Dragons: A History - Ronald Hutton
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มี.ค. 2024
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Why have people believed in dragons, and what were they actually? Is there a difference between Western and Eastern dragons, in a global perspective, and if so, why?
Has the Western attitude to dragons changed in the modern era? Did Christianity give rise to a different idea of what a dragon should be? These are the questions that this lecture sets out to answer.
This lecture was recorded by Ronald Hutton on 14th February 2024 at Barnard's Inn Hall, London
Ronald is Gresham Professor of Divinity.
He is also Professor of History at the University of Bristol.
The transcript and downloadable versions of the lecture are available from the Gresham College website:
www.gresham.ac.uk/watch-now/d...
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Professor Hutton is unable to give an unengaging lecture. What a treat that these lectures are free to watch!
I understand you are an english learner, but please avoid double negatives in the future, thanks!
@@BlastinRopePrickish reply
@@BlastinRope Boooo. Hisss
Watching paint dry …
@@BlastinRope luckily I'm fluent in mongo, so I could read your comment perfectly 🎉
"Noble dragons don't have friends. The nearest they can get to the idea is an enemy who is still alive." - Terry Pratchett, "Guards, Guards"
May the gods keep him. 🙏
GNU STP
_"Fairy tales are more than true: not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten."_ -- Neil Gaiman
Incorrect.
@@Maxtyur_"People who deny the existence of dragons are often eaten by dragons."_ -- Ursula K. Le Guin
@@transvestosaurus878 ok thanks I'm going to stay home .....FOREVER. 🏡
@@Maxtyur😂. I think you'll be ok.
@@transvestosaurus878 lol (buuuurp)
This guy is a treasure. Thanks for this terrific presentation.
I wish I could have had this gentleman as a college prof. I could listen to him all day!
To be fair, Pernese dragons are specifically NOT Earth dragons. To give Ms. McCaffery proper credit....
And bio-engineered to be helpful.
Also he swapped her info on accident, She was an American author who moved to Ireland not the other way round. Lol
I would love an entire lecture series on dragons and dragon myths. Just a comprehensive dive into this stuff. I want to know absolutely everything he knows. It's so hard to find that information.
Roger Spurr👌
I saw a video of a big alligator climbing a perimeter fence at least 8 feet high at the Naval Air Station in Jacksonville Florida. Clearly a flying dragon.
Alligators and crocodiles are two different species. They are only found in a section of the US and in China…and in fresh water not salt.
Crocs however are found in far more wider areas of the world which might add weight to the theory.
The “true crocodiles” (family Crocodylidae) occur in most of Africa south of the Sahara, Madagascar, India, Sri Lanka, Southeast Asia, the East Indies, northern Australia, Mexico and Central America, the West Indies, and northern South America.
@@PetroicaRodinogaster264 Aren't there salt-water crocodiles in northern Australia?
Or....more a ...
" CLIMBING" dragon.
@@user-em4kb3gm8gAs an Australian we certainly do have salt water crocodiles. Probably the largest, 30 feet long is not unknown. We also have fresh water crocodiles ( not alligators, but crocodiles) but they are smaller. We also have land dwelling monitor lizards. I have seen them up to 8 foot, with jaws like a large dog.
I have read about a very interesting theory about mediaeval dragons, put forward in about 1911. That is that they were rogue wild boars, in my country they are called Razorbacks. In cold weather their breath is a cloud of steam as if they breathed fire. And they are huge, sometimes almost as large as a cow.
Quite capable of killing peasants. So we have genuine damsels in distress. Groups of boys, (13-15) would bravely set off to slay the dragon, and rescue the village. In doing so, if they succeeded, they would have proven their bravery, and earnt their knighthood.
The theory is that everyone knew what these creatures were, but they were genuinely fearsome and dangerous, and were referred to as dragons. By using the term dragon and Dragonslayer, they were also showing honour to the boys genuine bravery.
Not so much as reverence but cautious respect for Coyote the trickster. Apache here and taught by my Grandfather. Ya'ta'hay!
13 in the Medicine cards ❤
Dragons are real.
The petrified bodies are visible on Google earth.
There are many of them worldwide.
They are very easy to identify, thanks to the scaley dragon throat of Typhon and the glorious feathers of Quetzalcoatl the feathered Serpent Dragon.
I have cautious respect for William KnifeMan.
I was surprised you didn't mention Tiamat when talking about Leviathan
Wow! I am from Mid Wales and I remember being told the story about the Gwiber growing up. I was looking into it just the other day. The mountain was Moel Bentyrch
You missed the Welsh dragons. Which is one of the few Western dragons that fulfills a protective role.
Lovely represents the Celts. And white dragon the Saxons.
More of a complex one. The entire reason the red and white dragons were sealed away in the first place is the mass damage they were inflicting on the local environment.
This was tremendous fun! I think the cryptozoologist's theory about dragons with hydrochloric acid in their stomachs, therefore being prone to exploding, may have been borrowed by Terry Pratchett for his Discworld dragons.
Ivor the Engine's dragon was very nice and friendly! He was Welsh.
There's lovely 🐲
Such an interesting talk by Professor Hutton. I shall be listening to more.
Has everyone seen, "Dragonslayer" from 1981? In my top 20 All-time films.
Great movie
Great movie but I really like "Reign of Fire" granted they are wyvern but still dragon imhp
I thoroughly enjoy Prof. Hutton's lectures, interviews, cozy chats, whatever.
Thank you so much Professor Hutton. Your knowledge is wide and deep…like the habitation of some dragons. The presentation is amusing and riveting.
There’s a number of ‘worms’ in Scotland, I live near a place called Wormit, across the Tay in Dundee there was another one with a n area named after the battle, Strathmartin, meaning ‘strike Martin’.
Thank you very much! Always enjoy Professor Hutton’s lectures
I will listen to Ronald Hutton speak about anything.
Agreed. Absolutely captivating
On a hike with our little daughter of 3or4, we crossed paths with a little snake spitting his tongue - our little daughter said he spit fire. Odd coincidence.
Whoop Whoop ❤ very happy that the algorithm recommended this channel.
I always loved Hutton’s contributions to documentaries I’ve watched.
He has a wonderfully soft but engaging manner. Full of humanity and humor.
Instant subscription ❤
I’ll be watching the entire series … just for starters 😁
Another wonderful talk from Professor Hutton, thank you. i love his delivery and the topics he presents to hopefully a wide audience. Along with all the possible cultural connections he puts forth around Dragon-Lore, i also think that the amygdala or R-Complex within most sophisticated animals, including us- humans, is the core element that then generates all the behavioral characteristics we recognize as 'reptilian'., for example; Alligators, as far as reptiles go, are excellent mothers to their own offspring yet nightmares to everybody else's.....sound familiar anyone?
Thank you so much! I always enjoy Professor Hutton's lectures.
He's so great. I remember when he was on Tudor Monastery Farm etc.
THAT'S why he's familiar!! I was wondering where I knew him from.
Thank you, I am in Iowa USA, saw something that looked like a dragon out my car window one afternoon. Known several people who saw something simply including some legends in our part of the world. Always wondered if it was something mental or what it was.
This was fantastic. Best hour I've spent on youtube in a number of years. Thank you Gresham College and the incredible Professor Hutton.
Professor Hutton is a legend. Cheers from Norway
He is so wonderfully lyrical.
How old or young is this video?
As always, a pleasure to listen to Dr. Hutton! ❤ This is a fascinating subject.
That’s a bit loosely stated to suggest that Christians up to the 19th century read the scriptures in a literalistic way. St. Augustine comes to mind as well as Origen, Jerome, and Aquinas. They viewed the scriptures as literally true, but not as literalists but as transcended truths of man’s relationship with the divine.
Thank you very much! Just a comment on 52:34: in Hungary, we actually have a creature in folk tales, called "sárkány", which is also the word used for the "common" European dragon, but it's nothing like that. This type of sárkány is basically a big, multi-headed, evil dude, who usually kidnaps a woman, preferably a princess, and lives in a magical castle. The functional role is quite similar though, they just get killed by the hero. I guess it's really an entirely different thing that has the same name, for some reason. Probably it's an earlier mythological monster type, and when Hungarians were introduced to European dragons, they just applied the same word to it, as it was also a big monster to be slain.
Hutton treats these legends as mere stories out of imaginations. He doesn’t consider even one time the possibility that these legends could be memories of real events.
Exactly. But then this comes from the school of thought that says "don't be silly, we KNOW dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago, so it must all just be allegory and active imaginations..." Pfff.
Yes...he acts like an authority over dowsers who work with the earth energy /serpent lines as John Michell was writing..
@@fnps1663What school of thought is it that limits one to ask questions?
Perhaps school of thought isn't the right term. More a world view? The type that says that man and dinosaur could never have crossed paths, and that won't even consider the possibility because it would challenge too much, and require a rethink of so many other things.@@alfreddaniels3817
Perhaps school of thought is the wrong term. Maybe world view is a better one? The kind that says there is no way that man and dinosaur could ever have crossed paths, and that won't even consider the possibility because it would require too much of a rethink in other areas.@@alfreddaniels3817
Very interesting lecture!
In the category of lake monsters I'd like to add that especially in Central and Eastern Europe there are stories about giant catfish (3-4 meters long) eating people and cattle. The story is that they grab you when you come close to the water and then drag you down, they will hide the body in some underwater pit and feed on you. In my experience, these stories are much less known in Western Europe. From what I've understood, there are some credible historical anecdotes about catfish eating human children, but the stories may be very exaggerated. Either way giant catfish might be the source for some lake monster stories. :)
Honestly ever since I first learned about giant catfish I've found the idea of them much more disconcerting than the idea of a single solitary Lake Monster™ 😅
Giant pike,wels catfish, sturgeon for example are very big
Sounds a bit like the Cat Mnster - catfish face and whiskers - panther body. That's a native monster in the US. It lives in the MIssissipii and Missouri rivers, and in Lake Superior. You can Google Mississippian pottery Cat Monster and see what it looks like. You go near the water - maybe in the little willows - and suddenly there is an enormous catfish in your face. It happens much faster than "suddenly".
I do believe that many legends are based on real creatures. The indigenous people of my country have a mythical monster called a Bunyip that takes girls who go near water at dusk. But the legend is not a legend in the regions where salt water crocodiles exist.
A problem with his general thesis is that wolves surely ‘do’ play a monstrous role in European folklore (contra Hutton’s admittedly correct observation that wolves aren’t that dangerous). I don’t really see why they needed dragons as well.
I do wonder, however, if England in particular may have an unusually large amount of dragon legends because it lost it’s wolves earlier than any other European nation.
Wolves were not wiped out in the UK until the 17th or 18th century; most of these dragon stories are far older. And to the contrary, wolves are plenty dangerous; where retaliatory killings are not standard practice and wolves and humans have frequent contact (eg India), wolf predation on humans (mostly children and some elderly) are relatively common.
@@nevisysbryd7450 in England they were wiped out earlier, in the Middle Ages
@@reginaldodonoghue9253 The very end of the 15th or early 16th century for England, specifically, which is the very end of the Middle Ages. Most of these dragon stories predate that by _at least_ a century and many by several, assuming they are not morphs of earlier local stories going back into the Early Middle Ages or earlier.
@@nevisysbryd7450 even so, the number of wolves must have been much lower than elsewhere in Europe
There was a pack of wolves in France during the 100 year war which became fond of human flesh and actively sought out peasants for food. The pack leader, I forget his name, was famously tried as a werewolf and executed.
As for early mediaeval dragons in England, there was an interesting theory put forward in I think 1911. That is that they were rogue wild boars. These creatures occasionally become very large and dangerous. In cold weather their breath is a cloud of steam as if they breathed fire. These too would terrorise peasants and put damsels in distress.
Groups of boys (13-15) would go off to slay the dragon. In doing so they could prove their bravery and earn a knight hood. The theory goes that people knew what the creatures were, but they were referred to as dragons, a) because they were truly fearsome and b) to honour the great bravery the boys had shown.
I'm loving these lectures. I'm also enamoured by Somerset, landscape, it's past and present wildlife and folklore.
I was hoping he'd touch on the first nation US legend of the Thunderbird and giant flying fossil remains.
I just discovered Ronald Hutton the other day and boy, am I glad to have done so. He's a treasure--a storehouse of wonderful information and a terrific presenter, too. I love him.
Here in Australia the great "rainbow" or "green" serpent (the waugal) is regarded with trepidation.
We still have salt water Crocs, Sharks, and theee of the five most venomous snakes in the world.
This would contest the idea that the dragon persists as a remnant of a need for deference to an apex predator.
It's peculiar that a snake, and particularly a water snake should exist when the water contains the most threatening predators but few if any snakes.
Huttons remark about his favorite dragon reminded me of an early-modern, low-german legend (from the collection of Richard Wossidlo) about the last dragon in Mecklenburg - he also was sat upon for quite a while and was convinced to disappear (he withered into nothing, if I remember correctly).
Wait till people find out there's a gaurdian dragon watching over the earth.. she's peaceful if you leave her alone. Not greedy. Likes to help people and has had food and resources brought to people in need. Got some water flowing and green growing in the deserts. They're not all bad.
Interesting to see that there's others who think that the idea of dragons originates from dinosaur bones. I remember, as a child, thinking that was a possibility why dragon myths existed. I was a huge dinosaur-loving kid (thanks to Jurassic Park) and I still love learning about dinosaurs. I always imagined there could be a connection between dinosaur bones and dragons being the product of the imagination of ancient peoples. It's nice to know that I'm not the only person who thinks that.
would it surprise you to know both existed, one of them is laying fossilised on the ocean floor just below hawaii. He is nearly 15000 kilometers long with a head that in its fossilised state is over 1000 kilometers high from chin to the top of his head. His body can be examined up close using google earth and his skeletal remains become more distinctive as you look closer especially its spinal vertebrae near his tail which is preserved in perfect detail, so it is not pareidolia if it becomes more obvious the closer you get. The bible says there were giants on the earth in those days and after that. Ancient texts all speak of collossal creatures that were considered gods in many cultures. Even in Apollo Dorus there is clear detail speaking of the creation of these giant animals. Its quite fascinating. Stone henge has human body parts just laying in the open and no one has even noticed. Uther pendragon helped Merlin build the Henge and he requested to be buried at the henge when he died. The Heel Stone is permineralised stone now. but close examination show clear biological anatomical details such as bones inside the foot. It belonged to a human being approximately 40 feet tall and fits as is described in The Brut. Dragons ARE real and were not dinosaurs. Crazy right? :)
A new video with Ronald Hutton is always well appreciated 🧡🧡🧡
I really enjoy this Professor and enjoyed him in the tv shows. I am American and wish I could listen to him in person.
What joy. Just when I was at a loose end. Only the ironing beckoning.
You could join in by making a dragon noise with the steam booster button.
What a coincidence, I listened while doing the ironing as well. Smoke breathing monster with a long tail.....
There is a red dragon and a white dragon in the Mabinogi Welsh/British myth, that fight to the death; perhaps the source for Tolkien's battle of Fire and Ice when Gandalf fights the Balrog.
Crests of 2 opposing clans?
@@sonnylambert4893 Maybe a latter day interpretation, but go back to the ancient world: this was a struggle between the people that adopted the sun as their main time-piece and those that adopted the moon in the same role. Lloegr, England, was the Land of the Moon (in Welsh).
Ms. Anne McCaffrey was an American, aka U.S. citizen, of Irish extraction who moved to Ireland after she became successful. Incidentally she was the first woman to win both the Hugo and Nebula awards. So am I being pedantic, yeah, but... Netflix we need a Dragonriders of Pern series!
I agree! I love the dragons of Pern books and wish someone with the means to do so, would make a true-to-book series.
This would make Netflix worth watching for a while at least.
I really appeciate I can watch your lectures. And it was great to hear Prof. Hutton again.
Saw him first doing Cunk on Britain. He is engaging. Thanks, rob
Krokodilopardalis Crocodile-Leopard is what the Greeks or Latins called it. Its from an ancient fresco from Italy depicting the Nile valley showing Nubians fightings a velociraptor looking creature from around 200 BC
Finland doesnt have an enormous seacoast, they have a little bit of ocean that comes from the tiny gap between Denmark and Sweden. lack of this, and that the finnish arent really seafarers will naturally cause a lack of this kind of creatures. Also theres other dragons in scandinavian culture, like fafner
What an enjoyable lecture for a morning listen. Thank you!
Great presentation cheers. I've enjoyed some of his talks on DruidCast (the OBOD podcast), too.
I love the friendly dragon stories. Who wouldn’t want to befriend something so graceful and powerful?
I have read all of the Dragon riders of Pern books over the years, very well written stories.
Fantastic lecture, thank you.
Thank you. Watching from Alaska.
Excellent lecture!
One note about basilisks and cockatrice is that they usually ate the creatures they turned into stone according to the myths I have read on them.
Regarding the primary topic of dragons, I personally believe that the oriental dragons were seen as the natural forces while the European dragons were more of a metaphor for a major challenge or undertaking. This would explain why it was mostly knights and craftsmen that defeated the European dragons and the Chinese essentially learned to live with them. With the stories and legends passed down through the generations, and a vast majority of people in the Dark and Middle Ages having very minor education, the dragons that were fought in legend were equated to the biblical dragons instead of the challenges that were overcome.
Uwielbiam wykłady Profesora Huttona 🌹🌹🌹
Your narration was so enjoyed,more because of your perfect enunciation. Lovely speaking voice.
Thank you for another entertaining and enlightening lecture! It was especially fascinating to learn where the Welsh dragon came from, as that was completely new to me.
Not interested in dragons, paganism or religion at all, but this chap is a pleasure to listen to.
This is truly a delight to hear. Much appreciated.
Wonderful Lecture! I was captivated the entire time.
I love all of Ronald Huttons lectures.
Another entertaining, informative and enjoyable talk: thank you! Great to see Richard Smith at the end of this video. I realise that he's not one of the Gresham professors but it would excellent to see some lectures by him. "Hobart's Pike" and his other talks, are some of my favourites from the Tank Museum's channel.
Hutton and Dragons! You beauty!
Always a delight ❤️
Professor Hutton is a joy to listen to. I always make a beeline for his lectures and share them copiously . Thank you Gresham College!
i wish one day i can attend one of his classes and meet prof hutton in person
A subject close to my heart
at 11:33 is pictured the lindworm, which at first glance looks rather ferocious, till you take in its adorable little arms and legs
Thank you for yet another great and interesting lecture! I always enjoy these immensely!
BUT I do have a question, even if I am pretty sure this will be buried in the TH-cam comments section without anyone ever seeing it… You see I am myself a Finn, and the part about Finnish dragons intrigued me, as I have never heard this tale myself! I would love to know the source for this story, so I could find out more about it!
not lost, not buried!
Such a blessed and beautiful soul.
Great lecture, thanks
If you really look into the history of dragons, the word just means any large reptile. It’s entirely possible that early humans had contact with sufficiently large reptile to come up with the legends.
Incredibly interesting! I would love to hear Hutton speak more on the Chinese dragon. He left out some of its crucial symbolic power - that of the storm that arises when great changes come upon the land. Timothy Brook's The Troubled Empire opens with accounts of such dragon sightings.
The oldest legends of dragons have them as water dragons which brought the major rains and storms. Just watch a thunderstorm for the roots of dragons vs gods myths.
Loved it
Great Lecture Ronald. Met you a few times at conventions 👍
What a fantastic lecture
Great lecture 👍
This is true: a large winged dragon-like serpent was seen in the US (Ohio or Iowa or around there) around the late 1950s (i think). i read this is an article in the Kansas City Star newspaper. i was looking through back issues of Midwest US newspapers on an entirely different topic. So, i didn't take written notes, but such an account is difficult to entirely forget. According the article, the witnesses saw the dragon land and open its mouth and numerous small, presumably infant, dragons jumped out of its mouth of the dragon. Then, after a bit time, the serpent scooped up the smaller ones and flew off. The writer the article seemed want to explain the witnesses account as result of the extreme anxiety of the Red Scare or Communist threat at the time in the US.
I love this man
Love this historian! New Zealand has no snakes.
I used to think that dragons were created to explain meteoroids, meteorites, fireballs, asteroids & comets. Now I'm wondering if some sort of unconscious instinctive perception of static electricity from fault lines might hold a clue.
There's the possibility of an unknown species of giant/colossus squid estimated to be up to 165ft long, based on suction hooks found in the hull of the U.S.S. Stein, which were five times larger than any known. However it may be a question of bulk rather than length. The female colossus squid for example is apparently five times bigger than her male equivalent.
To the point the one questioner was saying about dragons as representatives of natural forces, I think there is something to the idea insofar as it relates to the role of rivers in early Chinese history. China is one of the classic "hydraulic empires" where the need to control flooding and provide irrigation was an essential part of social formation. This was doubly so along the erratic Yellow River, to the point that a lot of the mythical kings spent a large chunk of their time as civil engineers. So it kind of makes sense that the Chinese concept of dragons would have originated as representatives of rivers, which were life giving if mercurial things. Especially when you consider the symbolic connection to power and authority, i.e. he who mediates the relationship with the river/dragon properly has the right to claim authority.
Professor Ron Hutton Belongs in Westminster Abbey He is the Greatest and I love listening to him no matter what he talks About he could read the phone book and I would be captivated
The spiked armour thing reminds me of the apocryphal section associated with the book of Daniel: of Bel and the dragon.
There is also the theory of Leviathan being what we call the Plesiosaur, and the Behemoth what we call the family Brachiosaurus belonged to.
It's likely Gryphons were what we call Triceratops. Gargoyles seem to have been Crocodiles.
P.S. These Sarmatian and Avar cavalry employed "scale" armor, on themselves as well as on their horses which may have contributed to their "serpentine"ness/visual impact on the local pedestrian natives whom they raided for cattle/livestock and women. This likely connection between "Giant scale-clad monsters (horse and rider) who steal women and livestock, then retreat to some strategic lair/armed encampment" no doubt became morphed into dramatic legends to the generations who grew up after the times of such raids. It obviously would have left a big impression, probably being the biggest event in any villages history. So, there's that, too.
I was in Thailand at a little local museum and there was a photograph of men holding what looked just like a Chinese dragon. It was an old photo and definitely real. It was about 12 feet long and they were standing in water holding it.
I believe it. Check look up pictures of oarfish if you've never seen one
what an interesting & charming fellow . you sense it’s someone with whom it would be just splendid to share a cup of tea
top talk
I love his eccentric style.
I always loved the dragon that kept the castle warm in the coldest part of the year with his fire breathing ability!
Your vest is impressive ❤
thank you 😸♥️ this is the only type of content i come to youtube for ✨
also my favorite dragon is ivan 🐉💚
Had other plans, but the thumbnail convinced me.
The most obvious dragon-like fossil-find is not mentioned: Pterodactyls! Reptiles with Bat-like wings, dragon heads, clawed feet, etc.
A sturgeon can look like a serpent in the water. And it can be in really cold water so that could explain what people are seeing now.. like they one video of the ice moving and it looks serpentine. Giant scales on the body that's like armor. I can see it. Alligators and crocodiles have skin so tough, there's only one place it can be pierced which is the third eye area on the top of the head. Komodo dragons have bacteria in their mouths that's almost like venom and the way it acts on the body of its food. Then you got the little flying dracos.. they're cute bc they're small. There's a bird that mimics the dragon. And i think dinosaurs are really dragons but called dinosaurs bc they didn't want it to be known.. there be dragons. Some indigenous say they use to work with the dragons in harmony. And there's a temple that was built long after the "dinosaurs" were gone that has the picture of one on it. I mean way after they were gone. It's less than 12,000 years old. Thanks for the great video😊
Anne McCaffrey was an American and moved to Ireland. I visited her at her house just outside Dublin back in 1997.