Double Talk - Bat-May
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
- "Double Talk" marks the final full DCAU appearance of Arnold Wesker, aka The Ventriloquist, and his dummy Scarface. Is this a worthy final send-off? Find out now as Walter continues his deep dive into The New Batman Adventures.
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Double Talk is an episode of The New Batman Adventures. It is notable for introducing the characters of The Ventriloquist and Scarface to the new series, although it provides as a definitive end for the criminal mastermind and therefore, he doesn't make another official appearance in the series.
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What did you think of Double Talk?
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A pretty reletable episode that i can turn to when things get dark
I like it and at least Arnold gets the happy ending he so rightfully deserves
0:33 Robert Crichton is the Warden of Gotham Prison. He was never seen in this show, but it looks like they misspelled his name here. "Chrichtion" 🤔
Will you do Batman beyond after TNBA
I’d love to see the Bat May formula applied to Superman, including the crossover episodes.
"When the muscle starts thinking it's the brains, then it's time to amputate." God, I love that line.
Keeping in mind that Scarface is a part of Wesker's own mind, I think Scarface's real motivation was expressing Wesker's anger at what those thugs did to him.
There's a real good number of lines in this ep.
Wesker: "But you're gone! I'm cured!"
Scarface: "Cured? I ain't a case of the sniffles, Dummy!" And I don't roll over just cuz some quack waves a $2 watch at me!"
I found the New Batman Adventures to be less than the original BTAS, but they did show occasional glimmers of their former brilliance. And that line was one of them.
Absolutely a prime explain of excellent writing and good voice acting all in one line. Love every second of it!
Almost foreshadowing Wesker finally doing away with Scarface!
It was SO satifying to see Arnold shoot the dummy, at long last freeing himself. He deserves it.
It's a little funny to think that he's shooting the dummy while also throwing his voice and voicing Scarface reacting to getting shot, though.
This episode was such a refreshing change of pace. For once, a Batman villain goes through a redemption arc - and actually sticks with it! No last-minute reversal, no bullshit that puts Wesker right back in Arkham, no red herring ending that'll later be retconned, an actual change in the status quo. We never see Scarface again, barring a cameo in Justice League's "A Better World" (which is set in a parallel universe, so take that as you will) and Batman Beyond (on a display case in the Batcave). And the best part is, the Caped Crusader never acts like a distrustful prick. He fully supports Wesker's new lease on life at every step in the way. It makes sense since he's one of the most sympathetic rogues in Gotham, if not all of DC. Every crime Wesker commits is as a dependent puppet (pun totally intended) to his own alter ego, and he always feels bad about it.
It's interesting how they definitively had an end for a BTAS villain. It was rare for them to do that unless they were a once off
I respect the DCEU in general for having better senses of closure than the comics, as they are not as much a slave to the status quo in the same way, so it's nice to see Wesker beat his demons or Joker eventually dying from his own plan and Harley eventually making a new life for herself, even ashamed of her grandkids in crime.
The show writers said one of the things the loved about Scarface episodes is that, since Scarface IS a dummy and not alive, the censors would let them get away with subjecting him to MUCH more gruesome "deaths".
The Ventriloquist and Scarface later appeared in the "Over the Edge" episode, quietly un-doing Wesker's reformation. But admittedly, that could be written off as part of the Scarecrow-induced dream. I guess that could have been a hidden clue that it wasn't 'real'....
I'd argue that Mr. Freeze had definitive end. While its certainly not a happy one like Arnold, it was better choice ending with him being with his wife Nora. Then they brought him back once more kind of killing off his definitive end, but he had one least for a good while.
Though now that I think about it, this doesn't explain how Batman ends up with Scarface later in his bat cave. Since both puppets are "dead", how in the hell did he end up with this version of Scarface in the bat cave?
@@UrSammich made one just for the bat cave?
Of all the villain redemption episodes, Wesker was the only one who got a happy ending. Good for him.
I love Lois and Clark's appearance in the park scene,also the Scarface double is voiced by a real life dwarf
So was Wesker's landlady. She was voiced by Patty Maloney.
Its nice that the Ventriloquist got a real ending, and Batman showed so much compassion for him. Especially seeing how this was after ge became colder and harder
We all love Batman for being an uber-prepared badass, but just like Supes, he's at his best when he shows his humanity. Some writers forget that Batman's real purpose in life is to save people from the darkness, not to brood in it.
It really is nice. But it saddens me some of the other villains never got the chance. Harvey Dent in particular got one helluva shaft by the end.
This episode goes into the psychological horror thriller category and it's pretty insane.
As someone who was wrestled with personal demons Arnold's struggle always shows me that theres always hope, you can be better and reclaim your life!
Yeah Scarface's always creepy sneak up around Arnold making his life difficult and uneasy every time Scarface's look show up out of nowhere.
Even though it's pretty charitable of Bruce to give an ex-criminal like Wesker a job at his company, Batman turning his enemies into subordinates is a pretty hilarious idea. Imagine Batman putting Penguin, Riddler, Harley, Poison Ivy etc to work in a fast food restaurant owned by Wayne Enterprises 🤣
I think you mean Wesker. Arnold Wesker.
I’d make Riddler my head of building or computer security, Poison Ivy would run any agricultural or greenhouse projects, and Penguin could run business dev with his smooth talking charm.
@@Davidsworldtravels logical choices actually
@@DavidsworldtravelsI'm curious what you'd think of all the other villains in the rogues gallery.
@@joevenespineli6389 the others are much tougher as they are far too insane. Two Face would make a good lawyer if he wasn’t also trying to rob you. Joker is too dangerous but I’d let Harley run either the company gyms or even daycare. As long as she was supervised I don’t think she’d ever hurt children and would likely protect/entertain them.
I actually think Mr Freeze could work in biotech as well as cooling server rooms and industrial projects. If you gave him his own sub zero lab and funding I can actually see that working out well. Especially if it was for curing people like his wife. Man bat could be in gene editing, Cat woman would be in corporate espionage, Clayface would be a body double for when Bruce and Batman needed to be in the same place or for security reasons. Bane would be in building demolition and international security.
Ra’s Al Ghoul would run health and environmental compliance while Hugo Strange would be the company therapist ;P
A notable casting note: Mrs. Segar and Hips McManus were played by Patty Maloney and Billy Barty, respectively. Both are Dwarf actors, which was a nice bit of proper representation, even if it was for animations.
Nice touch in my opinion.
This was a fantastic final episode for a character who really deserved a happy ending. And as always, George Dzundza does an amazing job making the Ventriloquist and Scarface sound like two completely different people.
2:25 Lois and Clark's cameo in the park scene was a pretty cool easter egg. I bet the dialogue both characters had there was:
Clark: "I have to admit it, Lois. This trip to Gotham is turning out to be much more enjoyable than what I expected. How did you come up with the idea?"
Lois: "You see, Smallvile, I thought that coming to this beautiful Gotham park would give us a wholesome and profound experience of how well the beauty of nature complements the oppressive environment of a city so corrupted by cri..."
Clark: "You only came here hoping to find Bruce, right?"
Lois: "Do you think I applied my makeup well?" 😉
That legitimately sounds like a conversation they would have.
Honestly, this is one of my favorite episodes from the New Adventures season, because it feels a lot like a classic BTAS episode and avoids two of the main pitfalls of the New Adventures; whenever one of the villains shows up in this, they usually just do the bare minimum; commit villainy and display their expected gimmicks and personality quirks (usually) but otherwise, the episode does little to humanize them or give them more depth (as they tend not to be the main focus), and of course, Batman being cold, detached and just going through the motions when fighting his adversaries, like it’s just business as usual and his only goal is to book the criminal. “Double Talk” brilliantly averts this, by showcasing both Bruce’s compassionate side with him being willing to do whatever he can to help Wesker both in and out of costume, and exploring Wesker’s character more, as this is his only appearance where he’s actually the focal character, and in hindsight, given how Batman Beyond abstained from telling us the fates of most of Batman’s original adversaries and how they were vetoed from Justice League due to the Bat-embargo, Wesker being given conclusive (and happy) ending to his story is all the more satisfying.
Next time on Bat-May, Bruce Timm's first crack at crack pairings XD
*Fun fact:* There is a huge possibility that the Scarface doll is possessed by a curse in the comic continuity, as it was made from the remains of a wooden pole from a gallows used to execute hundreds of prisoners. In fact, one of the reasons Wesker and Scarface's toxic relationship persists so long is that whenever the Ventriloquist tries to get rid of it, the dummy always seems to return to him of its own accord, taking several lives along the way.
Do you think he's related to Slappy from Goosebumps?
To me the way i would see Wesker and scarface showing up In a possible live action Batman movie is have Dane Dehann as a young Wesker who could be a nerdy young stand up ventriloquist who ended up thinking his doll scarface is talking to him and have it that Scarface is voiced by Joe Pesci who could look like a doll like Harry from Home alone
That's from the comics not the cartoon series. All the supernatural stuff was left out of the cartoon adaptation. It's also made clear in the show that the Ventriloquist has actually had multiple different puppets across all of his appearances as the doll keeps getting destroyed and we even see him rebuilding the dummy from scratch in one of the episodes. It's also made clear in this episode that Scarface was never actually moving on his own, Rhino and Muggsy were behind creating the illusion of Scarface moving on his own. Some of the scenes in this episode were adapted from scenes in those comics but they did clearly change the mystical elements to a more realistic explanation.
Well as realistic as it gets with an evil alter trope. The show still gets a lot of things wrong when it comes to portraying DID.
Now that's dark
Also there actorly is a comic where he walks and talks by himself.
1. I love that the Ventriloquist actually got a definitive end to his story and a positive one at that. That's *very rare* for Batman's rogue's gallery
2. This episode was beyond creepy with how it depicts Arnold questioning his own sanity and him nearly falling back into his old ways.
3. I like how across *all* DC media that includes the Ventriloquist we never get a 100% clear answer on what the deal with the doll is. Sometimes it seems like just a personality that's a product of Arnold's mind, other times its implied to be *legitimately cursed* to always come back to Arnold no matter how hard he tries to get rid of it.
In an issue of detective comics when Peyton Reily got ahold of Scarface, Zatanna confirmed that Scarface was a conduit for other people’s thoughts and emotions, but was not himself alive.
Wesker is the only redeemable villain in this franchise.
This Batman doing the backfist was a callback to Batman '89
I love how the showrunners gave Scarface a creative, brutal death whenever possible. Easy to sidestep the censors when your victim is a wooden puppet.
I love The Ventriloquist and how he's presented in BTAS/TNBA, so I'm glad he gets a happy ending here.
He really should be in more media.
I still think ventriloquist and scar face don’t get enough love, like the whole split personality, the mobster theme, I just think it’s great! We need mor scar face and ventriloquist
It may seem silly to think about a man talking orders from his own puppet, and yet the ventriloquist does a wonderful job for all of his appearances. That and for us to actually have someone who does overcome their dark half is a nice change of pace compared to all the other examples we’ve seen (even this month) of villains falling back into bad habits.
It is nice to see at the end, it wasn’t Batman who did the final blow, but the ventriloquist himself) since we could say he would have snapped and tried to bring Scarface back yet again like we’ve seen time and again). A nice ending to a unique villain.
In some ways the ending to this is exactly what SHOULD have happened. As some people have pointed out (especially Terry Pratchett in his books), when dealing with a monster inside someone (like the monster under the bed in a child's mind), you can go two ways, you can keep trying to convince the kid the monster isn't real, or you can give them the tools needed to fight back and defeat it, like the little spray bottle of water marked "Monster repellent". As long as Wesker was trying to say Scarface didn't exist, his mind would keep fighting it. But now, having done what he did, he symbolically "killed" Scarface, so his mind can work with the fact Scarface is DEAD, and move on from there.
Something like this might work on Two Face as well, rather than trying to suppress "Big Bad Harl" maybe try and build up Harvey's Psyche so he could stand up to and DEAFEAT him. Maybe then we wouldn't have gotten the Judge later on.
2:25, Lois and Clark cameo in the background. A subtle Easter egg or a foreshadowing of a crossover.
I was so happy that they chose to give Wesker a successful rehabilitation episode. As long as he stays away from woodcarving for the rest of his life he should be fine.
This is one of my favorite episodes because it shows a bit more than other incarnations that Batman doesn't just lock up foes. He also seeks to help them back on their feet. Giving them a helping hand as Bruce Wayne during the day, then guarding them in the night as the Dark Knight.
Kinda like how with clay face (atleast in BTAS) he always referred to him as Matt Hagen and tried to convince him to let him work to cure him of the mutation caused by Daggets formula. Or how he tries to help Harvey Dent with the surgery to fix his scarred face to help him fight the “Big Bad Harv” persona. I think in the grand scheme of things, the Joker is the only Batman villain that is painted as truly an irredeemable character.
Batgirl: "I really admire your compassion for giving Wesker a second chance, Bruce. But doesn't it seem a little risky to give him a job within your own company?"
Batman: "Don't worry Barbs, Wesker is reformed and won't hurt anyone anymore. Besides, it's not the first time a rich hero has given a former villain a job. Look at Adrian. He offered Moloch a job at Veidt Enterprises as soon as he was released from prison, and they've both done very well ever since. It's pretty rare for Moloch to constantly go to the doctor these days though..."
It's not often that villains who don't show up anymore, end with an episode like this. With reform. One of the few times a character's absence is a _good_ thing.
I love how Wesker being tormented by Scarface comes off like something out of a horror movie, especially the scenes in his darkly lit apartment.
It's nice that the show finally had a story about a villain trying to reform and actually have the redemption stick in the end.
Imo the show needed more stories like that. I mean if you are not gonna use villains like the Riddler or Two Face in a meaningful way again you might as well give them some closure
This show as a whole was my introduction to Lucius Fox, and this episode in particular introduced me to psychological horror, and good for this show giving Arnold Wesker some closure and growth as a character. So rare in comic books and related media.
And I can't believe I missed Clark and Lois in the park for all these years!
Terrific episode! It’s really spooky and mysterious. It’s fun how Rhino and Mugsy have one plan but their boss has a different one. Scarface really gets pushed to his limits in this event, but then he gets taken out by the last person he ever suspected; His own partner! Truly thrilling!
Wesker after reforming and destroying Scarface: "Thank you very much for trusting me until the end, Batman"
Batman: "No, I'm the one who should thank you for not giving up hope of a second chance at life, Albert. Thanks to you, Gotham will now be a slightly safer place to live...Maybe I'll even sleep well tonight..." *Says goodbye with a smile before leaving*
Yeah letting Arnold having a better life than Scarface's coming back to do villains stuffs.
Since we don’t see them again, besides in an alternate universe version of them in Justice League. It’s nice to know Arnold got a happy ending as the only villain to actually reform
The one episode to have Arnold Wesker makes a new life and no longer a criminal and got rid of Scarface for good. I like it. As well as the other two bad guys, man. Talk about a bunch of pushovers.
When i saw batman checking in on wesker and wesker starts tearing up over being given a second chance that was legit wholesome moment. I was like WOW Btas batman is still in that new design at least a little
His new redesign makes Arnold look much more sympathetic, he constantly looks nervous all the time
I love Ventriloquist’s ending here, and it made me disappointed to see him in Arkham in a later episode, but I choose to believe that one came earlier in continuity.
Its nice that Arnold actually managed to reform as far as we know, from all the "villains" he was the most redeemable since he really was just a mentally ill guy without a bad bone in his body.
It's nice to see the Ventriloquist get redeemed. You could tell throughout the entire episode that he wants to turn a new leaf and move on.
“For once in your life do something right.”
Soooooo many people have heard this line from an abusive figure in their life. Seeing Wesker turn the gun and waste Scarface was a great finale to his character arc. One of the things I love about these 90s shows is their tackling of complex issues in ways younger audiences could easily grasp and “Double Talk” was another great example of this.
2:26 I was not expecting that either lol😂😂😂😂
Our first villain to actually follow through on his redemption!
😎
And it couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy!
I’ve always wanted to see the ventriloquist in a Batman movie just to see them freak out the general audience
Live action Scarface? That would be cool like having his voice come from the shadows all meancing and then the big reveal!
Who would played the ventriloquist though? The only guy I’m thinking is Jeff Dunham so maybe he can do it? Idk
@@Alderam95Or at least hire him as a consultant/trainer for the Ventriloquist actor
One of, if not THE ONLY villain rehab episode where the rehab element actually sticks!
It was a good one for me for two reasons.
The first showing how Batman does try and see the good in people as he looked into what most people thought was an insane man going through a relapse.
The second? The fact we did have a villain recovery.
I never noticed Loise and Clark in the background of that scene before! Thanks for pointing that out. I have all the episodes on TH-cam and go back to re-watch some of these after your BatMay shorts. I'm old enough to have watched them all on when they first ran on tv but it's nice to go back and re-watch them.
When I saw this episode, I had the idea of rewriting it so Mugsy and Rhino hire the Mad Hatter to transfer Scarface's personality into another person. I figured this would allow the introduction of the second Ventriloquist, Peyton Riley.
Or perhaps someone new, like Shuana Belzer and her freaky doll Ferdie.
I remember the first time i was introduced to Scarface and the ventriloquist in The Batman cartoon, they were very interesting. In fact, they did this scenario in the cartoon with some changes here and there
The fact that Lucius Fox is played by aku aku from crash bandicoot really makes my heart melt
Wesker being a successful redemption character is good to see.
Wesker's redesign makes a lot of sense, in my mind. The dude's a weenie, a total pushover who couldn't hurt anyone even if he wanted to. I think the design reflects that incredibly well.
Holy Bat-May! I never noticed Lois and Clark in the background until now.
Arnold really is one of the most tragic Batman villains, right up there with characters like Mr Freeze, Harley Quinn and Two-Face.
I still wonder if Scarface truly is a supernatural being of sorts?
An issue of Detective comics when ownership of Scarface switched to Peyton Reily answered this question. Zatanna herself confirmed that Scarface was a conduit for other people’s thoughts, emotions, and even alternate personalities, but was not himself alive.
Nice last big appearance for a great and underrated Batmam Villain. Hope to get him in Live Action.
These classic reviews are what I live for, pretty great home slice keep up the good work
Nice that at least one of the villains got a satisfying conclusion in this revival.
Incidentally, this was the first Ventriloquist episode that I saw, so I had no idea who any of these villains were. So it seemed like a bit of an oddball story, especially compared to other Batman episodes I had seen by this point.
It's great that Arnold was able to overcome his oppressor
I really like that we got a rehabilitation episode that actually succeeded. Wesker didn’t just go straight back to Arkham, he actually managed to pull through
Always love the ventriloquist character. One of the few characters that showed that batman's "no kill rule" does produce results 🤔🤔🤔🤔
Nice clever cameo that Clark and Lois in this episode
I liked how they got Billy Barty to play the voice of Hips McManus.
Scarface: "Better look sharp, youse mugs! Scarface is back!"
Damn, you over here hitting me with my childhood memories and such and such, having me 'member all the good times and such... I could say I appreciate that thanks
I really like that Arnold got a happy ending. Especially since The New Batman Adventures is generally darker and a bit more cynical than TAS.
3:57
Yeah, that makes me laugh every time!
🤣
I really hope we get a live action Ventriloquist and Scarface. May Matt Reeves or James Gunn make our wishes come true
I want him and I want The Judge
While I think Second Chance is probably the best of the villain rehabilitation episodes because Batman and Two-Face have an established arc over multiple episodes, this one is a real close second because of how they work the tragedy of Arnold Wesker fighting his inner demons
Hearing Conroy's Batman again is bittersweet.
Thanks for the video.
The punch Batman "set-up" cracks me up because reminds me of when Helga punches out Brainy in Hey Arnold
It's hard to know these are certain characters' final appearances at the time, but in retrospect, it can make the episodes more meaningful. This was a good one, for one of my favorite gimmicks. And you blew my mind with that Clark and Lois Easter egg!
(BTW, this video's last line- is that a Razon Ramon reference?)
I swear, man, these cartoons were fucking brilliant.
It must have been heartbreaking to write what would be the final bow for a lot of these legendary rogues, and greater impetus to do it right. Nice psychological horror beats as poor Wesker is tormented (he's not brave like his equally crazy older brother, Albert). In fact both of Scarface's main episodes involve a worrying uncertainty factor as to how 'real' Scarface is. Reminds me of a book where the Joker planted false clues to convince everyone that he is actually a malevolent chaos spirit that possesses a human once every century.
6:14- (ala Captain Kirk) "I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF *YOU*!!"
I think the idea of Wesker trying to subdue and fight his darker half, AKA Scarface is a great idea, as he's one of the most sympathetic villains in Batman's roster. However, I personally hate the redesign of Scarface and the Ventriloquist. Scarface especially looks awful in my opinion.
I really love Arnold in this episode where after being mentally bullied by his alter personality I felt proud of him for fighting against Scarface
Beautiful
this is actually one of my favorites since it actually ended well for a change
this was a good one. i especially like seeing that more compassionate side of bruce. and that lois and clark cameo, never noticed that
Yeah definitely one of my favourite episodes as it was nice too see an actual rehabilitation from one of Batman's most sympathetic villains
Glad Arnold got got his happy ending
Cool they got real little people to voice the characters!
I always thought he got better, but couldn't remember for sure. Yay for closure!
That image of Scarface in the phone booth is really cool
Nice Scott Hall tribute. "Say goodnight to the Bad Guy."
The Ventriloquist was always one of the silliest villains in the entire Batman canon. And BTAS made him one of the most fascinating villains ever. That was BTAS's greatest strength. And this was definitely the Ventriloquist's greatest, if most terrifying, moment.
The only time I felt that BTAS really slipped up was with Maxie Zeus, but that's another story....
I liked the way they did Maxie Zeus too!
@@robchuk4136 Yeah, but they made a mistake. In the comics he was a little guy convinced he looked like and WAS a God. BTAS made him actually look like the God he believed he was, which defeats the purpose of the character.
That said, I loved the scene when he was wheeled into Arkham Asylum and identified the "regulars" as his fellow Gods. It just seemed so right.
I’m glad Wesker was the one villain to make it out. He really deserved it.
These are so good I always demand more as soon as it’s over, but I can’t let them bank.
I actually really like that they seemingly let the Ventriloquist be reformed in this one. Too often do shows just do the whole is he isn't he nonsense and just have them become the villain again.
I love the use of Tony Montana quote at the end
No matter how dark the city is, there is always hope for everyone.
Every episode with scar face was scary to me as a kid, especially the he gets shot at towards the end where the camera zooms in on his mangled wooden face just gave me the creeps.
When i first watch this as a kid , i cheered when albert unload the machine gun into scarface. Its was a great character moment i didnt see coming.
Bat May, Day 11
If the ventriloquist and Scarface ever came to the big screen, I could see William H. Macy as Arnold Wesker.
Scarface and New Ventriloquist Peyton Riley in Batman Beyond 2: Gotham Forever
Man, the way Scarface just appears behind Wesker on the couch sent chills down my spine!
The Ventriloquist's best moment was in Knightfall when Scarface and a sick puppet got into an argument that ended in gun violence.
While I'm not a huge Ventriloquist/Scarface fan, this episode is pretty cool. These characters deserve the big-screen treatment.