The scene in CJ’s office is absolutely brilliant acting once Toby admits to the leak. How much was said without saying anything was genius. CJ so desperately wanted to talk to him and the apologetic look in Toby’s eyes as he watched her wrestle with that was incredible. But I also think CJ knew he was there to tell her in the first place. Her nervous energy and stream of consciousness dialogue as she fiddled with the champagne suggests she knew but wanted to keep him from saying it for as long as she could. Like if she just kept talking, maybe he would change his mind and not tell her so they could just be friends and colleagues. And when Toby drops the hammer, she just stops as if to say, “well, there it is,” knowing she wasn’t going to be able to stop the admission from coming. Janney and Schiff were the two best actors on the show and when together like that, it is pure genius. This also shines brightly in a later episode when CJ goes to visit Toby and they reconcile a bit. Pure genius acting.
@@EtoileLion Toby writing the info down rather than saying it aloud is clearly a joke about keeping them as indistinguishable as possible. The best part of this whole plot.
If the clip could have been 15 seconds longer my favorite part is when Oliver looks at Mike (the other lawyer) to get out and he just slumps, disappointed he can't stay for the grilling (no dialogue). Love that these clips have been coming during the last couple months.
I may be in the minority here but I think that this was EXACTLY what Toby would do. The last episode of season one, there was a story where it turns out Toby’s estranged brother was a NASA astronaut who was on a mission where the shuttle could not return to Earth because the payload bay doors wouldn’t close. The astronauts on board were able to fix the problem and the shuttle landed safely. A few years later, Toby’s brother was diagnosed with cancer and committed suicide. So a short time later when the space station developed the air leak and the astronauts onboard were trapped with no way off, CJ asked Toby if his brother ever heard of a military space shuttle, Toby decided to leak whatever his brother had told him. I could see Toby leaking the information. Out of respect for his dead brother. Where this story arc fell short was the fact that the space station astronauts had no way of getting off the station in an emergency. They would have had a Russian Soyuz docked at the station just for emergencies.
FWIW, I'd agree. Admittedly the office scene there can easily be read as Toby challenging CJ to accept his admission (to save her). But my gut says in the end Toby would have leaked. Because he thought it was the right thing to do. (I like this arc because in the end, both sides are right. The existence of a military space shuttle is morally dubious and strategically foolhardy, and doesn't justify letting good people die to protect. But to leak it entirely off your own bat is - as I think Barlett accuses Toby of being - incredibly arrogant).
I agree. The President, while firing Toby, correctly said ‘this was inevitable’… Toby was going to eventually do something that crossed a line. Toby is a very good man with lots of personal demons. And it’s important that Bartlet pardoned him at the end of the series and everyone reconciled.
@@ruthmeb Only because the writers don't actually put someone against him that knows anything. Its easy to think he is always right when the other side doesn't put up a fight. He is great at demanding the Constitution be adhered to when it benefits him, but should be ignored because the "people" want something.
I know we all hate what the writers did. But it is what it is. For what it's worth, Richard Schiff justified it in his head by saying Toby did it to save lives. I can live with it. Worse decisions have been made on other shows. What matters is Bartlett and Toby reconciled. What I think made this situation particularly tragic is that Toby recruited CJ. Bartlett, Leo, and the rest of the team never would have even known her if it wasn't for Toby. Imagine how it must have felt to not only be promoted over him, but to also be the one to outlast his status with the staff.
Leo knew who CJ was. He's the one who sent Toby to get her to join the team. I don't think he had any animosity toward CJ for being promoted to chief of staff, either.
I don't think Toby ever had any animosity towards CJ for becoming COS and not him because Toby may have known he wasn't COS material since when Leohad his heart attack he told Josh he was trying to get the president to name Josh as (temporary) COS and not him.
I believe while Toby told CJ he was talking to her under instructions from Leo, he shortly thereafter said that wasn't really true... This is based on uncertain memory, I don't have access to the episode right now.
Toby was a man of principle; it's just that those principles didn't always line up with the politics of a situation, nor with the law. And, for a good cause, he was willing to do against the politics and the law. We saw a very tiny glimpse of this when he authorized the funeral for that homeless soldier. Jed was ready to rip him a new one on that, until he found out exactly what it was for. It's entirely possible that, given the stranded astronauts, he felt that the principle of saving lives was more important than the principle of maintaining secrecy about a military space shuttle that was likely already known to any number of the various countries that have competent intelligence agencies. That being said... there's a lot unsaid in that scene between him and CJ. If Toby _were_ going to take the fall for someone, he wouldn't want there to be any possibility that there would be any indication that I was doing that. Nothing that could possibly come out in an investigation. So he wouldn't go in there and say, "CJ, we'll just tell them I did it. Okay? You get to keep your job, you get to stay out of jail. I'll say it was my idea, that I leaked it to Greg Brock. As far as you're concerned, I just walked in here and confessed to you." No... he'd just confess, as though it were the truth all along, and leave it up to her to figure out what he was doing. And it would have played out exactly like we just saw, anyway. And CJ would never be able to testify to anything other than that. That would _also_ have fit with the facts, *but it would be less like Toby to do that.* For a while I was in the camp of those who thought for sure that he was being noble, that he saw the circle being drawn tighter and tighter around CJ and felt compassion for his friend, that he had brought into the campaign in the first place, and gave her a way out. But I have since come to realiza that Toby's principles wouldn't have allowed him to do that. At some point, Lawrence O'Donnell is going to have to answer for this. I'm guessing that he wrote himself into a corner and this was the only way out that he could see.
I'm still pissed at the producers for this story line. I do not for a second believe Toby would be capable of this. As for the idiots who think CJ did it and let Toby take the fall, get your heads out of your asses and go back and watch the series.
I was in politics for over 20 years. I TOTALLY believe that Toby was capable of it. His personality alone tells me it. Remember when he totally flipped out on the president for not invoking the 25th amendment when he was shot and Leo was basically running the country for the time Jed was in surgery. Toby was a man of VERY strong convictions and was not afraid to take action when he personally felt something was not right.
@@chrism6315 You and I can argue about that all day long. The person who would know best is Richard Schiff. Go check out what HE had to say about it. Hint: He thought it was total BS.
I will never understand the decision to have Toby be the leak. It ruined the show-not destroyed it, but forever dulled The West Wing's shine, which was already fading after Arron Sorkin left. Richard Schiff wasn't the heart of the show. He was its spirit. When he disappeared to the very edges of Mandy-ville, the show was less for it.
Richard Schiff hated with the passion what the writers & producers did to Toby. This kind of thing goes entirely against what Toby believes and backstabbing not just CJ & the others but the President too.
@@andrewroberts8139 not saying Toby’s right or wrong, just saying it’s completely within his character to throw out any rule, any loyalty, if it means Toby gets to be right
Here's the possibilities: Either Toby was the leak or he was protecting the real leak or Toby knew by confessing the leak investigation would stop and Leo wouldn't be forced to testify which Toby pointed out would have ended the Santos campaign.
Could we please get some of the many wholesome, brilliant, witty, brave, principled, and loving Toby moments seasons 1-4? There are SO many. Dad Toby would be a plus too :)
I always wondered how the cast themselves acted or felt AFTER they got a look at that episode's script and realized, "oh chit, a bomb is about to go off" ?
I disagree that it is an odd thing for his character. Sometimes he considered himself morally superior to everyone else and combined with his brother’s death he could do such a thing.
I didn't buy it either. Toby made such a stink when Bartlett was shot, the whole "there was a coup d'etat in this country!" he was too much of a stickler for the rules to do this. Worst plot line of the later seasons.
@@redlion145 Was he a stickler for the rules or did he just consider himself superior as the only rules follower? If you look at his reaction when Bartlett came clean to him about MS it is perfectly in character for that person to blab especially if he thought it was morally wrong to have military space shuttle.
Toby never betrays the president like this. Ever. CJ doesn't betray the president like that, either. And given that the two of them were really the last ones from that team that got Bartlet to the White House, the fact that it was ever considered possible for either of them to leak this information was always absurd. The writers blew this story line right from the start. It should have always been someone at DOD.
@@jasonkoch3182I think you're overlooking what happened to Toby's brother. His brother nearly having an accident in space, Toby knows what it's like for families on ground living through an incident in space. Then Toby had the absolute trauma of having his brother killing himself, we saw how much that affected him in season 6. Then he sees a situation where other families went through the exact thing he went through and here is a covert military shuttle, which may be illegal given international law, we never find out it's capability or purpose, could be used to save them and the President isn't considering it as an option. In his eyes, it's the President betraying him first, not the other way around.
@@TehCheese Exactly. It was his brother's story that made it understandable that Toby was the leaker. Toby knew the stress of having a family member out in space and he was shaken to the core after his brother's suicide. He couldn't let another astronaut die when there was something he could do to prevent it. I was more angry that he let his friends go through hell before he confessed. He even let the reporter he leaked it to go to prison for 18 months.
@@jasonkoch3182 Or the leak could have been Secretary of Defense Hutchison because he was a recurring character for many seasons,So that way the leak could have been someone the viewers knew but could live without.As for Toby, since Richard Schiff only agreed to be in half of season 7's episodes simce he wanted off The West Wing the show could have written Toby off by him by after him losing his brother deciding to focus on his family and be a full-time father to his kids and get out of politics,Plus then Will still could have been hired to replace Toby.
Richard Schiff didn’t like this storyline either. He said in an interview Toby would have never, not in a million years, betrayed President Bartlett like that.
Even with an alleged cantankerous personality, I still would marry a Toby. I just love his sass so much, I even like his arrogance. But it's not just these things, he has kindness & love in his heart which he isn't able to express with words, despite of being a professional speechwriter. He's a coconut, hard exterior & soft interior. I recently started watching "The Good Doctor" and the introductory scene of Dr. Aaron Glassman was so eerily similar to Toby's introduction on "The West Wing", especially the tone of it, blew my mind.
I know Toby being the leak is controversial but it is something I can possibly see him doing. I remember that amazing scene where he confesses to CJ that his brother had killed himself and you can see how heart broken he is over losing him that way. Grief can do terrible things to people, make them say and do things they wouldn't normally do. That said Toby placed a high value on loyalty so for him to betray the President and everyone else is hard to accept. My personal view is that it wasn't Toby but his sister-in-law. Just like Toby's brother David told him about the military shuttle he also told his wife. She is also grife stricken and see's news of the trapped astronauts and knows there is a way to save them. Unlike Toby she has no direct loyalty to the administration so she leaks it. Toby probably realized exactly who it was so stays quite since its family. The investigation focuses on the West Wing but it is based on the false assumption that no one else knew about the military shuttle. Once it becomes clear that the investigators are going to go after CJ and knowing how this will hurt not only the Bartlet administration but the Santos campaign Toby decides to fall on his sword. He can't say who really did it since it would result in his brothers widow being arrested and his brothers children effectively becoming orphans. Toby knows that he has a 50/50 chance of getting off because of his political connections but the odd of being able to get his sister-in-law off would be very low. Toby loved his brother and would never have risked any harm coming to David's widow or children. For his family I think he would have sacrificed himself and confessed to the leak but that's just my opinion.
I've read numerous discussions about whether Toby was actually the leak or whether he was take one for CJ (who was much more likely to be the leak - at least the evidence was pointing that way). CJs reaction doesn't really suggest that he was covering for her. Although when she visits his house later in the final season there are small hints. Seems to the writers weren't being clear enough about what happened here?
I agree This plotline & the campaign trail Didn't interest me at all. Rewatched other seasons multiple times but season 7 only once, that too for the sake of completing the show.
Toby already hired a lawyer, who would have told him to keep his mouth shut and not say anything to anyone (remain silent). The White House Council is not Toby‘s friend. The White House Counsel is there to protect the White House, not the people who work in it.
This always happens in final seasons of long running shows, the writers are rushing thru loose plotlines and trying to get a final conclusion, also I do remember the news at the time that this show had a very large cast, decreasing viewership and they were cutting the budget to a minimum, so instead of entirely writing off one or two actors, some characters would need to disapear several episodes in that last season... the passing of John Spencer didn't help either...
Post-Sorkin the writers destroyed Toby, they had no idea what do with the character. Everyone had a part to play in the post-Sorkin era, Toby didn't. So they dawdled with Toby, he'll give some funny press conference, waste time with Annabeth, nothing substantial. They had no understanding of his personality, to them he was a piece of furniture that they tried to adjust in various settings. All the people in the Bartlett WH were loyal to country or party, but they were more loyal to Bartlett. Their agenda was always "Bartlett on the top" others be damned. But in a situation if there was someone who had something left for the country, Bartlett be damned, it was Toby. He was the moral compass of the administration. Saying that, Toby still had loyalty & respect towards Bartlett, and as a loyal employee and advisor the writers destroyed his credibility with this nonsense "shuttle leak" story. They were like not everyone can come out from this unscathed, someone has to have something bad going on to bring in the ratings so let's make that useless furniture, what's his name again... Oh! Toby yaaa... lets make Toby fall on the sword, it'll be fun.
I'm still new to this show, and haven't watched up to this episode, but I'm confused. Many of the clips I've seen on this channel make me think thst the original idea had been that it was CJ and that someone decided writing out her character was a mistake very late in the process. Thus making a real mess of a bad storyline and writing out one of my favorite characters.
Everyone saying this plot line makes no sense doesn’t understand Toby’s character: he’s the diehard ideologue to Josh’s pragmatic realism. Toby would break every law and unwritten rule in the book in pursuit of what his hyperliberal beliefs said was “right” and to hell with everyone else
Is there a paragraph person around? I understand the astronaut/ shuttle problem but why would cj be suspect? And why did Toby finally confess? Did he resign and not be prosecuted? Thanks in Advance!
Toby confessed because they were coming for CJ. Evidence was pointing toward her. He confessed simply to prevent her from being arrested. As for why CJ was suspected. Evidence was pointing toward someone in the West Wing and CJ just found out about the military shuttle and had a good working relationship with the reporter who the story was leaked to. She was the most likely suspect, and the evidence was supporting it. If Toby wouldn't have fessed up, it probably would have ruined her career, even if nothing came of it. Toby was fired and was going to be prosecuted, but President Bartlett's last act before leaving office was a pardon.
Do you think CJ turned on Toby too quickly? From Bartlet loyalty or upset of being a suspect? And are WH counsel that well trained in a security matter?
@@bgold2007 Well i'm sure CJ wasn't happy with Toby for letting people think she was the leak and maybe CJ knows that if Tobu had confessed sooner maybe she could have done something to help him.
CJ would've seen leaking as betraying Leo and the office he entrusted her with and recommended her for, which she never would've done. Toby also wasn't the leak. The better (fan) theory is that it was Andy, Toby's wife, who had clearance, or Toby might've told her. Toby fell on his sword for *two* women, because in the absence of someone confessing, they were clearly setting CJ up as the sacrificial lamb. What you're seeing here is CJ torn between being glad that she won't have to fend off the jackals who are coming for her but also coming to terms with the betrayal and knowledge that Toby just ended his career.
If i remember correctly Toby confessed right after he found Leo was going to be forced to testify about the leak.So the way i see it Toby confessed to save Leo and not CJ.
They didn't know what to do with Toby so they flung him around being the press secretary for 2 seconds, then this leak crap. Then he vanishes for a huge chunk of the last 2 seasons except to make Josh's life tougher.
It wasn’t that Toby knew that was the problem; it’s that he told a reporter about it. CJ talking to Tony about is was fine, Toby talking to a journalist was leaking classified military intelligence
As much as I love the show I hated this non sensical story arc. There was a heart rending plot where Toby could have leaked the story logically and this was not it. I think they couldn't find enough to write about besides Smits running for president and didn't work on this enough.
Just because we didn't see it didn't mean Toby didn't spend time with his kids.Plus since Toby's kids were twins if i remember maybe the show could find twin babies to play Toby's children
This plot turn ruined the entire run of the program for me. To be the source of a leak would be so very out of character for Toby. This sort of bad writing would not have happened if the producers would have just made Aaron Sorkin an offer deserving of his vast contribution to the show. Dumb, dumb, dumb... My advice to fan of TWW is to stop watching after Sorkin's departure.
The worst storyline in all seven seasons. It also had zero suspense - because the flash forward at the start of that season showed Toby at the opening of the Bartlett Presidential library - clearly still on good terms.
I might be the only one who's fine with them doing this to Toby. He was arrogant and pompous, he was exactly what people mean when they say "liberal elite". He absolutely would've done the leak because he knows better than everyone else
Agreed. I came to love Toby over the run of the show, but he was the most arrogant character. At the time, and still now, I think he did it because of his love for his brother, which I could understand.
The whole secret shuttle never made sense. There is no way a launch can take place anywhere on the globe without being observed by someone or something. The first time it was used, it would never be a secret again.
That was. The exact plot of the show. That was the dilemma. Did you even watch it?!?! You are literally describing the plot as if it’s some grand epiphany you are having
non verbal communication is the HEIGHT of acting. these two said _tons_ without words.
The scene in CJ’s office is absolutely brilliant acting once Toby admits to the leak. How much was said without saying anything was genius. CJ so desperately wanted to talk to him and the apologetic look in Toby’s eyes as he watched her wrestle with that was incredible. But I also think CJ knew he was there to tell her in the first place. Her nervous energy and stream of consciousness dialogue as she fiddled with the champagne suggests she knew but wanted to keep him from saying it for as long as she could. Like if she just kept talking, maybe he would change his mind and not tell her so they could just be friends and colleagues. And when Toby drops the hammer, she just stops as if to say, “well, there it is,” knowing she wasn’t going to be able to stop the admission from coming. Janney and Schiff were the two best actors on the show and when together like that, it is pure genius. This also shines brightly in a later episode when CJ goes to visit Toby and they reconcile a bit. Pure genius acting.
eggzackly
Well said. I had the same thoughts.
“I was curt and dismissive.” How could Toby pull that off?!😂
Sorkin sent Richard an apology when he learned of this. “I heard what they are doing to your character and I’m sorry.”
It was a crappy thing to do to Toby, but we got some nice acting out of it at least.
The most impressive thing is Toby was able to give Ed and Larry’s separate extension numbers.
did Ed and Larry even have separate extension numbers?
Did Ed and Larry have last names? :p
@@EtoileLion Toby writing the info down rather than saying it aloud is clearly a joke about keeping them as indistinguishable as possible. The best part of this whole plot.
@@EtoileLionthis is what I’m saying!
If the clip could have been 15 seconds longer my favorite part is when Oliver looks at Mike (the other lawyer) to get out and he just slumps, disappointed he can't stay for the grilling (no dialogue). Love that these clips have been coming during the last couple months.
I may be in the minority here but I think that this was EXACTLY what Toby would do. The last episode of season one, there was a story where it turns out Toby’s estranged brother was a NASA astronaut who was on a mission where the shuttle could not return to Earth because the payload bay doors wouldn’t close. The astronauts on board were able to fix the problem and the shuttle landed safely. A few years later, Toby’s brother was diagnosed with cancer and committed suicide. So a short time later when the space station developed the air leak and the astronauts onboard were trapped with no way off, CJ asked Toby if his brother ever heard of a military space shuttle, Toby decided to leak whatever his brother had told him.
I could see Toby leaking the information. Out of respect for his dead brother.
Where this story arc fell short was the fact that the space station astronauts had no way of getting off the station in an emergency. They would have had a Russian Soyuz docked at the station just for emergencies.
FWIW, I'd agree. Admittedly the office scene there can easily be read as Toby challenging CJ to accept his admission (to save her). But my gut says in the end Toby would have leaked. Because he thought it was the right thing to do.
(I like this arc because in the end, both sides are right. The existence of a military space shuttle is morally dubious and strategically foolhardy, and doesn't justify letting good people die to protect. But to leak it entirely off your own bat is - as I think Barlett accuses Toby of being - incredibly arrogant).
I agree. The President, while firing Toby, correctly said ‘this was inevitable’… Toby was going to eventually do something that crossed a line. Toby is a very good man with lots of personal demons. And it’s important that Bartlet pardoned him at the end of the series and everyone reconciled.
The choice to do Toby dirty like this is worse than anything in season 5. F this plot. Toby deserved better.
Richard schiff was told that the reason they were reducing his character lines was down to budget cuts. Really hated what they did to his character
It is a rare departure from the general brilliance of the show.
It does fit in with his sanctimonious attitude that he knows better than anyone else.
@@tomb7942 Because he usually does.
@@ruthmeb Only because the writers don't actually put someone against him that knows anything.
Its easy to think he is always right when the other side doesn't put up a fight.
He is great at demanding the Constitution be adhered to when it benefits him, but should be ignored because the "people" want something.
4:40 It's not Toby being the leak that ruins it for me, it's that Babish asked for EdandLarry's last names. Everyone knows they don't have any.
Lol.
i'm sure they have last names, its just that only their mothers actually know them.
I know we all hate what the writers did. But it is what it is. For what it's worth, Richard Schiff justified it in his head by saying Toby did it to save lives. I can live with it. Worse decisions have been made on other shows. What matters is Bartlett and Toby reconciled. What I think made this situation particularly tragic is that Toby recruited CJ. Bartlett, Leo, and the rest of the team never would have even known her if it wasn't for Toby. Imagine how it must have felt to not only be promoted over him, but to also be the one to outlast his status with the staff.
Leo knew who CJ was. He's the one who sent Toby to get her to join the team.
I don't think he had any animosity toward CJ for being promoted to chief of staff, either.
The secret shuttle and the secret plan to help the economy. What other secrets are there lurking about?
I don't think Toby ever had any animosity towards CJ for becoming COS and not him because Toby may have known he wasn't COS material since when Leohad his heart attack he told Josh he was trying to get the president to name Josh as (temporary) COS and not him.
He got pardoned, and became a respected doctor
I believe while Toby told CJ he was talking to her under instructions from Leo, he shortly thereafter said that wasn't really true... This is based on uncertain memory, I don't have access to the episode right now.
Toby was a man of principle; it's just that those principles didn't always line up with the politics of a situation, nor with the law. And, for a good cause, he was willing to do against the politics and the law. We saw a very tiny glimpse of this when he authorized the funeral for that homeless soldier. Jed was ready to rip him a new one on that, until he found out exactly what it was for.
It's entirely possible that, given the stranded astronauts, he felt that the principle of saving lives was more important than the principle of maintaining secrecy about a military space shuttle that was likely already known to any number of the various countries that have competent intelligence agencies.
That being said... there's a lot unsaid in that scene between him and CJ. If Toby _were_ going to take the fall for someone, he wouldn't want there to be any possibility that there would be any indication that I was doing that. Nothing that could possibly come out in an investigation. So he wouldn't go in there and say, "CJ, we'll just tell them I did it. Okay? You get to keep your job, you get to stay out of jail. I'll say it was my idea, that I leaked it to Greg Brock. As far as you're concerned, I just walked in here and confessed to you." No... he'd just confess, as though it were the truth all along, and leave it up to her to figure out what he was doing. And it would have played out exactly like we just saw, anyway. And CJ would never be able to testify to anything other than that.
That would _also_ have fit with the facts, *but it would be less like Toby to do that.* For a while I was in the camp of those who thought for sure that he was being noble, that he saw the circle being drawn tighter and tighter around CJ and felt compassion for his friend, that he had brought into the campaign in the first place, and gave her a way out. But I have since come to realiza that Toby's principles wouldn't have allowed him to do that.
At some point, Lawrence O'Donnell is going to have to answer for this. I'm guessing that he wrote himself into a corner and this was the only way out that he could see.
I'm still pissed at the producers for this story line. I do not for a second believe Toby would be capable of this. As for the idiots who think CJ did it and let Toby take the fall, get your heads out of your asses and go back and watch the series.
The other theory is that Toby’s brother leaked it and Toby took the fall for him.
toby totally had it in him
I was in politics for over 20 years. I TOTALLY believe that Toby was capable of it. His personality alone tells me it. Remember when he totally flipped out on the president for not invoking the 25th amendment when he was shot and Leo was basically running the country for the time Jed was in surgery. Toby was a man of VERY strong convictions and was not afraid to take action when he personally felt something was not right.
I really dislike the storyline in general, but if you don't think toby had this in him, you don't understand toby
@@chrism6315 You and I can argue about that all day long. The person who would know best is Richard Schiff. Go check out what HE had to say about it.
Hint: He thought it was total BS.
I didn’t know that there were “uniformed secret service agents.”
I will never understand the decision to have Toby be the leak. It ruined the show-not destroyed it, but forever dulled The West Wing's shine, which was already fading after Arron Sorkin left.
Richard Schiff wasn't the heart of the show. He was its spirit. When he disappeared to the very edges of Mandy-ville, the show was less for it.
Richard Schiff hated with the passion what the writers & producers did to Toby. This kind of thing goes entirely against what Toby believes and backstabbing not just CJ & the others but the President too.
No, it’s entirely within Toby’s character as the unrealistic ideologue who will go to the ends of the earth for what is “right” in his mind
@@EdawgpilotBut he's right?
@@andrewroberts8139 not saying Toby’s right or wrong, just saying it’s completely within his character to throw out any rule, any loyalty, if it means Toby gets to be right
Some claim that Toby was taking the blame for his brother, which would be in character.
Here's the possibilities: Either Toby was the leak or he was protecting the real leak or Toby knew by confessing the leak investigation would stop and Leo wouldn't be forced to testify which Toby pointed out would have ended the Santos campaign.
Ok cool we got the season 7 clips out of the way can we go back to PEAK season 2-4?
Could we please get some of the many wholesome, brilliant, witty, brave, principled, and loving Toby moments seasons 1-4? There are SO many. Dad Toby would be a plus too :)
"Babies come with hats."
I always wondered how the cast themselves acted or felt AFTER they got a look at that episode's script and realized, "oh chit, a bomb is about to go off" ?
I still don't accept Toby leaked. Such odd thing for his character. Worst is his friendship with C.J. was never the same until the finale.
I disagree that it is an odd thing for his character. Sometimes he considered himself morally superior to everyone else and combined with his brother’s death he could do such a thing.
I didn't buy it either. Toby made such a stink when Bartlett was shot, the whole "there was a coup d'etat in this country!" he was too much of a stickler for the rules to do this. Worst plot line of the later seasons.
@@redlion145 Was he a stickler for the rules or did he just consider himself superior as the only rules follower? If you look at his reaction when Bartlett came clean to him about MS it is perfectly in character for that person to blab especially if he thought it was morally wrong to have military space shuttle.
Toby never would have betrayed the president like that. This was always a stupid, stupid, stupid storyline.
After Losing His Brother To Cancer His Need To Save A Life Was Strong Especially If That Meant Saving His Brother’s Colleagues!
I still believe he was protecting someone. And deep down he kinda agreed so endured.
The show was setting up CJ as the leaker but I never bought it. Toby being the leaker totally made sense to me.
Toby never betrays the president like this. Ever. CJ doesn't betray the president like that, either. And given that the two of them were really the last ones from that team that got Bartlet to the White House, the fact that it was ever considered possible for either of them to leak this information was always absurd. The writers blew this story line right from the start. It should have always been someone at DOD.
@@jasonkoch3182I think you're overlooking what happened to Toby's brother. His brother nearly having an accident in space, Toby knows what it's like for families on ground living through an incident in space. Then Toby had the absolute trauma of having his brother killing himself, we saw how much that affected him in season 6. Then he sees a situation where other families went through the exact thing he went through and here is a covert military shuttle, which may be illegal given international law, we never find out it's capability or purpose, could be used to save them and the President isn't considering it as an option. In his eyes, it's the President betraying him first, not the other way around.
@@TehCheese Exactly. It was his brother's story that made it understandable that Toby was the leaker. Toby knew the stress of having a family member out in space and he was shaken to the core after his brother's suicide. He couldn't let another astronaut die when there was something he could do to prevent it. I was more angry that he let his friends go through hell before he confessed. He even let the reporter he leaked it to go to prison for 18 months.
I knew CJ wasn't the leak because the show was making it too obvious that she was the leak
@@jasonkoch3182 Or the leak could have been Secretary of Defense Hutchison because he was a recurring character for many seasons,So that way the leak could have been someone the viewers knew but could live without.As for Toby, since Richard Schiff only agreed to be in half of season 7's episodes simce he wanted off The West Wing the show could have written Toby off by him by after him losing his brother deciding to focus on his family and be a full-time father to his kids and get out of politics,Plus then Will still could have been hired to replace Toby.
Richard Schiff didn’t like this storyline either. He said in an interview Toby would have never, not in a million years, betrayed President Bartlett like that.
I heard oliver bankrolled a restaurant in chicago in retirement.
After his stint as head of psychiatry at a Chicago hospital.
Before he was White House counsel, he studied alligators.
And fought with the French.
Even with an alleged cantankerous personality, I still would marry a Toby.
I just love his sass so much, I even like his arrogance. But it's not just these things, he has kindness & love in his heart which he isn't able to express with words, despite of being a professional speechwriter.
He's a coconut, hard exterior & soft interior.
I recently started watching "The Good Doctor" and the introductory scene of Dr. Aaron Glassman was so eerily similar to Toby's introduction on "The West Wing", especially the tone of it, blew my mind.
Thanks you so much for explaining coconut in a positive way. Here in nz it is a derogatory racist term aimed at Pacific Islanders.
Any other show would have crowded these tense moments with dialog and wasted a good moment.
I know Toby being the leak is controversial but it is something I can possibly see him doing. I remember that amazing scene where he confesses to CJ that his brother had killed himself and you can see how heart broken he is over losing him that way. Grief can do terrible things to people, make them say and do things they wouldn't normally do.
That said Toby placed a high value on loyalty so for him to betray the President and everyone else is hard to accept. My personal view is that it wasn't Toby but his sister-in-law. Just like Toby's brother David told him about the military shuttle he also told his wife. She is also grife stricken and see's news of the trapped astronauts and knows there is a way to save them. Unlike Toby she has no direct loyalty to the administration so she leaks it. Toby probably realized exactly who it was so stays quite since its family. The investigation focuses on the West Wing but it is based on the false assumption that no one else knew about the military shuttle. Once it becomes clear that the investigators are going to go after CJ and knowing how this will hurt not only the Bartlet administration but the Santos campaign Toby decides to fall on his sword. He can't say who really did it since it would result in his brothers widow being arrested and his brothers children effectively becoming orphans. Toby knows that he has a 50/50 chance of getting off because of his political connections but the odd of being able to get his sister-in-law off would be very low. Toby loved his brother and would never have risked any harm coming to David's widow or children. For his family I think he would have sacrificed himself and confessed to the leak but that's just my opinion.
I've read numerous discussions about whether Toby was actually the leak or whether he was take one for CJ (who was much more likely to be the leak - at least the evidence was pointing that way). CJs reaction doesn't really suggest that he was covering for her. Although when she visits his house later in the final season there are small hints. Seems to the writers weren't being clear enough about what happened here?
I've always said Hoynes was the leak.
Yeah this plotline is why season 7 been collecting dust on the shelf for 15 years
I agree
This plotline & the campaign trail
Didn't interest me at all.
Rewatched other seasons multiple times but season 7 only once, that too for the sake of completing the show.
Toby already hired a lawyer, who would have told him to keep his mouth shut and not say anything to anyone (remain silent). The White House Council is not Toby‘s friend. The White House Counsel is there to protect the White House, not the people who work in it.
Protecting the White House would have been the priority of everyone, including Toby.
It’s counsel, not council. The two words are pronounced the same but have different meanings.
I still dont believe Toby was the leak.
This always happens in final seasons of long running shows, the writers are rushing thru loose plotlines and trying to get a final conclusion, also I do remember the news at the time that this show had a very large cast, decreasing viewership and they were cutting the budget to a minimum, so instead of entirely writing off one or two actors, some characters would need to disapear several episodes in that last season... the passing of John Spencer didn't help either...
Post-Sorkin the writers destroyed Toby, they had no idea what do with the character.
Everyone had a part to play in the post-Sorkin era, Toby didn't.
So they dawdled with Toby, he'll give some funny press conference, waste time with Annabeth, nothing substantial.
They had no understanding of his personality, to them he was a piece of furniture that they tried to adjust in various settings.
All the people in the Bartlett WH were loyal to country or party, but they were more loyal to Bartlett. Their agenda was always "Bartlett on the top" others be damned. But in a situation if there was someone who had something left for the country, Bartlett be damned, it was Toby. He was the moral compass of the administration.
Saying that, Toby still had loyalty & respect towards Bartlett, and as a loyal employee and advisor the writers destroyed his credibility with this nonsense "shuttle leak" story.
They were like not everyone can come out from this unscathed, someone has to have something bad going on to bring in the ratings so let's make that useless furniture, what's his name again... Oh! Toby yaaa... lets make Toby fall on the sword, it'll be fun.
Toby deserved better than this story line!
I'm still new to this show, and haven't watched up to this episode, but I'm confused. Many of the clips I've seen on this channel make me think thst the original idea had been that it was CJ and that someone decided writing out her character was a mistake very late in the process. Thus making a real mess of a bad storyline and writing out one of my favorite characters.
Everyone saying this plot line makes no sense doesn’t understand Toby’s character: he’s the diehard ideologue to Josh’s pragmatic realism. Toby would break every law and unwritten rule in the book in pursuit of what his hyperliberal beliefs said was “right” and to hell with everyone else
Is there a paragraph person around? I understand the astronaut/ shuttle problem but why would cj be suspect? And why did Toby finally confess? Did he resign and not be prosecuted? Thanks in Advance!
Toby confessed because they were coming for CJ. Evidence was pointing toward her. He confessed simply to prevent her from being arrested. As for why CJ was suspected. Evidence was pointing toward someone in the West Wing and CJ just found out about the military shuttle and had a good working relationship with the reporter who the story was leaked to. She was the most likely suspect, and the evidence was supporting it. If Toby wouldn't have fessed up, it probably would have ruined her career, even if nothing came of it.
Toby was fired and was going to be prosecuted, but President Bartlett's last act before leaving office was a pardon.
@@DispaminiteThank You beyond belief!
Do you think CJ turned on Toby too quickly? From Bartlet loyalty or upset of being a suspect? And are WH counsel that well trained in a security matter?
I'm so greedy with asking questions, right? What ultimately happened with the ISS trouble?
@@bgold2007 Well i'm sure CJ wasn't happy with Toby for letting people think she was the leak and maybe CJ knows that if Tobu had confessed sooner maybe she could have done something to help him.
CJ would've seen leaking as betraying Leo and the office he entrusted her with and recommended her for, which she never would've done. Toby also wasn't the leak. The better (fan) theory is that it was Andy, Toby's wife, who had clearance, or Toby might've told her. Toby fell on his sword for *two* women, because in the absence of someone confessing, they were clearly setting CJ up as the sacrificial lamb. What you're seeing here is CJ torn between being glad that she won't have to fend off the jackals who are coming for her but also coming to terms with the betrayal and knowledge that Toby just ended his career.
If i remember correctly Toby confessed right after he found Leo was going to be forced to testify about the leak.So the way i see it Toby confessed to save Leo and not CJ.
@3:27 Something tells me this isn't how the White House is run anymore. Can't rightly explain why, just a funny feeling I suppose.... *sigh*
Not my favourite storyline tbh
They didn't know what to do with Toby so they flung him around being the press secretary for 2 seconds, then this leak crap. Then he vanishes for a huge chunk of the last 2 seasons except to make Josh's life tougher.
It’s nobody’s lmao
Exactly. Did not need to go there.
@@Laneous14He went off to go do Jurassic Park and Entourage.
I think he was covering for CJ. She revealed the secret to him in an earlier episode, asking him if his brother had ever hinted about a secret shuttle
It wasn’t that Toby knew that was the problem; it’s that he told a reporter about it. CJ talking to Tony about is was fine, Toby talking to a journalist was leaking classified military intelligence
As much as I love the show I hated this non sensical story arc. There was a heart rending plot where Toby could have leaked the story logically and this was not it. I think they couldn't find enough to write about besides Smits running for president and didn't work on this enough.
I could see Toby doing this. But I can’t forgive him being a deadbeat dad. That never made sense to me after their birth.
Just because we didn't see it didn't mean Toby didn't spend time with his kids.Plus since Toby's kids were twins if i remember maybe the show could find twin babies to play Toby's children
@@aph1976 they were fraternal twins, a boy and a girl. no need for identical twins.
proof why shows should stop at 5. last 2 seasons are dog shit
This plot turn ruined the entire run of the program for me. To be the source of a leak would be so very out of character for Toby. This sort of bad writing would not have happened if the producers would have just made Aaron Sorkin an offer deserving of his vast contribution to the show. Dumb, dumb, dumb... My advice to fan of TWW is to stop watching after Sorkin's departure.
In the updated series they are going to get General Milley to play a Chinese spy and Eric Swalwell to play his lover.
The worst storyline in all seven seasons. It also had zero suspense - because the flash forward at the start of that season showed Toby at the opening of the Bartlett Presidential library - clearly still on good terms.
Toby was a snake, he was always a snake, someone who thought that he knew best and everyone else be damned. It was good to see him get his in the end.
I might be the only one who's fine with them doing this to Toby. He was arrogant and pompous, he was exactly what people mean when they say "liberal elite". He absolutely would've done the leak because he knows better than everyone else
I agree with you. It’s exactly what an unrealistic extreme idealist like
Toby would do
Agreed. I came to love Toby over the run of the show, but he was the most arrogant character. At the time, and still now, I think he did it because of his love for his brother, which I could understand.
Exactly. Toby never stood for what HE felt was some kind of betrayal or wrong regarding his personal beliefs.
The whole secret shuttle never made sense. There is no way a launch can take place anywhere on the globe without being observed by someone or something. The first time it was used, it would never be a secret again.
That was. The exact plot of the show. That was the dilemma. Did you even watch it?!?! You are literally describing the plot as if it’s some grand epiphany you are having
Toby was Bartlett conscience, his Chewbacca, all of this was so nonsensical, so out of character, so rage inducingly stupid.
One of the worst story lines of the entire series.
And yet I don’t believe he did. He covered for CJ who accepted his truth.
Did you ever actually watch the show? Dumbest comment I'll see on the internet today and that includes anything coming out of MAGAtville.
Babbage was a hack, and a pretty bad one at that.