I truly believe that constantly pushing carb fueling on the bike degrades your glycogen stores or at least your ability to tap into all of it, coupled with reduced ability to switch to lipid oxidation. I just don't see it as 'endurance' if you're not training your body to 'endure'.
Kyle is so nice to Nate and Jonathan! They’ll interrupt him to talk about themselves (while he’s talking about the relevant research and science-the stuff he’s studied professionally his entire adult life) and instead of patronizing them he treats them with respect and even manages to pull some valuable things out of their personal stories. I bet he’s a great teacher and I love it when he’s on the podcast. I do wish Nate and Jonathan would let him talk more, though, rather than interact with him as if they are co-experts.
Always so good when we can pick Kyle's brain and instantly benefit without decades of study & experience. Always so fun when Nate shares his personal regimens:)
I’m 57 and recently did my first Ironman in Tallinn on zero carbs having transitioned gradually to a very low carb ketovore diet over the last year. This was between 10.5 and 11 hours of endurance, I was 8th out of 41 in Age Group gaining qualification for the Ironman World Championships in Nice next September. Endurance athletes don’t need carbs if they are fat adapted. Even if not fat adapted the glucose needed is not for muscle glycogen but to maintain blood glucose levels. Prof Tim Noakes latest studies put the amount at between 5 and 15g of carbs per hour.
Jonathan said this in the other episode about sodium citrate that it’s “expensive” but that’s compared to table salt which is dirt cheap. I paid $12 for a 1.5 lb bag of sodium citrate in 2022 and still have it today. I think calling it expensive is disingenuous.
disingenuous is too negative a word for it. Jonathan is not a disingenuous person. He obviously takes the stewardship of what he does very seriously. At worst it is a calculation error
I'd need to dig, but I'm almost positive that the study that shows 1/.8 being optimal, the advantage over 2/1 was very marginal. I remember my take away being that anywhere in the zone of 1/1 to 2/1 was going to be fine.
BTW I was recently listening to a sports science podcast which was saying that the 2:1 or 1:1 ratio only really comes into play once gut intake reaches 60gm/h. In other words the fructose/liver utilization is like a back stop for when the gut is maxed out. If you are ingesting under 60gm/h then the fructose contribution in negligible. Sorry can't recall the article or podcast.
New cyclist and signed up for the SS base program. Having watched or read a lot recently, how is VO2max trained during base with this program to increase the "ceiling" so FTP continues increasing? Thanks.
I've been making my own 2:1 Malto:Fructose mix since I first heard about it on the TR Forum a few years ago. Everyone keeps arguing over the dosage, but I've found 2:1 super easy because the math is simple and I can just do 1/4 cup increments per bottle depending on how heavy I want the carbs to be. It also reduces the sweetness level, which helps me avoid GI distress. Also, you're looking good Nate!
Unrelated question that could be q podcast topic: A couple of my friends are doing the carnivore diet. They claim endurance athletes thrive on it. However, I told them to send me a link with a Tour rider who does it. Have you ever taken a deep dive on whether or not carnivore diet is healthy?
You talk about health and quality proteins and then say u getting like over 100g proteins from shit dairy products like greek yoghurt or low fat milk. Lactose free lol... Lactose is your least problem with consuming diary
Karl's enthusiasm is infectious! But I honestly think these video's are too long. Too many words. While i love the chat i really would like to see something shorter, perhaps a bit more scripted?
I like table sugar at a 1:1 because it takes little brain power to measure out 80-90 grams. Easy peasy. Also, sodium citrate is not super expensive. Salt is cheap, sodium citrate is just a little more expensive
I truly believe that constantly pushing carb fueling on the bike degrades your glycogen stores or at least your ability to tap into all of it, coupled with reduced ability to switch to lipid oxidation. I just don't see it as 'endurance' if you're not training your body to 'endure'.
Kyle is so nice to Nate and Jonathan! They’ll interrupt him to talk about themselves (while he’s talking about the relevant research and science-the stuff he’s studied professionally his entire adult life) and instead of patronizing them he treats them with respect and even manages to pull some valuable things out of their personal stories. I bet he’s a great teacher and I love it when he’s on the podcast. I do wish Nate and Jonathan would let him talk more, though, rather than interact with him as if they are co-experts.
Always so good when we can pick Kyle's brain and instantly benefit without decades of study & experience. Always so fun when Nate shares his personal regimens:)
I’m 57 and recently did my first Ironman in Tallinn on zero carbs having transitioned gradually to a very low carb ketovore diet over the last year. This was between 10.5 and 11 hours of endurance, I was 8th out of 41 in Age Group gaining qualification for the Ironman World Championships in Nice next September. Endurance athletes don’t need carbs if they are fat adapted. Even if not fat adapted the glucose needed is not for muscle glycogen but to maintain blood glucose levels. Prof Tim Noakes latest studies put the amount at between 5 and 15g of carbs per hour.
Nate is really passionate about this subject. It's great to see! Great content by Kyle as always
Jonathan said this in the other episode about sodium citrate that it’s “expensive” but that’s compared to table salt which is dirt cheap. I paid $12 for a 1.5 lb bag of sodium citrate in 2022 and still have it today. I think calling it expensive is disingenuous.
Especially if you compare it to the cost of sodium tabs/fizz
disingenuous is too negative a word for it. Jonathan is not a disingenuous person. He obviously takes the stewardship of what he does very seriously. At worst it is a calculation error
This is such a fine episode. Thank you!
Are we gonna skip how he said "yeah I'm just gonna drop by Keegans house and borrow a bike" 😮😂
Why not use white sugar since it is sucrose (which is glucose and fructose)?
Yep, can be done but the sweetness can be a factor over longer events for many.
I'd need to dig, but I'm almost positive that the study that shows 1/.8 being optimal, the advantage over 2/1 was very marginal. I remember my take away being that anywhere in the zone of 1/1 to 2/1 was going to be fine.
BTW I was recently listening to a sports science podcast which was saying that the 2:1 or 1:1 ratio only really comes into play once gut intake reaches 60gm/h. In other words the fructose/liver utilization is like a back stop for when the gut is maxed out. If you are ingesting under 60gm/h then the fructose contribution in negligible. Sorry can't recall the article or podcast.
New cyclist and signed up for the SS base program. Having watched or read a lot recently, how is VO2max trained during base with this program to increase the "ceiling" so FTP continues increasing? Thanks.
what about just sugar sucrose which is 1:1 glucose and fructose? Its very sweet and takes a lot of getting used to the taste but it seems to work well
Has anyone made their own gels -specifically the gelatin-like Maurten?
I've been making my own 2:1 Malto:Fructose mix since I first heard about it on the TR Forum a few years ago. Everyone keeps arguing over the dosage, but I've found 2:1 super easy because the math is simple and I can just do 1/4 cup increments per bottle depending on how heavy I want the carbs to be. It also reduces the sweetness level, which helps me avoid GI distress.
Also, you're looking good Nate!
@kevinkwmiller
Is it gram for gram the same for maltodextrin and fructose (eg, 40 g maltodextrin: 20 g fructose)?
Unrelated question that could be q podcast topic: A couple of my friends are doing the carnivore diet. They claim endurance athletes thrive on it. However, I told them to send me a link with a Tour rider who does it. Have you ever taken a deep dive on whether or not carnivore diet is healthy?
Lol, I was wondering how Nate got 40g of protein out of a “serving” of yogurt
You use a really big bowl. 😊
I consume 205 grams of carbs per hour for a 2 hour ride, is that a high intake per hour?
No.
YES!
maybe
The magic of the internet you got all the answers
It's a lot for sure. I don't know if that would even be utilized. And way too much if you do it for zone 2 rides.
why do I feel that science is gonna figure out that 1:1 glucose to fructose is ideal...like in just regular sugar.
I train on the minimum glucose method a la Tim Noakes. Much healthier & better for you in the long run. 😅
Diabetic Glucose tablets are Old School
You talk about health and quality proteins and then say u getting like over 100g proteins from shit dairy products like greek yoghurt or low fat milk. Lactose free lol... Lactose is your least problem with consuming diary
Karl's enthusiasm is infectious! But I honestly think these video's are too long. Too many words. While i love the chat i really would like to see something shorter, perhaps a bit more scripted?
this sort of advice is reckless and is going to end up giving lots of normal, or non pro people type 2 diabetes in the long run.
It is absolutely not. There is a difference between consuming 120g/hr while sitting at a desk versus when exercising.
Clueless!
@@matthewbasile9417 keep telling yourself that. we’ll talk when you need to start injecting yourself with insulin daily just to stay alive 😉
I like table sugar at a 1:1 because it takes little brain power to measure out 80-90 grams. Easy peasy. Also, sodium citrate is not super expensive. Salt is cheap, sodium citrate is just a little more expensive