Never once in my 29 years heard a pilot pull up to the runway and then demand expedited departure because he has two minutes before he has to go back for fuel. Absolutely ridiculous. And if for some reason, somebody did have that necessity, they should’ve informed the controller when they were taxing out. Sounds like they fueled up at their original airport and carried enough fuel for more than one leg. And then for some reason we’re running low. Not ATC’s problem. And unless specified by airport directives, makes no difference if commercial aircraft fly there. Touch and goes are allowed.
It's a commercial airport, I'm a commercial pilot flying a commercial aircraft and that gives me the right to dictate who flies here and get upset with ATC. What a
It’s a public airport funded by public money. If you want it to be a commercial airport, your airlines should have built it and kept the pesky public out
That is not at all true, Dane County Regional Airport receives no local tax dollars. Airport funds are derived entirely from airport operations. The primary tenants of the airport are the commercial airlines, which share administrative costs, pay landing fees, and purchase fuel and gate services from the fixed base operator. Secondary income like parking fees and and tertiary income like the rents paid by on-site rental car agencies, restaurants, and gift shops also derive from fare-paying passengers. Flight schools pay nominal fees and their activities are almost entirely subsidised by commercial traffic. The Airbus pilot is a petulant baby but from an operational perspective it makes no sense to have business travellers in limbo and an A319 burning fuel at the threshold while the runway is given over to teenagers who can learn just as much from being in a holding pattern.
From outstations, they dont carry a lot of extra fuel due to the cost of refueling away from hubs. I think he was concerned that he would reach min fuel if they didn’t get off quickly. But no excuse for the attitude.
@@thomasdalton1508the pilot knows exactly how much fuel they have before they go below the minimum fuel allowed for takeoff. It's not like they are about to actually run out of fuel, but they need certain amounts of reserve fuel demanded by law and their company policy. They didn't plan on waiting those few extra minutes for pattern traffic when they ordered fuel. Should the pilot have known an hour before how many people would be doing touch and go practice? Of course not. However, better communication as early as possible could have prevented the delay, since atc can't read commercial pilots' minds.
@@scottmattern482 Nobody suggested he should have known an hour before. The controller said he should have known ten minutes before, which he certainly should have done.
@@scottmattern482 But this is an A320, it uses about 600 kg/h when idling, which makes like 20 kg (45 lbs) per those two minutes. No way this amount could have made any difference. They either took too little or he just used this as an excuse to argue with the ATC. Believe me, this was just a bad attitude on his side. (An A320 captain speaking here).
Translation: this was the crew’s last leg and one (or both) pilots had a tight connection to get home. Either way, completely unacceptable and the story about returning to the gate for more fuel was fabricated 😂
Very elitist tone in that pilot's voice. Life will eventually knock his ego down a few slots, hopefully it won't happen while he's piloting a commercial aircraft
@@-DM every commercial airport has delays. The pilot’s job is safety and a comfortable flight. If he’s so concerned with the airline’s bottom line he has the wrong job title. They have accountants for that
What is going on with attitudes at A/A? This snippy guy banging on with ATC and an A/A flight turns around an international flight because a passenger said no thank you waiter to a snippy male flight attendant.
The American Airlines pilot told the controller not to be rude to him, but he was the one who was rude first. As airline pilots, they should've known that this airport has many student pilot trainings, so they should've expected lots of touch and go landings. They should've made proper flight planning, not poor sense of entitlement. As airline pilots, they should know that services ATC render is on a first come, first serve basis. If I'm an airline pilot, I will never fly with this kind of pilot and if he's my captain who took over the radios to be rude to ATC in this way, I will file a report.
American is absolutely correct. It’s a commercial airport. The operators of that field pay as much or more to fly there. American Airlines has no more rights to the airport than any other entity. Since the two mantras for ATC is first “safe, orderly, and expeditious”, and the second is “all planes are considered equal, IE first come first served” he got no preferential treatment.
Common sense should prevail. Who is more important, a commercial aircraft with both engines running ready to go or a touch and go pilot❓Some ATCs needs a reality check❗
As a professional pilot, this guy is supposed to properly prepare for the airports he is operation from. In this case, he should have known that he may have to wait a couple of minutes for a take off clearance. He could have boarded a little more fuel, to be able to sit e.g. 15 minutes on the taxyway.
So, the pilot took in just enough fuel to get to the start of the runway, only without any delay? Any delay would cause him to need refueling, causing extra work for ATC, and annoying the passengers?
See what I've been saying about changing norms? 20 years ago this would be un-thinkable. Now its commonplace because we stopped screening for douchebags. YOU"RE SO IMPORTANT MAN....Everyone at the terminal is so impressed with your epaulets & ironed shirt. We awe in your ability to watch the AP fly the plane.
Hey AA2139, the airlines don’t own airports! I guess you forgot that when YOU learned to fly your instructor had you do touch and go’s! Pro Tip- don’t cut your fuel so darn close. Stop your damn whining, you’re louder than the engines!
Delta may have the "guard nazi" front locked down, but American is unmatched when it comes to arrogance and attitude towards other controllers. So much ego, there's a reason with the exception of location most pilots would prefer to work elsewhere.
ATC is in charge but they are not the one flying. not saying what he did was right. what I am saying is don't just trust ATC with your life. fly the plane use your own brain and be safe
@@TitaniumTurbine no just not saying like you, for some reason, to mindlessly trust what ATC may think is the right thing to do when in reality it is wrong. sorry your a snowflake melting didn't mean to hurt ya
Hilarious coming from American. Easily the absolute worst airline when it comes to getting to the runway and not having numbers, maintenance issues, etc....
Now that he's ATP I guess screw GA in his view. Now this video can follow him for life. And everyone who listens to it will rightfully call him a jerk.
The American pilot should have politely requested expedited clearance rather than silently expecting preferential treatment and telling passive-aggressive untruths when he didnt get it. That said, Dane County Regional Airport isnt exactly a public utility. They receive no local tax dollars and the airport budget is entirely derived from airport operations. The primary tenants of the airport are the commercial airlines, which share administrative costs, pay landing fees, and purchase fuel and gate services from the fixed base operator. Secondary income like parking fees and and tertiary income like the rents paid by on-site rental car agencies, restaurants, and gift shops also derive from fare-paying passengers. Flight school tuition isnt cheap but the reality is that they pay only nominal fees and their activities are almost entirely subsidised by commercial traffic. The Airbus pilot is a petulant baby but from an operational perspective it makes no sense to have business travellers in limbo and an A319 burning fuel at the threshold while the runway is given over to teenagers who can learn just as much from being in a holding pattern.
Wow! I've flown both N484ER (identified as ????4R and is mislabeled a C182 instead of a C172S) and N8262S (Just got back from a flight in it, actually, and it is accurately labeled in the video.)
why would the controller prioritize traffic on the ground when he's managing aircraft in the pattern? The fuel state of the aircraft waiting to take off isn't his problem. Maybe the American pilot should have been a little apologetic about his fuel state and asked for priority nicely
You need enough fuel to fly to your destination and then your alternate plus 45 minutes for cruise then then 5 mins for holding short at a runway for smaller planes doing touch and go 😂 Part 91.167
That pilot is a tool bag! He's just pissed he can't have more stripes on his uniform and hasn't gotten a piece in ages. Not the attitude a REAL professional has but what do I know...
🙄 this is an airport with flight schools and flying clubs which has more GA flights than commercial flights. FAA does not recognize commercial as having any sort of priority over GA. Arrogant pilot should be familiar with the airport, and take his attitude and go fuck himself
As opposed to a private airstrip or a local non towered airport where students would typically practice. Not saying he was in the right, just saying that is what he meant.
I genuinely have a problem with ATC allowing the American to take off rather than sending him back to the gate. I don't care what the rights and wrongs of that were. On the ground waiting to depart and stationary you're bottom of the priority list for ATC, not because they're choosing to mess people around, but because you pose the lowest safety concern. If the ATC was not - or barely - up to the job, which may or may not have been the case, I don't have any context here, literally the most dangerous thing you as a listener on the frequency can do is knock confidence and eat time further by openly attacking the guy on radio.
As a flight instructor I can tell you there is a place to do touch and goes and an airport that has constant airline traffic is not it. I always took my students to a nearby small plane airport for touch and goes. It costs the airlines a small fortune in fuel and time wasted.
Well, we’re missing context on the student pilot’s side here. There has to be a reason that they chose to perform touch and gos there… perhaps the nearby airfield(s) were closed, inclement weather was in the area of alternative fields, or there may have been some time constraints on the instructor/student that day. Either way, delays are something that the airlines have to account and plan for in the course of normal operations.
It's funny to read the comments as a non-pilot. My view is that the ATC should have told the small aircraft that they're going to have a commercial plane take off before the touch and go.
@@countryfucius OK. So the commercial flight with even more passengers bumps those with less. The commercial freight airliner bumps the air freight planes with less valuable cargo. But that isn't how it works. You line up in sequence. Generally speaking first come, first served. As it should be or otherwise it would be chaos at airports and holding patterns.
First of all A$$h0le, plan your fuel better and MSN is a commercial and GA airport; there are 2 ramps there, a flying club, student pilots and a significant amount of local GA traffic.
MSN is a real airport for real airplanes. If little 1 engine airplanes need to practice landings I am sure that there are smaller airports in the Madison area where they can practice.
Hay dumb F U C K air carrier traffic account for only 15% of KMSN traffic with general aviation part 91 aircraft more than 50% of traffic so go eat a bag of D I C K S
The practice they need is working with controllers. It's a commercial field? Flight training is a commercial activity. Arrogant prick pilot can get bent.
Seems like someone forgot he was once a student pilot himself trying to get in that seat time.
“Don’t get rude with me” he says immediately after being rude to the controller
Tower: "your moms a commerical airport. Everyone is always coming and going"
DAMN, Shoresy
Then have the pilot do a read back. “My mom is a commercial airport. Everyone is always coming and going. AAL2139.”
@@TitaniumTurbine bahahhahaha
Never once in my 29 years heard a pilot pull up to the runway and then demand expedited departure because he has two minutes before he has to go back for fuel. Absolutely ridiculous. And if for some reason, somebody did have that necessity, they should’ve informed the controller when they were taxing out. Sounds like they fueled up at their original airport and carried enough fuel for more than one leg. And then for some reason we’re running low. Not ATC’s problem. And unless specified by airport directives, makes no difference if commercial aircraft fly there. Touch and goes are allowed.
He sounds like a fun guy to fly with for the week.
Some folks forget where they came from, and now are flying others around with that mean attitude. Unacceptable.
It's a commercial airport, I'm a commercial pilot flying a commercial aircraft and that gives me the right to dictate who flies here and get upset with ATC.
What a
I've never heard of a "commercial airport". Is that where they play commercials on 121.5 ??? lmao 🙂
It’s a public airport funded by public money. If you want it to be a commercial airport, your airlines should have built it and kept the pesky public out
That is not at all true, Dane County Regional Airport receives no local tax dollars. Airport funds are derived entirely from airport operations. The primary tenants of the airport are the commercial airlines, which share administrative costs, pay landing fees, and purchase fuel and gate services from the fixed base operator. Secondary income like parking fees and and tertiary income like the rents paid by on-site rental car agencies, restaurants, and gift shops also derive from fare-paying passengers. Flight schools pay nominal fees and their activities are almost entirely subsidised by commercial traffic. The Airbus pilot is a petulant baby but from an operational perspective it makes no sense to have business travellers in limbo and an A319 burning fuel at the threshold while the runway is given over to teenagers who can learn just as much from being in a holding pattern.
American 2139, were your fuel indicators not working 8 minutes ago?
From outstations, they dont carry a lot of extra fuel due to the cost of refueling away from hubs. I think he was concerned that he would reach min fuel if they didn’t get off quickly. But no excuse for the attitude.
@@comcfiHe said they didn't know they were going to time out until two minutes before they would time out, which is pretty incompetent of them.
@@thomasdalton1508the pilot knows exactly how much fuel they have before they go below the minimum fuel allowed for takeoff. It's not like they are about to actually run out of fuel, but they need certain amounts of reserve fuel demanded by law and their company policy. They didn't plan on waiting those few extra minutes for pattern traffic when they ordered fuel. Should the pilot have known an hour before how many people would be doing touch and go practice? Of course not. However, better communication as early as possible could have prevented the delay, since atc can't read commercial pilots' minds.
@@scottmattern482 Nobody suggested he should have known an hour before. The controller said he should have known ten minutes before, which he certainly should have done.
@@scottmattern482 But this is an A320, it uses about 600 kg/h when idling, which makes like 20 kg (45 lbs) per those two minutes. No way this amount could have made any difference. They either took too little or he just used this as an excuse to argue with the ATC. Believe me, this was just a bad attitude on his side. (An A320 captain speaking here).
Translation: this was the crew’s last leg and one (or both) pilots had a tight connection to get home. Either way, completely unacceptable and the story about returning to the gate for more fuel was fabricated 😂
Very elitist tone in that pilot's voice. Life will eventually knock his ego down a few slots, hopefully it won't happen while he's piloting a commercial aircraft
@@-DM every commercial airport has delays. The pilot’s job is safety and a comfortable flight. If he’s so concerned with the airline’s bottom line he has the wrong job title. They have accountants for that
@@w.ryanbutler8097 ego is deadly in aviation. Having an ego can lead to accidents and incidents.
American 2139, cleared to taxi back to the crying towel gate.
That is not someone you want to be sitting next to…
American pilot apparently doesn’t get around much as there is a lot of training going on at a lot of commercial airports!!
The AA pilot dared call the ATC rude, when he was being rude.
Settle down captain Happy
What is going on with attitudes at A/A? This snippy guy banging on with ATC and an A/A flight turns around an international flight because a passenger said no thank you waiter to a snippy male flight attendant.
I bet his CRM skills are... something.
The American Airlines pilot told the controller not to be rude to him, but he was the one who was rude first. As airline pilots, they should've known that this airport has many student pilot trainings, so they should've expected lots of touch and go landings. They should've made proper flight planning, not poor sense of entitlement. As airline pilots, they should know that services ATC render is on a first come, first serve basis. If I'm an airline pilot, I will never fly with this kind of pilot and if he's my captain who took over the radios to be rude to ATC in this way, I will file a report.
American is absolutely correct. It’s a commercial airport. The operators of that field pay as much or more to fly there. American Airlines has no more rights to the airport than any other entity. Since the two mantras for ATC is first “safe, orderly, and expeditious”, and the second is “all planes are considered equal, IE first come first served” he got no preferential treatment.
Field has a flight school there, so they also have rights to the airport. No preferential treatment is correct.
Common sense should prevail. Who is more important, a commercial aircraft with both engines running ready to go or a touch and go pilot❓Some ATCs needs a reality check❗
i get why the pilots annoyed with fuel etc, but that was just rude lmao. Love the controller minute by minuting him as well
As a professional pilot, this guy is supposed to properly prepare for the airports he is operation from. In this case, he should have known that he may have to wait a couple of minutes for a take off clearance. He could have boarded a little more fuel, to be able to sit e.g. 15 minutes on the taxyway.
Share share that's fair.
There is a good way to say things and a bad way. He went the bad way.
So much arrogance. Bad pilot day.
Pilot has his panties in a twist.
Another airline princess. Or Karen.
So, the pilot took in just enough fuel to get to the start of the runway, only without any delay? Any delay would cause him to need refueling, causing extra work for ATC, and annoying the passengers?
The pilot has no control over the fuel load. They typically are close to min fuel at the gate so a taxi delay can cause a return to gate for fuel.
@@comcfiThe pilot absolutely has control over the fuel load. It is their decision (subject to required minimums) how much fuel to take.
@@comcfi the pilot in command has the final decision how much fuel they'll take, so he has control over the fuel load.
@@thomasdalton1508 Not at AA. The dispatcher determines fuel load. PIC can request more fuel to be added but doesn’t always get it.
@@ro-86alkonost78 he has very limited control. Dispatcher plans the fuel load.
See what I've been saying about changing norms? 20 years ago this would be un-thinkable. Now its commonplace because we stopped screening for douchebags. YOU"RE SO IMPORTANT MAN....Everyone at the terminal is so impressed with your epaulets & ironed shirt. We awe in your ability to watch the AP fly the plane.
But he could tell an amazing story in response to, "Tell Me About A Time When....".
This absolutely did happen 20 years ago.
They would hate flying at KMCI, lots of local flights doing touch n go's there. Tower is really good with GA aircraft.
Just a little back and forth. It happens. Glad it didn't escalate
Hey AA2139, the airlines don’t own airports! I guess you forgot that when YOU learned to fly your instructor had you do touch and go’s! Pro Tip- don’t cut your fuel so darn close. Stop your damn whining, you’re louder than the engines!
Delta may have the "guard nazi" front locked down, but American is unmatched when it comes to arrogance and attitude towards other controllers. So much ego, there's a reason with the exception of location most pilots would prefer to work elsewhere.
What a guy! I bet he is wearing 4 stripes in private, too. Of course to hide certain shortcomings.
Pilots forget the ATC is in charge of the field and not some entitled pilot!
ATC is in charge but they are not the one flying. not saying what he did was right. what I am saying is don't just trust ATC with your life. fly the plane use your own brain and be safe
@@johnsmith6266 What does any of that have to do with this situation? Are you a bot? Weird.
@@TitaniumTurbine no just not saying like you, for some reason, to mindlessly trust what ATC may think is the right thing to do when in reality it is wrong. sorry your a snowflake melting didn't mean to hurt ya
Hilarious coming from American. Easily the absolute worst airline when it comes to getting to the runway and not having numbers, maintenance issues, etc....
Now that he's ATP I guess screw GA in his view. Now this video can follow him for life. And everyone who listens to it will rightfully call him a jerk.
The American pilot should have politely requested expedited clearance rather than silently expecting preferential treatment and telling passive-aggressive untruths when he didnt get it.
That said, Dane County Regional Airport isnt exactly a public utility. They receive no local tax dollars and the airport budget is entirely derived from airport operations. The primary tenants of the airport are the commercial airlines, which share administrative costs, pay landing fees, and purchase fuel and gate services from the fixed base operator. Secondary income like parking fees and and tertiary income like the rents paid by on-site rental car agencies, restaurants, and gift shops also derive from fare-paying passengers.
Flight school tuition isnt cheap but the reality is that they pay only nominal fees and their activities are almost entirely subsidised by commercial traffic. The Airbus pilot is a petulant baby but from an operational perspective it makes no sense to have business travellers in limbo and an A319 burning fuel at the threshold while the runway is given over to teenagers who can learn just as much from being in a holding pattern.
His ego forgot that airplanes land on a runway.
Pilot is a uninformed aviator. The airport is a public airport open to all aircraft 1st come 1st served basis!
AAL2139 Entitled much or simply incompetent?
Wow! I've flown both N484ER (identified as ????4R and is mislabeled a C182 instead of a C172S) and N8262S (Just got back from a flight in it, actually, and it is accurately labeled in the video.)
Both of them are part of the local flight school :)
why would the controller prioritize traffic on the ground when he's managing aircraft in the pattern? The fuel state of the aircraft waiting to take off isn't his problem. Maybe the American pilot should have been a little apologetic about his fuel state and asked for priority nicely
Controllers are probably waiting for the day when planes are pilotless.
2 mins of having to go back for fuel?? What sort of hick operation are they running there ...2mins on the bloody ground! Ye Gods and little fishes.
You need enough fuel to fly to your destination and then your alternate plus 45 minutes for cruise then then 5 mins for holding short at a runway for smaller planes doing touch and go 😂 Part 91.167
@@-DM it was a Joke of course
Gotta love Americas finest aviators American Airlines Pilots! Twonk he was!
Minimum fuel kinda guy also known as SCUBA - he flies around with air in his tanks.
That pilot is a tool bag! He's just pissed he can't have more stripes on his uniform and hasn't gotten a piece in ages. Not the attitude a REAL professional has but what do I know...
This is a commercial airport, not a TOUCH AND GO FUCK FIELD!
🙄 this is an airport with flight schools and flying clubs which has more GA flights than commercial flights. FAA does not recognize commercial as having any sort of priority over GA. Arrogant pilot should be familiar with the airport, and take his attitude and go fuck himself
"This is a commercial airfield"... As opposed to... what exactly?
A touch and go fuck field, of course
Paw Paw's grass strip behind the still.
As opposed to a private airstrip or a local non towered airport where students would typically practice. Not saying he was in the right, just saying that is what he meant.
@@ThePrimeMinisterOfTheBlockbahahha
@@DustinDawindin the US, students practice at towered fields all the time.
Both sides need to chill
I genuinely have a problem with ATC allowing the American to take off rather than sending him back to the gate.
I don't care what the rights and wrongs of that were. On the ground waiting to depart and stationary you're bottom of the priority list for ATC, not because they're choosing to mess people around, but because you pose the lowest safety concern. If the ATC was not - or barely - up to the job, which may or may not have been the case, I don't have any context here, literally the most dangerous thing you as a listener on the frequency can do is knock confidence and eat time further by openly attacking the guy on radio.
As a flight instructor I can tell you there is a place to do touch and goes and an airport that has constant airline traffic is not it. I always took my students to a nearby small plane airport for touch and goes. It costs the airlines a small fortune in fuel and time wasted.
Well, we’re missing context on the student pilot’s side here. There has to be a reason that they chose to perform touch and gos there… perhaps the nearby airfield(s) were closed, inclement weather was in the area of alternative fields, or there may have been some time constraints on the instructor/student that day. Either way, delays are something that the airlines have to account and plan for in the course of normal operations.
Another aal tool
It's funny to read the comments as a non-pilot. My view is that the ATC should have told the small aircraft that they're going to have a commercial plane take off before the touch and go.
Why? They had to wait a couple of minutes. Why interrupt the student pilot from completing his already approved touch and go?
@@ronarnett4811 One person waiting two minutes vs 200 people waiting
@@countryfucius OK. So the commercial flight with even more passengers bumps those with less. The commercial freight airliner bumps the air freight planes with less valuable cargo. But that isn't how it works. You line up in sequence. Generally speaking first come, first served. As it should be or otherwise it would be chaos at airports and holding patterns.
@@ronarnett4811 It's a commercial airport. Practice at a small, local airport. This sounds like the cyclists of the streets that we all hate.
@@countryfucius Sure thing. It's not like it costs anything to build and maintain single use airports.
"FAA has entered the chat"
Years old video. REPOST.
FTG
Old video….
First of all A$$h0le, plan your fuel better and MSN is a commercial and GA airport; there are 2 ramps there, a flying club, student pilots and a significant amount of local GA traffic.
This was boring AF.
Cry babies
MSN is a real airport for real airplanes. If little 1 engine airplanes need to practice landings I am sure that there are smaller airports in the Madison area where they can practice.
I was thinking the same thing.
Hay dumb F U C K air carrier traffic account for only 15% of KMSN traffic with general aviation part 91 aircraft more than 50% of traffic so go eat a bag of D I C K S
The practice they need is working with controllers.
It's a commercial field? Flight training is a commercial activity. Arrogant prick pilot can get bent.
fyi small one engine planes ARE real planes... wake up...
With a comment like that I presume you aren’t a pilot in any way shape or form
If someone wants to practice touch and gos then they are absolutely the last priority. They can hold somewhere and practice that as well.
All aircraft are equal. You are not more equal.
You are so wrong! Retired ATC Tower Manager!
Wrong, ATC services are done on a first come, first serve basis.