WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU INSTALL THE WRONG CAM IN YOUR 4.8L? 4 CAMS TESTED, STOCK VS TQ VS LS9 VS SUM
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
- WHAT IS THE BEST CAM FOR MY 4.8L? HOW MUCH POWER IS A CAM SWAP WORTH ON A 4.8L? CAN YOU RUN TOO MUCH CAM ON YOUR 4.8L? HOW HIGH CAN I REV THE 4.8L? WHAT HAPPENS IF MY 4.8L CAM IS TOO BIG? WHERE SHOULD I SFIT A CAMMED 4.8L? DO I NEED A HIGHER STALL CONVERTER WITH A CAMMED 4.8L? HOW CAN I FIX THE LACK OF TORQUE ON A BIG CAM IN MY 4.8L? WILL A CONVERTER HELP? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO WHERE I RAN A 4.8L WITH FOUR DIFFERENT CAMS (STOCK, BTR TORQUE, LS9, SUMMIT 8720) TO SHOW HOW MUCH POWER EACH WAS WORTH. I ALSO COVERED WHAT CAN BE DONE WITH EACH CAM TO FURTHER OPTIMIZE THE POWER CURVE OFFERED BY EACH.
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Modern 3600rpm + stall converters drive like stock converters at low throttle speeds. Stand on the gas pedal and get ready to boogy. Alot of people have it in their minds that a 3600rpm converter wont even start to couple until that RPM, thats just not how they work now.
I run a 5500 on the street
You missed 1 thing stall speed slows the pump speed down which creates heat which will reduce transmission life. They have stall speeds at 3300 rpm factory but you find they have much more cooling capacity and hold more fluid to compensate. Old 4 quart with a 4500 converter 1 1/4 for a reason heat.. heats no bueno on a a/t transmission
I run a 3,600 stall in my truck.
@@faustthehammer8706 How does it slow the pump speed down when the pump is directly coupled to the converter shell and the flywheel ? When your engine is turning at any rpm the pump is turning at the exact same speed. The input shaft is hydraulically coupled to the stator of the converter so as the oil slips buy it turns slower but the pump is still at engine speed pumping as much as possible.
@faust the hammer that's why you use coolers and fans.did you think of that,?????
I run the standard truck Norris in my 5.3 Silverado. Hard to go wrong there
For about 3 years I’ve asked for another summit 8720 review!!
Thank Richard!!
Richard , I just love your channel! I have learned so much through you ! Seems like every 5 mins there’s another informative vid !
Summit 8720 - one of my favorites!!! Great to see it.
Gotta say, I am always impressed with that BTR torque cam despite it not thumping out BIG numbers. It's a single pattern, but seems to do the job. Obviously BTR put in the work on that one.
I’ve always felt like it’s the cam GM would have used if they weren’t trying to squeeze emissions compliance out these motors. They are a great daily driver cam.
@@chandlerlofton6536 I bet it could pass the sniffer test, -20 degrees of overlap.
@@chandlerlofton6536 True. Emissions compliance is probably one of the biggest factors in designing the stock cams. Have to have low NOx numbers as well as just cleanly burning all the fuel.
I always think about a video I saw years back. It might be Richards, but the cam guys on the vid said "single pattern cams are for farm tractors". This btr single pattern seems legit.
Don’t understand the hate towards the 4.8. For a daily driver it’s the most reliable of the 4.8, 5.3, and 6.0 trio. I understand from the perspective of potential power it may be handicapped compared to the other two but there’s something to be said for the 4.8’s ability to stack up mile after mile reliably and efficiently. I’d love to put one in my GMT400 with a turbo setup designed for pulling/ truck usage. Sorta like what Ford does with their Ecoboost truck engines but more reliable.
the 4.8l is no more reliable than the 5.3 or 6.0-but they are all good motors
any plans to dyno test Hookers new HP chevy exhaust manifolds? theyre pretty cool, 2.5" outlets and look like OEM log manifolds.
Great video
Hey Richard, love your videos! You have helped me out a lot. but I was curious if you wold cover and compare some of GPI's ls3 cams with some of the other well performing cams.
Please Keep up the great work and videos!
I have a 1998 SVT Cobra. The factory gearing was 3.23, or something close. I put in 4.33 gears. With Mickey Thompson drag radials it will beat my 2006 Z06 across an intersection, and the Z06 has drag radials too!
Didn't MM&FF (years ago) take a 95 cobra, stock except for 4:56 gears and pull mid 12s? I bet your 98 feels like a rocket ship taking off.
4.8 SS2 fan checking in! I like screaming it out past 7k hehe
a 228 cam will want to run out there on a 4.8l
One thing I was taught/learned was if your shifts drop 2000+rpm’s your converter is too tight/low stall for the combo. If your shifts drop less than 500rpms it is too loose/high stall for the combo.
By the time you spend the extra money and labor to get the lower gears and stall converter did you really save money by going to the ls9 cam. Seems to me like the btr cam or summit cam although more expensive they're going to do ok with stock gears and converter. I realize that there's performance still being left behind using stock stuff but for a hot little street/strip it would work. It also gives room to grow if you want to get more serious at the track.
Summit cam is a serious performer in a 4.8!
Problems usually came in 2 waves. The cam was too big for the setup they were running. And the combination was not matched.
Meaning not enough rear gear and not enough t c stallspeed.
Bloodviking
My son just put the 8701 in his '98 S10 swapped 5.3L. It's the exact same specs but a lot less lift than the 8720.
.524/.522
He hasn't got it tuned exactly correct yet but man! 7,000 RPM and ~400 HP?! 😮
That little truck is going to be a real ripper!
That's what a 4.8 L needs to go into, something on the lighter side. Sounds like fun.
@@rotaxtwin You know what's weird? The 98 S10 is actually a beefy little truck. Well, his is. It's an ext cab which doesn't help, but having a full frame and that 3rd door puts it higher than I thought it was. It's about 3,400 lbs. Obviously far from "heavy" but you're right. It's still going to make for a fun little truck.
@@Carl_Jr yeah I had a 4.0L supercab Ranger that was probably in the ballpark, but it's all relative.
with less lift, i dont know if it will wind out to 7k like the 8720
The power numbers and curve for the Summit cammed LS4.8 are fairly close to a stock 09 Cayenne GTS: 405hp, 369ft/lbs. Porsche managed the lack of low end torque with gearing. 4.10 final drive and for the Manual transmission a 6:1 1st gear.
dyno hp vs rated hp are not the same
@@richardholdener1727 true, but in this example the displacement, hp and tq peak RPM points are the same.
The big differences the Porsche 4.8l engine has is DOHC, variable cam timing and lift, so the torque peak is carried from 3500-5000rpm.
Continued from below,
A modified 454 block. Others may disagree but how long will your engine last at higher power levels.
Fix all the known weak points in any engine.
Serious hp, high rpm engines aren't worth building with cast parts.
Always go with an aftermarket block if you can.
Don't run any stock lo perf factory parts if you can. No stock pushrods, or head bolts, or stock rings etc.
Sometimes it coasts almost as much to reaching a crank and recondition rods as it does for stronger aftermarket ones.
Most used racing parts have been fatigued whether they look good or not.
I could go on and on.
Bloodviking, 80s engine builder.
Shift 3-5% past the peak 👍
I have an 02 Silverado ECSB 4x4 with a 4.8, 3.73's. I swapped in a Summit 8718 as it was described as a towing/MPG cam. It feels about the same as stock down low with a bit more mid-upper 4500+. I was expecting more, but it could be the mail order tune. I think the 4.8 is just too small in displacement to take much advantage of cam mods for low end torque in a heavy truck... I think with a 5.3 or 6.0, the gains would be much more noticeable. It does have a nice lope to it.
I've debated on pulling the 4.8 for a 5.3/6.0, but its hard to pull a motor that runs fine and does everything I need it to. Its a daily that pulls an aluminum bass boat. 240K and still going strong.
no cam adds much power at 2000-2500 rpm
@@richardholdener1727what pushrod length was used with 8720
Ritch, I have been searching for your L78 dyno test. Hope I have not missed it.
have not re run it yet
I'm building a 4.8 right now for a V8 S10 project I'm working on right now. I was thinking of running a LS9 cam because I have T5 WC 5 speed to put behind it. Those trans are only rated to 330 ft/lb of torque and I want a softer low end with the little truck. This is a low buck project with parts I just have sitting around and I will be running a carb on it, IMHO being so lite it should move out OK and have a big high end charge when I need it, I hope. It's pretty much an experiment at this point with the T5 and the carb, I've done a bunch of other swaps and they have all been fuel injected with automatics. Hopefully that T5 will have a couple passes in it before it grenades.
Throw a crapton of rear gear at it, and it should work.
Ar5 with a adapter is cheep and strong, Nissan cdoo9 is another one get a truck one with the shifter forward, super strong..
Many guys did this back in the day
Im running that summit cam on my 5.3 gen 4 dynoed 338whp on heavy 22x12s
Still debating on the truck Norris or btr stage 4 truck cam, on a 5.3 4l80e stock stall 2200 lmk
I'd like to see some cams specced by David Vizard in an LS. Put his ole 128 theory to the test. He always said, he doesn't have an opinion, he has a dyno. I know Brian Tooley uses valve events and says the LSA is simply a derivative of valve events. Both are super knowledgeable guys, with theories that almost go completely against each others.
THEIR THEORIES DON'T GO AGAINST EACH OTHER IF YOU LISTEN TO THE EXPLANATIONS. DAVE AND BRIAN HAVE SPOKEN-MUTUAL RESPECT.
I have personally found a tighter lsa is a positive thing in most situations . The ls is computer controlled in most cases , and people have a tendency to go for bigger duration numbers than they need for the rpm they an to run. To have a happy ls with a factory style computer and a chunky duration, a wider lsa helps . I believe most street cars would be happier with a tight lsa and shorter duration .
Just as an example, using this philosophy, I had bullet racing grind me a cam for my 72 camaro . It ran a stock longblock ls3 except w a gmpp dual plane intake , fast ez efi TB, and the cam ( 220-230 at .050, 108 lsa , 629 lift ).
The combo had an extreme automatics stage 2 2004r, 2600 rpm stall, and 3.42 gears . Ac, ps, pb . 3450lbs. It would pull hills in od w a locked converter at 1700rpms without added throttle input.
Car ran 11.60s spinning to a 1.9 60ft and trapped 119 mph.
Richard! A car will accelerate quicker in a lower gear out of the power peak than shifting early to have higher average power. In almost all cases its faster to rev even higher than normal. The reason way is because a lower gear at a lower power is still likely providing more power to the wheels than a taller gear at peak power. Obviously expectations to this. If power falls off a cliff say from 350 at 5500 to 175 at 6500 then probably going to be faster to shift before it falls way off. When I take my c7z to the drag strip I always hear someone say that car makes so much tq I shift at 5500 or something to that effect. I rev to just before limiter in 1st 2nd and 3rd. I finish in fourth. It's always faster than shifting even 100 rpms early. Peak power in 4th doesn't necessarily pull harder than outside of peak in a lower gear.
Wish there was this wealth of knowledge for 4 bangers
Stall speed isn't as big of a deal as it used to be. With the 4l60/4l80 using hptuners or holley efi you can start bringing in limited lockup in 2nd gear then transition to full lock in 3rd in D
Converter lock is the exact opposite of stall speed. Converter lock is why you CAN run a higher stall speed, not instead of it.
@@tunerdadtunerdad7927 yes that is exactly what I said
Thanks again. 😂
Rich, I’d like to see what happens when you use a BTR “turbo” cam in a nitrous application.
same as every other cam, the nitrous just adds to what is there with any cam
The 3.9 in a McLaren says, "Breath"!
Keep engine between torque peak and power peak???
Richard i have a stock 4.8 with a whipple 2.3 it dynoed 387 to the wheel, im looking into the lsa stock cam or ls9 , or any that would be recommended. Im in California so im not looking for something thats choppy more on the sleeper side would be best for me
My truck is a 2005 silverado rst regency they came equipped with a 4.8 nv3500 five speed with 373 gears .
I made 387 to the wheel on 28inch rims 🤦🏻♂️ yes i know the wheels are huge i built the rear end to fit 28x12 with four link and coil overs.
ls9 makes more
I know what helps that cam right or wrong.....
BOOST!!
Move that low torque curve, up a bit. Hehehe
Anybody that's serious about going fast with an NA V8 (especially a little 4.8) knows they ought to be looking at a 4,000rpm+ converter.
I know the answer to almost every question rich asks before he runs his tests.
Bloodviking
Why no recent 5.7 hemi stuff???
It's Steve" bang shift "motor
Question:
Can you put a 4.8 crank in an aluminum 5.3 block? If so what pistons would you run?
It just becomes a 4.8L-stock 4.8L pistons and rods and crank
8720 is now sold as 8720 R1 . Since your other test Ive installed 5 of them
I noticed that, but looking at the cam cards... I don't see what they changed between the old 8720 and the R1. Some of the other grinds, I see a slight change in duration numbers.
have you installed it in a 5.7L or bigger by any chance? Any dyno numbers? I would love to see some. Considering this cam for my 04 gto with the 5.7L ls1.
Everybody needs to experience over camming a motor at least once in their life. Having flashbacks to a big cammed 273 ... Back when you saw 300+ advertised duration
The specs on the sloppy best and summit 8720 are close how do feel the sloppy best would do or the regular truck Norris would do
a 219 cam is good size for a 4.8l unless you have a converter
ok so what's the best cam for stock stall converter for the 4.8 with the most hp added?
depends on what you will be willing to put up with
28s dream team members now
Have a 04 2500hd 6.0. Looking for more power for towing RV . Stock motor with 317 heads. 150k miles runs great, what would u recommend
Boost. Seriously. Put a set of valve springs in it, and either a turbo or a roots blower.
or 706 heads and small cam
Will a lsa blower work on a 408 stroker…the forums say its to small….just looking for 700/800hp
yes it will work, better if ported and you will need to spin it up
@@richardholdener1727 thank you sir….i will always trust your word rather than an army of primadonna keyboard warriors…..i already got a 2.45” pulley installed…currently the blower is on my 370” lq9…its a 11.2:1 motor and i have to add boostane to it everytime i fill it up with crappy ca. 91….if not it will sound like a bag of marbles when i get into boost ….so the boostane keeps the marbles at bay…..i have another 6.0 tucked away on standby but i pulled the trigger and ordered a forged 408 assembly….with my 68cc lsa heads it will be at around 9.8:1 cr……which should be safe for 91 considering my ctsv is 9.1:1 and does fine on 91……but this is on my nova that is in the pic…the ctsv is stock other than a tune…..i do have a vortech v-3sci on the 4.8 in my swapped ‘73 c/10….do you think im better off putting the 408 into that and just swapping the heads on my nova to bring the compression down…i have a extra set of 823 (L96) heads laying around rather than using the offshore 64cc chamber LS3 style heads that im currently running..that i actually have 2 sets of, one of which that have never been ran…im really thinking of pulling them and posting them up for sale…they are great heads if you were just going N/A and needed a jump in compression…but in my situation as my builds progressed i always wanted more and threw boost into the mix……so i ordered a brand new set of LSA heads when i got the rotating assembly from summit and actually had the 823’s laying around from when i rebuilt the spare 6.0 (L96) both of which i believe are 68cc chambers….when the 370” comes out of the nova and the 408” goes in im considering putting the L96 (6.0) into the c/10 and pulling the 4.8 so i can install the crank out of the 370” and make it into a flat top hi compression 5.3…those motors are fun and sip gas compared to the 4.00”+ bore of a 6.0+ motor…..sorry for the long rant i just wanted to spill my thoughts to someone that actually has the right answers….lastly…will an ASA cam be fine in the 6.0 that has a centrifugal vortech supercharger…..i really love the way that cam chops….if it were upto me id put it in the 408 as well with the positive displacement LSA blower but i know that probably wouldnt be a wise choice…currently the LSA 370” has a cam motion stage 3 ls3 cam (220/230-.558”/.558”-117+4) it replaced the ASA cam that i had in there because it stunk up the house whenever i started the car which stayed parked in the garage, my wife hated it…when i put the cam motion cam in it was much better and she was happy….it didnt chop as much but oh well…it worked awesome for N/A cam….and even worked well when i added the LSA blower……i just dont think it will do so well on a 400+ cu in motor….correct me if i am wrong…ultimately id like to use the ASA cam on the vortech centrifugal supercharged 6.0 …if not it will go into the N/A 5.3 that will be sitting on standby
Have the Jegs ss2 cam in the engine stand 5.3 and thinking I have the wrong cam
Work around it, I believe in you
Add gearing and stall. High stalls are no problem to drive on the street with modern technology.
You will love the top end power with that cam!
I would also go with the LSX intake manifold and not a High Ram.
@@RealJohnnyGuillotine I probably should have bought the stage 3 when I had the chance. Thanks for the motivation though 👍
@@bri-manhunter2654 thank you for the recommendations. I cannot afford that lsx intake though. I like the looks of the high ram but I don’t believe that’s an option as I don’t intend to go that high in the rpms
Pfft. Runs good in my truck. 3000rpm converter and it rips! Or slippin if you're driving a stick.
Would the torque cam work with stock LY5 valve springs?
are those 550 lift?
@@richardholdener1727 I’m not sure. I know it has the truck 243’s on it tho..
every stock 243 head I have seen has the 550 springs on it
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks
Would a STOCK GTO LS2 6.0 cam kill low torque in a stock 4.8?
yes-see the 5.3l ultimate stock cam video
@richardholdener1727 thank ya sir.
So if you want your 4.8 to perform like a stock 5.3, the BTR torque cam is apparently a good choice haha.
still way down on low speed torque
I have a 4.8 with a Torque Cam installed in a 68 GM A-body wagon. I have a stock 700r4 behind it. The engine is (carbureted) this is for daily driving. Should I consider say a 2500 stall converter? Would MPG take much of a hit?@@richardholdener1727
234/239 | .615”/.610” | LSA112+2 is my cam specs and I was told it’s too much cam for my 4.8l so in that case what should I do ?
that is very big-I have smaller cams avail
@@richardholdener1727so what could I do if im not wanting to swap my cam ?
At some point why my truck it drives like stock ?
Is it bigger than the factory one or smaller than the factory
all three were bigger than stock as shown
What about advancing or retarding the cam?
A lot of aftermarket cams come with advance already ground in
Now I want to see a 14:1 4.8 with the same ls9 cam
just adds power everywhere-but same lack of power down low
@@richardholdener1727. I was about to say the same thing sir!
Rules for fast street cars, you won't beat a guy if you copy his combination, unless you have a liter car.
Don't over cam your engine. Just cause he says it worked great in his engine.
Never start a project unless you have All the money and parts.
Don't soak money into a project unless you are somewhat of an engine guru.
Don't think you know alot about engines unless you are getting older. And I'm 53. I'm older.
Don't think your going to have a 9 second car just by camping an engine.
Don't tell other guys what your running. Cam size, motor size, gear ratio etc.
Try to drop your new engine in a car that's not a major project. It will take too long to finish.
Don't go too far over budget.
There's no such thing as good used racing pistons rods. Fatigued life matters.
Don't exceed the known limits of a stock block. 600 hp for modified stock small blocks in most cases and about 1000 for
No such thing as having a cam too big..it's just that your stall is too small..
#WRONGCAM. AGAIN!
Personally I blame squirrels....... yip
This was mildly funny the first time but maybe it's time to shift to more relevant comments instead of rushing to be first. Just saying
@@thetruthspeaker1978 😂😂 thanks for taking the time out of your day to help me out 😂😂😂 , I'll be here every single time with or without your support