How to Recover from a Low Science GPA and Low MCAT | Application Renovation (S1 E2)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- What can you do to turn things around and get into medical school when your science GPA is below 3.0 and your MCAT is below 500? Today on Application Renovation, you'll get to watch as I talk with a student about the steps she needs to take to recover and earn a med school acceptance.
In each episode of Application Renovation, I talk to students who have applied to medical school but didn't get in. We go through the student's application together, and I help identify what they need to do to improve and get accepted when reapplying. To apply to be featured on Application Renovation, fill out the form at www.application....
This series is sponsored by Next Step Test Prep Admissions Consulting (nextsteptestpr.... I'm the Curriculum Director for this program, and I help screen every advisor they hire to make sure they're giving the best advice to premeds. If you need premed advising, use the promo code "MSHQ" to save some money and let them know I sent you.
In this episode, I talk with a student who took a lot of time off in her undergraduate years after experiencing deaths of loved ones. She also struggled with physics and never took chemistry. This resulted in both a low science GPA and a low MCAT score. She applied to medical school last year but didn't end up submitting any secondary apps due to her low MCAT score. (She basically pulled out of the application cycle.)
We go over her entire med school application, and I tell her which details are going to need improving before medical schools are likely to take a chance on accepting her. There is definitely a path forward for her to get to medical school, but it's not a quick one. I also address various other questions she has about her application.
Application Renovation is a part of the Meded Media network. Find more great premed content at mededmedia.com.
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i like how these are true low gpa and mcat. Not the bullsht so many other youtubers say is low (i.e. 3.4 gpa and 507 mcat). This is what people need to see.
mike school true
Do you think a 3.3 is low?
I agree. I saw one TH-camr once post a video on how she got in with a “low” gpa of 3.0 her freshmen year and then culminated her undergraduate studies with a 3.54. I got mad at her lol. I was like, okay stop it you clearly have a pretty good gpa, sure it isn’t perfect but it’s good. So stop the crap. 😂 It seemed like it was a clickbait video.
@@DollyDomDom I don’t think that’s bad. It’s low but not bad. I think you can do really well on the MCAT and with a solid and genuine story to explain your grades have a good chance. Like I ended up with a 3.248 cumulative and scgpa of 3.043. I feel like this is bad but then again, I am a disadvantage student who struggled tremendously while in college mainly because I did not have much access to resources that would allow me to see whether a career in medicine was right for me. Likewise, I don’t know if being disadvantage with these stats is even going to cut it for me lol. Also, both of my parents barely completed grade school and so navigating this process all on my own has been a tremendous challenge. I know that many students are first generation college students just like me but I feel that my story is unique enough to tell and embrace.
@@brayan9645 thank you ❤️🙏🏾
this is hard to watch but informative.
This just goes to show how there are no shortcuts when it comes to going to medical school. You have to work hard in ALL areas (undergraduate, mcat, extracurricular, etc) and not just try to excel in one.
100% I have had an idea for how to show this for a while. I need to make it!!
Thank you so much for being this transparent. True definition of the GOAT mentor.
not sure about the GOAT, but I'll take it. I'm glad it helps!
@@MedicalSchoolHQ your channel is one of the few that cuts the small-talk and gets down to the brass tacks.
GOAT 🐐 greatest of all time 👊🏾
@@Reeces_Allure thanks I have been wondering what this Goat thing is. Ive been thinking of a scape goat and was totally confused. Now that I think of it that trinni song Ram Goat - Fareal says its the greatest of all time.
Don't wanna be harsh but this sounds like a case of cutting corners and expecting good results. she just made way too many questionable decisions here:
-low BCPM (2.01 just isn't gonna cut it, and that doesn't even include all the prereqs)
-Didn't take chem/biochem/physics
-Assumed she can self study chem/biochem without the classes and do well on the MCAT
-Only applied to a few MD schools because she didn't take the chemistry/physics prereqs
-didn't apply DO (though 2.01/488 is definitely gonna hold her back there too)
-no compelling enough reason why she wants to go into medicine
-late submission
She simply wasn't ready to apply. She has so many red flags she either didn't research the process or she has gotten the same advice she's got here before but went ahead anyway because it's too much of a hassle to fix her application. Hopefully she listens to Dr Gray's advice and put in the work so she can turn it around and be successful.
@@Bigchubbyboy cap
Plus 9 yrs in undergrad and she knew since highschool she wanted to be a doctor you would expect her extracurriculars to at least be very thorough
This was very informative to watch. I am surprised she didn't know to take a post bac off bat. Everyone has a journey. This is part of her story.
Very eye opening for me. First semester taking science courses I got C/C+ this semester I raised those grades to B/B+. I’m really praying that next year I can get As. Trying to self study for physics and orgo this summer so I’ll be ready next year
Did u apply
This kind of hits hard. This applicant is me but younger and with a different set of hurdles. Low GPA, plenty of Ws, and the feeling I’m running out of time. Don’t give up! Put in the work that is required to do the job you want. It’s scary to take chances and spend money you don’t have. I’m working a full time engineering job while going to school. You can do it. We can do it. It will take time, you’ll question yourself everyday, and sometimes you’ll want to quit. This is the adversity that when it’s over will make your personal statement a breeze. I truly hope you do right by yourself and take the classes and challenge yourself. I can’t wait to see you in Med school!
Complete agree
hey just a question did you go to school part-time? While working I'm deciding how much course load to take while working as non-traditional pre-med? Thanks in advance!
In addition to the grade situation, it seems like she has some soul-searching to do about why she wants to be a physician.
Good observation
@Larenza Elbert don't be so mean, all she has to do is learn 4 years worth of science with flawless grades and get a good mcat score, we've all been there... as freshman...
Edit: and explain why she wants to be a doctor
Edit: alot of grandparents die when in college (especially in 8 years to grad), and taking a hiatus and competing in a pageant is not a logical response to the death of a close friend
@@DrBagel666 Yeah, I kinda feel like she didn’t know what she wanted to do in life and then remembered a teacher saying she would be a physician one day.
This girl is so resilient, I really really hope she gets into medical school. She really deserves it
Yes! I love her personality
I disagree. Her entire application is based on cutting corners and expecting to get in. She didn't want to take pre-req courses because some schools didn't require them. She thought she can just study O-chem and do well on the MCAT without taking a course. Didn't want to go back to community college because its too expensive when med school is 100x more expensive. Doesn't seem like resiliency, more like trying to take the easy way out
@@Bejman13 I agree. And honestly I know she said the familial deaths were “not an excuse,” they definitely are in all years except for her freshman year where she withdrew all her classes. She did well in her other non-science classes the years there were other familial deaths.
To echo some other comments, thanks for clarifying for everyone that a 488 &
Exactly, I don’t think people should be tossing their money down the drain knowing well enough that their stats will not cut it.
For some reason, I believe this was way more of a realistic and in-depth interview which fits a lot more people than the high stat students. Yes she is way lower stats-wise as an applicant, but I feel like she really symbolizes the majority. She also symbolizes the true disconnect for many applicants to the reality of pursuing this career path, it is through this document that tells whether this is a genuine endeavor or a superficial one. I'm now constantly improving my story (application); getting across why I really chose this as a career path in an honest, down-to-earth way. These videos are fantastic Dr. Gray
The majority? If you look at the stats, there are vanishingly few people who apply with stats this low. Of the 164,418 applicants to US med schools between 2019 and 2021 (3 years), 2789 had an MCAT in the same range as this woman's score with a GPA that is as good or worse than her. That is a very small fraction.
Is there a follow up? Did she get in somewhere? Is she working on these things? Is there more to her story?
@@KENNETHTXMMA yep! she studied hard and got her GPA + mcat score up and got in :) congrats! we all can do it if we put in the work and not give up.
@@karan_karan_karan Where did you find that information?
@@koolkittykat04 shhh!just believe it and u can do whatever u put ur mind to :)
Lol
I thought that chem and physics were the essentials for pre reqs?
Yeah I don't really know how you would omit taking gen chem and ochem and not expect to do poorly on the MCAT
This man has been such a enormous help to this 35+ applicant words can’t express!!!
Great! I'm glad. Let me know how else I can help!
Bad feels when you take 8 years of undergrad and learn zero science knowing you want to be a doctor
Just take out loans, Jane. Everyone's in debt anyway; the country itself owes trillions. Just take out loans.
You generally can’t get loans for post bacc degree.
@@Agtsmirnoff I wonder if she could take graduate school loans but again she needs to go back and take the undergraduate science courses. So yeah tough situation.
@@Agtsmirnoff Yes, you can. Im paying for my post bacc with loans
@@jenuineamazing7776 not FAFSA
😂🤣🤣😂😂
If she didn’t submit secondaries then she didn’t even try
And she didn't take chemistry and had a bad science gpa but applied anyway. The use of the word trying is a reach here.
These are such an amazing resource! As someone who is still a little over a year from applying, it's super helpful to actually see the applications, their format, structure, etc.
And if it helps relieve her time concerns, I'll be 31/32 when I apply :)! You got this!
Thanks, Dylan!!
As someone who applied to medical school twice and eventually got in on the second attempt, I really wish these videos were around when I applied... So many mistakes that I could have avoided with my first application (and some even on my second application)... Keep up the good work!
Same here. Took 4 tries, but the first 3 I was misguided
I’m so glad to see these cases. I’m a non-trad, and my college career has been a roller coaster so it’s good to see that I have chance 😩
Not to be harsh, but it sounds to me like someone wants to cut to the front of the line without putting in the work. I have a degree, and I have to go do a post-bacc because my degree had no science other than biology. That being said, I have been involved in science since an early age and could probably do well on the MCAT right now, and her wanting to just say "fuck it" and go ahead and apply and EXPECT to get in, is a slap in the face to everyone else who put in the work. No offense, but that app would go in the garbage if I were on the selection committee.
How do we become a student on the application renovation series? I need this so bad.
www.applicationrenovation.com/apply
I needed to see this.
Glad to help!
I am surprised how she got a secondary even
Do you prefer DIY/retaking courses to boost gpa over an SMP?
I just want to point out that when people have low stats like this the comments are very harsh. But when Dr. Gray reviews an applicant with high stats but no experience, no underlying theme, no apparent passions, everyone is so nice and says that they deserve to get in anyway even though those things are arguably easier to attain than high stats…
Take that applicant on application renovation with a 528 and 4.0 who didn’t get in anywhere, other than his stats his app was complete BS yet everyone was saying that they could see how passionate he was… sorry but 5 volunteering hours doesn’t scream passion to me
*takes Physics I & II at the same time, F & W*
Next class: *Judgment & Decision Making*
My transcript shows I also made similar bad decisions while in school... I still couldn't help but LOL at the irony of the ordering of these classes.
Med schools are going to sniff out her “bad judgement” issues. No one wants docs who make bad decisions over and over.
she was only 28 and worried about being too old. she has plenty of time
she also has to think if children and a family, if that's relevant to her
Shadowing is hella annoying lol but I finally got shadowing with a pediatrician and she was amazing. But I love the idea of a website.
I would love to know where she is now ! Im in a similar boat
!!! and I just wanted to say "Keep GOING" plant does seeds !!!
Dr. Gray, I thought my 3.5 overall and 3.4 science GPA were not competitive. It actually stopped me from applying back in 2015. Should I re-take courses ? Is there a time limit?
I’m in the same boat. I *think* these GPAs are low by MD standards but not lethal. I think a good MCAT score and overall above average application (as far as clinical experience, volunteering, **story**, etc) can definitely help outweigh this. I am getting an MS in biochemistry (not an SMP) and have a 4.0 but the overwhelming majority opinion seems to be that non-SMP master’s gpa makes no difference. I think you should go for it. You miss 100% of shots you don’t take! Would love to hear Dr. Gray’s input on it though! Best of luck to you!
Which science courses were low for you? Can you just retake those? You may need a postbacc or SMP
Is it possible to get in to med school with a GPA around a 3.2 with a good MCAT score?
Of course my dude, very possible
Anything is possible, good luck 👍
hoping the best for you! 💓
I know people who have done it it you’ll be next!
I just do not understand how you could think these stat are even worthy of applying. Do your research before you apply
3.0 minimum GPA and 510 MCAT I would say is enough to apply with confidence, but you shouldn’t even think of applying with anything under a 505
But you have to admire her ambition
This was a few years ago. Any updates? Did she do a postbacc? Did she go caribb?
Another great video! Keep posting more! I LOVE IT! So useful! ❤️
Thanks, Brodie!!! These are definitely resonating. I'll need to make more asap! :)
Where is she right now?
she didn't convince me at all, a lot of awkward silence too! I hope she finds her true passion!
Thank you Dr. Gray and thank you Jane for being transparent. I am on my second year undergrad right now and have some C’s and D on my math and science classes during my first year. This video gives me an insight on how to redeem myself from those poor grades.
Go back to school, put your head down, and get to workkkk
Hello,
Does being a medical interpreter count as clinical experience ?
Thank you
yes! Medical interpreting is great because you're interacting with patients and doctors!
Dr. Gray and Dr. Wright in several Ask the Dean segments have mentioned that medical interpreting is considered clinical.
I would love to have 1 on 1 with you Dr. Gray! I am in a very low GPA range but I finally am getting good grades now but even if I put 3 years in my post bac (DIY) I would never be able to get a 3.0.
Dr. Gray, at 5:00, she mentioned her college transcropt reading 3.5 but once she submitted to AMCAS it became a 3.2. Why is that? Love this series btw!
Also, most undergrads will replace your original grade if you retake a course. AMCAS includes every single grade, even if you’ve retaken, in their calculation.
I had one question, would taking a special masters program (masters in medical genetics) help me prove that I can handle science courses? The courses I would take would be grad school level (would likely have other students in professional health/medicine programs) but wouldn't improve my undergrad GPA so how would this be seen by an admissions committee?
I have had very similar experiences to this person and while my GPA has gone up slowly (has improved in my 3rd and 4th year) however not high enough to be impressive (overall is around 3.0 as my improvements related to quite a few faults of my on like not yet figuring out how to study science). In the special master's program (I am going to apply this September as I'm graduating this December) I would be taking grad level courses so would this prove that I can handle science in med school?
Is it over a 3.0? If not, you absolutely have to keep doing undergrad classes or else you can get screened out.
I hope she's making progress! I appreciate her willingness to help others on their journey as well. Best of luck to her
Is it harder to get into led school without any clinical experience but with a pharm tech license and volunteering experience
She can go to sgu they'll take her lol
Great video to watch for anyone in the same boat gpa/MCAT wise as her! I hope she knows she is not alone in this situation!!
Quick question, I’m also looking to retake some science courses but as a non degree seeking student at universities and community colleges in my state. Would medical school admissions reject my application if I retook my classes at a community college versus a university?
Nope, you'll be fine.
Medical School Headquarters thank you so much for your quick response, Dr. Gray. Such a relief to hear that!
Well I heard that community college level ones won’t weigh as much. Just saying.
@@sydneyost9929 It does boost the GPA though. It is a gamble you can choose to take. OUWB recommends taking upper division at a university and lower at a community college. So maybe do both?
You’re good at a community college. All you need is good grades and a good mcat
Dr Gray mentioned WWAMI for MT residents but there is also WICHE ( Western Interstate Commission for Higher Education) that is available to MT residents and residents of other western states without med schools. The schools are variable in their policies (some will consider you in-state for admissions purposes, others will consider it as a "strong tie") but it's a long list ranging from more competitive state schools like OHSU, Colorado, and Utah to some less competitive public options in New Mexico, Dakotas etc. Additionally, your home state will pay the difference between in-state and out-of-state tuition for a certain number of matriculants. Good thing for applicants from western states to consider!
(I made an account specifically to post this but it's information that's kind of hard to find and more applicants should know about it!!!)
Thanks for the info! I always forget to talk about that one. Maybe because WAAMI is more fun to say!!!
If I have a 2.0 cumulative gpa rn is it possible to raise it to a 3.0 in 3 semesters at 15 credit hours each semester?
It would depend on how many credits youve already taken. If you have too many credits that make up the 2.0 then the next 45 won't make as much of a difference
Diana Del Castillo I just finished junior year and I took 15 credits each semester and I gotta retake 2 classes to get a better grade because I got an F in genetics and one in organic chemistry 1, what do u think now?
@@daleithajohnson8181 unfortunately you would have to take the same amount of credits and get a 4.0 in all of the classes for it to balance at 3.0.
For example let's say that up to this point you've taken 90 credits that got you the 2.0 gpa and that you got an A+ in your next 45 credits.
(90×2.0 + 45*4.0)/135 = 2.7
I'm still not sure how many credits you have so the numbers can be off , but here is a link to a gpa calculator that might help!
gpacalculator.net/how-to-raise-gpa/
@@daleithajohnson8181 actually the numbers don't account for retakes. That would depend on how schools calculate the new gpa, wither averaging grades or overiding them, but definitely would improve!
Daleitha Johnson Considering that you just finished junior year, it is not possible for you to reach a 3.0. However, you can show that your GPA has an upward trend.
Would love to know recent updates from the applicant (and also from the others in other videos)... I know I'm late, just came across this one...
Is there a place where I can find GPA ranges of medical schools? Or cutoffs? lol
MSAR database probably
Or the schools website
@@kerlylapaine7093MSAR has been somewhat helpful. It shows everything but the mean and the exact range lol. But it's better than nothing.
This was difficult to watch. I didn’t get all the way thru it, but my feeling is that med schools are going to think, “this person has bad judgement”. And if you keep failing classes due to deaths, then how will you handle patients when you have deaths around you.
This is comparing apples to oranges. It’s way more difficult dealing with a personal loss than the loss of one of your patients. It is like saying you feel the death of a patient on the same level as their family, which is completely unrealistic. Yes, you will feel sadness from a lost patient, but you were only apart of their medical journey for X amount of time. While a family has been around the loved one their entire life. Plus as a doctor, you will experience frequent loss, while a personal loss of a loved one is way more proximal.
What about a science gpa of 3.2-3.3 but an overall 3.6 with an Mcat of around 504-507? Would that be really bad to apply? Average EC and research.
GPA trends matter, your story matters, etc! People with higher and lower apply and get accepted every year. -M
@@MedicalSchoolHQ Hello, Thank you so much for replying! I have one last question, what if the trend is upwards until the last semester before graduation, the trend went a little down? I have usually always had an upward Trend until the last summer when I graduated and was working. Wasn’t sure if post-bacc/masters is needed. Thank you!
I have a question. I'm currently in LPN school and will graduate in January and want to go back to community college to finish up my associates...but there's one problem...my gpa is abysmal. It's a 2.1 at the community college, but I have 4 more classes before getting my AA and transfering to a four year, and also can retake an F and a D to raise my gpa. So here is my question, when I transfer to a four year college and take all my upper division sciences (physics, chem, biochem etc etc) and do well on the MCAT...will that give me a shot? Or will my community college grades from my AA hold me back? Thanks Dr. Gray!
Question: Not to sound mean but have you addresses the reason why your grades are so poor?
@@littlewhitekitty3773 I was a dumb kid! 🤦♂️
I am very sorry this young lady has had such a hard life. Without sounding like I'm lacking empathy, this interview doesn't help with understanding the rejection method because most of the rejection is due to life symptoms. That can't happen to anyone. A rejection worthy of reviewing is only helpful when the person has done their best academically. The personal side of it doesn't matter to know for any of us. If bad things happen in your life, it will be harder to achieve complex goals. That's a given.
I do not want to sound harsh but I would recommend going to Caribbean medical school and going from there
I think she needs iron out her learning strategies and try the pre reqs. Then give it another go
Hi! I go to UC Berkeley and I’m currently on the pre-med track. I’ve heard that med schools may look at lower grades here differently because of the academic rigor. Do you think this is true? I got a C in General Chemistry and Calculus 1 last semester and it’s kind of freaking me out. Let me know!
Kacy Gilliam To my knowledge admissions committees care about raw gpa, they can and sometimes do take into consideration rigor of the course load, but it isn’t going to make up for a poor science gpa. I would focus on improving your grades to get an upward trend in your science classes. 1-2 Cs aren’t the end of the world, tho.
Lol because only UC Berkeley has hard college classes everyone else went to "easy" universities.
Heard its possible to take the reputation of the school into consideration. A 3.5 at harvard may not be the same as a 3.5 in another college. idk tho need to verify this.