@samcrac if you have access to a thermal imaging gun before you replace the water pump take out all the covers underneath the car once the car heats up run that gun over the pipes to see where it's clogged. That's obviously after replacing the radiator and the cap
To add my 2 cents, based on Pat's comments and your previous i8 videos I would re-evaluate the tools and procedure you are using to fill the coolant system. 1) Use a venturi based vacuum tool. You need a serious vacuum in the system because you aren't "filling" the system with vacuum you are trying to create an empty space that will be filled by the coolant. That coolant system isn't like an old V8 with a high point where all the air can flow, it appears that will be impossible to fill it 100% with coolant unless you remove all the air in the system first. Check out this tool video th-cam.com/video/7XvruszCi4Y/w-d-xo.html 2) As Pat noted from the procedure, start by draining the coolant system COMPLETELY. If you draw a vacuum while it still has coolant there may be pockets of air that are blocked by the coolant and remain in the system even if the vacuum gauge shows a good vacuum level. Remaining coolant may also just boil under the vacuum and you'll vacuum out vapor instead of the air you want to remove. And as in the linked video, you may need to adjust climate control settings to make sure all coolant valves are opened and the system drained. 3) Use the vacuum in the system to refill with coolant and make sure you don't suck in any air. Again in the linked video they do this, but I would go one step further because the video shows them sucking in a small amount of air from the fill tube. Pre-fill the tubing that is used to refill the system so you don't suck in ANY air at all.
Thanks Docta! I feel honored to help Sam. We've been in touch nearly every day. I've been a fan of his since the R8 purchase. To now link up with him and troubleshoot an i8 feels really good.
Pat, I’ve had multiple i8’s in my little garage and I worked for bmw of San Francisco for 15 years, and I just follow the same bleed process I’ve done on every single bmw and rolls Royce I’ve touched, and that was just fill it completely, turn the car on for ten seconds for the water pump to kick on, and turn the fan on low, and just wait and monitor it for about 15-20mims, crack the bleeder valve every now and then. I just did a radiator R&R this Monday, did the same process as usual, it did not work the first time and the temp went up, but I parked it, turn the fan back on low and was a bit more patient, and it never overheated again. I checked with the customer yesterday and he said it’s running fine. The only manufacturer that I’ve had to absolutely air bleed is VW/Audi and Porsche. Idk why the process works for me every time, I guess it just comes with years of experience as well. So strange people say that the “ vacuum bleed” was the only way to do it. I had Mavis Tire call my garage to come in and bleed an i8, and showed the tech the same process I did, 15 mins later, the i8 was back to their customer. Just try it once time. I’d the cooling system is closed fully, this method should work every time.
@@DesignIsDestiny What i do is this, put the ebrke on, put the car in N, or D, or tke it out of Hybrid motor to get the engine tuning, turn the heat on full medium/full, once heat starts pumping thru the vents, in my opinion, thats when im confident all the air is bleed from the system, i do leave the res caps off for a few minutes as well. Thats what I was taught in tech school and the only manufacture that it did not work on was Porsche/Audi/VW, they have a little solenoid you vent or open under the cowl at the wipers. With BMW, this is what ives always done and never had an issue.
Undo every coolant pipe. Then treat every section of the system as an independent system. Ensure no obstructions. Then start re-connecting, joining section to section and retest. Then join the lot together.
Very unnecessary to do it this way. The most effective method to troubleshooting is half splitting. You test the entire system in two separate sections at a time eliminating the side that was good until you are down to the faulty component. Doing pats method tests everything from the solid pipes back. If that worked then the problem is either in the front or the bleeding process. I would use your method only when coolant types were mixed and I wanted to clean all of the houses individually.
When doing the vacuum purge and refill, you might want to start with the front end jacked up a couple of feet to get the water to run downhill and also the air rise to the top
@@dragnet53 sorry but Tesla managed to screw up their cars with needless complexity. They replaced $40 door handles with $500 electric actuators. Now you cant get in if they fail. You cant open the door to get to the charger cover if the battery ever goes dead. They put every control into the Ipad they hot glued to the dash so you cant drive if that fails. They took the simplest drivetrain ever made and put it in a car that will cost a fortune to maintain over its life. On top of that, they are still learning how to design and build them.
thanks!! this was really good!! I came over from Samcrac to see your comments! it really makes it tough to trust dealerships that suggest replacing the engine with symptoms such as this! thanks again!
What a wondeful guy Pat is. A free, honest appraisal of the overheating issues experianced by i8 owners. Clearly explained. Best of luck on fixing the car SamCrac.
@@unknowndesconocido8325 The last time I got mad, I was trying to flip a 3 egg omelet over in a pan. It wasn't cooked enough on the first side, so when I tried to flip it, it fell apart. I got pretty mad that day.
Before I write I comment I wanna state that I understand you understand the order of operations in the cooling system and very technical just by how you explain it/ I’m now a new subscriber! That’s so nice of you to reach out and help him and answer questions and your personal concerns on what you would look for. Absolutely wonderful and god bless you man!
Fabulous input Pat, I was thinking the exact same thing! In all my years of working on North American and Exotic Motors , I have yet to tell a customer "Engine Replacement" regarding "Over Heating" problem! This to me is a Blockage , Air or Mechanical ! Kind Regards, J...
Funny thing is...your right (even if no joke intended). When I began at BMW in 90s there were half a dozen guys, usually only 40+, that were making well over 200k a year. Some more. Part of it is the basic fact we start high after being base certified, make proportionately more each major certification and annually in general. Next is the 'seniority' factor,, which is an unwritten factor nobody knows about until your both senior and damn good. All those factors cumulatively lead to a gross annual income of XXX, and corporate bonuses to really good senior master techs is almost blindly based on that gross number by people you've never met...so gross of 175k (already a good number) suddenly becomes inflated by a 10% bonus, plus most BMW employees have profit sharing, ira's, stocks, etc. Which for some with 20+ years in, can be another 50k a year. Some guys like me had another career prior and degrees...so my BS in biology and MS in biochem started me off in a VERY different payscale than a young guy freshly finishing BMW's tech program. Reason I'm writing all this is in hopes other people encourage young people to go for it and they can have the same toys any doctor or lawyer has...but it'll take likely the equivalent amount of work and knowledge . Definitely nothing easy about it..
I am going to go with the simplest of sabotage methods . Prior to repo owner took rad cap off and dumped 2 quarts of rad stop leak or something that settled in the bottom of the rad. We will see when Sam gets the rad out. Hopefully his Step Mom isn't keeping Sam from his work. Another new Sub for you today. Just found you linked thru Sam
It’s when I see folks like you speak about things like diagnostics that remind me I’m a part changer, not a technician. The depth of knowledge some of you guys have is really impressive.
This is why in my country in south Europe we have a saying "a BMW owner is only happy twice, the day that he buys it and the day that he finally sells it."
I'm actually one of the techs that worked on the car. Replaced the oil filter housing, mechanical water pump, and one of the turbo aux coolant pumps. I tried bleeding this car for 3 days. That car needs an engine, the water pump and oil filter housing I took off were melted. The engine sounded fine so we tried to save it, there is a blockage in the engine itself somewhere and probably other places. I have nightmares of this car to this day. Eventually you will get oil pressure faults in the DME
That phrase right there "take it in for service" is why I won't buy a vehicle like the bmw. If that leaves me and my family stuck in the early 2000s then so be it.
Exactly what I mean. Terrificly difficult. My Gmc doesn't even have a distinct for the transmission. My friend who was a tech for GM said they have to drive it for 10 minutes to get it up to temp and if it will take fluid then it wasn't full. Bad thing was he wasn't allowed by the dealership to drive it. So they let it run a few minutes then tried to fill. It's that kind of thing I have a real issue with. Other than that techs are worth the money as long as you can afford the parts.
I was thinking exactly the same thing, a cooling system should be simple and something like changing and bleeding coolant should be able to be done with basic tools, definitely a poor design.
Thanks Pat for jumping in to help. I am a huge fan of the i8 and hope to be able to afford one in the near future. Because of this I do a lot of research on the i8, its maintenance and its flaws and in doing so, I saw this situation with his overheating i8 . I was going to suggest for him to try to reach out to you, but you came to the rescue. I can wait to see if he got it work properly. 🙂
Thank you so much for the kind words. Fortunately, Sam and I have spoken routinely and are trying to put our heads together to fix this problem, albeit virtually (for me).
Same here. I would look for a tennis ball shoved in a radiator line or another act of sabotage. KISS it (keep it simple stupid) . Pull every easy to get to line aff and check for blockages. Get a hose diagram and make sure they are routed correctly. Would of had the radiator taken to a shop and boiled out before they blew it up and it needed to be replaced. Pull the thermostat out and see if the car still overheated. Before hooking up the radiator hoses with the thermostat out I would have ran a hose in one hose and out the other to make sure the entire system had flow. Sometimes when you overthink things you overlook the obvious.
Good to see a big TH-camr getting help from a smaller TH-camr. This needs to happen more. Everyone support and help everyone. Just because we are small it does not mean we do not know what we are doing.
Thank you. It's been an honor to work both with Sam and Rich Rebuilds this year, as they both actually reached out to me. Me trying to get ahold of Sam was just a good story. Checked out your channel and like what I see. Subbed!
Sadly, it's not easy to get to. It's at the front of the block, against the firewall with the passenger compartment. The service manual indicates that the entire rear subframe needs to be dropped to replace that sensor.
@@PatsGarageOnline it sounds to me like bmw was in a bit of a rush to get this car onto the market and didn’t think that if the engine has higher cooling lines in the engine than the radiator they will end up with air pockets at the highest point. Is there anywhere you can have a bleeder valve installed. Any air trapped in the system is going to make the water pump basically useless
@@MrDemonchild71 no they intentionally planned it that way - over- engineered (as Scotty Kilmer says) too many stupid sensors, on a computer, and by someone with an edumacation with no actual hands on working on it. when 1 piece of plastic breaks - torch it
@@stephenbartram7377 you're totally right. You know if an actual hands on mechanic at least had some input in the design of modern cars they wouldn't have half the stupid problems they have. All it would take is a tiny bleeder valve near the sensor
I had a similar overheating issue with my 2004 Mustang. Everyone said that the head gasket had failed, even though the car ran fine and wasn't using coolant and there was no coolant evident in the oil or exhaust. It never indicated an overheat on the temp gauge or ses light, but the cooling fan would stay on and obd data showed temps as high as 107C. It also wouldn't put out heat from the vents. I had bled the system in the factory recommended procedure. I bled it again, but had the nose of the car on ramps so the engine and all coolant paths would be lower than the bleed bolt of the bypass hose. Angling the car worked, as all the air bubbles could be heard gurgling through the bypass. No more overheating, and the hvac puts out great heat.
That's awesome. I also received a couple more positive messages saying that this technique worked for them. I put it in my follow up video that I just released. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Exactly. Why in the world would anyone build a car with high dry spots you need to run a vac on just to get the coolant system cleared? Why no bleeder on the high spot? Buses from back in the 60's and 70's had huge cooling systems, lines running everywhere, and they had valves and bleeders
Thank you for your input, Pat. I have been following Sam on his quest to get his i8 running.It is a common theme among engineers and designers nowadays, to add layers of complexity to manage otherwise simple systems. The problem is, that the public feels forced to purchase products that are not very user-friendly, but are also a nightmare to diagnose when problems arise. I designed and built machine tooling and repaired machinery for decades. What I found was that, the fewer the moving parts, the easier it was to train someone to use the device. Also, malfunctions were much easier to diagnose and fix. I enjoyed your no-nonsense approach in this video.
Thank you for the kind words and for sharing your experience. I am a simple DIY guy that enjoys working on cars, and this car has fascinated me because of its complex systems. But it certainly not a car for the DIYer to continue to own after the warranty is expired, in my opinion. It's just super complex for a one-man garage.
as much as a pain in the butt as these increasingly complicated mecha-tronics are for car repair, they are also kind of inevitable as we try and squeeze the last joules of energy with less and less waste product/pollution from burning million year old sunlight. And in engines closer and closer to the edge of safe operating tolerances as far as heat and weight. I'm still waiting for the old Crosby style brazed sheet metal COBRA engines to make a comeback. Easy to get an engine block to operating temp when its only 18 Gauge steel :/
Whenever we have had a coolant problem, we just use coloured food dye, put in the expansion bottle, and run the engine, then go to the furthest hose/components and see if you have coloured water? If not work forward until you find the blockage/problem, just like they do in medicine
At least that way you will see if there’s a blockage, it’s just a process of elimination, if there is coloured water, then it can only be electrical or mechanical, the waterways are ok.
Pat I agree. Sam needs to take apart the car more completely. I personally would pull each coolant line on the high temp circuit. 1 that would allow all the coolant to drain and 2 you can check each circuit system for blockages. If the coolant temperature sensor is the highest point in the cooling system, I would pull it out and see if air comes out before the water to test that theory. I wouldn't be confident in this car until a root cause is firmly determined - thats just the engineer in me! Subscribed!
Thanks for joining the channel! I agree that pulling the coolant hoses would be very wise, and allow for sequential testing of each component and line. I wish the coolant sensor wasn't between the block and the firewall. The only way to get to it is dropping the sub-frame with the engine attached. Drilling and tapping another hole to the water jacket might be the only way to truly fix this air pocket problem that plagues the i8's.
Very simple: 1) make sure no blockages. Make sure fluid is flowing from one end to the other 2) bleed the system thoroughly. 3) replace radiator and water pump 4) check for leaks. Repeat bleeding procedure. 5) ensure all sensors are working as expected.
To me . . . the old school way I was taught to bleed all air from a coolant system of any car was to . . . "While Parked" after bringing the engine up to full temp . . . turn the heater temp dial up to absolute hot and turn the fan up as high as it will go while keeping a constant eye on the overflow bottle and keep it full. Then let it run, "Take the car out on the road" leave the heater set like this even if it's summer and take the car out on a 20 minute drive and stop every few minutes . . . keep the overflow bottle full you dont want the overflow bottle sucking any air by going empty . . . . while doing this. Someone could have dumped pure anti freeze into the system without mixing it and gummed/clogged it up.
I didn't know about this chanel till now and I'm glad to see the car community working together to help each other... I'm for sure subscribed from now on. 🍻
BMWs are made for rich people who don't keep their cars for long, and buy the new model as soon as it comes out. Or ,when a problem like this comes up, simply trade in the car and get a new one. They're not really made to be repaired .
Hello Pat Just curious if water would flow from one aluminium coolant hose (under body) through the engine, and out the other hose, given that there thermostat would be closed. Is it not ECU operated ( think I remember you covered that on another video) Thanks again Pat.
I don't know about the BMW design at all, but experienced something similar with overheating due to a bad casting on a GM V8 where the flow was restricted due to a blockage in the system. Hadn't watched your channel before, but appreciate the way you lay out the video with captions for the different sections. Wish everyone did that!
Thanks for the kind words. Yes, any engine can have a restriction and I would assume that if the i8 was known for this, that it would overheat with no air in the system. So far, no BMW i8 owners have come forward to indicate that this happens when the coolant system is working properly.
Glad you two connected on this issue. I think if Sam can take his time and methodically go through the process, he should be able to get great results with your advice.
Love your basic down to earth solutions, waterhose, check for sabotage on the electric pump, massaging the hoses old style. I would recommend checking the old radiator very thoroughly and cutting it up too.
@@PatsGarageOnline Overheating issues can be caused by a blockage in the exhaust system as well, worth checking if the Catalytic Converter is in good nick.
Wouldn't it be funny, in a very sad way, that after replacing the engine there's still an overheating issue. Wonder how many times they'd replace the engine before nailing the air purging procedure?
I have serviced many BMW cooling systems NEVER AN I8, and I have never had issues. The "old school" method works fine. E46 if it isn't bleeding, start thinking head gasket or cracked head. I understand I8 is a fancy system and so forth and so on, but I don't see any issues bleeding normal BMW's from the 70s to the 2010+ as being required to vacuum bleed. Probably well over 200 BMW cooling systems serviced.
G'day m8....i must say the clarity and clear explination on the Whole water issue with the I8 was layed out really well. Samcrac hopefully will use this to his advantage and sort this great sports car out....cheers for the vid from a car nut, way, way way. Downunder!!...aka Australia
@@AnnaKuznetzova88 have you seen videos of Luis rossman they wanted a kid to pay 1200 for repairs when the only thing wrong with his computer was a ribbon cable worth 20$
Good advice. I have a love/hate affair with BMW’s and Porsche’s from owning and wrenching on them while I was stationed in Germany. When they’re running right, they’re awesome, but when they screw up, they’re an over engineered nightmare! Adjusting valve lash on an E21 323i is a prime example as the lash has to be EXACTLY to the amount called for. It’s not like on an American car where you can do it from say .010-.015, if the manual says .008 it has to be dead on .008 or you have problems.
Great video Pat. I'm a Samcrac viewer and found your awesome video offering great experience. I've never seen a car overheating issue this complicated before.
I made this suggestion to Samcrac a couple of days ago. Its got to be an air pocket that is stopping circulation and getting the front end higher will do the trick. Lets hope he tries this and saves himself a lot of aggro.
I was really expecting you to say - park it on a steep incline, let the piece of shit run off over the cliff then go get a car that works, obviously not a BMW!
@@phildragonslayer8127 unfortunately Sam lives in florida... not many inclines around. Though there is the Sunshine Skyway bridge in Tampa! that is pretty steep
I'm so surprised that even a BMW shop was not able to diagnose this properly. Seems like it is getting harder and harder to find good mechanics. Awesome explanation of what is going on.
@@ClarenceDoskocil Yeah, I bought an LT1 engine from a salvage yard, and it had a block heater installed. I heard one guy at the yard say is that the engine that overheated. Anyway, I pulled the block heater out, and there was a frost plug jammed between two cylinders. Whoever put it in, just pushed the frost plug in, without removing it. So anything obstructing flow in there will cause overheating.
I haven't slept in 3 days, I hope you guys get this fixed so I can de-zombify myself & fix my own air problems in my deep well pump. Good luck & cheers.
Finally! Crack needs to stop screwing around and bypass the coolant system with the garden hose trick you noted. That will tell him if the motor is free of obstruction and is flowing fluid. If yes, then he can chase problems elsewhere.
Those big funnels that hold coolant work really well, shaking the car up and down and side to side also helps, crank the heat up to make sure the heater core doesn't have air in it. I've done countless full engine swaps when i used to work for a privately owned shop that only fixed municipal cars, mostly crown vics. We've never had a car come back for overheating. And yes massaging the hoses works better then most people think haha.
Glad to see this video cause he is spot on. A small change to system would cause chaos . I have seen bolts and rubber balls shoved in hoses , even dumped a ton of stop leak in a car to plug up coolant system.
I'm enjoying the content Sam pumps out. Thank you for being able to lend him a hand! personally, there are some BMW's I like, but I'd never buy one... I'm an AMG guy but... I do have a soft spot for the E63 M6 coupe, such a shame it's a time bomb.
I even have an old school tool that you hook up to a garden hose and air line simultaneously. You can use a little low pressure (10-15psi) to clear out your water jacket, radiator, etc. I'd definitely make sure there's good flow through separate parts of the system before putting things back together.
Subbed. The only engine vids I have on my channel are the ones I created the channel for back in 1997. At the time I was rebuilding six cylinder Landrovers. Only 12,000 were ever made with the Land Rover engine. The one in my vid is a 1967 Carawagon. All this to say I love anything to do with cars and engines. Hence the sub. Great vids.
Hi folks. Great to follow I8 issues. As a heating engineer for many years in Northern Ireland i specialized in problematic water/coolant systems with flow/blockage issues in buildings. It seems you have similar, but in a car. Few thoughts.. Remove all coolant pipework for visual check for sabotage blockage as system does not appear to have full circulation. Also wouldn't be surprised if radiator has accidental/sabotage blockage. Removal of air in any heating/cooling system whether a car or building is absolutely paramount for correct function/flow.
Its a head gasket. It was blowing water out the coolant reservoir and it ended up cracking the radiator. There is a lot of pressure building up and its not all from overheating. I did notice he was using plain water during the testing and plain water cooks of easily. I will assume the proper coolant is a special formula that doesn't boil easily. Evans coolant is a special no water coolant made for racing and doesn't boil very easily. The aluminum heads easily warp from low coolant or coolant thats not bled right. Vapor/air pocket can create hots spots in the head. Those gases building up in the coolant need to be checked for hydrocarbon gases by using an emissions tester that is used to check emissions from the exhaust. Some kind of testing device would need to be rigged up to do this unless they make one for it. Many cars are engineered to fail. Do you see any engineering flaws in the cooling system? I would say it needs some bleeder valves at high parts of the engine to help get those air pockets out easily.
Great analysis. Once he gets the additional parts for the repair and actually bleeds the system, I look forward to seeing if he is able to continue troubleshooting for a possible head gasket issue. I didn't want to suggest that so soon, without being able to get him past the air pocket at the top of the water jacket as this is so hard to get out. Dealers are used to doing the vacuum bleed procedure up to 10 times in a row before it will actually bleed. And, that's the dealer. There is definitely a design flaw with the high temperature coolant system in this car.
That little 3 cylinder sounds louder than my 520d! If Sam suspects sabotage, it would be worth doing a flow test on every element of the system. Adding something to the coolant to cause a blockage would have been the easiest route to cause issues. I've seen equipment from repossession auctions being drained of all fluids and flushed prior to use, especially oils, as it was common to find cutting paste in there.
As a BMW owner myself, I feel this mans pain. I had a CEL on my F10 ActiveHybrid 5 come on indicating an issue with the fuel pressure sensor. The Indy shop had replaced the tank fuel pump but reused the sensor. Sensor went bad in a few months. Replaced it. CEL kept happening. And they were at a complete loss as to why. The car was then showing evap leak codes in addition to fuel tank pressure too high etc etc. Eventually, they ran out of things to try and gave up. I ended up downloading ISTA+, teaching myself how to use it, going into the service menu functions and reading SB docs. Turns out the sensor needed to be calibrated. Did that myself. Ran diagnostic tests, fixed the issue with software. These cars are complicated. Sometimes, needlessly so. However... When they are healthy, they truly are a joy to drive. Maintain them well. Fix small issues before they become big ones. Everything is fine. 120k miles on mine and going strong. Regular oil changes every 5000 miles and maintenance. Haters will always hate. Live and let live. (Just avoid the stealership if you can)
I appreciate that you took the time in order to diagnose and correct the problem with the fuel pressure sensor. Not a lot of people would take that chance. I'm glad you're able to correct the problem with the car and avoid the stealership. I try to help my viewers do the same for the most part. But some of these more complicated issues are just too hard for the average DIY guy to do.
@@TotalFreshness they tried the last procedure (involving checking the thermostat) and decided to replace it (even if they hadn't in that one). and then it broke on them. so yes, this was all covered in the last video.
I agree I think someone either switched the pump hoses or just put in a blockage somewhere, like plastic cap with a hole restricting the water flow. Other guess is they used one of those stop leaks when the radiator leaked.
Great video Pat, thanks for helping out Sam. Glad the old school methods are still applicable in modern cars, having used this method before of massaging water hoses I can vouch for it, my Dad taught me. 👍👍
I mentioned in Samrac's video that I believed the system was clogged, possibly from the wrong coolant being used. I know that my Fiat 500 Abarth's manual warns against mixing HOAT coolant with OAT coolant and that it could cause irreversible damage. I'm so glad my car's cooling system isn't anywhere near as complicated. You drain it, refill it, run the engine for a few minutes to bleed the air out of the system, then top it off a couple of times. No vacuum procedure required.
I agree its air in the system, I used to be a huge enthusiast of a certain mid engine car. One method of getting air out of the system that can help is too use a steep hill. Bleed the system with the cars nose pointed at the sky.
Somebody sabotaged it by putting a metal ball bearing in a hose connection. Not big enough to restrict flow but big enough to restrict the volume of flow.
And this is why running a garden hose through the lines to check for flow makes some sense. One of those front to rear lines being crimped for example. Or, something floating around in the system. But, the radiator failing under low pressure as it did make me think that there was a vacuum leak there and never a good bleed.
Somebody mentioned a bleeder screw. Man, ALL of the old BMWS I've worked on all had coolant bleed screws. Very simple to use. I find it hard to believe that this car doesn't have one but instead requires crazy multi-step vacuum bleed equipment.
Back in the day when I worked on race cars it was common for this to happen as the top of the block is higher than the water tank. The solution is to jack the front of the car up really high so the top of the rad or the top of the water tank is above the height of the top of the block. It made a massive difference in bleeding. Also if all fails remove the thermostat and bleed without it. Another trick was to fill the system using hot water (80c+). We would boil a really large pot of water and the pour it in using a funnel and that was also a massive help as it opened the stat up... then as soon as 4-5L of water in start the engine. Vac bleeders are not always the solution....
I really don’t know that much about I ate although I am surprised that there are not more three cylinder cars today considering how awesome the fire fly was and how efficient they can be! It seems as though Sam crack and friends were forgetting about it primarily being an electric vehicle, the engine seems to be more of a generator than an engine in the conventional sense. This leads me to believe that there are many passages for cooling the battery and electrical components that nobody mentioned at all. This would make sense that vacuum bleeding would be so hard, that said I am surprised that BMW have not added additional fittings to make it easier or some sort of BMW vacuum bleed system that cost $10,000 for shops to buy… Thanks for the videos, cheers!
Thanks for the comment. The hybrid batteries are actually cooled by AC refrigerant lines coming off the AC Compressor. The electric motor and several other components are cooled using the low temperature liquid coolant circuit. The high temp circuit that cools the engine also cools the turbo, provides cabin heat (except in electric mode, then an auxiliary electric heater turns on in line), etc. The car was conceived during the era of finding creative ways to reduce CO2 and noise emissions, while decreasing gas consumption. But battery tech was very poor at the time, or it likely would have been all electric. So, here's what we got. And, after the warranty is out on mine, it's out of my garage.
Lexus is made by Toyota. Just like Acura is made by Honda. Infiniti made by Nissan. These companies where trying to get around the stigma in the 1980s and 1990s that Honda and Toyota were cheap Japanese rustbuckets with zero luxury, and appeal to middle class buyers.
All the time watching Samcrac's video I was thinking exactly that about obstructions - it's old-school method for things like blocked heater cores - try running hose through to ensure to get flow out the other side. Sabotage could be as simple as a small rag stuffed into the end of a hose then re-attached.
Thanks for the input Pat. I'll continue to keep you updated on the issue. Replacement parts are arriving any day now!
I left a comment on your youtube page very similar checks
@samcrac if you have access to a thermal imaging gun before you replace the water pump take out all the covers underneath the car once the car heats up run that gun over the pipes to see where it's clogged. That's obviously after replacing the radiator and the cap
I'm so hooked cant wait for the parts replacing and radiator fix or replacing !
To add my 2 cents, based on Pat's comments and your previous i8 videos I would re-evaluate the tools and procedure you are using to fill the coolant system.
1) Use a venturi based vacuum tool. You need a serious vacuum in the system because you aren't "filling" the system with vacuum you are trying to create an empty space that will be filled by the coolant. That coolant system isn't like an old V8 with a high point where all the air can flow, it appears that will be impossible to fill it 100% with coolant unless you remove all the air in the system first. Check out this tool video th-cam.com/video/7XvruszCi4Y/w-d-xo.html
2) As Pat noted from the procedure, start by draining the coolant system COMPLETELY. If you draw a vacuum while it still has coolant there may be pockets of air that are blocked by the coolant and remain in the system even if the vacuum gauge shows a good vacuum level. Remaining coolant may also just boil under the vacuum and you'll vacuum out vapor instead of the air you want to remove. And as in the linked video, you may need to adjust climate control settings to make sure all coolant valves are opened and the system drained.
3) Use the vacuum in the system to refill with coolant and make sure you don't suck in any air. Again in the linked video they do this, but I would go one step further because the video shows them sucking in a small amount of air from the fill tube. Pre-fill the tubing that is used to refill the system so you don't suck in ANY air at all.
@@btedition fantastic idea!!
That’s what I love about our community. Thanks Pat for your service. I have been following Sam on the journey too. Very intriguing problem!
Thanks Docta! I feel honored to help Sam. We've been in touch nearly every day. I've been a fan of his since the R8 purchase. To now link up with him and troubleshoot an i8 feels really good.
How did"finishing with his step mom" go under the radar. Savage.
That’s what I heard, too! It sounded like he said “finishing off his step-mom.” 😆
His step mom is hot !
I... almost lost a keyboard to this. Red shows... That it does.
Nice spot!
it actually made me cry from laughter, got me by surprise
You didn't have to wait long, sam finishes very quick with his stepmom
We all do.
@@PatsGarageOnline That was savage
A man with an NSX and an I8. Plus he is friends with Sam AND Docta? You earned a sub!
Thanks for joining the channel! 👍
Pat, I’ve had multiple i8’s in my little garage and I worked for bmw of San Francisco for 15 years, and I just follow the same bleed process I’ve done on every single bmw and rolls Royce I’ve touched, and that was just fill it completely, turn the car on for ten seconds for the water pump to kick on, and turn the fan on low, and just wait and monitor it for about 15-20mims, crack the bleeder valve every now and then.
I just did a radiator R&R this Monday, did the same process as usual, it did not work the first time and the temp went up, but I parked it, turn the fan back on low and was a bit more patient, and it never overheated again. I checked with the customer yesterday and he said it’s running fine.
The only manufacturer that I’ve had to absolutely air bleed is VW/Audi and Porsche.
Idk why the process works for me every time, I guess it just comes with years of experience as well. So strange people say that the “ vacuum bleed” was the only way to do it.
I had Mavis Tire call my garage to come in and bleed an i8, and showed the tech the same process I did, 15 mins later, the i8 was back to their customer.
Just try it once time. I’d the cooling system is closed fully, this method should work every time.
@@DesignIsDestiny What i do is this, put the ebrke on, put the car in N, or D, or tke it out of Hybrid motor to get the engine tuning, turn the heat on full medium/full, once heat starts pumping thru the vents, in my opinion, thats when im confident all the air is bleed from the system, i do leave the res caps off for a few minutes as well.
Thats what I was taught in tech school and the only manufacture that it did not work on was Porsche/Audi/VW, they have a little solenoid you vent or open under the cowl at the wipers.
With BMW, this is what ives always done and never had an issue.
Undo every coolant pipe. Then treat every section of the system as an independent system. Ensure no obstructions. Then start re-connecting, joining section to section and retest. Then join the lot together.
Yes, this. While it will involve a lot of leak testing after re-assembly of sections, its the only way to be sure there are no blockages.
Very unnecessary to do it this way. The most effective method to troubleshooting is half splitting. You test the entire system in two separate sections at a time eliminating the side that was good until you are down to the faulty component. Doing pats method tests everything from the solid pipes back. If that worked then the problem is either in the front or the bleeding process. I would use your method only when coolant types were mixed and I wanted to clean all of the houses individually.
@@ronjenkins6342 the good ol' Binary Search
Connect own radiator water pump hoses. Join bmws system and bipass totally. Just to fault find
When doing the vacuum purge and refill, you might want to start with the front end jacked up a couple of feet to get the water to run downhill and also the air rise to the top
I'm so glad I can't afford a BMW!
I'd rather own a Tesla. lol
If u gonna own a BMW don't buy a i8. They get alpt commonly badly made.
U better off buy suv x5 or above. I personally recommend x7
they are all junk can't wait to get rid of mine
@@dragnet53 sorry but Tesla managed to screw up their cars with needless complexity. They replaced $40 door handles with $500 electric actuators. Now you cant get in if they fail. You cant open the door to get to the charger cover if the battery ever goes dead. They put every control into the Ipad they hot glued to the dash so you cant drive if that fails. They took the simplest drivetrain ever made and put it in a car that will cost a fortune to maintain over its life. On top of that, they are still learning how to design and build them.
thanks!! this was really good!! I came over from Samcrac to see your comments! it really makes it tough to trust dealerships that suggest replacing the engine with symptoms such as this! thanks again!
Except when they're correct, as in this case.
I also suggested the garden hose idea on Sams video, it works great for flushing out old coolant systems and checking for flow 🙂
What a wondeful guy Pat is. A free, honest appraisal of the overheating issues experianced by i8 owners.
Clearly explained. Best of luck on fixing the car SamCrac.
Thank you so much for the kind words!
You seem like the most nicest man on TH-cam
Thank you! I try to stay as positive as I can.
I just can’t see him getting mad at all 😂
@@unknowndesconocido8325 The last time I got mad, I was trying to flip a 3 egg omelet over in a pan. It wasn't cooked enough on the first side, so when I tried to flip it, it fell apart. I got pretty mad that day.
Before I write I comment I wanna state that I understand you understand the order of operations in the cooling system and very technical just by how you explain it/ I’m now a new subscriber! That’s so nice of you to reach out and help him and answer questions and your personal concerns on what you would look for. Absolutely wonderful and god bless you man!
Thank you!
The 15 dislikes are the 14 previous mechanics who couldn’t fix it ........... plus the previous owner 🌚
🤣
Lmao!
No they are people who hate click bait and recognize when somebody is spouting "todays prediction of the obvious" and claiming it as a fix !
Facts
And the multiple garages it went to for repair . BMW = Bring more wonga £££
Fabulous input Pat, I was thinking the exact same thing! In all my years of working on North American and Exotic Motors , I have yet to tell a customer "Engine Replacement" regarding "Over Heating" problem! This to me is a Blockage , Air or Mechanical !
Kind Regards,
J...
Thanks for the kind words. I agree!
The I8...that’s why BMW techs are sometimes richer than BMW owners
Funny thing is...your right (even if no joke intended). When I began at BMW in 90s there were half a dozen guys, usually only 40+, that were making well over 200k a year. Some more. Part of it is the basic fact we start high after being base certified, make proportionately more each major certification and annually in general. Next is the 'seniority' factor,, which is an unwritten factor nobody knows about until your both senior and damn good. All those factors cumulatively lead to a gross annual income of XXX, and corporate bonuses to really good senior master techs is almost blindly based on that gross number by people you've never met...so gross of 175k (already a good number) suddenly becomes inflated by a 10% bonus, plus most BMW employees have profit sharing, ira's, stocks, etc. Which for some with 20+ years in, can be another 50k a year.
Some guys like me had another career prior and degrees...so my BS in biology and MS in biochem started me off in a VERY different payscale than a young guy freshly finishing BMW's tech program. Reason I'm writing all this is in hopes other people encourage young people to go for it and they can have the same toys any doctor or lawyer has...but it'll take likely the equivalent amount of work and knowledge . Definitely nothing easy about it..
I am going to go with the simplest of sabotage methods . Prior to repo owner took rad cap off and dumped 2 quarts of rad stop leak or something that settled in the bottom of the rad. We will see when Sam gets the rad out. Hopefully his Step Mom isn't keeping Sam from his work. Another new Sub for you today. Just found you linked thru Sam
It’s when I see folks like you speak about things like diagnostics that remind me I’m a part changer, not a technician. The depth of knowledge some of you guys have is really impressive.
This is why in my country in south Europe we have a saying "a BMW owner is only happy twice, the day that he buys it and the day that he finally sells it."
That's what we say about Jaguar owners. 😂
The two best days in the life of ANY car.
I'm actually one of the techs that worked on the car. Replaced the oil filter housing, mechanical water pump, and one of the turbo aux coolant pumps. I tried bleeding this car for 3 days. That car needs an engine, the water pump and oil filter housing I took off were melted. The engine sounded fine so we tried to save it, there is a blockage in the engine itself somewhere and probably other places. I have nightmares of this car to this day. Eventually you will get oil pressure faults in the DME
Thank you for this valuable information. I really appreciate you reaching out to let us know what was going on.
That phrase right there "take it in for service" is why I won't buy a vehicle like the bmw. If that leaves me and my family stuck in the early 2000s then so be it.
My Mercedes w110 240d cooling system is difficult to bleed. I have to undo one bolt to allow the air out whilst topping up the radiator.
Exactly what I mean. Terrificly difficult. My Gmc doesn't even have a distinct for the transmission. My friend who was a tech for GM said they have to drive it for 10 minutes to get it up to temp and if it will take fluid then it wasn't full. Bad thing was he wasn't allowed by the dealership to drive it. So they let it run a few minutes then tried to fill. It's that kind of thing I have a real issue with. Other than that techs are worth the money as long as you can afford the parts.
Every modern car manufacturer overcomplicates and makes the car for planned obsolesence.
Nothing specific just about BMW .
They could have put a shop rag in it . down the line if they had a lift .
Personally, I think any car this complicated and quirky is poorly designed.
Correct, awesome designs are simple and reliable.
@@Teporame Part of that thinking comes from my background in engineering and quality control. BTW, I have a Datsun 240Z, simple and reliable.
I was thinking exactly the same thing, a cooling system should be simple and something like changing and bleeding coolant should be able to be done with basic tools, definitely a poor design.
You just talked about 99% of German engineering
@@ronjenkins6342 Thank you Wernher von Braun ...
Thanks Pat for jumping in to help. I am a huge fan of the i8 and hope to be able to afford one in the near future. Because of this I do a lot of research on the i8, its maintenance and its flaws and in doing so, I saw this situation with his overheating i8 . I was going to suggest for him to try to reach out to you, but you came to the rescue. I can wait to see if he got it work properly. 🙂
Thank you so much for the kind words. Fortunately, Sam and I have spoken routinely and are trying to put our heads together to fix this problem, albeit virtually (for me).
My thoughts are definitely a blockage, I'd take the coolant lines a part and verify no blockages.
Same here. I would look for a tennis ball shoved in a radiator line or another act of sabotage. KISS it (keep it simple stupid) . Pull every easy to get to line aff and check for blockages. Get a hose diagram and make sure they are routed correctly. Would of had the radiator taken to a shop and boiled out before they blew it up and it needed to be replaced. Pull the thermostat out and see if the car still overheated. Before hooking up the radiator hoses with the thermostat out I would have ran a hose in one hose and out the other to make sure the entire system had flow. Sometimes when you overthink things you overlook the obvious.
Good to see a big TH-camr getting help from a smaller TH-camr. This needs to happen more. Everyone support and help everyone. Just because we are small it does not mean we do not know what we are doing.
Thank you. It's been an honor to work both with Sam and Rich Rebuilds this year, as they both actually reached out to me. Me trying to get ahold of Sam was just a good story. Checked out your channel and like what I see. Subbed!
@@PatsGarageOnline Thanks for the sub. Glad you got a chance to work with them. I met Rich at SEMA in 2019. He is super nice and a cool guy.
If the temp sensor is at the top of the circuit it strikes me that'd be a good place to bleed it.
Sadly, it's not easy to get to. It's at the front of the block, against the firewall with the passenger compartment. The service manual indicates that the entire rear subframe needs to be dropped to replace that sensor.
@@PatsGarageOnline how about installing a remote bleeder?
@@PatsGarageOnline it sounds to me like bmw was in a bit of a rush to get this car onto the market and didn’t think that if the engine has higher cooling lines in the engine than the radiator they will end up with air pockets at the highest point. Is there anywhere you can have a bleeder valve installed. Any air trapped in the system is going to make the water pump basically useless
@@MrDemonchild71 no they intentionally planned it that way - over- engineered (as Scotty Kilmer says) too many stupid sensors, on a computer, and by someone with an edumacation with no actual hands on working on it. when 1 piece of plastic breaks - torch it
@@stephenbartram7377 you're totally right. You know if an actual hands on mechanic at least had some input in the design of modern cars they wouldn't have half the stupid problems they have. All it would take is a tiny bleeder valve near the sensor
I had a similar overheating issue with my 2004 Mustang. Everyone said that the head gasket had failed, even though the car ran fine and wasn't using coolant and there was no coolant evident in the oil or exhaust. It never indicated an overheat on the temp gauge or ses light, but the cooling fan would stay on and obd data showed temps as high as 107C. It also wouldn't put out heat from the vents. I had bled the system in the factory recommended procedure. I bled it again, but had the nose of the car on ramps so the engine and all coolant paths would be lower than the bleed bolt of the bypass hose. Angling the car worked, as all the air bubbles could be heard gurgling through the bypass. No more overheating, and the hvac puts out great heat.
That's awesome. I also received a couple more positive messages saying that this technique worked for them. I put it in my follow up video that I just released. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Your space shuttle needs an entire team of engineers to keep it going. Holy overcomplicated crapbox batman.
I agree. It's insane.
Exactly. Why in the world would anyone build a car with high dry spots you need to run a vac on just to get the coolant system cleared? Why no bleeder on the high spot? Buses from back in the 60's and 70's had huge cooling systems, lines running everywhere, and they had valves and bleeders
Sounds like the best solution is to lift up the radiator cap and drive a different car under the cap.
BMW= Buy More Wrenches.
@@dannycunniff3072 because vacuum bleeding is not that difficult.
Thank you for your input, Pat. I have been following Sam on his quest to get his i8 running.It is a common theme among engineers and designers nowadays, to add layers of complexity to manage otherwise simple systems. The problem is, that the public feels forced to purchase products that are not very user-friendly, but are also a nightmare to diagnose when problems arise. I designed and built machine tooling and repaired machinery for decades. What I found was that, the fewer the moving parts, the easier it was to train someone to use the device. Also, malfunctions were much easier to diagnose and fix. I enjoyed your no-nonsense approach in this video.
Thank you for the kind words and for sharing your experience. I am a simple DIY guy that enjoys working on cars, and this car has fascinated me because of its complex systems. But it certainly not a car for the DIYer to continue to own after the warranty is expired, in my opinion. It's just super complex for a one-man garage.
as much as a pain in the butt as these increasingly complicated mecha-tronics are for car repair, they are also kind of inevitable as we try and squeeze the last joules of energy with less and less waste product/pollution from burning million year old sunlight. And in engines closer and closer to the edge of safe operating tolerances as far as heat and weight. I'm still waiting for the old Crosby style brazed sheet metal COBRA engines to make a comeback. Easy to get an engine block to operating temp when its only 18 Gauge steel :/
Whenever we have had a coolant problem, we just use coloured food dye, put in the expansion bottle, and run the engine, then go to the furthest hose/components and see if you have coloured water? If not work forward until you find the blockage/problem, just like they do in medicine
I like that idea!
At least that way you will see if there’s a blockage, it’s just a process of elimination, if there is coloured water, then it can only be electrical or mechanical, the waterways are ok.
Pat I agree. Sam needs to take apart the car more completely. I personally would pull each coolant line on the high temp circuit. 1 that would allow all the coolant to drain and 2 you can check each circuit system for blockages. If the coolant temperature sensor is the highest point in the cooling system, I would pull it out and see if air comes out before the water to test that theory. I wouldn't be confident in this car until a root cause is firmly determined - thats just the engineer in me! Subscribed!
Thanks for joining the channel! I agree that pulling the coolant hoses would be very wise, and allow for sequential testing of each component and line. I wish the coolant sensor wasn't between the block and the firewall. The only way to get to it is dropping the sub-frame with the engine attached. Drilling and tapping another hole to the water jacket might be the only way to truly fix this air pocket problem that plagues the i8's.
That was a great explanation! Sounds like a poorly designed cooling system.
So many i8 owners having overheating issues. Surprised they didn’t recall
Just ask Owners of a Delorean... Cooling System is as bad as from Sams i8.
You're not likely to ever get a *well* designed cooling system for a mid-engine car... that said, this design sounds like it's really bad...
Very simple:
1) make sure no blockages. Make sure fluid is flowing from one end to the other
2) bleed the system thoroughly.
3) replace radiator and water pump
4) check for leaks. Repeat bleeding procedure.
5) ensure all sensors are working as expected.
This whole story is a very strong recommendation for buying anything BMW.
Anything BUT...
To me . . . the old school way I was taught to bleed all air from a coolant system of any car was to . . . "While Parked" after bringing the engine up to full temp . . . turn the heater temp dial up to absolute hot and turn the fan up as high as it will go while keeping a constant eye on the overflow bottle and keep it full. Then let it run, "Take the car out on the road" leave the heater set like this even if it's summer and take the car out on a 20 minute drive and stop every few minutes . . . keep the overflow bottle full you dont want the overflow bottle sucking any air by going empty . . . . while doing this. Someone could have dumped pure anti freeze into the system without mixing it and gummed/clogged it up.
There has to be a blockage somewhere in Sam's car. Break out a thermal imager and check the lines while it's running.
I didn't know about this chanel till now and I'm glad to see the car community working together to help each other... I'm for sure subscribed from now on. 🍻
Thanks!
Few things are more expensive than a cheap BMW.
I don't know. Bought my 1996 328I from a impound lot for $600 and have less than $2500 total in it after 9 years of use.
BMWs are made for rich people who don't keep their cars for long, and buy the new model as soon as it comes out. Or ,when a problem like this comes up, simply trade in the car and get a new one. They're not really made to be repaired
.
Egg zack lee!
Nah im still getting it
After watching all of your videos, I have opted for the bmw extra warranty, I love the car and don't want anything to go wrong..🙏
What do you think Sam should try in order to fix his BMW i8?
Light a match and carefully insert it into the gas tank.
🤣🤣🤣
I think he should load it onto his trailer and bring it over to your place for a complete overhaul.
@@ro63rto Sadly, my garage is full 😁
Hello Pat
Just curious if water would flow from one aluminium coolant hose (under body) through the engine, and out the other hose, given that there thermostat would be closed. Is it not ECU operated ( think I remember you covered that on another video)
Thanks again Pat.
LOVE these collaboration videos! This is next generation media that totally blows apart traditional cable and tv.
I agree! So glad we have TH-cam to be able to do this!
Facts!
It should be called a “I8nt” for I ain’t buying one 😝
LOL!
It’s like the movie I-Robot this i8 went rogue
Why do you think BMW called it an i8 = "I hate" Oversight..!?
super funny
Hahaha
I don't know about the BMW design at all, but experienced something similar with overheating due to a bad casting on a GM V8 where the flow was restricted due to a blockage in the system. Hadn't watched your channel before, but appreciate the way you lay out the video with captions for the different sections. Wish everyone did that!
Thanks for the kind words. Yes, any engine can have a restriction and I would assume that if the i8 was known for this, that it would overheat with no air in the system. So far, no BMW i8 owners have come forward to indicate that this happens when the coolant system is working properly.
Wow, what the hell were those engineers thinking?
Glad you two connected on this issue. I think if Sam can take his time and methodically go through the process, he should be able to get great results with your advice.
Thank you! My fingers are crossed he can get to the bottom of this.
I just want this effin car fixed ... subbed and liked . All the best for 2021 🇬🇧
Thanks for joining the channel!
Great team on it!
Love your basic down to earth solutions, waterhose, check for sabotage on the electric pump, massaging the hoses old style. I would recommend checking the old radiator very thoroughly and cutting it up too.
Thank you. Sam let me know there's something going on with the radiator, so look forward to his next video update.
@@PatsGarageOnline Overheating issues can be caused by a blockage in the exhaust system as well, worth checking if the Catalytic Converter is in good nick.
BMW "Replace the engine"
Sounds like something Apple would say..... Buy a brand new phone because we refuse to fix it......
Wouldn't it be funny, in a very sad way, that after replacing the engine there's still an overheating issue. Wonder how many times they'd replace the engine before nailing the air purging procedure?
Along with Pat's advice, I would raise the front of car two feet to help gravity feed air towards the coolant tank in the front.
👍🏼
The cooling system on my BMW E-46 is just like it. It's a pain in the ass to remove trapped air.
Poor poor design .it shouldn’t be so hard
I have serviced many BMW cooling systems NEVER AN I8, and I have never had issues. The "old school" method works fine. E46 if it isn't bleeding, start thinking head gasket or cracked head. I understand I8 is a fancy system and so forth and so on, but I don't see any issues bleeding normal BMW's from the 70s to the 2010+ as being required to vacuum bleed. Probably well over 200 BMW cooling systems serviced.
G'day m8....i must say the clarity and clear explination on the Whole water issue with the I8 was layed out really well. Samcrac hopefully will use this to his advantage and sort this great sports car out....cheers for the vid from a car nut, way, way way. Downunder!!...aka Australia
Thank you very much for the kind words and for stopping by the channel!
1st time Ive seen you. Im digging youre knowledge and professional delivery. Good content, subbed.
Thank you so much and welcome to the channel!
I got a suggestion for this channel from TH-cam. One of the clearest explanations I've heard, thanks for helping Sam!
Thanks for that feedback. I think this is the first time TH-cam has ever recommended one of my videos like this.
Replace the engine? That is like Apple recommending you to buy brand new device for tiny problems.
They do lol
It’s like saying your phone battery died so buy a new one
@@adalmartinez2340 not true
Right? Lol
@@AnnaKuznetzova88 have you seen videos of Luis rossman they wanted a kid to pay 1200 for repairs when the only thing wrong with his computer was a ribbon cable worth 20$
Good advice. I have a love/hate affair with BMW’s and Porsche’s from owning and wrenching on them while I was stationed in Germany. When they’re running right, they’re awesome, but when they screw up, they’re an over engineered nightmare! Adjusting valve lash on an E21 323i is a prime example as the lash has to be EXACTLY to the amount called for. It’s not like on an American car where you can do it from say .010-.015, if the manual says .008 it has to be dead on .008 or you have problems.
Great video and suggestions.
I love vehicles that make my v10 Touareg seem simple.
Thanks! LOL!
Great video Pat. I'm a Samcrac viewer and found your awesome video offering great experience. I've never seen a car overheating issue this complicated before.
Thanks for checking out this channel.
Parking the car on a steep incline with the front higher than the engine also makes it easier to get the air out of cooling systems
I WAS GONNA SAY THAT! Lift the front end during the coolant replacement process
I made this suggestion to Samcrac a couple of days ago.
Its got to be an air pocket that is stopping circulation and getting the front end higher will do the trick.
Lets hope he tries this and saves himself a lot of aggro.
I was really expecting you to say - park it on a steep incline, let the piece of shit run off over the cliff then go get a car that works, obviously not a BMW!
@@phildragonslayer8127 unfortunately Sam lives in florida... not many inclines around. Though there is the Sunshine Skyway bridge in Tampa! that is pretty steep
I'm so surprised that even a BMW shop was not able to diagnose this properly. Seems like it is getting harder and harder to find good mechanics. Awesome explanation of what is going on.
I was thinking someone could have put a ping pong ball into one of the lines.
I was thinking a marble or two that would lodge in the coolant passages of the block.
I thought the same thing! Full of air to move around, yet obstructive with pressure.
@@ClarenceDoskocil Yeah, I bought an LT1 engine from a salvage yard, and it had a block heater installed. I heard one guy at the yard say is that the engine that overheated. Anyway, I pulled the block heater out, and there was a frost plug jammed between two cylinders. Whoever put it in, just pushed the frost plug in, without removing it. So anything obstructing flow in there will cause overheating.
I haven't slept in 3 days, I hope you guys get this fixed so I can de-zombify myself & fix my own air problems in my deep well pump. Good luck & cheers.
A used bmw is like girlfriends, easy to get, but hard to keep ( them out of the shop)
Finally! Crack needs to stop screwing around and bypass the coolant system with the garden hose trick you noted. That will tell him if the motor is free of obstruction and is flowing fluid. If yes, then he can chase problems elsewhere.
Original owner is probably sitting back watching these videos eating popcorn
LOL
Those big funnels that hold coolant work really well, shaking the car up and down and side to side also helps, crank the heat up to make sure the heater core doesn't have air in it. I've done countless full engine swaps when i used to work for a privately owned shop that only fixed municipal cars, mostly crown vics. We've never had a car come back for overheating. And yes massaging the hoses works better then most people think haha.
Sounds like German over engineering at it's finest to me
Glad to see this video cause he is spot on. A small change to system would cause chaos . I have seen bolts and rubber balls shoved in hoses , even dumped a ton of stop leak in a car to plug up coolant system.
Poorly engineered if the coolant is that difficult to service. I'll stick with my G30 and steer clear of this mid engine nightmare.
I'm enjoying the content Sam pumps out. Thank you for being able to lend him a hand! personally, there are some BMW's I like, but I'd never buy one... I'm an AMG guy but... I do have a soft spot for the E63 M6 coupe, such a shame it's a time bomb.
I had an i8 with a front suspension noise and after taking it into the dealer under warranty, the dealer replaced my engine. It seems like SOP.
Wait what
What's sop?
@@ant7699 standard operating procedures
That wasn't a front suspension noise if a mid mounted engine replacement cured your noise!
My i8 brother Pat! You surely helped me on my channel with the AC compressor I had replaced! You knew before BMW did!
Sometimes I get lucky Eric!
OMG Another Step Mom reference on another channel? LOL!!!
I even have an old school tool that you hook up to a garden hose and air line simultaneously. You can use a little low pressure (10-15psi) to clear out your water jacket, radiator, etc. I'd definitely make sure there's good flow through separate parts of the system before putting things back together.
Subbed. The only engine vids I have on my channel are the ones I created the channel for back in 1997. At the time I was rebuilding six cylinder Landrovers. Only 12,000 were ever made with the Land Rover engine. The one in my vid is a 1967 Carawagon. All this to say I love anything to do with cars and engines. Hence the sub. Great vids.
Hi folks. Great to follow I8 issues. As a heating engineer for many years in Northern Ireland i specialized in problematic water/coolant systems with flow/blockage issues in buildings. It seems you have similar, but in a car.
Few thoughts.. Remove all coolant pipework for visual check for sabotage blockage as system does not appear to have full circulation. Also wouldn't be surprised if radiator has accidental/sabotage blockage.
Removal of air in any heating/cooling system whether a car or building is absolutely paramount for correct function/flow.
Thank you for the insightful comment and recommendations.
Its a head gasket. It was blowing water out the coolant reservoir and it ended up cracking the radiator. There is a lot of pressure building up and its not all from overheating. I did notice he was using plain water during the testing and plain water cooks of easily. I will assume the proper coolant is a special formula that doesn't boil easily. Evans coolant is a special no water coolant made for racing and doesn't boil very easily. The aluminum heads easily warp from low coolant or coolant thats not bled right. Vapor/air pocket can create hots spots in the head. Those gases building up in the coolant need to be checked for hydrocarbon gases by using an emissions tester that is used to check emissions from the exhaust. Some kind of testing device would need to be rigged up to do this unless they make one for it. Many cars are engineered to fail. Do you see any engineering flaws in the cooling system? I would say it needs some bleeder valves at high parts of the engine to help get those air pockets out easily.
Great analysis. Once he gets the additional parts for the repair and actually bleeds the system, I look forward to seeing if he is able to continue troubleshooting for a possible head gasket issue. I didn't want to suggest that so soon, without being able to get him past the air pocket at the top of the water jacket as this is so hard to get out. Dealers are used to doing the vacuum bleed procedure up to 10 times in a row before it will actually bleed. And, that's the dealer. There is definitely a design flaw with the high temperature coolant system in this car.
There’s no white smoke / steam like you’d expect with a blown headgasket between the combustion chamber and the waterways though.
The compression test het did tels different
Can he perhaps check if theirs any combustion gases going through the cooling system ?
I'm betting it's a bad passage in the engine , or radiator.
That little 3 cylinder sounds louder than my 520d! If Sam suspects sabotage, it would be worth doing a flow test on every element of the system. Adding something to the coolant to cause a blockage would have been the easiest route to cause issues. I've seen equipment from repossession auctions being drained of all fluids and flushed prior to use, especially oils, as it was common to find cutting paste in there.
Sam should check for exhaust fumes leaking through a crack in the head into the coolant.
As a BMW owner myself, I feel this mans pain. I had a CEL on my F10 ActiveHybrid 5 come on indicating an issue with the fuel pressure sensor. The Indy shop had replaced the tank fuel pump but reused the sensor. Sensor went bad in a few months. Replaced it. CEL kept happening. And they were at a complete loss as to why. The car was then showing evap leak codes in addition to fuel tank pressure too high etc etc. Eventually, they ran out of things to try and gave up. I ended up downloading ISTA+, teaching myself how to use it, going into the service menu functions and reading SB docs. Turns out the sensor needed to be calibrated. Did that myself. Ran diagnostic tests, fixed the issue with software. These cars are complicated. Sometimes, needlessly so.
However...
When they are healthy, they truly are a joy to drive. Maintain them well. Fix small issues before they become big ones. Everything is fine. 120k miles on mine and going strong. Regular oil changes every 5000 miles and maintenance. Haters will always hate. Live and let live.
(Just avoid the stealership if you can)
I appreciate that you took the time in order to diagnose and correct the problem with the fuel pressure sensor. Not a lot of people would take that chance. I'm glad you're able to correct the problem with the car and avoid the stealership. I try to help my viewers do the same for the most part. But some of these more complicated issues are just too hard for the average DIY guy to do.
This issue comes due to
Raditor broken,
Thermostat , he need to remove the spring and check (thermostat not opening)
they did that, in the last video on sams channel.
@@kenabi The last thing that happened in the last video is that the radiator broke. They didn’t know about it.
@@TotalFreshness they tried the last procedure (involving checking the thermostat) and decided to replace it (even if they hadn't in that one). and then it broke on them. so yes, this was all covered in the last video.
A very logical overview of the problem and possible solutions. I favour the blockage theory as how can a BMW dealer get it so wrong.
Definitely classic BMW over engineering
I agree I think someone either switched the pump hoses or just put in a blockage somewhere, like plastic cap with a hole restricting the water flow. Other guess is they used one of those stop leaks when the radiator leaked.
Too bad automakers don't provide a "high point vent" in the cooling system to help bleed air.
Some of my old Saabs did. One in the heater core, one at the thermostat housing and If I remember right, one at the top of the radiator.
I mean why not just splice one in on the highest hose, never have this problem again.
Great video Pat, thanks for helping out Sam. Glad the old school methods are still applicable in modern cars, having used this method before of massaging water hoses I can vouch for it, my Dad taught me. 👍👍
Thanks! My dad taught me the same. He was a mechanic in the 50s.
I'll stay with my Dodge.. cheap parts easy to get to😎
I mentioned in Samrac's video that I believed the system was clogged, possibly from the wrong coolant being used. I know that my Fiat 500 Abarth's manual warns against mixing HOAT coolant with OAT coolant and that it could cause irreversible damage.
I'm so glad my car's cooling system isn't anywhere near as complicated. You drain it, refill it, run the engine for a few minutes to bleed the air out of the system, then top it off a couple of times. No vacuum procedure required.
I have heard so many BMW horror stories. I’d never buy one.
True! Thank you for saying this
I agree its air in the system, I used to be a huge enthusiast of a certain mid engine car. One method of getting air out of the system that can help is too use a steep hill. Bleed the system with the cars nose pointed at the sky.
Somebody sabotaged it by putting a metal ball bearing in a hose connection. Not big enough to restrict flow but big enough to restrict the volume of flow.
And this is why running a garden hose through the lines to check for flow makes some sense. One of those front to rear lines being crimped for example. Or, something floating around in the system. But, the radiator failing under low pressure as it did make me think that there was a vacuum leak there and never a good bleed.
Somebody mentioned a bleeder screw. Man, ALL of the old BMWS I've worked on all had coolant bleed screws. Very simple to use. I find it hard to believe that this car doesn't have one but instead requires crazy multi-step vacuum bleed equipment.
loving the content, you should do car reviews!
he has the best i8 channel. i have learned a lot about my i8 from him
Back in the day when I worked on race cars it was common for this to happen as the top of the block is higher than the water tank. The solution is to jack the front of the car up really high so the top of the rad or the top of the water tank is above the height of the top of the block. It made a massive difference in bleeding. Also if all fails remove the thermostat and bleed without it. Another trick was to fill the system using hot water (80c+). We would boil a really large pot of water and the pour it in using a funnel and that was also a massive help as it opened the stat up... then as soon as 4-5L of water in start the engine. Vac bleeders are not always the solution....
So is this what Jimmy Neutron is doing these days..
I really don’t know that much about I ate although I am surprised that there are not more three cylinder cars today considering how awesome the fire fly was and how efficient they can be! It seems as though Sam crack and friends were forgetting about it primarily being an electric vehicle, the engine seems to be more of a generator than an engine in the conventional sense. This leads me to believe that there are many passages for cooling the battery and electrical components that nobody mentioned at all. This would make sense that vacuum bleeding would be so hard, that said I am surprised that BMW have not added additional fittings to make it easier or some sort of BMW vacuum bleed system that cost $10,000 for shops to buy… Thanks for the videos, cheers!
Thanks for the comment. The hybrid batteries are actually cooled by AC refrigerant lines coming off the AC Compressor. The electric motor and several other components are cooled using the low temperature liquid coolant circuit. The high temp circuit that cools the engine also cools the turbo, provides cabin heat (except in electric mode, then an auxiliary electric heater turns on in line), etc. The car was conceived during the era of finding creative ways to reduce CO2 and noise emissions, while decreasing gas consumption. But battery tech was very poor at the time, or it likely would have been all electric. So, here's what we got. And, after the warranty is out on mine, it's out of my garage.
Man I love my Porsche 993 right now.
Porsche definitely knows how to build rear/mid engine cars with front radiators that don't have this much trouble with coolant.
last of the air cooled 😬
I like the hose idea. When Sam talked about sabotage, that was the first thing I thought of doing.
Scotty Kilmer said buy Toyota,Lexus,Honda..the rest is BS..!!!
Lexus is made by Toyota. Just like Acura is made by Honda. Infiniti made by Nissan. These companies where trying to get around the stigma in the 1980s and 1990s that Honda and Toyota were cheap Japanese rustbuckets with zero luxury, and appeal to middle class buyers.
Also Acura
All the time watching Samcrac's video I was thinking exactly that about obstructions - it's old-school method for things like blocked heater cores - try running hose through to ensure to get flow out the other side. Sabotage could be as simple as a small rag stuffed into the end of a hose then re-attached.