Ranking How EVERY Character Should Change In Smash 6
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ต.ค. 2024
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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is a culmination of all the Smash games that came before, which shows off the good, and the... not so good that the series has done over the years. With the Nintendo Switch 2 on the near horizon, now's a great time to take a look at the entire roster, from Mario to Sora, and create a tier list going over how well set up they are to move into the next Smash game.
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Music used:
"MockRock Is Here (Relaxed)" - MockRock
"MockRock is Here" - MockRock
"By Now" - MockRock
"Match Point!" - Mario Tennis Aces OST
"Assassin Disco" - Princess Peach: Showtime! OST
"Gerudo Valley" - Ocarina of Time OST (Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS Remix)
"Meta Knight, Sword of the Surviving Guardian" - Kirby and the Forgotten Land OST
"Donkey Kong / Donkey Kong Jr. Medley" - Donkey Kong & Donkey Kong Jr. OSTs (Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Remix)
"Title Theme" - Animal Crossing: Happy Home Designer OST (Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Remix)
"Conquest (Ablaze)" - Fire Emblem Awakening OST
"Splattack! (C-Side Version)" - Splatoon 3 OST
"Earth" - Minecraft Earth OST
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I am a super duper Ultimate Roy hater
His aerials should be noodles because that's what make his combos satisfying
Also they gutted Flare Blade and it will always make me sad
Turns out my suggestion was bang on. First time this year!
@@varietychan sssssa4wess4sasasaaassssaasasaaeaeases4sRte a
Just wanted to add a note about Mii Swordfighter as one of his few mains. I agree that it's weird that he's the one mii that has their own identity and isn't based heavily on another character, but it makes sense that the swordfighter would be like that. We already have so many fundemental swordfighters (to the point where a lot of people complain about it) and adding another wouldn't really add anything substantive to the game.
I agree that it's a really weird kit for a mii and don't disagree that he needs a rework, I just don't know what you could do with him without just making him lucina 2.0
If they're gonna bring Ridley back I NEED him to feel like an actually ruthless and violent character instead of having moves in Smash that just make him feel like "Ridley the man-person-dude-guy".
They did do really well with space pirate rush. The move feels brutal to use.
Imagine how cool it would be if his down air sweet spot buried grounded opponents
He has like 4 moves that really lean into him being a vicious killing machine, and one of them is basically Falcon Punch level useful.
He should also be a good air fighter. Fast air movement, a tail hop down air instead of his shitty one.
@mochaman29 YES. Literally one of his most iconic moves in the Metroid series is his tail pogo stick. As decent as his dair is in a pinch or a rare occurrence, they're really missing out on making him our go-to flying heavy.
Diddy Kong in Smash Bros. feels less like "Diddy Kong the character" and more like "Sakurai designed a moveset around the concept of *M O N K E Y ."*
Can you elaborate? Most of his moves stem from his canon games.
The big thing is his voice. Banana is already a fundamentally oppresive concept, and the fact that it's accompanied by obnoxiously realistic monkey screeches makes the experience of playing against him 1000x worse.
I can never see Diddy Kong in the same way after... recent events
@@NairMcgee1What he did to the others at his parties on Kong Island… It’s just not the same.
WHY ARE YOU EVERYWHERE!!! Holy how is it you get a top comment on everything I see?!
I've always thought about how one-note Olimar's playstyle is in Smash but I also think that he should have more focus on Pikmin preservation. In Smash he's essentially rewarded for constantly sacrificing his Pikmin when resource preservation is extremely important to both Pikmin gameplay AND Olimar's character. Maybe make the flower buffs on their heads more apparent in exchange for slower plucking?
Resource based characters annoy me in Smash, because it always feels like they get too much bonus benefit from their mechanics without really being penalized for running out. (Aside from poor Kazooie and her breegull pattern baldness.) It takes Olimar no time to pluck new pikmin. It takes no time for Inkling to recharge their ink. It only takes Robin a few seconds to recover their tools, and they've got fifty to fall back on when they run out of one. Hero and Joker build up their reserves regularly just by playing the game. Steve can mine and craft new resources at lightning speed. It just feels like the risk-reward scales are heavily stacked on the "reward" side of things, which makes them obnoxious to fight. The only consistent weakness to a resource character's gimmick is "Play like a complete idiot." which isn't exactly something you can regularly capitalize on as an opponent.
@@Cyberguy64 I think robin’s resource management was balanced well enough compared to the others, if they lose the levin sword you’re forced to use a much shittier weapon and losing the tomes just makes it so you can’t even do anything until it comes back, and making that worse would only make them a worse character and robin is already kind of mid anyways
From my experience, you were pretty well rewarded in Sm4sh for preserving specific Pikmin lines ups. (2x purple + 1x blue was super fun to terrorize people at high %)
However in Ult the Pikmins health is just too low , so it's too difficult to preserve them.
... especially since , when you throw them from high up , and they land on the stage , they lose health.
Also he should really have Moss and maybe bitter/spicy spray to emphasize the ressource management theme by make them separate ressources.
Always thought Pikachu would be better as a starter character since he's super recognizable to newcomers, but he just doesn't feel very beginner friendly with how complex his up-b and the rest of his gameplay is like.
Is his up b really that complicated though? Like I guess it’s more than most other up bs but it’s literally just 1 or 2 dashes depending on where you angle it
@@HuneeBruh When I play online I always die when I play him (I play random) because the 2nd quick attack just doesn’t fucking come out and im not sure if its the lag, me being bad with him or both, so yeah its not super beginner friendly compared to most up b recoveries since most of them are just a one and done thing
If it was more like greninjas where the second part of it always comes out regardless of your imput, I’d say it would be a lot better “accessibility” wise, makes it much easier for beginners while keeping its unique traits
Little Mac's KO punch isn't made up, although it hasn't been a thing in the series since Super Punch-Out!! on the SNES. Giving him the Star Punch could be more interesting, for sure.
Maybe they could make it so that landing specific moves or doing particular things to counter other characters gives him stars?
@@monstermaker73 Yeah, that'd be cool! I would personally love if punishing specific fighters' moves gave him star.
If timing how his smash attacks, blocks and counters landed effectively gave him stars, then maybe Little Mac with 3 stars could just have better movement in the air and damage outut to match?
@@monstermaker73Little Mac feels like one of the few characters where a counter attack SHOULD be central to his kit, but as is, his Slip Counter is only really used as a niche recovery mixup and edgeguarding checkmate.
I’d love to see it get reworked into a more intricate parry or a command dodge with a tight frame window to really emphasize the importance of timing and evasiveness-something like Guilty Gear Slayer’s Dandy Step.
People say this, but while getting the KO punch is like Super, the functionality of it being a single use attack is more like the Star Punch, so it’s an odd hybrid
Bowser can stay the same... Just so long as he gets his REAL voice. I don't get Sakurai's obsession with making the heavyweight villains so "beastly." Even Dedede for some reason has a deep monster voice (which is much less monster-like in the Kirby games).
Didn't Sakurai create and voice Dedede?
@@sonoftheway3528 yes he did
Give him fireballs instead of firebreath and also change some normals to be more inspired in canon
I like Bowser but he needs a shakeup badly, he's a grappler with bad throws which just makes him a worse DK for the most part. IMO they should spice up his claw attacks and make him a into a kind of superheavy short-range swordie with faster smashes and better pokes at the expense of his grappling. And I agree with the other guy, give him a fireball. It's 2024; heavies/grapplers can have projectiles.
@@sonoftheway3528 Yes but that doesn't make it any less outdated.
unfortunately as the number 1 kh2 glazer, nair loops are VERY faithful to sora's source material lmao
Some people don't like it when they make up attacks that aren't references to anything (a notable one being Inkling's kicking attacks, which has nothing to do with the Splatoon games) but I honestly really like it when they do that, so long as its not excessive (like with Mario). Inkling's forward air is one of the most satisfying attacks in their moveset imo.
I mean if you think about it, characters like Captain Falcon wouldn't even be in Smash Bros. if they didn't make up random moves for him to use, so it definitely has its place.
as someone whose favorite nintendo franchise is splatoon, i care less about the random kick and more that they chose to make inkling exclusively a splatoon 1 character. splatoon 2 was over a year old when smash ult came out and while I get that inkling was probs planned and made in 2016 or so, I still wish they at least made a Octoling that references the Splatoon 2 stuff.
For non Splatoon fans it may sound weird, but Octoling has an opportunity for an entirely new moveset referencing Splatoon 2. Inkjet, Tenta Missiles, Dualies, Nautilus, Explosher, Clash Blaster and other stuff referencing the Octo Expansion campaign leaves more than enough material
also smash misses out on a lot of iconic stuff in splatoon 1, too. kraken, inkzooka, main examples
and for those who dont pay attention to splatoon, splatoon 2 / 3 also have an entirely different artstyle than splatoon 1 too which makes the smash rep even more awkward
@@internetguy7319 True.
@@lasercraft32 I actually would disagree with Mario's being excessive. Keeping FLUDD all this time is kinda dumb not gonna lie that's the only thing I would change. All of his Smash moves are either iconic to the series or work really well with each other while still feeling like something Mario would do. I don't see the need to add something even with Mario's history. What we have now works really well especially for the archetype and playstyle Mario has.
Marios issue is that his moveset is not intuitive at all which is a massive diservice to his character
Shulk is done reasonably well. Shulk is a relatively simple fighter in Xenoblade 1, but the Monado Arts form the mechanical core of his kit. Like in Smash, the real skill involved when controlling Shulk is deciding how and when to apply each Art in a given situation. I think taking this sort of mediocre swordsman and augmenting his kit with Monado Arts in Smash makes a lot of sense and fits the character nicely.
Visions form another important mechanic in Xenoblade, though they aren’t really done that great in Smash. A counter move isn’t an unreasonable implementation, but I’d have loved for Vision to have more defensive utility or even interact with Monado Arts somehow, as those two mechanics are nearly inextricable from one another in XC.
No, I think my main problem with Shulk in Smash is that his Back Slash fucking sucks lol. This is one of his most iconic Arts in Xenoblade: it’s his Fireball, his Spin Attack, his Homing Attack. Often, your main gameplan with Shulk revolves around finding ways to sneak Back Slash damage into a fight and get away without drawing too much aggro. It should really have more utility than as a niche airdodge read and high recovery tool.
seconded and adding a personal gripe on too
Can we please make Back Slash actually look like the games? The thing is a jumping slam attack and it currently feels like he just falls forward on opponents.
Get ready for Smash 6 to cut characters, but have the returning veterans be basically the same as previous games
The best of both worlds
As long as they don’t touch Pac-Man idgaf who’s in the game or not
Ah yes, the Pokémon approach
the way I view Mario and Kirby as the ones with "show you how the game works" movesets is that Kirby's gives players a feeling of what the outline of a moveset generally is, while Mario's shows you what unique things movesets can do
Kirby's forward smash is a simple kick with straight forward hitboxes, Mario's has a sweetspot that makes you consider spacing. Most of Kirby's specials fulfill general attacking purposes, while Mario has a reflector and a chargeable special move that just pushes people away that show players the less conventional functions some special moves can bring with them, etc
they need some updates here and there to make them feel just a bit more fresh, but I think breaking away from those outlines in the process would be a little unfortunate
Kirby can represent his canon abilities and still fulfil that role; it's not mutually exclusive. He's only been overtly simple because of limitations, but he would NOT play like this as a dlc character. Kirby has so many abilities with full movesets, yet it's still beginner friendly. Smash would be no exception.
@@djdrizzy9139 I'm not saying we can't have both and I know he's not suggesting a full rework that breaks away from that role, I just wanted to give my perspective lmao
@@djdrizzy9139 I don't feel like we could use the "if they were a DLC character" argument for Kirby because of his archetype. DLC comes out after the game is initially launched so DLC will usually naturally have more complex movesets or gimmicks unique to them. Kirby first and foremost is a character that teaches you the game and what does what. I think his current moveset is fine for what it's supposed to be (except Up B) and don't feel like adding abilities is necessary especially since he has 6 already represented in his moveset and technically 7 with his gimmick of copying a character's Neutral B.
@@castform7 If Kirby were dlc or included in Smash after Brawl, he'd match his series more. Kirby has unlimited potential with his canon powers; there's even a Kirby fighting game dedicated to this concept! Why does he have to remain the same basic character from the 64 days 25 years ago? It's time for him to be modernised and fully represent the games he's from, and the powers modern Kirby fans know him for. Even if you think he should keep the same generic kicks and the same specials, why do that when he's been the same for over 2 decades? A modern take on Kirby is a big win for casual and competitors alike, and he still would be a "basic" character.
@@djdrizzy9139 Yes and that Kirby fighting game has entire movesets based around one ability. Fire isn't using Ninja's Blossom storm. Kirby doesn't need to be this chimera of different abilities and like I said he's a beginner character, something that doesn't work with the "if they were DLC" argument. All of Kirby's moves have very clear indicators of what they do and where they send (except Up B, the one massive problem I have with the moveset). There's a cleaness there that becomes lost as he pulls out a weapon or new power. Just like Yoshi, I don't think there's much here that needs fixing or modernizing.
As a Rosalina Main who grew up playing Mario Galaxy... Rosalina is nearly PERFECT. My _only_ complaint is that there isn't enough of that iconic Spin Attack from Galaxy in her moveset (the same spin attack she was given in 3D World).
I like to think they tried to capture the essence of the spin attack with nair but because it is a nair they did it vertical instead of horizontal, oh there's Luma's flurry attack too
@@lasercraft32 I think maybe the Spin could work as a new Neutral Air that has a unique property of stalling in the air to reference the midair jump without explicitly giving Rosa a second midair jump.
We need a biblical rapture for Sonic's moveset.
For Ganondorf, the canon powers would be a great addition but he's already pretty fun. Give him a Peach float and a Neutral B volley projectile and he should be all set!
isn't that just how they did it in project M?
Imo he shouldn’t have a peach float, because ganon shouldn’t be a technical character, if you give him a float it should be like in a smash mod (can’t remember which one) where they give him the float as a move where he moves around in the air really fast and smooth, and you can cancel it with a move.
@@BringBackOGClubPenguin hewdraw remix
@@Glory2Snowstar In my opinion Sonic's moveset isn't that bad. Yes, either Spin Dash or Spin Charge needs to go but I don't mind the rest of his moveset if I'm being honest.
Sonic is perfectly fine aside from maybe spin dash clashing or beating projectiles. He fights like how you would expect sonic to fight. The approach they took towards making sonic make sense is the same approach they should have with the rest of the cast
MockRock is one of the only Smash youtubers out there that will go this in depth talking about the game design behind Smash Bros and I love it. You are doing a great service to the community
Admittedly only up to Kirby when I’m commenting this, but I wanted to mention that if any character could free up the “Tutorial” character (allowing Mario and Kirby to be more creatively free), why not let that role be taken up with the Mii Fighters?
Three different characters, three different play styles and tools each uses, giving players a chance to learn different ways, as well as the Special Move gimmick being unique. Also gives the players a chance to literally play as themselves, which could bring a closer feeling to *you* learning.
Furthermore, the three types would inherently lend to teaching about swordies, brawlers, and Samus-like projectile users.
Lowkey they already do that
The only problem is most people that are gonna be new to the game are gonna pick the characters they recognize, they’re probably not gonna pick the miis
I very much don’t think new players are ever going to gravitate towards miis. Especially because they are a gimmick of choosing special moves
because no one wants to play mii characters. every little kid is gonna pick mario and kirby
The only reason I can think of for Bowser Jr. not using the brush more is because of his palette swaps being the Koopalings... But even then, their Final Smashes still use the brush. They could have done some kind of workaround, like replacing the brush with those wands the Koopalings have (which they already do to replace Bowser Jr's hammer).
@@lasercraft32 To be honest, I don't know why a hammer is used instead of his paintbrush. Like I don't need a paint based Jr. moveset, I don't get the hate the clown car sometimes gets but a nice middle ground would be replacing the generic Hammer Bro hammer with the paintbrush and maybe making the wands longer to compensate.
As a wii fit main: WE DON'T NEED MORE RUSHDOWNS 😭
She's a hibrid character, having her rushdown mode being tied to a move instead of being completely baked in (as in pacman, for example).
I do agree she needs changes, but mainly on the recovery side (the rings could honestly work better as a tilt) and making her hitboxes more consistent (but without too many changes though, she's a hilarious character to play already 😂)
I think Steve not being able to build any actual builds isn't that bad when you consider the things he builds look a like lot what pvp players do: just builds that seem nonsensical but are useful to the player. I also don't see how you could make him build a house and have it be useful to the gameplay.
Yes, sonic needs a moveset rework... but the most important thing is that he needs his "You're to slow!" taunt back.
As an avid Splatoon player, I think you're spot on with your reasoning for putting Inkling in the "needs an overhaul" category. You already mentioned the biggest issue being movement and inking the stage. Some hidden Splatoon lore is that Inkling ink evaporates after a while, so that could come into play when it comes to covering the stage in ink.
Another thing I would bring up is that Inkling never punches or kicks in their source game. But they do have melee-like attacks in the form of rollers, brushes and splatanas (which is basically Splatoon's version of a sword). Incorporating those more to replace Inkling's kicks and punches would be better, IMO. It would also make ink management even more important, and ink management is VITAL in Splatoon.
Much less important, I think Inkling should just be called Agent 3 next time, and if there is an Octoling, call them Agent 8. The actual names of the playable characters in the story mode of Splatoon games.
I have a lot of Splatoon opinions. 🙃
I’d say that using the species name for the character is better, and keep the single player character represented with an alt like it is right now with alt 3 wearing the hero suit. Even though every cephaling you see in online matches is an agent, that’s not the case canonically and just the species names are much more recognisable. Those codenames don’t represent every playable character either, since the main inkling of Splatoon 2 is Agent 4 and new Agent 3 can also be an octoling.
Realistically, they probably aren’t going to get an overhaul considering how recently Inkling joined Smash. If anything, whatever new ideas they come up with could go to Octoling as a semi-clone, especially since Splatoon is probably going to get a second distinct character next game.
@Neoxon619 personally, I think the recency of Inkling's inclusion makes it way easier to overhaul their moveset. They've only had a single game to be defined, unlike Mario or Samus. Although I think they could shake it up a little across the board, recency can go to the wind.
@@dysr That’s fair. Though at this point, Agent 3 has worn many distinct outfits. IMO, it would be very cool if you could choose corrupted agent 3 from octo expansion as an alternate skin. That being said, calling it Inkling would make things a lot simpler.
@@Neoxon619 Yeah, I was going with a more ideal scenario rather than a realistic on XD. What I would personally do if I was in charge of updating the move set for inkling.
I think Sora just needs an MP bar - here me out. In KH1, the way to regain your MP, and therefore your access to spells, was to actually land physical damage on your opponent. This encouraged the player to actually interact with enemies instead of camping them out like you can potentially do in later games with MP recharge. This would also carry over into smash; it could work similar to Robin's resource management mechanic, with the tweak that it refreshes once pyshical damage is dealt. This overall would make Sora less campy and more fun.
If they go with the Kh1 route then yeah, but Sora also needs to be able to get Gravity and Stop imo
Why would Sora need an MP bar? Hero already has that and the problems with Sora that Mockrock brought up were due to the over emphasis of his N-air loops. Instead of using a wide variety of attacks like in his games, Sora is reduced to N-air loop the character.
I could see it being useful if he had more magic, but I think that'd just bloat the main idea behind the character design. He should be more versatile than he is, but he should not be so much more complicated, I think.
Yeah, because that worked SO well in making Hero an aggressive character. The last thing we need is MORE characters that require MP management.
@@felixdaniels37 Wouldn't Hero be broken without it?
So hero? Thats just hero.
As a die hard Simon main, i wish he would take more cues from Super Castlevania than Castlevania on the NES. This would allow him to have true 8 way whipping, better air control, and could possibly even introduce the double or triple shot, allowing him better use of his arsenal.
Why do you mean Simon? Do you find him fun? Do you think people have fun when they play you?😢
@TheRantingOne I main Simon because I'm a huge fan of Castlevania and I've been playing them since the early 90s. Simon is my favorite videogame character and I've wanted him in since before Brawl came out. I truly don't care if the person on the other end is having fun. That's on them.
@@mschmalfeldt lol that's such a cruel sounding response, but I think that, as long as a character is well designed, they will be fun to play as and against
@@mschmalfeldtBased. Simon was my first main in Ultimate for similar reasons
@@TheRantingOne They're a low tier bruh. That's on you if you can't beat them.
My idea for fixing Min Min would be to add some way to damage her arms. I haven't played the game in a while, but I recall that there was a mechanic in Arms where your arms could be damaged, which would keep you from attacking and would slow you down. If they added that to Smash in some way, it would force her to actually approach to avoid getting punished by spamming her arm attacks.
I don't think peach having a new game with an expanded moveset makes her feel outdated. Most characters should be general representations of the character as a whole instead of a particular iteration of the character. Some moves from the new game would be cool, but I disagree to say that it's to the point of making her feel outdated
I've never been satisfied with the representation of the Pokemon characters in Smash Bros... Pikachu in particular is super iconic, and yet it doesn't even use Thunderbolt or Iron Tail in its moveset (both moves used regularly by Ash's Pikachu, literally the most iconic Pikachu in existence and the reason its the mascot in the first place). Its uses Thunder _Jolt_ which isn't even a real move (they took it from one of the cards), and for some reason Quick Attack deals electric damage...
I was going to complain about Skull Bash too, since it can't learn it in newer generations, but as it turns out Pikachu can learn it in Gen 1 (and ONLY Gen 1), which is actually a pretty cool detail since it means this Pikachu has been around since the beginning of the series... That said, its weird that Skull Bash ALSO deals electric damage despite being a normal type move (especially dissapointing because that heavy THWACK sound effect would be so satisfying on that move).
And don't even get me STARTED on Lucario... I hate how he was designed in every facet.
electric and fire damage as a whole really needs to be removed or reworked
@@lasercraft32 To be honest I'm not sure how you make Thunderbolt accurate to the source material while also not being annoying (or, significantly more annoying). It would probably have to be a long range projectile considering how it's portrayed and Pikachu does not need one of those. Another idea could be Up Smash but it would feel off for the move Pikachu's associated with to be just an Up Smash. Iron Tail could probably fill that role though. Just take Pikachu's current Up Smash and make it glow (or make it look like Steel like in the Unova anime).
As for Lucario, dear god he is awful. Aura as a mechanic doesn't make sense (not in a Revenge sort of way where I get the idea even if liberties were taken, like they just made something up because Aura doesn't really work like this) but there's only like 3 moves he has which actually feel good to use. If they wanna keep Aura...fine. It's integral to Lucario and I'm not sure how you would adapt the more sensory based game Aura into Smash but I need a new moveset.
You know how Inkling can refill their ink with shield+b? Give more characters a shield+b move, like make that how Pokemon Trainer switches Pokemon, thus opening the Pokemon to have a real down b (Charizard's rock smash)
I think that in order to push Lucas further, he needs to incorporate the rhythm mechanics from his home game. Making some of the multi hits do a bit extra damage if you press the A button in the correct rhythm would push the skill ceiling for tryhards and add more options to them as well
I think if Min Min had more end lag on her ARMS she would work MUCH BETTER than how she plays now.
ARMS is often about bait and punishing where the opponent is going to dash, in Smash Min Min can just throw ram ram and cover almost everything.
10:00 For Fox I just really want a James McCloud alt costume. All they need to do is give him sunglasses, maybe alter the costume color a little bit, and that's all. It's an example of a costume that feels like very little work for a very big payoff.
(I'm not a dev so if this is more work that I make it sound like, chalk that up to ignorance sorry."
As someone who's modded Smash Bros. back in the Brawl days, adding glasses to an alt would not be difficult in the slightest.
Personally, I’d set all of little mac’s aerial angles to low angles. They’d have high base knockback, but low knockback scaling. So instead of being useless, Little Mac’s aerials would set up tech chases
Sora is referencing newer games. His moveset is an extension of his alts. His special moves are present in every game that his alts references. Having KH1 Sora doing 2/3 stuff would feel awkward. Like having OOT Link having BOTW bombs. And KH1 Sora is by far the most iconic version of him.
kh1 being the MOST iconic is definitely somewhat debatable since kh2 is basically the peak of the series and the most popular
@@weluvarii1141 Kh1 Sora's design and Worlds has been reused in a lot of the spinoffs. But ideally they would do Kh2 in S6
I think they should still update it to be more like KH2/3. The style of combat used in KH1 and Smash just doesn’t represent most of the series very well, even though some moves are taken from later games.
Kh2 is the most liked one and set the standard of what kingdom hearts games are combat wise.
Considering how quickly they made the more fast based combat of 2 the template for the future, I absolutely reject the idea of 1 being the more iconic game. It was absolutely fun, but boy was 2 as much of an improved sequel as others consider Megaman 2/3 or Sonic 2/3 to their original games. And the majority of Sora's tech is pretty largely focused on KH1/FM, with his costumes being the main reference to the YEARS of content in sequels.
25:20 MockRock suddenly transforms into Jack Black Minecraft Steve
Why
LOL
"I... am Steve."
I personally dont think jigglypuff needs to be majorly changed in any way.
Like, sure, she doesn't really have too many modern references, but i dont think she's really needing for them.
Most people who enjoy her enjoy her more for her presence in smash than they do in pokemon. In that regard, her smash design kinda usurps her original appearance in terms of which is more iconic.
Her smash design is very distinct. She does things that no other character really does.
Personally, I dont really think references would make her that much better or that changing her design would entirely be for the best.
I'd be fine with adding some things as long as they maintain her core gameplay of 'floaty and annoying'
Which is exactly what a balloon pokemon ought to be.
Im also not really as set on references.
I'm fine if they make things up as long as they still feel like things the characters would do.
I mean, some characters do benefit more from references than others, but not jigglypuff as she doesn't exactly have an iconic pokemon moveset that people want to see.
Or really any real presence in Pokémon at all.
If you ask me, I'd literally just swap out roll out for dazzling gleam and maybe add some sparkly effects to some of her moves, and that would literally be it.
Honestly this.
@@guythatdosethingssometimes2651 I totally agree. I'm just not a fan of how her problems were described. Above all else, Puff is a balloon. Of course she's gonna be floaty and focus on the air while also getting killed at like 60. It's the same logic I use for well made zoners. Don't enjoy fighting them but they're doing what they're supposed to. The only move I need gone is Rollout and I would probably replace it Disarming Voice to play a little more into the singing along with the Fairy typing. Other than that, on a rare occasion I can work without Pound and her Smash attacks have always been a little bland, but other than that I say she's more than fine. Hell, I'd even keep Puff Up.
@castform7 I'm fine with overhauling most of her smash attacks and some of her grounded normals.
It's not like they're really a priority to begin with.
But I'd need some convincing in terms of swapping out most of her air based moves or pound.
Pound has a very particular role in terms of puffs kit, so I don't really take the idea of replacing it lightly.
And obviously rest stays.
If anyone says otherwise, I will immediately disregard their opinions on the character.
I overall agree. But if they give her a fairy attack I just want it to fit with her kit. Don't just add it for the sake of it.
@@guythatdosethingssometimes2651 Her Smash attacks are barely ever relevant so I would take at least Down Smash and Up Smash being changed. Her aerials get no critique and there's a reason I said Pound goes on a rare occasion since it's so intertwined with how she works.
And of course Rest stays. It doesn't work like it does in Pokemon but this is a massive exception due to how recognizable it is. If Puff doesn't have rest, it's not Puff.
While I do also tend to lean more into the "if you have a reference, you should use it" camp, I don't think "this new game gives this character a bunch of new abilities, therefore those new abilities should be in Smash" is a valid line of logic because, even if you disregard that most abilities and game mechanics are exclusive to one game (or a few at most), not everything works specifically for Smash. As a massive Sonic fan, I do agree that his moveset needs retooling, but I also don't think a bulk of that should come from Frontiers. In my eyes, the statements "the most recent game represented in Mario's moveset came out in 2002 and that should probably be fixed" and "F.L.U.D.D. is a unique idea that should be kept in Mario's moveset" are not mutually exclusive, and can both be true.
1:15:01
I think one of the big reasons Min Min needs a major overhaul is just because she has 8 moves that are literally or effectively the exact same move. If you trimmed the extended punch to just being neutral special, with the additional A input for the second arm, and made everything else (held jab, FTilt, FSmash, held NAir, FAir, BAir, Side special) either a different move or removed in the held variant cases, she would be a better character just by having more things she can actually do.
And no amount of saying “ohhh it’s made to make her feel like playing ARMS” will change my opinion that she was made like that entirely because she was developed during the first months of Covid lockdowns and the difficult adjustment to remote working. We all know Sonic’s moveset got screwed over in Brawl by difficult conditions, leading to all of the repeated ball moves, this is definitely the same situation.
As someone who actually loved ARMS and wanted Min Min specifically in the game before Ultimate even dropped, I want to see her completely overhauled.
this video made me realize something about how I perceive smash characters: I care about the actual mechanics and overall design direction of characters a lot more than how well they represent their home games. when you started talking about how marth has slowly been pushed out of his role as the game's basic bitch fundies swordie in favor of lucina and how they had to emphasize his tippers to the point of becoming gimmicky in the process, I found that part absolutely fascinating... and then you got to young link and ganon and went on about how the zelda rep in smash is stinky and my eyes started glazing over. not saying you're doing anything wrong with your content, that's just what I've realized in the first 26 minutes and 59 seconds of this vid
edit: just finished the video, feel mostly the same. I still think the focus on home series representation shuts down more of the interesting mechanical and game design discussion and also makes some of the tier placements for characters you otherwise like the direction of look more negative than I think you intended
Videos like these are kind of annoying to sit through because they tend to miss the fact that these characters are supposed to be believable above all else. Sure, some references here and there are cool. But having entire movesets be composed of references and callbacks falls into the NASB issue of characters feeling more like Flanderized, obnoxious parodies, rather than the actual character.
I think you can have characters having cohesive movesets while also actually feeling like you’re playing the character, Ganondorf barely even feels like himself and even if you want to argue that his moveset is cohesive he is still dogshit anyways so why can’t he get more stuff from the source material? As long as it fits with the rest of the moveset and makes him more unique I think both things can coexist, especially since smash is a crossover game and not just an original fighting game with ocs
@@felixdaniels37 Agreed, that's a great way to put it. Now, the N64 characters definitely need more modern movesets, as it's a lot of kicking and basic punches. But I care about if the character's personality and mechanical design shine through in their toolkit, more than finding a reference for every move. "Flanderized parodies" is a good description of that extreme.
How is it that Icies being touch of death is okay because of "defined weaknesses" when Luigi too has a clear weakness in his extremely exploitable recovery? Yes, Luigi also has more games and inspiration he can pull from, but I frankly find this to be a strange take, considering Smash characters don't NEED inspiration to come from home games (otherwise Icies wouldn't even be playable).
Bc the Icies weaknesses are directly related to how it’s hard to get the touch of deaths
Luigi’s only weakness doesn’t impact how hard it is for him to get a grab
I honestly think Jigglypuff perfect as is, she’s an anti-meta character who adds so much flavor to the game because of her strange playstyle. I think modernizing her would take away her flavor, and there’s nobody else who plays like her in the slightest
She just needs Moonblast or Dazzling Gleam as her Final Smash and she's golden
If Mario's gonna have the same moves at least give them better synergy so he doesn't come off as "uair the character."
Please. Please change Samus. Make her a cool brawling bounty hunter with a variety of tools, not a generic spammer.
Give her Zero Mission/Fusion physics not Super Metroid
@@theimpersonator7086 if a fighting game played like metroid dread pvp i'd have no choice but to only play that game for 20 years
@@internetguy7319"I'd have no choice" got me a giggle lol
We have Dread to pull from now. Snappy, kinetic, sharp movements. Make her a hybrid zoner. Wants to be away but have her close range be weaker but wicked fast and the counter to snap away people with a tangible reward but a long recovery. Make using it feel like when you get caught by a emmi. Get it right or suffer.
It’s been said a million times before, and will be said a million more. Just give Black Shadow from F-Zero most of Ganon’s moves and then you can rework him. Everyone wins:
1. Zelda fans get a better representation from their main antagonist.
2. F-Zero fans get a new rep.
3. All of us that love to play as Ganon will still be able to, just on another character with a similar enough personality
For Dedede specifically, I think the main thing that kinda caused him to veer into the heavy ledgetrap emphasis was them overnerfing him after Brawl. I agree with their decision to entirely change dair, Brawl dair would be way too good of a disadvantage tool if they kept it the same, especially now with the reduced landing lag, but they could've at least kept Brawl bair (with a bit less ludicrous power) and he would have a fine enough keep-away neutral with some grappler aspects to him. He already has a combo throw, so if you just give him a button he can use more willingly in neutral he becomes a lot more free-form and less of a specialist. They added the grab-lockout timer and just additionally nerfed characters who could chain grab's throws way too much.
The worst part of this video is knowing that characters like Sonic and Diddy Kong are very likely to be the exact same.
It took them *three* games to just give Ganondorf a sword and 'slightly' declone him from Captain Falcon. That and the amount of times that characters movesets have been remade from the ground up has happened very few times, only things I can think of are Dedede from Brawl to Smash 4, Smash 4 Roy, Falco kind of, but that's almost it.
Also nah you're completely dead on about Diddy Kong, loathe how he plays and fights in every smash game.
And also Bowser from Brawl to Smash 4
The momentum speed increase alone is huge (the biggest in Smash history), and that’s without getting into his changed normals
1:22:57 "simple and clean" Was that phrase intentional?
I remember a lot of people back during Ultimate’s speculation days wanting a “Mii Archer” or “Mii Mage” type, but both of those are just Mii zoners like Gunner. However, taking several of Swordfighters current moves and giving them to a Mii Archer and then making Swordfighter more like Marth could be a great compromise
As long as K. Rool stays. I'll be happy with Smash 6, he's my favorite design out of all the newcomers of base Ultimate, and I don't even mind his animalistic voice. References and animations galore, he plays like K. Rool which I can't say for other outdated veterans that deserve a fraction of this level of care.
I just wish his drawbacks in his design for balancing were a bit less penalizing, some of them like crown as an item went a little too overboard imo.
Also while I don't hate his alts, I wish they were more than just palette swaps, he has at least four possible costumes that would be perfect if we got half and half, which Smash should do more of imo, except for characters with alt skins that make sense like for Bowser Jr.
Also the Ganondorf tier is literally perfect, I honestly call him the most shafted character of Smash, more than Sonic, he has next to nothing original when there's a lot to pull from. Sonic at least has a big one (while overcentralizing) and isn't a 21 year old carbon copy of another character in comparison.
i think most people hope k rool stays, he's practically become the fan-favorite superheavyweight, and they do have a good reason to like him. they did so well on him in terms of sounds, moves and animation. everything, basically.
i do agree with that last part though.
I agree with your stance on Mario being outdated. Mario in Smash 64 was meant to reference the Mario games at the time, being Mario 64, Mario Bros, Mario World, etc. By that philosophy, the references should be updated
varietychan they were updated cappy is an odessey reference and 3d all stars is a collection of the older 3d games and that came out after ultimate. Also nostalgia baiting is a thing and Nintendo loves doing that
I wish they gave characters like link DLC privilege. They got so much to pull from even if they had twilight princess link back or midna and wolf link as one character. Steve sephiroth Sora sonic kind of expanded on the possible creativity they could add to the game as far as making characters win with abilities as opposed to just kicking you around a lot.
I feel as though Mario and Kirby dont have to be the most simple characters for beginners. The Mii are right there and could fufill that niche. The fact that they are customizable means that a beginner can pick any moveset they're comfortable with.
Furthermore, even more than teaching the basics and the basics of a more interesting character, in fighting games there are basics of archetypes. The Miis, already being archetypal swordies, brawlers, and Samus-styled shooting projectile zoners, would ease even more people into understanding the fundamentals of Smash as a platform fighter game.
If we have to wait longer for Smash 6 compared to Ultimate because of major character changes, I would be fine with that.
I personally still think Link should be the standard one doing all the standard Link things, because no matter how much you slice it, the point of the character is to be the standard Link. He's not like Toon Link or Young Link, who have specific games to pull from. He's supposed to be the Link that changes through every Smash title. I'm cool with him getting more changes (those kicks do need to go), but changing him drastically and modernizing him would kinda miss the point of his character in Smash.
I love how MockRock spends over an hour of talking to make this and Sakurai will see this and give them a slightly different move at best and change nothing else
so true
Isn't Sakurai done with the series after ultimate? I'm moreso concerned with the direction whoever gets put on the series now will go
@@noathern he never said that, if anything he might take a break unless he does what he did after smash 4 and start on the next entry as soon as the final update was released
@@noathern he's said that multiple times so i feel like it's kind of up in the air. iirc he's been on a 3 year hiatus from game dev so if smash has already started dev someone else would be directing?
@@luciatheorphan If someone else were to direct, would they lean the game towards casual or competitive?
35:38 I love all the Lucas glazing here
@@Jayquinator-X You must be one of the fabled 5 Lucas mains.
@@castform7 I am
In terms of Min Min, perhaps the solution is to go the opposite route of adapting fighting game characters to Smash: Rather than bring the fighting game to Smash 1:1, make a regular Smash character with some inspirations from the source material. Twintelle could be a great way to do this since she has her normal limbs & is canonically a body-builder.
I do honestly think Twintelle would've been a better pick but Min Min was a personal request from ARMS' director, what can you do 🤷
I think having the ARMS fighter be a character to not use their arms to be a stupid idea. I love Twintelle but she’s a bad representative of that game.
@MockRockTalk from what i can tell most of the arms fan base was hoping for twintelle as well
I'd have liked ribbon girl personally the extra jumps and the dive bomb would've been great
Also in ARMS, the whole mechanic of Twintelle is that she can hover and slow her opponents.
So she'd be Min Min, but with Peach float and Witch Time and with even more annoying normals since Twintelle's default ARMS are more gimmicky than Min Min's
@@noathern Min Min is the overall most popular ARMS character globally. Twintelle is in 2nd place primarily because Japan doesn’t really like her that much (Ninjara is #2 over there), but NA & EU mostly made up the difference. Min Min just had more consistent love everywhere.
I heavily disagree with the sentiment towards Pikmin latching, I think it is too much a core of the Pikmin series to just trash it entirely. Change the specifics of how the move works sure but I don't think you should ever change that.
That being said I think leaning Olimar in a more puppet direction would be the way to go, my idea was swap neutral special and down special and turn the neutral special into a command whistle. Make it where you can throw or set down Pikmin at different parts of the screen then press the special button + direction (similar to monado wheel) to command Pikmin to attack in that direction. Oh of course I'd also make all his smash attacks have new animations with more personality in them and change his grab animation to have Olimar motion a grab with his own hands to better visualize the action. I'd change more mostly on the aesthetic end but I think putting him in "Burn it to the Ground" is way too harsh for literally one or two problems that can be easily changed
I’m extremely biased when I say this, but Banjo-Kazooie are the ones I want a redesign the most on. They were my most wanted character that got into Ultimate and while I love the animations and references, I HATE how they play. I think they relied way too much on projectiles for designing his moveset. I’d prefer a “Monado arts” of sorts with Mumbo Jumbo transformations that replaces his projectiles, so that way they are more aggressive and in your face rather than campy. Kind of like what they did with Wonderwing where it’s explosive but not unbeatable. But again, I’m extremely biased with my pick
if you ever need a xenoblade brain rot specialist for pyra mythra and shulk changes ideas im your guy.
starting with Shulk I generaly like the interpretation they took with the monado arts. In game they are actually for the most part they are a mix of buffs and just regular attacks, but I think instead making them all buffs kinda plays in xenoblade 1's MMO inspirations for its combat. In general the one main change I would love to see with shulk though is 2 fold. First off Shulk actually is kinda part of a support character in xenoblade 1 with a healing art and some party buffs and by the time of xenoblade 3 has this sorta dodge tank role. with that in mind I want to maybe tone down specifically monado speed and just give him a bit more general speed to compensate which goes hand and hand with my other change. I want shulk to have to think about his positioning more, Xenoblade and especially Shulk revolves alot on where you are in relation to enemy and you see that sorta with back slash but I think if they toned down his normal swing speed a bit but gave him more rewarding but more awkward angles for some moves, where you would have to almost "see into the future" to find a place where they would hit, It would give him a bigger focus on him having to care about where he is in relation to his enemy and have to make use of percise angles to maximize strength.
Now Pyra and Mythra are kinda alot harder because you really dont control them for the most part. In 2's dlc you can use mythra in battle and all her attacks you can use there are represented in her specials, though I think for Photon edge they should use like a golden holographic looking outline of mythra (taken from how foresight is shown in cutscenes) in the center of it and have that be a universal hitbox for her during that move because that would make it alot more clear on what the counter play is. one thing thats kinda funny from being a huge fan of xenoblade 2 is that Pyra is kinda weak, like any challenge run of xenoblade 2 you will never see her. Like i said you never control Pyra in xenoblade 2 but even still it feels weird for Pyra to be like the killing one given that in Lore she was essentially made to be a limiter on Mythra so that Mythra wouldnt just lead to the death of hundreds of people. If I had it Ideally I kinda wish pyra was reworked to kinda be a bit more of a passive playstile, maybe using her fire to instead expand the hit boxes and being more focused around using Blazing end to keep people away from her. Kinda mirroring her more passive supportive and kinder persona to Mythras much more aggressive one. but i feel like that wouldnt be very popular and probably be worse than mythra though its not like pyra is used a ton already, I actually think Pyra should have a much better recovery than mythra at the very least because then maybe by making Mythra less extreme and strong, the aegis can be played more like a tempo character where you use Mythra when you need to be aggressive while you use Pyra when you need to be defensive
All I want out of Sora is for counter to send projectiles back to sender. It does that in KH so I don't know why it doesn't in Smash.
I'd love reflect over the counter,.works the exact same way after all.
I think DK should be a momentum based heavy hottake.
( His dash attack allows him to go off stage and is a better burst option )
One thing I’m surprised wasn’t mentioned was Mega Man’s Charge Shot. I think it’d be cool to bake it into his jab
I think it would be cool to work it in like they did in the MvC games; you should hold down A in order to start charging the shot, and you can move around while doing so.
They represented it with his Forward Smash attack. I realize that it doesn't replicate how Mega Man uses it in-game, but running and charging doesn't fit the implicit 'rules' of Smash. I think a projectile Smash attack is very unique, and it keeps his Specials open for other parts of his movekit.
@@jonathanlgill That is a fair point, though I was thinking that the charge shot would be a separate move from the forward smash and it would be far weaker than his current one. We can still replace the forward smash with another projectile. But hey, agree to disagree I guess.
@@GoodWitchKirby Could be the Neutral B, and if doing that give it to Samus too..made no sense she roots to charge when that was never the case ever. I know for balance giving it's power but still.
Peach's potential new moveset actually excites me.
Which I cannot say that for any of her other incarnations.
As a longtime Sonic fan, I 100% agree.
He barely feels like Sonic.
With Sonic Battle on the Game Boy as a reference, he could a great character and I'd genuinely love to play him.
I'm SHOCKED they didn't pull more from sonic battle.
47:55 Hydropump should just be called Aqua Jet.
Aqua Jet is a physical attack though, whereas this move is a spray of water.
Honestly, I don’t understand why it’s not just Water Gun. It has the same properties as Squirtle’s, and if they worried about double dipping… uh, Squirtle already uses Hydro Pump too so
@@dc_dachi when does squirtle use hydro pump? final smash?
@@dc_dachito have it be named different can call it water pulse
@@EnndoriiYeah, Squirtle is using Hydro Pump during Triple Finish.
@@dc_dachi I see the point, but I don’t think it’s the biggest deal if the moves that overlap are a final smash and a move in their standard moveset
I always thought of the idea of having pichu and pikachu fuse, add richu and have the character evolve over the coure of the match. It represents a huge part of pokemon and lets pichu stay in smash 6 which aint exactly likely otherwise.
I've heard evolution mechanics proposed for Pokemon and I'm kind of torn on it. It sounds forced, but could also potentially be really cool. Honestly seems more like a Digimon idea than anything lol
So basically you’re playing Pokémon unite in smash
In terms of ones I feel strongly about.
Hero can stay mostly the same. He's super unique and totally represents the genre his series helped pioneer. I wouldn't hate if his crits got removed and you toned down some of the crazier stuff for better normals, but the idea of a swordie with mediocre normals and great specials should stay imo.
Samus is cool but I think she definitely could use some reworks. Her missles and charge shot don't really fit how they work in Metroid, and although her movement does feel similar to prime/super, as the main titles have gone on she's become more and more speedy. A samus with worse projectiles and better mobility and aggression would be cool imo. Add the melee counter, ice beam, some sort of speed boost, etc and she'd be awesome.
Ridley definitely does have some great and fitting aspects to him. He feels menacing, scary, and controlling. But some of his moves are either really bad (down b, some of his throws), or look a bit lame to me (bair, fair) or both (dair). I do enjoy his tradeoff where he loses the typical heavy weight for a more speedy ranged big body design, but some of his moves could use some adjustments imo.
All my opinion, and I love these 3 characters, but I figured it was worth sharing. Looking forward to watching the video!
For Hero, the main thing I want to see is just make better UI. Spells should have symbols, MP cost should be allowed to be viewed regardless of whether the Hero player is on the Spell, and ideally color coding.
I don't really think inkling should lean more into zoner territory. Yes they come from a shooter but it's a really fast paced, aggressive shooter. I think playing inkling should feel more like playing ttek than playing range blaster.
i agree that Kirby should have an overhaul, but most of his moves are actually referencing past abilities, typically Throw, Suplex, and Fighter. I think if he got access to more weapon based abilities, he'd be an extremely obnoxious character, but there's lots of other abilities to pull from like Ice, Needle and Parasol.
edit : I also feel like Marth being more "cheap" now can be attributed to the insane skill and strength Fire Emblem lords have now in game. I like how he still feels like the most threatening FE character.
I’d like them to keep jiggly puffs core ideas but change some moves that all her to pressure swords so that she doesn’t have to camp as much, giving her a tool to land would also mitigate her air camping because you still want to get back down. Having an attack that helps would speed things up
Part of your argument for changing Link is that the other two Links can do the simple old Link stuff, but then with both Young Link and Toon Link, you want them to be changed as well.
Yeah, not a fan of turning Young Link into Majora's Mask Link. Transformation masks admittedly could be really cool, but there have been so many Links that are boys, including the very first game. If anything he's the 'classic' Link while adult Link can represent the new open-world incarnations of the character.
I think Lucas takes a lot of unintentional advantages. Z-air combos uses some unique features of his double jump and the way physics works in smash. Up smash cancel lets him gain momentary invincibility, although it is very precise. I do love the idea of having Lucas going back and having the footstool combos. I think Lucas is a good character, he is just buried underneath other characters with cooler, or easier mechanics.
The only way I could realistically see them change the veteran cast would be if they completely rebooted the series... And especially it would likely only happen if Sakurai wasn't the head honcho in charge of everything (I know that sounds like sacrilege, but the guy's getting old, and has expressed many times that he doesn't really like having to come back and make sequels all the time, I'd love to see someone talented take over for him, like what happened with the Kirby series).
Sakurai just has that kind of philosophy of not changing veteran movesets for fear of alienating the people who used to play as them... Its an understandable concern, but honestly I'd rather have to relearn the character than have Mario stuck with the same moveset he's had for 25 years. Its always really bothered me how unfaithful a lot of the characters end up being (cough Ganondorf cough) and I would like that to change.
50:50 Popo finally finding out how king Sisyphus felt endlessly pushing a boulder up a hill
Kirby NEEDS to be updated. Giving him more variety with this canon abilities wouldn't overly complicate him; I mean, are beginners having a hard time playing Kirby games with full copy move sets? At the very least, all current copy specials need to be swapped, and he needs a projectile. Why doesn't the beginner character have a projectile? Not only would it be helpful, but it's canon.
Melee style wave dashing should be added to fox only in the next smash game, just as an homage to the game that made smash what it is today.
mario's the smash character whose representation pisses me off the most, i think. he doesn't even have a ground pound. that move he's had since before the first smash game and in almost every mario game since
Why does everyone say Mario needs a ground pound. It doesn't add anything to his moveset
you sound like a bitch. the ground pound is so mario, it makes no sense that it's not there in the first place. like that's mario. mario does ground pounds. he does it in the mario movie, even. plus it's not like mario couldn't use a stall n fall. fuck off
@@blocks4857 you can't be coming in here saying the dumbest shit ever. like what does that even matter, even if that was the case? like what does bowser's down b add to his moveset, he already has a stall n fall with dair by your logic, he doesn't need it and it shouldn't be in the game. mario can use a stall n fall, it's not redundant or useless on him, you don't know shit.
and like, on top of that, you're saying that about the GROUND POUND. it's such an iconic mario move, it's in like, 80% of all his games since mario 64, and it feels real cool. you're lame as shit if you think all that matters is if it fits into his moveset, which it does btw
@@blocks4857 Yeah it honestly doesn't sound very fun to use.
@@blocks4857 Plus stall and falls are usually not very fun. Like, when was the last time you've seen a Yoshi Ground Pound. Mario's tool kit doesn't seem like it would mesh well with Ground Pound.
As a fan of the Splatoon series and an ex-Inkling main, you nailed my thoughts on the character perfectly. (Also, I main Etalus in Rivals, so that probably also contributes)
I was really hyped for Inkling. And after playing them for a while, I didn't just want to play a back air machine. So I played Cloud instead...
@@ShallBePurified So you swapped to another bair machine? 😂 jk. Same story here, but I switched to Link (then later Rosa)
I've always hated how blatantly Heavyweight they made Dedede... Like, he's a KIRBY CHARACTER who can literally suck in air to float like a balloon. WHY does he feel like a rock? Sakurai _created_ the character but somehow managed to make it not feel like the same character.
To be fair, he is pretty solidly a heavyweight character in the Kirby series too. His boss fights tend to be about avoiding and then punishing slow moves that are big and hit hard (as opposed to, say, Meta Knight who’s about spacing around the similar range of both sides and then finding openings to hit him between his fast attacks due to how he blocks attacks when idle). Dedede is often the largest playable character with the most health (only really beaten by Susie’s Business Suit and Kirby’s Robobot Armour, which are also optional mechs that limit aerial mobility). His playable moveset is based on hammer, the typical slow but powerful ability, and usually shares the worst aerial mobility in the game with Kirby due to his need to puff up for flight.
@@dysr He's slower than the other characters in the Kirby series, yes, but he still has a floatier jump and doesn't sink like a rock every time he leaves the ground.
@@lasercraft32 I personally don't know why they made him edge guard centric. I wouldn't expressly call that a negative but it doesn't...feel right. I also don't know why they made Dedede such a cinder block. Like he's still slow in the air but he isn't getting no air time when he floats. I like Dedede in Smash but some stuff does feel a bit off.
For Ganondorf, I have a bit of a hot take.
Since Sakurai *refuses* to add more Zelda characters other than various versions of existing Zelda Characters, then he should just have two versions of Ganondorf: TotK and OG Beast Ganon, inspired by Echoes of Wisdom Ganon
Have TotK Ganondorf use the new moveset, with his multiple weapons, two forms, and Gloom for his kit, as well as attacks from his human forms throughout the series.
Then have Beast Ganon combine the iconic Smash Ultimate Ganondorf moves (F smash, Up smash, Flame Choke, Dair) with his Trident of Power, the electricity ball, and maybe even the flame bats.
That way human Ganondorf gets updated with a new moveset while current Smash fans get to keep the iconic moveset of Ultimate Ganondorf with Beast Ganon
Personally? I would rather one of those to be Windwaker Gannondorf.
It might be a little too much to ask for... But I really wish each of the Miis had three alternate playstyles. The standard style (the current design), the heavyweight style, and a lightweight style.
They had a size feature in Smash 4, but all it did was effect your weight and I think movement speed without altering any of the actual hitboxes (leading to them being very off-balance).
For a long while, I've been really wanting freely customizable moves for the Miis, but your idea sounds like it would work so much better. Not only would there be the potential for more distinct movesets, you wouldn't have to restrict the Miis so much to their current silhouette, but you wouldn't need to somehow have different attacks from the same body with differing functions that are still somehow balanced between each other when mixed in a blender.
With Bowser. Just update his voice to sound like he does in every other game ever. Moveset is fine, just make him sound like Bowser.
Also. Bring back Brawl Ike's sound design
@@liv9520Agreed. I want my forward airs to sound like mom smashing a bus into my opponent again.
Smash 6 should axe the majority of the FE roster. It really only needs Marth, Ike, Robin, Corrin and Alear since they are all very distinct fighters and can show off the weapons and abilities in their respective games.
Ike and Robin in particular could use a substantial update so they aren't incredibly slow. Also just give Ike his Ragnell projectile instead of the crappy eruption attack he's had all this time.
I'd like an axe user too like say Hector. And maybe a lance user. It's wild to me that the weapon triangle, one of the major things of the series is never fully represented.
While I agree that Smash's take on Steve doesn't do the best job at conveying the wildly creative and imaginative building that Minecraft encourages, I also don't think it's fair to expect Smash to translate building in this way. Rather, I actually think that Smash does an excellent job at encouraging Steve players to use blocks in a very similar fashion to how Minecraft players in competitive environments would use blocks (mainly PvP combat and Speed running). Building a house is probably the last thing that a Minecraft PvP Pro or Speedrunner has on their mind, and instead player's tend to place blocks quite sporadically as a way to enhance a their own ability to traverse terrain, create on-the-fly defences, create traps or to simply disrupt opposing players or mobs, all of which are things that blocks in Smash can accomplish as well. The plethora of way's Steve's kit interacts with blocks still encourages creativity in some way or another regardless.
Richter being lumped with Daisy and Dark Samus feels wrong if you consider release order/what character can actually do what. Simon feels like the clone but also not because they both just feel similar to actual castilevania to an extent, I dunno. Those two always felt like the exception of "total clone" characters. I havent touched Smash Ult in years tho and have engaged with these videos, im more than happy to discuss if what im saying/my view makes sense or not.
I don’t see a good reason for the two to be echoes rather than just alts like Hero if they’re just going to be identical mechanically. The different element of their holy water doesn’t matter in the majority of matchups, and doesn’t matter in an interesting way for the matchups where it does come up. Every aesthetic difference other than the number of costumes already exists between the alts of another fighter (Cloud even has a slight mechanical difference between his two final smashes, although Byleth’s differences in their up taunt isn’t nearly as drastic with hurtbox shifting as the Belmonts’ and Pokémon Trainers’ doesn’t have an effect on gameplay), and their alternate colours aren’t so good that removing half is a big deal. That way, maybe they could even add another Belmont like Julius too (although he doesn’t have the Belmont walk so Trevor is probably a better option).
There’s plenty of ways to differentiate the two mechanically. Even something as simple as buffing the moves that each character originated (MockRock mentioned this too in his buffs and nerfs videos) like Richter having stronger martial arts would be an interesting difference that incentivises them to use “their” moves more. A more drastic approach would be to add Maria as a swap character for Richer, and then retool his kit accordingly (e.g. replace Cross with Bible as to not overlap with Maria’s Dragon as a long range horizontal projectile).
Only complete clone that really makes sense is Dark Samus for her general role is to be a copy of Samus, and even then there could be movement differences.
@@iantaakalla8180 Dark Samus isn’t a very close copy of Samus, that’s more the shtick of the SA-X. Its boss fights involve plenty of attacks that Samus never uses, it’s able to float whereas Samus jumps to stay in the air, and can also pull from the Metroid Prime boss fight. It’s not like Dark Pit or Octolings who have the same physical traits and can use the same weapons but have different personalities.
If they're going to be identical fighters then they should just be alt skins like Olimar and Alph imo, but given how differently they play in their base games, they shouldn't be clones at all, so I definitely hope that one or both of them get reworked with distinct movesets.
*Mock, after having 15+ tiers and changing the names of several repeatedly throughout the video to the point of making them hopelessly vague:* You know what? New Tier
I’ve never cared for kucario but talking about reworking his moveset gave me some really cool ideas just now
Please rework Ridley he just doesn’t feel like Ridley for the most part
Where’s the flying
Where’s the ruthlessness
Where’s the cunning personality
Where’s Metroid Ridley
Furthermore, Ridley’s supposed behavior is calculated cruelty as shown in Metroid mangas. Maybe he should have moves that lend themselves well to 50/50s because he knows they will hit hard but he also knows you don’t always go for the kill and he wants a sadistic game?
@@iantaakalla8180 Ah but right now he does try to put you in 50/50 scenarios such as up tilt not truly comboing but providing a 50/50 or skewer providing a 50/50
However the problem is you never see ridleys hit these moves often because there hitboxes are so small which brings me to the next point
Ridley needs more range
the only “clone” characters that i would want to be in smash 6 (obviously different but still) are luigi, paper mario, and daisy. all of those characters have resemblance to existing core characters (luigi being a quintessential smash character already) but still have a LOT of potential
Love it. Leave Doc’s game alone give him Mario’s double jump. Rework Mario.
For Lucas, give him his down throw combos back while nerfing forward throw. F throw is nice but it's not as consistent at killing like up or back throw. as long as f throw can still set up for edge guards, I'm fine with it getting nerfed.
1:06:02 when you said this I misunderstood what you meant and thought you were taking the funniest jab at this character by saying he always misses
I personally would change Lucario in two ways. His set should using be his bone staff more. It's pretty much how we see him a majority or the time, and it is unique to him. His aura should be nerfed just a bit, but in trade, he gets a second staff , which would give him greater combo potential (think some drags down and stuff) but also slows him down as well. I think that way that would make him feel better since him slowing down means his combos don't get too crazy and easier to kill but him getting two staffs would make him more of a threat since if he does get you in a combo with high aura he has a higher chance of killing you.
I disagree with your Dedede take. Think not only should his little guys be random, he should have even MORE random characters including the broom guy that would do no damage. He is a very silly incompetent ruler and I think random items are some of the coolest things in fighting game
The second I clicked on the video I was praying that there would be a Ganondorf tier just for Ganondorf and I'm so happy it showed up
Honestly we need a GET OUT! Tier for the mf's who are just unsalvagable
This tier would be almost exclusively for Min Min, ya love to see it
Sonic and Min Min. Get out.
I believe Sonic can be saved tho, giving there is just so much more they could pull from.
I mean, he has sonic wind, the various moves from Sonic Battle, Frontiers now. You can do so much with Sonic that I have no idea why they made him "Ball the character".
Snake is an easy one. Give him his damn tranq gun. If Joker can get a special literally called GUN then yeah
As a Baoynetta main I'm overall happy with her kit. As far as representation goes I think they did quite well with her in ultimate. for balancing I would like some of her moves to kill better that or make witch time work more reliably getting stuck trying to find a kill at 190% is not fun.
1:22:54 - “Simple, and clean,…” I see what you did there Mr. Krock
You might be my favourite, if not, definitely in the top 5, TH-camrs on TH-cam. The way you analyze each aspect of smash bros and home series is so entertaining. Most TH-camrs I just watch while doing stuff on the side, but I tend to watch your stuff with that stuff off. Love your stuff!
If Sheik was introduced in Ultimate, they’d be Impa. They’d just fill the character slot with one of the Impas.
-The biggest missed opportunity is that Corrin has an awesome chainsaw sword and only uses the chainsaw part for ONE attack (and its not even a normal attack, its just when charging forward smash)
-I really like your ideas for Inkling. Inking the stage is like, THE mechanic that makes Splatoon unique from other shooters. And in the game, being able to increase your own movement is a lot more important than penalizing the opponents.
Also, I was literally going to suggest this video topic on your next video