Complete the line: "On the first day of Loremas the Emperor gave to me..." Also check out this video on Abaddon's daughter: th-cam.com/video/VOdNJpQ8yUA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=XhUjVlpOkocvXPH3
"Why..." "You ask me why - why what?" "Why..." "I think you suffered a great shock, father, you are not making sense. Why did i kill the angel? Why do i offer-" "Why..." "Dad you good?" "Why YOU LITTLE" *starts choking Horus*
I agree that he wouldn't now see the Emperor worship as something to be furious about. I feel like Big E's current state is the worst possible option to ensure his victory over Chaos. After all what was the imperial truth if not an attempt to starve Chaos? That didn't work out so, as Malcador states, there is one plan left. The Emperor isn't sitting on that throne sealing up the webway and suffering for millennia for no reason. He's playing the long game and, given his prescient vision, knew that is what he needed to do.
The dark king, probably an undead version of mankind, rising up skeletal soldiers. Nurgle is the god of decay BUT eternal life forever decaying. As an undead chaos god Neoth could destroy them all, no emotions to feed them and no souls from undead humans. The onky thing standing in his way then would be tyranids and necrons.
I love your points towards the end on how important moving the setting forward was and the impact Guilliman has had on Warhammer as a whole. He is BY FAR my favorite character and I love all the Primarchs and any topics related to them. Nothing except for the Emperor really matches the buzz and hype around Primarchs returning and that's good for the hobby.
@GoalOrientedLifting yeah sure. I joined the hobby 2 years ago just to see it's cringe and doesn't look like Warhammer as I imagined it and that old was better. And I do want progress. There's endless potential for progress in smaller scale stories happening on countless worlds in the galaxy. I don't want this housewife drama cringe
@@Pihtorichi mean you have a point that primarch spamming will degrade their mistique, i am not against their return, but very slowly and focus should be on the smaller stories
@@Pihtorich i find this so odd, cause the primarch, gods, and all the main characters is what makes of most interactions. also the "housewife drama" description is very excessive. if you want none of the drama between main characters. then you dont have 40k. or 30k. Its the equevalent of wanting history without the most important figuries in history nor their interactions what youre asking for is a mindless list of occurences and data. best case a view simply from average day humans ONLY. which brings a very one sided and incomplete picture of both lore and whats happening
You can still have thoughts even if you don't have a soul. The difference between true Horus and that version is exactly the same as 30k mortarion vs demon mortarian.
I´ll just drop a comment to praise your involvement with the community in your streams, I love that you actively read the chat and answer questions. It really is a joy to tune into your streams everytime SoT!
Horus is beyond deluded thinking he is master of chaos every word he says is ridiculous the gods are undoubtedly laughing their butts off everytime they hear him talking about "his" power.
Also Side note - Star Child... and Sanguinius's soul shard in the warp..... BOTH would be growing in power... as both receive huge devotion and belief in them (as father and Sacrificial Son) throughout the empire. If the Star Child is being empowered by the empires beliefs, then Sanguinius soul shard thats been an echo could also be empowered and restored through these same beliefs and Imperial Creed Devotion. Whilst not a full blown 30k Sanguinius, there could be a Sanguinius Soul thats been empowered / repaired akin to the star child. Perhaps that is how sanguinius will return.
Would rather have Dante turn into a primarch through that untainted drip of Sanguinius blood. Sanguinius could still be a helping hand/advisor from the warp, eventhough Dante has after 1000 years enough experience. Would also play into the meme of them being vampires. And would make for some interesting plot of what he is now gonna do, since that way he has more "power" but more importantly, that that way his duty will never end. And his next meeting with Guilliman would be interesting as would be the meetings with other primarchs. Also old man Dante breaking Ka'Bandha back on his knee would be sweet.
I like the parallel comparison to what a father seeing his favorite son does to him and how if the emperor didn't shed that part of his emotions. That would have been what the emperor felt upon seeing Horus.
1:02:02 Sanguinius had no impact sure but alone versus a non juiced Horus….Horus even admits Sanguinius is superior and had he not been hiding all his power the Angel would’ve killed him fair and square. What makes the Angel’s sacrifice far more sad is that it accomplished nothing.
Says who Sanguinius' sacrifice is the epidomy of sacrifice, for his is the same as is yours and mine in the real world. Futile in the most obvious ways Meaningful in the most obscured ways But if you have the choice, it's better to sacrifice yourself than to sacrifice others. This is Sanguinius' greatest triumph, this is Horus' greatest failure.
@ I understand what you mean. Blood Angels is my army and my favorite faction but ultimately his sacrifice caused no real damage to Horus in any way. All it allowed was for him to be martyred by Imperial Propaganda.
Maybe Sanguinius death mattered in a more metaphysycal sence? If I remember in short story 'The Board is Set' Malcador was playing for Imperium side and couldn't win even once until he had put 'Sacrifice' card on the table, that had a white feather on it. So Sanguinius death did something to the fate itself, allowing Emperor to win. Also, Sanguinius himself was aware that he is going to die by Horus' hand, but the time and the place was different. And I also vaguely remember him saying, that he doesn't want to multiply the possibilities. So maybe he kinda chose to die then and there, because he knew that if he will die - Emperor will win, just because his death is somehow connected to Horus losing. Plus, he was an MVP of the Siege with the amount of stuff he did. So even if his death was just death, he still deserves all the praise from Imperium
If nothing else the Blood Angels going on a rampage from the psychic backlash from his death did a ton of damage to the traitor forces on Terra, was a major boost for the rest of the loyalist forces
Also after hearing which 2 halfes of the emperor gets the worship, it also makes sense the 'throne' emperor to become the dark king, being forcefed souls for 10,000 years
The half that shed that part of his soul rejected the dark king route. I don't think that's his path. I feel like this is a plan, but the worst possible one that could **still** result in his victory over Chaos. Without the inherent humanity of that part of him he's a logical being, but one that retains a set goal of securing humanity's future, and killing all of humanity is not a logical route to securing their survival.
@RichardStrong86 yes but stripped of his humanity with splitting his soul, 10,000 years of unspeakable torture, death and rebirth, forcefed souls and battling tides of daemons aswell as project the astronomicon...its alot even for one such as he
@@Ste0121 Keep in mind the Emperor knew his fate before he sat on the golden throne. I think the concept of him being as fractured as we think is based on Guilliman's recollection of his meeting, which is a memory that changes everytime he remembers it. So I think that broken aspect of him is more his memory of the meeting being inconsistent more than anything. He probably does have to focus (pulling himself together) in order to relate on a one-to-one basis though, but Guilliman was in that throne room for days and by all accounts was holding a coherent discussion the entire time.
For all his power and bluster, Horus still reflects on “those 30 perfect years” where he served with the emperor, back before he has to worry about the responsibilities and power of being Warmaster. Even at the end, he longs for that life.
The fact he had to ask "why" to the chaos gods really makes you think about what his original deals were with them. What would they be? It seems like he is shocked to a degree, although on the surface the Emperors plan was for reasoning and science to weaken them, was it really the plan? Additionally, the fact he only is concerned that Lupercal is "dead" leads one to believe the other "dead" primarchs are not dead in any sense. Something we know from The Emperor and Malchador speaking together where given enough time they could all be brought back.
Good point: it reads to me as though on first impressions the answer should seem obvious "we are enemies and this was our way of fighting back and defeating you". But thinking about it more, that "why" could mean so many things. Like "why couldnt you have stayed in your dinension and left us alone", "why did you kill my son when it was me you wanted", "why couldnt you all just die". That sort of thing. Love that passage.
ya (pretty sure) if primarchs “ascend” to demonhood it kills/annihilates their special soul and replaces it with the relevant chaos gods soul. so horus is dead basically.
Don't think there ever was any deal. The Emperor evidently don't need any permission to gather Warp force. It's his to do with as he chooses. The Old 4 however believes that everything in the Warp is theirs and sees it as a theft.
@@Ewil.Bluetooth Quite possibly misremembering but I thought it was either stated or heavily implied he bargained for their souls, just not known with whom.
I couldn't believe that the Emperor could be expressed as being more powerful before the end and the death, but both Horus and the Emperors power was so well written and expressed in these last books, they might as well be gods.
I'm kind of the opinion that with the most recent lore, that GW is setting up for the Dark Imperium. Personally, I think it would be the Star Child on a quest to get to the Golden Throne and Dark King trying to stop the reunion, and we'd have a Heresy 2.0. If they do go for the Dark King, he'd obviously be the leader, and a few things would need some counterbalance. Like Saints and Psykers being more prevalent to counter the endless hordes of daemons that would ravage Terra if the half of big E on Terra turns into the Dark King. Vashtorr could be the head of the Dark Mechanicum, never achieving Godhood, and be subjugated by the Dark King. Maybe the Leagues and Mechanicus rediscover or reawaken the Ominissiah to counter Vashtorr. Both bringing to bare benevolent (or at least pro-Imperium) and malevolent AIs from Old Night. I think it would be really cool if the Thunder Warriors came back to counter the Custodians. Created by the Dark King or the Mechanicum? Maybe both? Who knows. At the very least, they could counter Primaris. Personally, I think the Astartes vs Chaos Space Marines is pretty balanced, at least thematically. The whole Primaris upgrade makes me think they're on more even footing now, considering Chaos has the experience, ancient/chaotic tech, ancient/chaotic knowledge, and dark gifts on their side. Logistics is pretty powerful, but it only gets you so far. Tailoring Imperial Guard for each Chaos God and the Dark King could be done relatively easily, considering the Blood Pact are already a thing for Khorne. If you're a fan of Darktide, the Mordian Iron Guard for Nurgle. I also wouldn't hate if traditionally loyal IG units turning traitor with the coming of the Dark King. Dare I say, evil Kreig for the Dark King? I think they'd be a good Undivided Chaos Guard. I also think the Tyranid problem isn't as big as it seems everybody else thinks. Especially if the galaxy is changing to be having a war over the soul of the galaxy, literally and figuratively. The Necrons, at least the Silent King, have a vested or renewed interest in souls and don't seem too keen on having all the beings with souls in the galaxy getting eaten. Those same beings with the souls also aren't a fan of being a buffet. Tyranids have a zero in diplomacy and charisma and have no friends, to me, it's hard to win a galactic war without friends. While sparse, even the Orks and Necrons have their moments of diplomacy. And who knows what you could do with them narratively if the Old Ones pop back up, considering thematically the Nids fit the most with the Lizardmen. I'm still crossing my fingers, hoping the Nids are just a leftover weapon from the War in Heaven, but it's all just hopes and dreams. But hey, then we'd really get some bug vs robot action and I'd be here for it. That would tie up both the powerful factions for a while at least enough to have a Heresy 2.0.
Hi there, big time lore nerd. Got an interesting theory that I like: the Star Child IS the Yellow King. I know we are led to believe that Valdor is the the King in Yellow but this might be an misdirection by Abnett who has is known for throwing curve balls. There are hints that Valdor was in some way special, hand picked by the Emperor. Maybe he was foreseen as a mortal vessel into which the Star Child could be transferred and help it be reborn. In the meantime Valdor was working on his own army of Light Deamons, as well as figuring out a way to destroy all space marines with that bomb that mad scientist was trying to build. So here is my sequence of events: 1. Valdor is chosen to become custodes as a contingency 2. Emperor slices off a part of his soul and leaves it in the City of Dust 3. Star Child calls to Valdor and shows him the City 4. After wrapping up things on Terra, after the Heresy, Valdor goes to the City if Dust and begins recreating the space marine killing weapon, creates an army and has a cup of tea 5. The plan is for Valdor to become a host for the Star Child (Big E was supposed to be the Dark King, now Valdor+Star Child will become the Yellow King - a Bright King one might say) One thing I can’t figure out is how the Blood Angels factor into this. Maybe they are trying to bring Sanguinius back somehow? Or maybe create Marines resistant to the bomb-thing.
The thing is the Terminus Decree already exists and and has been entrusted to the Grey Knights so they already have the power, however I like the theory of Valdor being the vessel for the Star Child.
@@WhiteIkiryo-yt2it A-ha! But that’s just it! I think Valdor took matters into his own hands. At the end of the last HH book he is pretty unhappy with Primarchs and SMs. I see him as going a bit rogue (not corrupted but just against the grain). This would also mirror Eisenhorn becoming a Radical and Ravenor going Super-Secret-Sayan for a bit in Ravenor Rogue. I don’t think he cant get the Terminus Decree enacted, so he made his own.
One of the yet unresolved plot threads is that the creator of the Terminus Decree virus has assumed the identity of Inquisitor Xanthus. So Xanthites are his followers.
A few months ago you were talking about the weapons from the Emperor and to who they might go to when the Primarchs return. Recently I learned about the short story about how Mortarion acquired the Lantern, his signature pistol. In the short story Lantern's Light, the Emperor summons Mortarion he plans to gift Mortarion a weapon much as he did with a lot of his other sons. The thing is with Mortarion's resentful spite he rejected the Emperor's gift and instead took a different weapon of his own choosing (the titular Lantern). What was the Emperor's intended gift? A scimitar. I suspect this scimitar will go to Jaghatai Khan when he returns. Would also be interesting if this is true for an eventual rematch between Jaghatai and Mortarion with Mortarion taking notice and recalling it.
I had an interesting idea concerning both The Emperor as a God and the emerging Tau'Va warp god: Big E primarily intended humanity to remain genetically pure so that aberrant pathologies wouldn't develop into warring people which wiped out populations, but Tau'Va being empowered by humans and other xenos within the Tau Empire has created a situation where a powerful but minor warp god will likely start causing xenos mutations in exchange for worship. I envisioned a situation where suddenly the Greater Good is being spread via mutants and beastmen amongst the underhive rejects across the Imperium through the direction of Tau'Va and having NO direct connection to the Tau Empire whatsoever. The Tau could even arrive at a world set to persuade them towards the Greater Good only to find that Tau'Va has already subverted the whole Imperial world in secret in preparation for this Tau Fleet causing a whole circus of a scene.
Great video - thanks. A little gutted that your reading / voice acting scene at the start didn't carry on for a longer - it was fantastic, but really enjoyed the rest of this video too and gain from your knowledge of the lore / story.
If i recall the red the magnus thousand sons book series goes into a hint that the Emperor had been chilling in the warp far longer before magnus himself went on that spirit trip with him. We don't know to what level of relationship he had with them, hence the why. Also making sense why he deny them him become the 5th chaos god.
Maybe Sanguinius's memory cuts off at the point where he gives Horus the offer and the trauma of his death erased the part where horus goes Super Saiyan 2
I think Leman Returns and kills the emperor releasing him and allowing him to regenerate. Names are everything in 40K and "The Emperors executioner" may be a literal title
Check the Balders one on the rebirth of the Emperor. It's conclusion is peak Baldermort narrative. Hits like a brick. I haven't watched it in a long time and it still rings in my head "HE WOULD RULE IN HELL". Good stuff :)
U mentioned 'the chaos gods were angry because they lost and the emperor was going to enter decay', and it made me think why isnt nurgle so supremely powerful since,for the last 10,000 years the emperor has been (as i understand it) dying and reborn every second of every day? I havent explained it properly but hopefully u will know what i mean. Thankyou for another great video explained it properly
Thanks man. It's often the case that a chaos god will rise to become more powerful than the others, but in such instances, their rivals will ally to even the scales. Thus the great game rolls on
To be fair, the death guard have been probably the biggest pain outside oh abbadon for the imperium, until funnily enough the return of G man. What that means symbolically? well....
So was it the warp side of the Emperor that gave a power boost to Guilliman? It would seem like the throne emperor is more like a gatekeeper keeping humanity safe, while the warp emperor awakend by the rift is getting things done.
This is one of the most hilarious exchanges in the book. Dan Abnet does excellent work having Horus being so frustrated with this meeting. Being it was, in his mind, his apex and basically the whole reason he put himself in the position of usurper to the galactic thrown. I could picture him at the point where he yells at his father to kneel and submit! And Getting another out of place "why?" Just throwing his hands up " I'm just going to have to kill him!" 😂 It really feels like he is already over the whole situation shortly after their face to face.
I know you like to trim down these streams to post, but it would be nice if the originals could stay up too. I turned on my tv and somehow the stream still loaded after it was over, it would be incredibly hype if every day could be like that.
did bro just drop two vids in a row? 😮 dont spoil us. i like that you don't swamp us with content, every time you upload i know it will be excellent. strange that i get 9th comment after as many hours and 1000s of views
Thanks bro. I just put it back live but the other views were from when I was live so their "comments" go into chat instead of onto the video of that makes sense
32:40 Are you saying that the Chaos Gods are the SAME entities across both 40K and Fantasy/Age of Sigmar, and that the two realms do not exist in the same universe, but as separate parallel or alternate universes, but the Chaos Gods that appear in one are the same in the other, beings that can move through these separate universes?
Totally agree on the last point about pushing the narrative forward. I didn't touch the 40k lore for many, many years after reading the first dozen or so HH books and some Space Wolves/Ragnar/Leman stories. When I heard Gulliman had been bought back and they were concluding the HH series along with return of The Lion it sparked my interest again. It takes a lot of guts to progress a beloved story, not knowing how well it will be received but kudos to Black Library for doing so. Now, progress Russ' story please.
I don't like how the "True death" of Horus was changed. Originally the Emperor gathered all his remaining power and deleted the soul of Horus. Now he just stabs him with the Anatheme blade. It's just a plot macguffin that has some magical power and nobody really knows what it does. It didn't kill Horus the first time, why would it kill him the second time? However, I could see an interesting new plot line about the return of Horus- now being purged of Chaos, he's returned to life, but with the insane weight of his past. A character who basically destroyed the Imperium and killed his own father now comes back as a "normal" Primarch. Imagine how the entire Imperium would try to hunt him down, so he would have to live in secret somehow while bearing the guilt of what he's done!
@@p_serdiuk I don't remember seeing that specific detail in the book, but it doesn't make sense. The first time Horus was stabbed by it was by a regular mortal with no power to channel.
@@maxstr Yes, but he was stabbed by this knife specifically, and that event started the whole Heresy. So, naturally, this same knife also ended it. Though the knife alone couldn't harm Horus anymore, so the Emperor used it basically like a very fancy force sword and channelled his remaining power through it to delete Horus' soul.
I'm going to guess that the visions of the Emperor the Lion has been seeing as the Old King is a different aspect of the Emperor's soul compared to what Guiliman spoke to. I now wonder what other versions we will see when the other sons return. As for where their sons are, I have a few theories. -Dorn didn't die during the Black Crusade but was dragged away by Dark Eldar and is now in their gladiator pits, probably in some form of self imposed penance or his own hell. -Leman Russ is probably in the City of Dust with Valdor, possibly waiting for the moment to get the Tree of Life which I doubt is a actual tree but rather the Eldar Goddess of life and since Guiliman burned down Nurgle's garden...maybe that was the time for them to strike. -Ferrus Mannus is probably in the City of Dust also as the leader of the Legion of the Damned. -I don't have any theory for where Vulkan could have buggered off to. That guy is the hide and seek champion as he didn't even leave us any hint....unless when he entered the fire of that generator with the Beast, could his soul have been dragged into the realm of Gork & Mork when they took back the power of the Beast? Ok, apparently I do have a extremely teaching theory. -I believe the Khan has found the Black Library or rather the Laughing God found him and has taken him to the Library to show him the truth and he is currently observing it all. I am waiting for him to return when the tombs beneath his home world awaken. -Corax is currently hunting that Lorgar booty. -Sanguinius...well considering he appeared to Dante, his body still exists and we have seen mentions of a ghost aboard the Vengeful Spirit, I think he still lives as he was killed by Horus's Talon and as we saw when Magnus was killed by Russ, his soul shattered and was scattered across the warp and it stands to reason that is what happened to Sanguinius but most importsntly, he wasn't killed with an anethame so his soul wasn't out-right destroyed.
May not have been the emperor… May have been a message sent from the past before before was placed on the throne and wounded by Horus. May have been lions of illusion in his mind(some issues with this… but you could make it work.) Possibilities are endless.
I think it would be cool for GW to do a story where a primaris doesn't have his memory taken from him isn't raised like a primaris, still knowing his parents and siblings and basically living like a regular human. Protecting a village or something like that. Being thought of like a Hercules type figure to the town folk. Fighting some xenos, maybe dark eldar or orks.
30:47 i always thought that went to the conversation between Dorn and Sigusmond "I'm not your father, and your not my son and you never were" I thought that was him saying that Sigusmond was from the 2nd or 11th .... makes me think most of the black tenplars are unles I'm mistaken in Canon the black templars are made from the Imperial Fists that didnt fit in with legion
Horus has been changed as a person, so even if he has "harnessed chaos", he is using it in the way chaos wishes to be used. His uses for chaos are profoundly different for the uses he would have made of such power before his conversion (rebirth) and subsequent transformation, and not merely because he has "grown"
40k needs a center of narrative gravity. Guilliman is that center. His perspective gives meaning to the conflict so it isn't just an endless meatgrinder of Space Marines blowing stuff up.
I haven't read the book yet, but I know that the emperor was pretty jacked up by the end of his fight .... Maybe valdor smeared some of the emperor's blood on his spear and saw the starchild, maybe when they rushed over to check the emperor's body and try to figure out what to do. He set his spear down and it was in a puddle of the emperor's blood.. it just takes a drop. Maybe picking up the spear. It sent him the visions of the starchild. It's 40K possibilities are endless
Never played or read any Warhammer at all, now totally addicted to TH-cam channels about 40K Lore… 🤷♂️ This one and Luetin09 specifically. I desperately need to understand every minute of the Emperor’s entire life, all 50,000 odd years of it.
I couldnt rationalize Sanguinius death but think about how the black rage has saved the blood angels throughout time. Even during the battle for terra the angels slaughtered what was left of Horus forces
I mean, we already have the reincarnation of the Starchild. It is known as the Fyodperor, and resides in either the Warp or Commorragh, causing major headaches to the denizens of either. XD
One thing I’ve never heard discussed on any 40k lore channel is the ork’s experience/belief in ‘the great green’. It’s featured in a few ork books now. Is it part of the psychic waaaagh network? Is it a mycelium like network that puts ork ‘souls’ into different bodies, which is how Makari can essentially be brought back into the body of any grot. Is it connected to Gork and Mork? I know there’s so much interesting stuff going on for the Imperium but surely we need a bit of green in the run up to Christmas? Please and thank you!
I wonder if the part of the emperor's soul (that cares about the primarchs as sons) that he sliced off and cast into the warp is what will come to the aid of the dead primarchs in the warp, helping Sanguinius retain some cohesion and maybe aiding Ferrus.
I would love to see you explore the idea that there is something out there that is bigger, scarier, and more powerful than the Old Four. Why does the little knife that Emps uses to kill Horus scare them so much? Why does it have so much power over them? Each god is a gestalt entity, emergent from certain emotional and behavioral patterns in the warp, but theoretically there would be different warp entities in different galaxies, being fed from different sentient species. What are they worried about and why does it worry them?
maybe the Star Child inhabits Constantin Valdor (at least at the moment) not only because he's a fitting Vessel, but also to Anchor the Inevitable City/City of Dust somehow
The more i read/listen to on the great battle between father and son, the more i really want to see Horus return. If only just to see a son try and seek redemption. (That's honestly where i believe his story is heading)
The emperor and the star child are Gork and Mork. Sometime in the future humanity turns into Krorks, then the old ones use time warp magic to summon them to the past thus releasing them into the galaxy in the past. Its why Gork and Mork are da strongest.
will vashtor ascend to godhood? and if so it would seem perturabo would be the obvious daemon primark to be his champion, as AoS added a 5th chaos god do you see this happening in 40K with Vashtor as well?
Okay so yes Heresey, but wouldn't Sigismund's complete belief in the God Emperor, could that be an expression of him not being a true son of Dorn, but rather a true son of the Lost or Forgotten? Dorn wouldn't know/remember because of the wipe?
Interesting stream. Sanguinius death just a death and Abaddon is the best character in 40k. I thought this was supposed to be a Christmas themed video not plain heresy 😂
I don’t think it’s any big mystery as to why the chaos gods seemed to make a mistake punishing Horus by taking their time to restore his power,it’s just another hint towards that immutable fact that the gods of chaos always lose by beating themselves with pettiness and spite
Sandman of terra want to hear your thoughts on my head cannon I think the Star child that will be born will be Erda and we can continue with leetu continue his storyline and I think is too early for the Emperor's rebirth and we can finally get that mother son relationship we where denied in the great crusade. My second head cannon is Vulcan will be the next primach to return because the Throne is failing and Vulcan is the only truth artisan and crafter still left in the imperium and Vulcan at the end of the heresy had sworn to bring fabuis bile to justice for what he did on Terra and with the return of fulgrim is it too much to ask for the return of Vulcan
Complete the line: "On the first day of Loremas the Emperor gave to me..."
Also check out this video on Abaddon's daughter: th-cam.com/video/VOdNJpQ8yUA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=XhUjVlpOkocvXPH3
Thanks man and love what you are doing with regards to the Christmas period. Cheers mate and 'on this second day of loremas the Emperor
Gave to me... a video on what is known as fact in relation to the scouring cannonically
one giant bolter...
"Shush boy, I'm not talking at you. The Adults are Speaking."
"Go wait in the goddamn car."
"Why..."
"You ask me why - why what?"
"Why..."
"I think you suffered a great shock, father, you are not making sense. Why did i kill the angel? Why do i offer-"
"Why..."
"Dad you good?"
"Why YOU LITTLE" *starts choking Horus*
I do hope rogal dorn comes back. Being a black templar myself would be nice if dad came home.
You do realize that Dorn would probably be INCREDIBILY pissed at the Black Templar right? He's going to give you all the meanest belt ever
wish my dad would come home too... 😢
As an imperial fist if dad comes home y'all better get painting your armour yellow and getting in line
And as Son of Perturabo, I can say... Fuck the Imperial Fist 😂.
Being blood angels is simply accepting we will never see Sanguinius again
I agree that he wouldn't now see the Emperor worship as something to be furious about. I feel like Big E's current state is the worst possible option to ensure his victory over Chaos. After all what was the imperial truth if not an attempt to starve Chaos? That didn't work out so, as Malcador states, there is one plan left. The Emperor isn't sitting on that throne sealing up the webway and suffering for millennia for no reason. He's playing the long game and, given his prescient vision, knew that is what he needed to do.
The dark king, probably an undead version of mankind, rising up skeletal soldiers. Nurgle is the god of decay BUT eternal life forever decaying. As an undead chaos god Neoth could destroy them all, no emotions to feed them and no souls from undead humans. The onky thing standing in his way then would be tyranids and necrons.
That opener was AMAZING 🤩
I love your points towards the end on how important moving the setting forward was and the impact Guilliman has had on Warhammer as a whole. He is BY FAR my favorite character and I love all the Primarchs and any topics related to them. Nothing except for the Emperor really matches the buzz and hype around Primarchs returning and that's good for the hobby.
Good how lol? It's pure cringe
@@Pihtorich another salty old head who don't want progress in the lore
@GoalOrientedLifting yeah sure. I joined the hobby 2 years ago just to see it's cringe and doesn't look like Warhammer as I imagined it and that old was better. And I do want progress. There's endless potential for progress in smaller scale stories happening on countless worlds in the galaxy. I don't want this housewife drama cringe
@@Pihtorichi mean you have a point that primarch spamming will degrade their mistique, i am not against their return, but very slowly and focus should be on the smaller stories
@@Pihtorich i find this so odd, cause the primarch, gods, and all the main characters is what makes of most interactions. also the "housewife drama" description is very excessive.
if you want none of the drama between main characters. then you dont have 40k. or 30k.
Its the equevalent of wanting history without the most important figuries in history nor their interactions
what youre asking for is a mindless list of occurences and data. best case a view simply from average day humans ONLY. which brings a very one sided and incomplete picture of both lore and whats happening
Holy emperor that intro was fire!!!!!
I loved your “ angron vs the lion”, u should do “sanguinius vs ka bunda and angron next”
It frustrates me that I thought it was obvious that Horus' inner monologue is just the chaos gods animating him.
You can still have thoughts even if you don't have a soul. The difference between true Horus and that version is exactly the same as 30k mortarion vs demon mortarian.
I´ll just drop a comment to praise your involvement with the community in your streams, I love that you actively read the chat and answer questions. It really is a joy to tune into your streams everytime SoT!
Thanks man! im glad people are enjoying Loremas
Horus is beyond deluded thinking he is master of chaos every word he says is ridiculous the gods are undoubtedly laughing their butts off everytime they hear him talking about "his" power.
Also Side note - Star Child... and Sanguinius's soul shard in the warp..... BOTH would be growing in power... as both receive huge devotion and belief in them (as father and Sacrificial Son) throughout the empire.
If the Star Child is being empowered by the empires beliefs, then Sanguinius soul shard thats been an echo could also be empowered and restored through these same beliefs and Imperial Creed Devotion.
Whilst not a full blown 30k Sanguinius, there could be a Sanguinius Soul thats been empowered / repaired akin to the star child.
Perhaps that is how sanguinius will return.
Would rather have Dante turn into a primarch through that untainted drip of Sanguinius blood.
Sanguinius could still be a helping hand/advisor from the warp, eventhough Dante has after 1000 years enough experience.
Would also play into the meme of them being vampires.
And would make for some interesting plot of what he is now gonna do, since that way he has more "power" but more importantly, that that way his duty will never end.
And his next meeting with Guilliman would be interesting as would be the meetings with other primarchs.
Also old man Dante breaking Ka'Bandha back on his knee would be sweet.
Basically a Greater Daemon of the Emperor, yeah.
I like the parallel comparison to what a father seeing his favorite son does to him and how if the emperor didn't shed that part of his emotions. That would have been what the emperor felt upon seeing Horus.
1:02:02 Sanguinius had no impact sure but alone versus a non juiced Horus….Horus even admits Sanguinius is superior and had he not been hiding all his power the Angel would’ve killed him fair and square.
What makes the Angel’s sacrifice far more sad is that it accomplished nothing.
Says who
Sanguinius' sacrifice is the epidomy of sacrifice, for his is the same as is yours and mine in the real world.
Futile in the most obvious ways
Meaningful in the most obscured ways
But if you have the choice, it's better to sacrifice yourself than to sacrifice others. This is Sanguinius' greatest triumph, this is Horus' greatest failure.
@ I understand what you mean. Blood Angels is my army and my favorite faction but ultimately his sacrifice caused no real damage to Horus in any way. All it allowed was for him to be martyred by Imperial Propaganda.
@@ryant2112 Sanguinius death unleashed the black rage.
you saying the Black Rage hastn't helped the Imperiun in the last 10,000 years?
Maybe Sanguinius death mattered in a more metaphysycal sence?
If I remember in short story 'The Board is Set' Malcador was playing for Imperium side and couldn't win even once until he had put 'Sacrifice' card on the table, that had a white feather on it. So Sanguinius death did something to the fate itself, allowing Emperor to win.
Also, Sanguinius himself was aware that he is going to die by Horus' hand, but the time and the place was different. And I also vaguely remember him saying, that he doesn't want to multiply the possibilities. So maybe he kinda chose to die then and there, because he knew that if he will die - Emperor will win, just because his death is somehow connected to Horus losing.
Plus, he was an MVP of the Siege with the amount of stuff he did. So even if his death was just death, he still deserves all the praise from Imperium
Cope about the fight with Horus, but otherwise accurate
If nothing else the Blood Angels going on a rampage from the psychic backlash from his death did a ton of damage to the traitor forces on Terra, was a major boost for the rest of the loyalist forces
Also after hearing which 2 halfes of the emperor gets the worship, it also makes sense the 'throne' emperor to become the dark king, being forcefed souls for 10,000 years
The half that shed that part of his soul rejected the dark king route. I don't think that's his path. I feel like this is a plan, but the worst possible one that could **still** result in his victory over Chaos. Without the inherent humanity of that part of him he's a logical being, but one that retains a set goal of securing humanity's future, and killing all of humanity is not a logical route to securing their survival.
@RichardStrong86 yes but stripped of his humanity with splitting his soul, 10,000 years of unspeakable torture, death and rebirth, forcefed souls and battling tides of daemons aswell as project the astronomicon...its alot even for one such as he
@@Ste0121 Keep in mind the Emperor knew his fate before he sat on the golden throne. I think the concept of him being as fractured as we think is based on Guilliman's recollection of his meeting, which is a memory that changes everytime he remembers it. So I think that broken aspect of him is more his memory of the meeting being inconsistent more than anything. He probably does have to focus (pulling himself together) in order to relate on a one-to-one basis though, but Guilliman was in that throne room for days and by all accounts was holding a coherent discussion the entire time.
@RichardStrong86 well put brother
@@RichardStrong86 Guilliman spoke with a corpse? That's necromancy
For all his power and bluster, Horus still reflects on “those 30 perfect years” where he served with the emperor, back before he has to worry about the responsibilities and power of being Warmaster. Even at the end, he longs for that life.
I'm only 6 weeks into my warhammer beginnings... one 1mi. clip turned to 1hr to 6+ hrs listening to lore a day!!!! Love your channel though!
The fact he had to ask "why" to the chaos gods really makes you think about what his original deals were with them. What would they be? It seems like he is shocked to a degree, although on the surface the Emperors plan was for reasoning and science to weaken them, was it really the plan?
Additionally, the fact he only is concerned that Lupercal is "dead" leads one to believe the other "dead" primarchs are not dead in any sense. Something we know from The Emperor and Malchador speaking together where given enough time they could all be brought back.
Good point: it reads to me as though on first impressions the answer should seem obvious "we are enemies and this was our way of fighting back and defeating you". But thinking about it more, that "why" could mean so many things. Like "why couldnt you have stayed in your dinension and left us alone", "why did you kill my son when it was me you wanted", "why couldnt you all just die". That sort of thing. Love that passage.
ya (pretty sure) if primarchs “ascend” to demonhood it kills/annihilates their special soul and replaces it with the relevant chaos gods soul. so horus is dead basically.
Don't think there ever was any deal. The Emperor evidently don't need any permission to gather Warp force. It's his to do with as he chooses. The Old 4 however believes that everything in the Warp is theirs and sees it as a theft.
@@Ewil.Bluetooth Quite possibly misremembering but I thought it was either stated or heavily implied he bargained for their souls, just not known with whom.
I gods dam love your readings set the mood so so well, should consider doing full readings
Bro that opening was straight🔥.
Keep it up.
You have a beautiful voice for reading lore. It was done perfectly, no music required.
I couldn't believe that the Emperor could be expressed as being more powerful before the end and the death, but both Horus and the Emperors power was so well written and expressed in these last books, they might as well be gods.
I'm kind of the opinion that with the most recent lore, that GW is setting up for the Dark Imperium. Personally, I think it would be the Star Child on a quest to get to the Golden Throne and Dark King trying to stop the reunion, and we'd have a Heresy 2.0. If they do go for the Dark King, he'd obviously be the leader, and a few things would need some counterbalance. Like Saints and Psykers being more prevalent to counter the endless hordes of daemons that would ravage Terra if the half of big E on Terra turns into the Dark King.
Vashtorr could be the head of the Dark Mechanicum, never achieving Godhood, and be subjugated by the Dark King. Maybe the Leagues and Mechanicus rediscover or reawaken the Ominissiah to counter Vashtorr. Both bringing to bare benevolent (or at least pro-Imperium) and malevolent AIs from Old Night.
I think it would be really cool if the Thunder Warriors came back to counter the Custodians. Created by the Dark King or the Mechanicum? Maybe both? Who knows. At the very least, they could counter Primaris.
Personally, I think the Astartes vs Chaos Space Marines is pretty balanced, at least thematically. The whole Primaris upgrade makes me think they're on more even footing now, considering Chaos has the experience, ancient/chaotic tech, ancient/chaotic knowledge, and dark gifts on their side. Logistics is pretty powerful, but it only gets you so far.
Tailoring Imperial Guard for each Chaos God and the Dark King could be done relatively easily, considering the Blood Pact are already a thing for Khorne. If you're a fan of Darktide, the Mordian Iron Guard for Nurgle. I also wouldn't hate if traditionally loyal IG units turning traitor with the coming of the Dark King. Dare I say, evil Kreig for the Dark King? I think they'd be a good Undivided Chaos Guard.
I also think the Tyranid problem isn't as big as it seems everybody else thinks. Especially if the galaxy is changing to be having a war over the soul of the galaxy, literally and figuratively. The Necrons, at least the Silent King, have a vested or renewed interest in souls and don't seem too keen on having all the beings with souls in the galaxy getting eaten. Those same beings with the souls also aren't a fan of being a buffet. Tyranids have a zero in diplomacy and charisma and have no friends, to me, it's hard to win a galactic war without friends. While sparse, even the Orks and Necrons have their moments of diplomacy. And who knows what you could do with them narratively if the Old Ones pop back up, considering thematically the Nids fit the most with the Lizardmen. I'm still crossing my fingers, hoping the Nids are just a leftover weapon from the War in Heaven, but it's all just hopes and dreams. But hey, then we'd really get some bug vs robot action and I'd be here for it. That would tie up both the powerful factions for a while at least enough to have a Heresy 2.0.
Hi there, big time lore nerd. Got an interesting theory that I like: the Star Child IS the Yellow King. I know we are led to believe that Valdor is the the King in Yellow but this might be an misdirection by Abnett who has is known for throwing curve balls. There are hints that Valdor was in some way special, hand picked by the Emperor. Maybe he was foreseen as a mortal vessel into which the Star Child could be transferred and help it be reborn. In the meantime Valdor was working on his own army of Light Deamons, as well as figuring out a way to destroy all space marines with that bomb that mad scientist was trying to build. So here is my sequence of events:
1. Valdor is chosen to become custodes as a contingency
2. Emperor slices off a part of his soul and leaves it in the City of Dust
3. Star Child calls to Valdor and shows him the City
4. After wrapping up things on Terra, after the Heresy, Valdor goes to the City if Dust and begins recreating the space marine killing weapon, creates an army and has a cup of tea
5. The plan is for Valdor to become a host for the Star Child (Big E was supposed to be the Dark King, now Valdor+Star Child will become the Yellow King - a Bright King one might say)
One thing I can’t figure out is how the Blood Angels factor into this. Maybe they are trying to bring Sanguinius back somehow? Or maybe create Marines resistant to the bomb-thing.
The thing is the Terminus Decree already exists and and has been entrusted to the Grey Knights so they already have the power, however I like the theory of Valdor being the vessel for the Star Child.
@@WhiteIkiryo-yt2it A-ha! But that’s just it! I think Valdor took matters into his own hands. At the end of the last HH book he is pretty unhappy with Primarchs and SMs. I see him as going a bit rogue (not corrupted but just against the grain). This would also mirror Eisenhorn becoming a Radical and Ravenor going Super-Secret-Sayan for a bit in Ravenor Rogue.
I don’t think he cant get the Terminus Decree enacted, so he made his own.
One of the yet unresolved plot threads is that the creator of the Terminus Decree virus has assumed the identity of Inquisitor Xanthus. So Xanthites are his followers.
I have my theory that it will be Bequin who will ned with Star Child
A few months ago you were talking about the weapons from the Emperor and to who they might go to when the Primarchs return.
Recently I learned about the short story about how Mortarion acquired the Lantern, his signature pistol. In the short story Lantern's Light, the Emperor summons Mortarion he plans to gift Mortarion a weapon much as he did with a lot of his other sons. The thing is with Mortarion's resentful spite he rejected the Emperor's gift and instead took a different weapon of his own choosing (the titular Lantern). What was the Emperor's intended gift? A scimitar.
I suspect this scimitar will go to Jaghatai Khan when he returns. Would also be interesting if this is true for an eventual rematch between Jaghatai and Mortarion with Mortarion taking notice and recalling it.
What an intro... You really nailed that dude
"They say 'sex sells...' but primarchs sell more" lol
Fulgrim enters chat
The End & The Death was just SO good. I feel like I'll never read a book that good again, the Aegis Fang of books if you will.
I had an interesting idea concerning both The Emperor as a God and the emerging Tau'Va warp god: Big E primarily intended humanity to remain genetically pure so that aberrant pathologies wouldn't develop into warring people which wiped out populations, but Tau'Va being empowered by humans and other xenos within the Tau Empire has created a situation where a powerful but minor warp god will likely start causing xenos mutations in exchange for worship. I envisioned a situation where suddenly the Greater Good is being spread via mutants and beastmen amongst the underhive rejects across the Imperium through the direction of Tau'Va and having NO direct connection to the Tau Empire whatsoever. The Tau could even arrive at a world set to persuade them towards the Greater Good only to find that Tau'Va has already subverted the whole Imperial world in secret in preparation for this Tau Fleet causing a whole circus of a scene.
Great video - thanks. A little gutted that your reading / voice acting scene at the start didn't carry on for a longer - it was fantastic, but really enjoyed the rest of this video too and gain from your knowledge of the lore / story.
You run a great channel, always worth a watch and listen. Keep up the good work.
If i recall the red the magnus thousand sons book series goes into a hint that the Emperor had been chilling in the warp far longer before magnus himself went on that spirit trip with him. We don't know to what level of relationship he had with them, hence the why. Also making sense why he deny them him become the 5th chaos god.
Maybe Sanguinius's memory cuts off at the point where he gives Horus the offer and the trauma of his death erased the part where horus goes Super Saiyan 2
Horus to everyone: Suprise to see me??
Horus to Loken: Don't look at me, KYAAHHH!!!
You are the voice of WH40K. PERIOD.
The primarchs went out to get some smokes, they'll be right back
I think Leman Returns and kills the emperor releasing him and allowing him to regenerate. Names are everything in 40K and "The Emperors executioner" may be a literal title
your name is very appropriate because you are my sandman, bringing me dreams, as i almost exclusively listen to your videos before going to bed lol
Check the Balders one on the rebirth of the Emperor. It's conclusion is peak Baldermort narrative. Hits like a brick. I haven't watched it in a long time and it still rings in my head "HE WOULD RULE IN HELL". Good stuff :)
U mentioned 'the chaos gods were angry because they lost and the emperor was going to enter decay', and it made me think why isnt nurgle so supremely powerful since,for the last 10,000 years the emperor has been (as i understand it) dying and reborn every second of every day? I havent explained it properly but hopefully u will know what i mean. Thankyou for another great video explained it properly
Thanks man.
It's often the case that a chaos god will rise to become more powerful than the others, but in such instances, their rivals will ally to even the scales. Thus the great game rolls on
To be fair, the death guard have been probably the biggest pain outside oh abbadon for the imperium, until funnily enough the return of G man. What that means symbolically? well....
So was it the warp side of the Emperor that gave a power boost to Guilliman? It would seem like the throne emperor is more like a gatekeeper keeping humanity safe, while the warp emperor awakend by the rift is getting things done.
You have the BEST WH40K Lore.
How did The Emperor not know Hours was corrupted by Chaos?
It doesn't make sense to me how he didn't know.
Thanks man!
Do you mean in this scene? Our earlier into the heresy
Christmas came early this year back to back to back sandman thank the Omnissiah!
1:08 How did you get these photos of purple Orks? This is incredible!
This is one of the most hilarious exchanges in the book. Dan Abnet does excellent work having Horus being so frustrated with this meeting. Being it was, in his mind, his apex and basically the whole reason he put himself in the position of usurper to the galactic thrown. I could picture him at the point where he yells at his father to kneel and submit! And Getting another out of place "why?" Just throwing his hands up " I'm just going to have to kill him!" 😂 It really feels like he is already over the whole situation shortly after their face to face.
I know you like to trim down these streams to post, but it would be nice if the originals could stay up too. I turned on my tv and somehow the stream still loaded after it was over, it would be incredibly hype if every day could be like that.
Fair enough, I will look at putting the originals back unlisted
Love your analysis on the lore
did bro just drop two vids in a row? 😮
dont spoil us. i like that you don't swamp us with content, every time you upload i know it will be excellent.
strange that i get 9th comment after as many hours and 1000s of views
Thanks bro.
I just put it back live but the other views were from when I was live so their "comments" go into chat instead of onto the video of that makes sense
Love these man keep up the great work.
32:40 Are you saying that the Chaos Gods are the SAME entities across both 40K and Fantasy/Age of Sigmar, and that the two realms do not exist in the same universe, but as separate parallel or alternate universes, but the Chaos Gods that appear in one are the same in the other, beings that can move through these separate universes?
More or less. I think 40K theories did a video on this topic, and in that video he quotes a White Dwarf article that confirms this.
@@ShadowdragonYamiryu So the Chaos Gods are the ONLY thing that tie Warhammer 40K and Warhammer Fantasy together?
@@KingNisch13that and the skaven on Terra
Nothing says "Ho..Ho.. Hope" more than Sanguinius...... Happy Sanguinala!!
Totally agree on the last point about pushing the narrative forward.
I didn't touch the 40k lore for many, many years after reading the first dozen or so HH books and some Space Wolves/Ragnar/Leman stories. When I heard Gulliman had been bought back and they were concluding the HH series along with return of The Lion it sparked my interest again.
It takes a lot of guts to progress a beloved story, not knowing how well it will be received but kudos to Black Library for doing so. Now, progress Russ' story please.
I don't like how the "True death" of Horus was changed. Originally the Emperor gathered all his remaining power and deleted the soul of Horus. Now he just stabs him with the Anatheme blade. It's just a plot macguffin that has some magical power and nobody really knows what it does. It didn't kill Horus the first time, why would it kill him the second time? However,
I could see an interesting new plot line about the return of Horus- now being purged of Chaos, he's returned to life, but with the insane weight of his past. A character who basically destroyed the Imperium and killed his own father now comes back as a "normal" Primarch. Imagine how the entire Imperium would try to hunt him down, so he would have to live in secret somehow while bearing the guilt of what he's done!
Anathame was the way to channel all that power into Horus, air isn't conductive enough
@@p_serdiukstill super Mcguffin. Why a dagger with Big E's power makes more of a diference than a whole healthy Big E is beyon mortal comprension.
@leandrocastello309 It's also symbolic. This dagger is the beginning and the end.
@@p_serdiuk I don't remember seeing that specific detail in the book, but it doesn't make sense. The first time Horus was stabbed by it was by a regular mortal with no power to channel.
@@maxstr Yes, but he was stabbed by this knife specifically, and that event started the whole Heresy.
So, naturally, this same knife also ended it. Though the knife alone couldn't harm Horus anymore, so the Emperor used it basically like a very fancy force sword and channelled his remaining power through it to delete Horus' soul.
The opening was awesome I enjoyed it❤❤
It was amazing the beginning this is how my brother looks at my dad 😂😂
Sandman, awesome as always
I'm going to guess that the visions of the Emperor the Lion has been seeing as the Old King is a different aspect of the Emperor's soul compared to what Guiliman spoke to. I now wonder what other versions we will see when the other sons return.
As for where their sons are, I have a few theories.
-Dorn didn't die during the Black Crusade but was dragged away by Dark Eldar and is now in their gladiator pits, probably in some form of self imposed penance or his own hell.
-Leman Russ is probably in the City of Dust with Valdor, possibly waiting for the moment to get the Tree of Life which I doubt is a actual tree but rather the Eldar Goddess of life and since Guiliman burned down Nurgle's garden...maybe that was the time for them to strike.
-Ferrus Mannus is probably in the City of Dust also as the leader of the Legion of the Damned.
-I don't have any theory for where Vulkan could have buggered off to. That guy is the hide and seek champion as he didn't even leave us any hint....unless when he entered the fire of that generator with the Beast, could his soul have been dragged into the realm of Gork & Mork when they took back the power of the Beast? Ok, apparently I do have a extremely teaching theory.
-I believe the Khan has found the Black Library or rather the Laughing God found him and has taken him to the Library to show him the truth and he is currently observing it all. I am waiting for him to return when the tombs beneath his home world awaken.
-Corax is currently hunting that Lorgar booty.
-Sanguinius...well considering he appeared to Dante, his body still exists and we have seen mentions of a ghost aboard the Vengeful Spirit, I think he still lives as he was killed by Horus's Talon and as we saw when Magnus was killed by Russ, his soul shattered and was scattered across the warp and it stands to reason that is what happened to Sanguinius but most importsntly, he wasn't killed with an anethame so his soul wasn't out-right destroyed.
Very provocative points.
May not have been the emperor…
May have been a message sent from the past before before was placed on the throne and wounded by Horus.
May have been lions of illusion in his mind(some issues with this… but you could make it work.)
Possibilities are endless.
I think it would be cool for GW to do a story where a primaris doesn't have his memory taken from him isn't raised like a primaris, still knowing his parents and siblings and basically living like a regular human. Protecting a village or something like that. Being thought of like a Hercules type figure to the town folk. Fighting some xenos, maybe dark eldar or orks.
Why wasn't Horus afraid of the Emperor almost becoming the Dark King?
Not entirely clear since it would have almost certainly resulted in his death. Maybe he believed the emperor would always give it up
25:50 Don't present the enemy with problems, present them with dilemmas. The Chaos Gods did just that to the Emperor.
30:47 i always thought that went to the conversation between Dorn and Sigusmond "I'm not your father, and your not my son and you never were" I thought that was him saying that Sigusmond was from the 2nd or 11th .... makes me think most of the black tenplars are unles I'm mistaken in Canon the black templars are made from the Imperial Fists that didnt fit in with legion
What if Star child gets sacrificed to golden throne. Would his soul reform together and heal him
That could be how the story eventually moves forward
Great work as usual keep it up brother 💜🤘
Horus has been changed as a person, so even if he has "harnessed chaos", he is using it in the way chaos wishes to be used. His uses for chaos are profoundly different for the uses he would have made of such power before his conversion (rebirth) and subsequent transformation, and not merely because he has "grown"
40k needs a center of narrative gravity. Guilliman is that center. His perspective gives meaning to the conflict so it isn't just an endless meatgrinder of Space Marines blowing stuff up.
By the popularity of Sanguinius in 40k (the second most holy person), Mephiston could see the "people's idea" of Sanguinius
It's an amazing intro, but it's also sad. Garviel Loken's interaction with Horus is so strong, and what happens to Loken is still hard to handle.
I haven't read the book yet, but I know that the emperor was pretty jacked up by the end of his fight .... Maybe valdor smeared some of the emperor's blood on his spear and saw the starchild, maybe when they rushed over to check the emperor's body and try to figure out what to do. He set his spear down and it was in a puddle of the emperor's blood.. it just takes a drop. Maybe picking up the spear. It sent him the visions of the starchild. It's 40K possibilities are endless
Never played or read any Warhammer at all, now totally addicted to TH-cam channels about 40K Lore… 🤷♂️ This one and Luetin09 specifically. I desperately need to understand every minute of the Emperor’s entire life, all 50,000 odd years of it.
I couldnt rationalize Sanguinius death but think about how the black rage has saved the blood angels throughout time. Even during the battle for terra the angels slaughtered what was left of Horus forces
I mean, we already have the reincarnation of the Starchild. It is known as the Fyodperor, and resides in either the Warp or Commorragh, causing major headaches to the denizens of either. XD
One thing I’ve never heard discussed on any 40k lore channel is the ork’s experience/belief in ‘the great green’. It’s featured in a few ork books now. Is it part of the psychic waaaagh network? Is it a mycelium like network that puts ork ‘souls’ into different bodies, which is how Makari can essentially be brought back into the body of any grot. Is it connected to Gork and Mork? I know there’s so much interesting stuff going on for the Imperium but surely we need a bit of green in the run up to Christmas? Please and thank you!
Great shout! I'll add it to the list
@@SandmanofTerra awesome man can’t wait for this!
I wonder if the part of the emperor's soul (that cares about the primarchs as sons) that he sliced off and cast into the warp is what will come to the aid of the dead primarchs in the warp, helping Sanguinius retain some cohesion and maybe aiding Ferrus.
51:44 the question is answered when the Chaos gods didnt power him up immediately prior to the final blow
Worst Possible Scenario: The Star Child and the Corpse God are so irreconcilable that they actually become enemies for a while
2nd Person Horus Lupercal as voiced by Jonathan Keeble is absolutely GOAT BL audiobook!
I would love to see you explore the idea that there is something out there that is bigger, scarier, and more powerful than the Old Four. Why does the little knife that Emps uses to kill Horus scare them so much? Why does it have so much power over them? Each god is a gestalt entity, emergent from certain emotional and behavioral patterns in the warp, but theoretically there would be different warp entities in different galaxies, being fed from different sentient species. What are they worried about and why does it worry them?
Horus looks like an ogryn at 10:23 🤣🤣
Malcadors male menopause medication that was AWESOME 😅😅😅
What is the name of the song you always use in your videos? the one that starts at 12:33
maybe the Star Child inhabits Constantin Valdor (at least at the moment)
not only because he's a fitting Vessel, but also to Anchor the Inevitable City/City of Dust somehow
I definitely see Letoo and the primarchs rotate the leadership
writing this from horus' POV was great
The more i read/listen to on the great battle between father and son, the more i really want to see Horus return.
If only just to see a son try and seek redemption. (That's honestly where i believe his story is heading)
The emperor and the star child are Gork and Mork. Sometime in the future humanity turns into Krorks, then the old ones use time warp magic to summon them to the past thus releasing them into the galaxy in the past. Its why Gork and Mork are da strongest.
will vashtor ascend to godhood? and if so it would seem perturabo would be the obvious daemon primark to be his champion, as AoS added a 5th chaos god do you see this happening in 40K with Vashtor as well?
I have a problem with what happened to Sanguinius. As they now gave that story to Russ with the spear story.
I'm just not sure that making super op Horus is a good plot decision. Doesn't really matter and it just Mary sues all over the place
I started with Gaunts Ghosts even tho i already knew the WH40k Universe pretty well and i liked that not everything was so epic.
Okay so yes Heresey, but wouldn't Sigismund's complete belief in the God Emperor, could that be an expression of him not being a true son of Dorn, but rather a true son of the Lost or Forgotten? Dorn wouldn't know/remember because of the wipe?
Honestly Sanguinius's death killed my interest in the Blood Angels, since then went with the Dark Angels, and White Scars
hand of Abandon isn't the firs book with votan in it? wasn't there a votan member in the dragon of mars Mechanicum book too?
Nope. Mechanicum (an older 40k novel by this point) doesn't feature any kin
@SandmanofTerra aha I thought Caxton was a squat :) must have mixed it with the votan lore because of the description of him and the breeding part
I thought Vashtorr had a a type of daemon that served him.
They are called Imps.
Interesting stream. Sanguinius death just a death and Abaddon is the best character in 40k. I thought this was supposed to be a Christmas themed video not plain heresy 😂
Another great one
I don’t think it’s any big mystery as to why the chaos gods seemed to make a mistake punishing Horus by taking their time to restore his power,it’s just another hint towards that immutable fact that the gods of chaos always lose by beating themselves with pettiness and spite
Sanguinius' death might empower his feather somehow. Part of him or his power might survive in them.
Sandman of terra want to hear your thoughts on my head cannon
I think the Star child that will be born will be Erda and we can continue with leetu continue his storyline and I think is too early for the Emperor's rebirth and we can finally get that mother son relationship we where denied in the great crusade.
My second head cannon is Vulcan will be the next primach to return because the Throne is failing and Vulcan is the only truth artisan and crafter still left in the imperium and Vulcan at the end of the heresy had sworn to bring fabuis bile to justice for what he did on Terra and with the return of fulgrim is it too much to ask for the return of Vulcan
i dont have any friends at all but you make me feel like i actually have one lol
I'm 100% betting Bequin is the Starchild. imagine how cool an EMPRESS would be. Justified female custodians now? XD