Is this why shooting feels off in CS2?

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ม.ค. 2025

ความคิดเห็น • 1.5K

  • @MrMaxim
    @MrMaxim  ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Valve addressed this in todays update!

    • @TheDanishBully
      @TheDanishBully ปีที่แล้ว +4

      so when are you gonna update your video?

  • @willn4129
    @willn4129 ปีที่แล้ว +1738

    watched, this honestly feels very accurate to my experience where something feel off about shoot but the hit reg is great

    • @ChrisBrown-ir6sf
      @ChrisBrown-ir6sf ปีที่แล้ว +53

      Average PRO players reaction time is 200 ms. The 128 had a 7ms delay, So it was 30 times faster than your reaction time and you prolly missed 1 kill out of hundreds cause of 128 tick, Now subtick will make sure you kill 1 more guy in 100 duels but with the cost of unsatisfying gunplay and horrible spray, L or W ?

    • @mgahq
      @mgahq ปีที่แล้ว +112

      @@ChrisBrown-ir6sf L because you would feel that constantly something is off but if they fixed that issue it would be 2xW

    • @ChrisBrown-ir6sf
      @ChrisBrown-ir6sf ปีที่แล้ว +14

      @@mgahq Yes if they make animation tickless like Shooting, Without it Its a meh game. Nothing can change my opinion, it's a fundamental flaw which can't be played for years.

    • @peevan
      @peevan ปีที่แล้ว +40

      @@ChrisBrown-ir6sf Definitely an L, inconsistency and visual delay is one of the first things you should avoid when creating a competitive esports title. the most important parts of a shooter like CS is the split second decision making and mechanics you have to do in a gunfight. If there is visual delay, clutter, input lag, and inconsistency it jeopardizes
      the integrity of the competitive aspect of the game.

    • @emilg2075
      @emilg2075 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      ​@@ChrisBrown-ir6sf Where did you get the idea that the average pro player's reaction time is 90ms? It's extremely wrong

  • @bloo7570
    @bloo7570 ปีที่แล้ว +775

    The absolute dedication of CS players to examine stuff like this that we all notice and break it down to make it explainable for us and fixable for Valve will never cease to amaze me. It really makes me super hopeful for the final product of CS2. Watched.
    Edit: Can you guys please stop arguing about Valorant in the replies? We get it, it took a lot from CS. But it has nothing to do with this comment or video. If you've nothing nice or constructive to say about it, let it be. We don't need to bring it up all the time to prove that we are "better'. Because if anything, it achieves the opposite for us.

    • @DonnyZaZa
      @DonnyZaZa ปีที่แล้ว

      cs & melee autists have done more for society than entire govts

    • @orangepie2128
      @orangepie2128 ปีที่แล้ว

      Least schizophrenic cs player😂

    • @ditz3nfitness
      @ditz3nfitness ปีที่แล้ว +28

      CS PLAYER > VALORANT PLAYERS

    • @Pixote420
      @Pixote420 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      totally agree! Great Video @MrMaxim!

    • @budgetking2591
      @budgetking2591 ปีที่แล้ว

      Videogame players < Real life players@@ditz3nfitness

  • @Summanis
    @Summanis ปีที่แล้ว +487

    Watched. This would explain why people say sprays feel off. Your spot in the spray would be slightly ahead of where you see yourself in the animation/when you think you started shooting. Sub-tick seems pretty awesome so far and I wouldn't be surprised to see it become a new gaming norm.
    CS has one of the most nit-picky communities around. It's good that sub-tick is starting here because we'll probably find most every bug and quirk of it before years end.

    • @joostfloot5279
      @joostfloot5279 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      That would make so much sense! I've such a difficult time spraying, looking forward to the fix that's most definitely gonna come eventually.

    • @tehjamerz
      @tehjamerz ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@joostfloot5279the fix is removing subtick

    • @MrFlejon
      @MrFlejon ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I think it's all placebo effect. The spray has slightly more spread, but overall, the shooting doesn't feel weird. It maybe felt weird if you had 4k hours but for everyone else, it felt less weird than csgo.
      Idk why people pretend that csgo was some golden standard. I started playing a year ago so I don't have a strong bias towards it. And csgo felt like dogs hit for the first 500hours.
      I think what is happening is cs player are exposed to a real engine for the first time and are thrown off by how much better it is.
      I have a friend that is godlike at generic fps like cod or battlefield. He kinda sucked at cs because of all the weird mechanics. Played cs2 and got ranked 12k because all his shot would connect.
      Csgo mechanics were actually crap

    • @Dozla78XD
      @Dozla78XD ปีที่แล้ว +35

      @@MrFlejon Both shooters you mentioned have aim assist and have completely different mechanics to csgo. It's like saying that a f1 driver is going to be good at driving a truck.
      He's hitting shoots in cs2 becasue they made weapons a lot more acurate while running,. Which IMO is just a stupid change that's probably going away in a couple months after release when they start loosing more veteran players from it than noobies are coming

    • @710bren
      @710bren ปีที่แล้ว +19

      @@MrFlejon how do you say so much but nothing at the same time

  • @iNSAN1TYCS
    @iNSAN1TYCS ปีที่แล้ว +218

    i think a good fix for this issue would be to change the firing animations from being server sided to being client sided instead, it would make more sense and wouldnt cause the issue of it being out of sync because since firing would be client sided it doesnt rely on a tick, it just relies on input from your mouse

    • @АлександрНеделькин-е8щ
      @АлександрНеделькин-е8щ ปีที่แล้ว +7

      That's exactly my first thought

    • @tylermartin6516
      @tylermartin6516 ปีที่แล้ว +47

      The potential issue with this is then you get worse hit reg feeling when you die first as for you it will still shoot. Its the same non-zero ping issue as other games and quite normal. would be an improvement. No reg is better than an out of sync clientside

    • @jimleoromines8114
      @jimleoromines8114 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      if that's the case, there's gonna be scenarios when you shot your awp first but then you still die

    • @iNSAN1TYCS
      @iNSAN1TYCS ปีที่แล้ว +11

      @@tylermartin6516 i get your point, but the thing is since subtick remembers if you actually hit somebody, if you click and you’re on somebody, it shouldn’t be an issue with desync and etc, there might be a few scenarios where that issue happens but i think very few

    • @Luper1billion
      @Luper1billion ปีที่แล้ว +20

      In fighting games theyre starting to standardize rollback netcode where people are willing to experience the occasional millisecond fakeout if it means their buttons are registering

  • @MrMaxim
    @MrMaxim  ปีที่แล้ว +537

    Just wanna make this clear again - Take this information with a grain of salt. There's always room for more clarity and maybe even some corrections down the line. None of this is confirmed by Valve. However, CS2's sub tick mechanics are proven to work already so that's good news in itself.

    • @Youskarumbo
      @Youskarumbo ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Watched: I want to thank you for another great video. The most consistent cs content creator out there. keep it going bro love 💪🏽

    • @DryestViper
      @DryestViper ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Watched but this doesnt explain why when you are spraying your gun even against static targets the spray vanishes

    • @ChrisBrown-ir6sf
      @ChrisBrown-ir6sf ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Worked to make CS feels like an android shooter.

    • @Sujay95
      @Sujay95 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@ChrisBrown-ir6sfoh look! another wannabe know-it-all moaner

    • @ICECOLD_SEAL
      @ICECOLD_SEAL ปีที่แล้ว

      Watched! Alla dina videos såklart ;) Detta är så J*VLA bra förklaring och om dem löser problemet är det ju nice!
      Om dem fixar så att skottet avfyras tidigare så blir det jobbigt, och vad händer om 2 spelare skjuter på EXAKT samma tic, och registreras på nästa, vem dör? :O

  • @KingKong-mp6gj
    @KingKong-mp6gj ปีที่แล้ว +11

    This would explain many oddities about shooting like the sprays not connecting even they are the same as in go or not getting kills because you stopped shooting after the right amount of shots but actually shot one bullet short of a kill.
    I suspect this is not only tied to visuals but audio cues too. You often don't hear defuse or plant sounds in cs2 but other players do. Could also may be be a sync problem between tick and subtick.

    • @rubenbernal7933
      @rubenbernal7933 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah I want to know why spraying feels like shit too

  • @MGNikram
    @MGNikram ปีที่แล้ว +40

    This is what i feel when play cs2. I knew something were off but cant describe more better then your video. TQ

    • @ChrisBrown-ir6sf
      @ChrisBrown-ir6sf ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Subtick is an epic fail. I will always choose 15ms/7ms latency delay in shots than this horrible feeling shooting which feels like phone game

    • @thing4826
      @thing4826 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      I'd rather the shot always registers and the visual is what doesn't rather than both the shot and the visuals being behind.@@ChrisBrown-ir6sf

    • @ChrisBrown-ir6sf
      @ChrisBrown-ir6sf ปีที่แล้ว

      @@thing4826 Not to mention neither subtick will be instant cause you forgetting your ping. So if you get 20 ping in subtick you will get exact 20 ping but 20+extra 7ms ping in 128tick + crisp gunplay. Take one. Do extra 7 makes any difference?

    • @Wavpro
      @Wavpro ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ChrisBrown-ir6sf didn't you watch the video? Clearly it does make a massive difference.

    • @ChrisBrown-ir6sf
      @ChrisBrown-ir6sf ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Wavpro he made it for slow motion ? You play in slow motion ? Show me 1 clip where your bullet missed cause of 128 tick ? even for PROS standard its 9.9/10

  • @instantpartyWTF
    @instantpartyWTF ปีที่แล้ว +5

    This video perfectly explains what we've all been experiencing without knowing what was happening, this makes perfect sense

  • @Ashen75
    @Ashen75 ปีที่แล้ว +224

    Watched. Subtick really made the game far more precise from a technical standpoint, but it's gonna be hard for all of these visual discrepancies resulting from some things being subtick and some things being tickrate-tied to be resolved.

    • @tehjamerz
      @tehjamerz ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Precise??? 1.6 is more precise

    • @digojez
      @digojez ปีที่แล้ว +25

      @@tehjamerz elaborate further

    • @TallGermanGuy
      @TallGermanGuy ปีที่แล้ว

      @@digojezthey can't, they got their opinion from twitter

    • @erisium6988
      @erisium6988 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      they just should make animation a local thing not server dependent so there is no problem with delay. There is no point to make visuals on ur pc and not on server.

    • @SuperJoF
      @SuperJoF ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@digojez we all know he can't. 🤣

  • @roddimonster
    @roddimonster ปีที่แล้ว +5

    This is GREAT, its important to have a person like you making these issues more visible to the community so Valve can work faster, thank you maxim

    • @kc8189
      @kc8189 ปีที่แล้ว

      i don't think that's something they can fix, its just that it explains to people why it does feel weird, cause i felt something off, but it wasn't affecting the gameplay - maybe i'll play it more now

  • @SauteedKhail
    @SauteedKhail ปีที่แล้ว +44

    Great video! If this is truly the case of why it feels different, I am at least glad that if I click a head it will hit

    • @MrMaxim
      @MrMaxim  ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Haha, good point.

  • @Zeazy
    @Zeazy ปีที่แล้ว

    Watched. I read the post and knew this video was gonna be about it. The dedication to research is beautiful.

  • @TolisKarapPlanB
    @TolisKarapPlanB ปีที่แล้ว +75

    Thanks for all the guidance Maximuh! Well, CS 2 still has a long way to go, but all this is so promising. We hope for the best 🙏

    • @alex.104
      @alex.104 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      Lil bro didn't watch the video

  • @michaelplaczek9385
    @michaelplaczek9385 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    It’s an easy fix from Valve, they already have a method to find when you shot via the sub tick system. They just now have to change the animation to play when that happens

  • @aaron-ps7ht
    @aaron-ps7ht ปีที่แล้ว +325

    Im confused as to why the shooting animation would be tied to the tick rate in the 1st place. Only thing I can imagine is that as the server still only updates the game state every tick that they want to make sure that a firing animation is only played if you actually had a chance to shoot (aka make sure you weren't dead on another players screen)

    • @solitary200
      @solitary200 ปีที่แล้ว +27

      Animation state is associated with an entity in a snapshot.

    • @rogerelzenga4465
      @rogerelzenga4465 ปีที่แล้ว +72

      because that's how games work....

    • @aaron-ps7ht
      @aaron-ps7ht ปีที่แล้ว +28

      @@rogerelzenga4465 yea ngl I hadn't thought it through properly. The longer I think about it the harder it seems to integrate, without a tick system. In my defense I just woke up😅.

    • @m.n.s.s2825
      @m.n.s.s2825 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      Valve could very well make CS2 a 64 tick like CSGO and it would still make less noise compared to their subtick is making now. The game feels off, The spray is off. For the cost of what ? I never seen any pros even asked for that fancy tickless shooting. They prolly did it to make it sound amazing and revolutionary to get all the praise but surely its now backfiring.

    • @solitary200
      @solitary200 ปีที่แล้ว +67

      @@m.n.s.s2825 just need to tune it

  • @clikcy_
    @clikcy_ ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Just watched it and this explains why my flicky awp playstyle just somehow, sometimes, just misses. Good video.

  • @proshot7152
    @proshot7152 ปีที่แล้ว +180

    this is mind blowing how much effort they are putting to make this game better im so excited for the full release btw watched

    • @carlbrenston8436
      @carlbrenston8436 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      they didn't :(

    • @SatQed
      @SatQed ปีที่แล้ว

      Sound man, sound sucks

    • @thejoyofcreation3307
      @thejoyofcreation3307 ปีที่แล้ว

      Idiot actually thought Valve would do their job right.

    • @nmhjjp
      @nmhjjp ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@carlbrenston8436they did, but the tism doesnt let you see it :(

    • @Byoasis1
      @Byoasis1 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@carlbrenston8436 valorant still better :D

  • @herald1953
    @herald1953 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    the amount of effort from the community to discover this is the reasons why i love valve's games

  • @atre7940
    @atre7940 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    For some reason this serverside presicion only seems to apply to onetaps, pistols/deagle that seem really op in cs2. At the same time u can spray at someone almost point blank and get 2 hits out of 10 bullets, Sometimes server decides to be precise other times exactly the opposite. Hope they figure it out before the official release.

  • @BeastyBundy
    @BeastyBundy ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Watched: They could definitely make the fire animation sync, and probably will, they most likely assumed it wouldn’t have that big of a gameplay effect

  • @lukasklupfel2927
    @lukasklupfel2927 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    watched. This makes a lot of sense. I always felt like the hit reg is so much better and the sprays are the same but thought that the odd feeling comes from the viewmodel values. Turns out it's not the the viewmodels but the animations but they are displayed via the viewmodels, so I was kind of in the right direction. I suppose it's not as easy a fix as to trigger the animation client sided immediately, otherwise Valve would have done it already months ago before the limited test. Let's just hope someone really smart comes up with a good solution.

    • @pierrotA
      @pierrotA ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The more I think about it, the more it seem impossible to solve without adding worst problems...
      What people fail to understand is that the tick is not only for the server, it's how a game update each frame.
      The client still use tick for each frame... The only difference is that servers generally have fixed tick-rate, when clients or local games have variable tick-rate based on the FPS.
      In short, if you move the animation entierely client-side the offset will be dependent on your FPS, creating a very large advantage for thoses that have better machines.
      In addition you will have roll-back problems (you shoot but you were already dead, you shoot but in fact you are already recharging, etc).

  • @hadziun994
    @hadziun994 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Watched, this would explain some of the flicks in csgo where you shoot and then flicking, killing a player that wasn't originally in your shot. This eliminate that.

  • @faite
    @faite ปีที่แล้ว +26

    watched, this actually makes a lot of sense as to why pistols feel inconsistent and smgs feel more consistent - slower firerate guns will make this effect more noticable, whereas higher firerate guns can almost mask the fact there's a slight disconnect

    • @oleksandrmarkovichenko5774
      @oleksandrmarkovichenko5774 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Emmm... Like opposite. In terms of pistols - you will not see any difference in animation behavior between cs2 and csgo. The only difference is that in cs2 the shots will be calculated more precise, and "if you aim at the enemy on your screen" - it will count as a hit. But with high rate firearms, when you spray - what you see on the screen is not what actually have been shot, because animation and calculation are desynched is cs2 (which wasn't the case in csgo)

  • @Omkar_Rangole
    @Omkar_Rangole ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This video explained very well, I didn't understand the sub tick system well by watching other videos, nice explaination!

  • @user-mm5dr1lk3v
    @user-mm5dr1lk3v ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Watched. I guess thats why spraying is difficult in cs2. We control the recoil based on the animations of the bullets being fired. If animation doesnt line up it could mean the actual spray might even be whole bullet ahead of the animation based on which we compensate.

  • @swagboyyy
    @swagboyyy ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Watched. Subtick is neat, but imo it's not production ready until the animations are able to be synced up.
    Game feel is the most important thing when playing a video game, so it doesn't matter how accurate subtick is, if it feels worse for the player, then it is worse.

  • @Skyliner_369
    @Skyliner_369 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I think, hilariously, the simplest answer would be, well, to have the client side firing animation be, well, instant. Sure, your team mates will see your firing tick synced, but you yourself will have the muzzle flash and visuals the frame you click, improving the feel of the firing response. after all, the firing animation is there to help you really 'feel' how the gun acts. this might even help with non-tick-synced fire rates.

    • @hkiajtaqks5253
      @hkiajtaqks5253 ปีที่แล้ว

      Sometimes the player dies after I stop firing and turn around. The lag is very noticeable sometimes. It is too out of whack.

  • @young7783
    @young7783 ปีที่แล้ว

    Saw some videos on this Delay topic but wasn't really satisfied with some of the explanations, so I'm glad you stepped in the clear things up. This actually makes sense, ty

  • @ntariku
    @ntariku ปีที่แล้ว +33

    Watched. I have hope that these issues will be resolved and cs2 will be even bigger success than csgo

    • @m.n.s.s2825
      @m.n.s.s2825 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      It will be amazing if they make the animations as fast as the shooting, It gonna be better than 128 if that happens

    • @MrMaxim
      @MrMaxim  ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Both of you are expressing my thoughts exactly

  • @big_nickos5609
    @big_nickos5609 ปีที่แล้ว

    watched, want to say thankyou for the ongoing content re cs2

  • @HyperCS2
    @HyperCS2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I don't think people will ever stop complaining unless they get 128-tick servers coz it has been wired in our minds that it is the only solution. More apparent from Valorant and faceit's servers.

  • @hov2435
    @hov2435 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    watched. An easy way to fix this is if they make CS2 process the gun shot animation locally, as opposed to waiting for server command or for the next tick to arrive. As soon as a mouse click is registered, the game can immediately render the gun firing so if a shot hits, there's no delay, if it doesn't, it will just look like you miss your shots without affecting the logic of the game, as least not for the person shooting.

    • @kefkef5
      @kefkef5 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah, running the animation on the client should be straightforward without affecting all the other physics calculations of the game. The one downside is that the person getting killed might not even see the animation happening on their screen. Or when they move into cover during the same tick as the shot, the advantage will always be the one making the shot.

  • @jonald4784
    @jonald4784 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Watched, great vid! Seems to me like solving this "problem" without reverting back to what we have in csgo would be difficult, but I'm hopeful they can fix it anyway!

  • @NaufalHerma
    @NaufalHerma ปีที่แล้ว

    Watched and again your content makes me understand CS2 better after playing it, GGs

  • @akhiilgupta
    @akhiilgupta ปีที่แล้ว +3

    That is also the reason why we see more responsiveness in 128 ticks as compared to 64 tick in the sub tick system. If valve optimises it then 64 tick vs 128 tick may not be an argument in the near future.

  • @Greg2fram
    @Greg2fram ปีที่แล้ว +9

    As a gamedev, I highly doubt that animations are triggered server-side, especially with a sub-tick system that allows to shoot at any time.

    • @evlad7238
      @evlad7238 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      animations are obviously triggered client side, but it could be waiting for the next server tick before showing the animation to be in sync, idk

    • @FloIstMoep
      @FloIstMoep ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Why would you want to sync that? The weapon animation that the client sees is only relevant for the client.

    • @Kaizagade
      @Kaizagade ปีที่แล้ว

      @@FloIstMoep im going to guess due to sound effects? As thats a huge thing in counter strike. Gives away positions and if thats delayed it could be the difference between getting the kill or being killed

    • @DR-54
      @DR-54 ปีที่แล้ว

      They probably synced the animations to the server tickrate because in csgo, the bullets would also be synced to the server tickrate and it would produce a more accurate experience and guns would feel way better and more responsive this way. Then, in cs2, they forgot to remove the animation delay and now everyone can't spray for shit.
      In simpler terms, csgo had the exact opposite issue where the animation would play before the bullet fired. They fixed this by syncing them to the tickrate. When moving to cs2, they forgot to stop syncing them to the tickrate. Thus, we are having the exact same problem years later. This time, it's due to the fix to the last problem.

    • @Greg2fram
      @Greg2fram ปีที่แล้ว

      @@DR-54 Even sincing the animation to the tickrate in CS:GO sounds crazy to me.
      You want a game to be reactive. The time between the click and the action on screen has to be the lowest possible.
      The hits registering on the server are a different matter, and that's were we have those 64 checks per second (are you hitting that guy, or not?).
      If I had to guess, people sometimes miss on CS2 because everything is slightly different, and those difference added up make them miss the first bullet, or their spray timing.

  • @mischol
    @mischol ปีที่แล้ว +1

    totally agree, what i also really dont like is shooting after being hit with a nade. idk why but it just feels wrong to shoot without any type of noise to go with the shot (even if you where to only hear your own shots dampened)

  • @keshav_c17
    @keshav_c17 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Nice research man. It seems about right. Now I am able to understand the sub-tick concept much clearer than before (depending upon the accuracy of this research). Let's hope Valve has some solution to this. It will be amazing if Valve figures out a way to tackle this. 🤞

    • @Oliver_bohman
      @Oliver_bohman ปีที่แล้ว +1

      yea. this is pissing me off, and the dude in the video said it was good. its more "accurate" but at the same time NOT accurate at all. hitboxes and subtick is fucked in CS2 just copy everything, Movement. Aiming. flicking. jumping. and so on from CSGO imo

  • @andreiserde9441
    @andreiserde9441 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you so much for keeping us up to date with all the developments.
    Watched.

  • @drScorp1on
    @drScorp1on ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Watched. Wonderfully well explained, top production quality. Having both actions in sync would be great.

  • @piranhaman1044
    @piranhaman1044 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Don’t know why it took so long for people to figure this out.

  • @Reggy-TV
    @Reggy-TV ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Watched and loved it! Great research by everyone involved, and thank you for compiling, distilling, furthering the research, and spreading the word! :) I have some thoughts on this and would like to share them to see if any sound applicable / realistic.
    So, to clarify my understanding of subtick and its relation to this situation, as MrMaxim explains in the video, the subtick is tracking the exact sub-second moment that the shot is registered on the client side, and waiting for the next server-tick to register that information. This delay, from my understanding (could be wrong, of course), applies to both the registration of the shot (ie, server registers and displays player dead if you shot while they were in your crosshair), as well as the shot animation. I believe this is exemplified in the way the enemy character continues to walk, even on client side, while it waits to receive confirmation that there are no conflicting actions that happened before that millisecond that could negate it.
    POSSIBLE SOLUTION:
    I suggest merely switching the animations / sounds of gunfire to a client side action, similar to the way the sounds of switching your weapons is neither broadcasted to or from the server. I believe this option is likely something valve has already or is currently still considering, and maybe they were just waiting for the cs2 server infrastructure and interp settings to be at a more reliable place before doing this. It's hard to speculate on that side of things, however, I do believe that switching it to client side is a good long term solution. No matter how you slice it, with the subtick system being the route, there will be delay or backtraces on some end, to account for conflicting outcomes etc, but their are similar drawbacks to the old system as well, so im fine with them working to iron this one out. Having the sound on the client side would remove the audio / visual delay that feels so disjarring for the shots. Everyone on the server will still get aggregated events for all subtick events that happen on other clients, since, to our current knowledge of the system, it's still registering and transmitting the subtick information back and forth to the clients via 64 ticks. Hopefully there are no obstacles that make this solution unfeasible. Please let me know if you have any thoughts on this :)
    I appreciate that valve is taking the time to work on the server related settings / defaults for in game (interp updates recently), as well as work out kinks in the finer details of the game / server to get it to be polished

    • @_tobii
      @_tobii ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Very well said. One thing to keep in mind is that backtrack or rollback synchronization is very hard to get right in netcode, especially in some like CSGO, where so much can actually happen in one tick, on the server and in every client. That being said, they did get subtick implemented, so who knows

  • @usem_and_losem937
    @usem_and_losem937 ปีที่แล้ว

    watched, I think my muscle memory is so built out from cs go that I feel like i'm missing all my shots.

  • @blueberrybraam
    @blueberrybraam ปีที่แล้ว +20

    Watched. Does this mean the firing animation is rendered server-side? If so; is it a possible solution to make the animation client-side? You would see the animation on "click" which would fix the weird feeling when shooting. They just have to sync the weapon handling on tick-basis to make it competitively viable and prevent issues with guns showing to enemies while it doesnt look that way on you own screen.

    • @pudgebooster
      @pudgebooster ปีที่แล้ว +8

      then you would have a delay between shooting and enemy dying because deaths are processed server side.

    • @tekno47
      @tekno47 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      no, its client side already. and @pudgebooster there already is a delay between shooting and enemies dying, its just so small on low ping you dont notice it

    • @aaron-ps7ht
      @aaron-ps7ht ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Nope the animation is for sure only client sided. The server would just waste precious resources. It's not so much that animation is rendered server-side, but the game state is calculated (and verified) by the server. I assume that they only give you the ok to shoot once the server has decided that you shot while you were still alive. But even that I'm not of as hardly anyone has a < 15ms ping. So it might just be that the entire animation rendering process is tied to the tick rate

    • @wazzaaaa05
      @wazzaaaa05 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@tekno47 the firing animation isnt client sided because theres a delay bruh use ur common sense

    • @tekno47
      @tekno47 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      ​@@wazzaaaa05 you realise clients run on ticks too right? stop spreading misinformation when you dont know what you're talking about. go play on a 350 ping server right now and try shooting. there's no delay (apart from whats shown in this video)

  • @HTK9325
    @HTK9325 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    watched, now i can understand why the spraying feels of but tapping feels good if they are able to fix this so the tap and animation happen in the same moment(tick) this would be game changing

    • @SNOOWGOOSE
      @SNOOWGOOSE ปีที่แล้ว

      I personally felt that tapping is more natural than the spraying while gamin’ too, and this was the base issue of that problem.

  • @alphawolf6708
    @alphawolf6708 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Watched
    Yeah i feel like the visual factor is just that final brick in the wall that needs to be added/fixed in order for the foundation of CS2 to be perfect. That, and better performance on CPUs post 2013.
    Its also interesting to see how many players, including myself, can somehow feel even the slightest delay/offset in the timings of everything too.

    • @dodu-zi8bd
      @dodu-zi8bd ปีที่แล้ว

      How could they fix the visual factor ? Shooting isn't tied to tickrate and the visual factor is tied to tick rate. There is an unavoidable 15.625 ms delay on 64 ticks that is not possible to remove.
      They wanted to make 64 tick subtick better than 128 tick and made 128 tick even more necessary

    • @alphawolf6708
      @alphawolf6708 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@dodu-zi8bd Dont ask me, im not a software expert or game dev.
      But we know that if the disappearance of tracers can alter the feeling of the game by a lot, a very VERY small factor like the animations not being in sync with the tickrate could still heavily change the handling of weapons in game.
      Lets just see how valve does it though. Their fix streak is getting good.

  • @pedropinto5923
    @pedropinto5923 ปีที่แล้ว

    I never comment on videos but props to you man, this video was the only one that actually explained whats going on.

  • @SarthakSPyt
    @SarthakSPyt ปีที่แล้ว +7

    There's a guy on youtube that did a circle flick test on csgo and cs2 with all guns and he found that if you are moving your mouse when shooting, the shot goes first before the mouse crosshair. So if you do a 360 and shoot and stop immediately, for that he used a bind and script in cs2, but if you do that, then the shot bullet hole will appear first and the crosshair will exceed it moving forward. This video explains why that happens.

    • @Ashen75
      @Ashen75 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Yeah, the shot gets registered at a subtick level and shoots instantly (as it should), but your crosshair movement is way too frequent to reasonably be sent to the server at a subtick level so it will still be moving during the remaining milliseconds after the subtick was processed, and end up at a separate place from where you shot once the next tick arrives. It's basically like subtick removed the tick-rate based input delay that we're all used to experiencing which makes things far more precise but causes weird situations like this to happen due to how shooting and movement are separate from the tickrate system while crosshair position is still tied to the tickrate.

    • @AlbertWesker_GOAT
      @AlbertWesker_GOAT ปีที่แล้ว

      In csgo when flicking the left click is pressed when the crosshair is exactly on the head, not before. Definitely in my opinion CS2 is not really accurate.

    • @Kaizagade
      @Kaizagade ปีที่แล้ว

      the keybind stops the spinning and clicks at the same time, so therefore the shot is where you stopped, so the bullet shouldnt be behind the corsshair@@Ashen75

    • @Ashen75
      @Ashen75 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@AlbertWesker_GOAT Cursor movement is still being fully processed at a client-side level so if you really clicked on the head from your perspective, as long as latency interpolation issues don't occur you will hit your shot. The server won't show that you were aiming at the head and the VOD probably also won't show it since VODs record things from the server's perspective, but as long as it happened from your client-side perspective, your game will use the sub-tick system to tell the server that the shot happened at the exact point it was from your perspective, and it will register it as a hit.

    • @AlbertWesker_GOAT
      @AlbertWesker_GOAT ปีที่แล้ว

      @jjh75 And what's latency interpolation? It has something to do with my internet speed and ping?

  • @FortabtGaming
    @FortabtGaming ปีที่แล้ว

    watched. i really like that you go in depth with this.

  • @pyrofrek
    @pyrofrek ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Yeah subtick is really cool, just Valve needs to polish it a bit more and there we go

  • @amirhas191
    @amirhas191 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Thanks for the video, Max! Now can you do a video on why CS2 spray feels weird as well? Because it felt inconsistent and needs to pull mouse down more compare to CSGO

    • @rahulahl
      @rahulahl ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Depends on the gun. My main gun is MP7, and I dont get what all others are saying is "wrong feeling" about the shooting.

    • @ZajebisteJakPojebane
      @ZajebisteJakPojebane ปีที่แล้ว

      @@rahulahl "my main gun is MP7" xDDDDD that's the reason, you're probably in Silver.

    • @rahulahl
      @rahulahl ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ZajebisteJakPojebane ​ 1) I dont know what the point of that argument is? Here I am providing a data point from the POV of a MP7 user so OP can help figure out if its a weapon based issue or game based issue. And you are trying to make it out as if the opinion of a silver player does not matter?
      2) I usually hover between MGE-LE. Once in a blue moon, I touch LEM, but my reactions are simply not what they were and I'm probably never gonna get a higher rank because I just don't have the drive to push myself. This is just a game where I hang out with my mates and have fun. In the past, I used to be SMFC. And yes, that was me using XM and MP7 back in the day.

  • @xqdbpx
    @xqdbpx ปีที่แล้ว

    watched, idk how to say this, but ffs i love your videos! vice man with real sources of how things work! i live for this game and you just give me real pristine content about it! thank you !

  • @bnhm1871
    @bnhm1871 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the shooting animation was instantaneous and done locally, wouldn't there be a delay before the enemy is killed (since this would be calculated server side, and on the next tick)? Maybe it would be small enough to not really notice.

    • @pudgebooster
      @pudgebooster ปีที่แล้ว +4

      yes you are correct! and don't forget about ping, so the delay would be even longer than a tick duration.

    • @tekno47
      @tekno47 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      theres already a delay if you have ping

    • @mitchg93
      @mitchg93 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@tekno47 No shit Sherlock... latencies stack together, so we try to minimize each of them at an individual level.

    • @tekno47
      @tekno47 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@mitchg93 what? shooting animations are already done locally, the only delay is the subtick issue shown in this video. and because it's already local, there is already a delay before enemies are killed. i'm not saying don't fix the issue in this video, i think it would be a great fix to have shooting animations start as soon as you click. i'm just saying that there's already a delay before enemies are killed, just with ~30 ping you can't notice it so it looks like there isn't any.

  • @autotv1969
    @autotv1969 ปีที่แล้ว

    Watched. Thank you for this analysis, I hope you have a wonderful Fall!!

  • @Joke89ful
    @Joke89ful ปีที่แล้ว +3

    watched, i think your explanation is on point . I am more worried about cheater situation , can you make video about that (what has been promised and what to expect from valve in this matter) ? thanks for good content , keep up the good work !!!

  • @zTPure
    @zTPure ปีที่แล้ว

    This is a really great video, it really shows how tickrate works and how CSGO and CS2 registrer the clicks/bullets! Nice job MrMaxim

  • @maxzett
    @maxzett ปีที่แล้ว +4

    It just feels horrible. I don't even think that fixing the firing animation would resolve the issue as the enemy's player model would still move until the next tick and I think that's the thing that throws me off the most personally

    • @HandjobHandsome
      @HandjobHandsome ปีที่แล้ว

      theres no ticks, small brain

    • @Ashen75
      @Ashen75 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Movement is also processed at a subtick level though, so you will still be hitting shots that you were supposed to hit. Any issues regarding enemy movement are mostly a result of latency-based interpolation, which is another issue of its own.

    • @maxzett
      @maxzett ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Ashen75 yea that's not what I meant, but its just super confusing if the subtick already knows you got the kill, yet the player keeps moving until the next tick

  • @reimo7636
    @reimo7636 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    can really feel this when throwing nades

  • @jeron1847
    @jeron1847 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I think you explained completely correct but it’s weird since if you would play the CSGO example 10 times there is a chance that you would hit several shots because the tick is happening like 0.5 ms after your shot thus making it more inconsistent than CS2 where you always hit the shot only the animation is delayed. I’m curious to see what solution Valve comes up with but otherwise I think we just have to get used to it.

    • @MrBa143
      @MrBa143 ปีที่แล้ว

      The problem is you cannot get used to this. The delay varies between 1 ms to 15 ms. If the delay was consistent, then we could get used to it.

    • @jeron1847
      @jeron1847 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@MrBa143 the same happens in CSGO. If you click there is also a delay between 1 and 15 ms when your shot registers and then its not compensated for the moment you clicked (the sub-tick) so the new system is objectively better.

  • @TreuC
    @TreuC ปีที่แล้ว

    Watched. Makes a lot of sense, thanks for the explainer, been racking my brains tryna figure out why gunplay felt so weird!

  • @BeBarnee
    @BeBarnee ปีที่แล้ว

    Watched. This makes total sense now, and I'm happy that this can potentionally be solved!

    • @dodu-zi8bd
      @dodu-zi8bd ปีที่แล้ว

      it can only be solved with high tickrate

    • @BeBarnee
      @BeBarnee ปีที่แล้ว

      @@dodu-zi8bd did you understand nothing from the video?? 🤦‍♂️

  • @badeaadrian4529
    @badeaadrian4529 ปีที่แล้ว

    "What you see is kind of what you get" - Vavle

  • @axiomatictugofwar
    @axiomatictugofwar ปีที่แล้ว

    watched, thanks for the great content! i used to watch when you were banana, good to see you are still around making good videos!

  • @MrGatlin98
    @MrGatlin98 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Watched. This is why flicking with an AWP is essentially impossible now. It used to be that you could click and flick at the same time and the crosshair would land on the head as the bullet shot. Now with the precise timing, the moment you click, you "shoot" so the animation may show you on their head but the shot happened way before so you miss. It's more correct this way but the animations need to be synced to the shot.
    ...im sure there's problems with that too. Like maybe killing someone on your screen but the server hasn't caught up so you die to their shot instead. Not sure.

  • @GdotMdot1
    @GdotMdot1 ปีที่แล้ว

    Watched. This truly feels like an accurate description as to why shooting doesn’t quite feel the same. It may look the same, but many of us with the muscle memory of CSGO can just feel that something is off. Off-topic, but I wonder if this is the same case with movement? My friends and I describe it as sometimes it feels like our characters are “sliding on ice.”

  • @ReikiMaulana
    @ReikiMaulana ปีที่แล้ว

    I personally haven't played a lot of CS since 2016 so it didn't actually feel off to me.. But now I'm back and I only knew about this today, thanks for the explanation vid

  • @neptune.8108
    @neptune.8108 ปีที่แล้ว

    ive had several experiences where i peek a corner, see someone who shoots at me, so i go back behind cover, and then die. it feels like im playing with 150ms ping instead of 64tick

  • @SabanLeon
    @SabanLeon ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I honestly dont get why people are complaining... For me the game feels insane in pretty much every aspect. Could do some fps improvements with molos and smokes... The shots when fast flicking as well aka awp feels weird... everything else is amazing

  • @wynn5540
    @wynn5540 ปีที่แล้ว

    watched pog thanks for the very informative video mr maxim, been watching you ever since 2015 and its really cool to see you still in this CS space. much love

  • @n01z3
    @n01z3 ปีที่แล้ว

    can also feel the action and animation registering with nades. pull out a nade and try toss it and switch back to your gun, we always do to save those preciouses milliseconds, often you wont even get passed tossing the nade part of this. always feel i got to wait 120ms or so just to be safe that the nade gets thrown with out being put back in your pocket.

  • @B4SS1L1SK
    @B4SS1L1SK ปีที่แล้ว

    watched.
    Thank you for showing a good example to test subtick, i hope people can actually now understand that subtick works!
    I hope valve can fix it, they still have a lot more to do while the deadline of 'coming this summer is right around the corner'. Tbh let em take their time i dont care about the trolls, as long as the game is good to go. (We dont know what 'good to go' is for the cs2 devs)

  • @off-courseroaming1809
    @off-courseroaming1809 ปีที่แล้ว

    watched, Thank you so much my friend🙃 That was the clearest explanation I've heard yet 👍

  • @notnothaze
    @notnothaze ปีที่แล้ว

    wow ok thats actually really cool because that means if they just sync the animation to the shot being fired on subticks it should feel consistent (like in csgo) while retaining the more accurate subtick hit-reg/shot-reg in CS2. best of both worlds scenario

  • @Ch1llouter
    @Ch1llouter ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for showing it❤ watched it till the end

  • @IdoN_Tlikethis
    @IdoN_Tlikethis ปีที่แล้ว

    this would explain why some pro players have a problem where their shots don't land, especially when doing fast flicks, because in csgo when you flick you essentially have to click before your crosshair is on the head, because the shot will be delayed by up to 15ms, but now in cs2 you actually have to click exactly when you're on the head but it still _looks_ like it's delayed, which makes it unintuitive

  • @844box
    @844box ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Watched. This issue needs to be solved for the full release!

  • @WEQDd11d12ed3
    @WEQDd11d12ed3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The best video on this topic. Really well explained. Watched

  • @IVAN_ENT
    @IVAN_ENT ปีที่แล้ว

    good explanation glad to see sub tick works ,but on another note i saw an in depth vid the other day saying cs2 also has a wildly variable input lag issue also constantly goiing from 5ms up to 30 and constantly changing making it harder to be consistent than csgo which had a much lower variance and was much more steady

    • @dodu-zi8bd
      @dodu-zi8bd ปีที่แล้ว +3

      There's 0 input lag in cs2 if you have watched the video, there's visual response lag because the server runs on 64 tick and processes the input information on the next tick hence the 15.625 ms average delay

  • @j3rrym
    @j3rrym ปีที่แล้ว

    Watched, and this is a great explanation! Thanks for this ❤️

  • @-T1m-CS
    @-T1m-CS ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I think sub tick is better but sometimes there is a noticeable delay before i shoot my gun. The place you notice the most is shooting inferno's bells in a certain pattern repeating it. This is how you feel the most of the delay.

    • @-T1m-CS
      @-T1m-CS ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I don't have telegram

  • @RaimaNd
    @RaimaNd ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Oh lol that's why when I shot on an enemy and turn around to fall back sometimes the enemy dies when I also did a nearly 180° turn. Good to know.
    At the same time this is why many shots miss against enemies who walk from left/right side to the other in CSGO because tickrate makes you miss. Thats why 64 tick sucks.

  • @techjuvas
    @techjuvas ปีที่แล้ว

    Finally someone that understands what subtick is, people keep raging on about 64 vs 128 ticks when it doesn't matter in this case. Subtick is better than 128 tick, but very happy you highlighted the real issue here - animations.

  • @Killoer
    @Killoer 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Noticed more on sprays, and surprisingly pistol round; short delay, but can explain how some shots land and other dont. Then again, Ill still probably say movement and lack of spray control is still a main issue on shots not hitting; but hope they can smooth things out in the future

  • @RaoulLB
    @RaoulLB ปีที่แล้ว

    Good explanation. At least no more missed shots even when you've definitely clicked correctly. Surprising amount of people who have not 'watched' 👀

  • @tylermartinez7725
    @tylermartinez7725 ปีที่แล้ว

    Watched and probably one of the better videos explaining what's going in in sinple terms

  • @larsfinlay7325
    @larsfinlay7325 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    they optimized the game for lan events at the expense of the online player base. cool.

  • @ICECOLD_SEAL
    @ICECOLD_SEAL ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Watched! Alla dina videos såklart ;) Detta är så J*VLA bra förklaring och om dem löser problemet är det ju nice!
    Om dem fixar så att skottet avfyras tidigare så blir det jobbigt, och vad händer om 2 spelare skjuter på EXAKT samma tic, och registreras på nästa, vem dör? :O

  • @Dra1n__TV
    @Dra1n__TV ปีที่แล้ว

    That's why the scout feels so good

  • @ttvDaBeanstalk34
    @ttvDaBeanstalk34 ปีที่แล้ว

    Watched! Another quality video. This makes a lot of sense, maybe a reason spraying feels off as the animation is probably off from when actually firing by the difference between the moment you click and the next tick.

  • @V-XENO
    @V-XENO ปีที่แล้ว

    Watched. There's this with the added fact that the game registers mouse movement vectors and shooting in different ways, which is why shots don't land where you were aiming when you clicked but where the game thinks your crosshair was at such time.

  • @gautamnegi9675
    @gautamnegi9675 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    A separate counter can be implemented for essential animation actions like shooting & jump and then that counter can be synched with hit reg or more specifically action counter which is already present. it makes no sense why firing animation was kept tick rate dependent and only hit reg was made sub tick.

    • @romaliop
      @romaliop ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Probably just developer oversight. I think they've started from everything being tied to the tickrate by default and then especially made some things register on the subtick level. I'd imagine it will be pretty simple to sync the clientside animations to the subtick timings now that people actually realized that's an issue.

    • @gautamnegi9675
      @gautamnegi9675 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@romaliop agreed and fix should be simple one imo.

  • @seventus
    @seventus ปีที่แล้ว

    It's not just the animation, but the mouse movement. Someone did a test where he spun and clicked, and the shots were consistently off due to it not synching with mouse movement...

  • @communistkanna5397
    @communistkanna5397 ปีที่แล้ว

    Watched. I haven't felt anything super off but this definitely would explain the massive amounts of people that do feel something is off.

  • @nk_285
    @nk_285 ปีที่แล้ว

    Watched. Thank you for the explanation, makes a lot of sence now 👍

  • @buzzkilling042
    @buzzkilling042 ปีที่แล้ว

    Now it makes sense why in cs2 you would seemingly miss and still hit a headshot while in csgo you would hit but the game says you didn't hit

  • @mistifye
    @mistifye ปีที่แล้ว

    watched and indeed we should watch yo every videos UPTIL the very end as they’re well explanatory))

  • @dantekiwi7926
    @dantekiwi7926 ปีที่แล้ว

    watched, im loving these type of content

  • @LuizCesarCS
    @LuizCesarCS ปีที่แล้ว +1

    If they could fix only the firing shot of the weapon animation to be synchronized with the mouse click I think would be solved. The other animations and and killtags etc can be registrated on the next tick.

  • @larrilamanosa8526
    @larrilamanosa8526 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This is good. Although not a pleasing experience, this makes it so that missing a shot is 100% your fault and not by a tick. Overtime i believe people will get used to this.