I am proud to be a Catholic. By not being able to have Communion I really realise what I am missing out on. People will flock back to the Churches in greater numbers once the COVID-19 virus is over. We love Jesus. Amen.
@@JamesRichardWiley You need to study history much more thoroughly before making such claims, which are not only against any minimal critic, but which, itself, is a fallacy.
Word on Fire has answered many questions that I wondered about. The one question was in the Apostle's Creed, where is states "He descended into hell " I could n't imagine Our Lord in hell. Many of my 80 years I wondered about this sentence, and 'Bishop Barron brought clarity to this question in one of his talks. I would also thank Bishop Barron for the daily Mass I watch each day .
I also enjoy Brandon and Bishop Barron's conversations. This is one of the best. And Brendon is so well educated and such a great scholarly counterpart to Bishop Baron
You might also be interested and amused with the thought that considering the Catholic church chose from around 25k manuscripts of the new testament and declared with authority which manuscripts and books are divinely inspired. Then in the 1500s the reformation started. They should've had their own selection of manuscripts and books and not use the one the Catholic church declared are the true scriptures. Or else it shows they accept the Catholic Church's God given authority to declare truths. God bless you. I see you as a true brother, in Christ. This sharing is with brotherly love. Respectfully.... Larry
@@larrylim8050 thanks bro. I am now in the process of deconstructing a lot of reformed theology. I am not sure that the theological and soteriological divide is as big as it was made out to be
Bishop Barron, I've been following you for years! You make the complex clear, thank you for that gift you have. I'm Praying for Mother Church, and her Bishops, Priests , Deacons, and Laity for more honest Holy Messengers like yourself. God bless you in Fighting The Good Fight. ❤️🙏❤️
@@JamesRichardWiley While Faith is a gift from God, the means to receiving it can be many and varied; the Church exists to spread the Faith through means inspired by the Holy Spirit. History has proved it consistently and will continue to do so.
PLEASE I implore the WOF team to put up a more suitable video backdrop for the Bishop. Blue screen is so cold and lacking in feeling and detracts from the warmth and tone of his work.
I think I'm a little confused about Bishop Barons response to the question about Jesus walking on water. Does he believe it was a real historical event where Jesus literally walked on water? Or, does he believe it more a metaphorical literary device meant to emphasize who Jesus was?
The Parish’s can’t be aware of available teaching or coaching or resources to better enlighten the Parishioners At times it us up to the lay person, that’s us, you and me to initiate the discussion and make efforts such as talking to the Priest to agree that the material so that it can be better communicated.
Whether or not it is the right or proper thing to do (by whatever standard), people will see Jesus, whether rightly or mistakenly, as they choose to see him. This is simply an ineluctable and undeniable practical matter of fact; since people as individuals can't but have their own criteria for and interpretation of what they believe to be the truth.
Why would twelve apostles go out and preach to a hostile world. With eleven of the twelve suffering horrible deaths. Why would this have happened, if not for them being with God. To me, it is obvious that Jesus came down.
Bishop Barron' talks always have a lot for us to think about however, pardon me if I may say that some very important points were not covered on this video. Maybe those can be covered on another video? While this is a compelling assertion of the intellectual and academic lens that scholars and experts have used to try and "see" the historical Jesus, something does not connect for me because it kinda misses out on the supernatural.The Apostles were willing to risk their lives on the line because well, they have seen the resurrected Christ. Regarding the question at the end, it was a good analogy but I find it very insufficient. Can we just simplify it and bluntly say Jesus truly walked on water because He is God? The Apostles left with the only boat, leaving behind Jesus and when He caught up with them in the middle of the lake, walking on water, they were so fearful, like seeing a ghost. It was a miracle, simply put and when Jesus said "It is I", He is simply stating His divinity. The answer that I heard seems to not mention a miracle as what they said Jefferson did by erasing miracle accounts in his Bible.
The Christ of faith is the Christ of History. By the way, I like Mark and everything, but I am skeptical of Markan priority. Most of the reasons people give for Mark being the first gospel, is because it's the shortest. I'm also not buying the extremely late dates for the writings of the Gospels.
No, it's mostly because Matthew and Luke copy Mark almost word for word a lot of the time and not vice versa. In fact, there is no indication of other Gospels influencing Mark.
The Diocese of Las Cruces is celebrating masses in their parking lots. It is working for them. Perhaps more Dioceses need to think outside the box. Televised mass is not the same. 🙏🏻☹️
It is fascinating how many physical objects used by Jesus were preserved and how important they were for early believers - shroud, sudarion, gral, titulus damnationis, nails, tunic of Argenteuil etc . All traced to 1st century and how much ire of skeptics they generate who feel so threatened by mere possibility of his existence.
I know i can't see it at the hour but then i hope to listen. Thank You to God! Thank You Mommy Mary! God bless all! God loves us! Ever 😇😇😇 Thank You so much to all Saints
Dr Ben Witherington has a good book called the Gospel of Jesus. His book looks at all 4 gospels written in the historical context of 1st century Judea and the Roman Empire.
Academia, the place where this conversation around 'who is the historic Jesus, the man?' proliferates. As my now-grown son, whose professor criticized him for writing a sermon instead of a scholarly piece, asked me many years ago, 'Mom, how can you separate Jesus Christ from his divinity?' You can't, my son, ever.
This is another discussion rich in the beauty of the Catholic intellectual tradition. What Bishop Barron shares about methods starting out astounding everyone and quickly devolving is instructive. It seems the Western Academic culture has become enamored with analytically dismantling topics, but then often failing to bring the deconstruction back together as a whole. It seems to be about breaking ideas (words) down to the point they become sterile, particularly if they had held a religious or moral element. Look at what words like Charismatic, Love, and Virtue used to mean and how the meanings have shifted. So, Bravo! for encouraging us to keep focus on what is the whole, especially in our encounter with Jesus, both God and man.
If you want to bring up the quest for the historical jesus. What do you say about aspects of Christianity such as Easter and Christmas clearly being taken from older pagan traditions, as well as many elements of the Old and New Testament?
Bobbie C do you think you’re the first person person to bring up the epic of Gilgamesh ? Did you think that was really intelligent and groundbreaking ? If there was a massive global flood doesn’t it make sense that multiple cultures would take record of it? That sounds like a positive not a negative None of the great flood accounts are written first person they all describe an account of something that happened before them
Bobbie C I find it weird that when the Bible describes things there are no other accounts for people say well they can’t be real if no one else talks about it but when there are other accounts it’s just another made up story. I wish people would make up their minds
Bobbie C lol I grow tired of the same “intelligent “ ground breaking insight. The Bible is not a science text book neither does it explicitly make a claim to Noah’s age. Son of in the Bible refers to lineage not just direct offspring. All the great flood stories refer to a past event none of them talk in first person so your claims of one copying another sound stupid. In any other historical context multiple cultures describing the same events is a positive marker of the story being credible nota negative you just gave a Supernatural prejudice
Try my dad's book! Bas van Os' "Psychological Analyses and the Historical Jesus: New Ways to Explore Christian Origins". He'd love to discuss it with you if you'll have him! :)
The commentator presents relevant and poignant summaries of the topic at hand which in this case is the Historical Jesus. The listener is prepared to hear the scholarship of Fr. Barron who is obviously so well educated in Catholic Theology and the scriptures. Non Catholics can benefit in listening to the presentations of these podcasts because they clarify history, contemporary criticism of christianity, and names writers and works we can look up to enrich our own education.
4:00 The Creeds, they are very interesting & revealing. Look closely at Paul's Creed you'll notice 2 very strange things. 1: He invokes no evidence or eyewitnesses for believing just scripture. 2: None of the specific historical details first introduced by Mark are there, no Baptist, no Mary & no Pilate. Skip past Paul, the Jewish War 66-70CE & Mark's composition to the time of Ignatius, say 110CE + and what do you find in the Creed? Suddenly it's important to assert belief in historical detail ie Mary & Pilate. If you truly want to objectively examine the historicity of Jesus there are 2 books you must read to balance academic assumptions. 1: Jesus; neither God nor Man by Earl Doherty. 2: On the Historicity of Jesus by Dr Richard Carrier PhD. Amen.
Can Jesus walk on water? Well everything in Creation was made by him - starting with the big bang designed in such an exquisite, finely tuned manner to bring about the creation of human life, consciousness and love ... from nothing, then hot matter and light.. So momentarily taking charge of the physical laws of this world - and walking on water, prior to conquering death and resurrecting from the grave ... and ascending to Heaven ... would have been a walk in the park for Christ .. or rather ..in the sea of Galilee !
Recently finished Brant Pitre regarding Blessed Virgin Mary. Motivated by your comments to understand more fully about Jesus’s life through Pope Benedict’s comments. Thank you for this discussion about perspective and frames of reference.
You ARE great Bishop! Also I heard you mention Brant Pitre. I am a huge fan of his. I highly recommend people watch Dr. Pitre’s TH-cam videos and read his books in addition to all of the Word of Fire content. 🙌🏽🔥🙏🏽
I really appreciate biblical scholars/historians (especially Bart Ehrman). It is humbling to have your pre-decided views on Jesus/the church challenged because it shows that we don’t “know everything”. God exists beyond our perception, and it’s simply an act of the ego that we decide we know everything and can’t be wrong. Our relationships with God continue to evolve as we grow and learn … both morally, spiritually, and historically.
Really appreciate the discussion in this video. Gotta admit, drove me nuts how Brandon kept saying that the "First Quest" lasted from the late eighteen century to the early NINETEENTH century (even after Bishop Barron interjected and offered correction on this 8:49).
Catholics changed the gospel preached by Jesus and Paul and all of Jesus's original Apostles. Paul in Galations 1:8 said " If anyone preaches any other gospel than the one we preached to you, let them be accursed." Paul prophesied the gospel changing preaching primarily catholics, but others as well. " Let them be accursed." Jesus cares about His gospel, the catholic church ignores Him, with their anti christ excuses.
Thank you Bishop and Brandon. This is a great review of a sometimes overwhelming topic. I have crawled through three volumes of Fr. John P. Meier's A Marginal Jew, learned a lot, but was struck by the many events his criteria for historicity eliminate, events that Pope Benedict XVI's brief three volume series you mention affirms. I concluded that Fr. Meier's criteria are too restrictive; you can be sure that what they let through is probably historical, but you can't be sure what they eliminate aren't historical. Thank you again.
These are not just softball questions, these are billowy fluffs of cotton candy. I would like to see the Bishop challenged on some of these howlers, respectfully of course. He either mischaracterizes arguments or doesn't address them.
You may not like or agree with him, but the work of John Dominic Crossan revolutionized my Faith. It made me realize that Resurrection and Salvation weren’t static events in the past but rather processes that I can participate in today. He taught me “hope is not optimism.” This Easter season I often meditate in these simple sentences: “Emmaus never happened. Emmaus always happens.” That was worth of month of Sunday homilies.
I like this. This sermon favors no one past or present when pointing out that turning Jesus into only just another historical figure prophet like Isaiha and Elisha is an error; Saying that Jesus Christ is only one among many more prophets still to come in the future or only 2 more witnesses needed for the world to be saved is so very problematic.
Fascinating! Thanks for the overview and the answer to the question at the end was spot on. The supernatural things that happen in the Bible do not happen just because. There are deep theological roots and historical build up, leading up to them. In a small way, like the daily miracles that occur in our lives....
People like Barron have apparently never experienced anything. They walk through life and miss the main issues...which is: the multiple mysteries around us. Presence of God. Holy Angels who guide us. Barron wouldn't have any of it...all are imaginations of stupid uneducated people...no wonder the Church is now in such a mess.
Thank you Bishop Barron for "holding down the fort" during this troubling time in the whole world. And Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger said "Histo-critical exegeis is passing away." Alleluia!
Thanks for such a beautiful video, such a deep and comprehensive survey of the different schools & literature on the historical Jesus by BB. And Brandon is such a scholarly interviewer, always asking relevant & intelligent questions, amazing!
It is indeed...and his book on Christianity also great , but needs a slow digestion! The promotion of adult faith learning is so necessary -and often so poorly promoted.
Respectfully, Fr Barron takes away from Jesus the fact that He is God and walking on water to him is just showing us his power over the creation. Presenting it like just a "theologically elaborated painting" rather than a histroical FACT truly undermines the Divinity.of Christ, the God-Man. Creation is not more powerful than God, its Creator. Creation is a creature and submits to its Creator.
Deus Vult - I’ve re-listened to his answer, and get the sense he means something different by “theologically elaborated” than what some of us have received it as. I can only speak for myself: for whatever reasons when I first hear “elaborated” my mind elides it to “lies” or “embellished falsehood.” Reflecting on it, that’s too narrow, and misses Bishop Barron’s meaning. “Elaborated” simply means “worked out” or “(more) fully developed.” By “theologically elaborated” I think he means “theologically illustrated”, “theologically illuminated.” Christ walking on water does not simply show His mastery over creation; it shows He is one with God. Hence why the Gospelists intentionally allude to God’s Spirit hovering over the waters in Genesis and God passing by in Job.
Friend, my point was that it is both! I'm not denying the historicity of Jesus walking on water at all. I'm pointing out how the evangelists presented the event in a theologically elaborated way.
I hope you are right about Catholics flocking back to church; however, reminds me of the wave of patriotism after 9:11. How long did that feeling last? The feelings have to converted to a dynamic change in the person. Sure, the Catholics who were daily or weekly attenders will go back. Will new attendees emerge?
Greetings Bishop Barron from Manila Philippines. The daily Word on Fire masses from your chapel are a hugh blessing during this lent and Easter Season. Please keep on airing as Covid Lockdown keeps us from going to our local parish church St Jerome Parish in Ayala Alabang Metro Manila. Want to have ClubTRP Coach entrepreneurs commit to becoming Word on Fire Evangelists who support your ministry. Peg is "Examen and Entrepreneurship" Word on Fire training videos fall on the "Examen" Side. On Entrepreneurship I lean on Product Launch Formula of Jeff Walker to become a digital Entrepreneur. I become an OFW- an Online Filipino Worker. Just as I launch my ClubTRPCoach Seminar--Online and Live. Pray for this work Bishop Barron.
DearBishop Barron, thank you for your inspiración and instruction. I would very much appreciate it if you could commenti on a book writtrn in the 19th century by Ernest Renan, titled "vie de Jésus." I've been greatly discutere by it. Thank you, and may Our Lord and Saviour Jesuschrist continue abundantly to bless you and your invaluable ministry. AMEN.
Very wordy, but fails to answer these questions: (1) are the Gospels accurate? (2) Have the Gospels been altered since their writing (ca. 45 AD)? (3) St. Paul says that "we see through a glass, darkly" at this time-what has been obscured? I am still puzzled.
Recently finished Brant Pitre regarding Blessed Virgin Mary. Motivated by your comments to understand more fully about Jesus’s life through Pope Benedict’s comments. Thank you for this discussion about perspective and frames of reference.
It's such a shame that Christian thinkers struggle so much to approach serious historical questions like this one (and others) with true objectivity. I understand why. I even empathize. But given how central the historicity of Jesus is to Christianity, i would have thought that those with the intellectuel clarity to sort through complex subjects in theology would also possess the intellectual fortitude to give the historicity question the most rigorous scientific objectivity. Yet, that does not happen. I've yet to see it in my 30 years as a historian and scholar. That saddens me. And it should sadden the faithful. It shows that Christianity is in a state of collapse. It also means that people who could be models of clear thinking (theologians and priests) can no longer be that for the very people who rely on them for guidance in this world - the devout. Such a pity
I’ll believe in Jesus as “god” when you can explain how Jesus (as YHWH) sent himself to sacrifice himself TO himself to somehow appease himself for creating man while knowing before he created man that man would “fall”....I won’t hold my breath pal
Jesus Lives ToDay. Seek Him YourSelf..ToDay. Jesus is a Living God! He is not a book or a man reading a book. Even the Samaritan woman understood who Jesus was better than you people.
Dear Bishop, I just had a passionate discussion with a priest friend about the Apostles roll by following the admonition of Jesus to go forth to whole world and spread the Good News. During this pandemic, I’m questioning the lack of courage of the worlds Bishops and Priests who are being lead to the slaughter by closing the churches, refusing Mass and Communion to God’s people and following the dictates of governments. I’m soooo disappointed that the creative minds have not moved to find a way to be bold, have the strength and courage like the Apostles of old.
NT Wright’s Simply Christian is also very good. A quicker read than the book cited in this video, but with great points on the historicity of the New Testament. He is not Catholic though, so his doctrinal points are occasionally different than Bishop Barron’s. Also, I have never heard Bishop Barron say a movie was awful before...it must really be awful. Poorly made and poorly written.
An excellent explanation of a long-controversial issue. Bishop Baron discusses everything from Jefferson's redacted Bible (to remove all miracles) to the present day, and in particular how the modern view comes together in Pope Benedict XVI's series about Jesus. Highly recommend!
I am also proud of being a Catholic and I miss the real body and blood (holy Eucharisist) of themass/ will be glad to be a ble to return to my church He is my Lord and Saviour, without him I are nothing. I pray people come back to the church and not ever forget the corona virus/
The instinct to delineate between Jesus of history and Christ of faith is easy to explain. In the saints or the life of the church is see Christ’s attributes. I see there his mercy, compassion, piety, his mysticism, his utter closeness to God. But I certainly don’t see a 1st century bloke in them. I don’t see a man in st. Catherine of Siena. She has God inside of her and it may be the incarnate God, but it’s not Jesus. We saw Jesus, it was a man who walked the Roman province of Judea. And I certainly don’t see this one around. I only see people who are like him. That’s why we say there is a distinction between Jesus and Christ. It may be smell of heresy, perhaps of adoptianism, but at least it makes sense and I am happy to believe in such a God
By "bracketing history" he means suspending judgement on historical questions, in this case the existence and nature of Christ, almost as if the essence of Christ's teaching can be understood independently of His existence. The term "bracketing" became prominent through the phenomenological philosophy of Edmund Husserl, in which Husserl studied the essence of our conscious awareness of ideas, things and states, without though coming to a conclusion about the existence of the objects of these ideas, etc. This method is rich insofar as it allows us to study the forms of life in general, but limited in that it gives us no path to asserting the ultimate truth or falsity of our thoughts. I'm no expert, but that's how I see it.
wow those words are so full of deep meaning in a very short dialogue about Jesus. 😊👍 this quarantine with coronavirus has keep me watching your beautiful meaningful catholic youtube videos👍😊 i learned so much..thank you 👍😊
This WOF show opened up a new world of dialog on the Historical Jesus. I was fascinated and intrigued by the depth of this study I had not encountered as a lifelong Catholic. Once again, thank you Bishop Barron.
I love Jesus Christ, If only I had been born at the same time. I often reflect on how Jesus did physical work before he became an academic. I'll settle for being born at the time of Bishop Robert Baron.
I always see your shows a week or 2 after your broadcasting. But it continues to deliver the messages Jesus wants you to deliver. I praise God for you and Word on Fire. Truely instruments of God!
I enjoy listening to Bishop Barron's explanations to the plethora of questions on so many aspects of our faith, which over the years continues to affirm my own faith
In search for Historical Jesus by Albert Schweitzer. I read a little on this in my early college. But was driven instead of "In search of Jesus by faith". There was a reason by Jesus or maybe Mary, none of the early Christian writers to left out 12 years of Jesus and glaringly few about Mary and Joseph family life. Anyway, looking forward to this. Been on IT for so long... need to see fresh lights on Jesus.
I wish the good bishop would have simply said that Jesus walked on water. Bp. Barron's icon analogy leaves it open that somehow the Gospel writer "wrote Jesus large." Perhaps Bp. Barron takes a later date for the Gospels rather than the Gospels being authorized by or written by Jesus's Apostles (except for G of Luke). Certainly, Catholic Christology would not negate the possibility of such an attesting miracle.
MacClellandMan - I too wish he firmly said so. I think it’s implied in “historical core.” Thankfully his description of “theologically elaborated way” and analogy with an icon painter rule out the Gospelists writing Jesus large: by alluding to God’s Spirit over the waters at creation in Genesis, and God passing by in Job, they are illustrating that Christ is God. Elucidating the event with Scripture isn’t writing Christ large, but painting Him truthfully. Bishop Barron’s bigger point was that we have to extricate ourselves from the assumption that entrapped many on these historical Jesus quests. Step-by-step reporting of the mere event =/= the whole truth.
Hi from San Diego good hear this discussion, I appreciate bishop Barron he has done his homework & helps us dive deep into important church fathers & teachings
I've heard it on good authority that certain yogis have been able to levitate and actually float across small valleys. This is documented in a particularly good yoga book from the 1950s, where the British author had been to India and heard the above on good authority. I suppose this is pretty remarkable from a western viewpoint, although you could say 'so what'!?
Historians start off with a bias. It’s about what we can know , with natural explanations. But really most we have on Jesus is the gospels. Unfortunately for some reason many historians don’t believe in the church fathers. This is huge mistake. It’s a ridiculous prejudice. There is something I always found strange about the Gospels. Sign above Jesus head on the cross saying the king of the Jews. In the gospels Jesus doesn’t speak much about this kingship. Is it possible that Jesus was crucified for claiming he was a king?
Thank you Bishop Barron for always presenting us with wonderful information concerning our faith and it's history. It's a pleasure listening to your videos!
Greetings from England.
Christ is the gift that keeps on giving
I am proud to be a Catholic.
By not being able to have Communion I really realise what I am missing out on.
People will flock back to the Churches in greater numbers once the COVID-19 virus is over.
We love Jesus.
Amen.
@@JamesRichardWiley You are a person imagined by Jesus actually.
@@JamesRichardWiley Eitherway metaphysics aside, He was a historical person.
@@JamesRichardWiley His historical existence is undisputed by scholars
@@JamesRichardWiley Study shroud of Turin - its history, its impact on art how "imaginary person radiated his image into that cloth"
@@JamesRichardWiley You need to study history much more thoroughly before making such claims, which are not only against any minimal critic, but which, itself, is a fallacy.
These two brought me back to the church. I can't love them enough for my return.♥️
Word on Fire has answered many questions that I wondered about. The one question was in the Apostle's Creed, where is states "He descended into hell "
I could n't imagine Our Lord in hell. Many of my 80 years I wondered about this sentence, and 'Bishop Barron brought clarity to this question in one of his talks.
I would also thank Bishop Barron for the daily Mass I watch each day .
I also enjoy Brandon and Bishop Barron's conversations. This is one of the best. And Brendon is so well educated and such a great scholarly counterpart to Bishop Baron
I am a protestant but love listening to him. I just wish my vocabulary was as intricate as his.
You might also be interested and amused with the thought that considering the Catholic church chose from around 25k manuscripts of the new testament and declared with authority which manuscripts and books are divinely inspired.
Then in the 1500s the reformation started. They should've had their own selection of manuscripts and books and not use the one the Catholic church declared are the true scriptures. Or else it shows they accept the Catholic Church's God given authority to declare truths.
God bless you. I see you as a true brother, in Christ. This sharing is with brotherly love. Respectfully.... Larry
@@larrylim8050 thanks bro. I am now in the process of deconstructing a lot of reformed theology. I am not sure that the theological and soteriological divide is as big as it was made out to be
Me too!
Bishop Barron, I've been following you for years! You make the complex clear, thank you for that gift you have. I'm Praying for Mother Church, and her Bishops, Priests , Deacons, and Laity for more honest Holy Messengers like yourself. God bless you in Fighting The Good Fight. ❤️🙏❤️
@@JamesRichardWiley
While Faith is a gift from God, the means to receiving it can be many and varied; the Church exists to spread the Faith through means inspired by the Holy Spirit. History has proved it consistently and will continue to do so.
PLEASE I implore the WOF team to put up a more suitable video backdrop for the Bishop. Blue screen is so cold and lacking in feeling and detracts from the warmth and tone of his work.
I think I'm a little confused about Bishop Barons response to the question about Jesus walking on water. Does he believe it was a real historical event where Jesus literally walked on water? Or, does he believe it more a metaphorical literary device meant to emphasize who Jesus was?
This is such a high level of theological education. I feel so blessed to be able to partake! Thank you Bishop Barron and Brandon.
🙏🏻❤️🙏🏻
Ĺ
Should the the USCCB consider getting the Vatican to permit a tour of the US of the SHROUD OF TURIN???
Greetings and best wishes from an Anglican.
I love You, Father Barron. I realy, realy do.
@Mountaindew the irony is that it's YOU who should learn UNBIASED history away from lies and propaganda.
W O F is such a great resource and so poorly promoted at parish level.
The
Parish’s can’t be aware of available teaching or coaching or resources to better enlighten the Parishioners
At times it us up to the lay person, that’s us, you and me to initiate the discussion and make efforts such as talking to the Priest to agree that the material so that it can be better communicated.
So interesting. I keep hearing about N. T. Wright. I'm going to have to start reading him. Thanks for this topic and discussion.
Whether or not it is the right or proper thing to do (by whatever standard), people will see Jesus, whether rightly or mistakenly, as they choose to see him. This is simply an ineluctable and undeniable practical matter of fact; since people as individuals can't but have their own criteria for and interpretation of what they believe to be the truth.
Why would twelve apostles go out and preach to a hostile world. With eleven of the twelve suffering horrible deaths. Why would this have happened, if not for them being with God. To me, it is obvious that Jesus came down.
Bishop Barron' talks always have a lot for us to think about however, pardon me if I may say that some very important points were not covered on this video. Maybe those can be covered on another video? While this is a compelling assertion of the intellectual and academic lens that scholars and experts have used to try and "see" the historical Jesus, something does not connect for me because it kinda misses out on the supernatural.The Apostles were willing to risk their lives on the line because well, they have seen the resurrected Christ.
Regarding the question at the end, it was a good analogy but I find it very insufficient. Can we just simplify it and bluntly say Jesus truly walked on water because He is God? The Apostles left with the only boat, leaving behind Jesus and when He caught up with them in the middle of the lake, walking on water, they were so fearful, like seeing a ghost. It was a miracle, simply put and when Jesus said "It is I", He is simply stating His divinity. The answer that I heard seems to not mention a miracle as what they said Jefferson did by erasing miracle accounts in his Bible.
The Christ of faith is the Christ of History. By the way, I like Mark and everything, but I am skeptical of Markan priority. Most of the reasons people give for Mark being the first gospel, is because it's the shortest. I'm also not buying the extremely late dates for the writings of the Gospels.
No, it's mostly because Matthew and Luke copy Mark almost word for word a lot of the time and not vice versa. In fact, there is no indication of other Gospels influencing Mark.
@@JamesRichardWiley
*'Perfect'* doesn't exist under the sun.
Adam Hovey,
What do you think is the reason
for Mark's Gospel being SHORT?
The Diocese of Las Cruces is celebrating masses in their parking lots. It is working for them. Perhaps more Dioceses need to think outside the box. Televised mass is not the same. 🙏🏻☹️
I love these Word on Fire shows! Bishop Barron always brings such scholarship and insight to the subjects discussed. Thank you!
Thank You
L
It is fascinating how many physical objects used by Jesus were preserved and how important they were for early believers - shroud, sudarion, gral, titulus damnationis, nails, tunic of Argenteuil etc . All traced to 1st century and how much ire of skeptics they generate who feel so threatened by mere possibility of his existence.
I know i can't see it at the hour but then i hope to listen. Thank You to God! Thank You Mommy Mary! God bless all! God loves us! Ever 😇😇😇 Thank You so much to all Saints
Dr Ben Witherington has a good book called the Gospel of Jesus. His book looks at all 4 gospels written in the historical context of 1st century Judea and the Roman Empire.
Academia, the place where this conversation around 'who is the historic Jesus, the man?' proliferates. As my now-grown son, whose professor criticized him for writing a sermon instead of a scholarly piece, asked me many years ago, 'Mom, how can you separate Jesus Christ from his divinity?' You can't, my son, ever.
This is another discussion rich in the beauty of the Catholic intellectual tradition. What Bishop Barron shares about methods starting out astounding everyone and quickly devolving is instructive. It seems the Western Academic culture has become enamored with analytically dismantling topics, but then often failing to bring the deconstruction back together as a whole. It seems to be about breaking ideas (words) down to the point they become sterile, particularly if they had held a religious or moral element. Look at what words like Charismatic, Love, and Virtue used to mean and how the meanings have shifted. So, Bravo! for encouraging us to keep focus on what is the whole, especially in our encounter with Jesus, both God and man.
If you want to bring up the quest for the historical jesus. What do you say about aspects of Christianity such as Easter and Christmas clearly being taken from older pagan traditions, as well as many elements of the Old and New Testament?
Save Me it’s not and been disproved many times over
Bobbie C do you think you’re the first person person to bring up the epic of Gilgamesh ? Did you think that was really intelligent and groundbreaking ? If there was a massive global flood doesn’t it make sense that multiple cultures would take record of it? That sounds like a positive not a negative
None of the great flood accounts are written first person they all describe an account of something that happened before them
Bobbie C I find it weird that when the Bible describes things there are no other accounts for people say well they can’t be real if no one else talks about it but when there are other accounts it’s just another made up story. I wish people would make up their minds
Bobbie C lol I grow tired of the same “intelligent “ ground breaking insight. The Bible is not a science text book neither does it explicitly make a claim to Noah’s age. Son of in the Bible refers to lineage not just direct offspring. All the great flood stories refer to a past event none of them talk in first person so your claims of one copying another sound stupid. In any other historical context multiple cultures describing the same events is a positive marker of the story being credible nota negative you just gave a Supernatural prejudice
Try my dad's book!
Bas van Os' "Psychological Analyses and the Historical Jesus: New Ways to Explore Christian Origins". He'd love to discuss it with you if you'll have him! :)
Bishop Barron, I respectfully beg you to start to pray for our enemies during the prayers of the faithful.
LOVE your enemies and you have none.
Mary Pinakat ?
I wish I had a little chapel in my home.
The commentator presents relevant and poignant summaries of the topic at hand which in this case is the Historical Jesus.
The listener is prepared to hear the scholarship of Fr. Barron who is obviously so well educated in Catholic Theology and the scriptures. Non Catholics can benefit in listening to the presentations of these podcasts because they clarify history, contemporary criticism of christianity, and names writers and works we can look up to enrich our own education.
4:00 The Creeds, they are very interesting & revealing. Look closely at Paul's Creed you'll notice 2 very strange things. 1: He invokes no evidence or eyewitnesses for believing just scripture. 2: None of the specific historical details first introduced by Mark are there, no Baptist, no Mary & no Pilate. Skip past Paul, the Jewish War 66-70CE & Mark's composition to the time of Ignatius, say 110CE + and what do you find in the Creed? Suddenly it's important to assert belief in historical detail ie Mary & Pilate.
If you truly want to objectively examine the historicity of Jesus there are 2 books you must read to balance academic assumptions.
1: Jesus; neither God nor Man by Earl Doherty.
2: On the Historicity of Jesus by Dr Richard Carrier PhD.
Amen.
Thank you... what a great show, always great to listen to Bishop Barron...
Can Jesus walk on water? Well everything in Creation was made by him - starting with the big bang designed in such an exquisite, finely tuned manner to bring about the creation of human life, consciousness and love ... from nothing, then hot matter and light.. So momentarily taking charge of the physical laws of this world - and walking on water, prior to conquering death and resurrecting from the grave ... and ascending to Heaven ... would have been a walk in the park for Christ .. or rather ..in the sea of Galilee !
Recently finished Brant Pitre regarding Blessed Virgin Mary. Motivated by your comments to understand more fully about Jesus’s life through Pope Benedict’s comments. Thank you for this discussion about perspective and frames of reference.
You ARE great Bishop! Also I heard you mention Brant Pitre. I am a huge fan of his. I highly recommend people watch Dr. Pitre’s TH-cam videos and read his books in addition to all of the Word of Fire content. 🙌🏽🔥🙏🏽
I really appreciate biblical scholars/historians (especially Bart Ehrman). It is humbling to have your pre-decided views on Jesus/the church challenged because it shows that we don’t “know everything”. God exists beyond our perception, and it’s simply an act of the ego that we decide we know everything and can’t be wrong. Our relationships with God continue to evolve as we grow and learn … both morally, spiritually, and historically.
Really appreciate the discussion in this video. Gotta admit, drove me nuts how Brandon kept saying that the "First Quest" lasted from the late eighteen century to the early NINETEENTH century (even after Bishop Barron interjected and offered correction on this 8:49).
Catholics changed the gospel preached by Jesus and Paul and all of Jesus's original Apostles. Paul in Galations 1:8 said " If anyone preaches any other gospel than the one we preached to you, let them be accursed." Paul prophesied the gospel changing preaching primarily catholics, but others as well. " Let them be accursed." Jesus cares about His gospel, the catholic church ignores Him, with their anti christ excuses.
Thank you Bishop and Brandon. This is a great review of a sometimes overwhelming topic. I have crawled through three volumes of Fr. John P. Meier's A Marginal Jew, learned a lot, but was struck by the many events his criteria for historicity eliminate, events that Pope Benedict XVI's brief three volume series you mention affirms. I concluded that Fr. Meier's criteria are too restrictive; you can be sure that what they let through is probably historical, but you can't be sure what they eliminate aren't historical. Thank you again.
These are not just softball questions, these are billowy fluffs of cotton candy.
I would like to see the Bishop challenged on some of these howlers, respectfully of course. He either mischaracterizes arguments or doesn't address them.
36:26 the key point of the vid.
You may not like or agree with him, but the work of John Dominic Crossan revolutionized my Faith. It made me realize that Resurrection and Salvation weren’t static events in the past but rather processes that I can participate in today. He taught me “hope is not optimism.” This Easter season I often meditate in these simple sentences: “Emmaus never happened. Emmaus always happens.” That was worth of month of Sunday homilies.
Qwerty Well, I did need him for that. Others are on their own journey. I respect their paths.
@Qwerty Oh dear friend, I left Roman Catholicism a long time ago for a million other reasons.
I like this. This sermon favors no one past or present when pointing out that turning Jesus into only just another historical figure prophet like Isaiha and Elisha is an error; Saying that Jesus Christ is only one among many more prophets still to come in the future or only 2 more witnesses needed for the world to be saved is so very problematic.
Fascinating! Thanks for the overview and the answer to the question at the end was spot on. The supernatural things that happen in the Bible do not happen just because. There are deep theological roots and historical build up, leading up to them. In a small way, like the daily miracles that occur in our lives....
People like Barron have apparently never experienced anything. They walk through life and miss the main issues...which is: the multiple mysteries around us. Presence of God. Holy Angels who guide us. Barron wouldn't have any of it...all are imaginations of stupid uneducated people...no wonder the Church is now in such a mess.
I guess the Bishop's Bible doesn't include Jude (v. 3) or Revelation (22:18,19)
Thank you Bishop Barron for "holding down the fort" during this troubling time in the whole world. And Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger said "Histo-critical exegeis is passing away." Alleluia!
Thanks for such a beautiful video, such a deep and comprehensive survey of the different schools & literature on the historical Jesus by BB. And Brandon is such a scholarly interviewer, always asking relevant & intelligent questions, amazing!
Can you give us the spelling of the german redactor vocabulary you used?
There ARE some descent folks living in Germany yet.
Pope Benedict's Opera Omnia on Jesus is really a must read. I would strongly recommend it !
It is indeed...and his book on Christianity also great , but needs a slow digestion! The promotion of adult faith learning is so necessary -and often so poorly promoted.
Respectfully, Fr Barron takes away from Jesus the fact that He is God and walking on water to him is just showing us his power over the creation. Presenting it like just a "theologically elaborated painting" rather than a histroical FACT truly undermines the Divinity.of Christ, the God-Man. Creation is not more powerful than God, its Creator. Creation is a creature and submits to its Creator.
Deus Vult - I’ve re-listened to his answer, and get the sense he means something different by “theologically elaborated” than what some of us have received it as. I can only speak for myself: for whatever reasons when I first hear “elaborated” my mind elides it to “lies” or “embellished falsehood.” Reflecting on it, that’s too narrow, and misses Bishop Barron’s meaning. “Elaborated” simply means “worked out” or “(more) fully developed.” By “theologically elaborated” I think he means “theologically illustrated”, “theologically illuminated.” Christ walking on water does not simply show His mastery over creation; it shows He is one with God. Hence why the Gospelists intentionally allude to God’s Spirit hovering over the waters in Genesis and God passing by in Job.
Friend, my point was that it is both! I'm not denying the historicity of Jesus walking on water at all. I'm pointing out how the evangelists presented the event in a theologically elaborated way.
How to present Jesus in this era of gadgets to children?
Χριστὸς ἀνέστη!
Bishop, will u discuss the Shroud of Turin?
I hope you are right about Catholics flocking back to church; however, reminds me of the wave of patriotism after 9:11. How long did that feeling last? The feelings have to converted to a dynamic change in the person. Sure, the Catholics who were daily or weekly attenders will go back. Will new attendees emerge?
Don't be over preoccupied with such things.
Kathryn Foley pray for conversion with love and then yes new attendees will come. Truth is attractive
Greetings Bishop Barron from Manila Philippines. The daily Word on Fire masses from your chapel are a hugh blessing during this lent and Easter Season. Please keep on airing as Covid Lockdown keeps us from going to our local parish church St Jerome Parish in Ayala Alabang Metro Manila. Want to have ClubTRP Coach entrepreneurs commit to becoming Word on Fire Evangelists who support your ministry. Peg is "Examen and Entrepreneurship" Word on Fire training videos fall on the "Examen" Side. On Entrepreneurship I lean on Product Launch Formula of Jeff Walker to become a digital Entrepreneur. I become an OFW- an Online Filipino Worker. Just as I launch my ClubTRPCoach Seminar--Online and Live. Pray for this work Bishop Barron.
So what does "was in the beginning is now and ever will be" mean.
A " scattering" of valid methods
Careful. Theatrical-ism (?)
Careful. Theatrical-ism (?)
DearBishop Barron, thank you for your inspiración and instruction. I would very much appreciate it if you could commenti on a book writtrn in the 19th century by Ernest Renan, titled "vie de Jésus." I've been greatly discutere by it. Thank you, and may Our Lord and Saviour Jesuschrist continue abundantly to bless you and your invaluable ministry. AMEN.
I recently acquired the book of the same title by Albert Schweitzer. So grateful for this subject matter. BTW the book is not an easy read
Many such books are not easy to read . Have not read A S but have heard much in his praise.(0ld Irish Theology student!)
Showing the synthesizing of science & theoloogy
Very wordy, but fails to answer these questions: (1) are the Gospels accurate? (2) Have the Gospels been altered since their writing (ca. 45 AD)? (3) St. Paul says that "we see through a glass, darkly" at this time-what has been obscured? I am still puzzled.
Recently finished Brant Pitre regarding Blessed Virgin Mary. Motivated by your comments to understand more fully about Jesus’s life through Pope Benedict’s comments. Thank you for this discussion about perspective and frames of reference.
It's such a shame that Christian thinkers struggle so much to approach serious historical questions like this one (and others) with true objectivity.
I understand why. I even empathize.
But given how central the historicity of Jesus is to Christianity, i would have thought that those with the intellectuel clarity to sort through complex subjects in theology would also possess the intellectual fortitude to give the historicity question the most rigorous scientific objectivity.
Yet, that does not happen. I've yet to see it in my 30 years as a historian and scholar.
That saddens me.
And it should sadden the faithful. It shows that Christianity is in a state of collapse. It also means that people who could be models of clear thinking (theologians and priests) can no longer be that for the very people who rely on them for guidance in this world - the devout.
Such a pity
I’ll believe in Jesus as “god” when you can explain how Jesus (as YHWH) sent himself to sacrifice himself TO himself to somehow appease himself for creating man while knowing before he created man that man would “fall”....I won’t hold my breath pal
Despite some of it's intellectual figures
Indeed the CCB's of every country?
Jesus Lives ToDay. Seek Him YourSelf..ToDay. Jesus is a Living God! He is not a book or a man reading a book. Even the Samaritan woman understood who Jesus was better than you people.
Very insightful video.
Dear Bishop, I just had a passionate discussion with a priest friend about the Apostles roll by following the admonition of Jesus to go forth to whole world and spread the Good News. During this pandemic, I’m questioning the lack of courage of the worlds Bishops and Priests who are being lead to the slaughter by closing the churches, refusing Mass and Communion to God’s people and following the dictates of governments. I’m soooo disappointed that the creative minds have not moved to find a way to be bold, have the strength and courage like the Apostles of old.
NT Wright’s Simply Christian is also very good. A quicker read than the book cited in this video, but with great points on the historicity of the New Testament. He is not Catholic though, so his doctrinal points are occasionally different than Bishop Barron’s.
Also, I have never heard Bishop Barron say a movie was awful before...it must really be awful. Poorly made and poorly written.
An excellent explanation of a long-controversial issue. Bishop Baron discusses everything from Jefferson's redacted Bible (to remove all miracles) to the present day, and in particular how the modern view comes together in Pope Benedict XVI's series about Jesus. Highly recommend!
Dr Fuller you have an open mind sir
I am also proud of being a Catholic and I miss the real body and blood (holy Eucharisist) of themass/
will be glad to be a ble to return to my church
He is my Lord and Saviour, without him I are nothing. I pray people come back to the church and not ever forget the corona virus/
The instinct to delineate between Jesus of history and Christ of faith is easy to explain. In the saints or the life of the church is see Christ’s attributes. I see there his mercy, compassion, piety, his mysticism, his utter closeness to God. But I certainly don’t see a 1st century bloke in them. I don’t see a man in st. Catherine of Siena. She has God inside of her and it may be the incarnate God, but it’s not Jesus. We saw Jesus, it was a man who walked the Roman province of Judea. And I certainly don’t see this one around. I only see people who are like him. That’s why we say there is a distinction between Jesus and Christ. It may be smell of heresy, perhaps of adoptianism, but at least it makes sense and I am happy to believe in such a God
Can someone explain what he meant by "bracketing history"?
By "bracketing history" he means suspending judgement on historical questions, in this case the existence and nature of Christ, almost as if the essence of Christ's teaching can be understood independently of His existence. The term "bracketing" became prominent through the phenomenological philosophy of Edmund Husserl, in which Husserl studied the essence of our conscious awareness of ideas, things and states, without though coming to a conclusion about the existence of the objects of these ideas, etc. This method is rich insofar as it allows us to study the forms of life in general, but limited in that it gives us no path to asserting the ultimate truth or falsity of our thoughts. I'm no expert, but that's how I see it.
Fascinating to hear...mindbogli ng to me .Amazed that God has blessed so many with such religiouds inderstanding!
wow those words are so full of deep meaning in a very short dialogue about Jesus. 😊👍 this quarantine with coronavirus has keep me watching your beautiful meaningful catholic youtube videos👍😊 i learned so much..thank you 👍😊
This WOF show opened up a new world of dialog on the Historical Jesus. I was fascinated and intrigued by the depth of this study I had not encountered as a lifelong Catholic. Once again, thank you Bishop Barron.
Hello. Is it possible to interview or discuss the theologian Dr. Elizabeth Johnson's book Truly Our Sister? It could be related to this episode.
I love Jesus Christ, If only I had been born at the same time. I often reflect on how Jesus did physical work before he became an academic. I'll settle for being born at the time of Bishop Robert Baron.
I always see your shows a week or 2 after your broadcasting. But it continues to deliver the messages Jesus wants you to deliver. I praise God for you and Word on Fire. Truely instruments of God!
Always terrific conversations which challenge and inform. I have some reading to do! Thank you Word On Fire.
Not sure if it's out of topic but can Bishop Barron discuss the Nag Hammadi Scriptures? Thanks.
I enjoy listening to Bishop Barron's explanations to the plethora of questions on so many aspects of our faith, which over the years continues to affirm my own faith
Thank for this. It's enlightening .
Is it permitted to participate to a Latin Mass and receive Holy Communion, during the time our Churches are closed ?
Really nice distillation of some of the very well placed historical points the bishop has been making for years.
In search for Historical Jesus by Albert Schweitzer. I read a little on this in my early college. But was driven instead of "In search of Jesus by faith". There was a reason by Jesus or maybe Mary, none of the early Christian writers to left out 12 years of Jesus and glaringly few about Mary and Joseph family life. Anyway, looking forward to this. Been on IT for so long... need to see fresh lights on Jesus.
I don’t believe you... stand for the crusfified Christ. You are not great
I wish the good bishop would have simply said that Jesus walked on water. Bp. Barron's icon analogy leaves it open that somehow the Gospel writer "wrote Jesus large." Perhaps Bp. Barron takes a later date for the Gospels rather than the Gospels being authorized by or written by Jesus's Apostles (except for G of Luke). Certainly, Catholic Christology would not negate the possibility of such an attesting miracle.
MacClellandMan - I too wish he firmly said so. I think it’s implied in “historical core.” Thankfully his description of “theologically elaborated way” and analogy with an icon painter rule out the Gospelists writing Jesus large: by alluding to God’s Spirit over the waters at creation in Genesis, and God passing by in Job, they are illustrating that Christ is God. Elucidating the event with Scripture isn’t writing Christ large, but painting Him truthfully. Bishop Barron’s bigger point was that we have to extricate ourselves from the assumption that entrapped many on these historical Jesus quests. Step-by-step reporting of the mere event =/= the whole truth.
Hi from San Diego good hear this discussion, I appreciate bishop Barron he has done his homework & helps us dive deep into important church fathers & teachings
A book that greatly helped me clarify the historical Jesus is "The Real Jesus" by Luke Timothy Johnson.
I've heard it on good authority that certain yogis have been able to levitate and actually float across small valleys. This is documented in a particularly good yoga book from the 1950s, where the British author had been to India and heard the above on good authority. I suppose this is pretty remarkable from a western viewpoint, although you could say 'so what'!?
Historians start off with a bias. It’s about what we can know , with natural explanations. But really most we have on Jesus is the gospels. Unfortunately for some reason many historians don’t believe in the church fathers. This is huge mistake. It’s a ridiculous prejudice.
There is something I always found strange about the Gospels. Sign above Jesus head on the cross saying the king of the Jews. In the gospels Jesus doesn’t speak much about this kingship. Is it possible that Jesus was crucified for claiming he was a king?
Not just possible. Historically it simply makes the most sense.
Thank you Bishop Barron for always presenting us with wonderful information concerning our faith and it's history. It's a pleasure listening to your videos!
Thank you Mommy Mary! Thank you to God! Thank you Bishop Barron!😇😇😇👼