That ending scene was hot, so blushing is understandable haha. This episode is a treat for Spuffy fans (myself included), but overall it has a very dark tone. Buffy and Willow now dive deeper into their addictions\desires, and it's just a matter of time before consequences come.
Every time you said it was going to end in a makeout, I cracked up knowing how much more than that it would be. Your reaction was priceless! Spuffy all the way!
Oh yeah, I feel him.. Most of the time I just wanna UNPACK those stupid franchise dolls you always see in the back of a react video and, I dunno, make em dirty!
I guess I kind of ship Spike, Buffy, Angel in a 3-way relationship. I’ve never really checked Buffy fanfic online but someone must have written a story like that at some point. Spuffygel? And I do feel that Darla and Dru loved each other, but who would I add to close that circuit? Maybe ___ ________, but I actually like Lindsey.
In the previous episode, Willow put her spell on BOTH Buffy and Tara, to "purge their minds of memories grim, of pains from recent slights and sins". That's what went wrong with the spell. She tried to kill two birds with one stone and accidently targeted everybody.
The place coming down is suppose to represent Buffy's life right now. Lost her mom, died and was forced out from heaven by her friends, giles just left and then Spike tells her she came back less human. She wants a distraction. A good feel. It's understandable
"I thought one of them was going to save the other one" except that every metaphor and narrative thread says this is not about helping each other, its about tearing each other down.
James Marsters did a cameo where he talked about this season. Since they had switched to a new, and relatively young network, that network hadn't hired a....... Censor is not the right title. Standards and practices? Something like that. Anyway they didn't have the person in the company that tells shows "You can't do that" so they were able to get away with doing a lot more sexual stuff than they could get away with before.
I feel like there's a meta-level to Spike threatening to destroy the geeks' Boba Fett action figure. Boba Fett was supposed to be a short-time morally ambiguous character who somehow grew into a pop culture icon, and ended up being used for many SW film and TV projects over the decades, as a fan favorite.
@@iambicpentakill971 yes, Boba Fett is a bounty hunter, just as Spike is a vampire. But very quickly, we see Spike is a bit different than other vampires: he seems to genuinely love Drucilla, as the Judge points out. Unlike other vampires like Harmony and Dru (who claim to be in love), Spike seems to genuinely understand what love is (even though he continues to kill people/try to kill people during this period). Eventually, we see Spike become a champion. Similarly, Boba Fett worked for Jabba and Vader, but as a freelancer: he wasn’t officially affiliated with the good guys or the bad guys.
Even though Amy is back, we can see she is a bad influence on Willow, as she is a powerful witch also, the two of them at having great fun at The Bronze, but at the expense of everyone else, we can see again the magic addiction out of control. Spike knows something has changed in Buffy, and proves it by hitting her with no neural pain for him. It always looked as if it was only a matter of time when Buffy succumbed to her sexual urges and desires, and they two of them with superhuman powers shag so hard they demolish the house! The seeds are now really being sown for the tone of this Season as 'Pandora's Box' is now well and truly opened. The reason the sex scenes were shown now is because of the network change. On the WB it was not allowed, but once they switched to UPN it was ok. James Marsters explained this in an interview at Dublin Comicon in 2019.
UPN, according to Marsters, didn't have a standards and practices department like the other broadcast TV networks. So the sex scene was very bold, yet not graphic as something on HBO at the time.
Okay please don’t judge my dark trains of thoughts but it’s wild to think that they’d have to explain 9/11 to Amy. Like yes in sunnydale all this happened but nationally a lot of stuff happened too and just having to explain all of that would be so intense
That is assuming 9/11 happened in the Buffyverse. They have a lot of bad things happening that don't happen in the real world, so the opposite could also be true. Of course, in fanfic there are many crossovers with series such as NCIS, which means that in those versions of the Buffyverse, 9/11 did happen. So it might have also happened in canon Buffyverse - we simply do not know, as it was never mentioned.
Things happen in the world all the time, they're in California, probably wouldn't cross their mind especially with all the stuff harboring in Sunnydale
It does give one pause to realize that Spike immediately tries to prove to himself that he can hurt humans again by seeking out an innocent girl and attempting to bite her. Trying to convince himself that he is still evil but his chip stops him. You’ve got to try to process that and wonder if he is just putting on a performance and if he could indeed hurt humans again - would he have stopped himself from doing so? I think the answer is very much a no. But this doesn’t give you much to contend with on the whole “soulless demon” aspect when there’s humans that do this insane shit too and worse.
spike without a soul isn't much worse than angel with a soul. they're on about the same order of magnitude. in _school hard_ angel tried to feed xander to spike.
I think the point is that he isn't human, but he still cares about the people he cares about. Whether he would've gotten back to eating from house favorite food source or not, he would've had to convince himself to do it, and would've probably still tried to hide it and stayed friendly with the scoobies.
Even now, I feel its good that Anya say something to Willow despite the Scoobies being afraid to and continuing to pester Anya over "that thing she does." Willow needs to hear it. She needs to understand she has a problem and there's a good reason Tara left. Willow's been an addict of magic since restoring Angel's soul. Being a good thing to do and not dark magic doesn't mean she wasn't. But everything has turned toxic and she is still in denial until the episode's end about it all. And when people like Buffy equate the issue to their own problems or continue ignoring Willow's issues because of their own things matters like Xander and the wedding... that's how S6 turns into a season in metaphore on the failure of all characters except Tara to grow up. And even Tara has had to break up with Willow, otherwise she'd be in the same metaphorical rut after helping being back Buffy.
Leave it to Anya to say what needs to be said that nobody is brave enough to say. She may be lacking in social graces but she also possesses big balls. And I love how she’s proud of it instead of insecure about it. If there’s anyone that needed a fucking wake up call in this season it was definitely Willow. Well done, Anya! Really kinda love how she’s the one so far removed from reality that she’s able to give doses of it out. She’s like “Look honey, I may not understand human behaviour but I know for fact yours ain’t good.” 👍 She really went from “You wish it, I dish it.” To “You repress it, I express it.” Love that for her character!
Not that I’m condoning Spike’s behaviour towards Buffy in this episode. I’m definitely not. What he is doing and saying to her is abuse. But I can see it from his perspective also. Buffy one moment is calling him an evil disgusting thing, and then the next she asks for his help and trusts him to protect her family. Spike’s receiving mixed signals from Buffy all the time that he doesn’t know which way to go with her, how to behave towards her. He doesn’t know whether to be supportive and constructive or abusive and destructive. Being a soulless vampire and all - he can’t truly differentiate between what’s right and what’s wrong. However, his actions and choices are entirely his responsibility and he shouldn’t be absolved from punishment just because of it. He should take accountability for the relationship between them just as much as she should. Of course - then there’s Buffy - who doesn’t even know what kind of relationship they have other than the one they’re supposed to have. That is most natural to have. And in that sense, the abuse between them in this episode is actually entirely appropriate. The sex - not so much. But it has to be acknowledged that Buffy initiated it. She’s the one that chose to kiss him, unzip his fly and go to town. Her feelings for him are so confused.
I don't think that scene at the end with Buffy and Spike was what it looked like. I'm pretty sure she was having a reaction to all the dust in the place and trying not to sneeze. Re-watch it and see for yourself. 😉
If there was any doubt Spike is evil (and, I had zero), this episode shows him befing super dvil. Everything he does is to hurt others - the girl, the Trio, Buffy. Spike is a soulless evil demon with zero morals. Doesnt matter how 'entertaining' he is.
@@alicequinn505 absolutely not. You cant have enemies to LOVERS when one of them is not in love and never will be in love. This is just a toxic mess that will end horrible (the sex, unfortunately not they coexisting).
I definitely don't get the idea that Buffy and Spike are in a healthy relationship. The writers have gone out of their way to wave plenty of red flags.
I don't think Spike was attempting to murder Buffy. And he was trying to convince himself to murder the woman, because that's what he's supposed to do as a vampire.
He's not hesitant because he believes it's wrong or because he has any respect for human life or placed any value or sympathy on that human, he's hesitant because it would destroy any little chance he believes he has with Buffy at all.
@@bad71able I don't think that's it either. He's simply not used to killing anymore, and he's settled into a good enough kind of life, with something he likes (Buffy) in it. It's not as casual to kill anymore.
I agree wholeheartedly about people who don’t ship spike and Buffy. In fact I’m not even sure how they enjoy the show. The same for people who just hated Angel and Buffy. Like how do these people even like the show 😂 we know it’s the main interest for the main character outside of season 4 at least no spoilers for 7. Are these people that tuned into Anya and Xander and Willow and Tara? i guess maybe And that exception, season 4 was Riley and no one likes him lol let’s be honest. It’s just that these are such massive parts of the show I can’t imagine liking the show and not shipping either one of them (Angel or spike) and I mean I understand liking spike with her more than Angel which I do but hating Angel? That’s too much I think
When did she talk about that? I think those people generally are either guys, or they just don't need to ship anyone in a show, or both. It's entirely possible to enjoy Buffy without the romance component, but it is annoying when the haters are so derisive about shipping culture.
@@alicequinn505 i could see it not being the main reason people watch but I think that if I hated it I wouldn’t be able to watch it. Maybe that’s just me. I agree it’s usually guys who seem to not like spuffy. But I’m a guy and I really do
Posting my BUFFY REWATCH recap for ‘Smashed’. May contain spoilers. ‘Smashed’ is an interesting episode. I refer to it as part 1 of the catalyst of the themes of addiction and depression going on in Season 6 with Buffy and Willow. Part 2 being ‘Wrecked’. This episode introduces several destructive relationships. One such destructive relationship has already been well established so far in Season 6: Willow and magic. A human-to-human destructive relationship introduced, however, is through magic… in the sudden emergence of a recurring character that has been left by the wayside until now. Amy Madison. But while Willow and Amy’s relationship does have an equal amount of screen-time, I would say it’s Buffy and Spike’s relationship that takes center-stage in this episode. Thus, it is Buffy and Spike that I will be talking about for this recap as I want to discuss the whole comparison between soul-having and chip-having and what that means for Buffy and Spike’s relationship. Half-way through this episode it is revealed that Spike can now hurt Buffy again and therefore fight back when she physically strikes him. The sudden assumption by Spike is that his chip is faulty and that that must mean that he can hurt all humans again. However, when he tries his theory out on an innocent female victim and it is confirmed to be incorrect by Warren that something is wrong with it, Spike realizes it’s not the chip that’s faulty. It’s Buffy. Somehow Buffy’s resurrection from the grave has changed the functionality of Spike’s chip. It no longer works on her and that means Spike’s relationship with Buffy - which has been loving and healthy so far in Season 6 - has turned abusive and destructive because… of course…Spike would want to hurt her again and resume the violent “dance” that’s been happening between them since before Spike’s chip was implanted in Season 4. This revelation culminates in them having violent sex - which Buffy initiates. Their desire and passion for one another literally destroys an entire building. A way of showing that their sexual intimacy is so intense and powerful that it can actually bring a house down. While this is the relationship development Spuffy Shippers wanted, it’s is not quite what they asked for. So let’s analyze this turn of events shall we? The way I interpret this final scene is like this: We know from ‘Fool For Love’ that Spike conflates sex and violence. So I personally believe the creators - Whedon specifically - are basically giving the Spuffy fans the finger and saying “be careful what you wish for”. Essentially making the argument that a soulless vampire and a vampire slayer cannot physically be together without hurting each other. The only reason Spike and Buffy weren’t hurting each other beforehand was because Spike was chastised by his chip and so it was unfair for Buffy to fight him when he couldn’t fight back without hurting himself. So Spuffy fans get the sex but it comes at a price. It comes at the price of violence between them. To me, there’s this glaringly obvious comparison happening here between Spike not having a soul and not having a working chip. Since the beginning of Spike’s appearance on the show, characters make funny comments every now and again of Spike being an actual dog (I mean just look at his name) - and when the chip comes into play in Season 4, he becomes a domesticated dog that is housetraining. See Spike’s dialogue in ‘Pangs’: “I'm saying that Spike had a little trip to the vet and now he doesn't chase the other puppies anymore. I can't bite anything. I can't even hit people.” So in metaphor - the chip is a shock device on the dog’s collar to stop it from acting out. Or… as per Willow’s line of dialogue moments before Spike says his line quoted above: “He had trouble performing”. In metaphor: it is castration or erectile dysfunction. So that’s what not having a working chip covers. Now not having a soul. Later on in Season 6 in the episode ‘Seeing Red’, Buffy and Spike’s secret sexual affair becomes violent sexually and Spike attempts to rape Buffy after she makes the decision that she will no longer sleep with him. I have said several times now that I was not okay with seeing this scene. I hate it so much because I know that while Spike’s nature as a soulless vampire is inherently violent - his character, even soulless, would never stoop as low as rape due to his own experiences with sexual abuse. And that scene puts me off in many ways because I know with every fiber of my being that it is character assassination. Spike would not knowingly rape Buffy. Once again - the writers are telling us that a soulless vampire has no morals - no sense of morality at all. Well, that may be true with other soulless vampires… But it isn’t with Spike. Yes, Spike is selfish. Yes, Spike is violent. Yes, Spike is abusive. Spike is all of these negative and immoral things. I can agree with that. But at the same time - Spike CHOOSES who he is at every moment. The fact he doesn’t have a soul has nothing to do with what he does or how he acts. It doesn’t because he can do good things by choice too. Being “evil” or “good” is a choice. It’s not inherent. Sometimes Spike defies his nature, other times he follows it…. But it is always HIS CHOICE what he does. Not having a soul has no bearing on his actions and therefore his actions in ‘Seeing Red’ are assassination of his character and not a development of it. So I flat out disagree with Joss Whedon that the character had to have a soul to be a good person. But despite all that, it definitely does make for an interesting character arc that Spike needs a chip to not hit or bite humans. It makes sense to me because it is in his nature to be violent - to commit acts of violence - not because he is soulless… But because he is a vampire. I don’t think the writers make a very strong case for these two things being one in the same in Season 6 after the beauty that is his character starting off in it. After they make it apparent that CHOICE is the factor that makes him either beautiful or ugly, not his nature. Voluntary do-goodness starts off performative so that he can survive. But eventually it becomes genuine trust and faith and… love. It’s true, Spike can be violent but he can also be very loving too. To me, this definitely makes him more man than monster no matter what Joss decides to paint him as half-way through Season 6 without any rhyme or reason… with nothing but spite for the shippers. So as for the relationship between Spike and Buffy turning romantic/sexual - I think it makes a lot of sense that eventually their passions would overcome their sensibilities as they are essentially the same supernatural entity/spirit. That is to say - they are the shadow and light of each other. So it makes total sense to me that when they fight about who is more fucked up than who when it comes to this in the final scene, they end up fucking each other. In Season 6, it could be argued that they’re both a little soulless, a little chipped… a little less human than before. Their relationship is one born from violence so it only makes sense that they would revert back to it when they realize that they can carry on their violent “dance”. Now literally and obviously portrayed as sex. And I’m not saying I ship it because it is toxic - but dear god is it riveting to watch them smash that house to ruin.
"How do you not ship Spike and Buffy" I do. But I assume those who don't have the same problem I have. The writers doing a horrible job with the execution to the point of removing any charm it would have on people.
“How do you not ship Spike and Buffy.” They’ve literally just had violent sex brought on by their abusive treatment of each other. That’s not something anyone should ship. That’s fucked up.
@@Silver-rx1mh I do too but not to ship. To learn from. It’s interesting what they’re doing with the characters but it’s not something that should be celebrated or glorified. It’s extremely toxic and abusive the way they treat each other in this arc.
@@Silver-rx1mhit’s doesn’t matter fantasy or no fantasy we all see the red flags and know the character Buffy deserves a better man and we see how some reactors melt over that toxic relationship
@@FourTilSundayShe’ll react probably like the others who realized the male writers wanted to prove how dumb some women can be falling in bed with the enemy.
@@alicequinn505 Honestly don’t see the fascination. The typical bad boy ego falls In love ok but Spike is different, he’s more of a toxic and abusive bad boy
He has been suppressing his demon just fine at the start of this Season and a good few episodes before it. If they didn’t show us that I’d agree with you. But they do so…
Sure, if you want to take The Watcher's Council's exposition at face value, and want no complexity to your lore. It's your choice how to watch the show, just as it's everybody else's.
@@alicequinn505 it’s a difficult one to say the least. I am of course never arguing that Spike isn’t soulless or a demon. Just that I don’t think it’s demonic possession what’s causing him to be like he is because that just doesn’t fit. And I don’t think the lore is complicated as such. Just underexplained and therefore misleading.
@@Girl4Music I think the lore is great because it leads people different places, so you can kind of fill in the blanks. Unfortunately, this leads some to believe that where they landed is the only place. But really, we just got a vague description of demons, souls, but then Angel and Darla still feel guilty, so there's some person inside them, and some demons can be good, and some people can be evil. It's vague, but maybe the characters don't know themselves what's going on.
Enemies to lovers? I'd take Faith over Spike any day. People got to liking Spike too much, as if he wasn't still a soulless monster. Joss decided to remind them, leading to the most difficult scene in James' career. You'll know it when you see it.
I like Faith, but Spike cares about people more, and has shown himself capable of having long term relationships. It's spoilery from now on, but the writers wanting to "show" something is part of the problem with that scene.
This is exactly the kind of opinion I'm talking about. There isn't a soul to truly care about Buffy, let alone anyone else. If he cared, he wouldn't have tried to bite someone the moment he thought he could. However well monsters can love, Spike's obsession with Buffy is literally inhuman, and therefore twisted. Whether it's the scoobies, or bleeding disaster victims, every 'good' thing he's done is based entirely on *her* opinion. The only healthy relationship he ever had in the show was with Joyce... ...But yeah, spoilers. This kind of character discussion is best kept until the final season.
It's so sad when reactors ignore all the red flags just because of a ship. Literally beating each other is seen as a good thing...... Just because it led to sex. Really shows how people will justify any flaws attractive people have in their heads. This is why abusive relationships last so long. Someone is attractive and funny so it doesn't matter that he attempted to attacked a girl when he thought the chip wasn't working or that he beat on buffy too.
@yesie8375 you do know this is a supernatural show with fictional characters and has nothing to do with this reactors feelings about REAL people in REAL life? It's a befuddling trend with buffy commenters, not being able to separate the two. Walter white is one of my all time favorite characters, and I rooted for him all of breaking bad...that doesn't mean I like drug dealers in real life. It's fiction
It's also seen as a good thing because they're monsters and monster hunters whose sole spiritual calling in life is to beat each other up, that is how they express feeling, and that is how they express a desire or lack of a desire to kill each other. Sure with the attractiveness you have a point, but Spuffy doesn't follow a realistic abusive pattern of a relationship, it's a bad example.
That ending scene was hot, so blushing is understandable haha. This episode is a treat for Spuffy fans (myself included), but overall it has a very dark tone. Buffy and Willow now dive deeper into their addictions\desires, and it's just a matter of time before consequences come.
Every time you said it was going to end in a makeout, I cracked up knowing how much more than that it would be. Your reaction was priceless! Spuffy all the way!
The amount of glee spike has for threatening Boba Fett 😂
Oh yeah, I feel him.. Most of the time I just wanna UNPACK those stupid franchise dolls you always see in the back of a react video and, I dunno, make em dirty!
He's lived long and hard with Dru's dolls staring at him, time for revenge
You’re not alone girl I’m a die hard Spuffy shipper… & I can’t decide if I’m dreading or looking forward to your opinions by the end of the series lol
I guess I kind of ship Spike, Buffy, Angel in a 3-way relationship. I’ve never really checked Buffy fanfic online but someone must have written a story like that at some point. Spuffygel? And I do feel that Darla and Dru loved each other, but who would I add to close that circuit? Maybe ___ ________, but I actually like Lindsey.
Season 6 was on a new network which didn’t have a standards department set up. The writers took advantage . 🔥🔥
Really? That's hilarious! 😆
@@cerrobueno yes really from WB which had been more family viewer friendly to UPN for seasons 6 and 7
Honestly season 6 was good and then there was... 7 ... they set up so much and then ... there was 7 ...
@@Kazeromaru
sarah michelle gellar caught the writers by surprise when she announced she was leaving the show.
You are completly not understanding how toxic Buffy and Spike are. But there is still time
In the previous episode, Willow put her spell on BOTH Buffy and Tara, to "purge their minds of memories grim, of pains from recent slights and sins". That's what went wrong with the spell. She tried to kill two birds with one stone and accidently targeted everybody.
Well the bag of ingrediants burning instead of just the pinch of them is also what went wrong.
Anya’s line delivery is just perfect.
At the end of the last episode, Dawn was upset at Tara leaving. It's nice to see that they made up at least.
I can only call that ending fucking a house down.
The place coming down is suppose to represent Buffy's life right now. Lost her mom, died and was forced out from heaven by her friends, giles just left and then Spike tells her she came back less human. She wants a distraction. A good feel. It's understandable
"I thought one of them was going to save the other one" except that every metaphor and narrative thread says this is not about helping each other, its about tearing each other down.
Amy turned herself into a rat by season three ("Gingerbread").
I found it really funny when Spike threatened to destroy the Boba Fett action figure to get the nerds to do what he wanted. How about you?
James Marsters did a cameo where he talked about this season. Since they had switched to a new, and relatively young network, that network hadn't hired a....... Censor is not the right title. Standards and practices? Something like that. Anyway they didn't have the person in the company that tells shows "You can't do that" so they were able to get away with doing a lot more sexual stuff than they could get away with before.
I never even considered willow doing that spell for Buffy. I'm an addict I just assumed addict behavior
I think it was for Tara as well
Buffy: Spike. When I kissed you, you know I was thinking about a middle aged man right? Haha
I feel like there's a meta-level to Spike threatening to destroy the geeks' Boba Fett action figure. Boba Fett was supposed to be a short-time morally ambiguous character who somehow grew into a pop culture icon, and ended up being used for many SW film and TV projects over the decades, as a fan favorite.
There _is_ a meta level!
Morally ambiguous? Isn't he a bounty hunter who works for Vader and Jabba? The rest makes sense though. Interesting take
@@iambicpentakill971 yes, Boba Fett is a bounty hunter, just as Spike is a vampire. But very quickly, we see Spike is a bit different than other vampires: he seems to genuinely love Drucilla, as the Judge points out. Unlike other vampires like Harmony and Dru (who claim to be in love), Spike seems to genuinely understand what love is (even though he continues to kill people/try to kill people during this period). Eventually, we see Spike become a champion. Similarly, Boba Fett worked for Jabba and Vader, but as a freelancer: he wasn’t officially affiliated with the good guys or the bad guys.
Even though Amy is back, we can see she is a bad influence on Willow, as she is a powerful witch also, the two of them at having great fun at The Bronze, but at the expense of everyone else, we can see again the magic addiction out of control. Spike knows something has changed in Buffy, and proves it by hitting her with no neural pain for him. It always looked as if it was only a matter of time when Buffy succumbed to her sexual urges and desires, and they two of them with superhuman powers shag so hard they demolish the house! The seeds are now really being sown for the tone of this Season as 'Pandora's Box' is now well and truly opened. The reason the sex scenes were shown now is because of the network change. On the WB it was not allowed, but once they switched to UPN it was ok. James Marsters explained this in an interview at Dublin Comicon in 2019.
UPN, according to Marsters, didn't have a standards and practices department like the other broadcast TV networks. So the sex scene was very bold, yet not graphic as something on HBO at the time.
Okay please don’t judge my dark trains of thoughts but it’s wild to think that they’d have to explain 9/11 to Amy. Like yes in sunnydale all this happened but nationally a lot of stuff happened too and just having to explain all of that would be so intense
That is assuming 9/11 happened in the Buffyverse. They have a lot of bad things happening that don't happen in the real world, so the opposite could also be true.
Of course, in fanfic there are many crossovers with series such as NCIS, which means that in those versions of the Buffyverse, 9/11 did happen. So it might have also happened in canon Buffyverse - we simply do not know, as it was never mentioned.
Things happen in the world all the time, they're in California, probably wouldn't cross their mind especially with all the stuff harboring in Sunnydale
It does give one pause to realize that Spike immediately tries to prove to himself that he can hurt humans again by seeking out an innocent girl and attempting to bite her. Trying to convince himself that he is still evil but his chip stops him.
You’ve got to try to process that and wonder if he is just putting on a performance and if he could indeed hurt humans again - would he have stopped himself from doing so? I think the answer is very much a no.
But this doesn’t give you much to contend with on the whole “soulless demon” aspect when there’s humans that do this insane shit too and worse.
spike without a soul isn't much worse than angel with a soul. they're on about the same order of magnitude. in _school hard_ angel tried to feed xander to spike.
I think the point is that he isn't human, but he still cares about the people he cares about. Whether he would've gotten back to eating from house favorite food source or not, he would've had to convince himself to do it, and would've probably still tried to hide it and stayed friendly with the scoobies.
@sirmoonslosthismind Not sure I agree with you on that one, but I appreciate you commenting it
@@alicequinn505 yeah, I feel Spike is a little bit worse than what Angel is. But obviously Angelus is 1000x worse than what Spike is
Oh yeah! Spuffy all the way! 💜🖤
Even now, I feel its good that Anya say something to Willow despite the Scoobies being afraid to and continuing to pester Anya over "that thing she does." Willow needs to hear it. She needs to understand she has a problem and there's a good reason Tara left. Willow's been an addict of magic since restoring Angel's soul. Being a good thing to do and not dark magic doesn't mean she wasn't. But everything has turned toxic and she is still in denial until the episode's end about it all. And when people like Buffy equate the issue to their own problems or continue ignoring Willow's issues because of their own things matters like Xander and the wedding... that's how S6 turns into a season in metaphore on the failure of all characters except Tara to grow up. And even Tara has had to break up with Willow, otherwise she'd be in the same metaphorical rut after helping being back Buffy.
Leave it to Anya to say what needs to be said that nobody is brave enough to say. She may be lacking in social graces but she also possesses big balls. And I love how she’s proud of it instead of insecure about it.
If there’s anyone that needed a fucking wake up call in this season it was definitely Willow. Well done, Anya!
Really kinda love how she’s the one so far removed from reality that she’s able to give doses of it out.
She’s like “Look honey, I may not understand human behaviour but I know for fact yours ain’t good.” 👍
She really went from “You wish it, I dish it.” To “You repress it, I express it.” Love that for her character!
There aren't enough words for Amy.
I could think of only bad ones. Never liked her as a character.
@@alexie5201she's very manipulative
Buffy ❤❤❤❤
Not that I’m condoning Spike’s behaviour towards Buffy in this episode. I’m definitely not. What he is doing and saying to her is abuse. But I can see it from his perspective also. Buffy one moment is calling him an evil disgusting thing, and then the next she asks for his help and trusts him to protect her family. Spike’s receiving mixed signals from Buffy all the time that he doesn’t know which way to go with her, how to behave towards her. He doesn’t know whether to be supportive and constructive or abusive and destructive. Being a soulless vampire and all - he can’t truly differentiate between what’s right and what’s wrong. However, his actions and choices are entirely his responsibility and he shouldn’t be absolved from punishment just because of it. He should take accountability for the relationship between them just as much as she should. Of course - then there’s Buffy - who doesn’t even know what kind of relationship they have other than the one they’re supposed to have. That is most natural to have. And in that sense, the abuse between them in this episode is actually entirely appropriate. The sex - not so much. But it has to be acknowledged that Buffy initiated it. She’s the one that chose to kiss him, unzip his fly and go to town. Her feelings for him are so confused.
Great reaction, I thought you would like this ep :) Good that it went a bit unexpected for you :)
I shipped them until one episode not sure which season so I won't spoil it but I stopped
"How could you not ship spike and buffy?"... you'll see
Fav episode 🎉
I don't think that scene at the end with Buffy and Spike was what it looked like. I'm pretty sure she was having a reaction to all the dust in the place and trying not to sneeze. Re-watch it and see for yourself. 😉
My spuffy heart
If there was any doubt Spike is evil (and, I had zero), this episode shows him befing super dvil. Everything he does is to hurt others - the girl, the Trio, Buffy. Spike is a soulless evil demon with zero morals. Doesnt matter how 'entertaining' he is.
Spuffy is love. Spuffy is life.
This is not enemies to lovers. Trust me.
It sort of is. It's what it was before it got called enemies to lovers.
@@alicequinn505 absolutely not. You cant have enemies to LOVERS when one of them is not in love and never will be in love. This is just a toxic mess that will end horrible (the sex, unfortunately not they coexisting).
I ship them hard. I don’t care what the other people in the comments say. I’m Spuffy all the way!
I definitely don't get the idea that Buffy and Spike are in a healthy relationship. The writers have gone out of their way to wave plenty of red flags.
First ❤❤❤❤
Everyone will now proceed to forget that mere minutes after discovering that he can hurt people Spike attempted to murder an innocent and Buffy.
I didn’t forget but it seems a lot of women like that abusive type
I don't think Spike was attempting to murder Buffy. And he was trying to convince himself to murder the woman, because that's what he's supposed to do as a vampire.
He's not hesitant because he believes it's wrong or because he has any respect for human life or placed any value or sympathy on that human, he's hesitant because it would destroy any little chance he believes he has with Buffy at all.
@@bad71able I don't think that's it either. He's simply not used to killing anymore, and he's settled into a good enough kind of life, with something he likes (Buffy) in it. It's not as casual to kill anymore.
Amy has been a rat since season 3 not season 2
Why do you watch the previews, they are far more spoilery than the comments.
Amy has been a rat since season 3 episode 11
aaaand the 304 phase that iis so icky
I never shipped Spuffy because I knew it would only be toxic. And because Buffy doesn't actually like him. It's just her trauma and depression.
17:34 Easily. This whole thing is foul.
I agree wholeheartedly about people who don’t ship spike and Buffy. In fact I’m not even sure how they enjoy the show. The same for people who just hated Angel and Buffy. Like how do these people even like the show 😂 we know it’s the main interest for the main character outside of season 4 at least no spoilers for 7. Are these people that tuned into Anya and Xander and Willow and Tara? i guess maybe
And that exception, season 4 was Riley and no one likes him lol let’s be honest. It’s just that these are such massive parts of the show I can’t imagine liking the show and not shipping either one of them (Angel or spike) and I mean I understand liking spike with her more than Angel which I do but hating Angel? That’s too much I think
When did she talk about that? I think those people generally are either guys, or they just don't need to ship anyone in a show, or both. It's entirely possible to enjoy Buffy without the romance component, but it is annoying when the haters are so derisive about shipping culture.
@@alicequinn505 i could see it not being the main reason people watch but I think that if I hated it I wouldn’t be able to watch it. Maybe that’s just me. I agree it’s usually guys who seem to not like spuffy. But I’m a guy and I really do
@@alicequinn505 i have to go back. I think I was responding to what she talked about at the beginning
Posting my BUFFY REWATCH recap for ‘Smashed’. May contain spoilers.
‘Smashed’ is an interesting episode. I refer to it as part 1 of the catalyst of the themes of addiction and depression going on in Season 6 with Buffy and Willow. Part 2 being ‘Wrecked’. This episode introduces several destructive relationships. One such destructive relationship has already been well established so far in Season 6: Willow and magic. A human-to-human destructive relationship introduced, however, is through magic… in the sudden emergence of a recurring character that has been left by the wayside until now. Amy Madison. But while Willow and Amy’s relationship does have an equal amount of screen-time, I would say it’s Buffy and Spike’s relationship that takes center-stage in this episode. Thus, it is Buffy and Spike that I will be talking about for this recap as I want to discuss the whole comparison between soul-having and chip-having and what that means for Buffy and Spike’s relationship.
Half-way through this episode it is revealed that Spike can now hurt Buffy again and therefore fight back when she physically strikes him. The sudden assumption by Spike is that his chip is faulty and that that must mean that he can hurt all humans again. However, when he tries his theory out on an innocent female victim and it is confirmed to be incorrect by Warren that something is wrong with it, Spike realizes it’s not the chip that’s faulty. It’s Buffy. Somehow Buffy’s resurrection from the grave has changed the functionality of Spike’s chip. It no longer works on her and that means Spike’s relationship with Buffy - which has been loving and healthy so far in Season 6 - has turned abusive and destructive because… of course…Spike would want to hurt her again and resume the violent “dance” that’s been happening between them since before Spike’s chip was implanted in Season 4. This revelation culminates in them having violent sex - which Buffy initiates. Their desire and passion for one another literally destroys an entire building. A way of showing that their sexual intimacy is so intense and powerful that it can actually bring a house down. While this is the relationship development Spuffy Shippers wanted, it’s is not quite what they asked for.
So let’s analyze this turn of events shall we? The way I interpret this final scene is like this: We know from ‘Fool For Love’ that Spike conflates sex and violence. So I personally believe the creators - Whedon specifically - are basically giving the Spuffy fans the finger and saying “be careful what you wish for”. Essentially making the argument that a soulless vampire and a vampire slayer cannot physically be together without hurting each other. The only reason Spike and Buffy weren’t hurting each other beforehand was because Spike was chastised by his chip and so it was unfair for Buffy to fight him when he couldn’t fight back without hurting himself. So Spuffy fans get the sex but it comes at a price. It comes at the price of violence between them.
To me, there’s this glaringly obvious comparison happening here between Spike not having a soul and not having a working chip. Since the beginning of Spike’s appearance on the show, characters make funny comments every now and again of Spike being an actual dog (I mean just look at his name) - and when the chip comes into play in Season 4, he becomes a domesticated dog that is housetraining.
See Spike’s dialogue in ‘Pangs’: “I'm saying that Spike had a little trip to the vet and now he doesn't chase the other puppies anymore. I can't bite anything. I can't even hit people.”
So in metaphor - the chip is a shock device on the dog’s collar to stop it from acting out. Or… as per Willow’s line of dialogue moments before Spike says his line quoted above: “He had trouble performing”. In metaphor: it is castration or erectile dysfunction.
So that’s what not having a working chip covers. Now not having a soul. Later on in Season 6 in the episode ‘Seeing Red’, Buffy and Spike’s secret sexual affair becomes violent sexually and Spike attempts to rape Buffy after she makes the decision that she will no longer sleep with him. I have said several times now that I was not okay with seeing this scene. I hate it so much because I know that while Spike’s nature as a soulless vampire is inherently violent - his character, even soulless, would never stoop as low as rape due to his own experiences with sexual abuse. And that scene puts me off in many ways because I know with every fiber of my being that it is character assassination. Spike would not knowingly rape Buffy. Once again - the writers are telling us that a soulless vampire has no morals - no sense of morality at all.
Well, that may be true with other soulless vampires…
But it isn’t with Spike. Yes, Spike is selfish. Yes, Spike is violent. Yes, Spike is abusive. Spike is all of these negative and immoral things. I can agree with that. But at the same time - Spike CHOOSES who he is at every moment. The fact he doesn’t have a soul has nothing to do with what he does or how he acts. It doesn’t because he can do good things by choice too. Being “evil” or “good” is a choice. It’s not inherent. Sometimes Spike defies his nature, other times he follows it…. But it is always HIS CHOICE what he does. Not having a soul has no bearing on his actions and therefore his actions in ‘Seeing Red’ are assassination of his character and not a development of it. So I flat out disagree with Joss Whedon that the character had to have a soul to be a good person.
But despite all that, it definitely does make for an interesting character arc that Spike needs a chip to not hit or bite humans. It makes sense to me because it is in his nature to be violent - to commit acts of violence - not because he is soulless… But because he is a vampire. I don’t think the writers make a very strong case for these two things being one in the same in Season 6 after the beauty that is his character starting off in it. After they make it apparent that CHOICE is the factor that makes him either beautiful or ugly, not his nature. Voluntary do-goodness starts off performative so that he can survive. But eventually it becomes genuine trust and faith and… love. It’s true, Spike can be violent but he can also be very loving too. To me, this definitely makes him more man than monster no matter what Joss decides to paint him as half-way through Season 6 without any rhyme or reason… with nothing but spite for the shippers.
So as for the relationship between Spike and Buffy turning romantic/sexual - I think it makes a lot of sense that eventually their passions would overcome their sensibilities as they are essentially the same supernatural entity/spirit. That is to say - they are the shadow and light of each other. So it makes total sense to me that when they fight about who is more fucked up than who when it comes to this in the final scene, they end up fucking each other. In Season 6, it could be argued that they’re both a little soulless, a little chipped… a little less human than before. Their relationship is one born from violence so it only makes sense that they would revert back to it when they realize that they can carry on their violent “dance”. Now literally and obviously portrayed as sex. And I’m not saying I ship it because it is toxic - but dear god is it riveting to watch them smash that house to ruin.
You know the OP hasn't seen up to Seeing Red, yet, right? Let's keep it all spoiler free so she can experience it all for the first time.
@@tristanflynn4014 hence why I put the warning. She’ll know not to read it.
Gosh, without spoiling, Spike is EVIL. And S6 is getting darker and darker. And we are yet only in twilight.
"How can you not ship Buffy and Spike?"
Easy. I don't like Spike much after Season 4.
I agree. She’s looking at the bad boy and slayer relationship and not seeing how Spike is no good for her
"How do you not ship Spike and Buffy"
I do. But I assume those who don't have the same problem I have. The writers doing a horrible job with the execution to the point of removing any charm it would have on people.
We hard ship Spuffy, for so many years, and we are so hated.
I'm not a Spuffy fan because it's very toxic and abusive. I don't mind enemies to lovers, but this? No thanks...
What do you think enemies to lovers _is?_
People don't ship Bike because he's evil. Remember when he tried to kill that girl... In this very episode?
"Bike"?! You mean "Spuffy".
He's a vampire. He's less evil than he's supposed to be.
Sorry 😂 after 20 years and I still don't like it 😂😂 like them both but not together!
“How do you not ship Spike and Buffy.”
They’ve literally just had violent sex brought on by their abusive treatment of each other. That’s not something anyone should ship. That’s fucked up.
Sorry, I like 'fucked up'. lol
@@Silver-rx1mh I do too but not to ship. To learn from. It’s interesting what they’re doing with the characters but it’s not something that should be celebrated or glorified. It’s extremely toxic and abusive the way they treat each other in this arc.
@@Girl4Music But it's fantasy and not a guide on how to run your life, and I think at my age I'm old enough to know the difference. lol
@@Silver-rx1mh well that’s good.
@@Silver-rx1mhit’s doesn’t matter fantasy or no fantasy we all see the red flags and know the character Buffy deserves a better man and we see how some reactors melt over that toxic relationship
This reactors obsession with Buffy and Spike being together is a little weird. Specially after seeing how abusive Spike is towards Buffy
I'm wondering how she's going to react to *that* scene later in the season.
She feels like that dude with the novel comment above. Read that. Good insight
@@FourTilSundayShe’ll react probably like the others who realized the male writers wanted to prove how dumb some women can be falling in bed with the enemy.
Half the fandom: loves spuffy
yesie: This reactors obsession with Spike and Buffy is a little weird
@@alicequinn505 Honestly don’t see the fascination. The typical bad boy ego falls In love ok but Spike is different, he’s more of a toxic and abusive bad boy
you cant ship him as he is a demon, he have no human soul to supress the demon
He has been suppressing his demon just fine at the start of this Season and a good few episodes before it. If they didn’t show us that I’d agree with you. But they do so…
People can and do ship anything, whether romantic or rutting
Sure, if you want to take The Watcher's Council's exposition at face value, and want no complexity to your lore. It's your choice how to watch the show, just as it's everybody else's.
@@alicequinn505 it’s a difficult one to say the least. I am of course never arguing that Spike isn’t soulless or a demon. Just that I don’t think it’s demonic possession what’s causing him to be like he is because that just doesn’t fit.
And I don’t think the lore is complicated as such. Just underexplained and therefore misleading.
@@Girl4Music I think the lore is great because it leads people different places, so you can kind of fill in the blanks. Unfortunately, this leads some to believe that where they landed is the only place. But really, we just got a vague description of demons, souls, but then Angel and Darla still feel guilty, so there's some person inside them, and some demons can be good, and some people can be evil. It's vague, but maybe the characters don't know themselves what's going on.
Enemies to lovers? I'd take Faith over Spike any day. People got to liking Spike too much, as if he wasn't still a soulless monster. Joss decided to remind them, leading to the most difficult scene in James' career. You'll know it when you see it.
I like Faith, but Spike cares about people more, and has shown himself capable of having a long term relationship.
I like Faith, but Spike cares about people more, and has shown himself capable of having long term relationships.
It's spoilery from now on, but the writers wanting to "show" something is part of the problem with that scene.
This is exactly the kind of opinion I'm talking about. There isn't a soul to truly care about Buffy, let alone anyone else. If he cared, he wouldn't have tried to bite someone the moment he thought he could.
However well monsters can love, Spike's obsession with Buffy is literally inhuman, and therefore twisted. Whether it's the scoobies, or bleeding disaster victims, every 'good' thing he's done is based entirely on *her* opinion. The only healthy relationship he ever had in the show was with Joyce...
...But yeah, spoilers. This kind of character discussion is best kept until the final season.
@@TenebrousFilms I don't necessarily agree with that, but how do you figure the relationship with Joyce was healthy?
You know faith raped Riley? And she has a soul. So what’s her excuse?
It's so sad when reactors ignore all the red flags just because of a ship. Literally beating each other is seen as a good thing...... Just because it led to sex. Really shows how people will justify any flaws attractive people have in their heads. This is why abusive relationships last so long. Someone is attractive and funny so it doesn't matter that he attempted to attacked a girl when he thought the chip wasn't working or that he beat on buffy too.
to be fair, buffy attacked him first, both times this episode for no reason.
This is what I commented. I’m guessing it’s because that’s the type of partner they would choose
@yesie8375 you do know this is a supernatural show with fictional characters and has nothing to do with this reactors feelings about REAL people in REAL life? It's a befuddling trend with buffy commenters, not being able to separate the two. Walter white is one of my all time favorite characters, and I rooted for him all of breaking bad...that doesn't mean I like drug dealers in real life. It's fiction
It's also seen as a good thing because they're monsters and monster hunters whose sole spiritual calling in life is to beat each other up, that is how they express feeling, and that is how they express a desire or lack of a desire to kill each other. Sure with the attractiveness you have a point, but Spuffy doesn't follow a realistic abusive pattern of a relationship, it's a bad example.
@marysmith-ku2sn Seriously. It's like they forget some things that happen on shows can't even happen in real life.