I used R-21 fiberglass insulation in my 2x6 walls and two layers of R-30 (R-60 total) in my attic. My neighbor picked the foam insulation option. His cost more than twice what mine did. My electric bill is half his electric bill. My electric bill for a 3 story 3500 square foot frame home is $150 a month on average. I have two central units and two water heaters. I have 34 windows and 9 exterior doors. The house is all electric. My neighbor has a gas water heater and a gas stove. I know chicken houses that use foam insulation, they have gaps where the foam has shrank over the years. If that happens in a foam sealed home it will decrease the r-value as the home ages.
+Will Carter bullshit. closed cell does not shrink. and there is no way your neighbor paid double yours with open cell which is what you are yammering about.
Closed cell can shrink, especially if installed wrong, but I agree BS that his bill is 1/2 that of his neighbors. Maybe his neighbor has a hot tub with a hot wife and all he's got is a laptop and the internet.
On Alibaba, I can get spray foam in 50 gallon drums for 45c per sq foot of 1" of material. 12x12x1 R-6 foam. About $200 per cu meter was what the sales lady said. The low end machine costs about $4500 from China. In the states the material cost for spray foamers is about 65c a sq foot per 1 inch of material. You will pay at least $1 a square foot for 1" of material. Usually in a conditioned attic they use 3". Hope this helps.
Correct me if I wrong but does that mean, it's $144 in the states? Name a supplier that would give at that price, I like to do diy, also looking for closed cell
RubbinRobbin If in the states the material cost is $0.65, thats $0.20 higher than China, so figure 65/45 = 1.44*200 = $288 per cu meter in the states if you were able to go direct with a manufacturer. Problem with China was getting stuff through customs and having all the legal entities in place to be an importer. I ended up going with Roxul instead. This is not really a DIY technology, it's more a closed industry to contractors like trying to buy Refrigerant for AC Systems.
KarasCyborg thanks, It's a bit much but I'm considering buying a small kit just to foam the corners and seams, and than finishing off the rest with fiberglass.
RubbinRobbin Just get foam board cut & glue it, I think it works out to be $0.50 per sq-ft inch of material, I think the Polysychronate (sp) is the best R-value, somewhere around 5.5 per inch. Then go on amazon and get the commercial Great STuff canisters as well as a commercial gun and cleaner canister. These canisters screw into the gun, the stuff Home Depot wont work with these guns. More accurate and cans last longer. Plus cleaner allows you to clean gun out. Use this to seal seams of where you put the foam board.
KarasCyborg Thanks for the info, How do you feel about the foam board compared to r-30 fiberglass ins? I only speak of the r-30 fg because it's pretty cheap roll and has a higher R-value. Although I have read that foam board is excellent for walk-in boxes, Just looking for cost effective solutions. for the ceiling, walls, and floors.
0:48 to 2:48 gives 5 examples of off-setting the high cost of foam installation. Additional examples they failed to mention include: 6) don't buy your daily M-F $5 Starbucks coffee for 50 weeks out of the year...savings of $1250. 7) mow your own lawn every week for 6 months at a savings of $35/week for a total of $910. 8) Cut your $175/week grocery bill down to $150/week for 52 weeks for a savings of $1300. Wow, it looks like we just collected $3460 and will have the money to afford Foam Insulation Installation!!! It's like getting it done for free!!! Man o' man...I hate these types of BS sales approaches and the ones depicted in the video!
During an entire historic home renovation project, I had to remove blown in cellulose that amounted to maybe r-13 in the walls and r-40 in the attic. I replaced it with open cell spray foam and my heating bills for the following winter are nearly half than the previous winter. Since the home is historic I kept the old windows and doors, and not to mention the home has eight functional fire places!
This HomeEnergyNow probably lives in the southern states and sells old insulation. Don't know about you but here in Manitoba, electricity is cheap, i used to do home inspections and about 85% of the homes in our city have woodchips that settle, newpaper, cellulose or asbestos for insulation. Spray foam is a little more costly to have done, i helped a friend gut his house last year and thats what he had done. 50 year old house is air tight, solid, warm and soundproof.
+Brooke Marcoot - it's the high heat INSIDE the attic that tends to break down asphalt shingles, Prevent the attic from heating to 140+ degrees F and you greatly reduce any shingle degradation without the need for additional venting.
That's incorrect, you need to cool the back side of the roof deck to extend the life of your shingles. The heat in the attic is from the back side of the roof deck and it doing what it's so pose to do. By allowing cooler air in through your soffit, you cool your roof down and extend the life of your shingles.
The typical spray foam insulated home falls in the range of 0.10 to 0.20 ACH. These homes experience an exchange of air every five to 10 hours. The reduction in heating and cooling loads is significant, and the increased comfort is substantial
The average home in America built in the last 20 years will fall in the range of 0.35 to 0.70 ACH under normal wind and temperature conditions, meaning the air inside of the house is replaced by outside air as often as roughly every 90 minutes in leaky homes and up to roughly every three hours in tighter homes.
what about the oxygen trapped IN FRONT of the foam and IN BACK of the wall board? isn't this just a channel to feed FIRE since the cavity isn't completely filled? if iso foam is r 7 per inch ..2 inch would be r 14 and the 1/2' would be r 3.5 which equals r 17.5 ...how are you getting r 19 for 2 "?
unbelievably DIY kits cost about 30% MORE than hiring a contractor, sounds like the foam manufacturers have some kind of scam deal going with contractors. It should not cost more than about $500 absolute max to DIY spray foam 1000sf 2" thick which is only R13 BTW. It would cost roughly $3000+ to do it or about $2000 for a contractor to do it. They are charging what the "market will bear" using sales tactics like on this video. Charging you for what you "might save" in the future.
Hey here is a radical idea to make foam more affordable. Stop charging a 1000% mark up on the material cost! Material cost of the foam to do a 1000 sf 2" thick is probably less than $200, yet it would cost over $3000 in DIY kits and almost the same to hire a contractor, yep DIY kits is actually MORE expensive. What we need is federal regulations making it illegal to charge more than 200% markup on anything.
There seem to be a lot of knowledge on the subject of spray foam on this page setting all the negative comments aside I would like to ask some questions. I want to reach a minimum of R 30 in a 6" vertical wall and as close to that on a flat room with only a 4" space. What are my best options. As far as kits I found Tiger Foam at $1375.00 to do an 8'x16'x6" vertical wall that would give me an R 36 rating and a 9'6"x16 x 4" flat roof.that would give me an R 26 rating. The reason that I am considering doing it myself is 1. because I am more the capable and 2. I received a quote for the same space at $2730.00 using open cell foam and only giving me an R rating of 20 on the flat roof and 11 on the vertical wall. I was not impressed. Also, I am unaware of the breakdown of foam vs other insulation methods over time for example 10 - 20 years. Anyone have information on longevity of foam over a long period of time in a climate like South Florida. Any information is very much appreciated. Thank you
i suspect also that suppliers of the foam has govt backing and therefore will restrict any other competition........we do not live in a capitalist system, period.
+Carskinify No what we need is people to stop wasting and being selfish arseholes! Just because you can pay for it doesnt mean its ok for you to waste! We find ways to get more efficient vehicle engines so WTF do idiots do, they drive twiceas much and much 2x far...We find ways to improve energy and WTF do morons do..They start consuming 3x the energy. I save start laws where a person can only drive a limit of 20 miles to work or only live in shelter the size based on how many live in it.Get ride of this BS made up money system because its clear people will only keep right on abusing! Humans are selfish wasteful species that really need to be taught painful lesson!How the hell does it make any sense for a family of 2 to live in a damn 3k and up Sq Ft home, Some moron that drives a huge over sized gas guzzling SUV all around everywhere just for one/two damn people or some idiot or teen who cant pass a CDL but got a diesel computer alternated truck pumping raw diesel exhaust with stacks in the bed so they can feel like they are a truck driver , never pulling a load with truck ever!. Problem is human GREED period! Call it whatever you want, cost/supply&demand/economy....Its GREED period but in the end there is not one reason(other than greed) why everyone could not have energy efficient homes, cars and power.Problem is selfish humans and the need to try to always out do each other at any cost!Its very clear humans will never do the right thing unless they are forced to with laws and rules!
how can 2.5 inches give R-19???? air tight spray foam is R.6.2 per inch not R-7.6. as matter of fact there is no brand that give 6.7 per inch, the highest is 6.9
+Tariq Abou-Adma Given rigid foam board is 7.8R inch they did in fact had it 2 years ago, even 10 yeas ago..Its made with same process only in 4x8 sheets in controlled environment.Given there is no way to spray exactly 2.5" thick(unless controlled or you go back and remove some-makes no sense why you would but) you could in fact have r19 in some areas in a 2x4 wall even higher....The 1/2" wood/sheetrock also accounts for some small R value too. Maybe your forgetting about the .5" and only thinking of 2" thick..
We went with the Spray Foam, which also provided a vapor barrier, and was well worth the extra expense: 6 inch walls "new addition" spray Foam insulation "original house" Batten and Sprayed insulation *Foam Wins.* We attribute part of the Foam superiority to it's ability to seal air-leaks and to fill areas more effectively then with battens or the sprayed insulation.
I did use blower doors as well as infared on homes, we found even with solid insulation there was still lots of thermal bridging or loss of heat directly through the framing. New home technology is getting pretty good its the older one we find harder to retrofit whithout spending a fortune. Its hard to get builders and build your own home without waiting a year or three, its costs plenty of cash. Its sad to see the common consumer is so undereducated to such a large investment.
I believe you are misinformed, ASHRAE standard 62.2 and 62.3 only states required ventilation if no mechanical device is used, where as IRC states that the mechanical device needs to be capable of ACH of .35. hvac is for ventilation, however it also has: h, ac, which stands for heating and air conditioning why would you poke holes in your home to bring in unconditioned air when you can have it all running through you hvac system?
No one is arguing the hvac and a/c sizing. No one spray foams their attic either, R-50 is code here. I have built a house. I also hold a mechanical technologist ticket, millwright and a machinist journeyman ticket. So i'd like to say i can tell the difference when people cut corners, carpentry is easy yet Canada is hurting for skilled trades people. As far as proud to live here? The winters are cold. We make the best of it, your proud to live in that poor, corrupt wasteland you call America?
funny you say that... considering florida and texas have adopted spray foam as code... and any good engineer has it in their plans.. if you've had experience you claim, you would understand how closed cell spray foam is a huge innovation in home construction... if you want to have an intelligent debate why don't you send me a technical data sheet on fiberglass and well compare it to closed cell foam.. instead of you spouting off random numbers and uncredited claims
With all the immigration housing is at a majoy shortage. But your right, US is in a scary situation, I wonder where my tax dollars go, our politicians seem to think its the wild west still, they all lign there pockets then bail. 40% of my income goes to tax, our hospitals are overcrowded, our roads are third world in some major cities(weather doesn't help) Climb the side of a mountain with a 320hp sled and you may change your thoughts about Canadian winters.
Let me guess you do the home energy audits? You talk like a suit that took an 8 week class on building science, the same one I took. Boy those Massachusetts winters must get chilly. The problem with your fiberglass and foam insulation is that this Country, much like yours is full on nitwits for contractors that cut corners, don't do the job properly, hence mold and moisture and rot. Spray foam eliminates all these issues when done right. If i were to build a house today thats what i'd use.
Spray foam penetrates all the little cracks and crevices that you can not reach with poly and fiberglass, In a 2x4 construction older home, if i were to gut it, i would use spray foam. If it was a 2x6 construction and i could achieve an R-20 value in the walls then fiberglass would be ok. You've obviously never been to Canada with your nieve comments, so don't try and preach about building science up here when you don't know what works in minus 50 degree C weather. Theatticshouldalwaysbevented
![POLYCAT - ข้อความรูปยิ้ม [Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lBhIgPGCgbI/mqdefault.jpg)
I used R-21 fiberglass insulation in my 2x6 walls and two layers of R-30 (R-60 total) in my attic. My neighbor picked the foam insulation option. His cost more than twice what mine did. My electric bill is half his electric bill. My electric bill for a 3 story 3500 square foot frame home is $150 a month on average. I have two central units and two water heaters. I have 34 windows and 9 exterior doors. The house is all electric. My neighbor has a gas water heater and a gas stove.
I know chicken houses that use foam insulation, they have gaps where the foam has shrank over the years. If that happens in a foam sealed home it will decrease the r-value as the home ages.
BS
Spray foam is good for air sealing. It should be used as a first layer, and than fiberglass would go over it preferably under radiant foil..
+Will Carter bullshit. closed cell does not shrink. and there is no way your neighbor paid double yours with open cell which is what you are yammering about.
Closed cell can shrink, especially if installed wrong, but I agree BS that his bill is 1/2 that of his neighbors. Maybe his neighbor has a hot tub with a hot wife and all he's got is a laptop and the internet.
On Alibaba, I can get spray foam in 50 gallon drums for 45c per sq foot of 1" of material. 12x12x1 R-6 foam. About $200 per cu meter was what the sales lady said. The low end machine costs about $4500 from China. In the states the material cost for spray foamers is about 65c a sq foot per 1 inch of material. You will pay at least $1 a square foot for 1" of material. Usually in a conditioned attic they use 3". Hope this helps.
Correct me if I wrong but does that mean, it's $144 in the states?
Name a supplier that would give at that price, I like to do diy, also looking for closed cell
RubbinRobbin If in the states the material cost is $0.65, thats $0.20 higher than China, so figure 65/45 = 1.44*200 = $288 per cu meter in the states if you were able to go direct with a manufacturer. Problem with China was getting stuff through customs and having all the legal entities in place to be an importer. I ended up going with Roxul instead. This is not really a DIY technology, it's more a closed industry to contractors like trying to buy Refrigerant for AC Systems.
KarasCyborg thanks, It's a bit much but I'm considering buying a small kit just to foam the corners and seams, and than finishing off the rest with fiberglass.
RubbinRobbin Just get foam board cut & glue it, I think it works out to be $0.50 per sq-ft inch of material, I think the Polysychronate (sp) is the best R-value, somewhere around 5.5 per inch. Then go on amazon and get the commercial Great STuff canisters as well as a commercial gun and cleaner canister. These canisters screw into the gun, the stuff Home Depot wont work with these guns. More accurate and cans last longer. Plus cleaner allows you to clean gun out. Use this to seal seams of where you put the foam board.
KarasCyborg Thanks for the info, How do you feel about the foam board compared to r-30 fiberglass ins? I only speak of the r-30 fg because it's pretty cheap roll and has a higher R-value. Although I have read that foam board is excellent for walk-in boxes, Just looking for cost effective solutions. for the ceiling, walls, and floors.
0:48 to 2:48 gives 5 examples of off-setting the high cost of foam installation. Additional examples they failed to mention include: 6) don't buy your daily M-F $5 Starbucks coffee for 50 weeks out of the year...savings of $1250. 7) mow your own lawn every week for 6 months at a savings of $35/week for a total of $910. 8) Cut your $175/week grocery bill down to $150/week for 52 weeks for a savings of $1300. Wow, it looks like we just collected $3460 and will have the money to afford Foam Insulation Installation!!! It's like getting it done for free!!! Man o' man...I hate these types of BS sales approaches and the ones depicted in the video!
Lol...btw...there is another alternative for foam affordability and it only requires one thing to budget for. Renting instead of owning a home!
During an entire historic home renovation project, I had to remove blown in cellulose that amounted to maybe r-13 in the walls and r-40 in the attic. I replaced it with open cell spray foam and my heating bills for the following winter are nearly half than the previous winter. Since the home is historic I kept the old windows and doors, and not to mention the home has eight functional fire places!
We don't care!
This HomeEnergyNow probably lives in the southern states and sells old insulation. Don't know about you but here in Manitoba, electricity is cheap, i used to do home inspections and about 85% of the homes in our city have woodchips that settle, newpaper, cellulose or asbestos for insulation. Spray foam is a little more costly to have done, i helped a friend gut his house last year and thats what he had done. 50 year old house is air tight, solid, warm and soundproof.
Attic vents are still needed to help cool the shingles in a roof or your shingles will bubble up and the rocks will start falling off
+Brooke Marcoot Incorrect...
+Brooke Marcoot - it's the high heat INSIDE the attic that tends to break down asphalt shingles, Prevent the attic from heating to 140+ degrees F and you greatly reduce any shingle degradation without the need for additional venting.
That's incorrect, you need to cool the back side of the roof deck to extend the life of your shingles. The heat in the attic is from the back side of the roof deck and it doing what it's so pose to do. By allowing cooler air in through your soffit, you cool your roof down and extend the life of your shingles.
The typical spray foam insulated home falls
in the range of 0.10 to 0.20 ACH. These homes experience
an exchange of air every five to 10 hours. The reduction in
heating and cooling loads is significant, and the increased
comfort is substantial
Thank you so much for your input thru-out this discussion.
The average home in America built in the last 20 years will
fall in the range of 0.35 to 0.70 ACH under normal wind and
temperature conditions, meaning the air inside of the house
is replaced by outside air as often as roughly every 90 minutes
in leaky homes and up to roughly every three hours in
tighter homes.
what about the oxygen trapped IN FRONT of the foam and IN BACK of the wall board? isn't this just a channel to feed FIRE since the cavity isn't completely filled? if iso foam is r 7 per inch ..2 inch would be r 14 and the 1/2' would be r 3.5 which equals r 17.5 ...how are you getting r 19 for 2 "?
no need for ventilation? are you fucking kidding me? Waterproof or not that shit will get mouldy
& plus it MIGHT even get
*moldy ?
colour and mould are examples of words that are spelled differently in England than in America. It's not incorrect to use either spelling.
Bert Hull
Thanks for Clarafying Burt, how's Erny ?
@@bRadicalmagic1 Emy became a trans
You should never insulate up to your sheeting, you need ventilation to cool the back of your sheeting so you don't cook your shingles.
well i guess the foam will reduce the heat from transmitting so but your right how does the shingles keep cool if they are not vented from behind ???
You are correct that homes can be too tight. Too tight can cause nose-bleed. At least, that's what I've read...
what happen to asphalt shingle if there is no ventilation at all? Will it overheat?
$500 was the cost for just the perimeter of the face board inside my basement at 2" thickness or the whole wall?
how does the "hot roof system" not destroy your roofing material? I thought the ventilation was to cool the roof...
can I do it myself or do I need an estimate??
unbelievably DIY kits cost about 30% MORE than hiring a contractor, sounds like the foam manufacturers have some kind of scam deal going with contractors. It should not cost more than about $500 absolute max to DIY spray foam 1000sf 2" thick which is only R13 BTW. It would cost roughly $3000+ to do it or about $2000 for a contractor to do it. They are charging what the "market will bear" using sales tactics like on this video. Charging you for what you "might save" in the future.
Hey here is a radical idea to make foam more affordable. Stop charging a 1000% mark up on the material cost! Material cost of the foam to do a 1000 sf 2" thick is probably less than $200, yet it would cost over $3000 in DIY kits and almost the same to hire a contractor, yep DIY kits is actually MORE expensive. What we need is federal regulations making it illegal to charge more than 200% markup on anything.
There seem to be a lot of knowledge on the subject of spray foam on this page setting all the negative comments aside I would like to ask some questions. I want to reach a minimum of R 30 in a 6" vertical wall and as close to that on a flat room with only a 4" space. What are my best options. As far as kits I found Tiger Foam at $1375.00 to do an 8'x16'x6" vertical wall that would give me an R 36 rating and a 9'6"x16 x 4" flat roof.that would give me an R 26 rating. The reason that I am considering doing it myself is 1. because I am more the capable and 2. I received a quote for the same space at $2730.00 using open cell foam and only giving me an R rating of 20 on the flat roof and 11 on the vertical wall. I was not impressed. Also, I am unaware of the breakdown of foam vs other insulation methods over time for example 10 - 20 years. Anyone have information on longevity of foam over a long period of time in a climate like South Florida. Any information is very much appreciated. Thank you
what company is cheapest to use ?? I am in Rochester ny
i suspect also that suppliers of the foam has govt backing and therefore will restrict any other competition........we do not live in a capitalist system, period.
What we really need is super cheap energy so we don't have to worry about all this.
+Carskinify No what we need is people to stop wasting and being selfish arseholes! Just because you can pay for it doesnt mean its ok for you to waste! We find ways to get more efficient vehicle engines so WTF do idiots do, they drive twiceas much and much 2x far...We find ways to improve energy and WTF do morons do..They start consuming 3x the energy. I save start laws where a person can only drive a limit of 20 miles to work or only live in shelter the size based on how many live in it.Get ride of this BS made up money system because its clear people will only keep right on abusing! Humans are selfish wasteful species that really need to be taught painful lesson!How the hell does it make any sense for a family of 2 to live in a damn 3k and up Sq Ft home, Some moron that drives a huge over sized gas guzzling SUV all around everywhere just for one/two damn people or some idiot or teen who cant pass a CDL but got a diesel computer alternated truck pumping raw diesel exhaust with stacks in the bed so they can feel like they are a truck driver , never pulling a load with truck ever!. Problem is human GREED period! Call it whatever you want, cost/supply&demand/economy....Its GREED period but in the end there is not one reason(other than greed) why everyone could not have energy efficient homes, cars and power.Problem is selfish humans and the need to try to always out do each other at any cost!Its very clear humans will never do the right thing unless they are forced to with laws and rules!
Wrong what we need is more efficiencies so we don't need so much energy silly
I'll have remember Air Tight for when I buy my Shipping Container to make it into a home.
how can 2.5 inches give R-19????
air tight spray foam is R.6.2 per inch not R-7.6. as matter of fact there is no brand that give 6.7 per inch, the highest is 6.9
So, the spray foam only provides 2.5 x 6.2 = R15.5 ?
+Tariq Abou-Adma Given rigid foam board is 7.8R inch they did in fact had it 2 years ago, even 10 yeas ago..Its made with same process only in 4x8 sheets in controlled environment.Given there is no way to spray exactly 2.5" thick(unless controlled or you go back and remove some-makes no sense why you would but) you could in fact have r19 in some areas in a 2x4 wall even higher....The 1/2" wood/sheetrock also accounts for some small R value too. Maybe your forgetting about the .5" and only thinking of 2" thick..
We went with the Spray Foam, which also provided a vapor barrier, and was well worth the extra expense:
6 inch walls
"new addition" spray Foam insulation
"original house" Batten and Sprayed insulation
*Foam Wins.*
We attribute part of the Foam superiority to it's ability to seal air-leaks and to fill areas more effectively then with battens or the sprayed insulation.
I did use blower doors as well as infared on homes, we found even with solid insulation there was still lots of thermal bridging or loss of heat directly through the framing. New home technology is getting pretty good its the older one we find harder to retrofit whithout spending a fortune. Its hard to get builders and build your own home without waiting a year or three, its costs plenty of cash. Its sad to see the common consumer is so undereducated to such a large investment.
no attic ventilation, - at all!?
I believe you are misinformed, ASHRAE standard 62.2 and 62.3 only states required ventilation if no mechanical device is used, where as IRC states that the mechanical device needs to be capable of ACH of .35. hvac is for ventilation, however it also has: h, ac, which stands for heating and air conditioning why would you poke holes in your home to bring in unconditioned air when you can have it all running through you hvac system?
nice
"Should" cost that much, but will cost far more. DIY kits are a major ripoff and not worth it all at.
why the hell cant we use this where i work at instead of fiberglass i hate that shit
No one is arguing the hvac and a/c sizing. No one spray foams their attic either, R-50 is code here. I have built a house. I also hold a mechanical technologist ticket, millwright and a machinist journeyman ticket. So i'd like to say i can tell the difference when people cut corners, carpentry is easy yet Canada is hurting for skilled trades people. As far as proud to live here? The winters are cold. We make the best of it, your proud to live in that poor, corrupt wasteland you call
America?
funny you say that... considering florida and texas have adopted spray foam as code... and any good engineer has it in their plans.. if you've had experience you claim, you would understand how closed cell spray foam is a huge innovation in home construction... if you want to have an intelligent debate why don't you send me a technical data sheet on fiberglass and well compare it to closed cell foam.. instead of you spouting off random numbers and uncredited claims
With all the immigration housing is at a majoy shortage. But your right, US is in a scary situation, I wonder where my tax dollars go, our politicians seem to think its the wild west still, they all lign there pockets then bail. 40% of my income goes to tax, our hospitals are overcrowded, our roads are third world in some major cities(weather doesn't help) Climb the side of a mountain with a 320hp sled and you may change your thoughts about Canadian winters.
Let me guess you do the home energy audits? You talk like a suit that took an 8 week class on building science, the same one I took. Boy those Massachusetts winters must get chilly. The problem with your fiberglass and foam insulation is that this Country, much like yours is full on nitwits for contractors that cut corners, don't do the job properly, hence mold and moisture and rot. Spray foam eliminates all these issues when done right. If i were to build a house today thats what i'd use.
Spray foam penetrates all the little cracks and crevices that you can not reach with poly and fiberglass, In a 2x4 construction older home, if i were to gut it, i would use spray foam. If it was a 2x6 construction and i could achieve an R-20 value in the walls then fiberglass would be ok. You've obviously never been to Canada with your nieve comments, so don't try and preach about building science up here when you don't know what works in minus 50 degree C weather. Theatticshouldalwaysbevented