Boss Rushes and Why We Need Power Trips | Boss Battle Breakdown
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2024
- Boss rushes offer some of the greatest final experiences in gaming, so we're talking about Mega Man 2 and Shovel Knight's examples in this one! Are power trips worthwhile in gaming? Let's assess that today in this action platformer themed episode of Boss Battle Breakdown!
Footage Used:
-Mega Man 11 FuseMan & BlockMan Fight Gameplay / ShadowRockZX
-Wind Waker HD Walkthrough Part 23 / packattack04082
-Mega Man X Walkthrough Longplay / LordCloudStrife
-Mega Man 11 Gameplay Trailer / IGN
-20XX Gameplay (No Commentary) / migi_hidari
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#megaman #shovelknight #gamedesign
Oh cheers, I was in the middle of something and now I have to watch this.
Seriously, superb production value, editing and writing. You'll be going places quick!
Hey Dan 👋 I really appreciate the support, man! Your content is super inspiring to me - so it means a lot that you check out my stuff.
@@skipthetutorial
You got it, pal. We all inspire each other, and while that sounds very sickly, it's also very true!
100%. It’s been super humbling to become a part of this community - definitely got to give TH-cam props for that aspect 👍
I second this comment. Amazing quality and writing :D
Hey Caff! I appreciate you watching this one - thanks for the kind words!
1:31 Cutting away just before you die to save face, huh? Yeah, I see you. =P
Awh dang you caught me haha! Nice catch, Kevin - you've got eagle eyes.
Thanks for checking this one out!
I think I most like the boss rushes that do something a little different than just rehash the previous fights. My favorite take on this idea would have to be The True Arena in Kirby games - stronger versions of every fight, plus an extended final boss, with a difficulty curve far higher than what could be expected from the campaign. I also like Breath of the Wild's variation on this idea - namely, if you fail to do all the Divine Beasts proper, then the final boss itself turns into a boss rush.
Hey MattheJ1 - I think you bring up some great examples here! Kirby is definitely strong in the boss department - something I’m very excited to return to in a future video - I need more experience with the boss rushes in these games, but if I remember correctly, the real progression to replaying these is that you would have a better understanding of how to beat them, more akin to the Shovel Knight - but I don’t know if I value that as high as the additional progression of items and weapons like in these action platformers.
Thanks for your thoughts on this!
There is another kind of progression in Kirby boss rushes. In the Arenas, you have access to every ability, while in the story proper, especially in the early game, the choice of abilities you have is somewhat limited. And the healing you're given is limited: in the hub there are five max tomatoes, which heal up your whole health, which then turn into small tomatoes, which heal only a bit, when you eat them. And the True Arenas have only the small tomatoes, making you really want to care about not taking damage against these more challenging bosses, instead of just beating them up with your hammer before they can kill you, as you probably did in story mode. In a way, it's brilliant- the game forces you to learn those bosses, without them being too hard for a kid just playing through story mode to beat. Hollow Knight also does it in Godhome- except you're the one who manages the healing, and the bosses are much harder.
Hey Armorchompy - I agree, the endurance style leads to some neat decisions and especially in risk reward settings. Thanks for writing this all out 👍
@@skipthetutorial thanks to you for answering my comment, I like discussing this sort of stuff! Also, of course being able to take any ability into the boss rush lets less esperienced players pick stuff like Hammer, which quickly stomps down the sturdiest of bosses, while a more experienced one can pick borderline-joke abilities for a challenge. When you mentioned that boss rushes sometimes don't fit the media, I immediately thought of Chrono Trigger, where the final boss copies bosses you've fought. It's a fun throwback, and it does foreshadow the fact that Lavos copies what it absorbs, but the bosser are not any stronger, so it just wastes some of your time. At least the one in wind waker looked pretty :P
@@KainYusanagi Wait, how do you affect their strength? And yes, I knew about breaking his shell, or killing him before you get the timeship (been a while since I played CT, I forgot the name), or in the scripted loss battle in the undersea palace. I like that, the only part of the battle I disliked was the boss rus part.
I personally prefer when they put the classic boss rush in a bonus stage/mode and are more creative with the regular final level. Battling two bosses at the same time (with a few combined attacks) or alternate versions without their usual weakness for example. Or at least give them some new tricks, their original strategy obviously didn't work.
Hey Alias! I think these can be really cool design showcases too - the Kirby series has had plenty of good boss finish ups as side modes. I like these examples because there’s a wholesale feel of “look at how far you’ve come” when you fight them, which is a neat way to create a throughline without I dialogue, I think.
Thanks for checking this one out!
Mega Man & Bass does something similar to this
Heavy Weapon: Atomic Tank does exactly what you're talking about. It has a boss run as an optional extra challenge after beating the game.
@@OhCrapI_He
I know, many games have. But usually not those having a boss rush during the normal playthrough/story mode. They tend to choose one of those options, otherwise it would be redundant. My point was that they could avoid this by changing up the story-rematch with some more or less drastic tweaks.
The Anchus rematch in Mega Man Zero 2 was so good.
You were expecting the same encounter as on the airship level, but NOPE! A brothers' reunion that comes with a completely different boss pattern.
An interesting detail about the Order of No Quarter boss rush in Shovel Knight is that Polar Knight is programmed to be one of the first three fights so you don't have to repeat everything after an instant spike death. Trying to figure out how this changes the number of possible fight orders.
Imagine if the super Mario Bros had a boss rush, 7 more Bowsers
First!
Also, the real MMII boss weakness order is Metal -> Bubble -> Heat -> Wood -> Air -> Crash -> Flash -> Quick -> Metal, but no-one does it like that because ain't nobody wanna go heat without item 2.
Hey Random Guy - thanks for the early support on this one! I appreciate you taking the time to watch it and leave a comment here!
Edit: I agree with the boss order - heat man is definitely a pain! I always start with bubble, but maybe I just have a thing for spastic backgrounds of waterfalls haha
Second
Eeh, I just got lucky. And as for the other weaknesses (off the top of my head)
- Metal is also weak to his own weapon
- Bubble is weak (?) to quick
- Heat... I dunno, but quick on him is a fun challenge.
- Wood gets beaten by Metal and even Air.
- Air... haha don't make me laugh.
- Crash is... I dunno. I think he's immune to Metal.
- Flash gets shredded by the Metal Blades (duh)
- Quick packs a secondary weakness to Crash
My usual order when I play (legacy) is Metal -> Flash -> Bubble -> Wood -> Air -> Heat (I take wood first out of the vicious three) -> Crash -> Quick.
Quick first is a fun challenge.
Oh Quick first sounds too tough for me - but I do love the fact that its such a wide range when you ask someone what their preferred order is - such cool design!
The great thing about MM2 is that the better you get, the more risks you can take replaying it. For instance, I always start with Quick Man and Heat Man now, just to make things interesting and challenging, usually leaving Metal Man till last.
I normally start with flash since that boss and the stage is easy compared to most levels and after that you can unlock the two best weapons (Quick Boomerang and Metal Blade). My order is still a boss weakness one but with another start point (Flash -> Quick -> Metal -> Bubble -> Heat -> Wood -> Air -> Crash). After all, you can live without Metal Blade for a couple of stages.
3:55 That's one HUGE tank! EDIT: Seriously? Why the heart?
This guy's an absolute unit - 100% haha
Thanks for checking this one out, Robert! Appreciate you stopping by
Shall you look at Hollow Knight and Enter the Gungeons boss fights?
Hey RR - thanks for suggesting these! I have a video on roguelike bosses coming up soon, so stay tuned for that - I also just got hollow knight and I’m starting to research that game’s boss design.
Thanks for the recommendations! I appreciate you checking this one out
How about hollow knight's boss rushes?
Aw I like the Windwaker boss rush. You might have to use the same dungeon items to beat the bosses, but the one new thing you do have is the fully powered-up Master Sword, so once you’ve exposed the enemy’s weak point you can take them down super easily. It feels so satisfying to cleave through these bosses that were once intimidating behemoths.
1:32 cuts off before he dies lol
Hey CT - nice catch! I typically edit to audio cuts and didn’t notice this until a rewatch, but rest assured I died more than enough in the original footage to fill the entire b-roll with a death compilation 🤣
I just recently found this channel, and this is really quality stuff, thanks for the video! My first thought aside from Mega Man when I saw the title was Shovel Knight's boss rush!
Just a quick correction, for Shovel Knight's boss rush, Polar Knight's fight will always be one of the first three fights, since he can conjure one-hit-kill spikes. I believe this was noted by the speedrunners or Yacht Club during Shovel Knight's first appearance at a Games Done Quick. So, the total number of possible combinations of fights would be less than 40320. I'd appreciate it if someone could calculate what the actual number of permutations would be!
Hey Silverstar 👋 thanks so much for spending some time to check out my content - good to have you around! SK definitely has some killer boss design - good to see us on the same wavelength haha - thanks for flagging the permutations, I had no idea! I’m also not the best at math, so I’ll second the notion of someone smarter than me fixing that number 🤣
I’m glad you like the content!
Actually, it's a pretty easy calculation. For each of the 3 possible positions Polar can be in, there are 7! permutations the other knights could be in. So the final answer is 7! * 3, or 15,120 possible fight orders.
Oh sweet! Maybe this is why me and my old math teachers never quite saw eye to eye - they didn’t use boss combos as the examples haha. I appreciate the correction here - thank you
We can narrow that down even more if there are known restrictions on when the other knights can take their turn.
I remembered in Bravely Default that at the end-game that you could do a sidequest that involved fighting off all the main job class bosses. At first you seem to fight them together depending on what group they were associated with (Bloodrose legion, Khamer & Profiteur Inc., etc.). At first they seemed to be doing nothing more than just bundling the bosses of the game into packs of 4-5 enemies.
But then the final sidequest.
you had to essentially fight all 20+ bosses in a floor-by-floor boss rush with themed fights, ranging from BP-based attacks to even turning you weak to fire and attacking with max-level fire magic. They began using entirely different movesets while also helping the characters develop a lot. It really was a feast for a final battle against the antagonists of the story that worked both as a gameplay mechanic and a storytelling exprience to develop character.
Didn't help that you could also redo the boss rush any time you liked, at which the boss rush got only harder due to there being NO resting moments to heal up between battles. It went from a boss rush to a downright gauntlet of 5 battles you had to endure.
It may not be lik the boss rush examples here, but it was a lot of fun to try. All be it balls hard at points.
I liked that as well. The repetition isn't as bad as people say, and those sidequest challenge (in both a story and gameplay sense) the protagonists quite well.
It's a shame Second isn't as strong as Default.
@@nicoloenricorimoldi7425 It does fix flaws from the first game by making job classes actually functional (who even uses arcanist) and the gameplay is quicker and easier to navigate with the quick brave & default using shoulder buttons. Heck, the story does use some neat gimmicks that BD touched but never completed. But still, the story feels a bit shorter in return. I do miss the journal entries for each character met and location explored.
I think it's really a "gameplay over story" for me, but in my opinion both games are good in two completely different aspects.
I feel like second improved the gameplay but sacrified everythigng else for it.
The writing is weaker and generally cheesy with retcons, fanservice, poor attemps at humour and flanderized/weak characters.
The secret cutscene from BD, for example, is basically shoehorned in, as Magnolia has a different personality in the actual game (just like Yew, Janne and Nikolai in comparison to the demo).
The soundtrack is a lot weaker, and it really did wonders for the game back in Default.
I also feel the new asterisk holders don't have much synergy from a gameplay perspective, and Second doesn't shake up the refights as much as Default did in chapters 5-8. The way you get asterisks is much worse too, with the moral choice clashing with the asterisk choice and the fact that you have to choose the other option in NG+.
The game, as you said, is also less complete/shorter, and recycles a lot from its predecessor.
In the end, I'd say Default is the better game, and I'm a "gameplay over story" guy myself.
About Wind Waker's boss fight. I understand that is boring to play 4 Zelda fights again, but the boss fight is for you feel the power of your new Master Sword. When you attack these bosses you literally crush them, much faster than the normal battle.
Another nice vid, as to be expected!
Whilst I do like the idea of a power trip - and do agree with you that, when done poorly or in a genre that doesn't cater to it well - I feel like the Shovel Knight example proves a bit stronger than Mega Man, as the player is still presented with something of a challenge, but they're able to see how greatly their skill has improved. This puts the "power trip" in the player's hands as opposed to the game's hands, and it feels really good.
My favorite application of the boss rush, however, is Castlevania Rondo of Blood, which I totally recommend you check out if you can get the Turbo-CD/Wii VC/PSP version (which I know is hard to get now but damn Dracula X on the SNES is not a good port, do not recommend). The penultimate boss is the Dark Priest, Shaft, who's basically portrayed as a summoner. In lieu of making you fight bosses you've previously beaten, Shaft summons a gauntlet of the bosses from the original NES Castlevania - the Giant Vampire Bat, Medusa, the Mummy, and Frankenstein's Monster - before taking you on himself. Gotta beat all five bosses in one shot, and you only get a healing item after beating Mummy. However, the game lets you continue right before the boss room, the monsters follow patterns similar to their NES counterparts, and the game lets you pick from a bunch of different sub-weapons. It's an amazing feeling to go from just barely scraping by the bat and getting destroyed by Medusa to learning all of their patterns and getting to Shaft with only a bit of damage taken, and probably one of the best forms of both player growth and fanservice I've seen in an action platformer.
And y'know, rest of the game's pretty rad, too.
Hey Pyrr - thanks for your support on this one! I definitely need to check out that game - especially since I'm planning on a Castlevania episode down the road. I think what you bring up with Rondo of Blood goes back to an interesting concept that Igarashi implemented when he led up the series, which is that each boss's programmer had to be able to beat the entire fight without taking a lick of damage. This brings up the point of mastery in difficult situations, while still being able to learn through fair patterns and telegraphs.
Thanks for the recommendation!
The king of boss rushes will always be Kirby
7:38 the world is gonna roll me
I ain’t the sharpest tool in the shed 🤣
Thanks for checking this one out, HZ - I appreciate it!
She was looking kind of dumb with her finger and her thumb
In the shape of an L on her forehead.
Well, the years start coming and they don't stop coming
@@ssarco1428 *Karen took the kids and i'll catch her while running*
Good video, but I think your math is off on the Shovel Knight possibilities because it's only semi-randomised. Polar Knight is guaranteed to be no later than 3rd as an anti-frustration feature, since he's the only knight with an instant death hazard.
Hey Arcengal - thanks for clearing this up! I never knew about this until recently, so I think that would change the math to maybe 7! * 3, which is over 15k. Still a lot, but no where near where my misunderstanding put us.
I think that’s a cool way to break the randomness though! YCG is always thinking of everything.
Thanks for checking this one out!
Now A Hat in Time has boss rematches too, and it's like the exact opposite of a power trip.
Haha fair enough - I need to check that one out while researching Hat!
Thanks for bringing this up, PGB!
No problem!
I also just realized Super Paper Mario is another game that likes boss rematches, a bit too much actually. 7 bosses are toucher versions of earlier ones, 3, including the final boss, are alternate versions of earlier bosses that play differently, and 1 is exactly the same as his first encounter.
Huh - I’ll need to add that to the research list and check it out, because I remember liking SPM quite a bit back in the day
Lovely, a new Game design channel. Aaaand subbed :) I also like the channel name. It makes too much thing. A well-designed game works flawlessly without a dedicated tutorial or if there was one, you could skip it and play without problem.
Hey Lugmillord - thanks for checking out my stuff! I completely agree with your insight on tutorials - it's a big reason why the Mega Man X intro stage is so killer, as Egoraptor is quick to point out!
I love the background music choices
Hey Gavriel - thanks for picking up on those! You’ve got a keen ear 👍
I appreciate your kind words on this one and thanks for checking it out!
I've been playing Chrono Trigger, and it has an interesting take on the boss rush. You see, Lavos has been absorbing the DNA and whatnot of all creatures that have lived on Earth for the past 65 million years*, and in the final boss battle, Lavos copies several prior boss fights before letting you fight its core. Interesting concept, made only slightly less interesting by the way you get its multiple endings.
*Including some robots from after when the boss fight takes place and a dinosaur that you killed before it arrived on Earth. It's probably explained by some time travel gubbins, I guess? Except the bit about how it got the
1:25 "lol thanks i forgot to subscribe"
-me
Hey thanks for the support! I really appreciate the help 👍
Binding of Isaac worth a mention. Boss Rush available if you beat a certain progress point boss within a time limit, (Mom), but it is just side challenge; not something you have to face to progress
Alot of people hate boss rushes. But I love them when they work. They make for a satisfying pennultimante challenge that have a good power trip and reflection on what you learned. They also don't have to be fast, Mega Man Unlimited offers a slow paced, very challenging short chamber. And well, in games like Shovel Knight were they don't have weaknesses. Mega Man 3, 4 and 9 I feel like have better boss rushes but MM2 is still a good example even if nowhere near the king.
The best boss rush I've ever seen is the Pantheon of Hallownest (Hollow Knight), which has you fighting all the games 40+ bosses in a row with altered arenas and a couple of surprise fights
I like how you made a jump cut at 1:30 right as you were about to die to the laser
Nice catch, 2frikinbeast! I didn’t even notice this until I watched back the rendered cut, since most of the time I make cuts to audio queues in my speech pattern and just fill in blanks with b roll gameplay 🤣
Thanks for watching this one! I really appreciate it!
@@skipthetutorial Keep up the quality videos, and I'll keep watching!
Haha sounds like a plan 👍
My personal thoughts on boss rushes? Bosses themselves work so well at the end of the level because they basically provide a climax for that level, often coinciding with the climax of that level’s plot, if it has one. Sticking a boss rush right before the final boss provides a final climax for the final dungeon as well as pumping up the player (in a similar vein, no less) for the grand finale.
Megaman's boss rush came before Kirby's? It is just such a great idea I would believe more than person put it together. I hope LA-MULANA 2 gets a biss-rush mode like the last one...
Check out Furi. Nothing, but bosses. ; - )
Hey gn Fur - thanks for the recommendation! I’ll definitely add that one to the research list 👍
Thanks for watching this one - I really appreciate it
"Delve deeper and deeper into Ganons lair", AKA, the first room of Ganons tower. lol
I don't know why, but I feel like this channel is gonna blow up. It just keeps on getting into my reccomended list.
Hey MC! Hopefully it’s been a welcome addition to your recommends, otherwise - sorry for the inconvenience! Thanks for checking it out!
It was a very enjoyable video! I don't usually see this much effort from smaller channels, but creating quality content is its own reward, and I hope it pays off in the end.
That means a lot - I’m glad you enjoy the content!
When I enjoy a platformer with combat like these games, I will want a boss rush. There's nothing like maxing your skill then testing it in a gauntlet of the toughest fights!
I definitely learnt a lot about how to beat each boss in Shovel Knight through the boss rush. When I first came up against the boss rush, it took me many, many tries to finally beat it, but I think it really improved my skills with a shovel, and during my second playthrough of the game, I’m pretty sure I beat the boss rush in a fraction of the time. It’s definitely a good way of teaching players how to most efficiently deal with obstacles.
I 100% agree - it’s a really neat way to feel a progression directly through your controller, and not just a story or plot reason telling you that you’re now beefed up.
I appreciate your thoughts on this, Roran! Thanks for the write up 👍
Hardest boss rush is pantheon of hallownest, makes u go against all the bosses you've fought before (over 30) and a harder version of the final one, and if u die u need to start over again
Metal Blade, the best weapon in the Mega Man series? Sorry, but I have to disagree here. If a weapon is to be truly great, it must be useful, balanced, and fun to use. I can't deny Metal Blade's usefulness, but the fact that this weapon is so strong gives you pretty much no reason to use the other weapons at all, save for weaknesses. It's only average amounts of fun to use, too.
Now, with this criteria, allow me to name thirty special weapons that I consider superior to the Metal Blade.
1.) Rolling Cutter
2.) Fire Storm
3.) Thunder Beam
4.) Quick Boomerang
5.) Shadow Blade
6.) Magnet Missile
7.) Search Snake
8.) Rain Flush
9.) Flash Stopper
10.) Pharoah Shot
11.) Ring Boomerang
12.) Dive Missile
13.) Drill Bomb
14.) Gyro Attack
15.) Flame Blast
16.) Knight Crusher
17.) Silver Tomahawk
18.) Junk Shield
19.) Slash Claw
20.) Flash Bomb
21.) Black Hole Bomb
22.) Jewel Satellite
23.) Plug Ball
24.) Tornado Blow
25.) Magma Bazooka
26.) Hornet Chaser
27.) Laser Trident
28.) Concrete Shot
29.) Triple Blade
30.) Solar Blaze
While yes, the Metal Blade is super useful, there's more to a weapon than just killing everything. That's why I don't consider it the best weapon. It has to be good in gameplay, of course, but what's the point in playing the game if using the weapon completely saws it in half? As it stands, the Metal Blade is just an average weapon in my eyes.
Hey Noah! Thanks for laying out your list - I really appreciate you taking the time to do that. My point here was that the metal blade is the most impactful weapon in my opinion for its versatility, number of uses, and effectiveness against bosses. As far as best designed, I definitely wouldn’t be including this in any kind of revolutionary video game weapons list, but I would place it very high if not highest in this series regularly obtained sub weapons.
I appreciate you checking out the video!
Oh, and also, great video. The quality shown here is something I'd expect from a much larger channel. Very nicely done!
Also, about that health drop in Mega Man issue, they fixed that in Mega Man 3 and beyond. Mega Man 1 didn't even HAVE health drop from bosses, making it especially painful to get through.
Thanks! It means a lot to me that you dig the content - super humbling! Good to hear about the health power up - I’ll fully admit that I played Mega Man 2 in recent for this video, but it’s been a while since my run ins with the rest of the series - so thank you for pointing this out!
Gunstar heroes does this, but the bosses have different attack patterns and robots than before, like the following:
When you first encounter Green in stage 2, he was piloting a giant robot that can transform into seven different forms(Seven Force). In the rematch, he is no longer piloting Seven Force, and is instead fighting you on foot (and yet he's harder to beat than the previous bosses, most of whom were using giant robots)
Orange is a big guy who you fight on an airplane(at first). In the first battle, he tries to knock you off by lunging at you or if you get too close, he may even toss you off (don't worry, it's not a one-hit kill, because if you fall off the airplane, you just jump back on it). In the rematch, you're fighting him in an arena with a platform above it, and he has different attacks.
Then there's Black, who sends you in a dice maze before fighting you, and even the robot he pilots uses dice. In the rematch, he flies a helicopter with a lot of lasers.
Hey Chris! Thanks for bringing this up - I don’t have nearly any playtime on GSH, but I’d love to visit the series based off your recommendation. Especially after playing through Cuphead, it would be great to see the themes from inspiration to spiritual successor.
Thanks for checking this one out!
Nioh had a boss rush before the final narrative boss battle. At first I appreciated it just as anyone else would-but then the more I realized the game is designed to farm those bosses (and farm EVERYTHING) and that the gamer herself has probably already done this multiple times before that point, I start to begin to think I would not have preferred a boss rush.
I really liked the wind waker boss rush. The time when you mentioned the crab, it didn't really feel like a "Look how much you've grown" instead it's more of a "I know your secret" feeling
Hey Digaddog - your take on this is interesting to me. In my opinion, the satisfaction of knowing the answer comes from playing through it the first time and having the aha! moment, but on repeat encounters, this is lost. I think this is actually a reason why puzzle games are so hard to design for longevity, since a replay factor really only banks on beating it faster.
Thanks for your thoughts on this! Interesting to hear your side
you forgot to mention explosive alchemists and scythe specters in your intro
Plague knight has the same bosses plus shovel knight and minus himself, the actual structure doesn't change. I cant recall Spwcter knight even having a rush.
If you ask me, another good boss rush is the one in the original Azure Striker Gunvolt. Though the Seven all died, they were brought back to take revenge by a boss who now presents an added challenge and a new facet to her personality. Best them, and you're rewarded with a checkpoint and a fantastic finale up against the game's best antagonist. And don't even get me started on the req's for the true ending.
Shovel Knight's boss rush is actually better since by then you probably have all relics and can see just how much you actually progressed. there's no fixed way to defeat a boss, so you can go wild and beat them easily in your own style. It's like a power fantasy almost. Compare that to Mega Man's boss rush. It will likely play the same way every time because there's one optimal way to defeat each boss. You're gonna use the same tools on them every single time, and that's very similar to Zelda WW when you think about it.
The most underrated channel EVER.
I just found out about your channel, and damn is it good!
Hey Nikolamar - that means a lot to me! Thank you for making my day with the kind words - I’m humbled you like the content 👍😄
What about Kirby boss rushes?
I love a few boss rush games. Nice video dude :D
Amazing as always, good job
I'd like to add, even if I know that it's clearly not as refined as megaman or shovel knight, that Kirby games do have this kind of things as well. I particularly recall "nightmare in dreamland" having some sort of boss tower, with Dedede's theme played in the background (I remember because I love Dedede) so that did feel like a boss rush of sorts, and taking it to some more recent years I'd say that both "the arena" and "the true arena" are clear examples of bosses amping up the difficulty and expanding the story (see superstar ultra and return to dreamland for difficulty and planet robobot for story reasons)
I hope this made sense in some way, and if it didn't I hope you have a good day
Hey Carl - I'm glad you liked it, thanks for check it out!
I agree with your Kirby assessment, but with this one I really wanted to focus on the power trip aspect, which I don't notice as much in the pink fluffball series [still love it though!]
I plan to give that series its fair boss praise soon enough, so stay tuned for that!
This guy:mega man bosses rushes rule as they make you feel awesome
X7 boss rush:nervously cries in the distance “I’m longer than the average NES game”
Great video, in the past months I've replayed through the Classic series in order leading up to 11. Now after watching this I want to play through Shovel Knight again.
Hey Ukulele! I highly recommend revisiting SK - it’s always a great time for each campaign. Nice work making it through all the classic games, you must be a bonafide pro by now!
Thanks for checking this one out
@@skipthetutorial Shovel Knight was one of the first games I got on My Switch. However since I played through all three campaigns over a year ago I haven't revisited it.
I was planning to when King Knight came out, but that continued to get delayed.
Shovel Knight is definitely one of my favorite platformers from recent years and I wish I didn't wait so long to finally play it.
At least you got to finally enjoy it! Here’s hoping King Knight is as grandiose and spectacular as the delays and press releases would have us believe.
Kirby has really good boss rushes.
Its really great to be able to pick a power you love and beating all the bosses with ease.
... *Until you get to the True Arena...*
Hey DoodleWill! Kirby does a really solid job with boss rushes, but I'm always going to partial to the ones where you have traceable progression when you fight, instead of just picking a good ability to combo through.
Thanks for checking this one out! I really appreciate you taking the time to watch it
Kirby also has a boss rush, The Arena
If you do a new game plus on shovel knight, the boss rush is much harder (with no cheats) because about every 3 bosses you beat, you only get a full heal then, (because in new game plus, there are no turkeys, they are replaced with bombs.)
For the most part I like boss rushes and I'll agree Wind Waker's is pretty lame since it doesn't feel like you can use any new tactics. I did like the Boss Rush in Skyward Sword though probably since it was bigger set up and optional.
Far as Megaman vs Shovel Knight boss design I do have an issue with Shovel Knight bosses that Specter Knight is the boss I have the hardest time with only because you fight him very early and you have few upgrades. I almost feel all the bosses are balanced around non upgraded Shovel Knight. I remember just rushing into a bunch of them spamming the shovel button and damage boosting through the fights.
There is actually some notable progression differences in Wind Waker's boss rush with the first two bosses, being that you have the fully empowered Master Sword instead of the Hero's Sword. For all the bosses in the rush, you also probably have a fatter health bar and maybe a new skill.
I gotta say though, there's not much more satisfying than 1-cycling the plant boss using the Hurricane Spin with Elixir Soup power up.
And I guess if you want to count it, you do also have full access to the Hero's Charm if you got it before doing the boss rush (even if you originally beat all 4 bosses without having yet done that particular side quest).
Okami also does a similar thing with the boss rush right before the end, making the player fight against the 5 prior main story bosses, and because there's a more in depth weapon progression system in Okami, you can really appreciate and feel the differences in power between your using the basic Power Slash celestial brush technique with the first reflector and rosary to when you're rematching the same boss with the Inferno technique and gold-dusted 5th tier reflector and glaive.
Hey Catcocomics! To that I'd say the progression doesn't entirely change the context of the fights in the way a new relic might in SK's fight. While MM2 has some weapons that are purely just used to easily dispatch foes, the fights in that game are much more quantitative health bar based, whereas WW is built around a form of puzzle design using the proper weapon to make the enemy vulnerable. Even if the sword is more powerful, this just means you have to make them vulnerable less.
I haven't played Okami so I can't give my thoughts on its bosses, but I'll make sure to check it out!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts here
High points and using weapons
But yeh more items
Ssbu needs a boss rush added in an update. Yeah there's the final battle with a bit of a boss rush in it but theres no proper boss rush
Makes me think of the arena in kirby
Interesting discussion on boss rushes. Although I will always hate boss rushes, I can understand your points. Although DMC4 boss rush sucked with every boss, you have to play a board game before you can fight them.
I used Quick Man's weapon on the subscribe button instead. Hah! I got you, I didn't do what you said.
I am very disappointed you did not feature Hero Core (with its Normal, Hard, and "reallyjoel's dad" difficulty modes).
I used to work on a dev team, (eventually quit) and one of the things we cut was a boss rush. A BOSS RUSH, of all things! Every game needs a boss rush. Even games without bosses need a boss rush.
I think you’ve cracked the code here! I’ll gladly sing the praises of boss rushes, even if some examples don’t work out, just because when they hit - they hit hard.
Thanks for sharing, Kingslayer - I appreciate you stopping by!
Skip the Tutorial
No problem! Thanks for the vid!
I really appreciate these videos!
Gonna nerd on you a little, though; at 4:35 you say something like "It's here that the situation starts to divulge." I'm pretty sure you mean "diverge"; "divulge" means "disclose" or "reveal".
Hey Spencer! Thanks for catching this - my brain was misremembering how Robert Frost goes 🤣
I appreciate you helping me out with that one - thanks for nerding!
I really like the shovel knight one cause it is pretty fair to youeven if the bosses are random every time
Skip, i frickin love u bro. Congrats on 3000 subs my dude, but where tf is the push up video
TIMMY - my man! Good to hear from you. The push up video is 100% still on my mind, I just want to really do right by it when it comes out because it’s been so long now 🤣 Gimme a month and hold me to it, I’ll start work on it after the new series launch this week 👍
A great video, and you did well explaining why TWW falls short with its boss rush. I'd also argue that there just isn't much to TWW's bosses in the first place (besides the stellar soundtrack accompanying them, of course). Perhaps you could do a video about how such bosses can be done well or poorly?
Hey Brennan! I completely agree with your assessment on the soundtrack - it should be illegal for a game to have that many jams! I’m currently researching a special episode about Zelda bosses across the whole series, and what could be cleaned up in these fights to be even more enjoyable - so thanks for the recommendation and stay tuned for that!
Good to hear from you, and thanks for checking out this video!
Ok so this video is fantastic and you deserve tons more subs, but the fact that megaman 2 is in full screen kinda bugged me the whole video
Hey Ryan 👋 Thanks for checking this one out - I’m glad you liked it!
I record with a Retron 5, so that makes it all HD. From an editing standpoint, this makes it really nice, but I can totally see how it’s irregular and abnormal from a viewing standpoint. I appreciate your feedback on this and I’ll definitely be thinking about it for the next edit 👍
Another case of a boss rush not working is the Ark of Yamato in Okami. For starters it's the game's final level and you can't leave once you exit. But like Zelda, the bosses are puzzle focused so finishing the progress the player has made doesn't make things much easier, especially since the developers neglected that players had already fought Orochi twice, and the fight with him is easily the most repetitive.
But probably the worst case if Devil May Cry 4. You have to fight most of the bosses again, and you already fought them once as Nero and then fought them again as Dante. By this point most the players are no doubt sick of them.
Though to be honest I feel Devil May Cry 4 should have be redesigned from the ground up to allow the player the choice of using Nero or Dante before a level, like how the player could choose between X or Zero in later X games, instead of being forced to effectively play through the game as Nero, then play it again as Dante but with the level order in reverse before switching back to Nero.
Hey Dragonstormx - great to hear from you! I don’t have a lot of playtime on these titles, but from what you described on them, that might be for the best on some aspects haha. Thanks for sharing these examples and taking the time to lay out your thoughts!
I don't like forced boss rushes. They just bore me, they are essentially backtracking.
Hey Gnidel! That's fair - I really dig them from the standpoint that they are backtracking but with the whole context changed, as opposed to just running through them again. Thanks for the feedback - I appreciate your thoughts on this!
*breathes in*
HOLLOW KNIIIIIIGHT
Very good video. But I really want your opinion in Hollow Knight Godmasters boss rushs. Do you play it? What you think about?
I hate boss rushes with a passiona
Edit: A perfect power trip should be handled like Mega Man Zero 3: optional pathways that give you all powerups for a short amount of time but it negatively effects your ranks
OK. What about Hollow Knight's Boss Rush ?
This is a really good and interesting video! Nice job!
Hey Hippo HuMan! Thanks for checking this one out - I’m humbled to hear your enjoyed it 👍
Hi, I've been catching up on your videos in one go and I'm liking what I'm seeing so far. My one piece of (hopefully constructive) criticism: your scripts are fun and informative and well paced, but you could maybe use a second pass to tidy up a few things. For example, quite a few contain malapropisms (in this video you use the word "divulge" as a synonym for "separate" which doesn't work (divulge means to make something private known). I know this sounds like a nitpick and it is, but a malapropism can really throw the listener off. Maybe have a think about the sort of vocab you want to use and create a style guide for yourself to check against (or have someone else proof read your scripts, that's what I do with my work). Great stuff so far, keep it up.
Hey Joshua - thanks for watching them through! I've been making an effort toward working more in refining my scripts, and the honest reason the misalignments come in is that I write as I talk and I talk like I write, for better or worse haha.
I appreciate the advice - and I'll keep extra mindful for the future!
im a buster shooter through and through
1:31 they cut off just as he dies
Metal blade best power up? The double jump in mega man zero 3 vastly outclasses it.
When are you going to do a King Knight run without shoulder bashing?
It's a great video, but please, why would you ever stretch an NES picture to widescreen? I'm sorry but it looks horrid.
I'd really appreciate if you kept the original aspect ratios of the games in your videos in the future. Funny thing about the NES aspect ratio is that the pixels aren't actually perfect squares; they're just slightly wider than they are tall, but displaying them as perfect squares would still be better than stretching the picture to widescreen.
Hey there! This is recorded on the Retron 5 system, which I play with it retracing each pixel to the new widescreen resolution to display it. With your comments as well as some feedback from others - i think the next video where I use these, I’ll show them at their native and just leave background blank behind. Thanks for pointing this out!
ah alright, that makes sense.
If using real hardware/getting a good quality image out of older games is something you prioritize (as opposed to emulators), I would like to recommend a YT channel called MyLifeInGaming. They have a series covering different retro consoles and all the different ways you could get video output from them (many of which most people don't know about), so it's nice to know. The Retron5 does use emulation by ripping the rom file out of the cartridge, as opposed to really playing off of the cartridge, so I thought I'd bring that up.
And yeah, sorry if my comment came off as a bit whiny. It was a great video despite my comment, and I really enjoyed the thoughts you brought up.
Just finished watching your videos...great stuff
Hey Hue! Thanks for checking them out - I appreciate you taking the time to watch my stuff
_Pantheon of Hallownest flashbacks_
I gotta be honest here, your gameplay in Megaman 2 featured in this video is pretty subpar. You seem to be having some issues reacting to things I had no trouble dodging given the amount of reaction time given per situation. Response time latency? Maybe playing a real NES through an LCD? Thank goodness for that broken metal blade, I guess.
ALRIGHT I GET IT, I'll FUCKING FINISH PANTEHON 4.
Best of luck, Christopher! I’m sure you’ll work through it, no problem
Thanks for checking this one out
Fun fact, the boss rush in shovel knight is rigged so polar knight is always one of the first you'll fight. His fight features one-hit-kill spikes, so getting killed by them late in the stage would feel cheap.
Hey BioSpark! Thanks for bringing this up. I just recently learned of this, so that would put the number of boss fights somewhere closer to 7! * 3 which is roughly 15k combinations instead of the large number I used. I appreciate you catching this!
Somehow I missed the ichor challaces on my first run...
I really love your videos. Also, you are the first creator to respond to one of my comments!
Happy to talk with you, PNP! Thank you for checking out this one and I appreciate the continued support!
I mean in wind waker you have a fully powered master sword in the rematches.
Hey Imani - thanks for bringing this up! While this is true, I would argue that it doesn't change the context of the fights in the same ways the other two examples do. It's not necessarily a new subset of strategy from figuring out weaknesses or better synergies, but just that you're the same but a little stronger.
Thanks for checking this one out and sharing your thoughts!
Remember when stt wansnt just minecraft?
I love boss rushes.
Hey BA - me too! Done properly, they really are solid examples of game design conclusions. Luckily, there's plenty of good examples out there!
Thanks for watching this one
I love boss rushes
I killed enchantress with a fishing rod
Looks like I need a card.
First ‘this video had 2k likes. Now I liked and it has 2,1k
I think opening with a thesis would be beneficial for these videos. Maybe you did and I didn’t get it, but I just watched your video and don’t really remember anything besides that you like boss rushes, think mega man 2 did a good job because you have new stuff, like shovel knight because you got better at the game, and don’t like Zelda because Zelda bosses are mini-puzzles. Not sure what power trip means, or why they’re needed.
Perhaps putting some text on screen to hammer these points in would be great.
Hey Super2thesam! Thanks for bringing this up - this has been something I’ve been pushing for with recent scripts because I never really wrote scripts with a defined thesis, and rarely stated it clearly in the video. My recent video about fan games improves upon this, at least in my own biased mind.
The power trips refers to the ease that you can beat these bosses with, but I agree there is always room for more elaboration.
Thanks for checking this one out!
Metal Man versus Metal Man
TOTAL OBLITERATION!!!!!!!
You know what game doesnt need boss rushes or any second encounters with bosses? Dmc and bayonetta. Both dmc3 and bayo 1/2 slow down dramatically by making you fight the bosses again which is very annoying and breaks the pace. Games like megaman or shovel knight do boss rush fine because of the more simplistic design.
Hey hhheeeccckkk - I have to agree with you there. I think the more progression based a fight is, instead of just being learned skills, the more satisfying it is to replay the fights in a new angle.
Thanks for checking this one out!
DMC 3 only requires you to refight 3/9 bosses (Cerberus, Agni & Rudra, and Beowulf), the rest can be skipped. DMC 3 bosses also have elemental weaknesses and each weapon has an elemental attribute to it, so putting a boss rush into that game makes sense considering the context.
DMC 4 is a much better example of a poorly handled boss rush since it also includes the awful dice game, plus it already made you refight all the bosses earlier as Dante.
you get the idea though. on my first playthrough i had no idea what bosses to fight again and thought i had to fight all of them. obviously i noticed the portal after a while but that wasnt until after i fought a majority of them again. maybe i missed something in that level but i dont remember the game telling me which ones i had to fight.
The ones you have to fight are signified by the crystal puzzle you can find in the center of the boss rush hub. It gives you a clue about the gem lights when you inspect it.
It's easy to miss, though, so I don't blame you.
mega man 2 normal mode here is basically an easy mode......the harder mode was the default difficulty when they made the game
Your video is awesome! That stretched Megaman footage is pretty ugly though.
Hey ExaStarless! Thanks for pointing this out - I record on the Retron 5, so I have it fit widescreen because it’s easier to edit, but I understand that this is off-putting and I won’t be doing it in future gameplay footage - thanks for bringing this up!
I appreciate you checking this out
Thanks for taking my suggestion into consideration (re-reading it I hope it didn't sound rude). Keep up the good work. I'm definitely looking forward to your next videos! :)
Haha no worries you’re all good - thanks for staying tuned!
Phew...almost missed the video
I really appreciate the support on each upload, DF! Thank you for keeping the streak alive
Power trip
I really wish I could love shovel knight, but I just can’t I know that it’s being true to the megaman series it’s trying to emulate but the controls just feel terrible, they have precision true but they lack the juice of modern games. The fact that you can’t jump off ladders is a major gripe of mine, it really annoys me.
So although I. An appreciate it conceptually I can’t find anything in it to enjoy as the basics of the movement just feel terrible for me.