@@grahamreece519 Yeah, I don't want to sound contrarian to the videos point but, clearly we needed one more red flag for that GP, it is unacceptable what happened and how it was just swept under the rug. If the argument is "we've had more red flags now than before" I really just want to answer "Good". Having said that, I do agree with the video's point but rather than omitting red flags, maybe just tweak the rules around standing restarts and/or tire changing.
This is what happens when F1 wants every track to be a street circuit. If someone goes off at Silverstone or Interlagos, their probably not on the circuit. Much easier to VSC or SC if the car is off in the tire wall off the track. Cant have a SC if a car wipes out on a street track and puts debris everywhere and the car isnt recoverable.
IMO, in regards to street circuits. F1 should just say that if you're paying through the nose to get an F1 race in your country, you have to also pay to create an actual track. Jeddah is probably the stupidest case. I'm not quite sure if "no new street circuits" is the best policy, but I really think that F1 should try and reduce them.
@@NovemberOrWhatever Jeddah is (location aside) one of the greatest tracks on the calendar. Overtaking very possible, as well as defending. Exciting to drive, I don’t see your problem with it?
I have to disagree. There should only be certain circumstances that red flags should be deployed. Massive crashes and damages to the safety barriers are an immediate red flag but if there's a driver in the gravel that shot some onto the track then a safety car is perfectly fine since the cars will be slow enough to give them time to clean up properly
@@valkeitos When accidents can be fatal, i'd rather see a red too much than see a driver lose their live. Not saying they are used 100% appropriately at the moment, but the comment you replied to said rather too many than too few, and thats a potential consequence on too few.
Hard disagree, we have one too many red flag in australia, and as a result, another red flag cause by the crash happened as the consequence of that red flag.
@@shansen6969 How are u going to die in these cars? the last tragic time was jules and he hit a fucking 5 ton tractor... Only possibility is car into the side of another like hubert but that isnt preventable with any safety messure other then not driving
Don't forget though that the rolling restart rule for a red flag was introduced in 2004 and not used for the first time until 2007. Plus when this change was made the official description was changed from "Race Stopped" to "Race Suspended" and the restart was not treated as a seperate race as it was before this change, but instead a continuation of the same race. Before 2004 any red flags and then restarts were always a standing start, so I see it as they've just returned back to how it was always traditionally done which is not always a bad thing. Also it was Belgium 2001 not Imola 94 where the last restart after 4 or more laps being completed took place as that was stopped on lap 5 after Burti's accident. It's only because when the standing start was re-introduced there were only 2 drivers on the grid who had been around for the original rules that the fuss was made. At least they got rid of the aggregate race results at the end 1994 because that really was too confusing as the person out front on the track may not have been the leader on the timing screen so it wasn't until everyone finished that the actual result was known. Yes I do think that there are too many now, and maybe sometimes the option of using a rolling restart would be better based on hindsight, especially as the rules say either start type can be used. Let's just wait and see what happens in the future
peters channel is well worth following. sometimes you need a good attention span, but hes funny and very informative. ive been following f1 for over 20 years and im still learning new stuff watching his videos
@@Blueflag04 just curious, is that a popular opinion on tommo? i feel like if you don’t have any issues with josh or peter (in particular) i can’t see how you would have issues with tommo, who qualifies his statements and makes it clear he’s presenting biased opinions far more than most creators. perhaps the issue is his content is more “take” based in nature and therefore he shares his opinion more often, meaning you just prefer more structured or objective content? idk, i just have rarely if ever seen him imply his biased opinion is the only valid opinion. i like them all, so i just found your comment interesting - not trying to disrespect.
After watching the Sebring WEC an IMSA races, F1 looks like it's treating their track marshals as if they only move in slow motion. We have systems in place that slow down cars accordingly so that the cars can, stick to a part of the track, or not have any (realistic) chance of flying off into the marshals doing their work. Some red flags have been justified, but others are a bit silly. Red flags used to be a symbol of "Whoa something really bad has happened, to the point that we can't even have cars slowly roll past it."
I think the marshals have actually been told not to rush and to move slowly. Maybe they've always been told this but over the last several years I feel like I've noticed marshals doing things much more slowly now than in the past. I feel like they used to hustle more so they could clear things as quickly as possible and disrupt the race as little as possible.
And I'm sure that works if there's tons of run off, Marshall's don't need to clear the entire width of the track of debris or gavel, the recovery vehicle doesn't need to be on track and, it's not an incident that wouldn't take multiple slow laps to recover. Oh, and no barrier for a car that goes 200kph+ didn't get destroyed. Then we must ask the question, what's the benefit of actually hard stopping a race vs. slowing? Well, the first is time! I don't need to manage personal or try and coral all drivers and recovery teams to avoid potential issues! Yea, in fact, it can be faster to stop the race and get all the work done without distractions. The second( some might say is more important) slowing down or moving to one side of the track only reduces the chance for an incident. It doesn't eliminate it, and depending on the incident, it doesn't even reduce the chances. There's already 4 measures in place right now to slow cars down. Yellow flags, double yellows, VSC, and Saftey cars, and guess what? In each one, even when drivers are on their best behavior, incidents happen. You can't be the pinnacle of motors sport and then show the world you're willing to gamble with volunteer worker's lives. When a perfectly good viable alternative exists.
I am not a huge Nascar fan but at least they are still keeping to the racing roots in a sense. It's flat out, low tech compared to other motorsports and all about the drivers skill. F1 feels like it has lost it's way and got boring which is why they had to make that netflix show to bring people back. People loved F1 for the strong personalities - the folks who would drive on the bitter edge of disaster and engineers could do what they do best. Now that is all manufactured and neutered by ever-changing miniscule rulings.
As the video pointed out, the first few corners after a standing start is one of the most dangerous times for the drivers. When you call a red flag, there is still some new risk introduced and the fact the FIA hasn't considered restarting races under safety car rather than as a standing start makes me feel that the increase in red flags is being driven by entertainment rather than safety. Especially since their safety is so lacking in other areas like when it took Ocon almost running over a dozen photographers for them to stop letting non essential people into the pitlane before the race has finished.
If F1 and the FIA Want safety then they should replace a VSC with Full Course Yellow and under SC have a Slowzone where the accident is. The fact there is no speed limit in the zone of the incident is more of an incident waiting to happen. For me GTWCE Has the best Safety Regulations followed by NLS (Has no Safety Cars btw)
Big facts, it’s always confused me why they don’t have this. I feel that the current VSC and double waved yellows rules almost encourage the drivers to abuse them in the same way concrete runoffs encourage drivers to go wide or cut the corner after the mildest inconvenience.
The only problem imo is when they do just "for the show", like at this year's Aussie GP or the 2021 Azerbaijan Grand Prix. If done for safety reasons, in case they're truly required (AKA, an accident that's too big for just a Safety Car), I don't see a problem with them. Also, like I saw in another comment, F1's insistence on racing more and more on street circuits such as Jeddah, Miami or Vegas plays a role in the number of red flags going up, as there are barely any runoff areas and, because of that, a car crashing will 99.999999% bring at least out the Safety Car, virtual or physical.
I don't see how Australia '23 red flag was "for the show" when there were literally pieces of debris falling to the spectators and in a high speed part of the track that could cut tyres but what do I know
@@camperosintomate It was an accident whose solution was to end the race under Safety Car. Instead of that, they stopped the race with a Red flag with only a few laps to go to do a "two lap shootout" for the sake of making it end in a Game 7 moment only for it massively backfire and end up in a disaster ending to one of the best races of the year. And not happy with that, they decided to end the whole thing doing a stupid lap under SC (which itself made the 5 second penalty to Carlos Sainz a de facto DQ) because God forbid that a race ends up after a red flag provoked in the first place by race officials trying to put in place a gimmicky ending rather than following the jurisdiction set by Monza last year as well as literally every occasion of this kind pre-Baku 2021.
The big change I think is bigger and faster cars, and more sophisticated barriers. A stack of tyres, sometimes chained together or filled with ballast, is still a stack of tyres. The Tec-Pro barrier has tensioned cables along its length, and it is only effective if all the pieces are put together and the cables are properly tensioned. A misaligned tyre barrier might be 10% less safe, the Tec-Pro will be vastly less safe for subsequent collisions. I don't even mind the red flags that much bc of safety, but the standing starts become a sh*tshow. Red flags bring more chaos and domino effect of furhter red flags.
The main thing I hate about red flags is being able to change tires under red flag conditions. Stroll in Italy 2020 got a podium without making a proper pitstop when the race was actually going because he changed his tires under the red flag and Norris was denied a podium because he changed tires under normal racing conditions. How is that fair?
@@theredguy8746 Why are you talking about Stroll and not Gasly and how he only won because he didn't have to change tyres apart from under the red flag and how Sainz got robbed of the victory.
@@maxb148 Oh, I forgot about that. I guess the reason I remember it happening with Stroll was because I remember Norris complaining about it afterwards.
@@maxb148 you are misremembering the race, Pierre absolutely pitted, he did it right as Magnussen car stopped at the pit entry so he came out before Safety Car was called out and the pit entry closed. The reason he gained so many positions is simply due to everyone else in front but Stroll pitting as soon as the pit lane opened again
There have been too many red flags, but a big part of that is down to double dipping caused by bad restarts for me so I'll propose the following changes: - After 25% race distance, restarts will be rolling restarts. - Once the safety car is coming in, the cars will adhere to a fixed delta VSC style until safety car line 1. Then it's full racing speed and overtaking is allowed once cars pass the finish line. (Hopefully preventing a Mugello style pile up backing the field up) - Tyre changes during a red flag do not count as a pit stop. Won't stop drivers changing them (teams will claim damage etc), but means drivers still need to stop again. - If a safety car becomes a red flag without an additional incident, the order at the restart will be taken from the order at the time the safety car was called. Preventing drivers who pit getting shafted and hopefully reducing order shuffling and allegations of entertainment value coming first
I think they should take this even further - and to say that the two-compound tyre rule doesn't count if either tyre is changed *between an accident occurring* (not just when the safety car is bought out) - so effectively you can change tyres, but not tyre compounds to satisfy this rule.
I like this, but with one addition: F1 are desperate not to have races finish under a safety car, and they're right. I'd add that for the last 15% of the race, the safety car is retired. The options are VSC or red flag. If nothing else, it means that race directors aren't tempted to pull the safety car in early without going through the full procedures so that you get one lap of green flag racing at the end. (Yes, I'm a Hamilton fan, and yes, Max is really really good, but that was a travesty any way you slice it.)
Even though it made for epic TV I still can't believe they threw out a red flag cause of K-Mag's tyre being in the middle of the track. Next time it will be K-Mag's front wing endplate considering they fall off in nearly every race
I love it. It’s like the metaphorical evil stage racing in Nascar but without the faux caution to bring everything to a halt. It gives me time to get up, grab a soda, get hyped up for something even more
one part of this is also the fact there often is like just one bit of debris and they can't manage to remove it for like 6 laps to the point when it would be easy to just send someone to remove it under a yellow flag or vsc...
I have also noticed this. Since I started watching F1 in 2019, I noticed there were more red flags especially starting 2020, but whenever I watched older race highlights from 2017, 18, and 19 there were barely any.
I’m the old guy. People should race. If cars can’t cope with the weather, you’ve built a bad car. If drivers can’t cope with circumstances, you’ve got bad drivers. Of course some instances are so extreme that a red flag is needed. But once a year should do it. Twice in a year would be memorable. This nanny state needs to stop. Grow up. Build better cars, get better drivers. And better won’t mean ‘fast as long as conditions are perfect’. Conditions are bad, deal with it. Get a rally driver, they sure know what to do.
Really I think this is just a question of the standing start/pit under red rules. Other than those 2 things, Red flags and SCs operate the same way, but reds are generally safer. So I think it would make more sense to just highlight those 2 things.
Last Weekend was the 24h-Race at the Nürburgring. On that track (the Nordschleife-part, especially) they don't use safety cars. Car recovery and barrier-fixing is done with "code 60"-zones, where the cars have to slow way down. That might be a way to get slightly less red flags in F1, not just safetycar-use but SLOW safety car use.
I feel like you don't watch F1. There are two safety cars in F1 a fast one and a slow one. The slow one is the one drivers always complain about because of tire temp. It's why there's two safety cars. They also have double waved yellows, which is drop to 40% speed and be prepared to stop that covers and entire sector of the race track.
My take on this is that they throw a red flag because the drivers do not slow down enough when a single a double yellow flag is waved. Jules Bianchi's crash showed this. Catching your competitor is more important than someone's life to most drivers in F1
You are actually halfway right there. It's because the drivers refuse to obey yellow flags and double waived yellow flags that they are very trigger happy with the safety car boards. I would say that a lot of the safety cars could be local double waived yellows. Can't trust the drivers to, I don't know, slow down? I solved that in less than 2 seconds a decade ago. You already have a device on the car that limits the speed of the cars. Make them go through the double waived yellow section under the pit speed limiter. Problem solved. Is that unfair because maybe one driver has to go through 2 times, and one has to go through 3 times. That's easy too. Everyone does the same times through the slow zone. You could end up with cars going really slow for a couple seconds on a green track, but now it's "fair" when really it's supposed to be racing, and sometimes these things happen.
@@Maenfy I generally get triggered at how little the VSC is used. It was brought in for a good reason and it's a good tool but is never fully utilised.
Gasly and a few othwr drivers showed this aswell last year. The SC slowed everyone down when going past the crane but Gasly and a few other drivers i believe just were going too fast with no care in the world for the saftey. Even if you take the crane out of the equation marshals and Sainz car were on the track so people like to complain what if Gasly aquaplaned into the tractor but more like what if he aquaplaned into the marshals without the tractor there.
Exactly, todays red flags were literally another safety car incident on a random race weekend just 10 years ago, so what if there's lots of debris?? a safety car is enough unless major incident happened such as death, too much destruction, weather, or incursions
One thing I can’t understand is why doesn’t race control have a radio to speak to all the drivers at once like what’s used in formula e. This would be particularly helpful in telling the drivers what side of the track to stay on and reduce speed while a car is being recovered on the other side of the track. Now maybe there is this system but it’s something is fans can’t hear on the live feed. For example the Albon red flag in Melbourne could have easily been just a safety car as Albons car was stopped on the side of the track which meant race control could instruct the drivers what side of the track to stay on and the only debris on the track was gravel from his spin which could be swept up by the Marshalls as long as they are give sufficient warning of the safety car pack coming so they can get out of the way and work again. That’s just an example I think of handling the safety car without the need of a red flag thus killing the momentum to get going again.
Josh, to start this, may I give you a suggestion: you must do the vídeo about the '73 Canadian GP and the "Pace Car". That would be awesome! About the vídeo it self: I kinda agree with one the comments I read here. FIA still has the trauma of 2014 Japanese GP (and 2021 Abu Dhabi GP, but for other reasons) and they now use for any junk they see in the track. Formula E had that bad habit, but they now relented it (and they got better on the street circuits).
95% of red flags thrown recently could have been cleaned up SAFELY (for all you OSHA inspectors. OSHA is like "health and safety" in the US for all you non-us people) under a safety car. I would say of them could be cleaned up safely under local waived double yellows if we could get the drivers to you know.... actually pay attention to yellow flags. If you want to be really safe, make them travel through the yellow zone under the pit lane speed limiter if you want to leave no chance for a driver to disobey a yellow flag. The red flag is supposed to be used when the track is blocked. Them being able to gain a free pit stop off of a red flag is just absolutely ridiculous, and yes, I do know why they are allowed to do so now. How about a compromise on that last part. When the red flag is thrown, you can not work on your car unless youve been involved in a minor, secondary accident, and have a broken wing or something like that. No free tire changes though. If you change tires, you drop back 8 spots from where you are, unless you can prove that you cant go out on those tires. Using them until the chords are showing is NOT an acceptable reason either. Im talking 2005 levels of you cant change that tire. Im for safety, i really am. This is a bit much though. Sorry, but the VAST majority of red flags should not be red flags. You know what... No. Im not sorry. There has been far too many red flags lately.
You can bet the F3 support race in Monaco this week is going to be red-flag crazy (30 cars on the grid, there's probably going to be a pile-up either at the start or going into the Grand Hotel hairpin).
5:54 free pitstop is there probably for safety reason drivers with highly used tires at restart could get risky what i would change: bin standing start entirely and allow tyre change during pits but driver will be thrown to last place kinda like with indy where if pitted to closed pitline during caution they would be thrown to rear
If feels like it's a "beyond obvious" answer: safety has improved tremendously, as it should. If more red flags is the result of less people dying, i see no "must be resolved yesterday" issue. What F1 should absolutely change, but it's my opinion, is no free pit stop and (somehow) implement the same time difference as when the red flag was implemented.
People don't die in racing very often, in fact it is pretty damn rare these days, so no, more red flags is not helping that at all. Better tech in the cars is helping that. These folks know and accept the risk associated with driving these cars on the edge - that is the appeal. It has become horribly boring to watch as this sport has been getting neutered by committee and arbitrary rules that change season to season.
2020 Tuscan GP at Mugello, also shows that a rolling restart can end up with as much carnage as a full restart like Australia 2023. I think the main issue is that adidtional safety restrictions (barriers must be perfect, marshalls on track etc) mean that you pretty much have to have a red. Id far prefer a red to see 20-laps of SC/VSC procession while they fix a barrier. Also for a late race flag, the unlapping procedure takes way too long.. what Masi did (though not supported by the rules) was much quicker - so let the lapped cars drop backand just append +1 lap to them (they end up with a slight fuel benefit)
id argue not enough runoff areas or gravel pits so cars get out of the way and arent just left on the circuit, then you can just go for vsc or sc, clean up the gravel and keep going while crew gets the car behind barriers.
@@fourutubez7294 Monaco 2011 was restarted with only 6 laps remaining or something. Only difference is Liberty prefers red flagging the race and restart instead of finishing under SC. Because America, Indy has been doing it for years. And it’s allowed, the rules just stated (prior to 2022) that if a race was passed 75% and was abandoned full points could be awarded. It wasn’t a given that the race should always be abandoned past 75% if a red comes out
theres a similar rule in bike racing (like motogp or world superbikes) where a race won't be restarted if it has passed ⅔ race distance (bearing in mind their races are like 30 to 40 minutes total), its so much better imo, especially in the rain at the ⅔ cut off when everyone is pushing incase it gets red flagged
The sport was losing viewership - it was getting boring and there were no real personalities in the racing field (like that of the old days) where even none race fans knew peoples names. That netflix show was what brought it back and got people re-interested in it again even if it means weird things are happening , like making street tracks to any city willing to pay to host it.
Bizarre take. Viewership was pretty level between 2014-2017. Netflix only had a major effect from the 2020 season onwards due to COVID. So the increase in viewership between 2018-2019 has to be down to something else, and as the field was basically carried over across these years, it's down to Liberty opening the sport up through social media and rebranding. Netflix is not the issue with Formula 1.
I think a best solution for this is when a race is red flagged the cars return to the pits. When the race is restarted the drivers are allowed to exit the pit in the order they entered. With the caveat that a car cannot be released until the car that was released ahead of your in fully in the pit lane, and is closer to the exit then you are. So say you are in a in a Alpine, and a Hass was in front of you, as soon as the Hass is has all four tires in the bit lane you can exit. But if there was a Merc in front of you you have to wait till they pass your pit box before your team can release the car. The drivers and the pit crew would know exactly the the conditions needed for release the car. Either we need to see the Hass's has exited their box and is in the pit lane, or we need to wait for the Merc to pass. This should bunch up the pack enough to keep it competitive but not so much as we have what we saw in Aus. You could even swap it up a little bit that you only need to wait for a car that's ahead of you to pass before you can pull out. For example if you are in an alpine an a has was ahead of you and ahead of the has was a red bull, the alpine can be released as soon as the red bull passes but they have to give enough room to let the has out. This shouldn't be an issue if all drivers are maintaining pit lane speed limits.
You can't argue about the tyres. All they can do is make a 1 pitstop rule instead of 2 compounds rule Tyre changes have to be made in case of damage, and this is an ENORMOUS puncture concern, and they can't inspect car by car because of timeslots
I was recently watching the 2024 6 hours of spa which has a red flag. Only difference was that it was the first red flag in right 2 years. I know there have less races but the amount of time they run for mixes with the sheer number of cars on the track at any given time. It’s incredible they went that long. And some f1 races have 2-3 in one race
For the tire change rule, removing it would negatively impact anyone who was close to pitting but hadn’t, they would lose their gap behind and lose loads of positions. There does need to be a better rule, but ultimately someone will always come out worse
But this would be in line with a normal safety car and you can prepare for it. Now the pit stop strategy for red flags and SC are the opposite and going in for a tire change under a SC can actually hurt you even though it is the "right" decision.
I don't mind the standing restart only because of the pitstop rule. If they changed it so that teams couldnt work on their car, then they should do a "VSC Restart" where each car is released from pit lane based on the gap they had to the car in front at the time of the red flag, and then everyone has to maintain a positive delta until the race restarts
No, I think it’s too much. If we are stopping races to fix barriers, then it should be up to the track to strengthen the barriers. I find that stopping a race for entertainment’s sake (finishing the race under green) is not necessary. No need to prolong the race to get a more satisfying finish. If those are the circumstances, that is that. Safety car periods are already exciting on their own.
I'm ok with a red flag to end a race under racing conditions but when a red flag is displayed it shouldn't be a standing start unless the crash happened on the first lap
Here's and idea. when a crash occurs late in the GP ( lets say 10 or less laps till the end) like in Australia or abu dhabi 2021 just stop the lap count. This way we get no SC ending and no standing restart and everyone is happy.
When it's towards the end of the race it's almost like they're trying to have their own version of Nascar's Green-White-Checkered rule, but then you're running the risk of developing ARCA Brakes
I started watching regularly in 2021 and I think most of them have been legit. I would say that the ones on street tracks tend to be up in the air a bit more because the barriers are right there and are often damaged requiring a level of repair that requires Marshalls on track more than a safety car would permit. Some have been nonsense such as the first two in Melbourne this year. That race should have ended under the safety car.
I agree that some red flags of recent times shouldve been safety cars instead. In the case of albon's crash in melbourne, it could go either way since there was gravel all over the track, but the safety car speed would allow for an extra couple of minutes each lap for those marshals to clean it up. But there's this saying that could put this logic up in the air: Safety cars breed safety cars. I do think that F1's being a liiittle too trigger happy with red flags though
There are many more races per year now, so that in itself statistically pushes up the number of red flags. Then add in the huge increase in proportion of tracks that are bloody street circuits (no run off, no escape roads, no/few openings in the barriers to enable quick and easy recovery) and you've completely changed the environment. Both those lead to massively increased statistical chance of needing a safety car.
I find the red flag for Baku 2021 quite justifyable, if only for the point that with 2 blown tyres causing major accidents on the main straight, you couldn't be sure when the next one hit for people on old worn tyres. A red flag aided teams in making that decision rather than risk another accident happening again. I know one V8 Supercars race where teams were only looking at the guy behind and where they would fall to when switching to wets, resulting in "They're all in the fence" when they approached the first real braking zone after the red flag
"There were almost no red flags in the '50's and '60's." *Looks at the Jo Schlesser RA302 crash that was literally so bright the stewards couldn't see well enough to put it out that also didn't get red-flagged*
Too many red flags is better than too many deaths. At no time have we raced on so many street tracks where the track is clear or its red. A 15 minute of a red flag is better than losing 15 laps behind a safety car. Also changing tyres - let them change tyres to a part worn set.
I think there still exists a problem that the virtual safety car rules have simply not been implemented the way they could or should ultimately be to ensure the safety of marshals. This whole BS of target times is still leading drivers to drive maybe fast, maybe slow, in unpredictable locations, rather than utilising the two-way comms and control capabilities of the ECU to actually enforce "hey, between turns 5 and 8, it's gonna literally be 40 or 60km/h - and exactly 40km/h, and *noone* will get an advantage". More needs to be done to communicate with marshalls what periods during a lap they'll have 90 seconds to get a rapid amount of work done, followed by a field of 18 cars - then they can snap back to having free room to move. This isn't being done effectively, even though the Safety Car and VSC *should* have enabled this. It also doesn't help that more and more we're seeing barriers being used which deform too easily in to a way that can't take a second hit, and need too much extensive work to replace.
The Nurburgring 24h doesn’t have red flags (bar when it is impossible to drive due to weather) nor a safety car. They solve striking cars to the side of a track where there is hardly any run off area with slow zones. Why couldn’t this be implemented in F1?
In nascar if you touch the car its a major no no (look at Sterling Marlin in Daytona 2003 getting a major penalty for tugging on a fender) yet in f1 you can essentially change the whole car
It sucks that some people lose out strategically on red flags but that’s a double edged sword in itself. If you forced people to start on the same tyre they were on earlier you might be forcing drivers to restart on horribly worn tyres, which is unsafe, and if they survive the restart, they still need to pit and get completely screwed, which is at least as unfair as a driver losing positions on red flags. Personally I think the rules for changing tyres under red flags really don’t need a change, because it’s the safest option. It’s not fair but racing can be unfair. You don’t see people complaining that you can pit under a safety car, even though it’s not too different to “pitting” under reds.
NASCAR has (had? - It's been a bit since I've followed it!) a reputation for shamelessly pushing the "spectacle" aspect over the actual racing. A LOT of red flags to set up a "Green/White/Checkered" finish for incidents which, if they had happened earlier in the event, would likely have only brought out a Yellow.
I think the Jules Bianchi incident scared the pants off'em and they don't want to risk a repeat
rightfully so. no one whats a repeat of what happened to jules. rather have a spa 2021 than another death
Then why did they let the exact same scenario happen last year at the same track?
@@grahamreece519 because the fia is still ridiculous. we all saw the drama that followed after it and maybe the fia learned actually from it
@@grahamreece519 Yeah, I don't want to sound contrarian to the videos point but, clearly we needed one more red flag for that GP, it is unacceptable what happened and how it was just swept under the rug. If the argument is "we've had more red flags now than before" I really just want to answer "Good".
Having said that, I do agree with the video's point but rather than omitting red flags, maybe just tweak the rules around standing restarts and/or tire changing.
SC (or VSC which was introduced later)
would have prevented Bianchi's accident
This is what happens when F1 wants every track to be a street circuit. If someone goes off at Silverstone or Interlagos, their probably not on the circuit. Much easier to VSC or SC if the car is off in the tire wall off the track. Cant have a SC if a car wipes out on a street track and puts debris everywhere and the car isnt recoverable.
Silverstone has had a red flag the last 2 years, both were 100% justified, it’s often down to coincidence
IMO, in regards to street circuits. F1 should just say that if you're paying through the nose to get an F1 race in your country, you have to also pay to create an actual track. Jeddah is probably the stupidest case. I'm not quite sure if "no new street circuits" is the best policy, but I really think that F1 should try and reduce them.
@@NovemberOrWhatever Jeddah is (location aside) one of the greatest tracks on the calendar. Overtaking very possible, as well as defending. Exciting to drive, I don’t see your problem with it?
@@thomashegger1776 I might have got the wrong one. I meant the one with terrible visibility and concrete walls instead of crash barriers
@@NovemberOrWhatever Both have been improved, all the hitzones are now safer barriers
Pleasure doing business with you!
Good job man, hope I see you grow even more
Too many red flags is a better problem to have than too few red flags if we have to compromise
I have to disagree. There should only be certain circumstances that red flags should be deployed. Massive crashes and damages to the safety barriers are an immediate red flag but if there's a driver in the gravel that shot some onto the track then a safety car is perfectly fine since the cars will be slow enough to give them time to clean up properly
@@valkeitos When accidents can be fatal, i'd rather see a red too much than see a driver lose their live. Not saying they are used 100% appropriately at the moment, but the comment you replied to said rather too many than too few, and thats a potential consequence on too few.
Hard disagree, we have one too many red flag in australia, and as a result, another red flag cause by the crash happened as the consequence of that red flag.
@@shansen6969 How are u going to die in these cars? the last tragic time was jules and he hit a fucking 5 ton tractor... Only possibility is car into the side of another like hubert but that isnt preventable with any safety messure other then not driving
Agree 100% because like they go fast. If crash they either get injured or dead.
Don't forget though that the rolling restart rule for a red flag was introduced in 2004 and not used for the first time until 2007. Plus when this change was made the official description was changed from "Race Stopped" to "Race Suspended" and the restart was not treated as a seperate race as it was before this change, but instead a continuation of the same race. Before 2004 any red flags and then restarts were always a standing start, so I see it as they've just returned back to how it was always traditionally done which is not always a bad thing. Also it was Belgium 2001 not Imola 94 where the last restart after 4 or more laps being completed took place as that was stopped on lap 5 after Burti's accident. It's only because when the standing start was re-introduced there were only 2 drivers on the grid who had been around for the original rules that the fuss was made. At least they got rid of the aggregate race results at the end 1994 because that really was too confusing as the person out front on the track may not have been the leader on the timing screen so it wasn't until everyone finished that the actual result was known. Yes I do think that there are too many now, and maybe sometimes the option of using a rolling restart would be better based on hindsight, especially as the rules say either start type can be used. Let's just wait and see what happens in the future
peters channel is well worth following. sometimes you need a good attention span, but hes funny and very informative. ive been following f1 for over 20 years and im still learning new stuff watching his videos
One of the very few F1/motorsport channels I have saved. Alongside this one of course!
He is much better than f1 word and tommo who thinks their own opinion are correct and others wrong
@@Blueflag04 just curious, is that a popular opinion on tommo? i feel like if you don’t have any issues with josh or peter (in particular) i can’t see how you would have issues with tommo, who qualifies his statements and makes it clear he’s presenting biased opinions far more than most creators. perhaps the issue is his content is more “take” based in nature and therefore he shares his opinion more often, meaning you just prefer more structured or objective content? idk, i just have rarely if ever seen him imply his biased opinion is the only valid opinion. i like them all, so i just found your comment interesting - not trying to disrespect.
@@paulalexander8874 rocketpoweredmohawk is the GOAT f1 youtuber
@@tomcharlton586 good shout 👍
After watching the Sebring WEC an IMSA races, F1 looks like it's treating their track marshals as if they only move in slow motion. We have systems in place that slow down cars accordingly so that the cars can, stick to a part of the track, or not have any (realistic) chance of flying off into the marshals doing their work. Some red flags have been justified, but others are a bit silly. Red flags used to be a symbol of "Whoa something really bad has happened, to the point that we can't even have cars slowly roll past it."
I think the marshals have actually been told not to rush and to move slowly. Maybe they've always been told this but over the last several years I feel like I've noticed marshals doing things much more slowly now than in the past. I feel like they used to hustle more so they could clear things as quickly as possible and disrupt the race as little as possible.
@@chrisvienneau3402
The marshals work like they're being paid by the minute, lol.
And I'm sure that works if there's tons of run off, Marshall's don't need to clear the entire width of the track of debris or gavel, the recovery vehicle doesn't need to be on track and, it's not an incident that wouldn't take multiple slow laps to recover. Oh, and no barrier for a car that goes 200kph+ didn't get destroyed.
Then we must ask the question, what's the benefit of actually hard stopping a race vs. slowing?
Well, the first is time! I don't need to manage personal or try and coral all drivers and recovery teams to avoid potential issues!
Yea, in fact, it can be faster to stop the race and get all the work done without distractions.
The second( some might say is more important) slowing down or moving to one side of the track only reduces the chance for an incident. It doesn't eliminate it, and depending on the incident, it doesn't even reduce the chances.
There's already 4 measures in place right now to slow cars down. Yellow flags, double yellows, VSC, and Saftey cars, and guess what? In each one, even when drivers are on their best behavior, incidents happen.
You can't be the pinnacle of motors sport and then show the world you're willing to gamble with volunteer worker's lives. When a perfectly good viable alternative exists.
@@LSB001 I think you'll find nearly all of them aren't paid at all.
Monsieur LeCrash officially killed me 😂
Next race is Monaco too 👀🍿
Peter Brook is one of the more underrated F1 youtubers, I'm glad he's starting to get some traction!
In NASCAR, they say "cautions breed cautions" (safety cars breed safety cars, or red flags breed red flags, in F1 lingo)
I am not a huge Nascar fan but at least they are still keeping to the racing roots in a sense. It's flat out, low tech compared to other motorsports and all about the drivers skill. F1 feels like it has lost it's way and got boring which is why they had to make that netflix show to bring people back. People loved F1 for the strong personalities - the folks who would drive on the bitter edge of disaster and engineers could do what they do best. Now that is all manufactured and neutered by ever-changing miniscule rulings.
Top video as always but extra special hooray for the Peter Brook cameo and shoutout!
As the video pointed out, the first few corners after a standing start is one of the most dangerous times for the drivers. When you call a red flag, there is still some new risk introduced and the fact the FIA hasn't considered restarting races under safety car rather than as a standing start makes me feel that the increase in red flags is being driven by entertainment rather than safety. Especially since their safety is so lacking in other areas like when it took Ocon almost running over a dozen photographers for them to stop letting non essential people into the pitlane before the race has finished.
"Cautions breed Cautions"
-NASCAR Fans and commentators at any restrictor plate track
If F1 and the FIA Want safety then they should replace a VSC with Full Course Yellow and under SC have a Slowzone where the accident is. The fact there is no speed limit in the zone of the incident is more of an incident waiting to happen. For me GTWCE Has the best Safety Regulations followed by NLS (Has no Safety Cars btw)
Your wish come true with the new double yellow flag rule
Big facts, it’s always confused me why they don’t have this. I feel that the current VSC and double waved yellows rules almost encourage the drivers to abuse them in the same way concrete runoffs encourage drivers to go wide or cut the corner after the mildest inconvenience.
The only problem imo is when they do just "for the show", like at this year's Aussie GP or the 2021 Azerbaijan Grand Prix. If done for safety reasons, in case they're truly required (AKA, an accident that's too big for just a Safety Car), I don't see a problem with them.
Also, like I saw in another comment, F1's insistence on racing more and more on street circuits such as Jeddah, Miami or Vegas plays a role in the number of red flags going up, as there are barely any runoff areas and, because of that, a car crashing will 99.999999% bring at least out the Safety Car, virtual or physical.
I don't see how Australia '23 red flag was "for the show" when there were literally pieces of debris falling to the spectators and in a high speed part of the track that could cut tyres but what do I know
@@camperosintomate It was an accident whose solution was to end the race under Safety Car. Instead of that, they stopped the race with a Red flag with only a few laps to go to do a "two lap shootout" for the sake of making it end in a Game 7 moment only for it massively backfire and end up in a disaster ending to one of the best races of the year. And not happy with that, they decided to end the whole thing doing a stupid lap under SC (which itself made the 5 second penalty to Carlos Sainz a de facto DQ) because God forbid that a race ends up after a red flag provoked in the first place by race officials trying to put in place a gimmicky ending rather than following the jurisdiction set by Monza last year as well as literally every occasion of this kind pre-Baku 2021.
@@camperosintomate they could have and probably should have finished that race under yellow flags
@@vjollila96 they couldnt
@@dgsdhsdeuye57 I mean, come on, they really could. And should.
The big change I think is bigger and faster cars, and more sophisticated barriers.
A stack of tyres, sometimes chained together or filled with ballast, is still a stack of tyres.
The Tec-Pro barrier has tensioned cables along its length, and it is only effective if all the pieces are put together and the cables are properly tensioned.
A misaligned tyre barrier might be 10% less safe, the Tec-Pro will be vastly less safe for subsequent collisions.
I don't even mind the red flags that much bc of safety, but the standing starts become a sh*tshow. Red flags bring more chaos and domino effect of furhter red flags.
The main thing I hate about red flags is being able to change tires under red flag conditions. Stroll in Italy 2020 got a podium without making a proper pitstop when the race was actually going because he changed his tires under the red flag and Norris was denied a podium because he changed tires under normal racing conditions. How is that fair?
@@theredguy8746 Why are you talking about Stroll and not Gasly and how he only won because he didn't have to change tyres apart from under the red flag and how Sainz got robbed of the victory.
@@maxb148 Oh, I forgot about that. I guess the reason I remember it happening with Stroll was because I remember Norris complaining about it afterwards.
@@maxb148 you are misremembering the race, Pierre absolutely pitted, he did it right as Magnussen car stopped at the pit entry so he came out before Safety Car was called out and the pit entry closed. The reason he gained so many positions is simply due to everyone else in front but Stroll pitting as soon as the pit lane opened again
That's cool you got the guy who wrote the tweet to contribute!
Did not expect to come across Peter Brook here, great Stuff!
There have been too many red flags, but a big part of that is down to double dipping caused by bad restarts for me so I'll propose the following changes:
- After 25% race distance, restarts will be rolling restarts.
- Once the safety car is coming in, the cars will adhere to a fixed delta VSC style until safety car line 1. Then it's full racing speed and overtaking is allowed once cars pass the finish line. (Hopefully preventing a Mugello style pile up backing the field up)
- Tyre changes during a red flag do not count as a pit stop. Won't stop drivers changing them (teams will claim damage etc), but means drivers still need to stop again.
- If a safety car becomes a red flag without an additional incident, the order at the restart will be taken from the order at the time the safety car was called. Preventing drivers who pit getting shafted and hopefully reducing order shuffling and allegations of entertainment value coming first
I like this
this sounds the best compromise
I think they should take this even further - and to say that the two-compound tyre rule doesn't count if either tyre is changed *between an accident occurring* (not just when the safety car is bought out) - so effectively you can change tyres, but not tyre compounds to satisfy this rule.
I like this, but with one addition: F1 are desperate not to have races finish under a safety car, and they're right. I'd add that for the last 15% of the race, the safety car is retired. The options are VSC or red flag. If nothing else, it means that race directors aren't tempted to pull the safety car in early without going through the full procedures so that you get one lap of green flag racing at the end. (Yes, I'm a Hamilton fan, and yes, Max is really really good, but that was a travesty any way you slice it.)
Love all your videos dude! You’ve taught more about former formula and other racers, races, etc! Continue the Awesome Content! ❤
Video topic aside, I loved that Peter was included in the video!
Even though it made for epic TV I still can't believe they threw out a red flag cause of K-Mag's tyre being in the middle of the track. Next time it will be K-Mag's front wing endplate considering they fall off in nearly every race
Nice to see Peter's channel growing, the man is an encyclopedia of F1 with great vids
I love it. It’s like the metaphorical evil stage racing in Nascar but without the faux caution to bring everything to a halt. It gives me time to get up, grab a soda, get hyped up for something even more
If F123 wants to be as realistic as possible, any rain in the F1 games should be instantly red flagged
Josh and aidan millward are the best F1 channels on here. They both cover current events and historical stuff. So good
To answer the title: 'Yes'
2:10 half the damn grid died
2:13 😮😮😮😮
2:19 truck got roasted😂😂😂😂
5:06 binotto is the bad engineer😂😂😂😂
Great video as always Josh. Peter Brook is a great youtuber also. He puts a lot of effort into his videos. Well worth a look.
1:42 Josh got animal voices😂😂😂😂😂😂
one part of this is also the fact there often is like just one bit of debris and they can't manage to remove it for like 6 laps to the point when it would be easy to just send someone to remove it under a yellow flag or vsc...
If it was an incident that would normally bring a safty car that happens towards the end or the race, let it finish under yellow
I have also noticed this. Since I started watching F1 in 2019, I noticed there were more red flags especially starting 2020, but whenever I watched older race highlights from 2017, 18, and 19 there were barely any.
Peter Brook is a great creator btw
He has 20k on TH-cam and imo very underrated
Much better than that overrated f1 word and tommo
When channels say that you have a link in the description, Peter is that description
The red is in the Italian flag because of how many red flags Italian races normally have
Hint
Tuscan 2
Imola 1
Monza 1 in last 3 years
Ferrari is Red
Ferrari is Italian
There are a lot of red flags in Italy
COINCIDENCE?
I THINK NOT
I’m the old guy. People should race. If cars can’t cope with the weather, you’ve built a bad car. If drivers can’t cope with circumstances, you’ve got bad drivers.
Of course some instances are so extreme that a red flag is needed. But once a year should do it. Twice in a year would be memorable.
This nanny state needs to stop. Grow up. Build better cars, get better drivers. And better won’t mean ‘fast as long as conditions are perfect’. Conditions are bad, deal with it. Get a rally driver, they sure know what to do.
Really I think this is just a question of the standing start/pit under red rules. Other than those 2 things, Red flags and SCs operate the same way, but reds are generally safer. So I think it would make more sense to just highlight those 2 things.
Last Weekend was the 24h-Race at the Nürburgring. On that track (the Nordschleife-part, especially) they don't use safety cars. Car recovery and barrier-fixing is done with "code 60"-zones, where the cars have to slow way down.
That might be a way to get slightly less red flags in F1, not just safetycar-use but SLOW safety car use.
They have different barriers that aren't as complicated to repair
I feel like you don't watch F1. There are two safety cars in F1 a fast one and a slow one.
The slow one is the one drivers always complain about because of tire temp.
It's why there's two safety cars.
They also have double waved yellows, which is drop to 40% speed and be prepared to stop that covers and entire sector of the race track.
You also deliver great insights and videos. Keep it up!!
I find that it's less about how red flags are waved, and more about how the race restarts after one.
My take on this is that they throw a red flag because the drivers do not slow down enough when a single a double yellow flag is waved. Jules Bianchi's crash showed this. Catching your competitor is more important than someone's life to most drivers in F1
Yeah but why not use a Safety Car or VSC instead? I think the red flag for Magnussen in Australia could have easily been handeled with a SC.
You are actually halfway right there. It's because the drivers refuse to obey yellow flags and double waived yellow flags that they are very trigger happy with the safety car boards. I would say that a lot of the safety cars could be local double waived yellows. Can't trust the drivers to, I don't know, slow down? I solved that in less than 2 seconds a decade ago. You already have a device on the car that limits the speed of the cars. Make them go through the double waived yellow section under the pit speed limiter. Problem solved. Is that unfair because maybe one driver has to go through 2 times, and one has to go through 3 times. That's easy too. Everyone does the same times through the slow zone. You could end up with cars going really slow for a couple seconds on a green track, but now it's "fair" when really it's supposed to be racing, and sometimes these things happen.
@@Maenfy I generally get triggered at how little the VSC is used. It was brought in for a good reason and it's a good tool but is never fully utilised.
Racers all know and accept the risks associated and they know the drivers will be getting help quick .
Gasly and a few othwr drivers showed this aswell last year. The SC slowed everyone down when going past the crane but Gasly and a few other drivers i believe just were going too fast with no care in the world for the saftey. Even if you take the crane out of the equation marshals and Sainz car were on the track so people like to complain what if Gasly aquaplaned into the tractor but more like what if he aquaplaned into the marshals without the tractor there.
Shout out Peter Brook very underrated F1 TH-camr
peters channel is so underrated tbh
Yes
Hope he will be in more videos
Exactly, todays red flags were literally another safety car incident on a random race weekend just 10 years ago, so what if there's lots of debris?? a safety car is enough unless major incident happened such as death, too much destruction, weather, or incursions
My first red flag was '03 Brazil. Crazy race, crazy season.
One thing I can’t understand is why doesn’t race control have a radio to speak to all the drivers at once like what’s used in formula e. This would be particularly helpful in telling the drivers what side of the track to stay on and reduce speed while a car is being recovered on the other side of the track. Now maybe there is this system but it’s something is fans can’t hear on the live feed. For example the Albon red flag in Melbourne could have easily been just a safety car as Albons car was stopped on the side of the track which meant race control could instruct the drivers what side of the track to stay on and the only debris on the track was gravel from his spin which could be swept up by the Marshalls as long as they are give sufficient warning of the safety car pack coming so they can get out of the way and work again. That’s just an example I think of handling the safety car without the need of a red flag thus killing the momentum to get going again.
Josh, to start this, may I give you a suggestion: you must do the vídeo about the '73 Canadian GP and the "Pace Car". That would be awesome!
About the vídeo it self: I kinda agree with one the comments I read here. FIA still has the trauma of 2014 Japanese GP (and 2021 Abu Dhabi GP, but for other reasons) and they now use for any junk they see in the track. Formula E had that bad habit, but they now relented it (and they got better on the street circuits).
95% of red flags thrown recently could have been cleaned up SAFELY (for all you OSHA inspectors. OSHA is like "health and safety" in the US for all you non-us people) under a safety car. I would say of them could be cleaned up safely under local waived double yellows if we could get the drivers to you know.... actually pay attention to yellow flags. If you want to be really safe, make them travel through the yellow zone under the pit lane speed limiter if you want to leave no chance for a driver to disobey a yellow flag. The red flag is supposed to be used when the track is blocked. Them being able to gain a free pit stop off of a red flag is just absolutely ridiculous, and yes, I do know why they are allowed to do so now. How about a compromise on that last part. When the red flag is thrown, you can not work on your car unless youve been involved in a minor, secondary accident, and have a broken wing or something like that. No free tire changes though. If you change tires, you drop back 8 spots from where you are, unless you can prove that you cant go out on those tires. Using them until the chords are showing is NOT an acceptable reason either. Im talking 2005 levels of you cant change that tire. Im for safety, i really am. This is a bit much though. Sorry, but the VAST majority of red flags should not be red flags. You know what... No. Im not sorry. There has been far too many red flags lately.
You can bet the F3 support race in Monaco this week is going to be red-flag crazy (30 cars on the grid, there's probably going to be a pile-up either at the start or going into the Grand Hotel hairpin).
i dont know if its consciously different but i like these new thumbnails
I also think that recenty we have seen a raise in big crashes in F1, although nowadays FIA seem to be kind of trigger happy
5:54 free pitstop is there probably for safety reason drivers with highly used tires at restart could get risky what i would change: bin standing start entirely and allow tyre change during pits but driver will be thrown to last place kinda like with indy where if pitted to closed pitline during caution they would be thrown to rear
If feels like it's a "beyond obvious" answer: safety has improved tremendously, as it should. If more red flags is the result of less people dying, i see no "must be resolved yesterday" issue. What F1 should absolutely change, but it's my opinion, is no free pit stop and (somehow) implement the same time difference as when the red flag was implemented.
People don't die in racing very often, in fact it is pretty damn rare these days, so no, more red flags is not helping that at all. Better tech in the cars is helping that. These folks know and accept the risk associated with driving these cars on the edge - that is the appeal. It has become horribly boring to watch as this sport has been getting neutered by committee and arbitrary rules that change season to season.
Peter Brook is a LEGEND! sub to him, trust me!
Josh i just want to say that your vids are realy good.😁
every problem in F1 can be dialled into one crucial issue, the cars are simply too flippin' big mate.
2020 Tuscan GP at Mugello, also shows that a rolling restart can end up with as much carnage as a full restart like Australia 2023.
I think the main issue is that adidtional safety restrictions (barriers must be perfect, marshalls on track etc) mean that you pretty much have to have a red.
Id far prefer a red to see 20-laps of SC/VSC procession while they fix a barrier.
Also for a late race flag, the unlapping procedure takes way too long.. what Masi did (though not supported by the rules) was much quicker - so let the lapped cars drop backand just append +1 lap to them (they end up with a slight fuel benefit)
id argue not enough runoff areas or gravel pits so cars get out of the way and arent just left on the circuit, then you can just go for vsc or sc, clean up the gravel and keep going while crew gets the car behind barriers.
Peter Brook has a fine TH-cam channel.
Better than f1 word
i think there should be a rule that if a certain amount of laps are left (maybe something like 3-5) the race wont be restarted.
That's what happened until Liberty Clown Shoes took over.
Yeah bro right, let motivate teammates of lucky drivers who get into fromt positions by mere chance (or SC/VSC) to crash on purpose
@@fourutubez7294 liberty media has nothing to do with decisions made by FIA stewards
@@fourutubez7294 Monaco 2011 was restarted with only 6 laps remaining or something. Only difference is Liberty prefers red flagging the race and restart instead of finishing under SC. Because America, Indy has been doing it for years. And it’s allowed, the rules just stated (prior to 2022) that if a race was passed 75% and was abandoned full points could be awarded. It wasn’t a given that the race should always be abandoned past 75% if a red comes out
theres a similar rule in bike racing (like motogp or world superbikes) where a race won't be restarted if it has passed ⅔ race distance (bearing in mind their races are like 30 to 40 minutes total), its so much better imo, especially in the rain at the ⅔ cut off when everyone is pushing incase it gets red flagged
I was going to say restart under a safety car but even then I remember Mugello 2020 when people approached the pack at high speed and crashed
The cynical part of my brain tells me many decisions in F1 would be different if Netflix wasn’t a thing.
The sport was losing viewership - it was getting boring and there were no real personalities in the racing field (like that of the old days) where even none race fans knew peoples names. That netflix show was what brought it back and got people re-interested in it again even if it means weird things are happening , like making street tracks to any city willing to pay to host it.
Bizarre take. Viewership was pretty level between 2014-2017. Netflix only had a major effect from the 2020 season onwards due to COVID. So the increase in viewership between 2018-2019 has to be down to something else, and as the field was basically carried over across these years, it's down to Liberty opening the sport up through social media and rebranding. Netflix is not the issue with Formula 1.
I think a best solution for this is when a race is red flagged the cars return to the pits. When the race is restarted the drivers are allowed to exit the pit in the order they entered. With the caveat that a car cannot be released until the car that was released ahead of your in fully in the pit lane, and is closer to the exit then you are.
So say you are in a in a Alpine, and a Hass was in front of you, as soon as the Hass is has all four tires in the bit lane you can exit. But if there was a Merc in front of you you have to wait till they pass your pit box before your team can release the car. The drivers and the pit crew would know exactly the the conditions needed for release the car. Either we need to see the Hass's has exited their box and is in the pit lane, or we need to wait for the Merc to pass.
This should bunch up the pack enough to keep it competitive but not so much as we have what we saw in Aus.
You could even swap it up a little bit that you only need to wait for a car that's ahead of you to pass before you can pull out. For example if you are in an alpine an a has was ahead of you and ahead of the has was a red bull, the alpine can be released as soon as the red bull passes but they have to give enough room to let the has out. This shouldn't be an issue if all drivers are maintaining pit lane speed limits.
You can't argue about the tyres. All they can do is make a 1 pitstop rule instead of 2 compounds rule
Tyre changes have to be made in case of damage, and this is an ENORMOUS puncture concern, and they can't inspect car by car because of timeslots
F1 in 2000 to 2010
Oh no it's raining, anyways let's go racing
F1 Now
Oh it's light rain, better not racing then
I was recently watching the 2024 6 hours of spa which has a red flag. Only difference was that it was the first red flag in right 2 years. I know there have less races but the amount of time they run for mixes with the sheer number of cars on the track at any given time. It’s incredible they went that long. And some f1 races have 2-3 in one race
For the tire change rule, removing it would negatively impact anyone who was close to pitting but hadn’t, they would lose their gap behind and lose loads of positions. There does need to be a better rule, but ultimately someone will always come out worse
But this would be in line with a normal safety car and you can prepare for it. Now the pit stop strategy for red flags and SC are the opposite and going in for a tire change under a SC can actually hurt you even though it is the "right" decision.
I would like to see something like a code60 zone instead of a red flag or sc or vsc. If possible ofc
I don't mind the standing restart only because of the pitstop rule. If they changed it so that teams couldnt work on their car, then they should do a "VSC Restart" where each car is released from pit lane based on the gap they had to the car in front at the time of the red flag, and then everyone has to maintain a positive delta until the race restarts
No, I think it’s too much. If we are stopping races to fix barriers, then it should be up to the track to strengthen the barriers. I find that stopping a race for entertainment’s sake (finishing the race under green) is not necessary. No need to prolong the race to get a more satisfying finish. If those are the circumstances, that is that. Safety car periods are already exciting on their own.
You're mad because you don't understand how the barriers work, "strengthening" them would just make them less safe.
I'm ok with a red flag to end a race under racing conditions but when a red flag is displayed it shouldn't be a standing start unless the crash happened on the first lap
Peter Brook LETSGOOOO
Always a pleasure to see a new video!
Here's and idea. when a crash occurs late in the GP ( lets say 10 or less laps till the end) like in Australia or abu dhabi 2021 just stop the lap count. This way we get no SC ending and no standing restart and everyone is happy.
When it's towards the end of the race it's almost like they're trying to have their own version of Nascar's Green-White-Checkered rule, but then you're running the risk of developing ARCA Brakes
The infamous safety car restart at Mugello in 2020 may also have influenced the FIA's desire for standing restarts after red flags.
there should be more because i clearly dont know what a red flag is hahahahahah
I just get annoyed when people say f1 needs to nerf Red Bull, then say they don't like that f1 is prioritizing the show by throwing more red flags
I started watching regularly in 2021 and I think most of them have been legit. I would say that the ones on street tracks tend to be up in the air a bit more because the barriers are right there and are often damaged requiring a level of repair that requires Marshalls on track more than a safety car would permit.
Some have been nonsense such as the first two in Melbourne this year. That race should have ended under the safety car.
I agree that some red flags of recent times shouldve been safety cars instead. In the case of albon's crash in melbourne, it could go either way since there was gravel all over the track, but the safety car speed would allow for an extra couple of minutes each lap for those marshals to clean it up. But there's this saying that could put this logic up in the air: Safety cars breed safety cars.
I do think that F1's being a liiittle too trigger happy with red flags though
There are many more races per year now, so that in itself statistically pushes up the number of red flags.
Then add in the huge increase in proportion of tracks that are bloody street circuits (no run off, no escape roads, no/few openings in the barriers to enable quick and easy recovery) and you've completely changed the environment.
Both those lead to massively increased statistical chance of needing a safety car.
I find the red flag for Baku 2021 quite justifyable, if only for the point that with 2 blown tyres causing major accidents on the main straight, you couldn't be sure when the next one hit for people on old worn tyres. A red flag aided teams in making that decision rather than risk another accident happening again.
I know one V8 Supercars race where teams were only looking at the guy behind and where they would fall to when switching to wets, resulting in "They're all in the fence" when they approached the first real braking zone after the red flag
I think F1 should introduce slow zones. Ir would impossible to manage if each time there's an accident on a road, you close it entirely.
Indycar has long had the phrase "yellows breed yellows". Seems applicable to just about any colour of flag...
No. Pushing the limit even further than before. Which means crashes but also cautiousness.
Finally, good F1 content
"There were almost no red flags in the '50's and '60's."
*Looks at the Jo Schlesser RA302 crash that was literally so bright the stewards couldn't see well enough to put it out that also didn't get red-flagged*
What was the music at the end Josh? Sounded great!
Too many red flags is better than too many deaths. At no time have we raced on so many street tracks where the track is clear or its red. A 15 minute of a red flag is better than losing 15 laps behind a safety car. Also changing tyres - let them change tyres to a part worn set.
People dying in racing is rare these days. Red flags aren't the reason safety has gone up.
@@corail53 well observed. Not sure who said it did.
We Red Flag it when it's raining faster and we have more street tracks, where any accident becomes a Red Flag situation
There are. Having two street races in the US, racing in an active warzone, having r races in the gulf, questioning Spa...
To answer your question:
Australian GP, red flag to remove a wheel: yes.
I think there still exists a problem that the virtual safety car rules have simply not been implemented the way they could or should ultimately be to ensure the safety of marshals. This whole BS of target times is still leading drivers to drive maybe fast, maybe slow, in unpredictable locations, rather than utilising the two-way comms and control capabilities of the ECU to actually enforce "hey, between turns 5 and 8, it's gonna literally be 40 or 60km/h - and exactly 40km/h, and *noone* will get an advantage". More needs to be done to communicate with marshalls what periods during a lap they'll have 90 seconds to get a rapid amount of work done, followed by a field of 18 cars - then they can snap back to having free room to move. This isn't being done effectively, even though the Safety Car and VSC *should* have enabled this.
It also doesn't help that more and more we're seeing barriers being used which deform too easily in to a way that can't take a second hit, and need too much extensive work to replace.
When an F1 season has more red flags than a NASCAR season, you know that something’s wrong.
**cue FP1Will Red Flag meme**
The Nurburgring 24h doesn’t have red flags (bar when it is impossible to drive due to weather) nor a safety car. They solve striking cars to the side of a track where there is hardly any run off area with slow zones. Why couldn’t this be implemented in F1?
In nascar if you touch the car its a major no no (look at Sterling Marlin in Daytona 2003 getting a major penalty for tugging on a fender) yet in f1 you can essentially change the whole car
It sucks that some people lose out strategically on red flags but that’s a double edged sword in itself.
If you forced people to start on the same tyre they were on earlier you might be forcing drivers to restart on horribly worn tyres, which is unsafe, and if they survive the restart, they still need to pit and get completely screwed, which is at least as unfair as a driver losing positions on red flags.
Personally I think the rules for changing tyres under red flags really don’t need a change, because it’s the safest option. It’s not fair but racing can be unfair. You don’t see people complaining that you can pit under a safety car, even though it’s not too different to “pitting” under reds.
NASCAR has (had? - It's been a bit since I've followed it!) a reputation for shamelessly pushing the "spectacle" aspect over the actual racing. A LOT of red flags to set up a "Green/White/Checkered" finish for incidents which, if they had happened earlier in the event, would likely have only brought out a Yellow.
You have to keep viewers interested. Nascar people went for the parties and crashes, F1 people are only again paying attention because of netflix.
@@corail53 My counter to that is basically what Josh said about Monza '20: It risks penalizing those who've run a more successful race to that point.