History of WWI Primer 068: Spanish Ona in British and Italian Service Documentary
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ม.ค. 2018
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Othais and Mae delve into the story of this WWI classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its WWI Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
Additional reading:
Smith & Wesson Sixguns of the Old West
David R. Chicoine
British Secondary Small Arms 1914-1919
Vol.2 Aircraft Weapons, Machine-guns & Pistols
A.O.Edwards
Original music provided by Melissa Hyman of The Moon and You
www.themoonandyou.com/
Safe range space thanks to Triana Protection
In collaboration with The Great War
/ thegreatwar
Additional photos thanks to Rock Island Auction
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
/ drakegmbh
Animation Music from Vector Smash
vectorsmash.com
Visit us at candrsenal.com
'Ona' means 'Good' in Euskera. That's a whole new level of Basque sarcasm.
LOL. That's a great bit of context! Thank you.
It also means "she" in Czech.
Brings a whole new meaning to ona hole.
woget264 oh no. Why. WHY. WHHHHHYYY
I bet the Italians who bought it thought "Well, at least it ain't a effing Glisenti."
"At least is not a Reichsrevolver, nor a Colt New Model Army".
If you don't already know, "Ona" means good in basque language, which is what most common people spoke in the basque country in those days. Also, being a little picky here, Eibar is not a region but a town, in the Gipuzkoa province.
Agree, but in "arms matters" Eibar is "considered a region....a short of... (but you are rigth). Ona is good in Euskera (language of basque country as Spanish too)....but not so used in general in Basque country so is quite bit exotic....
Not sure where you get that info from. I live there (and my family has, for centuries) and I can tell you that lots of people speak euskera, in fact most schools teach in that language. But a hundred years ago it was not only common but the main language spoken there, specially in Gipuzkoa. Spanish was only used by the higher classes. Someone who spoke good spanish was considered a person with very good education. Regarding the Eibar thing, arms manufacturers were all located in the town of Eibar and Gernika, so not really a region.
Great vid ! Learned plenty. I own the Ona, Italian 10.4mm. My copy , however in contrast to the copy you used in the vid, is very tight with mint bore & chamber conditions are as new as well. Trigger return spring is broken clean in half & hammer mainspring left side sturrip spur is snapped off. Interestingly enough, this old Gat fired reliably in both single & double action whilst manually returning the trigger to full forward battery position each time.
Ammunition used; Remington .44 Smith&Wesson Special factory new brass casings trimmed to 0.95-inch then loaded with 0.429 dia. 200 grain round nose flat base hard cast lead bullet on top of 3.2 grains -Bullseye propellant capped with Winchester Large pistol primer. Chrony muzzle velocity reading from 1 foot setting averaged 742 fps.
We fired this old Gat onto a 25 yard repair center bullseye target from 10 yard distance using a modern two handed combat thumbs down & forward master grip. Sights are difficult to master as May stated in the vid but after firing four 5 shot groups, our best grouping was an astonishing 1.35 inch !!! The other three groupings ranged from 1.80-3.15 inches....so one might conclude that our Bullseye shooting skills from 10 yards using a 100 year old-ish 2nd. rate revolver are at the least, Less than consistent ? Still,... Lots more entertaining than watching Oprah TV.
THANKS A BUNCH for the great video & I hope my long winded story reaches someone with interest & helps to shine a little light & or add some perspective to these rather obscure old revolvers.
Carry On & Gatman out...
In the US we often use the phrase "the (town name) region" to refer informally to a city or large town and the surrounding communities together. It doesn't necessarily imply that it's a region in the official administrative sense; it's just being used as a synonym for "area".
Few things are as quintessentially Spanish as unlicensed reproductions of existing handguns.
They need to get back on that. I'm tired of nagging about cheap Chinese knockoffs , I want to mag about cheap Spanish knockoffs. I'm sure Spain could use the cash so get on that Spanish DH gate
Arsonmarathon Powerfuneral Smill and Welson, anyone?
>Existing handguns
Did you mean Mauser's C96?
That then get Spanish protection
@keith moore Back in that time there was no such a thing as "international patent law". You needed to oregister (And pay) country by country.
So... the ideal WWI revolver might be a German-made Double-Action Smith & Wesson with the grip and trigger spur from the No. 3 Russian, firing .45 ACP from half-moon clips? Oh and with the longer barrel for the better sight radius as well. That would be an utter beast of a gun. I want one.
A Gyrojet. They had the tech back then. All they needed was a day without wind. ;-)
sailingmaster that sounds an awful lot like the a Webley MK VI with a “shaved” cylinder.
I would suggest a barrel with at minimum a 4 inch barrel, at maximum (as in don’t) 8 inches
Model 10 k frame chambered in .45 acp with moon clips, with a trigger spur, and a 4-6 inch barrel
I tend to prefer automatics even without the justification that automatics are arguably better sidearms overall, but your idea of a S&W sounds so good, I might genuinely consider it in my top 10 even though the other 9 would be automatic pistols.
"My enemies aren't birds, they're people." That's what the birds want you to think.
I have rewatched that animation 3 times now and I still have no idea how that lug releases to let the ejector drop
"I got a lot of guns to deal with."
Understatement of the century!
Lighting is PERFECT in this video. I can tell over the past few episodes you guys have been adjusting it. Keep it where it is at right now,. Nothing is blown out and he guns look well lit. Thanks for another outstanding episode!
REVOLVER OTHAISELOT (REVOLVER OTHAISELOT)
6 shots... More than enough to kill anything that moves... Now let's get it into the lightbox.
Picked up one of the 10.4 [actually says 10.35] versions at a gun show. The guy said it was "a fake S&W made in Mexico." I collect weapons of the Italian Front in WW1, besides my Garands & 1911s. They are shown in several books I have on Italian weapons & equipment of WW1. And yes the distributor, probably selling them as "officer private purchase" was Tettoni [one of my favorite Italian words]. In any case there is a guy here on TH-cam showing how to make 10.4 Bodeo cartridges, very simply, using 45 auto-rim & 44-40 components, & black powder. My M1916 10.4 shoots great, but give me my 1911 any day.
The only show where the counterfeits and poor copies are the most interesting items in the world.
Do you watch Forgotten Weapons? Gun Jesus has an entire playlist dedicated to 'em!
th-cam.com/play/PL9e3UCcU00TQmv44PITdAgihDTDehgMki.html
This is the episode ive waited for since the series started! My grandfather brought one of these back after his tour in france.
Another excellent video. Your team does a great job packing a great deal of information into a small package.
This is one of, if not my favorite channel on TH-cam. I watch these episodes for days on end, Im always itching for information and knowledge. Othias does such a wonderful job narrating and presenting information, perfect pace, quick enough to hold interest and get the info delivered asap, but slow enough to absorb it all. Mae also does a fantastic job, critiquing arms very thoroughly. Id like to see her critique once the series is done, say top 5 rifles and top 5 handguns and why by comparison. Keep up the great work guys! I refer EVERYONE I talk to to this channel. Cant wail until WWII.
I’m waiting for the day we get to see WW2’s “war were declared”
Great information and effort to try and sort out all the confusing models and nomenclature, I love your channel and wait with baited breath for each new posting. I've learned a ton.
I thoroughly enjoy every C&Rsenal video. You guys are awesome.
I saw one a few days ago at a gunstore, knew nothing about it, then this video comes out! perfect!
Awesome, bedtime stories... Thanks guys!!!
Another cool video. Thanks.Can't wait to see what comes next :-)
Hello from the future. It seems like the names Tettoni and Ona have somewhat stuck around, so at least there's something (also big thanks to Isonzo for adding the Ona, that's how I found out this thing existed. Pretty neat).
I have one of those. The cylinder rolls backwards after a few shots due to the unfired ammo weighing the cylinder down. Microscopic sights are hard to see. Small feeling grips feels sketchy to hold onto. Recoils like a 44 special, which is ok. Surprisingly accurate in my example with 455 Colt reloads, whenever my eyes were able to focus on the tiny sights (fist sized group @15 yards ). Sadly it has timing and lockup issues due to its age and previous abuse. I like these weird Spanish & Belgian knock offs.
It's hard to believe this channel had only around 90k subs at this point. It's now less than 2 years later (it's Oct 22, '19 as of this writing) and youtube tells me they currently have around 211k - well over double. So nice to see the channel grow - that means plenty more videos for me to learn from. WTG, guys! :-)
Best two frame animation EVER! Happy Smith > Sad Smith. Great job, Othais!
at 5:27 when you brought that little .32 out - it gave me flashbacks to my childhood playing Fallout 3. I instantly realized that the crappy .32 starting pistol was modeled by the developers after that little S&W pocket gun. Goodness - didn't expect such a strange blast of nostalgia from C&Rsenal!
Shooting a cutdown 1917 with those glasses and that jacket and the beard, Othais, you look like you're from the 70s.
Sedan57Chevy i
And it's comforting, too. I'm from the '70s . . . one of us . . . one of us . . .
Just needs start disco dancing and write a manifesto.
Every time you guys do an episode I get excited about a new old gun...I am too broke for this(continues watching)
I found one of the #2's from Tricaola at an auction 2 years ago, practically new and shoots very well.
I've found that aggressively rounded grips are great for large single actions. For the remington 1858 you let the recoil flip the gun in your hand and then, with proper thumb placement, you flip it back down while cocking it. With practice it settles perfectly in your natural grip and all ready to fire again. This is a slow firing technique though. It seems that there are a few artifacts that shine through from the cap-and-ball Era of handguns that don't need to be there anymore .
festerallday I've read that this is exactly how the Webley .455's were intended to be used.
Very intersting vidéo on a very intersting revolver, thanks
Just bought one today!
My vote for Mark to do an inspection of that particularly worn .455. Tired iron and his humour would be a good mix. Or something that was clearly DQed. Great idea.
I have a Trocaola (spelling?) made No2 MkI? That has been engraved for a Major in the Scottish rifles. It's interesting that an officer would be carrying it. In 1915 he was listed as a temporary major, so he likely was not an affluent enough officer to have received a webley. It's still in time and locks up tight but the cosmetics are not so nice.
Did anyone else want to see Mae playing with that little .32?
lol, a pal of mine had that little .32 as a teen street urchin in 70s era nyc. handy puppy indeed, though it had about 30 bodies on it, much to his chagrin when he got busted with it, lol. most predated his birth, but enough were theoretically realistic it ended up spoiling his high school attendance record, if you get my drift
So he had "... a 32 gun in his pocket for fun...".
Did he also have "... a razor in his shoe..."?
perhaps a 007, but assuredly pro keds, lol
So how is "Bad, Bad Leroy Brown"?
th-cam.com/video/QvwDohEEQ1E/w-d-xo.htmlm15s
the song is great, my pal sean is dead about 30 years now, so certainly feeling no pain, lol. teen tales like that rarely have auspicious finales, few geniuses would carry a gun that had been on the street longer than their grandmother had lived
good episode, thanks O-san and crew for all your hardwork . do you plan to do a vid in the series on the 1871 Mauser single shot, since it did see use in the war in the German colony's in the hands of Askari.
I would love to see a modern top break revolver made. With modern materials and production methods this must be possible.
Uberti makes one: www.uberti-usa.com/top-break-revolver
u should have more subs, keep it up
Yay! Snow day. No pesky work to interfere with watching the bearded one and the beautiful miss May.
The futurama reference was awesome dude. Lol
Though I have little or nothing to base it on, I have long felt that the "spur" on those S&W revolvers was intended to be used as a "rest" or "grip" for the off side trigger finger when the revolvers were fitted with shoulder stocks or for "two handed target style shooting" when no shoulder stock was fitted. I know....Mind my own business and stop thinking as nothing good can come out of it. Excellent educational video as usual!
The model I have only has the markings on the top of the barrel “Orbea Hermanos” some serial numbers on closer inspection but all not in plain sight. Also the wood grips that are on mine have the brass center so I do not think they were replaced but I haven’t seen an exact copy to the one I own. It was given to me by an elderly neighbor who passed away shortly after. All he told me about it was he thinks it was 44 Russian.
Such indecent hands!
i already clicked the bell but i havent get notified for your video in about a month now, i didnt see this one in my phone notification.
I believe unsubbing and resubbing fixes it. Although it seems ro be a common youtube error
Bestest "War Were Delared!"
I never expected you to do an episode on the Spanish S&W clones...
I'm curious what would happen if a British officer had gotten ahold of a New Model 3 from S&W in .455. Would that have functioned much better than the Ona/OH models?
You guys rule! The next big bump is coming and I think it's name is "1911" or maybe "machine gun" whenever they're ready to drop. Looking forward to what is to come! Cheers
Still can’t wait for RSC, 1911, nagant, gasser 1870, and Mosin
Keep up the good work
Austin Davîd no half decent man gives a shit about any of those firearms
I think Mae must tested the real S&W first model double action in this episode to compare it with the two Sapniard copies.
I just bought a No2 Mk1 (with the full wood grips) and it is as tight as a drum. Lots of color case hardening on it. Only problem is that the rear of the cylinder has been shaved like many Webleys were for .45 ACP.
"My enemies are not birds, they're people!" Lol
I for one, know what the Ona is... and the OP No1 MkI and No 2 Mk 1... Thanks Othais!
I wish in the future they make a episode about Spanish cloned rifle or just clone rifle
The huge change and evolution starts with the Colt 1911 A2 in market cal.45
After having watched "They Shall Not Grow Old" back on the 27th, I'm pretty sure I saw a British soldier with one of these in there. There were a few other interesting weapons that managed to sneak their way into some of the footage, like a very early pattern SMLE, possibly a Mark I, mixed in with a boatload of Mark III's and Mark III*'s. Before the restoration, you likely wouldn't have been able to see the difference, but once restored, the taller, skinnier front sight ears were plain to see. Makes me wonder what else is there to be found in that old footage, at least Peter Jackson had all of the footage they were sent by the Imperial War Museum restored for no charge, even the stuff they didn't use.
Given how short the British were on rifles a Lee Metford on the front lines wouldn’t be a surprise…
IN LINE TE NAME Is the revolver "tettoni " in 10.40 bodeo for the italian model
Last time I was this early, the British were still using the Ona :)
I saw one of these at a local store yesterday for $650. Almost bought it... true story
Who dislikes this!?!???? Great vid guys
People from Eibar being accused of forgery, I guess...
My dad has a rusty old IVer Johnson version of the small one
Any idea where I can find some parts for one of these?
30:45 Woah, abrupt cut there.
Would the 32 s&w be the base design for the Iver Johnson consumer revolvers? It looks highly similar to them...
Would have been interesting to see comparison to original S&W double action. Rattling and lesser quality steel was Spanish problem, but was trigger problems and poorer grip also in the original?
You mentioned coverage of Spanish copies of swing-out revolvers but I cannot find the episode in your listed videos. Would you guide me to this episode please?
What do you know of a Spanish version with grip marked '1914'? It is listed English translation of Zhuk's Russian book on world pistols.
Also a Mark video on revolver condition assessment would be excellant!
Don't forget about the model 1 1/2 single action...
Are you ever going to release that enfield video, I’d really like to know more
It was just a toss together for the patrons really
In 1884 this revolver (ONA nº 7) was offered for sale at a 40 pesetas price. That´s 7-8 dollars. I wonder what was the price of a S&W. Just to know how wide was the price gapp
Are there any top break revolvers which only eject spent cases and leave the live rounds in the cylinder?
glavoc There is the unconventional Enfield Mk. II revolver.
Hey Othias, were you saying you were looking for one of these guns to buy? I work at a small gun shop in California and we actually have two of them. Hopefully I will be able to properly identify them now thanks to this video.
I sadly don't get to buy myself things. The budget is pretty tight.
Ah I understand, Just misunderstood what you meant. Great episode as allways Othias!
Othais I'm calling you out on this, considering you're the same guy that said I should Tacticool out the .38S&W US Revolver Co. Revolver I have in the same style!
Empire Arms website has listed what they call a British model 1915 in .455 Webley made by Orbea Hermanos for $575
does the little guy shoot .32 S&W? any idea if that is safe to shoot in it?
Why 5 shot?
Spain the original China.
PickelJars ForHillary Euskadi *
I mean, China was making plenty of un-licensed hand guns around this time as well.
Astra has some neat handguns tho
@@Back4Fungame So does Star.
How do the Spanish ones compare to the original Smith and Wesson doubles though? I know there is the ww1 focus but I'm curious for comparison sake.
I want one in .45 super with moon clips.
The hi point of the early 1900s.
* *Shoots Reagan* *
Don't miss the mark this time.
'Indecently sized hands' - You heard it here first!
What's the carbine Mauser on the bottom right rack in this? I've seen it in a bunch of videos and I can't tell what it is. Is it some sort of Swedish carbine or an Argentine Engineer one? Something like that?
Vetterli M70/87/15 episode when?
I keep seeing them at gun shows for ~$150. However, not sure if I want a gun that I can't shoot.
An aside with the No. 2 Double Action (the tiny five shot .38 S&W), Iver Johnson copied it, but patented what they called the "Hammer the hammer" safety. What Iver Johnson did was patent the transfer bar safety that is mainstream in a lot of modern double action revolvers today, and best seen in the Sturm Ruger Blackhawk, Redhawk, GP100, and SP101 revolvers.
Iver Johnson also patented another safety for their shrouded hammer pocket revolver, that feature wouldn't return to the forefront of firearms tech until an Austrian curtain rod and knife manufacturer by the name of Gaston put the design into his new handgun built to compete in Austrian military trials.
The trigger dingas!
the iver johnson action is COMPLETELY divergent from the S&W lockwork. the similarity starts and stops at the hinge and latch, and both are "not quite matches". i-j has the transfer bar pivoted on the trigger, with a "wart" interacting with a semi-circular groove in the hammer for DA cocking. the smithy has the oh so familiar "dove head and hammer mounted double action fly" DA cocking of the modern revolvers. the single action cycle on the i-j relies on a separate sear lever engaging the hammer full cock notch, which is nudged out of engagement by the back of the trigger. single action on the smithy is as modern does it, the dove head itself engages the cock notch. the i-j bolt is a fixed lump on the trigger, the smithy a pivoted, spring loaded lever. th i-j firing pin is frame mounted ala the ruger modern DAs, the smithy pin is hammer mounted. i honestly see NO copying, except perhaps silhouette similarities unavoidable in the type
New buildings are easy, gun makers that takes time.
Idk if its SW, IJ or USco; I have one of thoughs. 32s
The s/w 32...38 chrome ..what model is that..im looking with # of. 304***...any info would be gr8..love is vids..it has writing on top of barrel but mostly unlegable
What was that about the new South Wales belly gun? That just looks bizzare...
Does anyone know where i can buy parts for these?
Ah Spanish Bootleg side arms.
Khanclansith im still waiting for the inevitable 32 acp revolver ripoff
Ulysses S. Grant I'm waiting for the Spanish Bootleg Mae.
I would also warn against searching for 'ona' that tends to mean something else these days...
Sfw?
keith moore No, ona is pretty bad too.
It looks like a S&W model 3 revolver.
In any video with more than one person and one gun, the gun becomes the "Totem of speaking" and nobody can talk without the totem in hand. 😯✋🔫
Also known as the Tettoni, the Italian importer of that clone ...
That’s a really rare Spanish revolver.
What the? This isn't my beloved "postman's revolver"! I thought it came after the the beautiful Russian No. 3.
revolver Orbea 1884 11mm(44)
A Double Action No. 3 Russian?! Oh my god, it would have been the most perfect gun ever. What might have been
Published one minute ago. For once I have perfect timing.
Oh gosh yes, get some revolvers in Mark's mitts!