New Plane - Surprise Problem Forces Abort Back To Base - Check Yo Checklists
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มี.ค. 2024
- On one hand, I had a minor emergency with my new plane, and I’m pretty happy with the way I handled it and did the whole flying safe thing for real.
On the other hand, it wasn’t a hardware failure with the plane and was entirely down to an undocumented control configuration, with an unlabeled key switch. I should have caught this earlier if I was paying attention, on the Cirrus there’s a requirement to check the electrical power during the run up, but not on this plane, I think I’m adding it to my checklists.
Beyond this, the plane has been great to fly, we’ve managed to fix the right screen, which had been written off by the avionics people we approached. The biggest remaining problem is the right wingtip nav light isn’t working, and as far as we can tell there’s a broken or disconnected wire from the time the wing was removed for transport. The final flight by the previous owner ended with the plane running out of fuel and landing in a field, and it’s likely that something wasn’t properly connected.
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Thanks to all the comments from experienced pilots and instructors, a number of you are quite rightfully warning of 'GetThereItis' after I decided to fly home, however there's a number of things that make the decision safer than implied - things I didn't mention in the video (I should have asked some of you guys first).
Firstly, the field we stopped at was 8miles from home, this was a 5 minute flight. There's a small cluster of airfields near Gnoss field - Petaluma, Sonoma Skypark, Schelville - all very close together.
The problem first announced itself while we were getting setup to land at Skypark, at the time I decided to continue with the plan to land rather than trying to diagnose it in the air, once on the ground we did some checks and decided the aircraft was operating correctly but only on battery power. We estimated base on the 16Ah battery we had at least half an hour of power left. We did decide that if the fuel pump wouldn't work for takeoff we'd abort at the field, since that's required for takeoff checklist.
While on the ground we asked ourselves would the flight be legal. While it had power the aircraft was still compliant with FAR 91.205 and the POH had a minimum equipment list which did not specify a working power source. The airspace was just outside the Mode-C veil for SFO, meaning a transponder & ADS-B out wasn't required.
Finally, we looked over at alternate resources that would be available in the event the power went out, the center GPS unit includes an internal backup battery and it could display ground speed, altitude and heading. And at low altitude my phone was working and able to display ADS-B traffic, so we'd still be able to get traffic alerts.
The difference between real pilots and armchair pilots, in other words.
I appreciate that it was technically legal, and arguably safe, however you were only 8 miles from your home airfield. The risk from an unknown electrical discharge problem is significantly higher than getting a ride back 8 miles to your home airport then sending your mechanic on a 20 minute journey to look at the plane.
Edit: To another extent, if your fuel pump is required equipment for takeoff, and you have a low voltage situation already...sure it works on the run up, it works at Vr, but now you're Vy and the pump dies.
I think the point myself and a number of other pilots are making here is you're compounding the getthereitis here. If you're willing to sacrifice safety for the most minor inconvenience you could have experienced, what will you do when you're stuck hours from home? When you encounter unexpected fog when you're 15 miles from home and aren't IFR rated/current?
Edit 2: When you uploaded this, you probably expected to get some criticism. Your research after the fact was great, and you discovered that realistically, there was no critical problem preventing you from flying the airplane. You look like you handle it well, and flying is extremely enjoyable, so keep having fun. That said, the vast majority of the comments here saying this was problematic behavior are from pilots. There's not a ton of GA pilots out there, and you being a fairly famous one means you unfortunately get held to a much higher standard.
Your defensiveness to these comments is good from a, "here's the thought process we used to arrive here" point of view. However, it's terrible from a learning prospective. Criticism might hurt the ego, refusing to learn from the criticisms, especially in GA, can kill you. No one here wants to read that news article.
You can also turn your iPhone sideways with Foreflight running , then bring up synthetic vision. It won't have the most accurate instruments, but any port in a storm.
Famous last words!
As a maintainer, I used to have to refer to the MEL (minimum equipment list) or MESL in the military. Those things are pretty well thought out. I think you made the right call. Safety should be paramount, but there is a point where it becomes overblown. If you really wanted to be safe as possible, you just wouldn't fly.
NGL if I was an air traffic controller and heard Scott Manley on the radio it would kinda wierd me out at first. And once I got over that I'd have to resist the continual urge to tell him to "Fly Safe".
If Scott is leaving your airspace the only appropriate sendoff is Fly Safe. Its also professional enough to actually say to a pilot on air
Yeah, Scott can fly a plane ✈️
I see some Dymo Tape labelling in your future Scott! Fly Safe!
@@AaronTureRonAbrahamsson157 in this case, he flew recklessly...
@@christianwendt7852 oh my god
Glad you are safe Scott. But please remember “it is better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground.”
You had the benefit that I did over four decades ago - having an instructor along when you had your first "something is wrong". In my case I was working on my instrument rating and flying from El Monte to Santa Monica (in the Los Angeles area). It was solid IFR, and the clearance was essentially follow V186 westbound until intercepting the ILS at Santa Monica. Of course ATC Burbank approach was vectoring around the corner. That was fine until we had a total voice radio failure. Once we really determined that neither radio was working, we continued to follow our clearance, dialed up 7700 for a minute then 7600. We made blind transmissions of status in case transmit was working (it wasn't). When we got close to Santa Monica, the runway appeared out of the clouds, and very shortly a bright green light from the tower - DAMN that light looked good!
A few years later I had another far more scary in flight emergency - but it turned out OK.
Glad it worked OK for you.
Hi Scott, I maintain a bunch of aircraft for a flight club here in the Bay Area, I know you are catching a lot of flak in the comments for flying with a mechanical failure but I agree with their sentiment. I would for sure tell one of our members not to fly with an alternator failure. You just never know if it is a simple issue like brushes going bad or something bigger like a broken terminal coming off the battery side. It needs to be looked over before making a ferry flight. We all make mistakes, this is just my two cents
I think the problem with this plane was that none of the owners were aware that the checklist they were using was in error. I agree that the warning/indicator of low/decreasing voltage is an indication, possibly of an alternator issue, but in this case it was an indication that the alternator was _not_ engaged to power the instruments and charge the instrument battery. The diagnostic of checking the systems, reviewing the pre-flight and operational checklists against the aircraft owners manual (which may have other translation errors, so that may need to undergo further review) then reviewing the wiring diagram, and finding the information that was missing from checklist(s) and manual, and documenting the missing information, updating the checklist, and passing that information on to the other owners of the plane shows a far deeper interest in the pilot solving the problem than the pilot reporting the problem to some maintenance tech, not at his home airfield, that the pilot hopes knows more about the plane than the pilot should.
And whether it's a dymo or a brother label maker, or someone with a penchant for etching bras plates to fit to the key switch assembly and provide a more permanent mark of the switch positions, I suspect that's going to happen and let pilots know one more thing that they need to make sure is correct before they take off. (At least I don't expect anyone is going to be trying to start the plane in flight for most normal situations.
I fly all the time with an 'alternator failure' mainly because there is no engine in my GLIDER. Mechanical gauges, portable GPS if I want to use it, radio, and an emergency backpack parachute. I have flown several hundred miles in one flight, and reached 24,000 feet during another. Oxygen equipped, of course.
@@paulmoffat9306The view from up at 24k must have been awesome!
Well said and yes he is still learning. I am happy he made it through the experience intact.
No one asked and the joke isn't funny, sorry@paulmoffat9306
I always say "Once you take off, you will land, it's all a matter of style (and whether or not you can reuse the equipment)"
Love your channel Scott! I'm also a pilot - low hours as well - I want to recommend a tip that will help your experience, enjoyment and performance as a pilot... loosen your grip on the stick. fly with your fingers and your wrists. Especially in a light sport. You'll then experience a 'think and it happens' control input and wont over input your control and will feel the bird a lot better. Hope this helps. Love your energy and passion! Cheers bud.
Yes, I noticed that as well, he has a death grip on that stick. With fingertips on it he would have a better feel for trim issues also. Great video.
I'm only guessing from other videos but it seems like the simple all-mechanical controls on these Eastern European made aircraft make it necessary to have a fairly firm grip. There does not seem to be enough leverage in the controls for a light touch at least as my vast armchair piloting experience can tell 😜
Glad you got back safe Scott. Still perhaps it would have been wiser to put off the return flight, park it and take a cab home until you figured out the issue. The risk of flying without comms or surveillance equipment, let alone instruments, even such a short familiar hop, would have been enough to dissuade me in the high-traffic area I fly in. Always better to err on the side of caution. From a fellow private pilot.
Hear hear!
That’s the most Lanceair looking non-Lanceair I’ve ever seen…
I wish it were a Lancair
Lanceairs are sweet
@@scottmanley Given the accident rate numbers for Lancairs cited on the Complete Walkaround channel, I bet your insurance provider is happy it's not!
I thought it was a lancair at first too.
You need a lot more hours under your belt for a lancair its catastrophically unforgiving. Landing that without a working airspeed indicator will kill you.
I have to tend to agree with everyone else here, Scott. If I notice that the alternator is suddenly not charging the battery, I'm leaving it on the ground, no matter how short of a flight I have back home.
Anywho, I'm just glad the reason for your problem was as simple as an erroneous checklist!
In aviation, losing power is not losing electrical power. Any pilot that says he’s losing power he’ll mean that his losing engine power.
But clicks. It certainly fooled all the certified flight instructors in the comments.
The title is clearly intentional
In aviation it may always refer to losing engine power, but in social media it is clickbait. And in Scott's case, his plane needs a lot of clicks ($$$) to maintain operations :)
I concur with you sir ... I was taught 43 years ago as a youngster, you report you have Electrical issues when your electrical system is misbehaving and that you need to get on the ground soon.
Telling the world you are "losing power" means the big donk up the front is no longer behaving reliably and you MUST get on the ground ASP.
But Scott, you should NOT have taken off again until you had the issue figured out.
The back up battery is let you get down soonest and safely Scott. It is NOT a means taking to the air again when you have no idea how much life is left in it.
@@CumulusGranitis That's ridiculous. You don't need a battery to fly VFR
I had something very similar on a motorbike. It had two settings for the headlight, low and high. With the headlight on low the battery would gradually run down, but it would charge up with some daytime riding with the headlight off.
But ... then I discovered that the battery did NOT run down with the headlight on high. Duh!!??
And it took reference to the wiring diagram to discover that the headlight switch didn't only switch the bulb, but also in the high setting it switched in an additional winding in the generator so generated more power .... not mentioned anywhere in the words in the manual.
Should brief no-flaps landing if you're not sure you're gonna have an airspeed indicator. Keep flying safe, Scott
You got a bad case of "get-there-itis" on this flight. You prioritised getting to your destination over safety.
If you had lost electricals (and therefore all flight instruments) during your return flight - especially in an aircraft you're still getting used to - you could have ended up in a deadly situation real fast.
Fly safe, Scott. Even if that means that you don't fly that day!
Geez, hard to avoid that unlabeled, undocumented trap. Although I'm surprised you weren't worried about a possible electrical fire, that's always a big concern for me when an electrical system is showing unexplained abnormal behavior.
New fear unlocked...
I’ve trained a lot of pilots on electronic pfds. I’m super excited to see you flying, but I see you making a mistake that a lot of others make. Be sure to keep your head in a swivel. Your instructor did a good job of looking out for traffic, while your head was locked into the display. This may have been intentional, but be careful not to get focused inside too much. I’ve lost at least one friend to a midair. I love your plane. Stay safe!!
You might want to check your documentation. The POH available on the internet has "Starter key INST. " and "Starter key Hold START, after engine started release to CHARGE
" in the engine starting checklist.
Also, it's hard to see what it is, but one of the lamps above the PFD might be the "CHARGE" warning lamp, trying to alert you that something's not working.
It also seems that the instructor was not familiar with this specific type of plane, otherwise he would have caught the mistake.
Apart from that, starting a flight with the real possibility of losing all instrumentation is one of the decisions that would have people ask "how stupid can you be" after an accident. You were lucky that nothing happened, but it was not a smart decision. But I'm sure you can learn a lot from this flight.
The charge light only illuminates when the battery is charging from the engine, the only time I've seen it come on is when starting the engine.
@@scottmanley From what I found "Loss of alternator output is detected through a zero or minus values reading on the ammeter and warning lamp
CHARGE coming on", which seems to fit your description of it coming on during engine start
@@christianwendt7852 Beat me to it. The only time it is NOT charging from the engine, is startup. I've seen many diode failures (rectifier) on those.
Feels like the key positions not being labeled should have been something you fixed immediately. Sorta feels mandatory. Live and learn!
Totally understand your desire to just get it home but that was a bad call. I only fly paragliders but have a similar feeling whenever I've walked for an hour to launch and find the conditions aren't quite right. The right decision is the long walk back or in your case a taxi, or perhaps an hour's research in a cafe and you'd have found the solution.
More please :) I hope you never have any emergencies but a video every time anything unusual happens would be great
"you are doing math???" the instructor getting manley'd cracked me up hahaha
7:23 "Um... If this fails, the engine will keep going, right?" 😅
"I don't want to be stuck at Petaluma with this.................." Said the pilot with get there'ltus.
Especially on such a short flight, better safe than on the local news with nothing but your tail section sticking out of the ground.
That is a very good point, I personally would be uncomfortable flying a plane with no stand by instruments and knowing I have only a battery running my equipment.
“I cannae change the laws of physics.”
@@yankee1376 "I just cannae do it Captain, I don't have the power!"
I'm going to voice a caution here, sounds like you took a problem into the air from the safety of ground. Because you wanted it at your home base.
Kinda sounds like getthereitis. Could it have been safer to park up, take some time, investigate, and if unsolved at least charge the battery externally to 100% for the short flight to minimise risk?
Low hours, ekectrical problem, and flap speed/slippy plane probably meets Mike Pateys '3 issues no-go' threshold?
I am surprised that your instructor was happy for you to take off, even for the short return flight, with the potential to loose all flight instruments, including airspeed. And surprised that there was no 'charging' indicator light.
There are some lights illuminated, but it seems hard to find pictures from this cockpit layout that would allow to decipher what they say. There were really bad decision made in this flight. It was less "fly safe", more "nothing bad could happen to me", which has killed a lot of pilots.
i guess it would be better to have an instructor present when something like that happens, given that such a problem could happen anytime you´re in the air and when you´re on your own.
Well, it would devolve to VFR from 1924, when pretty much the instrumentation was the pilot and his eyes. Would suggest a good upgrade would be to add in a standby compass, standby altimeter and a standby airspeed indicator, as a minimum flight instrument list, that will help in case the ancient Garmin decides to brain fart, as they are well known to do with some combinations of a complex map and some locations. All 3 can be bought used, and simply sent in for a certification, and then the standby compass will just need to be swung with the aircraft in flight ready configuration, to adjust the 8 cardinal point compensation screws.
Memories of 3 hours in the swamp, in the compass bay, acting as the intercom link between my instructor melting in the rear, and the 2 pilots and flight engineer melting in the cockpit. After the 10 full circles to get the newly repaired fluxgate sensor aligned perfectly, the others decided to drive back on the tow tractor, while I elected to stay on board, and fly back with the 3 in front. They still had 3 hours of fuel left, but only needed an extra hour to complete flight hours for the month, so they did a little trip out to sea, and there I got to see them doing an aerobatics show with the 16 ton helicopter, doing all the daring moves, that are limited to 0G to +3G, that are permitted with a helicopter when you want to avoid chopping your own tail off, or having the main rotors separate. Sitting in the door, hand through the strap, and looking up at the ocean above me, and the sky past my feet, as they did a few barrel rolls around 1km offshore, with the closest place to swim to being the offshore oil platform. 2 very happy and now cool pilots.
The instructor is hinting about the danger but gets talked back into flying by the owner/operator who 'doesn't want to be stuck'. It worked out fine in this case, the thought process was understandable, but the CRM and the gethereitis are holes in the cheese for the future.
Lose not loose.
I flew a plane once. A little Cessna. My Uncle flew A-4 Phantoms for the US Marine Corp and after his service he became a provate pilot, doing aerial mapping for some company, among other things. He asked me to go, I was 13-14 at the time. It was from Reed-Hillview Airport in San Jose. Great times!
Great video Scott. The charge position of the key is something I have never come across before interesting but I don't fly any light sports. I would say that the takeoff to return was sketchy. Unknown error in an unfamiliar aircraft that you have safely on the ground is pretty good luck. It's one thing to be on the ground wishing you were.flying quite another flying and wishing you were on the ground. Stay safe love your stuff.
First order of business....get a label maker and correct the over sight of properly labelling the key switch. Nice airplane! Cheers from Winnipeg.
The adhesive will get sticky and come off over time with heat and sun. He needs an etched aluminum plate with callouts, like on Cessna and Piper mag switches. He can do the graphics on his computer and have a local shop do the rest.
Perfect ending... and dont forget to label the key switch
Yes, that mag/start switch needs an etched background plate with callouts clearly labeled. I'm surprised there is no label at all. That would never pass US certification. I would get that done ASAP.
@@bernieschiff5919 Right? That's what I thought. The fact that the key position doesn't come labeled straight out of the factory seems like a major design flaw, and not a small, inconsequential one, either. I wonder how the plane was approved for production seeing as how aerospace is generally thought to be very tightly regulated.
Now I won’t say I’ve never flown an aircraft with an issue to a place that’s more convenient to have maintenance done. I would not suggest putting it on TH-cam. The FAA could be a stickler about this because you noticed the problem on the ground and then took off again. Glad it was an easy fix though!
He didn’t. Watch at 07:44 again.
For me, the issue here was that there was a real possibility that he lost all instrumentation and means of communication. That's more dangerous than a blown out bulb. One single instrument like the airspeed indicator would be bad enough, but lose speed, altitude and attitude indications, and you need a lot of luck to rely on...
@@mirador698 that's the footage from "previous", because the camera ran out of power. They discussed it at 7:20, on the ground, and took off afterwards.
@@mirador698 Yes, they flew back. listen at 7:52
@@christianwendt7852 there was no risk he calculated the state of charge left in the battery and system demand giving him half an hour to return and he was only 5 minutes away. no risk taken.
One of the stories my dad used to tell (he's passed), but anyway. He was flying back to a grass strip near where we lived. Unmanned site, so you were pretty much on your own. Flying in in his Cessna (don't ask me what kind), in a snowstorm in Montanna. Anyway, so the weather is crap, but he's lined up on the runway lights, everything is kosher, and then the airport loses power.
Now this was in the 70's, and it was a small grass field. No battery backup, no diesel backup. No power = no lights. Well, my old man was low on gas, and he knew how high he was, and he knew he was lined up. So he just went for the landing relying on the in plane altimeter. Problem was, the storm was a low pressure zone, so he thought he was a few feet higher than he was.
He swore that i thought the landing gear was going to go through the floorboards. He bounced a few times, and was able to brake to a stop. Just around then, the lights came back on. He taxied in, roped the airplane down, and drove home. Luckily, those old cessna's were tough old birds, didn't suffer any damage.
For reference, back then he was flying people into Canada, bush style, landing on lakes for rich hunters and fishermen. So being sans any kind of assistance from the ground was normal for him. He was also stranded at a hunting camp on a lake once, because without the right wind, he could not take off from the lake! And it was calm, no wind. So he got to hang out with his customers for a few days hunting and fishing. Lucky bastard! ^-^
Just a tip, one thing you *would* have seen but I'm not sure you mentioned checking for specifically is if your drain/charge rates happen to change when you increase power don't fly the plane, that's what a short looks like. Power should have a stable drain rate from battery independent of throttle if you're not generating power or else don't fly. I'm sure you know that already but never hurts to remind people that if *you're* not getting that electricity it very much could be going somewhere else.
Thanks for letting us fly along with you Scott, good info.
In Australia we practice flying extensively with no instrumentation (with an instructor). On my CPL flight test the examiner "failed" everything and we did Circuits, normal and non normal. Its surprising to see how well one can fly without instruments at all and some people even fly better when just looking outside and listening to their engine rather than obsessing over the instruments. Power plus attitude equals performance, your aircraft would be a breeze in a total electrical failure because of the manual flaps, slow approach speed and low stall speed.
Anyway, trust your training and maybe a backup such as a Garmin G5 would be worth the investment since it is independent and has built in standby power.
For real. I'm only a student and yet my instructors were very quick to put me through tough situations. It's like some of these folk are too dependent on technology instead of raw stick and rudder skills.
I am very pleased to hear that Australia still has the toughest pilot's training in the world and what you described brings back memories of tough tests I went through at Moorabbin back '81-'82 to earn my license.
Back then you needed 33 hours for Restricted PPL...
then you had to do an additional 21 hours of Cross Country navigation training
(15 dual and 6 solo) for your UnRestricted PPL
....which would let you fly solo anywhere in the world.
On top of that you then need five x-county flts that were 5 hours long to qualify to sit the CPL flight test. But his was 43 years ago.
Sadly as I just read on the CASA website, the PPL has now been watered down to just 5 hours X-country time and 1 solo x-country flight for the PPL license.
How things have changed over time.... sigh...
The way you speak and act with honesty is very satisfying
I like challenges that demands discipline from me... it's always going to be about making mistakes and learning from them
I learned (and this was back around 2010) on a PA28 where literally the only digital computer was the clock. The instructor didn't even give me a GPS to use. If I had lost the battery (and I actually had the alternator belt break in flight once, so I came close), I would have still had all of my primary instruments. It really bothers me that newer aircraft sometimes don't have any analog backups.
As long as you are familiar with it, you should be able to (and I'm sure you probably could) fly that aircraft in good weather by feel alone, with no instruments whatsoever if you had to.
That said, I would personally be hesitant to take off with that fault in my aircraft, given that I would literally have no displays if I ran out of battery. My instructor really instilled in me that part of flying is just accepting that I might get stuck somewhere I never intended to be for a few hours, or even days due to weather, technical faults, etc. Just food for thought.
yeah without backup analog instruments I feel like a backup battery/circuit to power instruments should be required. It surprises me that with the additional reliance on the primary electrical system in modern aircraft that they don't require redundancy there like they do with the magnetos/engine ignition system. An ipad/iphone does not strike me as sufficient backup instrumentation but if he'd lost power that's all he'd have had, that and the mk 1 eyeball...
Many instruments that are critical do have battery backup. In the plane I fly, when you shut down the plane, the gauges keep running with 45 minutes of battery left if you press the button.
There really should be an addition to part 23 to require analog standby instruments in the albeit very unlikely eventuality that you lose all the fancy glass
@@throwback19841in most aircraft operated under part 91, the battery is the backup
@@silaskuemmerle2505 or another electrical generator for all the glass. with analog, vacuum (i think) is the power source for your gauges, so it makes sense to use one other backup power supply.
Having watched a *ton* of GA crash and problem solving stuff I'll say this- you already seem to be suffering from 'get there-itis' in your initial reaction to the problem and that's somewhat concerning and maybe something to think about. You had an issue that you did not initially fully understand the cause of and your first reaction was "I want to fly the aircraft back to base" and not "we should stop and figure out the cause before we do anything else". Many many GA accidents seem to start with this exact type of minor but seemingly manageable issue that later quickly develops into a real emergency before spiralling out of control, and there is very frequently a point right at the beginning where the pilot could have made the decision not to go.
As a mentor pilot enjoyer, I concur.
I'm glad you said something. Taking off with an abnormal electrical issue just seemed like a bad idea, but I'm also not a pilot. I have a similar policy with firearms though. If the firearm just did something that feels abnormal, unusual, unexpected, or like it hasn't behaved properly... fun time at the range is *over* until you figure out exactly what happened, and take corrective action as necessary to fix it.
If that means you're done for the day, so be it. You're done for the day. You also have all your fingers, eyes, and your blood is still inside you.
No one cares about your 2A garbage @@Tomyironmane
@@Dan-yk6sy He doesn't like MentourPilot because he covers stuff that Scott "already knows". This is why I've been nervous about Scott's overconfidence, particularly in "book smarts". He isn't recognizing that he's in the part of his flying career where he needs to build experience as safely as possible
I don’t think was a smart idea. Even if your a mathematician loss of power or electricity is not good voltage regulator/battery/alternator would need a check in depth. You did say there was an GPS update.
I love to fly! Glad you are doing it too! Looks fun!! Flying by looking out the window. I do have a handheld Air Band radio I keep in my flight bag, just incase. Glad it wasn't a huge problem. Great that you looked at the wiring diagram!
Hey Scott, as a newly minted (as of last year) private pilot license holder, I think you got your order of operations mixed up here. At 7:30 you exhibit some getthereitis, then at 9:52 you say you began trying to figure out what went wrong when you returned to your base.
You were experiencing an electrical issue you didn't understand but your first instinct is to get it back to your home base. While I understand that base is very close, most aviation accidents are on landing and takeoff and within hundreds of feet of the runway on either end. Instead of trying to get back home and then diagnosing the issue, I think next time you can take the time to collect yourself, call your friends up and speak to them, diagnose the issue, THEN you can consider taking off.
I understand it wasn't a problem THIS time, and I have read your pinned explanation. However, please remember the swiss cheese theory of accidents. A plane on the ground, not moving, cannot crash, and thus when you landed and stopped at that first airport was when you were most safe. Just because we got lucky with the nature of the issue does not mean we should be happy with it. Still, it takes courage to put forth what happened, to expose yourself to that criticism, and to take your licks publicly. God knows I made some very, very stupid mistakes during my training, and will continue to do so. None of us are saints.
As always, fly safe.
outstanding tale, Scott. I never did get my license, but I did have the opportunity as a teen to get a few minutes of stick time in a Grumman Cheetah back in the early 90s.
Love the shout out to the air cadet program. My kid just joined air cadets.
great to see your journey in aviation, it seems you have a really good sense of making informed and safe decisions which is a great assett. Happy landings and fly safe.
Love the non electrical controls in this machine full marks to the designer!
But tell us again about those Four unmarked key positions and no Charge Lamp 😮
Who designed that, I’d have them removed from any company duties that was responsible for essential flight controls.
Put Ya Foot Down Manly.
‘Get-there-itis’… Kids get it too… Every time we go vacation in the car…
Glad you had fun! Thanks for sharing.
I don’t think that’s flying safe, Scott…
That’s why it’s always better to buy a NEW plane / Car.
@@bravo_01 just not true, old aircraft can be flown perfectly safely, lots of GA aircraft built in the 40s-70s are up and flying great. it just depends on your maintenance, and when you encounter an issue like in the video using the proper ADM to keep the flight safe.
I agree, better to be grounded at an airport you don't want to be at than to fly with the possibility of no panel. Even if its an easy plane to fly, the risk factors go up. Take care of the problem on the ground.
@@bravo_01it is not in fact always better to buy a new plane.
An old pilot once told me he always wants the most critical instruments as backup. So if for your plane speed is most critical, have a backup speed gage installed.
Hey Scott, fly safe indeed. Glad you got sorted and home safe.
Amazing how much of an upgrade to textures the Scott Manley DLC brings to the MSFS! Even the voice acting is on point! 😮
I'm really looking forward to the "Scott Manley at home building Lego model with some beer"-DLC
😄
I hope Scott isn’t to proud to accept he did something a little bit silly/dangerous. You didn’t need to fly back - it’s unnecessary risk.
When two of my paragliding buddies went halves on an LSA, I had to threaten them to get them to bring an airband-capable multiband handy-talkie with them on every flight.
As an engineer who has developed cockpit avionics, it is remarkable how "simple" electrical issues can cascade into total system failures. In paragliding, we normally flew with 2-meter radios, which not only provided great line-of-sight communications, but also let us use the local repeaters if we needed to make contact after landing in an area lacking cellular coverage. (Some of our repeaters also included a phone patch, so we could call folks who weren't listening on 2-meter radios.)
With an airband-capable handset, you can not only contact airport control when all else fails, but you can also listen to local beacons, allowing limited navigation if the GPS dies on a cloudy or foggy day. I won't recommend any specific radio brands or models, for that is certain to start a religious bikeshedding war. However, you can get a perfectly suitable radio for under $200. And, if you haven't already, be sure to get your ham license (so easy) and join your local ham club!
Some handheld radios include a barometric altimeter (useful if you have no steam gauges), but I find a mid-to-upper tier Garmin smartwatch does the same, as well and providing an independent backup GPS.
I'm worried your discernment meter is malfunctioning. Hope not. Fly SAFE!
I appreciate this video very much, regardless of what wasn’t done perfectly. Lessons were learned I’m sure and next time you’ll have more knowledge to tackle decisions like this. Glad you’re dipping your toes in airplane ownership!
This comment section is one of the reasons many of my flying videos as an instructor and professional pilot will never be shared with the TH-cam public. I just have no patience for being second guessed into infinity. Props to you for having that patience. 😂
Hello Scott. First of all, I love watching your videos! You made me a better KSP rocketbuilder 😉
However… after watching this video I’d like to respectfully ask you; Please don’t do that again…
I fly professionally for a long time and I give you this advice; Look in the mirror and ask yourself if you’re convinced you’d be flying safely if that electrical power would fail. You wouldn’t be distracted, stressed or got tunnelvision?
The technical part is fun and you got that figured out, but there’s also the Human Factor (and limitations) when things go sideways.
Enjoy flying! But maybe with a little more non technical ‘what if…’
👍🏼👍🏼
I concur on "there's [engine] power loss, and there's electrical power loss", and I wouldn't have taken off until the problem was sorted out. It turned out to be a "switchology" issue, but what if it had been a short waiting to happen in an oxygen-rich environment (hello, Apollo 1)? But what really puzzles me is why your CFI didn't take more action - from "do you really want to fly this?" to knowing enough about the a/c to suggest checking all of the switches, not just fondling the breakers.
It’s great getting to see you guys flying this everyday now!
Uh, Oh! Scott's going to have to start ending his videos with "Do as I say, not as I do!"
Neat little plane. Nice slip on final.
My only real in-flight emergency was an alternator failure a couple of years ago. Discharge on the ammeter, WTF?!, run the checklist, no joy, consider my options. Day VFR. Uncontrolled airspace. Home base was the nearest airport. So I turned off the master and flew along in silence until approach. Gave ATC a heads up (PAN PAN), the shop found a broken wire under the cowl, all was well.
It's kind of the (sometimes grim) medical explanation of "all bleeding stops eventually." Factually true... but...
You should learn to fly your plane without an airspeed indicator. That is, learn to fly by pitch attitude, power setting, and by the feel of the controls. And, of course, be able to recognize an approaching stall. Then when or if you do lose the ASI, it's not a panic situation that could develop into something more serious. Scott, do this! It's all part of flying safe. --Old pilot who's been there more than once.
Unfortunately, in this case he'd have lost the attitude indicator as well
@@christianwendt7852 in VFR the attitude indicator is out of the window. You have to think where is the nose of the aircraft in relation to the horizon? Look left and right think what are my wings doing relative to the horizon? It’s not hard
Congrats! The plane reminds me a bit of the Rotax-powered Diamond DA-20 I flew many years ago.
I was just watching our neighbor do touch and go and hover practices in his new R66. Our 4 year old grandson loved watching it as it's only about 150 meters away.
That's a nice thing about living on a private air park community.
Keep pushing and you'll get what you're asking for if you've got something wrong on your airplane fix it where it sits. You take off with that limited amount of time and you get to the other airport and they've had a crash there's an emergency or something and you may have enough fuel to hang around but you don't have enough battery. Electrical failures like this with a battery going low have all sorts of weird gremlin like characteristics and will result on you hitting the ground if you keep pushing your luck
Scott!! I live in Sweden and because of my stage 4 cancer I want to try and revisit my childhood neighborhood in the San Fernando Valley (Chatsworth) this June. Is there anyway that I can book and pay you for a flight around the San Francisco area? I would love to say that I got to fly with the world famous Scott Manley!! 👍 🤜🤛
Leaving a comment to hopefully increase this comments visibility... Here's hoping Scott sees yours. 🤞😞🤞
Sorry to hear that... god speed!
Yes thanks. My time is running out according to my urologist and oncologist and I’ve never taken all 3 of my daughters to visit California, even if they’re heard 1,000’s of stories! Basically the only reason I left this comment was because after doing countless numbers of searches to contact Scott I couldn’t find a single thing. We’re going in June so there’s still time to get this to happen. And may you be safe and healthy.
@@thomasfholland I tried messaging him in his pinned comment, but either... YT removed it due to it hating me these last 6mos (removing so many of my comments), or, he saw it and then removed it so that it didn't clutter his pinned comment.
Reaaaally hoping for the latter. 😞
Hey Scott. You were the one who taught me aerodynamic basics like CG vs CL and dihedral in the space plane hanger nearly a decade ago. Thinking about it for years I finally decided to start on my PPL journey, partly because of something you said in one of your videos ("well I'm not getting any younger.") That stuck with me and is true for all of us. Keen to see all of your aviation content.
Congratulations on buying your plane Scott, she’s a beauty. Fly safe😎
Watching this made me nostalgic. I lived in Novato for many years and used to take my lunches to the Gnoss parking lot to watch operations. Granted its not a busy airport but on a good day you'd catch warbirds intermixed with students both rotor and wing. Since I had a half hour to spare I hopped in MSFS and did a quick KDVO>O69>0Q9>KDVO flight with touch and goes and that only increased the feelings. I gotta make a trip north again soon.
Congratulations Scott! I can only imagine how exciting it must be to take off for the first time in your own aircraft
well.. atleast you didn't cratered.. Every landing you walk away from is a good one right?😆 Fly safe 🍀
I kinda like manual trim and flaps. I started out in a 1959 Cessna 172 straight-tail. Steam gangues and manual trim and flaps, but also always work! Especially liked the 40% full flaps.
Very glad you are ok!!!
I flew a 1946 non-electric Luscombe 8A for 22 years. It had 5 cockpit instruments: air speed, altitude, oil pressure, oil temp. and engine RPM. One afternoon I lost those that were driven by the outside venturi when the vacuum hose came loose. My instructor had grilled me sufficiently that using your eyes and ears was all you need when the instruments quit. I landed, found the disconnected vacuum hose and flew on. Here's a question: which of the five instruments is the only one that is critical? (from "Stick and Rudder" by Langewiesche).
I would say oil pressure, if that goes south, you're landing really quick. You can fly the plane by wind noise and feel.
@@bernieschiff5919 I dunno, oil pressure comes with a pretty quick acting audio visual alert system ;-)
Airspeed. Your landing maneuvers are directly dependent on airspeed. (PS: Non-pilot, just semi-educated guess.)
Best video ever,
I love flying on my computer but I love seeing how much we virtual pilots miss out on, This was a great eye opener for me, iv never thought how much a light aircraft would differ.
11:21 umm Scott the runways over there mate :) (points left)
I know good pilots know their aircraft but some stuff you gotta learn as well, good calm flying leads to safe flying.
More videos please!
Fly safe? Looks like you had a bad case of "Get there-itis". That often gets pilots killed. Fly safer. And NEVER fly unless you understand the problem. You should know better, Scott. And I say this as a pilot with my Commerical Cert.
Totally agree. (I'm a gyro pilot)
How could he know the “problem” if he had never experienced it? Are you saying he should have understood the wiring diagram before flying? Is that what commercial pilots do? Honest questions, no snark.
@@twm4259 He realized there was some kind of problem. That should be enough. If I was pilot in command, I would not have flown the plane without fully understanding the problem and solved it, or knew the potential risks of the flight. But this is really a common problem in aviation. Too many pilots have encountered similar issues that cost them their lives.
@@BradM73 The video was made after the fact and I guess I didn’t hear him say he knew that there was a problem before he experienced it in flight. I guess I will have to rewatch it.
I’m sure the display showed battery voltage around 12 volts, that’s what they were looking at on the ground. Charging batteries would indicate around 13.8 volts. They decided to fly home with the possibility of losing power to the 3 glass panels. The engine does not need the battery to run it has 2 independent ignition systems. If while flying back though and the engine stopped the restart might not be possible because the battery is too weak. If you’re thinking the propellor will just windmill, not a Rotax 912 engine and that tiny prop they just stop instantly.
Congrats Scott!! Great video
Congrats on the plane and the checkout! I just finished the insurance checkout in a new to me (although much older than the WT9) plane as well, with some parallels -- no toe brakes, manual flaps, and an electrical power loss issue. Mine was due to a worn out battery, waiting a long time to take off, and the plane having a generator rather than an alternator -- on those it's necessary to keep the RPM up in order to charge the battery. Anyway, the WT9 looks like a really clean ride. Enjoy!
I appreciate you not burning leaded fuel!
During my first solo NAV as a student I had an alternator failure about 5 minutes after take-off. I just made my turn to the correct heading after getting clear of airspace, and said goodbye on frequency, when suddenly the low voltage light came on.
I tried to do all the basic fixes such as full powering the engine, checking master / alt switches were on and that little light kept flickering. Decided to immediately turn around and come back for landing at the airfield.
Intstructors on radio asked why I was back so soon and if everything was alright. I got the simply say "Yeah, I'm all good, just the alternator failed". Landed safely and returned to apron where an instructor came in the aircraft turned the alt switch off and on again (I forgot about this check in the air and didn't want to accidentally turn off the master, when they described it on the radio). I was slightly vindicated that the alt didn't start working after that test.
Turns out someone had nosed dived the plane not too long ago (they gave me the plane as for the first 25 hours of a new engine you run it at higher power which is perfect for nav) and when the engine was replaced, the alternator wasn't. So they had to get a brand new one.
I was back up in the air on my way in a new plane in less than 15 min after landing.
That experience has made me a lot more comfortable with potential emergencies because as a student I dealt with it and I wasn't even stressed in the plane, since from the moment it happened, my first thought was. This is a 24V battery, giving me 30 minutes of flight time before I need to actually worry.
Try carrying a hand-held 2-way aviation "walkie-talkie" for emergency backup. Especially beneficial in a congested area like the San Francisco Bay Area..... (When you are in the air and trying to troubleshoot an electrical problem can be quite difficult, especially in congested airspace when your attention is divided among lots of different things..) (P.S. I have over 1,000 hours logged as PIC, mostly flying in the bay area.)
Great that you have your own share now. And what a great place to fly! I've done lots in Scotland and it's fantastic so perhaps you should plan a trip there!
Congratulations on the plane. I always wanted to fly. Back in the late 70s, I worked at Parks College. Oliver Parks built the P2 bi plane there a hundred years ago. They would fly one in for open house. Grate memory. Fly safe
Great channel. I expect you may get some pushback Scott on this. As you know, the airplane was completely safe to fly. No problem there! An important thing to remember though is that any time you don’t fully understand the cause of a problem, you don’t fully understand what you have. For example, is the problem you see a symptom of an underlying problem that is more serious but still hidden? The recent 737Max door plug is a good example. I understand that airplane had numerous write-ups of the cabin pressurization system, but the maintenance folks couldn’t duplicate the problem on the ground. The investigation is ongoing, but the cabin controller problem may have actually been caused by the door-plug shifting (the infamous absence of bolts) and causing an intermittent leak that the cabin controller was having trouble keeping up with. On the ground is the best place the take the time to fully understand a problem and make a fully informed risk-aware decision. Once you fully understand the problem/cause, you can make an informed choice about leaving the ground. This was a harmless anomaly, but a valuable process experience. Sometimes the hardest decision is the decision not to fly.
It was “safe” to fly. Except if he’d have lost power, other planes in the air would not been able to detect him without the transponder. He would be relying on everyone keeping a good look out for him.
@@Liofa73 Keeping a lookout is a 2 way street. If you rely solely on the transponder to broadcast your presence and can't keep a lookout on your own in clear VFR conditions then you shouldn't be flying in the first place. That kind of over reliance on technology can kill you as well.
That’s an LSA for ‘ya!
Happy Landings!
Check Yo Switching! :)
Man, I’m so jealous! I dream of becoming a pilot. It will be a long road, but I’ll get my license eventually. Always good to see aviation content from my long time enjoyed content creators.
Scott, we all love you dearly! Please be careful with this endeavor. You demonstrated inexperience, hubris and ignorance all in the same video. Good grief! I really don't want to see you ending up in some air disaster video.
8:36 - That's exactly why when my stepdad and I built a KR2, we went full redundancy. We had glass with redundant steam.
As Scott admits, he is "very" low time on this aircraft and low total flying experience as PIC (pilot in command).
But in my 43 years of flying in many countries around the world, you do not ferry the plane over to the instructor who will teach you to fly it.
... The instructor comes over to you .... and until he signs you off as competent to fly solo in a type under normal and unusual conditions and emergency conditions, that is the way it should be.
I do not know what is required in the USA, but who ever did the last 100 hourly maintenance inspection on your plane clearly did not spot this defect of an improperly labelled switch, namely the 4 position key switch.
Food for thought and respectfully submitted.
Fly safe = we don’t fly broken airplanes.
I think one of the difficulties in the the US at the moment is understanding and integrating these light sport Rotax aircraft into flight training and maintenance. To do it safely requires a good understanding of how the plane works, and it’s clear that many don’t fully understand it, and sometimes that’s for lack of documentation. You found out the reason after the flight home. But it’s better to find out before you leave the ground again.
i'm so proud of you scott. been following you since the early days of KSP and i am actually a flight instructor. it's great to see you up there brthr ; )
As I was headed home on Friday night, I saw a small plane taking off from the Buchanan Airfield and wondered if Scott would have another Deep Space Update for this week. Well, this was just as interesting since space exploration seems to have been on repeat lately. It's really fascinating and economical that this plane runs on the fuel for automobiles. I wonder if it could withstand a heavy, rainstorm with high winds. It would also be nice if they could come up with a design where the front propeller was positioned so that it wouldn't block the field of vision. Bravo to you for figuring out the root cause of the power issue! The skills you built in analyzing spacecraft failures really paid off well. One moral of the story is to take one's basic electrical circuit analysis course seriously. You never know when it will come in handy. Thank you for sharing your adventure, Scott!
Nice aircraft. Fly safe!
Im glad everyone is calling Scott out for being unsafe.
Me too! No way in the world would I ever fly with him!
Your best video yet! Excellent content, you bought an great little plane, you handled everything correctly and professionally 👍👍🍻🇨🇦
I heard you mention texting group hey broke your plane was this a group buy in ,good to see your calm in a jam ,most people lose their cool and voices are raised❤ respect
That kast line cracked me up. Fly safe Scott.
Uh oh. This isn’t flying safe.
Did I hear: We are losing power. Things aren't going correctly? Let's fly?!??
@@jamescollier3 *Electrical* power to the avionics. Not the power that keeps the plane in the air.
It's not a Boeing plane, so it is safer than others.
@@moi01887 the avionics are important. No speed, no altitude, no attitude without them.
@@Marinealver dang. That made me chuckle.
Congratulations! Please also look into AQP, which teaches you procedures for problems that you may encounter in flight which flight schools typically do not teach. For example, avoid the “impossible turn” when there is an engine failure shortly after takeoff. We want to see many more videos from you! Fly safe!
I haven't flown in over 20 years. The planes I did fly back then were low tech. All steam 6 pack gauges, etc. The highest tech I ever flew with was a hand-held Lowrance GPS unit. That said, as you've just discovered, there are advantages to low tech. No worries about a bad battery knocking out all your instruments. With that in mind, and with your mention of concern about airspeed for lowering flaps, it might be good to install a backup, non-electric, airspeed indicator of some sort.
If you don't have a permanent record of the first time you say that as a mentor pilot you're doing it wrong Scott! :) That would be so epic! Cool plane too!
As an owner or partial owner it's a useful exercise to go through your checklists periodically to tailor them for yourself and your aircraft. Figure out what's extraneous and what's missing, in your own experience. Every aircraft I've flown has its own provided checklists, and they're often different even within the same model. Extraneous is difficult to determine without experience, but in my case the checklists specified vacuum gauges and HSI spin-up even though the aircraft had been installed with a pair of G5 instruments and the vacuum pump removed. The missing checklist items are more difficult to assess, because they requires experience. I've had several in-flight failures over the course of my flight experience. As a result I added a push-to-check gear indicator lamp check, a pair of independent radio checks for both COM1 and COM2, and a fuel tank switch timer reset. My checklists also now include reference manifold pressures for approach, as well as reminders to assess specific gauges during runup I want to pay more attention to.
I recommend reviewing the checklist with a CFI or two, ensuring that you fully understand the failure mode each check item is intended to prevent. This helps you build a flow that is easy to follow from your typical airfield (do you typically do runup first, or call clearance delivery/ground?), and most importantly follow the checklist thoughtfully without just going through the motions. A checklist doesn't have to be a static thing. You are allowed to remove or combine lines that are less relevant, and you should also add items that you personally tend to forget.
I think where your CFI was going: if you did lose your airspeed indicator and you had to drop the flaps safely, could you do it? One of my 141 checkride pilots blocked off my 3 pitot static gauges in my training, pulled throttle, and asked me to perform an emergency landing. How do you determine best glide without an airspeed indicator? It made me rethink my dependency on instruments in VMC. I'd been constantly looking at my airspeed gauge for safety. Airspeed is critical, of course, but the gauge isn't your only resource. I had to feel it.
You can hear a rough estimate of airspeed from the wind outside. You can *feel* your airspeed as a degree of stiffness on the controls. If you absolutely need to avoid overspeeding the flaps or gear, under zero thrust you can ease back on the elevator until the buffet, and you know quite precisely how fast you're not going-- at that point definitely safe enough to deploy flaps, right? Then release backpressure until the controls firm up, trim it out and see how fast you're going. Get a feel for that.