Frank Zappa: Black Page #1 & #2 (with embedded score) REACTION | The Daily Doug (Episode 366)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
- #FrankZappa #BlackPage #FrankZappaReaction
In this edition of #TheDailyDoug, I'm listening to The Black Page by Frank Zappa. Many have been asking me to review this piece for months, and today's the day! We dive into both The Black Page #1 and #2, with the aid of a score. It's a great mid-week #WeirdWednesday kind of vibe today!
Reference Video: • The Black Page #1 // F...
Reference Video: • Frank Zappa - The Blac...
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Two interesting facts about this composition:
Frank wrote this to challenge Terry Bozzio, and after a couple of weeks of practicing it, Bozzio played it for Frank and he replied, "Bozzio, you're a fucking genius!"
Upon hearing this when it was released, Berklee student and Zappa fan, Steve Vai, transcribed The Black Page and mailed it to Frank, along with a cassette of his guitar playing. He transcribed this from listening to it on the record to prove to Frank that he could read music.
Frank contacted Vai and told him to get his butt up to LA and audition for the band.
Vai was too young for the road, so Frank hired him to transcribe his solos for a couple of years. That became The Frank Zappa Guitar Book.
Two years later, Zappa took the 20-year-old Vai on the road and, sure enough, young inexperienced Stevie got dehydrated, fatigued and had a particularly interesting encounter with a groupie that turned into the song Stevie's Spanking. It all started with transcribing The Black Page.
As the great Johnny Carson used to say "I did not know that"!
Far out
Great anecdote.
How can someone that is so musically deranged even think that they could curtail Zappa's music. This joke of a man should find another line of work like cleaning up or something of that nature. Give it up you stupid so called expert.
That's awesome.
So I have an interesting Zappa story to tell. 42-ish years ago I was pre-school age, and my older brother was in high school and big Zappa fan. For an art class project, he make a life sized Frank Zappa stuffed doll. I remember seeing pictures of me sitting on a couch with it next to me posed. After that year, at the end of a Zappa concert he went to, he threw it on stage and Frank held it up as expected.
So life goes on, and my brother now teaches rock history classes at college, including a Zappa appreciation class. In doing so he met band members, and even had a trip out to "the vault". While there he told that whole story of the doll, totally assuming that right after the concert the doll was tossed away or some such, as you'd expect. Some time later, he was contacted by someone "you know that doll you talked about? Well it's still here actually".
They had changed the clothes on it, but otherwise yes Frank had kept the doll in his vault that whole time. I could tell how much that meant to my brother, to know his idol kept his creation like that. I've always like Zappa's music, but that made me like him all the more.
my best friend was in that zappa class and told me all about the professor including that story of the doll!!!! so insane to run into this comment!
Cool story.
Great story! Now, how can I attend - or view - your brother's class?! I'm interested in all things Zappa!
@@chikkipop it’s a class at IU bloomington
@@simonh.3343 Any recordings of the classes? I've actually watched many college lectures online.
I think now you get why "I have played in Frank Zappa's band" is such a badge of honor. Not because of the association with the name, but the skill it represents.
Doug: "This is not easy!"
Frank from somewhere: "I know..."
😄
Saw Frank play I think about 4 or 5 times you know Neverr a bad show
His son dweasel is an awesome musician of his own right Is scene Him About 20 times They do perform the black page Along with many others that are very very difficult to play but a lot of fun
@@kevengreene317 I’ve seen Dweezil a few times with Zappa Plays Zappa. It’s a shame the way the family won’t let him perform with that name anymore or sell merchandise with the name.
@@jigilous agreed, I try to see Dweezil whenever he happens to come around where I live, and he never lets us down. It is a shame how the Zappa family has fragmented after Gail's passing. It really makes me sad.
@@jigilous I was supposed to go see him, but COVID came and that was scrapped. :/
Honestly I don't mind you singing along as you sight-read, I find that fascinating. I have these albums, I can go listen to them any time. To watch you read through The Black Page in real time is extremely entertaining, so please feel free!
@Ron Moses - Yes I agree, sing along is OK! I'm amazed at how closely Doug nails it on an initial read.
Thats a new olympic dicipline Mr.
@@misterghee1 Sight reading should totally be an Olympic event! Or they could make a TV show... "Who's really got talent?"
@@andhemills Maybe not a T.V show but I could see a youtube channel that did this being very successful!
Exactly, anyone who complains about someone talking over a song or stopping it during a reaction video doesn’t get it. You wouldn’t watch a movie for the first time with the director’s commentary on, so you shouldn’t be listening to a song for the first time while watching someone react to it-and if you do, then you can kindly keep it to yourself and listen to it later on it’s own.
Mr. Zappa was basically a self taught composer/musician. The level of his genius is beyond words.
Fortunate enough to see Terry Bozzio + Chad Wackerman DUET the Black Page together in 2001 at the Montreal Drum Fest. It was amazing.
Terry Bozzio IS my Fav Drummer ALL time...!!! to Zappa to Missing Persons to play metal prog with Tony Levin...to Korn!! Bozzio can play everything!!
You lucky lucky man!
Chad Wackerman is a monster too! I saw him with Steven Wilson and damn he is amazing! He plays what ever he wants! Jazz, fusion, rock..
@@antoniocarlin5026 And he was in UK. Superb drummer!
Vinnie colaiuta
This is Pure Ear-Candy.
Zappa was a genius!
Zappa needs too be recognized as a brilliant composer which he was!
Logical
*@Uncle Remus.* He definitively is, especially in Western and Eastern Europe.
Zappa was an arrogant asshole
@@marlon-jl4ge ya cause you were close to him that’s how you know this!😂
He was last shit
You should watch the whole Zappa Plays Zappa concert. Bozzio does #1 and then Vai joins Dweezil for #2. The entire show will blow your mind and change your life.
Epic performance! Monthly I watch this.
That means a lot to me. My brother and I produced and directed that live concert film.
@@francoislamoureux5149 that concert is simply perfect. You gathered a constellation of FZ and Mothers's epic musicians and it was all joy.
Where can i find it on YT?
@@clust11 search for Zappa Plays Zappa Black Page
Finally !! The Black Page is so Petrouchka in a dystopian world. It’s my favorite FZ composition and I have been listening to it like a mantra for 40 years.
I agree with you. I always had Peaches in Regalia in my head as a personal theme song.
What about the dog breath variations
Same here.
George Duke once said in an interview that rehearsing with Frank was way different than with other bands. George said normally it was; "see you next week" but not with Zappa. Rehearsing with Zappa meant 5 days a week from 9 to 5. Further on he said that he doesn't know how all the bandmembers managed it but it was by far the most complex music he played.
Black Page always makes me think of the "musical communication" scene in Close Encounters Of The Third Kind
Perhaps not a coincidence as Steve Vai used that famous Close Encounters theme in the song 'Little Green Men' which was very much influenced by Zappa.
Ah, closet encounters of the turd kind, who could forget such an oevre?
Yeah with the flashing lights.
Zappa not only expected his band to play what was written... he also expected them to watch his hand signals... He may signal for individual members to play different time signatures, make 'peep' noise or scream. He may signal a style change like swing or Reggae (half time or double time depending on how many strands of hair he twisted) etc. He had some insanely talented musicians over the years!
ETA:
Terry Bozzio was/ is just an amazing drummer!
Yup, all of that, and also generally to be able to improvise solos on their instruments, and his rhythmic section musicians to freely interplay to HIS solos. With some exceptions, some couldn’t read music, and some didn’t improvise at all.
My band mates and I sat with Ian Underwood to watch Frank, Terry, Steve Vai, Ruth, George, etc debut Black Page Part 1. I still can't believe we were so fortunate to be there that night, in addition to witnessing such an incredible piece performed live. You mentioned the Inca Roads review. We were at the first show at the Roxy where Frank said they were trying out something new that night, which was Inca Roads.
Little known factoids: the melody for The Black Page was first written for Eddie Jobson to play on electric violin (you can still hear violin in the live mix); the chordal harmony was added much later for the 'Zappa in New York' recordings to be played by the SNL brass and the Brecker Bros, with Ruth Underwood adding marimba to the melody. But the original version was just violin, bass and drums written as a technical challenge for Zappa's only four-piece band - Zappa, Jobson, O'Hearn and Bozzio. Zappa never played the composition himself.
I met a bass player who had auditioned for him, and he said the entire audition was very professional. He sat down across from Frank at a music stand. He opened it up to Bartok and Frank basically said “ please play that backwards, transposed to D”
How did he do? How far did he get before Frank said "Thanks for coming down."
@@chrisogburn8240 he said he did it. Frank was gracious and gave full time. And he got a kind note thanking him for coming by but they chose someone else.
jordanfink8615: Holy crap !!!
At the first rehearsal of Alexander Borodin's Symphony #3 in A Minor, most of the musicians had never seen a 5/8 meter. They couldn't get it at first. So the conductor told them to say "Rimsky-Korsakov, Rimsky-Korsakov" and that worked.
Interesting watching videos of Steve Vai talk about all the transcribing he did for Frank's music while Steve was still relatively young (17-18?)
Hey Doug! Thanks for this reaction video!
Can i say that the level of excitement in your eyes when you listen to Zappa is on an other level than usually? It is a joy to be able to see you discovering this musical magician. Thank you for sharing this journey publicly. I'm sure that as a composer you will only have a lot of fun with Franks music. He truly was one of a kind, an expression too frequently used nowadays. Zappa cannot be compared to anything else, it doesn't fit into categories or genres. It is a genre in itself (if you want to stick to a concept of genres, that is. Something i don't like to do personally). Long live Zappa, long live Doug!
"The cool thing about it is, it's so hard, it's difficult to see if they're actually doing it right" D. Helvering
TH-cam guitar players: FLIGHT OF BUMBLEBEE @999BPM
I'm absolutely positive - Frank would love this so much!
The band that played on the Zappa in New York album (source Wikipedia)
F.Z - guitar, vocals, conducting
Ray White - guitar and vocals
Patrick O'Hearn - bass guitar, vocals
Terry Bozzio - drums, vocals
Eddie Jobson - keyboards, violin, vocals
Ruth Underwood - percussion, synthesizer and various humanly impossible overdubs
Lou Marini - alto sax, flute
Mike Brecker - tenor sax, flute
Ronnie Cuber - baritone sax, clarinet
Randy Brecker - trumpet
Tom Malone - trombone, trumpet, piccolo
Don Pardo - sophisticated narration
David Samuels - timpani, vibes
John Bergamo - percussion overdubs
Ed Mann - percussion overdubs
Lou Anne Neill - osmotic harp overdub
So yeah, some very high caliber musicians. You probably recognize few names from the SNL band that also performed in the Blues Brothers movie.
Patrick O'Hearn - bass guitar, vocals
Terry Bozzio - drums, vocals
Interesting to note, what takes other people years at college to learn, Frank just taught himself at the library 🤷🏻♂️ That dude...
Frank considered himself a composer first. That’s important to know. He spent his entire career working and writing so he could hear a full orchestra play his music, on his dime. He achieved that late in his career, while he was sick. So yes you are right, he took the approach of a classical composer. I write this before listening here. Have fun!
Supposedly this took Bozzio a couple of weeks of casual practice to master, while Vinnie Colaiuta played it by sight!
...Vinnie actually transcribed this - while at Berklee (before computers/internet) - and learned to play it by memory... When He auditioned for Frank, He threw this music in front of him, and asked him to play it ("sight read" it)... Since he already knew it from memory, he pretended to read through it - and before he was finished - Frank pulled it from the stand, and exclaimed...(in that "Frank Voice"), ..."OK, you obviously CAN read"... and after a few other tasks, he told all the other auditionee's that they could go home... Vinnie got the gig!!!
@@kjc9trader491 That said - Steve Vai said that Vinnie is " _one of the most amazing sight-readers that ever existed on the instrument_ ".
According to Vai, Colaiuta sight-read the even more complex "Mo 'N Herb's Vacation" and played it while grabbing and eating a piece of sushi at the same time.
@@d5uncr Yes ! I saw/heard that too...
What amazes me the most is that behind the complexity there is a beautiful melody. If you repeat listen, in short time you will see yourself humming some passages. The 2021 Zappa documentary has Ruth Underwood playing it on piano, beautiful.
Sooo sad that the "Duke Ellington" old style jazz part at the end was broken off. I just love that transition
When you started demonstrating the 7 I knew right off the bat where I'd heard that before -- another Zappa composition, It's in the middle of the Duke of Prunes suite on Absolutely Free. It's amazing when you have no musical education you know what you're hearing but just can't put it into words :D
Now we're talking. I purchased the score from Frank when he was still with us from Barfko-Swill as a study when I was in college for music composition. I have never achieved his level of "statistical density," but absolutely adore his entire output. He did some very unique reinterpretations of this piece over the years. I love the "new age version" from "make a jazz noise here." Can't wait to see Doug's face when he hears this.
It's hard to keep up with all the posthumous releases, but it's been worth it.
I did the same thing, I have a copy of the Black Page that I bought from Barfko- Swill will back in the day When Frank was still alive.
Great work explaining the rhythm!!! In traditional Hindu music they use a method of counting beats called Konnakol. It is especially suitable for complex rhythmic patterns.
Few things match the excitement I get when I check my TH-cam feed and see Doug has put out another Zappa analysis video!
PLEASE WATCH RUTH UNDERWOOD PERFORMING THIS ON THE PIANO FROM HIS MOVIE LAST YEAR. Sorry to shout, but she interprets the piece in a way that makes it Frank's finest composition instead of just a show-piece
It seems to be no coincidence that the first recommendation when searching "Ruth Underwood" is "ruth underwood black page piano"
true beauty
So complex, so challenging, yet so beautiful. He really was one of a kind. Miss you Frank.
FYI Zappa LOVED improvisation and spent much of the concert giving himself and his band time to improvise, but at certain times for solos.
Yeah, it's more about getting the best of both worlds.
And he'd record those solos and insert them into new pieces ("Xenochrony"). Almost all of the solos on Joe's Garage had the song written around them.
Thank you! Improvisation and experimental procedures were part of the performance of compositions that sounded absolute. Oddly or sadly this element is either missed or purposefully excluded by ZFT.
Not being a person who plays any instrument or can read music this was still fascinating. I know what i like though and Terry Bozzio is one of my favourite drummers. Love his playing on Punky's Whips, especially given he's also singing it.
A fantastic song ~ one of my all time favorites!
Post watch… in my opinion this is your best Zappa reaction yet, probably not to be topped. The request is perfect for that. Your insight was much more important here and I’m glad you offered it. That hasn’t been my reaction in other Zappa reactions, just being honest. But now I can see that you’re digging Zappa, and as weird as it might sound I get satisfaction from watching people become Zappa fans. Being a Zappa fan is like carrying around a beautiful secret that nobody wants to hear. Also, watching you read that music and hearing more about your career is impressive. Well done. Probably the best Zappa reaction I’ve seen yet, and trust me I’ve seen them all.
I agree 100%... I think it's because this has no lyrics - Doug seems to focus Way too much on Frank's "words" in the previous reactions...which impedes his appreciation of the music... he basically talked all over Inca Roads and Cosmik Debris - thus totally missing many of the beautiful musical complexities that are those pieces... I mentioned this in the comments section in both of those reactions... he did OK with Blessed Relief tho - again - cuz No Lyrics to "get in the way" of the music... ...LOL....
walking out for a breath of half time fresh air at a ZPZ show a few years back, met a stunned twenty something who was in a state of near apoplectic beautification whilst exclaiming ‘that was incredible, how on earth have i never heard this beautiful music before’
Probably should be a masterpiece Friday selection, but I'll take it!! Have fun, Doug!!
Masterpiece Mondays?
It is a masterpiece. I don’t think most people know what a great composer he was. They think of him as this guy who wrote weird novelty pieces.
Frank has a lot of wonderful spice in his music. It's been about 40 years since I first heard Frank on the Dr. Demento show as a 12 year old boy. Now at 52 he's still my absolute favorite musician. There is a lot that I respect about Frank but most of all I think it's his devotion to be himself and not give a rats ass about what other people thought about him or what he did.
BP #1 begins sounding like a Thai Gamelan piece! Can not imagine counting this, much less sight reading it. To say he had fantastic musicians is a gross understatement. Can you imagine going to a tryout? His auditions were legendary. The video of his drummers convening for a discussion of working for Frank is so worth watching.
Black page(s) is amazing watching live. Especially with Terry "animal" Bozzio on his massive drum set, and of course rest of the band when they come in. A (live) video series well worth watching is "Zappa - a token of his extreme", not just for the excellent numbers but also to watch Frank control his band and how better be paying attention constantly!
Yes, imho that's the best Zappa stuff available in video format
This one I have to see! I've known about The Black Page for years, but somehow have never managed to listen to it. Terry Bozzio even mentioned it in a drum clinic he did in Fort Lauderdale back in 1998. Terry's a great guy. Very down to earth. I hope to watch this tonight.
Finally exposing this masterpiece!! and sooo maaannyy more from the greatest composer of all times. RIp dear Frank
A couple times I've heard Doug say something along the lines of, "Now I've heard it and I can never be the same." That's the Zappa experience.
When you discover that Edgard Varese was one of Frank's favorite composers (if not his favorite), his compositional style and approach to music becomes much clearer. He was an effing genius composer. I still miss him being in our plane of existence ... but his music lives on.
Nice one Doug!
BTW, do a search for "Vinnie Colaiuta Recalls Brutal Zappa Audition, Reveals How Much He Was Paid" to learn more about how Zappa auditioned people.
Vinnie is the best drummer ever, IMHO.
Steve Vai on Vinnie Colaiuta
"I was just enamored with Vinnie. Back in the Frank days, his whole approach, when I heard Vinnie play, his phrasing - it satisfied something in my heart. It was easy to get certain rhythmic gratification from straight up-and-down-type players. Playing grooves, alternate grooves here and there. But Vinnie just came in and threw a wrench into the works. The guy is an alien. He was able to touch buttons with his sense of polyrhythms that no one has ever done. Frank's band was the perfect soundboard for that. I started transcribing his playing for The Frank Zappa Book. I mean, there's five to six different notations for the hi-hat!" [laughs]
"I'll tell you a really great Vinnie story. He's one of the most amazing sight-readers that ever existed on the instrument. One day we were in a Frank rehearsal, this was early '80s, and Frank brought in this piece of music called "Mo 'N Herb's Vacation." Just unbelievably complex. All the drums were written out, just like "The Black Page" except even more complex. There were these runs of like 17 over 3 and every drumhead is notated differently. And there were a whole bunch of people there, I think Bozzio was there."
"Vinnie had this piece of music on the stand to his right. To his left he had another music stand with a plate of sushi on it, okay? Now the tempo of the piece was very slow, like "The Black Page." And then the first riff came in, [mimics bizarre Zappa-esque drum rhythm patterns] with all these choking of cymbals, and hi-hat, ruffs, spinning of rototoms and all this crazy stuff. And I saw Vinnie reading this thing. Now, Vinnie has this habit of pushing his glasses up with the middle finger of his right hand. Well I saw him look at this one bar of music, it was the last bar of music on the page. He started to play it as he was turning the page with one hand, and then once the page was turned he continued playing the riff with his right hand, as he reached over with his left hand, grabbed a piece of sushi and put it in his mouth, continued the riff with his left hand and feet, pushed his glasses up, and then played the remaining part of the bar."
"It was the sickest thing I have ever seen. Frank threw his music up in the air. Bozzio turned around and walked away. I just started laughing."
Io1564Jupitermoon:
I never saw this interview before (I thought I've seen/read/heard EVERYTHING regarding Vinnie/Frank)... Thank You!!!
I'm only a casual Zappa fan (if there is such a thing) but this is the best episode yet, Doug. Well done.
Doug....I really enjoyed watching you read the music as it played....I bought this album when I was 15 in 1976.....I was alone in my devotion to this wild man with the killer mustache....his music led me to Jean Luc Ponty...Patrick O'hearn....George Duke....sooooo many talented artists over these 40 odd years...outstanding reaction and I'm now subscribed 😁 Thanks again !!!
King Crimson did something similar to Black Page, called Fracture. A guitarist spent 22 years learning to play this song it is so complex
Frank's main early influence was Edgar Varèse and Igor Stravinsky....I strongly suggest you listen to the album Orchestral Favorites....from a 53 years and counting long fan of Frankie Boy....
I would add The Yellow Shark, I think it was the orchestral project Frank was more satisfied with.
@@HakanTunaMuzik I have yet to pay proper listening to Civilization Phase III, but if I’m not mistaken it’s mostly done on the sinclavier, not played by an orchestra.
@@HakanTunaMuzik Got you. It’s not ensemble musicians playing the parts though, but sampled through the sinclavier, in case you didn’t know.
@@dago87able It's like leftover recordings from Lumpy Gravy mixed with synclavier. I still haven't listened straight through. Not even really too familiar with it. But I know all the Roxy performances by heart.
Ruth Underwood, in the recent Zappa movie, played this perfectly on the piano. It is awesome.
@@tenebrae23 Oh yes, indeed, what a golden moment in the film, I think I cried, so gorgeous.
Same with me, some Zappa I know by heart, even some of the intricate stuff; it’s part of my musical education (I mean from strict listening, I don’t read music).
Still one of the greatest things I’ve ever heard, and still brings me close to tears after all these years.
God bless Frank Zappa.
The King.
Frank always had some of the greatest musicians to ever grace the planet.
The Black Page was originally written for Terry Bozzio, as a drum solo. To me it's more of a drum composition.
Don’t forget about the great Ruth Underwood on percussion.
The melody was originally written for Eddie Jobson on violin (his second instrument).
I've been digging the Black Page since it came out in the 80s. As a former drummer with nowhere near this kind of skill level, it's always amazed me to know there are people that are at that level. But I never thought of it as a piece Frank would use to separate the real deals from the imposters. Only a composer would figure that one out. Nice job
Doug, Frank is the the Mozart, Beethoven etc (pick your classical favorite ) composer of contemporary music in my opinion. He is a composer, conductor (what some of his videos conducting) accomplished guitar player with a gift for the obsurd in the rock era. Frank is THE most interesting and utterly unique musician that I've ever heard, and I'm glad your finding this out. Watch the Zappa documentary that was put out last year by Alex Winter ( Bill & Ted fame) and you'll see what I mean and love him even more. He was also an intellectual even though his lyrics and on stage antics would make you think otherwise. I don't like everything he's done but there is so much of it you'll always find something new and wonderful with him. I think over 30 years or so he put out like 60 or 70 studio records and 57 posthumous ones for a total of around 120, and that's not including the live ones. So you could listen all your life and probably not get to all of them. Keep up the great work and I'm telling you that your on the verge of being a Frank superfan because of your music background. Keep up the great work!
Frank did not like Beethoven nor did he like Mozart, not an appropriate comparison.
@@ChromaticHarp interesting perspective, I guess if in MY opinion you reminded me of someone you disliked, MY expressing MY opinion would be inappropriate? I think you might have meant to say you disagree and then make an argument, but the fact that Frank disliked those composers isn't really an argument now is it? As a matter of fact Frank would protect my right to say it and your right to disagree, but it's certainly not inappropriate and there are far to many actually inappropriate things on the internet but this is not one of them.
@@swirll360 No argument at all, it seems you’re really put off by my comment, which was not my intention. I was just stating something that FZ said. No one is trying to control your right to freedom of speech.
And they play it live from memory, with no notes in front of them. Yet another level of terror.
Yeah, that's nasty.
It’s the only way to play FZ and have it sound authentic
@@Ed_Mann Yeah those London Symphony Orchestra types were so bogus having to read the music sheets. Lame-os couldn't be bothered to memorise.
@@Ed_Mann Yet another Zappa-(Raymond)Scott parallel...
@@smorrowtake a hint
In my second year of high school music theory my instructor gave me a quadraphonic 8-track Frank Zappa's apostrophe album. My musical life was changed forever! So 1983 what's the year I graduated from the Beatles and Black Sabbath and made me a Frank Zappa fan 4life. Keep it up kind sir, love your Channel
That was the best evaluation of Frank I have heard. A shame others could not fathom it.
I remember hearing Terry Bozzio saying that he added the HiHat to help him getting through the piece. So, originally it wasn't there. The melody is very nice, there is a piano version (Ruth is playing it ;) ) that reveals the beauty of it best. That is what I admire the most, complicated, yes, but also beautiful - happens a lot in Zappas music.
Absolutely true, the piano version is so beautiful and made me appreciate the other versions more as well
It's great watching you listen to Zappa, the joy in your face!
And I will keep suggesting Sonny Sharrock/ Last Exit for Weird Wednesday. It's Jazz like you never heard before.
Yeah, now that’s what I call music
it is not strictly jazz it is a mix of free jazz and rock and from a composers reacting view Helvering doesn´t care about performance ..little to analize ...Henry Cow would be more interesting or some Braxton visual scores......
@@jabu003 You make a good point, however they did have the one studio album and it's 'free' aspect is what I think Dr Doug might find interesting.
You touched on something that Zappa said about having an ensemble play a melody that is made up of these type of nested tuplets. A melody of five notes in a measure followed by a melody of four and then later thirteen notes crammed in a measure of 4/4 followed by maybe eleven notes... Frank said that if you only have people play the melody without the "pedestrian" beat behind it (to ground it) you end up with what sounds like a rubatto section. So, he purposely put the 4/4 beat behind the melody to give the melody something to push and pull against. This is a VERY difficult piece to pull off! I have recorded quite a few Zappa pieces over the last 40 years and to pull off this piece I had to write out the notes in the sequencing software. This is how Zappa used his Synclavier in Page R. In around 1990 I started inputing The Black Page into a Synclavier (using Page R), but I found that my Opcode Studio Vision Pro was a bit easier to use. Once I had the melody put in it was relatively easy to play the chords and bass section behind it. Fun days!
Ive always thought that this sounded like the soundtrack to a crazy dream.
I always thought thingfish was that
Learning so much listening to you teach rhythms and this is an amazing piece to work with.
On his introductory speech during the live version on Zappa in New York (1979), Zappa says:
“This song was originally constructed as a drum solo…. Now, after Terry learned how to play ‘The Black Page’ on the drum set, I figured, well, maybe it would be good for other instruments. So I wrote a melody that went along with the drum solo, and that turned into ‘The Black Page, Part 1, The Hard Version.’ Then I said, well, what about the other people in the world who might enjoy the melody of ‘The Black Page’ but couldn’t really approach its statistical density in its basic form? So, I went to work and constructed a little ditty which is now being set up for you with this little disco-type vamp…”
that was fun. thanks! #1 was Steve Vai's intro to FZ, the composer. i had a guitar teacher who told me that story and then loaned me his vinyl of the concert with sheet for The Black Page #1 (1987) and, i still hear layers and lessons listening. I also enjoy reactions to FZ. precision in time and the space it creates is brilliant.
Thanks for tackling this Doug. Its fun to watch you so fully engaged in a piece. It requires all the braincells to be firing!
Doug, journey through this masterpiece with you was like riding a roller coaster in the amusement park. Thank you for this joyful experience, I haven't ride one before =)
So glad you finally got to the Black Page! I have several comments:
1) To me the piece is very musical and beautiful even as complex as it is. I've seen comments from some of how it is random noise; but to me, I find it repeating in my head as I think about it later. A lot of Zappa's music is like that for me.
2) There is a TH-cam video "The Drummers of Frank Zappa" with Ralph Humphrey, Chester Tompson, Terry Bozzio, Chad Wakerman, and Ruth Underwood. In this video someone talks about how they would try to approximate some of the complex rhythms by using slightly different rhythm counting to make it easier to play. Ruth would call them out on it saying you are playing it like this, while actually is should be like this. So for at least some of the musicians (or most or all of them) they were playing exactly what was written, not an approximation. It's long (like 40 minutes" but really gives you an inside scoop to the drumming and rhythmic nature of Zappa's compositions.
3) Frank stated that Steve Vai was the most accurate in terms of getting the rhythms exactly right of all of his guitar players. In fact, Steve used to transcribe music for Frank, and he wrote a paper on how to play nested tuples. www.vai.com/tempo-mental/ Check it out!
If you want to watch something funny, find the TH-cam video of Steve talking about the time he interviewed to be in the Zappa band! ("Well, I think that Linda Rondstat is looking for a guitar player!") Also there is a cool interview on TH-cam with Rick Beato and Steave Vai and they talk about Frank for quite a bit. Also long at about 40 minutes but also very interesting.
4) Another fun TH-cam video is Vinnie Colaiuta which includes talking abut his interview with Frank Zappa. They pulled out the Black Page sheet music and as they were placing the music on his stand to test his sight reading he was playing it with one hand. They quickly took it off realizing OK obviously you can play that but now try something else!
There is another fun story somewhere about one of his drummers playing the black page with one hand while initially sight reading it and eating sushi with the other hand. I think it was Terry Bozio watching this in disbelief as it happened...
Have you done "The Grand Wazoo" from the album of the same name? How about "Big Swifty" and "Waka Jawaka" from the "Waka Jawaka" album? Still want to hear you do a reaction to the Berklee School of Music Zappa Medley!
Cheers! Regards! Thanks again!
The Vinnie stories are 1) he had already transcribed and memorized The Black Page well before the audition, so Zappa had to give him another piece to audition on, I think it was Pedro's Dowry; and 2) Frank wrote an even more difficult piece than The Black Page, called Mo N' Herb's Vacation, which Vinnie sight-read while Bozzio, Vai, etc., watched. Vinnie started playing one-handed in order to turn the page, then he switched hands to grab a piece of sushi, then he switched hands again to push his glasses up, before resuming using both hands.
A short but interesting story is Chad Wackerman's audition. Frank asked him, "Are you a good sight-reader, or are you a phenomenal sight-reader?" That must've been intimidating, especially knowing that you're replacing arguably the best sight-reader ever in Vinnie.
5, 7, and 9 stroke rolls were common rudiments for snare drum training, when i were a lad. They became inherent tools.
LOL your face when Terry Bozzio plays that first 11-tuplet near the end of the drum solo.
Hello there! I'm following your channel for some time now and I'm glad because you throw a different perspective over some pieces of music. Now, because of a Steve Vai concert I'm going to attent to in april (Bucharest, Romania), I'm watching everything I can put my eyes on TH-cam and I've remembered of an interview Rick Beato took to Steve Vai 5 years ago and in that interview Steve mentioned "The Black Page"...! That's the moment I've stopped the interview and started to look for the piece I didn't know anything about and, instead of listening to itself, I've chosen to watching you reacting to this amazing piece of music. Once again, thank you for your time and lecture!... Peace and Love (like Ringo use to say...)
I can never get over the art of sight-reading. From the early 1960s to the early 70s my life was Drum and Bugle Corps. At 9 years old I could play back and retain the 2nd soprano parts, 11 1/2 min. of music needed for field marching competition. After 2 seasons, I got into 2nd French horn. A French horn bugle uses the French horn mouthpiece and is used as an alto bugle. As styles change, the French horn was phased out in favor of mellophones. They have more bottom than a French horn with better carry. I took to it right away and in about a month I was asked by Ed Sudal, our brass instructor to take the mellophone solo in our concert formation. Thanks to Mr. Sudal and John Palitucci ( Now classical composer and conductor ) for their understanding, playing my parts back to me a phrase at a time so I could memorize them as I never learned to read music. I was also a fast learner on the drums, which caused some funny moments. The Monarchs, the corps I belonged to was hosting a winter Color Guard competition at the local High School. As host corps, our guard was to do an exhibition. A 3 man drum line supplied their beat. The tenor drummer and I were always being mistaken for twins, so when I found a free-standing mirror with no glass I dragged it back to our hall. I was known as a prankster so everyone watched me. Will, the drummer was inside so I went in. When we came out we were both wearing drummer's uniforms and carrying tenor drums. I adjusted my drum harness to mirror his and since I am naturally left-handed it was no problem playing left-hand lead. It was a short program so when our guard went out Will had already taught me his solo and the accent high-sticking that went with it. When the time came, someone slid the mirror to the edge of center court, Will stepped out of formation, I purposely started one step shorter to take Will's cue. We both hit our marks perfectly (when his left was down so was my right ). It went off to perfection and the drummer in the mirror even got mentioned in European drum corps newspapers. We could only do it in an exhibition because props were not allowed on the field during competition. It has all changed. We were all working-class kids. If someone couldn't do something (like reading music) they were never left behind.
You are GREAT Doug, it’s really interesting and also a lot of fun to listen to your passionate analysis’s!👍🙂 And since I love the music of Mr. Zappa so much I strongly urge you to return to him ASAP!!!🤪
I second that!!
This reminds me of a particularly stressful day i had in work when i used to be a chef. I allowed one of the waiters (whose music taste was awesome) to put his music on in the kitchen - the day ended up being busier and more stressful than usual, and this came on - loved the song but made everything feel more intense that it should have been. To make things worse, the next track on his playlist was bitches brew (Miles Davis) - what an intense day in the kitchen!
Great songs, but chefs beware!
Been waiting for this one. Great episode! Ive listened to this track for over 40 years and I learned quite a bit from your explanations. Thank you!
Always a pleasure to hear you speak and I appreciate your musical knowledge here too. I really enjoyed your explanation of the drills and exercises you teach at the very technical level.
Important to remember that FZ started as a drummer...
Watch Zappa on the Roxy Movie and half the time he is playing his guitar like a drum...
@@DWHarper62 and that INSANE rhythm section solo take of Cheepnis. Just bonkers. Ralph Humphrey needs more respect.
@@Green28142814 The Roxy IS a drummer's movie... at one point, essentialy 4 drummers on stage... and that Cheepnis rhythm take is spectacular.... I attended the premier in Los Angeles a few years back with a discussion after with Ralph Humphrey and Bruce Fowler and Ahmet and Joe Travers...
@@DWHarper62 *not overly reverential bow* It's been an honour, good sir.
That thing you said about using a word with a certain number of syllables to conceptualize the timing was extremely helpful.
Really well presented, Doug! So much fun. Thank you. :) I love the multi-syllable technique for counting odd times. I'm stealing that.
Doug, what a masterclass this video has been. To hear you talk about the music is so rewarding and enlightening and was so interesting to understand your teaching principles. An absolute joy to view. All the best from Dave from the U.K. ✅✅
Thanks for this reaction, I had a smile on my face throughout both pieces! It was definitely a fun one!
I love hearing you talk about the music Doug. Giving us insight on what we are listening and you present it in an understandable way. All the best!
Thank you for this, what a treat!
The first time I heard this piece was in Make A Jazz Noise Here, still my favorite version of it.
That was really fun, I so appreciate the technical analysis. I've listened to many versions of The Black Page since it was released ( 40+ years !! ) but today I gained insight into it's meaning and purpose. Thanks Doug.
I click 'like' every time I see your happy face Doug!
I’ve been waiting for this!!
I really enjoyed this and got a lot out of you following along. Singing out the notes and using the mouse. It was very helpful in bridging sight reading visuals to hearing the piece. Count out the rhythm was not only entertaining, but educational for me. Glad you do what you do, my good man. Looking forward to more!
There is so much more to learn from a teacher as Zappa is with his music. Too many Conservatories discovered him as one of the best composers of all times. Try also his favorite music, his "serious music"... all what he wrote during the yers with various orchestras and directors starting from 1970 to 1992 with "The yellow shark". You'll be surprised. Best from Italy, Romano
So glad you got to this piece (both #1 & #2), not only an amazing test of musicianship for any performer as you explain, but also and amazing composition to listen to in it's own right. Loved watching your reactions as you travelled through the piece. Thanks Doug.
Fascinating analysis, Doug. Thanks!
Where it fades out there's a lounge jazz like end tag to this piece.
Love how you break things down passionately into something more understandable. Thank you
Really enjoyable watch as usual!! Still hoping for some heavily composed Phish one of these days. One of the few bands that take a lot from FZ. Keep up the great work!
YEM
Frank always was a classical composer who used a wide range of musical styles including rock frequently within one song.
Wow! This my favorite reaction you’ve posted! As a musician, I totally dig the way you broke down subdivisions. Great to see a composer appreciate the brilliance of FZ!
Great stuff as always Doug...loved the 3/4, 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 7,4 explanations...top work
Love your enthusiasm mixed with your deep knowledge of music.
I was lucky enough to be at one of those New York shows. That is the amazing Ruth Underwood on marimba and vibes, Terry Bozzio on Drums. Fantastic show and composition. Love Frank miss him a lot😥
I personally like when you sing along , I can focus on the notes while you keep me in time. Awesome video!
FINALLY - thank you! I've only been griping and hounding you for about a year
That was quite enjoyable. I'm glad I finally listened to them as well. It reminds me of some of Frank's more circus-like music, but without most of the components that made those other songs sound "circusy".
For those who don't know of this, I highly recommend listening to Black Light Syndrome by Bozzio Levin Stevens. The band is Terry Bozzio, of course, Tony Levin and Steve Stevens. Tony is a living legend master class bassist and Chapman Stick player. Steve Stevens is from Billy Idol's backing band Generation X, but he really shines here without being over the top. A true master class musician.
Black Light Syndrome had to be recorded in a very short window due to Tony having other obligations. So, there is a lot of improvisation and the album has a very live feel despite having a few overdubs and added sound effects. Extraordinary and gorgeous album. It showcases how much better Terry has become since his days with Zappa. Such an incredible drummer.