I love my commencal meta ht because of how fun it is on jumps and fast flowy trails which is what I love to ride. However it’s my first “real MTB” so I’m glad to hear your thoughts from someone who’s ridden so many bikes for so long. Great video!
Just for the record if anyone is curious about the meta: I have a 2021 and ride on 'midwest' trails. Mostly hard dirt with roots and very few rocks. I wouldn't describe the ride as harsh at all. So if you don't ride on hard rock all the time, don't worry about the ride quality. With 2.6 tires at 20 psi it is a tank. I barely ever ride over stuff that makes wish for rear suspension. Like he says he's observing the small differences between bikes and giving his first impressions. I'm sure other bikes are more comfortable and have better geo, but unlikely you would be disgusted by the meta if you bought one.
I ride extremely gnarly trails in the PNW and countless days at whistler bike park and I have been riding the Meta for the last few years. I love it! not harsh! "
I think anyone can get used to just about any bike and it will feel normal to them. If you've only ridden a 2001 specialized hardrock, that would feel good to you. You only start to feel these differences after testing tons of different bikes.
I rented one for 2 days in the Alps in France. I found the ride quality to be pretty harsh and rear end was super short. The bike felt too focused on bike park style riding. I climbed a mountain and descended on it and that short rear end felt unstable when I broke traction on the way down.
One big thing is he knows his bikes. He has trail days on all of the bikes not just demo days. Is this a good bike might be a good bike. So he will find the differences we all may not find. I bought it because it fit nicely for my short size. Plus you can not get a good build on a bike like a Santa Cruz for $2600. For every I always wanted a Santa Cruz chameleon but for some reason it never seemed right this time the time I was able to buy one.
Love the channel so refreshing to see a channel all about hardtails. I'm so burnt out with the majority of mtb channels that just review full suspension bikes. I started mountain biking in the early nineties with rigid bikes and then hardtails, I have owned a few full suspension bikes and a couple were ebikes but never really got what was so great about full suspension, I've now returned to a hardtail a orange clockwork evo and I can't believe how good these modern geometry hardtails are, such a shame other channels don't give more time to hardtails,keep up the good work, jason UK.👍
Came across your channel on a recent search for a fresh hardtail. Being from Vancouver, I know of Commencal as a local company and was interested in a non-local opinion. I have come to really appreciate your thoroughness and considerations. Thanks for your review, keep up the good work!
Do you need help deciding which bike to purchase next? I offer a one-on-one bike consultation service through patreon. It's how I put food on the table for my family, and how I'm able to provide custom bike advice for my vieewrs. Become a patron today for access: sign up for the monthly bike consultation tier, and cancel at any time. Most people sign up for a month or two, and we work together to discuss their needs, riding style, etc. to narrow down the list of all the great hardtails out there. When they get the info they need and they no longer have any questions, they cancel. Become a patron today: patreon.com/hardtailparty. If my videos have saved you time or money, consider supporting this channel for as little as $5/month. I hope this channel is able grow so I can make more videos in the future. Support individual content creators over garbage tv or sponsored content disguised as reviews.
Welp im stumped now, was very close to getting one of these and now i'm back to square one. Thanks for the review it probably saved me a lot of headache.
Jan Slagter if u planning on riding terrain like this u should consider a softer bike but as I live in England where everything is mud roots and jumps I bought one of these and have had no problems with it being uncomfortable at all. It is a really agile bike with excellent quality for price. I personally bought the cheapest version and the only thing I’ve considered upgrading is the drivetrain which is a lot better in the other version. I would 100% recommend this bike if ur out to have fun ride aggressive and hit more flowery jumpy trails
Awesome and honest review of the Meta ht. I ride a 2016 Meta ht. I wanted a MTB that rode and had the same geometry as BMX and the Commencal fit the bill. Riser bars would give it more of a BMX feel. But it would sacrifice what little front end control the bike already has on technical ascents. This bike is not for everyone but everyone should ride one.
It's nice to see some review about this bike. I own the 2019 Race 29 spec the bike feels like a dirt jumper and is very stiff at the back like you mension you have to charge everything. This is a good bike for urban freeride, dirt jumping and fast flow trail down the hill without brake bumps it will feels home and it will be like a roller coaster. I have bmx background and been happy with but wouldn't really recommend it for bike park day as after 6 ride down you get beat up to the points it's enough and want an FS.
I agree , i have the 2020 ride 29 , great for my local trails and jump tracks . I took it to a big mountain bike park ( fernie bc ) and thank god i brought my dh bike , after 2 runs had to switch .
You're welcome. I am enjoying your content and your reviews. You're no-nonsense straightforward presentation without any fluff is exactly what's missing in many other bike channels. Keep up the good work.
@@hardtailparty i have learned a lot about technical riding from watching your videos. I dont understand why anyone would criticize your riding because its good!
The sb5+ would be so fun with a slacker head angle. I demoed one a few years ago and loved that bike except for the steep head angle. You've got a killer bike now!
I love your brutal review!!! You reminded me why my 68 year old body is moving from hard tail to full suspension. LOL Your HT reviews are so clear - thank you. P.S. I am waiting for a FullSusp Commencal Meta TR (Large is back ordered to June), but I had wondered how their hardtails ran. BTW - I am 5'9", right on the spot where I can go either way, medium to large. Felt good on my Friend's FS Large Transition Sentinal, but I don't have two Meta to compare.
Hey! Thank you for your honest review, I really appreciate! You probably know it, but they have made some steel ones years ago. I'm an owner of the cromoly one (ride mainly in the alps) with a 160 pike (fast suspension cartidge), and I absolutly love the way it rides, much more souple than the aluminium one. The only regret is that it's not made for plus size tires... so, even with steel, it's not so comfy, but not as harsh as the alu one. Keep making party in the mountain, they are great ;)
akronyme I had the 2016 chromo version with the Pike fork, one of my favorite bikes I’ve ever ridden because it was so fun. The 2020 version definitely feels like acompletely different bike. Also surprised they didn’t make a chromo version.
Love the 95% rule. This is the reason I run short travel FS but I see many others with enduro style 160 mm fs all for 50 ft of trail. 5 secs of a 2 hour ride...Literally have folks running rigid ss and enduro bikes on the same trail.
This is the first time I've ended a review early because I didn't want to ride the bike anymore. I was really excited for this bike, you can hear it in my voice at the beginning, but by the end, I was worn out and not enjoying the ride. Hopefully this review goes to show the benefit of actually riding a bike on your terrain before buying one. So many people are drawn to the low price that they buy it sight unseen then convince themselves they've made a good purchase because of the parts spec. No matter the cost or the specs, this bike will always ride harsh.
Thanks for the review. I came to the same conclusions with my 2020 Commencal Meta HT essential build. I ended up purchasing a 2020 Chromag Rootdown and swapping all components over. Best decision ever. Far superior geometry all around, way more compliant, and just a few pounds more. Please review the Chromag Rootdown, it's a beast!
@@joelwright1822 sadly chromag isn't able to send me a frame for review. I've ridden a few rootdowns and a stylus. It's almost identical to my rsd middle child. Not super supple, but burly and the geo is fantastic. I'm convinced most people would be able to tell the difference between a middle child and a rootdown if they were blindfolded. Both are fantastic bikes for their discipline. If someone could make a complaint version of those bikes (like my middle child ti), they'd have the ideal hardtail in my opinion.
I wonder if the not-quite-plus 2.6 rear tire with a narrow rim is the reason it was a harsh ride. I recently switched from a true-to-size 3.0 to a narrow 2.8 (actual 2.65) and the rear end is much harsher on rocks. I'd love to hear your take on that theory. Thank you for the honest review.
And to think I was two weeks between ordering the Meta HT and landing on the Woodsmoke. Despite poor sales and being discontinued, I love the Woodsmoke. enjoyed the video!
I ride the 2021 frame in Nelson, New Zealand(steep and technical) and it’s sick. It can handle all the double black diamonds just fine. Back end is harsh compared to the full suss but I just learnt to absorb the hits differently and doesn’t bother me. I also found the back end easy to lift up and kick around on my size L.
@@tadams1150 Thanks, I got the medium 2nd hand for a good deal with great components, rode it twice and nah, it's not it. Too cramped knees touch bars when climbing tight corners and a bit twitchy on descents. All good though I have a large ordered and it will be mint. For anyone else out there I reckon size up if your 175cm to large.
Thanks for really honest review! One month ago I bought Meta HT 29er (replacement for Roscoe) for 95% riding and Clash 27.5 (180/165) for 5% of riding. Both bikes are really boring at mellow trails, they both wants to charge. Well it seems that this is something I prefer - to go all the way! ✌️😎
can you have long days on the clash (i've been eyeing that bike for my 5% too)? kind of whole enchilada type of ride, where you have to climb to have fun.
Felipe initial impressions for Clash is that it can climb similarly with Meta HT if you take smooth uphills, sit and spin, it does not bob. I didn’t find huge difference 27.5 vs 29 in rolling speed. If you want to attack climbs, then the suspensions is noticeable compared to hardtail. Otherwise it’s great bike to pedal to the spot and send it. It opens up in downhill and has no problem getting you there ! But I can only compare it to hardtail, never ridden short travel trail bike, but I don’t see reason to have one since hardtail is actually for that and long travel bike for downhill. Hope that helps
Hi Hardtail Party! Thanks for the great reviews and tips on the channel!👍 Have you ever thought about reviewing a Whyte 905? I got this for about one year now and think you might would love it. Greetings from Germany, stay healthy and partying! ✌
I think the reach is even shorter on the scout. I hope to get one in for review soon. If I love it, it'll be a great deal. I wish it could run plus tires though
The scout has a 5mm longer reach in medium and the wheelbase is 10mm shorter at 1164mm. The scout can fit 2.8 easy with plenty of clearance. I am running 2.8 on mine. I think they commencal feels less slack is because of the 160mm fork. Just at sag point it probably steepens the bike too much. The scout gets 65 hta with a 140mm fork.
@@s14tat good to know you can fit 2.8s on the Nukeproof. I'm glad the reach is 5mm longer than this, but I still think both should be even longer, but that's just my opinion. I'm glad to hear you're loving your scout. I hope to get one in for review soon, but it's not looking good.
@@hardtailparty i cannot properly test it because of lockdown. It is suposed to be quite compliant. It was just 400 € for the frame(headset included) , it was super easy to build and the quality of the frame is good. You will propably like it more than the commencal. Blake from GMBN rode it at the megavalance so it must be pretty capable.
Steve...great reviews! After a 20 year hiatus (moving from Phoenix to FL), I'm getting back into mountain biking. My last bike was a Serotta Colorado ATX 26". Looking to move into the present with a new bike! Considering a Trek Roscoe 9 or Commencal Meta HT. Seems like either of these is a pretty flexible platform for SE MTB, which is a lot of single tracks and less DH. Your input is appreaciated!
I use my wifes Meta HT as a dirt jumper with some nice MTB traits like a dropper and slightly bigger wheels. Seems super fun for that, but the harsh rear end isn't for everyone and I certainly wouldn't bring it to something as rocky as where you went. Super fun as a do it all lets jump and rail corners fun bike.
Hey great review! Too bad it didn't work better for you! I've been riding my 2020 Meta ht for about 5 months now, I live in Colorado, have ridden my Meta all over the southwest and ride very aggressive, absolutely couldn't be more smitten with my Commencal but im coming from from an old skool On One Summer Season so this feels like magic to me. Might catch you in Sedona soon!
I'm stoked to hear you love yours, that's all that matters. When this COVID-19 thing is behind us, hit me up and I'll try to join you for a ride in Sedona.
I'm not surprised by your findings even though I thought you would like it more for general trail riding. The minute I rode my daughter Meta HT (even if it's not my size), I almost felt like I was on a race bike with slacker HTA (I'm used to long travel FS bike). The bike is stiff and it accelerate so quickly (setup as a 29er also). But jumping on our small wooden sender or hopping onto curbs I felt that harshness in the rear-end. My son's Middlechild felt a lot smoother and more playful... Still wish I could try an XL on some buffed trail with berms and small jumps. I think for a do-it-all bike for my daughter it will do ok for the price... I'm curious if you will get the chance to test an aluminum Middlechild. Rocky-Mountain Growler also comes to mind for a budget trail hardtail with good geo...
I feel like the steel middle child is a far better bike in every way, except for weight. The steel mc is still a pretty stiff bike, but it's not harsh like this. I'm excited to test the aluminum one soon. I hope to get a growler too, though I've heard it's extremely stiff like this commencal. We'll see.
Good review. I had the same experience with the Meta HT. I think I described the ride as (based on my trails) stiff enough to knock out your fillings. But I have a good amount of chunky rocks that I ride. I did not try er out on any flow trails. I dropped it from my list of hardtails to consider based on my ridding and trails. Which is really too bad, for the price is a heck of a deal the way its spec'ed
What wasn't fair about it? If commencal wants to send one in for review, they're welcome to. See other comments below from people who also felt it was too stiff.
@@hardtailparty I feel like this bike comes alive when you ride it hard and put weight into the rear triangle. It takes a beating and the 2.8's start to make sense. I love your reviews and wanted to see you take it down that last stretch homie.
New here, love your vids. First I want to say that it's depressing to hear that commencal doesn't ride that good and it is harsh in the trail, since I have been looking forward to this bike really bad, I have a lower end specialized Rockhoper 3x8 Turney and mechanical brakes, so upgrading to a Meta HT It would be blast for me. In my country there are quite few options for HT with a aggressive geometry, commencal is one of them; There are also trek, specialized and Rocky mountain (friends tell me that frames don't last long). Another thing that surprises me is that you call this bike "Cheap" in my country the price is $2000 USD (Meta Essential), but I understand this because of the custom taxes, bomer.
$2000 is pretty cheap for the parts that it comes with. Most other bikes with the same parts cost $2400. There are a lot of great hardtails out there. See my other reviews to see what might suit you best.
@hardtail party I had a 2021 Meta HT AM 27.5 I rode on local trails with a 170mm bomber z1. I wanted a full sus so I built a status 160 ( with that same z1 170 fork ) then was feeling another hard tail or short travel full sus. I'm really between this, an Orbea Laufey H-LTD or YT Izzo core 2. I'm in New England and local trails are rocky and rooty with lots of punch climbs. there are not a ton of ride reviews on the Laufey seems to be a great spec'd bike.
I was honestly thinking about purchasing this bike. But now kinda second guessing myself. I'm just getting back into the sport and I honestly ride a little bit of everything. I need a bike tht can handle rough tech and flow trails. What do you recommend?
Thanks for the review Steve. This is the first bike I’ve ridden that you’ve reviewed so it’s nice to have a frame of reference now to compare to some of the other hardtail options out there. I’ve got a 2020 Meta HT AM Race 29 that I’ve only gotten a couple rides in so far but overall would agree with your review. I’m riding an XL in very different terrain and I have found the ride to be very harsh in some situations. My experience with hardtails is limited so I’d been wondering if that’s how they all rode, good to know that’s not the case. It’s definitely still a fun bike on the right trails but has it’s limitations.
Glad it helps. It's the harshest hardtail ice ridden. Most other decent hardtails will be a lot less harsh. They're still hardtails, and you won't confuse them with a full squish, but most hardtails absorb at least some of the trail. This one didn't.
I don't know how much the ride changes because of this, but the stem on that bike doesn't look like the 40mm that comes with the build and he (your friend) is also running it pretty low.
Would you recommend this bike. They have a Black Friday deal for 2250 for the race 2022 version. The big deal is I found out I can go check out the. Santa Cruz chameleon, trek roscoe, and the meta all in person all with in an hour and a half from me no big deal at all.
I agree with what you said about the steering being slow, did they make the mistake of having a 51 offset fork? Also I don’t understand how the head angle can be 65 on the models that come with 150 / 160 etc forks.
About a split second before before you say this is "stiff" I could hear the CL-angg! Reminds me of my old Specialized Rockhopper. It would just jump forward when I put the power down, I was better at that then, but it made me pay for it on the rough stuff. Looks like a nice bike for the younger crowd with younger joints who charge hard and don't know any better. Was I there once?
@@hardtailparty I appreciate your straightforward honesty. Too many reviewers tend to gloss over a frames ride quality, mentioning only efficiency of power transfer perhaps.
I think you're right about composite pedals deadening vibrations a bit more I am not a very rich man but I like to try out different pedals all the time value expensive it don't matter and I've noticed on all the machine aluminum ones that I've tried they're very harsh but I tried the one up composite and the race face chesters etc on my banshee paradox and it feels sweet noticeably less vibration going through my feet
Have you ever ridden some early "party hardtails" like a first generation Chameleon or an Eastern Woods Research OWB (Original Woods Bike)? I owned both back in the day. I had one of each for awhile, but set up as DS bikes with a 1x9 and a MRP DS chain guide, although for a short time I had the Chameleon set up as my XC race bike with 3x8 XTR parts. I did one race in 1998 on the Chameleon and while it definitely put the power down when pedaling, it also beat the crap out of me on rough descents.
Nice that you mentioned about the seat tube. You're not going to want a GG Pedalhead. I'm 5'6" with 30.6" inseam and I can only run 125mm PNW post with the OneUp seat rails to lower the saddle by 6mm. This is on size small (or S1) by the way. My Marin SQ2 2019 had 150 PNW, size Medium.
I'm actually looking into a pedal head to replace a trek Roscoe that similar to this review, I find just way too stiff. I'm 5'9 with longish legs (not sure of the actual measurement but my pants are 32 length so probably just shy of that) and looking at a small. It's an older one on pink bike so I'm still looking for numbers to see how sizing would be for me. How do you feel about the gg in terms of compliance and ride feel?
I really don't think a small is right for your size, but that's just me. I recommend trying before you buy. I know it's hard, but it will pay off in the end.
@@hardtailparty thank you for the input. That was my feeling just based on the fact that if I'm the smallest size, there are a LOT of people it wouldn't fit. The reach seems similar to what I'm used to but I'm learning from your channel everything else to pay attention to as opposed to just seat tube height or any other single number. I'd really like to ride one but isn't a possibility atm.
@@Slinkylinky179 , You should be in size Medium or S2 but expect to run only 100mm of dropper due to short max insertion seat tube on these frames. Even guys that are 6' can only run 150mm dropper post. There is a thread about that if you Google it. As for the frame, very compliant and that's the first thing you will notice.
Hi Steve! Last year I bought the Vitus Sentier VRX 2019 hardtail, do you have any thoughts on that bike, or have you ridden any from that company and can compare it to others? As a mailorder-only bike through CRC I could not ride it before ordering, but as the reviews had been good I had went for it and haven't regretted it yet, having a blast on it!
I've been trying to get a sentier for review, but no luck. I'll keep trying. A lot of UK companies aren't willing to send a frame to the us for a review, and I don't blame them. But that's a bike I've really been wanting to try.
@@hardtailparty Dang, would really have liked to hear your take on that one! But let's hope for the best, I'll keep my fingers crossed! :) Unfortunately I am in Germany, otherwise I would have gladly sent mine over for a week or two if I was state side... As I already mentioned yesterday - keep it up, really enjoying your content! :D
Hi @@cove6433! So far I like mine a lot, but I can't really tell you how it would compare to other bikes unfortunately. I also have the 27.5 version, and with the springy 2.6" tires it feels nice to ride and also quite nimble I would say. Most of the time I was in the pre-alps on forest single-tracks and some rocky and gravely sections. I think the value is also alright for that price.
looking at a ribble 725 or stanton switchback. Will be riding in British forests and mountains. need an all-round fun hardtail frame. any recomendations?
@@hardtailparty Thanks bro, think I'm going to wait for Ragley stock but im not sure. I will be hitting you up sometime this year hopefully. Love to see you review the Ribble HT 725, that's also on my radar. So glad I found your channel. I have so many questions to ask tbh. About forks, headtube angles, best frame for my weight and ride style etc.
Sounds like more of a dirt jump bike than anything. I may just take a pass on that one. Trails around here are super rooted out and full of switchbacks. I need something that rails corners but is still compliant. I wander how the nukeproof scout measures up?
I'm going to have to agree with Dean on this one. If you want a hardtail that's super compliant, look at the banshee paradox v3 I reviewed. That or a ti RSD middle child.
@@deanemberley2333 ahhh. Full sus is for folks that like their kidneys. I actually ride a canyon lux but I miss having a ht around for certain rides and a to ave as a spare.
For us that have this bike (and are kind of stuck with it), what can we do to make it more rideable? I know Ben Yorke is running 2.6 tyres and a Fox 36 up front, and The Shredist changed this tyres to 2.5 front and 2.4 back.
Great question. There's really not a whole lot you can do to alter the way a frame feels. However, here are a few tips to making it sting a little less: Is the stiffness bothering you? If not, no need to modify anything and you're golden. If so, I would try cushcore and 2.8 tires on 40i rims. I'd make sure it was a nice soft aluminum wheelset too. I'd stay away from carbon and I'd stay away from i9's wheelsets (their hubs are fine though). You could also run the ZIPP 3ZERO Moto wheels, but those cost more than the whole bike. You can run lower tire pressure and try composite pedals. Those are the only things I can think of to lessen the harshness of the frame.
@@hardtailparty I've ridden this for almost a year, and yes it does seem to be difficult to get the rear tyre up and over things. But I was a bit sad when you didn't test the bike on the descent, since this bike is classified as an 'enduro hard tail' and (for me at least) it feels very good when pointed downwards. Will try the cushcore, have been meaning to try those out anyways...do I need cushcore on the front, or will installing cushcore on the back wheel only be enough?
Ben Yorke also is running a 2020 frame and has Cush core in both tires. Also the fox 36 170mm is a big improvement from the Rockshox Yari. This is one mans review so don't let it be end all be all for you. Meta ht am is a great bike and just not his cup of tea which is fine. You can upgrade the yard with the 2.1 charger which essentially turns it into the lyrik. You can also up the travel to 170 if you'd like.
Did you get an explination to why the back weel don't want to lift? I have had that exact feeling on NS Eccentric frame. ( Alu) in 27.5 with the very same geo.
Very interesting review, unfortunately we are not getting some of the bikes you review in EU. In the cheap way there is the Rockrider AM 100 HT from Decathlon. Surprisingly, geometry seems decent in size L, 450mm reach, 66 angle, long chainstay, decent specs ans for 1000€. Seem to good to be true. But as you mention, frame quality... unknown.
O that is a nice frame. I am a salesman of those Rockrider bikes, and you'd think for such a price the frame must be super stiff and uncomfortable of vague. However every time I demo a Rockrider I am very surprised! The frames are great. Really they give a sublime ride. And a lifetime warranty on the frames too!
@@simonarends7802 Thanks for the responce! I am considering getting this or either second hand Nukeproof Scout, when this COVID maddnes finishes. I agree that Lifetime warranty is very convenient, cause recently I blow up my Orbea Alma frame.
Just now really getting into your videos, and glad you did this one. I'm a full-susser, but really want to try a modern HT, and the Meta was high on my list, but being that Tucson isn't too different from Sedona, you've got me thinking "nah" on the Meta. Still pretty interested in a Cotic, Ragley, or even the Growler 40.
I just heard about Commencal Meta HT. I was planning to buy Sentier VR 27 but then I saw this. The Commencal is $200 cheaper than the Sentier which is nice. That's a lot of savings for me. However, is the Commencal a fun to rid mtb than Sentier 27? It will be my first hardtail. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
It is like you love it or you hate it but i don‘t think there’s an in between and i think thats the problem with it i love mine but hearing this review let me think about other frames and how they could bring me even more joy and i might even try another frame or two just to see how differnt they are :) I think its a greate review becaus it describes the bike how it is 👍
If you love it, that's all that matters. That said, having ridden many modern hardtails, there are better bikes out there. Whether it's worth searching them out and swapping is up to you.
Thanks for the review! I was looking at the Commencal (along with the Nukeproof Scout) before I decided on my Whyte 905. The Whyte just seemed to have the more appealing geometry to me. I bet the Meta HT would still be fun for lots of the trails I ride, but glad I went with the Whyte.
Maybe go through the component setup of this bike, including fork sag. Could be interesting. Seems this bike has a very short stem and is highly overforked (3:35) If this is true I understand if the ride feels unbalanced
I usually do that, but this was a loaner from a friend and I didn't have it for long. The stiff feeling will remain, but handling could be improved with some component changes.
@@hardtailparty maybe you could redo the test with the new frame in a standard setup? Just a suggestion. I hear people discussing this video from time to time. And thanks for a great channel. I enjoy your videos
Very informative review. Got a question, though: I'm about to purchase my first hardtail (my online searches led me to this video). Would you recommend this as a first hardtail (first MTB, period)? If not, what are your top recommendations as a first hardtail/MTB? The "fun factor" you mentioned about this bike makes this an enticing proposition. But I'd still like to know your thoughts on this. Thanks in advance.
I was consider buy a meta ht as a new bike last year, but I don't like too high seat tube and despite good fork quite low spec components on factory build. I'm looking forward for your Orbea laufey review. I woud like to buy new ride and I can't decide between Orbea Laufley H-Ltd 2020 and Nukeproof Scout 290 expert 2020. Also after your review consider to make a build with Bashee paradox frame. What would you recomend?
It depends on where you ride, what you like on a bike, and a few other factors. I offer custom bike recommendations for my paying patrons. I haven't ridden the Nukeproof, but the reach looks really short.
@@hardtailparty Most of trails in my country are in forest. So not so hard and rocky like on your video. Gnar surface I ride is I gues around 30%. Do you have any advice how to mesure myself for good astimate appropriet reach for a frame? I'm 6 ft and inner 33,85 inch. I found good purchace for steel hardtail, but reach 510 is kind a crazy. It's frame Pipedream moxie.
How different is this to a 2021 Rockhopper. I know it's much more aggressive, but is it so drastic that even a beginner/intermediate rider would notice? I'm thinking of what my next bike is going to be and it's either an aggressive HT (HT AM/Marin San Quentin/Fuse) or a basic full sus trail bike.
good review, it's nice to see honest reviews were the pros and cons of the product are clear and compared with other bikes. but i have a doubt, could be possible that the vague feeling of the front have something to do with fork offset? i have read some comments about it affecting the ride feeling and companies tend to use different offsets on their forks (RS even offer same fork with different offsets) i have ridden just two forks on different bikes so i can't tell
@@hughsnyder891 I love it, very confidences inspiring on the steep stuff. I ride in a very rocky environment and I don't think it rides that rough, but i haven't ridden any other hardtails in along time to compare it to, so maybe I'm just use to it. Thats one reason why i would like Steve to review one, just to let me know what I'm working with.
You may have to try my 2021 Meta HT am, I have the size large which has the 445 reach and the lower seat tube. Better yet I'm only 3.5 hours from Sedona!
Where is this place? It looks amazing, I wish I could live somewhere like that! where I live in the south west of France it rains most of the winter and there are no such things as trails
Great review, I had 2016 version and interesting hearing about how harsh you say it is. I got to the point where would only ride it if riding fast smooth trails. So fun on big burms and pump tracks but as soon as got rough got to point would just take full suspension as more fun. I thought all hard tails were like that intersting to know they not.
Have you considered a review of On-One’s Hello Dave? 62 HTA and 77 STA!! It sounds and looks extreme but it would be really fun just to try it out and explore the limits of modern geo.
Looking into the 2021 Meta HT AM or the CroMo Middle Child. I see you have reviewed both. Considering the 2021 changes on the meta compared to the 19', you reviewed, which would you recommend of the two? Primary trails are single track flow with jumps, roots and SOME larger tech. I'm in the North East.
Nice review. Out of interest, have you ridden a Nukeproof Scout 275 for comparison? I've just sold my XC carbon hardtail as I've got a new-ish 29er XC dually (Scott Spark RC). The 29er is a mileage killer out in the open. However I miss my simple hardtail and want something to just have fun on, on the trails. The Scout seems to have a little more reach, but with lower stack and about the lowest BB height, compared to the Meta.
Awesome review ! , Im 172cm and Commencal is recommending size M which us only 420mm reach ! Which I think is a little to short , size L has 445mm reach sounds a little more reasonable , Im just concerned 445mm will be too Long of a reach I would really appreciate your advice on this :)
I ride the commecal meta ht am with 29“ wheels 2.4rear and 2.5 front tyre and a 150mm lyrik an it rides fine on enduro race tracks and bike parks but i agree with him in the stiff frame but a good tip is ride with clipless pedals and it is a beast but it is rough
Great review man! I like the honestly and tell it like it is. Would you recommend this bike for someone who rides mostly trails in the Santa Cruz area that wants something playful and poppy? If not what hardtail would you recommend? Loving the channel! Keep it up.
This would fit that bill, with the caveat that it's going to be stiff. I still haven't figured out what makes a bike "poppy", but some bikes like to get airborne more than others. There are a handful of bikes I'd recommend for that area, including the timberjack, chameleon, rsd middle child, and banshee paradox.
No clue. I think they we're aiming for a good peicepoint and they didn't want to warranty a bunch of frames. It's really tough to design a soft aluminum frame.
hardtail party I’d love for you to review the Growler Bikes American Pale Ale frame. You’ve made me take a hard look at an aluminum hardtail for my next build. I only weigh 160# with my gear and don’t want a overbuilt heavy and overly stiff frame.
Thanks Chris. I'm afraid a lot of owners will view this and thumbs down the video or be mad. My intention is to explain in words how a bike rides. I've got no skin in the game. If it rides harsh, I'm going to say it. If it's a rip-off, I'm going to say it. The whole purpose of reviews is to explain what it's like, not to help people justify a blind purchase.
@@hardtailparty As a owner I found it very helpful, because this was a cheap frame I tried it as my first HT and thought it was to stiff. I haven't ridden other HT so I wasn't so sure, but you help confirm my suspicion. Your other video about how frames are made and what they are made of helped as well. Hopefully other owners with little HT experience will look at it that way as well
@@CWVIEWmc thabks for not being bugged and not taking it personally that I didn't love this frame. There are some lovely hardtails out there that don't best you up. I hope you get a chance to ride one someday, as it's a conpletely different experience.
Would you still recommend this bike to a beginner? I was close to ordering the 2021 model, then went to look at reviews. Im in georgia, and I don't think our trails get quite as gnarly as these are.
Lost it after started mentioning the rear of the bike. This one doesn't look good for me. I'm still considering trying a hardtail again, since I miss it a lot. That Middlechild has my vote after watching your videos with that bike.
Great review. Love the channel. Im wondering if its not so difficult for you to make a review on the Canyon Grand Canyon 4.9 hardtail. I would appretiate your thoughts about it. Thanks ahead.
Hi man! I’m new to the hardtail world or bike world in general. Have a budget of 1500$ and have found this bike for sale and the Orbea H10 with in my price point, i have watch your review’s of them now and can’t decide which one i should go for. I want a bike i can play alittle with but i will also use it for daily ride to work and back and that is about 20km one way (not sure what it’s in mile’s). Have been dreaming about the H10 but remember u said it’s alittle harder to play with so what would you recommend? Thanks! And thanks for your video reviews, love the info i’m getting since i’m a newbie!
Nice to meet you, thanks for watching. I have a consultation service where I help make recommendations for people. It's a monthly fee, but I'd be happy to help you over there. Subscribestar.com/hardtailparty
I can't tell if this review has convinced me to step away from that bike, or has convinced me to buy it! Haha. The things it scored high on are the reasons I want to own it... fun, playful, good with jumps and flow. Good breakdown, this is the first person I've heard not loving the bike overall and I think the setting has a lot to do with it as well as riding preferences obviously.
In my opinion, there are plenty of bike that are better at fun, playful, good with jumps, and flow. I'd take the Santa Cruz Chameleon over this bike for all those things. My RSD Middle Child is also far more fun, playful, good with jumps and flow, etc. than this, but can also do really well on most trails. I also think one of the reasons i don't love the bike overall is because I've ridden a lot of hardtails. Most people reviewing this haven't ridden more than one or two decent modern hardtails, so they don't have much to compare it to.
Great review. One of the things I have noticed since finding your channel is how often in your reviews that you praise your Banshee Paradox V3. I am so glad I ordered one and cant wait to build mine up. I hope they took your advice about the water bottle mounts and the quality control issues as I had to pre order mine through Dirt Merchant and they are awaiting the current batch to get in. Absolutly Love your channel and I have learned a few things along the way. Keep up the Great content.
I appreciate the Commencal ht being stiff as I am quite a heavy rider. But really, can a HT really absorb bumps? I mean is there a big difference between other frames brands? I know they can flex from side to side but on vertical?
Yes, there's a big difference. About the same difference as running 30psi vs 25psi. That said, bigger riders often enjoy stiffer frames, as frames move differently under different weight riders.
I love my commencal meta ht because of how fun it is on jumps and fast flowy trails which is what I love to ride. However it’s my first “real MTB” so I’m glad to hear your thoughts from someone who’s ridden so many bikes for so long. Great video!
Just for the record if anyone is curious about the meta: I have a 2021 and ride on 'midwest' trails. Mostly hard dirt with roots and very few rocks. I wouldn't describe the ride as harsh at all. So if you don't ride on hard rock all the time, don't worry about the ride quality. With 2.6 tires at 20 psi it is a tank. I barely ever ride over stuff that makes wish for rear suspension. Like he says he's observing the small differences between bikes and giving his first impressions. I'm sure other bikes are more comfortable and have better geo, but unlikely you would be disgusted by the meta if you bought one.
I ride extremely gnarly trails in the PNW and countless days at whistler bike park and I have been riding the Meta for the last few years. I love it! not harsh! "
Yeah and also this guy is reviewing 2019 frame, and rn 2021 frame is out
I think anyone can get used to just about any bike and it will feel normal to them. If you've only ridden a 2001 specialized hardrock, that would feel good to you. You only start to feel these differences after testing tons of different bikes.
I rented one for 2 days in the Alps in France. I found the ride quality to be pretty harsh and rear end was super short. The bike felt too focused on bike park style riding. I climbed a mountain and descended on it and that short rear end felt unstable when I broke traction on the way down.
One big thing is he knows his bikes. He has trail days on all of the bikes not just demo days. Is this a good bike might be a good bike. So he will find the differences we all may not find. I bought it because it fit nicely for my short size. Plus you can not get a good build on a bike like a Santa Cruz for $2600. For every I always wanted a Santa Cruz chameleon but for some reason it never seemed right this time the time I was able to buy one.
Love the comment about the "rowdy frat boy that doesn't know any better". Appreciate the thoughtful review.
Would love to see a video on the 2021 as I hear the frame has been updated.
Yes! Have you seen the all brushed aluminum frame? Just ordered mine!
@@nickcsuki8123 same I just ordered the brushed aluminum frame, it looks awesome
@@ProMountainBiker Awesome! Good luck with your build!
@@ProMountainBiker can you make a video of its unboxing and build thanks would love to see the new meta
@@ProMountainBiker thinking of getting the same bike. How tall are you and what size frame did you get?
Love the channel so refreshing to see a channel all about hardtails. I'm so burnt out with the majority of mtb channels that just review full suspension bikes. I started mountain biking in the early nineties with rigid bikes and then hardtails, I have owned a few full suspension bikes and a couple were ebikes but never really got what was so great about full suspension, I've now returned to a hardtail a orange clockwork evo and I can't believe how good these modern geometry hardtails are, such a shame other channels don't give more time to hardtails,keep up the good work, jason UK.👍
Welcome to the party
Hell yeah the 90s MTBs!
as a long time bmx rider looking into mtbing, I think aggressive hardtail is the way 2 go for my skill set, this thing would feel like a beast 2 me.
Came across your channel on a recent search for a fresh hardtail. Being from Vancouver, I know of Commencal as a local company and was interested in a non-local opinion. I have come to really appreciate your thoroughness and considerations. Thanks for your review, keep up the good work!
Do you need help deciding which bike to purchase next? I offer a one-on-one bike consultation service through patreon. It's how I put food on the table for my family, and how I'm able to provide custom bike advice for my vieewrs. Become a patron today for access: sign up for the monthly bike consultation tier, and cancel at any time. Most people sign up for a month or two, and we work together to discuss their needs, riding style, etc. to narrow down the list of all the great hardtails out there. When they get the info they need and they no longer have any questions, they cancel. Become a patron today: patreon.com/hardtailparty.
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good job sir , bike safe always .
from philippines :)
Welp im stumped now, was very close to getting one of these and now i'm back to square one. Thanks for the review it probably saved me a lot of headache.
Honestly, that's one of the main goals of my reviews is to inform future buyers what a bike is like.
same here man
Jan Slagter if u planning on riding terrain like this u should consider a softer bike but as I live in England where everything is mud roots and jumps I bought one of these and have had no problems with it being uncomfortable at all. It is a really agile bike with excellent quality for price. I personally bought the cheapest version and the only thing I’ve considered upgrading is the drivetrain which is a lot better in the other version. I would 100% recommend this bike if ur out to have fun ride aggressive and hit more flowery jumpy trails
And this guys a little old so his riding styles probably stiff suggesting why he likes it on the flow stuff but not tech
This is me too now - kinda worried about pulling the trigger. I was looking at either this or a nuke proof scout
Awesome and honest review of the Meta ht. I ride a 2016 Meta ht. I wanted a MTB that rode and had the same geometry as BMX and the Commencal fit the bill. Riser bars would give it more of a BMX feel. But it would sacrifice what little front end control the bike already has on technical ascents. This bike is not for everyone but everyone should ride one.
you just said that not everyone would like this but everyone should ride one. what?
The 2021 has a shorter seat tube!!!! they must have listened to you
It's nice to see some review about this bike. I own the 2019 Race 29 spec the bike feels like a dirt jumper and is very stiff at the back like you mension you have to charge everything.
This is a good bike for urban freeride, dirt jumping and fast flow trail down the hill without brake bumps it will feels home and it will be like a roller coaster.
I have bmx background and been happy with but wouldn't really recommend it for bike park day as after 6 ride down you get beat up to the points it's enough and want an FS.
I agree , i have the 2020 ride 29 , great for my local trails and jump tracks . I took it to a big mountain bike park ( fernie bc ) and thank god i brought my dh bike , after 2 runs had to switch .
Newer subscriber, so it's probably been said before, but you have impressive technical climbing skills.
Thanks Mark. Most comments about my riding criticize my "skills." I appreciate the kind words.
You're welcome. I am enjoying your content and your reviews. You're no-nonsense straightforward presentation without any fluff is exactly what's missing in many other bike channels. Keep up the good work.
@@hardtailparty i have learned a lot about technical riding from watching your videos. I dont understand why anyone would criticize your riding because its good!
The sb5+ would be so fun with a slacker head angle. I demoed one a few years ago and loved that bike except for the steep head angle. You've got a killer bike now!
Mountain goat on wheels
You got such a nice trails in sedona. I hope one of this days i got the time to go there. Thanks for the review.
"that Banshee's ruined me" - lol. Steve, I love the videos, keep it up.
I love your brutal review!!!
You reminded me why my 68 year old body is moving from hard tail to full suspension. LOL
Your HT reviews are so clear - thank you.
P.S. I am waiting for a FullSusp Commencal Meta TR (Large is back ordered to June), but I had wondered how their hardtails ran.
BTW - I am 5'9", right on the spot where I can go either way, medium to large. Felt good on my Friend's FS Large Transition Sentinal, but I don't have two Meta to compare.
68, wow, keep on Trucken! I'm hoping I can still ride when I get to that age!
The review was no more brutal than the ride!
Hey! Thank you for your honest review, I really appreciate! You probably know it, but they have made some steel ones years ago. I'm an owner of the cromoly one (ride mainly in the alps) with a 160 pike (fast suspension cartidge), and I absolutly love the way it rides, much more souple than the aluminium one. The only regret is that it's not made for plus size tires... so, even with steel, it's not so comfy, but not as harsh as the alu one. Keep making party in the mountain, they are great ;)
akronyme I had the 2016 chromo version with the Pike fork, one of my favorite bikes I’ve ever ridden because it was so fun. The 2020 version definitely feels like acompletely different bike. Also surprised they didn’t make a chromo version.
Love the 95% rule. This is the reason I run short travel FS but I see many others with enduro style 160 mm fs all for 50 ft of trail. 5 secs of a 2 hour ride...Literally have folks running rigid ss and enduro bikes on the same trail.
This is the first time I've ended a review early because I didn't want to ride the bike anymore. I was really excited for this bike, you can hear it in my voice at the beginning, but by the end, I was worn out and not enjoying the ride.
Hopefully this review goes to show the benefit of actually riding a bike on your terrain before buying one. So many people are drawn to the low price that they buy it sight unseen then convince themselves they've made a good purchase because of the parts spec. No matter the cost or the specs, this bike will always ride harsh.
hi, hope that your next test on the specialized Fuse😊😊
Thanks for the review. I came to the same conclusions with my 2020 Commencal Meta HT essential build.
I ended up purchasing a 2020 Chromag Rootdown and swapping all components over. Best decision ever. Far superior geometry all around, way more compliant, and just a few pounds more.
Please review the Chromag Rootdown, it's a beast!
@@joelwright1822 sadly chromag isn't able to send me a frame for review. I've ridden a few rootdowns and a stylus. It's almost identical to my rsd middle child. Not super supple, but burly and the geo is fantastic. I'm convinced most people would be able to tell the difference between a middle child and a rootdown if they were blindfolded. Both are fantastic bikes for their discipline. If someone could make a complaint version of those bikes (like my middle child ti), they'd have the ideal hardtail in my opinion.
How do you like the MRP Ribbon Fork?
I wonder if the not-quite-plus 2.6 rear tire with a narrow rim is the reason it was a harsh ride. I recently switched from a true-to-size 3.0 to a narrow 2.8 (actual 2.65) and the rear end is much harsher on rocks. I'd love to hear your take on that theory. Thank you for the honest review.
Glad I've seen your review. I was looking at Commencal Meta HT, Nukeproof Scout and Ragley Mmmbop. I'm happy I went with Mmmbop. :D
And to think I was two weeks between ordering the Meta HT and landing on the Woodsmoke. Despite poor sales and being discontinued, I love the Woodsmoke. enjoyed the video!
You dodged a bullet. This is the first review bike I've ever cut a review short on because I didn't like it.
I preordered a 2021 and just saw your video. Im also a northern Arizona rider.
I ride the 2021 frame in Nelson, New Zealand(steep and technical) and it’s sick. It can handle all the double black diamonds just fine.
Back end is harsh compared to the full suss but I just learnt to absorb the hits differently and doesn’t bother me.
I also found the back end easy to lift up and kick around on my size L.
I'm also in Nz :). How tall are ya? I'm 175 smack in the medium bracket according to the sizing charts
@@msgesus4518 183, the frames are kinda small so I probably could still ride an xl if that helps...
@@tadams1150 Thanks, I got the medium 2nd hand for a good deal with great components, rode it twice and nah, it's not it. Too cramped knees touch bars when climbing tight corners and a bit twitchy on descents. All good though I have a large ordered and it will be mint. For anyone else out there I reckon size up if your 175cm to large.
Great review. Just ordered one and this was what I was expecting to hear haha.
The bike between freeride and dirt. i got the 2019 frame, its A W E S O M E !
Thanks for really honest review! One month ago I bought Meta HT 29er (replacement for Roscoe) for 95% riding and Clash 27.5 (180/165) for 5% of riding. Both bikes are really boring at mellow trails, they both wants to charge. Well it seems that this is something I prefer - to go all the way! ✌️😎
can you have long days on the clash (i've been eyeing that bike for my 5% too)? kind of whole enchilada type of ride, where you have to climb to have fun.
Felipe I plan to ride it on enduro ride tomorrow for 30-40km and 600-700 elevation. I will let you know how it rides
Felipe initial impressions for Clash is that it can climb similarly with Meta HT if you take smooth uphills, sit and spin, it does not bob. I didn’t find huge difference 27.5 vs 29 in rolling speed. If you want to attack climbs, then the suspensions is noticeable compared to hardtail. Otherwise it’s great bike to pedal to the spot and send it. It opens up in downhill and has no problem getting you there ! But I can only compare it to hardtail, never ridden short travel trail bike, but I don’t see reason to have one since hardtail is actually for that and long travel bike for downhill. Hope that helps
Hi Hardtail Party!
Thanks for the great reviews and tips on the channel!👍
Have you ever thought about reviewing a Whyte 905? I got this for about one year now and think you might would love it.
Greetings from Germany, stay healthy and partying! ✌
I was considering this. But in the end i bought a nukeproof scout frame and custom-built it. They look very similar.
I think the reach is even shorter on the scout. I hope to get one in for review soon. If I love it, it'll be a great deal. I wish it could run plus tires though
The scout has a 5mm longer reach in medium and the wheelbase is 10mm shorter at 1164mm. The scout can fit 2.8 easy with plenty of clearance. I am running 2.8 on mine. I think they commencal feels less slack is because of the 160mm fork. Just at sag point it probably steepens the bike too much. The scout gets 65 hta with a 140mm fork.
@@s14tat good to know you can fit 2.8s on the Nukeproof. I'm glad the reach is 5mm longer than this, but I still think both should be even longer, but that's just my opinion. I'm glad to hear you're loving your scout. I hope to get one in for review soon, but it's not looking good.
@@hardtailparty if I lived near you I would totally lent it to you and tell you to go nuts
@@hardtailparty i cannot properly test it because of lockdown. It is suposed to be quite compliant. It was just 400 € for the frame(headset included) , it was super easy to build and the quality of the frame is good. You will propably like it more than the commencal. Blake from GMBN rode it at the megavalance so it must be pretty capable.
Steve...great reviews! After a 20 year hiatus (moving from Phoenix to FL), I'm getting back into mountain biking. My last bike was a Serotta Colorado ATX 26". Looking to move into the present with a new bike! Considering a Trek Roscoe 9 or Commencal Meta HT. Seems like either of these is a pretty flexible platform for SE MTB, which is a lot of single tracks and less DH. Your input is appreaciated!
Welcome back. I do my 1:1 bike consultation over on Patreon. I'd be happy to help you over there. patreon.com/hardtailparty
@@hardtailparty Cool thanks!
I love this bike. It's a tank! Gonna install a 200mm dropper soon...
I use my wifes Meta HT as a dirt jumper with some nice MTB traits like a dropper and slightly bigger wheels. Seems super fun for that, but the harsh rear end isn't for everyone and I certainly wouldn't bring it to something as rocky as where you went. Super fun as a do it all lets jump and rail corners fun bike.
Agreed.
Hey great review! Too bad it didn't work better for you! I've been riding my 2020 Meta ht for about 5 months now, I live in Colorado, have ridden my Meta all over the southwest and ride very aggressive, absolutely couldn't be more smitten with my Commencal but im coming from from an old skool On One Summer Season so this feels like magic to me. Might catch you in Sedona soon!
I'm stoked to hear you love yours, that's all that matters. When this COVID-19 thing is behind us, hit me up and I'll try to join you for a ride in Sedona.
@@hardtailparty Thanks and be well out there!
I'm not surprised by your findings even though I thought you would like it more for general trail riding. The minute I rode my daughter Meta HT (even if it's not my size), I almost felt like I was on a race bike with slacker HTA (I'm used to long travel FS bike). The bike is stiff and it accelerate so quickly (setup as a 29er also). But jumping on our small wooden sender or hopping onto curbs I felt that harshness in the rear-end. My son's Middlechild felt a lot smoother and more playful... Still wish I could try an XL on some buffed trail with berms and small jumps. I think for a do-it-all bike for my daughter it will do ok for the price... I'm curious if you will get the chance to test an aluminum Middlechild. Rocky-Mountain Growler also comes to mind for a budget trail hardtail with good geo...
I feel like the steel middle child is a far better bike in every way, except for weight. The steel mc is still a pretty stiff bike, but it's not harsh like this. I'm excited to test the aluminum one soon.
I hope to get a growler too, though I've heard it's extremely stiff like this commencal. We'll see.
Good review. I had the same experience with the Meta HT. I think I described the ride as (based on my trails) stiff enough to knock out your fillings. But I have a good amount of chunky rocks that I ride. I did not try er out on any flow trails. I dropped it from my list of hardtails to consider based on my ridding and trails. Which is really too bad, for the price is a heck of a deal the way its spec'ed
Great review my man! well put.
What do we have to do to get hardtail party to revisit this bike. I have a 2021 and it mobs. Feel like this bike didn't get a fair shake.
What wasn't fair about it? If commencal wants to send one in for review, they're welcome to. See other comments below from people who also felt it was too stiff.
@@hardtailparty I feel like this bike comes alive when you ride it hard and put weight into the rear triangle. It takes a beating and the 2.8's start to make sense. I love your reviews and wanted to see you take it down that last stretch homie.
New here, love your vids. First I want to say that it's depressing to hear that commencal doesn't ride that good and it is harsh in the trail, since I have been looking forward to this bike really bad, I have a lower end specialized Rockhoper 3x8 Turney and mechanical brakes, so upgrading to a Meta HT It would be blast for me. In my country there are quite few options for HT with a aggressive geometry, commencal is one of them; There are also trek, specialized and Rocky mountain (friends tell me that frames don't last long).
Another thing that surprises me is that you call this bike "Cheap" in my country the price is $2000 USD (Meta Essential), but I understand this because of the custom taxes, bomer.
$2000 is pretty cheap for the parts that it comes with. Most other bikes with the same parts cost $2400.
There are a lot of great hardtails out there. See my other reviews to see what might suit you best.
@@hardtailparty Which hardtails would you recommend over the commencal at that $2000 ish pricepoint?
Grate review im tossing up between this and the San Quentin at the moment but still looking at others
What did you descide?
@@estebanfpv2984 still want the commencal
@hardtail party I had a 2021 Meta HT AM 27.5 I rode on local trails with a 170mm bomber z1. I wanted a full sus so I built a status 160 ( with that same z1 170 fork ) then was feeling another hard tail or short travel full sus. I'm really between this, an Orbea Laufey H-LTD or YT Izzo core 2. I'm in New England and local trails are rocky and rooty with lots of punch climbs. there are not a ton of ride reviews on the Laufey seems to be a great spec'd bike.
See my ride review on the laufey. Don't let great spec for the price override good ride feel or geo
I love my 2021 Commencal Meta HT AM, revised frame and awesome build.
You should review the newer frame
Still too stiff :-(
I got mine and it feels so stiff coming from a big al
Love to see a comparison to the bike I bought instead of the Commencal, a Whyte 905. Great vid, thanks for all your reviews.
I've been trying to get one for review. No luck yet.
@@hardtailparty I am pulling for you! I know its hard to get the UK brands over here. Good luck.
I was honestly thinking about purchasing this bike. But now kinda second guessing myself. I'm just getting back into the sport and I honestly ride a little bit of everything. I need a bike tht can handle rough tech and flow trails. What do you recommend?
See my other hardtail reviews. I save custom bike recommendations for my paying patrons.
Thanks for the review Steve. This is the first bike I’ve ridden that you’ve reviewed so it’s nice to have a frame of reference now to compare to some of the other hardtail options out there. I’ve got a 2020 Meta HT AM Race 29 that I’ve only gotten a couple rides in so far but overall would agree with your review. I’m riding an XL in very different terrain and I have found the ride to be very harsh in some situations. My experience with hardtails is limited so I’d been wondering if that’s how they all rode, good to know that’s not the case. It’s definitely still a fun bike on the right trails but has it’s limitations.
Glad it helps. It's the harshest hardtail ice ridden. Most other decent hardtails will be a lot less harsh. They're still hardtails, and you won't confuse them with a full squish, but most hardtails absorb at least some of the trail. This one didn't.
I don't know how much the ride changes because of this, but the stem on that bike doesn't look like the 40mm that comes with the build and he (your friend) is also running it pretty low.
Correct, we built this up from a frame, so none of the parts are stock. I believe it's around a 35mm stem, so not far off of the stock spec.
Would you recommend this bike. They have a Black Friday deal for 2250 for the race 2022 version. The big deal is I found out I can go check out the. Santa Cruz chameleon, trek roscoe, and the meta all in person all with in an hour and a half from me no big deal at all.
thank you for this review!! considering one of these
You think SC Chameleon would be better fun on gradual trails?
Definitely. See my review of the chameleon. As long as your trails aren't too steep or rowdy, it will be a good choice. Overpriced, but a good choice.
hardtail party is there other hardtails with sliding dropouts? Would like to run single speed sometimes.
I agree with what you said about the steering being slow, did they make the mistake of having a 51 offset fork? Also I don’t understand how the head angle can be 65 on the models that come with 150 / 160 etc forks.
About a split second before before you say this is "stiff" I could hear the CL-angg! Reminds me of my old Specialized Rockhopper. It would just jump forward when I put the power down, I was better at that then, but it made me pay for it on the rough stuff. Looks like a nice bike for the younger crowd with younger joints who charge hard and don't know any better. Was I there once?
Spot on. You can hear the stiffness of the frame in this whole video.
@@hardtailparty I appreciate your straightforward honesty. Too many reviewers tend to gloss over a frames ride quality, mentioning only efficiency of power transfer perhaps.
Love my norco torrent with 3” 27.5 is a dream!!also new subscriber.long live hardtails!!!!🤟🏻🤟🏻🤟🏻
You've come to the right place! Welcome to the party.
I think you're right about composite pedals deadening vibrations a bit more I am not a very rich man but I like to try out different pedals all the time value expensive it don't matter and I've noticed on all the machine aluminum ones that I've tried they're very harsh but I tried the one up composite and the race face chesters etc on my banshee paradox and it feels sweet noticeably less vibration going through my feet
Have you ever ridden some early "party hardtails" like a first generation Chameleon or an Eastern Woods Research OWB (Original Woods Bike)? I owned both back in the day. I had one of each for awhile, but set up as DS bikes with a 1x9 and a MRP DS chain guide, although for a short time I had the Chameleon set up as my XC race bike with 3x8 XTR parts. I did one race in 1998 on the Chameleon and while it definitely put the power down when pedaling, it also beat the crap out of me on rough descents.
Yes, I used to had an azonic ds-1 in 1998. I rode a chameleon in 2000.
Nice that you mentioned about the seat tube. You're not going to want a GG Pedalhead. I'm 5'6" with 30.6" inseam and I can only run 125mm PNW post with the OneUp seat rails to lower the saddle by 6mm. This is on size small (or S1) by the way. My Marin SQ2 2019 had 150 PNW, size Medium.
Lame the pedalhead has such a high seat tibe. Thanks for the info
I'm actually looking into a pedal head to replace a trek Roscoe that similar to this review, I find just way too stiff. I'm 5'9 with longish legs (not sure of the actual measurement but my pants are 32 length so probably just shy of that) and looking at a small. It's an older one on pink bike so I'm still looking for numbers to see how sizing would be for me. How do you feel about the gg in terms of compliance and ride feel?
I really don't think a small is right for your size, but that's just me. I recommend trying before you buy. I know it's hard, but it will pay off in the end.
@@hardtailparty thank you for the input. That was my feeling just based on the fact that if I'm the smallest size, there are a LOT of people it wouldn't fit. The reach seems similar to what I'm used to but I'm learning from your channel everything else to pay attention to as opposed to just seat tube height or any other single number. I'd really like to ride one but isn't a possibility atm.
@@Slinkylinky179 , You should be in size Medium or S2 but expect to run only 100mm of dropper due to short max insertion seat tube on these frames. Even guys that are 6' can only run 150mm dropper post. There is a thread about that if you Google it.
As for the frame, very compliant and that's the first thing you will notice.
Hi Steve!
Last year I bought the Vitus Sentier VRX 2019 hardtail, do you have any thoughts on that bike, or have you ridden any from that company and can compare it to others?
As a mailorder-only bike through CRC I could not ride it before ordering, but as the reviews had been good I had went for it and haven't regretted it yet, having a blast on it!
I've been trying to get a sentier for review, but no luck. I'll keep trying. A lot of UK companies aren't willing to send a frame to the us for a review, and I don't blame them. But that's a bike I've really been wanting to try.
@@hardtailparty Dang, would really have liked to hear your take on that one! But let's hope for the best, I'll keep my fingers crossed! :) Unfortunately I am in Germany, otherwise I would have gladly sent mine over for a week or two if I was state side... As I already mentioned yesterday - keep it up, really enjoying your content! :D
@@DonnieX6 I have been looking at the 2020 sentier 27vr, how do you like yours? what trails do you find yourself riding the most?
Hi @@cove6433! So far I like mine a lot, but I can't really tell you how it would compare to other bikes unfortunately. I also have the 27.5 version, and with the springy 2.6" tires it feels nice to ride and also quite nimble I would say. Most of the time I was in the pre-alps on forest single-tracks and some rocky and gravely sections. I think the value is also alright for that price.
Since he didn't like the commencal he propably won't like the vitus which on paper at least is even more oldschool than this
looking at a ribble 725 or stanton switchback. Will be riding in British forests and mountains. need an all-round fun hardtail frame. any recomendations?
I do my bike consultation through patreon. I'd be happy to help your over there.
@@hardtailparty Thanks bro, think I'm going to wait for Ragley stock but im not sure. I will be hitting you up sometime this year hopefully.
Love to see you review the Ribble HT 725, that's also on my radar.
So glad I found your channel.
I have so many questions to ask tbh. About forks, headtube angles, best frame for my weight and ride style etc.
Sounds like more of a dirt jump bike than anything. I may just take a pass on that one. Trails around here are super rooted out and full of switchbacks. I need something that rails corners but is still compliant. I wander how the nukeproof scout measures up?
Yes it’s called a FS bike
I'm going to have to agree with Dean on this one. If you want a hardtail that's super compliant, look at the banshee paradox v3 I reviewed. That or a ti RSD middle child.
@@deanemberley2333 ahhh. Full sus is for folks that like their kidneys. I actually ride a canyon lux but I miss having a ht around for certain rides and a to ave as a spare.
For us that have this bike (and are kind of stuck with it), what can we do to make it more rideable? I know Ben Yorke is running 2.6 tyres and a Fox 36 up front, and The Shredist changed this tyres to 2.5 front and 2.4 back.
Great question. There's really not a whole lot you can do to alter the way a frame feels. However, here are a few tips to making it sting a little less:
Is the stiffness bothering you? If not, no need to modify anything and you're golden. If so, I would try cushcore and 2.8 tires on 40i rims. I'd make sure it was a nice soft aluminum wheelset too. I'd stay away from carbon and I'd stay away from i9's wheelsets (their hubs are fine though). You could also run the ZIPP 3ZERO Moto wheels, but those cost more than the whole bike. You can run lower tire pressure and try composite pedals. Those are the only things I can think of to lessen the harshness of the frame.
@@hardtailparty I've ridden this for almost a year, and yes it does seem to be difficult to get the rear tyre up and over things. But I was a bit sad when you didn't test the bike on the descent, since this bike is classified as an 'enduro hard tail' and (for me at least) it feels very good when pointed downwards. Will try the cushcore, have been meaning to try those out anyways...do I need cushcore on the front, or will installing cushcore on the back wheel only be enough?
Ben Yorke also is running a 2020 frame and has Cush core in both tires. Also the fox 36 170mm is a big improvement from the Rockshox Yari. This is one mans review so don't let it be end all be all for you. Meta ht am is a great bike and just not his cup of tea which is fine. You can upgrade the yard with the 2.1 charger which essentially turns it into the lyrik. You can also up the travel to 170 if you'd like.
Did you get an explination to why the back weel don't want to lift? I have had that exact feeling on NS Eccentric frame. ( Alu) in 27.5 with the very same geo.
Im 5'6 too. Can't decide between the small or Medium frame.
What did you go with? I'm same height
@@thetoyota86perspective54 small
Very interesting review, unfortunately we are not getting some of the bikes you review in EU. In the cheap way there is the Rockrider AM 100 HT from Decathlon. Surprisingly, geometry seems decent in size L, 450mm reach, 66 angle, long chainstay, decent specs ans for 1000€. Seem to good to be true. But as you mention, frame quality... unknown.
O that is a nice frame. I am a salesman of those Rockrider bikes, and you'd think for such a price the frame must be super stiff and uncomfortable of vague. However every time I demo a Rockrider I am very surprised! The frames are great. Really they give a sublime ride. And a lifetime warranty on the frames too!
@@simonarends7802 Thanks for the responce! I am considering getting this or either second hand Nukeproof Scout, when this COVID maddnes finishes. I agree that Lifetime warranty is very convenient, cause recently I blow up my Orbea Alma frame.
My thoughts is try a longer stem until back end starts to lift up on front end wheelies
That will definitely help, at the cost of steering feel. I can do up to about a 60mm stem before it feels too weird.
Great review!
Just now really getting into your videos, and glad you did this one. I'm a full-susser, but really want to try a modern HT, and the Meta was high on my list, but being that Tucson isn't too different from Sedona, you've got me thinking "nah" on the Meta. Still pretty interested in a Cotic, Ragley, or even the Growler 40.
try a HT you can taste the trail much better also it will sharpen your skills. After all I thought the chunky granolahlike trails are the most fun.
how that does compare to specialised fuse ?
Thanks for the review. I was about to buy one but I don’t think I will anymore
Hopefully this saved you some money and hassle living with a bike that wasn't quite what you had hoped.
I just heard about Commencal Meta HT. I was planning to buy Sentier VR 27 but then I saw this. The Commencal is $200 cheaper than the Sentier which is nice. That's a lot of savings for me. However, is the Commencal a fun to rid mtb than Sentier 27? It will be my first hardtail. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
It is like you love it or you hate it but i don‘t think there’s an in between and i think thats the problem with it i love mine but hearing this review let me think about other frames and how they could bring me even more joy and i might even try another frame or two just to see how differnt they are :)
I think its a greate review becaus it describes the bike how it is 👍
If you love it, that's all that matters. That said, having ridden many modern hardtails, there are better bikes out there. Whether it's worth searching them out and swapping is up to you.
Thanks for the review! I was looking at the Commencal (along with the Nukeproof Scout) before I decided on my Whyte 905. The Whyte just seemed to have the more appealing geometry to me. I bet the Meta HT would still be fun for lots of the trails I ride, but glad I went with the Whyte.
Maybe go through the component setup of this bike, including fork sag. Could be interesting.
Seems this bike has a very short stem and is highly overforked (3:35) If this is true I understand if the ride feels unbalanced
I usually do that, but this was a loaner from a friend and I didn't have it for long. The stiff feeling will remain, but handling could be improved with some component changes.
@@hardtailparty maybe you could redo the test with the new frame in a standard setup? Just a suggestion. I hear people discussing this video from time to time.
And thanks for a great channel. I enjoy your videos
Very informative review. Got a question, though: I'm about to purchase my first hardtail (my online searches led me to this video). Would you recommend this as a first hardtail (first MTB, period)? If not, what are your top recommendations as a first hardtail/MTB? The "fun factor" you mentioned about this bike makes this an enticing proposition. But I'd still like to know your thoughts on this. Thanks in advance.
virus sentier, rsd middle child aluminium, nukeproof scout, specialized fuse, calibre line 29, ragley marley
I was consider buy a meta ht as a new bike last year, but I don't like too high seat tube and despite good fork quite low spec components on factory build. I'm looking forward for your Orbea laufey review. I woud like to buy new ride and I can't decide between Orbea Laufley H-Ltd 2020 and Nukeproof Scout 290 expert 2020. Also after your review consider to make a build with Bashee paradox frame. What would you recomend?
It depends on where you ride, what you like on a bike, and a few other factors. I offer custom bike recommendations for my paying patrons. I haven't ridden the Nukeproof, but the reach looks really short.
@@hardtailparty Most of trails in my country are in forest. So not so hard and rocky like on your video. Gnar surface I ride is I gues around 30%. Do you have any advice how to mesure myself for good astimate appropriet reach for a frame? I'm 6 ft and inner 33,85 inch. I found good purchace for steel hardtail, but reach 510 is kind a crazy. It's frame Pipedream moxie.
How different is this to a 2021 Rockhopper. I know it's much more aggressive, but is it so drastic that even a beginner/intermediate rider would notice? I'm thinking of what my next bike is going to be and it's either an aggressive HT (HT AM/Marin San Quentin/Fuse) or a basic full sus trail bike.
Yes, it's that different
good review, it's nice to see honest reviews were the pros and cons of the product are clear and compared with other bikes.
but i have a doubt, could be possible that the vague feeling of the front have something to do with fork offset? i have read some comments about it affecting the ride feeling and companies tend to use different offsets on their forks (RS even offer same fork with different offsets)
i have ridden just two forks on different bikes so i can't tell
I think that's part of what was bothering me with the steering. I think this bike would do better with a 41-44mm offset.
Can you please review Ragley mmmbop as it looks like your kind of hardtail
I'd really like to, but ragley isn't able to send one to me.
I have one you could review if you are ever in central Texas, only thing is its a large frame.
@@hunterg4728 thanks for the offer. Sadly it's too large for me.
Hunter G do you like it ?
@@hughsnyder891 I love it, very confidences inspiring on the steep stuff. I ride in a very rocky environment and I don't think it rides that rough, but i haven't ridden any other hardtails in along time to compare it to, so maybe I'm just use to it. Thats one reason why i would like Steve to review one, just to let me know what I'm working with.
420 reach on a M does seem small. Their large is 445 which is the same as my medium 2021 fathom.
yeah. i am 176cm and thinking about if M is too small ????
@@jonika1611 if you like a 445 reach I’d go large.
Found the 2021 harsh on the rear also
Thanks for the update! I'm seriously looking at a 2021 right now and this detailed video review has really made me second guess it.
You may have to try my 2021 Meta HT am, I have the size large which has the 445 reach and the lower seat tube. Better yet I'm only 3.5 hours from Sedona!
Wow, that's a super short reach for a large. Most modern medium bikes are 450-465 reach these days.
Would you recommend that bike over the
Trek Roscoe, specialized fuse, or giant fathom
Where is this place? It looks amazing, I wish I could live somewhere like that! where I live in the south west of France it rains most of the winter and there are no such things as trails
It's Sedona AZ.
Great review, I had 2016 version and interesting hearing about how harsh you say it is. I got to the point where would only ride it if riding fast smooth trails. So fun on big burms and pump tracks but as soon as got rough got to point would just take full suspension as more fun. I thought all hard tails were like that intersting to know they not.
A good hardtail is nothing like that. However, good hardtails are hard to find. It's pretty cool to ride a great hardtail.
@@hardtailparty Great watching your reviews and seeing how different the frames feel in different conditions.
Have you considered a review of On-One’s Hello Dave? 62 HTA and 77 STA!! It sounds and looks extreme but it would be really fun just to try it out and explore the limits of modern geo.
That sounds amazing. I'd love to try one.
Do one on the Marin San Quentin and the Ragley Marley
Looking into the 2021 Meta HT AM or the CroMo Middle Child. I see you have reviewed both. Considering the 2021 changes on the meta compared to the 19', you reviewed, which would you recommend of the two? Primary trails are single track flow with jumps, roots and SOME larger tech. I'm in the North East.
Nice review. Out of interest, have you ridden a Nukeproof Scout 275 for comparison? I've just sold my XC carbon hardtail as I've got a new-ish 29er XC dually (Scott Spark RC). The 29er is a mileage killer out in the open. However I miss my simple hardtail and want something to just have fun on, on the trails. The Scout seems to have a little more reach, but with lower stack and about the lowest BB height, compared to the Meta.
If this is not a great hardtail which hardtail is a great hardtail and not so harsh ?
See the rest of my reviews.
Awesome review ! , Im 172cm and Commencal is recommending size M which us only 420mm reach ! Which I think is a little to short , size L has 445mm reach sounds a little more reasonable , Im just concerned 445mm will be too Long of a reach
I would really appreciate your advice on this :)
I offer that as part of my Patreon consultation service. I'd be happy to help you over there.
I ride the commecal meta ht am with 29“ wheels 2.4rear and 2.5 front tyre and a 150mm lyrik an it rides fine on enduro race tracks and bike parks but i agree with him in the stiff frame but a good tip is ride with clipless pedals and it is a beast but it is rough
And it is a monster the bigger the better and speed is your friend it is more a enduro then a trailbike
Great review man! I like the honestly and tell it like it is. Would you recommend this bike for someone who rides mostly trails in the Santa Cruz area that wants something playful and poppy? If not what hardtail would you recommend? Loving the channel! Keep it up.
This would fit that bill, with the caveat that it's going to be stiff. I still haven't figured out what makes a bike "poppy", but some bikes like to get airborne more than others. There are a handful of bikes I'd recommend for that area, including the timberjack, chameleon, rsd middle child, and banshee paradox.
Do you think it's because that frame is just too overbuilt for durability? It seems like the design is nice.
No clue. I think they we're aiming for a good peicepoint and they didn't want to warranty a bunch of frames. It's really tough to design a soft aluminum frame.
hardtail party I’d love for you to review the Growler Bikes American Pale Ale frame.
You’ve made me take a hard look at an aluminum hardtail for my next build. I only weigh 160# with my gear and don’t want a overbuilt heavy and overly stiff frame.
Interesting bike. I'd be interested in reviewing one.
I own this bike and he is spot on
Thanks Chris. I'm afraid a lot of owners will view this and thumbs down the video or be mad. My intention is to explain in words how a bike rides. I've got no skin in the game. If it rides harsh, I'm going to say it. If it's a rip-off, I'm going to say it. The whole purpose of reviews is to explain what it's like, not to help people justify a blind purchase.
@@hardtailparty As a owner I found it very helpful, because this was a cheap frame I tried it as my first HT and thought it was to stiff. I haven't ridden other HT so I wasn't so sure, but you help confirm my suspicion. Your other video about how frames are made and what they are made of helped as well. Hopefully other owners with little HT experience will look at it that way as well
@@CWVIEWmc thabks for not being bugged and not taking it personally that I didn't love this frame. There are some lovely hardtails out there that don't best you up. I hope you get a chance to ride one someday, as it's a conpletely different experience.
@@hardtailparty Thanks for making the video man!!
Would you still recommend this bike to a beginner? I was close to ordering the 2021 model, then went to look at reviews. Im in georgia, and I don't think our trails get quite as gnarly as these are.
Lost it after started mentioning the rear of the bike. This one doesn't look good for me. I'm still considering trying a hardtail again, since I miss it a lot. That Middlechild has my vote after watching your videos with that bike.
Maby look at UK bikes? Stanton? Steeeel...
Great review. Love the channel. Im wondering if its not so difficult for you to make a review on the Canyon Grand Canyon 4.9 hardtail. I would appretiate your thoughts about it. Thanks ahead.
That's a bit too xc for my terrain here. Looks like a decent value for the price, if the geo is right for your terrain.
Hi, could you tell me how behaves the meta ht on xc sections ?
Hi man! I’m new to the hardtail world or bike world in general. Have a budget of 1500$ and have found this bike for sale and the Orbea H10 with in my price point, i have watch your review’s of them now and can’t decide which one i should go for. I want a bike i can play alittle with but i will also use it for daily ride to work and back and that is about 20km one way (not sure what it’s in mile’s).
Have been dreaming about the H10 but remember u said it’s alittle harder to play with so what would you recommend?
Thanks! And thanks for your video reviews, love the info i’m getting since i’m a newbie!
Nice to meet you, thanks for watching. I have a consultation service where I help make recommendations for people. It's a monthly fee, but I'd be happy to help you over there. Subscribestar.com/hardtailparty
I can't tell if this review has convinced me to step away from that bike, or has convinced me to buy it! Haha. The things it scored high on are the reasons I want to own it... fun, playful, good with jumps and flow. Good breakdown, this is the first person I've heard not loving the bike overall and I think the setting has a lot to do with it as well as riding preferences obviously.
In my opinion, there are plenty of bike that are better at fun, playful, good with jumps, and flow. I'd take the Santa Cruz Chameleon over this bike for all those things. My RSD Middle Child is also far more fun, playful, good with jumps and flow, etc. than this, but can also do really well on most trails.
I also think one of the reasons i don't love the bike overall is because I've ridden a lot of hardtails. Most people reviewing this haven't ridden more than one or two decent modern hardtails, so they don't have much to compare it to.
Great review. One of the things I have noticed since finding your channel is how often in your reviews that you praise your Banshee Paradox V3. I am so glad I ordered one and cant wait to build mine up. I hope they took your advice about the water bottle mounts and the quality control issues as I had to pre order mine through Dirt Merchant and they are awaiting the current batch to get in. Absolutly Love your channel and I have learned a few things along the way. Keep up the Great content.
This bike is sick one of my favorites that I've owned and where is that pump track?
Yeah man that had to be severe , I was blown away . But what is the point if ur not having fun ? Good call
I appreciate the Commencal ht being stiff as I am quite a heavy rider. But really, can a HT really absorb bumps? I mean is there a big difference between other frames brands? I know they can flex from side to side but on vertical?
Yes, there's a big difference. About the same difference as running 30psi vs 25psi. That said, bigger riders often enjoy stiffer frames, as frames move differently under different weight riders.
I'm deciding between this one or Ghost Roket 5,7 AL, what do you think?