When I was young, I dreamed of owning a Mercedes Benz ... Now, I that I am grown & financially independent & sound, I stopped thinking of MB. I only look at Chinese EV.😊
I’m 75 years old and I have had a Mercedes almost all my life. But the reliability issues are so massive that I drive a Honda now. In the states German cars as a whole have a miserable reputation.
@@thetruth7633I don’t agree, I had 13 reg E class. The repaire cost was around £1k each year. Too much sensor and electronic issue. I don’t even want to mention the air suspension and stupid suspension pump!
I agree. My wife owned a BMW, and the maintenance costs were outrageous. Now she’s been driving a Subaru for 6 years, and it’s never required a repair.
Lost innovation motive. Lost Russian energy. Lost Chinese market. Lost to Tesla. Lost to BYD. Weakness and ignorance are not barriers to survival, but arrogance is.
Exactly that. I was offered a few German alternatives from a broker to replace my Etron GT in the UK. ‘No Thanks’ was the answer, next car will be a Chinese EV, I want my car to have innovation, design and low price.
The billions they are forced to waste on EVs has to be made up by the cars people are buying- in lower quality and higher costs. Same with most manufacturers right now.
Don't know, in my opinion AUDI's and VW stay on the road much longer and stay in good condition, so you might see more older ones by the side of the road. BMW on the other hand, you never see old BMWs any more, that says something. I bought a 10 year old Audi A3, after my Chevy Volt PHEV unexpectedly died and I haven't saved enough for a Model3, Polestar2 or ID3 yet. Guy at the garage said it had a much better engine and build quality than newer AUDIs and I think he was right.
Been a MB customer (S-Class and up) since the Y2K, build quality has gone down dramatically around 2015-ish. And…their answer to this competitive disadvantage is to cut costs further. I see.
The electification of anything leads to brutal cost reductions because one the materials science is cracked, you have solid state manufacturing, parts swapping, optimization and commoditization. Manufacturing mechanicals is ultimately bespoke and there is only so much automation that bolting blocks of metal can achieve. The computer industry showed this - from large metal cases with multiple boards to a single chip on a singe small board covered in plastic. Wheels & motors aside, this is where cars are going.
I disagree. Whilst you are perfectly correct with electronics - the more on a single piece of silicon the better really, a vehicle is an inherently mechanical device. EVs still have shock absorbers, brakes, heat pumps, transducers, all of which transform kinetic energy into heat or signals. Material breakdown happens, and with that, product failure. The fundamental issue with EVs is the battery is not a passive component, it is an electro-chemical reactor. Electric currents alter the chemical states of its constituents. If the battery is subjected to abuse via quick charging it is a bit like an ICE revved to the red line every gear change. The EV may use electricity as its prime mover, but it’s still subjected to environmental and human abuses, just like an ICE car. Also, ICE cars have been subjected to complex safety and emissions controls, which make the car more complex than would be ideal for perfect reliability. EVs at least do not have emissions controls. However, I feel the battery EV is not the ultimate personal transport vehicle. I believe the future should offer ICE with novel engine designs, hybrid power trains and, for sporting purposes, pure old fashioned ICE, as that provides the ultimate in power-to-weight ratios, at least for more than short bursts.
The era of German petrol cars are quickly coming to an end. Just like how Kodak was finished with the film business in the 2000s. All high technology will eventually become obsolete, irrelevant and unwanted over time. Petrol cars are no exception. The simple reason for this is the world _entire_ world is rapidly shifting to EVs, whether Germany likes it or not. Nothing more.
Greetings from Germany. I does not look good here. Perhaps it is time to start looking for the exit. But, where to go? Much of Europe is in a deep mess.
I think using the strenght of the € to settle in a country with lower cost of living is the best choice for most people, saving up a bit of money before leaving. It's a long process and takes time but there are so many options in the world, unless you want to stay in Europe, which is a continent in decline.
@@RikuLeppanen Lots of Germans moving here to southern Germany-especially where I live here in Karlshamns. Our Waldorf School has recently enrolled lots of new German kids whose German parents have chosen to move here based on their ability to continue working their German jobs remotely. My wife who also works at the Waldorf School says there are many new German kids enrolling at the other Waldorf Schools here in southern Sweden, such as in Lund and Höör.
Why stay in Europe? I go to many Asian countries and i could see myself living there. Many westerners are moving to places like Thailand, Singapore, UAE, Oman and you have China and SAR's Macau and Hong Kong. Some smaller places like Malaysia and Vietnam have become favorites. Even more develop places like S Korea and Japan have far lower cost of living than Europe. Do yourself a favor and i promise you won't regret it. Get your passport and spend time travelling in Asian countries. Get into digital nomading as many countries are now offering digital nomad visas. I think you can take advantage of the relatively strong Euro while it still lasts. Don't wait because in 5-10 years Europe as a project could collapse.
Most people in the "developed world" including Canada are going to need one... EV's from China eliminate Ontario/Quebec manufacturing jobs and the need for Alberta crude everything including oil... Not to mention far-right ideologies oozing out of Calgary...
Let's be honest. Their quality currently is junk compared to their W124 glory days. Cutting costs will mean lower quality. Given their customer demographics, they stand to lose more sales.
The era of German petrol cars are quickly coming to an end. Just like how Kodak was finished with the film business in the 2000s. All high technology will eventually become obsolete, irrelevant and unwanted over time. Petrol cars are no exception. The simple reason for this is the world _entire_ world is rapidly shifting to EVs, whether Germany likes it or not. Nothing more.
@user-kc1tf7zm3b yes, I totally agree. Once upon a time, they made some great cars. Nowadays they can't keep up with the manufacturing process technology, the software for their EVs are outdated, they don't control their own supply chain. It's sad to look at, but if the company cannot keep pace with current trends and competitors, they will end up like rover and jaguar. Has beens😊
Having worked for a major OEM for 20 years I could see almost a decade ago most will fail, as they simply cannot change their mindset as fast as a startup build on the concept of SW defined vehicle. Its not the Electric motor itself that will see them off but the move towards software defined vehicle, and the speed of which changes now need to be implemented. I remember being in meetings upon meetings for Model year updates, Change review boards, off tooling, gate reviews, PAPP etc etc, now all that is a button press. The expression that these OEMS hate and cannot accept is "cars are becoming mobile phones", they hate that expression as they know deep down if this is so, they will not be able to complete. OEMs have build their business on the ability of integrated design of thousands of mechanical components and suppliers with vast logistical supply change. Now the main KCDS will be a software change not a component change. I would like to think some new German start ups could complete, but the Big OLD OEMS with a Union system that simply is not build for fast decision making will collapse. I have a lot of friends in Germany so I am not gloating over this. But they just cannot complete, and never will. The unions just like with Opel will seal the fate of VW, but the fate of VW will be far worse than Opel, but Opel will now sink with Stellantis, but it could have stayed with GM if the Opel Unions played ball.
@@peterrhodes5663 Ah if you would know anything about engineers many of them like me are dyslexic. If your only argument is to correcto me grammaroo YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT! Lets here a technical response from you why I am wrong? Are you capabel :)
Traditional car manufacturers are some of the last decent employers from the old times. You could work till 55, get a nice pension, and retire fairly young. They are all now being destroyed by design.
The last great Mercedes was the w124, and they killed that almost 30 years ago. Just like Boeing at the same time they stopped building the best product they possibly could, and instead chased profit, and look where both companies are today.
There's always debate on W123 versus W124 however and having owned several of the former and one of the latter I looked at both last week. I went within other W124 mainly on corrosion evidence, but I have to say W123 door closing is up there with W116 and W100. I fear another 450SEL W116 is looming, but a sizeable fleet of proper Mercedes can be had for less than one of their modern plastic rubbish.
A big problem with both Mercedes and BMW is that they are not build like they used to. New Mercedes depreciate 50% of it's value in a year. Repair costs of 5+ year old vehicles is crazy expensive, and thing like the fancy air suspension can be upwards of $20k to fix. Nobody wants that.
It is really not surprising: vehicle costs have gone through the roof and the cars have become overcomplicated with a lot of unneccessary gadgets, also sold at inflated prices. With this overcomplication, comes unreliability and quality issues. With oil and fuel prices still being very high, the heavy behemoths add an extra cost factor. Simply put, these vehicles have become too costly.
They put lots of gadgets into cars because they say that consumers demand them, which I think is balderdash. Most people want uncomplicated basic transport which is reliable and econo mical . Those who buy cars with all the bells and whistles tend to do so to show off to friends and colleagues and probably never use all the functions of the infotainment systems anyway. All carmakers do this for fear of losing sales to a competitor.
About time Car Manufacturers went back to basics 4 Spark Plugs, Speedo, Tachometer, Seats, Ignition Key, 4 Wheels with Disc Brakes & no fcking computers
Unfortunately, it's not possible to not have computers due to emission standards. However, it might be possible to use single board computers that are on the open market.
Cars were "sold" on lease/hire, but then there's no private buyer market for them after that and now they are stuck with them at inflated prices. If they mark them down to where they'll sell, then they have to book a loss, and they don't want that.
The problem with the European Union approach is that they dictate terms with a weak hand. They incompetently create a weak production environment by cutting off their cheapest source of energy from Russia, while demanding that both domestic and foreign brands to produce domestically or face penalties. Furthernore, where EVs are concerned, they block out foreign manufacturers without investing in their own innovation. A Dog will not do tricks without treats.
@larryc1616 Europe is a continent of multiple countries, and while they can make sovereign decisions, those decisions have consequences. Hollowing out industries is one such consequence. You speak of Russia in terms of Hitlerite Germany, but it was the Soviet Union that contributed the most critical role in defeating Germany during WW2. Regarding the conflict in Ukraine, do not forget that US/Nato committed its own share of provocations leading to the conflict.
@albback8176 soviet union was allied with Hitler until Hitler got greedy. The US saved England and the soviets in ww2 with war supplies. Europe wants to keep all of their countries from putin over cheap gas. FACTS.
Energy from Russia was not cheap anymore. Cheaper than LNG from the US, but not cheap. Natural gas powered plants where only profitable a few peak hours a day. Europe still regularly has negative electricity prices, while Russian Gas was prices where not negative. Note that these pipelines where expensive and ran though many other countries, each taking their cut.
It maybe too late, Who's gonna give them cheaper energy like Russia did? The Americans are so sneaky they buy Russian oil and then resell it to the Europeans at a mark up whilst telling them to "sacrifice" for Ukraine. What's happening between Europe and the U.S is like a money laundering scheme to profiteer at the misery of the European working class for the sake of American empirehood.
This is not a German specific problem. It's a general car manufacturer problem. The industry has been forced to develop EV:s and spreading development costs on all cars making them all to expensive. Most manufacturers sales points are full of cars no one can afford. Wolksvagen and Mercedes are just 2 brands among many that will have problems.
And yet a small start up company, without all of the expertise, supply chains, staff etc… was able to grown making only EVs and nothing else and not just survive, but thrive. Tesla also has larger profit margins that the automakers. What that shows is that there is a way. There was a way. But all of the automakers showed they really only know how to do what they have always done, make a mechanical ICE car. They thought all we need to do is swap the engine, gearbox and fuel tank with an electric motor and batteries, and we will do fine. Turns out there is much more to the electric car of the future as they are all finding out
There is no doubt about this. What happens is the RICH CATS at the top don't want to rock the boat calling out reality and risk being fired, so they all pretend everything is OK until the ship sinks so they can collect their big checks as long as they can
Europe sanctioned itself to death at the expense of people who mostly don't care about a war that was caused by one side violating a treaty signed in 1991. Germany is paying the ultimate price for incentivizing and promoting such behavior on behalf of USA.
Maybe Germans should start asking themselves why productions costs have risen so sharply since 2022.... Maybe the root cause or at least one of them lies beneath the Baltic Sea. Just saying.
I think smart Germans already know this. But the normal ones (especially non-university trained people) can't relate the Ukraine war (as well as the invisible hand of the US) with the misery in Germany right now. Why? The mass medias are controlled. For example, the majority of Germans think Russia actively cut off cheap energy for Germany, but in fact, Urusla-led EU did that! (and Scholz felt obliged to follow).
BMW stands for “Break My Wallet” . I have owned 3 BMWs. Maintenance costs are outrageous when you get to 60k miles. Parts are ridiculous expensive. Last BMW ever for me. Won’t buy MB for the same reason.
German auto technology supplier Bosch to cut thousands of jobs, citing stagnant demand for cars and new technology. Germany's technology and services company Bosch said on Friday it planned to reduce its automotive division workforce by as many as 5,500 jobs in the next several years in another sign of the headwinds hitting the German and global auto industries.
In Sweden, between 2016 and 2024, 441.382 EVs got registered, 280.537 of them are leased, 80.455 are sold to companies, not private persons. Really, not many are "buying" new EVs.
My dad used three consecutive Mercedes Benz generations but over the last 15 years the last three model cycles have had problem but I thought the last five years they had solved reliability and quality with ice car but their electric vehicles were the only problem
I did not buy a Mercedes simply due to the sales teams, so you can build all the cars you like, however if the sales person is useless then..You can work that out. Also the Mercedes Benz dealerships in 🇬🇧 are solely motivated to sell 1-2 year old cars ie used personal contract & lease returns, this has been their last ditched effort to compete & quite frankly it is is RUDE to it's customers, hence why I am no longer one.
German cars used to have brand value, But behind the brand is high quality, If German cars lose their quality advantage, Then the German brand is useless.
Ever tried working on a Mercedes Benz??? I would never buy one! I have worked on a VW and it wasn’t too bad. I personally only buy Honda or Toyota ICE vehicles. We plan on going electric as our vehicles age. I had a 2001 Honda accord that I drove in college and I drove it to 320k then sold it and it was still running well.
The impact on the German economy is likely to be significant. The entire automotive segment (OEMs only is only 430K) but adding in the supplier base yields a much larger: 779,662. As the suppliers for one OEM get fewer orders, the cost to other companies using the same components goes higher. This smells life a death spiral.
Mercedes should retool their factories. Close the current factories and redesign the car; so that it can be easily, robot assembled; and, use a plurality of different batteries. Imagine being able to pull onto a Mercedes Service Station to charge your battery in 10 - 20 minutes or exchange it in 5 minutes.
Let's not forget western auto companies set up factories in China knowing their local industries would pick up on no how and then overtake. This was all entirely predictable.
The Swedish motor magazine "Vi bilägare" is one of few motor magazines that conduct long mileage tests of cars. Of cars tested recently was one EV MG4 (cost 370 kSEK) and one ICE Mercedes (cost 600 kSEK). The cars were driven 37000 km each and then sold after one year. The conclusion was that the luxury Mercedes was not more expensive to own than the budget MG. The main reason for this was the quick depreciation of the MG (44%) compared to the Mercedes (19%). Of course the result may not be the same in other cointries.
An interesting but skewed test scenario IMHO. Cars are usually purchased new and kept for 3 years (UK company cars) or bought new (privately) and moved on quickly (rich buyers who don't care about depreciation) so this scenario doesn't really say anything useful. The comparative depreciation after 3 years would be considerably less (no hard facts here but used car prices tend to gravitate towards the mean in my experience) and the running costs for the EV would be much lower. Private buyers buying a three year old car could get a fully depreciated 2nd-hand MG EV at a low cost with low running costs or a more expensive Merc with much greater running costs and no real upside beyond the badge.
Theys math is very weird and superficial Merc lost: 0.19*600 = -114 kSEK(value loss) - 7 kSEK(service) - 51 kSEK (fuel cost) - 45 kSEK (loan costs or lost profit if you are buying with cache) Total Lost: 217 kSEK MG lost: 0.44*370 = -162 kSEK(value loss) - 10 kSEK (fuel cost) - 27 kSEK (loan costs or lost profit if you are buying with cache) + 0.25*370=92 kSEK (25% incentives) Total Lost: 107 kSEK The main reason for MG's 44% value loss is 25% incentives, who would buy a used car for a greater price than a new one?
The Unions are not saying no to layoffs. The Unions are asking for the whole plan and how exactly will the layoffs help the situation. And they get no answer.
Do not underestimate German resilience, after WWII the county was totally destroyed and humiliated. Yet within 20 years it came back as the powerhouse of Europe with a strong morale and ethical code written into politics, far removed from the past. Germany maybe in crisis, but if there is one country that can demonstrate it can create a phoenix from the ashes its Germany! BTW I am not German, but I worked a lot in Germany and I know deep down just how strong Germans are.
Germany industrial base is still more or less strong, but there is a saying: "Death by a thousand cuts." We hardly know which cut will lead to "tipping point" where domino effect kicks in.
When you see the guy in the video move his arm to gesture the door to close, everything thats wrong with german cars! Probably doesn’t even have heated seats but you can gesture the doors Lol.
BMW Is not as mismanaged as VW and better than Mercedes, but it has cuts and trouble coming. Out of the three it has the best chance to stay competitive in China, but its still at high risk.
Many years back, my 2007 Mitsubishi Eclipse had to go into the body shop after getting clipped, so my friends loaned me their 2-seater Mercedes [an SLK, if memory serves]. Most uncomfortable car I have ever had the misfortune of driving in my life. Could not wait to get back into my snug, snappy, comfy little Eclipse [sadly... RIP 2014] -
I bought a Tesla M3 5 years ago as its tech was a generation ahead of BMW & Merc. A lot of just little things eg OTA updates of all hardware are massive (and not so easy) in a fast moving market. No problems in 5 years that an OTA update or an engineers visit to my home has not fixed. Take a Merc to a dealer and its inconvenience and bland excuses and the risk of massive bills - so quaint. BTW Servicing over 5 year s - £ 75 for a cabin filter - carried out at home by a mobile Tesla mechanic.
How about not loading up cars with all kinds of plastic that break down in about 5 years? Also, electronics need to be more durable and cheaper to replace, such as using single board computers available on the open market.
Ironic, as MB and Toyota were initial investors in Tesla back in 2015. And Tesla had just open sourced their blueprints for EV design. Even if they did nothing with the technology, their TSLA shares would be keeping them afloat today. Why did they divest themselves of TSLA. No confidence? No vision?
1:59 See when the guy presses the button? The whole panel moves, it feels so cheap. That's what's wrong with them - Mercedes produces low quality cars. They used to be the best but now, I honestly think Toyota is higher quality and fraction of the cost.
Zusi means no business driven firing. You can still get kicked out for failing to follow the rules. Also, large companies can reduce headcount by not replacing retirees, without firing anyone. A company like Mercedes definitely has more than 2000 people per year retire. Offering good package for early retirement can get another several thousand out early.
German clauses @ Mercedes - you can still be fired as an individual. But you can not be fired in a large Layoff (Betriebsbedingte Kündigung) If your job falls away the company is supposed to find you another role in the firm and retrain you for that one.
We have had issues with lack of demands for yrs Germany probed up it's car sector of tax credit for ppl handing in their old cars to buy in during Merkel years and now they hit the end of the road Even in the Chinese sector you don't see those car manufacturers who don't make it That's after the amount of state aid china has poured in to get it's car sector up to a level
Feel for those losing their jobs. Feel nothing for Mercedes. Been taking the piss out of us for years and now its their turn to taste their own piss. 😂
My wife owned a BMW, and the maintenance costs were outrageous. Now she’s been driving a Subaru for 6 years, and it’s never required a repair.
Now imagine that, but not even oil changes. Tesla makes the best selling car in the world for a reason.
Me too!
Subaru is a great value.
Owned Subarus for 30+ years … never went wrong !
Was 600 - 700 for annual service on Ice merc , now have Tesla , zero costs
Mercedes Benz sales are declining because their cars are unreliable, contrary to popular beliefs.
100% This.
All German cars are...Porsche has turned to sht, and BMW has only now turned it around, the rest are junk.
When I was young, I dreamed of owning a Mercedes Benz ...
Now, I that I am grown & financially independent & sound, I stopped thinking of MB. I only look at Chinese EV.😊
I concur, worst car I ever have, also BMW (Break My Wallet) sucks!
What happene when you u use Renault engines in a mercedes benz. Stupid.
I’m 75 years old and I have had a Mercedes almost all my life. But the reliability issues are so massive that I drive a Honda now. In the states German cars as a whole have a miserable reputation.
The W212 (E 2009-2015) was a good Mercedes E-class, before that... mmm W124 from the 80s?
@@thetruth7633I don’t agree, I had 13 reg E class. The repaire cost was around £1k each year. Too much sensor and electronic issue. I don’t even want to mention the air suspension and stupid suspension pump!
I agree. My wife owned a BMW, and the maintenance costs were outrageous. Now she’s been driving a Subaru for 6 years, and it’s never required a repair.
@@yezih2694 They throw features on and design now for a life of 3 years.
German cars definitely have a reputation for high maintenance costs.
Lost innovation motive.
Lost Russian energy.
Lost Chinese market.
Lost to Tesla.
Lost to BYD.
Weakness and ignorance are not barriers to survival, but arrogance is.
But their WOKE rating was through the roof the last 20 years I am sure
@@travisjazzbo3490 also extreme left killed German industry, I mean the trampoline minister.
@@travisjazzbo3490 Do you mean the ultra-Left Trampoline minister?
Went green and killed their economy due to highest electricity cost in the world.
@@travisjazzbo3490Explain what you mean by woke
I’m just not buying a new car until an affordable and good quality EV comes along. Doesn’t matter what the brand is. I’m guessing I’m not alone.
Not sure you will be around to buy one in 150 years.
have no inters in an EV ……. buying old cars with less modern features
Exactly that. I was offered a few German alternatives from a broker to replace my Etron GT in the UK. ‘No Thanks’ was the answer, next car will be a Chinese EV, I want my car to have innovation, design and low price.
@@iamspartacus3114 Affordable EVs are very much here... From China. Tesla will be next
I'm not in a hurry to buy a new car, but when I finally do buy one it will definitely not be German. Nor Japanese or American..
Back in the seventies they were built like tanks & bulletproof, now the build quality is crap & they are expensive crap at that.
The billions they are forced to waste on EVs has to be made up by the cars people are buying- in lower quality and higher costs. Same with most manufacturers right now.
@SteveLomas-k6k sorry. Our 1990 VW was a disaster. As the man said our previous one was built like a tank and we loved it.
What in your opinion is bad regarding the build quality?
Still better crap than Chinese at this time
@@elainebradley8213my id4 is built 1000% better than atto 3
Drove from Seattle to Los Angeles and saw 3 Audis broken down on the side of the highway. Says something?!
BMW in my area.
Don't know, in my opinion AUDI's and VW stay on the road much longer and stay in good condition, so you might see more older ones by the side of the road. BMW on the other hand, you never see old BMWs any more, that says something.
I bought a 10 year old Audi A3, after my Chevy Volt PHEV unexpectedly died and I haven't saved enough for a Model3, Polestar2 or ID3 yet. Guy at the garage said it had a much better engine and build quality than newer AUDIs and I think he was right.
Vorsprung durch Technik
Hit 240k today. Appreciate you for all the knowledge and nuggets you had thrown my way over the last months. Started with 24k in September 2024..
Executives are frequently exempt from "performance-based" evaluations...
Mercedes is a joke these days. Quality has gone down, prices have gone up, and they buy their combustion engines from China.
Today they are a sea of cheap plastic, even under the bonnet.
And how about those general maintenance costs and parts? Ridiculous
all. cars ….. the more they modernize the crappier they get
@@gioiapharo7433 EVs are getting better and better all the time, however. Agreed on ICE though. For about 20 to 30 years they seem to be getting worse
EV have much less parts.
Been a MB customer (S-Class and up) since the Y2K, build quality has gone down dramatically around 2015-ish. And…their answer to this competitive disadvantage is to cut costs further. I see.
(master auto tech 40+ years, retired) 2015 seems to be when most car brands are getting ridiculous to repair (parts cost / labor times)
Problem is, if i test drive a new German car you can see they are cutting a lot of corners already.
The electification of anything leads to brutal cost reductions because one the materials science is cracked, you have solid state manufacturing, parts swapping, optimization and commoditization. Manufacturing mechanicals is ultimately bespoke and there is only so much automation that bolting blocks of metal can achieve. The computer industry showed this - from large metal cases with multiple boards to a single chip on a singe small board covered in plastic. Wheels & motors aside, this is where cars are going.
Good overview for why this trend is inevitable. We’ve seen this pattern before.
I disagree. Whilst you are perfectly correct with electronics - the more on a single piece of silicon the better really, a vehicle is an inherently mechanical device. EVs still have shock absorbers, brakes, heat pumps, transducers, all of which transform kinetic energy into heat or signals. Material breakdown happens, and with that, product failure. The fundamental issue with EVs is the battery is not a passive component, it is an electro-chemical reactor. Electric currents alter the chemical states of its constituents. If the battery is subjected to abuse via quick charging it is a bit like an ICE revved to the red line every gear change. The EV may use electricity as its prime mover, but it’s still subjected to environmental and human abuses, just like an ICE car. Also, ICE cars have been subjected to complex safety and emissions controls, which make the car more complex than would be ideal for perfect reliability. EVs at least do not have emissions controls. However, I feel the battery EV is not the ultimate personal transport vehicle. I believe the future should offer ICE with novel engine designs, hybrid power trains and, for sporting purposes, pure old fashioned ICE, as that provides the ultimate in power-to-weight ratios, at least for more than short bursts.
I remember when all these German car companies were laughing at tesla when they first started. Who's laughing now
China is laughing now
They were laughing at Toyota too.
wr
The era of German petrol cars are quickly coming to an end. Just like how Kodak was finished with the film business in the 2000s.
All high technology will eventually become obsolete, irrelevant and unwanted over time. Petrol cars are no exception.
The simple reason for this is the world _entire_ world is rapidly shifting to EVs, whether Germany likes it or not. Nothing more.
@@user-kc1tf7zm3b And EV's can have 2, 3, 4 and more wheels.
Greetings from Germany. I does not look good here. Perhaps it is time to start looking for the exit. But, where to go? Much of Europe is in a deep mess.
Ich denke Mandarin learnen.😊
I think using the strenght of the € to settle in a country with lower cost of living is the best choice for most people, saving up a bit of money before leaving. It's a long process and takes time but there are so many options in the world, unless you want to stay in Europe, which is a continent in decline.
@@RikuLeppanen Lots of Germans moving here to southern Germany-especially where I live here in Karlshamns. Our Waldorf School has recently enrolled lots of new German kids whose German parents have chosen to move here based on their ability to continue working their German jobs remotely. My wife who also works at the Waldorf School says there are many new German kids enrolling at the other Waldorf Schools here in southern Sweden, such as in Lund and Höör.
Thanks to Ursula and the German government.
Why stay in Europe? I go to many Asian countries and i could see myself living there. Many westerners are moving to places like Thailand, Singapore, UAE, Oman and you have China and SAR's Macau and Hong Kong. Some smaller places like Malaysia and Vietnam have become favorites. Even more develop places like S Korea and Japan have far lower cost of living than Europe. Do yourself a favor and i promise you won't regret it. Get your passport and spend time travelling in Asian countries. Get into digital nomading as many countries are now offering digital nomad visas. I think you can take advantage of the relatively strong Euro while it still lasts. Don't wait because in 5-10 years Europe as a project could collapse.
Europeans ( including Brits ) should prepare for UBI .
it would be better than the pitiful pension they give me
Most people in the "developed world" including Canada are going to need one... EV's from China eliminate Ontario/Quebec manufacturing jobs and the need for Alberta crude everything including oil... Not to mention far-right ideologies oozing out of Calgary...
I've driven Mercedes-Benz for years, 190 series, 200 and 300 series,S class, G wagon, and Unimog. They were never perfect, but no other brand was😊
Nothing signals "austerity" like a Merc in the driveway 🤣
Loving it, long may it continue...
A classic Merc is still worth having, those that start with a number not a letter.
Let's be honest. Their quality currently is junk compared to their W124 glory days. Cutting costs will mean lower quality. Given their customer demographics, they stand to lose more sales.
The era of German petrol cars are quickly coming to an end. Just like how Kodak was finished with the film business in the 2000s.
All high technology will eventually become obsolete, irrelevant and unwanted over time. Petrol cars are no exception.
The simple reason for this is the world _entire_ world is rapidly shifting to EVs, whether Germany likes it or not. Nothing more.
@user-kc1tf7zm3b yes, I totally agree. Once upon a time, they made some great cars. Nowadays they can't keep up with the manufacturing process technology, the software for their EVs are outdated, they don't control their own supply chain. It's sad to look at, but if the company cannot keep pace with current trends and competitors, they will end up like rover and jaguar. Has beens😊
LOL totally saw that coming. Their cars are low in quality and reliability….AND their EV’s are TRASH 🚮
Having worked for a major OEM for 20 years I could see almost a decade ago most will fail, as they simply cannot change their mindset as fast as a startup build on the concept of SW defined vehicle. Its not the Electric motor itself that will see them off but the move towards software defined vehicle, and the speed of which changes now need to be implemented. I remember being in meetings upon meetings for Model year updates, Change review boards, off tooling, gate reviews, PAPP etc etc, now all that is a button press.
The expression that these OEMS hate and cannot accept is "cars are becoming mobile phones", they hate that expression as they know deep down if this is so, they will not be able to complete. OEMs have build their business on the ability of integrated design of thousands of mechanical components and suppliers with vast logistical supply change. Now the main KCDS will be a software change not a component change.
I would like to think some new German start ups could complete, but the Big OLD OEMS with a Union system that simply is not build for fast decision making will collapse. I have a lot of friends in Germany so I am not gloating over this. But they just cannot complete, and never will. The unions just like with Opel will seal the fate of VW, but the fate of VW will be far worse than Opel, but Opel will now sink with Stellantis, but it could have stayed with GM if the Opel Unions played ball.
Compete NOT complete. Don't you understand English? You don't sound very professional.
@@peterrhodes5663 Ah if you would know anything about engineers many of them like me are dyslexic. If your only argument is to correcto me grammaroo YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT! Lets here a technical response from you why I am wrong? Are you capabel :)
We can't afford it.
Woops dividend time! Cha Ching!!!
Traditional car manufacturers are some of the last decent employers from the old times. You could work till 55, get a nice pension, and retire fairly young. They are all now being destroyed by design.
At BYD I guess you work till you die
It was never sustainable.
Turn the production lines into dark factories, no more labour disputes.
The last great Mercedes was the w124, and they killed that almost 30 years ago. Just like Boeing at the same time they stopped building the best product they possibly could, and instead chased profit, and look where both companies are today.
There's always debate on W123 versus W124 however and having owned several of the former and one of the latter I looked at both last week. I went within other W124 mainly on corrosion evidence, but I have to say W123 door closing is up there with W116 and W100. I fear another 450SEL W116 is looming, but a sizeable fleet of proper Mercedes can be had for less than one of their modern plastic rubbish.
@philhealey4443 You magnificent bastard, now you have me looking at used w113s 280sl's.
C124 owner here... Agree, that's a great quality car. I'd say W140 was the last proper S-class.
A big problem with both Mercedes and BMW is that they are not build like they used to. New Mercedes depreciate 50% of it's value in a year. Repair costs of 5+ year old vehicles is crazy expensive, and thing like the fancy air suspension can be upwards of $20k to fix. Nobody wants that.
Well said ! after 100,000 miles , European cars are worthless, everyone knows the repair costs !
Once people moved to Germany for work. Those times are over.
There are more Germans going to Italy than Italians to Germany.
Germany relied on all this immigration to fill the jobs Germans didn't want. Now the migrants have discovered unemployment benefits.
I like how you upload new contents so quickly.
Dieselgate was the first indicator for me and the failure of the VW. 😎
Yes that is so and yet how many people have forgotten it.
It is really not surprising: vehicle costs have gone through the roof and the cars have become overcomplicated with a lot of unneccessary gadgets, also sold at inflated prices. With this overcomplication, comes unreliability and quality issues. With oil and fuel prices still being very high, the heavy behemoths add an extra cost factor. Simply put, these vehicles have become too costly.
They put lots of gadgets into cars because they say that consumers demand them, which I think is balderdash. Most people want uncomplicated basic transport which is reliable and econo mical . Those who buy cars with all the bells and whistles tend to do so to show off to friends and colleagues and probably never use all the functions of the infotainment systems anyway. All carmakers do this for fear of losing sales to a competitor.
@@eish3291 What you are really asking for is a Citroen Oli the ultimate simple car. If only they would make it perhaps with Tavares gone they will.
About time Car Manufacturers went back to basics
4 Spark Plugs, Speedo, Tachometer, Seats, Ignition Key, 4 Wheels with Disc Brakes & no fcking computers
Unfortunately, it's not possible to not have computers due to emission standards. However, it might be possible to use single board computers that are on the open market.
Most people would not buy it no matter what you wish. Computers dominate now and are cheap and ultra reliable.
I work at a MNC in Germany, we are un-fireable
No if they broke.
Why not move your factories to Ukraine, Mercedes?
They already have in Hungary, close enough. Even have a plant in South Africa. Build quality is truly good out of South Africa.
Cars were "sold" on lease/hire, but then there's no private buyer market for them after that and now they are stuck with them at inflated prices. If they mark them down to where they'll sell, then they have to book a loss, and they don't want that.
this really says how bad things are. when a company with such high profit margins.
The problem with the European Union approach is that they dictate terms with a weak hand. They incompetently create a weak production environment by cutting off their cheapest source of energy from Russia, while demanding that both domestic and foreign brands to produce domestically or face penalties. Furthernore, where EVs are concerned, they block out foreign manufacturers without investing in their own innovation. A Dog will not do tricks without treats.
They stupidly shut down reliable nuclear power.
Europe prefers having a country over cheap gas from adolf putin
@larryc1616
Europe is a continent of multiple countries, and while they can make sovereign decisions, those decisions have consequences. Hollowing out industries is one such consequence.
You speak of Russia in terms of Hitlerite Germany, but it was the Soviet Union that contributed the most critical role in defeating Germany during WW2.
Regarding the conflict in Ukraine, do not forget that US/Nato committed its own share of provocations leading to the conflict.
@albback8176 soviet union was allied with Hitler until Hitler got greedy. The US saved England and the soviets in ww2 with war supplies. Europe wants to keep all of their countries from putin over cheap gas. FACTS.
Energy from Russia was not cheap anymore. Cheaper than LNG from the US, but not cheap. Natural gas powered plants where only profitable a few peak hours a day. Europe still regularly has negative electricity prices, while Russian Gas was prices where not negative. Note that these pipelines where expensive and ran though many other countries, each taking their cut.
europe is deindustrializing at an alarming rate they will need to rethink their relationship with America in the near future.
That's good for the climate.
Highly doubt it. If anything, it could turn Europe towards the East, to Russia and China.
It maybe too late, Who's gonna give them cheaper energy like Russia did? The Americans are so sneaky they buy Russian oil and then resell it to the Europeans at a mark up whilst telling them to "sacrifice" for Ukraine. What's happening between Europe and the U.S is like a money laundering scheme to profiteer at the misery of the European working class for the sake of American empirehood.
@@sunedalred8694
What difference does it make to the environment if stuffs made in China instead.
@@jackkruese4258he is sarcastically trolling Germans……Greta thumberg 😅😅
I live on another continent, Mercedes services centre treat you like rubbish when your merc car goes beyond 5 years old.
This is not a German specific problem. It's a general car manufacturer problem. The industry has been forced to develop EV:s and spreading development costs on all cars making them all to expensive. Most manufacturers sales points are full of cars no one can afford. Wolksvagen and Mercedes are just 2 brands among many that will have problems.
And yet a small start up company, without all of the expertise, supply chains, staff etc… was able to grown making only EVs and nothing else and not just survive, but thrive. Tesla also has larger profit margins that the automakers. What that shows is that there is a way. There was a way. But all of the automakers showed they really only know how to do what they have always done, make a mechanical ICE car. They thought all we need to do is swap the engine, gearbox and fuel tank with an electric motor and batteries, and we will do fine. Turns out there is much more to the electric car of the future as they are all finding out
I do wonder why many people saw this coming years ago, but the car companies couldn’t (or could but buried their heads in the sand)?
There is no doubt about this. What happens is the RICH CATS at the top don't want to rock the boat calling out reality and risk being fired, so they all pretend everything is OK until the ship sinks so they can collect their big checks as long as they can
Europe sanctioned itself to death at the expense of people who mostly don't care about a war that was caused by one side violating a treaty signed in 1991. Germany is paying the ultimate price for incentivizing and promoting such behavior on behalf of USA.
Maybe Germans should start asking themselves why productions costs have risen so sharply since 2022.... Maybe the root cause or at least one of them lies beneath the Baltic Sea. Just saying.
It's a combination, many fronts. DEI, high energy costs, net zero rules that make cars very expensive etc.
Net zero = zero cars made.
well said....its crazy that they dont investigate what truly happened there. they sabotage germany and they are chill about it
German politicians dare not ask such questions, Because their phone has a back door.
So what they can do? The damage was inflicted. Scholz and co refused to use NS2.
I think smart Germans already know this. But the normal ones (especially non-university trained people) can't relate the Ukraine war (as well as the invisible hand of the US) with the misery in Germany right now. Why? The mass medias are controlled. For example, the majority of Germans think Russia actively cut off cheap energy for Germany, but in fact, Urusla-led EU did that! (and Scholz felt obliged to follow).
so sad that is what you get if you do not take a disrupter (Tesla) serieus!
Not sure why firing is used. It’s laying off with severance. Totally different.
BMW stands for “Break My Wallet” . I have owned 3 BMWs. Maintenance costs are outrageous when you get to 60k miles. Parts are ridiculous expensive. Last BMW ever for me. Won’t buy MB for the same reason.
German auto technology supplier Bosch to cut thousands of jobs, citing stagnant demand for cars and new technology.
Germany's technology and services company Bosch said on Friday it planned to reduce its automotive division workforce by as many as 5,500 jobs in the next several years in another sign of the headwinds hitting the German and global auto industries.
Unaffordable 🇩🇪employment forcing German companies to close factories- who could have predicted???
In Sweden, between 2016 and 2024, 441.382 EVs got registered, 280.537 of them are leased, 80.455 are sold to companies, not private persons. Really, not many are "buying" new EVs.
And petrol / diesel cars are 'sold' to the dealerships not end users
Dude Watch out for the UV 🙏😂😂
My dad used three consecutive Mercedes Benz generations but over the last 15 years the last three model cycles have had problem but I thought the last five years they had solved reliability and quality with ice car but their electric vehicles were the only problem
I did not buy a Mercedes simply due to the sales teams, so you can build all the cars you like, however if the sales person is useless then..You can work that out. Also the Mercedes Benz dealerships in 🇬🇧 are solely motivated to sell 1-2 year old cars ie used personal contract & lease returns, this has been their last ditched effort to compete & quite frankly it is is RUDE to it's customers, hence why I am no longer one.
Thanks America.
MBD inc. Drone w/badge
German cars are the only cars I see that break down on the side of the road these days.
It is quite sad
Wait a minute, they only have 16,600 employees !
....the problem with their electric cars is that they are electric...the market demand electric is just more limited
Tesla is expanding its German factory by 2X.
Yep... A LOT of applicants to Tesla I am sure... Unfortunately, Tesla is so advanced with robotics that not a ton of people will likely be needed
Shouldn’t have built it there in the first place.
@@Shawn-o4z8y Turned you down did they?
This is a long time coming. The German cars are too expensive compared to the Chinese BYD, Avatr, Aito etc.
And Zeekr, MG, Li Auto, Nio, Xpeng and many more...
German cars have long been relying on parts from China. Now complete "German" EV are made in China
Merc cars now have many brittle expensive plastic parts, and cost a fortune that no one has.
German cars used to have brand value, But behind the brand is high quality, If German cars lose their quality advantage, Then the German brand is useless.
German car brands have lost their quality advantage.
Legacy autos are slowly crumbling 🎉🎉🎉 let’s go TSLA 🚀🚀🌛
But hey look interior light strips !
Ever tried working on a Mercedes Benz??? I would never buy one! I have worked on a VW and it wasn’t too bad. I personally only buy Honda or Toyota ICE vehicles. We plan on going electric as our vehicles age. I had a 2001 Honda accord that I drove in college and I drove it to 320k then sold it and it was still running well.
Reminds me of British deindustrializatiom during the Thatcher era.
The impact on the German economy is likely to be significant. The entire automotive segment (OEMs only is only 430K) but adding in the supplier base yields a much larger: 779,662. As the suppliers for one OEM get fewer orders, the cost to other companies using the same components goes higher. This smells life a death spiral.
introducing austerity cuts? .. pay cuts for executives?
Electric dreams 😂😂😂
go WOKE go broke
Mercedes should retool their factories. Close the current factories and redesign the car; so that it can be easily, robot assembled; and, use a plurality of different batteries.
Imagine being able to pull onto a Mercedes Service Station to charge your battery in 10 - 20 minutes or exchange it in 5 minutes.
Let's not forget western auto companies set up factories in China knowing their local industries would pick up on no how and then overtake. This was all entirely predictable.
See if they can repeat it in India. Talk is cheap and easy. Without work ethics and wish to be competitive. Day dream!
Following the world policeman your country is going south. Look at japan south korea......you lose market but who is going to put food on the table.
The Swedish motor magazine "Vi bilägare" is one of few motor magazines that conduct long mileage tests of cars. Of cars tested recently was one EV MG4 (cost 370 kSEK) and one ICE Mercedes (cost 600 kSEK). The cars were driven 37000 km each and then sold after one year. The conclusion was that the luxury Mercedes was not more expensive to own than the budget MG. The main reason for this was the quick depreciation of the MG (44%) compared to the Mercedes (19%). Of course the result may not be the same in other cointries.
An interesting but skewed test scenario IMHO. Cars are usually purchased new and kept for 3 years (UK company cars) or bought new (privately) and moved on quickly (rich buyers who don't care about depreciation) so this scenario doesn't really say anything useful. The comparative depreciation after 3 years would be considerably less (no hard facts here but used car prices tend to gravitate towards the mean in my experience) and the running costs for the EV would be much lower. Private buyers buying a three year old car could get a fully depreciated 2nd-hand MG EV at a low cost with low running costs or a more expensive Merc with much greater running costs and no real upside beyond the badge.
Theys math is very weird and superficial
Merc lost:
0.19*600 = -114 kSEK(value loss) - 7 kSEK(service) - 51 kSEK (fuel cost) - 45 kSEK (loan costs or lost profit if you are buying with cache)
Total Lost: 217 kSEK
MG lost:
0.44*370 = -162 kSEK(value loss) - 10 kSEK (fuel cost) - 27 kSEK (loan costs or lost profit if you are buying with cache) + 0.25*370=92 kSEK (25% incentives)
Total Lost: 107 kSEK
The main reason for MG's 44% value loss is 25% incentives, who would buy a used car for a greater price than a new one?
MB once was a good car now days it is only high maintenance and headache car.
Germany go go go.
Austerity measures? Let's begin with senior executives' compensation and benefits....
Thank God I left before the sh.t hit the fan
Europe, please stop wars and focus on construction.
Wef policies in action
meanwhile me doing burnouts in 5,5 v8 190E looking at those pathetic c63 2.0 on traffic lights
The Unions are not saying no to layoffs. The Unions are asking for the whole plan and how exactly will the layoffs help the situation. And they get no answer.
Germany is past de industrialization, it's actually falling apart...
Thanks to Ursula and the German government.
@@hermesliteratus882
You forgot uaasss.
To be fair, that’s been said about Germany before….
Do not underestimate German resilience, after WWII the county was totally destroyed and humiliated. Yet within 20 years it came back as the powerhouse of Europe with a strong morale and ethical code written into politics, far removed from the past. Germany maybe in crisis, but if there is one country that can demonstrate it can create a phoenix from the ashes its Germany! BTW I am not German, but I worked a lot in Germany and I know deep down just how strong Germans are.
Germany industrial base is still more or less strong, but there is a saying: "Death by a thousand cuts." We hardly know which cut will lead to "tipping point" where domino effect kicks in.
This seems to be the problem of all companies in the world. All that seems to matter anymore is the returns for shareholders & investors.
There is only one 12:00 that is at night and that is 12am
The layoffs worldwide is out of control, this decade will be remembered as the unemployment decade.
I would happily buy a German car but I need them to start making them more reliable, low maintenance, less tech.
Because of that I will buy Mazda or Toyota...
Cars are too expensive where manufacturers have reduced production costs
When you see the guy in the video move his arm to gesture the door to close, everything thats wrong with german cars! Probably doesn’t even have heated seats but you can gesture the doors Lol.
this is just the begining very soon you will see wide spread declines in every major german industry , power tools and chemical products would be next
Well so much for VW and MBZ.
Is BMW somehow avoiding the massive downsizing/cutbacks?
BMW Is not as mismanaged as VW and better than Mercedes, but it has cuts and trouble coming. Out of the three it has the best chance to stay competitive in China, but its still at high risk.
Many years back, my 2007 Mitsubishi Eclipse had to go into the body shop after getting clipped, so my friends loaned me their 2-seater Mercedes [an SLK, if memory serves]. Most uncomfortable car I have ever had the misfortune of driving in my life. Could not wait to get back into my snug, snappy, comfy little Eclipse [sadly... RIP 2014] -
I bought a Tesla M3 5 years ago as its tech was a generation ahead of BMW & Merc. A lot of just little things eg OTA updates of all hardware are massive (and not so easy) in a fast moving market. No problems in 5 years that an OTA update or an engineers visit to my home has not fixed. Take a Merc to a dealer and its inconvenience and bland excuses and the risk of massive bills - so quaint. BTW Servicing over 5 year s - £ 75 for a cabin filter - carried out at home by a mobile Tesla mechanic.
How about not loading up cars with all kinds of plastic that break down in about 5 years? Also, electronics need to be more durable and cheaper to replace, such as using single board computers available on the open market.
Ironic, as MB and Toyota were initial investors in Tesla back in 2015. And Tesla had just open sourced their blueprints for EV design. Even if they did nothing with the technology, their TSLA shares would be keeping them afloat today. Why did they divest themselves of TSLA. No confidence? No vision?
Vision ... Only in marketing
1:59 See when the guy presses the button? The whole panel moves, it feels so cheap. That's what's wrong with them - Mercedes produces low quality cars. They used to be the best but now, I honestly think Toyota is higher quality and fraction of the cost.
And they need to let those employees whose salary is the highest, so probably at home in Germany.
Merc...
Let's make a ute...
Hello, is that Nissan!? Deal done.
Fail.
Zusi means no business driven firing. You can still get kicked out for failing to follow the rules. Also, large companies can reduce headcount by not replacing retirees, without firing anyone. A company like Mercedes definitely has more than 2000 people per year retire. Offering good package for early retirement can get another several thousand out early.
It’s ok they have the best autonomous software out there …😂
German clauses @ Mercedes - you can still be fired as an individual. But you can not be fired in a large Layoff (Betriebsbedingte Kündigung) If your job falls away the company is supposed to find you another role in the firm and retrain you for that one.
We have had issues with lack of demands for yrs
Germany probed up it's car sector of tax credit for ppl handing in their old cars to buy in during Merkel years and now they hit the end of the road
Even in the Chinese sector you don't see those car manufacturers who don't make it
That's after the amount of state aid china has poured in to get it's car sector up to a level
Feel for those losing their jobs. Feel nothing for Mercedes. Been taking the piss out of us for years and now its their turn to taste their own piss. 😂