic with objectivity. It’s easier to believe that the boogeyman is out there grabbing people than it is that these people are randomly getting lost and the authorities just don’t care. For some people, it’s more about feeling safer. We are taught to believe that if the bad thing happens, someone will come and save us. Sadly, we are wrong. I enjoyed this video. Thanks again. Brenda P
As an aussie people can easily go missing in the desert. We have found people decades after they went missing and they were just a few hundred metres off highways in a car. It's not normal close to town, but there aren't many towns in the desert. On the open road you're much more likely to have people missing for a long time.
Well done. Your channel directed me to Enigma's. I've always been fascinated by the strange and weird. I've had small, inexplicable things happen to me in my life. However, it's not that rational explanation can't be implied. So many of the random experiences in life are like a frame in the shutter of a camera. Events happen so abruptly that we only have that still image in our linear minds. These were people in time. They had their own private lives compounded with a known personality. Pictures and here-say. Who to say what external demons they had or how motivated they were to accomplish something unmentionable to their loved ones.
That being said.
I believe that thing is out there.
A eucalyptus forest in the middle of the Aussie summer can be uncanny. There might be no sound except cicadas- and sometimes not even that. Several times in my life I have felt so freaked out by it that I know, if I had been alone, I would have just turned around and started running. I imagine that some of these stories start like that - a moment's unreasoned panic and then a wrong turn and then it's all metaphorically downhill from there.
Mind you, I think that the most frightening kind of wood to be in is a really dense pine plantation - they are just all kinds of wrong.
Garrett's disappearance is really a weird one. Boy Scouts know how to search for people . The dad not following the buddy system is kinda weird, especially given what we know about Garrett, but sometimes it happens.
The BSA has been involved in a child abuse lawsuit literally got sued into oblivion. As a former childhood scout member and raised LDS I have no doubt that it could.have been a member of his immediate community.
No real animal predator signs. No body in creek.... no trace... screams abduction.
Plenty of cases of child abuse have been covered up by the church community too
It's important to remember that Boy Scouts can still go missing, they're not invincible
@@Truthisscarierthanfiction Had no idea. Thanks
I believe it wasn't an official boy scouts outing, just happened to be all boy scouts using their camp
Lmfao no, Boy Scouts do not know how to search for people. They teach out of a decades old paperback and tie knots. They preach far more than they practice.
The profile is the worst because it mixes up really weird things (like ending up a ridiculous distance away) with things that just explain why we never found them (like bad weather stopping the search) or both (dogs losing the scent, which is often bizarre but also explains not finding the person). That's not the same thing. Stuff like bad weather makes it less weird that they were never found, not more.
But why every time they start a search it happens in all those cases
@@twilightparanormalresearch186 The thing is, there could be 100 cases where the search goes well for every time there's bad weather and the dogs lose the scent. But we wouldn't hear about those cases. We're selectively told about cases where the search failed.
Thanks for posting the excellent video. I am a modern Apache engineer who was born and raised on a rural reservation to hunt, fish, and hike in the remote desert and mountains. I found your analysis to be pragmatic, objective, and nuanced. I agree that David Paulides is genuinely sincere in his analysis with occasional mistakes likely due to the sheer volume of cases he analyzes and some degree of confirmation bias. I subscribe to David's channel too and have seen his videos. He reminds me of cops I had known in the Bay Area who had good relations with Native Americans. I used to play softball with those guys when I was a young summer intern at the DOE of the East Bay back in 89.
I did go to college at the U. of Notre Dame in South Bend, IN as an undergraduate. I am familiar with Mishawaka. I also studied hypoxia in graduate school for biomedical engineering. I lived in CO for 4 years and ran a 10k on a mountain trail at Vail when I was young. Could it be that the physician got disoriented by hypoxia or high altitude sickness. South Bend is much lower in altitude, and it's flat. Someone from that area would struggle badly hiking on steep, mountainous terrain overwhelmed with snow, slippery rocks, and thin air. It would have been easy to get disoriented, especially if he drank caffeine with coffee before going out. Caffeine elevates the likelihood of hypoxia at high altitude. So does alcohol.
When I was in a grade 12 Anthropology Class I was told that I could not comment on an issue because I had personal experience and was considered a primary source. Only the textbook and its foreign writer could have an informed opinion on the matter.
The textbook was wrong...
All textbooks outside math and science are wrong. ESPECIALLY history
I think Garrett wanted to go fishing alone and it wasn't a mistake that he didn't take the right turn back to the camp. So when he was corrected he realized he was being supervised and left the trail when eyesight was broken.
As a kid I'd idealized the notion of the solitary fishing trip, being alone with one's thoughts or whatever. I did the same exact thing, got bored, and went back. I returned to tell the tale, no one being the wiser, Garrett didn't - what happened to him I can't say, but it explains the fishing pole and why he could "disappear" despite the nearness of the camp and of supervision.
So you're saying it's aliens?
I really like this theory about him wanting to fish alone I would totally understand that. I wish there was more answers.
that's what i was thinking. it's weird that he would forget about the single turn in the path.
Honestly I feel that this is all a ploy by Paulides to get people more invested in investigating missing people.
Give it a veil of mystery, get people interested and talking, and boom, you got a movement demanding that law enforcement and forestry agencies take greater responsibility and are more publicly answerable.
Paulides does what he does to sell books.
He also sells books, he’s just trying to sell his books imo 😅
@@clemsonblokeexactly
The hardest part about reading 411 theories is that there’s often a fairly obvious solution to the mystery (even with loose ends) but it’s just too sad to comprehend. The idea that a child or even an experienced outdoorsman can die in such a gruesome fashion in this day and age is a really difficult concept to grasp. We want to believe that something so terrible can only be a supernatural occurrence.
Naah
Yes because I turn my back to another adult turn around and they are gone with no tracks, yes because they totally ran off
No. It's about the details. Everyone knows that people get lost or hurt and die in the woods all the time, no matter their level of experience. Certain cases have very strange details. That's what people are responding to.
This, yeah. The number of times I've heard "but they were an experienced outdoorsman, they would never do X or Y" as proof is mind-blowing. People...aren't always rational. In fact they often aren't, especially if they get scared. And accidents happen all the time. We can never really be certain what another person would do in a certain situation unless we've personally seen them in that situation before.
How about the ones never found
Love your more academic approach. I'll add if there are 2 things that make a person vulnerable in the wild they're overconfidence, (the gifted), and any kind of disability, both extremes being Paulides criteria. Average people have the advantage in wilderness.
Book smarts won't save you, common sense will keep you alive
34:51 Three shots fired rapidly is the outdoorsman signal for needing help. Also two fires would be far more noticeable if anyone was searching for him, especially for searchers in an aircraft.
I feel like the ones found higher up might be dragged up by predators. Big cats can carry a lot of weight, or even bears. But if they don't find any animal marks, that's weird
If you are lost, and the only searchers you see are helicopters, you are more likely to head uphill to increase your chance of being spotted. Foliage is also less the higher up you go.
Dogs would have found the blood scent
@@kitfisto1827 I've often found it odd that people think a missing person heading up hill is so unlikely. I've never been lost in the woods, but I think if I was I might want to try to find higher ground to get a better view of the area, or to have a better chance of being seen. Like, my thought process would probably be to get higher up, then climb a tree to look around, maybe tie some clothing to the branches to catch attention.
For Americans wondering about the RCMP, I've only had a few dealings with them and in all three cases they did nothing.
1.) My mom was attacked in a bar by her ex-boyfriend. The police came, made a report, filed a restraining order and then any time he was stalking her, she was told to go somewhere else.
2.) I was the recipient of a driveby shooting (nobody was hurt so calling myself a victim seems dramatic?). A neighbour called the RCMP and they came, asked if we had beef with anyone, had a cop camp out the rest of the night aaaaaand that was it. Case closed.
3.) I lived in a rough area and there was a lot of homeless people. One of them had been motionless in the park for 20 minutes so I called the non emergency to ask how to get someone to check on him because I was not comfortable checking on a strange man alone and basically had to talk the cop into sending someone while he gave me shit for not doing it myself.
I did know an RCMP officer personally that took his job seriously and was a solid dude BUT I think the RCMP just has a culture of not giving a crap.
Good we need folks in our life's. Good folks make life safer
@Not PC In most cases I would have, but he had been moaning earlier and then hadn't moved for a few hours and thought leaving a dead homeless guy next to the playground was probably a bad idea. Plus, the ONLY time I see cops in that part of town is at Tim Horton's or in homeless camps so I figured they'd want to clear out the park if the guy was just asleep and I was being paranoid 😅
@Not PC Oooh, that makes sense. My neighbourhood at the time was in the transitional phase where there were kids AND homeless people/druggies. I'm not sure if kids play there any more but the times I've driven through it looks like they've cleaned the area up a bit
Is the one decent RCMP officer you knew a 6'6" biker named Ken by any chance? Because we might both know the single decent Mountie who actually gives a shit.
Back when we played D&D together he always complained about how useless and lazy everyone he worked with was. In game and in reality, he was always Lawful Good.
@@neuralmute it was not but Ken sounds awesome!
Well Bobby idk what happened to you bless your heart❤ I was born in 1958 I’m 64 yrs old. Wish you were around till this day!
This has been my favorite Lore Lodge and Missing 411 video yet, thank you Aiden
I have read a lot of these cases and while I understand occams razor and plausible explanations. I think that the sheer number of cases that fit the last two profile sets is possible evidence of something weird. Im sure a meta-analysis knocks off a number of cases but the weird ones are so freaking weird. Not to mention all the SARS out looking. Something is going on...
Nothing weird happening and the profile is a laughable joke. Study "missing person behavior", "terminal burrowing" and "paradoxical undressing". DP is a conman.
I used to get lost on our own family property. As an adult, I tried walking in a nature preserve once and got horribly turned around. I feared I would have to spend the night in there. After trying to navigate for hours, I finally found my way back out to the parking area. I have never gone "hiking" again. I walk in malls.
You must have the perception and reasoning abilities of a potato.
I guess there are proper marked trails in the US as well? Otherwise visit Switzerland 🇨🇭 a country so small that Civilization is never further than 10 miles away. Bad weather however can kill you even here on high altitude
Having spent most of my life out in the real wilderness, I can't help but favor the idea that something weird is going on.
Because you want to believe or what?
@runswithraptors personal experiences. I think it's interesting how the majority of people who form rock solid opinions about this stuff don't even go outside much, let alone out in the true wilderness 😅
Weird as in supernatural?
@@alikarol3this!