Mocking blow was for Arms warriors to off tank in emergency situations. Scorpid sting was actually the best sting to use in high play arena and duels vs melee. Ghostly strike was also a duelers talent.
Agreed, I was surprised to see that listed, since it's not only "sometimes useful" but very useful and avoided many wipe back then. And not only in raid, but in group instances as well. Warriors had no real multi target threat generation, and the taunt was on CD and could be resisted to boot, so especially in multi target tanking, stance dancing and using mocking blow could often save the life a party member. Only bad tanks were ignoring mocking blow. Which in a way, may mean that most tanks were indeed ignoring it, I guess :D.
@@zefyrisd69 Stance dance? Is that even a thing now? It seems the entire game has been dumbed down to the point where it basically plays itself for you, the fact that you couldn't use MB in defensive stance was what made it such a good skill - you actually had to think and manage your cooldowns when tanking #cantwaitforclassic
About aura of sanctity. It was also useful for "holy nuker" priests. Also, not only Ret did use this : there were alt specs for pallys that used this talent in combination with a holy spec, "shockadin" / "mageladin" specs during BC for instance.
More importantly Sanct. Aura was one of the more usefull since it , if skilled , increased everybodys crit chance by 3%. While less usefull for certain fights like the ressistence auras it still was more usefull then devotion aura and such. 3% Doesn't sound that much , but essentially 3% more dps for at least 15 people was nearly half a additional raid member.
Mocking blow wasn't a taunt. It FORCED enemy to attack you, including PvP, but didn't have the taunt mechanic of boosting your threat. In PvE it was used as emergency thing when your taunt missed, and it did quite often, back in BC taunt was still a spell and had 17% miss chance
Came here to comment the same. It was also very useful because it worked on mobs immune to taunt and as you mentioned didn’t go off of spell hit. It was pretty integral in the right situations. Now that taunt can’t miss? I suppose no one would miss it.
The other use was mobs that didn’t have an Aggro table like the ones in early one of the wrath dungeons. Could use to force the killer anub mobs to attack you instead of killing healer.
Ghostly strike was an extremely common pick for high level pvp rogues in vanilla and tbc. It was more energy efficient per damage and the dodge chance helped vs melee enemies. edit: Oh you think sub rogues used daggers. No, everyone was hemo or ar/prep in TBC. In vanilla there were premed specs but most people would go hemo then too.
as I've seen some other commentors post, I would rather have my entire action bars full of spells, even if I would very rarely use them, rather than have them all pruned and be left with what feels like half a class. I would rather have the old super situational spells because they added more depth to your class. just having the option to use them was nice. it was also a very good way to help differentiate between skilled players. high ranking raiders or pvp'ers could make use of those "useless" abilities in super situational times that would benefit them, even if it only happened every 1/100 encounters.
The old trees and full access is what made us warlocks gods.. esp in BC/wrath, would pull 20-30% total raid damage. Made the game fun, and negated the whole cookie cutter dbm bullshit do this to be max dps. Full access to all skills and talents, gave some real nice customization.
Scorpid sting was actually useful in wrath, since chimaera shot had a special effect based on the sting on your target, and with scorpid, it would disarm. It was very usefull in comps where the other partner had no disarm (such as ret/marks).
I think one of the demons from the hunter epic quest had to be shot with the Scorpid Sting to make it basically weak and pathetic enough for you to stand a chance.
Oh firestones how I remember thee. Amazed they actually got them past the planning phase! "Hey guys lets give a melee buff stone to a spell caster" "BRILLIANT!"
You never skipped Ghostly Strike??? WTF? It stacked with Evasion and made Evasion closer to Dodge cap. Any rogue who skipped it for PVP never broke 1250. It was 100% manditory for Sub Rogues.
Just a 9gager Not true at all. You still use it. 100% Dodge > 85% Dodge.. Plus the ability was not used to stack with Evasion ALL the time, as Evasion had a longer cooldown, so you could keep a decent upkeep of it keeping a decent bit of Dodge every once in awhile.
Just as a little note, Obviously the ability's I talk about had some kind of situational uses (except number 1 on the list). Its just a title that says "Top 10 useless abilities" is more eye catchy than "Top 10 abilities that were removed from game that were not used all that often but were kinda useful sometimes"
Except the spellstone wasn't utterly useless since you read what it did completely incorrectly while it was displayed correctly on the actual video. It was a full magic debuff purge on top of the shield. Also, soul shards were not as important back then as they are today. You could easily farm a ton of them and have them in bags.
Well again If you played Sub rogue in PVP Ghostly Strike was 100% manditory ... As Evasion at the time was only a 50% Dodge chance, In Wrath it was buffed to 80% And it stayed that way until MoP. So Yes Ghostly Strike was HELLA important for surviability as a Sub Rogue.. Even some Sword specs in PVP used Ghostly Strike. Only Mace Spec, Dagger spec, Assass, and PVE DPS Sub specs, did not take the talent.. It was for more useful than you are giving it credit.. Giving you an extra 15% Dodge at 50% making it 65% dodge, was important, and in wrath giving you that 15% at 80% making it 95% chance to dodge, was VERY VERY IMPORTANT.. as it was only 5% lower than current Evasion. Remember, things hit much harder on players in Vanilla-TBC, so that extra 15% could mean the difference in life and death from Warriors other rogues, Ferals, Enhance, Paladins, and the occasional Wing Clip, that would prevent you from even catching a hunter. So idk why you are saying it was useless or only had a small Niche.
DefiantBoris I can't find it anymore, but there was a guy that used a really fast weapon in BC with firestone that actually worked out in the matches I saw.
Maybe specifying the game would've been neat. I clicked the video with the idea that it was a top 10 useless abilities in the history of abilities ever had by anything or anyone. Making me disagree with your list.
much better description man.. if you don't know what that Sting was used for during 2.4.3 arenas as hunter, simply don't talk that way..... :) serpent sting all time on and you need to put freezing trap on that target, what will you do? :) #skill
Counterattack on hunters was really useful since it added to all the other ways hunters could get out of melee combat from a warrior. Let's say you dont have deterrence up (which gave 25% parry and dodge) and you have 10% parry chance. If you combine this with the chance of rooting a target with Wingclip (around 25% chance when specced if I remember correctly), then you have a pretty big chance of getting either a Root or a Counterattack. And then ofcourse with Deterrence which had a 5 min cd you would trigger Counterattack almost instant and most likely result in an easy win vs a warrior. On top of that you did not have to use it on the target that Parried, and thus it could help a lot when you fight off multiple melee targets.
Cower was actual insanely good in vanilla wow as tanks struggled to keep threat due to the lack of the threat generating hidden passive on tank classes (yes, tanks specs have a hidden passive or maybe all their abilites just have absurdly high threat generation ratios....one of the 2) so the ability to reduce threat was almost mandatory on dps classes
Old firestone joke from TBC: Warlock starts conjuring lesser firestone Illidan starts laughing Warlock finishes conjuring the lesser firestone Illidan dies from laughing
Scorpid Sting was a baseline ability used on absolutely every boss fight during TBC. Using any of the other stings lowered your DPS signifcantly for any hunter, and giving the boss -5% chance to hit your tanks was a huge raidwide buff. We used to have a hunter keep it up endlessly, and so did a lot of other top guilds. It was one of the best spells in game for the entire expansion, and even worked in Sunwell, where dodge/parry on tanks took a huge nerf.
An enemy approached you, you used Deterrence, parried the attacks, used counter attack, rooted the bastard, disengaged and porcupined the target from a good distance
Ghostly Strike was a great ability for soloing bosses as a rogue - when rogues had no healing abilities but could overgear agility stat for huge evasion boost. I do miss Ghostly Strike.
I used to like counter attack, it was a good counter to melee after popping deterrence - you would always end up parrying when you used it so it was a nice way to root them and get distance again
counter attack was used when a rogue gets on top of you. you pop deterence which increases your parry by 50% and counter attack to get a guaranteed root. its needed for pvp.
Mocking Blow existed because in vanilla wow Blizzard's idea was that arms or fury warriors would be 'main assists' in instances/raids and be in charge of grabbing extra mobs the tank might miss since they could withstand some hits being plate rather than cloth (and tanks had much less aoe aggro). That's why it was a non defensive stance ability.
The first time I quit WoW when I was a noob (at the initial launch of vanilla) was when I rolled a warlock, found out I could buy the sword skill and went with it, lol.
I dislike the fact that they removed so many spells because "they were situational". As a pvper, that was the shit that gave it flavor and it separated good players from bad players. Knowing when to stancedance was great. I'd rather have that back than the "smash 5buttons 'till someone dies" we have now (and have had for a while). #1 no argument there, it was dumb. #2 useful in pvp back when you could taunt enemy pets -> taunt pet -> eat trap/avoid sheep etc #3 it was good in PvP as far as I know, wasn't it used pretty often at one point? #4 yeah it was bad #5 good for pvp, dispell protection #6 which aura would you use in a dps group? #7 can't comment on this one #8 could be used for disarm at one point, 3% hit reduce is small? Since when? #9 lacerate suuucked #10 it was a "here, have it because why not" #11 jesus christ, threat reduction was a big deal #12 correction, they were useful for pvp (before edit I agreed with spellstone sucking)
Graenolf I played a mage and a paladin back in Vanilla, and my paladin had seals that cost mana, lasted thirty seconds, and would disappear when I used Judgement (yes, Judgment was spelled incorrectly until Cataclysm). If I could put up with 60 levels of that, I could put up with nearly anything. I still don't find rogues to be a class I enjoy playing.
Vanilla wow(and probably the same goes for tbc): if player is lvl 60 then Taunt had a high Resist chance vs boss / lvl 63 mobs (16% chance) -> Use mocking blow (which did not have a Resist Chance, instead it could only Miss and thus it had a higher chance to not be avoided) Other then that you could use taunt and thereafter use mocking blow and thereafter taunt would be off cooldown again. So at the time it was a really useful ability Later on in further expansions threat just got redundant to care about and that's why they removed mocking blow (I assume)
Mocking blow was the taunt for tanking when you're in Battle stance, in vanilla you had to stance dance to properly tank. Most AOE abilities were not in battle stance. Moving away from stance dance, was the only reason why that ability became pointless. Tanking was more fun back then.
Mocking Blow in Vanilla is the least useless of all of the abilities on this list. In Vanilla taunt was melee range and could be resisted by mobs and because of this, Mocking Blow was primarily used as a backup taunt in case any of those scenarios occurred. And believe me, they happened more often than you think... ;-;
if i remember correctly, back in vanilla Survival hunters were the only hunters with deterrence, which increased your parry by 60%, and they could still attack while deterrence was up. So this helped trigger counterattack.
I'm pretty confident at the time Counterattack was in the game for Survival hunters, Deterrence still gave you 25% dodge and parry. Not that it makes it any more useful, but at least that was 35% chance to parry, 40% if you had the first tier talent (y tho).
wow, i seem to be the only hunter having used counterattack regularly (in pvp) then ... yes, you didn't parry that often, but WHEN you did, 5 sec root against a rogue or warrior could turn the fight! also, i even used scorpid sting. against warriors, it was my preferred sting. since they had so much hp, the serpent sting wasn't doing much anyway and you also didn't want them to have a dot because of freezing trap.
Ikr! Stings were versatile depending on the fight. I used to always use scorpid sting during 1v1 pvp encounters with melee classes. Serpent sting broke CC like scatter shot and ice trap so I never bothered with it... Unless I was just so far I knew they couldn't catch up to me lol
Neat fact, tanks in vanilla would often stance dance back and forth between battle and def, and occassionally with some builds berserker. And taunt all the way up to wrath was also a melee range only ability on a 10 sec timer(8 sec with talents) Mocking blow was useful when you had to charge in battle stance mocking blow a mob, switch to defensive and taunt the second mob then go into your normal sunder armor heroic strike rotation while tabbing between the two mobs.
Mocking blow wasn't a taunt---it was a fixate ability. A subtle distinction, but unlike a taunt---mocking blow didn't put you on top of the threat meter. It merely forced the mob to attack for the duration of the spell and would then return to whoever was top on threat. Sanctity Aura was amazing for smite priests---I guess you forgot about those? Yes, they did exist. Ghostly Strike synergised with Setup and allowed rogues to reach the dodge cap with evasion.
Mocking blow was a ridiculous PVP mechanic. You could use it on pets to break crowd control. Taunt also used to miss and it caused threat depending on your current threat level, so it was a good aggro snatch when taking other tanks mobs.
My warlock still has a Grand Firestone in her inventory to this day. Apparently having one in your bags when the spell was removed just converted it into a basic white item with no use. Surprisingly this thing has survived multiple server and race/faction changes. At this point I consider it a lucky charm.
A lot of these things are like a RIP nostalgia trip for me. I miss all the old 'useless but sometimes useful abilities' except that pointless paladin judgement that stopped them running away...
remember when boomkin form gave u mana on melee hits? lmao.. the sad thing is in dungeons/pvp I've actually had to resort to doing this, but the regen was still so shitty you'd die before being able to do anything. at least back then lifebloom was practically free so you'd get enough for a lifebloom after a couple hits iirc
I understand why it would be confusing for new players to have so many spells clogging up your spellbook, but I'll take as many abilities as they want to give me just to mess around with.
you know what i miss? windfury totem giving everyone in my team windfury on their weapons. that was awesome such a powerfull buff for anyone going melee
For Sword/Mace builds, sure. But for daggers Deadly/Instant was still better since auto attacks were such a small portion of your total DPS, poisons were a much larger percentage of total DPS and the old interaction of Deadly/Instant poisons caused it to outperform WF when using dagger builds.
I understand why you included the Priest ability Shadow Word: Insanity, but honestly I think those are the kind of spells that made WoW fun. Those kinds of spells made the game more interactive and gave you some time to really consider. Even Ghostly Strike, the Rogue ability, did something similar. You're right, it USUALLY wasn't used, but I definitely miss it; or rather I miss having that choice and that 1 OR 1 scenarios where it did matter I also miss.
Mocking Blow: Was useful when Taunt was resisted, or if you lacked talents for maintaining rage after stance dance/ charging. Good situational use, good for PvP. Detect Magic: Useful PvE ability in Vanilla for bosses that buffed themselves and required dispelling. Useful for PvP at times. Sanctity Aura: Designed to be used in conjunction for the original plan for Discipline Priests (Melee Tank/DPS holy damage). Wasn't a massive fan of this list, mainly due to the fact its supports the idea of removing all the varied options for abilities that made Vanilla and TBC entertaining games to play. The ability crunch removed a lot of these situational style abilities, which made the game less skill based, and more face roll and predictable.
Spellstones were actually nice in PVP in vanilla , since you can swap weapons and off-hands in combat. Have it equipped then after use for DoT removal and spell shield swap your normal off-hand in.
Mocking blow was very useful in vanilla. If taunt misses, you can't wait for the cool down to come back up, you need to taunt immediately before you wipe. Waiting a couple more seconds on the taunt is easily a wipe down n fights like 4 horsemen or BWL drakes.
In early WoW, hunters, enh shammies, and non-prot warriors were supposed to be off-tanks. This made more sense when raids were also going to be designed around 40 people, rather than 10/25. Blizz later simplified the game into 3 distinct roles: tank, dmg, and heals. Mocking Blow was a relic of that time period, which explains why it was not used in defensive stance. There was actually a lot of annoying restrictions based on stance back in vanilla.
Detect magic was very useful. It makes the boss target you, and it makes players target you if they don't already have a target, so there is a higher chance to get a noob player attack you in a neutral town and get killed by guards.
I loved mocking blow in wotlk as a tank. It was perfect for start of bossfight when you had to maintain aggro from dps. Also it was forced to attack not a taunt so it made the enemy attack you for 6seconds at the start even if you lost the aggro.
^This, I couldn't believe Mocking Blow was on this list. The only warriors who thought MB was useless were terrible tanks. Being able to FORCE a boss to face any direction you wanted for 6 seconds was hugely useful.
"Then they were removed in Mists 'cause they were still kind of dumb" - that was a brilliant way to end this video. Well done, earned a sub from me. (y)
Just another little note, i was clickbaited on this Vid because I'm a Dota 2 Player and the first thing I noticed was "USLESS" on the introduction at 0:02 - xoxo....
mocking blow had some uses, they removed it because aggro was no longer an issue. If i remember correctly, mocking blow worked on mobs that were immune to taunt, that could ctually be very important in a game were aggro management is a thing and bosses are taunt immune. Also counterattack was a very very very useful attack in vanilla pvp vs. all melee classes, since you had a defensive cd giving you +25% parry chance. Every survival pvp hunter that was any good would constantly use this on my warrior and since they could already kite like crazy and chain trap, it basically made it so you could only win vs them if you instagib them with some hgh crits.
I think you didn't play an early druid. Cower was used very often. Similar to the one the rogues had (which it mimics). They didn't remove threat reduction abilities until threat was no longer an issue.
Well i remember mocking blow to be quite helpful, on fights like Nalorak(old ZA), Brutallus(swp), ... was taunting between tanks crucial, if you missed normal taunt(also mele range, wotlk made taunts ranged) you couldnt taunt next 8 secs, but that was too long due to mechanics. In Tbc it really was usefull and that it was hard to use due to stance dancing and long cd it just made more class specific and you couldnt spam it.
Been thinkin of startin WoW again, watchin these kinda vids etc. Tho I've finally reached my decision not to, and go to private servers if I want to play WoW. What made me do this decision?? ~ 8:00 - 8:05 "When hunters WERE a ranged class"
Scorpid Sting was absolutely vital in raids. You would designate a hunter for Scorpid Sting and another hunter for Viper Sting on literally every boss.
To be fair, when I first started playing a warlock I thought it was supposed to be a melee/spell hybrid which makes a lot of sense in my head. Kinda like a dk but more range oriented I guess. I wish that's how it was T^T would be so cool
disengage original version was actually quite good for leveling. Since most pets didn't have aoe damage if you pulled more than 1 mob and u didnt attack the second you could use the spell to make the mob instantly attack your pet
I was thinking this to. Priests, both Holy and Disc deal holy damage. Though Holy deals purely holy damage and Disc is a mix of holy, shadow, and I think back then they had fire damage to? Even Shadow Priests kicked out a holy spell now and then. So Sanc Aura did two classes.
The Sancity aura was great if you had a priest in the game. But it was most useful on special private servers that had bigger mana regen etc. So priest did 10% + bonus from talent damage. Also if you used one of the paladin's seal, that added a chance to do holy damage on hit, it increased the damage of it.
Glimpse of Instinct and Lacerate didn't even last until BWL Mocking Blow was very good, but only a fraction of the playerbase knew what to do with it. Taunt could Miss AND be Resisted, so it was common to see tanks use Challenging Shout and Mocking Blow to recover Ghostly Strike was great for solo play and decent in PvP. SS costed MORE (50 in vanilla to 45 in Wrath) and dealt way less damage. Did you even play pre Wrath?
Mocking blow was useful for tanks when taunt was resisted, and stance swapping didn't have many consequences since you could keep up to 25 rage with talents
wait. i remember mocking blow. and back then warriors could switch between stances pretty easily if i remember right (i made a macro to go from arms to prot and put a 1-h and shield on to pick up tank just in case something went bad) so it wasnt really useless. and you remember how hard threat was to maintain. idk i didnt hit max level in vanilla. just BC and only for a lil while before wrath dropped. i was a casual. but that ability seems pretty useful.
I miss when shamans had water breathing. You didn't need it very often, but it was a nice quality of life ability and fit the class fantasy really well. I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out why warlocks got to keep it.
I actually remember using Cower as a feral druid during the first Cata tier. Tanking and healing during that tier had completely different styles. I would commonly use Cower off cooldown during the beginning of a boss encounter to avoid pulling aggro (though I would commonly pull aggro anyways).
7:28 Threat reduction is legit as fuck. If you for some reason played a kitty dps, Cower is somewhat useful on some fights. Void Reaver dumps threat on his current target. Hydross has constant threat resets so any type of reduction = a lot of DPS. The issue is that you as a cat are not likely to dish out enough damage for your threat to be relevant.
It was actually pretty fun being a subtank as a rogue with ghostly strike back then with high evasion. I did slightly less dmg for a more safety net utility. I even saved some dungeon groups from a wipe occasionally (thanks to tank not getting out of the "fire"). ;D
Unsure if anyone's actually posted this > Mocking blow was one of the best spells to use as an arms warrior in PvP. It did little damage but was capable of causing a critical hit causing you to enrage and proc deep wounds. Scorpid sting was also used all the time in PvP.. it forced people to use 6% hit rating cap.
And unlike with serpent sting you could still use freezing trap etc. Mocking Blow was awesome against hunters too, you see hunter's trap animation and tab target pet quickly for Mocking Blow so it will free you from CC.
Scorpid stings first iteration with the agi/str reduction was pretty good on stronger mobs although I have to agree that it was rarely used. Disengage was also pretty good because often when you solo quested and you hit a crit or generated more threat the mobs would go straight for you and the feign death ability costed more mana for essentially the same thing, also it was useful in bad dungeon pulls so that you could preserve your feign death for an eventual wipe.
Sanctity aura was useful for when you have multiple paladins. It increased your threat gen, which along with aoe tanking was protection paladins thing in tbc
I think some of these abilities, especially those that came from vanilla make more sense when you think about how big of a pain in the ass it was to level. I was absolutely in melee range when I was leveling hunters in Vanilla/BC, used counter attack all the time. I can even remember times where I just used melee attackss because I didn't want to wander back to town to buy arrows.
Are you kidding? Counterstrike was used quite a bit! At least in PvP it did. I ran my Surv Hunter through WSG SO MUCH, and I was able to use CS so many times. I honestly think it was bugged and it procced from dodges too, because it seemed to proc pretty often. Also, Cower was kind of re-worked into Hunter Pets, they use it now to reduce damage.
Hunter: *attacks*
Shaman: Anyway, here's Windwall totem
the fire stone also helped you evolve your eevee into a flareon
Mocking blow was for Arms warriors to off tank in emergency situations.
Scorpid sting was actually the best sting to use in high play arena and duels vs melee.
Ghostly strike was also a duelers talent.
Several of these skills were very useful. For example, Mocking blow was a raid saver in vanilla since taunt actually could be resisted.
Agreed, I was surprised to see that listed, since it's not only "sometimes useful" but very useful and avoided many wipe back then. And not only in raid, but in group instances as well. Warriors had no real multi target threat generation, and the taunt was on CD and could be resisted to boot, so especially in multi target tanking, stance dancing and using mocking blow could often save the life a party member. Only bad tanks were ignoring mocking blow. Which in a way, may mean that most tanks were indeed ignoring it, I guess :D.
@@zefyrisd69 Stance dance? Is that even a thing now? It seems the entire game has been dumbed down to the point where it basically plays itself for you, the fact that you couldn't use MB in defensive stance was what made it such a good skill - you actually had to think and manage your cooldowns when tanking #cantwaitforclassic
@@moomoo924 stance dance no longer exists in retail , yup.
Zefyris D before mocking blow you used the aoe taunt back then
@@moomoo924 Yeah man, those 20 minute raid clears. CLASSIC SO HARD.
About aura of sanctity. It was also useful for "holy nuker" priests. Also, not only Ret did use this : there were alt specs for pallys that used this talent in combination with a holy spec, "shockadin" / "mageladin" specs during BC for instance.
He never said rets only used it and most priests werent holy in pvp.
And I never said he said that. Just being informative, because he doesn't seem to know about these specs, which were pretty rare.
"not only Ret did use this" makes it seem like you're suggesting he said only rets.
+NetherPrime I didn't mean to, he speaks about Ret but not these other weird specs, that's all.
More importantly Sanct. Aura was one of the more usefull since it , if skilled , increased everybodys crit chance by 3%. While less usefull for certain fights like the ressistence auras it still was more usefull then devotion aura and such.
3% Doesn't sound that much , but essentially 3% more dps for at least 15 people was nearly half a additional raid member.
Mocking blow wasn't a taunt. It FORCED enemy to attack you, including PvP, but didn't have the taunt mechanic of boosting your threat. In PvE it was used as emergency thing when your taunt missed, and it did quite often, back in BC taunt was still a spell and had 17% miss chance
I was thinking of commenting about how I happened to have a taunt resisted, my sunder got parried and my mocking blow missed..
Came here to comment the same. It was also very useful because it worked on mobs immune to taunt and as you mentioned didn’t go off of spell hit. It was pretty integral in the right situations. Now that taunt can’t miss? I suppose no one would miss it.
Exactly what I was going to post.
The other use was mobs that didn’t have an Aggro table like the ones in early one of the wrath dungeons. Could use to force the killer anub mobs to attack you instead of killing healer.
Yeah, use less isn't what I'd call mocking blow. And actual WoW players really do miss it.
Ghostly strike was an extremely common pick for high level pvp rogues in vanilla and tbc. It was more energy efficient per damage and the dodge chance helped vs melee enemies.
edit: Oh you think sub rogues used daggers. No, everyone was hemo or ar/prep in TBC. In vanilla there were premed specs but most people would go hemo then too.
as I've seen some other commentors post, I would rather have my entire action bars full of spells, even if I would very rarely use them, rather than have them all pruned and be left with what feels like half a class.
I would rather have the old super situational spells because they added more depth to your class. just having the option to use them was nice. it was also a very good way to help differentiate between skilled players. high ranking raiders or pvp'ers could make use of those "useless" abilities in super situational times that would benefit them, even if it only happened every 1/100 encounters.
Masterpiece
The old trees and full access is what made us warlocks gods.. esp in BC/wrath, would pull 20-30% total raid damage. Made the game fun, and negated the whole cookie cutter dbm bullshit do this to be max dps. Full access to all skills and talents, gave some real nice customization.
Scorpid sting was actually useful in wrath, since chimaera shot had a special effect based on the sting on your target, and with scorpid, it would disarm. It was very usefull in comps where the other partner had no disarm (such as ret/marks).
Yep, I'm pretty sure I have a little note mentioning that in the video, I just dont say it out loud.
You also used it if you wanted to trap a mob or player that had Viper or Serpent Sting up, since both would break traps
I think one of the demons from the hunter epic quest had to be shot with the Scorpid Sting to make it basically weak and pathetic enough for you to stand a chance.
Oh firestones how I remember thee. Amazed they actually got them past the planning phase!
"Hey guys lets give a melee buff stone to a spell caster"
"BRILLIANT!"
You never skipped Ghostly Strike??? WTF? It stacked with Evasion and made Evasion closer to Dodge cap. Any rogue who skipped it for PVP never broke 1250. It was 100% manditory for Sub Rogues.
My thoughts exactly
he also said that Scorpid sting is usless
This is complete bullshit
There is an anotation mentioning Scorpid Stings use in combo with chimera shot.
You actually skip it at the end of the end of the expansion, cause you already had more than 85% dodge with evasion
Just a 9gager Not true at all. You still use it. 100% Dodge > 85% Dodge.. Plus the ability was not used to stack with Evasion ALL the time, as Evasion had a longer cooldown, so you could keep a decent upkeep of it keeping a decent bit of Dodge every once in awhile.
I still have a Spellstone and Firestone in my bank! XD
Impressive friend, that's some hardcore dedication right there ;)
Lol either that or just hording! XD
I thought they disappear once you log out. So... how?
Nope I they stay in the inventory and are now kicking about in my bank as dud items that don't do anything.
I have mine too! And my infernal stone! >.> I don't have a problem. don't look at me that way.
Just as a little note, Obviously the ability's I talk about had some kind of situational uses (except number 1 on the list). Its just a title that says "Top 10 useless abilities" is more eye catchy than "Top 10 abilities that were removed from game that were not used all that often but were kinda useful sometimes"
Except the spellstone wasn't utterly useless since you read what it did completely incorrectly while it was displayed correctly on the actual video. It was a full magic debuff purge on top of the shield.
Also, soul shards were not as important back then as they are today. You could easily farm a ton of them and have them in bags.
Well again If you played Sub rogue in PVP Ghostly Strike was 100% manditory ... As Evasion at the time was only a 50% Dodge chance, In Wrath it was buffed to 80% And it stayed that way until MoP. So Yes Ghostly Strike was HELLA important for surviability as a Sub Rogue.. Even some Sword specs in PVP used Ghostly Strike. Only Mace Spec, Dagger spec, Assass, and PVE DPS Sub specs, did not take the talent.. It was for more useful than you are giving it credit.. Giving you an extra 15% Dodge at 50% making it 65% dodge, was important, and in wrath giving you that 15% at 80% making it 95% chance to dodge, was VERY VERY IMPORTANT.. as it was only 5% lower than current Evasion. Remember, things hit much harder on players in Vanilla-TBC, so that extra 15% could mean the difference in life and death from Warriors other rogues, Ferals, Enhance, Paladins, and the occasional Wing Clip, that would prevent you from even catching a hunter. So idk why you are saying it was useless or only had a small Niche.
DefiantBoris I can't find it anymore, but there was a guy that used a really fast weapon in BC with firestone that actually worked out in the matches I saw.
Maybe specifying the game would've been neat. I clicked the video with the idea that it was a top 10 useless abilities in the history of abilities ever had by anything or anyone. Making me disagree with your list.
much better description man.. if you don't know what that Sting was used for during 2.4.3 arenas as hunter, simply don't talk that way..... :) serpent sting all time on and you need to put freezing trap on that target, what will you do? :) #skill
Also Scorpid Sting reduced warrior damage by a lot in vanilla.
Mocking Blow was actually really important because if taunt was resisted warriors could mocking blow to taunt to build up more threat
Counterattack on hunters was really useful since it added to all the other ways hunters could get out of melee combat from a warrior.
Let's say you dont have deterrence up (which gave 25% parry and dodge) and you have 10% parry chance. If you combine this with the chance of rooting a target with Wingclip (around 25% chance when specced if I remember correctly), then you have a pretty big chance of getting either a Root or a Counterattack.
And then ofcourse with Deterrence which had a 5 min cd you would trigger Counterattack almost instant and most likely result in an easy win vs a warrior.
On top of that you did not have to use it on the target that Parried, and thus it could help a lot when you fight off
multiple melee targets.
Cower was actual insanely good in vanilla wow as tanks struggled to keep threat due to the lack of the threat generating hidden passive on tank classes (yes, tanks specs have a hidden passive or maybe all their abilites just have absurdly high threat generation ratios....one of the 2) so the ability to reduce threat was almost mandatory on dps classes
I actually really liked Ghostly Strike
Old firestone joke from TBC:
Warlock starts conjuring lesser firestone
Illidan starts laughing
Warlock finishes conjuring the lesser firestone
Illidan dies from laughing
What's the addon @ 3:23 that shows the buffs over the character's head? The new patch killed how good tidy plates worked :|
Scorpid Sting was a baseline ability used on absolutely every boss fight during TBC. Using any of the other stings lowered your DPS signifcantly for any hunter, and giving the boss -5% chance to hit your tanks was a huge raidwide buff. We used to have a hunter keep it up endlessly, and so did a lot of other top guilds.
It was one of the best spells in game for the entire expansion, and even worked in Sunwell, where dodge/parry on tanks took a huge nerf.
An enemy approached you, you used Deterrence, parried the attacks, used counter attack, rooted the bastard, disengaged and porcupined the target from a good distance
Ghostly Strike was a great ability for soloing bosses as a rogue - when rogues had no healing abilities but could overgear agility stat for huge evasion boost.
I do miss Ghostly Strike.
As a vanilla hunter, Counterattack was actually really useful against melee classes in PvP. I'd use against Rogue and Warriors pretty often.
I used to like counter attack, it was a good counter to melee after popping deterrence - you would always end up parrying when you used it so it was a nice way to root them and get distance again
counter attack was used when a rogue gets on top of you. you pop deterence which increases your parry by 50% and counter attack to get a guaranteed root. its needed for pvp.
Sanctity Aura: What, you don't run a 5 paladin party? I don't know what you are doing with your life...
You should do 10 Useless Removed Battle Pets No One Will Miss.
ohgod the real doron
wanna play with ma doron? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Or you could simply do "10 useless features no one will miss" and put battle pets there.
LUL
Blizz gonna need some ice after that burn
I would not be upset at all if Legion removed Battle Pets but kept the cosmetic pets. I like collecting, but it's too much work.
***** Oh, I know. It's not content that appeals to me, but I understand that it is very popular.
Ahh Detect Magic. Back when it was used by Mages and Mind Soothe was used by Priests to mark targets for CC before we had raid markers.
Mocking Blow existed because in vanilla wow Blizzard's idea was that arms or fury warriors would be 'main assists' in instances/raids and be in charge of grabbing extra mobs the tank might miss since they could withstand some hits being plate rather than cloth (and tanks had much less aoe aggro). That's why it was a non defensive stance ability.
@hirumaredx Can you tell me the names of the backround music you put in the video ? especially the one in 7:00. Thx :)
I used mocking blow. L2stance dance.
I'm pretty sure we used scorpid sting in raids, but then again I didn't play a hunter.
Counterattack saved my ass many times in pvp. The fact that it snared alone made it good.
The first time I quit WoW when I was a noob (at the initial launch of vanilla) was when I rolled a warlock, found out I could buy the sword skill and went with it, lol.
I dislike the fact that they removed so many spells because "they were situational". As a pvper, that was the shit that gave it flavor and it separated good players from bad players. Knowing when to stancedance was great. I'd rather have that back than the "smash 5buttons 'till someone dies" we have now (and have had for a while).
#1 no argument there, it was dumb.
#2 useful in pvp back when you could taunt enemy pets -> taunt pet -> eat trap/avoid sheep etc
#3 it was good in PvP as far as I know, wasn't it used pretty often at one point?
#4 yeah it was bad
#5 good for pvp, dispell protection
#6 which aura would you use in a dps group?
#7 can't comment on this one
#8 could be used for disarm at one point, 3% hit reduce is small? Since when?
#9 lacerate suuucked
#10 it was a "here, have it because why not"
#11 jesus christ, threat reduction was a big deal
#12 correction, they were useful for pvp (before edit I agreed with spellstone sucking)
It's crazy how one dreadful ability can stop you from playing an entire class.
Oh? I've been turned off of classes due to not finding them fun, but I've never been driven away by a single ability.
DrPluton
Which in particular? I guess rogues used to upset me because I always had to have poison applied. Maybe that was too picky.
Graenolf I played a mage and a paladin back in Vanilla, and my paladin had seals that cost mana, lasted thirty seconds, and would disappear when I used Judgement (yes, Judgment was spelled incorrectly until Cataclysm). If I could put up with 60 levels of that, I could put up with nearly anything. I still don't find rogues to be a class I enjoy playing.
There were addons for that.
What? was it spelled Judgment until cata?
"one of the many weird druid buff totems"
you failed me, father
Vanilla wow(and probably the same goes for tbc): if player is lvl 60 then Taunt had a high Resist chance vs boss / lvl 63 mobs (16% chance) ->
Use mocking blow (which did not have a Resist Chance, instead it could only Miss and thus it had a higher chance to not be avoided)
Other then that you could use taunt and thereafter use mocking blow and thereafter taunt would be off cooldown again.
So at the time it was a really useful ability
Later on in further expansions threat just got redundant to care about and that's why they removed mocking blow (I assume)
If windwall totem actually created an impassable wall then that would be cool
Actually it was one of the OP things why Shamans where so op in PvP.
+Mr.Vojtik shamans are still amazing lol
lil gay mudge They are, but they were much better. Ah man old totems, old buffs, old Windfury with old on hit weapons. Good old times.
Not gonna argue w that
yasuo plz
Mocking blow was the taunt for tanking when you're in Battle stance, in vanilla you had to stance dance to properly tank. Most AOE abilities were not in battle stance. Moving away from stance dance, was the only reason why that ability became pointless. Tanking was more fun back then.
Name of the song starting from 3:09? (Detect Magic ability)
Mocking Blow in Vanilla is the least useless of all of the abilities on this list. In Vanilla taunt was melee range and could be resisted by mobs and because of this, Mocking Blow was primarily used as a backup taunt in case any of those scenarios occurred. And believe me, they happened more often than you think... ;-;
Insanity seems similar to how Conflagrate used to work in TBC, which was far more interesting than how it works today.
The hunters also had Misdirection
if i remember correctly, back in vanilla Survival hunters were the only hunters with deterrence, which increased your parry by 60%, and they could still attack while deterrence was up. So this helped trigger counterattack.
I'm pretty confident at the time Counterattack was in the game for Survival hunters, Deterrence still gave you 25% dodge and parry. Not that it makes it any more useful, but at least that was 35% chance to parry, 40% if you had the first tier talent (y tho).
wow, i seem to be the only hunter having used counterattack regularly (in pvp) then ... yes, you didn't parry that often, but WHEN you did, 5 sec root against a rogue or warrior could turn the fight!
also, i even used scorpid sting. against warriors, it was my preferred sting. since they had so much hp, the serpent sting wasn't doing much anyway and you also didn't want them to have a dot because of freezing trap.
Ikr! Stings were versatile depending on the fight. I used to always use scorpid sting during 1v1 pvp encounters with melee classes. Serpent sting broke CC like scatter shot and ice trap so I never bothered with it... Unless I was just so far I knew they couldn't catch up to me lol
Yeah, I absolutely killed people with counterattack as a survival hunter in TBC.
As a PvP mage I'd use detect magic to avoid sheep being dispelled, especially useful against locks with felhunters.
Neat fact, tanks in vanilla would often stance dance back and forth between battle and def, and occassionally with some builds berserker. And taunt all the way up to wrath was also a melee range only ability on a 10 sec timer(8 sec with talents) Mocking blow was useful when you had to charge in battle stance mocking blow a mob, switch to defensive and taunt the second mob then go into your normal sunder armor heroic strike rotation while tabbing between the two mobs.
Always enjoy your videos hirumaredx! :D
Mocking blow wasn't a taunt---it was a fixate ability.
A subtle distinction, but unlike a taunt---mocking blow didn't put you on top of the threat meter. It merely forced the mob to attack for the duration of the spell and would then return to whoever was top on threat.
Sanctity Aura was amazing for smite priests---I guess you forgot about those? Yes, they did exist.
Ghostly Strike synergised with Setup and allowed rogues to reach the dodge cap with evasion.
Mocking blow was a ridiculous PVP mechanic. You could use it on pets to break crowd control. Taunt also used to miss and it caused threat depending on your current threat level, so it was a good aggro snatch when taking other tanks mobs.
I always though ghostly strike was a nice abbilty I used it all the time when ever I could since it helped in solo fights quil
My warlock still has a Grand Firestone in her inventory to this day. Apparently having one in your bags when the spell was removed just converted it into a basic white item with no use. Surprisingly this thing has survived multiple server and race/faction changes. At this point I consider it a lucky charm.
Top 10 *USLESS* removed abillities no one will miss. @0:04 I just noticed after 2 years.
One thing worth mentioning about Scorpid Sting is that it was able to disarm in conjunction with Chimaera Shot in WotLK
“And they were removed in mists because they were kinda dumb” the end.
Now that’s closure!
A lot of these things are like a RIP nostalgia trip for me. I miss all the old 'useless but sometimes useful abilities' except that pointless paladin judgement that stopped them running away...
Re Santity Aura - Priests also do holy damage
remember when boomkin form gave u mana on melee hits? lmao.. the sad thing is in dungeons/pvp I've actually had to resort to doing this, but the regen was still so shitty you'd die before being able to do anything. at least back then lifebloom was practically free so you'd get enough for a lifebloom after a couple hits iirc
Ghostly strike was used by all the good sub rogues, especially vs other rogues + warriors. Rogue vs Rogue that 15 % is extremely important
I understand why it would be confusing for new players to have so many spells clogging up your spellbook, but I'll take as many abilities as they want to give me just to mess around with.
you know what i miss? windfury totem giving everyone in my team windfury on their weapons. that was awesome such a powerfull buff for anyone going melee
Except for rogues because it didn't stack with poisons :(
Still stronger than any poison. You'd just only roll with one poison then.
Sput Nik a that is correct, rogues would use instant poison on offhand weapons and no poison on main hand so they can benefit from windfury.
For Sword/Mace builds, sure. But for daggers Deadly/Instant was still better since auto attacks were such a small portion of your total DPS, poisons were a much larger percentage of total DPS and the old interaction of Deadly/Instant poisons caused it to outperform WF when using dagger builds.
I understand why you included the Priest ability Shadow Word: Insanity, but honestly I think those are the kind of spells that made WoW fun. Those kinds of spells made the game more interactive and gave you some time to really consider. Even Ghostly Strike, the Rogue ability, did something similar. You're right, it USUALLY wasn't used, but I definitely miss it; or rather I miss having that choice and that 1 OR 1 scenarios where it did matter I also miss.
Oh, there's the video I suggested on the stream some time ago.
Remember? Back when you did the BRF mythic run with your priest?
Scorpid sting was great vs melee, you did not want to use serpent string in pvp because the dot would break your various CC effects.
Mocking Blow: Was useful when Taunt was resisted, or if you lacked talents for maintaining rage after stance dance/ charging. Good situational use, good for PvP.
Detect Magic: Useful PvE ability in Vanilla for bosses that buffed themselves and required dispelling. Useful for PvP at times.
Sanctity Aura: Designed to be used in conjunction for the original plan for Discipline Priests (Melee Tank/DPS holy damage).
Wasn't a massive fan of this list, mainly due to the fact its supports the idea of removing all the varied options for abilities that made Vanilla and TBC entertaining games to play. The ability crunch removed a lot of these situational style abilities, which made the game less skill based, and more face roll and predictable.
Spellstones were actually nice in PVP in vanilla , since you can swap weapons and off-hands in combat. Have it equipped then after use for DoT removal and spell shield swap your normal off-hand in.
Mocking blow was very useful in vanilla. If taunt misses, you can't wait for the cool down to come back up, you need to taunt immediately before you wipe. Waiting a couple more seconds on the taunt is easily a wipe down n fights like 4 horsemen or BWL drakes.
Nandor Nagyilles Yeah but you had to change from defensive stance and if i remember corectlly you lost all your rage when you did that
Nandor Nagyilles taunt missing sounds so stupid
On the shadow Word Insanity part, whats the addon with the little timer thing where the spells move along as they come off cd?
In early WoW, hunters, enh shammies, and non-prot warriors were supposed to be off-tanks. This made more sense when raids were also going to be designed around 40 people, rather than 10/25. Blizz later simplified the game into 3 distinct roles: tank, dmg, and heals. Mocking Blow was a relic of that time period, which explains why it was not used in defensive stance. There was actually a lot of annoying restrictions based on stance back in vanilla.
Mocking blow: when you quest together with a clothie and you don't need to switch to def stance but the clothie critted and took the aggro
Detect magic was very useful. It makes the boss target you, and it makes players target you if they don't already have a target, so there is a higher chance to get a noob player attack you in a neutral town and get killed by guards.
I loved mocking blow in wotlk as a tank. It was perfect for start of bossfight when you had to maintain aggro from dps. Also it was forced to attack not a taunt so it made the enemy attack you for 6seconds at the start even if you lost the aggro.
^This, I couldn't believe Mocking Blow was on this list. The only warriors who thought MB was useless were terrible tanks. Being able to FORCE a boss to face any direction you wanted for 6 seconds was hugely useful.
"Then they were removed in Mists 'cause they were still kind of dumb" - that was a brilliant way to end this video. Well done, earned a sub from me. (y)
Just another little note, i was clickbaited on this Vid because I'm a Dota 2 Player and the first thing I noticed was "USLESS" on the introduction at 0:02 - xoxo....
mocking blow had some uses, they removed it because aggro was no longer an issue. If i remember correctly, mocking blow worked on mobs that were immune to taunt, that could ctually be very important in a game were aggro management is a thing and bosses are taunt immune.
Also counterattack was a very very very useful attack in vanilla pvp vs. all melee classes, since you had a defensive cd giving you +25% parry chance. Every survival pvp hunter that was any good would constantly use this on my warrior and since they could already kite like crazy and chain trap, it basically made it so you could only win vs them if you instagib them with some hgh crits.
Still have a Grand Firestone on my lock, doesn't nothing, but, eh, keeping it in the bank for Nostalgia
I think you didn't play an early druid. Cower was used very often. Similar to the one the rogues had (which it mimics). They didn't remove threat reduction abilities until threat was no longer an issue.
I think that "Tracking hidden" was pretty useful ability
Well i remember mocking blow to be quite helpful, on fights like Nalorak(old ZA), Brutallus(swp), ... was taunting between tanks crucial, if you missed normal taunt(also mele range, wotlk made taunts ranged) you couldnt taunt next 8 secs, but that was too long due to mechanics. In Tbc it really was usefull and that it was hard to use due to stance dancing and long cd it just made more class specific and you couldnt spam it.
Been thinkin of startin WoW again, watchin these kinda vids etc. Tho I've finally reached my decision not to, and go to private servers if I want to play WoW. What made me do this decision?? ~ 8:00 - 8:05 "When hunters WERE a ranged class"
Hunters are still ranged though
Lmao
But they ARE still ranged??? Wut
Hunters are still ranged.
What changed, is that Survival is now a melee spec.
Scorpid Sting was absolutely vital in raids. You would designate a hunter for Scorpid Sting and another hunter for Viper Sting on literally every boss.
To be fair, when I first started playing a warlock I thought it was supposed to be a melee/spell hybrid which makes a lot of sense in my head. Kinda like a dk but more range oriented I guess. I wish that's how it was T^T would be so cool
disengage original version was actually quite good for leveling. Since most pets didn't have aoe damage if you pulled more than 1 mob and u didnt attack the second you could use the spell to make the mob instantly attack your pet
I dps'd as a Holy Priest in late Vanilla, and I'm proud of it. So... *two* classes for Sanctity Aura :p
...was still bad though...
I was thinking this to. Priests, both Holy and Disc deal holy damage. Though Holy deals purely holy damage and Disc is a mix of holy, shadow, and I think back then they had fire damage to? Even Shadow Priests kicked out a holy spell now and then. So Sanc Aura did two classes.
Actually, taunt was a melee skill too. Mocking blow was an insurance policy if your taunt missed.
The Sancity aura was great if you had a priest in the game. But it was most useful on special private servers that had bigger mana regen etc. So priest did 10% + bonus from talent damage. Also if you used one of the paladin's seal, that added a chance to do holy damage on hit, it increased the damage of it.
Mocking Blow is a huge part of some raid fights in vanilla. Taunt missed a lot if you weren't hit capped.
Glimpse of Instinct and Lacerate didn't even last until BWL
Mocking Blow was very good, but only a fraction of the playerbase knew what to do with it. Taunt could Miss AND be Resisted, so it was common to see tanks use Challenging Shout and Mocking Blow to recover
Ghostly Strike was great for solo play and decent in PvP. SS costed MORE (50 in vanilla to 45 in Wrath) and dealt way less damage.
Did you even play pre Wrath?
Mocking blow was useful for tanks when taunt was resisted, and stance swapping didn't have many consequences since you could keep up to 25 rage with talents
wait. i remember mocking blow. and back then warriors could switch between stances pretty easily if i remember right (i made a macro to go from arms to prot and put a 1-h and shield on to pick up tank just in case something went bad) so it wasnt really useless. and you remember how hard threat was to maintain. idk i didnt hit max level in vanilla. just BC and only for a lil while before wrath dropped. i was a casual. but that ability seems pretty useful.
I miss when shamans had water breathing. You didn't need it very often, but it was a nice quality of life ability and fit the class fantasy really well. I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out why warlocks got to keep it.
I actually remember using Cower as a feral druid during the first Cata tier. Tanking and healing during that tier had completely different styles. I would commonly use Cower off cooldown during the beginning of a boss encounter to avoid pulling aggro (though I would commonly pull aggro anyways).
7:28 Threat reduction is legit as fuck. If you for some reason played a kitty dps, Cower is somewhat useful on some fights. Void Reaver dumps threat on his current target. Hydross has constant threat resets so any type of reduction = a lot of DPS. The issue is that you as a cat are not likely to dish out enough damage for your threat to be relevant.
It was actually pretty fun being a subtank as a rogue with ghostly strike back then with high evasion. I did slightly less dmg for a more safety net utility. I even saved some dungeon groups from a wipe occasionally (thanks to tank not getting out of the "fire"). ;D
Unsure if anyone's actually posted this > Mocking blow was one of the best spells to use as an arms warrior in PvP. It did little damage but was capable of causing a critical hit causing you to enrage and proc deep wounds. Scorpid sting was also used all the time in PvP.. it forced people to use 6% hit rating cap.
And unlike with serpent sting you could still use freezing trap etc.
Mocking Blow was awesome against hunters too, you see hunter's trap animation and tab target pet quickly for Mocking Blow so it will free you from CC.
Scorpid stings first iteration with the agi/str reduction was pretty good on stronger mobs although I have to agree that it was rarely used. Disengage was also pretty good because often when you solo quested and you hit a crit or generated more threat the mobs would go straight for you and the feign death ability costed more mana for essentially the same thing, also it was useful in bad dungeon pulls so that you could preserve your feign death for an eventual wipe.
Sanctity aura was useful for when you have multiple paladins. It increased your threat gen, which along with aoe tanking was protection paladins thing in tbc
I think some of these abilities, especially those that came from vanilla make more sense when you think about how big of a pain in the ass it was to level. I was absolutely in melee range when I was leveling hunters in Vanilla/BC, used counter attack all the time. I can even remember times where I just used melee attackss because I didn't want to wander back to town to buy arrows.
mocking blow, ghostly strike and sanctity aura useless? lol it feels like we haven't been playing the same game man
Are you kidding? Counterstrike was used quite a bit! At least in PvP it did. I ran my Surv Hunter through WSG SO MUCH, and I was able to use CS so many times. I honestly think it was bugged and it procced from dodges too, because it seemed to proc pretty often. Also, Cower was kind of re-worked into Hunter Pets, they use it now to reduce damage.