In this episode, we discuss: 0:00:00 - Intro 0:00:08 - Don’s background: from growing up on a farm to studying nutritional biochemistry 0:04:39 - Don’s philosophy on nutrition, muscle, and metabolism 0:18:10 - The controversial relationship between saturated fat and atherosclerosis 0:26:30 - The basics of protein and amino acids 0:33:46 - Origin and limitations of the current recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for protein intake 0:43:44 - Protein sources: determining quality, absorption rates, and how to track intake 0:51:35 - Leucine, lysine, and methionine: three important essential amino acids 0:57:35 - The vital role of ruminant animals in the production of quality protein 1:04:55 - The differing needs and impacts of dietary protein for a 16-year old compared to a 65-year old 1:12:50 - Consequences of protein deficiency in childhood 1:19:50 - Muscle protein synthesis: ideal timing, small meals vs. big meals, and more 1:27:51 - Protein needs of children 1:33:07 - How important is timing protein intake around training? 1:37:27 - The role of leucine in fatty acid oxidation by muscle 1:41:07 - High protein diets for fat loss: Results from Don’s clinical trials 1:55:24 - Influence of industry funding on nutrition studies 2:01:26 - Don’s thoughts on plant-based and synthetic “meats” 2:10:05 - Problems with epidemiological studies of dietary protein
You deserve a million subscribers before the end of this year. I don't understand why I get unsubscribed all the time. I subscribed many times already and I have to remember your name to avoid loosing your channel.
Wow. this is helpful 👍👍👍 Leucine activating mTor. Carbs activating too (through insulin I guess) 3.4g lysine (for protein synthesis) Low in plants 1g Methionine (for DNA RNA repair, synthesis of taurine, cysteine, glutathione) Low in Lentils Ruminants, cows. 60 grams plant protein into 100grams balances protein. 300g protein body needs daily 1.6 per kg body mass intake. worse synthesis efficiency with age Collagen turnover 100 days muscle protein 15-16days Muscle needs 50gram protein to respond with growth. Exercise is catabolic no growth then. But after with proteins leucine initiator 2 hours window after At night muscle is in catabolic state supplying organs which as liver still synthesise Stu Philips Doug Patton Jones Luke Van 20-60g protein window for muscle utilisation 100% for liver close to 50% protein dissolved before getting to blood 😲 except branch chained as leucine Leucine inhibits pyruvate from getting to mitochondria spares glucose, promotes glucose recycling, keeping in blood, inhibiting it's oxidation and promoting fat oxidation in mitochondria. Meals 30g 30 30 better than 10 20 60. first meal critical. Leucine activates mTor for 5 hours.
it felt like "the religious realm" all along.... but when you were somewhat aware of it you still kindly (or blindly if one were less charitable) accepeted all his upcycler'cow lobbying bs. it also felt like given all the science (not only muscle fitness but also, health, zoonose, ecology etc) and/or philosophy pointing out to plant-based diet being superior some people will always be stuck at the tabbaco industry era... at least he still stated that the planet cannot run anymore animal protein (given all these are concentrated in the West and that the trophic level of human is 2.2, same as anchovy) and that health things are achievable as a non-carnist (ie. vegan). people I guess can still connect the dot to achieve a less obscurantist standpoint/behavior. A nonetheless somewhat interesting conversation if one weren't naive about the underlying yet obvious ideological defensive narrative...
That's foolishness to use that as a knock against carbs. These unnatural low-carb diets simply make your body shut down appetite because it's not the diet the body wants. I've eaten a hgih-carb diet for 30 years, and I have a healthy appetite and eat large. I'm not fat, and recently got a clean bill of health. I eat the good carbs, not processed.
sorry but Don Layman sounds like Layne Norton. An ideologue masked up as a non-biased resource. Why is he in the vast minority in so strongly recommending so much animal protein? Is it because his sponsors are 1:57:53 Kraft Foods and The National Cattlemen's Beef Association? I couldn't tell you but it's really suspect.
This is probably one of my favorite episodes you've done! I want to offer my own personal experience in case someone finds it helpful. 32 year old female, athletic my whole life, never been "overweight" in terms of BMI, but my weight has often fluctuated into the higher end of the normal range, mostly due to PCOS hormonal issues. At 30, I finally got my PCOS under control, lost a bit of weight and maintained that for 2 years. But this year I decided I was ready to finally lose those infamous "last 10lbs". I already eat healthy, natural, whole/unprocessed foods. I'm already lifting weights and running marathons. What to change? Calorie counting is very stressful and wasn't something I could maintain in past attempts, but I needed to find an easy way to ensure I wasn't overeating, while still being satiated and getting all the nutrition I need for my high exercise level. My doctor advised me exactly what Don states here. She convinced me to track only one metric: protein. As long as I hit a minimum of 100g of protein a day, and ideally closer to 120g, then the rest would likely fall into place. And she said another thing he did, which is to focus on getting the protein in every meal, split into 3-4 meals, starting with a good breakfast. I consumed most of the 100g of protein from meats, fish, eggs, dairy, and only used whey protein powder to top off if I wanted to reach 120g on hard training days. I still ate plenty of vegetables, legumes, seeds and some whole grain, but didn't even count the protein in some veg sources. In following this plan, I quickly realized a few things - how previously I was falling short of that goal ( I thought I ate plenty of protein, but upon tracking discovered I didn't, especially with breakfast). I also realized how in eating all of this protein, I was very satisfied, had way more energy, and also didn't negatively impact my hormones or metabolism. Most importantly, I was consuming overall less calories. Frankly, it's just really hard to overeat when your meal is rich in protein. In the end, I was able to finally lose those last pounds without tracking calories or feeling deprived or low energy. Such a big win and something that is not a quick fix diet but a way of eating I can maintain for the rest of my life. I strongly urge others to give this method a try.
@@pspence1963 she said it. Eggs, meat, fish mostly animal protein and way protein in multiple meals 5 to 6 meals, over 50 grams of protein for breakfast and 30 to 40 grams of protein per meal to get about 80 to 120 grams total per day
As an endurance athlete, I found myself listening to this podcast. There is some interesting information here, but there is also a fair amount of cognitive dissonance as well. 1. Children's uptake of protein is very high and efficient but plant-based diets in schools are very dangerous? Because they will not get enough protein? Do you see the dissonance? 2. The downside of not getting enough protein is what?; A potentially small amount lean muscles mass loss? The upside is a dramatic decrease in cancer risk, where plant-based proteins are twice safe as animal based ones, but even so, how do you dispute Victor Longo's more protein=more cancer findings? That wasn't even discussed. 3. The famous "I eat wild caught meat" claim. Because everyone on the planet can eat wild caught meat. Stinks of non-sustainable privilege. 4. While training for my last marathon I freaked out because I put on 5 lbs even though I was training very hard and running 40+ miles a week. I am a non-protein supplementing vegan. I did a lean muscle mass test and it turns I had put on 5 lbs of muscle. At 54, I was eating about 80 grams of protein a day. (I tracked it ) and putting on muscle mass. My trainer wanted me to go to 140 grams of protein a day to lose weight, which as a vegan I found extraordinarily frustrating. There is no way to get that sort of protein on a vegan diet even eating just beans. Ironically, the whole issue that had me trying to lose weight in the first place is that I had put on too much muscle while on a non-supplemented vegan diet. Do you see the irony? 5. Does spending 40 million dollars with Gary Taubes failing to prove low carb diets are beneficial count as diet religion? 6. I will give Peter his props as an endurance athlete. I got here listening to his zone 2 advice which seems excellent. But as someone striving for longevity, I struggle with his continued promotion of animal foods. Maybe another 40 million will fix that too. Longo does agree that uptake of protein is important as you age to prevent frailty, but there are diminishing returns and potential risks of too much protein especially animal protein. Maybe next time they can discuss the links between with protein and cancer instead of worrying about how protein underfed us vegans seem to be and how our ideas are dangerous.
Cry more soy boy. Turns out that humans are meant to eat meat, which is probably why they taste like heaven compared to the cardboard tasting alternatives.
Did any of the grant funders for Dr. Layman’s research allow him to focus on the relationship between animal protein and cancer growth? Did he ever ask the “Egg Board”, for example of which he headed.. if he could do a study on eggs affect on cancer? What about the affects After people have cancer? Correlation between animal protein and any affect on cancer? Positive or negative?
I was hospitalized a year ago with diverticulitis, on antibiotics for a month, and I lost all my muscle, lost 16 lbs, went down to 109 from 126. I was working out 6X a week, in good shape at the time. It totally destroyed me, but I jumped right back in, took me a while, but I'm working out 6x week again. Still never gained it all back, just at 116 now. It's so hard.
The response here on alternative meats Beyond and Impossible was not informative. Beyond stock price and Burger King sales are irrelevant to nutrition. I'm glad this comment came immediately after the disclosure of funding/conflicts because it gives the viewer a better sense of the amplitude of those conflicts. However, follow up questions would be helpful. Which ingredients in which products lack FDA approval? (They are substantially different products - Impossible is GMO soy and Beyond is pea protein.) Is he referring to the GMO heme in Impossible? (The ingredients in Beyond are obvious no novel, even to a nutrition novice.) What do we know about the process they are using? Is there a difference between the soy and protein products of which people should be aware? The China comment is also bizzare since, if it refers to Beyond, that factory was opened specifically for Chinese market. I understand that the prevailing bias here is toward meat based diets given the science, but a balanced discussion would make this more informative for people who, for whatever reason, won't eat meat.
I listen to health and nutrition based podcasts every week. I've read the Muscle & Fitness since I was a young teen and grew up on a farm, played 3 sports competitively through high school... so protein ecosystems, nutrition, and fitness have been a big part of my life for decades. This is a top 10 all-time podcast I've ever listened to in terms of information. Wow.
There was a lot of great information here. BUT, I also love the humanness where you see such genius but then when it comes to his disdain for fake meats like Beyond he’ll just say things that aren’t even true. Here’s the actual ingredients of a Beyond Burger: Water, pea protein*, expeller-pressed canola oil, refined coconut oil, rice protein, natural flavors, dried yeast, cocoa butter, methylcellulose, and less than 1% of potato starch, salt, potassium chloride, beet juice color, apple extract, pomegranate concentrate, sunflower lecithin, vinegar, lemon juice concentrate, vitamins and minerals (zinc sulfate, niacinamide [vitamin B3], pyridoxine hydrochloride [vitamin B6], cyanocobalamin [vitamin B12], calcium pantothenate) Also, the meat that most people consume is not “natural” …those animals are pumped full of all kinds of chemicals and antibiotics. And same for milk. If it’s such a great food why does it need to be fortified. That is “supplements” right there, the very thing he’s speaking against. Also, you don’t need “synthetics” if you don’t eat meat. And the people I see taking the most supplements are the ones who consume the most “bro” style meat heavy diets, and they drink milk. If it’s such perfect food why then also take whey protein? Overall great stuff nonetheless. 🙏
My other favorite part was when he said you “could” do a vegan diet but you’d need a lot of information. 🤣🤣🤣 Hopefully you see the irony in that with how much information, research, data, etc is in just this one podcast alone. 💯
I currently take in 134 grams protein daily (thank you Layne Norton Carbon Diet Coach app). Eggs, egg whites, fish, shellfish, beans, legumes and other animal based proteins daily. Don't really find it that hard once you start paying attention to it. It is a rare day that I have to take in protein powders. Enjoyed listening to this one immensely. My workouts have improved, my strength has improved and I am not getting hangry.
You know, something that frequently occurs to me is just how damn expensive daily protein intake is for achieving peak fitness really is. In other words, if one were just to think to yourself casually about what you think your protein needs would be post-workout and throughout the week you'd think you could just handle it with chicken breast and a few other sources which are of moderate expensiveness. Not so. Because realistically speaking, with the amount of protein people recommend for building muscle mass and peak fitness, you're looking at huge amounts of protein like 140 plus grams per day. No way is that being covered when you're just finishing up a workout with some chicken breast and a sandwich post-workout. And then if you get a wise-guy who says, "Well just buy protein powder", ok, see? Now we start getting pricey. Most of those gigantic tubosaurs of protein powder are only 7 to 14 days of powder and usually not enough in an average recommended serving to cover those daily needs without wiping out your supply in three or four days. I just don't get it. How are people achieving these massive numbers (to me) that are actually just the minimum numbers recommended without being inordinately wealthy, dedicating an inordinate amount of their weekly income to this venture, or eating protein-rich animal foods in giant amounts throughout the day?
So, eating a lb of ground beef would pretty much cover all of those in a day! And splitting it in two meals, say maybe 8 oz at 8 am and the other 8 oz at 4 pm, would allow for perfect muscle and skeletal muscle synthesis. Is that right?
1 lb of 80% ground beef (according to Cron-o-meter) has 1152 kcal, 115 g protein, 73 g fat, no carbs. 8.9 g Leucine, 2.9 g Methionine, 9.5 g Lysine. Not too shabby!
The part early about mobility ... I put this on pause and that got me on the bike this morning. A few miles later, I'm back now and listening to the rest of the video. I'll be 74 in a couple of weeks. Animal protein is getting pretty expensive.
Old Roscoe - everything is getting expensive. Just sayin 😄 First...lifting weights is far better for mTOR (thus muscle protein synthesis forward), than is cardio, (i.e. your cycling). Press that bike over your head and do 3 sets of 6-10 squats with it 🤣 Second - high quality animal protein is, imo, not that cost prohibitive - to the point the average person's budget for their quality dietary protein intake would justify not cutting back on it (imo). High quality dietary protein is THAT important (especially in older adults), that our health status cannot afford to write it off, or cut back on it because. "It's gotten expensive.' (you've only said, 'its gotten expensive", so hopefully you aren't considering cutting back. I'd say, to that mindset... (again I realize you haven't said you are cutting back), but for those who might be thinking its too expensive to 'afford' - find a way! - there are lots of things in our life we can afford to cut back on (Starbucks, premium streaming services, entertainment, dining out, etc.) IMO, high quality protein (and resistance training)...neither of these are anything we should consider cutting back on. Just my 2 cents😃. (forgive the 'lecture' aspect of my 2 cents, please🙄)...not really directed at you, anyway. It's just that your post about the high expense of animal protein - prompted me to voice my opinion on the subject🤗
@@barbarafairbanks4578 Agree very much with you. My health is built around grassfed and finished beef, lamb, seafood, although I search for 30 percent off conventional meat early mornings at my grocery. I get the right amount for my age, weight, and activity, and dont overindulge so it doesn't go to fat. I have cut alot of other products out. I'm low income, also living off savings since the poison dart prohibits my working as a nurse. Health first!
I was a kid that had a family that cared nothing of feeding me or healthy meals. Until I played sports, I had no clue until I witnessed normal families. I was a great QB ,but it was too late the damage was done. At 62 now, I am in probably better shape now, after some trying medical years, probably due to 16 years of bad everything as a child. This podcast was utterly amazing for me. I understand it now.
One really big concern I have with TH-cam is the lack of qualification to actually give advice or post videos on these often highly complex, specialist areas. The algorithm only discriminates by popularity to view, not by accuracy or quality of the advice or information provided. That can be a concern with longevity related content, because it can lead to outright wrong conclusions being provided in clickbait format, over content such as this, which is long form and nuanced.
Cronometer calculates each amino acid found in your (mixed foods) diet. I don't think it accounts for absorption, but it can give you an idea of individual amino acid consumption.
As a RN and powerlifter (and nutrition nerd) I was so excited anticipating this podcast! I L-O-V-E this topic matter and it was delivered very eloquently and flawlessly. I can not get enough of this content. Thank you :) It is so nice to hear the items that nobody wants to discuss with me-riveting!!
Thank you for this. Grew up in DeKalb, IL (where corn is king) graduated from high school in '72. Had tons of friends who went to Illinois State and U of I. Thank you, Don (and Peter, as well) for teaching me at 67 years old what no one else has!
Many good points and observations, but am curious how they square this with all the studies that show a lower protein diets lead to increased longevity and better health compared to high protein consumption.
Listened to maybe 2 dozen interviews with Don Layman over the last few years and the clarity of information in this podcast is in a league of its own.Every minute well spent...if only all interviews with researchers were this enlightening on the internet.
Mostly misinformation, from a guy who has made a career out of shilling for the egg and meat industry. Longevity research and long-lived populations both show that limited protein when younger and moderate protein when older are optimum for longevity. Bodybuilders are not known for longevity and while I enjoy some of Peter's podcasts, he is dead wrong on nutrition and is dismissive about research, because it doesn't conform to his own bias. And then he calls those who disagree "religious..."
@@greengraybear7925 Interesting points, I'll look into those. I'm not sure I agree about your assessment on bodybuilders though. Is it the high protein they consume, or the dozens of chemicals they put into their bodies?
@GreenGrayBear They discussed exactly that when discussing lifespan vs healthspan, no? Lower protein may extend longevity, but it reduces reproductive health and health in general. That's a tradeoff you have to decide for yourself. Like yeah, your body doesn't turnover cells and age as quickly if you're not giving it the building blocks it needs to carry out its everyday functions, makes perfect sense. Which part is misinformation?
I am a very fit and healthy 65 year old female (competitive cyclist) who became vegan 10 years ago. I was always careful to consume at least 50 to 60g of plant protein daily. I have always done resistance training. A few years ago I noticed that my once VERY muscular legs and glutes were slowly reducing in size. I dropped 2 pant sizes in this period at the same body weight. I finally had to change my diet to attempt to halt or even reverse the sarcopenia. It's only been 6 months of switching my protein sources to poultry, fish, eggs and non fat yogurt but I've put a full inch on my quads and a half inch on my calves. So even as a senior, it is totally possible to add muscle and avoid the tragedy of sarcopenia. I used to follow the vegan influencers (like Chef AJ, McDougal, Popper, Bernard, Esselstyn) and have always felt very uncomfortable with how sarcopenic they look. McDougal broke a hip in his shower last year and Chef AJ looks like a stiff wind would break her in half. I'm glad I stepped off that strict vegan religion. I plan to have a bone density scan this year to make sure I caught this problem in time.
Wow! I’m so glad you commented! I am going off an 18 year vegan diet because as the years progressed; especially after age 40, I could not eat enough to ever be satiated. I also began having a chronic low level anxiety. I felt as though I could never stuff enough in; they kept up the same mantras of their echo chamber: ‘eat more starch, it’s the pleasure trap, keep a calm stable brain, it’s ok to eat large amounts’. The 1st 10 years I’d followed Dr Fuhrman to the letter and then began following the ones you’d mentioned. Anxiety was GONE within 48 hours of consuming 1G/ideal pound of body weight! Satiated with 1st meal and the entire last 8 days! I’ve already dropped about 7 or more pounds slowly over the 8 days, skin not nearly as dry, and random muscle discomforts, and rashes gone by day 6. So grateful to have stumbled upon this channel. So many people suffering and given the same response repeatedly! Hats off to those who strive on a vegan diet but we are all quite individualized.
How are the animals going, who were shot in the head? You''re concerned about a half inch on your calves, and an inch on your quads. You've taken everything from those innocent beings.
Either Don Layman is possibly confused, or I am. At around 11:00 he represents the Randle hypothesis as saying that fatty acids acting through DAG “cause all the problems” related to insulin resistance. Rather, the Randle hypothesis states that the products of FA oxidation (acetyl-CoA & NADH) lead essentially to a chain of feedback inhibitions such that ultimately intracellular glucose accumulates and prevents further glucose transport. So Randle et al thought the cell gets clogged up with glucose and just can’t take any more, and I didn’t think they attributed any of that to DAG, as Layman would have it. Shulman et al have shown Randle was incorrect, that in fact increased DAG acting through activated PKC-theta ultimately inhibits glucose transport. In the insulin resistant muscle cell, intracellular glucose is low not high. Jason Fung might be surprised to learn this too.
I just wanted to comment how much a waste of space your super-intellectual comment is. I see your channel has a whopping big 504 subscribers, Moen. Mo money blues! I wonder what actually goes through the mind of someone to comment on a video they haven’t even watched! The very definition of a waste of oxygen.
I want to know for the essential amino acids found in animal protein (beef, pork, chicken, fish etc.), how often do you need to consume to reap the benefits and/or keep the needed levels circulating regularly? That is, do you need to consume a certain amount daily, weekly, or somewhere in between? I am about to start eating red meat again and I'd rather eat just enough of what I need than too much or too little.
Not sure exactly, but Don mentioned mTor stays active for 5 hours after a high leucine protein intake. So, he recommended focusing on high protein (leucine) intake at meals 1 and 3.
Every meal, 50 grams or close to it a meal. 3 meals a day. You can use the PDCAAS( protein digestability score), and the DIASS ( digestible amino acid score) to help you make the best choices for you. The higher the score the better obviously. Don't skip breakfast 😉✌️
🎯 Key points for quick navigation: 00:00:02 *🎙️ Peter Attia and Don Layman discuss a shared interest in nutrition through the lens of biochemistry, distancing themselves from dogmatic approaches.* 00:01:27 *🌱 Don Layman grew up on a farm, which sparked his interest in agriculture and food, ultimately guiding him toward a career in nutritional biochemistry.* 00:03:36 *📚 Layman's academic journey involved unexpected turns, including a master's in biochemistry and a Ph.D. that aligned with his interests in nutrition and muscle metabolism.* 00:05:01 *💪 Layman believes that nutrition should focus on two key tissues: the brain and skeletal muscle, essential for health and longevity.* 00:07:15 *⚖️ Muscle metabolism is crucial for glucose and fat utilization, influencing insulin sensitivity and overall metabolic health.* 00:09:15 *📉 Layman suggests that chronic elevation of insulin can lead to insulin resistance, a significant factor in type 2 diabetes.* 00:11:17 *🔄 The role of fats versus carbohydrates in metabolism is debated; excessive carbohydrates can be toxic, leading to health issues like diabetes.* 00:12:57 *🍽️ The concept of de novo lipogenesis (the conversion of glucose to fat) is complex and context-dependent, varying significantly with energy intake.* 00:16:03 *🍏 Distribution of meals and protein intake is highlighted, with Layman emphasizing that fewer meals can be thermogenically advantageous.* 00:20:11 *🔍 Reflection on Ancel Keys' legacy reveals evolving views on diet, particularly regarding saturated fats and the dangers of trans fats.* 00:23:11 *📊 The Minnesota Coronary Experiment raised questions about the link between fat intake and heart disease, revealing complex and sometimes counterintuitive results.* 00:24:42 *❓ Don Layman expresses uncertainty about specific studies, highlighting the need for ongoing research and critical analysis in nutrition science.* 25:07 *⚖️ Scientific theories, like cholesterol and saturated fat, evolve over time and show mixed results in studies.* 26:43 *💪 Protein is crucial for muscle synthesis and preserving lean tissue; many people struggle to meet their protein needs.* 27:54 *📊 Essential amino acids are more important than protein as a whole; we need to focus on these nine specific acids.* 29:36 *🍽️ Unlike vitamins, protein has specific requirements based on essential amino acids that serve various metabolic roles.* 34:46 *📏 RDA (Recommended Dietary Allowance) is based on nitrogen balance, but may underestimate protein requirements, especially in non-growing adults.* 38:23 *🔬 Nitrogen balance measurements are complicated and often lead to underestimations of the actual protein needs of individuals.* 43:04 *🍖 Animal-based proteins provide all essential amino acids, making them highly beneficial compared to plant proteins which may lack complete profiles.* 46:02 *🥗 Protein quality is assessed by amino acid composition and bioavailability, with animal proteins generally scoring higher than plant-based options.* 49:31 *🔍 Calculating accurate protein intake based on DIAS scores for various foods can be cumbersome and impractical for the average person.* 00:49:57 *📊 Protein labels often misrepresent actual protein content based on outdated scoring systems, leading to misconceptions about dietary intake.* 00:50:40 *⚖️ Essential amino acid scores, particularly from plants, are often underestimated, necessitating better assessment methods.* 00:52:20 *🍽️ Focus on three essential amino acids-leucine, lysine, and methionine-can simplify dietary protein tracking and ensure adequate intake.* 00:54:41 *🔄 Leucine activates mTOR for muscle protein synthesis, while insulin affects its regulation across other tissues, emphasizing the need for balanced meal timing.* 00:56:16 *🥚 Methionine and lysine are critical for muscle protein synthesis, with lysine typically being deficient in grain-based diets.* 00:58:33 *🐄 Ruminants like cows upcycle plant materials, converting low-quality proteins into higher-quality amino acids, showcasing their essential role in our food system.* 01:01:07 *⚗️ Specific gut bacteria in ruminants synthesize amino acids from non-protein nitrogen sources, enhancing the nutritional value of meat.* 01:03:41 *🤔 The decline in anabolic efficiency with age can be countered by increasing protein intake, particularly essential amino acids.* 01:05:59 *🏋️♂️ Muscle protein synthesis declines with age, but older adults can still respond effectively to higher protein intakes similar to younger individuals.* 01:11:29 *📉 Hormonal changes with aging impact protein synthesis, making it crucial to focus on protein quality and exercise for muscle health in older adults.* 01:13:54 *🧬 Early malnutrition stunts muscle and cellular development, leading to lifelong obesity risks.* 01:15:05 *🍽️ Childhood malnutrition can manifest as either kwashiorkor (swollen bellies) or marasmus (skin and bones), depending on protein quality and caloric intake.* 01:19:00 *⚠️ Concerns exist regarding the reduction of animal protein in school lunches and potential health impacts on children.* 01:22:39 *📈 Optimal protein intake for muscle growth is between 25 and 60 grams per meal, emphasizing the need for distribution throughout the day.* 01:23:07 *🔢 Protein should be considered as an absolute number rather than a percentage of calories for effective dietary planning.* 01:24:02 *🌅 The first meal of the day is crucial for protein synthesis, especially after an overnight fast, to prevent muscle breakdown.* 01:27:02 *🏋️♂️ Post-exercise protein intake is more effective for recovery than pre-exercise due to muscle being in a catabolic state during workouts.* 01:35:00 *⏳ The anabolic window for protein intake post-exercise is generally within two hours for untrained individuals but less significant for those who are well-trained.* 01:36:24 *⚗️ Muscle can effectively utilize 25-60 grams of protein per meal, while the liver can process more without using all for muscle synthesis.* 01:37:31 *🔍 Leucine plays a crucial role in both muscle protein synthesis and fatty acid oxidation, highlighting its importance in diets.* 01:37:47 *⚡ Zone two training focuses on maximizing fat oxidation while keeping lactate levels low.* 01:39:11 *🧪 Leucine activates CPT-1 enzyme, enhancing fat oxidation and sparing glucose for the brain.* 01:41:13 *🍽️ Three strategies for weight loss include calorie reduction, macronutrient manipulation, and time-restricted eating.* 01:43:31 *🔄 High protein intake promotes satiety and supports muscle preservation during weight loss.* 01:47:12 *📉 Higher protein diets resulted in more fat loss and better insulin stability compared to high-carb diets.* 01:49:02 *🥗 Subjects on high protein diets reported lower hunger levels, leading to better dietary compliance.* 01:51:22 *💪 Older adults lose muscle mass more quickly than younger adults, emphasizing the need for adequate protein intake.* 01:53:36 *🥚 Distribution of protein intake across meals enhances net protein synthesis and may aid weight loss.* 01:58:42 *🧬 Industry funding has historically driven nutrition research due to NIH's focus on disease-related studies.* 02:00:21 *📜 Marketing regulations differ significantly between animal products and processed plant foods, affecting consumer perceptions.* 02:01:43 *🍔 Many companies are experimenting with synthetic and plant-based meats, but their technical feasibility and sustainability are in question.* 02:02:39 *🌱 Plant-based proteins are important, but synthetic proteins may not be viable due to economic and environmental concerns.* 02:03:21 *📉 The popularity of products like Beyond Burger may be waning, as initial interest does not translate to sustained consumption.* 02:04:30 *🚚 Processing and transportation of plant-based proteins can increase greenhouse gas emissions, undermining their environmental benefits.* 02:05:14 *🥛 Misleading labeling of plant-based products (e.g., "milk") can create nutritional confusion regarding protein content and quality.* 02:06:48 *👩👧 Many parents may unknowingly provide their children with protein-deficient diets due to reliance on plant-based options.* 02:09:05 *💪 Female individuals often struggle to consume adequate daily protein, highlighting the challenges of a plant-based diet.* 02:10:30 *📊 The definition of "high protein" is often misunderstood, highlighting the need for clarity in dietary recommendations and research.* 02:12:07 *🍳 Research suggests minimal egg consumption may not significantly impact health risks, challenging previous dietary guidelines.* Made with HARPA AI
So hard to get enough protein, especially trying to be environmentally conscientious. I've been having a lot of eggs, yogurt (use greek yogurt like a sour cream replacement), edemame, tofu mixed with my meat. This morning had 4 eggs with 2% salty greek yogurt with gochugaru, so that's about 24g protein from the eggs and 16 from the yogurt, but I feel like I'm stuffing myself to eat all that as a 34 year old man.
EXACTLY! Why do I not hear these experts comment on this? It's so obvious that you're either going to be spending tons of money on protein powder or you're going to be eating huge portion sizes or you're going to be eating throughout the day
It's something that frequently occurs to me: just how damn expensive daily protein intake is for achieving peak fitness really is. In other words, if one were just to think to yourself casually about what you think your protein needs would be post-workout and throughout the week you'd think you could just handle it with chicken breast and a few other sources which are of moderate expensiveness. Not so. Because realistically speaking, with the amount of protein people recommend for building muscle mass and peak fitness, you're looking at huge amounts of protein like 140 plus grams per day. No way is that being covered when you're just finishing up a workout with some chicken breast and a sandwich post-workout. And then if you get a wise-guy who says, "Well just buy protein powder", ok, see? Now we start getting pricey. Most of those gigantic tubosaurs of protein powder are only 7 to 14 days of powder and usually not enough in an average recommended serving to cover those daily needs without wiping out your supply in three or four days. I just don't get it. How are people achieving these massive numbers (to me) that are actually just the minimum numbers recommended without being inordinately wealthy, dedicating an inordinate amount of their weekly income to this venture, or eating protein-rich animal foods in giant amounts throughout the day?
Anybody else here radically changing their diet composition and timing as a result of this video? I feel like I've been sabotaging myself for years now. Can't wait for breakfast tomorrow.
Low carb and IF have absolutely led to muscle wasting for me. I haven’t been able to figure out if it was just the intermittent fasting, or having to few carbs. I’m beginning to think it’s likely both.
Delaying my ‘breakfasts’ til way after Noon time - what a disaster I’ve brought upon myself. ALWAYS take ‘grandma’s’ advice first - generations of productive humans ate a large, full fat & protein breakfast - At Breakfast! Argh to all these hip online advocates of more extreme approaches.
@@eugeniebreida Agreed. However you may want to give a listen to the podcasts he does with Dr. Lyon also. In those it is made more clear that fasting or having your first meal later in the day is not an issue. The point is that your first meal of the day while you are in a catabolic state whether it be 7am or 1pm should be high in protein in the 30 - 50 gram range to stimulate mtor and muscle protein synthesis.
@@timroberts9651 Preserving lean tissue on low carb, esp with IF as well, requires: 1 robust ketosis; ketones have pronounced protein-sparing activity. Might need MCT oil supplements to keep ketonemia up. 2 HIGH POTASSIUM, high base. Acid-ash diet erodes lean tissue, and K may have anabolic or anti-catabolic effect independent of acid/base issue. Need multiple grams of K per day, preferably as bicarb (base). Impossible to get enough from diet unless you chew greens all day. 3 Supplementary glycine and NAC (cysteine) -- very important. See posts below, copied from this page (were posted in reply to other people; I would link to my comments but youtube does not allow direct linking to specific comments). 4 Supplementary testosterone and human growth hormone. Yes, I know, a pain in the ass, and HGH is expensive, but very very powerful anabolic effects, much more powerful than dietary anything. POSTED ELSEWHERE, duped for your convenience: alan2102 @David Less a matter of "demonizing" methionine. More a matter of facing its downsides. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7911310/ www.fightaging.org/archives/2019/09/methionine-metabolism-and-the-pace-of-aging/ www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213231721000884 My own strategy is to minimize MET intake while supplementing liberally with the more-desirable byproducts of MET such as TAU and CYS (health-promoting and probably pro-longevity in themselves). CYS in the form of NAC alan2102 Enhance benefit of methionine restriction with supplementary glycine and NAC: twitter.com/alan2102z/status/1543369161602113537 Glycine also spares leucine and has anabolic effects: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27094036/ pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34519439/ pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31803749/ pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27225947/ pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33122122/ Note on PMID 34519439: "Branched-chain amino acid did NOT improve lean body mass as compared with glycine", i.e. glycine performed BETTER than BCAAs/leucine! CYS: numerous health and anti-aging benefits, not least pro-anabolism and favorable body comp change (less fat, more lean); best when teamed with ~10X glycine (i.e. one gram CYS to 10 grams glycine, or thereabouts): pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26362762/ pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21795440/ www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1569588/ pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8841951
This is a great episode. I do have questions though. How much protein does a senior who is trying to gain muscle eat? I've read 1.2 g per k of body weight. Also, how do you eat four meals a day and also intermittent fast?
He mentions that in the episode. 1.5g or higher per day, quality of that protein important ( use PDCAAS score and DIAAS score to find the best), but essentially Meat, eggs and milk. Soy, Whey and pea good too. Like calories, not all proteins are equal. No to intermittent fasting, not necessary with higher protein, lower Carb, in fact detrimental as lengthens catabolic state in the morming ( muscle eating). Breakfast protein is essential for waking up mTOR and firing up your system, so a good 45-50g of protein at Breakfast is essential, and Dinner Protein the second most important meal. Lunch meh, it's the filler to make up the difference to 150g per day from the other two meals. Hope that helped 😊.
Trying to learn about protein and need to rewatch this over and over. I must have done damage to my system being a vegetarian half my life not eating much protein at all. Only in the last few months have I been trying to intake protein but around 1:23 or so when we talk about older adults needing the full amount of protein to have effect is so helpful to learn. Thank you Dr. Attia and Dr. Layman!
Vegan diets don't lack protein. This myth is old and tired. I've eaten a semi-fruitarian vegan diet for 30 years, and recently got a clean bill of health. The animals people eat for protein, all eat plant-based.
Hmmmm. Well lots of issues here. I think you should have Dr. Layman on again with Dr. Greger to debate the plant protein vs animal protein issue. He says a lot of things here that according to many videos on Dr. Greger's website, are completely inaccurate based on science.
This was one of the most practically useful episodes I’ve heard yet. Fits into a very small area of a ven diagram of things I don’t know much about (nutrition), things that are practically important principles for daily life, and things that much of the common wisdom seems to be wrong about. Always love hearing someone who’s studied a topic for the majority of their life get asked basic practical questions about that topic, and then hearing them explain their answers. Incredibly helpful.
Hello Jim, If you have a little time, and if it’s not a trouble, Could you please give couple of points, in terms of practice actionable takeaways. Please 🙏 Something like EAT THIS THIS MUCH THIS OFTEN
1:03:21 I don't understand this argument. A life is life. The plant is no less living, because it doesn't have a nervous system. Furthermore you kill many invertebrates when you eat say raspberries. But anyway, I want to ask two questions for the people who do not eat animal-based protein: 1:10:00 For the vegans, wouldn't it make more sense to add EAAs, leucine, lysine, etc to their diet, than just more protein? (That's of course on top of the protein one consumes.) Also, are there any EAA or leucine supplements, that are plant-based, vegan friendly?
What a great episode. I wish he would have discussed supplemental Amino acids a little. If you're total protein from food per day is lower, would supplementing eaa's make up for it?
On the Minnesota Coronary Experiment 20:45, I wish peter had said more about the possible interpretations of this study because I think it's an incredibly powerful study. LDL went down, and CVD went up. Saturated fat went down, and CVD went up. This was an incredibly well-controlled study since people couldn't leave and were being spoon-fed. This type of study is so expensive that it just can't be done cheaply and the fact that they didn't publish and hid data should tell you everything. I think the implications of the study are clear, and I'm curious why Peter has such a hard time accepting its results.
He has a lot of friends that are vegans, so he's not willing to expressly say that a high saturated fat/animal protein diet is healthier than a high seed oil/high carb diet
Ok im not a nutritionist or bio chemist So some of the conversation I was able to follow but most of it im lost. How can you break down this information for the everyday regular folk
This was a serious time commitment but worth it! I had to replay several sections along with copious googling to try to keep up with you guys. You've caused me to completely rethink my plans. I'm 59, about 6'1" and 200 pounds. I need to drop some fat, but I'm abandoning my plans to fast my way down. I think I'm just too old to risk loss of lean muscle. Instead, I'm going to focus on increasing activity, especially resistance training.
This was so incredibly enlightening. I've always known that protein was important but having it explained in a more simple way puts things in perspective meal wise. I've been learning about nutrition for years now and I've not seen anyone say make sure you get your required protein first before anything else. It seems to be more of an aside such as eat a moderate amount of meat with lots of vegetables but now I feel it's the opposite and you don't need a lot of vegetables to get the required gut health effects.
Regard the minimum 30-40 grams of protein in the first meal to trigger muscle protein synthesis. Can I say that the studies were done using protein powder? How do we recalibrate this for someone eating animal protein with fats and everything else? And given the delayed stomach emptying and maybe slower digestion compared to powder protein. Would the same 30-40 grams of say a steak have the same effect or do we need more of it? For someone over 40 years and studies showing lower absorption, does that number double to 80 grams due to poor absorption of protein? Or is the 40 grams has already factored in the impact of aging?
@@zed5129 Body fat is composed of adipose tissue, which is made up of adipocytes (fat cells) and a network of blood vessels and nerves. Adipocytes store triglycerides (a type of fat) and release them as energy when needed by the body. In addition to triglycerides, body fat also contains other types of fats, such as cholesterol, phospholipids, and free fatty acids. It also contains various proteins, hormones, and other molecules that regulate metabolism and other body processes. The proportion of different types of fat in the body can vary depending on factors such as diet, exercise, genetics, and age. For example, a diet high in saturated fat can increase the proportion of saturated fat in body fat stores, while regular exercise can help to reduce overall body fat and promote the storage of healthier types of fat.
When are anabolic steroids okay? Not asking as a young man or "for a friend", but if an older person loses so much lean muscle mass from injury/bedrest, and that is so detrimental...? Around 1:50:00
Best Drive podcast to date ! One question I have that I don't think was brought up was the use of EAA's or BCAA's as supplements , lots of talk about types and qualities of different proteins to get in the specific MTOR activating amino acids, but what about going right to the source and consuming EAA supplements directly ???
There's so much information in this episode. I hope Don returns for part 2. I wish they discussed longevity and blue zone diets. I feel like he contradicted himself with his critique of non dairy "milk". He mentioned low amounts of protein are only recognized by the liver (paraphrasing). So one shouldn't obtain their protein from milk. This doesn't apply to children but there's no problem with an adult drinking non dairy.
We shouldn't obtain our protein from "Nut Milks" aka Nut Juice is what he was saying. And as he mentioned having a glass of milk (approx 8g protein) alone is going straight to your liver anyway, even though its a far superior source. You need to have it as part of a meal and get those grams up to 40 -50 gram total for the branch chains to say " high quality protein" and the muscles to take the bulk of it. The rest will go to your liver..
At 57:34 Don explains that the bacteria in a ruminant animals stomach produces/up-cycles plant proteins into perfect protein structures from 60 grams of plant protein, and the nitrogen from the soil, into 100 grams of complete, human-compatible, protein. If true, this may be the most significant argument against vegetarian agriculture. Mono crop agriculture strip mines the soil, while regenerative agriculture revitalizes the soil, AND produces the most efficient food/fuel/energy source for humans.
Not enough protein...maybe why, after 12 hours, I'm ready for bed. These are all the topics I've been trying to learn about. I will definitely be increasing daily proteins. Much appreciated!
@@bellakrinkle9381 have you read up on ketones and the brain? Your body may not be utilizing glucose effectively (may be insulin resistant, most people are) and worth shifting body into ketosis to be flexible to use both. This can highly impact your energy..this is coming from someone that is diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome..changed my life! Proteins and fats come together anyway ;)
don clearly has a wealth of knowledge but many of the points he made here were pedantic or missed the mark altogether. for all of the emphasis he placed on things such as protein quantity and quality, where is the subsequent widespread protein inadequacy in the american population? if plant based proteins are so poor when it comes to hypertrophy and don believes that muscles play a major role in our common chronic diseases, where is the data showing higher mortality in populations eating mostly or solely plants? shouldn’t we focus on outcome data and not get caught up in the weeds? additionally, he overlooks that replacing some animal proteins with plant proteins likely confers a net positive effect, as a result of components such as soluble fiber, polyphenols, resistant starch etc. moreover, i acknowledge that don said that scaling animal farming is not sustainable but he also took a shot at the sustainability of plant based proteins. there is clear scientific consensus that plant based options are far superior when it comes their environmental impact and it’s not even close. also, most of the plants like soy that we grow go to feed livestock anyway. don made his biases exceedingly obvious. does he truly believe that meatless monday’s in nyc schools is taking a risk? that one vegetarian meal a week will have any negative consequences on the students’ health? furthermore, no one considers beyond or impossible burgers a health food. they were made to be a more sustainable and ethical option that doesn’t compromise much on taste. he also has an issue with the naming of some alternative foods when soy milk, peanut butter, coconut meat, coconut milk etc have been around forever and caused no issue. i could keep going but i’ll leave it there.
You make some good points, but. You write: "if plant based proteins are so poor when it comes to hypertrophy and don believes that muscles play a major role in our common chronic diseases, where is the data showing higher mortality in populations eating mostly or solely plants?" Possible answer: there is more to muscle maintenance than protein intake *per se*. One major factor is acid/base balance. Excess acid ash (too much animal food uncompensated by veggies) is erosive, causes muscle and bone loss. Alkali rich diet, all else equal, will do a better job of maintaining lean mass. Still have to have adequate protein, but it changes the balance. Also, potassium per se (apart from its role as base) seems to have an N-sparing effect, preserving lean mass; almost no one gets enough K except ppl on plant-based diets. I suspect that plant proteins will be found adequate enough for *maintenance* but less so for *growth*. Growing populations (e.g. children) probably need some animal protein; babies certainly do (that's all they ever eat, naturally; i.e. milk). Old people probably need the more-anabolic animal protein in order to keep from slipping too fast, unless compensated in other ways such as growth hormone or testosterone supplementation. Same for people recovering from injury, surgery, etc., and possibly also expectant mothers.
A healthy human gut microbiome can make essential amino acids. I am an oncologist interested in studying protein in cancer from my readings I see the higher amino acid ratios of animal proteins and higher absorption of animal proteins promotes cancer growth just like refined sugar can promote cancer growth but sugar in whole fruits prevents cancer growth. Animal proteins are a processed protein or processed food just like vegitable oils are processed and processed food promotes growth and energy for cancer promotion so I recommend a Flexitarian or preferrably a whole food plant based diet to my patients to avoid thes pro-cancer growth elements to the diet.
I am really glad you learnt some very important things here Peter Attia MD about ruminant animals, and how the bacteria works to make our food from the process in the ruminant animals system. Your willingness to learn without embarrassment of a not previously known subject, or what you thought you knew, is very good. Thank you, it makes us all learn better.
I'm wondering how to even get 40 grams of protein in a breakfast. Dinner is easier I think. Even with three eggs, I'm nowhere near 40. Anyone have some suggestions?
To get at least 30 grams at breakfast, I often eat, 2 eggs, 1 Egg White = 15g protein and either 1/2 C of cottage cheese or Greek yogurt and that gets me to 30g. Or… Eggs, lean organic chicken sausage Or…. 20g protein shake, 2 eggs, 1 egg white = 35g Or….. 2 scoops protein = 40g Helpful?
Good morning Peter. Thank you for this episode and the wonderful guest Dr layman. What a incredible depth of knowledge. I got awnsrs to all my protein related questions depth I have had for years but never found with such clarity. I had no concept of so many of the facts presented by him. absolutely fantastic. I am a Pulmonary/Critical care physician and follow you regularly on your shows. This show will help me tremendously educate and treat my patients and improve my diet as well. GRATITUDE TO YOU AND DR LAYMAN.
In this episode, we discuss:
0:00:00 - Intro
0:00:08 - Don’s background: from growing up on a farm to studying nutritional biochemistry
0:04:39 - Don’s philosophy on nutrition, muscle, and metabolism
0:18:10 - The controversial relationship between saturated fat and atherosclerosis
0:26:30 - The basics of protein and amino acids
0:33:46 - Origin and limitations of the current recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for protein intake
0:43:44 - Protein sources: determining quality, absorption rates, and how to track intake
0:51:35 - Leucine, lysine, and methionine: three important essential amino acids
0:57:35 - The vital role of ruminant animals in the production of quality protein
1:04:55 - The differing needs and impacts of dietary protein for a 16-year old compared to a 65-year old
1:12:50 - Consequences of protein deficiency in childhood
1:19:50 - Muscle protein synthesis: ideal timing, small meals vs. big meals, and more
1:27:51 - Protein needs of children
1:33:07 - How important is timing protein intake around training?
1:37:27 - The role of leucine in fatty acid oxidation by muscle
1:41:07 - High protein diets for fat loss: Results from Don’s clinical trials
1:55:24 - Influence of industry funding on nutrition studies
2:01:26 - Don’s thoughts on plant-based and synthetic “meats”
2:10:05 - Problems with epidemiological studies of dietary protein
Can you pin this to the top of the comments?
You deserve a million subscribers before the end of this year. I don't understand why I get unsubscribed all the time.
I subscribed many times already and I have to remember your name to avoid loosing your channel.
Wow. this is helpful 👍👍👍
Leucine activating mTor. Carbs activating too (through insulin I guess)
3.4g lysine (for protein synthesis) Low in plants 1g Methionine (for DNA RNA repair, synthesis of taurine, cysteine, glutathione) Low in Lentils
Ruminants, cows. 60 grams plant protein into 100grams balances protein.
300g protein body needs daily 1.6 per kg body mass intake. worse synthesis efficiency with age
Collagen turnover 100 days muscle protein 15-16days
Muscle needs 50gram protein to respond with growth. Exercise is catabolic no growth then. But after with proteins leucine initiator
2 hours window after
At night muscle is in catabolic state supplying organs which as liver still synthesise
Stu Philips Doug Patton Jones Luke Van
20-60g protein window for muscle utilisation 100% for liver
close to 50% protein dissolved before getting to blood 😲 except branch chained as leucine
Leucine inhibits pyruvate from getting to mitochondria spares glucose, promotes glucose recycling, keeping in blood, inhibiting it's oxidation and promoting fat oxidation in mitochondria.
Meals 30g 30 30 better than 10 20 60. first meal critical. Leucine activates mTor for 5 hours.
it felt like "the religious realm" all along.... but when you were somewhat aware of it you still kindly (or blindly if one were less charitable) accepeted all his upcycler'cow lobbying bs.
it also felt like given all the science (not only muscle fitness but also, health, zoonose, ecology etc) and/or philosophy pointing out to plant-based diet being superior some people will always be stuck at the tabbaco industry era... at least he still stated that the planet cannot run anymore animal protein (given all these are concentrated in the West and that the trophic level of human is 2.2, same as anchovy) and that health things are achievable as a non-carnist (ie. vegan). people I guess can still connect the dot to achieve a less obscurantist standpoint/behavior.
A nonetheless somewhat interesting conversation if one weren't naive about the underlying yet obvious ideological defensive narrative...
Please address the fact that the longest living people on the planet eat low protein diets. Icaria, Greece for example....
I love the comment at 1:48:50 regarding the carb eaters constantly talking about food, but not the protein eaters.
Satiety!❤️
That's foolishness to use that as a knock against carbs. These unnatural low-carb diets simply make your body shut down appetite because it's not the diet the body wants. I've eaten a hgih-carb diet for 30 years, and I have a healthy appetite and eat large. I'm not fat, and recently got a clean bill of health. I eat the good carbs, not processed.
This discussion is solid gold. Thanks sincerely to all involved for making this happen.
sorry but Don Layman sounds like Layne Norton. An ideologue masked up as a non-biased resource. Why is he in the vast minority in so strongly recommending so much animal protein? Is it because his sponsors are 1:57:53 Kraft Foods and The National Cattlemen's Beef Association? I couldn't tell you but it's really suspect.
Thank you Dr Attia & Dr Layman. Great discussion 👏👏
2:03:00 plant proteins are sufficient.
that's insanely good episode. hopefully Don comes for more
Interesting segment about eggs starts at 02:11:25 in this video.
Excellent‼️. Thanks👍
This is probably one of my favorite episodes you've done! I want to offer my own personal experience in case someone finds it helpful. 32 year old female, athletic my whole life, never been "overweight" in terms of BMI, but my weight has often fluctuated into the higher end of the normal range, mostly due to PCOS hormonal issues.
At 30, I finally got my PCOS under control, lost a bit of weight and maintained that for 2 years. But this year I decided I was ready to finally lose those infamous "last 10lbs". I already eat healthy, natural, whole/unprocessed foods. I'm already lifting weights and running marathons. What to change? Calorie counting is very stressful and wasn't something I could maintain in past attempts, but I needed to find an easy way to ensure I wasn't overeating, while still being satiated and getting all the nutrition I need for my high exercise level.
My doctor advised me exactly what Don states here. She convinced me to track only one metric: protein. As long as I hit a minimum of 100g of protein a day, and ideally closer to 120g, then the rest would likely fall into place. And she said another thing he did, which is to focus on getting the protein in every meal, split into 3-4 meals, starting with a good breakfast. I consumed most of the 100g of protein from meats, fish, eggs, dairy, and only used whey protein powder to top off if I wanted to reach 120g on hard training days. I still ate plenty of vegetables, legumes, seeds and some whole grain, but didn't even count the protein in some veg sources.
In following this plan, I quickly realized a few things - how previously I was falling short of that goal ( I thought I ate plenty of protein, but upon tracking discovered I didn't, especially with breakfast). I also realized how in eating all of this protein, I was very satisfied, had way more energy, and also didn't negatively impact my hormones or metabolism. Most importantly, I was consuming overall less calories. Frankly, it's just really hard to overeat when your meal is rich in protein. In the end, I was able to finally lose those last pounds without tracking calories or feeling deprived or low energy. Such a big win and something that is not a quick fix diet but a way of eating I can maintain for the rest of my life. I strongly urge others to give this method a try.
Can you be more specific about what you actually ate in a day. Very interested.
Bullshit, PCOS is hyperactivation of the theca-cells by insulin because of insulin resistance. Can be cured by a very low-fat diet.
Did so much proteïne not effect your stool?
Thank you for sharing! Very helpful info!!!
@@pspence1963 she said it. Eggs, meat, fish mostly animal protein and way protein in multiple meals 5 to 6 meals, over 50 grams of protein for breakfast and 30 to 40 grams of protein per meal to get about 80 to 120 grams total per day
Great interview!
As an endurance athlete, I found myself listening to this podcast. There is some interesting information here, but there is also a fair amount of cognitive dissonance as well.
1. Children's uptake of protein is very high and efficient but plant-based diets in schools are very dangerous? Because they will not get enough protein? Do you see the dissonance?
2. The downside of not getting enough protein is what?; A potentially small amount lean muscles mass loss? The upside is a dramatic decrease in cancer risk, where plant-based proteins are twice safe as animal based ones, but even so, how do you dispute Victor Longo's more protein=more cancer findings? That wasn't even discussed.
3. The famous "I eat wild caught meat" claim. Because everyone on the planet can eat wild caught meat. Stinks of non-sustainable privilege.
4. While training for my last marathon I freaked out because I put on 5 lbs even though I was training very hard and running 40+ miles a week. I am a non-protein supplementing vegan. I did a lean muscle mass test and it turns I had put on 5 lbs of muscle. At 54, I was eating about 80 grams of protein a day. (I tracked it ) and putting on muscle mass. My trainer wanted me to go to 140 grams of protein a day to lose weight, which as a vegan I found extraordinarily frustrating. There is no way to get that sort of protein on a vegan diet even eating just beans. Ironically, the whole issue that had me trying to lose weight in the first place is that I had put on too much muscle while on a non-supplemented vegan diet. Do you see the irony?
5. Does spending 40 million dollars with Gary Taubes failing to prove low carb diets are beneficial count as diet religion?
6. I will give Peter his props as an endurance athlete. I got here listening to his zone 2 advice which seems excellent. But as someone striving for longevity, I struggle with his continued promotion of animal foods. Maybe another 40 million will fix that too. Longo does agree that uptake of protein is important as you age to prevent frailty, but there are diminishing returns and potential risks of too much protein especially animal protein. Maybe next time they can discuss the links between with protein and cancer instead of worrying about how protein underfed us vegans seem to be and how our ideas are dangerous.
it's only a 100k to put peter on retainer. what a deal!
Cry more soy boy. Turns out that humans are meant to eat meat, which is probably why they taste like heaven compared to the cardboard tasting alternatives.
I wake up every morning with my fav dose of protein shot in my mouth 🤤🤤
Did any of the grant funders for Dr. Layman’s research allow him to focus on the relationship between animal protein and cancer growth? Did he ever ask the “Egg Board”, for example of which he headed.. if he could do a study on eggs affect on cancer? What about the affects After people have cancer? Correlation between animal protein and any affect on cancer? Positive or negative?
Do vegetarians get cancers too?
Yes but at lower rates of certain kinds
Fantastic conversation😺
I was hospitalized a year ago with diverticulitis, on antibiotics for a month, and I lost all my muscle, lost 16 lbs, went down to 109 from 126. I was working out 6X a week, in good shape at the time. It totally destroyed me, but I jumped right back in, took me a while, but I'm working out 6x week again. Still never gained it all back, just at 116 now. It's so hard.
Fascinating. I learned a lot.
The response here on alternative meats Beyond and Impossible was not informative. Beyond stock price and Burger King sales are irrelevant to nutrition. I'm glad this comment came immediately after the disclosure of funding/conflicts because it gives the viewer a better sense of the amplitude of those conflicts.
However, follow up questions would be helpful. Which ingredients in which products lack FDA approval? (They are substantially different products - Impossible is GMO soy and Beyond is pea protein.) Is he referring to the GMO heme in Impossible? (The ingredients in Beyond are obvious no novel, even to a nutrition novice.) What do we know about the process they are using? Is there a difference between the soy and protein products of which people should be aware?
The China comment is also bizzare since, if it refers to Beyond, that factory was opened specifically for Chinese market.
I understand that the prevailing bias here is toward meat based diets given the science, but a balanced discussion would make this more informative for people who, for whatever reason, won't eat meat.
Fantastic detail!
I listen to health and nutrition based podcasts every week. I've read the Muscle & Fitness since I was a young teen and grew up on a farm, played 3 sports competitively through high school... so protein ecosystems, nutrition, and fitness have been a big part of my life for decades. This is a top 10 all-time podcast I've ever listened to in terms of information. Wow.
am 68 now going from one meal a day to two ,with first and last meal with protein increased thank you for this information
my favorite subject ever on youtube
There was a lot of great information here. BUT, I also love the humanness where you see such genius but then when it comes to his disdain for fake meats like Beyond he’ll just say things that aren’t even true. Here’s the actual ingredients of a Beyond Burger:
Water, pea protein*, expeller-pressed canola oil, refined coconut oil, rice protein, natural flavors, dried yeast, cocoa butter, methylcellulose, and less than 1% of potato starch, salt, potassium chloride, beet juice color, apple extract, pomegranate concentrate, sunflower lecithin, vinegar, lemon juice concentrate, vitamins and minerals (zinc sulfate, niacinamide [vitamin B3], pyridoxine hydrochloride [vitamin B6], cyanocobalamin [vitamin B12], calcium pantothenate)
Also, the meat that most people consume is not “natural” …those animals are pumped full of all kinds of chemicals and antibiotics. And same for milk. If it’s such a great food why does it need to be fortified. That is “supplements” right there, the very thing he’s speaking against.
Also, you don’t need “synthetics” if you don’t eat meat. And the people I see taking the most supplements are the ones who consume the most “bro” style meat heavy diets, and they drink milk. If it’s such perfect food why then also take whey protein?
Overall great stuff nonetheless. 🙏
My other favorite part was when he said you “could” do a vegan diet but you’d need a lot of information. 🤣🤣🤣
Hopefully you see the irony in that with how much information, research, data, etc is in just this one podcast alone. 💯
Grandioso gracias Eleni🎉❤
I currently take in 134 grams protein daily (thank you Layne Norton Carbon Diet Coach app). Eggs, egg whites, fish, shellfish, beans, legumes and other animal based proteins daily. Don't really find it that hard once you start paying attention to it. It is a rare day that I have to take in protein powders. Enjoyed listening to this one immensely.
My workouts have improved, my strength has improved and I am not getting hangry.
What would you typically start your day with?
You know, something that frequently occurs to me is just how damn expensive daily protein intake is for achieving peak fitness really is.
In other words, if one were just to think to yourself casually about what you think your protein needs would be post-workout and throughout the week you'd think you could just handle it with chicken breast and a few other sources which are of moderate expensiveness. Not so.
Because realistically speaking, with the amount of protein people recommend for building muscle mass and peak fitness, you're looking at huge amounts of protein like 140 plus grams per day. No way is that being covered when you're just finishing up a workout with some chicken breast and a sandwich post-workout.
And then if you get a wise-guy who says, "Well just buy protein powder", ok, see? Now we start getting pricey. Most of those gigantic tubosaurs of protein powder are only 7 to 14 days of powder and usually not enough in an average recommended serving to cover those daily needs without wiping out your supply in three or four days.
I just don't get it. How are people achieving these massive numbers (to me) that are actually just the minimum numbers recommended without being inordinately wealthy, dedicating an inordinate amount of their weekly income to this venture, or eating protein-rich animal foods in giant amounts throughout the day?
dont forget 1 cup of peanuts a day! 40 grams of protein right there and take a shake if your calorie intake is too high with all that eating.
@@allthingsbrazil Who is this? Jimmy Carter?
You're thanking that MD fool for getting you to eat all that excess protein fat and toxins?
So, eating a lb of ground beef would pretty much cover all of those in a day! And splitting it in two meals, say maybe 8 oz at 8 am and the other 8 oz at 4 pm, would allow for perfect muscle and skeletal muscle synthesis. Is that right?
1 lb of 80% ground beef (according to Cron-o-meter) has 1152 kcal, 115 g protein, 73 g fat, no carbs. 8.9 g Leucine, 2.9 g Methionine, 9.5 g Lysine. Not too shabby!
Thanks great episode!
The part early about mobility ... I put this on pause and that got me on the bike this morning. A few miles later, I'm back now and listening to the rest of the video. I'll be 74 in a couple of weeks. Animal protein is getting pretty expensive.
I eat a bit less meat because of this but add a protein shake (brown rice) to get to my target macros.
@@adem_gun sorry... making up the difference in brown rice protein (?) doesn't fit at all with what Dr. Layman has said.
Old Roscoe - everything is getting expensive.
Just sayin 😄
First...lifting weights is far better for mTOR (thus muscle protein synthesis forward), than is cardio, (i.e. your cycling). Press that bike over your head and do 3 sets of 6-10 squats with it 🤣
Second - high quality animal protein is, imo, not that cost prohibitive - to the point the average person's budget for their quality dietary protein intake would justify not cutting back on it (imo).
High quality dietary protein is THAT important (especially in older adults), that our health status cannot afford to write it off, or cut back on it because. "It's gotten expensive.'
(you've only said, 'its gotten expensive", so hopefully you aren't considering cutting back.
I'd say, to that mindset... (again I realize you haven't said you are cutting back), but for those who might be thinking its too expensive to 'afford' - find a way! - there are lots of things in our life we can afford to cut back on (Starbucks, premium streaming services, entertainment, dining out, etc.)
IMO, high quality protein (and resistance training)...neither of these are anything we should consider cutting back on.
Just my 2 cents😃. (forgive the 'lecture' aspect of my 2 cents, please🙄)...not really directed at you, anyway.
It's just that your post about the high expense of animal protein - prompted me to voice my opinion on the subject🤗
@@adem_gun brown rice is high in arsenic, Dr. Berg says.
@@barbarafairbanks4578 Agree very much with you. My health is built around grassfed and finished beef, lamb, seafood, although I search for 30 percent off conventional meat early mornings at my grocery. I get the right amount for my age, weight, and activity, and dont overindulge so it doesn't go to fat. I have cut alot of other products out. I'm low income, also living off savings since the poison dart prohibits my working as a nurse. Health first!
27:00 protein conversion starts
35:00 everyone needs a different amount of protein
41:40 why are we talking about nitrogen
48:35 protein quality score.
53:40 Leucine and MTOR
Leucine
Lysine
methionine
These are the 3 amino acids he is using to make a protein quality score. So they are the important ones.
I was a kid that had a family that cared nothing of feeding me or healthy meals. Until I played sports, I had no clue until I witnessed normal families. I was a great QB ,but it was too late the damage was done. At 62 now, I am in probably better shape now, after some trying medical years, probably due to 16 years of bad everything as a child. This podcast was utterly amazing for me. I understand it now.
fantastic information.
Thank you for having experienced scientists talk about this stuff rather than fitness "influencers". Keep up the good work
One really big concern I have with TH-cam is the lack of qualification to actually give advice or post videos on these often highly complex, specialist areas. The algorithm only discriminates by popularity to view, not by accuracy or quality of the advice or information provided.
That can be a concern with longevity related content, because it can lead to outright wrong conclusions being provided in clickbait format, over content such as this, which is long form and nuanced.
@@Libertas_P77 Exactly this episode was highly inaccurate and low quality.
@@erastvandoren please point us to a better quality information
@@markor8355 Episode 140 with Gerald Shulman, for example.
@@erastvandoren thank you erast
What a great podcast l loved all the information. Thankyou !
Cronometer calculates each amino acid found in your (mixed foods) diet. I don't think it accounts for absorption, but it can give you an idea of individual amino acid consumption.
Eating around the Bay are my favorite vlogs!
As a RN and powerlifter (and nutrition nerd) I was so excited anticipating this podcast! I L-O-V-E this topic matter and it was delivered very eloquently and flawlessly. I can not get enough of this content. Thank you :) It is so nice to hear the items that nobody wants to discuss with me-riveting!!
So what is he saying, are we eating enough or do we need to supplement?
Very informative for me thank you.
Thank you for this. Grew up in DeKalb, IL (where corn is king) graduated from high school in '72. Had tons of friends who went to Illinois State and U of I. Thank you, Don (and Peter, as well) for teaching me at 67 years old what no one else has!
Hi Duane. I'm 70, grew up in Chicago and went to The U of I at Chicago Circle. I'm really proud of Don.
Agreed!
I didn’t know Don was an Illini!!
Great info!
Many good points and observations, but am curious how they square this with all the studies that show a lower protein diets lead to increased longevity and better health compared to high protein consumption.
Best vodeo pulling alot of ideas together thank you
Listened to maybe 2 dozen interviews with Don Layman over the last few years and the clarity of information in this podcast is in a league of its own.Every minute well spent...if only all interviews with researchers were this enlightening on the internet.
What? This was nothing but misinformation.
@@erastvandoren
Explain....
Mostly misinformation, from a guy who has made a career out of shilling for the egg and meat industry. Longevity research and long-lived populations both show that limited protein when younger and moderate protein when older are optimum for longevity. Bodybuilders are not known for longevity and while I enjoy some of Peter's podcasts, he is dead wrong on nutrition and is dismissive about research, because it doesn't conform to his own bias. And then he calls those who disagree "religious..."
@@greengraybear7925
Interesting points, I'll look into those.
I'm not sure I agree about your assessment on bodybuilders though. Is it the high protein they consume, or the dozens of chemicals they put into their bodies?
@GreenGrayBear They discussed exactly that when discussing lifespan vs healthspan, no? Lower protein may extend longevity, but it reduces reproductive health and health in general. That's a tradeoff you have to decide for yourself.
Like yeah, your body doesn't turnover cells and age as quickly if you're not giving it the building blocks it needs to carry out its everyday functions, makes perfect sense.
Which part is misinformation?
56:10
Leucine: 42 milligrams = 3.4 g
Lysine: 38 milligrams = 2.7 g
Methionine: 19 mg = 1.3 g
I am a very fit and healthy 65 year old female (competitive cyclist) who became vegan 10 years ago. I was always careful to consume at least 50 to 60g of plant protein daily. I have always done resistance training. A few years ago I noticed that my once VERY muscular legs and glutes were slowly reducing in size. I dropped 2 pant sizes in this period at the same body weight. I finally had to change my diet to attempt to halt or even reverse the sarcopenia. It's only been 6 months of switching my protein sources to poultry, fish, eggs and non fat yogurt but I've put a full inch on my quads and a half inch on my calves. So even as a senior, it is totally possible to add muscle and avoid the tragedy of sarcopenia. I used to follow the vegan influencers (like Chef AJ, McDougal, Popper, Bernard, Esselstyn) and have always felt very uncomfortable with how sarcopenic they look. McDougal broke a hip in his shower last year and Chef AJ looks like a stiff wind would break her in half. I'm glad I stepped off that strict vegan religion. I plan to have a bone density scan this year to make sure I caught this problem in time.
50-60 g of protein per day is very little
Yeah vegans often look unhealthy. Says all there is to know about that diet.
Wow! I’m so glad you commented! I am going off an 18 year vegan diet because as the years progressed; especially after age 40, I could not eat enough to ever be satiated. I also began having a chronic low level anxiety. I felt as though I could never stuff enough in; they kept up the same mantras of their echo chamber: ‘eat more starch, it’s the pleasure trap, keep a calm stable brain, it’s ok to eat large amounts’. The 1st 10 years I’d followed Dr Fuhrman to the letter and then began following the ones you’d mentioned. Anxiety was GONE within 48 hours of consuming 1G/ideal pound of body weight! Satiated with 1st meal and the entire last 8 days! I’ve already dropped about 7 or more pounds slowly over the 8 days, skin not nearly as dry, and random muscle discomforts, and rashes gone by day 6. So grateful to have stumbled upon this channel. So many people suffering and given the same response repeatedly! Hats off to those who strive on a vegan diet but we are all quite individualized.
How are the animals going, who were shot in the head? You''re concerned about a half inch on your calves, and an inch on your quads. You've taken everything from those innocent beings.
Have you seen The Game Changers yet?@@stuffylamb3420
Either Don Layman is possibly confused, or I am.
At around 11:00 he represents the Randle hypothesis as saying that fatty acids acting through DAG “cause all the problems” related to insulin resistance.
Rather, the Randle hypothesis states that the products of FA oxidation (acetyl-CoA & NADH) lead essentially to a chain of feedback inhibitions such that ultimately intracellular glucose accumulates and prevents further glucose transport. So Randle et al thought the cell gets clogged up with glucose and just can’t take any more, and I didn’t think they attributed any of that to DAG, as Layman would have it.
Shulman et al have shown Randle was incorrect, that in fact increased DAG acting through activated PKC-theta ultimately inhibits glucose transport. In the insulin resistant muscle cell, intracellular glucose is low not high.
Jason Fung might be surprised to learn this too.
I haven't watched this yet, but just wanted to comment how awesome it is that there's a Dr. Layman out there
I just wanted to comment how much a waste of space your super-intellectual comment is. I see your channel has a whopping big 504 subscribers, Moen. Mo money blues!
I wonder what actually goes through the mind of someone to comment on a video they haven’t even watched! The very definition of a waste of oxygen.
Thank you!
I want to know for the essential amino acids found in animal protein (beef, pork, chicken, fish etc.), how often do you need to consume to reap the benefits and/or keep the needed levels circulating regularly? That is, do you need to consume a certain amount daily, weekly, or somewhere in between? I am about to start eating red meat again and I'd rather eat just enough of what I need than too much or too little.
Not sure exactly, but Don mentioned mTor stays active for 5 hours after a high leucine protein intake. So, he recommended focusing on high protein (leucine) intake at meals 1 and 3.
Every meal, 50 grams or close to it a meal. 3 meals a day. You can use the PDCAAS( protein digestability score), and the DIASS ( digestible amino acid score) to help you make the best choices for you. The higher the score the better obviously. Don't skip breakfast 😉✌️
🎯 Key points for quick navigation:
00:00:02 *🎙️ Peter Attia and Don Layman discuss a shared interest in nutrition through the lens of biochemistry, distancing themselves from dogmatic approaches.*
00:01:27 *🌱 Don Layman grew up on a farm, which sparked his interest in agriculture and food, ultimately guiding him toward a career in nutritional biochemistry.*
00:03:36 *📚 Layman's academic journey involved unexpected turns, including a master's in biochemistry and a Ph.D. that aligned with his interests in nutrition and muscle metabolism.*
00:05:01 *💪 Layman believes that nutrition should focus on two key tissues: the brain and skeletal muscle, essential for health and longevity.*
00:07:15 *⚖️ Muscle metabolism is crucial for glucose and fat utilization, influencing insulin sensitivity and overall metabolic health.*
00:09:15 *📉 Layman suggests that chronic elevation of insulin can lead to insulin resistance, a significant factor in type 2 diabetes.*
00:11:17 *🔄 The role of fats versus carbohydrates in metabolism is debated; excessive carbohydrates can be toxic, leading to health issues like diabetes.*
00:12:57 *🍽️ The concept of de novo lipogenesis (the conversion of glucose to fat) is complex and context-dependent, varying significantly with energy intake.*
00:16:03 *🍏 Distribution of meals and protein intake is highlighted, with Layman emphasizing that fewer meals can be thermogenically advantageous.*
00:20:11 *🔍 Reflection on Ancel Keys' legacy reveals evolving views on diet, particularly regarding saturated fats and the dangers of trans fats.*
00:23:11 *📊 The Minnesota Coronary Experiment raised questions about the link between fat intake and heart disease, revealing complex and sometimes counterintuitive results.*
00:24:42 *❓ Don Layman expresses uncertainty about specific studies, highlighting the need for ongoing research and critical analysis in nutrition science.*
25:07 *⚖️ Scientific theories, like cholesterol and saturated fat, evolve over time and show mixed results in studies.*
26:43 *💪 Protein is crucial for muscle synthesis and preserving lean tissue; many people struggle to meet their protein needs.*
27:54 *📊 Essential amino acids are more important than protein as a whole; we need to focus on these nine specific acids.*
29:36 *🍽️ Unlike vitamins, protein has specific requirements based on essential amino acids that serve various metabolic roles.*
34:46 *📏 RDA (Recommended Dietary Allowance) is based on nitrogen balance, but may underestimate protein requirements, especially in non-growing adults.*
38:23 *🔬 Nitrogen balance measurements are complicated and often lead to underestimations of the actual protein needs of individuals.*
43:04 *🍖 Animal-based proteins provide all essential amino acids, making them highly beneficial compared to plant proteins which may lack complete profiles.*
46:02 *🥗 Protein quality is assessed by amino acid composition and bioavailability, with animal proteins generally scoring higher than plant-based options.*
49:31 *🔍 Calculating accurate protein intake based on DIAS scores for various foods can be cumbersome and impractical for the average person.*
00:49:57 *📊 Protein labels often misrepresent actual protein content based on outdated scoring systems, leading to misconceptions about dietary intake.*
00:50:40 *⚖️ Essential amino acid scores, particularly from plants, are often underestimated, necessitating better assessment methods.*
00:52:20 *🍽️ Focus on three essential amino acids-leucine, lysine, and methionine-can simplify dietary protein tracking and ensure adequate intake.*
00:54:41 *🔄 Leucine activates mTOR for muscle protein synthesis, while insulin affects its regulation across other tissues, emphasizing the need for balanced meal timing.*
00:56:16 *🥚 Methionine and lysine are critical for muscle protein synthesis, with lysine typically being deficient in grain-based diets.*
00:58:33 *🐄 Ruminants like cows upcycle plant materials, converting low-quality proteins into higher-quality amino acids, showcasing their essential role in our food system.*
01:01:07 *⚗️ Specific gut bacteria in ruminants synthesize amino acids from non-protein nitrogen sources, enhancing the nutritional value of meat.*
01:03:41 *🤔 The decline in anabolic efficiency with age can be countered by increasing protein intake, particularly essential amino acids.*
01:05:59 *🏋️♂️ Muscle protein synthesis declines with age, but older adults can still respond effectively to higher protein intakes similar to younger individuals.*
01:11:29 *📉 Hormonal changes with aging impact protein synthesis, making it crucial to focus on protein quality and exercise for muscle health in older adults.*
01:13:54 *🧬 Early malnutrition stunts muscle and cellular development, leading to lifelong obesity risks.*
01:15:05 *🍽️ Childhood malnutrition can manifest as either kwashiorkor (swollen bellies) or marasmus (skin and bones), depending on protein quality and caloric intake.*
01:19:00 *⚠️ Concerns exist regarding the reduction of animal protein in school lunches and potential health impacts on children.*
01:22:39 *📈 Optimal protein intake for muscle growth is between 25 and 60 grams per meal, emphasizing the need for distribution throughout the day.*
01:23:07 *🔢 Protein should be considered as an absolute number rather than a percentage of calories for effective dietary planning.*
01:24:02 *🌅 The first meal of the day is crucial for protein synthesis, especially after an overnight fast, to prevent muscle breakdown.*
01:27:02 *🏋️♂️ Post-exercise protein intake is more effective for recovery than pre-exercise due to muscle being in a catabolic state during workouts.*
01:35:00 *⏳ The anabolic window for protein intake post-exercise is generally within two hours for untrained individuals but less significant for those who are well-trained.*
01:36:24 *⚗️ Muscle can effectively utilize 25-60 grams of protein per meal, while the liver can process more without using all for muscle synthesis.*
01:37:31 *🔍 Leucine plays a crucial role in both muscle protein synthesis and fatty acid oxidation, highlighting its importance in diets.*
01:37:47 *⚡ Zone two training focuses on maximizing fat oxidation while keeping lactate levels low.*
01:39:11 *🧪 Leucine activates CPT-1 enzyme, enhancing fat oxidation and sparing glucose for the brain.*
01:41:13 *🍽️ Three strategies for weight loss include calorie reduction, macronutrient manipulation, and time-restricted eating.*
01:43:31 *🔄 High protein intake promotes satiety and supports muscle preservation during weight loss.*
01:47:12 *📉 Higher protein diets resulted in more fat loss and better insulin stability compared to high-carb diets.*
01:49:02 *🥗 Subjects on high protein diets reported lower hunger levels, leading to better dietary compliance.*
01:51:22 *💪 Older adults lose muscle mass more quickly than younger adults, emphasizing the need for adequate protein intake.*
01:53:36 *🥚 Distribution of protein intake across meals enhances net protein synthesis and may aid weight loss.*
01:58:42 *🧬 Industry funding has historically driven nutrition research due to NIH's focus on disease-related studies.*
02:00:21 *📜 Marketing regulations differ significantly between animal products and processed plant foods, affecting consumer perceptions.*
02:01:43 *🍔 Many companies are experimenting with synthetic and plant-based meats, but their technical feasibility and sustainability are in question.*
02:02:39 *🌱 Plant-based proteins are important, but synthetic proteins may not be viable due to economic and environmental concerns.*
02:03:21 *📉 The popularity of products like Beyond Burger may be waning, as initial interest does not translate to sustained consumption.*
02:04:30 *🚚 Processing and transportation of plant-based proteins can increase greenhouse gas emissions, undermining their environmental benefits.*
02:05:14 *🥛 Misleading labeling of plant-based products (e.g., "milk") can create nutritional confusion regarding protein content and quality.*
02:06:48 *👩👧 Many parents may unknowingly provide their children with protein-deficient diets due to reliance on plant-based options.*
02:09:05 *💪 Female individuals often struggle to consume adequate daily protein, highlighting the challenges of a plant-based diet.*
02:10:30 *📊 The definition of "high protein" is often misunderstood, highlighting the need for clarity in dietary recommendations and research.*
02:12:07 *🍳 Research suggests minimal egg consumption may not significantly impact health risks, challenging previous dietary guidelines.*
Made with HARPA AI
So hard to get enough protein, especially trying to be environmentally conscientious. I've been having a lot of eggs, yogurt (use greek yogurt like a sour cream replacement), edemame, tofu mixed with my meat. This morning had 4 eggs with 2% salty greek yogurt with gochugaru, so that's about 24g protein from the eggs and 16 from the yogurt, but I feel like I'm stuffing myself to eat all that as a 34 year old man.
Right with you
EXACTLY! Why do I not hear these experts comment on this? It's so obvious that you're either going to be spending tons of money on protein powder or you're going to be eating huge portion sizes or you're going to be eating throughout the day
It's something that frequently occurs to me: just how damn expensive daily protein intake is for achieving peak fitness really is.
In other words, if one were just to think to yourself casually about what you think your protein needs would be post-workout and throughout the week you'd think you could just handle it with chicken breast and a few other sources which are of moderate expensiveness. Not so.
Because realistically speaking, with the amount of protein people recommend for building muscle mass and peak fitness, you're looking at huge amounts of protein like 140 plus grams per day. No way is that being covered when you're just finishing up a workout with some chicken breast and a sandwich post-workout.
And then if you get a wise-guy who says, "Well just buy protein powder", ok, see? Now we start getting pricey. Most of those gigantic tubosaurs of protein powder are only 7 to 14 days of powder and usually not enough in an average recommended serving to cover those daily needs without wiping out your supply in three or four days.
I just don't get it. How are people achieving these massive numbers (to me) that are actually just the minimum numbers recommended without being inordinately wealthy, dedicating an inordinate amount of their weekly income to this venture, or eating protein-rich animal foods in giant amounts throughout the day?
I am in control!!! ❤
This is truly one of the best podcasts you've done.
Worst
@@erastvandoren you’re not very convincing
@@wbeckmann6965 Isn't it self-evident? Layman is industry-funded shill, zero knowledge, lots of mistakes.
Thank you
Did he ever share a protein guideline for optimizing health to plan around? Is it 1.2 or 1.6/kg. Or just 120gms daily no matter what?
120grams minimum. 150 better, higher if older, training or trying to regain muscle.
@@delishme2 is that for a man or woman?
I always enjoy it!
Anybody else here radically changing their diet composition and timing as a result of this video? I feel like I've been sabotaging myself for years now. Can't wait for breakfast tomorrow.
Low carb and IF have absolutely led to muscle wasting for me. I haven’t been able to figure out if it was just the intermittent fasting, or having to few carbs. I’m beginning to think it’s likely both.
Agreed 100%. I have whey protein powder sitting around I haven’t been taking but that is about to change
Delaying my ‘breakfasts’ til way after Noon time - what a disaster I’ve brought upon myself.
ALWAYS take ‘grandma’s’ advice first - generations of productive humans ate a large, full fat & protein breakfast - At Breakfast! Argh to all these hip online advocates of more extreme approaches.
@@eugeniebreida Agreed. However you may want to give a listen to the podcasts he does with Dr. Lyon also. In those it is made more clear that fasting or having your first meal later in the day is not an issue. The point is that your first meal of the day while you are in a catabolic state whether it be 7am or 1pm should be high in protein in the 30 - 50 gram range to stimulate mtor and muscle protein synthesis.
@@timroberts9651 Preserving lean tissue on low carb, esp with IF as well, requires:
1 robust ketosis; ketones have pronounced protein-sparing activity. Might need MCT oil supplements to keep ketonemia up.
2 HIGH POTASSIUM, high base. Acid-ash diet erodes lean tissue, and K may have anabolic or anti-catabolic effect independent of acid/base issue. Need multiple grams of K per day, preferably as bicarb (base). Impossible to get enough from diet unless you chew greens all day.
3 Supplementary glycine and NAC (cysteine) -- very important. See posts below, copied from this page (were posted in reply to other people; I would link to my comments but youtube does not allow direct linking to specific comments).
4 Supplementary testosterone and human growth hormone. Yes, I know, a pain in the ass, and HGH is expensive, but very very powerful anabolic effects, much more powerful than dietary anything.
POSTED ELSEWHERE, duped for your convenience:
alan2102
@David Less a matter of "demonizing" methionine. More a matter of facing its downsides.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7911310/
www.fightaging.org/archives/2019/09/methionine-metabolism-and-the-pace-of-aging/
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213231721000884
My own strategy is to minimize MET intake while supplementing liberally with the more-desirable byproducts of MET such as TAU and CYS (health-promoting and probably pro-longevity in themselves). CYS in the form of NAC
alan2102
Enhance benefit of methionine restriction with supplementary glycine and NAC:
twitter.com/alan2102z/status/1543369161602113537
Glycine also spares leucine and has anabolic effects:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27094036/
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34519439/
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31803749/
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27225947/
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33122122/
Note on PMID 34519439: "Branched-chain amino acid did NOT improve lean body mass as compared with glycine", i.e. glycine performed BETTER than BCAAs/leucine!
CYS: numerous health and anti-aging benefits, not least pro-anabolism and favorable body comp change (less fat, more lean); best when teamed with ~10X glycine (i.e. one gram CYS to 10 grams glycine, or thereabouts):
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26362762/
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21795440/
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1569588/
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8841951
56:00 methionine, eggs, and ruminants
This is a great episode. I do have questions though. How much protein does a senior who is trying to gain muscle eat? I've read 1.2 g per k of body weight. Also, how do you eat four meals a day and also intermittent fast?
He mentions that in the episode. 1.5g or higher per day, quality of that protein important ( use PDCAAS score and DIAAS score to find the best), but essentially Meat, eggs and milk. Soy, Whey and pea good too. Like calories, not all proteins are equal. No to intermittent fasting, not necessary with higher protein, lower Carb, in fact detrimental as lengthens catabolic state in the morming ( muscle eating). Breakfast protein is essential for waking up mTOR and firing up your system, so a good 45-50g of protein at Breakfast is essential, and Dinner Protein the second most important meal. Lunch meh, it's the filler to make up the difference to 150g per day from the other two meals. Hope that helped 😊.
Trying to learn about protein and need to rewatch this over and over. I must have done damage to my system being a vegetarian half my life not eating much protein at all. Only in the last few months have I been trying to intake protein but around 1:23 or so when we talk about older adults needing the full amount of protein to have effect is so helpful to learn. Thank you Dr. Attia and Dr. Layman!
Vegan diets don't lack protein. This myth is old and tired. I've eaten a semi-fruitarian vegan diet for 30 years, and recently got a clean bill of health.
The animals people eat for protein, all eat plant-based.
Hmmmm. Well lots of issues here. I think you should have Dr. Layman on again with Dr. Greger to debate the plant protein vs animal protein issue. He says a lot of things here that according to many videos on Dr. Greger's website, are completely inaccurate based on science.
Wow learn so much I never knew!
This was one of the most practically useful episodes I’ve heard yet. Fits into a very small area of a ven diagram of things I don’t know much about (nutrition), things that are practically important principles for daily life, and things that much of the common wisdom seems to be wrong about. Always love hearing someone who’s studied a topic for the majority of their life get asked basic practical questions about that topic, and then hearing them explain their answers. Incredibly helpful.
The most useful of any except for episode about lipids or Omega 3 lol
One of the worst episodes. Doesn't beat Taubes, of course.
Hello Jim,
If you have a little time,
and if it’s not a trouble,
Could you please give couple of points, in terms of practice actionable takeaways. Please 🙏
Something like
EAT THIS
THIS MUCH
THIS OFTEN
Ur small
Great it resonates 🙏 I cannot agree further! This is episode is very helpful and very practical.
1:03:21 I don't understand this argument. A life is life. The plant is no less living, because it doesn't have a nervous system. Furthermore you kill many invertebrates when you eat say raspberries. But anyway, I want to ask two questions for the people who do not eat animal-based protein:
1:10:00 For the vegans, wouldn't it make more sense to add EAAs, leucine, lysine, etc to their diet, than just more protein? (That's of course on top of the protein one consumes.) Also, are there any EAA or leucine supplements, that are plant-based, vegan friendly?
What a great episode. I wish he would have discussed supplemental Amino acids a little. If you're total protein from food per day is lower, would supplementing eaa's make up for it?
Yes, and if it absorbs is my concern
Deep. Thanks.
Love it, Don Laymen is the protein OG, good to see him on camera, we need to see him more on these popular podcasts and shows!
Him?
2:05:39 cashew milk sounds a bit better than nut juice 😅
My knowledge about the relationship between protein and health has just been increased exponentially! Thanks for a GREAT episode!
Amazing guest an comtent!👏
Hands down the best podcast i have watched about protein
The part about ruminant animals upcycling amino acids from plant nitrogen was fascinating.
On the Minnesota Coronary Experiment 20:45, I wish peter had said more about the possible interpretations of this study because I think it's an incredibly powerful study. LDL went down, and CVD went up. Saturated fat went down, and CVD went up. This was an incredibly well-controlled study since people couldn't leave and were being spoon-fed. This type of study is so expensive that it just can't be done cheaply and the fact that they didn't publish and hid data should tell you everything.
I think the implications of the study are clear, and I'm curious why Peter has such a hard time accepting its results.
So true. Peter is extremely smart but IMO he is wrong on ApoB causing heart disease. He seems to have a strong bias in that regard.
Thanks for the valuable comment.
I had a heart attack 6/5/23…cholesterol 140, ldl 90, …hdl 40, triglycerides 300
He has a lot of friends that are vegans, so he's not willing to expressly say that a high saturated fat/animal protein diet is healthier than a high seed oil/high carb diet
Very good advice from the best mind on earth .❤Pakistan❤.Mumtaz Ali
Ok im not a nutritionist or bio chemist So some of the conversation I was able to follow but most of it im lost. How can you break down this information for the everyday regular folk
1:00 … ruminants eat the nitrogen processed by bacteria in plants & we eat the denser package of that… the ruminants. 👍👍👍
This was a serious time commitment but worth it! I had to replay several sections along with copious googling to try to keep up with you guys. You've caused me to completely rethink my plans. I'm 59, about 6'1" and 200 pounds. I need to drop some fat, but I'm abandoning my plans to fast my way down. I think I'm just too old to risk loss of lean muscle. Instead, I'm going to focus on increasing activity, especially resistance training.
Amazing. Thanks 🙏
This was so incredibly enlightening. I've always known that protein was important but having it explained in a more simple way puts things in perspective meal wise. I've been learning about nutrition for years now and I've not seen anyone say make sure you get your required protein first before anything else. It seems to be more of an aside such as eat a moderate amount of meat with lots of vegetables but now I feel it's the opposite and you don't need a lot of vegetables to get the required gut health effects.
amazing chat
This is one of the most educational videos on protein that I have ever listened to. Thank you so much for interviewing Don.
Regard the minimum 30-40 grams of protein in the first meal to trigger muscle protein synthesis. Can I say that the studies were done using protein powder? How do we recalibrate this for someone eating animal protein with fats and everything else? And given the delayed stomach emptying and maybe slower digestion compared to powder protein. Would the same 30-40 grams of say a steak have the same effect or do we need more of it? For someone over 40 years and studies showing lower absorption, does that number double to 80 grams due to poor absorption of protein? Or is the 40 grams has already factored in the impact of aging?
The body creates _saturated_ fat from excess carbs?
I caught that as well and wish they expanded on it. Especially interested in how this could affect LDL and ApoB.
Sure
@@zed5129 Body fat is composed of adipose tissue, which is made up of adipocytes (fat cells) and a network of blood vessels and nerves. Adipocytes store triglycerides (a type of fat) and release them as energy when needed by the body.
In addition to triglycerides, body fat also contains other types of fats, such as cholesterol, phospholipids, and free fatty acids. It also contains various proteins, hormones, and other molecules that regulate metabolism and other body processes.
The proportion of different types of fat in the body can vary depending on factors such as diet, exercise, genetics, and age. For example, a diet high in saturated fat can increase the proportion of saturated fat in body fat stores, while regular exercise can help to reduce overall body fat and promote the storage of healthier types of fat.
When are anabolic steroids okay? Not asking as a young man or "for a friend", but if an older person loses so much lean muscle mass from injury/bedrest, and that is so detrimental...? Around 1:50:00
Best Drive podcast to date ! One question I have that I don't think was brought up was the use of EAA's or BCAA's as supplements , lots of talk about types and qualities of different proteins to get in the specific MTOR activating amino acids, but what about going right to the source and consuming EAA supplements directly ???
That's what I've been wondering.
I listened to first hour doing my cardio. Now listening to last hour while eating my dinner. I learned alot & enjoyed this video.
Congrats. And thank you for all the great information. I'm sure you're going to nail it in 2024.
There's so much information in this episode. I hope Don returns for part 2.
I wish they discussed longevity and blue zone diets. I feel like he contradicted himself with his critique of non dairy "milk". He mentioned low amounts of protein are only recognized by the liver (paraphrasing). So one shouldn't obtain their protein from milk. This doesn't apply to children but there's no problem with an adult drinking non dairy.
We shouldn't obtain our protein from "Nut Milks" aka Nut Juice is what he was saying. And as he mentioned having a glass of milk (approx 8g protein) alone is going straight to your liver anyway, even though its a far superior source. You need to have it as part of a meal and get those grams up to 40 -50 gram total for the branch chains to say " high quality protein" and the muscles to take the bulk of it. The rest will go to your liver..
At 57:34 Don explains that the bacteria in a ruminant animals stomach produces/up-cycles plant proteins into perfect protein structures from 60 grams of plant protein, and the nitrogen from the soil, into 100 grams of complete, human-compatible, protein. If true, this may be the most significant argument against vegetarian agriculture. Mono crop agriculture strip mines the soil, while regenerative agriculture revitalizes the soil, AND produces the most efficient food/fuel/energy source for humans.
0:51:35 - Leucine, lysine, and methionine: three important essential amino acids
so interesting!
This is one of the most informative and practical sessions i have ever heard in any podcast or confrance. Thanks both to Peter and Don!
Not enough protein...maybe why, after 12 hours, I'm ready for bed. These are all the topics I've been trying to learn about. I will definitely be increasing daily proteins.
Much appreciated!
@@bellakrinkle9381 have you read up on ketones and the brain? Your body may not be utilizing glucose effectively (may be insulin resistant, most people are) and worth shifting body into ketosis to be flexible to use both. This can highly impact your energy..this is coming from someone that is diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome..changed my life! Proteins and fats come together anyway ;)
This very interesting finding is assumed in that brought out in the book The omnivore’s Dilemma.
Please Peter ,have Dr. Stuart McGill on the podcast
Agree.
Fascinated talk. I know that i didn't know anything about the subject
don clearly has a wealth of knowledge but many of the points he made here were pedantic or missed the mark altogether.
for all of the emphasis he placed on things such as protein quantity and quality, where is the subsequent widespread protein inadequacy in the american population?
if plant based proteins are so poor when it comes to hypertrophy and don believes that muscles play a major role in our common chronic diseases, where is the data showing higher mortality in populations eating mostly or solely plants? shouldn’t we focus on outcome data and not get caught up in the weeds? additionally, he overlooks that replacing some animal proteins with plant proteins likely confers a net positive effect, as a result of components such as soluble fiber, polyphenols, resistant starch etc.
moreover, i acknowledge that don said that scaling animal farming is not sustainable but he also took a shot at the sustainability of plant based proteins. there is clear scientific consensus that plant based options are far superior when it comes their environmental impact and it’s not even close. also, most of the plants like soy that we grow go to feed livestock anyway.
don made his biases exceedingly obvious. does he truly believe that meatless monday’s in nyc schools is taking a risk? that one vegetarian meal a week will have any negative consequences on the students’ health? furthermore, no one considers beyond or impossible burgers a health food. they were made to be a more sustainable and ethical option that doesn’t compromise much on taste. he also has an issue with the naming of some alternative foods when soy milk, peanut butter, coconut meat, coconut milk etc have been around forever and caused no issue. i could keep going but i’ll leave it there.
good.
You make some good points, but.
You write: "if plant based proteins are so poor when it comes to hypertrophy and don believes that muscles play a major role in our common chronic diseases, where is the data showing higher mortality in populations eating mostly or solely plants?" Possible answer: there is more to muscle maintenance than protein intake *per se*. One major factor is acid/base balance. Excess acid ash (too much animal food uncompensated by veggies) is erosive, causes muscle and bone loss. Alkali rich diet, all else equal, will do a better job of maintaining lean mass. Still have to have adequate protein, but it changes the balance. Also, potassium per se (apart from its role as base) seems to have an N-sparing effect, preserving lean mass; almost no one gets enough K except ppl on plant-based diets.
I suspect that plant proteins will be found adequate enough for *maintenance* but less so for *growth*. Growing populations (e.g. children) probably need some animal protein; babies certainly do (that's all they ever eat, naturally; i.e. milk). Old people probably need the more-anabolic animal protein in order to keep from slipping too fast, unless compensated in other ways such as growth hormone or testosterone supplementation. Same for people recovering from injury, surgery, etc., and possibly also expectant mothers.
Soy is grown to make soybean oil. Ruminants eat the meal which would go in the landfill.
A healthy human gut microbiome can make essential amino acids. I am an oncologist interested in studying protein in cancer from my readings I see the higher amino acid ratios of animal proteins and higher absorption of animal proteins promotes cancer growth just like refined sugar can promote cancer growth but sugar in whole fruits prevents cancer growth. Animal proteins are a processed protein or processed food just like vegitable oils are processed and processed food promotes growth and energy for cancer promotion so I recommend a Flexitarian or preferrably a whole food plant based diet to my patients to avoid thes pro-cancer growth elements to the diet.
Fascinating
I am really glad you learnt some very important things here Peter Attia MD about ruminant animals, and how the bacteria works to make our food from the process in the ruminant animals system. Your willingness to learn without embarrassment of a not previously known subject, or what you thought you knew, is very good. Thank you, it makes us all learn better.
I'm wondering how to even get 40 grams of protein in a breakfast. Dinner is easier I think. Even with three eggs, I'm nowhere near 40. Anyone have some suggestions?
To get at least 30 grams at breakfast, I often eat, 2 eggs, 1 Egg White = 15g protein and either 1/2 C of cottage cheese or Greek yogurt and that gets me to 30g.
Or…
Eggs, lean organic chicken sausage
Or….
20g protein shake, 2 eggs, 1 egg white = 35g
Or…..
2 scoops protein = 40g
Helpful?
@@KellyYoumans yes thank you!
Why is there a Goodyear tire in the background?
Good morning Peter. Thank you for this episode and the wonderful guest Dr layman. What a incredible depth of knowledge. I got awnsrs to all my protein related questions depth I have had for years but never found with such clarity. I had no concept of so many of the facts presented by him. absolutely fantastic. I am a Pulmonary/Critical care physician and follow you regularly on your shows. This show will help me tremendously educate and treat my patients and improve my diet as well. GRATITUDE TO YOU AND DR LAYMAN.