A serious problem in planning against American doctrine is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine.
That's humanity in a nutshell when the rulebook doesn't seem to be working throw it out the window. & try something new cause what have you got to lose by trying.
A very real strategy. One time, I was playing chess against a friend. I was using no particular strategy, as I do not know any. After eliminating my queen, he revealed that he had been using a defined strategy this whole time. Knowing this, I proceeded to make extremely erratic movements until I had completely thrown him off course, and then proceeded to win the game with my more fluid playstyle.
Q has said something similar to Picard in more than one occasion. Those are inspiring and optimist ways the writers found to make us think about our potential. I love it.
I actually laugh at this scene because at first I thought it was a great sign of respect from the Vulcans but then I remembered that Vulcans are dicks and I figured it out: The word Sovak is looking for is: "Gullible" because humans are so quick to trust some nice words just this scene proved it: he just said some nice words and the gullible humans believed him and will now have to live up to better standards.
I just realized this is Star Trek's explanation of why every species encountered is a Planet of Hats. Humans are the strange exception to this rule in the Star Trek universe. A species that does not conform to one doctrine or ideology.
We humans have a tendency to stereotype other cultures. That's especially so in science fiction when it comes to alien cultures. When/if alien life is discovered, we'll realize the error in assigning human attributes and emotions to nonhuman species, much like we anthropomorphize animals.
There is another reason they fear humans. Humans ride the tempest of their emotions and become stronger because of it. This is inexplicable to Vulcans; a non sequitur. What they don't understand is that their emotions are much *much* stronger than humans. Humans can give free vent to their emotions and still rule over those emotions. This is not possible for Vulcans. If they give free vent to their emotions, their emotions will rule them. Therefore those emotions must be ruled, lest they rule.
>This is not possible for Vulcans. If they give free vent to their emotions, their emotions will rule them. Therefore those emotions must be ruled, lest they rule. Then how do you explain Romulans? They are still capable of rational thought and seem to have a firm handle on their emotions most of the time.
@@akiramasashi9317 Because Romulans went the way of the galaxy, by embracing select emotion. Their will to dominate and feel superior to everything and everyone. They don't embrace all of their emotions.
@@akiramasashi9317 And look at their society. It's warrior based. They will also cut hulls at the drop of a hat. They aren't as civilized as Vulcans. They are capable of rational thought, even with the emotions, but they are much less forgiving than humans or Vulcans.
@@akiramasashi9317 The reunificationists were more civil? Really? I suppose you consider what Sela did was civil. And she was a reunificationist. In any event, they still were a warrior society. They would sometimes duel and would practice tactics on practice targets and I would assume on holograms as well. They had an outlet so they wouldn't destroy their world, unlike the Vulcans.
I always enjoy the way humanity is presented in Star Trek: there's a kind of practical creativity to humanity that doesn't seem to be present in other races, and that's why humans seem to do so well in so many situations. Humans aren't the strongest, fastest, smartest, or most technologically advanced - but they're the most creative and adaptable, and that ends up being what you need most of all: not to be any one thing, not to have any one defining trait... but to be the most able to switch between whatever trait is most needed at that moment.
That's because we can only imagine in our sci fi variations of our own existence. Just like in starwars you see entire desert planets and ice planets, that are just variations of the biomes on our own planet.
@@mryellow6918 that has nothing to do with limited imagination. star wars specifically was limited by the technology of the time. the reason all of the planets were/are just variants of our biomes is that effects would have been prohibitively expensive trying to create entirely new biomes. look at more recent sci-fi/sci-fantasy and you can see the difference. not in all of it, but in a lot of it. same goes for why nearly everyone was distinctly humanoid in star ward. all that being said...we do see homogenous planets. Mars, for example. Not technically a planet, but our moon is also fairly homogenous.
True but we all have a core choice or promise that define the individual. No matter what we all try to make what person we wish to be work in any situation.
I always liked the idea that the humans in Star Trek are the galaxies mad scientists. That would also be a good explanation why starfleet ships always have to deal with weird stuff like those holodeck malfunctions.
It's funny, because it's all just a biproduct of the other species simply being written in a two-dimensional way in the early years, as the goal was to present allegories for different aspects of humanity, rather that believable societies.
@@rekcusdoo That was Braxton's fault. He, for whatever reason, had it in his head he could prevent a disaster by causing another one (Species 8472 overrunning the Galaxy comes to mind). If he had not tried to destroy Voyager FOR NO GOOD REASON, his ship would not have been stranded in the the late 20th century. Frankly, Braxton was defective and had no business in Starfleet" or running a time ship at all, forget unsupervised. Also this is why Star Trek should NEVER DO TIME TRAVEL.
I feel like it should be pointed out that the statement of humans going from WW3 to interstellar travel within is, more than likely, not considered a good thing by Vulcan High Command. Bevause it took Vulcans 1500 years to recover, they had a lot of time to virtually transform their species. The quick turnaround of Humanity, coupled with them only being marginally different in attitude compared to their time pre-warp travel, introduces a lot of uncertainty as to their mindset in that timeframe. Humanity has told itself "it'll be better this time" in the past many times only to eventually use their newfound understanding and technology to fight greater and bloodier wars. Except now with warp travel, they have the new ability to drive not just themselves into extinction but whole races alongside them. And it's a question that probably persists more than two centuries later - as the mere threat of the Dominion caused Human space to fall into terror and paranoia, with a Starfleet coup almost installing a military dictatorship on Earth.
Looking back as I watched this show as a kid, I'm amazed at how it awakened a sort of pro-human feeling in me early on. I hated the parts where the Vulcans basically played God and tried to control human development. If it weren't for humanity's willingness for cooperation, the Vulcans would've been seen as their tyrannical overlords instead of allies- look at how the Augments ended up when they tried to take over the world. We might not be their version of perfect, but this was humanity's future- not the Vulcans. Archer's initial frustrations for their restrictions were actually justified.
Also consider the 200+ year lifespan of Vulcans. Between 2063 and 2373 is 310 years. That's 2, maybe 3, Vulcan lifespans. Fears and prejudices are changed only slowly, even slower with such long lifespans.
It's why the two species rely on one another. Humans can understand emotions better than Vulcans because Vulcan emotions are just too chaotic for them to process. It's why they are so violent when they lose control or any form of balance they manage to achieve. "Calming down" is as difficult to Vulcans as it is for a Human to flip a car over with their bare hands. It's why they take Pon Farr so seriously as it's one of the few ways they can "vent" safely. It's because of this understanding Humans have with emotions that they can embrace the Vulcan logic. It's why Hoshi goes to T'Pol for help in controlling her overwhelming fears since she knows T'Pol has an insight to control she lacks. And it works: with T'Pol help in making the emotions something tangible Hoshi doesn't erase her fear but control it. That helps her greatly as the series progresses. It's how T'Pol realizes that Humans can control their emotions if they're given the right reigns, but ultimately they have to hold onto them, not the Vulcans. That's why Spock and Kirk have such a good dynamic: Kirk helps Spock understand the problem in front of him while Spock helps Kirk keep control of himself, but neither tell the other what to do, just gives the tools they need.
@@user-xw5xo3bv1n We mustn't forget that Vulcans were instrumental in helping Humans reaching the stars, while Vulcans themselves had no outside aid during their own crisis. Ambassador here was humble enough to acknowledge Human progress without mentioning that, because it's not Human advancement that impressed him, it's the Human traits.
@@Cyberium No they weren't. Humans invented warp on their own. That's the only reason the Vulcans talked to us. "Vulcans themselves had no outside aid during their own crisis. " total speculation on your part.
On DS9, Nog marveled at how the humans were able to advance so quickly as well. Apparently humans accomplished in a few thousand years what took the Ferengi 25,000.
@Malk Von Batshit That's one of Star Trek's fundamental problems...they make the aliens a 'planet of hats', with each alien species being a pastiche of one specific human trait. It would be illogical, as the Vulcans would put it, to assume every Klingon is a warrior or every Ferengi is an amoral capitalist. Doing so makes the alien races two-dimensional instead of giving them the variety needed for depth and realism.
"Are Vulcans afraid of humans?" "Well, of all the species we have encountered, only 1 has been so intelligent, yet still so stupid, to not only detonate 1 nuclear warhead within their atmosphere, but to detonate dozens in a competition to make the biggest, for half a century"
It's comforting to know that the people who made decisions like that are probably still somewhere in the deep state- lobbying complex, at the age of 106. And certainly their children are.
It mostly has to do with the fact that every human has a dark side, but sadly, too many of us fail to control that side. There are even humans that embrace that dark side. That is what makes Humans unreliable as a whole.
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 it does. I think it is also telling that pretty much only Humans evolved on a fairly hospitable world. Andoria is a icy moon. Vulcan a desert planet of raging sandstorms and incredible heat. Qo'onos has extreme volcanism (I think). Earth, by contrast, is a paradise of a world, lush and green with plentiful water and vegetation. No wonder, then, that humans are so complicated.
Yeah but he's not sure how to deal with a race. That has a wild range of emotions that they control. Can vent them when needed yet not be ruled by them. Vulcans as a whole can't stand being wrong about anything.
There are many sciencefiction stories in which humans rule supreme, are the dominant species or otherwise 'the best' But in Star Trek, we're the weird ones.
@@ivanelias3916 You only say this because you were born with hands. Mandribles for examples would work as well. Or you could be a social species where individuals are always born as twins and act together as one. Or you could have some kind of chemical reaction or magnetic field to move certain objects. In our own evolution there are many ways which we could have evolved different. But i have to admit - opposing thumbs are the easiest way you could move something.
To be fair, first we had to hook up 2 of them, punch a hole in the universe, travel to another universe with a more violent version of humans, beat them up (cause their violence offended us) steal their warp cores to get back, THEN we turned a star into a torus. Granted that was last week.
humans are a spectrum of destruction, we survive by destroying each other, no other sub species are designed to survive, but to thrive within one another, logic is never in our true nature, that is why humans are more frightening than a vulcan showing emotion
@@mmoarchives2542 There are other primates that fight wars, and kill each other. Chimpanzee and Apes both kill and eat each other . It is in our nature.. but we are not alone.
Gary Graham plays the Vulcan Ambassador Soval, with nuance and dimensional depth. Without a doubt, one of the best portrayals of a Vulcan across all of the Star Trek franchise. Jolene Blalock does a superb job, as well, when the writers gave some depth to her character as T'pol. When Soval and T'pol have a private scene together, it's as if we are eavesdropping on an unguarded Vulcan conversation, and see the nuances of their culture. Enterprise writers, took the Vulcan characters to a new level, that portends what humans might have to do in the future to survive self-extinction.
Oh he was in stitches for a long time dealing with humans. Finding us amusing as hell in one moment, then about ready to press the button sending us to extinction the next. He finally got the idea that IDIC really did apply to us and let it be. One of the biggest discussions the Q Continuum had in a loong time.
@@therealtampadude9175 and now he's back in Picard, involving everyone in a time travel plot, back to Earth's 20th. Let's see how badly mangled this script is.
Every time I hear someone say the word Logic. I'm reminded what the 2nd Doctor said to Zoe in the Wheel in Space. "Logic, my dear Zoe, merely enables one to be wrong with authority."
Got another one. "The greatly stupid and the greatly powerful have something in common. They don't change their views to fit the facts. The alter the facts to fit their views. Which can ve uncomfortable if you happen to be one of those facts that needs altered."
And the best one of all... "Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell...BAD." -- Commander Spock, "I, Mudd".
@@CodeAndGin Changing views to fit the facts/changing facts to fit their views was a 4th Doctor episode, S14E04, part 4, "The Face of Evil" - just before Leela [under mind control] tries to shoot the Doctor. Not sure about the other one.
Admiral: "Ambassador, are Vulcans afraid of us?" Ambassador: "Admiral, with respect, I distinctly heard a Human engineer on my way here. Do you know what she was contemplating? Out loud she wondered if we could tractor beam two stars together for, and I quote "Because that shit would be cool". Now do you understand?" Admiral: "Oh Burke's plan? Okay in her defense, that shit would be kinda cool."
No it isn't. It's absolutely not true. During the black plague, what did we do? We killed the cats. We blamed it on cats and we killed them. THAT'S what humans do when things are worst. Humans should be eradicated from the universe. But go ahead, give yourself a pat on the back for being so awesome in your own opinion, that's the level of humility one should expect from a filthy human after all.
I'm convinced the writers of this ep were author c clark fans. There is a short story by him written decades ago where a group of different alien species come to visit earth because they detected radio signals. The rest of the galaxy takes thousands of years to go from radio to space flight and they are astounded to find not only did it only take us a century but we have completely left the planet in non-ftl ships because of our sun going nova (the aliens were coming to save what they could). The story ends with "and they laughed, wondering what such a primitive species would say to such advanced species coming to their rescue. 50 years later, they were no longer laughing".
@@buckaroobanzai7063 thanks, I had forgotten the name. One of the first Clarke stories I read. Still have the images in my head of the aliens walking through the abandoned cities on Earth wondering where the people are hiding, then noticing the radio telescope dishes all pointing in the same direction, sending telemetry to the fleet of Earth when the sun goes nova.
I suppose the reason humans are OP in the show is because they constantly get themselves into trouble, and thus constantly have to bail themselves out of trouble. They've essentially gotten really good at solving problems, by creating problems for themselves, intentionally or unintentionally.
"It took us 1,500 years to rebuild our world and travel to the stars. You humans did the same in less then a century..." In other words, we got in miles of our own shit and we weren't dense enough to figure it out...
I love this scene, but I think I can define humans. Versatility. That is humans strength. Not locked down by one way of thinking but being versatile. The Vulcans needed 1500 years to rebuild through logic. We have logic, but with 'Klingon' passion, 'Andorian' arrogance, and 'Tellarite' stubborness, humans were able to do that in less than 100 years.
Yes versatility but the willing to accept the deference in our species is paramount, how are we able to reach out and make contact with a another species with out accepting their differences from us? Also I think its our adaptability to climate and terrain that has made us who we are as humans, There's very few places on earth that humanity has managed to survive in and create a culture.
Passion, arrogance and stubborness are the exact traits I'd expect from scientists capable of creating great things like the warp drive. The passion for their work, their arrogance of just believing they are the ones able to do it, the stubborness to push on through setbacks, and the inteligence to back it all up.
The defining attribute of humans is foolishness, for better or worse. We fear the unknown, but venture there anyway. We stupidly fake a smile, before we genuinely smile. We're driven by reward circuitry in the brain to be happy in ignorance, and yet we yearn for knowledge, a foolishness we'd rather call curiosity. On the other hand, the same foolishness makes us superstitious around the unknown, we refuse to smile despite the inner call to do so. We may also choose ignorance when knowledge is right in front of us. We're fools, not of a Took perhaps, but fools we remain - for better, or worse.
It's the same in almost every sci-fi series. Humans are the underdog, a jack-of-all-trades, always a newcomer to the galactic world but clearly on path to become the dominant ones one day.
@@voorachter2733We need more sci-fi and fantasy stories and settings that lean into Humans are Persistence Predators. Like that one short story "We who Run (Chase)" - it's so rarely touched upon. Humans are always average, or curious, or innovators, or whathaveyou. Nothing turns around and says "Humans start to get sore legs at the time other races collapse from total exhaustion, and can march four times further than that before exhaustion begins to truly set in."
Enterprise was a very underrated show. Like many good shows it takes a year or two to find its feet then settles in with many shows that tell good stories. I will never understand why Paramont didn't follow the example of The Next Generation Series and put all the series in syndication. Had they done that then I believe that Voyager and Enterprise would have been more successful and Enterprise may have gone on to the usual 7 year cycle.
Humans are fun. That is why Humans are the glue that holds the United Federation of Planets together. The Federation would not be as fun without Humans.
Humans are also the anomalous unifying force in Babylon 5, Halo and Mass Effect. Without humans and their meddling heroes those galaxies would've been devoured by ancient, hidden precursor aliens.
@@dareka9425 also have you noticed how all the aliens seem to want to mate and get naked with humans? That means Humans are awsome and everyone in the universe wants to party with us. Humans glue the galaxy together and goes everywhere sowing their wild oats with anyone who is in the mood.
@@dareka9425 Humans are overrated. A vulcan galaxy is much more fascinating. Because there will be those following new philosophies of embracing the better part of their emotion/instinct, eventually. Such things are part of intelligence, and shouldn't be supressed completely.
@@nagihangot6133 Most of the galaxy-saving bits in Star Trek were led by brash humans. Vulcans restricted races from traveling to the stars too quickly, humans rallied all the races to form the Federation. Spock couldn't even save their own planet, let alone the Romulan empire they promised to help.
@@Thulgore I mean only if your overly reductive. We don't have dedicated soldiers any human can be one, a good chunk of the world is democratic or at least not a hereditary dictator ship. we don't have truly communal young, we tend to pair off. most mammal family groups would be a better comparison for social structure, predatory pack animals or great apes would be closer still. the only thing we have more in common with ants than them is scale. Additionally agriculture is not a social trait but a prerequisite for a large colony of any sort as a stationary population has to renew food sources or starve.
@@arhalts Our society is very close to ants though. Ants farm, they wage huge wars, they build up various departments to their colonies, all with a specific task in a functionalistic system of different organs. And even though the majority of the world today isnt a dictatorship or monarchy where one person has the highest power, it used to be like that for almost all our existence and is clearly just as natural of a system for us as concepts such as democrasy.
General: Oh well...you know thats not really fair. We had some future space engeneers helping cochram to rebuild his ship. Soran: What? 🤨 General: What?
Despite this scene, the Vulans and Humanity have the closet relationship in the Federation. First Contact, Spock and Kirk best summarized this relationship. Even if Vulcan find us unpredictable and unruly in nature, they seem rather fond of humanity, seeing much of themselves in them and so decided to help them form a better world for their new allies.
The Humanity in Star trek is hard to classify.. But when you think about it, Humanity is like a binding agent. We are the glue that holds things together between the different races. We are capable of everything that all the different races in star trek are like. But we can work together with those other cultures. We can be isolationists, xenophobic and xenophiles all at the same time. We are pretty much a paradox of definition. Jack of all trades. Humanity is basically the glue that holds the federation together in most of the series. (without knowing it even in the first TOS series...)
Interesting. This was also the point made by aliens about humans in Babylon 5. Delenn pointed out that only humans created mixed communities, so only they could have built Babylon 5.
“you humans did that in less than a century” probably with all of the normal human chaos and problems and conflicts still existing during that endeavor.
I think the reason that Humanity evolves technologically so fast is that Humans are infinitely curious and willing to try anything. That curiosity and drive to know the unknown is what made Humanity advance so fast while other races were slower in their development, whether it was because they were held up by religious doctrine like the Voth, scared of going to fast like the Vulcans, consumed by war like the Klingons, etc, Humanity drive to discover the unknown allowed them to bypass anything that would slow down their development, hell the creation of the Federation, while made in order to unite races against a stronger threat like the Romulans, allowed Humanity to learn from all member races and to pool those races creativity to force a even greater technological leap then they or the other races could have done on their own.
They had very good reason to be afraid of us if the Humans of the Mirror Universe are any indication. He should just count himself he lives in the good Star Trek timeline.
One of my favorite moments from all of Star Trek. Vulcans appear to look down on humans but hide their true feelings. They see themselves but without the need to rely on logic above all else.
I remember one scene where a landing party was in an ice cave with some nonhuman members. The humans were just fine but the others were suffering. Humans had long ago adapted to heat and cold. Not so the others.
I love that they take the 1 quirk per race thing that resulted from the standalone episodic format, and actually made it a near galactic norm to explain why humans matter so much in galactic politics.
The human/vulcan relationship is like a tug-of-war. With the emotions humans able to pitch tons of solutions based on feelings and reason and vulcans eager to slap them down with brutal logic until both agree. Consensus between the two species is possible but you have to work for it.
The line that followed: "We only wish to be your partners in exploration, to work together in common cause." If humans ever indeed encounter peaceful extraterrestrials, who knows what changes will result in our world.
You know I have watched almost all the star trek series including this one. And I never thought of it this way. Never did I imagine the Vulcans feared us.
They feared what path humanity might take. It would have been SO EASY for humanity to go “The Vulcans won’t stop holding out on us? Won’t share their technology? We’ll have to take their ships by force, and they’ll never see it coming,” ESPECIALLY during the destruction of the Romulan War. Given how brash, irritable and angry much of humanity was over the Vulcans’ reluctance to share higher technology, they had very good reasons to be hesitant of that. Humanity could’ve so easily gone the way of the Terran Empire.
"Why would we worry you?" "Dude, you guys nuked yourselves back to the Industrial age and then a guy built a Warp Drive out of scrap in his garage 80 years later."
The weird thing with humanity is that we have undeniably short lives. In the grand scheme of the cosmos our lives are short. Nearly a hundred years and in half that time our bodies degrade and become frail. Humanity rides the high of our emotions. Almost paradoxically we're stronger because through emotion we gain a semblance of control as much as strength. This is what scares other species. Our capacity to not give a shit when faced with overwhelming odds coupled with our spiteful nature makes us incredibly unpredictable. Among other things.
That's a common theme in fantasy writing as well. Human's due to their short lifespans compared to dwarves or elves, are always in a rush to do great things while they can. So we dabble in things we shouldn't as shortcuts. Sometimes it burns us badly and sometimes it works out.
The way humans are represented in Star Trek reminds me of Mass Effect. We're not the strongest or fastest or smartest, but what we are is by far the most creative and driven, a drive that could be easily mistaken for impatience. And that drive/impatience, coupled with our unmatched creative thinking, leads us to make progress at rates far beyond the rest of sentient life, and to create things other species would never even think of. And when other species see humanity just kind of show up and get to the point they're at in a fraction of the time it took them to get there, it's frightening because it makes them realize we might be able to surpass them just as quickly. Humans will make progress in a single lifetime that might take centuries for other species, and that's probably pretty intimidating.
A species that can expect to live what, 200, 300, 500 years or more on average will naturally make most advances far more slowly than a species with an average life expectancy of 100 years or less. That longer life span results in being that much more methodical in planning and study both.
I love that Soval never actually said who humans actually remind him of, and let the admiral answer the question for him. Because of course it's actually Romulans who humans remind Soval of, but he can't say that.
I ignored this series when it was in production. But recently I watched the whole series in order via Paramount's online streaming service, and reached the conclusion that this series is very underrrated. It should have gone on longer by at least two more seasons. However it seems like it was carefully planned to last four seasons, no less and no more, from the very start. This gave it a continuity and integrity that is noteworthy.
As the Admiral figured out are that vulcan like species; you see the intense respect, almost to fear, in Soval's expression. He then explains how humans are superior. That expression is superb acting. Nowadays there's only mindless action and absurd circumstances.
Hell yes. Irony abounds. Met the guy back in the day. Spent so long talking with him about the show and the like.....I forgot to get him to signmy DVD OF the show. :(
I mean, it's all a holodeck simulation written hundreds of years after the fact - so it's basically a playable historical novel. In that it's realistic in how unrealistic it is ;D
@@HappypandaAJ I mean, consistent with the other acronyms (TNG, VOY, DS9, ENT) it should be - and probably is - DIS. But I think STD is a better fit, too :D
S4 Enterprise was really really good and I still feel cheated we never got a 5th season. We were SO CLOSE to the first Romulan War, Refit NX-01, a pleasant ret-con of the finale episode, all of it.
So... To reach warp capability faster we should reduce human lifespans. I'll do my part by eating only bacon and ice cream and never exercising. When people tell. Me to eat healthier I'll say "I'm doing this for scientific progress!"
If aliens do exist, and are watching us, it would only be for the fascination of how quickly we progress despite our many failings. It's like thousands of years of technologically dragging our feet, and suddenly, within a century, we go from covered wagons to jet airplanes. The only thing more fascinating than that is how frightening it is!
This clip from Star Trek: Enterprise reminds me of Babylon 5 in that even the Vulcans understood that the human race's potential for destruction was legendary. Humans...heh. If there is one thing that we are good at, one thing all other alien races can agree on, is that we are just so fucking good at killing.
I'm reminded of Galactic Civilizations. Humans are seen as (and mechanically are) the greatest diplomats in the galaxy. Many of the aliens miss the fact that humans were basically forced to become so to keep from wiping ourselves out with our warlike nature. It's amazing how quickly that advantage can exponentially grow into every other kind of advantage in the game if you play it right.
There are things in the Universe billions of years older than either of our races. They are vast, timeless, and if they are aware of us at all, it is as little more than ants and we have as much chance of communicating with them as an ant has with us. We know. We've tried and we've learned that we can either stay out from underfoot or be stepped on. They are a mystery and I am both terrified and reassured to know that there are still wonders in the Universe, that we have not explained everything. Whatever they are, Miss Sakai, they walk near Sigma 957 and they must walk there alone." Ambassador G'Kar,
We are very good at exploring and settling issues too, we are also very passionate creatures, everyone who describes humans as only violent choose to ignore the glorious things about our species
In a similar vein, in the Terminator 2 movie, one of the best movies ever made, the Terminator tells the young John Connor, "It is in your nature to destroy yourselves.". This is so accurate it's frightening.
@@k1productions87 exactly. The Vulcan fear is that humans will be a species with the technological capability of altering entire star systems, and the lack of moral/ethical framework to not weaponize it.
No wonder the Vulcans needed 1500 years for this, because if you live strictly logically and put your feelings away, good feelings like passion and the good feeling when you have achieved something are also lost. Human passion is not always a good feeling, but when it serves a good cause, humans are unstoppable through their passion and through their positive motivation. Humans achieve their goals through passion.
This is one thing that Star Trek did well on multiple occasions, discussing humanity from an outside perspective. Some of my favorite scenes from DS9 involve Quark and/or Elim Garak doing just that.
That's because, in the face of death/near-extinction, we humans *WILL* put aside racial/ideological differences in order to survive. Something Vulcans never understood. . .
Yup, vulcans needed to ban emotions alltogether because they couldn't figure out how to use them in moderation. That is probably what the ambassador is actually afraid of - that we are able to harness and use our emotions.
Well, it should be no surprise to any Trekkie out there that the show has a heavy liberal bias... I mean, they aired both an interracial and a lesbian kiss during times these weren't considered ... shall we say ... presentable?
Humans in the Vulcan logic sense could be considered: "A pre Surak distant cousin". So much like them, but so different. In the non canon book "Vulcans Glory" it tells of the horrifying wars Vulcan faced. And how similar human culture was to their own. Both were violent, angry, always seeking wars and some kind of "trigger" to get everyone divided and pointing fingers. Passages include: "A pumped laser beam through the eye" "ShiKahr faces nuclear retaliation from neighboring Raal after talks break down over a territorial dispute". In fact, Surak was a computer expert. His family was extremely wealthy and important as a prime contractor for computer technology throughout the Vulcan Solar System. His family's inventions include neural interfaces for computer to "virtual world" via the Psi abilities Vulcans possess. Holo networks and direct mind news and entertainment feeds. And of course neural attack blockers and psionic attack resistance to the Vulcan Military. Surak had these installed at great expense to protect him and others from psionic adepts and trained weapons. Basically, Vulcan of the Pre Surak Era were Cyberpunk personified!!! Swords alongside phasers, traditional armor but resistant to slug throwing, energy, and even Psi wave attack. In the book (The Devils Heart)Surak lost several brothers just after the Festival of Moons (Vulcan was renowned for its festivals to every god, spirit, and anything worth drinking and fighting at) and a full fight on the Ichaya Plains. Where a young Surak sat in the cold desert, being warmed by the powerful Devils Heart (Ko'n'ya in Vulcan) considering the waste of lives and the pain of it all. It was where his philosophy was born. To end the desires themselves. While the Devils Heart eventually left Vulcan and helped build the Romulan Empire. Surak could have ruled Vulcan, raised his brothers from the dead, and struck down all his enemies. But he chose the way of logic, not power.
This reminds me of Keevam, the Vorta from DS9's Rocks and Shoals. He says to Sisko, "I bet you've brought one of those starfleet engineers that can turn rocks into replicators."
Enterprise is such an under-rated series, it really does flesh out the trek universe. I really need to watch it again, not for the regular characters(which there are some really damn good ones) but for the secondary characters like this. Also I love Shran, the story arc with that blue bastard and Archer was AMAZING.
Same here. Shran was Awesome! Jeffery Combs is such a great actor. Weyoun! And Quarks nemesis from the FCA! ALL great characters, but Shran is the best! He just cannot quite understand those darn pink skins!🤣🤣🤣🤣
In Star Trek lore, humans are like literally everything in the universe. They are even genetically compatible with all humanoid species. They have almost no trouble interbreeding and are the best in the universe at “exploring.” And all that that implies.
In many Sci-Fi series humans are one of most adaptive species that within couple of years can reach impossible when faced certain doom. And then one of the civilisations that humans are afraid of in Star Trek is the Borg, or Replicators in Stargate that whole idea is that they can adapt in manner of seconds.
This scene instantly turned Soval into one of my favorite Enterprise characters; however, I couldn't help but wonder why it took so long for a Vulcan, any Vulcan, to admit that? So much tension could have been avoided.
The Vulcans choose to suppress their emotions while those that would become the Romulans embraced their emotions but fell to pride. Humans never tried to suppress their emotions but understood they could not be controlled by them either.
Gary Graham always brought along a sense of class to shows. Funny thing, he and Eric Pierpoint (Sec 31 Harris ENT)both starred in a cult classic series, Alienation in 89-90 and its movies.
Its not just the rapid advancement. Its humans ability to interact and empathize with other species that Vulcans cant wrap their heads around. Vulcans have been out there for centuries and have no good relationships with any species. At best they have a few diplomatic encounters. Humans went out there and immediately made allies and got everyone to put aside their differences and work together. The Vulcans could never have considered that as a possibility.
This could be the number one reason no alien species have contacted us. They see us and they fear us. Praying we never escape this little world of our and go out into the stars to spread our madness
A perfect motto for humans "if we don't know what we're doing the enemy won't either!"
A serious problem in planning against American doctrine is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine.
That's humanity in a nutshell when the rulebook doesn't seem to be working throw it out the window. & try something new cause what have you got to lose by trying.
As Kirk said "Our logic is to be illogical, _that_ is our advantage."
A very real strategy. One time, I was playing chess against a friend. I was using no particular strategy, as I do not know any. After eliminating my queen, he revealed that he had been using a defined strategy this whole time. Knowing this, I proceeded to make extremely erratic movements until I had completely thrown him off course, and then proceeded to win the game with my more fluid playstyle.
@J Mireles " You can never beat the American Army in war,"
Vietnam enters the chat
“Because there is one species you remind us of.”
‘Vulcans?’
“Romulans.”
‘Who?’
“Nev-, um, nevermind.”
Soval thinks (actually Pakleds, but I need to be polite)
Ah yes, the Romalin Star Empire.
I was thinking about Romulans
@@tomcat9727 You may want to rewatch the second episode of Enterprise Season 2.
Wow, great observation.
This is such a good scene. My favorite from Enterprise, and it doesn't even have anyone from the main cast.
but it had good writing ;)
Mine as well.
Q has said something similar to Picard in more than one occasion. Those are inspiring and optimist ways the writers found to make us think about our potential. I love it.
Yeah another "you humans are so clever and special" bit that sci fi nerds eat up with a spoon.
I actually laugh at this scene because at first I thought it was a great sign of respect from the Vulcans but then I remembered that Vulcans are dicks and I figured it out: The word Sovak is looking for is: "Gullible" because humans are so quick to trust some nice words just this scene proved it: he just said some nice words and the gullible humans believed him and will now have to live up to better standards.
Vulcan: We are scared of you humans.
Me: I’m scared of them too man
Ain't that the truth.
Why the hell we want to get off this rock for
To sleep with the Blue and Green women
@@TheOrangex88 who wouldn't
@@TheOrangex88Ahh.. James Tiberius Kirk, Fleet Admiral and Diplomatic Commodore. /Salute.
I just realized this is Star Trek's explanation of why every species encountered is a Planet of Hats.
Humans are the strange exception to this rule in the Star Trek universe. A species that does not conform to one doctrine or ideology.
I think the design of Enterprise (the show), is to look at humanity one piece at a time. That statement just verifies it for me
We humans have a tendency to stereotype other cultures. That's especially so in science fiction when it comes to alien cultures. When/if alien life is discovered, we'll realize the error in assigning human attributes and emotions to nonhuman species, much like we anthropomorphize animals.
@@outdoorsguy, yeah i agree, we do do a lot of assumptions and stereotyping, that's for sure
“You anthropocentric bag of dicks.”
-Claudia Black as Matriarch Aetheyta
Klingons not always were warriors as well as Vulcan used to be a very warrior clan like culture.
There is another reason they fear humans. Humans ride the tempest of their emotions and become stronger because of it. This is inexplicable to Vulcans; a non sequitur. What they don't understand is that their emotions are much *much* stronger than humans. Humans can give free vent to their emotions and still rule over those emotions. This is not possible for Vulcans. If they give free vent to their emotions, their emotions will rule them. Therefore those emotions must be ruled, lest they rule.
>This is not possible for Vulcans. If they give free vent to their emotions, their emotions will rule them. Therefore those emotions must be ruled, lest they rule.
Then how do you explain Romulans? They are still capable of rational thought and seem to have a firm handle on their emotions most of the time.
@@akiramasashi9317 Because Romulans went the way of the galaxy, by embracing select emotion. Their will to dominate and feel superior to everything and everyone. They don't embrace all of their emotions.
@@akiramasashi9317 And look at their society. It's warrior based. They will also cut hulls at the drop of a hat. They aren't as civilized as Vulcans. They are capable of rational thought, even with the emotions, but they are much less forgiving than humans or Vulcans.
@@kellyrayburn4093 That's mostly just the Tal Shiar. The reunificationists were much more civil.
@@akiramasashi9317 The reunificationists were more civil? Really? I suppose you consider what Sela did was civil. And she was a reunificationist. In any event, they still were a warrior society. They would sometimes duel and would practice tactics on practice targets and I would assume on holograms as well. They had an outlet so they wouldn't destroy their world, unlike the Vulcans.
I always enjoy the way humanity is presented in Star Trek: there's a kind of practical creativity to humanity that doesn't seem to be present in other races, and that's why humans seem to do so well in so many situations. Humans aren't the strongest, fastest, smartest, or most technologically advanced - but they're the most creative and adaptable, and that ends up being what you need most of all: not to be any one thing, not to have any one defining trait... but to be the most able to switch between whatever trait is most needed at that moment.
Darwinism at its finest
As Robert Heinlein concluded when expounding upon the same point; "...Specialization is for insects."
That's because we can only imagine in our sci fi variations of our own existence. Just like in starwars you see entire desert planets and ice planets, that are just variations of the biomes on our own planet.
@@mryellow6918 that has nothing to do with limited imagination. star wars specifically was limited by the technology of the time. the reason all of the planets were/are just variants of our biomes is that effects would have been prohibitively expensive trying to create entirely new biomes.
look at more recent sci-fi/sci-fantasy and you can see the difference. not in all of it, but in a lot of it. same goes for why nearly everyone was distinctly humanoid in star ward.
all that being said...we do see homogenous planets. Mars, for example. Not technically a planet, but our moon is also fairly homogenous.
True but we all have a core choice or promise that define the individual. No matter what we all try to make what person we wish to be work in any situation.
I always liked the idea that the humans in Star Trek are the galaxies mad scientists. That would also be a good explanation why starfleet ships always have to deal with weird stuff like those holodeck malfunctions.
that's just Humans being brilliant idiots and coming up wacky stuff because they want to know if it works or they are just bored
Not to mention transporter malfunctions...like when the pig-lizard turned inside out and exploded.
It's funny, because it's all just a biproduct of the other species simply being written in a two-dimensional way in the early years, as the goal was to present allegories for different aspects of humanity, rather that believable societies.
Are we the Doofenschmirtzes of the galaxy then?
@@InweTaralom ...maybe... but than where is Perry?
"We made it in a century because we wanted something better. To do something besides killing ourselves. Space seemed like the... logical choice."
We made it in a century because of a time ship that Captain Janeway stranded in the 20th century.
@@rekcusdoo good point!
That's why Vulcans hate us?
@@rekcusdoo
That was Braxton's fault. He, for whatever reason, had it in his head he could prevent a disaster by causing another one (Species 8472 overrunning the Galaxy comes to mind). If he had not tried to destroy Voyager FOR NO GOOD REASON, his ship would not have been stranded in the the late 20th century.
Frankly, Braxton was defective and had no business in Starfleet" or running a time ship at all, forget unsupervised.
Also this is why Star Trek should NEVER DO TIME TRAVEL.
@@DocWolph - Braxton was following orders... so your review of him is likely unfounded.
I feel like it should be pointed out that the statement of humans going from WW3 to interstellar travel within is, more than likely, not considered a good thing by Vulcan High Command.
Bevause it took Vulcans 1500 years to recover, they had a lot of time to virtually transform their species. The quick turnaround of Humanity, coupled with them only being marginally different in attitude compared to their time pre-warp travel, introduces a lot of uncertainty as to their mindset in that timeframe. Humanity has told itself "it'll be better this time" in the past many times only to eventually use their newfound understanding and technology to fight greater and bloodier wars. Except now with warp travel, they have the new ability to drive not just themselves into extinction but whole races alongside them.
And it's a question that probably persists more than two centuries later - as the mere threat of the Dominion caused Human space to fall into terror and paranoia, with a Starfleet coup almost installing a military dictatorship on Earth.
Well put.
Well the Vulcans didn't get a friendly hand up from a more technologically advanced species the way the humans did from the Vulcans.
Looking back as I watched this show as a kid, I'm amazed at how it awakened a sort of pro-human feeling in me early on. I hated the parts where the Vulcans basically played God and tried to control human development. If it weren't for humanity's willingness for cooperation, the Vulcans would've been seen as their tyrannical overlords instead of allies- look at how the Augments ended up when they tried to take over the world. We might not be their version of perfect, but this was humanity's future- not the Vulcans.
Archer's initial frustrations for their restrictions were actually justified.
Also consider the 200+ year lifespan of Vulcans. Between 2063 and 2373 is 310 years. That's 2, maybe 3, Vulcan lifespans. Fears and prejudices are changed only slowly, even slower with such long lifespans.
@@shawntco True, and Vulcans have shown that they hate being wrong, too.
Almost a throwaway scene, but this is the key to the Vulcan / Human dynamic in all of Star Trek.
It's why the two species rely on one another. Humans can understand emotions better than Vulcans because Vulcan emotions are just too chaotic for them to process. It's why they are so violent when they lose control or any form of balance they manage to achieve. "Calming down" is as difficult to Vulcans as it is for a Human to flip a car over with their bare hands. It's why they take Pon Farr so seriously as it's one of the few ways they can "vent" safely.
It's because of this understanding Humans have with emotions that they can embrace the Vulcan logic. It's why Hoshi goes to T'Pol for help in controlling her overwhelming fears since she knows T'Pol has an insight to control she lacks. And it works: with T'Pol help in making the emotions something tangible Hoshi doesn't erase her fear but control it. That helps her greatly as the series progresses. It's how T'Pol realizes that Humans can control their emotions if they're given the right reigns, but ultimately they have to hold onto them, not the Vulcans.
That's why Spock and Kirk have such a good dynamic: Kirk helps Spock understand the problem in front of him while Spock helps Kirk keep control of himself, but neither tell the other what to do, just gives the tools they need.
Spock: Captain, no.
Kirk: Why yes!
It's funny, you know. Because this vulcan essentually said that humans are more productive vulcans who need not restrict all emotions.
@@user-xw5xo3bv1n We mustn't forget that Vulcans were instrumental in helping Humans reaching the stars, while Vulcans themselves had no outside aid during their own crisis. Ambassador here was humble enough to acknowledge Human progress without mentioning that, because it's not Human advancement that impressed him, it's the Human traits.
@@Cyberium No they weren't. Humans invented warp on their own. That's the only reason the Vulcans talked to us.
"Vulcans themselves had no outside aid during their own crisis. "
total speculation on your part.
On DS9, Nog marveled at how the humans were able to advance so quickly as well. Apparently humans accomplished in a few thousand years what took the Ferengi 25,000.
Irrelevant. All that matters is short-term quarterly gains. :P
@Malk Von Batshit That's one of Star Trek's fundamental problems...they make the aliens a 'planet of hats', with each alien species being a pastiche of one specific human trait. It would be illogical, as the Vulcans would put it, to assume every Klingon is a warrior or every Ferengi is an amoral capitalist. Doing so makes the alien races two-dimensional instead of giving them the variety needed for depth and realism.
@@TheInfiniteSheldon continual short term gains brings long term positive results.
Not really, impressed by some things. But he remarks it did take 5000 years to develop a central banking system
@@TheInfiniteSheldon , and good quarterly dividends from those gains!!
"Are Vulcans afraid of humans?"
"Well, of all the species we have encountered, only 1 has been so intelligent, yet still so stupid, to not only detonate 1 nuclear warhead within their atmosphere, but to detonate dozens in a competition to make the biggest, for half a century"
"Yeah that was pretty cool."
'That wasn't a compliment on your species.'
"But big boom!"
@@Puddingskin01 yeah, we human like big boom
It's comforting to know that the people who made decisions like that are probably still somewhere in the deep state- lobbying complex, at the age of 106. And certainly their children are.
you mean thousands not dozens
you do know the volcans did the same to there world that's why he says you remind us of us
Honestly, Soval has a point. Humanity is a tricky beast at the best of times and a tricky beast is not one to be taken lightly.
It mostly has to do with the fact that every human has a dark side, but sadly, too many of us fail to control that side. There are even humans that embrace that dark side. That is what makes Humans unreliable as a whole.
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 it does. I think it is also telling that pretty much only Humans evolved on a fairly hospitable world. Andoria is a icy moon. Vulcan a desert planet of raging sandstorms and incredible heat. Qo'onos has extreme volcanism (I think). Earth, by contrast, is a paradise of a world, lush and green with plentiful water and vegetation. No wonder, then, that humans are so complicated.
"and a tricky beast is not one to be taken lightly." - different story but the Kzin sure found that out! 🙀
Yeah but he's not sure how to deal with a race. That has a wild range of emotions that they control. Can vent them when needed yet not be ruled by them. Vulcans as a whole can't stand being wrong about anything.
cringe
There are many sciencefiction stories in which humans rule supreme, are the dominant species or otherwise 'the best'
But in Star Trek, we're the weird ones.
Well in the mirror Trek we usually are the dominant most aggressive ones.
Don't agree. Most of the franchise is a human humble brag.
And still (almost) everyone looks like us
@@molybdaen11 maybe all Aliens are humanoids in the real Universe.
because,being born with hands is really useful to construct things 😐
@@ivanelias3916 You only say this because you were born with hands.
Mandribles for examples would work as well.
Or you could be a social species where individuals are always born as twins and act together as one.
Or you could have some kind of chemical reaction or magnetic field to move certain objects.
In our own evolution there are many ways which we could have evolved different.
But i have to admit - opposing thumbs are the easiest way you could move something.
And you hooked three warp drives into each other to turn a star into a torus, AND IT WORKED!!! ... AND WE *STILL* DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DID IT!!!
he he warp cores go brrrrrrr
To be fair, first we had to hook up 2 of them, punch a hole in the universe, travel to another universe with a more violent version of humans, beat them up (cause their violence offended us) steal their warp cores to get back, THEN we turned a star into a torus. Granted that was last week.
@@Riplee86 Right, right! I'd forgotten those steps. Thanks.
Excellent reference guys! Bravo!
Thank you. I came here for this.
"I guess we're just naturally talented. Stick with us, we're going places."
*finger guns!
Lolz ...
humans are a spectrum of destruction, we survive by destroying each other, no other sub species are designed to survive, but to thrive within one another, logic is never in our true nature, that is why humans are more frightening than a vulcan showing emotion
@@mmoarchives2542
There are other primates that fight wars, and kill each other. Chimpanzee and Apes both kill and eat each other .
It is in our nature.. but we are not alone.
@@kens97sto171 dude, we're talking about star trek dumbass, not reality, lighten up a bit
Gary Graham plays the Vulcan Ambassador Soval, with nuance and dimensional depth. Without a doubt, one of the best portrayals of a Vulcan across all of the Star Trek franchise. Jolene Blalock does a superb job, as well, when the writers gave some depth to her character as T'pol. When Soval and T'pol have a private scene together, it's as if we are eavesdropping on an unguarded Vulcan conversation, and see the nuances of their culture. Enterprise writers, took the Vulcan characters to a new level, that portends what humans might have to do in the future to survive self-extinction.
You write well and are spot on. I hope you are an author as well.
Isn’t Graham the same guy who played Detective Sykes (sp?) in Alien Nation the TV series?
@@qdllc Yes.
Yeaa, I don't think can stop it. It's like in our(overall humans) nature to destroy. Unless we all start thinking as one, we're doomed!😮
He’s great. One of the few Vulcans that doesn’t come across as a smug jerk.
Sounds like the same reason Q was fascinated by humans.
It has Picard and Data to explain us
Oh he was in stitches for a long time dealing with humans. Finding us amusing as hell in one moment, then about ready to press the button sending us to extinction the next. He finally got the idea that IDIC really did apply to us and let it be. One of the biggest discussions the Q Continuum had in a loong time.
@@Nighthawke70 De Lancie is awesome. Met him at a con years ago. He's funny as hell.
@@therealtampadude9175 and now he's back in Picard, involving everyone in a time travel plot, back to Earth's 20th.
Let's see how badly mangled this script is.
@@Nighthawke70 Picard is only good in season 3
In the Star Trek universe, this moment, actually explains a lot.
Every time I hear someone say the word Logic. I'm reminded what the 2nd Doctor said to Zoe in the Wheel in Space.
"Logic, my dear Zoe, merely enables one to be wrong with authority."
Got another one.
"The greatly stupid and the greatly powerful have something in common. They don't change their views to fit the facts. The alter the facts to fit their views. Which can ve uncomfortable if you happen to be one of those facts that needs altered."
"Doctor, how did you manage to figure out how that worked?"
"I use my own special method. I keep my mouth shut and my eyes open."
@@cunningsmile4166 can you give episodes for those quotes?
And the best one of all... "Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell...BAD."
-- Commander Spock, "I, Mudd".
@@CodeAndGin Changing views to fit the facts/changing facts to fit their views was a 4th Doctor episode, S14E04, part 4, "The Face of Evil" - just before Leela [under mind control] tries to shoot the Doctor.
Not sure about the other one.
the more you get to know Soval the more he seems a likable Guy.
The work relationship he had with Forrest shows that pretty well
Yes. It's like he's learning about humans and overcoming his arrogance and preconceived notions.
Admiral: "Ambassador, are Vulcans afraid of us?"
Ambassador: "Admiral, with respect, I distinctly heard a Human engineer on my way here. Do you know what she was contemplating? Out loud she wondered if we could tractor beam two stars together for, and I quote "Because that shit would be cool". Now do you understand?"
Admiral: "Oh Burke's plan? Okay in her defense, that shit would be kinda cool."
I mean she does have a point would be kinda cool.
There was a line from Starman. "You are at your very best, when things are worst." High praise indeed. And so very, very true.
No it isn't. It's absolutely not true. During the black plague, what did we do? We killed the cats. We blamed it on cats and we killed them. THAT'S what humans do when things are worst. Humans should be eradicated from the universe. But go ahead, give yourself a pat on the back for being so awesome in your own opinion, that's the level of humility one should expect from a filthy human after all.
@@medexamtoolsdotcom The cats carried fleas, and so were a carrier for the virus. The rats did also. So it wasn't out of line to kill the cats.
Do not push pinkskins to the thin ice.
I'm convinced the writers of this ep were author c clark fans. There is a short story by him written decades ago where a group of different alien species come to visit earth because they detected radio signals. The rest of the galaxy takes thousands of years to go from radio to space flight and they are astounded to find not only did it only take us a century but we have completely left the planet in non-ftl ships because of our sun going nova (the aliens were coming to save what they could).
The story ends with "and they laughed, wondering what such a primitive species would say to such advanced species coming to their rescue. 50 years later, they were no longer laughing".
What's the name of the story? Do you remember?
@@Mr__Singularity Rescue Party
@@buckaroobanzai7063 Thx
as much as I know flaws of Clarke writing I love his ideas and this is my beloved short story for writing and an idea! thx for reminding
@@buckaroobanzai7063 thanks, I had forgotten the name. One of the first Clarke stories I read. Still have the images in my head of the aliens walking through the abandoned cities on Earth wondering where the people are hiding, then noticing the radio telescope dishes all pointing in the same direction, sending telemetry to the fleet of Earth when the sun goes nova.
I suppose the reason humans are OP in the show is because they constantly get themselves into trouble, and thus constantly have to bail themselves out of trouble. They've essentially gotten really good at solving problems, by creating problems for themselves, intentionally or unintentionally.
RIP Gary Graham
"It took us 1,500 years to rebuild our world and travel to the stars. You humans did the same in less then a century..." In other words, we got in miles of our own shit and we weren't dense enough to figure it out...
That's because the Vulcans never invented shovels. So they weren't able to...wait for it..."shovel themselves out of the shit!"
Vulcans have 3x the human lifespan. It makes the Desert Planet Space Elves a bit stodgy compared to "lucky to live to 70 after a nuke war " humans
I love this scene, but I think I can define humans. Versatility. That is humans strength. Not locked down by one way of thinking but being versatile. The Vulcans needed 1500 years to rebuild through logic. We have logic, but with 'Klingon' passion, 'Andorian' arrogance, and 'Tellarite' stubborness, humans were able to do that in less than 100 years.
We're the Swiss army knife of species.
Yes versatility but the willing to accept the deference in our species is paramount, how are we able to reach out and make contact with a another species with out accepting their differences from us? Also I think its our adaptability to climate and terrain that has made us who we are as humans, There's very few places on earth that humanity has managed to survive in and create a culture.
I was going to post exactly that myself. Versatility. GJ.
Passion, arrogance and stubborness are the exact traits I'd expect from scientists capable of creating great things like the warp drive. The passion for their work, their arrogance of just believing they are the ones able to do it, the stubborness to push on through setbacks, and the inteligence to back it all up.
The defining attribute of humans is foolishness, for better or worse. We fear the unknown, but venture there anyway. We stupidly fake a smile, before we genuinely smile. We're driven by reward circuitry in the brain to be happy in ignorance, and yet we yearn for knowledge, a foolishness we'd rather call curiosity. On the other hand, the same foolishness makes us superstitious around the unknown, we refuse to smile despite the inner call to do so. We may also choose ignorance when knowledge is right in front of us. We're fools, not of a Took perhaps, but fools we remain - for better, or worse.
I really liked Soval. He actually cared about humanity, and was a bit of a helicopter parent.
But under it all was a real fondness for earth.
When you realize the script writers are humans you also realize we are just patting ourselves on the back.
Until a cat comes along
and puts us in our place. 🐈☺️
It's the same in almost every sci-fi series. Humans are the underdog, a jack-of-all-trades, always a newcomer to the galactic world but clearly on path to become the dominant ones one day.
Well we need it with most 21st century entertainment telling humans that we are crap.
@@voorachter2733We need more sci-fi and fantasy stories and settings that lean into Humans are Persistence Predators.
Like that one short story "We who Run (Chase)" - it's so rarely touched upon. Humans are always average, or curious, or innovators, or whathaveyou.
Nothing turns around and says "Humans start to get sore legs at the time other races collapse from total exhaustion, and can march four times further than that before exhaustion begins to truly set in."
@@Ciara1594
Puts us in our place? A little 10-pound fur ball? 😂 Bring it, kitty.
Rest Well, Ambassador Soval. 🖖🏿
Glad I met him.
Enterprise was a very underrated show. Like many good shows it takes a year or two to find its feet then settles in with many shows that tell good stories. I will never understand why Paramont didn't follow the example of The Next Generation Series and put all the series in syndication. Had they done that then I believe that Voyager and Enterprise would have been more successful and Enterprise may have gone on to the usual 7 year cycle.
Way too much time wasted on the temporal Cold War and xindi-chase nonsense, not enough scene setting.
@@IRMentat the Xindi story was fantastic!!
You're right! Of all the Star Trek shows shown, Enterprise and The Original Series (TOS) will always be my favorites.
It was okay, but if it had never had any of the time travel stuff in it.. it would have been brilliant!
Not Voyager. That show had plenty of time and still sucked.
Humans are fun. That is why Humans are the glue that holds the United Federation of Planets together. The Federation would not be as fun without Humans.
Humans are also the anomalous unifying force in Babylon 5, Halo and Mass Effect. Without humans and their meddling heroes those galaxies would've been devoured by ancient, hidden precursor aliens.
@@dareka9425 also have you noticed how all the aliens seem to want to mate and get naked with humans? That means Humans are awsome and everyone in the universe wants to party with us. Humans glue the galaxy together and goes everywhere sowing their wild oats with anyone who is in the mood.
@@dareka9425 I thought the Asari are the unifying race in Mass Effect.
@@dareka9425 Humans are overrated. A vulcan galaxy is much more fascinating. Because there will be those following new philosophies of embracing the better part of their emotion/instinct, eventually. Such things are part of intelligence, and shouldn't be supressed completely.
@@nagihangot6133 Most of the galaxy-saving bits in Star Trek were led by brash humans. Vulcans restricted races from traveling to the stars too quickly, humans rallied all the races to form the Federation. Spock couldn't even save their own planet, let alone the Romulan empire they promised to help.
This is cut, he's meant to say "I'm sure those qualities are found in every species"
“But not in such.....confusing abundance.”
Humans and ants have more in common socially than any other creature on earth. Take of that what you will, regardless, it's important.
@@Thulgore I mean only if your overly reductive. We don't have dedicated soldiers any human can be one, a good chunk of the world is democratic or at least not a hereditary dictator ship. we don't have truly communal young, we tend to pair off. most mammal family groups would be a better comparison for social structure, predatory pack animals or great apes would be closer still. the only thing we have more in common with ants than them is scale. Additionally agriculture is not a social trait but a prerequisite for a large colony of any sort as a stationary population has to renew food sources or starve.
Erlyk Dalkien I agree. And when we have a strong common goal we are basically unstoppable
@@arhalts
Our society is very close to ants though. Ants farm, they wage huge wars, they build up various departments to their colonies, all with a specific task in a functionalistic system of different organs. And even though the majority of the world today isnt a dictatorship or monarchy where one person has the highest power, it used to be like that for almost all our existence and is clearly just as natural of a system for us as concepts such as democrasy.
RIP, Gary Graham.
General: Oh well...you know thats not really fair. We had some future space engeneers helping cochram to rebuild his ship.
Soran: What? 🤨
General: What?
Forgot to mention the Borgs from the future
Starliner i resisted. Seems like it was futile.
@@Das_Kaenguru I wish I had a clever remark to that
Starliner wishing is irrelevant. Your humor will adapt to service us. Your remarks will be perfect once you are in the collective.
@@Das_Kaenguru lol I already serve the borg cooperative, not the collective
Despite this scene, the Vulans and Humanity have the closet relationship in the Federation. First Contact, Spock and Kirk best summarized this relationship. Even if Vulcan find us unpredictable and unruly in nature, they seem rather fond of humanity, seeing much of themselves in them and so decided to help them form a better world for their new allies.
The Humanity in Star trek is hard to classify.. But when you think about it, Humanity is like a binding agent. We are the glue that holds things together between the different races. We are capable of everything that all the different races in star trek are like. But we can work together with those other cultures. We can be isolationists, xenophobic and xenophiles all at the same time. We are pretty much a paradox of definition. Jack of all trades.
Humanity is basically the glue that holds the federation together in most of the series. (without knowing it even in the first TOS series...)
Interesting. This was also the point made by aliens about humans in Babylon 5. Delenn pointed out that only humans created mixed communities, so only they could have built Babylon 5.
"Are Vulcas afraid of humans?.........Why?"
Me: *shrugs* well I mean....."gestures widely to everything on earth"
“you humans did that in less than a century” probably with all of the normal human chaos and problems and conflicts still existing during that endeavor.
I think the reason that Humanity evolves technologically so fast is that Humans are infinitely curious and willing to try anything. That
curiosity and drive to know the unknown is what made Humanity advance so fast while other races were slower in their development, whether it was because they were held up by religious doctrine like the Voth, scared of going to fast like the Vulcans, consumed by war like the Klingons, etc, Humanity drive to discover the unknown allowed them to bypass anything that would slow down their development, hell the creation of the Federation, while made in order to unite races against a stronger threat like the Romulans, allowed Humanity to learn from all member races and to pool those races creativity to force a even greater technological leap then they or the other races could have done on their own.
Skaven do it better.
and humanity definitely doesnt time travel all the time... nope... not us... * inconspicuous whistling *
Humans really do run the gamut. You've got Stephen Hawking on one end, and some guy who drank his own pee on TV on the other.
They had very good reason to be afraid of us if the Humans of the Mirror Universe are any indication. He should just count himself he lives in the good Star Trek timeline.
in soval's defense, if I were in his position and I learned what humans did in a fraction of that time I'd be like holy shit how
Enterprise is the most underrated show of the Star Trek universe.. ended way to soon ..
That last episode makes me happy they didn't do any more; they'd just ruin it further.
True, almost all 96 episodes
They weren't afraid of us, they were terrified! 😂
One of my favorite moments from all of
Star Trek. Vulcans appear to look down on humans but hide their true feelings. They see themselves but without the need to rely on logic above all else.
It's Gary Graham, for those still wondering. Has played dozens of roles over the years, from hot-shot cops to Vulcan ambassadors.
I remember one scene where a landing party was in an ice cave with some nonhuman members. The humans were just fine but the others were suffering. Humans had long ago adapted to heat and cold. Not so the others.
Vulcans are the old men who are restrained because of experience.
Humans are the teenagers who just do things without regard of what could go wrong.
I love that they take the 1 quirk per race thing that resulted from the standalone episodic format, and actually made it a near galactic norm to explain why humans matter so much in galactic politics.
The human/vulcan relationship is like a tug-of-war. With the emotions humans able to pitch tons of solutions based on feelings and reason and vulcans eager to slap them down with brutal logic until both agree. Consensus between the two species is possible but you have to work for it.
The line that followed: "We only wish to be your partners in exploration, to work together in common cause." If humans ever indeed encounter peaceful extraterrestrials, who knows what changes will result in our world.
What we do to each other...an Alien race would be insane NOT to fear humans
@Anteep 😋👍👽💩🚀🛸
IT's part of why the klingons alternate between being at war with us and being bros with us.
@@TheKyrix82 kah plah. DUDE KAH PLAHH!😁
Soval, well he's not wrong.
Humans scare the hell out of me too and I'm Human.
And later, Vulcans wound up being one of humanities best friends.
To paraphrase LBJ: Better to have them in the tent, pissing out, than out of the tent, pissing in.
You know I have watched almost all the star trek series including this one. And I never thought of it this way. Never did I imagine the Vulcans feared us.
They feared what path humanity might take. It would have been SO EASY for humanity to go “The Vulcans won’t stop holding out on us? Won’t share their technology? We’ll have to take their ships by force, and they’ll never see it coming,” ESPECIALLY during the destruction of the Romulan War. Given how brash, irritable and angry much of humanity was over the Vulcans’ reluctance to share higher technology, they had very good reasons to be hesitant of that. Humanity could’ve so easily gone the way of the Terran Empire.
Little did the vulcans know. Theyd forge an alliance that would stand. Humans becoming the best ally the vulcans could ever call upon.
"Why would we worry you?"
"Dude, you guys nuked yourselves back to the Industrial age and then a guy built a Warp Drive out of scrap in his garage 80 years later."
The weird thing with humanity is that we have undeniably short lives. In the grand scheme of the cosmos our lives are short. Nearly a hundred years and in half that time our bodies degrade and become frail.
Humanity rides the high of our emotions. Almost paradoxically we're stronger because through emotion we gain a semblance of control as much as strength. This is what scares other species. Our capacity to not give a shit when faced with overwhelming odds coupled with our spiteful nature makes us incredibly unpredictable. Among other things.
By the standards of animals, we are wise and long-lived. Not the MOST long-lived, but well up there.
That's a common theme in fantasy writing as well. Human's due to their short lifespans compared to dwarves or elves, are always in a rush to do great things while they can. So we dabble in things we shouldn't as shortcuts. Sometimes it burns us badly and sometimes it works out.
The way humans are represented in Star Trek reminds me of Mass Effect. We're not the strongest or fastest or smartest, but what we are is by far the most creative and driven, a drive that could be easily mistaken for impatience. And that drive/impatience, coupled with our unmatched creative thinking, leads us to make progress at rates far beyond the rest of sentient life, and to create things other species would never even think of. And when other species see humanity just kind of show up and get to the point they're at in a fraction of the time it took them to get there, it's frightening because it makes them realize we might be able to surpass them just as quickly. Humans will make progress in a single lifetime that might take centuries for other species, and that's probably pretty intimidating.
A species that can expect to live what, 200, 300, 500 years or more on average will naturally make most advances far more slowly than a species with an average life expectancy of 100 years or less. That longer life span results in being that much more methodical in planning and study both.
That's a good point.
I love that Soval never actually said who humans actually remind him of, and let the admiral answer the question for him. Because of course it's actually Romulans who humans remind Soval of, but he can't say that.
Enterprise deserved one more chance. It took longer to hit its stride but it was actually going somewhere.
Logic saved us
Romulans: well hello there!
Perfect description of the human race. What doesn't kill us, only makes us stronger or madder
It makes us stronger AND madder.
I ignored this series when it was in production. But recently I watched the whole series in order via Paramount's online streaming service, and reached the conclusion that this series is very underrrated. It should have gone on longer by at least two more seasons. However it seems like it was carefully planned to last four seasons, no less and no more, from the very start. This gave it a continuity and integrity that is noteworthy.
"War is Chaos, and the US Military practices chaos on a daily basis."
-Some WW2 German General.
Did somebody say *CHAOS* ?
*BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!!!*
- Some random Khorne Beserker
As the Admiral figured out are that vulcan like species; you see the intense respect, almost to fear, in Soval's expression. He then explains how humans are superior. That expression is superb acting. Nowadays there's only mindless action and absurd circumstances.
Soval would be told to shut the fuck up and stop mansplaining by a female admiral
With explosions in the background
@@stevenobrien557 In the words of Saint Thunberg: "How DARE you!"... state the truth.
Very evocative scene. Makes me ask myself questions like, "Is that the cop from the Alien Nation TV series??"
Hell yes. Irony abounds. Met the guy back in the day. Spent so long talking with him about the show and the like.....I forgot to get him to signmy DVD OF the show. :(
Enterprise is actually pretty well overlooked and fits better to the continuity than we realize. At least better than STD... 😒
I mean, it's all a holodeck simulation written hundreds of years after the fact - so it's basically a playable historical novel. In that it's realistic in how unrealistic it is ;D
I’m just now realizing that the acronym for Discovery is STD. I think it’s quite fitting.
Happypanda AJ Yup! lol I hope it trends if it hasn’t already! 😁
@@HappypandaAJ I mean, consistent with the other acronyms (TNG, VOY, DS9, ENT) it should be - and probably is - DIS. But I think STD is a better fit, too :D
S4 Enterprise was really really good and I still feel cheated we never got a 5th season. We were SO CLOSE to the first Romulan War, Refit NX-01, a pleasant ret-con of the finale episode, all of it.
It is a very good scene. Us humans move on faster than Vulcans due to having half the life span
So... To reach warp capability faster we should reduce human lifespans. I'll do my part by eating only bacon and ice cream and never exercising. When people tell. Me to eat healthier I'll say "I'm doing this for scientific progress!"
"A tree whos branches seek to rise to heaven must by necessity have roots that stretch to the depths of hell"
I'm afraid of humans too.
Yeah just goes to show the Vulcans are pretty good judges of character.
Yup, seeing a human at night on an empty street? terrifying
No kidding. Seeing how little fucks we can give for each other's human rights and how much we 'value' human life is terrifying.
Just look up "humans are space orcs"
BOO!
If aliens do exist, and are watching us, it would only be for the fascination of how quickly we progress despite our many failings. It's like thousands of years of technologically dragging our feet, and suddenly, within a century, we go from covered wagons to jet airplanes.
The only thing more fascinating than that is how frightening it is!
This clip from Star Trek: Enterprise reminds me of Babylon 5 in that even the Vulcans understood that the human race's potential for destruction was legendary. Humans...heh. If there is one thing that we are good at, one thing all other alien races can agree on, is that we are just so fucking good at killing.
I'm reminded of Galactic Civilizations. Humans are seen as (and mechanically are) the greatest diplomats in the galaxy. Many of the aliens miss the fact that humans were basically forced to become so to keep from wiping ourselves out with our warlike nature.
It's amazing how quickly that advantage can exponentially grow into every other kind of advantage in the game if you play it right.
Reminds of the Fourth Doctor saying. "The human ability for self-deception is only matched by its ability to destroy itself."
There are things in the Universe billions of years older than either of our races. They are vast, timeless, and if they are aware of us at all, it is as little more than ants and we have as much chance of communicating with them as an ant has with us. We know. We've tried and we've learned that we can either stay out from underfoot or be stepped on. They are a mystery and I am both terrified and reassured to know that there are still wonders in the Universe, that we have not explained everything. Whatever they are, Miss Sakai, they walk near Sigma 957 and they must walk there alone."
Ambassador G'Kar,
We are very good at exploring and settling issues too, we are also very passionate creatures, everyone who describes humans as only violent choose to ignore the glorious things about our species
In a similar vein, in the Terminator 2 movie, one of the best movies ever made, the Terminator tells the young John Connor, "It is in your nature to destroy yourselves.". This is so accurate it's frightening.
This single one minute scene is exactly what old Trek is about something which appears lost on new Trek.
This scene is better than all of Discovery and Picard combined
I think this is where Vulcans and Humans truely began to understand one another.
Well at least we know why they are so afraid of us Humans is because we both had our share of devastating consequences.
yet we accomplished in a century what they couldn't do in a millennium
@@k1productions87 You do got a point there.
Is technology the benchmark of accomplishment when the metric is how dangerous/fear-inducing a species is?
@@nickmalachai2227 What makes a species dangerous is not as much about their technology level, but what they do with it.
@@k1productions87 exactly. The Vulcan fear is that humans will be a species with the technological capability of altering entire star systems, and the lack of moral/ethical framework to not weaponize it.
No wonder the Vulcans needed 1500 years for this, because if you live strictly logically and put your feelings away, good feelings like passion and the good feeling when you have achieved something are also lost. Human passion is not always a good feeling, but when it serves a good cause, humans are unstoppable through their passion and through their positive motivation. Humans achieve their goals through passion.
I just binged all 4 seasons of Enterprise. It holds up well. It was better than it was given credit for at the time.
This is one thing that Star Trek did well on multiple occasions, discussing humanity from an outside perspective. Some of my favorite scenes from DS9 involve Quark and/or Elim Garak doing just that.
That's because, in the face of death/near-extinction, we humans *WILL* put aside racial/ideological differences in order to survive. Something Vulcans never understood. . .
Yup, vulcans needed to ban emotions alltogether because they couldn't figure out how to use them in moderation. That is probably what the ambassador is actually afraid of - that we are able to harness and use our emotions.
Maybe Star Trek humans, not humans today that's for sure. We find groups of people to demonize in every adverse event we face, no exceptions.
Covid and climate change are proving the opposite. We'll meet our extinction with half of humanity believing its a liberal hoax until they die.
Well, it should be no surprise to any Trekkie out there that the show has a heavy liberal bias... I mean, they aired both an interracial and a lesbian kiss during times these weren't considered ... shall we say ... presentable?
Trump 2020
Humans in the Vulcan logic sense could be considered: "A pre Surak distant cousin". So much like them, but so different. In the non canon book "Vulcans Glory" it tells of the horrifying wars Vulcan faced. And how similar human culture was to their own. Both were violent, angry, always seeking wars and some kind of "trigger" to get everyone divided and pointing fingers. Passages include: "A pumped laser beam through the eye" "ShiKahr faces nuclear retaliation from neighboring Raal after talks break down over a territorial dispute".
In fact, Surak was a computer expert. His family was extremely wealthy and important as a prime contractor for computer technology throughout the Vulcan Solar System. His family's inventions include neural interfaces for computer to "virtual world" via the Psi abilities Vulcans possess. Holo networks and direct mind news and entertainment feeds. And of course neural attack blockers and psionic attack resistance to the Vulcan Military. Surak had these installed at great expense to protect him and others from psionic adepts and trained weapons.
Basically, Vulcan of the Pre Surak Era were Cyberpunk personified!!! Swords alongside phasers, traditional armor but resistant to slug throwing, energy, and even Psi wave attack. In the book (The Devils Heart)Surak lost several brothers just after the Festival of Moons (Vulcan was renowned for its festivals to every god, spirit, and anything worth drinking and fighting at) and a full fight on the Ichaya Plains. Where a young Surak sat in the cold desert, being warmed by the powerful Devils Heart (Ko'n'ya in Vulcan) considering the waste of lives and the pain of it all. It was where his philosophy was born. To end the desires themselves. While the Devils Heart eventually left Vulcan and helped build the Romulan Empire. Surak could have ruled Vulcan, raised his brothers from the dead, and struck down all his enemies. But he chose the way of logic, not power.
This reminds me of Keevam, the Vorta from DS9's Rocks and Shoals. He says to Sisko, "I bet you've brought one of those starfleet engineers that can turn rocks into replicators."
"If you know you're fighting a human, you know you'll never know with whom you're fighting"
Enterprise is such an under-rated series, it really does flesh out the trek universe. I really need to watch it again, not for the regular characters(which there are some really damn good ones) but for the secondary characters like this. Also I love Shran, the story arc with that blue bastard and Archer was AMAZING.
Same here. Shran was Awesome! Jeffery Combs is such a great actor. Weyoun! And Quarks nemesis from the FCA! ALL great characters, but Shran is the best! He just cannot quite understand those darn pink skins!🤣🤣🤣🤣
RIP Gary Graham.
In Star Trek lore, humans are like literally everything in the universe. They are even genetically compatible with all humanoid species. They have almost no trouble interbreeding and are the best in the universe at “exploring.” And all that that implies.
Actually they do. It's addressed a few times. But medical science is such that it's "easy enough" to fix.
In many Sci-Fi series humans are one of most adaptive species that within couple of years can reach impossible when faced certain doom.
And then one of the civilisations that humans are afraid of in Star Trek is the Borg, or Replicators in Stargate that whole idea is that they can adapt in manner of seconds.
Loved this show. It deserved better than it got.
This scene instantly turned Soval into one of my favorite Enterprise characters; however, I couldn't help but wonder why it took so long for a Vulcan, any Vulcan, to admit that? So much tension could have been avoided.
The Vulcans choose to suppress their emotions while those that would become the Romulans embraced their emotions but fell to pride. Humans never tried to suppress their emotions but understood they could not be controlled by them either.
Gary Graham always brought along a sense of class to shows. Funny thing, he and Eric Pierpoint (Sec 31 Harris ENT)both starred in a cult classic series, Alienation in 89-90 and its movies.
Its not just the rapid advancement. Its humans ability to interact and empathize with other species that Vulcans cant wrap their heads around. Vulcans have been out there for centuries and have no good relationships with any species. At best they have a few diplomatic encounters. Humans went out there and immediately made allies and got everyone to put aside their differences and work together. The Vulcans could never have considered that as a possibility.
They are wise to be cautious, but foolish to be afraid. Great video.
This could be the number one reason no alien species have contacted us. They see us and they fear us. Praying we never escape this little world of our and go out into the stars to spread our madness
He sounds more jealous than fearful.