If you look at how much more exspecive Sodium Citrate is than Table salt it seems expencive. But when you take into account how little you use and how much more it then costs per bottle, it's a negligible price difference. About $0.10 per bottle vs $0.01 per bottle. Add to that your 100g of carbs at about $0.30, you have $0.40 per bottle. vs about $2-3 per bottle for off the shelf mix.
The Hammer Nutrition Endurolytes Fizz I use are Sodium Bicarbonate, which looks to be pretty cheap, if you wanted to do your own. I'm a gravel racer so for most of the time I'm going over 3 hrs I separate my hydration and fuel by using a hydro pack. I throw a few of those Fizz tablets in 3L and it pressurizes the pack so when I bite on the valve the water just shoots in to my mouth. The effect diminishes as the pack empties, but it it works for quite a while.
Fwiw: I'm 67 years old, and back on the bike after about 15 years off. I currently ride around 1000 miles/mo (give or take... more in the summer, less in the winter). No racing, just riding. I have been experimenting for the past year or two on fueling, and I mix the carb ratio: ⅔ maltodextrin, and ⅓ dextrose (by carbs, not by weight). I put 60g of carb "mix" in one 500ml bottle, and add 2g sodium citrate, and 50mg caffeine (helps with carb uptake). I take 2 additional small plastic bags on the ride, each with 60g of mix of those 4 items. Then around 150g carbs in food. My target is around 60g/hr carbs, with a relatively even intake of food and drink. Lots of plain water too, though that amount depends on temperature. 100 mile ride / ~5 ½ hours: around 330g carbs. Maltodextrin, dextrose, sodium citrate and caffeine - all very inexpensive in bulk.
I don’t think it ultimately matters if you’re keeping to 60g/hr and below, but using maltodextrin and dextrose is pointless. They’re both glucose and are using the same uptake pathway. If you like the flavor of them together, then great, but you could consolidate to just one or the other. The idea of the carb ratios is to include a proportional amount (and there’s debate on the proportion) of fructose to provide another pathway through the liver.
Great content as always; I haven't been able to find the video with the Home-made Energy drink recipie, will you be able to link it? Trying to dip my toes into mixing my own.
It is not easy to get all aspects of this, but you are doing a good job. I have twice experienced that I don't hit a wall in shorter competitions when I have eaten a salty meal 2-3 hours before the race, but I never thought anything about it. Until now. I ate super salty pasta, and felt marvelous in that 30 minutes competition. Not sure where to go from this exept trying to eat salty meals. I think a guide would be nice, but I see some issues with that as well.. Thanks anyways!
Seen the title... preview the image... I am not going to watch it! will wait for tomorrow's TrainerRoad workout ;) it will be the sweetest sweetspot for a while
towards the end of a long hard ride in the heat, my quads will get a sore feeling when pushing beyond zone 2/3. i imagine if i ignore that soreness and keep pushing it will turn into cramps because its a familiar feeling from the few times i'v cramped in the past from various physical activities. i would be surprised if increasing my sodium intake would keep my legs strong to the end. i assume when someone pushes beyond their limits the body will inevitably break down no matter what you feed it. to me its just muscle soreness from stress during a ride. now go out and do that same activity and it will get easier and easier with less fuel intake even. the main cause of cramping i think is, how hard the work is compared to what youre accustomed to, is your body fully recovered, fuel before and during the ride, and the external elements like weather that can stress the body. i wouldnt put electrolyte as the main cause of cramps.
Sodium citrate is the way to go i've been using it for years, it almost doesn't change the taste and in my country is pretty cheap its like 6-7usd for a kilogram.
I usually do the Prof T. Noakes titration method for 2.5h+ rides with 1g/bottle RealSalt but lately I’m taking in Nothing on 2.5h or less rides with a new PR 😮so I’m not getting slower. I did change to OutLast clothing which absolutely dropped my temperature down noticeably.
@@DDai-qd8ukYES, great pricing too. I went with white Jersey gloves & socks in OutLast & got their R4 EVO white 2xBoa shoes as the black pavement is scorching here in the South. It has to be 10 degrees cooler… it’s big time noticeable. Everything fits normal but Jersey is real tight but a lot of stretch. Shoes might actually be 1/2-1 size big but fits my wide normal American forefoot well & have toe wiggle room which probably is cooler too. I’m using Castelli shorts but think you might upsize their shorts but then they have short length options as you do have them on your knee caps.
I have seen how much sugar improves performance and RPE and I am always trying to convince my mountain bike friends, but I can't help but worry about the damage it could do as far as leaky gut, cancer, intestinal problems, heart disease. My hope is that the muscles vacuum it all up, but I'm not fully convinced that it's not also killing me, 160 grams in a bottle, damn
Dr Peter Attia has talked about this as well. Taking in high doses of carbohydrates while working out has not shown in any tests to increase risks of cancer, heart disease, etc. your body metabolizes it immediately. I’m not a doctor or scientist but i haven listened to many people cover this topic. It’s definitely not something to worry about. I would also be realistic about the caloric needs on the bike vs your intake. 100 watts for an hour is about 400 calories which means you’re burning 100g/hr of carbs. Putting out more power quickly pushes you over the limit of what you can realistically ingest. Drag that out over multiple hours and you’re always going to be in a deficit. Also the 160g number is specifically during an Ironman, a 10+ hour race. You need all the fuel you can get and you’ll still be in a deficit
@@_gregvalencia attia also admits to drinking 8 glasses of wine per week, I can't take him seriously, clearly not someone who takes seriously these kind of concerns
Has anyone done any research on older athletes and high sodium consumption who may have a sensitivity to high sodium due to high blood pressure? I am 53 and have noticed higher salt/sodium intake for me does affect my BP. I also tried one of the mentioned Na/mg/K hydration supplements and it did not settle well with me making me feel weird. I do drink 1/2 gatorade 1/2 water when I ride and do well, though I am a low volume athlete and only ride 1-2 hours 3-4 times a week. I also wonder if pumping all of this sodium in for younger athletes may artificially raise their BP and this being completely off their radar?
Doctor might want to brush up on his chemistry. Pure elemental sodium literally explodes in water 😂. Sodium citrate is easy to get and doesn’t cause gut issues.
Thank you. I just listened to this and was yelling at the screen when they mentioned "pure sodium". It will absolutely explode when exposed to water. You can buy it through chemistry suppliers, I hope no one tries anything with it! With this talk of electrolytes, it's probably helpful to study the definition of "salt". It's simply the product of an acid-base reaction. Because it is the result of a reaction, it will always be a mixture with something else, a cation and an anion. Sodium is the cation.
I found a local shop that sells sodium tricate in bulk for around 4$ / kg, try looking for bulk cooking ingredients. In terms of taste I add a nice from half a lemon per bottle and I don't feel any saltiness (@ 2g / 650ml bottle of table salt or sodium tricate), but it might be the case that I just trained my mind to love this drink, add it cubes packed with carbohydrates. My significant other hated the taste and says it is salty 😂🤷
If you look at how much more exspecive Sodium Citrate is than Table salt it seems expencive. But when you take into account how little you use and how much more it then costs per bottle, it's a negligible price difference. About $0.10 per bottle vs $0.01 per bottle. Add to that your 100g of carbs at about $0.30, you have $0.40 per bottle. vs about $2-3 per bottle for off the shelf mix.
This has become the Pfaffenbach Podcast, and I'm here for it! Always great when you have him on.
Kyle's the best!
The Hammer Nutrition Endurolytes Fizz I use are Sodium Bicarbonate, which looks to be pretty cheap, if you wanted to do your own. I'm a gravel racer so for most of the time I'm going over 3 hrs I separate my hydration and fuel by using a hydro pack. I throw a few of those Fizz tablets in 3L and it pressurizes the pack so when I bite on the valve the water just shoots in to my mouth. The effect diminishes as the pack empties, but it it works for quite a while.
Fwiw:
I'm 67 years old, and back on the bike after about 15 years off. I currently ride around 1000 miles/mo (give or take... more in the summer, less in the winter). No racing, just riding.
I have been experimenting for the past year or two on fueling, and I mix the carb ratio: ⅔ maltodextrin, and ⅓ dextrose (by carbs, not by weight). I put 60g of carb "mix" in one 500ml bottle, and add 2g sodium citrate, and 50mg caffeine (helps with carb uptake). I take 2 additional small plastic bags on the ride, each with 60g of mix of those 4 items. Then around 150g carbs in food. My target is around 60g/hr carbs, with a relatively even intake of food and drink. Lots of plain water too, though that amount depends on temperature.
100 mile ride / ~5 ½ hours: around 330g carbs. Maltodextrin, dextrose, sodium citrate and caffeine - all very inexpensive in bulk.
I don’t think it ultimately matters if you’re keeping to 60g/hr and below, but using maltodextrin and dextrose is pointless. They’re both glucose and are using the same uptake pathway. If you like the flavor of them together, then great, but you could consolidate to just one or the other. The idea of the carb ratios is to include a proportional amount (and there’s debate on the proportion) of fructose to provide another pathway through the liver.
The man with two brains. Love this guy.
Great content as always; I haven't been able to find the video with the Home-made Energy drink recipie, will you be able to link it? Trying to dip my toes into mixing my own.
It is not easy to get all aspects of this, but you are doing a good job. I have twice experienced that I don't hit a wall in shorter competitions when I have eaten a salty meal 2-3 hours before the race, but I never thought anything about it. Until now. I ate super salty pasta, and felt marvelous in that 30 minutes competition. Not sure where to go from this exept trying to eat salty meals. I think a guide would be nice, but I see some issues with that as well.. Thanks anyways!
This is great. Still watching so you might touch on it but curious his take on ketone esters.
Instead of salt, I add my DTY mixture of LMH. Per drink mix 1 g of salt, 1000mg potassiumn citrate and 1/4 teaspoon magnessium malate
Sodium citrate is amazing, which i like better than table salt. Tastes less salty too and no gut distress
Seen the title... preview the image... I am not going to watch it! will wait for tomorrow's TrainerRoad workout ;) it will be the sweetest sweetspot for a while
😅
@@TrainerRoad so guys... where is that drink mix video? 😅
towards the end of a long hard ride in the heat, my quads will get a sore feeling when pushing beyond zone 2/3. i imagine if i ignore that soreness and keep pushing it will turn into cramps because its a familiar feeling from the few times i'v cramped in the past from various physical activities. i would be surprised if increasing my sodium intake would keep my legs strong to the end. i assume when someone pushes beyond their limits the body will inevitably break down no matter what you feed it. to me its just muscle soreness from stress during a ride. now go out and do that same activity and it will get easier and easier with less fuel intake even. the main cause of cramping i think is, how hard the work is compared to what youre accustomed to, is your body fully recovered, fuel before and during the ride, and the external elements like weather that can stress the body. i wouldnt put electrolyte as the main cause of cramps.
Sodium citrate is the way to go i've been using it for years, it almost doesn't change the taste and in my country is pretty cheap its like 6-7usd for a kilogram.
I usually do the Prof T. Noakes titration method for 2.5h+ rides with 1g/bottle RealSalt but lately I’m taking in Nothing on 2.5h or less rides with a new PR 😮so I’m not getting slower. I did change to OutLast clothing which absolutely dropped my temperature down noticeably.
Which outlast clothing you using? Ekoi? I'm thinking of grabbing some...
@@DDai-qd8ukYES, great pricing too. I went with white Jersey gloves & socks in OutLast & got their R4 EVO white 2xBoa shoes as the black pavement is scorching here in the South. It has to be 10 degrees cooler… it’s big time noticeable. Everything fits normal but Jersey is real tight but a lot of stretch. Shoes might actually be 1/2-1 size big but fits my wide normal American forefoot well & have toe wiggle room which probably is cooler too. I’m using Castelli shorts but think you might upsize their shorts but then they have short length options as you do have them on your knee caps.
I use redmond re-lyte in my homemade carb mixes. Worth looking into for custom ratios.
I like this Fpafpffafeppfenafenbach guy. Chad would be a good addition to this podcast, where is he?
Is there a link to Jonathan's homemade hydration video?
I have seen how much sugar improves performance and RPE and I am always trying to convince my mountain bike friends, but I can't help but worry about the damage it could do as far as leaky gut, cancer, intestinal problems, heart disease. My hope is that the muscles vacuum it all up, but I'm not fully convinced that it's not also killing me, 160 grams in a bottle, damn
Dr Peter Attia has talked about this as well. Taking in high doses of carbohydrates while working out has not shown in any tests to increase risks of cancer, heart disease, etc. your body metabolizes it immediately. I’m not a doctor or scientist but i haven listened to many people cover this topic. It’s definitely not something to worry about. I would also be realistic about the caloric needs on the bike vs your intake. 100 watts for an hour is about 400 calories which means you’re burning 100g/hr of carbs. Putting out more power quickly pushes you over the limit of what you can realistically ingest. Drag that out over multiple hours and you’re always going to be in a deficit. Also the 160g number is specifically during an Ironman, a 10+ hour race. You need all the fuel you can get and you’ll still be in a deficit
@@_gregvalencia attia also admits to drinking 8 glasses of wine per week, I can't take him seriously, clearly not someone who takes seriously these kind of concerns
Jeukendrup showed the same@@levinsonl
The Dr is 'bach with us again!
Has anyone done any research on older athletes and high sodium consumption who may have a sensitivity to high sodium due to high blood pressure? I am 53 and have noticed higher salt/sodium intake for me does affect my BP. I also tried one of the mentioned Na/mg/K hydration supplements and it did not settle well with me making me feel weird. I do drink 1/2 gatorade 1/2 water when I ride and do well, though I am a low volume athlete and only ride 1-2 hours 3-4 times a week. I also wonder if pumping all of this sodium in for younger athletes may artificially raise their BP and this being completely off their radar?
Great info- thanks.
Or just stick one salt tablet in each bottle of the night before and be done with it 😂
Pickle juice , I swear by it 👍
Doctor might want to brush up on his chemistry. Pure elemental sodium literally explodes in water 😂. Sodium citrate is easy to get and doesn’t cause gut issues.
Thank you. I just listened to this and was yelling at the screen when they mentioned "pure sodium". It will absolutely explode when exposed to water. You can buy it through chemistry suppliers, I hope no one tries anything with it!
With this talk of electrolytes, it's probably helpful to study the definition of "salt". It's simply the product of an acid-base reaction. Because it is the result of a reaction, it will always be a mixture with something else, a cation and an anion. Sodium is the cation.
I found a local shop that sells sodium tricate in bulk for around 4$ / kg, try looking for bulk cooking ingredients.
In terms of taste I add a nice from half a lemon per bottle and I don't feel any saltiness (@ 2g / 650ml bottle of table salt or sodium tricate), but it might be the case that I just trained my mind to love this drink, add it cubes packed with carbohydrates. My significant other hated the taste and says it is salty 😂🤷
Did you guys skip high-school chemistry? There's no such thing as taking in "pure sodium".
You can, but it burns on the tongue. 🤷🏻♂️