*A few points of clarification:* 1) "Modern" technique could also be called "proper" riding technique, regardless of your bike's geo. 2) I recommend a "modern" technique on all bikes, not just "modern" bikes. 3) "Modern" technique is REQUIRED to ride modern bikes in control. You can't ride a modern bike well with old-school technique. 4) "Old school" technique is possible on old school geo, but modern technique on an old-school geo is even better. 5) Not all "new" bikes are "modern" 6) "Modern" bikes aren't best for everyone or every trail (but modern technique is). 7) What's a "modern" bike by my definition? I'm classifying "modern" hardtails as bikes with a 65* hta or slacker, and reaches longer than 440mm for a size med, or 470 for a size large. 8) Geometry charts only tell part of the story. I've found a few bikes that look perfect on paper, but they don't ride right at all. Nothing beats a test-ride.
Steve, this was a very unique subject matter and it drove a point very well for me. I must learn a modern style of riding because i am old school. I have NOT SEEN anyone else explain differences as clearly as you just did... well done. I HOPE TO SEE MANY MORE VIDEOS LIKE THIS. Thanks!!!!
@@gastonuzc Thanks Gaston. I'll keep trying to highlight the differences. There are a lot of online coaches who explain these differences extremely well, but most people don't know about online MTB coaching. I'll do my best to keep creating similar content.
of the 30-40 bike videos i have watched this year, this one BY FAR has given me the most to think about. i almost feel like this should be on a loop in bike stores
Thanks Jeff, that means a lot. It was a challenge trying to figure out how to explain/demonstrate it, but I'm proud of how it turned out. A lot of people, especially hardtail riders, have an old school riding style and I wanted to be able to distinguish when doing reviews.
@@hardtailparty This video was amazing. Im getting my first modern geo full suspension bike soon and im glad I saw this to put me in the right mindset. Otherwise it would have been at least a month of issues before I hopefully figured out the riding position.
@@hardtailparty I have a specialized hardrock 2012, I assume it's a traditional geo, cause of it's quite a steep headtube. I'm quite short though but pick up a size up model making the reach feels actually long but I'm used to it and having fun with it. Now I'm thinking of buying a more modern bike, I want to change my style first. Mine, I think it's kinda in between but more towards old style, but not super to the back. Can I do more new style with my hardrock? Sometimes my body just bring the weight back because the back is jumping on the rocky descent section. Should I wait till I got a new bike? Or am I just being to sceptical?
I'm 45, I started riding again after a nearly decade long trail running break, beacause of my little boy who just started it, he is 4. Yesterday I crashed big time with my new, modern geo hardtail. Now I understand why. Thank you. The oldschool style looks better though. I'm new to this channel, but I love your content man! Rediscovering this world is such a great experience.
When i started riding, my friends told me to put my butt over the back wheel when descending. A few years later i realized how much this was holding me back. No chance to get around a corner in the steeps if your arms are fully stretched out. I actually learned about modern technique from watching downhill worldcup races. I always try to push the front wheel in to the ground as much as possible now and look for little natural features like roots or rocks in the apex of the corner that i can slam the front tire into so i dont slip. Think of it like a mini berm. When i go riding with friends who are new to the sport the most important advice i give them is to always hover over the bars with an angle in the elbows and knees and drop the heels. After that they usually ride pretty gnarly stuff on their first ride without problems and love it!
I'm an old... old school rider and notice my bike and I don't perform well when I get lazy and stop attacking the trail and let my body position go back to the old school ways. Thanks for explaining it in a very relatable way.
You're spot on. Fatigue makes us want to relax, and modern bikes don't do so well when we're in a relaxed stance. O notice that a lot on long days. Thanks for bringing this up, it's super important.
@@hardtailparty This detail clicked for me as well, all my recent crashes have been when I have been going to a relaxed ride and not pushing it (not in an attack position)
@@danielmcgowan9534I mean.... that's what I remember about putting too much weight on the bar with a 120mm stem and a 72 deg. head angle. Lotsa endos.
I've been riding old school hardtails for quite some time and just recently got an awesome modern FS All-Mountain from my awesome wife. I was super confused as to how this ultra modern bike felt a lot worse riding it than an old "outdated" hardtail, but watching this video now it REALLY clicks! this makes a TON of sense! thank you so much for explaining this. I will start trying to change my ride style to fit the new bike geometry and get more fun out of it! Cheers from Sweden!
Definitely an in-betweener. Have had my "modern" bike for about 7 months now, and keep reminding myself that it's safe (and faster/smoother) to lean forward on the descents.
If you begin to feel unstable on descents the modern style is to get low. Drop your chest towards the bars, lower center of gravity = more stable. Getting low does reduce your range of movement however, that's where the skill is involved in riding, constantly changing position based on the trail. happy spinning
This style works your shoulders and triceps. Have a killer Scott Spark RC that I wasn’t in love with after 5-6 rides. Then I discovered a few videos like this…wow what a difference. I felt in the pocket as a drummer would say, locked in with my bike the other day. Bike felt plush and blasted through stuff much faster than with old school style. Great video.
Awesome vid! I’m in my mid 50s and have been riding Mtn bikes since the earl 80s. Racing bmx before that. I really appreciate you spelling out these differences. And creating awesome video demonstrations. I’ve found myself weighting the front of my older full suspension bike more and more. And now look forward to trying that on a modern hard tail. Great work!
This is spot on. Once I bought a “New geo” bike I did not think to change my technique at all and was washing out constantly. It took a couple of years to figure out why that was, I wish I would have watched some proper tutorials on how to corner by weighting the front wheel. I’m a ton more dialed now but I feel like is the longest journey to master. It’s fun making incremental improvements though! Great Vid, keep it Dialed in!
Adjusting to modern bikes is incredibly hard, especially as someone who now is riding on a modern hardtail and who rode (in the 90s and early 2000s) on fully rigid bikes.
I've always been between a medium and large in most brands and always preferred the large. While I've never had a super slack HTA, I think the longer reach has put me in the middle of the two techniques. The two different descents down that obstacle was eye opening!
I recommend checking reach numbers to determine your size. According to trek, I would be on an XL stache to get the reach measurement I get on a med RSD middle child. So a bike manufacturer's recommendation isn't usually especially helpful.
I started riding in the late 90s and remember a bike mag giving tips on climbing and descending. It said that on the real steep stuff that you might even have to rest your chest on your saddle 😂 We’ll to be fair, it did work back then. But now going from a 72 ht angle to a 65, it’s time to adjust my riding style. Thanks for the tips!
Ha! You've nailed that for me! I've just got back on a bike for the first time since 2009. I've really struggled with corners, berms, hitting steep rock gardens and not constantly losing my front wheel and it's this. So chuffed I watched this.
I bought my first MTB in 1988 and have had many old school bikes over the years. I recently built a new hardtail (first ever bike build) and it really is a whole different world in riding. I built a 2019 Specialized Fuse with Pike fork, Hope Fortus wheels, GX crankset blah blah blah. I feel much more stable and confident than I ever did on my old GT hardtail. After watching this, I realize I was riding my old GT as if it was modern geo. I always felt on the edge of losing it. Of course my new ride has 2.6" 29ers compared to the old 1.9" 26er. Thats a huge difference alone. Then I have always had riding habits from my old bmx freestyle days. Lots of street riding and half pipe back in the 80's. Thanks for the videos. I just recently discovered your channel. Cheers from Tucson
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Great content. I’m a total old school rider. We need to get to and do some of this comparison with some of my vintage bikes. I think a lot of folks with with full squish modern bikes have forgotten how to ride an old school bike or never learned so when they do try one they just don’t get it.
Thank you for your good advice and reviews. I am 54 and coming back into the sport. A ‘92 Bontrager (with static fork) was my last new bike. I was considering retiring from trail riding because I was getting so beat up. Because of your review of the specialized fuse I picked up a used ‘21. The geo was was an adjustment, felt completely foreign with the pitched forward position and wide bars. But I find myself centered on the bike as opposed to my butt hanging off the back on my old bike. Dropper posts are a game changer, truly a safety feature and unlocking the potential of a sloping top tube. My old Bontrager is collecting dust in the garage. It looks and feels like a clown bike now.
This is one of the most useful MTB videos I have EVER seen! You did an amazing job of distilling the content into something anyone can understand. With that said, I now want an olde Skool bike!!
Old school riding style, just bought a new school bike and was finding it a bit weird until this video opened up a whole new riding technique to master. Totally brilliant, thanks HP👊
Thanks so much for this. After being mostly out of mountain biking for a bunch of years, getting back into it has been a little daunting. Still riding a *steep* (72* head) 10 year old Jamis hardtail, which I thought was great for the technical climbing I like. However, I have never been great on downhill, and have noticed my confidence has been going down the older I get (47). Seeing your explanations and demonstrations of modern geometry has me convinced about going slack and how it would help me a lot towards feeling better on my bike, so I am starting to look into taking the plunge. Modern technology is also showing me the shortcomings of my current bike and how it is probably really holding me back. Thanks, I love your enthusiasm for hardtails and am really glad there is such a following for them still. Cheers.. Alex
Thanks for covering this topic. I thought it was just me struggling with new bike geometry, lol ... I've kinda stumbled into how these bikes like to climb, but I never would have figured out the decents. Thanks very much for the demonstrations!
Thanks! This is very interesting. Went from older geometry to a long, slack and low bike and crashed several times due to the front wheel washing out. “Bad bike”, “Wrong size” and I bought a new one. The same feel with the new one. Now I’m starting to adopt the new riding technique and found an “in between bike” with less extreme geometry (compared to my old ones) and things work out better now. This edit made it even clearer for me !
Just discovered your channel. Can’t decide what I like more... how easy you are to understand when it comes to learning MTB faqs or the fact that your sweatshirts are only $36!!! Great content!
I've learned a ton from you, Steve. Both your videos and the one ride we did together. I took my new krampus out last night and I feel like I'm definitely in between these two riding styles. Getting better for sure.
Thanks for making this video. I am loving the geometry of my Karate Monkey. My first serious mountain bike upgrade in nearly 30 years..... I do feel like I am learning to ride all over again.
The dropper post really changed how I cornered too even on a more traditional bike (69 .05 HTA, 79mm trail , 436mm reach in a size large). Being able to lean the bike in underneath you without the seat in the way really lets you steer with the legs. Still doesn't come quite as naturally to me or the bike but its incredible how many subtle differences that one component makes. I like the nuance in this video though, really interested to try out more modern geo someday.
I'm still running an old bike (26", frame from early 2010s), so the riding style that suits it is more on the trad side. But I'll be taking note of the points made here. Anyway riding is a continuous learning process. Great video as usual!
This is extremely helpful to me. I upgraded to RipmoAF toward the end of the year last year and some things have definitely felt different and not been like I was used to. This really gives me a visual and what to work on for a slacker bike. I will watch a few times. Seeing the comparison side by side is especially helpful
Actually since I have my new giant reign 2019 I felt like the old school way of riding didn't fit the bike and was trying to figure out a better riding position. This video is really helpful even if you know what you are doing because you show both ways and the differences
This video explained so much to me! As a cross between an Old School and an UN-schooled MTB rider, I've recently gone from a 90's-ish, 26" wheel bike to a late 2000's 29-er hardtail. O.M.G. - it's been a love-hate relationship these past few months. I knew it was a lot longer as soon as I went to put it in my SUV. It doesn't fit unless I turn the front wheel perpendicular to the floor. It's also taller with those big wheels. I feel like I've gone from riding a pony to a giraffe. Just handling it on the ground is a challenge. Trying to take a tight turn has been downright scary. Still - I do like how stable it feels going downhill over bumps, and it climbs better than anything I've ever owned. Your video gives me a new insight as to what I should be doing with my body as I try to master this behemoth of a bike. I've been riding a few stairs, and was trying to sit way back, Old School style. Now I'm going to practice what you demonstrated here, and I hope to become more comfortable riding chunky downhill stuff. Thank you!
Excellent video. I've watched this several times already. Thanks for the overview of the change in the on bike position and overall biomechanics with modern mountain bikes on riding style and technic from old school hardtails.
Thanks Andrew, stoked to hear you liked it! More quality content is delivered in the reg, so might be worth the subscribe if this is something that interests you!
This was a really interesting topic. Over the years I found I'm really uncomfortable on any bike with a long reach. My back and neck prefers a more upright riding position. Your video answered why I've kept my "current" bike (late 90s early 2000 frame). I've ridden friends modern my bikes many times and never felt the urge/need to buy a modern geometry bike. My bikes components have been upgraded and tweaked to the point that only the frame is original (it's a hard tail). I've never felt that my older geometry prevented me from keeping up with a group. I can see where a more modern geometry would be huge in a bike park setting with steep downhills and flying off big features. But as I have zero interest in that kind of riding, I prefer natural trails and no lifts or lines. So, at least for now I'll stay ooold school and upgrade when I have to.
Well I'm definitively old school when I see your position going down these stairs I feel dizzy :) But when I see the modern cornering technique it feels like agressive carving on skis, I love it. Very interesting to hear that a Honzo or and Chameleon are not considered modern bikes. I ride a 26" wheels cannondale with a long stem over the front wheel, and the 29" with short stems and slacker head tubes all seem modern to me !
I put a 29er on the front of my 2016 Levo noticeably increasing the slack. Since then I’ve found I naturally ride in your modern forward style. Good Stuff Steve. You have become a go to guy for MTB riding (and reviews).
Aaaah, how did I miss this one? Yes, this is exactly how I felt going from my XTC to my Blue Pig. The "get back behind the back wheel" descending style is 100% me. I just found some more or less deserted trails on the way to work, so I'll be practicing these techniques more as we get more daylight. Thanks Steve!
Thats exactly whts happening to me, i got a Marin San Quentin 2 days a go and the very first trail ride i took it into it just felt super odd... Thank you for the amazing content.
Those bikes feel odd even with modern technique. My advice is to get a set of riser bars for it (at least 40mm rise), that should fix most of the odd feeling. San Quentins have a super low stack and they require you to be more hunched over than ideal. Once you fix the low stack with a riser bar, you can add some modern technique and unlock that bike's potential.
@@hardtailparty thanks for the tips on the San Quentin! I am building one and will adjust my bar plan. 40mm rise sounds odd, but I trust your recommendation.
I'm riding a San Quentin too, and I have the maximum spacers under the stem and my bars are at the same height as my girlfriend's bars with the stem slammed. Maybe I should swap out the stock bars for a higher rise.
This video is so awesome, thank you. I'm graduating from old school to modern riding myself. Last year I went from a 2001 model bike to a 2019 model bike. I'm still learning how to ride the newer bike.
Really interesting. My main issue with long reach bikes is back ache so I prefer slightly shorter reach, pushing the saddle forward, rolling bars back. But having the front contact patch further in front plus a progressive suspension fork really helps attacking steeps rather than backing off.
I think I’m a maybe in between. I’ve learned the hard way that modern geo requires forward position when cornering. On the steep stuff like in Sedona though I still have a tendency to get back over the rear tire otherwise I feel like I’m going to otb. After watching this though I’m going to try to be mindful of that and try to get down and more forward. Thanks for sharing!
Just found your channel, and I have to say it's great. Really useful and informative. You're obviously a very capable rider, but you have a down to earth modesty I find very refreshing.
You can still adopt a lot of these techniques with your dropper up, it's just a lot harder. Check out Nino's technique. That dude can hipost better than I can ride with a dropper.
WOW! I've had a STASH 7 2019 bought it brand new. Been riding since 2002. Noticed right away the difference but could describe it. Just knew it was so much better climbing and descending. Recently I've been focusing on basics trying to improve my downhill, climbing and cornering. I've made great progress, but just this week realized the need to focus on getting my chin/head forward. I couldn't figure out why my front tire seemed be "light". Watched other TH-cam videos and help, but yours nailed it. I now completely understand and see the big difference. I live in Las Cruces NM, and we have some of the same terrain. LOVE my hardtail. The simplicity of setup and the + tires are awesome. THANK YOU for you videos. Praying for you health!
I have a 2019 Santa Cruz chameleon and had thought I might of been using "old school technique (just didn't think about what I was doing) but looked at a video today of me going down a super steep decently long decent 30 - 40 feet straight down, and was surprised to see I had my elbows bent and hunched in a bit on the front
I actually think the new riding style is more neutral, in the bike per se, even though it is more forward relative to the old, behind the rear wheel style. Great video and great side by side comparisons.
I was an old school, early '90's hard tail rider and didn't know squat about technique (strictly self-taught) but recently, I bought a new hard tail and took it to a 2 day core fundamentals clinic and wow! Before: I couldn't handle switchback turns. Now: with proper technique, much easier. Before: I used to wash out on turns. Now: with proper technique, so much more confident and sticking those turns. Before, I could climb ok, but it was so painful. Now: with proper technique, less painful when climbing and I can go longer uphill. Bottom line: the better one's technique, the better your performance will be on the trail and I dare say, the modern geometry lends itself well to these techniques. Awesome video!
Totally agree! I love hearing stories like this. Sometimes those of us who have been riding the longest need the most help from clinics. It's hands down the best money spent on a bike.
Good analysis. I am an older rider but have definitely adapted to the modern bike geometry and love it. I do occasionally mix in some old school techniques maybe just goofing around or a temporary relapse.
Thx for the video. Excellent relevant topic! I been riding for over 20 years but recently have transitioned over to slacker bikes. Wasn't thinking about the techniques so this is definitely a wake-up call. Appreciate your channel. Thumbs up!
You did a very good job explaining this, I think many people will need to experience it, to really appreciate the difference. I washed out my front end the first few rides on my new bike. I actually have found that, for me, the climbing position actually took me a few months to adapt my muscles , where I felt like I was able to put out the same power for the same time. It's a interesting transition the industry is making, but I feel like it's one that is for the better. Now if they could just decide on a hub standard, that wouullddd be greeeeattt..
I have a late 90's Kona Kilauea and I am totally that butt tire rider. Excellent video and tips as I am considering getting a newer hard tail. Thanks the time and effort you put into this video
my man! I think I too am using too much of our 90s technique, that we all mid 30s and up learned. I think I have to dig in more into the downer part of these sections! Stoked to be doing this on my upcoming NS Scout Expert with 29" wheels! Definitely following you, until you stop with these videos some day.
Wow! Seen a lot of videos on the newer body position but I havent really committed yet getting out of that leaned back position. You simply nailed it with your explanation and demonstration. When you showed rolling on a technical stuff even with a slower pace but with confidence. The cornering looks really good too. Will definitely start working on that. Thank you so much.
This makes soooo much sense! Thank you! I generally have a old school technique of riding but since getting my Giant Trance I have found that I don’t need to ride like that. This video just confirms everything I have been feeling with the new bike.
Great video. I still find myself falling into my old riding habits from the early 90's on my Giant Iguana and Marin Rocky Ridge Hardtails. Haha. About 5-6 years ago when I got my first aggressive modern geo Commencal Meta AM Hardtail it took me a long time to figure out what I was doing wrong. I still feel like I am getting use to the more modern geo but I definitely feel way better than back in the 90's.
Great job in educating and demonstration. Have not come across a better explanation with comparative demonstration in any training video. You also gave a great visualization of what I would call the three most critical factors in advanced riding. 1- "end of your rope" with elbows locked leads to OTB and inability to maneuver 2- neutral position allows a deliberate weighting or unweighting of the front end for a balanced control of the bike 3- cornering by leaning the bike with a low CG weighting the BB vs turning the bars. You may not have intended to these specific concepts but this is what I observed. Great job!
Great vid. Just bought my first modern geo bike - a Trek Roscoe. First ride out on the trails, I noticed some strange handling up and down some punchy tech stuff. Moved a little forward in my attach position and it was like magic. My old short wheelbase FS 26’er had me doing funny things.
This has helped me so much. I came from a 2005 Rockhopper, with about a ten year break from riding, to a newer bike. I felt like I was learning all over again, and was confused and frustrated. Explains so much! Thank you.
This is a great video, and I'm saying that as someone who has been cycling and racing/competing since the mid '90s. My last mountain bike was a '99 Santa Cruz Chameleon, and then I rode trials for many years, and then I did road, and recently I got back into mountain biking in Colorado and have a 2021 27.5 Timberjack GX, which I absolutely love right now. It's important to note that the geometry and components play together and evolve together. If you had told me 20 years ago that my mountain bike would have a 66* head tube and a short stem, I'd ask what you were smoking. But, when that comes together with the rest of the geometry changes plus 27.5"x2.8" wheels that substantially impact stability and performance at speed, the whole thing starts to make sense. I'm amazed at the stability at speed caused by rotating wheels that are far heavier than anything I have ever ridden with, even as a trials rider. These modern bikes, when they go fast, the stability is great. We never had that in the '90s unless you increased the head tube angle and had a long stem. The wheels I used to ride on feel flimsy now.
I’m 5’8 and I ride a 2019 Kona Honzo ST and sized up to a size large. I put on a 2 degree angled headset to slacken it out. After watching your video, I want to try the modern technique of riding it. I need to get the confidence to ride it how you explained on the downhills. Elbows bent, knees bent and chin over the handlebars.
That was super helpful! I ride like a modern, but my bike is older so i've been trying to get in that more old school approach, but it just doesn't fit my riding style and it feels so rigid. But, I wasn't sure why I was changing my body positon, it just naturally lead me that way when I started trying to improve my riding. Time for a new bike! haha
Wow! I really needed this and it makes sense. I went from an 2018 trek Marlin (old school) to a 2023 trek roscoe and now it looks I got to relearn my riding style a bit. I already picked up on some techniques but this is gold and explains a lot! I actually sized down on my roscoe and shorten the stem I love how it rides, I guess in the future I could go back with the longer stem for more reach but I think it’s good for now.
I've got a custom Marlin 4 with the modern slacker/longer geo and an older SS Bianchi w/ the older shorter geo. I couldn't quite explain why they felt so different until I came across your video! Awesome explanation!
Thank you, exactly what I needed. I've only always ridden old school. 4 Weeks ago I bought a new mountain bike, and kept complaining my steering is lose ("nervous steering"). I'm definitely going to play around with body position. I might have to move my seat a little forward too. This was perfect advice. Thank you !
Wow. This was a very eye-opening video. Gonna give the modern style a try as I believe to be a bit of an old-school style rider. But I am certainly open to changing my riding style to match my more modern geo bike. Thank you!
This video is particularly interesting to me because I currently switch back and forth between riding a contemporary hard tail and riding a vintage hard tail. When first descending with the contemporary bike, I noticed how much more stable things felt; I felt it could be chalked to the geometry of the bike. Of course, in viewing your video, I've realized that I should be adjusting my riding style much more than I previously had. I might then enjoy my modern bike more.
Very educational! I never really paid attention. Simply ride and crash and randomly figure out what fails . I need to attend a skills clinic . Thankyou for waking me up to these ideas
Your video made me look at my bike in a new way the frame is some what old school 2019 chisel expert but I modified it with slightly more modern geometry and I have noticed performance changes you mentioned in this video and should help me on my next trail rides
Whouuuuuuu!! I knew u were about to show me something that my mind didnt know about! Ive been saving up to pick up a hardtail but im an old school rider. I'm above 40 now but in my head im still that teenager from the 90s who rode down stairs and did all those stunts and climbed uphill better than the average person in india... And then i see YOU climb up that rock face like that and im blown away. And shifting your weight onto the handlebars like that, whoa! I believe i used to try and keep my weight off my bicycle back then to 'protect' it so to speak. But i reckon these new bikes can easily take on heavy weight without breaking. This video was an eye opener for me. Watched those slow-moz several times and suddenly realized that time has changed things. Beautiful engineering! Thank you for making this video for us!
Oh this was so helpful. Just went from a 2013 bike to a 2021. First ride was dream and then it all seem to fall apart as I over analyzed how I was riding it. I can see now it was putting me over the front on purpose and the leaning way back feels wrong on this bike (plus a huge bail on the first ride otb didn't help me embrace the change is riding style). Cheers, so helpful!
Great video Steve! One of the best instructional videos I’ve seen in a while. It’s a great reminder to stay over the front. I notice when I’m riding less aggressively I have a tendency to sit back more and my front wheel starts washing out. Can’t wait for the Banshee review. I’m thinking of building one up but I’d love to get your stamp of approval first 😆
Steve, Bravo! This info is so good. I went from an old school XC full sus to a modern trail bike and this is my exact experience in the corners. I'll have to try your technique with the steep descents. Good stuff.
Jan 2021. Coming off an old skool geo bike, to *first ride of my brand new Norco Fluid HT* with 66 degree head angle and modern geometry. I deliberately followed the advice in this video and was laughing with exhilaration at how well the bike railed the corners and descended chunky stuff. Then... on one very fast berm, I kinda forgot and lapsed into old skool riding technique and didn't weight the front enough. I ended up over the back of the berm in the grass. It was a good lesson to me that my new bike demands a different technique when I'm riding hard. I have recommended this video to many people in mtbr forums and also my friends with new bikes. Its one of the best videos on youtube.
This great video started me on the journey of selling my old school hardtails (Soulcraft and Vassago) and using Steve’s Patreon consultation to get me on two more modern bikes (Spot Rocker and Stanton Sherpa Ti). You can teach an old dog (@57yo) new tricks…just takes time and motivation. I ended up going thru two riding clinics to dial in my modern technique. I am now a much better, faster and more confident rider at 57 than I was at 37. It’s well worth the effort to update your technique.
I just moved from a 2012 Nukeproof Mega to a new Trek Roscoe 9 and it feels like a bit of a runaway train on the steep stuff, so I'm definitely going to try these techniques. Thanks for the video!
*A few points of clarification:*
1) "Modern" technique could also be called "proper" riding technique, regardless of your bike's geo.
2) I recommend a "modern" technique on all bikes, not just "modern" bikes.
3) "Modern" technique is REQUIRED to ride modern bikes in control. You can't ride a modern bike well with old-school technique.
4) "Old school" technique is possible on old school geo, but modern technique on an old-school geo is even better.
5) Not all "new" bikes are "modern"
6) "Modern" bikes aren't best for everyone or every trail (but modern technique is).
7) What's a "modern" bike by my definition? I'm classifying "modern" hardtails as bikes with a 65* hta or slacker, and reaches longer than 440mm for a size med, or 470 for a size large.
8) Geometry charts only tell part of the story. I've found a few bikes that look perfect on paper, but they don't ride right at all. Nothing beats a test-ride.
Great list.
Steve, this was a very unique subject matter and it drove a point very well for me. I must learn a modern style of riding because i am old school. I have NOT SEEN anyone else explain differences as clearly as you just did... well done. I HOPE TO SEE MANY MORE VIDEOS LIKE THIS. Thanks!!!!
@@gastonuzc Thanks Gaston. I'll keep trying to highlight the differences. There are a lot of online coaches who explain these differences extremely well, but most people don't know about online MTB coaching. I'll do my best to keep creating similar content.
What about a Scott Aspect? Btw, love this channel. I am a new mtb rider with a hardtail.
Great list 👍
of the 30-40 bike videos i have watched this year, this one BY FAR has given me the most to think about. i almost feel like this should be on a loop in bike stores
I concur this statement
This video is AWESOME! I've had this idea for a while, you did a great job explaining the differences.
Thanks Jeff, that means a lot. It was a challenge trying to figure out how to explain/demonstrate it, but I'm proud of how it turned out. A lot of people, especially hardtail riders, have an old school riding style and I wanted to be able to distinguish when doing reviews.
Yes great job!
@@hardtailparty This video was amazing. Im getting my first modern geo full suspension bike soon and im glad I saw this to put me in the right mindset. Otherwise it would have been at least a month of issues before I hopefully figured out the riding position.
@@hardtailparty I have a specialized hardrock 2012, I assume it's a traditional geo, cause of it's quite a steep headtube. I'm quite short though but pick up a size up model making the reach feels actually long but I'm used to it and having fun with it.
Now I'm thinking of buying a more modern bike, I want to change my style first. Mine, I think it's kinda in between but more towards old style, but not super to the back.
Can I do more new style with my hardrock? Sometimes my body just bring the weight back because the back is jumping on the rocky descent section. Should I wait till I got a new bike? Or am I just being to sceptical?
@@cesraihandary it's an old school geo. You can add an angleset or just adapt to how it rides.
I'm 45, I started riding again after a nearly decade long trail running break, beacause of my little boy who just started it, he is 4. Yesterday I crashed big time with my new, modern geo hardtail. Now I understand why. Thank you. The oldschool style looks better though. I'm new to this channel, but I love your content man! Rediscovering this world is such a great experience.
Welcome back to the sport. A clinic or coaching session is some of the best money I've ever spent on this sport.
When i started riding, my friends told me to put my butt over the back wheel when descending. A few years later i realized how much this was holding me back. No chance to get around a corner in the steeps if your arms are fully stretched out. I actually learned about modern technique from watching downhill worldcup races. I always try to push the front wheel in to the ground as much as possible now and look for little natural features like roots or rocks in the apex of the corner that i can slam the front tire into so i dont slip. Think of it like a mini berm. When i go riding with friends who are new to the sport the most important advice i give them is to always hover over the bars with an angle in the elbows and knees and drop the heels. After that they usually ride pretty gnarly stuff on their first ride without problems and love it!
This was an excellent read. Thank you.
I'm an old... old school rider and notice my bike and I don't perform well when I get lazy and stop attacking the trail and let my body position go back to the old school ways. Thanks for explaining it in a very relatable way.
You're spot on. Fatigue makes us want to relax, and modern bikes don't do so well when we're in a relaxed stance. O notice that a lot on long days. Thanks for bringing this up, it's super important.
@@hardtailparty just engage your core and stay relaxed in the rest.
@@hardtailparty This detail clicked for me as well, all my recent crashes have been when I have been going to a relaxed ride and not pushing it (not in an attack position)
I'd like to see the same comparison on an "old school" bike. If you use the Modern technique on an Old School bike, do you endo and eat dirt?
@@danielmcgowan9534I mean.... that's what I remember about putting too much weight on the bar with a 120mm stem and a 72 deg. head angle. Lotsa endos.
I've been riding old school hardtails for quite some time and just recently got an awesome modern FS All-Mountain from my awesome wife. I was super confused as to how this ultra modern bike felt a lot worse riding it than an old "outdated" hardtail, but watching this video now it REALLY clicks! this makes a TON of sense! thank you so much for explaining this. I will start trying to change my ride style to fit the new bike geometry and get more fun out of it! Cheers from Sweden!
Thank you for breaking this down. Love the side by side shots. Visually this is so helpful.
Definitely an in-betweener. Have had my "modern" bike for about 7 months now, and keep reminding myself that it's safe (and faster/smoother) to lean forward on the descents.
If you begin to feel unstable on descents the modern style is to get low. Drop your chest towards the bars, lower center of gravity = more stable. Getting low does reduce your range of movement however, that's where the skill is involved in riding, constantly changing position based on the trail. happy spinning
This style works your shoulders and triceps. Have a killer Scott Spark RC that I wasn’t in love with after 5-6 rides. Then I discovered a few videos like this…wow what a difference. I felt in the pocket as a drummer would say, locked in with my bike the other day. Bike felt plush and blasted through stuff much faster than with old school style. Great video.
Awesome vid! I’m in my mid 50s and have been riding Mtn bikes since the earl 80s. Racing bmx before that. I really appreciate you spelling out these differences. And creating awesome video demonstrations. I’ve found myself weighting the front of my older full suspension bike more and more. And now look forward to trying that on a modern hard tail. Great work!
Wow, I love this video. I was riding old-school way with a new-school frame. I gotta try to stop putting my ass waaay baaaack too much. Thanks!
This is spot on. Once I bought a “New geo” bike I did not think to change my technique at all and was washing out constantly. It took a couple of years to figure out why that was, I wish I would have watched some proper tutorials on how to corner by weighting the front wheel. I’m a ton more dialed now but I feel like is the longest journey to master. It’s fun making incremental improvements though! Great Vid, keep it Dialed in!
Adjusting to modern bikes is incredibly hard, especially as someone who now is riding on a modern hardtail and who rode (in the 90s and early 2000s) on fully rigid bikes.
I've always been between a medium and large in most brands and always preferred the large. While I've never had a super slack HTA, I think the longer reach has put me in the middle of the two techniques. The two different descents down that obstacle was eye opening!
I recommend checking reach numbers to determine your size. According to trek, I would be on an XL stache to get the reach measurement I get on a med RSD middle child. So a bike manufacturer's recommendation isn't usually especially helpful.
@@hardtailparty That makes sense. I haven't owned a Stache, but I did own a Farley EX for a little while in an XL and I really enjoyed the feel.
I started riding in the late 90s and remember a bike mag giving tips on climbing and descending. It said that on the real steep stuff that you might even have to rest your chest on your saddle 😂 We’ll to be fair, it did work back then. But now going from a 72 ht angle to a 65, it’s time to adjust my riding style. Thanks for the tips!
Ha! You've nailed that for me! I've just got back on a bike for the first time since 2009. I've really struggled with corners, berms, hitting steep rock gardens and not constantly losing my front wheel and it's this. So chuffed I watched this.
I thought Old School technique meant open-face helmet with a cigarette hanging out of your mouth.
Nah. That's middle-old-school. Old school is a doobie and no helmet.
@@abadatha and spandex. because speed.
That was MX
Ah, the 90s.
Some of the vintage tour de france photos are great. riders drinking beer at rest stops, smoking while riding etc
For a newer rider like myself this video was fantastic. Simple yet effective. Loved the contrast split screen with the different techniques. Thanks!
I bought my first MTB in 1988 and have had many old school bikes over the years. I recently built a new hardtail (first ever bike build) and it really is a whole different world in riding. I built a 2019 Specialized Fuse with Pike fork, Hope Fortus wheels, GX crankset blah blah blah. I feel much more stable and confident than I ever did on my old GT hardtail. After watching this, I realize I was riding my old GT as if it was modern geo. I always felt on the edge of losing it. Of course my new ride has 2.6" 29ers compared to the old 1.9" 26er. Thats a huge difference alone. Then I have always had riding habits from my old bmx freestyle days. Lots of street riding and half pipe back in the 80's.
Thanks for the videos. I just recently discovered your channel. Cheers from Tucson
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Gracias por poner subtitulo en español saludos desde Sinaloa México
@@franciscoiranramosvalenzue5153 De nada. Saludos amigo!
Great content. I’m a total old school rider. We need to get to and do some of this comparison with some of my vintage bikes. I think a lot of folks with with full squish modern bikes have forgotten how to ride an old school bike or never learned so when they do try one they just don’t get it.
Thank you for your good advice and reviews. I am 54 and coming back into the sport. A ‘92 Bontrager (with static fork) was my last new bike. I was considering retiring from trail riding because I was getting so beat up. Because of your review of the specialized fuse I picked up a used ‘21. The geo was was an adjustment, felt completely foreign with the pitched forward position and wide bars. But I find myself centered on the bike as opposed to my butt hanging off the back on my old bike.
Dropper posts are a game changer, truly a safety feature and unlocking the potential of a sloping top tube.
My old Bontrager is collecting dust in the garage. It looks and feels like a clown bike now.
This is one of the most useful MTB videos I have EVER seen! You did an amazing job of distilling the content into something anyone can understand. With that said, I now want an olde Skool bike!!
runNride 👍 Tell me why - I want to be able to follow your reasoning!
Some words of wisdom there. You absolutely nailed how modern bikes need to be ridden.
Old school riding style, just bought a new school bike and was finding it a bit weird until this video opened up a whole new riding technique to master. Totally brilliant, thanks HP👊
Thanks so much for this. After being mostly out of mountain biking for a bunch of years, getting back into it has been a little daunting. Still riding a *steep* (72* head) 10 year old Jamis hardtail, which I thought was great for the technical climbing I like. However, I have never been great on downhill, and have noticed my confidence has been going down the older I get (47). Seeing your explanations and demonstrations of modern geometry has me convinced about going slack and how it would help me a lot towards feeling better on my bike, so I am starting to look into taking the plunge. Modern technology is also showing me the shortcomings of my current bike and how it is probably really holding me back. Thanks, I love your enthusiasm for hardtails and am really glad there is such a following for them still. Cheers.. Alex
Thanks for covering this topic. I thought it was just me struggling with new bike geometry, lol ... I've kinda stumbled into how these bikes like to climb, but I never would have figured out the decents. Thanks very much for the demonstrations!
Thanks! This is very interesting. Went from older geometry to a long, slack and low bike and crashed several times due to the front wheel washing out. “Bad bike”, “Wrong size” and I bought a new one. The same feel with the new one. Now I’m starting to adopt the new riding technique and found an “in between bike” with less extreme geometry (compared to my old ones) and things work out better now. This edit made it even clearer for me !
Just discovered your channel. Can’t decide what I like more... how easy you are to understand when it comes to learning MTB faqs or the fact that your sweatshirts are only $36!!! Great content!
I've learned a ton from you, Steve. Both your videos and the one ride we did together.
I took my new krampus out last night and I feel like I'm definitely in between these two riding styles. Getting better for sure.
Thanks for making this video. I am loving the geometry of my Karate Monkey. My first serious mountain bike upgrade in nearly 30 years..... I do feel like I am learning to ride all over again.
The dropper post really changed how I cornered too even on a more traditional bike (69 .05 HTA, 79mm trail , 436mm reach in a size large). Being able to lean the bike in underneath you without the seat in the way really lets you steer with the legs. Still doesn't come quite as naturally to me or the bike but its incredible how many subtle differences that one component makes. I like the nuance in this video though, really interested to try out more modern geo someday.
Terrific video! You've nailed it, but I believe for more than just hardtails!
I'm still running an old bike (26", frame from early 2010s), so the riding style that suits it is more on the trad side. But I'll be taking note of the points made here. Anyway riding is a continuous learning process. Great video as usual!
This is extremely helpful to me. I upgraded to RipmoAF toward the end of the year last year and some things have definitely felt different and not been like I was used to. This really gives me a visual and what to work on for a slacker bike. I will watch a few times. Seeing the comparison side by side is especially helpful
Actually since I have my new giant reign 2019 I felt like the old school way of riding didn't fit the bike and was trying to figure out a better riding position. This video is really helpful even if you know what you are doing because you show both ways and the differences
This video explained so much to me! As a cross between an Old School and an UN-schooled MTB rider, I've recently gone from a 90's-ish, 26" wheel bike to a late 2000's 29-er hardtail. O.M.G. - it's been a love-hate relationship these past few months. I knew it was a lot longer as soon as I went to put it in my SUV. It doesn't fit unless I turn the front wheel perpendicular to the floor. It's also taller with those big wheels. I feel like I've gone from riding a pony to a giraffe. Just handling it on the ground is a challenge. Trying to take a tight turn has been downright scary. Still - I do like how stable it feels going downhill over bumps, and it climbs better than anything I've ever owned. Your video gives me a new insight as to what I should be doing with my body as I try to master this behemoth of a bike. I've been riding a few stairs, and was trying to sit way back, Old School style. Now I'm going to practice what you demonstrated here, and I hope to become more comfortable riding chunky downhill stuff. Thank you!
Excellent video. I've watched this several times already. Thanks for the overview of the change in the on bike position and overall biomechanics with modern mountain bikes on riding style and technic from old school hardtails.
Thanks Andrew, stoked to hear you liked it! More quality content is delivered in the reg, so might be worth the subscribe if this is something that interests you!
This was a really interesting topic. Over the years I found I'm really uncomfortable on any bike with a long reach. My back and neck prefers a more upright riding position. Your video answered why I've kept my "current" bike (late 90s early 2000 frame). I've ridden friends modern my bikes many times and never felt the urge/need to buy a modern geometry bike. My bikes components have been upgraded and tweaked to the point that only the frame is original (it's a hard tail). I've never felt that my older geometry prevented me from keeping up with a group. I can see where a more modern geometry would be huge in a bike park setting with steep downhills and flying off big features. But as I have zero interest in that kind of riding, I prefer natural trails and no lifts or lines. So, at least for now I'll stay ooold school and upgrade when I have to.
Well I'm definitively old school when I see your position going down these stairs I feel dizzy :) But when I see the modern cornering technique it feels like agressive carving on skis, I love it. Very interesting to hear that a Honzo or and Chameleon are not considered modern bikes. I ride a 26" wheels cannondale with a long stem over the front wheel, and the 29" with short stems and slacker head tubes all seem modern to me !
Helps a lot for a new rider. Thanks Steve.
Helps us older riders learn new tricks too.
I put a 29er on the front of my 2016 Levo noticeably increasing the slack. Since then I’ve found I naturally ride in your modern forward style. Good Stuff Steve. You have become a go to guy for MTB riding (and reviews).
Ha! I was going to agree and over comment with this guy’s post but it was me. 😆
Aaaah, how did I miss this one? Yes, this is exactly how I felt going from my XTC to my Blue Pig. The "get back behind the back wheel" descending style is 100% me.
I just found some more or less deserted trails on the way to work, so I'll be practicing these techniques more as we get more daylight. Thanks Steve!
Wow man! This is one of the best riding videos I've seen on TH-cam. Excellent content!
Thanks so much.
Thats exactly whts happening to me, i got a Marin San Quentin 2 days a go and the very first trail ride i took it into it just felt super odd...
Thank you for the amazing content.
Those bikes feel odd even with modern technique. My advice is to get a set of riser bars for it (at least 40mm rise), that should fix most of the odd feeling. San Quentins have a super low stack and they require you to be more hunched over than ideal. Once you fix the low stack with a riser bar, you can add some modern technique and unlock that bike's potential.
@@hardtailparty thanks for the tips on the San Quentin! I am building one and will adjust my bar plan. 40mm rise sounds odd, but I trust your recommendation.
I'm riding a San Quentin too, and I have the maximum spacers under the stem and my bars are at the same height as my girlfriend's bars with the stem slammed. Maybe I should swap out the stock bars for a higher rise.
@@davidblackman3127 try a 30 Spank Vibracore 800, best one out there, I tried a couple of bars..(hand fatigue also disapears)
This video is so awesome, thank you. I'm graduating from old school to modern riding myself. Last year I went from a 2001 model bike to a 2019 model bike. I'm still learning how to ride the newer bike.
Opened my eyes a lot, my Trek Roscoe 8 feels like it's always plowing in the corners. Will work on my technique.Thanks!
I thought my Roscoe 8 was just a little lazy.
Really interesting. My main issue with long reach bikes is back ache so I prefer slightly shorter reach, pushing the saddle forward, rolling bars back. But having the front contact patch further in front plus a progressive suspension fork really helps attacking steeps rather than backing off.
This video is gold!! Explains allot actually, I ride a Meta V3 and I see what you mean... It's crazy to see the difference. Outstanding 🤘🏾💪🏾🤘🏾
I keep coming back to this video for a refresher. Old habits die hard!
I think I’m a maybe in between. I’ve learned the hard way that modern geo requires forward position when cornering. On the steep stuff like in Sedona though I still have a tendency to get back over the rear tire otherwise I feel like I’m going to otb. After watching this though I’m going to try to be mindful of that and try to get down and more forward. Thanks for sharing!
Just found your channel, and I have to say it's great. Really useful and informative.
You're obviously a very capable rider, but you have a down to earth modesty I find very refreshing.
Thank you for the kind words.
I'm an old school rider (stl refuse to get a dropper post lol) but found your tips very helpful. Love the channel my friend.
You can still adopt a lot of these techniques with your dropper up, it's just a lot harder. Check out Nino's technique. That dude can hipost better than I can ride with a dropper.
I am more old school too, but seriously get a dropper, it's fantastic
Dude don’t be a curmudgeon- get a dropper. It’s the best invention at increasing fun on a mountain bike.
Embrace the dropper - game changer.
I wouldn't know what to do with a dropper...carry on gents. Keep the stoke up!
WOW! I've had a STASH 7 2019 bought it brand new. Been riding since 2002. Noticed right away the difference but could describe it. Just knew it was so much better climbing and descending. Recently I've been focusing on basics trying to improve my downhill, climbing and cornering. I've made great progress, but just this week realized the need to focus on getting my chin/head forward. I couldn't figure out why my front tire seemed be "light". Watched other TH-cam videos and help, but yours nailed it. I now completely understand and see the big difference. I live in Las Cruces NM, and we have some of the same terrain. LOVE my hardtail. The simplicity of setup and the + tires are awesome. THANK YOU for you videos. Praying for you health!
I have a 2019 Santa Cruz chameleon and had thought I might of been using "old school technique (just didn't think about what I was doing) but looked at a video today of me going down a super steep decently long decent 30 - 40 feet straight down, and was surprised to see I had my elbows bent and hunched in a bit on the front
woah!!!! as an old school 80s racer, everything just changed! thanks
We need a video on how you cleared that rock feature. What in the blue hell
I'll be creating some mtb technique courses down the road.
Very good video. The slow-mo comparison next to each other ist wonderful for understanding the topic.
I actually think the new riding style is more neutral, in the bike per se, even though it is more forward relative to the old, behind the rear wheel style. Great video and great side by side comparisons.
Agreed. It works on older geo bikes too.
This is hands-down one of the best how to mtb videos I've ever seen! Thanks, man!
I was an old school, early '90's hard tail rider and didn't know squat about technique (strictly self-taught) but recently, I bought a new hard tail and took it to a 2 day core fundamentals clinic and wow! Before: I couldn't handle switchback turns. Now: with proper technique, much easier. Before: I used to wash out on turns. Now: with proper technique, so much more confident and sticking those turns. Before, I could climb ok, but it was so painful. Now: with proper technique, less painful when climbing and I can go longer uphill. Bottom line: the better one's technique, the better your performance will be on the trail and I dare say, the modern geometry lends itself well to these techniques. Awesome video!
Totally agree! I love hearing stories like this. Sometimes those of us who have been riding the longest need the most help from clinics. It's hands down the best money spent on a bike.
Good analysis. I am an older rider but have definitely adapted to the modern bike geometry and love it. I do occasionally mix in some old school techniques maybe just goofing around or a temporary relapse.
For everyone who really want to improve Go to a pumptrack
And remember to keep your pedels leveled. NO one goes one pedel up, one down, especially not on a pump track or on a bmx...
Thx for the video. Excellent relevant topic! I been riding for over 20 years but recently have transitioned over to slacker bikes. Wasn't thinking about the techniques so this is definitely a wake-up call. Appreciate your channel. Thumbs up!
You did a very good job explaining this, I think many people will need to experience it, to really appreciate the difference. I washed out my front end the first few rides on my new bike. I actually have found that, for me, the climbing position actually took me a few months to adapt my muscles , where I felt like I was able to put out the same power for the same time. It's a interesting transition the industry is making, but I feel like it's one that is for the better. Now if they could just decide on a hub standard, that wouullddd be greeeeattt..
Totally agree, the hub standards are awful.
Really good video! Now I understand why I recently felt out of place on these newer bikes. The geometry has changed!
This was so insightful! Beautifully explained and solved my cornering woes
I have a late 90's Kona Kilauea and I am totally that butt tire rider. Excellent video and tips as I am considering getting a newer hard tail. Thanks the time and effort you put into this video
my man! I think I too am using too much of our 90s technique, that we all mid 30s and up learned. I think I have to dig in more into the downer part of these sections! Stoked to be doing this on my upcoming NS Scout Expert with 29" wheels! Definitely following you, until you stop with these videos some day.
Wow! Seen a lot of videos on the newer body position but I havent really committed yet getting out of that leaned back position. You simply nailed it with your explanation and demonstration. When you showed rolling on a technical stuff even with a slower pace but with confidence. The cornering looks really good too. Will definitely start working on that. Thank you so much.
I was literally talking about cornering yesterday and about body positioning. This was a very informative video. Thank you for posting it!
This makes soooo much sense! Thank you! I generally have a old school technique of riding but since getting my Giant Trance I have found that I don’t need to ride like that. This video just confirms everything I have been feeling with the new bike.
Great video. I still find myself falling into my old riding habits from the early 90's on my Giant Iguana and Marin Rocky Ridge Hardtails. Haha. About 5-6 years ago when I got my first aggressive modern geo Commencal Meta AM Hardtail it took me a long time to figure out what I was doing wrong. I still feel like I am getting use to the more modern geo but I definitely feel way better than back in the 90's.
One of the most helpful videos on riding modern bikes in general... hardtail or otherwise.
Great job in educating and demonstration. Have not come across a better explanation with comparative demonstration in any training video. You also gave a great visualization of what I would call the three most critical factors in advanced riding. 1- "end of your rope" with elbows locked leads to OTB and inability to maneuver 2- neutral position allows a deliberate weighting or unweighting of the front end for a balanced control of the bike 3- cornering by leaning the bike with a low CG weighting the BB vs turning the bars. You may not have intended to these specific concepts but this is what I observed. Great job!
I definitely intended to include those concepts. Thanks for the kind words.
Great vid. Just bought my first modern geo bike - a Trek Roscoe. First ride out on the trails, I noticed some strange handling up and down some punchy tech stuff. Moved a little forward in my attach position and it was like magic. My old short wheelbase FS 26’er had me doing funny things.
This has helped me so much. I came from a 2005 Rockhopper, with about a ten year break from riding, to a newer bike. I felt like I was learning all over again, and was confused and frustrated. Explains so much! Thank you.
Glad it helped! A lot has changed, and the new bikes don't ride like older bikes
First MTB was a 1989 GT Avalanche (Arctic Blue). Old school, but excited to get on a new ride and learn how to ride it well!
This is a great video, and I'm saying that as someone who has been cycling and racing/competing since the mid '90s. My last mountain bike was a '99 Santa Cruz Chameleon, and then I rode trials for many years, and then I did road, and recently I got back into mountain biking in Colorado and have a 2021 27.5 Timberjack GX, which I absolutely love right now. It's important to note that the geometry and components play together and evolve together. If you had told me 20 years ago that my mountain bike would have a 66* head tube and a short stem, I'd ask what you were smoking. But, when that comes together with the rest of the geometry changes plus 27.5"x2.8" wheels that substantially impact stability and performance at speed, the whole thing starts to make sense. I'm amazed at the stability at speed caused by rotating wheels that are far heavier than anything I have ever ridden with, even as a trials rider. These modern bikes, when they go fast, the stability is great. We never had that in the '90s unless you increased the head tube angle and had a long stem. The wheels I used to ride on feel flimsy now.
I’m 5’8 and I ride a 2019 Kona Honzo ST and sized up to a size large. I put on a 2 degree angled headset to slacken it out. After watching your video, I want to try the modern technique of riding it. I need to get the confidence to ride it how you explained on the downhills. Elbows bent, knees bent and chin over the handlebars.
That was super helpful! I ride like a modern, but my bike is older so i've been trying to get in that more old school approach, but it just doesn't fit my riding style and it feels so rigid. But, I wasn't sure why I was changing my body positon, it just naturally lead me that way when I started trying to improve my riding. Time for a new bike! haha
Wow! I really needed this and it makes sense. I went from an 2018 trek Marlin (old school) to a 2023 trek roscoe and now it looks I got to relearn my riding style a bit. I already picked up on some techniques but this is gold and explains a lot! I actually sized down on my roscoe and shorten the stem I love how it rides, I guess in the future I could go back with the longer stem for more reach but I think it’s good for now.
I've got a custom Marlin 4 with the modern slacker/longer geo and an older SS Bianchi w/ the older shorter geo. I couldn't quite explain why they felt so different until I came across your video! Awesome explanation!
Your instruction has made me much more confident on technical descents. thanks.
Glad to hear it helped.
Great vid, practiced these techniques today and what a difference. Way more composed and in control, on the downs and cornering.
Thank you, exactly what I needed. I've only always ridden old school. 4 Weeks ago I bought a new mountain bike, and kept complaining my steering is lose ("nervous steering"). I'm definitely going to play around with body position. I might have to move my seat a little forward too. This was perfect advice. Thank you !
Wow. This was a very eye-opening video. Gonna give the modern style a try as I believe to be a bit of an old-school style rider. But I am certainly open to changing my riding style to match my more modern geo bike. Thank you!
This video is particularly interesting to me because I currently switch back and forth between riding a contemporary hard tail and riding a vintage hard tail. When first descending with the contemporary bike, I noticed how much more stable things felt; I felt it could be chalked to the geometry of the bike. Of course, in viewing your video, I've realized that I should be adjusting my riding style much more than I previously had. I might then enjoy my modern bike more.
Very educational! I never really paid attention. Simply ride and crash and randomly figure out what fails . I need to attend a skills clinic . Thankyou for waking me up to these ideas
Your video made me look at my bike in a new way the frame is some what old school 2019 chisel expert but I modified it with slightly more modern geometry and I have noticed performance changes you mentioned in this video and should help me on my next trail rides
just like magic! it opened my eyes! i'm a bit of old-school but now i love my 66-degree HA Specialized Enduro even more! Thanks! \m/
Whouuuuuuu!! I knew u were about to show me something that my mind didnt know about!
Ive been saving up to pick up a hardtail but im an old school rider.
I'm above 40 now but in my head im still that teenager from the 90s who rode down stairs and did all those stunts and climbed uphill better than the average person in india...
And then i see YOU climb up that rock face like that and im blown away.
And shifting your weight onto the handlebars like that, whoa!
I believe i used to try and keep my weight off my bicycle back then to 'protect' it so to speak. But i reckon these new bikes can easily take on heavy weight without breaking.
This video was an eye opener for me.
Watched those slow-moz several times and suddenly realized that time has changed things.
Beautiful engineering!
Thank you for making this video for us!
Oh this was so helpful. Just went from a 2013 bike to a 2021. First ride was dream and then it all seem to fall apart as I over analyzed how I was riding it. I can see now it was putting me over the front on purpose and the leaning way back feels wrong on this bike (plus a huge bail on the first ride otb didn't help me embrace the change is riding style).
Cheers, so helpful!
Great video Steve! One of the best instructional videos I’ve seen in a while. It’s a great reminder to stay over the front. I notice when I’m riding less aggressively I have a tendency to sit back more and my front wheel starts washing out. Can’t wait for the Banshee review. I’m thinking of building one up but I’d love to get your stamp of approval first 😆
Review coming soonish.
Steve, Bravo! This info is so good. I went from an old school XC full sus to a modern trail bike and this is my exact experience in the corners. I'll have to try your technique with the steep descents. Good stuff.
Jan 2021. Coming off an old skool geo bike, to *first ride of my brand new Norco Fluid HT* with 66 degree head angle and modern geometry. I deliberately followed the advice in this video and was laughing with exhilaration at how well the bike railed the corners and descended chunky stuff. Then... on one very fast berm, I kinda forgot and lapsed into old skool riding technique and didn't weight the front enough. I ended up over the back of the berm in the grass. It was a good lesson to me that my new bike demands a different technique when I'm riding hard. I have recommended this video to many people in mtbr forums and also my friends with new bikes. Its one of the best videos on youtube.
I'm glad to hear it helped. Thanks for sharing this video with friends.
This great video started me on the journey of selling my old school hardtails (Soulcraft and Vassago) and using Steve’s Patreon consultation to get me on two more modern bikes (Spot Rocker and Stanton Sherpa Ti).
You can teach an old dog (@57yo) new tricks…just takes time and motivation. I ended up going thru two riding clinics to dial in my modern technique.
I am now a much better, faster and more confident rider at 57 than I was at 37. It’s well worth the effort to update your technique.
So glad to hear it! Thanks for reporting back
I am new to mountain biking and I just wanted you to know this video really helped me. thank you
Glad to hear it, thanks for letting me know.
I just moved from a 2012 Nukeproof Mega to a new Trek Roscoe 9 and it feels like a bit of a runaway train on the steep stuff, so I'm definitely going to try these techniques. Thanks for the video!