Thinset for Tile...DO's and DON'Ts (Quick Tips with Sal DiBlasi)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2024
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Thinset for tile is super important and today you'll get great tips from Sal DiBlasi who's been a tile setter for 32 years in Boston. Subscribe to Sal's channel at / saldibs
The first part of this video shares what not to do when applying thinset to tiles, walls and floors. Sal shares the 'Why' behind thinset failures and several case studies of tile failures. IMHO, everyone should listen to what Sal says in this video to prevent a massive tile installation failure like the one he shared here • Marble Bathroom instal...
The second part of the video explores proper thinset technique and how to back butter tiles. You'll see common mistakes like using the wrong sized notch, not back buttering and not using directional trowel techniques. Oh the flip side, we also share the correct thinset application and how to ensure good adhesion between tiles and substrates.
Watch the video for all the details
• Thinset for Tile...DO'... - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
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Classy pair of professionals. I like how they compliment and promote each other. Everyone can learn from this, and we can all learn something from every person we come across. Thanks for the video.
Sal is the man with tile. Been watching for awhile on youtube. A true craftsman and professional!
+Fireship1 agree, and he's a great guy 👍
SUPERB tutorial! Thanks for educating those who care about their work.
The rationale provided for each method of back-buttering, WITH the demo's, provided the WHY for the right trowel and directional application.Great video. Suggest minimizing the verbal and maximizing the show and tell. Good work!
Thanks Joe for the feedback
Can't please everybody. I found the explanations useful, as I am the type of person that wants to know why and how. ;)
Thank you so much for this video. I have tile in kitchen that is tenting and needs to be repaired. After watching Sal explain what not to do I understand now why the tiles are tenting. I'm going to use the techniques Jeff demonstrated when I redo the tiles. Thanks again. Great tips and very helpful video.
Thanks Julia, hopefully your project goes smoothly with the tips :)
I was tempted to be lazy and not back butter.
You changed my mind.
Thanks!
You guys are awesome. Big thanks to Sal as always. Not sure if it's a big enough topic for a collab video but any ideas on installing accents that may be thinner than surrounding tile on different substrates. Thanks guys!
+Gonzo Charvel thank you and that's a great idea. I'll run it by Sal 👍
thanks guys I'm in the process of redoing a bathroom I'm almost ready for tiling I'm going to water proof with redgard water proofing agent with a mesh. the videos you have done have most likely saved me alot of grief. Thankyou very much.
glad they helped, each step in the process of a remodel has its own challenges but once you know the tips you can move along with confidence
Thank you Jeff for inviting Sal, the best tile guy.
Sal is pretty awesome, we're pretty excited to work with him. We're exploring topics for the next video...anything you'd like to see?
I would like to see you and Sal do a collaboration on a walking bathroom shower and the best waterproofing method.
So it means that I am wright with my tiles fixing last week.. it's done great... I' m really happy for the good result.... Nice video very informative... Thank you...
Thanks for the info on the Thinset. I have kitchen, bathroom floors that have hollow void and need to be replace. What is the best why to repair any suggestions would be gladly appreciated.
My curbless shower base has vinyl liner extending between pan and concrete floor. Should I trim it off level to the floor or caulk it to the floor, and tile over the excess liner?
Like the video very informative. Thank you. How much thin set is needed for a ten tile replacement for a small bathroom. Not the entire gallon?
Maybe 10-15 pounds but it depends on the trowel size
keep up the great work guys.
+Lou Valerio thank you, hope it was helpful 👍
Thank you for the great informative video!
Is it the same directional and back buttering on mosaic tiles? Thanks so much for the demo’s. Really helped me understand the thin set application more.
Sal is the man!
So is there ever a time when you would spot set tiles? Let’s say if the walls were not square? I have a fireplace walk around all 4 sides start with durarock but the walls are not square to each other...
I tried to do the best coverage I could by applying a an even coat with a lg trowel on my detra all going in one direction and then back buttered the tile and troweled in the opposite direction. so I had lines horizontal on the floor and vertically on the back of the 12x24. I did not do them in the same direction because I was told to do them in the opposite direction. It has been almost 2 days of dry time due to taking two days to finish. I hope I didn't screw it all up because of the direction of the troweling .
If all you are using is thin set for doing a mosaic design for a stepping stone outdoors, can you seal thin set? I know it’s recommended to seal grout but part of my design I will only be using thin set and I would like to know if I can use a sealer over it?
You guys are awesome!!!
thanks for the info, in the next day or two, I will be installing 18x18 with directional floor and back butter coverage. .. thanks!!
Really helpful video, guys - thank you!
thank you, let us know if you have any questions.
I want know how u install the barn door for the bathroom
thanks for all the valuable information! definitely never thought of any of these things (I've never really laid tile before, but want to)
Good job, guys! 👍
Any tips on how to push the air out from under the tile on the last tile placed where you can move it around? Thanks
Thank you for the video, I have a tiled fireplace and want to get a stoney effect, is is possible to tile over the existing ones? Or Ideally I would like to get a split stone effect using white cement or PoP something along those lines, If possible what would be the best medium for this? Thanks
I wonder if you screw wire mesh over with thinset?
Very Informative THANKS
I have been watching all your videos and it has really helped me. My big question is I am ready to tile both the walls and the floor. The floor is 12" sq's but the walls are Lowes, Anatolia Tile Chiaro Tumbled Subway Mosaic Travertine Wall Tile (Common: 12-in x 12-in; Actual: 10-in x 12-in)
Item # 260587 Model # 20-513 two different worlds. Which one would you do first the walls or the floors is my big question. Thanks, Tom
Pittsburgh, Pa
Thanks Tom, we'd recommend tiling the floors first, that way you can hide the small gap at the wall with the wall tile. Is this a shower or are you tiling the bathroom floor and walls outside the shower. Go Steelers!
do you have to backbutter thinset on the tile in the same direction as the thinset on the wall?
Sal is the best tile guy around!
+Anthony Agnello 👍👍
sal is a true tile master...
Anthony Agnello he doesn't much showers not the best around
mgtow a. Gutierrez you doesn’t much English. Not best around. So please go your own way loser.
renaissanceman the response I get is I'm a loser you're a moron try explaining what I asked Kerdi Schluter sucks
Please tell me it's just longer drying time?
Big fan of sal . Great video.
thank you, we're brainstorming more videos...any ideas?
Home Repair Tutor hmm how about getting the correct pitch for a shower, methods or products that help make a proper motar bed???
Previous owner in my house I’m at now did the tile in the shower. And it’s only 3” x 6” subway tile but he has 1/2” or so of mortar behind it all
What if you have too much mortar? Is that bad?
By the way why can't I ever find a video where I can see Kerdi Schluter being adhere to a substrate levels like you all show in your videos
How do I install red quarry tile outside on concrete steps
I've never done any home repairs but my engineered wood flooring is starting to popup despite my home being only 8 yrs old. I plan to replace with tile and am considering doing the work myself. Should be easy right, haha.
These video help a lot but also show common mistakes and leave me wondering how well did the developer follow proper procedures for tiling the bathroom and shower.
Great that you showed the examples of each. Can't believe anyone would use the "blob method"!
Right? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
If the double-notch technique is used, can it be different sized notched trowels; sometimes a tile job is only to patch an area of the floor that tile has popped up, so if only the area that has popped up is being replaced, the tiles next to them are raised some, and it makes it difficult to get the tiles level with those, so it may be necessary to use a little more thinset in that area. If the home owner doesn't want to retile the whole room there's nothing one can do but try his best to fix the problem; and the floor may not have been levelled at the beginning neither. So most of the videos out there are about tiling in perfect situations, but not about solving problems and partial tiling.
Well done gentlemen!!
thank you Steve, appreciate your kind words
So I did the directional 1/4 inch trowel and also did the directional back butter on 12x24 tiles. But I did not mash down or put too much pressure on them as I layed them in place. Do you think I will have problems down the road?
Time will tell, compressing the ridges and moving the tile back/forth helps with bonding. The fact that you back buttered and did directional troweling is great. Proper thin-set mixing also matters a lot
For a tile that large you didn’t use a large enough trowel. 1/2 for 12x12 and up. If that’s a floor you tiled you will have hollow spots.
How thick is the tile and what thin-set will be used? Also, are you using a leveling system?
If you're tiling into a tight corner where you can't move the tile back and forth, how can you collapse the ridges?
When you lay pebble rocks is there a trick to not make it look like a grid of rocks or do you hand stick the majority of them ?
+les brinson some installers prefer to set by hand to avoid the grid pattern
Thanks guys !
What would be the best thinset to use on my 4x16 ceramic tile job . walls are 1/2 thick durock sealed with red guard . thanks in advance for your reply .
we like non-sag polymer modified thin-set like Ardex X5 for those tiles. If you have a mosaic accent then using X77 would help a lot with that part of the installation. If you can't find Ardex products try Laticrete or Mapei thin-set mortars, they're also very good.
@@HomeRepairTutor what about tiling 12" porcelain for kitchen countertops? Modified thinset?
good colab guys!
thank you, there will be more videos down the road. What would you like to see us tackle?
yeah, could you guys do a tutorial on how you guys plan a tile layout and how to set a ledger board! Thanks!
Adam Richard I'll run it by Sal, good idea. Tile layout for floor, wall, tub?
walls and tub surround! Thanks. i love both you and Sals videos!
Is Sturdi Flex a good thin set?
Great examples.
Thank you!
Common sense to me so I'm amazed most people don't know this and have to be taught. Your videos are outstanding.
Thanks I do the majority around edges to avoid a cut tile , but may just do the entire shower
+les brinson the other thing to consider is how much adhesive is on the back of the mesh, if it's a lot the thin-set can't bond with the tile. Setting each stone by hand would be better than the tiles popping off the pan
Is back buttering necessary on smaller format tiles such as subway tile. I am about to remodel my bathroom and have noticed a lot instructional videos on subway tile not back buttering.
greenewater26 Just do it. What do you lose?
@@crunch9876 time and thin$et.
Flat trowel the substrate, add more mud, use directional trowel, set your tile and move on
300mm and bigger i back butter. 12mm trowel all the way
Is that how thick you normally mix your mud?????? Looks thin to me. We usually mix
ours much stiffer. Good video, people need to see this.
thicker = less working time and more change of mastic sticking together, try to keep it on the thin side but not to the point where its falling off the wall / off the tile during handling. It also depends how much you are tiling at once.
His mix looks fine, maybe slightly thicker but hes doing a floor example where its not as critical and he wanted it on the thinner side to allow him to remove it multiple times.
Do you recommend Tile adhesive mat like Simple mat the ones sold at Home depot for small tile jobs like mosaic backspalsh. Thanks
I looked into those a few years back and decided thin-set was a more permanent bond. With the heat produced from ovens and hot water my concern was the viability of the backing and the possibility of tiles falling off. My 2 cents
Mapei kerabond isolastic . I never use water in my adhesive
What brand of non modified mortar do you guys recommend for using with Schluter kerdi? I have seen guy recommend mapei kerabond which is a premium mortar. My issue is I cannot find a local business that sells it. Any other brands that would be a good fit. I've read that the big box store brand non modified mortars are not that great. Thx
+Eran and Aubre Barnhart yah, I use Kerabond as well. I'll have to ask Sal what he recommends. Our local mom and pop tile store carries it, none of the big box stores have Kerabond
Next question....I think I may try and special order it through a dealer locally that I found. My question is though, about how many pounds of mortar mix would a 4x4 shower take using 12x24" tiles? I dont want to short myself half way through my project and run out. The bags I would get are 25 pounds ea.
That'll depend on the size of the notched trowel and the coverage for the specific thin-set mortar. The bags typically have that on the back but if you have to special order I'd call the manufacturer and ask them as you don't want to over order but don't want to under order. Here are a few thin-sets that Sal recommends
Bostik: Ditra-set
Tec: Uncoupling Membrane Mortar
Laticrete: 317 or 272
Mapei: Kerabond
Custom: Uncoupling Mat Mortar
Back butter is also very helpful to avoid lippage gives you added room for manipulation
yes, very true
Seen a guy do this with glass .Spot on..
If you buttered the back of the tiles in the first two tests would the results have come out the same?
+danbiss87 hard to say, but using the right size trowel is an absolute must for coverage
Not being an expert or even a novice I think you are correct also.
Flat trowel back butter then use a 3/8 trowel directional thin set . The rest is overkill unless you need to float a low tile up .
I do the same thing lol... sometimes on really large tile I use 1/2 inch
I'd like to see a test where they only backbutter. No thinset on the substrate.
Thank you. Should you use modified or non modified thinset over a waterproof membrane such as Elastolock?
Helpful
That procedure will work with Acrylic thin set also?
We only recommend thin-set mortar in wet areas
sal diblasi is a beast
he's certainly one of the best teachers on TH-cam and in real life
I'll save you first 5/10 minutes. Blobs of adhesive method leaves gaps that can lead to cracks
mickbanner I’ll up you, and save 15 minutes. Use 3/8 trowel, trowel in straight lines (directional), back butter completely and also trowel directionally in same orientation as trowling on surface being tiled. Wiggle to collapse trowel lines by expelling air. Now go watch a more useful video of them actually doing an install.
Sal is the Man
+howiboy 👍
I need to set 6 24x24 ceramic tiles onto hardybacker on a floor with no exposed grout lines... what should I do ?
Stephen, are you saying there are no grout joints?
Home Repair Tutor yes they are a decorative tile laid out in front of a fireplace and but up against each other
Hmm, we always recommend grout joints
Home Repair Tutor so if I add a thing grout joint what is the best way to make sure these tiles don't end up coming off
stephen frank j
What happens when the builder/customer you are working for doesn’t pay for the extra prep work required to do it the right way...I’ve got a huge problem with that here in Oklahoma
Explain to the consequences and show them some of the failure videos on TH-cam. Sal DiBlasi has some great examples of failures over on his channel and I'd show clients those if they don't want to pay for the extra prep.
Home Repair Tutor seems easy enough, but as a tile installer that does mainly new residential my cents is null and void when it comes down to the bottom dollar...budget and time are unfortunately the main concerns with most of the builders we work for. Don’t get me wrong, they expect quality, but with a deflated price. I’ve watched a good deal of Sals videos and I notice that there is quite a bit of retail/remodel work, where there is more room for negotiations in the pricing of the job, when I have remodels I do push for better materials because usually I’m replacing something that failed in the first place so it’s easy to make comparisons on the spot.
Hopefully they listen to your suggestions, it’s hard to find good installers and you sound like a good one. Keep on plugging away and you’ll see success.
I can tell you as far as new construction, builders just want the house to make it past their 1-5 year warranty. Most literally do not care.
Josh Hoover A builder or whomever is paying you for a job start to finish. They say here is the tile I want, here is the square footage, give me your price. They don't outline the exact steps or installation method do they? You should build the proper methods into your price - not the GC. If you're winning bids based only on being the low bidder you're doing something wrong. Reputation, experience and references should be selling you. If you're past jobs with him are receiving minimal or no callbacks to the builder, he should be using you even if you're slightly more expensive than the cheaper guy who's probably cutting corners and generating more callbacks to the builder. You can't blame whomever is paying you for substandard work. YOU'RE the one doing the work.
I'm also curious as to how thick I should expect the final outcome . The tiles I'm using are 1/4" thick , and I believe I read that 3/8" thinset ends up being 3/16" thick when compressed ? So my added thickness would be just under 1/2" thick I think .
The reason I ask is , I'm putting the nipples in for the showers wand and tub spout , and need to know the final thickness
You didnt butter the first tile in your test. this is nonsense. a complete waste of time to butter every tile. Ive been tiling for 30 years with ZERO complaints or failure with straight trowel lines and tile pushed into it. stick to making videos.
where can you get the tcna book? and personally i dont double notch i find it harder to keep lippage at minimum but i do back butter all my tiles
here's a link to their site, they offer both a digital and hard cover version of the Handbook
www.tcnatile.com/products-and-services/publications/218-english-publications.html
Thank you
Jeff your growing on me a little. Wasn’t sure about you in the first couple videos I watched probably your youth but I’m starting to soften my stance a little. Last couple videos taught even this old dog some new tricks. Not back butter and trowel stuff we knew that already.
Thank you, we do our best to share knowledge and learn from anyone. That also includes going to seminars and reading the TCNA Handbook, which isn’t scintillating but necessary
Ive back buttered since I started tiling, covering the entire back of the tile.
Effective, but consumes more of both time and thinset.
Great Video! thank you and PLEASE Take off the iWatch next time? accidents do happen even if you are skilled with thinset
I used a stand up trowel to spread mortar it was so easy and fast. I love using the stand-up trowel I recommend that everybody should use a stand-up trowel you can get one at shankfloortools.com
What if you are using subway tile?
This wow for a smart phone ya think it could do spell check. But noooo i gotta make corrections.
Steelers baby!!!
hi
steve here in the UK
what is thin set?
is it tile adhesive
iv never heard of thin set so thought id ask
thanks
steve
Yes It is a tile adhesive. Usually thought of as the Portland sand mix type but the term thin-set applies to all the products used to set backers, tile, others like tub and shower bases.
@@normanlanglois5408
thanks
ill confuse all of my work buddies now ha
steve
Very helpful! But these weren't "quick" tips :)
Go Brady!!
Lol
Jeff if you’re going to waste that much time on back buttering the tile, just use 1/2 trowel and the job is done With out the extra work
Why not show swirl trowled and a flat back butter? Seems like you missed that one to highlight your method. Swirl trowel will get plenty of coverage especially if you back butter and use the proper notch.
Because they want to make it seem like a bad thing, all tile youtubers ive seen do this test always do this
Its really all in the back butter
Completely biased
What I gathered from the video, directional troweling allows air to escape when ridges are collapsed, swirl troweling does not.
Pros apparently spot bond, its so shit and they are the best at what they do, sadly DIY users pay pros to do tile work and then have to go back and fix it themselves.
Thanks to youtube and a lot of these channels, a lot of info, a lot of time on here but its a lot clearer the simple steps that need to take place for a proper job.
Thanks again for the great content.
ur a dope
Bill Hamilton no one asked for your opinion ... so gfy :)
@@oneeyedrone4293 HAHAHA,, open the other eye douche bag,,mite help you see better
What is a sa fuss?
SA Fuss?
Home Repair Tutor your video was very helpful...Thank you! As a southern speaking person, I will amused with your pronunciation of surface (sa fuss).You would be equally amused at some of my pronunciations.
start watching at minute 7
I don't have a single straight wall in my house. Same as you. To show how to apply cement to the tile, it's just a joke.
I do remodels and like thos video
Thank you
I can’t believe back buttering isn’t required to all tiles 12x12 and larger. I wish you would have done directional trowel with no back buttering and looked at coverage.
th-cam.com/video/Way5bMh-eYg/w-d-xo.html
You were a little bias, the last method you were sure to really move the tile around to make sure it set well in the thin set
You’re right but hopefully the main idea was communicated well and that’s to understand thin-set mortar and what goes into its application.
finally someone that knows how to tile, not like that other guy on his channel.
I'd disagree with the last statement, we have great tutorials on tiling
7:32
Sometimes I beat the horse, just to make sure it's dead too.
THATS ALOT GUYS!
Hell with thenset let's just go back to mud set walls
Tom Mead what is that?
Every trade calls there stuff mud.
I doubt your talking about drywall joint compound which is called mud. You talking mortar?
Tom....idiot, let's crank our car from the front of the engine...dumbass
brady = G.O.A.T. !!!
+Christopher Fiorentino lol, most of Pgh would agree...but hey, they won so gotta give them that
Books
Kerdi systems hardibacker dance Shield they're all fast way of doing a shower not precise by the way they are all fast ways of doing a shower mudding is shower is the best way.
Troweling in a circular pattern - do not.
+marijan jurcic we don't recommend that, our preference is directional troweling and to make all the ridges the same for both the substrate and tile. That prevents air pockets from forming and collapsing of the thin-set for 100% coverage and an excellent bond
ok and dont spot trowel either..
Why did you make no attempt to collapse the ridges with the "incorrect" methods? Be consistent.
He didn't do a directional one without back buttering either.